November 20, 2025 • 24 mins
On the latest Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier assess the All Blacks side named to face Wales and whether it's a missed opportunity on the selection front or if banking a win is the most important thing for Scott Robertson's men.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Straight
Down the Middle, Try Scot, Try Jacket, Inside the Game
(00:30):
from Every Angle. It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and
Liam Napiers powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions, celebrating twenty
five years in business. The final Rugby Directs on tour
of season twenty twenty five, coming of course from Cardiff.
As we count down to the All Blacks final match
of season twenty twenty five, they play well Sunday morning,
of course, and as we discussed earlier in the week
(00:59):
on the podcast, this game takes on a different complexion,
doesn't it lim As we build into this game, the
All Blacks could have been playing for a grand ultimately
weren't good enough, but now they've got to try and
finish the year on a high as best they can.
And as we have seen and I'm sure our listeners
have seen as well, much change lineup for the All
Blacks for this test. Was that ultimately what you were expecting.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I think this week, regardless of the result last week,
there were going to be mass changes went there, But
you're right, the complexion of those changes of the All
Black season of this week has completely altered. But I
don't know if the team has altered that score ups
and water put out drastically.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Not too sure. But as it stands thirteen.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Starting changes, Simon Parker and Scott Barrett are the only
two players in the same positions.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Will Jordan switches to the right wing.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
So a number of fringe players getting opportunities, and in
the most cases they're much needed, aren't they. You look
at guys like Rubin Love in particular. I was looking back.
I think he's played twenty three minutes for the All
Blacks with two brief bench appearances in four months, and
(02:16):
you just need exposure at that age twenty four. So
he's one guy that springs out and then Rikowani's back
to the back to the future recall at Censor is
quite curious.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Another big talking point.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It is, Yeah, let's get into the Ruben Love selection
first and foremost. You know, personally, I would have liked
to see him actually at ten this week. I don't
think there's a lot to lose for the All Blacks.
I mean, they could lose the match, I suppose, but
I think there's a lot more to gain by putting
Ruben Love at ten versus Damien McKinsey. We know we're
doing McKenzie and play ten to a very high level man.
(02:48):
He's played a number of Test matches this year, but
what his performance against Wales is not going to do
is convinced Scott Robertson to put him at ten in
twenty twenty six. Ruben Love, on the other hand, might
be able to do that or at least prove that
he can play ten at Test level. So I would
have flipped them around. I would have played Rubin Love
at ten Damian McKay fifteen. Scott Robinson's talked a lot
(03:10):
about this four four four project. Well, basically the all
Blacks are in the same position as they were at
the end of twenty twenty three, with the first five's
that have developed. Boden Barrett's saw there, Damien mackenzie still there, obviously,
Richid Moonger is coming back a middle of next year. Well,
they still don't have a fourth and we haven't seen
Rubin Love get any game time at ten. To me,
this felt like an opportunity to put him at ten
(03:31):
for this Test match and learned a little bit more
about him, and you could have the insurance policy of
McKenzie at fifteen if needed, in a bit of a
guiding hand. So to be honest, I think that is
a missed opportunity for the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well, what it does do is shape the public messaging
around Rubin Love as largely lip service, because the All
Blacks have said consistently throughout this year that they see
him as ten, that they were going to give him
game time there and that hasn't happened, not once.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
So do they actually believe that?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
And I agree with you in the sense that this
feels more like a selection to appeased Damien McKenzie to
a degree, you know, reassert the pecking in order and
give him some time at ten that he hasn't had
this year, rather than really grasp the development opportunity that
it could have been for Love. Now, Rubin Love can
play ten and fifteen, and I think he's one of
(04:26):
the better aerial exponents that the All Blacks do have
in that backfield. He has real conviction under the highball
when he goes up, a lot of confidence in that
and with time and space in the backfield, he can
be brilliant. He's good in both positions. But next year,
by all accounts, all signs appointing to him going back
and playing ten for the Hurricanes, and I believe that's
where it's long term futureize. I believe that's where he
(04:48):
should be playing. And I agree that this was a
great opportunity against a team that's really struggling twelve in
the world, so the All Blacks should beat them comfortably.
There's not a lot of risk, really, is there And
putting rub Belove at ten.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
No, there's not.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And you know, I still got the insurance policy of
McKenzie agains.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
He's there at fifteen, and you know, if he were
overly confident, you could have still played Bote and Barret
off the bench as well. As it happens they're taking
lestifying a Nuku and Sevi Reese onto the bench. We'll
get that to the other starting side shortly. But I
don't get that from a bench perspective for the All Blacks.
List can obviously cover midfield very well. He can also
cover the wing. Severest can only cover wing. I just
(05:28):
think I'm not sure what sever reesaids from being in
Jersey twenty three or twenty two. What everyone he's been
put in for this match. I don't get that selection,
especially when you've already got wing cover on the bench.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, I think Sevu Finlay Christie, those who guys in
particular are not going to be part of the Alburks
long term plans and so they feel like wasted opportunities, stagnation,
a lack of progression, insurance policies that perhaps don't need
to be there. We saw Seevo go back and play
(06:00):
one game for the All Blacks. Fifteen calib Tonguey Towel
came in and played. Sorry trained with the All Blacks.
You've got guys like Shaffi Hackey and Ammonia at an
Hour who will come back into the frame in a
big way next year. On the right wing. Those guys
to me are the future, not Sevi rees. So yeah,
(06:21):
it's giving a guy game time to appease him because
he's been on tour and hasn't appeared yet.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, I just don't see Sevris getting to the twenty
twenty seven World Cup. Now I get his on tour.
I don't think he should have be sicked in the
first place, and I think we had this discussion way
back when the squad was selected. You know, I wouldn't
be surprised if and I've got nothing to back this up,
by the way, but I would be surprised if sev
Rees plays one last season for the Crusaders then heads
off to an overseas deal.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I think that would probably be in his best entry.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
He's fallen way down the picking order. We started a
number of games this year for the All Blacks and
then was not wanted. I just don't see him, so
I don't get the point of that on the bench.
In fact, I would have probably gone with a six
to two, experimented a little bit. I think this was
the game to try and do it. You could have
loaded up with another loose forward. I know they've got
an end a few injuries there with Peter Luckey out
with carf Eshue, so they've got crushed Leo William there.
(07:09):
But maybe look at a Sex two and how you know,
we saw a bit of Leroy Carter there that are training,
actually taking a few reps at half back. It appeared,
you know, he's played their NPC level Sex two. Little
bit risky, yes, but I would like to see this
All Blacks team take a few more risks when it
comes to worth, the game plan and their selections.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, this was the game to do it right.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Not no disrespect to Wales, but no, but just given
where they're at. They beat Japan by one point last
week and so when the All Blacks played Japan, they'd
roll out a similar team. So you should be viewing
Wales in a similar light. What about Rico at center
Because the start of this year, Scott Robertson made the
(07:54):
call to break up that long established partnership that of
Jeordie Barrett and ricco one that had been the first
choice midfield basically for the best part of three years
for the All Blacks. He puts Rico on the wing,
he plays I think it's five tests on the wing,
then falls out of favor. Reco at the end of
this year, of course, is going for six months to
(08:15):
Irish club Leinster, following Jordi Barrett's footsteps, but having played
them all year on the wing a couple of matches
off the bench, he's now starting at center alongside another
veteran midfielder, Anton Lena Brown. It just feels like a
real state of flux, doesn't it that center position in particular.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well, again, the you know, could have gone with a
bit more adventure when they selected the squad. To me though,
it probably signals that they haven't found what they're looking
for at center this year. For the All Blacks, they
had Billy Proctor there for a number of test matches,
including who's returned there last week. It's not working with
(08:55):
Billy Proctor. He's got time and space at a test
level that he does not being afforded. Sorry, it's not
being for the team time and space. He gets a
super agulay level at test level. Would like to see
more from Jordi Barrat and quins a pie where you
only saw that in the one game. Really with Jordi
Baric going off early against Ireland the next test, it
(09:15):
was tried firing an Nooku into Pier and jury's out
For me, so feels like they've just gone a full
circle and ended up where they started or ended last
year and gone Actually, Rico, you might not be so
bad a center after all.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Well, what happens if Rico comes out this weekend plays
out of his skin. It doesn't necessarily need to score tries,
but he sets up a couple, makes a lot of
line breaks defense brilliantly. Is that a statement performance.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It's hard to know because, again, with all due respect
to Wales, the All Blacks are in a no win
situation this weekend. If they don't win well, you know
the the hounds will be circling. If they do win well,
they are expected to So it's no win and for
a lot of these players trying to make statements. Again,
you'll have the asterisk that Jarro SAT's only against the
(10:03):
twelfth best team in the world. But look, it could
be an opportunity for Rico. You won, his distribution always
been the question out of center. Defensively, he is very
very good if he is setting up his outsides, if
he's pulling the strings in that midfield position, then he
just does change a little bit and then he's going
obviously as you mentioned to Leinster, where potentially he gets
(10:26):
some more opportunities in midfield maybe or maybe he's on
the wing, but regardless, it probably leaves the year on
a pretty good note for Rico Yuani. So I think
he's got a bit to game this weekend potentially if things.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Go well, So it's an opportunity that he's been craving,
isn't it, and he needs to take it because lenks
there will be a different experience to be out of
his comfort zone. But he has been on the answer
and that's an interesting place for an eighty seven test
veteran to be. It's not normal. So yeah, he needs
(11:00):
a statement performance to say to Scott Robinson, I need
to remain in your thinking.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well, let's go move in one spot in Antonine Brown
because he is at second five this week. He's had
the odd injury here and there. He's also going on
sabbatical to Japan, so we won't see him in Super
Rugby next year.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
But there's a few of them. They aren't there because
Ardie Severe goes to Japan. Scott Barrett's gonna miss the
majority of Super Rugby actual sabbatical.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, yeah, so he's got a chance this weekend. Antony
let Brown, who's that personally, I think is an interesting
point in his career because I think the time to
nail a starting spot regularly for anton Lea Brown might
have passed him by now. So what does he still
bring to this all blacks environment? So I think it's
a big test for him this week too.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
It is because he's third choice second five, and who knows,
you've got so many different options at center, and the
vast majority of his tests, certainly in my memory, have
been off the bench in recent times because he can
cover second in center and not everyone can do that.
(12:08):
So look, I think if you cast their head to
next year, I think we probably will see. If you
think a first choice All Black midfield right now, you
would say Jordi Barrett at twelve and either Quintipyre or
Estifying a looker at thirteen, and one of those guys
probably sits on the bench. So as it stands, Lennard,
Brown and Awani aren't in that first choice twenty three picture.
(12:31):
How much of a stock can you put in a
performance against Wales? Not too sure, but you take your
chances where they are. I do really like that the
back three for the All Blacks Caleb Clark returns Love
at fullback and Jordan on the right wing. I think
Jordan on the right wing is still a very viable option.
He plays exceptionally well there for the All Blacks, always scores, try,
(12:54):
is always highly involved gets The roaming Commission hasn't been
great under the high ball. Maybe that takes a little
bit of pressure off him being on the wing as
opposed to fullback. So I do like that complexion. You've
got a one power wing. I like that element of
this team. It does feel like it should be a
viable option.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Good Bobby, absolutely, and you know it's going to be
interesting to see how Ruben Love adapts to that fullback
role because as you said, probably more of a ten
release will get game time at ten. So with a
down the track, he can still drop back to fifteen.
But that tends to be what New Zealanders in recent
times anyway, have that multiple skilled, multily faceted a ten
(13:34):
to fifteen ability to drop back we needed in team selections.
So yeah, I think it's a big opportunity for Ruben Love.
That have been few and far between for him this year.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
This is fourth appearance for the All Blacks basically in
two years.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, he got what came off the bench in Wellington
earlier in the year against South Africa in a game
that was dead and it's.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Not going to get any easier for him when Richie
Moarner comes.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
No, but what may happen is he may get a
lot of game time when we were casting him quite
significantly now But and the tour matches, the tour matches
next year, and that could be a chance for him
to really play some ten. But again what he you're
struggling to put your test claims forward when you're playing
against the balls of Stormers, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, they are opportunities though, like you say, two other
guys you spoke to Wallace the tit today I spoke
to Mighty Williams, two guys that haven't had the best
years compared to their their last seasons. Last year Wallace
was well breakthrough player of the Year last year All
Blacks Player of the Year to Mighty Williams finished the
(14:34):
year as the first choice lucid prop and as this year,
slipped back into a bench roll. So again in the
context of Wales, but important for those guys in a
starting role.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, I think with Wallace speaking to him today, I
think it's a realization, you know, an acceptance from him
that he hasn't been at the same level he was
at last year, but also feels that, you know, maybe
there's a bit of a target on his back, you know,
compared to you can't go under the radar like he
probably did last year, and you boost onto the scene
and it's you know, the defenses know what you're going
(15:06):
to bring and can prepare for the more accordingly. So yeah,
I think he's still getting his head around that, but
I think it's a big chance for him. He's sort
of flitted between bench rolls this year and blind side
and number eight, so big opportunity for him and obviously
to Mighty Williams as well. You know, it felt like that,
you know these Lucy Propp was at his will, was
(15:28):
at his feet into last year. We thinking of the
group taking a back seat. Well, feels like even De
Groot's got one back on him this year. So big
test for them. And also I just want to put
out Simon Parker, big test for him this week. He
hasn't really nailed that blind side role. He's played some
big Test matches and what I mean by that is
he hasn't had a soft landing when it comes to
(15:50):
Test matches. He started against Argentina and Buenos Aires, he
played South Africa, He's played right through this tour, so
he has had not Test matches where you can build
into it and get some soft landings against some lesser opponents.
Has been balls to the wall for Simon Parker, so
big Test match for him too.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, and I think it is important for the All
black Ford pack to really stamp their authority this weekend.
We had dinner last night with a BBC colleagues didn't
when and their view was this is one of the
weakest Welsh back rows in history and when you think
of previous iterations the Sam Warburton, Toby Foalatao Lydiot. Yeah,
they've had some great loose Fords in their time. So
(16:34):
for a guy like Simon Parker really is important that
he is physical on both sides of the ball and
really stamps as Mark christianly.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I will he gets chunks on the bench as well.
With Peter Luckye out with the carf injury as well,
I think we might have seen Peter Baby come off
the bench potentially if it wasn't for Christian Leo Willy
being ruled out. As you mentioned on Wales, what do
we expect from them, It's really hard to know whether
that went against Japan will boost their confidence. But they've
(17:02):
got New Zealand this week, they've got South Africa next week.
Could be a tough couple of weeks. And also they
don't have their foreign players will foreign bass players next
week because it's outside the international windows. So for some
Steve Tndy and co. It's a big test match.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Huge, that's a brutal tests scheduled to end the year.
The All Blacks are still ranked number two, so the
top two ranked teams in the world to finish the
year for a team that's really starting to starting at
the start line of their rebuild. New coach trying to
(17:39):
bring a team together. Look, I think Whales will be spirited,
They'll be competitive to a point, but any other result
but the All Blacks by twenty plus points would probably
be disappointed. Yeah, I think it would be Argentina put
fifty on them a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, and that's gonna be about benchmark and the comparison,
isn't it for this All Blacks performance this weekend? So
you can catch a live commentary course on News talk
Zbig Gold Sport and iHeartRadio of that game on four
am Sunday morning. You can also catch all the analysis
the metroports, et cetera from the New Zealand Herald website.
So before we wrap up Player of the Year nominee
(18:17):
World Rugby announced earlier in the week and almost in
all South African benefit Ox and chair their prop Malcolm
Marx and Peter sift Toy so three spring Box forwards
alongside the French winger Louis blbre So three out of
four am band for South Africa. Are you surprised be
(18:38):
any of those nominations them?
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Do you like them? But underwhelmed?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
To be honest, I think the spring Box fully deserving
of having three in there. But I think Peter stef
to Toy and Malcolm Marx have had better years in
recent years. I can't remember them necessarily having massive standout
performances consistently. I'm happy to see a prop on there
that they've been shafted over the years. Ox Niche is
(19:05):
the world's best scrummager, so I think it's nice to
see that recognition. But and I know that some of
these guys didn't necessarily play as much. But I think
Sasha Feinberg, he's been very influential for the spring Box.
I think Artie Severe has been very good when he's
captains the All Blacks cam Royguards. Even guys like Will
(19:27):
Skelton to a degree hasn't played enough, but those guys
rarely stand out in my mind in terms of having
huge influential impact.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
What about you, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I think you're right. It feels like sometimes the World
Rugby Awards are sort of suspended six to twelve months
late from some of the selections that they make. I
mean Ox and Jip absolutely, but I agree. I mean
Malcolm Marx sort of faded a little bit in the
middle of the year and then came back strongly on
(20:01):
the end of year tour. Peter Steff magnificent throughout his career,
but I'm not sure this has been his special or
he's really stood up. I agree about Sasha. If I'm
being Gonezula, I would have had him on the short
list for sure. I think there's other players, you know.
You look at a Jci Creole, for example, who his
career looked cooked a couple of years ago, come back
(20:22):
really strongly and playing some really good rugby. Tom Curry,
I thought he had a really good line series would
be in the mix for me. George Ford even Yeah,
so I think it's I think quite subscribe to. I mean,
I think three bocks well deserving of dominating the shortlist,
(20:43):
but I'm not sure that actually the right players in there,
but yeah, it's it is good to see the props rewarded.
Tiger Furlong probably had a claims a few years ago
to being in there.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
It was overlooked.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And so this is the thing for me with will
the Raby Awards is that, yeah, they've obviously looked overlook
props for twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
It's a year two late or too.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah. And then the breakthrough player of the year is
often only from sort of Tier one nations And I
get why to an extent, because you know, you break through,
you're going to get more attention, et cetera. But I'm
not sure he's entirely eligible. But the Japanese fallbacker is
not yet playing professional rugby, is still at university. I
think it's hisaki, very very good player. He is looks
(21:24):
like the goods at test level and one of the
better players in this current proper players. He would have
been worthy of inclusion for me, but not to be
skimmission to see where there will go. It is Fabian Holan's
up for it. Henry Pollock as well, Joseph Kauso so
elite in the mix, so it's gonna be fascinating to
(21:44):
see whereabouts it all lands alongside Ethan Hooker of South Africa.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, I think I like that collection of players. I
think they're all fully deserving. So Lee has had a
great year, but I think that wallaby Is have struggled
at the back end of the season. They'd be a
real ground swell around. Henry Pollock because of his character
as much as anything else.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
But hasn't played a lot of Test rugby.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Largely comes off the bench. So for me, Fabian ones
that hands down. He has come and not on it.
It's obviously his rookie year, but he's played eighty minutes
so often and made it look reasonably easy at times,
carried a heavy load for the All Blacks, and his
backstory about where he's come from and you know, the
(22:24):
posters on the wall and all those sorts of things.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
It's a great story.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
But he's taken a Test rugby like he belonged from
the outset.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
So for me, he wons that award.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, I tend to agree. I mean, he's looked outstanding
in every match he played and it was interesting to
hear Scott robertson Saturday that the probably missed him his
body type everything last week and this will be his
twelfth test of thirteen for the year. I only missed
that test against the English had took in him. So
he's had a big old workload, as have we on
this tour. And that'll be the last Rugby Direct until
(22:56):
we get back to New Zealand and probably until early December.
We're backing your feeds to wrap up the years, so
nothing specifically to wrap up this test match. We've got planes,
trains and automobiles to catch and head back home and
the little bit of downtime before we get back into
the rug better X studio limb.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
It's been a great tour, always a pleasure with the
earl it but getting a bit head off for home for.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Home look it up Hurrah Welsh So where we learned
last night over a couple of beverages and dinner from
the Welsh.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Colleagues, the great spot of Cardiff.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Absolutely right, It's it's been a pleasure to bring you
rug Director over the course of the tour. Thanks to
last and Bars English for pulling it all together. As
I said, we'll be back early December with a couple
of pods or one, so to wrap up the year,
by which point probably will know the all blacks pool
for the twenty twenty seven Rugby World Cup that is
on December the third, So maybe we convene after that
(23:52):
cast ahead to twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Tonga and Italy short odds.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, who else? Well, I don't think I was going
to Fiji in Australia all in their pool. They teend
to get drawn together. England gets Argentina a fair bit,
so we'll see what happens. I'm sure they'll How about
this all blacks wallabes in pool.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Play would be a better spice. Thing's nice.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Mix the balls correctly, you know, they do it fee
for you know, they you know, make sure that all
the tolato. Yeah, you know there's a it's it's you know,
not rigged, but it certainly you know, look their way.
You know, imagine Rugby World Cup organizers would love that
if they get that match up anyway. That'll do us
Regular powered by Excess Solutions celebrating twenty five years of business.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
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(00:30):
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Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions, celebrating twenty
five years in business. The final Rugby Directs on tour
of season twenty twenty five, coming of course from Cardiff.
As we count down to the All Blacks final match
of season twenty twenty five, they play well Sunday morning,
of course, and as we discussed earlier in the week
(00:59):
on the podcast, this game takes on a different complexion,
doesn't it lim As we build into this game, the
All Blacks could have been playing for a grand ultimately
weren't good enough, but now they've got to try and
finish the year on a high as best they can.
And as we have seen and I'm sure our listeners
have seen as well, much change lineup for the All
Blacks for this test. Was that ultimately what you were expecting.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I think this week, regardless of the result last week,
there were going to be mass changes went there, But
you're right, the complexion of those changes of the All
Black season of this week has completely altered. But I
don't know if the team has altered that score ups
and water put out drastically.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Not too sure. But as it stands thirteen.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Starting changes, Simon Parker and Scott Barrett are the only
two players in the same positions.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Will Jordan switches to the right wing.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
So a number of fringe players getting opportunities, and in
the most cases they're much needed, aren't they. You look
at guys like Rubin Love in particular. I was looking back.
I think he's played twenty three minutes for the All
Blacks with two brief bench appearances in four months, and
(02:16):
you just need exposure at that age twenty four. So
he's one guy that springs out and then Rikowani's back
to the back to the future recall at Censor is
quite curious.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Another big talking point.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It is, Yeah, let's get into the Ruben Love selection
first and foremost. You know, personally, I would have liked
to see him actually at ten this week. I don't
think there's a lot to lose for the All Blacks.
I mean, they could lose the match, I suppose, but
I think there's a lot more to gain by putting
Ruben Love at ten versus Damien McKinsey. We know we're
doing McKenzie and play ten to a very high level man.
(02:48):
He's played a number of Test matches this year, but
what his performance against Wales is not going to do
is convinced Scott Robertson to put him at ten in
twenty twenty six. Ruben Love, on the other hand, might
be able to do that or at least prove that
he can play ten at Test level. So I would
have flipped them around. I would have played Rubin Love
at ten Damian McKay fifteen. Scott Robinson's talked a lot
(03:10):
about this four four four project. Well, basically the all
Blacks are in the same position as they were at
the end of twenty twenty three, with the first five's
that have developed. Boden Barrett's saw there, Damien mackenzie still there, obviously,
Richid Moonger is coming back a middle of next year. Well,
they still don't have a fourth and we haven't seen
Rubin Love get any game time at ten. To me,
this felt like an opportunity to put him at ten
(03:31):
for this Test match and learned a little bit more
about him, and you could have the insurance policy of
McKenzie at fifteen if needed, in a bit of a
guiding hand. So to be honest, I think that is
a missed opportunity for the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well, what it does do is shape the public messaging
around Rubin Love as largely lip service, because the All
Blacks have said consistently throughout this year that they see
him as ten, that they were going to give him
game time there and that hasn't happened, not once.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
So do they actually believe that?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
And I agree with you in the sense that this
feels more like a selection to appeased Damien McKenzie to
a degree, you know, reassert the pecking in order and
give him some time at ten that he hasn't had
this year, rather than really grasp the development opportunity that
it could have been for Love. Now, Rubin Love can
play ten and fifteen, and I think he's one of
(04:26):
the better aerial exponents that the All Blacks do have
in that backfield. He has real conviction under the highball
when he goes up, a lot of confidence in that
and with time and space in the backfield, he can
be brilliant. He's good in both positions. But next year,
by all accounts, all signs appointing to him going back
and playing ten for the Hurricanes, and I believe that's
where it's long term futureize. I believe that's where he
(04:48):
should be playing. And I agree that this was a
great opportunity against a team that's really struggling twelve in
the world, so the All Blacks should beat them comfortably.
There's not a lot of risk, really, is there And
putting rub Belove at ten.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
No, there's not.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And you know, I still got the insurance policy of
McKenzie agains.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
He's there at fifteen, and you know, if he were
overly confident, you could have still played Bote and Barret
off the bench as well. As it happens they're taking
lestifying a Nuku and Sevi Reese onto the bench. We'll
get that to the other starting side shortly. But I
don't get that from a bench perspective for the All Blacks.
List can obviously cover midfield very well. He can also
cover the wing. Severest can only cover wing. I just
(05:28):
think I'm not sure what sever reesaids from being in
Jersey twenty three or twenty two. What everyone he's been
put in for this match. I don't get that selection,
especially when you've already got wing cover on the bench.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, I think Sevu Finlay Christie, those who guys in
particular are not going to be part of the Alburks
long term plans and so they feel like wasted opportunities, stagnation,
a lack of progression, insurance policies that perhaps don't need
to be there. We saw Seevo go back and play
(06:00):
one game for the All Blacks. Fifteen calib Tonguey Towel
came in and played. Sorry trained with the All Blacks.
You've got guys like Shaffi Hackey and Ammonia at an
Hour who will come back into the frame in a
big way next year. On the right wing. Those guys
to me are the future, not Sevi rees. So yeah,
(06:21):
it's giving a guy game time to appease him because
he's been on tour and hasn't appeared yet.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, I just don't see Sevris getting to the twenty
twenty seven World Cup. Now I get his on tour.
I don't think he should have be sicked in the
first place, and I think we had this discussion way
back when the squad was selected. You know, I wouldn't
be surprised if and I've got nothing to back this up,
by the way, but I would be surprised if sev
Rees plays one last season for the Crusaders then heads
off to an overseas deal.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I think that would probably be in his best entry.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
He's fallen way down the picking order. We started a
number of games this year for the All Blacks and
then was not wanted. I just don't see him, so
I don't get the point of that on the bench.
In fact, I would have probably gone with a six
to two, experimented a little bit. I think this was
the game to try and do it. You could have
loaded up with another loose forward. I know they've got
an end a few injuries there with Peter Luckey out
with carf Eshue, so they've got crushed Leo William there.
(07:09):
But maybe look at a Sex two and how you know,
we saw a bit of Leroy Carter there that are training,
actually taking a few reps at half back. It appeared,
you know, he's played their NPC level Sex two. Little
bit risky, yes, but I would like to see this
All Blacks team take a few more risks when it
comes to worth, the game plan and their selections.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, this was the game to do it right.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Not no disrespect to Wales, but no, but just given
where they're at. They beat Japan by one point last
week and so when the All Blacks played Japan, they'd
roll out a similar team. So you should be viewing
Wales in a similar light. What about Rico at center
Because the start of this year, Scott Robertson made the
(07:54):
call to break up that long established partnership that of
Jeordie Barrett and ricco one that had been the first
choice midfield basically for the best part of three years
for the All Blacks. He puts Rico on the wing,
he plays I think it's five tests on the wing,
then falls out of favor. Reco at the end of
this year, of course, is going for six months to
(08:15):
Irish club Leinster, following Jordi Barrett's footsteps, but having played
them all year on the wing a couple of matches
off the bench, he's now starting at center alongside another
veteran midfielder, Anton Lena Brown. It just feels like a
real state of flux, doesn't it that center position in particular.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well, again, the you know, could have gone with a
bit more adventure when they selected the squad. To me though,
it probably signals that they haven't found what they're looking
for at center this year. For the All Blacks, they
had Billy Proctor there for a number of test matches,
including who's returned there last week. It's not working with
(08:55):
Billy Proctor. He's got time and space at a test
level that he does not being afforded. Sorry, it's not
being for the team time and space. He gets a
super agulay level at test level. Would like to see
more from Jordi Barrat and quins a pie where you
only saw that in the one game. Really with Jordi
Baric going off early against Ireland the next test, it
(09:15):
was tried firing an Nooku into Pier and jury's out
For me, so feels like they've just gone a full
circle and ended up where they started or ended last
year and gone Actually, Rico, you might not be so
bad a center after all.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Well, what happens if Rico comes out this weekend plays
out of his skin. It doesn't necessarily need to score tries,
but he sets up a couple, makes a lot of
line breaks defense brilliantly. Is that a statement performance.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It's hard to know because, again, with all due respect
to Wales, the All Blacks are in a no win
situation this weekend. If they don't win well, you know
the the hounds will be circling. If they do win well,
they are expected to So it's no win and for
a lot of these players trying to make statements. Again,
you'll have the asterisk that Jarro SAT's only against the
(10:03):
twelfth best team in the world. But look, it could
be an opportunity for Rico. You won, his distribution always
been the question out of center. Defensively, he is very
very good if he is setting up his outsides, if
he's pulling the strings in that midfield position, then he
just does change a little bit and then he's going
obviously as you mentioned to Leinster, where potentially he gets
(10:26):
some more opportunities in midfield maybe or maybe he's on
the wing, but regardless, it probably leaves the year on
a pretty good note for Rico Yuani. So I think
he's got a bit to game this weekend potentially if things.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Go well, So it's an opportunity that he's been craving,
isn't it, and he needs to take it because lenks
there will be a different experience to be out of
his comfort zone. But he has been on the answer
and that's an interesting place for an eighty seven test
veteran to be. It's not normal. So yeah, he needs
(11:00):
a statement performance to say to Scott Robinson, I need
to remain in your thinking.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well, let's go move in one spot in Antonine Brown
because he is at second five this week. He's had
the odd injury here and there. He's also going on
sabbatical to Japan, so we won't see him in Super
Rugby next year.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
But there's a few of them. They aren't there because
Ardie Severe goes to Japan. Scott Barrett's gonna miss the
majority of Super Rugby actual sabbatical.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, yeah, so he's got a chance this weekend. Antony
let Brown, who's that personally, I think is an interesting
point in his career because I think the time to
nail a starting spot regularly for anton Lea Brown might
have passed him by now. So what does he still
bring to this all blacks environment? So I think it's
a big test for him this week too.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
It is because he's third choice second five, and who knows,
you've got so many different options at center, and the
vast majority of his tests, certainly in my memory, have
been off the bench in recent times because he can
cover second in center and not everyone can do that.
(12:08):
So look, I think if you cast their head to
next year, I think we probably will see. If you
think a first choice All Black midfield right now, you
would say Jordi Barrett at twelve and either Quintipyre or
Estifying a looker at thirteen, and one of those guys
probably sits on the bench. So as it stands, Lennard,
Brown and Awani aren't in that first choice twenty three picture.
(12:31):
How much of a stock can you put in a
performance against Wales? Not too sure, but you take your
chances where they are. I do really like that the
back three for the All Blacks Caleb Clark returns Love
at fullback and Jordan on the right wing. I think
Jordan on the right wing is still a very viable option.
He plays exceptionally well there for the All Blacks, always scores, try,
(12:54):
is always highly involved gets The roaming Commission hasn't been
great under the high ball. Maybe that takes a little
bit of pressure off him being on the wing as
opposed to fullback. So I do like that complexion. You've
got a one power wing. I like that element of
this team. It does feel like it should be a
viable option.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Good Bobby, absolutely, and you know it's going to be
interesting to see how Ruben Love adapts to that fullback
role because as you said, probably more of a ten
release will get game time at ten. So with a
down the track, he can still drop back to fifteen.
But that tends to be what New Zealanders in recent
times anyway, have that multiple skilled, multily faceted a ten
(13:34):
to fifteen ability to drop back we needed in team selections.
So yeah, I think it's a big opportunity for Ruben Love.
That have been few and far between for him this year.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
This is fourth appearance for the All Blacks basically in
two years.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, he got what came off the bench in Wellington
earlier in the year against South Africa in a game
that was dead and it's.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Not going to get any easier for him when Richie
Moarner comes.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
No, but what may happen is he may get a
lot of game time when we were casting him quite
significantly now But and the tour matches, the tour matches
next year, and that could be a chance for him
to really play some ten. But again what he you're
struggling to put your test claims forward when you're playing
against the balls of Stormers, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, they are opportunities though, like you say, two other
guys you spoke to Wallace the tit today I spoke
to Mighty Williams, two guys that haven't had the best
years compared to their their last seasons. Last year Wallace
was well breakthrough player of the Year last year All
Blacks Player of the Year to Mighty Williams finished the
(14:34):
year as the first choice lucid prop and as this year,
slipped back into a bench roll. So again in the
context of Wales, but important for those guys in a
starting role.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, I think with Wallace speaking to him today, I
think it's a realization, you know, an acceptance from him
that he hasn't been at the same level he was
at last year, but also feels that, you know, maybe
there's a bit of a target on his back, you know,
compared to you can't go under the radar like he
probably did last year, and you boost onto the scene
and it's you know, the defenses know what you're going
(15:06):
to bring and can prepare for the more accordingly. So yeah,
I think he's still getting his head around that, but
I think it's a big chance for him. He's sort
of flitted between bench rolls this year and blind side
and number eight, so big opportunity for him and obviously
to Mighty Williams as well. You know, it felt like that,
you know these Lucy Propp was at his will, was
(15:28):
at his feet into last year. We thinking of the
group taking a back seat. Well, feels like even De
Groot's got one back on him this year. So big
test for them. And also I just want to put
out Simon Parker, big test for him this week. He
hasn't really nailed that blind side role. He's played some
big Test matches and what I mean by that is
he hasn't had a soft landing when it comes to
(15:50):
Test matches. He started against Argentina and Buenos Aires, he
played South Africa, He's played right through this tour, so
he has had not Test matches where you can build
into it and get some soft landings against some lesser opponents.
Has been balls to the wall for Simon Parker, so
big Test match for him too.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, and I think it is important for the All
black Ford pack to really stamp their authority this weekend.
We had dinner last night with a BBC colleagues didn't
when and their view was this is one of the
weakest Welsh back rows in history and when you think
of previous iterations the Sam Warburton, Toby Foalatao Lydiot. Yeah,
they've had some great loose Fords in their time. So
(16:34):
for a guy like Simon Parker really is important that
he is physical on both sides of the ball and
really stamps as Mark christianly.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I will he gets chunks on the bench as well.
With Peter Luckye out with the carf injury as well,
I think we might have seen Peter Baby come off
the bench potentially if it wasn't for Christian Leo Willy
being ruled out. As you mentioned on Wales, what do
we expect from them, It's really hard to know whether
that went against Japan will boost their confidence. But they've
(17:02):
got New Zealand this week, they've got South Africa next week.
Could be a tough couple of weeks. And also they
don't have their foreign players will foreign bass players next
week because it's outside the international windows. So for some
Steve Tndy and co. It's a big test match.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Huge, that's a brutal tests scheduled to end the year.
The All Blacks are still ranked number two, so the
top two ranked teams in the world to finish the
year for a team that's really starting to starting at
the start line of their rebuild. New coach trying to
(17:39):
bring a team together. Look, I think Whales will be spirited,
They'll be competitive to a point, but any other result
but the All Blacks by twenty plus points would probably
be disappointed. Yeah, I think it would be Argentina put
fifty on them a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, and that's gonna be about benchmark and the comparison,
isn't it for this All Blacks performance this weekend? So
you can catch a live commentary course on News talk
Zbig Gold Sport and iHeartRadio of that game on four
am Sunday morning. You can also catch all the analysis
the metroports, et cetera from the New Zealand Herald website.
So before we wrap up Player of the Year nominee
(18:17):
World Rugby announced earlier in the week and almost in
all South African benefit Ox and chair their prop Malcolm
Marx and Peter sift Toy so three spring Box forwards
alongside the French winger Louis blbre So three out of
four am band for South Africa. Are you surprised be
(18:38):
any of those nominations them?
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Do you like them? But underwhelmed?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
To be honest, I think the spring Box fully deserving
of having three in there. But I think Peter stef
to Toy and Malcolm Marx have had better years in
recent years. I can't remember them necessarily having massive standout
performances consistently. I'm happy to see a prop on there
that they've been shafted over the years. Ox Niche is
(19:05):
the world's best scrummager, so I think it's nice to
see that recognition. But and I know that some of
these guys didn't necessarily play as much. But I think
Sasha Feinberg, he's been very influential for the spring Box.
I think Artie Severe has been very good when he's
captains the All Blacks cam Royguards. Even guys like Will
(19:27):
Skelton to a degree hasn't played enough, but those guys
rarely stand out in my mind in terms of having
huge influential impact.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
What about you, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I think you're right. It feels like sometimes the World
Rugby Awards are sort of suspended six to twelve months
late from some of the selections that they make. I
mean Ox and Jip absolutely, but I agree. I mean
Malcolm Marx sort of faded a little bit in the
middle of the year and then came back strongly on
(20:01):
the end of year tour. Peter Steff magnificent throughout his career,
but I'm not sure this has been his special or
he's really stood up. I agree about Sasha. If I'm
being Gonezula, I would have had him on the short
list for sure. I think there's other players, you know.
You look at a Jci Creole, for example, who his
career looked cooked a couple of years ago, come back
(20:22):
really strongly and playing some really good rugby. Tom Curry,
I thought he had a really good line series would
be in the mix for me. George Ford even Yeah,
so I think it's I think quite subscribe to. I mean,
I think three bocks well deserving of dominating the shortlist,
(20:43):
but I'm not sure that actually the right players in there,
but yeah, it's it is good to see the props rewarded.
Tiger Furlong probably had a claims a few years ago
to being in there.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
It was overlooked.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And so this is the thing for me with will
the Raby Awards is that, yeah, they've obviously looked overlook
props for twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
It's a year two late or too.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah. And then the breakthrough player of the year is
often only from sort of Tier one nations And I
get why to an extent, because you know, you break through,
you're going to get more attention, et cetera. But I'm
not sure he's entirely eligible. But the Japanese fallbacker is
not yet playing professional rugby, is still at university. I
think it's hisaki, very very good player. He is looks
(21:24):
like the goods at test level and one of the
better players in this current proper players. He would have
been worthy of inclusion for me, but not to be
skimmission to see where there will go. It is Fabian Holan's
up for it. Henry Pollock as well, Joseph Kauso so
elite in the mix, so it's gonna be fascinating to
(21:44):
see whereabouts it all lands alongside Ethan Hooker of South Africa.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, I think I like that collection of players. I
think they're all fully deserving. So Lee has had a
great year, but I think that wallaby Is have struggled
at the back end of the season. They'd be a
real ground swell around. Henry Pollock because of his character
as much as anything else.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
But hasn't played a lot of Test rugby.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Largely comes off the bench. So for me, Fabian ones
that hands down. He has come and not on it.
It's obviously his rookie year, but he's played eighty minutes
so often and made it look reasonably easy at times,
carried a heavy load for the All Blacks, and his
backstory about where he's come from and you know, the
(22:24):
posters on the wall and all those sorts of things.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
It's a great story.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
But he's taken a Test rugby like he belonged from
the outset.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
So for me, he wons that award.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, I tend to agree. I mean, he's looked outstanding
in every match he played and it was interesting to
hear Scott robertson Saturday that the probably missed him his
body type everything last week and this will be his
twelfth test of thirteen for the year. I only missed
that test against the English had took in him. So
he's had a big old workload, as have we on
this tour. And that'll be the last Rugby Direct until
(22:56):
we get back to New Zealand and probably until early December.
We're backing your feeds to wrap up the years, so
nothing specifically to wrap up this test match. We've got planes,
trains and automobiles to catch and head back home and
the little bit of downtime before we get back into
the rug better X studio limb.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
It's been a great tour, always a pleasure with the
earl it but getting a bit head off for home for.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Home look it up Hurrah Welsh So where we learned
last night over a couple of beverages and dinner from
the Welsh.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Colleagues, the great spot of Cardiff.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Absolutely right, It's it's been a pleasure to bring you
rug Director over the course of the tour. Thanks to
last and Bars English for pulling it all together. As
I said, we'll be back early December with a couple
of pods or one, so to wrap up the year,
by which point probably will know the all blacks pool
for the twenty twenty seven Rugby World Cup that is
on December the third, So maybe we convene after that
(23:52):
cast ahead to twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Tonga and Italy short odds.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, who else? Well, I don't think I was going
to Fiji in Australia all in their pool. They teend
to get drawn together. England gets Argentina a fair bit,
so we'll see what happens. I'm sure they'll How about
this all blacks wallabes in pool.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Play would be a better spice. Thing's nice.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Mix the balls correctly, you know, they do it fee
for you know, they you know, make sure that all
the tolato. Yeah, you know there's a it's it's you know,
not rigged, but it certainly you know, look their way.
You know, imagine Rugby World Cup organizers would love that
if they get that match up anyway. That'll do us
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Speaker 1 (24:38):
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