Only2mg of Can Kill You: Former DEA Supervisory Special Agent Exposing the Fentanyl Crisis EP76

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
With substance use disorder, youknow, addiction, we use words
like attic, we use words like junkie, we use all these
derogatory terms to describe these people.
I mean, if you had cancer, wouldI say, Hey, cancer, how you
doing? Right?
But but if you're struggling with, with, with coke, I'd say,
hey, you addict, you know, I mean, it's, it's messed up and
it's just, it's, we look at it as some moral failing and then

(00:20):
we just, we turn off all empathyand compassion for these people.
And quite frankly, it it, it, itdoes make me sad, but also
pisses me off that we can't be human beings and we can have a
little compassion for each other.
He was very paranoid. He, he actually started going
into hiding. And The funny thing about it,
looking back is I couldn't have arrested them.
I had had nothing. I had no dope on the table.

(00:42):
I didn't have. Enough.
You need so much to really have that case almost sealed before
you go there. You need to make sure it's
there. There's no wiggling out there
because DNA. I learned that from the other
guy I had on there. We're not going to go arrest the
guy. And yes, it's flawless.
And so so he told me that he waswaiting sometimes months

(01:06):
wiretapping, just waiting as thecar for days and days.
Like so some of his friends already forgot him at a wiretap
place. They called him like, what?
What are you doing, Garrick? Well, I'm checking this guy like
OHT bro, we forgot to tell we'reat the bar.
He's like, what the fuck? That's how a dedication you guys
put in making sure that you haveeverything though, because you

(01:28):
don't want to him wiggle out. 100% And that's why when you
look at the average DEA agent, FBI agent HSI, very rarely do
you actually testify in court. I mean, most of it's, you know,
it's indictments, grand juries or, or some hearings here and
there. But as far as a trial, many of
these folks don't go to trial because these are slam dunk.

(01:49):
Cases, Gary told me. It's because you go, you guys
put so much resources and money on something that Oh yeah, we're
putting this there for have a comeback on this that we, we
want that arrest. You know, if, if, if, if your
threshold is 2 witnesses, I'm going to give you 6 with
thresholds a pound of dope. I'm gonna give you 3 lbs.
I, I don't want any wiggle room when I, when I come for you and

(02:12):
I put handcuffs on you, it's, we're over, we're done.
I created an organizational chart in my second assignment
and you know, everyone puts the,the, you know, the CEO or the
director or the boss, chief, whatever you want to call it at
the top of this, this, this foodchart, right?
And all the workers. Well, I don't see it that way.
I really don't. I flipped it.
I had all the workers at top andthen the supervisors and then

(02:35):
all the way. Down the pyramid was upside
down. And I remember I had a
supervisor come in and it's like, this is what?
What is this crap? This is an organizational chart.
And he's like, why aren't at top?
I'm like, because you're not, you serve all these people here.
And if you can't buy into that, then why you have to question
why are you become a management?But I don't think anyone fully

(02:58):
understood that we were about tostart losing 300 people a day.
Yeah, wow, that's incredible from coming from, that's being
honest too, of coming from somebody that's living around
these drug cartels and stuff. And even you right then and
there. It's like almost that phrase
that you don't understand, that you're lost in the woods because

(03:18):
you're stuck against the tree there, because you're so in it
that that you don't even realizethe depth of this forest.
You know, originally, you know, when I was in the Academy, I had
no interest in ever being a supervisor.
I just, you know, and that's, that's pretty common when you
talk to the young guys and girlsin the Academy.
And I just tell me what to do. I'll go do it.
But yeah. People in jail let me jump out

(03:39):
of some helicopters. Right.
Let me do the fun stuff that I signed up to do.
But, you know, being a supervisor was an honor, an
absolute honor. I hope that if you interviewed
all the folks that I ever had the privilege, privilege of, of,
of, you know, being their supervisor, they would tell you
that, you know, that I had, thatI had their back, you know, that

(04:02):
I, that I was supported them andI cared about them and was that
most people don't care about these things unless it impacts
them. Exactly.
And I wanted to show that I could be an agent of change,
positive change before the impact.
And, and so that's why I did it.And, and, and again, I'm not,
I'm happy for all these other organizations.
I, I, I think it's important what they're doing.

(04:23):
And I think it's wonderful that that they're, that they're,
they're finding a way to, to help people be, you know, but
I'm, I'm my, I got so frustratedwhen I, when I, the audiences
are only people who work around this stuff or lost to family or
friend, you know, and I'm like, can, can I encourage people to

(04:43):
take an interest in this before that?
Before, yeah. And be a force multiplier and
have them take these conversations into their homes
and into their communities and maybe have specially young
people, maybe have someone say, yeah, this is dangerous.
How people went up to see him, like wow, you're strong to say
yes because we're not weak to say it people, but that's how we

(05:06):
feel before saying it. But after you say it, you
realize that you're not the onlyone going through this, and you
saying your story could help others there.
You know when I talk to young people and if there's any people
listening to us talk right now. If you're struggling with
something, guess what? Your life matters.
Go find some help. Absolutely.
Don't don't go alone. You know, don't, don't think you

(05:28):
can manage this on your own if you're struggling with something
real and go, go find some help because you are worth it.
I'm telling you you're, you're there's people out there.
I mean, we, we care about you. I don't, I don't know who you
are listening to me, but I'm telling you we, we care about
you and, you know, get the help you need.
Like profound things they've said, the hugs, the, you know,

(05:48):
they, they tell me about the, you know, just some really
personal stories about, you know, the, the, the, the
environments that they're in, the, their parents, their family
members. And it's heartbreaking sometimes
it really is. We feel it in your voice right
now, obviously. This is powerful it.

(06:08):
Really shows how genuine you areand we appreciate that for sure.
What's an aspect of being a former DA that you believe is
misrepresented by movies and media?
We get things done in an hour. That that, that, that is so
true. We all think there that they get
a call and they just swat the place and see you later.

(06:30):
You, you watch a show, you know,like like a ESI and whatever
these shows are called and like,let's say they're in DC and
they're like, you know, they geta call and then all of a sudden
they're on the street. I'm like, alright, first of all,
you ever been to Washington, DC?It's gonna take a least an hour
and 15 minutes to drive that 15 miles like, and one of the
things they really wanted from me was, was drug training,
right? And, and, and drug related

(06:51):
training because of my experience with DEA.
So I had developed an opioid presentation.
In fact, it was only two hours at the time and it went over
really, really well. And then it just took off it
really. Two hours, most people would
would think like a 40 minute PowerPoint would be good enough.
Oh yeah, two hours. Let's go.
I got a lot of like. Oh yeah, and then it went to 2

(07:12):
1/2 4 hour presentation, in fact.
I know when you're going throughthis shit, like sometimes it
feels like the fucking light outof the tunnel is not there.
You're like such a darkness. You're like, Oh my God, there's
nowhere to go. But I'm telling you, people keep
fucking going forward. And but because at certain point
it could last a day, a week, a years.
But at certain point, if you keep going forward, the light

(07:34):
will fucking appear. Hope and crumbs will appear.
But when you're in that moment, it's all darkness because you're
just so deep down that hole. But there's always light.
It's just you're so far and we just gotta keep moving forward.

(08:25):
Well, welcome back on our Rumbling Facts podcast, where
Uncomfortable Truths collides with critical thinking for raw,
unfiltered conversations that will drive real growth in the
real ones out there. This is your #1 destination to
challenge the script, dive into issues that most people will
avoid and and spark that kind ofmindset shift that actually
moves you towards your goals. I'm your host DJ Rhett Sam, and

(08:47):
that's a DJ with Master Upside Down.
I'm a rapper, creator, truth seeker, and the founder of
Making Others Read, a nonprofit that that takes books that
people don't want anymore and wegive them back to underserved
communities because knowledge ispower people, and it should
never be wasted. My music hit over 225,000
streams in the past year and I appreciate y'all just for

(09:10):
checking it out. And today we're talking about
something deadly serious. People with major issues facing
the world today like opioids andfentanyl.
This epidemic has wrecked havoc in communities claiming lives
all over and it continues to spiral out of control with
horrible consequences. In 2021 alone and more than

(09:32):
100,000 people in the US died from a drug overdose, with
nearly 75% of them of death coming from opioids and
fentanyl. To give your you guys an idea,
fentanyl there is 50 times stronger than heroin and is
responsible for a shocking number of fatalities with deaths
increasing year by year. It's never going to go down.

(09:52):
People with only two milligrams the size of two fucking grains
of salt people is enough to fucking kill you.
In 2023 alone over 74,000 peopledied from this essential
synthetic opioid overdose in theUS.
To put things more perspective to finish this off, the reality

(10:13):
of this is sadly this fentanyl is now the leading cause of
death in America and Americans between 18 and 45 listen to this
outpacing car accidents, cancer,heart disease, gun violence, and
any other drug combined. People.
These numbers are staggering andshould fucking shock you, but

(10:33):
yet the true magnitude of this is still a problem that is not
fully understood by many today. There, I'm honored to to bring a
man whose life work has been dedicated to the safety of
well-being. Brian Townsend is a retired DEA
Supervisory Special Agent and let me tell you, his career

(10:54):
speaks fucking volumes. With over 30 years in the
service of law enforcement, Brian's life is a true testament
of courage, sacrifice, unwavering commitment to
protecting communities from the most dangerous threats that we
face. As one of the leading figures in
the DA, Brian played a crucial role in dismantling

(11:15):
international drug cartels and disrupting deadly operations
that affect millions of lives every day.
Brian isn't just a man of actionpeople, he's also a man of
purpose. He helped build and lead the DEA
training Academies Leadership and Development program,
mentoring and inspiring the nextgeneration of fucking heroes and

(11:36):
law enforcement. With With his experience, he's
not only shaped the future of DEA, but also contributed to
countless success stories in thebattle against drug and crime.
Now Brian Focus is tackling the fentanyl crisis head on.
He's the founder of Only Two MG.Like I said, do grain of salt.
That's why he calls it again, a nonprofit organization that

(11:58):
raises awareness about the fatalrisk of fentanyl and doing it
the vital work of educating their different communities
about how to protect themselves.This is a man who is given
decades of his life, his time, his energy and his health to
ensure the lives and the lives of others too so we have a safe

(12:18):
world. Heroes like Brian are often
overlooked, but today I want to make sure I gave him the
recognition he fucking deserves.So sit back, take notes and get
ready. Brian, I'm grateful to have for
your service and commitment for this cause.
You are true hero in my book. Let's welcome Brian Townsend to
rumbly fastball guest. How you doing?
Good. Thank you.

(12:38):
I appreciate the introduction. Not sure who that guy is, but I
appreciate the kind words. I, I, I knew this shit was so,
such a problem, but like by looking at the stats and
everything, I was, I was like, well, I, I knew this was bad,
but the, this is a real bad. So I was like, wow.
And we can have this person on to really open it up for people

(13:02):
to that. That's really inspiring.
What initially inspired you? So we get a basis of it?
What initially inspired you to pursue law enforcement First
off, and what was the driving force behind you being like?
Ohhhhh going DA now? You know, when I was a a child,
I saw, I saw drugs in my community, in my neighborhood.

(13:26):
I saw people who were friends and family members of friends
who were, were struggling with, with drugs and, and from an
early age, I saw what it was doing and how it's impacting
people in a very negative way. And so I just made a decision 1
is that I'm not going to put this poison in my system.
I'm just not going to, you know,I don't see any advantage of

(13:47):
doing that. And then ultimately I just led
to an interest in working in lawenforcement, seeing how can be,
how can I be part of the solution?
You know, how can I, can I keep this poisoning off our streets
and, and, and make our communities safer?
So I, you know, I, I had an interest in being a police
officer, specifically the DEA, but quite frankly, I didn't, you

(14:08):
know, I was young, you know, you, I'm sure I could have
changed paths very easily. Like, like the wind blows,
right? Yeah, But I had the thought and
I had the, the dream and, and itjust slowly started to, to, to
work. You know, I went to, I worked in
a restaurant with a person whosehusband worked at the FBI

(14:30):
Academy in Quantico. And I grew up in Northern
Virginia, so just just down the street from Quantico.
And I had the opportunity in collar, I'm sorry, in high
school to, to go visit the facility.
And, and DEA at that time was training there in the, in the
facility. And of course I didn't tell the
FBI guys this, but I saw the DEAguys there and I'm like, that's
what I wanted. To do.

(14:52):
Those guys are badass, you know,and, and absolutely wanted to do
that. And again, I, I truly had no
idea what that path was. I mean, the Internet, you know,
wasn't as, wasn't it was now andthings like that.
And, um, things just fell into place.
You know, I was making good decisions and I just, I knew
that I wanted to commit my life to working against these things

(15:13):
because I saw the damage they were doing.
But, you know, it all worked out.
I went, they went to college, I got my degrees and became a
police officer. And that was a wonderful
experience. And, but ultimately I was able
to transition into the DEA and, and fulfill a dream And, and
yeah, I was getting paid to do what I loved.
I couldn't imagine. I couldn't.

(15:35):
There's no there there, there's no better feeling than what
you're getting paid for is also the passion there behind it.
Can you share any stories that were maybe impactful during your
DEA or it's all so classified that you can't even mention?
Like you don't need to mention acase in particular, but what was
there some moments that were really impactful like that you

(15:59):
told yourself while I'm really doing the right thing in the
direction I chose? Yeah, absolutely.
You know, most of our cases, at least the idea for DEA is that
you're going to work the biggestand baddest.
You know, you're not going to just take someone off the street
with a. With two grams of weed.
Yeah, yeah. You might start it announce

(16:19):
case, but you know, hopefully it's a little bit more than
that. And then you're just going to,
you know, you're going to use the tools and resources and the
investigative skills that, that,that, that we're pretty good at
really to take that case as far as we can.
We want to link it to, let's saya drug cartel or, or a, you
know, a violent criminal network.
So did lots of those. I had a fun case.

(16:42):
I say fun it was. It was actually featured on
there's a show on A&E called Undercover caught on tape and
season 1 episode 6, the last 20 minutes.
You can, you can get this, you can hear this story, but it was
a course, it was a cool investigation.
I couldn't talk about it for years, but I really liked about

(17:02):
it from a DEA perspective. I mean, it was a conspiracy
case. It was an undercover case.
It was a multi jurisdictional case.
I mean, it met so many of the criteria that that as a manager
later on in my career, I would want my guys to do, you know,
these work these cases to the fullest.
And yeah, to get to the top, go get that big fish that, that,
that starting in it. Absolutely.
And in this particular case, I don't know if you want to hear

(17:24):
some of the some of. The for sure, for sure.
You know, it started as a, as a case of a methamphetamine case.
And, and at this time, this was the early 2000s, we weren't
seeing meth in these quantities,you know, normal.
Most of the math we were seeing was, you know, a couple grams
that were, you know, mom and pop.
Labs, not pounds. Was it all you came across the

(17:47):
pound case, especially in rural America?
I mean, it was a big deal in theearly 2000s, we were paying, to
give you some perspective, we were probably paying $1800 an
ounce and undercover operations.I mean, right now you can get a
pound of methamphetamine for $750, you know, and you're still
paying probably $2000, but $2000a pound.

(18:07):
And this was, you know, early 2000s, we were paying $1800 for
an ounce. I mean, that's a significant
difference right there. But so anytime we had anyone
selling Oz levels, we were interested because we knew that,
you know, he or she would probably have a very good
connect. You know, yeah, that's it.
When a person has that much like, OK, the connection is

(18:27):
good, he has somebody good. Yeah, for sure.
If, if all they can, you know, if they can sell you 1/4 gram,
you're like, you know, they're, they're probably pretty low on
the food chain and not somethingthat we're interested in
working. But so, yeah, we had this guy
who was able to move quantities of meth and and that got on our
radar and I started a a conspiracy investigation.

(18:48):
So I was trying to prove that him and his Co conspirators were
involved in the, you know, the distribution of of
methamphetamine. And I was trying to work this
case as high as as I could and and was talking to a lot of his
Co conspirators and just some ofhis associates.
And and I made no, you know, there's no secret that I was I
mean, I was knocking on doors and yeah, it's looking at cell

(19:09):
phones. I was was doing all the things
that were trained to do and and then I was asking people that
knew him question. So it pretty quick.
He he learned that I was. After him.
Right. And so he was very paranoid.
He, he actually started going tohiding.
And The funny thing about it looking back is I couldn't have
arrested them. I had had nothing.

(19:29):
I had no dope on the table. I didn't have enough.
Matcha to really have that case almost sealed before you go
there, you need a lot to make sure it's there.
There's no wiggling out there because DNA.
I learned that from the other guy I had on there.
We're not going to go arrest theguy unless it's flawless.

(19:50):
Look so. So he told me that he was
waiting sometimes months wiretapping, just waiting as the
car for days and days like some prison.
Some of his friends already forgot him at a wiretap.
They called them like, what? What are you doing, Garrick?
Well, I'm checking this guy like, bro, we've got to.
We're at the bar. He's like, what the fuck?

(20:13):
That's how much dedication you guys put in making sure that you
have everything though, because you don't wanna him wiggle out.
100% and that's why when you look at the average DEA agent,
FBI agent HSI, very rarely do you actually testify in court.
I mean, most of it's, you know, it's indictments, a grand juries
or, or some hearings here and there.

(20:33):
But as far as a trial, many of these folks don't go to trial
because these are slam dunk cases.
Exactly. Sonny's office, I don't care
which district you're in, in this country, they're not going
to just take a case based on, you know, garbage.
They're they're you. Like you said, it's a slam dunk.
And I'm not saying that that 100% of the time, but it feels

(20:54):
like 100%. Yeah, like at 90%, absolutely.
And, and it's also like Gary told me, it's because you go,
you guys put so much resources and money on something that Oh
yeah, we're putting this there for have a comeback on this that
we, we want that arrest. 100 Youknow, if, if, if, if your
threshold is 2 witnesses, I'm going to give you 6 thresholds a

(21:16):
pound of dope. I'm gonna give you 3 lbs.
I I don't want any wiggle room when I, when I come for you and
I put handcuffs on you, it's we're over, we're done.
I want your cooperation. I want to be able to take this,
this case higher and and expand it.
But I got you. You know what I mean?
It's it's and, and I think that's, that's a cool thing.
That's one of the things that makes us more effective.

(21:39):
And yeah, you can talk about laws all day, but when you can
afflict that law, oh shit, that's when you feel like, wow,
I chose being an officer to apply those laws.
And that's what I'm doing by taking people off those streets
like and like selling a gram of weed or or seven, 7 grams to
your to your neighbor for him tosmoke weed.
That's another thing, like whatever you have weed extra,

(22:02):
the guy wants to smoke, It's something else.
Well, when when we're in chemicals, drugs like literally
destroying lives, killing peopleand even cocaine, like I've been
through cocaine hell and back 10years ago, I was stuck on
freebase for two years straight.And if those drugs would be a a
like because it just takes like a grain of salt of fentanyl or

(22:26):
you don't even know what they'reputting in it now to to kill
you. So that's why it's important for
for you guys to afflict those laws, especially on those
chemicals and stuff like that. They're destroying you,
everybody. Yeah, I know 100%.
Have you seen in drug trafficking from both the
operational and the leadership perspective, What insight can

(22:46):
you share about dismantling large organization?
You do you need to attach yourself with with like a
certain because I heard that from Gary and when us civilians,
we think that the FBI talks 100%with the DEA, who talks 100%
with the the the town cops and not at all actually.

(23:07):
And I was like, what? I would have thought they were
teaming up to make sure they gotthe bag, you know, because it's
like a competition in a way. So can you walk us through a bit
like how it is a working to really dismantle something big?
You know, it, it, it really depends on the jurisdiction.
First of all, I mean, I, I'm so fortunate.
I've worked in places where I had really, really good

(23:28):
relationships with the locals, state police, FBI, other federal
agencies. But I did see that quite a bit.
You know, I saw, you know, feelings get hurt, egos, you
know, I saw people that would destroy cases because it wasn't,
they weren't a part of it. And I thought this is silly.
You know the obvious. We put the bad person in jail,

(23:49):
hold people accountable, you know, enforce the law, right,
You know, but you know, you gotta work through that and
that's and that's the realities that happens to to suggest it
doesn't this is silly. You know, you've heard it before
and we we all you know, I'm sureheard stories of of of people
who just they don't deconflict. They think these cases are
theirs and the. Biggest I saw that too.

(24:12):
They they take the case from another and sometimes they screw
it up. Yeah, absolutely.
So, you know, I've been very fortunate.
I really have. One of the things that I learned
pretty early on is you got established relationships if you
want to be successful as an investigator.
I don't care for DEA. I don't care if you're at the
local Police Department. You've got to establish
relationships. You got established
relationships in the community. You got to establish

(24:33):
relationships with the people that you're you're dealing with.
And some criminals. Criminals, little investigators,
other agencies when you can pickup a phone and you can and you
can have a dialogue, you know, the 18th time as opposed to
well, there's a problem and I'm calling you for the first time.
We, you know, when I was in South Texas, we used to work
with Border Patrol a lot, a lot.And I found it very important to

(24:57):
establish relationships with them because we sometimes we'd
have problems, right? And the last thing you want to
do is, you know, hey, Bob, I know this is the first time I
ever called you, but we have a problem.
No, that's unacceptable. And that happens sometimes.
Yeah, for sure. But if you can say, hey, Bob,
how you doing? How's the wife?
How's the kids? You know, in in you're building
that you know, talk to him 10/20/30 times.

(25:18):
You've built a relationship withhim and now there's a problem.
Guess what? You you both want to see
resolution that makes. Sense you are reading the papers
of the guy that went through, he's like, Oh yeah, you were
looking for a Bob. I got it, man.
Yeah, that's what you want. You want communication and
transparency? Yeah.
And you know, the thing, it's not hard.
I mean, we're talking about, we're talking about just like

(25:39):
you and me just talking, you know, building some rapport
here. I mean, it's not hard to do And,
and, and, and it's just so frustrating when you see people
who refuse to do that or don't understand the importance of
that. That's the that's the big thing.
You know, once you do that and of course you're going to have
some, you know, some rivalry andsome things that happen, but but

(25:59):
for the most part, if you can tear them as balls, you're going
to so much more work done. We're going to be so much more
effective. And, and like I said, I was very
thankful early on to see that asas a young DEA agent.
And I mean, I remember my first couple months I was in the car
driving. I was an ARC.
I was in Little Rock, AR was my first assignment.
And I'm telling you, I was driving to that entire state and

(26:21):
knocking on doors, calling sheriffs, chiefs, you know, and
I can't tell many times, like, why are you here?
What do you want to talk about? I was just trying to establish
some ground, some footwork, you know, some relationships.
So you were you were smart enough right away at the
beginning. Be like, man, I might as well
have connections like lines thatgo through that.
Let's say I need something I canjust do that line. 100% yeah.

(26:43):
And you know, I got lucky. I mean I.
Did you have a good mentor that told you you need that like that
is supported or you just figure it out?
Just figured it out and I didn't, I don't think I even
understood the significance at the time until I really, I just,
you know, I hate to not give myself credit, but I, I think I
was just getting lucky. My subconscious down inside you,

(27:04):
you knew that gathering more information, could it be wrong?
I think this in subconscious youwere like, no matter what it's
information, I can rack it up after.
Yeah, you know, and you know, and I think the flip side of
that is, is maintaining those relationships.
And I can tell you that I think I did that pretty good.
But then there were times when Ithink I, I didn't, I failed, you

(27:24):
know, and I and I hate that. I hate when I when I have when
there were chances where I couldhave maintained these these
these incredible relationships for, you know, a long, long,
long time and I just I just didn't and I know that's a two
way St. that person could have. Also.
As well, but that's important and I would tell any, any person
who wants to get into, I would say this goes beyond law

(27:46):
enforcement just absolutely sucha such a incredible soft skill
that we need. To where everybody's on in desk
and only talk to those four people in that room.
But if you talk to an like the other room of four people that
are in another room when they pass by, hey, how you doing?
Well, everything just seems better there.

(28:07):
And let's say they're going to lay you off on one spot.
They're like, hey, we got a spothere and well, Nancy would have
told you that if you didn't say hi to her every day.
So having a being a decent humanbeing with other people, that is
very powerful. A lot of people that we live in,
in the world of cell. If you're not in here, I'm not

(28:28):
talking to you. Instead of opening that door for
that person, being a genuine human, that really can change an
open doors for ourselves. But a lot of people don't think
that. As a supervisory special agent,
you likely oversaw a lot of highstakes operation and managed
teams tackling a lot of complex cases.
From your experience, what was the the key leadership qualities

(28:52):
needed to successfully lead teams and such intense high
environment? Communication, you know, I know
we spoke about it, but I can't, I can't say it.
So communication is going to develop trust.
And when when people can trust you and they understand that
you're transparent and you're authentic, they're going to
trust you, you know, and they'regoing to, they're going to buy

(29:12):
into your message and they're going to believe in you, right?
And, um, so when we're doing risk management and looking at
our operations from different angles, you know, they know
there's a competent person involved in that process and you
can trust the process and you can trust the decisions being
made. That's huge.
And that's something that's really important in, in our

(29:34):
career. I mean, we're, we're in a lot of
high stake, dangerous environments quite a bit at DEA.
And, and, you know, we have to, if the trust the process, we
have to believe in the process with the trust each other.
And, and that's, that's something that doesn't just come
out of thin air. I mean, you know, it's something
you have to burn, right? And and and work on and and and
and and maintain, you know, because you can, you can erode

(29:57):
trust in a in a heartbeat. Yeah, yeah, it was probably a
huge honor for you to become a supervisory special agent
because I checked it out and they don't let everybody get
gain that position. I was like, OK, well, this this
is something else. So this guy like worked fucking
hard to to to become a supervisor because that's where

(30:17):
you you get. How do you call that?
You you get a lot of responsibilities that because
it's not only you now, now you're building the the next one
there. So it's really incredible that
how is that feeling? Were you aiming to to go that
high or it it just came to you because of your work?

(30:38):
You know, originally, you know, when I was in the Academy, I had
no interest in ever being a supervisor.
I just, you know, and that's, that's pretty common when you
talk to the young guys and girlsin the Academy.
And I just tell me what to do. I'll go do it.
But people in jail, let me jump out of some helicopters, right?
We do the fun stuff that I signed up to do.
But, you know, being a supervisor was an, an honor, an

(31:01):
absolute honor. I hope that if you interviewed
all the folks that I ever had the privilege, privilege of, of,
of, you know, being their supervisor, they would tell you
that, you know, that I had, thatI had their back, You know, that
I that I always supported them and I cared about them.
And then I was authentic and, and you know, that we built a,

(31:23):
you know, a good relationship oftrust and I truly believe in
servant leadership. I truly believe that I was, I
remember I had a, I had, I, I created an organizational chart
in my second assignment. And you know, everyone puts the,
the, you know, the CEO or the director or the boss chief,
whatever you want to call it at the top of this, this, this food

(31:43):
chart, right? And all the workers.
Well, I don't see it that way. I really don't.
I flipped it. I had all the workers at top and
then the supervisors and then all the way.
Down the pyramid was upside down.
And I remember I had a supervisor come in and it's
like, this is what what does this crap?
This is an organizational chart and he's like, why are on it
top? I'm like, because you're not you

(32:05):
serve all these people here. And if you can't buy into that,
then why you have to question why are you become a management?
Wow, I truly believe that if if it is an honor and a privilege
to lead people. Absolutely.
And if you can't understand the importance and the significance
and the impact that you're goingto have in their lives, then you

(32:29):
don't deserve to be in that position.
And another way to see is like they all leave under you.
You can't do shit, you leave. Oh, you can get replaced and the
wheel still rolling. So I I see it like that and I
completely agree with that. Why you put it like that for
sure the guy was shocked. Yeah, he was.
And if I'm going to look good asa manager and if I'm going to be

(32:50):
able to put stuff on my resume, guess, guess who's doing that
work at the end. I'm I'm.
I'm not saying that I'm not partof that process.
But. But they can shut down as well.
You know, if you work for a bad,you know what you call a toxic
boss or or person, you know how much extra work, how much
innovation, how much creativity,you know, how much, how much

(33:11):
effectiveness are you really getting out of your people?
Right. And, and then, but if you want,
if you want the accolades, if you want to be able to say, you
know, our group did this and ourteam did this well, then show
the impact that you have as a, as a, as a manager and, and be a
leader and be a, be a person forthem.
And so anyway, this is one of the things I do, you know, I, I

(33:32):
talked about leadership quite a bit.
So I just. Was there something that was
hard in the transition to becomesupervisory?
Was there a transition that was kind of rough for you or that
you had to adapt to? You know, it was internal.
Am I good enough to do this? And I, I tell you that I
struggle with that. You know, the first couple
meetings I had with my group, you know, what are they gonna

(33:52):
think? They gonna think I'm a fraud?
Are they going to think I'm not worthy of this position?
You know, and so you, you doubt yourself, right?
You, you have those internal battles and that's just the
reality. I I never went into these
positions saying I'm the guy andI'm going to, you know, I not at
all. And I know there are people out
there that can do that. Hey, good for them.
But but I was, you know, I was struggling with did I make the

(34:13):
right decision? You know, am I going to be able
to do this? And because it wasn't about, you
know, a title or more money. It was about, you know, making a
difference in. This is not about you anymore.
Like in a way, it's really aboutso much more.
Bigger than life. Absolutely. 100 you put so much
pressure on yourself for. Sure.
And then you're dealing with people from I mean, you might

(34:36):
have an employee who's dealing with a a divorce.
You might have an employee who just lost a child.
You might have an employee who you know, doesn't work a lot and
you gotta, you gotta get on him or her, you know, you might have
an, you know what I mean, like you.
Got different personalities, different perspective, and yeah,
yeah, you gotta deal with everybody differently.
Yeah, and you look, I look back and that's the struggle.

(34:56):
And thankfully I was very fortunate.
But that's, it's, it's usually not the job itself.
The job itself is, is usually not that hard.
It's, it's all, it's all the personalities and it's all the
individual feelings and things like that because you, you have
to manage them, right? You you're, you're emotional
intelligence, you're, you know, understanding how to how to
adapt to a person and effectively communicate with him

(35:18):
might be different or with one person might be different with
than another person. Right.
So, you know, it's I like it. I think it's a fun.
I don't know that I ever want tobe a manager again, but I think
it's a fun. It's a fun process.
Since I went, I went through drugs 10 years ago, I, I never
realized back then that fentanylwas this bad and opioids, I, I

(35:42):
don't know if 10 years ago it was that bad probably.
And I didn't realize it because in Canada here, I, I never seen
opioids. I never seen fentanyl.
I never heard of it. And I, I was in, in drugs.
There's a so I knew every kind of fucking drug dealer and there
was nothing like that around here in Quebec, especially by
started realizing that the world, that North America had

(36:05):
that this problem. Like doing 2017 in 2019 when I
saw like 3 of the biggest rappers that I appreciate and
listen to every day, Little Peep, Juice World and and Mac
Miller all died one after another, one year after another.
And we're talking about not people in their 40s, people like
2 guys in their 21 millionaires and the other one is 26.

(36:26):
These guys were tough shaper, but like I said, two grains of
salt dead. So was there a moment in your
career that you you really realized the seriousness, an
impact that fentanyl and opioidshad?
And you were like oh shit, this is way worse than I thought
initially. Sadly, and I'm just being

(36:46):
completely honest here, I didn'trealize it until the end of my
career. And I don't think, I don't think
DNA and a whole we saw it coming.
You know, we talked about the emerging threats.
We've talked, we've been talkingabout fentanyl since really
probably 2013, 2014. And even in 2016, DEA put some
literature out, incorrect literature, but they put some
literature out about the, the dangers of fentanyl.
But you know, I remember, I remember even early on my

(37:10):
actually probably in the late 2000s, 2007, 2008, we were
seeing what opioids were doing to communities.
But I don't truly think we understood the impact at the
time. I really don't.
I mean, looking back now, it's devastating what happened,
right? But I don't think we really
fully respected or appreciated this serious.
I mean, we, I saw little towns just destroyed by oxy and

(37:35):
Percocet and hydrocodone and allthese pills.
And, you know, but we are really, I think our focus was, I
mean, methamphetamine is still the number one sees drug in the
United States. And you know, like I said, we
were seeing the the cartels thatwere shifting from, you know,
the mom and pop labs that we were seeing in the US to the
cartels taking over the meth trafficking.

(37:56):
We saw an increase in heroin. We didn't understand why.
And we know now know that was because of the increase in
opioids. We saw an increase in cocaine of
marijuana. I mean, it's just so, yeah, I'd
love to say that we were on top of this stuff.
What we knew about it, we saw it.
There were a lot of bulletins and, and, and and and drug

(38:16):
reports and, you know, emerging threats coming.
But, but I don't think anyone fully wow, understood that we
were about to start losing 300 people a day.
Yeah, one that's incredible fromcoming from and that's being
honest too, of coming from somebody that's living around
these drug cartels and stuff. And even you right then and
there. It's like almost that phrase

(38:38):
that you don't understand that you're lost in the woods because
you're stuck against a tree there because you're so in it
that that you don't even realizethe depth of this forest.
That is incredible in a very honest for you to say like that.
I have the uncomfortable truths of life section.
So I'm gonna ask you like uncomfortable truths of life
that you went through and we're going to see a kind of answers

(39:00):
that that comes out of there. What's something about the old
opioids and fentanyl crisis thatyou feel could be better
understood or improved? There's a few answers there.
I think there is still misconception that being around
fentanyl will kill you. It's a very dangerous drug.
We should respect that. We know that only 2 milligrams

(39:22):
is enough to kill you, but that 2 milligrams has got in got to
get into your body. It's got to get through your
system somehow. Just being around it, just
touching it will not create an overdose.
And I know we've seen the videosout there.
We hear the stories. I think that's still for the
longest time it was in law enforcement that was believed
because of the videos were all primarily cops.

(39:43):
Right. So probably you guys were
dressing up to the highest degree when you were gonna pick
some up there like an alien. Oh wow, and they still do it and
I'm not faulting them. Whatever.
Whatever, sorry. Sure, right.
But for me, Nitro gloves, period, it's the only thing I've
wore, you know, my last couple years I was around fentanyl
quite a bit and and you know, Nitro gloves, that's it.

(40:06):
So, but the public itself still believes that.
So it's interesting when I talk to when I travel across the US
and I talk about fentanyl, there's, there's still this
misconception that just being around it's going to kill you
and just defies common sense because everywhere, that's
probably the biggest one. Yeah.
What's an aspect of being a former DA that you believe is

(40:29):
misrepresented by movies and media?
We get things done in an hour. That that, that, that is so
true. We all think there that they get
a call and they just swat the place and see you later.
You, you watch a show, you know,like like a ESI and whatever
these shows are called and like,let's say they're in DC and

(40:51):
they're like, you know, they geta call and then all of a sudden
they're on the street. I'm like, alright, first of all,
you've been to Washington, DC. It's gonna take a least an hour
and 15 minutes to drive that 15 miles, like, you know, But
really, I mean, a lot of folks believe that they, they expect
this. And trust me, I would love to be
able to, but it takes time, right?
Absolutely. And like we talked about

(41:11):
earlier, I mean, you want to putyou want to put them right
investigation down around US attorney's office.
So these folks? And that's for sure.
What's the hardest truth you realize in your career or life?
Oh gosh, you know, I we touched on it already.
I that that a lot of folks don'tsee the greater good of working

(41:35):
with each other and be conflicting and maintain
developing and maintaining relationships that will help
what we're doing. It'll help move the ball faster,
further, more effectively. So yeah, that's been, it's been
difficult. I I didn't, you know, I never

(41:55):
anticipated that. For sure.
What? What's an uncomfortable truth
about human nature that your career has shown you?
People can be evil people can be, I mean, just look at, you
know, I, I do a lot with, with drugs now.
I mean, look how, how we treat people who struggle with, with
substance use disorder, you know, addiction.
We use words like attic, we use words like junkie.

(42:17):
We use all these derogatory terms to describe these people.
I mean, if you had cancer, wouldI say, Hey, cancer, how you
doing? Right?
But but if you're struggling with with, with coke, I'd say,
hey, hey, you had it. You know, I mean, it's, it's
messed up and it's just, it's, we look at it as some moral
failing and then we just, we turn off while empathy and
compassion for these people. And quite frankly, it, it does

(42:40):
make me sad, but also pisses me off that we can't be human
beings and we can't have a little compassion for each
other. You know, I saw a news thing in
my hotel room a couple of days ago about these whales stuck
somewhere. And I thought, OK, that's,
that's horrible. And I'm not not anti whale, but
I can imagine right now there's,there's probably a, a campaign
somewhere and millions of dollars thrown into this to save

(43:01):
these. And I'm not saying we shouldn't
do that. I don't want you to get a bunch
of whale lovers saying you hate mail, right?
But I'm going to tell you that 300 people a day are dying from
drugs. And what do people say?
That's their bed. They chose to live that life.
I mean, it's like we lose all compassion for people.

(43:22):
And that was that's the answer to your question.
And and that that would be my answer too, like you said, evil
and my answer would be darker than it seems.
And it's quite the same thing. Well, when I was a kid, I was
like 15 years old. We went to a park.
I said this store a couple timesthere, but my cousin was 13

(43:43):
years old and she got kidnapped that day and we we never found
her again. Here we are 20 years later and
my mom right then and there. Like my mom, I could go wherever
I want whenever I want, No show times, but then that she
realized that damn it, this is life is a dark.
You see those shows on TV all killer so close.
Well, man, it can happen to anybody.

(44:05):
And we never found my cousin again.
And I was realized that right there at 56.
I was like, man, just just don'tjust happen to others there.
This could happen to to you. How dark life is there and that
can't be more real than that that that a lot of people are
way more evil than and then we think there's a great people out
there. But when you really see that in

(44:25):
size like you did, you start realizing that while people can
go really darker, what what's the difficult truth that you had
to face about the nature of yourwork that people still don't
understand? Some of the same, I mean, some
of the fact that it takes time to put, you know, a good
investigation in place. You know, it, it it you got to

(44:47):
collaborate information. You know, if you tell me that XY
and Z, well, OK, it's not that Idon't trust you, but I mean, I
got to be able to prove that right.
So I need to how am I going to collaborate?
That information is there, is there, is there.
This is what kind of data, what kind of information?
You know there are other witnesses.
It takes time and you know it. It really I hate to give you the
same answer. But it was all good.

(45:07):
Similar, yeah. And just a little question on
the side, did wiretapping cost alot back then?
Because when Gary told me that was like almost $5000 a month, I
was like, what? When we we think as civilians,
we think that like a decree, a three-way call it, it costs like
nothing, but actually it's fucking a lot of money.

(45:30):
Gary had a Third Point, three wire apps on one guy.
So I was like 15 a thousand a month.
So his boss was like, you betterget a win out of this.
So it was it still that expensive?
And why do you think it's that expensive?
Because for civilians, it shocksus there.
Yeah, it is very expensive and it's not just the money, it's
the resources. So, I mean, I retired in 2022

(45:52):
and you know, my last few years we did a lot of wiretaps there.
And, and it's it's expensive fora number of reasons.
One is the phone companies know that they can they can charge
U.S. government a little. Bit that's it.
But they should help. They should be the, the, the,
the, you know, it's like you're the big corporation.
You should be stepping up to be like, OK, you guys have enough

(46:14):
crimes that we're going to let the privacy be broken for that
person, that criminal, and then open it up.
But they're not doing it. They're like, oh, you want it?
Pay us. Oh, absolutely.
And, you know, fair value to them that they think they
deserve, you know, that's, that's the reality of it.
But these are, you know, these are court orders and, and to, to
have a, you know, a title 3 investigation on wiretap, that's

(46:35):
that's significant. That's not something you do on
every target. I mean, that's, there's a lot
of, there's a lot of work involved.
So it's not just the financial cost.
I mean, we're talking about a heavy, heavy, heavy resource
strain. In fact, the most of our wires,
we would have to bring in other investigators.
So we would deputize, you know, let's say we were doing a

(46:55):
wiretap with the, I don't know, Detroit Police Department.
Well, I mean, when we would probably bring in a number of
their investigators and special and, and, and deputize them or,
or make them, you know, give them authority to work in this
investigation during this, you know, during the wiretap,
because because you're not just listening to the phone, you're,

(47:16):
you're, you're doing surveillance.
You're, you're monitoring cameras.
You're, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're following
up on leads. Why is this person talking to
this person? You know, so you're doing,
you're doing intelligence work there.
Maybe the person talks about buying dope or selling dope or
doing something. So now you have to, you have to
cover that, right? You have to do surveillance, you
know, and surveillance might notjust be cars.

(47:38):
It might be, it might be airplanes, might be helicopters.
I mean, there's so many moving pieces involved.
So in all these pieces cost money and and time.
Yeah. For sure, huge resource crunch.
Brian, you're the founder of Only 2MG, which focuses on
raising awareness about the opioids and fentanyl.
What was the turning point that made you say like, OK, let's,

(48:01):
let's launch this initiative? And was there a moment that you
made that personal for you to really build this?
Yeah. So when I, when I retired, I,
you know, I started my own training and consulting
business, which I still do. And then I started working for
a, a regional information sharing system in the Midwest.
There's six of them in the country and they were, they

(48:23):
hired me as a law enforcement coordinator to, to develop
curriculum and teach for law enforcement in the 9 state
region that they control. And then, and then that expanded
that role. And one of the things they
really wanted from me was, was drug training, right?
And, and, and drug related training because of my
experience with EA. So I had developed an opioid

(48:47):
presentation. In fact, it was only two hours
at the time and it went over really, really well.
And then it just took off it really.
Filled two hours. Most people would would think
like a 40 minute PowerPoint would be good enough Oh yeah two
hours let's go. I got a lot of like.
Oh yeah, and then it went to 2 1/2.
Now it's a four hour presentation.
In fact, I know I've done it. I've done an 8 hour presentation

(49:10):
a few times, 8 hours on just fentanyl.
Is is is is is hard from a from instructor standpoint, but
because you want to, I don't want people to be bored.
I want people to sleep. I don't want people to leave
thinking this is crap. I want people to leave think
this is quality training. So, yeah, so I, I went to a four
hour program and I just started doing it more and more and more.
And I and I knew that my background with the DEA and my

(49:33):
work with the DEA would put people, put butts in the seat,
right, And get people interestedin hearing my.
Listen to you because you just need that.
You just need them to put that foot through the door and listen
because when they do it, that's where you got them there.
So having a background is very important over there. 100
percent, 100%. And then and then I wanted I'm,

(49:54):
I, you know, I have a training business.
I don't want that to have a stale or a, I don't want people
to look at what I do as, as I'm going to avoid them.
They're, they're boring. They're, you know, death by
PowerPoint or, or whatever. I want them, I want them to tell
their friends and their colleagues that, hey, this was
good training, you know, you gotto go to it.
So, so I take pride in that. You know, I, I, for instance,

(50:16):
with the fentanyl stuff, you know, I've done it over 100
Times Now. I just, I just said my 100th
presentation probably about a month ago in the state of Maine
and I changed that presentation a lot.
I mean the the the the outline is pretty similar.
But yeah, yeah. But it's the way you say it.
Yes. And I, I take, I mean, I look at
bulletins, law enforcement intelligence reports, I talked

(50:39):
to cops. My network is incredible.
I'm so proud of that. So I mean, I'm hearing about
pricing terminology, you know, trends.
I mean I am constantly updating updating your personal
knowledge. Because criminals would all
change their methods and everything.
So you guys need to update everysecond as fast as the Internet

(51:00):
because it never stops. Yeah, they're very adaptive.
So you know, and the cartels, everything.
So, you know, I talked to the press.
I've done a lot of national media.
I have a big one Monday. I can't can't disclose it yet,
but there's a big one Monday hopefully.
That's awesome. Outright but, but anyway, but
the point is I just, I just kepton pushing this stuff more and

(51:22):
more and, and it just became really popular.
And I knew this was a great way to, to share my training, not my
training, but my experience. And I felt some, I don't know,
it just felt good. Gratification like.
Yeah, you know, and I thought, you know, let's let's do
something bigger. And I so I started a nonprofit

(51:43):
and I'm the only nonprofit in this space who hasn't lost a
family member from opioids. And I don't, I don't fault
people for. For yeah, you're not saying I
got the best family. 100% not. Exactly.
But your awareness to tell everybody around you was
flawless because nobody went in it or or or failed in it.

(52:05):
Well, but but my my thing was was a lot of folks who lost
children to it. They they cope with their their
loss through. Fighting for it.
Nations. And I think that's beautiful.
Because if you need that to really trigger you to go do a
change, whatever there. But so, but I, I wanted to be
something different. I wanted to be a voice of

(52:28):
change. I I.
Wanted to do something before somebody in in your life died
from. 100% because one of the things that I recognized was
that most people don't care about these things unless it
impacts them. Exactly.
And I wanted to show that I could be an agent of change,
positive change before the impact.
And, and so that's why I did it.And, and, and again, I'm not,

(52:48):
I'm happy for all these other organizations.
I, I, I, I think it's important what they're doing.
And I think it's wonderful that that they're that they're,
they're finding a way to, to help people, you know, but I'm,
I'm trying. I got so frustrated when I, when
I, the audiences are only peoplewho work around this stuff or
lost to family or friend, you know, and I'm like, can can I

(53:12):
encourage people to take an interest in this before that?
Before, yeah. And be a force multiplier and
have them take these conversations into their homes
and into their communities and maybe have some actually young
people, maybe have someone say, yeah, this is dangerous.
This is this is, you know, I heard the message that Brian,
you know, so anyway, that's, that's the long answer.

(53:34):
On that's so beautiful and, and and and so incredible that that
you decided to push it pretty much.
I realized that when I, I checked the board of your two
only two MG that is mostly all retired DEA special agent.
How does this unique structure tackle fentanyl education

(53:56):
compared to the traditional nonprofit and public awareness
campaigns? Because when I I saw that I'm
like, OK, he he's taking the time to really build the team
that are like that went through it, saw it and what, what was
that? Why was it so important to do it
that way and what do you feel isthe difference compared to
others? I think it was important because

(54:17):
we have, you know, collectively have well over 100 years of
experience in dealing with not just fentanyl, but, but you
know, drugs and, or you know, and, and we've expanded it.
You know, we're looking at emerging public health threats
and how we can help people in other ways.
I just thought it was unique. I thought it was a way to again,
not just myself. Now I have three other guys, you

(54:39):
know, the board's four of us right now with different
perspectives and a lot of experience and that can shape
the curriculum, that can shape our message.
You know, I'm sure we're going to expand and we'll then people
that don't have that, that background.
Solid foundation at the start isthe best cause Alisa like you're

(55:00):
teaching the next ones that you're gonna come in to help you
like all the experiences alreadythere of four different aspects
for example. So I think it it really informs
people like this guy went through it like.
And to do 100 presentations, I mean, we, I have 3
presentations. I do, I do a four hour very
comprehensive presentation called the Illicit Fentanyl

(55:22):
crisis. I do a one hour lunch and learn,
I had a lot of executives tell me that they don't have 4 hours,
you know, give them, give them the 50,000 foot view really
quick. So we developed a lunch and
learn where we literally have lunch and, and we just talk
about fentanyl and I give them ahigher view.
And then I have a one hour presentation I do for young
people. I call it shattering dreams our

(55:44):
surface level but at the same. Time we really going in depth
and explaining it but just shorten it.
Absolutely shorter and no stats.I'm, I'm talking to young
people, right? Just about all present
presenters know. It's about knowing your
audience. And, and I don't want people to,
I don't want kids to know who gives, you know, they don't
know. What if I tell them that, that
40% of cocaine now contains fentanyl?
They're like, they're yawning, right?

(56:05):
They, they, they don't get the significance of that.
They don't care. So I need to tell them, you
know, about fentanyl and about other the dangers of other drugs
And, and the goal there is to give them knowledge, you know,
is, is, is knowledge is power and into, into push them into
not just giving them the knowledge, but make good
decisions with that knowledge. Right.
When they're faced with, with these really hard decisions in

(56:26):
life, and not just drugs, but just hard decisions in general,
is, you know, taking a step backand saying, alright, what's this
going to do? You know, what kind of impact is
this going to have on my life? And hopefully making the right
decision based on understanding the impact that that decision is
going to have. You know what I mean?
And it's often and it's often trauma.

(56:47):
That brings us into a, into drugs cause I didn't realize
when I started cocaine that I was trying to get away from
something. And it's after, after I got
sober there and I retrospect looking at why every day I just
wanted to redo it. Obviously the addiction, but I
was like analyzing myself and I was like, Oh my God, like I
gotta deal with this trauma thatI have because that what kept

(57:11):
bringing me to it. So even if I after I became
sober and I wasn't going to touch it again, I just wanted to
buying a new high and something else that would just gonna make
me forget. So I had to stop 2 seconds.
I was like, man, I ain't going to nothing else besides weed
there. So I literally look at
retrospect and seeing that it was all trauma.
So that's where I started to go speak, speak with psychologies

(57:31):
and stuff. But because you need to get a
get your your trauma settled or else a fucking addiction or or
other stuff to get away will always, you'll always want that
to to get away from your pain, but you got to fix your fucking
pain before anything else. Amen.
You know, and and and. Anytime anyone asked me, how do

(57:51):
we, how do we win the war on dryhate that phrase war on drugs
now and what do we do? Well, we got to reduce demand,
period. How do we reduce demand?
You talk about the things you just said right there.
We know that a lot of folks turned to drugs and alcohol
because of trauma abuse. You just shit that they've gone
through in life and they're trying to deal and they turn to

(58:12):
this as a coping. They turn to these, these, these
harmful things as coping mechanism.
And that's the, that's the discussions that we're really
not having. We're really not having.
Yeah, we, we, we, we bandage these things.
We don't really fund them, you know, go back to the whale thing
earlier. I mean, millions of dollars to
save these whales. Great thing.
But how about millions of dollars into treatment and
recovery programs that actually help people, right.

(58:35):
And, and that's, that's the frustration as well.
I get so pissed off thinking about the, the lack of, of, of
compassion and resources that weactually 0.
You know, what do you do when you're, when, when people are,
you know, medicated assistant treatment, people understand,
you know, you're doing two things.
One is you're trying to wean them off the drug and #2 is
you're trying to figure out why do they use the drug?
And like you said, is there, is there something in the, in their

(58:55):
past? Is there something trying to
deal with unless you tackle that, then all you're going to
do is wean them off and they're going to go right back to it or,
or some other type of harmful substance.
And absolutely, that's the disconnect.
And, and, and it's so clear thatthat's the solution.
But oh, it's so aggravating thatwe just don't, that we just

(59:16):
don't actually have these discussions and, and, and, and,
and do it, I realized by talkingto a lot of people.
That a lot of people, when they have a certain trauma, like
getting abused or like really something rough, well, we all
feel at that moment, if we don'ttalk about it, that we're

(59:36):
probably the only one in the world living this shit.
So we don't want to feel weak talking about it.
We don't wanna go talk to an expert about it cause he's maybe
gonna judge us or we don't really have a problem that bad.
So the end of everything, we cope by ourselves and there's
some that take all that put intoa passion and drive forward.

(59:57):
But most people, it's not that they're going to just slow down
their flame to get somewhere in life and try to fix it by
another drug or something even as bad there.
I was going to say, can you giveus an example of real life?
Impact that you've seen your program from your programs and
training that we. I can't tell you the number of

(01:00:21):
children, young people. Who've come up to me and this
really profound things they've said the hugs, the, you know,
they, they tell me about the, you know, just some really
personal stories about, you know, the, the.
Environments that they're. In that their parents, their
family members and. It's heartbreaking sometimes it

(01:00:44):
really is. We feel it in your voice right
now, obviously. This is powerful.
It really shows how genuine. You are and.
We appreciate that for sure. Wow.
I a lot of people are not genuine like they are just going
to say the words, but we feel inyour in your voice.
So go ahead. I appreciate that I.
And you know, Narcan and naloxone or any type of opioid

(01:01:07):
overdose reverse medications, I had an officer in from Wyoming
who took a box of Narcan becauseI always bring, you know, I try
to bring them if I'm traveling. It's hard to, to bring a lot,
but I always trying to bring four or five boxes in the lock
zone and talk about the importance of saving people who
are, who are overdosing. And I had an officer pick up

(01:01:28):
that box and I also show him howto use it.
I mean, you can, you can use naloxone faster and you can put
on a Band-Aid. I mean, it's just right.
And within a week, she saved someone who was, who overdosed
on from him. And I, I just, I love those
stories, you know, and of coursethey really called me and told
me what happened. And, and, and obviously, you
know, the first thing I talked about with the kids and the

(01:01:50):
young people and all the personal stories, you know,
those, that's, that's what drives me 100% drives me.
I I do a lot. Of what I do out of pocket.
I'm very fortunate to do that. I don't say that to brag.
I really don't ask if there was someone right now who is a
millionaire, say we're going to give you a bunch of money to do
this, then absolutely. Because I can't continue to do
this forever. That's why I started.

(01:02:11):
That's another reason why I started a nonprofit, so I could
so I could, you know, get some grants and fundraise.
But oh, my goodness, if you toldme how hard it was beforehand, I
would have been like, no, yeah, it's harder than I thought.
It's not the same. But same thing for the.
Books like at me, it's a nonprofit, but I never would
have thought that it would destroy my car like that.

(01:02:31):
I I would have never thought that like a car is not made to
have 1400 books in it. I'm telling you, and I have a
little hatchback and feeling my car when you're going down to
the city and the car is roughed up is like, man, you're asking
me a lot there, but I'm not realizing the whole time.
But after you're like, oh shit, man, I put that card through

(01:02:52):
hell and you know, and and and and yeah, it sucks.
From because you, you know, it'syour car, right?
Your money, but you also, you get there's some pride, right?
Yeah. And you know, I traveled. 50.
Four times last year I had I, I gave my main presentation just
my main presentation doesn't count all the student
presentations like that. And you know, I'm in 22 states
now and, and I can't do that every year.

(01:03:15):
Not that I don't want to, I lovedoing that.
I just, I just can't afford to, right?
And and I'm hoping, I'm hoping to this thing explodes and, and
that we're able to make more impact.
But yeah, it's, it's tough. You you know the struggles.
What do you think is the biggestgap?
Right now in America in responding to this fentanyl

(01:03:35):
crisis, like how can we fill this gap?
Well, I one is we got. To reduce the demand that's by
far. I mean, you know, just in the
United States alone and, and, and you know, take out Canada
and everything else. I mean, we, we make up little
over 4% of the world's population, yet we consume the
majority of drugs. We got to figure that out.
And how do we know, which is what we talked about.

(01:03:55):
We got to start talking about mental abuse, sexual abuse,
physical abuse, trauma, I mean, all these things that we know
and we know that people use drugs and alcohol because
they're bored or they're peer pressure and there's other
reasons. We get it.
But the, the root of it is usually something that's
happened in the Yeah, way deeper.
Yeah, way deeper. And we gotta, we gotta.

(01:04:16):
Tackle that. Yeah.
And, and, and that'll help reduce the demand.
And then to me, it's, it's a holistic approach.
I mean, I'm obviously my background's law enforcement.
I think that's an important partof this, of this, but we're
never going to rest our way out of it.
You know, I had some guys that used to get mad at that
statement and at 1st and for a while I was, but that's real.
That's it. We're not.

(01:04:37):
Going to start Shogo. Coating nothing.
Yeah, you know, give us, give usmore people and give us.
More handcuffs and make more jails.
And we will. No, we won't.
We absolutely will. We, we have to look at this from
different angles. We have to it's absurd to think
that we can just and and and andthat though that's a whole
different conversations like when they say let's take out.
Eliminate all the guns. The bad people will still find

(01:05:00):
guns people. It's like they don't need to ask
nobody. So by taking away the guns is it
doesn't fix the problem initially.
So 100% it's the same with the drugs you can take.
Them all out though. Figure another way and invent
new drugs. I'll never stop.
So you need awareness for assured you know someone doesn't
walk. Up to the school and say, oh,
there's a sign here, there's no guns allowed.

(01:05:21):
I guess I'm not gonna kill 100 hundred my classmates today.
It's absurd to think that. That's even.
Going to, you know it's going tomake any difference at all.
It's just what's that sign and when you look at.
Mass murderers like that well they aim not a non gun zones so
the hospitals schools at concerts, that's where it

(01:05:41):
happens because it's a non gun zone.
That's why burglars, I mean they, they.
Was the FBI, somebody did some research years ago on that?
I mean, they're looking for houses that don't have the ADT
sign or, or alarm or whatever. They're looking for no cameras
or looking for people that don'thave like, I mean, like this is
common sense. Like we're not talking about
landing people on the moon here.We're talking about some common.

(01:06:04):
Sense stuff here. That that sometimes we lose.
But yeah, yeah, your Eagle 6 training.
Provides speaking and training and consulting service for
businesses and law enforcement entities worldwide.
What's the fuel you wanted to that you wanted to share this
knowledge this much because you're already doing a lot, but
you're like, OK, let's be the founder of this and keep going

(01:06:26):
with knowledge. I don't like to sleep
apparently. So that that was actually the
first Eagle 6 training was my first thought.
And that's why I mean, I look EAearly.
I mean, I didn't leave retirement.
I was, I was right there. I had a really nice retirement,
but I could have stayed at DEA until it's 57.
That's when our mandatory retirement is and, and, and you

(01:06:48):
know, great office, I mean, great relationships, great
money. I mean, I just, I saw something
bigger and I just really wanted to do something different.
And that my path was training and teaching, consulting and,
and it's interesting. I love leadership.
You know, I've I've I've slippedsome leadership things into this
conversation where it's always people always laugh like 2 of my

(01:07:10):
passions are are leadership and and fentanyl, but it but he.
Really dive into it. It's.
It's crazy as this sounds, I'm trying to do the same thing.
I'm trying to empower people with, with information and make
them better. And that's the hope there is,
is, you know, my, my leadership training is very basic.
I, you know, I'm not trying to teach anybody any crazy theories

(01:07:33):
or, or still sleeping from a book.
It's, it's all about the impact that you make when you
voluntarily become a supervisor in your organization.
So yeah, I'm fortunate enough to, in fact, that's, that's what
pays for most of my only two MG stuff.
It pretty much washes it out. That's what that's what enabled
me to be able to travel so much last year and by by you saying

(01:07:55):
that it made. Me rethink of me before I got on
on cocaine and honestly that I would have never thought about
that before. Let's say somebody would have
told me like 3 months before I, I did it for the first time.
Like like, like really the the serious talk about the impact of
this, like opioids are fentanyl and how maybe 2 grains of salt

(01:08:18):
or something could be in this cocaine and you don't know.
Well, honestly, I I don't think I would have have tried it
there. I tried it because like I was
already sniffing and then we transferred to freebase.
So it's even fucking worse there.
But nobody told me that that like freebase, like most of the
time you won't have the the option of like, oh, let's not

(01:08:40):
get hired today. No, no, you're just hooked by a
ghost train. I called it a ghost train in one
of my songs because it it's something that's pulling you in
a direction. You got no call.
You can't even grab onto it. It's just calling you.
So I think that I would have heard like one of your speeches
and something, man, I think I would have not done it.
And that's how much an impact ofjust putting people aware of

(01:09:02):
this shit could really change the decision to like I would
maybe just continue sniffing andthen maybe slow down after not
not transfer to something that would drive that next year and a
half of my life without me having no call.
It was a horrible. So I think spreading knowledge
like that, I would have changed.That's the goal.

(01:09:22):
I'm member one. Of the first times I did a a
college presentations, I was back on that campus.
I don't know, a month or two later for at a different event
and I had a kid come to me. I didn't recognize him and he
came up to me and and he said, hey, I heard your, your and I
was like, OK, thanks. You know how to go.
And he goes, you know, I was using a lot of pills and you

(01:09:44):
know, I've, I've, I've struggled, but I've found some
help. And I mean, just, you know, I
don't want to give up too many of the respect him, but I don't
know, it made him think right? And, and, and, and, and I think
that's a beautiful thing. I think, I mean, who knows what,
what that, what that kids going to, to, to do one day.
Maybe he's right. Maybe he's going to flourish.
Into something beautiful, absolutely.

(01:10:06):
And you can't flourish if you'regoing through trauma and
addiction like that because thatwill take over your life.
Honestly, like I'm somebody thatnobody forces me to do shit.
I can't even open my bail because I feel somebody's
forcing me shit. So I'm telling you, I'm like,
you got to prepare me everythingin advance or else I can do
shit. So and then when I look back,

(01:10:27):
because that's me my whole life and right then and there I had
no calls or this thing was just driving me in the way.
And I was like, I could have lied, manipulated and hurt
anybody because I wanted only one thing in particular.
And I'm strong minded. So he imagine somebody that's
just like a naive a bit while you're really fucked, like,
yeah, so and that's how much powerful this shit is that you

(01:10:49):
got no call. And I don't think people
appreciate that enough. They, they don't understand what
happens in the brain. And that's one of the things I
talk about almost early on. I talk when I, when I do do my
presentations, I talk about, youknow, dopamine, you know, that
feeling that if you're feeling and then eventually, you know,
we're chasing that feeling. So then we build a tolerance,
right? And that means now it's going to
take more of the chemical because your brain is trying to

(01:11:11):
protect you. Their brains like, whoa, whoa,
whoa, time out here. I don't be putting cocaine or
methamphetamine or or whatever in here.
So I'm going to try to protect you.
But but you like the feeling, right?
So you, you know, and so you keep on using the drug and
eventually you're using a lot ofthe drug to try to chase the
feeling you got the first or second time.
And you may not even get there. That would never no right.
And then? You're starting to make.

(01:11:32):
Changes and this is really impactful especially when you're
younger because your brain stilldeveloping but your brain is
starting to say OK if you want to put genes on the morning
guess what you're going to need this drug if you want to eat in
the morning that's what you're gonna need this drug.
So it I don't think people are in fentanyl.
Oh my goodness, fentanyl makes the other drugs look like like
like like. I don't know what something.

(01:11:54):
Light like a circus. Right.
I mean. And and and it's.
So incredibly powerful, and it just takes over.
And that's why so many people onlegal opioids, you know, turn to
the illegal market because it's so addictive.
And that's why I have no problemwith legal opioids, even
fentanyl under the right circumstances at elicit
technology gonna be clear here, you know, but if you've been in

(01:12:16):
severe pain, been hospitalized, but that's why it need you need
that, that constant medical attention.
Um, you know, you, it's, Oh my goodness you by my hearing, I
watched. A lot of the biographies of WWE
superstars in the past months and like, I listened to at least
nine of them and five or six of them, well, were addicted to

(01:12:40):
painkillers, my friend. Because you don't you, you don't
want to leave this job that you're building so up to be out
six months. So they're going to give you a
pill to at least survive that night, but then you're going to
continue, continue. There's one in particular that
was a gold medalist at Kurt Angle.
And before he arrived and he, hesaid at the end there 8 became

(01:13:02):
16 that became 32 that became end of 50 every day 50
somethings. I was like, what the fuck?
That could have killed a horse. But since he billed this
tolerance for years and years, he was still surviving.
And when the doctor learned how much it was taking because they
they didn't prescribe that he was finding it because you're a
millionaire, you can find anything.
They were like, man, you're killing yourself.

(01:13:23):
What a superstar. And they were all doing this
because of pain, but you, you, you build a tolerance and then
this could kill you at the end. It was so shocking that most of
them went through this. I was like, wow, you're right.
The first time I. Ever dealt with tolerance?
I remember we had a, we were working a pill mills pain
management clinic and we were working with our folks out of

(01:13:45):
Houston and we had this talk that was prescribing just an
incredible amount of opioids. And anyway, we, we, there was a
kid that left this pain pain clinic and he went and filled a
script at a, you know, a local pharmacy.
And right after he left, we we had him car stopped and I was
the first person to the car and,and he had he had just filled a
script with hydrocodone and he had already consumed about 12

(01:14:08):
pills 12 and he wasn't like. Oh shit, the cops are.
Here, let me, let me swallow him.
This was, this was. Yeah, he did in the parking lot.
As soon as yeah. And and I didn't believe him.
I'm. Like.
Nah, where's the rookie? We're doing a cavity search
here. I like, I like where are those
12 pills at Right. And and that was that was
really, it blew my mind. Away.

(01:14:29):
It just did. I was like.
This guy just consumed 12 pills and then absolutely.
And, and, and since then, you know, I started to pay attention
to more of that and how it was impacting the brain.
And I've met countless people who tell me the same story of
how they just, they build this tolerance to the point where
they're using just unreal amounts of, of, of various
drugs. And he mentioned Kurt Angle, we

(01:14:52):
have a fentanyl summit coming upin, in May, May 8th and 9th in
Missouri. Try to reach out to him to see
if he'd come speak. Never heard anything so but but.
History is really. Incredible and I I really wish
that he he would answer that call because his story and and
him re talking about it like in the documentary I checked man,

(01:15:13):
it touched my heart to the eyes the greed.
You see somebody that achieved so much in life before WWE
getting that gold medal with a broken fucking neck, like he
kept saying and and man that this guy was so strong and every
wrestler that that saw him, Wow,what a performance and
everything like he's flawless and gold like an Angel, but
actually he's going through demons to the eyes.

(01:15:35):
Agree, but nobody's knowing it because when it especially as
man, I find that you don't want to be weak beside other men.
So you try to create this persona like a fake man mask of
of what's really going on with you to.
But I think like I had a Brett dollar on and he was abused as a
child by his neighbor, a anotherman and he even became a cop,

(01:16:00):
the starting point. And I was like, I hope you're
arrested. The guy.
He's like, no, I did it. I I had even talked about it
yet. So when you talk about it for
the first time, he was 50 something when he got abused
when he was 9. And he didn't realize that the
his whole life he was dragging this, this trauma the whole time
without understanding why he's crying sometimes at night.
Because you got to, you got to release this shit because like I

(01:16:23):
tell people it's like the, the Santa Claus bag, like you're
just putting stuff in that bag and it's a limited by a certain
point. You're going to feel like all
your shit, there's an anchor behind you, but and him after
talking about it, it he felt like a superhero because he's
saying the real shit. And a lot of people went up to
see him like wow, you're strong to say yes because we're not

(01:16:44):
weak to say it people, but that's how we feel before saying
it. But after you say it, you
realize that you're not the onlyone going through this and you
saying your story could help others there to young people.
And if there's any people listening to us talk right now,
if you're struggling with something, guess what?
Your life matters. Go find some help.
Absolutely don't. Don't go alone.

(01:17:07):
You know, don't, don't think youcan manage this on your own.
If you're struggling with something real, man, go, go find
some help because you are worth it.
I'm telling you you're, you're there's people out there.
I mean, we, we care about you. I don't, I don't know who you
are listening to me, but I'm telling you we, we care about
you and you know, get the help you need and and don't put these
poisons in your system because that's not going to can give you

(01:17:30):
a little bit. Of relief for a couple minutes.
It's not gonna absolutely and I.Said this in another podcast.
It's like when you're going through this shit, like
sometimes it feels like the fucking light out of the tunnel
is not there. You're like such a darkness.
You're like, Oh my God, there's nowhere to go.
But tell you people keep fuckinggoing forward.
And but because at certain pointit could last a day, a week, a

(01:17:51):
years, but a certain point, if you keep going forward, the
light will fucking appear. Hope and crumbs will appear.
But when you're in that moment, it's all darkness that you're
just so deep down that hole, butthere's always light.
It's just you're so far. And we just gotta keep moving
forward and try at least build yourself and get out of there
and and for everyone else. Put your hands in that tunnel

(01:18:13):
and start reaching for those andhelp those people absolutely
have these conversations, you know, get people, get involved
in people's lives, you know, especially your loved ones, your
close ones. What do you think about the this
phrase? Oh.
Well, I can't help him. He doesn't want to help himself.
I hear, you know, I hear. I hear parents, Gosh, can you
tell my parents? I've heard they, why are they

(01:18:33):
doing that? They're doing this.
They're they're killing you, killing this family, they're
killing themselves. And, and, and so I got, you
know, I got to talk to him about, hey, you know, this is,
this is powerful. What's happening in the brain
that they don't choose to destroy himself.
That's it. They're not.
They're not looking to lose. Relationship not looking to be
kicked out of the house and theydon't want to steal stuff and
take it to the pawn shop. They don't want to lose their

(01:18:55):
their their careers. They don't want to be homeless.
I mean, like they don't want these things.
The drug is so incredibly impactful.
And, and that's, and that's hardto understand too, because, you
know, there's people out there that can use drugs on a, on a
Sunday night and Monday morning,they're off to, to work.
And you never know in a million years.
Then there's people who, you know, take a, take a counterfeit

(01:19:15):
pill with fentanyl and, and, andif they don't die, then, you
know, but it might just, their life just starts to spiral,
right? It just starts to go out of
control. And so it impacts us all a
little differently. It's the same thing with
gambling or, or any other type of addictions.
It's it's, it's just we all respond differently.
Brains adapt differently and andwe shouldn't wait.
We shouldn't. Wait for somebody to be like,

(01:19:35):
OK, I'm ready to get off drugs. Mom, can you help me?
I'm telling you, that call wouldhave never happened.
I would have never called. Nobody like anybody that tried
to help me. I was all nice until he crossed
that fucking door. Then I blocked him.
Why? Because you're trying to fucking
change me. Who the fuck are you when all
these people were great people? I'm telling you, I blocked 80 to
120 different people, great people that came to my place.

(01:19:56):
And when they saw the amount I was doing during Sam, you're
killing yourself. I don't want to tell you how to
live, but you got to be careful.All these people that were just
nice giving me those little I blocked them you sometimes
they're what you need. Like I needed is somebody and do
not give me a choice. Not like, oh, you want to stop?
No, no. The guy came into my place and
moved me. He came with a trailer, packed

(01:20:17):
my shit and I was like, I ain't going nowhere.
But I wasn't going to fight against somebody that's helping
me but wasn't going to help him either.
And he packed my shit and literally did not give me an
option if I'm going or not. I was going and that changed my
life. If it would it be for him, I'd
be dead people. So waiting for that praise, OK,
I'm ready now. Us sometimes it's not worth it
because you're never going to get to that moment of that drug

(01:20:40):
person be like, OK, I want change now because the demons
that we face there or that's notan option that is not in our
book. So a lot of times you got to
derail that train, not wait for that train to be like, oh, let's
go to another station. And and if you're one of those.
People, that is, that's going inand saying you don't have a
choice, you're coming with me. Understand that They might

(01:21:00):
resist you. They might figure that what
you've given them, they might, they might fail at, but you know
what? Help them fail forward.
Be there when they, when they, when they, when they relapse,
when they step back and say, OK,happened.
But we're going to go through this again because we're going
to keep on going this until you get better, until you know,
until we beat this, you know? So just just be an advocate, be

(01:21:20):
on this side. Passion, be it.
Be a fucking human being. Right, absolutely.
And I have a. Critical thinking at a
situation. So I'm gonna give you like a
couple of examples and you tell me what you think.
What's 1 of the greatest lessonsthat you learned in your life
and career that you still applied today?
Oh, the relationship. Building is.

(01:21:41):
Is huge and now I'm trying to really do a better job of
maintaining those relationships even when the other person
doesn't maintain that's. Fine, it's, you know, but.
But yeah, I think that's a big thing, you know, just if you
build authentic relationships, you know, and, and they know
that you're not calling them because you want something or
you need, but you just you, you care about seeing them go

(01:22:03):
forward and, and hopefully they can help you move forward,
right. And what's your?
Favorite personal achievement, either in your career or your
life, that you're most proud of?I love that I've committed my
life to public. Service, you know a police
officer, a DEA special agent andnow what I'm doing with with

(01:22:24):
only two MG you know I I love. The fact that.
They can help people in in various ways and hopefully make
some type of positive impact in this world.
Man, you are for sure doing. An impact.
Name two things that people should try at least once in
their life. Not fentanyl like not.

(01:22:46):
Fentanyl, right? Yeah.
Don't worry about well. I wanna say don't, don't, don't
be scared of failing. So try whatever that, whatever
that dream is, whatever that hope is, you know, whatever,
whatever that that goal of yoursis, you know, take a step, you

(01:23:07):
know, try. You're the most.
Successful people in this world are people who just keep on
taking steps forward. If you're afraid of the pain and
the unknown, the hurt of the. Unknown.
You're never gonna experience greatness.
I mean, you look at all the I mean, there's so many examples.
Look, Michael Jordan, I forget the exact quote.

(01:23:28):
You know, he talks about how he missed thousands of shots.
You know, many game-winning lastminute chances.
You know, he missed, but how many did he make, right?
How many, how many rings does hewear?
How much success he had because he kept on going forward.
He kept on pushing forward, right.
And so I don't know, there's a specific thing, but but whatever
specific to you just just man, just just keep on walking

(01:23:50):
forward and you're gonna, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna
get there. Now, what's an example of a
situation? Where thinking outside the box
helps you solve a problem that probably others couldn't.
Oh. There were times at work to put
this back. Into, you know, my DEA time, you
know, I talked about that undercover thing early, early

(01:24:12):
on. I remember a big break I got in
that case was, was we had a, a person that was approached by
some cartel members and they didn't kill this person, but but
they were afraid that they were going to be killed because they
were looking for our main targetwho wasn't hiding.

(01:24:35):
And, and they went to this person's house and it scared
this person to the core hunter. I mean just it had the had the
main person been there they would have all been dead.
Baby included. 100% there was aninfant in the house and then
when I got a call, I made a decision to change the way we

(01:24:56):
responded to this case. That resulted in me working an
undercover operation. And I know it sounds like I'm
talking kind of coded, but but Iit was just a quick decision.
I didn't know it was going to go.
In fact, it was funny. I actually called my boss for
after I got the phone. I was like, I just did this,
just am I going to get in trouble?

(01:25:17):
Is this going to be? OK.
And he was like. That's brilliant that keep keep
on going. Hopefully if you're lucky, it'll
work. And gosh, we got lucky.
It worked really well. Wow.
Can you share it? It's not where you're into it.
Intuition or gut feeling led youto make a decision that changed
everything. I'll tell you a funny one that
was actually. We were talking about this the

(01:25:37):
other day. Maybe it's too funny, but I
remember I was a police officer and we had a peeping Tom call.
Somebody, a lady called and says, I believe someone was
looking through my back mirror or my back window and, and they
ran off. And, you know, a lot of times
people understand when these calls get brought into dispatch.
And you know, depending on how, how crazy the shift is, how busy

(01:25:58):
we are, it might be, you know, 10-15 minutes, if if not an hour
later before we actually respond.
This, this, this particular night was really busy.
So it was a little bit later until I responded.
And of course, you know, I, I wanna take the, you know, I want
to, you know, I want to listen to her and, and and and and, you
know, reassure that we're here now and that, you know, and, and
I said I'll walk around your house just to make sure, you

(01:26:20):
know, and, and I'm walking around and unbeknownst to me, I
had no idea the guy was still hiding at the house.
He was hiding in bushes, Morgan.No idea.
And I thought I was just walkingaround just kind of like, just,
you know what I mean? Yeah.
Just to reassure the person you know.
And, and I hate to say that because it sounds.
Like I'm Yeah, because normally they run away, run away when

(01:26:40):
they. See the lights there so 100%
right and so I. Just said, I know you're here.
Come on out, I'm telling you to this day I do not know why I
said that I've never done that before now I did it a lot after
this. I just but I just literally said
I know you're here, come on out.I had no there and the thing.

(01:27:00):
In fact, I. Probably did it for her benefit.
Come thinking about it right? Just for her hearing.
This guy walks out of the bushes.
You know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, Oh my goodness, I'm
grabbing my gun. I'm like and I know it's.
A silly example. But it was like, is the
weirdest. It was one of my weirdest
experiences in uniform. That was.

(01:27:22):
That was pretty weird one, so this one's about.
Border security and. Fentanyl is an International
Crisis. Just in 2024 alone, the US
Customs and Border Protection seized over 19,600 lbs of venal
when only a 22 grains of salt can kill you, a major.

(01:27:43):
The majority of fentanyl smuggling occurs through the the
crossing of the borders, 80% of it since 2019 to 2024.
And now with the political changing changes around that,
securing the US Mexico border and the US Canada border, what
role do you think the international corporation plays
in tackling this fentanyl epidemic?

(01:28:05):
And are there any significant changes that you've seen of how
countries approach this drug issue?
Yeah, it's what it what it is Interesting.
Time to live in and to see what's happening.
The US Mexican border is, Oh my goodness, like said, I was down
there from 2009 to 2016. So I saw first hand how, how the

(01:28:27):
border, what the border is and how it operates.
The last four or five years at the border have been just
incredibly busy. I mean, the number of, I mean, I
remember we were down there two 300,000 apprehensions a year.
Was, was, was kind of the peak, You know, the last four years
we've seen 1.5 to 2 million people.
I mean, it's just substantially different.

(01:28:48):
Well, the last couple months, Ohmy goodness.
I mean, February was like 8000 and it's the first time under
that I'd ever seen in my career under 10,000 in March.
Just came out, I was looking at the numbers a little.
Bit yesterday haven't dove into them too deep, but there's like
7000. I'm like, what is going?
And so I started calling some ofmy friends down this last week.

(01:29:09):
I've been talking to my friends down there and they're like it's
nuts. It's crazy, like it's so quiet,
but that's a good thing. So the bad thing is that the
cartels, these transnational criminal organizations are
highly adaptive. Absolutely.
They're they're going to figure out ways because that's their
only way of life there. That's why.
They're doing it so they're justgonna figure out another way.

(01:29:30):
100% and the demand for drugs istoo.
Great in this country like they're so we're going to we're
going to still see drugs at the border.
I mean, it'd be silly to believethat that's going to dry it up.
Just even even. They're just going to become
more intelligent, the traps. In the car and stuff like that
and they're going to use different routes and we we.
See, we see drones, we see tunnels, we see the ocean, we
see Canada. I mean, see other, other, other
methods of getting drugs into the US, but they're just going

(01:29:52):
to be they're going to adapt. They've been adapting for years
and years and years. The good side, the good thing
though, on our on our end is because of these these fewer
apprehensions and migrant crossings, we now have the time
and focus to put on these organizations and and go after

(01:30:12):
the the drugs and other criminalactivity.
So it's interesting. And then, you know, and then
nationally, and I don't want to get too political here, but we,
you know, they talk about the terrorists and all these these
different things. And I know that Canada has
there's a whole different thing there as well.
But, but a lot of this has really forced the Mexican
government and Claudia Scheinbaum to come to the table

(01:30:33):
and, and have a serious discussion on, on what we see as
a national security threat that the drugs coming into the US,
right. And, and, and our cooperation
with Mexico over the last coupleof months has been, I mean
substantial. Even Canada for.
That matter and people don't realize that that that's the
positive impact a lot of this has.

(01:30:56):
And Trump with the terrorists? What?
He did is because nobody was realizing how fucking here is
this was so he he was like, bro,I'm going to put tariffs on your
ass until you fucking have a conversation with me about
what's going on, what's going inand out.
But yeah, Canada has been actinglike kids were like, oh, you
wanna put tariffs on on the stuff that coming through here.
We're gonna put tariffs on the syrup and shit.

(01:31:17):
Like I'm like, bro, we're going to get choked out if we do this
like fucking idiots. We should just sit out like
there's a reason he's doing thisis to protect his own country.
It's like, hello, but but the media here is just a
brainwashing people and believing that he's just a bad
person trying to shore Canada broke.
He's not trying to destroy Canada.
He's just trying to make US better like our our Prime
Minister should be doing just wanna make Canada better.

(01:31:39):
But they're just acting like babies.
Yeah. And the the problem is it's so
political. Even talking about it exactly.
You push people away and yeah, sad it it this, but yeah, you're
absolutely right. You know, obviously you know,
the the the national conversation is more about, you
know, you know, fairness and, and trade and things like that.
But what, what people are not seeing is there is a lot of

(01:32:02):
conversations happening about fentanyl and drug trafficking
and how we can put some leverageon, especially Mexico.
I'm not saying yeah, well, but but but mainly Mexico, Canada as
well. You know your.
Laws up there are a lot more progressive, you know, you have
a lot of fentanyl labs up there.You have a lot of, of organized

(01:32:23):
crime that, that Chinese organized crime is a huge
problem when it comes to fentanyl and other drugs and,
and, and smuggling and, and distribution and this these
economic tariffs and all these, these talks, you know, they can,
they can, they can. They can bring a bound.
Positive change they really can and and and you're right I mean
at the end of the day, you know you want your you want your

(01:32:45):
leader to to fight for you rightto fight exactly you want your
Prime Minister to to do to make your life more prosperous in
Canada. You know, just as you know, we
we would want our president to do for for us.
So exactly balance there, but but.
As far as my perspective. When it comes to drugs and
stuff, I mean, it's, it's fascinating to see what's
happening right now. I mean, you know, the last four

(01:33:07):
years in in in Mexico with the AMLO, the last president,
Horrible, horrible, horrible. So I'm excited to see how this
is going to play out and, and how we can step up the pressure
on the on the cartels and, and, and see a reduction in drugs.
We often hear about the role of law.

(01:33:29):
Enforcement. But what can the general public
do to help combat this fentanyl crisis?
And how can everybody, everyday citizens, be more active in
raising awareness and preventingoverdose, supporting the the
people they love or communities around them?
What can civilians do to maybe help?
Yeah. Take it.

(01:33:50):
Take. A take and.
Take a you know, be parents, youknow, know your role.
Right. I mean, there's not, we're not.
You can be. Friends with your kids, but you
also need to be parents too. You know, look, look at your
phones, look who they're talkingto, you know, you know, take
that active role. Care about your kids, you know,
get them the help they need. If they're struggling with

(01:34:10):
something that's going to help reduce demand.
Be knowledgeable about what's what the threats out are out
there. I mean, a lot of folks don't
know about fentanyl. They don't realize that that
fentanyl, you know, made its wayinto our, our, our drug supply,
the heroin, but then they took over the pills and the majority
of our counterfeit pills now have fentanyl in them.
They don't realize that, you know, that that's gone into our

(01:34:32):
cocaine. You know, 40% of our cocaine
supply now has fentanyl and theydon't realize it's gotten our
methamphetamine. 17% of our methamphetamine now has passed.
I'm sorry, 17% of our methamphetamine has fentanyl in
it. They don't realize that that
this thing has grown tentacles. You know, it's just, it's
everywhere and that it's 2 milligrams, right?
I can't say that enough. 2 milligrams will kill you.
And so if you're you're experimenting with love, your,

(01:34:55):
you're a recreational drug user,your casual drug user, you are
taking a risk every single time you put the substance in your
mouth. Every single time.
And yeah, yeah, you're literallyplaying Russian.
Roulette without a gun. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 100% so.
So make yourself aware. I don't.
Know go go to whatever website you know.

(01:35:15):
Law enforcement website DEA. Whatever, educate yourself and
then be a force multiplier. Have the conversation with your
children, with your family, you know, your church or Rotary
Club, I don't know. However, whatever kind of impact
you can have in your circle of influence, then do it like this.
This is important. Let's say you can educate that

(01:35:35):
that kid between 12 and 1516 years old, that that like a man,
just two grains of salt. You know, you'll never know son,
what's in it when it arrives. So would you want to roll the
dice? Probably not there When I was a
kid, I went to high school and since I was skinny, people were
bullying me and I got a few fights to protect myself.
And my mom was just so scared I would kill a kid.

(01:35:55):
Not not because I'm strong or anything, because she saw some
stuff and news that you hit something in the face and
example, he falls and breaks hishead on cement and dies and then
you have a involuntary, involuntary manslaughter on the
person and that drags with you forever.
When my mom told me that I was like, oh shit.
The last thing I would want to do is really, I want to protect

(01:36:17):
myself, but not maybe not kill somebody.
So right after that I went to wrestling.
So anybody that tried to hit me,I would bring him down and choke
him out and put him to sleep. Nobody would get hurt.
It was always smooth, like I never got hay in the face after
that telling you it was all wrestling.
And it made me conscious of the impact of just hitting somebody
in the face that you could maybekill him because he falls badly.

(01:36:40):
Well, giving this knowledge to kids of like what drugs they're
going to get asked to do and stuff like that, man, I think it
just makes that conscious of that kid.
I don't know, do I want to play Russian roulette?
I'm only 15. I got my whole life ahead of me.
And I think the parents, all theparents should take the time to
listen to PowerPoints and get educated about this.

(01:37:03):
So they made instead of telling that their their son don't do
drugs is bad for you, explain the details because that just
makes the kid run away and do it.
So I'm so glad you said that. That's that's.
One thing we did and, and at least in the United States, you
know, with like Nancy Reagan, the whole just say no campaign
and, and people want to know why, right.

(01:37:24):
So when I talk to young people, I give them the why and, and
what people, you know, even parents don't like.
When did most people try drugs or alcohol for the first time in
their lives? Adolescence.
Yeah, between 14 and. 21 you're trying something.
Don't care if it's your your dad, your great.
Grandpa, your, your great, great, great, great great
grandpa. You know, they if they were

(01:37:44):
going to try drugs or alcohol, they were probably an
adolescent. They were probably a teenager.
So that's why that, that, that that demographic of people are
dying at a greater levels because that's when they're
first trying a drug. We now have a drug in our drug
supply that we didn't have when we were their age.
We have a drug that will kill them the first time they use it.

(01:38:05):
So drug experimentation. What is this stuff?
You know, what is, what is this cocaine?
What is this heroin? What are these pills?
You know this to treat, you know, or to make me feel better
for my anxiety or whatever. They now contain a drug that we
never, never had to deal with when we were their age, trying
drugs or alcohol that kills themthe first time they use it.

(01:38:25):
So that's another thing I tell young people, as I say, hey,
maybe it's not fair. It's just the reality of it is
the drugs that were around when I was a teenager, you know,
yeah, they were going to screw you up.
And they, they, they can mess your lives up, but they
certainly are. They the chances of you dying
were pretty damn rare. Because you need to.

(01:38:45):
Know you needed to take too muchof something, but now there's no
such thing as too much. It's literally that one shot.
Could be that, that last shot. Yeah.
I mean, I know you said it a couple of times, I don't think.
People appreciate what 2 milligrams is.
I mean, you, you said like a couple granules of salt or sand,
you know, sugar packet, you know, I do this all the time and
I take a sugar packet and I say sugar packet is 1g.

(01:39:09):
OK, a little tiny sugar packet. Yeah, OK. 1G. 1G is a. 1000
milligrams and this sugar packetwe're now fentanyl and it had
1000 milligrams in it. That would be enough to kill 500
people. So what I'll do is I'll
literally take a sugar packet and I'll, and I'll pour it in a
little little plastic vial that I buy on Amazon, you know, for a

(01:39:29):
couple bucks. And I'll pass that around to
young people because I want themto physically see 500.
People dying. Look like.
Starts to to. Like.
You think about a pill, right? It's just a little.
Tiny pill, whether you think it's an oxy, Adderall, Xanax,
whatever it is, and now that little tiny granules of salt or

(01:39:50):
sand, I sprinkle that the pill, it might be on the edge, it
might be in the middle, like it's not going to take 99% of
the pill. It's going to take a tiny, tiny,
tiny portion of that pill and that's all it takes to kill you.
So, you know, these kids that are like, you know, well, then
we'll break them in half. We'll split the pill in half.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, 2. Milligrams.
And that's happened how? Many times does that happen

(01:40:11):
where the one child dies and theother one doesn't, because you
don't know where that tiny tiny,you can't anyway, you, you, you
can't, you can't understand that.
Did you think about that yourself to?
To do it visually like that, yeah, I did.
Yeah. Yeah.
Solid, because right when you'resaying that I'm.
Realizing the impact that that could have while in fact I I was

(01:40:31):
starting. To do like multiple sugar
packets and I had this long tubeand I put, I put like 5 or 6
sugar and end up being like 3000people.
And I, and I started handing, I don't do that all the time, but
I wanted them to think, OK, now we have 3000 people.
That's, that's the size of your entire school here, all your
grades, all the, you know, 8th graders, 9th graders, all that
stuff. I said this right here could
kill this could wipe out the entire school.

(01:40:54):
If I could convince you to use these drugs.
And it, it's just, it's just a visual, you know, reference in
it. And I think it works.
How important is that mental health?
Services and addiction recovery programs to be integrated into
solution of this mental crisis and what should be done to
provide support to those struggling with addiction and

(01:41:17):
mental health issues that that often accompany this addiction.
Without it, we're not doing anything.
We're just spinning our wheels. We need that piece, absolutely
need that piece. So what should be done?
If we need to fund it, we need to put pressure on our
politicians to say, look, this is ridiculous.
This, you know, well, where's the money going to come from?

(01:41:37):
Where you found the money to study how pigeons you know
exactly certain roofs I mean, come.
On now let's let's. Let's get for real.
And, and, and what people don't realize is put a little bit more
money on the front end and guesswhat's going to happen?
We're going to spend less on theback end, right?
I mean, it's like, it's like fixing something half ass.
Well, we fixed it. OK, great.
But you're gonna have to fix it again and again and again.

(01:41:57):
So over time, and I've had, I'vehad city administrators say,
well, but we can budget every year for these little amounts of
money. It it just no, put put some
money on the front end and fix it and then you're barely
touching it. Over time, financially speaking,
absolutely. We've got to stop just putting.
Band. Aids on these problems if if we

(01:42:18):
truly care about people and truly care about this problem
and all the collateral damage that happens because I mean all
the crime and all the the pain and all the things that are that
that are happening because of drugs.
Let's invest on that front end and in, in mental abuse or, you

(01:42:38):
know, the trauma and let's, let's have these discussions
and, and let's, let's be seriousabout them.
It's like I understand why we don't.
Fund cold cases because I had a guy that talked about this and
it's because we don't know if wehave a win at the end, like we
we have a win in this. If we start investing in those

(01:42:59):
programs to make these people recover their trauma and mental
health, well, you, you have way less chances of them going into
the the So, So for sure understand like cold cases, why
we can't fund them all because you need a win.
But this is a win no matter how you fund it.
So for sure people should start looking at that.

(01:43:20):
Totally agree and I really appreciate you.
Coming on the podcast. Today at man, it was an
incredible and I hope people that are listening to this right
now, like like you guys are taking the time to talk to your
family, talk about these problems because this is serious
and a lot of people are are going through hell working.
Everybody find you and your workand your socials if you have

(01:43:42):
some. Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn.
It's probably about the only social media that I really, I
really browse everyday. I have a, a couple websites,
only two mg.com. So it's ONLY and just the #2
it's not spelled out. And then MG S0L 0NL y2mg.com is

(01:44:05):
our nonprofit organization. Only 2MG has my schedule.
It has had a contact me. You know what we do From there
you can see the link to Eagle 6 Training, which is my, my, my
training consulting business. And if you want to connect, I'm
happy to connect and happy to tohave this conversation.
Our training is only two only 2MG training is free.

(01:44:31):
We do ask if you're able to afford to make a donation to us
to help with with travel and things like that.
But I made a decision early on that I didn't want money to be
in the way of having this important conversation.
It's wonderful when people can give me that's an extra, but we.
Shouldn't wait for it to advanceif you're telling me you want to
have this conversation but you have.

(01:44:52):
Zero budget. I'll find a way one way or
another to make it financially work.
I mean, it's not free to get on an airplane and travel all the
way to do it. Awesome, now you've.
Been you've been a great help and thank you again for coming.
It was an honor. Well, thank you.
I appreciate. Your time and and giving me the
the venue to share my thoughts. It's my pleasure so.

(01:45:15):
Thanks everybody and have a great weekend.

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