November 17, 2025 • 43 mins
On the latest Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier check in from Cardiff for a post-mortem to the All Blacks' humbling defeat to England - where is this All Blacks side at, are they stagnant or going backwards and does there need to be a re-assessment of the side's coaching make-up in the wake of the third defeat of the year.
We also check in on the other results of the weekend, as well as predict how the All Blacks might line-up against Wales this weekend in Cardiff.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions, celebrating twenty
five years in business. Let's get into it, Liam, don't
waste any time. Give us your thoughts. All Blacks and
England's the All Blacks third loss of the year. The
people want to know what you think.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It was a fairly dark day at Twickenham, wasn't it.
Elliott's Look for me, this wasn't unexpected. I thought England
would win and just on the basis of what we've
seen in recent times from the All Blacks. Look, if
we deal with the game first and foremost, England came
(01:02):
out of the blocks and threw everything at the All Blacks.
They did well to whether an early storm, scored two good,
were up twelve nil. I thought their line out was
really good. They got I think three steals in the
first half, but there wasn't a lot else that went right.
There was some really poor instances when Boden Barrett's and
(01:23):
I'm pretty sure it was Cam Roygard's on the second occasion,
which most people have actually missed. Roygard missed touch, so
twice the All Blacksmiths touch from penalties. Some of their
high ballwork allowed England to come back into the game
a couple of George Ford drop goals, and it's even
at that point it started to feel like the momentum
(01:45):
had turned. And then we had another third quarter fade,
the yellow card from Cody Taylor, which I reckon was harsh,
but you could argue it was cynical and England just
steamrolled the All Blacks from there. They had one tried
denied because of an offside from the line outs, and
concerning that the nature of those tries I think was
(02:07):
a Fraser ding wall that was just all too easy
waltzing through the All Blacks defense. Look credit to England.
They they performed really well. That They've got a number
of different different assets to their game, big strong, full pack.
You know, their DNA around the set piece, George Ford
was hugely influential. But there's some major, major concerns for
(02:31):
the All Black team and unless there's some major changes,
I also don't see them improving the only context to
that is they can touch on it a little bit
later when you give us your thoughts. But just around
the players that are missing from that I guess first
choice twenty three through injury.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah there are. But the All Blacks have always prided
themselves on having that next man up mentality and you know,
believing that players can create an opportunity if they were
to take it. But I thought this was a really
poor performance from the All Blacks. I you know, I
packed them last week. I thought they were going to
win by six, so I thought they had it in
(03:09):
them two beat what is a good and improving England side.
And you've got to give them their flowers because they
were very, very good and perhaps not as limited as
many thought they might be. With George Ford at ten.
In fact, he was the man for the occasion. He
stood up beautifully, I thought, while deserving. I was mad
at the match Crown, but from an All Blacks perspective,
that was some of the silliest rugby I've seen this
(03:32):
team play ever. And we'll focus on the All Blacks.
You know, England, we've given them their credit. But this
is a New Zealand Rugby podcast, so let's teak. We
dig into this All Blacks performance, but you touched on it.
Their missing touch twice is unforgivable, and you could argue
the twelve mil lead came almost against the run of
player a little bit. England dominated the early exchanges. Bill
(03:54):
Black's got their first opportunity. We're down at the in
the field and all of a sudden they were twelve
mi no ol up. But there doesn't seem to be
any realization on how to build pressure. And you know,
twelve and a up. Yes, England's score again relative soon
after that, and the momentum swings back to England, but
there's no trying to bank three more points. And you
(04:15):
look at the England mindset went from twelve to five
down in the four or five minutes will half time
to being twelve to eleven behind, and they swung the
momentum the All Blacks twelve miller up. You know, if
you get to fifteen, n'il start building a few more opportunities. Now,
they didn't keep hold of the ball well enough and
consolidate those points scoring opportunities well enough, and that left
them wide open and vulnerable. So when England scored and
(04:37):
England managed to keep scoring and keep that school board
pressure going on. It's a real thing. And that's what
All Blacks teams used to be able to do really well,
was keep that school board pressure tacking over it. This
current team doesn't seem to know how to do it.
And they were probably lucky to only lose thirty three
to nineteen because that trial binils you mentioned would have
blinded out with still about twenty five minutes ago. It
(04:59):
was already hard to see the All Blacks coming back
from that point. Just a really, really poor performance from
the All Blacks. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
One of the big concers for me is if you
look at the second half in particular, some of the
just seem bereft of ideas. On attack. They don't know
how to get go forward, they don't know how to
create space. They're waiting on individual brilliants to get them
out of trouble. They're really static, and what are they
(05:29):
doing from an attack?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
At point it seemed to play like a team on attack.
You're right that they're try and wait for that individual
moment to spark an attack and get them on the
front foot and get them going. Otherwise they go very lateral.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
It's all flat footed shuffling across the line waiting for
somebody to break attack or offload rather than trying to
set something up.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We saw in the first time and I think they
did as well, was when they sort of sucked all
the England defenders into the middle of the park and
then that created the opportunities for faying on Noku and
Cody Taylor on that left edge. But that's a good
trick to use twice. But then when you got the
ball back and trying to build pressure, it seemed like
they were waiting for England to basically give up a
penalty also then have an idea of what to do,
(06:11):
how to strike from meters fifty to twenty two. Just yeah,
that the attacking shape is non existent, I have to
say at the moment, and that may sound harsh, but
it just feels like there's not enough there to go. Yep,
bets and all Blacks attack. We know the way that
they want to play, we know this is the style
of All Blacks rugby. It doesn't seem to be any
(06:32):
style at the moment.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
No, so attack is one major concern. And then okay,
so who's responsible for the attack where you've got your
game drivers? First and foremost guys like Boden Barrett, Will
Jordan cam Rogal when he was on the pitch, but
from a coaching perspective, it's Scott Hansen and so I
think there needs to be some real questions asked about
(06:55):
what's happening with the All Black attack and why it's
not working and it hasn't been working this year. You've
got Jason Holland leaving at the end of the year.
He's a strike coach. I don't know how much say
he's actually had over that, so that's one issue. I
think the All Blacks kicked really poorly as well. Boden
Barrack I think he got one fifty twenty two. Cam
(07:16):
Roygal was hugely influential from the base, raking clearance kicks,
saving the All Blacks on a number of occasions, but
after he went off, I can't really remember the All
Blacks turning England around. Boden Barrack had a dinky little
chip for Ardie Severe. He's not the right guy to
be putting in a chip for that should be Will Jordan.
(07:36):
I'm not sure if that was a mix up of
some description, but they were supremely outplayed from a tactical
kicking point of view, and then tactically some just bizarre decisions,
not replacing a loose ford with the hooker until later
(08:00):
when Cody Taylor went off taking a tap kick rather
than kicking a goal.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And then well you to this touch on that because
when they took the tapy go, that's bizarre. But okay,
maybe there's a strike play or something set here that
they have practiced for on the training field. No, two
phases later, they just bombed it downfield.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Just an aimless kick in the air. They're never going
to get back. And you were just sitting there baffled, like,
what was the point in that? Who made that decision
and why? So tactically, on field, decision making, leadership, attack,
all these things are in the spotlight.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
They have to be. And you know, the All Black
scored nineteen points yesterday. They scored how many in the
second spell last week? Eight points. We can talk about
the second third quarter fades and it is a big
part of the game, but it wasn't the sole reason
they lost yesterday. Yes, they went in with a halftime
lead and that evaporated pretty quickly, but minutes one to
(08:58):
forty were also an issue. And so we're minutes sixty
to eighty. It just so happened that they considered the
first penalty of the game was yellow card. Cody Taylor
goes off, and they tried something different, used to try
to go out on the field three or four minutes
earlier and warm themselves back up after halftime. That didn't
work in the slightest. So it looks like a team
(09:21):
that are playing like individuals rather than a team at
the moment, and symptomatic of some of their losses this year,
the one in Argentina, the one in Wellington against South Africa,
as well as that these losses are coming in similar
fashion and teams are knowing how to beat the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Well, it's a common theme and it's been building. This
result has been building because the inconsistencies within games have
been there and in many ways results are papered over
the cracks. So, yep, the All Blacks finished brilliantly in
Chicago three tries. Credit for that twenty minute period where
everything clicked and then but for sixty minutes pretty poor.
(10:00):
The following week, Damien McKenzie saves their blushes after blowing
a seventeen point leads so those massive swings within games
that inconce instancies. This isn't a new theme. It's a
common thing that's very evident week to week, and they're
not solving it.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It is. And look previous All Black sides, the great
All Black sides, would have these sort of games where
they did need to find themselves out of trouble.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
But you're never going to have everything your own way, right, No.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
But if you have one of those games in a while,
that's understandable when you are basically having those week to
week and not being able to dominate the way that
All Blacks teams are expected to do and play the
way that all Blacks teams are expected to do. You know,
you look at the two teams yesterday and it was
England who bullied the All Blacks. Now, the All Blacks
(10:43):
have built their brand on being the you know, the
sharpest team in world rugby, having those attacking instincts, scoring
when you know it looked impossible by and large, apart
from that to Tripeia in the first Belt, it was
England who made the attack look easy rather than the
All Blacks. And I think it's a really worrying sign.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
It is, and I just want to I guess look
briefly on the other side of the fence for what
this one means for England. Right, So, first win at Twicken'
them over the All Blacks in thirteen years, first win
over the All Blacks in five years. It's there. It
was the second largest and the second most points I've
ever scored against the All Blacks. They've now won ten
(11:24):
games in a row and they are building. I mentioned
pre match that they have much more strength and depth
than Ireland and Scotland did. I think that that's very
evident by their bench. They are building some real momentum
and to paint the picture of these two teams, because
it really was going to color the complexion of both
(11:45):
side seasons. If you look back to last year England
have England lost three tight games to the All Blacks.
Last year they have improved significantly, I would argue the
All Blacks haven't. And they're basically are they exactly where
they are.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
They could be. They're pretty much stagnant from last year.
I mean, they've changed a few players and probably got
more selection, is right, but they feel like they have
a year on year. No, probably haven't improved and it
feels like to an extent, we're back in those days
of twenty twenty two where the All Blacks attack was
(12:23):
non existent. This is the Irish series in twenty twenty
two where yet they had a good game at Eton
Park when when things were changed and a few coaches
were out through COVID, but otherwise the attacking ship was
all over the show. They didn't know the way that
wanted to play and that force change and the All
Blacks set up. So I think, you know, people will say, oh,
(12:44):
you know, the one Island, the one Scotland, but I
think this was always going to be the one that
this tour was judged on if they got through the
first Yeah, the.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Whole theme of this tour was conquering the Kingdom winning
the Grand Slam.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And they were the ones that you know, said that
they wanted to do the Grand Slam and join the
other teams in history that had done so. So let's
park the attack for the moment. The defeat was also poor. Yesterday,
Leroy Carter was run over by Oli Lawrence for England's
first try. Fraser ding will slice through a gap in
(13:18):
the middle of the park that you know shouldn't have
been there as well. Work moved from England. But again
basics from the All Blacks go missing when they're under
pressure underhill scores close to the line. They were batted
there defensively wise, you know, again this falls under a
little bit of Scott Hansen's remit, but also Tomo d Allison.
We're not seeing the All Blacks defense with those renowned
(13:43):
you know, you know, turning defense into attack moments or
even just being able to defend your line that we
have come to correspond with this team over a number
of years.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, the All Blacks were brilliant defensively last week in Edinburgh,
they say, multiple tries on their line. It was really
heroic stuff. But you can't do that every week. And
a team like England, big physical pack, all the momentum
eighty one thousand p there, it's incredibly difficult to stop
(14:12):
and so some of those tries were really soft. But
you can't put yourself under that sort of pressure. You
need to put yourself in the right area of the field.
You need to build momentum in other ways. So, I
mean we've touched on a little bit. Let's really dull
into this coaching team. Where are they at I've got
(14:33):
real doubts about whether raises the guy right now and
if he is going to improve this team. I'm adamant
he needs to make changes to his coaching team.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, there is nothing on the basis of the last
two years that would seduce that they are a team
capable of winning the twenty twenty seven World Cup as
it stands now. Things can change a lot in two years,
but you can only go on the evidence that you've
been given to this point. And while the All Blacks
are supposedly ranked second in the world, and I'm not
sure how the rank of the loss use today changes.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
It, they'll stay at second, But for me, the probably
fourth behind South Africa, England and probably France.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And those maybe apart from France and look like our
team on the rise. Ireland don't know. I don't really
take a lot out of that when over Australia yesterday.
We'll talk about that a bit later, but it feels
like two years in we're not seeing the evidence that
this team is building towards the twenty twenty seven will cut.
There have been fits and starts and moments here and there,
and you know, you wonder whether they've turned a corner. Well,
(15:35):
it feels like yesterday they went back around the corner
and at a rate of knots. And you don't want
to view in isolation too much. And I think that's
why looking at a big picture is.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
It not about being knee jerk either, because the signs
that a result like this has been coming.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, well we had a result like this in September
in Wellington, and then they went and beat Australia, who
are on the come down of that line series and
beating the spring Boks. Then they go up again and
beat Ireland in Chicago and then beat Scotland. But again
I go back to this point, You're halfway point for
the World Cup. Where's this team at? And it's hard
(16:13):
to mount an argument that they could win a quarter final,
a semi final and a final consecutively, backing up week
to week. So I think there has to be concerns
about the coaching team.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah. So for me, there's a couple of things that
need to happen. My understanding is Robertson, Scott Hansen and
Jason rowan a very very tight click and they don't
necessarily share information. Well they select the team. I think
that needs to be challenged. I think they didn't have
(16:43):
attack coach. That seems very evident. And with Jason Holland leaving,
I think Scott Robinson said he didn't plan to replace them. Well,
I think New Zealand Rugby at the end of this year,
with all due respect to Wales, the result of this
week in's fiction, unless you all Becks lose, is not like,
is not going to alter where things are at Bill
(17:06):
Becks will make changes and they should win, but it's
not going to change the complexion. So I think New
Zealand Rugby needs to have a real hands on look
and have a say in that coaching team, and there
needs to be some real pointed feedback around that because
sitting idle is not an option because on the horizon
(17:28):
is that that tour to South Africa and that is
going to be incredibly torrid. The Springboks are getting further
ahead of everyone and if you don't make change now,
that could go really bad.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Well, you don't want to look back in a year
and go gee, I wish would change something then, because
now we're stuck with X Y Z it or stuck
in this pattern.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
There was also always concern around this coaching team about
the lack of international experience, and I think that's probably
been born out the other The other thing which we
think we know is that you know, Razer doesn't do
a lot of hands on coaching, and Scott Hansen is
his right hand man, has a lot of say in
(18:11):
a lot of things with that big tactics. Yeah, look,
that dynamics pretty interesting in itself.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
That's from the outside and you can do what you
want when you're winning. And if that's the system that
works for you when and you're putting results on the board,
then have at it. Because you know, so has had
a director of rugby with Russi and Jacques Ederberger was
coaching for the last four years. Every team and nation
have their own quirks. And if that's the system that
you want to go with and it works for you, great,
(18:37):
If it works. When it doesn't work, that's when it
invites questions. And I think I said on the podcast
a couple of weeks ago around the division of labor
in this coaching cawnp it feels like a lot is
on a few shoulders, but also lots on you know,
really phrase that lots on a few shoulders, But is
it too much on one pair of shoulders and not
enough on the next pair of shoulder if you get
(18:58):
my drift, and I think it.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Needs to be clear directives around who's doing what.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That's right and I would suggest that when you are
struggling to get results like this All Blacks team is
at the moment three losses this year for last year,
then you go back to basics. You go back to
a head coach at a tech coach, a defense coach,
and you know you can have your micro coroaches like
a scrum coach, et cetera behind that. You can't sort
(19:26):
of have a system like this where the division of
labor is unclear when you're not getting results. I think
that's my opinion on it.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, and look, coaches live and die by results. But
it's also the way, the manner in which you win,
the manner in which you lose. The spring box defeat.
This defeats the big swings and blowouts and consistencies that
says something's not right and something's not working and something
needs to be done about that because if you don't,
it festers and it will get worse.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
That's right, and look, this All Blacks brand relies on
them winning, And so that also goes and feeds into
those questions, is that you know, they sell this brand
and go around the Globe and the Bean to Chicago,
and with a little bit of help from the Irish
population in Chicago and Ireland themselves, they go through and
build this around the globe that they had a lot
(20:16):
of sponsor events last week in London. Again, that's built
on a history of winning. When you're not winning, even
for a season or two, and it starts drying up,
that's when the sponsors go, was this brand all that's
cracked up to be? So the All Blacks need to
be winning?
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yeah, they do. The only portal mate is you put
two po Vi Patrick two Polo to Tyre Alomax, Kay, Barrett, Jordi, Barrett,
Caleb Clark back in that team. And when Roygard plays
eighty minutes when he went off, that was incredibly telling.
The All Blacks downward spiral can be intrinsically linked to that.
(20:52):
It's a much better all Black team. But there's still
major question marks around who is the long term first
five who I think Leroy Carter's days are probably numbered
on the right wing, and I think there's still major
question marks about the blindside.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yep. Well, I don't think Simon Parker has put his
hand up yesterday. I thought it was the right decision
potentially to have him come off the bench. It was
too late for Walls as he did have impacted in
that game.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I would have started Wallace. I think they got that
selection wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, I agree in hindsight. Leroy Carter defensively was found
out yesterday. Hasn't had a number of attacking opportunities on
this tour. Chip and Chase woodwell yesterday on that one
occasion he did, but again it feels like he's struggling
to get involved in Test rugby at the moment. And
I will also look at this team and go they
(21:43):
were conservative and selection last year and I think that
is now hamstringing them this year because they're trying to
expose some players at Test level almost you know, and
the numbers that I think they had roughly about twenty
debutants in the last couple of years. But they were
conservative last year and basically probably didn't expand as much
(22:05):
as they should have in year one and stunted development.
And I think they're now playing from behind because you
could argue, as we touched on before that England and
now I headed them on a tractory and you're speaking
to a couple of England rugby riders. They reckon that
the All Blacks. Sorry that England maybe six to twelve
months ahead of the All Blacks. I think they're taking
that leap over the Six Nations this year and beyond.
(22:27):
And I think the All Blacks now paying the price
of just being a little bit too conservative last year
around their selections.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, and you look, you can run the risk of
throwing young players in too early, but I think that
the All Blacks on the whole have been conservative. Fabian
Holland was another one who didn't play still because he
was sick. So Bill Black's basically had six of their
first choice twenty three out, so that's important context. Look
(22:54):
next year I want to see back into Super Rugby
all going well. I think guys like Dylan Pledger and
Caleb Tongueytowel needs to come into the squads. I think
it's very evident the drop from cam Roy guards. I
think they could use some real pace in the outsides.
(23:14):
Tongueytail not the Finnished product, but I think he deserves
to be on the spot over over a sevy Reese.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, over a severy rees. I mean, I'm not sure
his defense seeing him at EPC level is any better
than Leroy Carter's, and I think, you know, he can't
slip wing solely on defense, but I think it helps
and I'm not sure there's much of a boost there,
but I think if he has another good Super Rugby
campaign with the Hinders, then absolutely worthy of consideration. Yeah,
it leaves the All Blacks in a vulnerable position.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I think this raises something about seventy three percent. Seven
from my maths isn't great, but seven from twenty six
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, they've played fourteen last year. They've played twelve year
in twenty six.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Years, even losses from twenty six.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It's not a great record. And there was a lot
of expectation on Scott Robertson when he came into the
job that you know things were going to change and
the All Blacks are going to play a little differently.
The bizarre thing is that they're not playing like they did.
His game plan at the Crusaders. You think about the
way they played the Crusaders is very full dominated and
Yusus she had Will Jordan popping up in Sevy recent
(24:20):
those sort of things, and Richie Wonger pulling the strings.
But they're not playing like that Crusader's team. So I'm
not sure what's being lost and you can't play like
you did at Super Rugby versus test Rake. But I'd
argue that the Crusader's products that they were game plan
that they were using is more akin to test Rugby
than whatever the All Blacks are you doing at the moment.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah, maybe I don't know if it necessarily.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
It may not translate, but you know it's a fure dominant.
You know, they think about how many times they'd bang
it into the corner. Sam Whitelock would be there, that
attack really well in the red zone, that finished those opportunities.
Things that count on defenses to break. We don't see
that at test rak B at the moment from the
All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
No, and some of the big things we're missing a
real ruthlessness, accuracy and taking your chances and just clear
decisive decision making in leadership that you know, there's some
real flaws around those things that will like you say,
we used to see those from previous All Black teams.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
They don't do enough with the ball. They're not being
driven around the park well enough. Now Bone Barrett had
an injury, a quad injury. Ues today. Did some good
things in the first twenty minutes, but it sort of
fell away a bit after that, and you look at
what George Fool was able to do and just slow
down the game a little bit even though they were behind.
Being a couple of drop goals over then increased the
(25:40):
intent of the after halftime.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, but if Boden's not right to the point that
Cam Roygard and Will Jordan are taking line kicks, do
you not replace them with Damian McKenzie. So yeah, yeah,
some strange, strange decisions.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
A couple of feedback moments already from our listeners on
social media that I'm going to get to on Rugby Direct.
So this is from Floyd's regular listener who tweeted me, no,
Scott Robinson didn't get it right. Please spend time on
the next Rugby Direct discussing one Scott Robinson's long pattern
of long running pattern of poor selections. I think we've
(26:15):
touched on that two More importantly, something clearly isn't right
in camp. What is it? Do you have any response
on that.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Well, I think we've touched on what needs to change
from from a coaching team perspective, and I think it
does all start at the top.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
From the outside of their here like a happy camp
that's from the outside. We're not privy to all those
moments and the time we get with them, you know,
at the training paddock or at media conferences, So it's
hard to say, yeah, it seemed like a happy bunch, there'd.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Be, but there'd be a lot of tension there this week.
I think players like Ricowani would be very muffed about
not being picked. I think there's divisions in every team,
so you're going to have players passed off about not
being selected in any team right leadership.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Reportedly, m I l repeatedly rather again on the park yesterday.
Scott barrett I saw him interestingly talking to Andre Piarti
before the game about a number of things, and then
during the game it felt like him and Mara were
told you were just chipping away and yapping both at
each other but also at and drat party, trying to
(27:24):
get decisions across the line. I think it's a natural
occurrence when the team's losing. To look at the leadership.
But you know Ardie Save is that in the next
cab off the rank. I don't think he had one
of his great Test matches yesterday either. But I would
say there is a bit of a leadership hole on
the team at the moment. And you look at the leaders.
You know, Cody Taylor, where you can argue with it
was a yellow card or not still put himself in
(27:46):
that position. It's a player that's played more than one
hundred Test Bote and Barrett didn't have a great Test match.
He's the most capped back of all time. You know,
you can single out a few others as well. But yeah,
but I would say the leaders aren't probably where they
need to be in this team currently.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah. I guess in that match in particular, there's not
your senior figures aren't stepping up necessary. Peter Luckey, I
think was the All Black's best performer carried. I think
he made twenty odd carries. He was highly involved and
he's twenty two years old. But look, I think when
we talk about the coaching and that starts at the top,
(28:24):
the captain has to be questioned as well. And it's
a perennial question with Scott Barrett because he was probably
a reluctant All Blacks captain. He's got that relationship with Razor.
But those on field decisions, you know that we've touched
on already, do make you question things.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Let's move on to Dylan's feedback on social media as well.
Thanks Dylan is always I can't which order these messages
came in too to read them. The defense is not
being asked questions at all. On attack, it's all just
individual brilliance, not playing flat to the line that looks disorganized,
with numbers not learning into shape. This is the worst
All Blacks attack I've seen in the last twenty years.
(29:06):
It's part one agreed, Yeah, Part two Scott Hansen needs
we moved on as well. There are zero creativity and attack,
no speed of ball, no fixing defenders, three on two skills,
decoy runners, lazy and static. What's the deal with the
reluctance to get the big body smashing around the corner.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, we touched on that the attack quite a bit.
But I agree that the All Blacks, well, their attack
is very very stagnant, and that's that shuffling. But it's
also we talked about this. I think on the last
part about it being highly predictable. Those backdoor plays. Every
team knows that's coming and the All Blacks aren't getting
(29:42):
enough go for momentum generally before they go wide. They did.
There was one set piece move from a scrum where
Boden Bart put Wall Jordan on the outside and then
I think fighting a nook who scored in the corner.
So that's pretty much the only nice attacking creative movement
(30:04):
that I can remember from the All Blacks in that match.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well, you look at the way Scotland attack last week
against the All Blacks. You look at the way that
England attacked and they use big ball runners and they
get over the advantage line. The All Blacks scene reluctant
to do that, and then they get into a funk
of playing static across the middle of the park and
they come from a standing start. As well, it appears
(30:28):
more often than not whereas it feels like there's always
bodies in motion, from the way that England attacked yesterday,
they were South Africa attacked Scotland as well Argentina, it
feels like there's always bodies in motion. Where it feels
like the All Blacks just aren't playing that kind of
rugby at the moment. Any thoughts, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I would like to see them just be more direct
now and then you'll get a pick and go, but
I can. I think they can get a lot more
pay out of that, and that's where I feel guy
like Wallace to tt Is Poles apart from Assimon Parker
in terms of what he offers were ball in hands
and I think park Is probably stronger defensively, but Bill
(31:10):
Blacks need to be harnessing those ball runners. And as
evolved as Lucky was England's rush defense, their tag team
tacklers were very good at shutting the All Blacks down
and also slowing their breakdown. They got over the ball.
They had a number of open sides on the park
throughout their loose Traio Marrow ToJ as well, So I
(31:31):
think they won the contact, they won the collisions, and
they Harry Deil Blacks at the breakdown as well.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
They did. You mentioned cam royguard before. I agree, and
it didn't help the quotes right and played two minutes
of rage in the last two weeks understandably as well.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
But I think I saw a stat from Jamie wall
maybe eleven minutes and six weeks or something like that.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And there's some stat like regards well until yesterday, the
only loss had had I think was France last year
under Scott Robertson. And you know he goes off with
what half an hour ago roughly, and they sell Blacks
are behind at that point. Who knows reguards out there,
but you do notice that you do notice that I
can get ten to twenty meters more with his kicks
than courtiz rights. So they don't team to have a
(32:14):
lot of faith with them, and then they are exposed
yesterday when they had to to bring them on. So
there are there are a lot of issues.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
You can't you can't rely on one guy can't exactly
as influential as he is and as he will continue
to be. It can't be all on a show.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
But at this point, how vitally is now to these
ten the team's hopes. So you think about when he's
injured earlier in the year and how they responded to that. Right,
we'll take a break, come back, let's talk about the
composition of the team to play Wales this week, what
we think it might be, and also wrap up the
rest of the weekend here on Ragby Direct power they
use You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Exis Solutions.
(32:56):
It's park England for the time being. And let's talk
about Wales in Cardiff, which is we were at well,
that's right, you can at Liam Napier indeed, any critiques
of that of the Welsh accent? What do they do
this weekend? We saw the end of year last year.
(33:16):
Now Wales managed to speak Japan yesterday. But this is
a test that All Black should win. And do I
say that should win? Well, how did they approach this
Test match? Because last year they kept too many bodies
going right to the end of the season. This year
that coming off a loss, they can't win a Grand Slam.
Do they be a little bit more inventive? What was
(33:38):
you're feeling on a Sunday afternoon as to which way
your Blacks will go?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I suspect it will be wholesale changes. I think there
was an element I'm not making excuses for them, but
and the elements of that performance last week of the
All Blacks being a gassed yep, from the previous week
at Murrayfield, from the year England steamrolled them, and elements
of that game. So there's a number of injuries. I
(34:04):
don't think we'll see bon and Barretts, cam Roy guards
through injury. I think it'll be almost car Blanche a
whole new team. I think you'll see McKenzie at ten,
Ruben Love at fullback. Sevu will come onto the wing,
Riquewani will start somewhere. You'd have to play all the
(34:27):
guys that haven't featured. Cortes Latma probably starts, with Filet
Christie on the bench, and there's a number of others
you know, do see Carrefi probably starts. You can go
through all the players that we haven't seen, really have
seen a.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Lot because it's been a fairly predictable bar a change
here the team what.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I sort of touched on the back line largely there.
What about the full pack, what do they do there?
Just that replacement front row start.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
They'll probably move them into start and then maybe a
debut for Tavita Muffalo potentially off the bench, George Bell
off the bench as well. You'd think locks wise will
be interesting in Fabian Hains out at Yesterday's had a
big workload. I don't really see the value in him
playing necessarily, so maybe Sam Dar Darry starts alongside Josh Lord.
(35:17):
Josh Lord, who's you lose for Tree? You ran through
with them? But then do you Scott Barrett didn't play
the last two weeks essentially, so does Scott Barrett play.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And he's got most of the Super Rugby season off.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, so he had one last season before having a
bit of a break.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Potentially. Yeah, I think you'll see do see at seven,
maybe Wallace start at six, six or eight lucky again potentially, Look,
Jacobson's gone home. Christian Leo where it could be on
the bench somewhere he's I saw him he was still
(35:55):
at Twickenham with that team. So yeah, I think it'll
be wholesale changes and that will probably make for it'll
be challenging because there won't be established combinations and any
time you make but that vast number of changes, you
tend to get a dip in performance. We saw it.
(36:16):
The last time we really saw it was in Hamilton
in the third Test against France.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Is there a risk, yeah, if they changed too much
that it could all become a little bit shambollic.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, potentially, But you have to give these guys s
game time. And because of the way that the season's
panned out. This is the only real chance Razor has
to do it, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Is there any chance that they put Ruben Love into.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Ten not to start. He might come in there in
the back end of the match, but I think Mackenzie
starts at ten and Ruben at full back.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Could he have him at ten and Mackenzie at fullback?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
You could, but I just can't see it. They haven't
played him at all at ten, not even at the
back end of a match, so that to me suggests
a lack of faith despite all the public messaging. I
just can't see them throwing him in to start at ten.
But it could be wrong.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
It feels like, yeah, it's hard to know how to
feels like this is a bronze middle match now for
the All Blacks. Feels like a World Cup. Funnily enough
twenty nineteen when they lost to England in the semi
final then had to play Wales for the bronze before
going home. It feels like this week's a bronze middle
match when the Grand Slam's not on the line, but
you still need to get a win out of it.
(37:25):
Chance to bring in some players for some game time
to finish the year and they need to keep the
standards or make the standards high this week or else
it could be a very very long summer for this
All Blacks team.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Here we travel by train today from London to Cardiff.
Is quite a long old trip, but the All Blacks
are busting and I suspect that would have been a
fairly some somber old trip and it will be difficult
to pick themselves up after blowing the Grand Slam, having
such a deflating loss to England at Twickenham, so making
(38:04):
those changes and bringing in some fresh legs as one
way to pretend shoually counted that right.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Quick wrap up of some of the other games across
the weekend, we saw Ireland's comfortably account for Australia, who
were in the match for a little bit but then
faded pretty badly late and proceeding speaking of late fades,
Scotland from twenty one the up as we're recording this
podcast done and have lost thirty three twenty four to
(38:29):
Argentina rather stagorc seeds in the Arabian rig studio that
have been playing out while we've been recording this, and
South Africa against Italy was a bizarre old match. At
times we had Franco Moster recarded for a tackle that
did not appear to be recard for mere look shouldered
to chest if anything. And again more issues with the
(38:51):
TMO and the interference there. And these autumn games where
the referees seem to have just decided to lose the
plot again. Feels like we're back to twenty twenty three.
Seems like they cleaned up a little bit earlier in
the year, they have now just gone backwards. I don't
know why the foul player review officer can't shady fully
car full redcard. Excuse me, but enough on that. Yes,
(39:12):
Africa it's too good forly in the end. And Wales
the all black Sneks opponent beating Japan. So what stood
out from those games for you, Lamb.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Well, let's touch on Wales because that's relevant, isn't it.
They very nearly lost to Japan at home and Cardiff,
and that pretty much sums up where the Welsh are
at at the moments. They they kicked a penalty, didn't
they basically on full time to win it. And that
was a real topsy turvy match, Japan scoring Whales scoring.
(39:47):
So I guess that just puts in context where they
are at and the expectations around the All Blacks this week.
Also just to note, the All Blacks fifteen completed the
unbeaten tour forty five twenty one over Uruguay, So a
successful tour there for Jamie Joseph Side. I think it's
(40:08):
a good bounce back win for the Irish, wasn't it.
France struggled against Fiji and so afgot that was very
much their second string team. But to again for a
second week in a row overcome a red cards with
in this occasion your second string team really does speak
to their depth, their character and I think just how
(40:33):
far ahead they are at the moment of everyone it is.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, I mean it's two years after a World Cup
and things can change, but there's no doubt they're the
best team in the world right now, and I think
there's a bit of distance between them and maybe England. Yeah,
and a lot of things can change over two years,
you know. The All Blacks and twenty seventeen began to
go backwards a little bit two years out from a
(40:57):
World Cup set. I've hit of that junction now where
things started to go backwards a little bit for the
All Blacks, but it's hard to see them having a
drop off enough, you know, ahead of the World Cup.
I think they'll go in his favorites again two years
out from the next event.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's hard to see that changing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
It is Scotland's tough old evening for them.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
It's a really bad loss for Scotland. Twenty one kneel
up after what happened last week. They really needed to
respond and just say hey, we can take yourself and scalp.
You know, there's a bit about us. We can finish,
we can close out a match and I've done a
complete opposite.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Well, when you came in, I was like Argentine's having
one of those days. You know, one of those times
where you know the performance of Argentina are capable of
when they're at their very best, but you also know
when they're at there worse they can turn in games
and basically just not turn up. Well. Appeared like it
was one of those days. Then Switch gets flipped, some
good impact from the bench and they go off and
(42:02):
Scotland at Murrayfield and now gregat town's end. I think
they got Tonga next weekend to wrap up this window.
It's now been a less than fruitful window for Gregor
from what it could have been, you know, ten minutes
from full time last week.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
For all their promise and enterprise, and they've got some
great talents in that squad, they don't have a lot
to show for it. Argentina go on to play England,
that twick and them, so that'll.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Be interesting, fascinating.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Metionis Sunday, Sunday our local time, yes, Monday morning, New
Zealand time.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, it will be fascinating, as will the week here
in Cardiff.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Watch them flooding from the valas.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Again Nat Liam maybe for critiques on that Welsh extent.
Thanks to Excess Solutions as always for supporting this podcast,
larst and Bars English, you're putting it together. Will be
back once the All Blacks team to play Wales is
revealed later in the week. How close did we get
with those predictions? We will see you then, every try,
try ten sixty second, every tackle tackle get up again.
(43:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Before harm night it's Rumpy dig Ladies talks For more
from Newstalk st B. Listen live on air or online
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our podcasts on iHeartRadio,
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions, celebrating twenty
five years in business. Let's get into it, Liam, don't
waste any time. Give us your thoughts. All Blacks and
England's the All Blacks third loss of the year. The
people want to know what you think.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It was a fairly dark day at Twickenham, wasn't it.
Elliott's Look for me, this wasn't unexpected. I thought England
would win and just on the basis of what we've
seen in recent times from the All Blacks. Look, if
we deal with the game first and foremost, England came
(01:02):
out of the blocks and threw everything at the All Blacks.
They did well to whether an early storm, scored two good,
were up twelve nil. I thought their line out was
really good. They got I think three steals in the
first half, but there wasn't a lot else that went right.
There was some really poor instances when Boden Barrett's and
(01:23):
I'm pretty sure it was Cam Roygard's on the second occasion,
which most people have actually missed. Roygard missed touch, so
twice the All Blacksmiths touch from penalties. Some of their
high ballwork allowed England to come back into the game
a couple of George Ford drop goals, and it's even
at that point it started to feel like the momentum
(01:45):
had turned. And then we had another third quarter fade,
the yellow card from Cody Taylor, which I reckon was harsh,
but you could argue it was cynical and England just
steamrolled the All Blacks from there. They had one tried
denied because of an offside from the line outs, and
concerning that the nature of those tries I think was
(02:07):
a Fraser ding wall that was just all too easy
waltzing through the All Blacks defense. Look credit to England.
They they performed really well. That They've got a number
of different different assets to their game, big strong, full pack.
You know, their DNA around the set piece, George Ford
was hugely influential. But there's some major, major concerns for
(02:31):
the All Black team and unless there's some major changes,
I also don't see them improving the only context to
that is they can touch on it a little bit
later when you give us your thoughts. But just around
the players that are missing from that I guess first
choice twenty three through injury.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah there are. But the All Blacks have always prided
themselves on having that next man up mentality and you know,
believing that players can create an opportunity if they were
to take it. But I thought this was a really
poor performance from the All Blacks. I you know, I
packed them last week. I thought they were going to
win by six, so I thought they had it in
(03:09):
them two beat what is a good and improving England side.
And you've got to give them their flowers because they
were very, very good and perhaps not as limited as
many thought they might be. With George Ford at ten.
In fact, he was the man for the occasion. He
stood up beautifully, I thought, while deserving. I was mad
at the match Crown, but from an All Blacks perspective,
that was some of the silliest rugby I've seen this
(03:32):
team play ever. And we'll focus on the All Blacks.
You know, England, we've given them their credit. But this
is a New Zealand Rugby podcast, so let's teak. We
dig into this All Blacks performance, but you touched on it.
Their missing touch twice is unforgivable, and you could argue
the twelve mil lead came almost against the run of
player a little bit. England dominated the early exchanges. Bill
(03:54):
Black's got their first opportunity. We're down at the in
the field and all of a sudden they were twelve
mi no ol up. But there doesn't seem to be
any realization on how to build pressure. And you know,
twelve and a up. Yes, England's score again relative soon
after that, and the momentum swings back to England, but
there's no trying to bank three more points. And you
(04:15):
look at the England mindset went from twelve to five
down in the four or five minutes will half time
to being twelve to eleven behind, and they swung the
momentum the All Blacks twelve miller up. You know, if
you get to fifteen, n'il start building a few more opportunities. Now,
they didn't keep hold of the ball well enough and
consolidate those points scoring opportunities well enough, and that left
them wide open and vulnerable. So when England scored and
(04:37):
England managed to keep scoring and keep that school board
pressure going on. It's a real thing. And that's what
All Blacks teams used to be able to do really well,
was keep that school board pressure tacking over it. This
current team doesn't seem to know how to do it.
And they were probably lucky to only lose thirty three
to nineteen because that trial binils you mentioned would have
blinded out with still about twenty five minutes ago. It
(04:59):
was already hard to see the All Blacks coming back
from that point. Just a really, really poor performance from
the All Blacks. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
One of the big concers for me is if you
look at the second half in particular, some of the
just seem bereft of ideas. On attack. They don't know
how to get go forward, they don't know how to
create space. They're waiting on individual brilliants to get them
out of trouble. They're really static, and what are they
(05:29):
doing from an attack?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
At point it seemed to play like a team on attack.
You're right that they're try and wait for that individual
moment to spark an attack and get them on the
front foot and get them going. Otherwise they go very lateral.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
It's all flat footed shuffling across the line waiting for
somebody to break attack or offload rather than trying to
set something up.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We saw in the first time and I think they
did as well, was when they sort of sucked all
the England defenders into the middle of the park and
then that created the opportunities for faying on Noku and
Cody Taylor on that left edge. But that's a good
trick to use twice. But then when you got the
ball back and trying to build pressure, it seemed like
they were waiting for England to basically give up a
penalty also then have an idea of what to do,
(06:11):
how to strike from meters fifty to twenty two. Just yeah,
that the attacking shape is non existent, I have to
say at the moment, and that may sound harsh, but
it just feels like there's not enough there to go. Yep,
bets and all Blacks attack. We know the way that
they want to play, we know this is the style
of All Blacks rugby. It doesn't seem to be any
(06:32):
style at the moment.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
No, so attack is one major concern. And then okay,
so who's responsible for the attack where you've got your
game drivers? First and foremost guys like Boden Barrett, Will
Jordan cam Rogal when he was on the pitch, but
from a coaching perspective, it's Scott Hansen and so I
think there needs to be some real questions asked about
(06:55):
what's happening with the All Black attack and why it's
not working and it hasn't been working this year. You've
got Jason Holland leaving at the end of the year.
He's a strike coach. I don't know how much say
he's actually had over that, so that's one issue. I
think the All Blacks kicked really poorly as well. Boden
Barrack I think he got one fifty twenty two. Cam
(07:16):
Roygal was hugely influential from the base, raking clearance kicks,
saving the All Blacks on a number of occasions, but
after he went off, I can't really remember the All
Blacks turning England around. Boden Barrack had a dinky little
chip for Ardie Severe. He's not the right guy to
be putting in a chip for that should be Will Jordan.
(07:36):
I'm not sure if that was a mix up of
some description, but they were supremely outplayed from a tactical
kicking point of view, and then tactically some just bizarre decisions,
not replacing a loose ford with the hooker until later
(08:00):
when Cody Taylor went off taking a tap kick rather
than kicking a goal.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And then well you to this touch on that because
when they took the tapy go, that's bizarre. But okay,
maybe there's a strike play or something set here that
they have practiced for on the training field. No, two
phases later, they just bombed it downfield.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Just an aimless kick in the air. They're never going
to get back. And you were just sitting there baffled, like,
what was the point in that? Who made that decision
and why? So tactically, on field, decision making, leadership, attack,
all these things are in the spotlight.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
They have to be. And you know, the All Black
scored nineteen points yesterday. They scored how many in the
second spell last week? Eight points. We can talk about
the second third quarter fades and it is a big
part of the game, but it wasn't the sole reason
they lost yesterday. Yes, they went in with a halftime
lead and that evaporated pretty quickly, but minutes one to
(08:58):
forty were also an issue. And so we're minutes sixty
to eighty. It just so happened that they considered the
first penalty of the game was yellow card. Cody Taylor
goes off, and they tried something different, used to try
to go out on the field three or four minutes
earlier and warm themselves back up after halftime. That didn't
work in the slightest. So it looks like a team
(09:21):
that are playing like individuals rather than a team at
the moment, and symptomatic of some of their losses this year,
the one in Argentina, the one in Wellington against South Africa,
as well as that these losses are coming in similar
fashion and teams are knowing how to beat the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Well, it's a common theme and it's been building. This
result has been building because the inconsistencies within games have
been there and in many ways results are papered over
the cracks. So, yep, the All Blacks finished brilliantly in
Chicago three tries. Credit for that twenty minute period where
everything clicked and then but for sixty minutes pretty poor.
(10:00):
The following week, Damien McKenzie saves their blushes after blowing
a seventeen point leads so those massive swings within games
that inconce instancies. This isn't a new theme. It's a
common thing that's very evident week to week, and they're
not solving it.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It is. And look previous All Black sides, the great
All Black sides, would have these sort of games where
they did need to find themselves out of trouble.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
But you're never going to have everything your own way, right, No.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
But if you have one of those games in a while,
that's understandable when you are basically having those week to
week and not being able to dominate the way that
All Blacks teams are expected to do and play the
way that all Blacks teams are expected to do. You know,
you look at the two teams yesterday and it was
England who bullied the All Blacks. Now, the All Blacks
(10:43):
have built their brand on being the you know, the
sharpest team in world rugby, having those attacking instincts, scoring
when you know it looked impossible by and large, apart
from that to Tripeia in the first Belt, it was
England who made the attack look easy rather than the
All Blacks. And I think it's a really worrying sign.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
It is, and I just want to I guess look
briefly on the other side of the fence for what
this one means for England. Right, So, first win at Twicken'
them over the All Blacks in thirteen years, first win
over the All Blacks in five years. It's there. It
was the second largest and the second most points I've
ever scored against the All Blacks. They've now won ten
(11:24):
games in a row and they are building. I mentioned
pre match that they have much more strength and depth
than Ireland and Scotland did. I think that that's very
evident by their bench. They are building some real momentum
and to paint the picture of these two teams, because
it really was going to color the complexion of both
(11:45):
side seasons. If you look back to last year England
have England lost three tight games to the All Blacks.
Last year they have improved significantly, I would argue the
All Blacks haven't. And they're basically are they exactly where
they are.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
They could be. They're pretty much stagnant from last year.
I mean, they've changed a few players and probably got
more selection, is right, but they feel like they have
a year on year. No, probably haven't improved and it
feels like to an extent, we're back in those days
of twenty twenty two where the All Blacks attack was
(12:23):
non existent. This is the Irish series in twenty twenty
two where yet they had a good game at Eton
Park when when things were changed and a few coaches
were out through COVID, but otherwise the attacking ship was
all over the show. They didn't know the way that
wanted to play and that force change and the All
Blacks set up. So I think, you know, people will say, oh,
(12:44):
you know, the one Island, the one Scotland, but I
think this was always going to be the one that
this tour was judged on if they got through the
first Yeah, the.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Whole theme of this tour was conquering the Kingdom winning
the Grand Slam.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And they were the ones that you know, said that
they wanted to do the Grand Slam and join the
other teams in history that had done so. So let's
park the attack for the moment. The defeat was also poor. Yesterday,
Leroy Carter was run over by Oli Lawrence for England's
first try. Fraser ding will slice through a gap in
(13:18):
the middle of the park that you know shouldn't have
been there as well. Work moved from England. But again
basics from the All Blacks go missing when they're under
pressure underhill scores close to the line. They were batted
there defensively wise, you know, again this falls under a
little bit of Scott Hansen's remit, but also Tomo d Allison.
We're not seeing the All Blacks defense with those renowned
(13:43):
you know, you know, turning defense into attack moments or
even just being able to defend your line that we
have come to correspond with this team over a number
of years.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, the All Blacks were brilliant defensively last week in Edinburgh,
they say, multiple tries on their line. It was really
heroic stuff. But you can't do that every week. And
a team like England, big physical pack, all the momentum
eighty one thousand p there, it's incredibly difficult to stop
(14:12):
and so some of those tries were really soft. But
you can't put yourself under that sort of pressure. You
need to put yourself in the right area of the field.
You need to build momentum in other ways. So, I
mean we've touched on a little bit. Let's really dull
into this coaching team. Where are they at I've got
(14:33):
real doubts about whether raises the guy right now and
if he is going to improve this team. I'm adamant
he needs to make changes to his coaching team.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, there is nothing on the basis of the last
two years that would seduce that they are a team
capable of winning the twenty twenty seven World Cup as
it stands now. Things can change a lot in two years,
but you can only go on the evidence that you've
been given to this point. And while the All Blacks
are supposedly ranked second in the world, and I'm not
sure how the rank of the loss use today changes.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
It, they'll stay at second, But for me, the probably
fourth behind South Africa, England and probably France.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And those maybe apart from France and look like our
team on the rise. Ireland don't know. I don't really
take a lot out of that when over Australia yesterday.
We'll talk about that a bit later, but it feels
like two years in we're not seeing the evidence that
this team is building towards the twenty twenty seven will cut.
There have been fits and starts and moments here and there,
and you know, you wonder whether they've turned a corner. Well,
(15:35):
it feels like yesterday they went back around the corner
and at a rate of knots. And you don't want
to view in isolation too much. And I think that's
why looking at a big picture is.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
It not about being knee jerk either, because the signs
that a result like this has been coming.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, well we had a result like this in September
in Wellington, and then they went and beat Australia, who
are on the come down of that line series and
beating the spring Boks. Then they go up again and
beat Ireland in Chicago and then beat Scotland. But again
I go back to this point, You're halfway point for
the World Cup. Where's this team at? And it's hard
(16:13):
to mount an argument that they could win a quarter final,
a semi final and a final consecutively, backing up week
to week. So I think there has to be concerns
about the coaching team.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah. So for me, there's a couple of things that
need to happen. My understanding is Robertson, Scott Hansen and
Jason rowan a very very tight click and they don't
necessarily share information. Well they select the team. I think
that needs to be challenged. I think they didn't have
(16:43):
attack coach. That seems very evident. And with Jason Holland leaving,
I think Scott Robinson said he didn't plan to replace them. Well,
I think New Zealand Rugby at the end of this year,
with all due respect to Wales, the result of this
week in's fiction, unless you all Becks lose, is not like,
is not going to alter where things are at Bill
(17:06):
Becks will make changes and they should win, but it's
not going to change the complexion. So I think New
Zealand Rugby needs to have a real hands on look
and have a say in that coaching team, and there
needs to be some real pointed feedback around that because
sitting idle is not an option because on the horizon
(17:28):
is that that tour to South Africa and that is
going to be incredibly torrid. The Springboks are getting further
ahead of everyone and if you don't make change now,
that could go really bad.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Well, you don't want to look back in a year
and go gee, I wish would change something then, because
now we're stuck with X Y Z it or stuck
in this pattern.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
There was also always concern around this coaching team about
the lack of international experience, and I think that's probably
been born out the other The other thing which we
think we know is that you know, Razer doesn't do
a lot of hands on coaching, and Scott Hansen is
his right hand man, has a lot of say in
(18:11):
a lot of things with that big tactics. Yeah, look,
that dynamics pretty interesting in itself.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
That's from the outside and you can do what you
want when you're winning. And if that's the system that
works for you when and you're putting results on the board,
then have at it. Because you know, so has had
a director of rugby with Russi and Jacques Ederberger was
coaching for the last four years. Every team and nation
have their own quirks. And if that's the system that
you want to go with and it works for you, great,
(18:37):
If it works. When it doesn't work, that's when it
invites questions. And I think I said on the podcast
a couple of weeks ago around the division of labor
in this coaching cawnp it feels like a lot is
on a few shoulders, but also lots on you know,
really phrase that lots on a few shoulders, But is
it too much on one pair of shoulders and not
enough on the next pair of shoulder if you get
(18:58):
my drift, and I think it.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Needs to be clear directives around who's doing what.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That's right and I would suggest that when you are
struggling to get results like this All Blacks team is
at the moment three losses this year for last year,
then you go back to basics. You go back to
a head coach at a tech coach, a defense coach,
and you know you can have your micro coroaches like
a scrum coach, et cetera behind that. You can't sort
(19:26):
of have a system like this where the division of
labor is unclear when you're not getting results. I think
that's my opinion on it.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, and look, coaches live and die by results. But
it's also the way, the manner in which you win,
the manner in which you lose. The spring box defeat.
This defeats the big swings and blowouts and consistencies that
says something's not right and something's not working and something
needs to be done about that because if you don't,
it festers and it will get worse.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
That's right, and look, this All Blacks brand relies on
them winning, And so that also goes and feeds into
those questions, is that you know, they sell this brand
and go around the Globe and the Bean to Chicago,
and with a little bit of help from the Irish
population in Chicago and Ireland themselves, they go through and
build this around the globe that they had a lot
(20:16):
of sponsor events last week in London. Again, that's built
on a history of winning. When you're not winning, even
for a season or two, and it starts drying up,
that's when the sponsors go, was this brand all that's
cracked up to be? So the All Blacks need to
be winning?
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yeah, they do. The only portal mate is you put
two po Vi Patrick two Polo to Tyre Alomax, Kay, Barrett, Jordi, Barrett,
Caleb Clark back in that team. And when Roygard plays
eighty minutes when he went off, that was incredibly telling.
The All Blacks downward spiral can be intrinsically linked to that.
(20:52):
It's a much better all Black team. But there's still
major question marks around who is the long term first
five who I think Leroy Carter's days are probably numbered
on the right wing, and I think there's still major
question marks about the blindside.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yep. Well, I don't think Simon Parker has put his
hand up yesterday. I thought it was the right decision
potentially to have him come off the bench. It was
too late for Walls as he did have impacted in
that game.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I would have started Wallace. I think they got that
selection wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, I agree in hindsight. Leroy Carter defensively was found
out yesterday. Hasn't had a number of attacking opportunities on
this tour. Chip and Chase woodwell yesterday on that one
occasion he did, but again it feels like he's struggling
to get involved in Test rugby at the moment. And
I will also look at this team and go they
(21:43):
were conservative and selection last year and I think that
is now hamstringing them this year because they're trying to
expose some players at Test level almost you know, and
the numbers that I think they had roughly about twenty
debutants in the last couple of years. But they were
conservative last year and basically probably didn't expand as much
(22:05):
as they should have in year one and stunted development.
And I think they're now playing from behind because you
could argue, as we touched on before that England and
now I headed them on a tractory and you're speaking
to a couple of England rugby riders. They reckon that
the All Blacks. Sorry that England maybe six to twelve
months ahead of the All Blacks. I think they're taking
that leap over the Six Nations this year and beyond.
(22:27):
And I think the All Blacks now paying the price
of just being a little bit too conservative last year
around their selections.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, and you look, you can run the risk of
throwing young players in too early, but I think that
the All Blacks on the whole have been conservative. Fabian
Holland was another one who didn't play still because he
was sick. So Bill Black's basically had six of their
first choice twenty three out, so that's important context. Look
(22:54):
next year I want to see back into Super Rugby
all going well. I think guys like Dylan Pledger and
Caleb Tongueytowel needs to come into the squads. I think
it's very evident the drop from cam Roy guards. I
think they could use some real pace in the outsides.
(23:14):
Tongueytail not the Finnished product, but I think he deserves
to be on the spot over over a sevy Reese.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, over a severy rees. I mean, I'm not sure
his defense seeing him at EPC level is any better
than Leroy Carter's, and I think, you know, he can't
slip wing solely on defense, but I think it helps
and I'm not sure there's much of a boost there,
but I think if he has another good Super Rugby
campaign with the Hinders, then absolutely worthy of consideration. Yeah,
it leaves the All Blacks in a vulnerable position.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I think this raises something about seventy three percent. Seven
from my maths isn't great, but seven from twenty six
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, they've played fourteen last year. They've played twelve year
in twenty six.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Years, even losses from twenty six.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It's not a great record. And there was a lot
of expectation on Scott Robertson when he came into the
job that you know things were going to change and
the All Blacks are going to play a little differently.
The bizarre thing is that they're not playing like they did.
His game plan at the Crusaders. You think about the
way they played the Crusaders is very full dominated and
Yusus she had Will Jordan popping up in Sevy recent
(24:20):
those sort of things, and Richie Wonger pulling the strings.
But they're not playing like that Crusader's team. So I'm
not sure what's being lost and you can't play like
you did at Super Rugby versus test Rake. But I'd
argue that the Crusader's products that they were game plan
that they were using is more akin to test Rugby
than whatever the All Blacks are you doing at the moment.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah, maybe I don't know if it necessarily.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
It may not translate, but you know it's a fure dominant.
You know, they think about how many times they'd bang
it into the corner. Sam Whitelock would be there, that
attack really well in the red zone, that finished those opportunities.
Things that count on defenses to break. We don't see
that at test rak B at the moment from the
All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
No, and some of the big things we're missing a
real ruthlessness, accuracy and taking your chances and just clear
decisive decision making in leadership that you know, there's some
real flaws around those things that will like you say,
we used to see those from previous All Black teams.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
They don't do enough with the ball. They're not being
driven around the park well enough. Now Bone Barrett had
an injury, a quad injury. Ues today. Did some good
things in the first twenty minutes, but it sort of
fell away a bit after that, and you look at
what George Fool was able to do and just slow
down the game a little bit even though they were behind.
Being a couple of drop goals over then increased the
(25:40):
intent of the after halftime.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, but if Boden's not right to the point that
Cam Roygard and Will Jordan are taking line kicks, do
you not replace them with Damian McKenzie. So yeah, yeah,
some strange, strange decisions.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
A couple of feedback moments already from our listeners on
social media that I'm going to get to on Rugby Direct.
So this is from Floyd's regular listener who tweeted me, no,
Scott Robinson didn't get it right. Please spend time on
the next Rugby Direct discussing one Scott Robinson's long pattern
of long running pattern of poor selections. I think we've
(26:15):
touched on that two More importantly, something clearly isn't right
in camp. What is it? Do you have any response
on that.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Well, I think we've touched on what needs to change
from from a coaching team perspective, and I think it
does all start at the top.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
From the outside of their here like a happy camp
that's from the outside. We're not privy to all those
moments and the time we get with them, you know,
at the training paddock or at media conferences, So it's
hard to say, yeah, it seemed like a happy bunch, there'd.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Be, but there'd be a lot of tension there this week.
I think players like Ricowani would be very muffed about
not being picked. I think there's divisions in every team,
so you're going to have players passed off about not
being selected in any team right leadership.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Reportedly, m I l repeatedly rather again on the park yesterday.
Scott barrett I saw him interestingly talking to Andre Piarti
before the game about a number of things, and then
during the game it felt like him and Mara were
told you were just chipping away and yapping both at
each other but also at and drat party, trying to
(27:24):
get decisions across the line. I think it's a natural
occurrence when the team's losing. To look at the leadership.
But you know Ardie Save is that in the next
cab off the rank. I don't think he had one
of his great Test matches yesterday either. But I would
say there is a bit of a leadership hole on
the team at the moment. And you look at the leaders.
You know, Cody Taylor, where you can argue with it
was a yellow card or not still put himself in
(27:46):
that position. It's a player that's played more than one
hundred Test Bote and Barrett didn't have a great Test match.
He's the most capped back of all time. You know,
you can single out a few others as well. But yeah,
but I would say the leaders aren't probably where they
need to be in this team currently.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah. I guess in that match in particular, there's not
your senior figures aren't stepping up necessary. Peter Luckey, I
think was the All Black's best performer carried. I think
he made twenty odd carries. He was highly involved and
he's twenty two years old. But look, I think when
we talk about the coaching and that starts at the top,
(28:24):
the captain has to be questioned as well. And it's
a perennial question with Scott Barrett because he was probably
a reluctant All Blacks captain. He's got that relationship with Razor.
But those on field decisions, you know that we've touched
on already, do make you question things.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Let's move on to Dylan's feedback on social media as well.
Thanks Dylan is always I can't which order these messages
came in too to read them. The defense is not
being asked questions at all. On attack, it's all just
individual brilliance, not playing flat to the line that looks disorganized,
with numbers not learning into shape. This is the worst
All Blacks attack I've seen in the last twenty years.
(29:06):
It's part one agreed, Yeah, Part two Scott Hansen needs
we moved on as well. There are zero creativity and attack,
no speed of ball, no fixing defenders, three on two skills,
decoy runners, lazy and static. What's the deal with the
reluctance to get the big body smashing around the corner.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, we touched on that the attack quite a bit.
But I agree that the All Blacks, well, their attack
is very very stagnant, and that's that shuffling. But it's
also we talked about this. I think on the last
part about it being highly predictable. Those backdoor plays. Every
team knows that's coming and the All Blacks aren't getting
(29:42):
enough go for momentum generally before they go wide. They did.
There was one set piece move from a scrum where
Boden Bart put Wall Jordan on the outside and then
I think fighting a nook who scored in the corner.
So that's pretty much the only nice attacking creative movement
(30:04):
that I can remember from the All Blacks in that match.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well, you look at the way Scotland attack last week
against the All Blacks. You look at the way that
England attacked and they use big ball runners and they
get over the advantage line. The All Blacks scene reluctant
to do that, and then they get into a funk
of playing static across the middle of the park and
they come from a standing start. As well, it appears
(30:28):
more often than not whereas it feels like there's always
bodies in motion, from the way that England attacked yesterday,
they were South Africa attacked Scotland as well Argentina, it
feels like there's always bodies in motion. Where it feels
like the All Blacks just aren't playing that kind of
rugby at the moment. Any thoughts, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I would like to see them just be more direct
now and then you'll get a pick and go, but
I can. I think they can get a lot more
pay out of that, and that's where I feel guy
like Wallace to tt Is Poles apart from Assimon Parker
in terms of what he offers were ball in hands
and I think park Is probably stronger defensively, but Bill
(31:10):
Blacks need to be harnessing those ball runners. And as
evolved as Lucky was England's rush defense, their tag team
tacklers were very good at shutting the All Blacks down
and also slowing their breakdown. They got over the ball.
They had a number of open sides on the park
throughout their loose Traio Marrow ToJ as well, So I
(31:31):
think they won the contact, they won the collisions, and
they Harry Deil Blacks at the breakdown as well.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
They did. You mentioned cam royguard before. I agree, and
it didn't help the quotes right and played two minutes
of rage in the last two weeks understandably as well.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
But I think I saw a stat from Jamie wall
maybe eleven minutes and six weeks or something like that.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And there's some stat like regards well until yesterday, the
only loss had had I think was France last year
under Scott Robertson. And you know he goes off with
what half an hour ago roughly, and they sell Blacks
are behind at that point. Who knows reguards out there,
but you do notice that you do notice that I
can get ten to twenty meters more with his kicks
than courtiz rights. So they don't team to have a
(32:14):
lot of faith with them, and then they are exposed
yesterday when they had to to bring them on. So
there are there are a lot of issues.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
You can't you can't rely on one guy can't exactly
as influential as he is and as he will continue
to be. It can't be all on a show.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
But at this point, how vitally is now to these
ten the team's hopes. So you think about when he's
injured earlier in the year and how they responded to that. Right,
we'll take a break, come back, let's talk about the
composition of the team to play Wales this week, what
we think it might be, and also wrap up the
rest of the weekend here on Ragby Direct power they
use You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Exis Solutions.
(32:56):
It's park England for the time being. And let's talk
about Wales in Cardiff, which is we were at well,
that's right, you can at Liam Napier indeed, any critiques
of that of the Welsh accent? What do they do
this weekend? We saw the end of year last year.
(33:16):
Now Wales managed to speak Japan yesterday. But this is
a test that All Black should win. And do I
say that should win? Well, how did they approach this
Test match? Because last year they kept too many bodies
going right to the end of the season. This year
that coming off a loss, they can't win a Grand Slam.
Do they be a little bit more inventive? What was
(33:38):
you're feeling on a Sunday afternoon as to which way
your Blacks will go?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I suspect it will be wholesale changes. I think there
was an element I'm not making excuses for them, but
and the elements of that performance last week of the
All Blacks being a gassed yep, from the previous week
at Murrayfield, from the year England steamrolled them, and elements
of that game. So there's a number of injuries. I
(34:04):
don't think we'll see bon and Barretts, cam Roy guards
through injury. I think it'll be almost car Blanche a
whole new team. I think you'll see McKenzie at ten,
Ruben Love at fullback. Sevu will come onto the wing,
Riquewani will start somewhere. You'd have to play all the
(34:27):
guys that haven't featured. Cortes Latma probably starts, with Filet
Christie on the bench, and there's a number of others
you know, do see Carrefi probably starts. You can go
through all the players that we haven't seen, really have
seen a.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Lot because it's been a fairly predictable bar a change
here the team what.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I sort of touched on the back line largely there.
What about the full pack, what do they do there?
Just that replacement front row start.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
They'll probably move them into start and then maybe a
debut for Tavita Muffalo potentially off the bench, George Bell
off the bench as well. You'd think locks wise will
be interesting in Fabian Hains out at Yesterday's had a
big workload. I don't really see the value in him
playing necessarily, so maybe Sam Dar Darry starts alongside Josh Lord.
(35:17):
Josh Lord, who's you lose for Tree? You ran through
with them? But then do you Scott Barrett didn't play
the last two weeks essentially, so does Scott Barrett play.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And he's got most of the Super Rugby season off.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, so he had one last season before having a
bit of a break.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Potentially. Yeah, I think you'll see do see at seven,
maybe Wallace start at six, six or eight lucky again potentially, Look,
Jacobson's gone home. Christian Leo where it could be on
the bench somewhere he's I saw him he was still
(35:55):
at Twickenham with that team. So yeah, I think it'll
be wholesale changes and that will probably make for it'll
be challenging because there won't be established combinations and any
time you make but that vast number of changes, you
tend to get a dip in performance. We saw it.
(36:16):
The last time we really saw it was in Hamilton
in the third Test against France.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Is there a risk, yeah, if they changed too much
that it could all become a little bit shambollic.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, potentially, But you have to give these guys s
game time. And because of the way that the season's
panned out. This is the only real chance Razor has
to do it, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Is there any chance that they put Ruben Love into.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Ten not to start. He might come in there in
the back end of the match, but I think Mackenzie
starts at ten and Ruben at full back.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Could he have him at ten and Mackenzie at fullback?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
You could, but I just can't see it. They haven't
played him at all at ten, not even at the
back end of a match, so that to me suggests
a lack of faith despite all the public messaging. I
just can't see them throwing him in to start at ten.
But it could be wrong.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
It feels like, yeah, it's hard to know how to
feels like this is a bronze middle match now for
the All Blacks. Feels like a World Cup. Funnily enough
twenty nineteen when they lost to England in the semi
final then had to play Wales for the bronze before
going home. It feels like this week's a bronze middle
match when the Grand Slam's not on the line, but
you still need to get a win out of it.
(37:25):
Chance to bring in some players for some game time
to finish the year and they need to keep the
standards or make the standards high this week or else
it could be a very very long summer for this
All Blacks team.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Here we travel by train today from London to Cardiff.
Is quite a long old trip, but the All Blacks
are busting and I suspect that would have been a
fairly some somber old trip and it will be difficult
to pick themselves up after blowing the Grand Slam, having
such a deflating loss to England at Twickenham, so making
(38:04):
those changes and bringing in some fresh legs as one
way to pretend shoually counted that right.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Quick wrap up of some of the other games across
the weekend, we saw Ireland's comfortably account for Australia, who
were in the match for a little bit but then
faded pretty badly late and proceeding speaking of late fades,
Scotland from twenty one the up as we're recording this
podcast done and have lost thirty three twenty four to
(38:29):
Argentina rather stagorc seeds in the Arabian rig studio that
have been playing out while we've been recording this, and
South Africa against Italy was a bizarre old match. At
times we had Franco Moster recarded for a tackle that
did not appear to be recard for mere look shouldered
to chest if anything. And again more issues with the
(38:51):
TMO and the interference there. And these autumn games where
the referees seem to have just decided to lose the
plot again. Feels like we're back to twenty twenty three.
Seems like they cleaned up a little bit earlier in
the year, they have now just gone backwards. I don't
know why the foul player review officer can't shady fully
car full redcard. Excuse me, but enough on that. Yes,
(39:12):
Africa it's too good forly in the end. And Wales
the all black Sneks opponent beating Japan. So what stood
out from those games for you, Lamb.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Well, let's touch on Wales because that's relevant, isn't it.
They very nearly lost to Japan at home and Cardiff,
and that pretty much sums up where the Welsh are
at at the moments. They they kicked a penalty, didn't
they basically on full time to win it. And that
was a real topsy turvy match, Japan scoring Whales scoring.
(39:47):
So I guess that just puts in context where they
are at and the expectations around the All Blacks this week.
Also just to note, the All Blacks fifteen completed the
unbeaten tour forty five twenty one over Uruguay, So a
successful tour there for Jamie Joseph Side. I think it's
(40:08):
a good bounce back win for the Irish, wasn't it.
France struggled against Fiji and so afgot that was very
much their second string team. But to again for a
second week in a row overcome a red cards with
in this occasion your second string team really does speak
to their depth, their character and I think just how
(40:33):
far ahead they are at the moment of everyone it is.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, I mean it's two years after a World Cup
and things can change, but there's no doubt they're the
best team in the world right now, and I think
there's a bit of distance between them and maybe England. Yeah,
and a lot of things can change over two years,
you know. The All Blacks and twenty seventeen began to
go backwards a little bit two years out from a
(40:57):
World Cup set. I've hit of that junction now where
things started to go backwards a little bit for the
All Blacks, but it's hard to see them having a
drop off enough, you know, ahead of the World Cup.
I think they'll go in his favorites again two years
out from the next event.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's hard to see that changing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
It is Scotland's tough old evening for them.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
It's a really bad loss for Scotland. Twenty one kneel
up after what happened last week. They really needed to
respond and just say hey, we can take yourself and scalp.
You know, there's a bit about us. We can finish,
we can close out a match and I've done a
complete opposite.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Well, when you came in, I was like Argentine's having
one of those days. You know, one of those times
where you know the performance of Argentina are capable of
when they're at their very best, but you also know
when they're at there worse they can turn in games
and basically just not turn up. Well. Appeared like it
was one of those days. Then Switch gets flipped, some
good impact from the bench and they go off and
(42:02):
Scotland at Murrayfield and now gregat town's end. I think
they got Tonga next weekend to wrap up this window.
It's now been a less than fruitful window for Gregor
from what it could have been, you know, ten minutes
from full time last week.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
For all their promise and enterprise, and they've got some
great talents in that squad, they don't have a lot
to show for it. Argentina go on to play England,
that twick and them, so that'll.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Be interesting, fascinating.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Metionis Sunday, Sunday our local time, yes, Monday morning, New
Zealand time.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, it will be fascinating, as will the week here
in Cardiff.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Watch them flooding from the valas.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Again Nat Liam maybe for critiques on that Welsh extent.
Thanks to Excess Solutions as always for supporting this podcast,
larst and Bars English, you're putting it together. Will be
back once the All Blacks team to play Wales is
revealed later in the week. How close did we get
with those predictions? We will see you then, every try,
try ten sixty second, every tackle tackle get up again.
(43:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Before harm night it's Rumpy dig Ladies talks For more
from Newstalk st B. Listen live on air or online
and keep our shows with you wherever you go with
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