Elgin Hushbeck & Larissa Munz: Unmasking Consensus in a Divided World with Critical Thinking EP75

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Had I just had this conversationwith my kids this morning on the
way to school, paying attention?Yeah.
Paying attention to the world, knowing what's going on.
Don't take anything for granted,you know?
You never know what's going to come up, what's going to hit
you, where your next opportunityis going to be, where danger is.
Pay attention. Absolutely.

(00:22):
That's some solid ship when you look back at history that it's
so sad of how we discriminated and and pushed people out of not
giving them rights there. Well, you have to think the the
whole concept of rights was onlyabout 300 years old.
So yeah, you go back, if you go back to the Middle Ages, you
start talking about human rights.

(00:42):
Nobody would be would have the foggiest.
Idea. That's definitely not in Rome,
that's for sure. Struggle with the fact that, I
mean, even in my own schooling, the idea of you had to memorize
names and dates when it came to history.
And I hated that because the story is what's more important,
right? And understanding what happened

(01:05):
1st and what happened next and why things happen and how you go
from one event to the next eventto the next event.
And those Domino's is what needsto be learned and being able to
analyze that and think about howthat applies to today.
And you can do that with literature, you can do that with
history, you can do that with math, you can do that with
science, right? It all requires you to be able

(01:28):
to look at something that happened before and analyze how
that applies to today. And the fact that they are not
teaching that to our children ishandicapping them.
And you get an entire generation.
This is literally our last video.
You have an entire generation who doesn't know that AI doesn't
have all the answers. And so you literally have a

(01:50):
lawyer who uses AI to generate abrief and submit it to the
judge. And the judges like these cases
don't exist. Well, we didn't realize that
because we were just using AI and we didn't realize I didn't
have a real argument. I mean, your lawyers, guys,
you're, you're supposed to be the smartest of us all.
How do you not know that? You have to double check it.

(02:13):
It's not infallible. Talk about laziness.
It's like you got somebody helping you.
The least you could do is recheck the work is like, yeah,
but that's your truth. I'm like, what?
Your truth, family truth, It's afact.
It's that one truth. And she's like, no, no, my truth
is. And she said whatever she said,
I'm like, no, no, that's not your truth.

(02:35):
That's your belief. A truth can be right.
There's only one truth. Like you can say that the sky is
green and you say that, oh, that's my truth, but it's not
really your truth. That's your opinion and opinion
and belief can be wrong. But when you say that's the
truth, no, the truth is the sky is blue and that's it.
That is the truth. So I believe there's only one

(02:59):
truth. Larissa did.
Are you with that opinion? Absolutely.
Um, I I do agree that we can't know the truth for every little
whatever. Nobody knows how the universe
was started, right? Yeah, I.
Have a really good guess, But nobody knows.

(03:19):
Nobody can say with 100% absolute proof.
And they can't go back and say, well, here I've got this video
of the start of the world, right?
Like it doesn't exist. So we have to take that based
off of faith. That's not a truth.
That's why they call it the theory, The Big Bang theory,
right? The idea of evolution, the
theory of gravity, Right. Yeah, um, aside from the fact

(03:44):
that I think only Hollywood can write a good president.
That's so true. I mean, like they always know
exactly what to say in Hollywood.
Like, you know, you see a president, you see a political
person and it's they're very easy to see who's the bad guy
and who's the good guy because the bad guy is always doing the
sneaky stuff and underhanded stuff.

(04:06):
And there's two faced, whereas the good guy is always with
integrity and says the right thing at the right time with the
exact right words. And I again, I feel like it's
not realistic because that clearblack and night where I love it
in movies, don't get me wrong, yeah, is not realistic and it
sets a really bad expectation onwhat it is.

(04:27):
It's like the the computer hackers on TV that can type
faster than we all know computers are slower than I am.
Like why is this computer hackerlike that fast on TV?
It's not realistic and it sets abad precedent for people who
think, Oh well, I know what hacking is and I can you know, I
can hack in like 2 minutes. Why aren't you there yet?

(04:49):
Yeah, that is so true about about the hackers there in
movies. By God, the guy clicks the seven
times and we're already in the Homeland Security Service and
you're like, what? Exactly are they could just
guess a password and like Oh yeah, I know what the password.
Is my wife and I just sell it celebrated our 50th wedding

(05:09):
anniversary. Wow.
Well, congratulations, most people can't even stay together
for five years now. So I I praise you my friend.
It's a little more common than you think because the the way
they skew the divorce records. Yeah, marriage vote.
We were counted once back in 1975 and we haven't appeared in

(05:29):
the statistics since. OK.
So all those people that are successful don't quite get into
the divorce versus marriage statistics?
Yeah, that, that OHP, My God. You can't fix everything.
There are things that happen in life that can't be fixed.
There are things that you can't apologize for.

(05:51):
There are things you can't go back and undo.
And as much as it would be nice to do that, you kind of have to
live with the consequences of your mistakes.
Absolutely, and a life is not fair is so true Today's agree.

(06:44):
Welcome back on our Rumbling Facts podcast, where
Uncomfortable Truths collides with critical thinking for raw,
unfiltered conversation that drive real fucking growth.
People. This is the number one
destination to challenge the script, dive into issues that
most people are gonna shy away from, and spark the kind of
mindset shift that actually moves you towards your goals.

(07:05):
I'm your host Sam, AKA DJ Rhett Sam, a rapper, creator and truth
seeker, and the founder of the nonprofit Making Others Read.
I take unwanted books that people have and give them back
to the communities. We give them back over 100,000
books in the last three-year by myself because knowledge is
fucking power. If you can give advice or just

(07:26):
do something just to help othersbecause life is hard, well, that
should be your direction becauseeverybody's gonna go through
this hard life that we go through.
And I've been through personallyhell and back myself through
addiction, blackmail, PTSD. I'm not saying that for pity
people. I'm saying that because I went
through the darkest moments of life there, and I came out

(07:47):
fucking louder, wiser, and more determined than ever.
To help you guys break through this hard life that we are in
today, we're joined by a truly remarkable guest or go Elgin
hatchback. With 11 books under his belt,
Elgin dives deep into politics, history and religion and
critical thinking, offering unique insights on some of the

(08:10):
most pressing issues that we face today.
His back His background spans anengineering, Christianity and
apologetics and an MBA. And his work with NASA includes
the Voyager flight team. This speaks to the incredible
range and expertise. But it's not just Elgins
aggressive credentials that makehim the perfect gift for their

(08:34):
show. What makes him and his Co host
Larissa Munns truly stand out istheir commitment to tackling
uncomfortable truths ahead on. And instead of focusing on the
division that we are facing today, they seek to foster
understanding and create a consensus around some of the
most polarizing issues of this time.

(08:55):
They challenge the conventional thinking, refusing to shy away
from the hard discussion that pushed the boundaries of what we
know today. So let's welcome the the both
hosts of Into the Desert, Elgin and Larissa.
Welcome to Wrongly for Xbox guest.
How you guys doing? Thank you.
Doing great. Thank you for that introduction.
That's wonderful. I really appreciate that.

(09:17):
So you were an Air Force brat meant that you you were
constantly on the move because your father was in the military.
Yeah, he was in the Air Force. Fact, I was born in England.
I don't remember much of that. You probably picked that up from
my accent because we left when Iwas 18 months old.
Went to El Paso, went to Pennsylvania, went to

(09:38):
California, went to Ohio, went to California, went to
Tennessee, then back to California where I transferred
around a couple of times. In fact, I I moved my senior
year of high school. So I went through three years of
high school and then my senior year we transferred.
Michael, you probably have seen if you've ever watched Buffy the

(10:01):
Vampire Slayer. That was the high school I went
to for their first. 30 really. Wow.
Wow, I'm going to look that up. There no.
For sure. We had a lot of people tell us
you gotta watch this show. It's really good.
So we started watching it and I'm like episode 3 or 4 and it's
like, wait a minute, German in that classroom.

(10:22):
Wow, your life must have been like, since you're moving all
the timely adapting to the new cities, new schools, like all
the time. So your, your, your, your
childhood was completely different than most people and.
It was also the 1960s, which wasa very tumultuous time.
Yeah, I, I basically graduated from high school in 73.

(10:47):
So my real formative years were probably 65 to 75.
And that is, you know, everyone,you think things are bad.
Now go look at the year 1968 eight.
Look at what happened in that year.
That was a really, really tough time for the country.
I heard that your parents had a huge influence on you.

(11:10):
How How detrimental were your parents and your view of life
and and politics and loving thiscountry?
Well, they were really detrimental other than the fact
that they moved me around every few years.
But I learned a lot from that. Of course, my, my dad was in the
Air Force and so I, you know, had a commitment to service and

(11:31):
I went into the Air Force when I, you know, became a, you know,
like 19, I think it was when I went in.
And then from my mother, she wasalways extremely involved in
politics. The earliest memory that I can
actually put a date to is the election night, 1960.

(11:52):
So I remember that because my parents made me go to bed.
And that are letting you stay upand watch the election results.
No, I remember being bad. Yeah, mad at that.
So that I learned an involvementin politics early on that my
mother was very involved on moreon the volunteer side.
So she was very active, althoughin later in life she actually

(12:16):
took more of a formal position. She ended her career, so to
speak, as the party chairman forthe state of Nevada because
that's where they ended up settling later in their life.
And as an elector in the 19th or, excuse me, in the 2000
election. She Nevada went last when they
cast the electoral votes, and she told me she cast the vote

(12:38):
that put Bush over the top to become president.
And since it wasn't politics forfor so long that so back then,
like in the in those times, there wasn't a lot of female
like in politics ain't. There was on the volunteer side,
yeah, yeah. In terms of elected officials,

(13:00):
maybe not or, you know, but in terms of volunteer and the, you
know, the more the grassroots organizations, yeah, there was,
there was a lot of women involved in that.
I talked to somebody in a sportscaster world and she was
one of The Pioneers of, of, of doing sportscasting for women.
She was one of the 1st and her mom was in the news before

(13:25):
giving out news. And we're talking about her
mother like in the 40s. And she was like one of the
first her mother. And when she wanted to go in
sportscasting in the 70s, well, even her mother was against the
idea, Even if she was a a pioneer herself, she was like,
Oh no, there's no girls in sport.
I'm. Like, well damn, it could be.

(13:45):
It could be because she knew howhard it was going to be.
Yeah, yeah, she knew that those doors were hard to open for
sure. But then yet one of the things
is my my official residence for my 1st 16 years of life was
Buffalo, WY and Wyoming was the first state to give women the
vote. Know that I, I feel that that's

(14:10):
what's crazy about this world and it's like we evolved so much
with technology and stuff like that.
But like black men writes, it just appeared in the last 100
years. The the woman rights just
appeared the last 100 years. Like what the fuck were we doing
for 2000 years? It's like we're all humans.
Everybody should have the same right, the same protection and

(14:33):
the same right to vote as well. But that when you look back at
history that it it's so sad of how we discriminated and and
pushed people out of not giving them rights there.
Well, you have to think the the whole concept of rights is only
about 300 years old. So yeah, you go back, if you go

(14:54):
back to the Middle Ages, you start talking about human
rights. Nobody would.
You would have the foggiest. Idea.
That's. Definitely not in Rome, that's
for sure. No.
And Rome, back then, it wasn't racial.
Fortunately, the racial aspect of this is sort of a innovation

(15:15):
of the of the Americas because people didn't make the racial
distinctions. They made cultural distinctions.
They made ethnic distinctions, but they didn't so much make
racial distinctions. Was American slavery that was so
divided on racial lines that introduced that that's what
makes Americans slavery so horrendous, is it?

(15:39):
It divided people by race, you know, as economics or
coincidental in the sense that they were, you know, taking the
slaves from Africa and bringing them over here.
So there obviously was a, a built in racial component, but
it wasn't, you know, it wasn't the slavery.
Slavery has existed everywhere. And, you know, it was seen not

(16:03):
in racial terms, but in seeing more in power structures.
Yeah, we conquered you. Therefore you seek, therefore
you deserve to be slaves. And the slaves would look at it,
Yeah, we got conquered. Therefore we must be that.
That's all we're good for slaves.
And it was a power thing more than a racial thing.

(16:24):
The other aspect of built into that was in the, you know, late
19th century, early 20th century, was the whole concept
of eugenics coming into the whole aspect of it.
And you had, you know, you had issues of and for example,
Virginia didn't pass their theirRacial Integrity Act, which

(16:48):
which outlawed interracial marriage until 1924.
You know, why did they, why did they wait so long?
Why they did it because of eugenics and eugenics saying you
got to keep the gene pool pure. And you know, crazy ideas like
that. What were you gonna say,

(17:08):
Larissa? Yeah, I was going to say that
even in Africa, the idea of slavery started with African
tribes conquering other African tribes.
But then they just had these beautiful, rich British people
and Spanish people who would come in and say, oh, can we buy
these people because we could have them do work for us.

(17:29):
And, you know, they're like, oh,so not only do we conquer people
and get slaves, but now we're going to make money off of these
people, too. And so it just exacerbated a
problem. Yeah, it was really like you
said, they're gonna the power, the the power structure because
right when you have control overthat person because of the land
or whatever. Well, if people just get in
line, we weren't, we weren't seeing it like, oh, there's a

(17:51):
black guy, He's automatically that's his job that I need to
put him. And it's really like, we took
you over. So you all we're going to take
you. Yeah.
During that you're teaching at University of Phoenix and Rose
Munson. That's how you say it.
College. You, you taught critical
thinking. Let's talk about this a bit.
Was this you wanted to do this or it came back from the school

(18:14):
board that they wanted the teachers to teach that to the
the kids? Well, I've always had a love for
critical thinking, although it originally it was a, it was
logic, you know, back in the 1960s.
I watched Star Trek when it was on, you know, prime time TV and
I like Spock and the whole concept of logic.

(18:36):
And so I always wanted to take alogic course when I got to
college. And when I got to college,
finally around to doing it in the early 80s, and I took a
course on logic and I just lovedit.
And that just grew epistemology,which is the philosophy of of

(18:56):
how you know what you know. And I'm a strange guy in the
sense that that's always been ofinterest to me.
Yeah, I can talk to pretty much anybody across the political
spectrum, with the exception of I find it hard to talk to people
who feel like I didn't get my point across.
So let me raise my volume a bit and see if I can get it across
that way. Yeah, Yeah, I'm not the only

(19:18):
type of person I can't talk to, but across the political
spectrum I can talk to very muchanybody.
And probably one of the reasons for that is I'm not as
interested in converting them into what I believe, but I'm
interested in finding out why they believe what they believe.
So. So you were the one that
integrated that into school? Well, it there was already, I

(19:39):
mean logic. Yeah, logic, but.
Yeah. You know, pushing critical
thinking. It goes back to Aristotle.
I mean, in the Middle Ages, you wouldn't take a course on
critical thinking, You would take a course on rhetoric.
You know, it was called rhetoricall the way up into the, you
know, 20th century. It was basically, how do you
form arguments? How do you give speeches that

(20:02):
are persuasive? How can you construct ways you'd
learn about fallacies and what are good and bad ways of arguing
a position? Then that sort of went away.
Now it's called critical thinking.
So it's, it wasn't anything new.It's nothing I created, but it
was just something was interesting to me.
And, you know, University of Phoenix.

(20:22):
When I started teaching for them, they had a course on
critical thinking and I volunteered to teach it, and
eventually I got to the point where I was teaching other
teachers how to teach it. Wow, that's incredible.
And I didn't, I didn't even knowthat we had schools like pushing
critical thinking because when you look at at at elementary
schools and high schools, especially in Canada, since I'm

(20:45):
here, well, we have nothing likethat.
And I, I think that we should push critical thinking to
elementary school like, like literally because.
At. School later.
This is the beginning until end of of high school.
Well, you're not. You're not.
They're never telling you figureout this by yourself.
No, no. They're like this.
What's happened, if you rememberthat perfectly, you're

(21:07):
considered smart. Well, yeah.
Like we're supposed to just takeit, swallow it and and that's
it. So it never pushes us to do our
own research, retest it and makesure it works again.
And I, I think that's what really breaks through for people
there because right when you start critical thinking, those
are the people that are really get out-of-the-box and that

(21:29):
really do a change in this life.Because that I, I felt from when
I was a kid that they're just all trying to put us in the same
mold. I will, I was telling my mom I'm
like, I like I'm OCD, but I didn't know back then I, I just
didn't understand like why some people were considered smarter
than me when I know, let's say Iwould do a IQ test, I would, I
would destroy them. And I, I wasn't like, Oh, I'm

(21:51):
smarter and you're, you're not smart.
It's just, I was like, this is not the way that you should
teach somebody to make him learnsomething.
Really. It's really if, do you remember
that? That's the skill really for high
school. So do you think that critical
thinking should should be maybe started a bit earlier than
college and university and. I take this.

(22:11):
Yeah. So this is something I actually
feel very strongly about becausewe've talked about this in some
of our own podcasts on YouTube where if you look at technology
today and you look at what technology requires of its users
to be effective, it requires critical thinking.
And I struggle with the fact that, I mean, even in my own

(22:34):
schooling, the idea of you had to memorize names and dates when
it came to history. And I hated that because the
story is what's more important, right?
And understanding what happened 1st and what happened next and
why things happened and how you go from one event to the next
event to the next event for those dominoes is what needs to

(22:55):
be learned. And being able to analyze that
and think about how that appliesto today.
And you can do that with literature, you can do that with
history, you can do that with math, you can do that with
science, right? It all requires you to be able
to look at something that happened before and analyze how
that applies to today. And the fact that they are not

(23:16):
teaching that to our children ishandicapping them.
And you get an entire generation.
This was literally our last video.
You have an entire generation who doesn't know that AI doesn't
have all the answers. And so you literally have a
lawyer who uses AI to generate abrief and submits it to the

(23:36):
judge. And the judge is like, these
cases don't exist. Well, we didn't realize that
because we were just using AI and we didn't realize I didn't
have a real argument. I mean, your lawyers, guys,
you're, you're supposed to be the smartest of us all.
How do you not know that? You have to double check it.
It's not infallible. Talk about laziness though.

(23:58):
It's like you got somebody helping you, the the least you
could do is recheck the work. Yeah, it's like, you know, Back
to the Future, well, I have to have time to recopy, right?
Biff is like always saying he has to get the homework so he
can recopy. Well, it's kind of the same
thing with AI. You can't have AI do the
homework and not check it over and put it in your own words, in
your own handwriting. Absolutely.

(24:22):
With your 11 books I've published on a variety of topics
because I went to. I'll check them out.
What's been the driving force ofyou starting writing and is this
simply a passion to sharing yourknowledge with others?
It's part of it. I mean, in all honesty, one of
the reasons I write is I write primarily for myself.

(24:46):
If if I take a topic, it's like I, I start thinking about how
can I communicate this to somebody else?
And so I started thinking about it, and I try to write it down
in a way that would be convincing.
But in the process, I have to doa lot of research.

(25:06):
And so I have to go in and find out all the various, you know,
facts. Even in the canvas casual
conversation with somebody, you know, you could say something
like, well, there was this lawyer who did this, right?
And that's fine. And that's, yeah, we trust each
other. And that's, you know, almost
certainly the case. However, if I'm writing that in
a book, I can't say, well, therewas this lawyer who said I had

(25:26):
to go find the is I have to get the the citations and make sure
I do it accurately. By the way, I find that very
fundamental because it's important because when I do
that, probably a good 70% of thetime I end up finding that the
case is actually better than I thought it was.

(25:47):
And, you know, so I can go through it and I can, you know,
make my argument even stronger. Sometimes I find I find out it's
I had misunderstood it and it's bad.
I consider a win because I don'twant to be out there.
I mean, putting things into print is dangerous because when
I write something down or you put it out on a video or podcast

(26:09):
or something, it's recorded and someone can come along later.
And what you did off the top of your head, they can put three
hours of research in and show you wrong.
And so you have to be fairly careful.
So the reason I write, you know,the reason I started my first
books on Christianity was because I grew up an atheist and

(26:32):
only became a Christian later inlife and.
A lot of same here. Lot of that was evidence based
and I so I yeah, OK, why did, why did I do this?
And you know, and am I correct? And so I started working at all
the evidence, my third book, which is Preserving democracy.
That came out of my teaching because I was teaching critical

(26:55):
thinking in class. And the students, they just,
they just didn't know anything, you know, they didn't know the
fundamental basics of, of the American government, of American
history. And they just, you know, why we
do what we do. And so I tried to lay that out

(27:18):
and in a non, that's a tough thing to do in a non partisan
way. So I tried to make sure I was
pulling in, you know, fundamental arguments but not
making them partisan and was like that US versus them.
That is smart. This is why the American
government is laid out. I actually make some pretty, you

(27:42):
know, definitive statements in that, but I don't do them as
they're wrong. I'm right.
This is why. And so that's where that book
came out. You know, some of my other ones,
some of my, my publisher asked me to write the book on the
Constitution. He wanted to start a whole new
line of books aimed at, you know, high school, college era,

(28:04):
home schooling type situations. So he asked me to write the
first book in that theories which was on the US
Constitution. So I did that as a history of
has the was how did the Constitution come to be and how
has it changed over the years upto today?
And I find going into the fundamentals like that very

(28:26):
beneficial because a lot of the things we argue about, like the
Supreme Court made a good decision or a bad decision or
that jug is judges radical or not radicals usually because
you're really saying is that judge agrees with me, that judge
doesn't agree with me. But if you go down into the why
are they they ruling the way they do, you do find out there

(28:50):
are two fundamentally different ways of looking at the
Constitution that are active in the United States today.
One is the living Constitution, which is the Constitution grows
and expands and develops along with the culture as it goes
along. And the other is what they call
strict construction, which is, you know, it, it means what it

(29:11):
meant to those who passed it. And if you want to change it,
there's an amendment process. And that accounts for most of
the differences between what we would call liberal judges versus
conservative judges. So it's not so much their being
political, it's that they're following different
philosophies. But if we don't discuss the

(29:32):
philosophies, then, you know, wedon't as a people get to make a
decision as to what should be the way to look at the
Constitution. Absolutely.
And I, I totally understand thatyou're, you're feeling when
you're writing a book, when you're like, damn, I, I can't
write something that's just, youneed facts and you need to
recheck everything. And that's what I appreciate of

(29:53):
doing music because you can go on that creative side and I can
invent anything. And nobody could say, well,
that's not factually correct. Well, I hope so, bro.
It's a, it's a, a creation. But when I do a podcast on my
own of a subject, boy, so sometimes I'm like, I'm going to
be here for two hours just doingthis research and there's some I

(30:13):
was there for 5-6 days straight and I was deep the rabbit hole
and I was like, Oh my God. And it never ends because man, I
want I want the complete package.
So I want the view of that person, the view of here and
really combine everything, find articles going government
archives, find everything I can to when I'm going to do the

(30:34):
podcast, learn like you said yourself of, of learning what
you're going through and really put out a great product.
Because if you're not, if you don't care about the product
you're you're putting out, like,what's the point?
It does make for a you know, when I publish and I've had
these conversations where, you know, should I put more red meat

(30:56):
in my in my writing? So, you know, get people angry
and stuff and because that's what sells people people they
complain about partisan ISM, butthen they, you know, when you
put a book out that just actually lays things out in a
non partisan fashion, it's hard to get noticed because you
didn't say anything crazy or up,you know, so and we've always

(31:19):
concluded at the end that that'sjust not me.
Because I shot the shock factor in videos, books and everything.
That's the seller that because no matter if the person hates
you, never gonna buy the book, all that person is going to talk
to to 30 people about that book.That's crazy.
And there's eight of them that'sgoing to buy in it.
That just continues. So for sure the shock factor in
movies as well. That's what people remember, you

(31:43):
guys, You guys. Discussed review my books I
don't care whether you write a good review or a.
Bad. Exactly.
Bad reviews, Dirty little secretbad reviews can sell books that
just as well as the good reviews.
I would say the same if somebodytook the time to review one of
my songs, like I don't care if you don't like it.
I I appreciate so much just the time for you to put it on

(32:03):
because you get a new viewershipand that's important when you're
trying to grow or trying to, to spread knowledge there.
You need people that are going to read, talk about it.
You guys often talk about how religion intersects with
politics and and you guys view does religion really have a role
in politics and or should we keep it maybe separated?

(32:26):
I would say definitely they havea, a clear guiding.
I, I don't agree that you shouldhave a country that is dominated
by a single religion and forces everybody to follow that
religion, that that's not what religion is.
But religion guides every step that you make, every decision

(32:47):
that you make, whether you're going to do it with integrity,
whether you're going to do it tomake money, whether you're going
to do it for the betterment of the masses or for your own
personal goals. What religion has a big, a big
basis in how you look at things and how you look at the world?
And at least for the Christian religions, I can't speak to all

(33:09):
of them, but you know the ones Iknow about, they really do focus
on the betterment of the world and giving back and denying the
self and helping those that are in need.
And if you run your government with those moral guidelines,
with those moral basis, you willhave a better government than if

(33:30):
you're trying to do something that's selfish or, you know,
that's looking out for #1. Absolutely.
And I'll go ahead. Yeah, on that.
The, the, the thinking of the founding fathers in America was,
you know, obviously you have to have some sort of control over
people in the sense that you don't want people just running

(33:53):
off and stealing from everybody.You know, we, we want, we want
some guidelines within the culture and some of those
guidelines are social. In other words, we used, for
example, stigma. You, you know, you, you don't
steal from your friends because you don't want your friends to
be mad at you, right? You want them to be your

(34:13):
friends. Some of them are a little bit
more important and then some of them are so important that we
put the power of the state behind them.
And that's what we make into laws.
So when you when you make a law,what you're basically saying is
this is so important. We want to back it up with the
power of the state. So the founding fathers were

(34:33):
looking at this and they were very, very big on liberty.
And they knew that, you know, stigma wasn't enough,
particularly when you know, someone moves into the
community, will they have no ties to the community?
What's to keep them from stealing from everybody?
So, you know, they needed something that would control
people's behavior and make people, you know, be nice to

(34:54):
each other essentially. But they didn't want to put the
power of the state behind it. They saw that role filled by
religion. And so they wanted to set up a,
an environment where religion and you, if you read the
writings of the founding fathers, affected most people of
that era, they would say religion is important to give
people guidelines on how to livetheir lives.

(35:16):
Even if they didn't believe in God, they were Deists, or they
were atheist, they would still say that.
So the founding Fathers set up asystem of encouraging religion
within the people, but not having an established church.
So no one church or one religionwould have the power to oppress
all the others, because that's that is just as much a tyranny

(35:40):
as an oppressive government. So they wanted a multitude of
religion to provide that voluntary framework without
having to have the state step in.
And if you look at countries around the world, countries
with, you know, strong personalistic religions tend to

(36:03):
be freer countries because they don't need government to pass
all those laws to tell everyone exactly what to do.
We're behaving themselves because of the religious belief,
because you most religions, you know, have some version of the
Golden Rule. And yeah, exactly.
You're going to find exceptions and everything.
But that's was the thinking of the early Founding Fathers.

(36:25):
And you see that, you know, whenyou go to to states that don't
have religion or, you know, theytend to have a much, much bigger
government because they need a bigger government to be able to
regulate the behavior in that space that that religion would
take care of. So yeah, there's definitely an
interplay between the two, but it shouldn't be.

(36:47):
Well, my religion is true, so myreligion should be the
government. Yeah, that's a sure sign for for
problems. And that is so true about the
the golden rule that you said right there.
I think it was Eddie Griffin, the stand up comic is like he
tried to tell us, OK, you're in disbelief.
You're I believe in God. So they try to the separate us

(37:09):
and, and but he's like, look at these religious people.
Like the the point is, I don't care what you believe in, but
did you get the message? Did you get the message?
Because if you didn't, that's the problem, because you need to
get the message is the same message.
Everybody fighting over this religious shit, you understand
me? The Christians say Jesus is the

(37:29):
messenger, The Muslims say is Muhammad.
I say who gives a fuck who the message is?
Did you get the message? They got the same damn message.
Do unto others as you would havethem do unto you.

(37:51):
Science proves that to be a factor.
Every action is opposite and equal reaction.
Don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you.
Don't do to others, but you don't want to get done to you.
That's it. So if you don't get the message,
like that's the problem. It's not the religion, it's not
all you believe in Allah mean God.
No, no, but did you get the message?

(38:12):
Don't fuck with me, I won't fuckwith you.
It's that simple. And that is so true.
When I started looking at religions initially, I would
have thought that they would have everything different, but
so, so like no, the same rules on the same side.
No, no, on different sides. I wouldn't have thought that.
And when you look at it, well, the that golden rule thing is
almost and, and most of them, because that's how humans should

(38:35):
be like, we should never do something to someone that we
don't want people to do to us. It's that simple.
You guys focus on building a consensus and not a division,
but you're not against at the same time of a two party system
that so many criticize. Can can you tell us a bit wise

(38:55):
since you guys obviously want less division, but you're you're
still OK with that two party system.
Can you talk to us about that? Sure.
I mean, everybody has essentially that they have to
come up with a solution to a particular problem in at least
in a democracy, if you're a dictator, you don't have to

(39:16):
worry about this. Yeah.
But if you're in a democracy, you've got to figure out, OK,
you've got, yeah, 340 million people in the United States,
right? We have one president.
So how do those people end up deciding on a single person to
be president? And you can have a parliamentary

(39:37):
system where you have all the parties vote like they have in
in Britain. I think that's what you have in
Canada where you you vote for your parties and then your
parties get together and they they work out who's going to be
the number one person. That's one way of doing it.
And people like multiple parties, they can vote for it.
The problem is you don't actually get to vote for who's

(40:00):
going to be your Prime Minister.You vote for the party and you
hope the party votes for your person, but they could side with
the opposition and suddenly you voted for someone you didn't
want. In the United States, we what we
essentially do, we have two parties which.
All that coalition building thatthey do after the election and a

(40:21):
parliamentary system we effectively do before the
election. So yeah, we tend to think of the
Republicans or the Democrats as single entities, but they're
not. They're coalitions of groups and
multiple groups. You know, in the, in the
Republican Party, for example, you've got the more
establishment wing, the Bush type Republicans, and then you

(40:42):
got your conservatives and then you've got some Libertarians and
then you've got some more, you know, fringe people.
Um, and then you know, the same thing in the Democrats.
You've got the progressives, you've got the moderates, you've
got Labour, you know, all these various groups inside.
So the coalition forms before the election and then you vote

(41:02):
for your party's nominee at the election.
So at least you get the chance to vote for it.
Um, the, the whole purpose is tobuild consensus.
Now the the problem is, is before the 1990s, yeah, we had
election season and then we had governing season.

(41:24):
And yeah, it was a roughly 80202080 type situation.
But effectively during campaign season, your sole goal is to
defeat the other side. And then after campaign season,
then we you work to govern. So you have to work with these
people for the next, you know, in the House of Representatives
next 18 months until the next election season.

(41:45):
Well, what happened in the 90s is the they went to what
something is called the continuous campaign and they
stopped campaigning. I mean, it stopped having
governing season and they just campaigned all the way along.
And that's what's built the division that you see.
And it's kind of somewhat reinforced itself.

(42:06):
It's the division that's the problem.
It's not the two parties. It's the fact that that we're
focusing on defeating the other side all the time.
And in a democracy, you can't have that.
The whole point of a democracy is you've got to get the people
to come together and reach a consensus, right?
And it may be a 51% consensus, but it used to be if you were

(42:31):
putting together a bill and you wanted to get it through the
Senate, your sole concern was toget, you know, the 60 votes to
get you past the filibuster. If you get past the filibuster,
you're golden. Or in the House, you got to get
5050 + 150% + 1. That was the sole goal.
Used to be if you could make a couple of changes and get a 60

(42:56):
or 70% of the others party voting for you, that was even
better. And today the parties don't work
with each other. So it's really hard to build
that sort of consensus. They're, they're focusing more
on defeating rather than on building consensus.
And that's what's causing the problems in in our society with
the American democracy is you're, we're constantly trying

(43:19):
to defeat the other side. And you can't have a democracy
where that happens because eventually what's going to
happen is one side is going to get so afraid of the other that
they all basically impose A dictatorship to keep the other
aside from ever coming to party party.
You lose your you lose your ability to actually have a
democracy and yeah, you end up with a one party state.

(43:41):
And that's that doesn't benefit anybody except the one party.
Yeah, the only way, the reason Iasked that is because they force
us to choose if we're on the left or right.
So right away you divide people like that in a way there.
And because I would be thinking like if you destroy the two

(44:02):
parties and there's no more parties and we're all voting for
one person because let's not kidourselves, every person is
unique in their own way to. So any person that we had, he
doesn't believe all the liberal things that he's pushing or, or,
or, or actually that he's behind.
So that's why I think that having like no parties and just

(44:26):
voting for that individual couldbe beneficial.
But there's some benefits in having those two systems
compared to that one system. Yeah, there is a real
difference. However, I mean, we do have a
political spectrum. There is a left and there is a
right and there are reasons thatBarack Obama and Hillary Clinton
and Biden are over there on the right and Bush and, you know,

(44:51):
Ted Cruz and some others are on the, excuse me, on the left and
then on the right because they actually have agreement.
And if you look at, you know, unfortunately, we've divided the
political spectrum between communists and Nazis and that
that it's an arbitrary way of doing it.
So it's as good as any. But as I write in my book,
Seeking Truth, it doesn't help you.

(45:14):
It doesn't tell you anything. A much better way to do it, and
what is once more historically accurate, is to look at why are
people on the left or why are people on the light?
And it goes back to the difference in the American
Revolution and the French Revolution traces all the way up
to to today. But if you divide people on you

(45:34):
know 2 two issues. 1 is how big and two what's more important,
the individual or the group? The group for sure.
See. That puts you on the left.
Boy, and I'm not on the level, OK, I.

(45:55):
I mean, we look at it more, not I, I don't like to phrase it
individual versus group because I would agree the group is more
important, right? We want, yeah, yeah, the society
to grow and be better. But it's more of are we looking
at freedom versus control, right?
And if you want people to have more freedom, then that means

(46:16):
there's less control over your choices.
And so that's how I see it. But I, I don't think you could
ever have a one party system because people have different
beliefs, right? There are people that really
believe that you should not havethe individual freedom.
You should have someone who tells you what to do and
everybody should work for the good of the whole.

(46:39):
And, you know, then you get to extremes like in Russia where
you're born and they're like, OK, you're going to be a doctor
and you're going to be a street sweeper.
That's kind of arbitrary, right?Just because you need more sweet
sweepers than doctors. That's how your job gets
assigned, and then what's your motivation to do that?

(46:59):
So in our society, the way it was designed is you get to
choose what you want to do, and if you work harder, you will
succeed. If you want to be lazy and just
get by, then that you get with those consequences.
And it's the consequences of theeffort that you put behind your
life that makes the determination of how you succeed

(47:24):
or fail in in life and your job and whatever you pursue.
And you guys know how we could bridge the political and
cultural divide that we see today, especially with the
country so divided. Talk to each.
Other OK. Communication is the key success

(47:46):
people subscribe I got. That job get to the centre they
actually overlap and yeah, you have the exact same if you could
find the the the mythical personwho's exactly.
In the. Middle of left and right.
That person would want a moderate government, you know,
and with a focus that equaled the group and the individual.

(48:09):
When I say group and individual,I'm basically saying individual
liberty and group equality, because it's, yes, you can put
it as yeah, yeah, you know, freedom versus equality.
Freedom and equality are mutually exclusive.
You can't have both. You can have a nice meeting
point where you kind of get both.
So when you get to the centre ofthe spectrum, you have a

(48:31):
balance. But at any question, which is
more important, individual freedom or group equality?
And the more you go for individual freedom, the less you
will have group of quality. The more you go for group of
quality, the less you will have individual freedom.
And as you move further along those lines, that's where the

(48:52):
political spectrum comes out. For example, the difference
between a a moderate and a conservative is a conservative
emphasizes more freedom and smaller government.
As you move further and you get to libertarian, even more
freedom and even less government.
And eventually, when you go all the way to the end of the
spectrum to the right, you end up basically in a cabin in

(49:15):
Idaho. Not to cast aspersions against
Idaho, but yeah, he entered the cabin somewhere in the West
saying, I don't respect any government authority.
I mean, you're a government under yourself, and you're
completely free to do whatever you want to do.
Yeah. That doesn't work for a nation
of 300 million people. So where do you exactly fall on

(49:37):
that spectrum? If you go all the way to the
left, you end up with a totalitarian government in this
form of communist. And, you know, the government
controls everything and he owns everything.
Not everybody on the left is a communist.
And as you move back, you find, you know, you find socialist.
You move back even further, you find, you know, people who,

(49:58):
yeah, they want strong government control, but you
know, they're, they do value individual liberty.
And then eventually you get to the centre where you got that
mythical person who's exactly balanced on where those go.
The other aspect is this is going to change because there
isn't that person is mythical isit will change from issue to
issue to issue. In some issues people will want

(50:19):
more government control and other issues people will want
less coverage. So the person submitting in the
centre on one issue isn't going to be mythically in the centre
on another issue. So the only way to resolve all
that is let's have discussions and let's have discussions
centred around why we want more liberty or more control.
And where can we find a centre middle ground where we can get a

(50:42):
70% consensus? We're never going to get 100.
Where can we get a 70 or maybe even a 80% consensus that we can
all agree on? Because if you can pass a law
that has a 70 to 80% consensus, it's unlikely to change at the
next election. Yeah, for.
Sure, the law with a 51% consensus.

(51:04):
The other party gets in, they'llpass it the other way.
And instability. For years.
Yeah, instability of the law will lead to instability in
society. So I think that's, you know, the
answer is actually in some respects very simple, talk to
each other, except because of the demonization, that's
something we've actually lost the ability to do.

(51:27):
It's hard, you know, we unfriendpeople on Facebook and it's for
the right, you know, the right candidate or they vote for the
wrong candidate, so. Absolutely.
After like the first election ofTrump against Hillary, my God,
you were seeing this division for the first time, like to the
highest degree like nobody was hiding it there.
They were like, how can all you garbage is like naming the the

(51:51):
half of the country vote for oneperson.
And I was like, wow, like literally this person, like the
things that half of the country is literally lunatics like like
not even worth to talk to. It's like it's incredible.
So for sure they're not gonna take their advice if they think
that that they're fucking crazy,but.
And I wouldn't even argue that it started even in the 2000

(52:12):
election with Bush, Gore and Nader and the whole Florida
Miami-Dade County voting debacle.
And like all the left is out to to do the votes and no, the
rights out messing up the votes.Like, no, that's just, that's
our democracy. Between, you know, two things
count. Every vote was with Democratics,

(52:33):
we're saying. And the Republicans were saying
don't change the rules after theelection.
Well, you couldn't have both. There was no way to count every
vote the way the Democrats wanted without changing the
rules after the election. So which is more important,
counting every vote or changing the rules after the election?
I would say counting the votes honestly.

(52:55):
How do you know what's a legitimate vote?
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. So we're in the uncomfortable
truth section. So I'm gonna ask you a question
that Marie think and makes you think of your life and get an
uncomfortable truth out of YouTube.
So yeah, we you could have completely two different
answers. What's a deep, deeply
uncomfortable truth that you guys had to face about your own

(53:17):
bias and your life? That's that's a tough one.
I'm, you know. It's OK not to have an answer
there. Well, you know, in the sense I,
I somewhat do because one of thethings that I'd like talking to
other people is they're better at seeing my flaws than I am.

(53:40):
Um, and so I've spent a large part of my life talking to
people that would point out things to me.
And it's like, Oh yeah, right. That's something I gotta fix.
And so, you know, here I am now.I'm 69 years old.

(54:02):
I've been doing this for a long time.
So it's like if I had, if I knewit, I would have already fixed
it. Larissa, do you have one?
I, I don't know, I think for me contradiction is kind of the
hardest thing. And you know, life is full of
contradictions, but trying to figure out, you know, I like

(54:24):
equality. I like liberty.
How do you have both and and figuring out where I lie?
Especially, you know, in Christianity, you have this idea
that God has everything predetermined, but then we also
have free will. OK, So what does that mean when
I'm faced with the choice on what I'm going to do with my

(54:47):
life? You know, how how do I make
decisions when I'm not even surewhere I fall on these lines
through the contradictions? What's an aspect of politics
that you believe is misrepresented in movies and
media? That was easy.

(55:09):
You said the right. Right.
Yeah, I was thinking. Yeah, yeah.
There's a study a few years ago where they looked at the, you
know, TV. The person most likely to commit
a murder on TV is the CEO because.

(55:29):
Yeah, And you think about what'sthe How many CEOs have committed
murder? I mean, we literally have an
example recently of a CEO being killed and murdered in the
streets of New York. And you know, there's if you
look at why does that happen? You know, why is capitalism so

(55:53):
reviled and routinely rejected on college campuses?
Are you see this in movies? If you, you know, you look at to
me, the the press has been biased for a long time.
I remember watching, you know, Walter Cronkite and people
saying he's really, you know, straight down the line, I'm

(56:15):
going now he's he's on the left.And they say, how do you know
that? Because I can tell by listening
to him. Yeah.
And then he retired and started going on the speaking circuit
and people were, wow, he's really on the left.
He's like, really? You're only seeing this now.
Um, so the press has been biasedfor a long time, very long time.

(56:40):
And what's only changed is really with the 2000 election
with, and this is our stats in my book, it was probably the
last close to fair election. We used to be they were biased
most of the year and then as they got towards election, they
would sort of clean their act upand be kind of faired up to the

(57:01):
election. And so in 2000 they were still
that way. But when you go to two 1004, it
markedly shifted. They were much more favorable,
the Democrats and much more negative on the Republicans.
And then you go to 2008, the same thing.
And then when we got to 2016 with Trump, they basically

(57:24):
tossed out all the the rules andthey became openly, they said
number of reporters actually said we can't be objective any
longer because Trump is so bad. We have to be, you know, take
sides. And so they became very blatant
about it, which is why you endedup with all the the various
hoaxes. I'm not a maggot person.

(57:45):
I mean, I'm, I, I hope I try to be objective.
So there's some things he does Ilike and there's something he
does I don't like, which in these days it seems to, you
know, if I, if I'm talking aboutthings that he does that I like,
well, I am, I'm obviously MAGA. And if I talk about things that
I don't like, well, I'm obviously, you know, in the far

(58:07):
left wing camp. So it's like, no, no, no, I'm
actually in the middle. And I just have an opinion.
I seek out sources. I mean, you know, if you're
watching a source and they're 100% negative or even 90%
negative on somebody, unless you're talking about Hitler, you
know, that's a completely separate, but they're, if

(58:28):
they're, you know, you're talking about a modern political
figure, if they're 90% negative then or 90% positive then.
You're on the wrong channel. You're listening to a bias
source. Exactly.
And I listen. I listen to bias sources.
I love me too because you can't create a good opinion without

(58:48):
knowing both sides for sure. Yeah, I actively seek out both
sides, but I also seek out particular voices that I see
are, you know, they go both sides on an issue.
They can admit an. Issue and when they when they're
over here, they give a very reasonable reason they're over
one side and then on the next time they're on the other side,

(59:10):
they give a very reasonable answer on the other side.
People like Alan Dershowitz, youknow, he's a lawyer.
I watched him for a large part of my life.
I don't remember when I first hecame into my consciousness, but
you know, he's a person on the left, but he's also very

(59:30):
principled person and will standup for for rights in a very,
very consistent way. And so, you know, he actually
became a lawyer for Trump on some cases because he didn't
like what was happening to Trump, not because he likes
Trump. Literally the other.
Yeah, he just saw something thatwasn't right, and he did.
Something Andrew McCarthy is a another lawyer that that I see

(59:53):
this, you know, sometimes he comes down and he said, yeah, I
think I think Trump's got a goodcase here on the other times
like this morning, he saying, I don't I don't see how Trump's
going to win this one. Yeah, that's what you need
because if you're just going with all I'm OK with everything
that Trump says or or no matter what he says is not good.
Well, those two point of views are not good.

(01:00:14):
But because everybody has some good and some bad to take from
and everybody has gives out information to us or give it
take and everything. And now you, Larissa.
Do you have an aspect in politics that you feel like is
misrepresented by the movies andmedia?
Aside from the fact that I thinkonly Hollywood can write a good
president. That's so true.

(01:00:38):
I mean, like they always know exactly what to say in
Hollywood. Like, you know, you see a
president, you see a political person and it's they're very
easy to see who's the bad guy and who's the good guy because
the bad guys always doing the sneaky stuff and underhanded
stuff. And there's two faced, whereas
the good guy is always with integrity and says the right
thing at the right time with theexact right words.

(01:01:00):
And I again, I feel like it's not realistic because that clear
black and night where I love it in movies, don't get me wrong,
yeah, is not realistic and it sets a really bad expectation on
what it is. It's like the the computer
hackers on TV that can type faster than we all know
computers are slower than I am. Like why is this computer hacker

(01:01:23):
like that fast on TV? It's not realistic and it sets a
bad precedent for people who think, Oh well, I know what
hacking is and I can you know, Ican hack in like 2 minutes.
Why aren't you there yet? Yeah, that is so true about
about the hackers there in movies.
By God, the guy clicks the seventimes and we're already in the

(01:01:44):
Homeland Security Service. You're like what?
Exactly are they could just guess a password and like Oh
yeah, I know what the password is like no.
Well, Hollywood treats technology as magic, so.
And fighting too, when when you looked at fighting, somebody
hits somebody across the head, he's automatically knocked out

(01:02:05):
on the floor and they can do anything in the world.
It's like you guys didn't watch UFC before doing this, this
movie that there's guys that gethim to face 220 times and
they're still standing up like killers.
So it's like in movies that theyhit the guy behind the head and
they ain't worried about nothingelse.
They walk away because the guys out and he's probably going to
be out for 5-6 minutes. What like even the UFC when the

(01:02:27):
guy get knocked movie and when the guy gets knocked out in real
combat, like maybe a 40 seconds later he's getting up.
So so I don't know why movies he's automatically sleeping for
days. It's like what?
So for sure that's a great example for the the presidents
there. What's.
My favorite shows is Babylon 5 and Michael Stravinsky was asked

(01:02:49):
once the spacecraft in Babylon vibes.
Someone 1 fan asked him how fastdoes that actually go?
It says it moves at the speed ofplot.
Wow, what's 1 of the hardest truths that you realize in your
career or. Life.

(01:03:09):
Ah, probably that. Life's not fair.
That is so true. You know, yeah, you grow up, you
know, in the 60s, you know, all the TV shows had happy endings
and everything was fine. And, you know, the good guys
always won and blah, blah, blah,blah.
And then you, you go into the real world and, you know, you

(01:03:34):
end up, something happens to youand it's just, it's, it's just
not fair. And you were, you were wrong.
And there's, there's nobody you can do.
There's nothing you can do aboutit.
It's just that's, it's just lifeand you know it is the way it is

(01:03:54):
so. Can you, Larissa, do you have
one? You can't fix everything.
There are things that happen in life that can't be fixed.
There are things that you can't apologize for.
There are things you can't go back and undo.
And as much as it would be nice to do that, you kind of have to

(01:04:14):
live with the consequences of your mistakes.
Absolutely. And a life is not fair is so
true Today's agree Because when you're a kid, you always think
that everybody's going to be equal.
Everybody's gonna have their rights and everything and that
life is let's say somebody does some bad thing or life is gonna
go back and get a no, it's not like that.

(01:04:36):
It's not cause the guy is a criminal, a piece of shit that
life's gonna go get him. I was gonna point not all of
them people when I started realizing that when I was a kid,
OK, there were some people just get away with stuff.
Yeah, because you don't control life.
You don't control the rules. So, yeah, life is not fair.
And that's a that's a bomb. When we learned that when we're

(01:04:56):
at like, adolescence, normally there when we figure that, OK,
so I'm not that special. Like my mom told me I could be
an astronaut in two seconds. What, when you guys look back at
the bigger picture, what's something about the world that
no one seems willing to confront?
But you realize that it's probably a key to understanding
our future. That's a solid 1.

(01:05:23):
I would say is that things, things are constantly in flux.
And then I guess there's two things.
One, they're constantly in flux.For example, we talked earlier
about political parties, the Republican Party today and the
Democratic Party today are not the same as they were in the in
the 90s. They're not the same as they

(01:05:43):
were in the 60s. They're not the same before
that. Well, we, so we tend to look at
at things as if they never actually change and if they're
monolithic. The other is the 8020 rule, I
think is we, we all pay lip service to it.
I don't think we realize how much that really is in fact,

(01:06:04):
right. When I say, for example, the
Republican Party is X or the Democratic Party is Y, I'm not
saying every single person in the party is exactly this way.
The opposite to that is people, you know, people say, well, the
Republicans, the Democrats or the Uniparty, they make no
difference between them. Well, there actually are

(01:06:25):
significant differences between them and it doesn't require me
to demonize one person, one party or the other.
There are Democrats I like. I'm.
Tending for sure. But there are Democrats I like I
may never vote for them. Luckily I'm not in their state
so I don't have to folks that confronted with that particular
dilemma. But I have voted Democrat in the

(01:06:46):
past because I just could not stand the Republican.
And, you know, there are are areDemocrats that I respect and
that I think are good people, even if I don't agree with them
on political issues. And there's certain Republicans
that I would. If I give you, you give me the
vote, I kick him out of the party.

(01:07:08):
And Larissa, do you, do you havean answer with that for that one
or do you want me to repeat it? Yeah, if you could.
Yeah, yeah, no problem. And when you look at the bigger
picture, what's something about the world that no one seems
willing to confront, but you've realized it's one of the keys to
understanding our future. I think it it's actually an

(01:07:30):
interesting because I had I justhad this conversation with my
kids this morning on the way to school, paying attention.
Yeah. Paying attention to the world,
knowing what's going on. Don't take anything for granted,
you know? You never know what's going to
come up, what's going to hit you, where your next opportunity
is going to be, where danger is.Pay attention.

(01:07:52):
Absolutely, That's some solid ship because a lot of people are
are on autopilot in their life, doing their life and not really
understanding why rules are are are the way there is why there's
a certain stuff happening aroundthe world.
People are just so concentrated and they're instant
gratification with Instagram andall this life that we have of,
of distractions technically. So being aware of what's going

(01:08:15):
on and everything is so important.
And what's an uncomfortable truth you had to accept about
the way success or happiness is really achieved?
There's a large component of luck.
That is so true. Well, you know, particularly

(01:08:35):
people on my side and people whoare very successful like to
think that it's all hard work. And you know, you know, they got
there through hard work and theyworked.
And I don't doubt that. They were.
Very hard, but they often ignorethe component of luck.

(01:08:55):
On the other side, it's the people who think it's all luck
and no hard. Work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's neither of those
positions. Again, it's an 8020 thing.
Neither of those positions are true.
Unless you work hard, you will not be able to take advantage of
the luck when it comes. Around that there's a golf
player named Gary Player and he said it's weird.

(01:09:17):
The harder I work, the luckier Iget.
And that is exactly so true there.
When you work, so much luck willcome.
You can take advantage of it. Yeah.
But, you know, it's, it's the the bell curve.
So, you know, just put a bell curve on virtually anything,
right? And you're going to have people
at the one end who are very, very successful, right.

(01:09:40):
You know, people at the other end who are just very, very
unlucky. There are unlucky people of
them. You know, there there are.
I personally, I'm one of those people.
It's just seems to fall through the cracks.
Give you a real quick example, California had a pro loan
program for veterans. So this is back when, you know,

(01:10:03):
housing loans were routinely 1213%, right, for a home loan
and they had a program for veterans that, you know, 2%
great, we wanted to buy a house,want to refinance our house.
You let's go get that. And so I, we go to apply because
I'm a veteran, you know, served in the Air Force, Air Force.

(01:10:24):
And they said, well, they're actually, you have to be a
veteran between certain periods of time.
Incredible. And so, well, OK, the Vietnam
War era was one of them. The Vietnam War era ended April
30th, 1975. Not a problem.
I enlisted and was sworn in on April 3rd, 1975.

(01:10:48):
I'm golden. Wow.
No, you have to go active duty on that time.
That's incredible. Air Force brought me in and then
put me on something called delayed enlistment, where I
didn't actually go active duty until July.
Wow. But you were still on the paper.
So wow. But I didn't, no, I didn't get
it. I didn't qualify for the loan.

(01:11:09):
OK, wow. That's the sort of thing that,
you know, in my, in my life, I could give you like 10 or 1213
different examples, things like that.
So if there's an exception or a clause, I just assume I'm not
going to get it. You know it it's you know,
they're talking for example, they're talking about Trump

(01:11:30):
wants to give out these checks to for Dodge refunds or whatever
Grapevine. I assume I will not get one
simply because there'll be a clause that says, you know,
except for. Your last name is Hunchback.

(01:11:51):
So, you know, whatever it will be, I will not qualify in, you
know. And we should never, we should
never expect something. And let's say it does come
whatever, give you the check. But if not, we shouldn't be sad.
Like, tell yourself you were already gonna manage your life
without. It I'm not sad, I'm not
complaining of it. It's just the way it is.
But I'm just saying when you have a bell curve as as you have

(01:12:12):
these people that that were verylucky.
You have these people over here that are very unlucky.
For example, if you read MalcolmGladwell's book Outliers and he
looks at why are people successful?
And he does an example of the Hockey League in your, in your
country, which is extremely merit based.

(01:12:35):
And it's driven by a layer afterlayer after layer of people who
qualify at one layer get bouncedto the next one.
And you get up to the NHL and you know, and you find out vast
majority of people are actually born in January or February.
That's because the cutoff dates for when people can enter in
leagues is about that time. So if you, if you just miss it,

(01:13:01):
that means you can't go in till following year.
Well, that means when you do go in, your one year older, you're
one year stronger, you're one year more coordinated against
someone who just got in. Yeah.
And so you're going to have an advantage due to nothing more
than the date you were born on. Terrible.

(01:13:22):
And you, Larissa, do you have a a What's an uncomfortable truth
you had to accept about the way success or happiness is really
achieved? Electing seems like a good
answer, but I think a lot of happiness comes from accepting
things the way they are, not trying to change things or

(01:13:46):
expect things to be different. We used to host exchange
students and one of the things that we found is that if an
exchange student had thought a lot about what their host family
was going to be like and what itwas going to be like for them in
when they got to America, they had less happiness and they had
a harder time fitting in. And we had one girl who she

(01:14:11):
lasted 2 weeks and she was very unhappy at our house and we were
just like a temporary host family because their official
host family was out on vacation.And so we had her for a week and
a half and then her host family came and they picked her up and
when she got to their house, it was so much worse than our house
was. And she like Nope, I want to go
home. Like her expectations were here

(01:14:32):
and reality was down here and there was nothing anybody could
do to make her happy because herthose expectations just didn't
align. So if you can just take things
as they are and accept things asthey are, you're going to be
much happier in life. That is so true.
I tell people that all the time.Oh my goodness.

(01:14:53):
And they're like, oh, it sucks. Like guys are like this.
They're always cheat. I'm like, OK, but but that is
life there. So, so it's like you got to deal
with it. It's like, for sure, it's sad
that he cheated, but tell yourself that most guys are
probably pieces of shit like that too.
You can't tell yourself on the next one to be perfect and

(01:15:14):
flawless. No, no, most guys given the
choice And I, I checked that youstudied this shit for like 5
years and most guys given the choice, if nobody's going to
know, well it will happen people.
And so and like when I tell thattheir girls like, well that
sucks. Well, obviously that sucks.
It's fucking ridiculous, but that's life.
So you gotta tell yourself that you gotta find a man that you

(01:15:36):
love so much that let's say he does well, you could deal with
it. Because if you tell yourself
that he's going to be flawless and never do an error, well,
you're gonna be disappointed most of the time for for most
stuff. When it comes to creating
division, what do you guys thinkis the biggest and largest role
in division? Because I have my own opinion
about this and I can't wait to hear what you guys think.

(01:16:01):
I would say at the moment it seems it's going to, it's going
to vary by subject matter. But if you're talking about
political Division, I would say it's the the demonization of the
other side. When you have a political
campaign and you're you're in a particular race, it's very easy
to exaggerate against your opponent.

(01:16:24):
And this is where this whole concept of campaign season
versus governing season used to be is so important because you
you'd fight tooth and nail to the the election.
And then afterwards you just, yeah, everybody gets along and
everyone governs for awhile. Well, what happened is the

(01:16:45):
exaggerations began to be real. You know, at least in people's
mind. You know, there are people out
there, for example, who think Trump really is a dictator and
he's really a Nazi trying to. It's like, no, he's a New York
developer. And if you actually look at what
a developer like, yes, up or somebody who can look at an

(01:17:07):
empty lot and envision a huge building and then has the drive
to actually make that happen, that's a very unique skill set.
I, I don't think I could do it. I, you know, but and then you
combine that with New York, which I remember the first time
I was in New York, we just gotten off our cruise ship and

(01:17:29):
we, yeah, we got our luggage andthe New York Police officer
comes up and he starts yelling at the traffic.
And I go, Yep, this is New York,you know, it's not exactly
Midwest nice is what we would call people from Wisconsin, you
know? That's why they say if you make
in New York, you can make it anywhere in the state anywhere.
It's cause the hardest place. Oh, by one experience with that

(01:17:52):
I, you know, I had to go do a presentation in New York and we
did get the contract in spite ofme so.
And you, Larissa, what do you think is the biggest division?
I think it's this idea that you're always right and
therefore everyone else must be wrong.

(01:18:13):
And our inability to understand that we're not perfect.
And whereas we might be mostly right, it doesn't mean that we
are all right. And there are valid points of
view across the board. And I had a high school teacher
who gave me like, what I would say is the best advice ever.
Everybody is doing the best theycan to get through the day.

(01:18:35):
Exactly. Nobody is out to get you, nobody
is out to ruin your life. They are just doing what they
think they need to do to get through the day.
And when you see everybody as just struggling to get through
the day, you have a different perspective and you can then

(01:18:57):
understand why people do what they do.
You may not agree with it, you may think it's wrong, but
they're not evil exactly becausethey disagree with you.
Yeah, and it creates compassion and understanding for a a person
that's a piece of shit because you're like, OK, he's not just
a, a bad person, like a born bad.

(01:19:19):
No, no, he's just going through probably a lot right now.
That's why he was a Dick when hehe bumped into you and then say
shit. And me with all the research I
did and in media and stuff like that, I think that the biggest
separation is media. It's because that's the
brainwash. That's the hypnosis.
Because it if we all have something at our home, is a

(01:19:40):
fucking screen and a coroner telling us what to believe is
fucking real. That album box in the corner of
the room and is constantly telling us what to believe is
real. It all starts with turn deck God
damn TV off. And.

(01:20:01):
Or more than one. Yeah, and or yeah, more than one
now. And when when you look at it,
it, it it's really it's really sad.
Like I've never seen in my life,like the media anti a president.
Oh my life. Like I saw them having a problem
sometimes with JFK, some things he said, but just barely, like
just a a phrase here, phrase there.

(01:20:22):
We never seen an anti president like we saw at the beginning of
2015 and 2016. I was shocked like every channel
we're just fucking destroying atTrump constantly.
I was like what the hell like what is this?
I never seen this in my life man.
And every person in Canada was anti Trump.
And I was like why are you anti Trump?
Because I don't watch the news in Canada.

(01:20:43):
It's fucking boring. And they were like Oh well they
all say they're bad. When I started to analyzing what
Canadian television was putting on.
While in the US you still have the choice of left and right
even if there's more channels ofthe left.
But in Canada, we just take everything the left says and
that's the script and that's it.We don't even take a grain of

(01:21:03):
salt of the right. No, no, it's all left.
So any Canadian and is mostly anti Trump to the highest degree
because they've been fed this stuff there since the beginning.
So every time I meet a Canadian that's anti Trump, mostly all of
them, I like to ask him like, tell me something he said that
you didn't like. They don't know.
They don't know. They saw a headline that they

(01:21:23):
believed the news and it's like they can't even back up their
beliefs or something because they just accepted.
So I think the media is the mostdangerous thing that that we
have because that is the the start, because everybody's on
their fucking screen, no matter if it's tick tock, Instagram,
YouTube and and anything else that it's a I in my opinion,

(01:21:44):
that's what's the the the biggest problem.
So next question, What is truth really?
Is there? Is there a such thing as your
truth? Or there's only one truth?
Well, I opened up my book on that, Elgin.
Yeah, I opened up my book Seeking Truth by talking about
the philosophy of truth and all the various philosophical views

(01:22:08):
of truth. And in the end, I come down to
it's basically truth is that which conforms to reality.
And philosophers will tell you there's a lot of problems with
that particular view. But I, I think that's probably
the best view. And I know a whole bunch of
others, but I think the best view is truth is that which

(01:22:32):
conforms to reality. And if that is your definition
of truth, then there's no such thing as my truth or your truth,
because there's only one reality.
Exactly. And if you believe that, then
you can't have, you know, I can be wrong.
I could be right, I could be partially wrong.
And I think that's personally, that's where we are.

(01:22:55):
Virtually everybody is partiallywrong.
Nobody knows everything. And therefore I like talking to
other people because I know someof the stuff I believe is wrong.
I just don't know what should, what it is.
And so if I talk to somebody whodisagrees, then they can help me
get rid of the false beliefs I have.

(01:23:17):
And to me, that's the whole core.
If you want to boil down seekingtruth into a just this lowest
common denominator, it's, it's learning the process of getting
rid of the things that are falseout of your belief system.
It isn't so much believing what's true, it is getting rid
of what's false. And if you focus on that, then

(01:23:42):
you know you can. It's hard to to change a belief
that you think is true if it's going to change your position.
That's just psychologically a hard thing to do.
However, dropping a factoid thatyou had picked up, like, you
know, Trump said such and such, well, turns out he didn't,
right. The, the whole what's, what's

(01:24:02):
now known as the the fine peoplehoax where Trump supposedly said
Nazis were fine, fine people. He never said that.
And so you can, you can say, well, Trump's, Trump's terrible,
but I can, I can drop the fine people hoax because it turns out
to be a hoax. It's not.
It didn't happen. Maybe if you drop enough of

(01:24:22):
those hoaxes, you may end up reconsidering Trump.
But you can't start by saying, you know, reconsidering.
If you go to a magnet person, you say, you know, I want you to
realize that Trump's not a good person.
It's going to be very hard sell piece by piece and looking at
getting rid of the the false beliefs and then maybe you can
actually have some success there.

(01:24:43):
Because it's like there dad was on on a podcast and the girl is
like, yeah, but that's your truth.
I'm like, what? She's like, yeah, but that's
your truth. It's not my truth.
It's a fact. It's that one truth.
And she's like, no, no, my truthis.
And she said whatever she said, I'm like, no, no, that's not
your truth. That's your belief.
A truth can be right. There's only one truth.

(01:25:04):
Like you can say the the sky is green and you say that oh,
that's my truth, but it's not really your truth.
That's your opinion. And opinion and belief can be
wrong. But when you and you say that's
the truth, no, the truth is the sky is blue and that's it.
That is the truth. So I believe there's only one

(01:25:24):
truth. Larissa did.
Are you with that opinion? Absolutely I I do agree that we
can't know the truth for every little whatever.
Nobody knows how the universe was started, right?
Yeah, I. Have a really good guess, but
nobody knows, nobody can say with 100% absolute proof.

(01:25:48):
And they can't go back and say, well, here I've got this video
of the start of the world, right?
Like that doesn't exist. So we have to take that based
off of faith. That's not a truth.
That's why they call it the theory, The Big Bang theory,
right? The idea of evolution, the
theory of gravity, right? Their theories, we can't really

(01:26:10):
prove that. So that's not truth.
That's a theory. Exactly.
Truth is things that you can prove.
And I don't think we can know the truth at all times in our
head. But the more information we get,
the more research, the more we pay attention, the more we are
open to those ideas from others,the closer we can get to truth.

(01:26:32):
Absolutely, and that was solid. And a lot of people don't
mention that without me mentioning of The Big Bang
theory is just a theory. A lot of people thought, well, I
thought the end of high school, I thought that that was put in
rockledge that we figured out. So it's good Sam, don't even
check that out. Like it's all good.
And when I was like 23 or something, I started really

(01:26:53):
doing research, research on thisto really learn.
And I was like, wow, OK, no, everything's just a theory
because we don't know. And I was like, OK, well, why do
when I go through high school, they're like, OK, by the way, So
the the facts are The Big Bang theory happened.
I'm like, OK, so we, they they put us, they tell us this shit

(01:27:13):
like it's fucking in rock, but actually it's just a theory
instead of saying that's one of the theories we have.
You can have your own and continue.
No, no, they put it like it's a fact.
So it's literally a brainwashingus to believe that all the
theories that they put in those history books are a fact without
they never put theory and and and upsides those the sayings in

(01:27:34):
particular, So I think. Theories as if they're fact,
even though they call them theories.
We all say The Big Bang Theory. It's even in the TV show The Big
Bang Theory. I was happy that they put.
It people assumed that Well, when you say theory, that means
fact. No, no.
So we're going to end with the critical thinking segment.

(01:27:55):
I, I have a 5 questions that is going to make you think
critically of, of, of the answeror literally make you look back
on critical thinking moments in your own life.
So name 2 two things that we should try at least once in our
life. Two things we should try at
least once, going to another country.

(01:28:22):
Yeah, that's what I was going tosay.
You should travel, see somethingother than where you grew up,
talk to people who didn't like. I mean, you're Canada, you're
close, but you still have a different life.
Your medical system is different, your political system
is different. Your TV is different, you know,

(01:28:42):
But even someone with a different language, again, we
hosted exchange students. And I've been to Germany, I've
been to Portugal, I've been to Ireland and England.
And talking to the natives, the people who grew up in those
countries and their views on life has been very eye opening
and has helped me understand ourcountry and why our country does

(01:29:04):
things the way they do and why England does things the way they
do and why Germany does the things they do.
And it's not perfect, right? You just look at health care and
you may think it's better because you don't have to pay
for her ascriptions, but you also don't get to choose your
end of life plan. And as well and, and Canada and

(01:29:25):
Canada maybe, maybe have a free healthcare, but let's say like,
for example, somebody is lookingfor a new Doctor.
Well, sometimes it takes 5 fucking years.
So, so they give you a doctor and when, let's say you go to
the hospital just because you sprained your ankle or and
whatever and you just need a little medical care while you're

(01:29:46):
considered that the less important right there coming in
the, the so you could be there for 48 hours waiting just for a
sprained ankle compared to US. Oh, you're going to pass quite
fast, but you got a bill. So there I because a lot of
people in Canada, they always complain about that time because
we're we're just wasting time. But hella in hospitals, there's

(01:30:09):
one friend of mine does fucking lazy to shit.
So he would go to normally you would go to clinic, get a paper
to not go to work, But he didn'thave a family doctor, so he had
to go to hospital, man. He went to the hospital for a
day, a day and a half there. And he came back to work the
next day after they're they're they're like, Hey, where's your
doctor paper? You're like, I don't have it for

(01:30:31):
like, well go back home man, we don't need you.
Then like there were firing him.He's like no, no, wait, what
don't you get? I'm in line right now.
They're like well you're at work.
No, no, I'm in line. They said I still have at least
12 hours to go. This shift is 8 hours.
I'll get it for tomorrow. And what do you know the next
day he comes in with a paper of doctor that was signed at 22 AM

(01:30:53):
and and said he was here for like 40 something hours.
Man, I was laughing so much. I'm like this is gold.
This is the KDE system that I highest degree.
Uh, what's one of your personal achievement, either in your
career or your life that you 2 are most proud of?

(01:31:15):
Hmm. I would say adopting my kids.
That is. Beautiful.
One of those things I never thought.
My ex-husband and I tried to have kids and we did everything
up to where I felt comfortable. Right there.
There's a line that I didn't want to cross because I didn't
want to have to make a choice I wouldn't be able to live with,

(01:31:37):
right? And I was like, OK, I guess I'm
not going to have kids. And I would pray.
And I say, you know what, God, if you want me to have kids,
you're going to put them on my doorstep.
And I kind of left it like that.And I just assumed I was just
never going to have kids. I was going to be one of those
people. Who?
Because they don't. There's no kids that just show
up to a place. Can you bear Mama?

(01:31:59):
Well, yeah, except God has a sense of humor.
I got a phone call saying it wasmy ex husband's half sisters
kids. They were in foster care from
severe abuse. I mean, it was, it was horrific
what they went through and they're like, they need a home.
Wow. OK, I didn't mean it literally.

(01:32:19):
I want this serious. You know, and I, I kind of got
to, you know, you get past 30 and you're like, OK, now I'm
getting a little old to have kids.
But they were meant for me and they had given me so much.
And I'm sure you gave them a lotas well.
That's incredible. I hope so, but they were just,

(01:32:42):
they were a gift of God and I'm just so proud of them and just
having them in my life and beinga part of that story is just
amazing. And you, Elgin, do you have an
achievement that you're most proud of?
At the moment, it's that I just,uh, my wife and I just
celebrated, celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary.
Wow. Well, congratulations, most

(01:33:04):
people can't even stay together for five years now.
So I I praise you my friend. It's a little more common than
you think because the, the way they skew the divorce records.
Yeah, marriage. We were counted once back in
1975 and we haven't appeared in the statistics since.

(01:33:26):
OK. All those people that are
successful don't quite get into the divorce versus marriage
statistics. Yeah, that, that, Oh my God,
that that's good to know too. It's a it's eye opening for
sure. What's this surprising theory or
conspiracy that you guys believe?
Well, I probably most surprisingis I actually don't accept

(01:33:49):
really any conspiracy theories used to as a younger kid, you
know, I looked into them all. I look, of course, the JFK I
actually remember distinctly theday he was shot.
I remember how I found out aboutit.
And so it was obviously I lived through that entire time span up

(01:34:12):
to now. And at one point I did think it
was a conspiracy. And then again, that concept of
being open to rejecting little bits and pieces, yeah, actually
it all fell apart. And now I actually think Oswald
did it acting alone. So I I've not yet seen a

(01:34:33):
conspiracy theory that I think holds water.
And you? Ran conspiracy theories.
I'm not talking about you guys conspire to rob a.
Bank. That happens in terms of these
dark secret societies that are controlling everything.
I don't believe in any of those.And you, Larissa?

(01:34:55):
Um, I mean, aside from I believein God, and some people might
think that that's a big hoax or theory, but I do think that
there are evil people in this world that are trying to tear us
apart. Absolutely.
And I don't know how much that'sconspiracy theory.

(01:35:16):
Elgin and I disagree on this. I think it's a conspiracy
theory. He thinks it's not.
But I I do believe that there are evil people, especially rich
evil people, who are trying to tear this world apart.
Absolutely. So the final question, can you
guys share an instance where your intuition or gut feeling

(01:35:37):
led you to a decision that probably challenged the
traditional logic and expectations?
Hmm. So technically, Larissa, that
thing of God about the kids is that that is exactly that and
that that is so incredible. There I had a I had a the girl

(01:35:58):
that was sportscaster that I talked about earlier.
She was she fighting for career the whole time.
So she's 40 something and she retires was forecasting and then
starts at 20 year career in teaching, believe it or not, and
she was like too late. I I I I fucked up family.
So I'm just keeping drive career.
She was a realizing that most kids didn't have the life that

(01:36:19):
she had earlier and she was likedamn my so she started to become
personal with them, trying to help them out even more because
they needed it. And she was realizing that they
were in bad homes and stuff. And she became a foster mom of
four of those children that she had in her class and and changed
her life. Yeah, I think there's a lot of

(01:36:41):
things in in life that change your life.
I had an example once. So I decided to make a decision
of going into it as a developer back in the early 2000s, and
it's still very much a boys club.
And I didn't realize that because it's the 2000s, like
equality, women's rights, equal pay.

(01:37:04):
And it wasn't until I went on a couple of interviews and got
fired for being a woman that I really, really realized that
there are still people in this world that are biased and are
like, I had a, a manager once tell me I just didn't know how
to manage you. I'm a person, I work hard.

(01:37:27):
I've I've never had this issue before.
Where is this coming from? And, you know, I guess I have
different ideas or something than most people.
At that point, I decided to get out of development and I was
also getting pigeonholed into antique technologies.
And it was really hard for me tolearn anything new and be able

(01:37:49):
to advance in technology. If you can't keep up with the
latest and greatest, if you can't work on the latest and
greatest, you don't have marketable skills and it's
really hard to find a job. And so I got out of that and
actually had the best like work like management.
I had like a great boss and great employees and I felt

(01:38:12):
valued, like I could actually say something and people would
listen to me instead of people dismissing me.
And I didn't realize that until after I got out of that
environment. How?
Wow, there there really is stilldifferences between how women
get treated in the workplace andhow men get treated in the
workplace for some careers. Absolutely.

(01:38:35):
And you Elgin, do you have an answer for that?
Not really. It's all good.
Very much irrational guy so I'm it's hard for me to I'm I'm sure
I probably have at times felt things, but.
Yet you're an atheist who's now a Christian.

(01:38:58):
So where can everybody find you guys, your socials, your
podcasts and Elgin your books? Well, uh, pushback.com or for my
books, you can just go out thereand I have, I have a blog and I
have all my books listed. Of course, you can always just
go out to Amazon or, you know, Barnes and Noble or

(01:39:19):
books-a-million or anything likethat.
Just type my name in you'll, you'll see all the books.
You go to Audible. You can get a number of the
books. About half of my books are now
available on Audible, read by Larissa.
And, you know, I'll let her talkabout the podcast.

(01:39:39):
Yeah, so we can be found on Intothedesert.in FO and we are on
YouTube and we are also on Patreon into the Desert YouTube.
It's Into the Desert ideas and I'm on LinkedIn as as well as
Elgin so you can find us out on LinkedIn.
So. Yeah, perfect.

(01:40:00):
So thanks again for coming on it.
It was an honor to meet you guys.
It's a lot of fun. Yeah.
Well, thank you for having us. Mola, it was my pleasure so
thanks everybody and have a great weekend.
That album box in the corner of the room and is constantly
telling us what to believe is real.
It all starts with turn that Goddamn TV.

(01:40:26):
It all starts with closer that shit.
Yo DJ red SAP giving you a bit critical thinking.
Don't swallow anything. Question everything until you
know where you're consuming. Look real on surface.
Take a little deeper out of nowhere.
You're a true seeker due to taskdue to research.
Don't let him gas you up like you want manipulate you up.
While the lies are smoking guns,the fire social and corporate

(01:40:50):
media holds extreme powers and many ties all subject to powers.
Vinnie Paz end of days and hours.
From the Federal Reserve to the Gulf of Tonkin we serve.
From the Titanic alleged accident to the moon landings
incident. Don't panic.
Las Vegas shooting was eminent through 911 was ironic.

(01:41:11):
Fight for logic. Change your optic.
News is toxic. People on the top are Chamonix.
Vernon College Vernon gonna takefor yourself hypercritical
miracle for your mental health. Question everything.
Don't believe shit. Look into it but get noted.

(01:41:32):
Don't quit. Do the research through the
test. Lurking your chest.
It's hard to digest and may looklike a reality, but it's fucking
you up mentally. People hooked except when
they're given. Barely looks swept.
No second lesson, just in a backseat to hell being driven.
Kashmir questioned no answer, nosuggestion unraveled machine

(01:41:52):
like a busty studs are selling you the dream.
Don't be there. She wake up from your sleep
before they're slaughtered aliveand the lies and can't believe
your eyes to the data. Fuck your and stuff.
Go get up fuck your meta. You call your own shots before
humans right You got first take control of your thoughts, see
the pattern you'll intercept andnot just accept the falsehoods

(01:42:14):
bleeding the minds. They've been feeding you blind
since childhood. Misleading the flies.
They'd be keeping you lights. Red rosewood.
Always ahead of the agenda. That's all truth.
No Mandela for Nicholas Fernicola, take for yourself.
Hypercritical miracle for your mental health, Question

(01:42:34):
everything doubly shit. Look into it, but get noted.
Don't quit due to research, due to test lurch in your chest.
It's hard to digest. Teach others to spread their
flickery facts. Don't be the masses that follow
activity packs. Critical thinking is the key.
Simply to feel free and keep your dignity.

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