1,600 Nights Sleeping Outside, 262 Days in Silent to 26 Books: The Wild Life of G. Scott Graham EP73

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Position the book so that on some list somewhere it's a best
seller. Now Amazon has fucking millions
of yeah, right. You know, so you could be the
best seller of questions about Italian heritage by people
living in South Africa. Like there's probably a

(00:23):
category. Yeah.
Best seller for that. So now for 5001 thousand to
$5000 you can go along and say, you know what, I'm a coach and
I'm also an Amazon best selling author.
That would be like somebody slipping in the shower and then

(00:43):
saying I have an international high dive competitor, right?
I mean, yeah, he convinced me togo on a 10 day meditation
course. Worst fucking experience.
In my. Life was in World War 2.
They were occupied by the Germans.

(01:06):
The people in Corsica drove the Germans out like they literally
drove the Germans out by taking cattle and pouring oil on the
cattle. Little drove the Germans out the
day after they drove the Germansout the Americans in an effort

(01:27):
to drive the Germans out. Bomb the shit out of Bastia.
They fucking hate Americans. They fucking hate it.
So I was Canadian. I told my big.
Name three things that people should try at least once in
their life. Psychedelics, psychedelics and
psychedelics. This is the thing, this is the,

(01:49):
this is the piece. This is really, really
important. When we treat other human beings
as disposable, they're easy to be disposed.
Of. When we treat our body as
disposable, it's easy to be disposed.

(02:10):
Of absolutely. So when we took that off the
table, we took that off the table and said it's not.
I don't give a fucking shit if if you're gonna go to prison,
I'm staying with you. I'm there.
We're going to. Eat together if if you get

(02:31):
cancer, I'm staying if you lost.Start.
It's it's you really did do yourresearch.
I'm so blown away. I'm so impressed.
I appreciate. That.

(03:19):
Welcome back on a rumbling fact podcast where uncomfortable
truth meets critical thinking. For real, raw and unfiltered
conversations for growth. For the real ones like you
people, this is your number one destination to challenge the
script. Dig deeper into issues that most
people are gonna shy away from and avoid.
I'm Sam. DJ right?
Sam, a rapper, creator, truth seeker, and the founder of

(03:40):
Making Others Read, a nonprofit taking unwanted books that
people don't want to throw out. I take them and give them back
to the communities because knowledge is power people, and
they should never fucking be wasted.
This year alone, my music has reached over 220,000 streams and
we're just getting started. Thank you all for taking the
time to check out my music and end the podcast because this is

(04:02):
all about growth. I've been through hell and back
multiple times. Addiction, blackmail, PTSD, and
surviving A kidnapping, murder attempt at only 16 years old.
But I came out louder, sharper, and even more determined than
ever to help people in their lives.
Giving through advice through the podcast or the books or the
fucking music. Rumbling facts isn't just about

(04:23):
the easy answers people. It's about the real ones.
The ones that fucking change you.
If you're tired of the useless conversations and conventional
thinking and podcast are not giving you value, you're at the
right place, people. Today's guests is a man with
many dimensions, people with expertise and credentials in
almost fucking everything from personal development to

(04:44):
psychedelics transformation. G Scott Graham is here not not
just because of his wealth of knowledge, but because his
approach to life and growth challenges the status quo.
He's a thinker, a speaker, and aman who lives his true or
unapologetically. This guy live life a bold,
unconventional ways, from navigating the world of

(05:04):
psychedelics and marijuana legalization to exploring the
depths of grief and how we process pain.
Because Scott doesn't just settle for easy answer.
He later into the intersection of critical thinking and raw,
uncomfortable truth. He's a man who's not afraid to
ask the hard questions and challenge the mainstream
narratives. And today I'm honored to have

(05:26):
him here. Welcome to rumbly facts podcast.
G Scott Graham, how you doing? Pretty good boy.
That's quite the introduction and there's quite the high bar.
I wanna make sure this is worth your time and your listeners
time so. Here I am.
I appreciate that. What made you want to go into so

(05:46):
many different expertise and have all those under your belt?
Like what was the driving force to be like, OK, I'll go get this
over here. Then maybe you got not going to
eat every day, but and then you go get something else like why?
Why would you do that? Books in, in a wide variety of
areas that I've written in and Iand it's interesting that I just

(06:07):
today, my 27th book went live this morning.
And it's funny, I, I do not consider myself an author.
Isn't that fun? Books.
Somebody asked me, how many books do you need to have to be
an author? And I'm like, well, I don't
know, but I don't see myself as an author.
I see myself as a person who hasa message and I get that message

(06:29):
out via via writing and books and, and that kind of creates a
ripple effect. You know, so many people really,
we've got, we have one life and that's it.
And so many people just fuck it away.

(06:50):
They just fuck it away. And I'm not going to do that If
you, you, we've got the opportunity to help others, to
influence others, to make changes and make the world a
better place. And I don't want to supply and,
and let that go by. And so that for me is what

(07:11):
compels me to communicate to people and, and pass a message.
I started my very, very first book was I was almost a victim
of a scam. And so there's these books that
are out there and, and scam is aharsh word, you know, but
there's these books that are outthere that are they're crafted

(07:31):
to stroke somebody's ego. They just want to masturbate
somebody who? Is.
Just, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a coach and I, I, I don't
feel very good about myself, butI feel better if I, if I, if I
was an author. And so they reach out to 10:15.
It's what do you, when you hear this going to be like, what?

(07:53):
So they reach out to 10:15, maybe 20 different people in one
profession, and they asked them each to write 750 to 1000 of
words on a topic, right? What do I what, what, what do I
need to think about before hiring a coach?
And so these 20 people do that and then this company charges

(08:14):
them anywhere from 1000 to $5000each to be in the book.
Wow. And they, I mean, think about
that, just do the math. If it was just $1000 a person,
they're going to make $20,000 before the book is even.
Before the 1st sale. Before the and and so they put

(08:35):
this book together, they kind ofpromote it, they maybe buy
little ads. They try to position the book so
that on some list somewhere it'sa best seller.
Now Amazon has fucking millions of.
Yeah, right. You know, so you could be the
best seller of questions about Italian heritage by people

(09:01):
living in South Africa. Like there's probably a
category. Yeah.
The best seller for that. So now for 5000, for 1000 to
$5000, you can go along and say,you know what, I'm a coach and
I'm also an Amazon best selling author.
Internet. I mean, it's really, when you
think about it, it's just ridiculous because you write

(09:24):
what's 750 to 1000 words? That's like A blog post that
would be like somebody slipping in the shower and then saying
I'm an international high dive company, right?
I mean. Yeah.
Someone, someone's late to catchthe bus and they run 50 feet and

(09:46):
they're like, I'm an international running race
triathlete. And I mean it really.
That's, that's what people are doing with these things.
It's just so I, so I was approached for that scam and my
spouse said, don't pay for that.You're, you're writes your own
God damn book. And so I did.

(10:08):
My first book was this literallythe question was, what do you
need to think about coaching before you get a coach?
And so my first book was I'm like, well, fuck that.
I wrote defence chapters, A 1000words each and an introduction
and a conclusion. So it was like 11 hundred 1200
words, 10 things you noted before you get a coach.

(10:28):
Did it myself, push the button, published it, sold it.
Or I think I was originally like5 bucks for the book.
Now it's free. You know, I've written a number
of my books. I'm like that books free.
That's just so I've got a numberof them out there that I just.
You just want the knowledge to be.
Shared from from coaching to time management to coming up

(10:53):
with your best bucket list. To gardening as well.
Yes. Gardening.
Yep. Yes.
It has expertise everywhere. You wrote an impressive 26 books
to date. Like what drives you to to keep
exploring these varieties of subjects and what motivates you

(11:15):
to be like, OK, I'll write another one after this one and
another one. Two things.
Either I have a strong opinion on something and so I feel like
that needs to get the message out there, or there's just an A
vacuum of information. Just a vacuum of information.
So a couple of years ago, after,you know, Brian died in 2019,

(11:40):
and then I was trying to figure out what I needed to do to, you
know, reins not not reinvent my wife, my wife, but I I couldn't
go to the same places that we used to go.
For sure that. Everybody here has ever had, you
know, a significant relationship, even if it's just
a six month relationship goes S you're not going to listen to
the same music that you use to listen to with the person that

(12:01):
you were dating. It just doesn't feel.
So I was looking for something else and I've got two dogs and I
tried mountain biking. It was a disaster because, you
know, they're running trails, cars, not a not a good mix.
And so I decided that maybe whatI'll do is I'll paddle boarding.
That's it. I had knee replacement

(12:23):
surgeries, so I have two artificial knees so I can't run
or really hike. And so I'm paddle boarding and I
thought that's going to be perfect and I can take the dogs.
No information how to paddle. There's a few things like people
showing their dogs on the board,but nothing.

(12:45):
Happened. And so I started researching.
I had to figure it out from scratch.
And then the result of that was this which came out.
Put your butt. I love the title.
As genius of Fire. And those are the two dogs.
Yeah, I think. That's rocket, that's the little

(13:05):
1, and that's group sitting, right?
There and that. Is that is Lake Francis in New
Hampshire from from last from September of last year.
And so, you know, I've got this book here, which, but there is a
little book that you can get on Amazon that kind of talks about
it, but people were giving it like really bad reviews.

(13:25):
It's like 30 pages long. This book is 143 pages long.
So there's, it's not, it's not fluff.
So, so that's, that's an exampleof something that and how it
came about because I have an interest and there's nothing.
And I'm like, well, fuck it, if I'm gonna, if I'm going to take
the time to learn about it, yeah, somebody else learn about.

(13:48):
It because so it literally you take an adventure and knowledge
that you gain in your light bulb.
Now it's time to give my perspective of this in in a
book. Wow.
I I, I like that you you spend 16110 days sleeping outside so
far. What did you enjoy from sleeping

(14:08):
outside for almost 4 years and ahalf?
Technically when you look at it and do you sleep like literally
nature or you have a tent or RV?How?
Does that at that time from frombasically 3 or 4 areas first of
all, I hiked the entire Appalachian Trail, which is you
know, 2100 miles long and so from Georgia in the United

(14:32):
States to Maine in the United States.
So I walk there with a backpack,slept outside every night along
the way. I hiked the the long trail which
is the was the first long distance hiking trail.
It's like 275 miles and then gets a baby compared to the
Appalachian. Yeah, yeah.
I, I went to do all research on all those.

(14:55):
It is incredible what you did. And so I did that twice and
actually one of my dogs has doneit.
And then I did the GR20 and thenI worked for years as an Outward
Bound instructor and A and an instructor for the National
Outdoor Leadership School teaching wilderness schools,
taking people hiking, you know, six months a year camping

(15:15):
outside with, with people, threeweeks at a crack for, you know,
four or five years racks it up. For sure.
Do you have a tent or how does that work?
We don't have it, but well, actually, I do have a tent now
that I got for the, the the lastmajor hike that I was working on

(15:37):
looking for something that was smaller.
I had a tent when I did the GR20, which was my last big
hike. That's in, if that's in, in
Corsica, I dug out a tent that Ihad bought when I worked for
Outward Bound because when we worked for out, when you worked
for these places, you often get discounts on, on, on, on ship

(15:59):
that other people or something. You know, like North Face gave
us 75% off of everything becausethey want you to wear something
that says space so that when there's somebody that's with
you, they're like, oh, I want tobe like, Scott, I should buy
northern. And, and I had this tent that I
had gotten from it's. So this tent was I purchased it

(16:21):
in 1989 and and and it lasted. It lasted on and and I did the
TR20 in 2015 or 2016. Wow, threw it away at the end of
the hike. I literally just fucking.
It probably lived through everything it could have.

(16:43):
Wow. It did.
It did. That's incredible.
What first sparked that you're interested in meditation, and at
what point did you realize that there was much that we've been
taught that is completely wrong about it?
It really, I really, it really wasn't me that it wasn't an

(17:06):
interest that sparked. It was a colleague named Jack.
And Jack is Alhart was had had gone on these meditation
courses, 10 days of silence. And he was like, you should go.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, no, no, no, you
really should go. A couple months would go by and

(17:26):
he would be like, you know, haveyou thought about going on this
meditation course? And I'm like, yeah, that's
really nice because I thought itwas a cult like.
That's what I would have thoughttoo.
This is like really culty and I'm not going.
And he was really persistent, thank goodness, really, really
persistent. And he convinced me to go on a

(17:48):
10 day meditation course. Worst fucking experience.
For my. Like, umm, I was literally at, I
remember this and it's, it's, and this is an aside, but on
these larger courses, they're all over the country, all over

(18:08):
the world. They're all set up because all
the courses are run by volunteers.
And the only way you volunteer is by being a, you know, a
student. They won't just let anybody
volunteer. You have to take, have taken a
course. Yeah, we have to be what they
call you. You're an old student.
You've sat for 10 days and then you can volunteer.

(18:28):
And so they have all these people running in.
And so they need to make everything more on proof.
So it's the same menu on day onein May as it is on day one in
November. They keep the same thing so that
they know what food order. It makes it really simple and
then nobody fucks with the schedule.

(18:49):
No one fucks with the recipe. You follow the exact same
recipe. And so I, it's funny cause as I,
I this meal that I remember was on day, day two or three of the
course was a Friday. So it was Wednesday, Thursday.
Yeah. So day three, it's a, it was an
Italian meal, pasta and, and tomato sauce and garlic bread

(19:12):
and a salad always serve that same thing.
And so I had that food and we were meditating in the
meditation hall that evening andI was like, it was really tough
for me. It was really, really tough for
me on the course. And I suddenly felt like I was
going to throw up like this is I'm going to throw up here in

(19:33):
the meditation. I'll holy shit, jumped up from
my chair, walked out the door from the meditation hall, fell
to my knees and projectile vomited all the way on the wall
on the floor was fucking everywhere.
The course manager followed me out because he wanted to see

(19:55):
what was going on. I remember he's a volunteer.
I didn't know this at the time, but he he's, he's just, he's an
old student. Like I was going to be at the
end of this course and he just happened to come in and they're
like. What do we wanna do?
Do you wanna cook? Do you want to be the course
manager? We've got these roles to fill.
And he was just like, why don't you just go get a drink of water

(20:17):
and then go back into the meditation hall?
And I'm like, I'm not doing that.
I got, I'm, I got, I'm leaving. He's like, no, no, no.
He says don't, you'll be fine. Just go back and meet with the
teacher. And I'm like, no, no, no, I
can't. I can't not.
Even worried of why you're sick?He's he's like, you're going to
be fine. He says.
I'm going to clean. He says.
I said I got to clean up this mess.

(20:38):
He goes, don't worry about it, Iwill clean it.
Up. Wow, that's a hair roll right
there, my friend. No, no, no, no, no, no, you are
not cleaning it up. I'm cleaning it up and then I'm
leaving. Well, somehow he convinced me to
stay till the end of the night. And literally I went back in and
he cleaned it up and I met with the teacher and the teacher was

(20:59):
like, you know, this, this is whatever it is.
We're not going to analyze what it is.
Whatever it is, it's going to bedifferent tomorrow because
nothing stays the same. You're not going to be vomiting
for for 1010 days. And you know, just go with it
and, and I'm like, all right, I'll stay for one more day.

(21:23):
It was like, OK, that's fine. And then I met the teacher the
next day and he's like, how's itgoing?
I'm like, I'm not sick. He's like, all right, so you're
going to stay. I'm like, no, I'm still leaving.
But he's like, can you, can you just stay for one more day and
like. All right.
I'll stay for one more day, but then I'm leaving and, and the
next day, same thing happened and and I stayed for the entire

(21:48):
course. And then I, you know, what I
discovered after that was, you know, this sense of presence,
this sense of peace, this sense of, of things just not being so
weighty on, you know, we were, we were, we are hoodwinked in

(22:10):
this country with meditation andall this bullshit about, you
know, listen to this app on yourphone and this is going to make
you feel like it's all bullshit.Yeah.
Because meditation is not about feeling good.
That's a that's bullshit meditation.
The results of meditation are about feeling good, but

(22:30):
meditation itself isn't. And people push meditation these
days like it's some sort of hallucinogen, like, you know,
you're going to take this, your stress is going to go away.
And this is this is magic. Or you're going to bring fortune
to you. It's bullshit, it really is, and
so true. Meditation is this is this is

(22:52):
the best analogy I can come to. Meditation is to your own
well-being like running is to your cardiovascular health.
So you you go run. I mean, who's fucking loves
running? Like, I don't know, I mean you
have to nobody's the only, the only people that love running

(23:14):
are the people that were campingand a bear is coming and they're
the fastest one in their group. They love running because
everybody else is left behind. The bears attacking them and
they're like, I love running. But other than that I mean.
And but the result that we appreciate like you said.

(23:34):
Yeah, right. And so the results like MET,
like running is the cardiovascular health, like
meditation is. Here's the word equanimity.
OK, what does that? Mean yeah there's 4-4 pieces
that come out come as you're meditating them The first one is

(23:56):
equanimity A second one that youcultivate once you have a basic
base of equanimity is loving kindness.
It's all interrelated another one is is compassion and then
the 4th 1 is it's called selfless joy.
It's where you're somebody has something good happen from them

(24:17):
and because of your practice, you realize that that good thing
is is something to be celebrated, so you're joyful for
them as opposed to. Jealous.
Right, There's no the envy goes away in that piece.
That's the result of meditation,not this.

(24:38):
Bullshit. For somebody like me that can't
keep my mouth shut, so it's likeI'm a kid there.
I, I say everything I think it feels is the beginning.
I lost jobs, careers, suspended from from school all the time.
And that's caused by my OCD and I didn't know it when I was a
kid there. So what made you want to not
talk and be silent for 262 days in silent straight?

(25:02):
And what did you discover after doing that?
And was it hard by not talking? It, it actually was pretty easy
because because everybody that'sat the centre, so this is 10
days at a crack, everybody comesin and makes the valve silence.
So it's it's hard to not talk when everybody else is talking.

(25:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
It's pick any behavior. Pick any behavior.
If you are trying to lose weightand you're hanging out with
people who are, you know, sitting in front of the
television eating Cheetos, guessyou're not going to lose weight.
It's pretty hard if you're trying to stop drinking and.

(25:46):
You're with drinkers. And you're.
Hanging out with. Blinkers on a Friday night
playing. You are not going to stop
drinking. I guarantee you that.
They'll be fucking guarantee that if you, if you might be
thinking, well, that's me. That's bullshit.
You, you what you are, it's not gonna work.
And so you go on this meditationcourse and there's new people

(26:06):
that are there and there's old people that are there old
people, meaning people that havedone a course already, right?
They've got 10 days under their belt if they might have 300 days
or you know, 100 days. And the new people that
everybody's being quiet and not talking to each other.
The old students are not only not talking to each other and

(26:27):
not talking to you, but they're not even looking.
At you. So there's not, there's not even
a level of communication like two people walking towards the
same door, right? Normally if you if if someone
wasn't talking, someone would belike, you know first or you go
to. That.
What will happen is that you'll see, like an older student, that
you're both walking towards the same door, and that more

(26:50):
experienced student will stop. And there's the let the guy
without no signs. When they look out the window.
Because sign language would be cheating and talking.
Yes. OK, that's what I would.
Think there's none of that? Don't even have.
There's no journals, there's no books, there's no.

(27:11):
Electronics. There's no music.
So everything, you know, we, we spend our lives in this 32nd
TikTok world barraged with shit all the time.
And So what happens is that whenyou turn that down and people do
that collectively, things get quiet.

(27:34):
Quieter. Then it's really still.
It is really, really still. And it's unlike these.
They ate well, actually I'm on day on the 10th day.
You're there for basically 11 onthe 10th day.
They have, they let everybody talk and, and they, and, and the

(27:59):
time around noon or something, they're like at these places,
you can go talk. They didn't used to do that.
They used to just, you know, 10 days, 11th day you're gone.
And they found that, you know, people went off the deep end was
so overwhelming. And so they have this like talk
piece and they have it in designated section so that if

(28:22):
it's overwhelming for you, you can go meditate and be quiet.
And that acts like a buffer between the silence and the
noise. Because after this chunk of time
of being very focused with your eyes closed and you're focused
on yourself and you're not talking to anybody else, by the

(28:43):
time that that 11th day rolls around and you're out the door,
you, the, the world is overwhelming.
It's. Too chaotic for sure.
So we're wrapping it up for people at the end to at least
allow talking to understand where they're at with this
experience is nice there so you can at least wrap it up for

(29:04):
them. Because if you just throw them
in the world of chaos that we are, we living at constant so we
don't see it. If you're smart enough, you can
realize it, but most people don't even see this chaos until
you turn off your fucking Wi-Fi.You go on camping and literally
and literally be relaxed to the highest degree.
And that's when you start realizing when you come back
home. Wow, like the notification here,

(29:26):
there's there another sound there, man, life there is so
chaotic. So for sure if you don't wrap
things up, people could just go on the deep end for sure.
Like what the hell is this? Right.
So since it was hard for you doing that 10 days initially,
what got you to 262? I, I, I saw some benefit in my

(29:48):
life. Wow.
It's, it's as simple as that. And then they encourage you, you
know, to at least do 10 days every year to kind of keep
things fresh, right? So it's like, you know,
somebody, somebody goes to soccer camp every year to make
sure there's better or basketball camp every year.

(30:10):
Make sure make sure those skillsare for it's like somebody
becomes, you know, licensed as atherapist and they need to do CU
every couple years so they stay fresh with the laws, with the
changes and all this other stuff.
And so it's the same thing. And so for for years, I would do

(30:32):
you know, I would sit of course and then serve a course and sit
a course and serve twice a year.I would sit a course in the, in
the, I would serve a course like, I don't know, in the
towards the end of the summer. And then I would sit like in the
middle of the winter because who?
Who who wants to? There's nothing to do in the
middle of the winter anyway. And so, so being wrapped up in a

(30:55):
blanket with your eyes closed for a chunk of time when the
world's dark, for most of the time it's totally fine with me.
And so most of my sets were likein the middle of the winter.
Yeah, your daily spiritual practices focuses on on three
different medication, meditationthat I don't even know how to
say the Anna Panna stay I would say.

(31:17):
So the three of them, the first ones, sorry.
OK, I know, Pasari. OK, yeah.
And so Anapana for short is focused on your breath.
OK, that's when actually you do a 10 day course.
The first three days you are learning on upon OK and you're
just focused on breath and you know it's not rocket science.

(31:40):
They don't keep any of this stuff secret.
You're just working on on observing your breath here and
and then you're not just you want What you are not doing,
which is really important is you're not counting your
breaths, you're not naming your breaths, You're not there's no
verbal shit going on while you're doing that.

(32:01):
So it's just an observation. And what happens is that your
mind wants to be really active. And So what you're doing is
doing the hard work to be reallyfocused and quiet your mind and
just observe the breath as it is.
That's basically on upon them. The nice thing about that is
that wherever you go, you take your breath with you.

(32:26):
Like there's no place that we'reat where we're not breathing
right. You could do Anapana anywhere
and it's a great way to, when your mind is remember to
discipline yourself, not to combat.
And one of the mistakes people make, and this is one of the
worst things in psychotherapy isthey, they learn this, there's a

(32:50):
technique called cognitive behavioral therapy, right?
And so this, this is just an example of that.
So you're, let's say somebody looks at them and they say I'm
stupid, I'm stupid and I'm nevergoing to be about I'll amount to
anything. And so the cognitive behavioral
therapist as well, the answer tothat is to come up with the

(33:15):
exact opposite. And you're going to say that to
yourself. So when you hear the voice in
your head say, Scott, I'm stupid, you're going to say I'm
a smart person, I love myself. And in fact, some kind of
behavioral therapists say, you know what you should do?
You should write this down and you should stand in front of a
mirror and look at yourself and say, Scott, you're smart, you're

(33:38):
going to be successful. You are loved.
You are precious, Bob. And you know what, let me tell
you, you know when I say this, you're going to be like, well,
of course, because if you've ever done this, that voice in
your head that's telling you that you're stupid, that you're
not going to be amount to anything.

(33:59):
It fucking knows what you're doing.
It's not like it's stupid. It knows exactly what you're
doing. And so every time you look in
the mirror and you say, Scott, you're smart, that other fucking
voice in your head is like, that's bullshit.
No, you're not. Remember this time if they're
arguing with each other and the the voice in your head that's

(34:22):
criticizing you and telling you all this shit is going to win
because it's known you longer every single time.
And it's, and it's less unfiltered.
That first one there is exactly like, let's say when you're like
a Broadway, you've been slackinga couple of weeks.
Well, because you've been slacking.
If you're starting to think thatin your mind, don't, don't,

(34:45):
don't try to cover it up. Well, I'm not slacking.
I'm doing great. No, no, that don't work.
So the real, the real strategy, which is also related to
Vipassana, just like with Anapana, is to focus on
something else so that voice isn't there.
And then it gets quieter and quieter and quieter.

(35:05):
And then what you realize is that that voice is kind of
bullshit. Like this is what this is what
happens to us. We go outside and it's raining
and our experience, really our true experience is it's raining

(35:26):
right now. That's it.
That's it. And I'm standing in the rain.
Yeah, but that's not what peopledo.
Nope. They go, I'm fucking wet.
It's cold, this sucks. I'm always going to be wet.
Why the fuck does it rain all the time?
It's never sunny here. I hate the fucking rain.
Oh my God, It's raining more because there's global fucking

(35:48):
warming. What's going to happen?
Oh my, that's bullshit. The truth is, it's just.
Rain, rain. There is a big difference, and
this is an important piece. Then there is a big difference
between the weather and a weather forecast.

(36:10):
It's just the fucking weather. It's going to be different
tomorrow. Not a weather forecast that
people, people get wrapped up inthat.
Pick a topic. I got in a fight with my spouse
or I got in a fight with my parents.
Yeah, my parents in my we're all, we're always fighting.
This is never going to happen. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. Just like, you know, it's like

(36:32):
I'm wet, I'm cold, It sucks. It's going to global warming.
It's we're going to whatever, stop blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah. That's just adding on shit.
And, and creating yourself emotions of stuff you can't
control, like the fucking temperature is so stupid.
I tell people, if you can't control the problem, well, you
shouldn't be emotional about it because you can't fix it no

(36:53):
matter what. So who gives a shit that you're
stressed about that airplane ride on Monday or Tuesday?
It's in six days. So till then, like a fucking
relax. But no, people take these
emotions of stuff they can't even control or touch and they
they get riled up by it's like, no, no, it you shouldn't look at
a day like, Oh my God, this guysgonna kill me.

(37:15):
You gotta look at this day like I'm gonna take over this day
like, and not the victim mindset.
A lot of people do and they almost wait for when you go
outside and it's fucking cold tothe higher grade.
Oh my God, look what a day. Well, you start your day right
there like this. Well, you just and the decline
yourself for the rest of the daybecause your mind is just going
to be like, see, I told you it was bad this morning.

(37:36):
See how it is bad at work and it's just fucking?
And So what you learn in the second technique, there's
there's anapana, the second technique, which is Vipassana,
what you're learned for that is that everything's impermanent.
And so that's the insight from this piece.
And the Pasona is after you practice anapana, it's kind of

(38:00):
like sharpening the knife and being and then you're ready to
like cut the food or do the surgery or do whatever.
You have to have a sharp knife to do that on a pond and
strengthens your mind and gets you really focused.
And then what you do very simply, again, it's not rocket
science. You're just starting at the top
of your head or you can start atyour feet, doesn't matter.

(38:20):
You just go in a can same consistent manner and you
looking at sensations on your body, hot, cold.
You're not naming them, just like you don't name your breath.
Hot, cold, tingling, pain, agitation, soreness.
And you just go through and thenyou come back and you check

(38:41):
again, check it out again. Is it different?
Yeah, it might be a little bit different.
OK, go on. You're just going and just
observing. No thought, just observing.
And what that teaches you is that on a very, very micro,
micro level, nothing is constant.
Everything is dynamic. And so if that's then true, what

(39:05):
you learn is that fucking everything's dynamic.
Yeah, right. It's it's the weather, not a
weather forecast. It's this pain in your neck that
happens to be there. It's not going to be there.
It's not going to be there tomorrow.
It's not going to be the next day.
It's gone. It's gone.
And and what's the third meditation that that you do the

(39:25):
meta meta Ivana. That is, that is loving
kindness. And so once you have that
equanimity, what you're trying to do is to, you know, there's
there's a piece of you that recognizes at some point as
you're going through this process of Anapana and then
Vipassana, you recognize how really fucked up and miserable

(39:47):
people. Are.
Right. And, and there's a piece of you
when you realize that that you, it's not, it's not about I have
more money and you don't, or youhave more money and I don't, or
you live in California and I live in Vermont or any of that,
or you're Republican or you, I'mDemocrat.
That what you realize is that everybody suffering no matter

(40:10):
what. And so that creates the sense of
like, compassion and love. And understanding and others.
And So what you're doing is, is basically sending from from more
of a, from a balance point. You're sending out feelings of
compassion and loving kindness that you know, you're I hope

(40:33):
you're happy, but and and you know, I want you to be at peace.
And it's not like going to the grocery store and being to the
grocery clerk. Hey, how are you?
Have a nice day. I'm fine.
How are you? It's not you.
It is really driven by that feeling of of meta, which is
loving kindness. And so you're sharing that

(40:56):
wealth with Metroidvania to the entire.
World and makes me think a bit of a karma yoga I I had an
expert on and some stuff that you said right there.
It's quite similar to the karma yoga of like just seeing, not
seeing the the good, like a naive and everybody, but just

(41:16):
understanding that if that person is going through a hard
time and he's a Dick, while he'snot a Dick, he's just going
through something and he's doinghis best, he thinks.
And you got to have compassion for others and sympathy and
understanding that everybody hastrauma and everybody, this life
is hard. They're fucking everybody.
But everybody's gonna take this trauma and their perspective

(41:36):
completely different than another.
Two people can be abused and have completely two different
story. One can thrive from it and the
other one could be in PTSD for the rest of their life.
So having an understanding of why people are the way they are,
man, it's a, it's a really refreshing understanding that
for the first. Time.
Because we were the only one in the world living something.

(42:00):
Went this way and that So this is not I'm going to ask you to
and your listeners to do something right now and then and
and and this will prove this to you.
Think of the last time that you were an asshole to somebody, or
you were, or you are a Dick, right?
Think about that moment now think about what was going on

(42:24):
around that time. I bet you didn't become a
instant Dick. It wasn't like you were like
here and then boom, you were youwere crazy.
There was a build up you had before you said something shitty
to somebody. There was a whole bunch of stuff
that was going on in your mind. You were rolling in it, you were
bubbling in it, you were boilingin it.

(42:45):
This stuff was going on and on and on and on and on and on and
on. You were suffering until that
that that asshole comment you made, that shithead behavior.
You did what didn't just happen.There was a lot of suffering
that you had to go through in order to get to that point where
you were a Dick. And then I bet after you were an

(43:10):
asshole to that person, after you made your Dick comment, you
weren't just like, oh, I'm cool.I bet for like minutes, hours,
maybe days afterwards you were like that fucker.
I can't believe they're going onand on and on and on.
So, so when somebody is an asshole to you, this is, I mean,

(43:31):
this is your own experience. I'm not making this shit up.
You can see this in your own life.
Before you were that mean spirited person.
There was all this garbage beforehand.
You were me and there was all this garbage afterwards.
So there's a lot of that person who does that really has been
suffering for days and days and days or hours and hours and

(43:51):
hours. And probably you're going to
continue to suffer for days and days and days and hours and
hours and hours until that's done.
And then who knows, they might see your picture and they're
back again. I can't believe they did this
four years ago. They never.
True when we start analyzing of why we were date that day well

(44:12):
if we start understanding of whythat person's a Dick right now
you're like OK, he's probably going through something and the
fact that I shouldn't attack himback and just walk away.
Yeah yeah. Wow, that that is some solid
advice. Honestly, I've heard a lot of
people talk about why you gotta find your true north your true
north, but you want people to find their true.

(44:35):
I don't know how is it as Yeah, as you.
Can you talk us what the hell this is?
And what's the difference reallybetween the North Star that
everybody tells us to go get? Well, you really did do your
research. Bro you, you don't even imagine.
Wow. Yeah.
So when I was trying to when I started my coaching practice in

(44:56):
2006, I was thinking about something like true North.
And when you think about that piece, what does that say?
What does that say? That says there's One Direction
and that's the right direction. North, right?
S could be fucking just as good as North.
Southeast. And so I the, the key is not to

(45:21):
find true north, which is somebody else's
conceptualization of what's right for you.
It's to figure out what's right for you and that and go for it.
And so here's some math stuff, some geometry stuff for folks in
a circle. There is 360°, right?

(45:42):
The 90° is a right angle. Yeah, this book, that's 90°,
right? And so this book, 4 * 9 * 4 is
360°. And so each on a compass, each
of those degrees is called an azimuth.

(46:02):
OK. And so the idea behind this is
to figure out what your true azimuth is.
For you, for you, for you. Exactly.
You and that's that's for a couple of things.
Number one, it's the direction that you want to go to in your
life. You got to be clear on that
piece. But the other piece that you

(46:23):
really need to be clear on that most people aren't clear on are
the magnetic poles in your life.Now we just talked about how
many did I work for Outward Bound took people hiking around
in the woods. We used compass.
That's where this came from. And so you couldn't.
You cannot just take a compass and go wander around in the
woods. As the compass.

(46:43):
Doesn't point to the north. There is.
It points. To a magnetic point on the
Earth, which changes a little bit over time.
It's a little bit different thanit was 20 years ago, and 20
years from now it's going to be just a little bit different,
that magnetic piece. So you have to figure out where
you're at on the planet in relation to that magnetic piece,

(47:07):
and then you have to adjust the compass so that when you think
you're really going east, you are going east and not going SE
because you didn't adjust the compass correctly.
And then you're lost in the middle of nowhere.
And so the two pieces are to know where you want to go and

(47:28):
then identify the magnetic polesin your life that are going to
keep you from getting there. And those magnetic poles come
from your parents, your religion, your friends, right?
We were talking about somebody trying to stay sober, right?
And if they're hanging out with their friends who are drinking

(47:48):
that magnetic pool is to continue to drink if you don't
go in that. Corridor, well, you won't get
pulled in that, so you just got avoid, avoid those corridors.
Yeah, that is. Solid.
Here's the uncomfortable truth section.
So I'm going to ask you questions about uncomfortable
truths in this life and let's see where you go with this.

(48:10):
What's an aspect of psychedelicsthat you believe is
misrepresented by movies and media?
I think that the. The aspect of psychedelics that
that's really misrepresented there is that psychedelics are
inherently bad and that if you take a psychedelic you're going
to be off the deep end and there's no come.

(48:31):
It's going to make you crazy. Now, it could make you crazy.
I'm not. I'm not saying that it won't
make you crazy. I mean, if you could, you could
have a traumatic experience and be crazy.
I mean, there's lots of things that can make you crazy.
And so it really comes down to if you're taking psychedelics,
making sure that you're getting,you're taking it from a

(48:52):
reputable source. So you're not taking Drano or
whatever the fuck. Yeah, but.
Also making sure that. Your.
Learn, you know. There's we, we know with alcohol
and this is the, this is the same thing for, for marijuana.
This is why I'm so critical about marijuana legalization.
We know for alcohol like that, and they do this in DWI like a

(49:16):
shot of liquor equals a beer, which equals a glass of wine,
right? So, so we roughly know that.
We also know that takes about anhour for a drink to get out of
your system. So if you, you know, have two
shots in an hour, you're going to feel mildly tooted.
If you have 3 or 4, you're gonnayou're, you're definitely not

(49:39):
going to be OK to drive. You gotta wait for that time to
pass for it to be on your system.
We don't know that for marijuana.
We don't know that for psychedelics.
We need to know that. We need to know.
That. So that people can make informed
decisions. This whole thing of like, what
do they say? Start low and go slow?

(50:00):
It's just bullshit. It's just bullshit.
I mean, Can you imagine if people said that with alcohol
and go? Slow.
Right. Well, I don't know what I'm
drinking, but I'm drinking it now.
Fucked up. Now we we know there is a
difference if you go to buy liquor in the United States.
We know there's a difference between 20 proof liquor.

(50:25):
And. 80 proof vodka and we know that, you know, 110 proof, you
know, bourbon or Sailor Jerry orsomething like that that's got a
higher proof, has got more liquor in it and it's going to
hit you faster. We need to know the.
Same thing for psychedelics. We need to do the same thing for
marijuana because otherwise people, it's a crapshoot.

(50:49):
And now? What's the hardest fruit you
realize in your career or life? Hardest.
Truth, um. I I'm still learning it and that
is what we talked about earlier.It's the weather and not the
weather forecast. Fucking.

(51:10):
Easy. Absolutely.
Like, yeah, I know what? That is.
And but to really, I just went through this a couple days ago.
I am in this in my latest book. This is my fucking Amazon story
and my latest book. I sent a copy.

(51:30):
I got a hard copy of this and sent it to the, the person that
I there, there's, there's a person I talk about in this
book. And so I sent this copy of this
book to this person so they could read it.
Umm, well, fucking Amazon. Um, I don't think they gave me
them their money back. They're like, oh, you should

(51:51):
have waited 24 hours before. You asked a copy I, I.
Ordered author copies and while I was working on the book I
wanted to work on the cover. Amazon won't let you work on the
cover until you've uploaded A manuscript.
So I uploaded a bullshit manuscript.
It was just to start the cover. Just to just to get it going so

(52:12):
I could work. On the fucking cover.
And I mean, there were there sentences in the in my bullshit
manuscripts that are just like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. So I rewrote it.
Chapter 8 became chapter 14. When I wrote it, things were out
of order. I said things about the guy that
I wrote in this book that, you know, weren't true.
I just put it in there just so Ican have I was trying to do

(52:35):
space holders. And because it wasn't done
right, you would eat the cookie dough and think, oh, that's what
the cookie days like. Well fucking Amazon sent the
city copy to him. Instead of a.
Good copy to him. So when I realized it, I sent

(52:59):
the I sent a new copy. He got it the day after.
He got the shitty copy on Wednesday last week, got the
shitty cop on Wednesday. I sent him a message said please
don't read it, Totally fucked. Up you.
Read. What I just sent you.
A new. Copy is coming.
Tomorrow, throw the old copy away.

(53:21):
And. Keep the new copy and I had
written, I did an inscription inthe book I wrote, you know, a
really nice. I said, I'll write you another
inscription, but please throw the old copy away and, and keep
the new copy. And for God's sake, because
this, this copy that I have hereis actually the shitty copy
because Amazon still hasn't sentme their new the revised copy.

(53:43):
This one went Live Today. So I said to him, please,
please, please not, do not, not,don't just throw the old copy
away, but look at the new copy. Please tell me that what was
Chapter 8 is now Chapter 14. 14 should be you.
Know the mirror. Within and not, you know,
longing. And so just let me know.

(54:06):
Well, I think I sent him that message on Thursday.
On Friday I didn't hear from them.
On Saturday I sent them a message and said hey, really
need to know is. This new copy that.
You got the new copy or is the shitty copy because I got to fix

(54:29):
it with Amazon before Tuesday because this coming out on
Tuesday and and did you throw the old copy away?
No response. No response.
It's just the weather. There's no response.
I turned it into a weather forecast forecast.
Remember when it was like, I'm cold and this that?

(54:50):
I'm like, I'm like, he fucking read the first book.
He's really pissed at me. I shouldn't have there.
Why did I fucking? Why didn't I trust Amazon?
Why does Oh my God, he's never going to speak to me again
because that's why he's not emailing me.
Who knows why fucking didn't e-mail me?
Yeah, but I created all this shit.
You create that drama on your head.
The weather. Weather forecast, yeah.

(55:12):
And and. And then yesterday I got a
message and it was just yes and yes.
So. He threw it away.
And he has the correct version. Well, all that.
Shit. From Saturday and Sunday was
totally made-up by me. It's so much.

(55:34):
Work in our head even you that you know that yeah yeah.
You can't make everything a weather forecast.
Even you right there you were triggered by the fact that
that's why we got analyzed why we're triggered and you you
managed to stop it. I was sort of point.
We still freaked out a day or two, yes.
Yeah. I kept saying to myself, this is
not the weather. I mean, this is not the weather

(55:55):
forecast. It's just you don't know what it
is not. And and so the best thing you
can say for you listeners when that's going on is I didn't
debate it. I was just like, fucking knock
it off. I'm not.
Like. I'm, I'm not even like, I bet,
you know, people in this weird political climate we are in that

(56:16):
have a certain belief and they would love to debate you and
nothing you can fucking say is going to change their opinion on
whatever it is, whether it's vaccines or Trump or this or
that or whatever. Nothing, nothing.
It's like, so you don't even waste your breath in getting an
argument with them because it's not going to go anywhere.
Well, you need to do the same with the voice.

(56:39):
In your head. It's not going to go anywhere to
waste your fucking breath. Just ignore it.
Tell it to shut up. And that's literally what I did.
That's a great example, Chris. Yeah, there's always that type
of people that were listed debate because they don't give a
shit what you say. They have something to say and
that's it. But that's the voice in your
head. Yeah.
Exactly about what? You.

(57:00):
What you're trying to do exactlywhat it has to say.
Is more important. When you look at the.
Bigger picture, what's somethingabout the world that no one
seems willing to confront but you realize it's It's one of the
keys to understanding our futurein this life the.
The biggest issue? And I've written about grief and
why that's an issue. But an even bigger issue is we

(57:23):
are sold this happiness myth. We are everything.
Wraps around. That from fucking Christmas to
Valentine's Day to the houses welive in and it's never ending.
If we're told we after you read this book, you'll be happy.
After you do this meditation, you'll be happy.

(57:43):
Psychedelics are even doing it now.
Once you've done this psychedelic, you'll be happy.
I had a person, I was on a psychedelic podcast and I shared
it with a person. And her response to me was, do
you think I should do psychedelics right?
Because she's like, because there's this piece of like, you
think I'll be happy once I'm done that no, you won't be happy
because that's not the goal of life.

(58:07):
Happy heads like at the lakes. It it it it it's a way like a an
opening for your mind actually. You can't be like, oh, you take
this and this will happen It's like, yeah you never know.
And every person's going to takesomething completely different
as well. Here's the truth of our.
Existence and we don't like this.
We don't people don't talk aboutthis.
The truth is, we're all going toget sick, you know?

(58:30):
We're all going to be. Miserable people around us are
going to die. You're going to fall in love.
And that that person, unless that person outlives you,
falling in love with that personis going to come with pain.
Period. You're going to feel really,
really crappy and we're all gonna die.
We're all we're gonna and, and so you, you know, my, my mom,

(58:53):
she lived to be 99 years old. And we people say they're like,
wow, how fucking unfortunate. And you're gonna be like, what?
Why? Why would you say that?
Right. See, we all want to live a long
life, but this is the part we don't say we want everybody in

(59:15):
everything we care about to outlive us.
Because if you. Live a long.
Life, you were going to experience death and loss and
grief over and over and over andover again.
My mom said to me. I that she.

(59:36):
Wasn't making any friends anymore.
And why wasn't she making any friends?
Because every time she made friends, they died.
Wow. That is some real shit right
there. It's an uncomfortable truth
about. Human nature that your career,
one of your careers, have shown you human.
Nature. I think that the piece that this

(59:57):
comes back to what I just talkedabout our human nature is that
we don't want to accept the reality of the truth, the truth.
We don't want to know the truth,right?
So, so we would rather believe that buying Alexis is going to
make us happy then to take the time to work on ourselves.
We would like to believe that buying a $5 app on our phone and

(01:00:23):
listening to it is what's going to make us happy.
Because that is easier than working on ourselves and and
there is nothing. There is nothing.
I don't know why we do it's it's.
Because. We want this shortcut.
Yeah, exactly. We want this shortcut.
We want to take an injection andmagically lose weight in a day

(01:00:48):
we want to take. A pill.
And and so all these pill pushers that are out there that
are trying to give us pills fromeverything from weight loss to
depression and everything fucking in between are praying
on us because we don't want to do the work.
And we're hoping for that. They just know that.

(01:01:08):
So they're like the snake, you know, you see these people snake
oil and like the 1800s, they'd be out West and they'd be like,
it was basically alcohol. And they, you know, be like
here, this will solve this issue, drink this.
And they people take that elixir.
And so, you know, like it's something crazy, like, you know,
16% of the population or take. So 16 out of every 100 people

(01:01:31):
listening to this podcast are probably taking an
antidepressant. Yeah.
And then the in the US. Is a 44% of people are automatic
medication. It's incredible because the
doctor just wants to settle thatproblem.
So you're in his office, he gives you appeal, you're gone.
He settled the problem for him, but it didn't fix your problem.

(01:01:51):
You're you're, you just have smarties now in the morning to
eat. Like when I went to see my
neighbor in the morning for the first time, I smoked weed with
her. She's 74 years old and amazing
person. And first time I arrived at 8
something in the morning and I was sitting out in the fields
that type. I'm like, what is this?
These are smarties or something like no, no Sam, I got to take
one of these one that was 7 different colours.

(01:02:11):
And I was like, I was shocked that I did not know that she was
taking that that many pills. But that's the system there, and
it's so fucking incredible. Yeah, giving.
Back for me is so. Important.
That's why I started making others read.
You've been giving back by volunteer, volunteering as an
EMT instructor, A firefighter, amaster gardener for your

(01:02:35):
community, and also running a nonprofit for a farm animal
rescue. That is very inspiring.
How did you first start the Animal Farm Rescue and why do
you think it's so important to give back in this life?
Well, I'll. Answer the first, the second.
Question first, it's important to give back.
It's it's, it's there's a there's something that you get

(01:02:58):
and you actually get it by goingafter it.
And what you get from giving back is a smaller sense of self.
We go around with these big puffy egos, this big eye.
This is who I am. And.
We get everything we do around this happiness bullshit feeds
into that eye. I drive Alexis, I drive a BMW.

(01:03:23):
I went to Harvard, I went to so and so I have this house.
I do this. I went on vacation last month
too. You know where that's fucking
incredible because I'm such an incredible fucking person.
It's service deflates that ego. Absolutely, unless.

(01:03:46):
There are some people. That do the service and then
they're like yes, because I am incredible, you see.
The people you will see. Them right, We see that in the
fire department. There's some people in the fire
department that are like, yes, I'm a firefighter, that's who I
am. You're missing the point, you
know. Interestingly enough, of of all
the volunteer stuff I did, you know the animals don't give you

(01:04:08):
that. The animals don't give a shit
about who you are. They just want to be, again,
food. And so one of the most
meaningful pieces I do each weekis I volunteer to teach Tai chi
for the elderly. And we meet each week, each week
outside. So if you're in Vermont and
you're up near Bradford, every Tuesday at 10:00, we're outside.

(01:04:30):
No matter what the fucking weather is.
I'm telling you, we've been outside when it's been 6° below
0. It's been raining people outside
on Tuesday at 10 AM doing Tai chi in the on the grass in this
little park. And all these people drive by
because we're right by a road. And some people will toot the

(01:04:51):
horn like every, you know, we'redoing the shoot the horn.
And I said, I said to them this morning, it's Tuesday and we're
recording this Tuesday afternoon.
I said to them this morning, I said, do you ever wonder like
these people just driving by Tooting the horn, like you want
to turn to them and say, why don't you fucking just come and
do Titan instead of tuning the horns?
But there's it. It helps deflate your ego,

(01:05:15):
having service. That's the real benefit of this
stuff, because we all think. That that we're we're like
everything revolves around us until you start giving back.
When I started giving back threeyears ago, like a, it was
attached. To a thrift shop that.
We're throwing out 400 to 600 books a week, and after the
first week I'm like, OK, we're not going to do that anymore.

(01:05:37):
They're like, what are you talking about?
Like the books you're throwing them out.
What the fuck? Somebody publish a book, he
publishes 50,000 copies. Well, you're throwing some of
those out. Like what the fuck?
There's so many people that can't even buy those books.
Why don't we just give them? They're like, oh Sam, we don't
have time to give them all. It's OK, Then put my fucking
name on the box. I got it.

(01:05:57):
I got it. It's all good and I took it.
I took it from there and seeing those people when I arrived into
the city with my my hatchback filled to the roof and, and
books, I'm telling you, the car there looks broken down.
How much is stuck on the road, how much books are heavy shit.
And that that that feeling of gratification I get to seeing

(01:06:17):
those people run towards those blocks that are always empty and
I'm the only one filling them. It's been three years.
That is worth everything for me.And when I come back home, I'm
telling you people, I got this high inside me and in my heart
there for like 3-4 days of what I did right there was a bigger
than me, myself, who the fuck I am?

(01:06:37):
Because I, I'm helping as somebody, I'm giving advice, I'm
giving a hand down by giving those books.
And that's where the real validation and gratification we
should get it. Absolutely.
You hide that this. End the entire Appalachian Trail
that is 2190 thousand miles. What an incredible journey and

(01:06:59):
feet honestly there I'm a quite in good shape, but that is
something special that stretchesfrom Georgia to Maine and this
takes about 5-7 months to complete.
So and you need to be outdoor the whole time.
So how long did it take you? And like, why did you push
yourself on an adventure that massive?

(01:07:22):
Yeah, it's it's funny. I have a, I have a friend who is
hiking the Appalachian trails and it's actually my housemates
brother and he's he's, he's beenon the he loves to go on hiking
on the trail. And you know, these days when
people hike on the Appalachian Trail, everything's plugged in.
Like he even has a drone with him and the drone.

(01:07:42):
Can follow. Him along, he's doing like video
blogs and when I did the trail, we didn't even have fucking
cell. This was what I hiked the
Appalachian Trail was in 1987. I.
Said OK. So no phone, nothing I.
I had to you. Had to bring.

(01:08:04):
You had to bring quarters and Dimes with you so you could use
a pay phone if you needed to useit because that because they
would pay for. There were no cell phones, there
were no computers. There were no, you know, you
know, there was no, I mean with Windows 95 came out in window in
1995. So what did you want to do

(01:08:26):
Something that. Massive like that is harder.
We're talking, we're not talkingabout marathon.
This is way longer like like what?
Why did you want to do somethingthat hurt?
First of all, it's it's really. Not that hard.
It's like the meditation course,right?
10 days? I don't think so.
It's it's. It is, you know, getting

(01:08:49):
through. It's like somebody staying
sober. You get through, you stay sober
a day at a time. Yeah, the beginning is really.
Hard Trail a day at a. Time a step at a time.
It's not about going from Main to Georgia or Georgia to Maine.
It's about going from mile 1 to mile 2 to mile 3, and then at

(01:09:17):
some point you're at, you know, in the 2000 range.
And how did you get there? Just to step up.
It's the same thing. It's a it seems daunting because
we live in a world that wants everybody to lose weight in a
day, right? If they, everybody knows.

(01:09:37):
I mean, maybe everybody knows. If you don't know this, your
best way to lose weight is a pound a week.
That's it. If you.
Lose a pound a week, you were gonna keep that weight off,
because what that means is that you've made a subtle shift in
your lifestyle that's knocking off a pound a week when we lose.

(01:09:57):
I don't know, people want to lose fucking 10 lbs in a month
or something like that. Crazy.
Well, that's crazy because your body doesn't want to live that
you didn't put on 10 lbs in one month.
You like? A huge amount of time.
So you can think that same thingoff.
It was the extra Oreo that you had.
It was the extra whatever it was, the less exercise that you

(01:10:19):
did. You replaced that.
And then little bit, little bit,little bit, you transform your
life. But we live in a world that
wants everything right there. Right there, yeah.
So so hiking the. Appalachian trails to in that
mindset of immediacy seems like a huge thing because it was, you
know, but it but it but it wasn't.

(01:10:41):
It was just like the meditation piece, step at a time, a little
bit, a little bit, a little bit by research.
I did online, I realized that one of the toughest long
distance hikes in Europe was theGR 20.
So you hiked across Corsica Mountains and it takes normally
15 days and it's a rough terrain.

(01:11:03):
I saw. I went to check it out there
people, this is not easy there. So how long did it take you and
what was so fulfilling of the completed that feat?
It's it's this is a great story because my I and this is
another, you know, another time,you know, I started my remember
I told you early on in this conversation about the scam of

(01:11:24):
the book, right? And and Brian always had my back
around this stuff was like you just got to do just fucking do
it yourself, right? Don't piss spend 5000, just do
the book. So a friend and I I was turning

(01:11:44):
50. Yeah, and he was turning 40.
And we were talking what we needto do something and I came out
and we need to do something to like show that we're like viral
studly guys, you know, otherwiseI got to buy a red sports car or
I don't know what the fuck. I have to do I.

(01:12:05):
Have to do something. So instead of doing that, let's
do let's do something. Let's go, let's go do something
and I don't care what it is. I said let's and we generated a
bunch of ideas. We we thought about Mount
Kilimanjaro. We talked about doing, you know,
circumambulating Mount Blanc, which there's a whole bunch of
shit that you could do around the world to kind of show your

(01:12:26):
studliness. On the top of my list was the GR
20 because like you just said Sam, this is the hardest
tracking. Trail in Europe and blah blah
blah and so. We, we, we decided.
What? We, I think we decided we were
going to do Kilimanjaro and so we were planning to do it.

(01:12:51):
I was like 49, he was 39 and it didn't happen.
Like didn't happen. So a year went by.
I was 51, he was 41. Brought up again.
What are we? Gonna do we're.
Gonna we're postponement, postponement.
Nothing, nothing, nothing. I remember I was like 52.

(01:13:14):
I was like really wearing on me and and we we.
Went to a concert together. And he had said something like,
you know what? I'm gonna do it because I got
the money now because I've rented this thing and I did this
thing and that thing is, is, is is partner with them and he's
like, I'm going to use the moneyfor that, for this.

(01:13:35):
And she turned and she said, no,you're not.
We're going to, you're going to use the money for me to do this.
And this this this this. I was.
Devastated, I came home that. Night and it was like this is
not going to happen. And Brian once again.

(01:13:55):
Sydney, he's like. Fuck that.
He said buy a plane ticket tomorrow.
I said I didn't even plan this thing.
I don't know how long it is. It's you know, I don't know what
we're going to do this. He's like, how long do you think
it's going to take you? He's like I said, I don't know
1516. Some people say 20 days.

(01:14:16):
I don't know. He's like, buy a ticket for 22
days and then and and then figure it out by the fucking
ticket tomorrow, he said. I said.
He said if it takes 15 days, youcan jerk off on the beach for
seven days. Who cares?
Just buy the fucking ticket and do this.
Stop waiting, right? But we, we, we spent our whole

(01:14:39):
life waiting for something to happen.
Exactly. And, and I did, I literally
bought the tickets to fly into nice.
I had no idea what I and I bought the plane ticket home. 22
days later, later I got a plane ticket at home.

(01:15:01):
And I'm like, all right, betweenthat chunk of time, I have to
figure out how I'm going to fucking hike this trail.
And, and that's how that really came about.
How long did it take actually? I I.
Finished, I, I took a break in the middle for a couple days,

(01:15:21):
which is really nice. And, and then I, and then I had
a couple of extra days in the end that I, that I had.
So I had more time than I, than I needed, but I stayed at a
youth hospital and then, you know, I explored, explored the,
you know, the, one of the towns in Corsica that was there.

(01:15:43):
I, you know, I, I checked that out and spent another couple of
days. It was, it was great.
You know I lied when I did the GR 20 because the people.
In course. Well, the people.
In Corsica, fucking hate everybody except people who are
Corsican and, and, and justifiably so, justifiably so

(01:16:07):
because they've been invaded by Italy.
They've been invaded. They, they, they're in France,
they're considered part of France.
But, and I didn't realize this to like, I mean, I knew this and
I had planned this because this was my big lie to folks, but I
didn't realize how bad it was they at the post office, like

(01:16:32):
this is this government post office.
They fly the Corsican flag abovethe flag of France.
I mean, you like going. To a.
Post office in like Texas, right?
And the Texas flag being above the flag in the United States,
like you, well, you might see that in some place in Texas, but

(01:16:53):
literally, that's how. That was.
And so they hated not of all thepeople that are out there, the
people that they hate more than anything else are Americans.
And that's because in World War 2, they were occupied by the
Germans. The people in Corsica drove the
Germans out like they literally drove the Germans out by taking

(01:17:17):
cattle and pouring oil on the cattle, lit the cattle on fire,
and then created a Stampede to drive the Germans.
Out like this is not. These are like really tough
people. Incredible.
So the day so. The the day after, nobody told

(01:17:40):
the Americans so America was like, we're going to come see
how American is we're. Going to come.
Save you. We're the great Americans.
The the the the the. The main city of Corsica is a
city called Bastia, and they theCorsicans drove the Germans out.
The day after they drove the Germans out.

(01:18:01):
The Americans, in an effort to drive the Germans out, bomb the
shit out of Bastia. They fucking hate Americans.
They. Fucking hate it.
So I was Canadian, I told my big.
I. Think I would have said the
same. I'm Canadian, but let's say it
was I I would be American. I think I would have flipped it

(01:18:23):
as well and. I'm their neighbor.
The The funny thing is. That there were these two, two
guys that I ended up kind of hooking up with and we hiked
together and I, I stupidly confessed that I, you know,
really wasn't Canadian. And so we're having dinner or

(01:18:45):
we're doing whatever and people are talking and they're like, so
Scott, where are you from in Canada?
What's the, what's, what's the, what's the, what's it like
living in the town that you say that you're from in Canada?
Where'd you go to high school inCanada?
They were asking me all these questions.
So I had to keep making believe.I didn't make all this shit up.

(01:19:06):
Because. They.
Knew that I was not from Canada and I could not answer any
questions about do nothing, but they were yeah, they just did
that to be shitheads. So did you have a?
Hard time with them until. The end of the No, they were
actually great. They were just.
They were. We actually became pretty good
friends through the whole hike because they saw that you were a

(01:19:28):
genuine good. Guy that everything, yeah.
You you completed the the. Long Trail, the Long Trail in
Vermont is America's longest long distance hiking trail and
from end to end, we're talking about 272 miles there.
And it's often a brutal terrain as well.
Do your research. I'm like.
So impressed bro. I take days of.

(01:19:50):
Research in each guess. I find it important because I
don't have a million subscribersso I I can't give you value like
that. But if I can give you value in
the time I take to do my research, for sure I will.
So and what made you want to achieve that?
And would you recommend the mostAmericans to try that?
I I would. I would recommend most Americans

(01:20:11):
to try any type of hiking, but why I say that one?
Because they don't. Need a plane ticket out?
They don't need a plane ticket. Out.
The nice thing about it, like you said, it's the IT was it's
the oldest long distance hiking trail in the United States.
And it's, you know, part of it is actually part of the
Appalachian Trail. Half of the long Trail is on the

(01:20:31):
app and half of the long trail is also part of the Appalachian
Trail. And the Appalachian Trail veers
off in the long Trail continues towards toward Canada.
It is a great experience to do it.
People planted every year and like hike in like rows from
usually from South to north. I did this with a friend and we,

(01:20:56):
we section right, because I livein Vermont and so, you know, the
launch trail is just right over there.
So we did this section in a weekend.
We did this other section in another week.
It logistically it took longer because you know, you in two
days hiking really meant four days of shit, right?
You got a day there, pack up, dothis, do this, you go there, you

(01:21:18):
hike for two days, you're out, you drive back.
There's more logistical stuff, but it was it was an easier
piece to do because it's right there, yeah, to be able to get.
Out and do that and. Train and and have that
experience as well. Worth it.
And if the trails really maintained really well, it's

(01:21:38):
it's like a highway, super highway where the Appalachian
Trail is, but past that it's a little bit more sketchy, but
it's still maintained really well all the way to Canada is.
Awesome from being a substance abuse professional and a
licensed substance abuse counselor, from helping a
recover from a drug and alcohol addiction to the polar opposite

(01:22:01):
people, to psychedelic integrational coach helping
people process it and integrate experience of psychedelics.
And like psycho, I came as a psycho bitch.
Yeah, that's it. I owasco or DMT or magic
mushrooms into their lives. Why do you find it important to
have expertise and literally completely two different sides

(01:22:22):
of that spectrum? Well, yeah, on some.
Ways it seems like it's it it ison two different sides of that
spectrum and I guess, you know, being drug free and then using a
drug to figure out something is seeing can be seen as polar
opposites. But I'm telling you as a
substance abuse counselor, in the last few years, so many

(01:22:44):
people came in and this medication oriented fucking
society and they're like, oh, you know what, Budweiser?
Is not your. Problem.
You're depressed, so let me get you on some Seroquel.
It's going to put that in on fucking it goes.
And so and and what do you call when someone tries to get sober

(01:23:05):
off of drugs and then they go toa drug rehab and they come out
on drugs to modify their feelings that they were using
the drugs in the 1st place to deal with.
OK, so the the again, like thesepieces, I saw these gaps in in

(01:23:26):
like I did with paddleboarding, you know, and one of the gaps
that I saw in psychedelics was this aspect of engagement.
And there's two aspects of someone's if somebody wants to
use and this isn't rocket science either.
If someone wants to use psychedelics and have it work
therapeutically, there's only there the in in traditional

(01:23:49):
psychedelic medicine right now. There's preparation and
integration, not big rocket science stuff.
Like I said, it's the same thingthat I used to do an Outward
Bound people used to come for like a peak experience, do a
ropes course, used to take people and used to climb up some
rock face and do something and just doing it was meaningless,

(01:24:12):
just doing. The Outward Bound.
Course. Yeah, neither.
It's the preparation that's. Important and the integration
afterwards, it's the what am I going to do to get ready?
I've done it. Now what what can I learn from
this that I can apply to make mylife different?
I've had this meaningful thing happen.

(01:24:33):
It's the same thing that happenswhen people do these things and
they do fire walks, right? There's lots of people do that,
like one of the big coaches, Anthony Robbins, I mean, right,
it's Anthony. He Tony Robbins does this big
thing where he does fireworks onthis stuff.
Well, that fire walk is in. It's not a psychedelic

(01:24:53):
experience, but it's this peak thing that happens around stuff.
And so people then are like, oh fuck, I did that.
But what are you going to take away so that you can walk the
fire in your own life, right? All this preparation that you do
before you go, you, they just don't like the fire in the first
day. You get there and say what,
right. It's built.

(01:25:14):
Up and then that event as an integration.
And so the same thing is true with psychedelics.
And so the first thing I did wasI wrote, I actually did this
book psychedelic. Integration.
Workbook. So this is a 60 day workbook
that somebody can do after you've done your psychedelic
experience to take that and turnit into something meaningful in

(01:25:36):
your life. And of course you have to have
preparation. So I did the psychedelic
preparation workbook and this is60 days of getting ready.
Why I talk about Vipassana? And.
Anapana And then just recently Idid this piece on engagement
cause that's the missing piece in my mind.
Engagement is so poor to psychedelics and people don't

(01:25:58):
pay attention to it. It is like, think about the
things that we do in our life where we just aren't paying
attention and we're disengaged, right?
Could be walking from here to the bus, driving, focused on
this. We're driving.
We don't even remember going from point A to point B.
We're on autopilot like. We're on autopilot and.

(01:26:20):
So you want to make sure that for your psychedelic experience,
you're not just preparing, you're not just integrating, but
you're actually training your mind so that you can be fully
engaged, right? Because you could take the
psychedelics and be like what you do.
I just looked at the pretty colours and I forgot what I was

(01:26:41):
here for you. And you need to be conscious.
Of what you're living through throughout that experience or
else you're not learning really,you know, right, right.
So. That compelled me to write that
piece. And of course, just like you
know, it, Full disclosure, you know, I, I wrote the book on
paddle boarding once I started paddle boarding with the dogs.

(01:27:01):
And you know, I saw the gap and paddle boarding.
Well, I wrote the book on psychedelics once I started
doing psychedelics and I saw thegap in psychedelic medicine.
That and that's fucking awesome I.
Think I'm gonna go check out that those two books that for
sure for myself though. Here's the critical thinking
situations. Greatest lesson you learned in

(01:27:21):
your life or career that you still apply today?
It's back to that piece of the. Weather everything changes,
everything changes. We live in a world that we want
things to be static too. Dynamic to be fixed in one spot
for sure, and then the second piece.

(01:27:42):
Around that we when we talked about the voice in our head, we
talked about this earlier. That voice in our head is all
about me. These last couple days when I
was struggling with like the fuck up that Amazon did about
this book, I wasn't it was all about me.
My voice in my head was make. It was he's mad at me who read

(01:28:03):
this thing and now he doesn't want to talk to me.
He is gonna think that I am an idiot.
You know, all this stuff, me, mine, eye, it all revolves
around this. And here's here's the other
piece. This is going to sound really
weird. We think that we only.

(01:28:25):
Refer to these. Things like me, mine and mine
because it's it's and and you hear people say this height, you
know, airy fairy shit like we'reall energy.
And it may sound like you know. Here's another way to look at
that if. You're if you're Downing those
pieces without even needing, youdon't have to really buy into

(01:28:45):
this stuff. We know what a tornado.
Is you've. Seen a tornado on TV, right?
We can see an image and we say that's the tornado.
That's a big tornado, right? But at its core, that tornado.
Is just wind. That it's just air, it's just
movement of air, but it's created this solidified thing

(01:29:07):
that is it's transient. You know, we want to hold on to
these things of me, mine and I and all this other stuff.
So we try to make this around things that are solidified, and
then we make the mistake of assuming that everything else is
that way too. But it's not.
None of it is. None of it is.

(01:29:28):
Name three things. That.
People should try at least once in their life psychedelics.
Psychedelics and psychedelics, Ilike it.
Can you share an instance where your intuition or gut feeling
led you to make a decision that challenged the traditional logic
or expectation? Oh, I already told you about it.

(01:29:49):
Both Fucking. And hoodwinked into going in.
And God, I got hoodwinked going in.
I would have never gone and I would have never stayed if it
wasn't for the compassion of that teacher.
Because everything told me that this was wrong and this wasn't
there and I would have been a couple.
We would not be talking about this shit right now.

(01:30:10):
Isn't that incredible? Lane when?
Somebody knows that you don't really understand something,
that that's why you didn't like it.
And he was like, I just stay another day.
Like, because he's not saying. Oh, yeah, you're gonna,
everything's going to be fun tomorrow.
No, because he doesn't understand yet.
Just come back one day when you do understand, you're gonna
understand why that person was pushing in the right direction.

(01:30:31):
And it's incredible how much thepower of someone has when you
have a belief and you want that other person to understand.
Because I like my, my dad said in construction is like, I could
tell anybody to build the wall, but if I teach him how to build
the wall. And that's why you got to build
it that way because there's a reason.

(01:30:51):
Well, when he's gonna build thatwall every time wall is gonna be
flawless cause he understands why he's building it the way
that it can look the same at theend.
But if he doesn't know why you're building it that way,
it's not going to be as as solidas if you know why you're doing
something and that that's just going through.
The motions exactly, exactly. What's your your favorite, your

(01:31:14):
personal favorite achievement, either in your career or your
life? Your life that you are most
proud of, boy. Oh.
It was being in a. Loving monogamous relationship
for 31 years. That's what that's.
What your partner that. Passed away.

(01:31:34):
Yeah, yeah, Brian and. I were together for 30.
One years we didn't cheat on each other, we didn't leave each
other, we didn't break up. It was really tough.
It was, see, this is the other fucked up thing.
We expect even relationships to be fucking easy and then people
don't put the work into them andthen they wonder why everything
goes to hell in a handbag. It's like, I'm well, how did I
get fat? Well, it just, it didn't happen

(01:31:56):
suddenly. Well, how did my relationship
fall apart? Well, it didn't fucking just
happen suddenly, you know, it happened on day one when you
stopped and, and, and we one of the things that we did, it was I
don't know. Why we did this?
But I, and then I think part of it was my parents and what we

(01:32:18):
were told, but we had agreed that we were, we were, we were
in it, we and we and we actually, the word that we use
is we threw the parachutes away so we would never, ever, there's
no turning back ever. Say.
Maybe this isn't going to work out.
Maybe we shouldn't. We shouldn't be together.

(01:32:41):
We. Were and.
See, this is the thing, this is the, this is the piece.
This is really, really important.
When we treat. Other human beings as
disposable. They're easy to be disposed of.
When we treat our body as disposable, it's easy to be

(01:33:04):
disposed of Absolutely so. When we took.
That off the table, We took thatoff the table and said it's not.
I don't give a fucking shit if if you're gonna go to prison,
I'm staying with you. I'm there.
We're. Going to.
Be together if if. You get cancer.

(01:33:26):
I'm saying if you lost, if you got an accident and lost your
lower body parts and we could not have sex again, we'll figure
it out. I'm not leaving you.
I'm name three things that people should try at.
Least once in their life, so. It's not leaving you
psychedelic. And when you take that, this is
this is the piece, this is you. You only have two choices.

(01:33:50):
You either have to endure shit and misery, or you have to fix
it before it turns to shit. If your.
Commitment is supposed to be there when we treat our body.
Then you have to fix it. It's easy cause you cause you
made a commitment to be there. So when we took that off, but

(01:34:11):
that's a commitment we make. We took that off the.
Table and said. It's not fucking.
I don't give a fucking shit if you're gonna go to prison.
I'm staying better there. We're going.
To work together. People don't fucking leave that
especially. Yeah, yeah, they don't.
Mean it? No, because now we're

(01:34:32):
especially. In in the world of a menu online
there so at people instead of working on their relationship,
trying to fix it because you build this relationship, you
don't just have a perfect relationship, you build it Well,
the people are like, oh, this isnot perfect.
Well, obviously nothing's perfect.
But people are like, oh, but I got 32 guys that say I'm
beautiful and perfect today or Igot 3 girls that I matched with.

(01:34:53):
So the the easy way is not a meeting a new person and
restart. No, no easy way is sitting down
with the fucking person you already care about and love and
fucking build together. Like not not like a lot of
people. Like when they have problems in
their relationship, instead of talking about to their partner
of the problem, they talk about to the rest of the people have

(01:35:15):
this problem, this problem, Well, that's not fixing it.
It's by sitting with that personand figuring it out, not running
away from your problems. Am earlier we were talking and I
said one of the truths said thatpeople avoid is that there's
sickness, misery and death that we all endure endure.
And that's one of the there's there's going to be misery in

(01:35:35):
your relationship and the question is what are you going
to do and how are you going to handle it when it comes not
jumping out the airplane becausethere's some turbulence and you
got a parachute, that's not going to fix it because you're
going to go on to the next thingand then the next thing and the
next thing. It's the same thing that people
do with fucking bad diets. That didn't work.

(01:35:55):
That didn't work. That didn't work.
That didn't work. That didn't work.
No, they you didn't work. Yeah.
You didn't work. And is there a theory in?
Particular that you believe thatmost people would be surprised
about. Not that much, I mean would.
You be surprised that I can you.You've heard all my theories.

(01:36:19):
I've written books about that. Yeah, you don't need to have an.
Answer for that one. It's all good.
How did you become involved in the the world of marijuana,
legalized illegal ization? And what do you think?
Do you think it will create a disaster for our society like in
the future? Yeah.
Why is that? You go see I'm.

(01:36:41):
Running. I only have three books.
Remember that big huge pile I started off with?
Every time I held up a book, I like set it to the side, and so
we're working our way down. So this is that book that I he's
talking about right here and so the.
I'm not against marijuana use. Great.
I. I use marijuana, but I'm against

(01:37:04):
is and again, this is just this is this reflects this like,
let's get it all done. Let's take the magic pill.
Let's lose weight in a day with a shot.
Let's it's the same thing with marijuana.
So the first thing is that marijuana is getting passed in
this country with a sidebar around medicalization, right?

(01:37:27):
And it's all medical terminology.
So we do not go to where? When we when you want to go, let
me Sam, when you want to get groceries, what do you go to?
The grocery? What grocery store?
When? You want to get.
Liquor. Where do you go to the liquor?
What liquor store when you? Want to get marijuana?
Where do you go? The marijuana store.

(01:37:51):
In most of the places it's the marijuana dispensary.
Ohe here it's called the S. QDC so.
What's QDC stand? For.
Yeah, I I got I gotta Google it there, but it's a, the QC is for
Quebec there in particular, I bet it's.
A bet. I bet it's a medical spin.

(01:38:13):
I bet it's a medical spin. Maybe when you when.
You. Take here in the United States
with someone takes a go and get has some cookies or something.
It's called the serving, right. We refer to marijuana as doses,
right? It's got all this medical
terminology right. And in most places, recreational

(01:38:38):
use followed medical approval. People got it approved for
people that had marijuana medical cards, kind of medical
card, and there was a. Whole.
Market, black market, everybody was rushing off to be like I'm
fucked up, I'm fucked up, I needmarijuana even yes, everybody
wanted a medical card and then recreation came by and so there

(01:39:02):
are these people that are still like, you know, that's out
there. Here's the problem that's going
to happen because of that, we'regoing to get to a point like
this would never happen if somebody was said.
You know what? I have to do a PowerPoint
presentation this afternoon at work.
I have to speak to, you know, 60people about the changes in the
and that are coming to this division of the company.

(01:39:24):
I'm really nervous about it. I'm afraid I'm not good at
speaking. I don't like talking in front of
people. I'm so anxious.
I think I'm going to go to lunchand have 4 vodka tonics.
Would be like what? What but?
We're going to get to the point where someone's going to be
like, you know what, I'm anxious.
I have anxiety. I don't feel good.
I have to. I have to take marijuana to help

(01:39:46):
me with my feelings, and so everyone's going to be fucking
stoned on this stuff because no one's gonna be dealing with
their feelings and they're gonnabe like, Oh no, you're keeping
my medicine away from me. We would never.
Refer. To Bloody Marys as medicine, we.

(01:40:07):
Would not we would not be like. You know what?
I need to take my medicine today.
I think I'm gonna go have a pinacolada because it's going to
help me with my anxiety. I need to get, you see the
movies, right? Someone takes a, you know, a
shot of Jack Daniels to, you know, get some courage to go do
something. But you know, that's not
considered medicine. But this is where we're going to

(01:40:29):
go with this whole piece. It's because people did piss
poor public planning around this.
They just passed it. It's the same thing if you it's
the same thing that got potbellypigs, Peacocks, and snakes on
airplanes as fucking service animals because the United
States did a shitty job around public policy around what is a

(01:40:52):
good service animal, and next thing you know, people were
bringing God knows what. You have a horse.
This is my this. Is my emotional support animal
and they've had to really tighten it up and it's still a
scam. People can scam around that to
bring, you know, get your dog tofly for free.
Just claim it's a service animalby a vested Amazon for 10 bucks

(01:41:14):
and hopefully it doesn't bite anybody and get it on the plane
and they have to fly for free. It's crazy and that's the same.
It's the same mechanism. Piss poor plug, public planning.
The other piece that's we talkedabout this earlier when I talked
about alcohol, you know, there is there's no way to measure

(01:41:38):
anything on any of these marijuana products that are out
there. Yeah, I'm.
Not saying get. Rid of numbers are vague as
well. We need a consistent.
You know, we need a consistent thing, and I don't know what
it's called, but we need a consistent thing so that you
know that this marijuana potato chip or whatever the fuck it is,

(01:41:59):
it's going to have this amount of marijuana in it that's going
to impact you this way and we get more.
Data from. A bag of Oreo cookies, right?
This is how. Much fat is in it, yeah.

(01:42:19):
We get none of that. From.
These marijuana products, right?And so what's going to happen is
that the shit's going to hit thefan on these states like
including Vermont that passed usall Willy nilly, and then all
these legislators are going to be guru because they did a
shitty job anticipating these problems.

(01:42:41):
And I I checked. The SDC and it's a Society of
Quebec of cannabis. So that's it.
You, you don't go to the society.
Society of Quebec for liquor, right?
It's just, it's this racket. But I think so because I think.

(01:43:02):
The alcohol place in Canada is called the SOQL, the Society.
Of alcohol in. Quebec.
Oh yeah. Maybe it's only America.
That's going to. Be fucked up, not.
Canada, it's only Quebec QC there did this for for all the
businesses like if you have a business that in Quebec and now

(01:43:22):
you want to call it like for example, my nonprofit making
others read. Well, no, no, you can't have
that. You're gonna need to put it
small like this and put on top of it Sam Felipe in French.
So that French. Oh yeah, Yeah.
But it's incredible, even, Yeah,that you have to tell you.
I don't mean any disrespect. No, it's all good looks if I say

(01:43:43):
this. And so I was, you know, paddle
boarding. You heard my story about paddle
board. I was trying to find places to
paddle board, places I could go great.
And and go do this when we have all these national parks in the
United States, right? So there's state parks, which
are these, you know, and they're, they're OK, you know,
But then there are national parks that are run by the

(01:44:04):
country's big, you know, National Historic sites.
National Park Rangers are there.I mean, Trump's cutting them all
right now, but you know, they're, they're great places to
go to. And so I saw there's these parks
in Quebec and their national parks.
Well, I fucking thought they were national parks.

(01:44:27):
Well, they're not national parks.
If you go to the other probably in Canada, the equivalent of
states are provinces, right? And so the, the equivalent of
those national parks in Quebec are provincial parks and other
places, right? Because it's, you know, you go
to, you know, Ottawa, there's provincial parks in Ottawa,

(01:44:51):
right? Just like we have state parks in
the United States. So I went to these national
parks Canada. Expecting that.
They were going to be national parks United States, but it was
just the, you know, it was the, it was the province of Quebec
that were like, no, you might have provincial parks, but our

(01:45:13):
provincial parks because we are the true Canadians, our national
parks. I was so blown away when I went
and I was like, what's going on?Yeah, and most and.
Most are park, so we can't even be in it after 11:00 PM or else
the cops arrive and get you off the site.
It's like you like you think you're free.

(01:45:35):
You ain't free at all there. First time I moved to Broman,
the city I'm in, I'm doing some shrooms that night.
That's what's incredible about it.
I, I go to the little school that's right beside my place,
like 500 meters. I go to that to that school and
there's a swing. So I just start swinging fucking
high as shit, love the moment, stars are beautiful.

(01:45:55):
And then I just see a cop comingin not doing no sounds.
I'm not yelling or nothing. I see a cop coming in flashing
his lights like he knew I was there.
I was like God damn like what's the problem?
And since I just arrived in the city didn't give me a ticket but
they wanted they give me a ticket.
They were like oh it's 11:40 at night.
You should not be on the school ground or in a park.

(01:46:15):
I like what I mean that I didn'tdo a cry, but oh they don't
care. They have rules that literally,
so you're free inside your own home to walk around, but right
when you got outside, we got regular meditations everywhere.
It's incredible. I heard.
Behind a brand branches that youfound a solution to for these

(01:46:37):
different America marijuana products that have a like a
different effects and onset times.
I can't wait to hear about this like.
What did you figure? Out SO.
In that book that I was showing to you, I proposed a solution
for that and then I proposed an assessment piece for people

(01:46:59):
needing to figure out what needsto take place.
And it basically comes down to, and, and This is why it's so
could be so easy to do to have the packages labeled to figure
out how many grams and how much how much THC was in a particular
gram. That's what we need to be able

(01:47:20):
to figure out. And then we need to then take
into consideration how much somebody is actually taking in
because the method that we even take in is different.
So like if somebody takes in, let's just, I'm just going to
make a #5g of 5 milligrams of marijuana.

(01:47:44):
I'm just making that number justso we got something and they
take it as an edible. They're getting the full 5
milligrams. It's going into their system.
There's no if somebody is smoking a joint and that is
going on, that is how much of the marijuana is going into

(01:48:05):
their system is is only determined by how long they can
hold their breath. Because once they let it out,
they're letting out a certain amount of it's called the side
stream. Certain certain amount is just
going to waste. That's why Warriors of.
Of weeds are like you better keep it in bro what?

(01:48:27):
That's why, that's why I did tincture because because I know
exactly, you know, I know exactly what one drop is and
that's great. And fight if, if it's a two drop
evening, I'm going to do 2 dropsfor three drops for four drops
for five drops. And it makes it that much more
straightforward for taking that.You know, it's funny, I go here

(01:48:49):
in the United States, I just went for my physical and I
haven't had a physical in awhile.
And so the doctor had asked, asked me, they're like, and how
much are you drinking? You drink.
And so. You know, I was joking around.
I told her I drank. You know, you know, no more than
12 beers a night. And right, we know what we can

(01:49:10):
see. You laugh because we know what
12 beers a night is. We know what that means.
That means alcoholic. I asked.
Her I said, I said, don't you want to ask about my marijuana
use? And she said no, clueless.
And so I said she could ask it, but she has nothing.
Like that's it. Heard a note so so I told.

(01:49:35):
That to her and I said so is that bad or good?
She's like, I don't know, I. Mean she was honest she's.
Like, I don't know, I said, don't you think we should know?
Don't you think we should know the same thing?
Like, and now you're seeing studies coming out that's
saying, well, this amount given marijuana can be bad for you.

(01:49:56):
Like 2 years ago, nobody wrote anything about dangers of
mirror. Now they're like, well, this
could cause this and this, well,no shit, everything's going to
cause that. Like, you know, it's become pie
that's going to cause something.And and so we're seeing that,
but we're still not at the pointthat we can say, Oh, well,
you're doing this much, you maybe maybe you should cut back

(01:50:18):
a little bit. Yeah.
I think if they pushed the studies and to really, so we
have some stats on this, it would be even better for
especially for the the medical people that are trying to give
good advice to a patient that's coming up.
It's like if you, you don't takein consideration some of the
things he's suggesting. Well, I don't know.

(01:50:39):
I don't think you can have the real full answer at the end of
everything, that's for sure, right?
Yeah, and your opinion how? Does that MDMA assist in grief?
And how can grief be a gift for a lot of people that are like,
fucking discouraged so. Do.
You do you. Do you know what MDMA is?

(01:50:59):
Ohk damn right I do I I took some.
MDMA before. It's a it's a good drug and it.
Made me feel like a similar to ecstasy but a bit different for
sure. So for for.
People that are are taking MDMA,you know it.

(01:51:19):
It is not a drug that is going to make you hallucinate.
It's not a drug that is going tomake you get drowsy.
What MDMA does is it gives you this feeling of love.

(01:51:41):
It gives you this feeling. Of.
Of joy make it not not like a happy drunk.
You know how happy drunk is. Love you buddy, you're the.
Best thing, it's not that kind. Of, of it's, it really is like
true love, like you just feel really just really good and and

(01:52:02):
positive about it. And so MDMA therapy then takes
the MDMA and you take that and you work with the therapist.
So you just don't take it. It's not like it's not like the
it's not like taking silicide thin and you do a pre workbook

(01:52:22):
and then you know, you can potentially do this on your own.
If you got a good trip sitter, you could go and do this stuff
on your own and be OK. You really need a therapist
there to be able to work with you when you've taken the MDMA
to help you explore your trauma and dark sides.
And that therapist can't be new to you.

(01:52:45):
They you've had to be working with that therapist.
So they know, right? Because I mean, think about
there's probably shit that has happened that you haven't told
anybody. You at least have to the.
Therapist. Needs to know what the deep dark
shit is they if. They don't.
Know they can't help you. They can't help you because
you're going. To sit there just.
Feeling good. And so the idea of taking the

(01:53:07):
MDMA makes you feel good. And then you have a therapist
there who knows your deep dark secrets.
And then that therapist, while you're feeling good, asks you to
talk about those deep, dark secrets, secrets and thing and
issues that you couldn't talk about it before because they
were so hard for you. They were so burned into your

(01:53:32):
soul that you you couldn't go there.
You were just unable to do that.And so this, now this is an
oversimplification of that, but so the, the MDMA, I think of it
the way I describe it to folks, it kind of bubble wraps you so.
That the. Therapist.

(01:53:52):
Can poke at that stuff and you're not going to break right
because you got all. This bubble wrap?
Yeah. Yeah, you can do some stuff that
you haven't looked at before because you got this bubble
wrap. If you don't have a therapist
there, you just got bubble wrap,you're not doing anything.
Not going to happen. You have to have them both.

(01:54:14):
And then the second piece that happens is that you recall these
traumatic memories, and every time in the past you've recalled
them, they've been painful, you've cried, you've been angry,
there's been trauma. It's been just fucking awful.

(01:54:34):
This time when you're calling that out, there's a different
feeling, a feeling of love, a feeling of joy that somehow gets
reencoded with that experience. So it doesn't get rid of the
painful stuff, but it kind of mediates the painful stuff a

(01:54:55):
little bit. So that when you talk about it,
it's been there's been at least one time in your life where
you've talked about it and you're not drunk and you're not
wasted and your perceptions are still there, but the feelings
and the. Only the feelings are different.
That's what the piece that MDMA gives you and that's what it can
do with grief. That's I wrote a book about that

(01:55:16):
and that's what it can do with. That's why it's so powerful for
people who are have gone to war.You know, they're soldiers that
have gone to war and they've seen their buddies legs get
blown up on. They can't even talk about it,
right? They're just so fucked up from
it and people know. What?

(01:55:38):
They're fucked up. From and they do this MDMA piece
and it has a huge impact 1 dose 1 experience on this stuff.
We're not talking like take MDMAevery day for a month one.
Dose but. You have to have a therapist as
well as the MDMA for the shit towork and so.

(01:55:59):
Some. Because or else it just becomes.
Recurrent recreational. It's like you're just.
Getting high to get high. You know, watch a.
Movie. You know, talk.
To us about psychedelics. Experience is there some that
really changed everything for you that you were like, Oh my
God, like did you have a big realization or something big

(01:56:21):
that you felt during one of those incredible experiences?
I think for for me it was. Hallucinogenic mushrooms.
That's that, that was the big piece and the, and this the
piece for me because, and this is where engagement, that's this
is where the topic of engagementcame from and why I wrote the

(01:56:41):
book about that. Because I had practiced
meditation and Vipassana for so long.
I was really engaged with the psychedelic experience when I
took it. You know, I was very and in the
moment aware of all these things.
There were no other distractions.
You know, if you're, if you're going to do any of these

(01:57:01):
substances really, I mean, if you're going to do MDMA and
invest the time to have that experience of MDMA, then have
that experience of MDMA and don't dilute it with the
concert, with a, with a, with I don't know, whatever.
Have. That if you're going to do the

(01:57:24):
mushrooms, have that experience of mushrooms, don't dilute it
with, you know, oh, I found thisfestival, right.
We took one of the management wewe talked about is, you know,
you want to be engaged. I'm sure you've seen this or if
maybe you've known people that have done this when I'm not
talking about psychedelics at all here when I say this, let's

(01:57:44):
just say someone goes to a concert.
They've they've they, I don't IIA buddy went to see, I don't
know, but Donna's last tour, which is not going to be her
last tour. She just it's like all, you
know, this is my final tour. And so he went with some friends
who went to see Madonna. These tickets were like 500
bucks apiece. It was crazy.

(01:58:04):
And one of the people that went was so drunk.
They were like throwing up afterwards.
I don't even remember the concert right.
They spent all that money that was useful and then drank all
this alcohol. They might as well have been
passed out in the fucking bushesat home because they have 500
bucks right there. That's what they that's the.

(01:58:26):
Experience that they had right so they they were not engaged
with that concert at all, right.And so you want to be able to,
you know, well, it's because. I want.
To be able to on anything that Ido, I want to be there to
experience it fully, whatever that piece is, they want to.

(01:58:48):
Be. Getting.
On a roller coaster and you knowchecking my cell phone as we're
going up right I want to be looking around while I'm there
seeing what's going on so I can fully appreciate every role in
hill and dive and flip of that roller coaster and and that is
so true where you. Said, because I can compare that

(01:59:09):
to magic mushrooms. Like a lot of people, I asked
them, did you ever do mushrooms?And if they say yes, I'm like,
did you ever do it alone? They're like, no, why would I do
it alone? I'm like, OK, OK, well you can
be in party mode doing shrooms with your friends.
It's one experience. But if you're alone and you're
just thinking, I'm telling you, it changes your fucking life

(01:59:30):
forever, forever. I never thought of this in my
whole life there when I did it for the first time there alone
there. Oh my goodness.
Because instead of looking at for the exterior, like what can
I have to make my buzz more fun?You're looking at interior of
yourself. What are you thinking right now?

(01:59:51):
You are more. Engaged you just exactly and
understanding. What's going on in your mind?
And Indians back in, in the timethey used to take shrooms,
laying a teepee in total darkness and that they would
give all the questions of the city to that person before his
shrooms when he was lying there ice close and when the bus came

(02:00:12):
in and he's in the world while he had all the answers.
And it's not because he's smart or something, it's because
shrooms in particular, well, they attach.
Stuff and your brain like cords to really go deep and, and, and
really think of something. For example, there's stuff that
really shocked me when I was rethinking of stuff I lived

(02:00:35):
through stuff, stuff that happened situations instead of
seeing your fucking 2 shoes and what you felt at that moment or
instead of feeling what he felt because he's pissed or whatever.
No, no, you're feeling like there's a camera on the corner
of the room and you're seeing that whole thing.
Oh shit. And you're like, Oh my God, I

(02:00:55):
was so wrong there. I was so right there.
And it hits you like a fucking truck.
And that changed my life forever.
Because we all think we're rightin all the the arguments we had
in our life. But when you start looking back
at it, Oh my God, I never saw life again the same.
And everybody should take the time to at least do an
experience like that to really understand what you're going to.

(02:01:18):
That's a really gift that that's.
Exactly. Say what we were talking about
earlier. Remember I said it's all about I
me and whatever, right? You just said that like after
doing that, you when you have that camera that's looking at
you, you're not looking. It's it's not, it's no longer
about you. It's no longer.
About that argument or this. Thing or that it's it's you see
this like bigger connection. I can make.

(02:01:42):
Psychedelics can trigger an intense emotional experience for
for some for sure. How do you deal with a client or
somebody that had overwhelming feelings or insight during their
session? How do you make them comprehend
what they just went through? Well, hopefully that that.
They're not going to have overwhelming experiences because
they're going to be engaged and,and in the present, right?

(02:02:05):
So there's, there's two things that can happen, right?
You, you come here with this vision of what you want from
your psychedelic experience, andit's so good that you're off to,
I don't know where the fuck you're off to, but you're off to
lala land. It's really you're you and you
totally forgot about why you were there.
You were just having so much joyon this stuff.

(02:02:25):
You need someone to be like, so you need to be engaged.
The same thing can happen with the negative experience, right?
Because you go off in this direction and then it's it
becomes this horrific thing. Neither serve you not the good,
not the bad, because you're not present.
You've gone away. And from what your present

(02:02:47):
experience is with this, you've gone off script, you've gone off
course because you're not engaged.
And so the way to be engaged is the same way that, you know, the
these these last days when I wastelling you the story about the
book. Yeah.
And Peter and the guy and and all the stuff.
I was not engaged in life. I was I.

(02:03:10):
Was told I. Was engaged and I don't know
what the fuck it was Scott story, whatever was being
created, right, a bad Scott trip, right?
And it wasn't that acid, but I was on a bad Scott because of
that. And that same, that same dynamic
is the dynamic that can happen in a psychedelic experience.

(02:03:32):
And so you want you want to build the skills.
See, this is not something you can get from a workbook.
This is something that you have to build those skills over time
so that you're you're engaged and focused on those things.
The same thing that's going to keep you engaged and focused
when those thoughts come into your head about this.
And this is the same thing that's going to keep you engaged

(02:03:55):
and focused in a relationship soyou don't get a parachute and
jump out when the shit hits the fan.
And that's the same thing that'sgonna keep you engaged in
psychedelics. It's a skill to build.
Engagement is not a thing to do,It's a skill to build.
What's? On your bucket.
List coming up since you did so much in your life and wrote so

(02:04:17):
many books, Like do you have some stuff on your bucket list
coming up? Or new trails or adventure or
knowledge you want to go get in the near future.
One of the things. That's on my.
List for this. Year, although I just found out
I gotta figure this out next week I'm supposed to go because
I might need a replacement hip. We'll see.
That's what their sky got 2 replacement knees and they're

(02:04:37):
saying I might need a replacement hip or because my
bones are kind of your your youryour your hip bone or your hip
joint is in a joint like this and it's supposed to be, you
know, open for both. Mine is touching OHS shit so
they need to do. Something about but.
I have my plans this summer include doing a, another

(02:05:00):
obstacle race, mud obstacle racewith the dogs.
And then I have a front. Don't ask me how I did this.
When I, I, I used to do these long hikes, like 20 some miles
in a day. And so you know those that's,
it's like, it's like a hiking half marathon or a hiking
marathon. So a few years ago when I
started paddle boarding, I was looking for something I could do

(02:05:23):
on paddle board related to that.And so I decided there's a
river, Connecticut River, that runs the length of of Vermont,
New Hampshire, and it continues all the way down through
Massachusetts and out to the ocean.
But there's a big length betweenthat's pretty clear between, you
know, dams and stuff that are built up.
And so a few years ago I did 7 miles of paddle boarding in one

(02:05:50):
day and then the year after thatI.
Did I talked to a? Buddy and convinced him to join
me and we did 14 miles of paddleboarding.
And so do the math here as we'regoing through this last year,
last year we did 21 miles of paddle boarding in one day from

(02:06:16):
one point to this point. It was it was after some rain.
So the current was we have, we had some decent current.
Um, this year in August we're planning to do the math 4th
year, 7 * 428 miles of paddle boarding.
And so you're adding A7. Miles more every year and.

(02:06:38):
So incredible. So I'm.
What I'm, what I'm most nervous about now that I've started this
and I'm telling people this, is that you know what's going to
happen when I'm 70 years old andwe've been doing this for 10
years and 10 * 7 is 70 miles in one day.
I don't know if we're going to be there, but.

(02:07:02):
We we already talked. About doing 35 miles in 2026 so.
So if you're up in this area. In August in Vermont or you want
to come down, you can join us for you don't have to do the
whole thing. You can just for sure for sure
if I'm. Invited for sure.
I'm showing up to, to, to, to. Have that that adventure.

(02:07:26):
As well. So last question for for
somebody like me that doesn't know much in that how to become
a key speaker. For example, when I saw you were
toast master, I was like what the fuck is that?
Toastmaster. He's a guy.
That's expert in bread that's toasted.
It's like, what the hell? So I Google it and I'm like, Oh

(02:07:48):
my God, OK, it's just being an expert at speaking and stuff.
I'm I'm like, why did they call it toast?
Probably like I got a toast to say.
So how do? We, if somebody wants to start
in that I'm talking for myself in particular because for sure I
would love to become a key speaker or maybe start by doing

(02:08:11):
a, a speech in front of the people.
And where do we start to it's it's.
You really did do your research.I'm so blown away.
I'm so impressed. I appreciate that for.
For those. People that are listening,
Toastmasters is an organization that's been around for decades
and it is everywhere in the world.

(02:08:34):
It's everywhere in the world that if you Googled your town
and Googled Toastmasters, there's probably a Toastmasters
meeting happening tonight, tomorrow night or the next night
that you can go to. You can go and check it out.
And see what it's like. Toastmasters is not just about
public speaking. OK, People think of Toastmasters

(02:08:56):
and thinks it's great for publicspeaking, and it is.
But Toastmasters is also about leadership and confidence and
building your skills to engage and motivate and move others.
And you start just by going to aToastmasters meeting and you

(02:09:18):
don't have to join right then. And you don't have to join.
You can just go at some point. When you.
Say that you're OK, I'm interested, you can join and
they will give you there. There's these manuals, they're
little books that have tense speeches that you can go through

(02:09:39):
and do. And you do those speeches and
you do them with the people in your in your group.
They give you feedback. You're then at some point giving
people feedback. You're supporting other folks.
Toastmasters by far is the cheapest, most powerful personal

(02:09:59):
development program you can do because you're not only giving
speeches, but then you're givingspeeches on things that you're
interested in. And there's, there's even I
believe now a Toastmasters, theyhave different tracks that you
can do, like humorous this, you know, I think there's even a
track for podcasting so that youcan be more of an engaging

(02:10:22):
podcast interviewer or engaging podcast guests.
It was, it was my Toastmasters experience was something that
I'm really grateful I stumbled into.
It was just like the stupid, very passionate experience.
It was a buddy who was like, youshould go, go, go, do.
It. And I did it and found it so

(02:10:44):
beneficial that if you, if you go through all the program and
you do all the things at the very end, you can get bestowed
upon the title of distinguished Toastmasters, which is like
somebody getting, you know, yourbachelor's degree after
knowledge perfect. So I'm.
Going to check that out because right when I saw that, I'm like,

(02:11:06):
oh, for sure, I need to ask him at least one question about that
for myself. So I want to thank you for
coming on the podcast. You're, you're amazing.
And hopefully we can have you again and talk about all the
other stories that you can tell us.
Where can everybody find your socials and all your books?
All you have to do? Is.
Do like my name, wherever it is,right there.

(02:11:28):
Boom. Gee, Scott Graham.
Just Google that and everything will come up.
Even podcasts cause you know, you put Jesus Scott Graham in
there. Google loves that.
We'll find that. You can see all my books.
The books are available in Amazon, Google Play, Barnes and
Noble, Nook, every. They're available everywhere and
lots. Most of them are in ebook

(02:11:50):
format. Voice.
No, it's. Interesting.
You know, it's I, I, I'm actually on this book last week
I found an actor to you. This is the book that I sent you
that you were. Yeah, I found and I looked like
I said, I got to find somebody because this book isn't written

(02:12:11):
like the other books. It's almost here.
You can take a look at that. So there's a pay.
See it almost looks like poetry as you as you as you read
through the book. And so I wanted somebody to
really capture the bring it to life.
Yeah, and. This guy Mark Shock, I stumbled
upon him and he's got a whole bunch of different.

(02:12:33):
He's an actor. He's you can you can see him
dressed up as a pirate. He does like some daily, you
know, news and he's like got a pat and he's like and I'm like.
This guy. Might be the perfect person to
do this. He has nailed it.
It's awesome on that piece. Yeah.
So thanks again for coming on. It was.
An honor, it was an honor to have you.

(02:12:55):
So thanks again everybody and have a great weekend.

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