November 10, 2025 • 47 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier have moved on to London but first they need to assess the win over Scotland through both a glass half full and glass half empty approach.
We investigate what changes could be made for the test against England and also look ahead to Twickenham - is the hosts' 9 game winning streak something to fear?
And we take a look around the rest of the rugby world with a big weekend of matches in the bank.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the middle of Dry Dickney, scot Please boy, try.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
To get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby
Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napiers, powered by News
Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct par By Excess Solutions celebrating twenty
five years in business. My name is Elligott Smith, News
Talks lead rugby commentator with me as always is Liam Napier,
Chief sports writer for The New Zealand Hera. We are
in London and we've left Edinburgh behind, says the All
Blacks head as well, and moved on for week three
(00:58):
of the end of the year tour. But as we reflect,
Liam on the twenty five to seventeen win over Scotland
over the weekend, what were your initial thoughts on that performance.
It's a hard game to break down in many ways,
but we're going to give it a go.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Indeed, it's another Jeko and high performance from the Ablex,
isn't it? And hard to know what to make of them,
what to take out of it. Look, they were really
good for large parts of the first half. Their attack
and the way that they I guess their bravery in
the sense that they were happy to run from deep.
(01:35):
I think that was really notable, probably a big shift
from what we've seen from them this year. They made
big meters out of their twenty two off set piece
you think. I remember one instance quinta pyre carrying felt
like ten to fifteen meters, big sweeping movements. Josh Lord
sets up cam Roy guard Wallace a tt lays on
(01:58):
a try. I thought him and Peter Luckye really took
their chance, largely in the loose forwards, apart from Wallace's
late yellow cards. Up seventeen nil and it's on for
a statement performance. It's going to be going to be easy.
It's all money in the bank from there. And the
All Blacks drop the opening kickoff of the second half
(02:20):
and pretty much shit the bed the cards, discipline. They
are on the rack, out on their feet. They can
see two quick tries to Scotland. Ardie Severe goes off
and all the momentums with Scotland, and I'm thinking at
that point they're going to do this. They are going
to beat the All Blacks for the first time in
one hundred and twenty years. Murrayfield is electric, the crowd
(02:43):
is behind them, and then they get back to fifteen
men and Damien McKenzie comes on. In an eight minute period,
he kicks a fifty twenty two, scores a miraculous try
on the corner that defies physics, and then kicks that
penalty with blood streaming down his face. So look a
captivating contest, very gripping from an All Blacks perspective. I
(03:05):
think there's a lot to work on, a lot to
improve on. But then there is a I guess, a
sense that they are showing an ability to win, the character,
the resolve to defend their line.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, there's a bit of luck there.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yeah, Scotland felt like the Allblcks were there for the
taking and they blew it once again, a very familiar script.
But there is a bit of a depth of character
in the way that the All Blacks are winning these
games late, and that's not something we've seen for them
in previous iterations of this.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Robertson EARI it's not.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And I put the question to Scott Robertson asking about it,
because do you view it as a glass half empty situation,
a game that they were leading seventeen NL and perhaps
could have gone on and you know, one with audue
respect to Scotland, you know, if they score a trift
to halftime, maybe the game gets away from Scotland. They
have to really chase the game at that point. I
(04:00):
opened up more opportunities for the All Blacks that they
could have won by thirty potentially. Or do you viewed
as a glass half fall situation where you had the game,
you know, close to being one dar I say at
a halftime, but you had to really dig deep when
Scotland came back. So we don't I'm not sure we
learned a lot about the All Blacks. Obviously learned they've
got a lot of fight in them, but it's those
worrying switch off periods and games that continue to haunt
(04:22):
them and they have been lucky that it hasn't cost
them in the last couple of Test matches. It's cost
them obviously earlier in the year where they didn't even
switch on against South Africa and Wellington. But they have
switched off and you know against an England team this
week before. Without wanting to throw a head too quickly,
you know that they can't afford a period switch off
(04:43):
like that. Because England are a nine straight winning streak,
they're a very good team, they're a growing team. They'd
take advantage of that, and I don't think that Scotland
necessarily had the confidence or the belief to do so.
If we look back at some of the key moments
in the game, when they went for the shot at
goal when they were three points down, there was almost
a moral victory in a way for the All Blacks. Yes,
it got Scotland up to seventeen all but psychologically going
(05:06):
behind on the scorel board, backing yourself, going into touch
and going for the line out drive and taking the
lead would have been a bigger psychological blow. They had
all them all the momentum and they just as well
Scotland once they got to seventeen, or kind of because
they were no longer chasing the game, they kind of
forgot how to play that style of rugby. They went
(05:27):
back to the box, They went back to keeping it
tight because they were on little peaking and didn't want
to blow things out too much. So I felt that
they went into their shelves a little bit when they
could probably least afford to and that allowed the All
Blacks some of those opportunities to win. A couple of
key moments Peter Luckeye gets over the ball, Damian McKinsey's
fifty twenty two as you pointed out, and then obviously
that McKenzie try and subsequent penalty. So I don't think
(05:49):
Scotland had it mentally to win that game. They may
learn from that because next time, if they get an
opportunity against Sell Blacks, they could go in for the kill.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
A couple of massive defensive plays as well, when the
cam Roy got on Darcy Graham in the corner and
I think Cody Taylor made a big tackle at force
an error.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
And but there were were just.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Blowing opportunities for scott I think Ben White, the halfback,
went through at one point and all he had to
do was reach out.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I didn't know it was that close to the line.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Yeah, So so many instances of what if for Scotland,
particularly with that record and the expectation hanging in the
Murray Fields and that the one hundred year celebration, So
it was all on and then and then it wasn't.
So but you're right, the All Blacks can't afford a
sixty minute periods that they dished up against Islands, or
(06:42):
a half an hour periods that they dished up against
Scotland's three yellow cards playing with fourteen men for half
an hour. This year, the All Blacks have improved the
vastly improved their discipline, but it all came back to
haunt them in that match and Leroy Carter brain snap
for the foot trap that that didn't cost them. I
(07:04):
think they won that period ten seven, no more than that.
They're up seven to eight at halftime seven Now, I
think they won that period, but the two second half
yellow cards really put them on the back foot. The
Arty one, I think, yeah, he's cynically trying to pull
down the mall for me. Scotland score that, So I
(07:25):
don't know whether it's I think it's it's the right call, but.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Legally, yeah, by the LUs of the game it's the
right call. But I kind of think that that's the
that's the reward is the try.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, look, I'm not debating any of the yellow cards.
I think they're the all fair. But yeah, when the
try is scored, I feel like play you should just
move on. Yeah, And so tt he is actively trying
to catch that, but that's how the game's refereed. It's
a yellow card every day of the week. So that
was unfortunate and probably avoidable. So that put a bit
(07:57):
of a dampner on what I thought was a really
strong starting return for him. And then yeah, the All
Blacks are really on the back foot. So three yellow
cards really really costly and they did bloody well to escape.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
In the end they did. And this is a recurring
problem with the All Blacks is that, Yeah, the discipline
has been very good this year, but it comes in
you know, I think you think back to boro Is
where Antelent Brown got yellow carded. It just seems like
there's a few brain snaps waiting, and often it's in
the same game. You know that one brain step seems
(08:33):
to bring two or three, and then they'll have another
game where you know, the card and the discipline is
actually pretty good. So I don't know what the fix is,
but a couple of those cynical and rather unnecessary sort
of penalties sort of touch on a couple of other
things from that game. Whilst the TD and blindside flanker,
(08:53):
did that work for you?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, I think we haven't seen the best of Wallace
this year. We've touched on that.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
And previous podcasts, but I thought that trio combined well.
Luck I have very good again from number eights over
the ball. He made one chopping tackle when Ardie Severe
got a breakdown penalty as well, and so Tis allowing
him to roam the wide channels. I thought he was
(09:22):
very good, very dominant with ball in hand, So I'd
like to see.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
More of that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
One point I'd just like to make about the attack though,
I feel like the All Blacks are relying a lot
on individual brilliance rather than necessarily crafting and creating.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Movements.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
I think about the they were up seventy now at halftime,
but there was a period in that first half five
plus minutes with our attacking Scotland's line, and credit to
Scotland the staunch defense, but it never really felt like
the Alls were going to break them. And I can't
remember a set piece, set play or just their attack
(10:05):
I think still needs a lot of work. I feel
like they're relying on individual to offload or the Josh
Lord try for cam Rouygan. That's not something that's been
created necessarily. It's just one individual pulling off a big
play and I feel like again with McKenzie, you know
that was It's not something that's been set up or crafted,
(10:25):
so that that does worry me a little bit. When
it comes to the Olblacks attack.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well you look at the Scottish way that they were
attacking and it was powerful ball carries and then that
opened up space because they were carrying harder to contact
that or I were to offload on occasion, but they
were just strong, relentless carries and it got them across
the game line. Every time Bilbocks don't seem to get
across the advantage line with their carry often enough, I
don't think. And occasionally you'll get a v as the
(10:51):
TD luck high they can do it, but when they
get into twenty two there's a worrying lack of red
zone and warness like it's and how they convert those opportunities.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
You can, it's in the twenty two it is hard
to harder to construct things because you don't have a
lot of runway right like the lines there. You can
bash away with your forwards, you can try and create
a bit of deception, a bit of depth. You can
put in a crossfield cap, but that generally happens if
you've got a penalty advantage. But yeah, yeah, I just
(11:23):
feel like the All Black's attacks not quite there yet
and it is individual brilliance, whether it be a Satti
or a Quintu Pire. What about the midfield that we
made a lot. I made a lot of Lester's first
start for the All Blacks at center. Personally, I thought
he was exposed on occasions. Defensively, I thought he had
(11:44):
a handling issue, so I was actually pretty underwhelmed by
his performance there.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, it's interesting. I don't think defensively wise he was
on top of his game. I think he missed a
number of tackles. Offensively, I thought he was pretty good,
but didn't have the same impact that he did against
Ireland coming off the bench. Seem interesting to see where
they stuck with him next week against England or with
a moving to the left because of Caleb Clack's injuries.
(12:10):
We'll get to that in a moment or two. But
I don't think it was his best test match in
terms of perhaps what the expectation was, and probably the
All blacksmidfield was probably appointed by sewny two pilotsu in
Hutchinson for Scotland. So do they stick with it this week?
Probably because of Caleb Plaques's injury, they can manipulate it
(12:32):
a little bit. We'll get to that in a moment,
but just on the attacking structure. One of our regular listeners,
Dylan has tweeted it's now be meant to bring this
up for a couple of podcasts now, he said, he
tweeted us last week. The team is building nicely with depth,
attack structure and coaching is still an issue. Any idea
why the Ford runers aren't running onto the ball when
carrying to generate some momentum around the corner. It's very
(12:53):
static and can't play with speed. It goes back to
that previous point around some of that attack and getting
over the game line. Is that either using Ethan de
Grootz and Fletcher Newell as quasi first receivers to try
and open up a little bit of space.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Yeah, Fabian Hooley does it a lot. He's actually got
quite deft hands at the line. Look, I think you
probably need to mix that up a bit. I would
actually like to see them pick and go, just go
through when they look really good, when they are direct,
when they have a bit of front foot momentum, and
Dylan's right, that's it's all very well to use those
(13:30):
forward runners to create that backdoor additional space for your
your playmakers. But if you're doing it all the time,
it becomes highly predictable, and so there needs to be
a bit of variety in what they're doing. And it
could just be instead of going out the back, maybe
go inside to another forward runner, or have a quick
(13:53):
pick and go, or a dummy runner and another forward runner.
Just have a bit of variety, because it does feel
like they always go into that backdoor play and it
does become very predictable.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, it does, and it doesn't allow a build up
of speed. It doesn't generate momentum. I don't think because
you're essentially putting, you're trying to build space, but I
don't think you're building power or speed at the line.
When you do that, you've got to come from a
little bit of a further back start or a standing
start sometimes depending on how the backline is, and often
the bodies aren't in motion. For the all blacks, it's
(14:25):
often you're running at a half step or you're not
running directly into the line, So you've got to build
up a little bit of momentum, whereas we saw Scotland
just that power of their carry and the way that
they were carrying generate momentum and get across the game
line much more adaptable than the All Blacks Worth.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Well, it's just the old out age that you need
to earn the right to go wide. It's very well
to want to go to width and to want to
play with pace, but you need that generally, you need
that front foot momentum to do that.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So a bit of a variety would help.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, Well, thank you Dylan as well for your tweet
as well. We're enjoying the responses to keep those coming
and we'll feedback a feedback through the podcast as well,
and they goes through anyone. If you've got any thoughts
on anything we raise on Rugby Direct field free to
get in touch shot on social media and we about
four years into the podcast, we'll get an email at
some point there's on the to do list. It's in
the works that we are getting to the twenty first
(15:16):
century and getting an email address for Rugby Direct. So
two from two on the Grand Slam Tour yep, so live,
it's live and if you'd said that before you left
New Zealand you would have taken it right.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Look, I think Islands is generally viewed as a fifty
to fifty match, and going to Murrayfield with that occasion,
if you push aside some historical arrogance amongst New Zealand
rugby fans, that was always going to be a huge test.
From where the All Blacks were at halftime, you would
have expected wanted them to kick on.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
But I think before the match I was very nervous.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I thought Scotland were a red hot crack and it
turned out to be that way.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And it was and it was interesting here. We spoke
to Ethan deg Group postgame and he talked about the
atmosphere when it comes to Murrayfield and that if you
haven't experienced playing in those stadiums, like at Twick, like
at Murrayfield, like at the Millennium Stadium, it's very hard
to understand the experience. Even just being there as a fan,
you can get a sense of what it's like for
(16:20):
the All blackstick to go and play in this cauldron
and the noise and the Flower of Scotland starts reverberating
around when they're on the front foot in the second
spell and perhaps I think you said that, you know,
Kiwis tend to just go and sit on the hands
or whatever it was.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It well, we said, New Zealand fans can learn a lot,
could learn a lot from experiencing fandom, true fandom up here.
And it's very true. We were very conservative and how
we support teams. We sit there and we analyze and
we analyze rather than support, we enjoy the spectacle. But yeah,
generally there's not a lot of enthusiasm and passion outwardly,
(16:54):
at least where man, it felt like you were carried
to another stratosphere at times when Scotland were on the
front foot at Murrayfield, it really was magic occasion.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
It certainly was. So let's look ahead through England this
weekend and they had a good win over Fiji over
the weekend. But from an All Blacks perspective, they're gonna
have to make some changes. Caleb Clark has been ruled out.
Scott Barrett is a possibility of returning this week. Let's
start with the back line first. Where would you look
(17:26):
to go? Would you keep leicsterfying a look on them midfield?
Would you just go wing for wing replacement for Caleb Clark.
What are you thinking?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Well, first of all, they have a number of options,
don't they.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I think they will go Leicester to the wing to
replace Caleb Clark and bring Billy Proctor in to center.
And the reason for that is Razor has generally throughout
his coaching career the Crusaders the All Blacks favored at
least one power wing, and I think if the alternative
(18:03):
is to go McKenzie to fall back and play Carter
and Jordan on the wings, I think, yes, Riquewanne and
Sevice and Reuben Love are all options, but I think
that's the way they'll go because I think if you
play McKenzie, Jordan and Carter, it's a very short and
(18:24):
lightweight back three. Lester's spent two years in France playing midfield,
so wings not his specialty. But I think whatever happens
that All Blacks back three is going to be targeted
under the high ball, and I think you can still
involve him from the edge. I think Billy's best asset
is a defense. Hasn't necessarily shown that for the All Blacks,
(18:48):
but I think they still have a lot of faith
in them and that's why he was on the bench
last week, so I think that's the way they will go.
Caleb Clarke is a massive loss. Though he's come back
played really well. He has been damaging with his ball carrying.
He's been largely good in the year. But I do
worry about the the ragin of high balls that's going
(19:12):
to come for the All Blacks this weekend because it's
still an issue.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
It's still going. Yeah, that's Scott on Game of the weekend,
Will Jordan battling under the high ball. There was other knockins, look,
I think.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
And without Jordi Barrett. Jordi Barrett was a massive asset
that they were using to cover that backfield. So he's
a big loss in that regard.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
To he is. And I don't know, it's probably the
one thing stopping Will Jordan from being, you know, perhaps
the best fullback in the world at the moment, is
that the fact that he is just battling to take
those high balls. And whether it's a matter of super
rugby not aerially attacking that way or whatever it might be,
the All Blacks need to know what's coming this weekend.
(19:51):
And so looking at that back three, I would probably
agree with you and go Lester on the left wing
and retain Will Jordan at fullback Leroy Carter on the
right wing, regardless of his brain snap on the weekend. Midfield, though,
I would probably say I probably look to go to
(20:11):
Rico Yuani at center. Billy Proctor. I think the jury
is still out big time. This is a massive test
with the All Blacks. Rico Yuanni, you know, move was
moved away from midfield at the start of the year.
Billy Proctor was tagged as the guy. I think Rica
is a better defensive center than Billy Procter. I think
for this test match of horses for courses approach, I
would put Rico Yuanni in the center.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah, okay, oh that's fair.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I don't think Rico's Ricos played wing all year for
the All Blacks, so person I can't see them going
back that way.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
But I think you're right.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
For all the criticism around Rico's performances at center, defensively
he was really good.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
There's no doubt attacking wise that there were massive questions
over it. But I think for this test match, where
I think defense is going to be what was demanded
of this All Blacks team, that's the way i'd go
this week.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, I think they'll go Proctor and Rico on the bench.
I can't say Proctor starting raccoons the bench.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah, I can't see them what Sevaresa or Reuben Lover
can't I don't really Or Antonine A. Brown, I don't
really feel like they're on the conversation based on the
way Razers selected this team in recent weeks.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I don't think so. I mean, you could build the
argument for a Ruben Love if Damie McKenzie were to
come into the starting team, but I just don't see that.
And I think everyone's going on with Dame McKenzie great
off the bench now deserves a chance to start. We
still can't get it through our heads. People. The bench
is vitally important in test matches, and it's not a case,
(21:40):
I don't think anymore of playing well on the bench.
You earn a chance to start playing well on the bench.
That's not a war. To start playing well on the
bench is a basically a sign the bench is working
and you're turning the game. That's what you want out
of the bench, and that's the warrior I had by
moving Wallace a TD into the run on side is
that you're overvaluing the first fifty minutes compared to the
(22:01):
last thirty. And I get there's more time in the
first fifty, could be the last thirty, but those last
thirty I saw vital in a Test match and it's
where it's decided. And we saw the All Blacks come
home in the last twenty in Chicago and again probably
the last ten, but we didn't get the impact out
of the All Blacks bench bar McKenzie. You know Deepycreef,
he came on for eight minutes at the end of
the game. Billy Procter was fearly anonymous when he came on.
(22:24):
Of course he's right, and didn't even get on.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
So I think the front rowers are performing really well.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Pasilio, Tossi Summersony Takyaho and Mighty Williams. Massive impact from
those guys are really delivering yep.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
So the front row yep. And McKenzie absolute tick. But
I think you keep McKenzie in the benchroll because that's
what you want him running at tied defenses in the
last thirty minutes of the game.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
I think Look, Damien's played his best rugby for the
All Blacks certainly this year at full back, and I
think he probably does deserve a start, but yeah, bringing
him on the last twenty half an hour as he's
the best bench assets from a back's perspective and world
rugby right now, so I think I think you leave
(23:13):
him there. Look, I think Scott Barrett plays and that's
a big end for the All Blacks because one of
the big concerns I have this week is how much
gas do the All Blacks have in the tank playing
for half an hour with fourteen men. I can vividly
picture them now, hands on hips, out on their feet
at various times in that Scottish match. I think that
(23:34):
will take a lot out of them. This is their
third big test in a row. England are a big
physical pack, so I do have concerns from a fatigue perspective.
So Scott Barrett coming into the Type five pushing Josh
load to the bench, I think that's vital. So two
questions for you, do you have concerns from a fatigue
(23:56):
point of view? And with Scott Barrett coming in, what
do you do with Simon Parker? So he was dropped
essentially last week loss of TT with dup c Carifi
coming on the bench. Are they holding him back for
this England Test.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I don't think it's worth giving up on Simon Parker
just yet. I'm not saying they have given up on
Simon Parker. They made that change for the weekend. I
think after a pretty good start in his career, he's
maybe tailed off a little bit, but defensively wise he
is good and I think you need that body this week,
just targeting anything that moves from the English pack.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
So you're starting him.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I'm starting. I'm starting sign Parker this week and putting
it and again going back to my bench point putting
Wallace a TD on the bench.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Okay, I'm leaving the tt out there because I want
him to play fifty sixty minutes. I was really impressed
by what he did in the first half and I
think back to last year I took in him. He
put the world right beyond notice with a phenomenal performance.
So I want the most out of the tt A.
From a minute's point of view, I think there's an
(25:02):
argument to bring Simon Parker potentially onto the bench. I
haven't seen a lot of impact out of careffee he's
there to come on and get you a game changing
turnover or target the breakdown. But England are a massive
physical pack and I really think he might struggle with
that record.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I could see the argument with Scotland. The way that
they traditionally attack leaves open more opportunities for breakdown turn
nerves now didn't really happen in that regard because of
the way the game had flowed to that point and
where the All Blacks were when Karifer came on and
what the seventy second minutes. So hard to judge on
that regard, but I don't think this is the test
match for Plus Cafe.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
No, I agree.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Worth noting Luke Jacobson, who hasn't played for the All
Blacks all year, is also out with concussion after taking
a head knock for the All Blacks fifteen.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Just on that question of fatigue, Cam roy Guard has
now played seventy eight minutes in Chicago in eighty minutes
at Murrayfield.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
That worries me less than some of the full pack
because he hasn't played a lot this year and he's
consistently the fittest.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, he's very very fair.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
That the Yo Yosi was, if not top pushing Boden
Barrett for the record score. So yeah, big minutes, but
he's been out a lot this year as well.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
But what does it say about their faith in Courtiz
Ratam and now not saying you, I admire the fact
that they kept can Roy guard out there against Silent
and again against Swotland. I think he is by far
the best half back in New Zealand and certainly in
the conversation for top two or three in the world
at the moment. But what does it say about Courtiers
Ratsima that they traditionally have always gone for and again
(26:43):
throwing not throwing away Test caps but bringing on players
for the sake of it. I don't like, but you've
traditionally gone for that change up half back with fifteen
to twenty minutes to go. Can Roy Guards playing excellent
rugby at the moment, But what does it say that
they're perhaps not wanting to bring on Ratsima and changing
the pace of the game or the direction of the
game at that point.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, I think it says two things.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
It says can royguards and another straightest fear to to
any other hard half back in that all black squad currently,
you know, Finlay Christie and Cortes lastm just aren't within
touching distance of him regards scored twelve tries since making
his debut in July twenty twenty three, more than any
other half back in men's international rugby in that period.
(27:27):
Neil Black's also when he plays. When he's in the
twenty three have won over ninety percent of their tests
under Razor, and I think otherwise they might be at
late seventies. So his influence on that team, for me,
is greater than anyone else. So I'm happy that they're
playing in eighty minutes.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
But you're but you're right.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
It does say that nobody's within touching distance. And look,
I think that may change if Noah Hotham was in
the squad but casting further ahead, if you could go
Dylan Pledger, he could come on and further up the tempo.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
But that's probably at least a year away.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Really, I think from the sort of scenario, Roy Guard
is just such a lethal west set.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
If you can play eighty minutes, then why not keep
him out there?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Here's a take for you twenty eight minutes into the podcast.
Should I say this a lot? I'm gonna say it.
Could you move can roy This is not a this
weekend discussion, but if he's going to get an eighty
minute half back, could you keep him out on the
park and bring on a Dylan Pledge Noah Hotham type
and move a roy Guard into say a ten position
(28:36):
or even on the wing lace in a test match
if he's still having an influence on the game. But
you do want that dynamic, quick reception out of half back,
but Royga can still have an influence. Is there a way?
And again people are going, what the fuck is this
guy talking about? But could you have them both out
on the park at the moment?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I was workshopping this take with our friend Louis Herman
Watt earlier today.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Look if needs must and you lose a number of backs,
I think he could potentially yeah, cover wing, But I
thank you there's this specialist for a reason. Yeah, and
I don't thinks played. He might have played a bit
of ten for the Canes at one point, but.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, I think it was Isaac Boss whould work with
him at counties level on this A year or so on.
Sky City believes that Ruga could play ten ye just
an idea.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
He probably could, but not for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Okay, I will take quick break here on Rugby Direct.
Come back with the thoughts on the other games that
went around the rugby stratosphere over the weekend.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Try ten sixty every tackle, Get up again before I'm
not It's Rugby Direct. Go back with Rugby Direct. Fe
more thoughts on where the All Blacks and England might
go in a moment or two. But let's go around
the other games that occurred during the weekend. We don't
(30:11):
want to start. France South Africa was probably the banner
game of the weekend. Rematch that quarterfinal from twenty twenty three,
and South Africa, despite being reduced to fourteen men for
just over forty minutes, were too good for France. It
started to France. That is a big win for South
Africa Circleise's one hundredth There was all sorts of motion
around that were reduced to fourteen men with lud Diyaga
(30:35):
being sent off. If that was the battle for the
world number one team, well, South Africa win by absolute knockout.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
That's another absolute statement performance isn't it. France and Paris
is an incredibly tough game to win. The all Blacks
have found out out that outs this time last year.
And yeah, going down to a straight red card, which
you don't see very often, just on that thoughts on
the decision it.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Was a red card. I felt a little bit sorry
for lud Diyaga to an extent because I did think
there was the sign of a rap motion, but it
was probably not enough to save them from the red card.
But I didn't think the process and again this is
going back to my old favorite around the product versus
the decision. And so basically the foul play review officer,
(31:24):
once the decision is communicated to them, can only decide
on a yellow card or a twenty minute red card.
So Angus Gardener had to be the sole arbiter of
whether this was a full red card or not with
his assistance and the TEMO. I don't know why that's
a rule. Surely the foul payer review officer should have
all three punishments available to them yellow card, twenty minute
red card and a full red card, because on two
(31:46):
or three looks it had been clearly looked like it
was with the off field review. Great, that's what the
off field reviews for. I don't know why the foul
play review officer, who have seven or eight minutes to
look at all those angles, can't decide whether it's a
full redcard or not. That seems like a necessary hamstring
the process. So it was on angers Garden to make
(32:08):
that it was a full real I don't get why
that's the case, but I don't think lou diug has
probably got too much to complain about.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
No, I think it was justified.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Look, there was potential mitigation in the fact that there
was a big dip, but it's clear shoulders to the
head and there is no real wrapping motion, so he
left himself open to the officials.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And look, in the end it didn't cost South Africa.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
They came over the top of France, Sasha scoring a
late try and South Africa kicking clear.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
So quite a bad loss at home for France. Really
they didn't have DuPont, but.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
There's no real excuses otherwise, and it's their fourth loss
in a row and the last time they lost five
was twenty eighteen. That's from Russ Petty, the statistician in
the UK. That is a bit skewed because they sent
a second string team out to New Zealand in July. Look,
I still feel like France have massive strength and depth
(33:11):
and they are absolute superpower. But I think it is
a real punch in the face for them to lose
like that, having the one man advantage for so long.
I thought the handling was poor. They didn't really take
their opportunities. They can be quite erratic still, so it's
a bad loss.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
At home can leads to one man band.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Look, there's no doubt Anton DuPont is their talesman, and yeah,
they probably have become overly reliant on him in recent years.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, I think I'd have been concerns about France and
they are a quality team. They're very, very hard to
play at home. But we saw what happened to them
in the World Cup at home, where they obviously lost
to South Africa and been kind of melted down a
little bit as a result of that loss, but also
just perhaps the home weight of expectation as well didn't
(34:07):
sit well with them. They started strongly against the All Blacks,
of course, but didn't quite work out from the home
World Cup. There's something interesting about the French that if
you're not traveling down to New Zealand for test series
like this, and I get why they didn't send a
full strength team, but at some point you're going to
have to spend seven eight weeks if you want to
win a World Cup in Australia with your teammates on
(34:28):
the road. And I just don't know that they have
that cohesiveness because of their approach to traveling to the
Southern Hemisphere that when it comes to the crunch, it's,
you know, one thing, spending four weeks at a time
with them in your own beds and then playing the
Six Nations and going around Europe. But going to a
World Cup when you've got, you know, to travel a
(34:49):
foreign country and you know, spend seven eight weeks with
your teammates, that is an entirely different thing. And that's
where I'm not sure that the French quite get it.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
I think they are both propelled and hamstrung by the
strength of the domestic game. And the top fourteen is
a fantastic act. It's it's they have amazing depth, but
it's hamstring strings them in that July window. And when
(35:19):
your top team is not playing together very or often enough,
that really affects your cohesiveness and your ability to build
combinations and all those things travel to different destinations. Playing
abroad really matters. You think about the All Blacks coming
up here and you know players gaining the experience of
playing at Murrayfield and twicking them. It's a it's a
(35:40):
world away from playing in New Zealand's and a similar
sort of scenario for the French. So I think not
playing together in July while they're building depth and all
those sorts of things, that doesn't help their top team
gel and I think that's probably been born out a
little bit in that result of the weekend.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Let's talk Australia at ithly great for my Did I
say this on the podcast or that I can see
libiting you might have? Yeah they did.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah it was dog on Australia. They cost me my
Southern sweep. I didn't have Fiji in there, but yeah,
look that's a it's not a shock, but it's a
result that should rattle Australian rugby and they really stunted
and maybe hit the wall after a long hair.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Think after Alice Park and a lot of the talk
that you know they came from twenty two Nel down
the Wallabies a back the Lions series, yep, absolutely, which
they could have won, and then it has just spun
out of control big time.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
And I think they've won five from thirteen now this year.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, and if it wasn't for that scrappy win over
Japan and Tokyo a few weeks back, they'd be on
a seven game losing streak. Essentially, Potentially if they look
at the end of the year with Ireland and France
to hate, they could come out and beat Ireland. Who knows.
But and I see this morning that got Will Skelton
and James O'Connor have joined them in Dublin. So the
(37:03):
Cavalry's come in a little bit.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
But that's half their problem though, isn't it. Yeah, they're
not there all the time. And yeah, I do question
Schmidt's sticking with I know he started Carter Gordon and
that match, but sticking with Tane Edmonds first five remains
an issue. And also saw Joe Schmitt come out afterwards
and say, look, stick with us, we're doing our best.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Keep the faith. But I think if you're an Australian.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Rugby furious coach, if you're Australian rugby fan, it's skin
it to that that tether point again, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
What it is? And if there was a gimme test
in the next couple of weeks that you go, maybe
Lee was the gimme test. And they've now blown that.
And they've got France team who have now been stung
by losing to stay I forget to finished the year.
They've got Ireland this week, who are very very good
at the Aviva. Yeah, it feels like spinning out of control.
(37:57):
And you know, Joe Schmitt hands the reins over mid
next year to Le's kiss. But it's interesting. I saw
our friend Christy Dorian do a piece of the raw
around Joe Schmitt's legacy. So two tests to save the
legacy here for Joe Schmitt. And it does feel a
little bit like that.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yep, it does. Look he was startings from such a
low EBB. Yeah, Joe schmittt.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Promise he's gonna he could finish at a low eb
and you forget about those highs in the middle. Yeah,
you do.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Look, I thought he's done a lot of good things,
but results matter, don't they. And we're, like you said,
it's starting to spiral now and it's been a huge
year for the Wallabies and I think that's starting to tell.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It is Wales beating Argentina. Steve tandy first game as coach,
Argentina's biggest win over Wales. But to work on I
mean there were some positives there that they could put
on what twenty eight points in the end, not so
positive that Jack Morgan, who's by far their best player,
is now out for the rest of the year.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
It's a big blow.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
They have Japan this week, they have the All Blacks
next week, they have South Africa the following week, so
they've still got, you know, some big test matches to
come and with an eye to the World cut seedings
that's shrawn on December third. This Wales Japan game actually
takes on a lot of significance this week in so
(39:22):
they could get down to that third band of memory
serves right if they lose this weekend.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, I saw.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
I think it was Rugby passed at a piece, basically
saying that it's incredibly hard. Now after the Wallabies loss,
I think Scotland have the best chance of breaking into
the top six, which gives you a favorable World Cup draw,
but it is very unlikely that the top six is
going to change.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah, lock Whale was there in a world it hurts.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
They are looking at cutting at least one domestic professional
team and look, I think Steve Tandy, you've got to
give him time.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
He was defensive coach with Scotland's and so it's not
a three week job.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
No, he won't be happy with that of conceding for
to your points, but he's not going to turn that
around overnights. He's making all the right noises. But so
Wales have now considered the most and second most first
half points at home and their last two matches they
are thirty three via England and thirty one va Argentina.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
So like it's an up pearl battle, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
It really is. Before we go on Rugby Direct, let's
circle back to the All Blacks and England on Sunday
morning for a m England. I think a possibility to
name the team early. They might do it on Tuesday.
Haven't heard an update on that front as yet, but
they are on a nine match winning streak and they're
putting together some solid performances. That Fiji game, they were
(40:50):
you know, at the balance for a little bit but
managed to kick clear and put forty on them. In
the ends, they hung tough against a poor Australian side.
Didn't have to hang cats up, but they just knew
that they they wore them down, they were going to
get the win. There's some positive signs building in this
England team, but there will be a test for them
for the All Blacks this weekend.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
Well, let's first of all assess where they are at
and unpack that that nine match winning run. There's no
doubt they're building confidence and belief and at Twickenham it's
always been a bit of a fortress.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Seal Blacks have a pretty good record there.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
I don't know off the top of my head, but
they obviously won their last year in a very dramatic match.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I think it was twenty four twenty two down by Aden,
came back to one here.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
That was a Mark Tala try in the corner, Damien
McKenzie clutch conversion and George Ford misses a potentially match
winning drop goal. So, first of all, on the England records,
how good is this nine match winning run. I think
their most notable scalp in that is France. I think
their last loss was maybe the first round to Islands
(41:55):
of the six nations in Dublin.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
So what do you make of that streak?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
First and foremost, you don't win nine games by excellent
against anyone. Um, I think that's generally true. And they
beat France by one point to Twickenham. They beat Scotland
by one point at Twickenham. But as from South Africa
the last World Cup, three wins in a row, even
by one point will get new places, and then Italy
(42:20):
and Wales after that, two pretty good and straightforward wins
for them. There's a couple of games in there where
we go weekend Argentine, the team who I don't think
had their full strength side of memory serves for some
of those games. Mind you needed did England, so hard
to know whether that even constitutes a test match when
(42:40):
you've got all your best players playing for the Lions.
They had the USA I think in there as well,
and then those last couple of weeks, so again you
don't win nine games by accident. They're a very very
good team. I think they've still got a little bit
to prove where they sit in World rugby, but I
think to be honest, they're in a pretty good spot
two years out from a World Cup. I don't know
if they're quite there as yet. This test will be
(43:03):
a very very interesting marker as to where they sit.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
I I don't know about you, but I always felt
this would be the greatest threat to the All Blacks
Grand Slam Tour. They're chasing their first Grand Slam in
fifteen years, and it always felt like England's loomed on
the horizon, you know. And there's history here, recent history
as well, because not only that game last night November,
(43:29):
Bill Black's played in England's played three times last year.
I think England came down to New Zealand twice in
July probably should have been Neil Blacks and raised his
first game in charge in Dunedin when Marcus Smith missed
a couple off the tea from memory, and then they
went pretty close at Eden Park when Boden Barrack came
off the bench to turn that game late. So there'll
(43:50):
be a sense of unfinished business for England, a sense
of revenge that they'll want. They'll be right up for this,
and yeah, they built some confidence and belief. I think
last week they made some changes.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
They went to.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Finn Smith at ten and Marcus Smith at fullback, so
more hacking endeavor. But I think they will revert to
their DNA revert to type this week, go back to
George Ford at number ten and I Freddy Stewart's will
probably come in at fullback. Alex Mitchell will kick all
day from the base. Do you expect anything out of
the box from ingend or will it be classic not
(44:28):
ten man rugby, but they'll look to go to their
set piece and squeeze and kick.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I would love to see them play out of the box.
I think it's when they're at their best, actually, when
they challenge the All Blacks as they think back to
that game they won in twenty twelve where they did
play attacking rugby and took the All Blacks attired All Blacks,
but All Blacks on at their own game, the game
in twenty twenty two where they came back from what
was at twenty five six down to draw the game.
(44:54):
They were chasing it, but it forced them to play
a little bit of attack. I get why they play
like they do, but sometimes I think they're actually more
efficient against the All Blacks in terms of that head
to head matchup when they do take the All Blacks
on at their own game. You know, you saw Scotland
get a lot of pay at the strong direct carries. Now, yes,
maybe England will do that anyway, but Scottland also found
(45:17):
space on the edge. By doing that. With that strong carries,
they're able to suck the defense in the middle of
park open up space on either edge. So they've got
some fine wingers as well, Tommy Freeman and Manuel fey Woboso.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yeah, he's a real weapon.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
So but they're a really really good team. And as
I said, I like where they're sitting two years out
from World Cup. Henry Arundel. There's another strong player in
that back line who may get a start this week.
Potentially interesting to see what Steve Borthwick does.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
But Chanlo Cunning himself Yep, damaging bull career, the Kiwi
born loose Ford.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's right, and so I really like the way that
they are positioned with the night of the World Cup.
So it's just gonna be interesting to see what they
do at ten this week. Do they go back to
George Ford?
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Yeah, he was their man against the Wallabies two weeks ago,
and I don't think Finn Smith really took his chance
against Fiji. He's performed really well for Northampton, but I
don't think he really suits the style that Borthwick likes
to play. Look, I think England can play a multitude
(46:19):
of ways, but first and foremost they will go back
to that Maro ToJ massive presence as well lead the
Lions tour, and not only from a line out perspective,
but he is an absolute menace at the breakdown, so
the Blacks need to get that right.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Very impressed as well by Fraser Dingal, who's only played
I think five sixtiest potentially like the look of him
at second five as well. So it's very very good team.
It's hard to too many weaknesses in that England side,
but what we have seen is occasionally they get to
a point we think they're on the rise and then
(46:57):
the full comes. So again, oh, this is.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
The big reveal for both teams, isn't it. Yeah, it's
quite hard to get a real gauge on where the
All Blacks are at and where England are at, and
I think this week it's one of the greatest rugby venues.
It will be another huge occasion we will find out.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, flew over that last night as a coming in.
It's like they had the heaters on the surface and
everything like that. It's like, yeah, this is a Aliard stadium.
Nothing better.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Yeah, no, no, no, pound Spirit No, Absolutely very much.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Looking forward to it. We'll be back with another podcast
once the teams are revealed later in the week, probably
Friday morning at New Zealand time, but on Behalf Lars
and Bars englishly in Napier and Xy Solutions celebrating twenty
five years in business. Elliott Smith pushing you a very
good week.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
For more from News Talks b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the middle of Dry Dickney, scot Please boy, try.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
To get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby
Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napiers, powered by News
Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct par By Excess Solutions celebrating twenty
five years in business. My name is Elligott Smith, News
Talks lead rugby commentator with me as always is Liam Napier,
Chief sports writer for The New Zealand Hera. We are
in London and we've left Edinburgh behind, says the All
Blacks head as well, and moved on for week three
(00:58):
of the end of the year tour. But as we reflect,
Liam on the twenty five to seventeen win over Scotland
over the weekend, what were your initial thoughts on that performance.
It's a hard game to break down in many ways,
but we're going to give it a go.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Indeed, it's another Jeko and high performance from the Ablex,
isn't it? And hard to know what to make of them,
what to take out of it. Look, they were really
good for large parts of the first half. Their attack
and the way that they I guess their bravery in
the sense that they were happy to run from deep.
(01:35):
I think that was really notable, probably a big shift
from what we've seen from them this year. They made
big meters out of their twenty two off set piece
you think. I remember one instance quinta pyre carrying felt
like ten to fifteen meters, big sweeping movements. Josh Lord
sets up cam Roy guard Wallace a tt lays on
(01:58):
a try. I thought him and Peter Luckye really took
their chance, largely in the loose forwards, apart from Wallace's
late yellow cards. Up seventeen nil and it's on for
a statement performance. It's going to be going to be easy.
It's all money in the bank from there. And the
All Blacks drop the opening kickoff of the second half
(02:20):
and pretty much shit the bed the cards, discipline. They
are on the rack, out on their feet. They can
see two quick tries to Scotland. Ardie Severe goes off
and all the momentums with Scotland, and I'm thinking at
that point they're going to do this. They are going
to beat the All Blacks for the first time in
one hundred and twenty years. Murrayfield is electric, the crowd
(02:43):
is behind them, and then they get back to fifteen
men and Damien McKenzie comes on. In an eight minute period,
he kicks a fifty twenty two, scores a miraculous try
on the corner that defies physics, and then kicks that
penalty with blood streaming down his face. So look a
captivating contest, very gripping from an All Blacks perspective. I
(03:05):
think there's a lot to work on, a lot to
improve on. But then there is a I guess, a
sense that they are showing an ability to win, the character,
the resolve to defend their line.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, there's a bit of luck there.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yeah, Scotland felt like the Allblcks were there for the
taking and they blew it once again, a very familiar script.
But there is a bit of a depth of character
in the way that the All Blacks are winning these
games late, and that's not something we've seen for them
in previous iterations of this.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Robertson EARI it's not.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And I put the question to Scott Robertson asking about it,
because do you view it as a glass half empty situation,
a game that they were leading seventeen NL and perhaps
could have gone on and you know, one with audue
respect to Scotland, you know, if they score a trift
to halftime, maybe the game gets away from Scotland. They
have to really chase the game at that point. I
(04:00):
opened up more opportunities for the All Blacks that they
could have won by thirty potentially. Or do you viewed
as a glass half fall situation where you had the game,
you know, close to being one dar I say at
a halftime, but you had to really dig deep when
Scotland came back. So we don't I'm not sure we
learned a lot about the All Blacks. Obviously learned they've
got a lot of fight in them, but it's those
worrying switch off periods and games that continue to haunt
(04:22):
them and they have been lucky that it hasn't cost
them in the last couple of Test matches. It's cost
them obviously earlier in the year where they didn't even
switch on against South Africa and Wellington. But they have
switched off and you know against an England team this
week before. Without wanting to throw a head too quickly,
you know that they can't afford a period switch off
(04:43):
like that. Because England are a nine straight winning streak,
they're a very good team, they're a growing team. They'd
take advantage of that, and I don't think that Scotland
necessarily had the confidence or the belief to do so.
If we look back at some of the key moments
in the game, when they went for the shot at
goal when they were three points down, there was almost
a moral victory in a way for the All Blacks. Yes,
it got Scotland up to seventeen all but psychologically going
(05:06):
behind on the scorel board, backing yourself, going into touch
and going for the line out drive and taking the
lead would have been a bigger psychological blow. They had
all them all the momentum and they just as well
Scotland once they got to seventeen, or kind of because
they were no longer chasing the game, they kind of
forgot how to play that style of rugby. They went
(05:27):
back to the box, They went back to keeping it
tight because they were on little peaking and didn't want
to blow things out too much. So I felt that
they went into their shelves a little bit when they
could probably least afford to and that allowed the All
Blacks some of those opportunities to win. A couple of
key moments Peter Luckeye gets over the ball, Damian McKinsey's
fifty twenty two as you pointed out, and then obviously
that McKenzie try and subsequent penalty. So I don't think
(05:49):
Scotland had it mentally to win that game. They may
learn from that because next time, if they get an
opportunity against Sell Blacks, they could go in for the kill.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
A couple of massive defensive plays as well, when the
cam Roy got on Darcy Graham in the corner and
I think Cody Taylor made a big tackle at force
an error.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
And but there were were just.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Blowing opportunities for scott I think Ben White, the halfback,
went through at one point and all he had to
do was reach out.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I didn't know it was that close to the line.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Yeah, So so many instances of what if for Scotland,
particularly with that record and the expectation hanging in the
Murray Fields and that the one hundred year celebration, So
it was all on and then and then it wasn't.
So but you're right, the All Blacks can't afford a
sixty minute periods that they dished up against Islands, or
(06:42):
a half an hour periods that they dished up against
Scotland's three yellow cards playing with fourteen men for half
an hour. This year, the All Blacks have improved the
vastly improved their discipline, but it all came back to
haunt them in that match and Leroy Carter brain snap
for the foot trap that that didn't cost them. I
(07:04):
think they won that period ten seven, no more than that.
They're up seven to eight at halftime seven Now, I
think they won that period, but the two second half
yellow cards really put them on the back foot. The
Arty one, I think, yeah, he's cynically trying to pull
down the mall for me. Scotland score that, So I
(07:25):
don't know whether it's I think it's it's the right call, but.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Legally, yeah, by the LUs of the game it's the
right call. But I kind of think that that's the
that's the reward is the try.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, look, I'm not debating any of the yellow cards.
I think they're the all fair. But yeah, when the
try is scored, I feel like play you should just
move on. Yeah, And so tt he is actively trying
to catch that, but that's how the game's refereed. It's
a yellow card every day of the week. So that
was unfortunate and probably avoidable. So that put a bit
(07:57):
of a dampner on what I thought was a really
strong starting return for him. And then yeah, the All
Blacks are really on the back foot. So three yellow
cards really really costly and they did bloody well to escape.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
In the end they did. And this is a recurring
problem with the All Blacks is that, Yeah, the discipline
has been very good this year, but it comes in
you know, I think you think back to boro Is
where Antelent Brown got yellow carded. It just seems like
there's a few brain snaps waiting, and often it's in
the same game. You know that one brain step seems
(08:33):
to bring two or three, and then they'll have another
game where you know, the card and the discipline is
actually pretty good. So I don't know what the fix is,
but a couple of those cynical and rather unnecessary sort
of penalties sort of touch on a couple of other
things from that game. Whilst the TD and blindside flanker,
(08:53):
did that work for you?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, I think we haven't seen the best of Wallace
this year. We've touched on that.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
And previous podcasts, but I thought that trio combined well.
Luck I have very good again from number eights over
the ball. He made one chopping tackle when Ardie Severe
got a breakdown penalty as well, and so Tis allowing
him to roam the wide channels. I thought he was
(09:22):
very good, very dominant with ball in hand, So I'd
like to see.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
More of that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
One point I'd just like to make about the attack though,
I feel like the All Blacks are relying a lot
on individual brilliance rather than necessarily crafting and creating.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Movements.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
I think about the they were up seventy now at halftime,
but there was a period in that first half five
plus minutes with our attacking Scotland's line, and credit to
Scotland the staunch defense, but it never really felt like
the Alls were going to break them. And I can't
remember a set piece, set play or just their attack
(10:05):
I think still needs a lot of work. I feel
like they're relying on individual to offload or the Josh
Lord try for cam Rouygan. That's not something that's been
created necessarily. It's just one individual pulling off a big
play and I feel like again with McKenzie, you know
that was It's not something that's been set up or crafted,
(10:25):
so that that does worry me a little bit. When
it comes to the Olblacks attack.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well you look at the Scottish way that they were
attacking and it was powerful ball carries and then that
opened up space because they were carrying harder to contact
that or I were to offload on occasion, but they
were just strong, relentless carries and it got them across
the game line. Every time Bilbocks don't seem to get
across the advantage line with their carry often enough, I
don't think. And occasionally you'll get a v as the
(10:51):
TD luck high they can do it, but when they
get into twenty two there's a worrying lack of red
zone and warness like it's and how they convert those opportunities.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
You can, it's in the twenty two it is hard
to harder to construct things because you don't have a
lot of runway right like the lines there. You can
bash away with your forwards, you can try and create
a bit of deception, a bit of depth. You can
put in a crossfield cap, but that generally happens if
you've got a penalty advantage. But yeah, yeah, I just
(11:23):
feel like the All Black's attacks not quite there yet
and it is individual brilliance, whether it be a Satti
or a Quintu Pire. What about the midfield that we
made a lot. I made a lot of Lester's first
start for the All Blacks at center. Personally, I thought
he was exposed on occasions. Defensively, I thought he had
(11:44):
a handling issue, so I was actually pretty underwhelmed by
his performance there.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, it's interesting. I don't think defensively wise he was
on top of his game. I think he missed a
number of tackles. Offensively, I thought he was pretty good,
but didn't have the same impact that he did against
Ireland coming off the bench. Seem interesting to see where
they stuck with him next week against England or with
a moving to the left because of Caleb Clack's injuries.
(12:10):
We'll get to that in a moment or two. But
I don't think it was his best test match in
terms of perhaps what the expectation was, and probably the
All blacksmidfield was probably appointed by sewny two pilotsu in
Hutchinson for Scotland. So do they stick with it this week?
Probably because of Caleb Plaques's injury, they can manipulate it
(12:32):
a little bit. We'll get to that in a moment,
but just on the attacking structure. One of our regular listeners,
Dylan has tweeted it's now be meant to bring this
up for a couple of podcasts now, he said, he
tweeted us last week. The team is building nicely with depth,
attack structure and coaching is still an issue. Any idea
why the Ford runers aren't running onto the ball when
carrying to generate some momentum around the corner. It's very
(12:53):
static and can't play with speed. It goes back to
that previous point around some of that attack and getting
over the game line. Is that either using Ethan de
Grootz and Fletcher Newell as quasi first receivers to try
and open up a little bit of space.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Yeah, Fabian Hooley does it a lot. He's actually got
quite deft hands at the line. Look, I think you
probably need to mix that up a bit. I would
actually like to see them pick and go, just go
through when they look really good, when they are direct,
when they have a bit of front foot momentum, and
Dylan's right, that's it's all very well to use those
(13:30):
forward runners to create that backdoor additional space for your
your playmakers. But if you're doing it all the time,
it becomes highly predictable, and so there needs to be
a bit of variety in what they're doing. And it
could just be instead of going out the back, maybe
go inside to another forward runner, or have a quick
(13:53):
pick and go, or a dummy runner and another forward runner.
Just have a bit of variety, because it does feel
like they always go into that backdoor play and it
does become very predictable.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, it does, and it doesn't allow a build up
of speed. It doesn't generate momentum. I don't think because
you're essentially putting, you're trying to build space, but I
don't think you're building power or speed at the line.
When you do that, you've got to come from a
little bit of a further back start or a standing
start sometimes depending on how the backline is, and often
the bodies aren't in motion. For the all blacks, it's
(14:25):
often you're running at a half step or you're not
running directly into the line, So you've got to build
up a little bit of momentum, whereas we saw Scotland
just that power of their carry and the way that
they were carrying generate momentum and get across the game
line much more adaptable than the All Blacks Worth.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Well, it's just the old out age that you need
to earn the right to go wide. It's very well
to want to go to width and to want to
play with pace, but you need that generally, you need
that front foot momentum to do that.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So a bit of a variety would help.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, Well, thank you Dylan as well for your tweet
as well. We're enjoying the responses to keep those coming
and we'll feedback a feedback through the podcast as well,
and they goes through anyone. If you've got any thoughts
on anything we raise on Rugby Direct field free to
get in touch shot on social media and we about
four years into the podcast, we'll get an email at
some point there's on the to do list. It's in
the works that we are getting to the twenty first
(15:16):
century and getting an email address for Rugby Direct. So
two from two on the Grand Slam Tour yep, so live,
it's live and if you'd said that before you left
New Zealand you would have taken it right.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Look, I think Islands is generally viewed as a fifty
to fifty match, and going to Murrayfield with that occasion,
if you push aside some historical arrogance amongst New Zealand
rugby fans, that was always going to be a huge test.
From where the All Blacks were at halftime, you would
have expected wanted them to kick on.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
But I think before the match I was very nervous.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I thought Scotland were a red hot crack and it
turned out to be that way.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And it was and it was interesting here. We spoke
to Ethan deg Group postgame and he talked about the
atmosphere when it comes to Murrayfield and that if you
haven't experienced playing in those stadiums, like at Twick, like
at Murrayfield, like at the Millennium Stadium, it's very hard
to understand the experience. Even just being there as a fan,
you can get a sense of what it's like for
(16:20):
the All blackstick to go and play in this cauldron
and the noise and the Flower of Scotland starts reverberating
around when they're on the front foot in the second
spell and perhaps I think you said that, you know,
Kiwis tend to just go and sit on the hands
or whatever it was.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It well, we said, New Zealand fans can learn a lot,
could learn a lot from experiencing fandom, true fandom up here.
And it's very true. We were very conservative and how
we support teams. We sit there and we analyze and
we analyze rather than support, we enjoy the spectacle. But yeah,
generally there's not a lot of enthusiasm and passion outwardly,
(16:54):
at least where man, it felt like you were carried
to another stratosphere at times when Scotland were on the
front foot at Murrayfield, it really was magic occasion.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
It certainly was. So let's look ahead through England this
weekend and they had a good win over Fiji over
the weekend. But from an All Blacks perspective, they're gonna
have to make some changes. Caleb Clark has been ruled out.
Scott Barrett is a possibility of returning this week. Let's
start with the back line first. Where would you look
(17:26):
to go? Would you keep leicsterfying a look on them midfield?
Would you just go wing for wing replacement for Caleb Clark.
What are you thinking?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Well, first of all, they have a number of options,
don't they.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I think they will go Leicester to the wing to
replace Caleb Clark and bring Billy Proctor in to center.
And the reason for that is Razor has generally throughout
his coaching career the Crusaders the All Blacks favored at
least one power wing, and I think if the alternative
(18:03):
is to go McKenzie to fall back and play Carter
and Jordan on the wings, I think, yes, Riquewanne and
Sevice and Reuben Love are all options, but I think
that's the way they'll go because I think if you
play McKenzie, Jordan and Carter, it's a very short and
(18:24):
lightweight back three. Lester's spent two years in France playing midfield,
so wings not his specialty. But I think whatever happens
that All Blacks back three is going to be targeted
under the high ball, and I think you can still
involve him from the edge. I think Billy's best asset
is a defense. Hasn't necessarily shown that for the All Blacks,
(18:48):
but I think they still have a lot of faith
in them and that's why he was on the bench
last week, so I think that's the way they will go.
Caleb Clarke is a massive loss. Though he's come back
played really well. He has been damaging with his ball carrying.
He's been largely good in the year. But I do
worry about the the ragin of high balls that's going
(19:12):
to come for the All Blacks this weekend because it's
still an issue.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
It's still going. Yeah, that's Scott on Game of the weekend,
Will Jordan battling under the high ball. There was other knockins, look,
I think.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
And without Jordi Barrett. Jordi Barrett was a massive asset
that they were using to cover that backfield. So he's
a big loss in that regard.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
To he is. And I don't know, it's probably the
one thing stopping Will Jordan from being, you know, perhaps
the best fullback in the world at the moment, is
that the fact that he is just battling to take
those high balls. And whether it's a matter of super
rugby not aerially attacking that way or whatever it might be,
the All Blacks need to know what's coming this weekend.
(19:51):
And so looking at that back three, I would probably
agree with you and go Lester on the left wing
and retain Will Jordan at fullback Leroy Carter on the
right wing, regardless of his brain snap on the weekend. Midfield, though,
I would probably say I probably look to go to
(20:11):
Rico Yuani at center. Billy Proctor. I think the jury
is still out big time. This is a massive test
with the All Blacks. Rico Yuanni, you know, move was
moved away from midfield at the start of the year.
Billy Proctor was tagged as the guy. I think Rica
is a better defensive center than Billy Procter. I think
for this test match of horses for courses approach, I
would put Rico Yuanni in the center.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah, okay, oh that's fair.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I don't think Rico's Ricos played wing all year for
the All Blacks, so person I can't see them going
back that way.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
But I think you're right.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
For all the criticism around Rico's performances at center, defensively
he was really good.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
There's no doubt attacking wise that there were massive questions
over it. But I think for this test match, where
I think defense is going to be what was demanded
of this All Blacks team, that's the way i'd go
this week.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, I think they'll go Proctor and Rico on the bench.
I can't say Proctor starting raccoons the bench.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah, I can't see them what Sevaresa or Reuben Lover
can't I don't really Or Antonine A. Brown, I don't
really feel like they're on the conversation based on the
way Razers selected this team in recent weeks.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I don't think so. I mean, you could build the
argument for a Ruben Love if Damie McKenzie were to
come into the starting team, but I just don't see that.
And I think everyone's going on with Dame McKenzie great
off the bench now deserves a chance to start. We
still can't get it through our heads. People. The bench
is vitally important in test matches, and it's not a case,
(21:40):
I don't think anymore of playing well on the bench.
You earn a chance to start playing well on the bench.
That's not a war. To start playing well on the
bench is a basically a sign the bench is working
and you're turning the game. That's what you want out
of the bench, and that's the warrior I had by
moving Wallace a TD into the run on side is
that you're overvaluing the first fifty minutes compared to the
(22:01):
last thirty. And I get there's more time in the
first fifty, could be the last thirty, but those last
thirty I saw vital in a Test match and it's
where it's decided. And we saw the All Blacks come
home in the last twenty in Chicago and again probably
the last ten, but we didn't get the impact out
of the All Blacks bench bar McKenzie. You know Deepycreef,
he came on for eight minutes at the end of
the game. Billy Procter was fearly anonymous when he came on.
(22:24):
Of course he's right, and didn't even get on.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
So I think the front rowers are performing really well.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Pasilio, Tossi Summersony Takyaho and Mighty Williams. Massive impact from
those guys are really delivering yep.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
So the front row yep. And McKenzie absolute tick. But
I think you keep McKenzie in the benchroll because that's
what you want him running at tied defenses in the
last thirty minutes of the game.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
I think Look, Damien's played his best rugby for the
All Blacks certainly this year at full back, and I
think he probably does deserve a start, but yeah, bringing
him on the last twenty half an hour as he's
the best bench assets from a back's perspective and world
rugby right now, so I think I think you leave
(23:13):
him there. Look, I think Scott Barrett plays and that's
a big end for the All Blacks because one of
the big concerns I have this week is how much
gas do the All Blacks have in the tank playing
for half an hour with fourteen men. I can vividly
picture them now, hands on hips, out on their feet
at various times in that Scottish match. I think that
(23:34):
will take a lot out of them. This is their
third big test in a row. England are a big
physical pack, so I do have concerns from a fatigue perspective.
So Scott Barrett coming into the Type five pushing Josh
load to the bench, I think that's vital. So two
questions for you, do you have concerns from a fatigue
(23:56):
point of view? And with Scott Barrett coming in, what
do you do with Simon Parker? So he was dropped
essentially last week loss of TT with dup c Carifi
coming on the bench. Are they holding him back for
this England Test.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I don't think it's worth giving up on Simon Parker
just yet. I'm not saying they have given up on
Simon Parker. They made that change for the weekend. I
think after a pretty good start in his career, he's
maybe tailed off a little bit, but defensively wise he
is good and I think you need that body this week,
just targeting anything that moves from the English pack.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
So you're starting him.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I'm starting. I'm starting sign Parker this week and putting
it and again going back to my bench point putting
Wallace a TD on the bench.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Okay, I'm leaving the tt out there because I want
him to play fifty sixty minutes. I was really impressed
by what he did in the first half and I
think back to last year I took in him. He
put the world right beyond notice with a phenomenal performance.
So I want the most out of the tt A.
From a minute's point of view, I think there's an
(25:02):
argument to bring Simon Parker potentially onto the bench. I
haven't seen a lot of impact out of careffee he's
there to come on and get you a game changing
turnover or target the breakdown. But England are a massive
physical pack and I really think he might struggle with
that record.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I could see the argument with Scotland. The way that
they traditionally attack leaves open more opportunities for breakdown turn
nerves now didn't really happen in that regard because of
the way the game had flowed to that point and
where the All Blacks were when Karifer came on and
what the seventy second minutes. So hard to judge on
that regard, but I don't think this is the test
match for Plus Cafe.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
No, I agree.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Worth noting Luke Jacobson, who hasn't played for the All
Blacks all year, is also out with concussion after taking
a head knock for the All Blacks fifteen.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Just on that question of fatigue, Cam roy Guard has
now played seventy eight minutes in Chicago in eighty minutes
at Murrayfield.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
That worries me less than some of the full pack
because he hasn't played a lot this year and he's
consistently the fittest.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, he's very very fair.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
That the Yo Yosi was, if not top pushing Boden
Barrett for the record score. So yeah, big minutes, but
he's been out a lot this year as well.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
But what does it say about their faith in Courtiz
Ratam and now not saying you, I admire the fact
that they kept can Roy guard out there against Silent
and again against Swotland. I think he is by far
the best half back in New Zealand and certainly in
the conversation for top two or three in the world
at the moment. But what does it say about Courtiers
Ratsima that they traditionally have always gone for and again
(26:43):
throwing not throwing away Test caps but bringing on players
for the sake of it. I don't like, but you've
traditionally gone for that change up half back with fifteen
to twenty minutes to go. Can Roy Guards playing excellent
rugby at the moment, But what does it say that
they're perhaps not wanting to bring on Ratsima and changing
the pace of the game or the direction of the
game at that point.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, I think it says two things.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
It says can royguards and another straightest fear to to
any other hard half back in that all black squad currently,
you know, Finlay Christie and Cortes lastm just aren't within
touching distance of him regards scored twelve tries since making
his debut in July twenty twenty three, more than any
other half back in men's international rugby in that period.
(27:27):
Neil Black's also when he plays. When he's in the
twenty three have won over ninety percent of their tests
under Razor, and I think otherwise they might be at
late seventies. So his influence on that team, for me,
is greater than anyone else. So I'm happy that they're
playing in eighty minutes.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
But you're but you're right.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
It does say that nobody's within touching distance. And look,
I think that may change if Noah Hotham was in
the squad but casting further ahead, if you could go
Dylan Pledger, he could come on and further up the tempo.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
But that's probably at least a year away.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Really, I think from the sort of scenario, Roy Guard
is just such a lethal west set.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
If you can play eighty minutes, then why not keep
him out there?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Here's a take for you twenty eight minutes into the podcast.
Should I say this a lot? I'm gonna say it.
Could you move can roy This is not a this
weekend discussion, but if he's going to get an eighty
minute half back, could you keep him out on the
park and bring on a Dylan Pledge Noah Hotham type
and move a roy Guard into say a ten position
(28:36):
or even on the wing lace in a test match
if he's still having an influence on the game. But
you do want that dynamic, quick reception out of half back,
but Royga can still have an influence. Is there a way?
And again people are going, what the fuck is this
guy talking about? But could you have them both out
on the park at the moment?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I was workshopping this take with our friend Louis Herman
Watt earlier today.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Look if needs must and you lose a number of backs,
I think he could potentially yeah, cover wing, But I
thank you there's this specialist for a reason. Yeah, and
I don't thinks played. He might have played a bit
of ten for the Canes at one point, but.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, I think it was Isaac Boss whould work with
him at counties level on this A year or so on.
Sky City believes that Ruga could play ten ye just
an idea.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
He probably could, but not for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Okay, I will take quick break here on Rugby Direct.
Come back with the thoughts on the other games that
went around the rugby stratosphere over the weekend.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Try ten sixty every tackle, Get up again before I'm
not It's Rugby Direct. Go back with Rugby Direct. Fe
more thoughts on where the All Blacks and England might
go in a moment or two. But let's go around
the other games that occurred during the weekend. We don't
(30:11):
want to start. France South Africa was probably the banner
game of the weekend. Rematch that quarterfinal from twenty twenty three,
and South Africa, despite being reduced to fourteen men for
just over forty minutes, were too good for France. It
started to France. That is a big win for South
Africa Circleise's one hundredth There was all sorts of motion
around that were reduced to fourteen men with lud Diyaga
(30:35):
being sent off. If that was the battle for the
world number one team, well, South Africa win by absolute knockout.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
That's another absolute statement performance isn't it. France and Paris
is an incredibly tough game to win. The all Blacks
have found out out that outs this time last year.
And yeah, going down to a straight red card, which
you don't see very often, just on that thoughts on
the decision it.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Was a red card. I felt a little bit sorry
for lud Diyaga to an extent because I did think
there was the sign of a rap motion, but it
was probably not enough to save them from the red card.
But I didn't think the process and again this is
going back to my old favorite around the product versus
the decision. And so basically the foul play review officer,
(31:24):
once the decision is communicated to them, can only decide
on a yellow card or a twenty minute red card.
So Angus Gardener had to be the sole arbiter of
whether this was a full red card or not with
his assistance and the TEMO. I don't know why that's
a rule. Surely the foul payer review officer should have
all three punishments available to them yellow card, twenty minute
red card and a full red card, because on two
(31:46):
or three looks it had been clearly looked like it
was with the off field review. Great, that's what the
off field reviews for. I don't know why the foul
play review officer, who have seven or eight minutes to
look at all those angles, can't decide whether it's a
full redcard or not. That seems like a necessary hamstring
the process. So it was on angers Garden to make
(32:08):
that it was a full real I don't get why
that's the case, but I don't think lou diug has
probably got too much to complain about.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
No, I think it was justified.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Look, there was potential mitigation in the fact that there
was a big dip, but it's clear shoulders to the
head and there is no real wrapping motion, so he
left himself open to the officials.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And look, in the end it didn't cost South Africa.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
They came over the top of France, Sasha scoring a
late try and South Africa kicking clear.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
So quite a bad loss at home for France. Really
they didn't have DuPont, but.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
There's no real excuses otherwise, and it's their fourth loss
in a row and the last time they lost five
was twenty eighteen. That's from Russ Petty, the statistician in
the UK. That is a bit skewed because they sent
a second string team out to New Zealand in July. Look,
I still feel like France have massive strength and depth
(33:11):
and they are absolute superpower. But I think it is
a real punch in the face for them to lose
like that, having the one man advantage for so long.
I thought the handling was poor. They didn't really take
their opportunities. They can be quite erratic still, so it's
a bad loss.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
At home can leads to one man band.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Look, there's no doubt Anton DuPont is their talesman, and yeah,
they probably have become overly reliant on him in recent years.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, I think I'd have been concerns about France and
they are a quality team. They're very, very hard to
play at home. But we saw what happened to them
in the World Cup at home, where they obviously lost
to South Africa and been kind of melted down a
little bit as a result of that loss, but also
just perhaps the home weight of expectation as well didn't
(34:07):
sit well with them. They started strongly against the All Blacks,
of course, but didn't quite work out from the home
World Cup. There's something interesting about the French that if
you're not traveling down to New Zealand for test series
like this, and I get why they didn't send a
full strength team, but at some point you're going to
have to spend seven eight weeks if you want to
win a World Cup in Australia with your teammates on
(34:28):
the road. And I just don't know that they have
that cohesiveness because of their approach to traveling to the
Southern Hemisphere that when it comes to the crunch, it's,
you know, one thing, spending four weeks at a time
with them in your own beds and then playing the
Six Nations and going around Europe. But going to a
World Cup when you've got, you know, to travel a
(34:49):
foreign country and you know, spend seven eight weeks with
your teammates, that is an entirely different thing. And that's
where I'm not sure that the French quite get it.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
I think they are both propelled and hamstrung by the
strength of the domestic game. And the top fourteen is
a fantastic act. It's it's they have amazing depth, but
it's hamstring strings them in that July window. And when
(35:19):
your top team is not playing together very or often enough,
that really affects your cohesiveness and your ability to build
combinations and all those things travel to different destinations. Playing
abroad really matters. You think about the All Blacks coming
up here and you know players gaining the experience of
playing at Murrayfield and twicking them. It's a it's a
(35:40):
world away from playing in New Zealand's and a similar
sort of scenario for the French. So I think not
playing together in July while they're building depth and all
those sorts of things, that doesn't help their top team
gel and I think that's probably been born out a
little bit in that result of the weekend.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Let's talk Australia at ithly great for my Did I
say this on the podcast or that I can see
libiting you might have? Yeah they did.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah it was dog on Australia. They cost me my
Southern sweep. I didn't have Fiji in there, but yeah,
look that's a it's not a shock, but it's a
result that should rattle Australian rugby and they really stunted
and maybe hit the wall after a long hair.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Think after Alice Park and a lot of the talk
that you know they came from twenty two Nel down
the Wallabies a back the Lions series, yep, absolutely, which
they could have won, and then it has just spun
out of control big time.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
And I think they've won five from thirteen now this year.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, and if it wasn't for that scrappy win over
Japan and Tokyo a few weeks back, they'd be on
a seven game losing streak. Essentially, Potentially if they look
at the end of the year with Ireland and France
to hate, they could come out and beat Ireland. Who knows.
But and I see this morning that got Will Skelton
and James O'Connor have joined them in Dublin. So the
(37:03):
Cavalry's come in a little bit.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
But that's half their problem though, isn't it. Yeah, they're
not there all the time. And yeah, I do question
Schmidt's sticking with I know he started Carter Gordon and
that match, but sticking with Tane Edmonds first five remains
an issue. And also saw Joe Schmitt come out afterwards
and say, look, stick with us, we're doing our best.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Keep the faith. But I think if you're an Australian.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Rugby furious coach, if you're Australian rugby fan, it's skin
it to that that tether point again, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
What it is? And if there was a gimme test
in the next couple of weeks that you go, maybe
Lee was the gimme test. And they've now blown that.
And they've got France team who have now been stung
by losing to stay I forget to finished the year.
They've got Ireland this week, who are very very good
at the Aviva. Yeah, it feels like spinning out of control.
(37:57):
And you know, Joe Schmitt hands the reins over mid
next year to Le's kiss. But it's interesting. I saw
our friend Christy Dorian do a piece of the raw
around Joe Schmitt's legacy. So two tests to save the
legacy here for Joe Schmitt. And it does feel a
little bit like that.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yep, it does. Look he was startings from such a
low EBB. Yeah, Joe schmittt.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Promise he's gonna he could finish at a low eb
and you forget about those highs in the middle. Yeah,
you do.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Look, I thought he's done a lot of good things,
but results matter, don't they. And we're, like you said,
it's starting to spiral now and it's been a huge
year for the Wallabies and I think that's starting to tell.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It is Wales beating Argentina. Steve tandy first game as coach,
Argentina's biggest win over Wales. But to work on I
mean there were some positives there that they could put
on what twenty eight points in the end, not so
positive that Jack Morgan, who's by far their best player,
is now out for the rest of the year.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
It's a big blow.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
They have Japan this week, they have the All Blacks
next week, they have South Africa the following week, so
they've still got, you know, some big test matches to
come and with an eye to the World cut seedings
that's shrawn on December third. This Wales Japan game actually
takes on a lot of significance this week in so
(39:22):
they could get down to that third band of memory
serves right if they lose this weekend.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, I saw.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
I think it was Rugby passed at a piece, basically
saying that it's incredibly hard. Now after the Wallabies loss,
I think Scotland have the best chance of breaking into
the top six, which gives you a favorable World Cup draw,
but it is very unlikely that the top six is
going to change.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah, lock Whale was there in a world it hurts.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
They are looking at cutting at least one domestic professional
team and look, I think Steve Tandy, you've got to
give him time.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
He was defensive coach with Scotland's and so it's not
a three week job.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
No, he won't be happy with that of conceding for
to your points, but he's not going to turn that
around overnights. He's making all the right noises. But so
Wales have now considered the most and second most first
half points at home and their last two matches they
are thirty three via England and thirty one va Argentina.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
So like it's an up pearl battle, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
It really is. Before we go on Rugby Direct, let's
circle back to the All Blacks and England on Sunday
morning for a m England. I think a possibility to
name the team early. They might do it on Tuesday.
Haven't heard an update on that front as yet, but
they are on a nine match winning streak and they're
putting together some solid performances. That Fiji game, they were
(40:50):
you know, at the balance for a little bit but
managed to kick clear and put forty on them. In
the ends, they hung tough against a poor Australian side.
Didn't have to hang cats up, but they just knew
that they they wore them down, they were going to
get the win. There's some positive signs building in this
England team, but there will be a test for them
for the All Blacks this weekend.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
Well, let's first of all assess where they are at
and unpack that that nine match winning run. There's no
doubt they're building confidence and belief and at Twickenham it's
always been a bit of a fortress.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Seal Blacks have a pretty good record there.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
I don't know off the top of my head, but
they obviously won their last year in a very dramatic match.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I think it was twenty four twenty two down by Aden,
came back to one here.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
That was a Mark Tala try in the corner, Damien
McKenzie clutch conversion and George Ford misses a potentially match
winning drop goal. So, first of all, on the England records,
how good is this nine match winning run. I think
their most notable scalp in that is France. I think
their last loss was maybe the first round to Islands
(41:55):
of the six nations in Dublin.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
So what do you make of that streak?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
First and foremost, you don't win nine games by excellent
against anyone. Um, I think that's generally true. And they
beat France by one point to Twickenham. They beat Scotland
by one point at Twickenham. But as from South Africa
the last World Cup, three wins in a row, even
by one point will get new places, and then Italy
(42:20):
and Wales after that, two pretty good and straightforward wins
for them. There's a couple of games in there where
we go weekend Argentine, the team who I don't think
had their full strength side of memory serves for some
of those games. Mind you needed did England, so hard
to know whether that even constitutes a test match when
(42:40):
you've got all your best players playing for the Lions.
They had the USA I think in there as well,
and then those last couple of weeks, so again you
don't win nine games by accident. They're a very very
good team. I think they've still got a little bit
to prove where they sit in World rugby, but I
think to be honest, they're in a pretty good spot
two years out from a World Cup. I don't know
if they're quite there as yet. This test will be
(43:03):
a very very interesting marker as to where they sit.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
I I don't know about you, but I always felt
this would be the greatest threat to the All Blacks
Grand Slam Tour. They're chasing their first Grand Slam in
fifteen years, and it always felt like England's loomed on
the horizon, you know. And there's history here, recent history
as well, because not only that game last night November,
(43:29):
Bill Black's played in England's played three times last year.
I think England came down to New Zealand twice in
July probably should have been Neil Blacks and raised his
first game in charge in Dunedin when Marcus Smith missed
a couple off the tea from memory, and then they
went pretty close at Eden Park when Boden Barrack came
off the bench to turn that game late. So there'll
(43:50):
be a sense of unfinished business for England, a sense
of revenge that they'll want. They'll be right up for this,
and yeah, they built some confidence and belief. I think
last week they made some changes.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
They went to.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Finn Smith at ten and Marcus Smith at fullback, so
more hacking endeavor. But I think they will revert to
their DNA revert to type this week, go back to
George Ford at number ten and I Freddy Stewart's will
probably come in at fullback. Alex Mitchell will kick all
day from the base. Do you expect anything out of
the box from ingend or will it be classic not
(44:28):
ten man rugby, but they'll look to go to their
set piece and squeeze and kick.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I would love to see them play out of the box.
I think it's when they're at their best, actually, when
they challenge the All Blacks as they think back to
that game they won in twenty twelve where they did
play attacking rugby and took the All Blacks attired All Blacks,
but All Blacks on at their own game, the game
in twenty twenty two where they came back from what
was at twenty five six down to draw the game.
(44:54):
They were chasing it, but it forced them to play
a little bit of attack. I get why they play
like they do, but sometimes I think they're actually more
efficient against the All Blacks in terms of that head
to head matchup when they do take the All Blacks
on at their own game. You know, you saw Scotland
get a lot of pay at the strong direct carries. Now, yes,
maybe England will do that anyway, but Scottland also found
(45:17):
space on the edge. By doing that. With that strong carries,
they're able to suck the defense in the middle of
park open up space on either edge. So they've got
some fine wingers as well, Tommy Freeman and Manuel fey Woboso.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yeah, he's a real weapon.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
So but they're a really really good team. And as
I said, I like where they're sitting two years out
from World Cup. Henry Arundel. There's another strong player in
that back line who may get a start this week.
Potentially interesting to see what Steve Borthwick does.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
But Chanlo Cunning himself Yep, damaging bull career, the Kiwi
born loose Ford.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's right, and so I really like the way that
they are positioned with the night of the World Cup.
So it's just gonna be interesting to see what they
do at ten this week. Do they go back to
George Ford?
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Yeah, he was their man against the Wallabies two weeks ago,
and I don't think Finn Smith really took his chance
against Fiji. He's performed really well for Northampton, but I
don't think he really suits the style that Borthwick likes
to play. Look, I think England can play a multitude
(46:19):
of ways, but first and foremost they will go back
to that Maro ToJ massive presence as well lead the
Lions tour, and not only from a line out perspective,
but he is an absolute menace at the breakdown, so
the Blacks need to get that right.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Very impressed as well by Fraser Dingal, who's only played
I think five sixtiest potentially like the look of him
at second five as well. So it's very very good team.
It's hard to too many weaknesses in that England side,
but what we have seen is occasionally they get to
a point we think they're on the rise and then
(46:57):
the full comes. So again, oh, this is.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
The big reveal for both teams, isn't it. Yeah, it's
quite hard to get a real gauge on where the
All Blacks are at and where England are at, and
I think this week it's one of the greatest rugby venues.
It will be another huge occasion we will find out.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, flew over that last night as a coming in.
It's like they had the heaters on the surface and
everything like that. It's like, yeah, this is a Aliard stadium.
Nothing better.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Yeah, no, no, no, pound Spirit No, Absolutely very much.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Looking forward to it. We'll be back with another podcast
once the teams are revealed later in the week, probably
Friday morning at New Zealand time, but on Behalf Lars
and Bars englishly in Napier and Xy Solutions celebrating twenty
five years in business. Elliott Smith pushing you a very
good week.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
For more from News Talks b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com