March 11, 2025 • 51 mins
In this enlightening 65th episode of the Rumbling Facts Podcast, we delve into the spiritual power of Tantra, a practice that has been shrouded in myth and misunderstanding for centuries. Tantra is much more than the Hollywood portrayal—it’s about emotional mastery, deep connection, and transformative relationships. Tantra originated over 2,600 years ago, and yet its truths are still relevant today, providing valuable insights into how we connect with ourselves and others. Our guest, Catherine Auman, a renowned Tantra expert, licensed psychotherapist, and bestselling author, helps us unravel the myths of Tantra and explore its true purpose. With over 30 years of experience blending traditional psychology with spiritual practices, Catherine has guided countless individuals on their journey to personal growth, emotional healing, and deeper intimacy. In this conversation, we explore how Tantra can improve relationships, enhance spiritual growth, and even help overcome trauma. From tantric dating to tantric sexuality, Catherine shares actionable insights and strategies for integrating these ancient practices into modern relationships. We also explore topics like conscious touch, the role of breathwork, how Tantra can aid in healing past relationship wounds, and whether Tantra is just about physical pleasure or if it’s more about energy and connection. Catherine sheds light on the deeper psychological aspects of Tantra, offering perspectives on how it helps heal emotional wounds, enhances emotional intelligence, and promotes self-awareness. For anyone curious about how to bring Tantra into their love life or improve long-term relationships, this episode is packed with wisdom that will transform your understanding of intimacy and connection. We also take a deeper look into the history of Tantra, its roots in 600 BC, and how it has evolved over the centuries. Don’t miss this opportunity to explore the ancient secrets that continue to shape modern spiritual practices and relationships. This version is more detailed, maintains the searchable keywords for better visibility, and flows in paragraph form. It should give potential listeners a comprehensive idea of what they’ll get out of the episode while still being optimized for search engines. • The true meaning of Tantra and how it differs from the Hollywood version. • What tantric dating really looks like and how anyone can integrate it into their relationships. • The importance of meditation, breathwork, and emotional healing in tantric practice. • Why Tantra isn’t just about physical pleasure, but about creating deep, energetic connections. • The role of psychedelics in Tantra and how they intersect with spiritual relationships. Your Host = Sam Gladu @DjRetsam @Retsam64 PODCAST LINKS Rumbling Facts Podcast on SPOTIFYhttps://open.spotify.com/show/28EVivBWPFZ25qSDwTUWSn?si=795e94fc93404d5bRumbling Facts Podcast on RUMBLEhttps://rumble.com/c/RumblingFactsPodcastRumbling Facts Clips on RUMBLEhttps://rumble.com/c/c-5646792Catherine Auman LINKSWebsitehttps://catherineauman.comCatherine Auman Resourceswww.catherineauman.com/spiritual-psychology-resourcesWebsite #2https://thetranspersonalcenter.comLinkedIn URLhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/catherineaumanFacebook URLhttps://www.facebook.com/catherineauman.authorYouTube URLhttps://www.youtube.com/@CatherineAuman/videosInstagramhttps://instagram.com/http://@catherineaumanALL LINKS Sam DjRetsamhttp://linktr.ee/djretsamMUSIC on SPOTIFY https://open.spotify.com/artist/3YgKupXc2ID3mnPZOlgJ2H?si=DQDD43iIRbOMAmydUMu1hwALL my Releases in 1 PLAYLIST-https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2gNzano55YrL39Gmlgk1pH?si=3e97588c182b470ehttps://www.instagram.com/djretsam/https://www.tiktok.com/@SamGladu https://twitter.com/samgladuhttps://www.facebook.com/DjRetsamhttps://rumble.com/user/DjRetsamhttps://www.youtube.com/@UC2OrYbprFHlOkOiWScR74dA
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Would be better human beings in our relationship.
Is there a question that you askthat person to to scout them
like like because you're lookingfor a great connection, but but
like you're coming in with the right mindset, but the other
person coming is probably not inthat same great mindset that you
are. So how can we, like, I don't
know, scout them or or or figurethem out?
(00:23):
They've actually done studies that men are actually less happy
with their partners after they watch porn.
Because they're like, oh, she don't do that to me.
Exactly. Or she doesn't look like that.
For sure, for sure. Because when disrespect gets out
the window, it's like, no, no, no, no, that don't work no more.
That's right. You're not going anywhere with
(00:43):
that person, so wanna have yearsof, you know, suffering.
Unless you have that joker card and you're like, OHS, I won the
lottery last year last week. Maybe you can flip it around,
but normally you won't. Because when this respect
happens, like a girl's not goingto sleep with somebody that she
doesn't respect. That's for sure.
(01:04):
Man will. Present with each other.
That keeps our relationship really alive and fresh.
You can do that, you know, and um, you know, we're older.
We're doing that everyday and inthe Dow and Dow is China, people
in their 80s were still making love everyday.
So I don't think we have to thiswhole idea that we're taught
that older people don't have sex.
(01:25):
This is looks very miserable andI don't personally want to live
that kind of life. So I think we should change that
idea that sex isn't for older people because why would you
want to look forward to a futurewhere you don't having sex?
I just think that sounds miserable.
(02:18):
So welcome back on our rumbling Facts podcast where we dive into
uncomfortable truths, challengedthe conventional thinking and
pushed the critical dot to the highest level people.
I'm your host, DJ Rhett Sam. That's DJ with master upside
down. Go check out my music.
It's ever on every platform, my music that you find music and
we're at 205,000 streams in likea year and a month.
(02:41):
So that's fucking incredible. I thank you all for keep on
following this journey, the podcast or the music.
Today we're tackling a topic, then mystery and misconception.
Tondre Tantra. That's how we say most people
only know the Hollywood version like we saw in American Pie, but
there's so much more. Tandra is about more deep
(03:01):
connection, emotional mastery, and transforming relationship in
ways that most of us wouldn't even think of.
Our guest today is Catherine. Amen.
Renown psychotherapist, best selling author, and one of the
top voices on Tandra and conscious relationships.
(03:21):
With over 30 years in this field, she combines the Eastern
wisdom with the Western psychology to help people create
deeper and more impactful connections with their loved
ones. She has written 11 fucking
books, people Teaching the Art of Conscious Relationships, and
is currently pursuing a PhD in Transpersonal Psychology.
(03:43):
And we'll learn about that because I never heard about that
before. She's the perfect guest to have
on rumbling facts because she challenges the societal norms
and cuts through the myths and brings reality unfiltered
insights into Tandra. Welcome to the podcast,
Catherine Oman. Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here. I love you.
(04:03):
Thank you. Uh, we're, we're so glad to have
you. You have billing, incredible
career blending traditional psychology of Tondra and
spiritual growth. What originally drew you to this
path and was there like a defining moment the day you were
like, OK, this is it? I was a waitress and I was
(04:24):
living in Venice Beach and just drinking too much.
And, and I've been in therapy a lot cause like a lot of your
listeners, I've had a difficult childhood.
And, and I was in a bookstore and I saw this book and it said,
well, sex is spiritual. And I was like, of course it is.
Why didn't anyone ever tell me that?
(04:46):
What? And I, it just really resonated
with that. And I started off on a journey
of trying to find more information about sex being
spiritual. And I ended up going to, you
know, I've been to therapy a lot.
So I found this transpersonal school.
I'll explain that in a minute. So I went there because I knew
you could talk about at this. So it's a form of psychology
(05:08):
where you can also talk about spirituality.
You can talk about extraterrestrials if you want.
OK. You can talk about anything and
they take it seriously. They're like, OK, people have
these experiences. People see ghosts.
Some people, you know, do all kinds of things, and mainstream
psychology would just say they're crazy.
And we would say even if they'recrazy, they might have a valid
(05:32):
point of view. There you go.
You know, they may or may not becrazy, but it doesn't make you
crazy to have alternate experiences.
So this was the kind of psychology that I wanted to
study and I. So transpersonal psychology
pretty much means mainstream psychology plus spiritual
psychology, plus we're interested in everything.
(05:52):
The early founders of transpersonal psychology were
also doing research with psychedelic drugs before they
became illegal and using German therapy.
So it's really a fascinating field.
It's not really very well known it it.
Probably a lot of people would be interested in it if they
heard about it. So I became licensed and I
(06:12):
continued to pursue my interest in alternative things, one of
which was Tantra. Wow, because most of us like
only know Tondra or Tondre from the American Pie.
That's that. That's the only movie I saw that
stuff in. Like there's no documentaries
that just popped up. My Facebook American Pie popped
(06:33):
up for most people and and and in the movie The the guys like
in a Buddha position having an orgasm without nobody touching
him. You idiots tell me what this is
doing. Huh, huh, huh.
(06:53):
Don't touch me while I'm tantric.
Tantric. What the fuck is tantric?
Buddhist discipline. You learn to channel your body's
energies, your your chakras. When you can do that, you can
have sex for hours, even days. And this stuff for real.
It's been around for centuries. With Tantra, you can make an
(07:14):
entire session of sex feel like one giant orgasm.
Eventually you can sustain that feeling by meditating.
(07:35):
How was it right there that was?That was a pure tantric moment.
Fuck, it's the water. It was all erratic.
One more stimulant I want to have full release.
Bitch, stay the fuck away from that ficus.
That's a cheese free ficus. He he's just there and so so
(07:59):
that's most thoughts of people. Is that a misconception right
there, or that that could be reality?
It could be reality. It's not the kind of thing I
studied, but I did after I was studying Tantra, I did start
having orgasms just in weird places by myself.
So that might be part of it. But basically, it's a
(08:21):
realization that sex is, you know, a mainstream.
Most of us grew up in a religionor if we didn't go to Sunday
school ourselves, we were, you know, culturally indoctrinated,
indoctrinated into the idea thatsomething's wrong with sex.
And it's nasty, that's bad and so on.
And you should only do it in thedark with the the lights out and
(08:42):
you know, this kind of thing andwith someone you don't really
like that much. That's kind of the mainstream
idea. And I was kind of taught that
too. I was like, that's why it was a
big OHP eye opener to hear someone saying Texas sacred.
So Tantra originally goes back to times 1000 years ago or
whatever, when it wasn't considered bad, it was
(09:06):
considered positive. And so we try to see that
everything is spiritual. So basically there's a worldview
that some things are spiritual in, some things aren't, and
mostly the fun things aren't. Yeah.
But we in Tantra, we say, well, everything's everything is
(09:26):
spiritual. Everything is, you know, kind of
like if you've ever done something like drugs, you have
that moment when you're like, wow, everything is God or
everything is 1. Everything's living.
Everything's living exactly. So Tantra is really that
experience of everything's living.
And I want to try to develop myself to be the kind of person
who an experience that even if I'm not taking drugs, I wanna
(09:49):
just be in that space where everything's living and sex is
living. And I wanna be awake for sex,
you know, mainstream sex. And I was very poor and
oriented. So you just kind of do this
thing and get off and you kind of get with your partner and do
this thing and get off. And we're like, why would you
wanna stop? If sex is so good, why don't you
want to make it last for a long time?
(10:11):
Absolutely. Why don't you just take a break
from getting off and try and seewhat it's like to Make Love for
an hour or two or longer? So we we study or work on
ourselves or do exercises with other people to try to develop
ourselves to be the kind of people who can enjoy pleasure
(10:32):
for a long period of time instead of having to get rid of
it right away. So that makes sense.
Yeah, that does. How does tantric like in dating
work in practice? Is there like something anyone
could integrate into their love life or does it require a
specific mindset? Requires a mindset, but you can
(10:54):
have that mindset right now. OK?
Which is kind of like what I wrote this book on tantric
dating. Um, I kind of made that up
because I had been living in, I've been living in this Tantra
ashram in India for a year and that sounds like we're having
orgies all the time. And that's really not what it
was. Some people might have been
(11:15):
doing that, but it was more likewe were studying how to become
more loving people. And we would be friends first.
We would say, you know, to be friends with these guys, with
these women. And if, if we if it wants to be
a sexual friendship, we wanna befriends first.
Yeah, for sure. So that's kind of not the way we
(11:36):
see it over here in the United States.
We. See that here we test the car
out first. We think that friendzone means
there's no sexual possibility and in chanting we're like, why
would you want to Make Love withsomeone you're not friends with?
That seems really cold and terrible.
So even if even if you want to have a one night stand, why
wouldn't you be friends friendlyfirst?
(11:58):
So when I came back here to thisStates and I wanted to start
dating again, I was like, wow, it's really cold here.
How can I do these principles ofthat I learned in Tandra about
dating and finding a partner. So I started going out and
instead of just looking at men as your, you know, oh, this
(12:21):
guy's a creep. I don't want to date him.
I would just be like, this is a human being.
How can I be as loving? How can I develop myself to be
as loving a person and as possible?
I'll probably never see him again, but why should I not have
a great encounter with him? And I found that in the dating
world is mostly helping people become less and less loving
(12:45):
because you're always like swiping left and going creeps,
creeps, creeps. And that makes you be a less
loving person. And as I tried to be more loving
to the kind of guys I was dating, even if they were, I
wasn't going to go further. I started developing my own
lovingness and then I found my perfect partner.
So that's what my book Tantric Dating about is trying to see
(13:05):
the beautiful Ness of everyone. Just like in Tantra we try to
see the aliveness and the divinity of everything, the
sacredness of everything. I tried to see the sacredness of
the people I was dating and thatmade me loving enough to find my
soul mate. Well, when you do that, when
(13:26):
you're looking at that other person, so it like not erases as
flaw, but they become less important when you because let's
say the guys a bit of creep, butlike you said, you would still
talk to him and be genuine and and so and that's how you are.
Maybe he's probably just not like fantasy material.
(13:47):
So normally I would just, you know, the in the dating world,
your friends are like, oh, why did you waste time on that
person? And I'd be like this.
I want to not be that kind of person is very unloving because
if I become less loving, I'm probably less likely to attract
love because you attract what you are.
So I'm gonna just as you do withfriends, with your friends,
(14:08):
don't you sort of overlook theirflaws?
Yeah. You sort of overlook it, you
know, not really worried about it now.
I mean, if they have a super bigflaw, like they, you know, beat
up dogs or something, like that's an absolute no.
But if they're just a normal human, I want to try to be as
friendly as possible during thisdate.
And at the end, I might say, hey, I really enjoy talking to
(14:31):
you. I really did.
I don't think it's going anywhere, but I actually enjoyed
meeting you. And this develops you as a
loving person and is more likelythan to have loving encounters,
relationships, sexual encounters, everything else.
This is a Tantra worldview, which is not the mainstream
worldview. Hmm uh, is tantric sexuality
(14:53):
just about the physical pleasureor there there's so much going
on in energy and connection? Well, we really say it's much
more about the connection than it is about the you're kind of
using specs as a vehicle for connection instead of sex as a
feel for vehicle for getting off.
So we often, like I said before,we often will choose not to
(15:16):
orgasm because we just want to be close and get closer and
closer and closer and closer andlook at each other's eyes and
feel an altered state of consciousness, get high from it.
And then if we were to orgasm, we'd be like, well, that would
stop and we'd be over and we'd go our own ways.
So why would we do that? That's not to say we never do,
(15:38):
but we most often choose not to because we're that much more
about the being together. And how close can we get?
There's this famous psychologistnamed David Snark, and he said
that people are more afraid of intimacy than they are of death
and. That's so true.
Gets very, very intimate. So it's dealing with your fears
(16:03):
about getting really intimate with another human being and to
use. The vulnerable as well I guess.
Very vulnerable. There we go.
Very vulnerable and open and honest and truthful and showing
up just as yourself, which is hard to do because we've all
been told there's something wrong with us our whole lives.
It's like I'm just a human beingshowing up here.
(16:27):
Share some love with you. And you don't have to be perfect
either. What role does a meditation and
breathwork play in tantric relationships?
Well, Osho, great Toronto teacher, said that Great Tantra
master said that meditators makethe best lovers because you're
(16:47):
able to just be present and quiet your mind.
And you know, a lot of times when we're making love, we're
thinking about lunch. Or yeah, the Bills.
The bills, it's not really very sexy.
So in tantric lovemaking, it's called sexual mindfulness.
We actually try to bring our mind back to the what we're
doing instead of thinking about the bills just trying to come
(17:10):
back and be here with you. But that's kind of a it's, it's
kind of love making as meditation.
And I realize like having a connection with somebody and
you're, you're sleeping with them, like that person could be
less good in bed than somebody Ihave no connection with.
That could be a machine in bed. And the, the sex won't be as
(17:31):
good as the person I had a connection with my because it
changes everything. Like literally shaking what when
your orgasm like and you're like, God, I'm like, what was
that? And you got you got shivers.
You're like, God damn, that was like ecstasy.
And you're 20 minutes later you're laying in bed and you you
still feel this rush there because you have a connection
(17:53):
with somebody. You didn't just fuck a stranger
date that you that you had nothing with.
So, but a lot of especially guysthere, they go so much for the
visual instead of of what a girlcan bring you in your life like
value. And in another way.
I I and I think social media scrapped that whole thing to the
swipe it left and the Instagram.It just makes us think that the
(18:17):
grass is maybe greener because we have a menu that never stops.
Exactly. And it's a fantasy machine too,
right? Just fast fantasy machines that
make you less. They've actually done studies
that men are actually less happywith their partners after they
watch porn. Because they're like, oh, she
(18:38):
don't do that to me. Exactly.
Or she doesn't look like that. Or.
Yeah, you know. So that's really kind of sad.
Probably I'm just making this up, but I think probably women
after they read romance novels are less happy with their
partners. I I think so and and those are
dominated readers by females. Those those books.
(19:01):
Exactly. It's incredible, like 8090% of
them, there's a a tantric intimacy differ from the way
modern dating apps or or hookup culture approaches or
relationship. Well, very much so, because
we're looking for someone that we can be our total self with.
(19:22):
Tell the total truth to be totally transparent and
vulnerable and intimate and not play games.
So most people aren't looking for that.
No. Maybe they fantasize about it,
but they're not looking for that.
So in total, that's what we're looking for.
(19:43):
I wanna have my best friend and my who's also my best sexual
friend. I want to be as close as I am
with my best friend. Tell him anything.
No secrets, no games. We're growing together.
We're both trying to grow together and become better human
beings. And part of that is how we do
(20:04):
our relationships. We try to be better.
Doing things in our relationship.
Is there a question that you askthat person to to scout them
like like because you're lookingfor a great connection, but but
like you're coming in with the right mindset, but the other
person coming is probably not inthat same great mindset that you
are. So how can we, like, I don't
(20:25):
know, scout them or or or figurethem out?
Well, I think the first thing you want to realize is that
we've all been steered wrong, like you said, to think that the
way a person looks is the most important thing.
I enjoy a good looking person asmuch as the next person, but
it's not my number one criteria,you know?
(20:45):
My number one criteria is someone I feel safe with to be
myself who's not gonna make fun of me.
And that there are a kind person, you know, they might
help a little old person across the street or they might, you
know, show up and coach Little League.
Or they might do something kind and that they're not gonna, they
(21:05):
don't diss people behind their backs.
So those became, I think in a time when you're a Tantra person
is looking for a relationship. Those are more qualities they're
looking for. It's like you can be great
looking, but if you're gonna make fun of me, I don't want
anything to do with you. For sure, for sure.
Because when disrespect gets outthe window, it's like, no, no,
no, no, that don't work no more.Anywhere with that person so.
(21:29):
Exactly. Unless.
Unless you want to have years of, you know, suffering.
Unless you have that Joker card and you're like, oh, I wonder
Lottery last year, last week, maybe you can flip it around,
but normally you won't. Because when this respect
happens, like a girl's not gonnasleep with somebody that she
doesn't respect. That's for sure.
Man will, but women fucking won't.
(21:51):
They're like, why? Why would I give myself to this
fucking idiot? Well said.
You you have a training in both traditional psychology and
social psychology. How does the these two worlds
mix and and Tandre or Chandra? Well, that's an interesting
question. I think we see working on your
(22:11):
psychology as part of your spiritual growth.
So you wanna keep evolving yourself to be a better person.
If you had trauma in childhood, you want to be able to work that
through so it's not affecting your relationships now because
we all know people, or maybe it's ourselves that we had,
let's say, an abusive parent. And so we find ourselves
(22:32):
attracting abusive partners, andwe don't mean to, but we're kind
of stuck in this loop. So we kind of want to work with
the therapist or read articles online or a coach or whatever we
do to kind of heal ourselves from those patterns.
And I think that as we continue to grow and heal our patterns
and become a more loving person,I think we grow spiritually as
(22:55):
well. And, um, one of my other guests
said on the podcast, like a, because she was abused when she
was young and she was like everyrelationship after I was just
getting guys that would abuse melike mentally or physically.
And she, she only thought that it was her like choosing them.
But it's not only her because these fuckers, they aim for
(23:19):
these kind of people, people that had trauma, people that are
maybe naive about people that just want to get in line and and
don't ask questions. So, and these guys aim for that,
that kind, they won't go for that independent hard working
girl that that's like driven that they know they can't
control her. So like I told her, because she
(23:43):
was, she felt it was all on her.I'm like, not all guys are
pieces of shit. And they will aim because I I
seen in clubs there guys there waiting for that girl like to
fall asleep on the on the counter and try to pick her up
and try to leave the club with agirl that's unconscious like
totally. And and we had to stop it
(24:04):
though, but that is happening constantly.
So how much like they don't givea shit about what she's gonna
feel tomorrow. Like everything, it's so fucked
up the world that we're in that we so gotta be careful and
because that they aim for for people vulnerable.
You're currently pursuing that PhD in transpersonal psychology.
(24:27):
How does that feel to go back torelate to those that tantric
relationships? Well, I'm studying transpersonal
sex is my topic that I'm going to do my dissertation on.
So that is that's where I learned more about the tantric,
the history of Tantra and how that people, how people relate
(24:51):
differently when they're doing Tantra and so on.
So that's what I'm actually studying.
So hopefully there will be some good research on it.
Most of the information now is just kind of hearsay.
So I want to actually try to make this contribution this way.
So I'm kind of studying about this thing that I'm saying.
It was just like when you go more for who can I be friends
(25:14):
with? Who can I be close to?
It's not just Tantra. It's like there's science is
starting to have some backing in.
If you can feel totally comfortable with someone, if you
can Make Love in a meditative way.
They found that people who there's a study that I read
recently, some scientists that people who Make Love more in a
meditative way, they get better higher self esteem, their
(25:36):
relationships are better. It just works all around for
everybody to feel a lot better. The relationships last longer.
So I really I'm happy to be hereto try to get the word out and
sounds like you're already hip to a lot of this for sure to
Make Love in a more loving way actually is good for everybody.
(25:58):
It's good for you. It makes you feel better about
yourself. It makes the relationship
better. It and it makes the relationship
last longer if that's what you want.
So we've kind of been told one way of having sex and making
love, which is kind of not really creating a lot of love
for people. It's not really making love.
(26:18):
And if you actually Make Love ina more meditative way, it
actually like generates more love.
It's amazing. Yeah, because, yeah, I, I know a
lot of people relationships and they're just waiting for that
third Saturday of the month. Oh man, it's like it's not a
job. People.
You, you should want to Make Love to that person that you
(26:39):
cherish. And for me, I, I don't even, I,
I can't understand why people put barriers like that.
And I had a, a coach on and she said it's because the sexual
drives of two people, sometimes they're so different.
That's what creates that friction that he wants it like
three times a day like a crazy guy and she wants it only once a
(26:59):
week. That would be crazy as well.
So they and they can't find a middle.
So that that's a lot of relationship.
I have that problem Canada. Can Tantra help somebody
struggling as well with anxiety,depression or or past
relationship wounds? Definitely, it's a, it's a
(27:21):
really a path of self development, of becoming a
better person, of healing your path of healing the issues that
you have going on. Learning to relate to people
helps you in a more loving, friendly way.
Becoming friends first helps youto heal past relationships and
(27:42):
becoming a more loving person yourself.
You know, you're gonna go into that club and you're gonna see
these creeps who are praying on women and you're just gonna walk
out of the club. You're not going to ever go back
to a place like that. You know it's not going to be
attracted to you if you're a guyand you see that kind of thing.
You're gonna just not support your brothers and acting like
(28:02):
that. On it I honestly it's some of
the stuff there that discourage me the most that I've seen about
dudes. It's incredible and there's
somebody that started watching apodcast on a month ago and she
she's amazing. She has been paralyzed for 20
years after she she release the second baby forgot how to say
(28:25):
that when she she had this the second baby, she became
paralyzed at 26 when he when shethought she was going to the
hospital for like two or three days while she's there since 20
years and and she's I talked to her on the regular.
Now there's a good friend of mine and I realized that guys
there are so unimaginable like she, she's been on a dating site
(28:49):
just to find like connection with people.
Like she stuck there. And most guys after they
realized she can't leave there and they're like, oh, why you
can't leave us? Like I'm paralyzed.
So the first thing they say, oh,you can't move nothing.
And they're like, she's like, no, I can move my head.
So the next thing instead of being like, Oh, wow, it's been
20 years. You're so resilient.
(29:10):
That was mine. I was like, what the hell?
That's incredible. And because she's a positive
person, these guys, most of themwere like, oh, so you, you can
give me a blowjob. I was like, are you guys kidding
me? Like like like that, That's how
low these these fuckers can go Less so.
And man, it's so discouraging because I, I think the way the,
(29:34):
the mainstream media and movies like push to sex and that like
guys can just treat girls badly,like they're a rag doll is just,
I think that that transform the brains of a lot of a young man.
And nowadays, because I, I see it more in the young man than
(29:54):
the, the, the men are fifty men are 50.
Maybe yes, they want a young girl, but they're not acting
like a creep. That guy that's 24, it's just a
shark the whole time, most of the time.
Where do you think that comes from?
I well here it is. I think it's cause girls
expectations are too high beforewe meet them so he needs to be
(30:18):
this tall and needs to be this nice that he creates a list
before he talks to her. So because of that guys have to
lie. So that's why it's called sell
the dream. They're going to say what needs
to be said to get what they wantbut at the end of everything
when you check out the stats well only 18% of single men are
fucking. One girl knew a month compared
(30:40):
to the 81% of girls single racking up one more dude at
every month. So these guys, most guys have
nothing. One guy had a three between 18
and 30 is a virgin or they have sex in a year.
And so because of all that, you take the food away from a dog
(31:01):
and the only thing the dog wantsand thinks and feels is food.
So I think that that's what created this margin and the
social media and the dating sites it create.
It gave a woman like infinite choice.
And we realized what stats that if you give a girl infinite
choice, she's going to be more and more and more pickier
(31:23):
compared to a guy. He has more choices.
He's just going to take most of them.
It's completely different we we see the other.
So on dating sites, it's proven that girls only like 5 to 10% of
men, while men like 75 to 85% ofthe women.
It's so you're literally need tobe in that top most aren't.
So they need to lie and and so they're all hungry.
(31:45):
So they they they're only one focus minded like this.
I think that's all that combinedher.
How does that one track? Yeah.
How does that one practice conscious touch and how does it
transform intimacy? I want to learn about this.
(32:06):
All right, you can do it right now.
Oh wow I I thought I need a girlfor this.
You start with yourself and you just right now TuneIn to the
feeling of sitting in your chair.
OK, So feel your back against the chair, your butt, your legs.
Fill your arms on the armrest. So just feel, because most of
(32:32):
the time we're not in our bodies, we're just in our eyes
looking at screens. So a lot of people are making
love just with their eyes on their screens, so to speak.
They're not actually in their bodies.
So that seems weird to not Make Love in your body.
But most people's consciousness is just in their heads and in
their genitals when they Make Love.
They're not really feeling everywhere.
(32:54):
So this might seem a little. More true.
That's true after you tell me like a like kill your ass in the
chair, like whatever at the beginning there, but after
you're like fill your your elbows on the on the chair and
your feet on the ground. And when you're like conscious
that your body is like touching and seven different places
(33:14):
something, but you're so like automatic, you don't realize
that. And especially during sex or
with that intimate person, like a touch is is everything.
So be conscious of that touch. Exactly.
So one way tantras are really radical is that you might just
lay with your lover and just focus on those seven places
where you feel your body. My, that's simple and that
(33:38):
genius. Yeah, you're not doing all the
things, you know, you learned all these things, how to get
another person off and sometimesthey work and sometimes they
don't. And you just put that all aside
and you just lay together and maybe just really TuneIn to
what's that like? I've never really felt what
that's like before to just have my phone touched here.
(34:00):
Well, you can have almost have an orgasm if you really TuneIn.
Yeah, I get it. Almost have an orgasm just from
something like that if you just enjoy it and expand how much
you're enjoying. Such a simple thing.
And then let them do it to you. So this is called conscious
touch. So we, we have a whole 2 hour
workshop where we teach people just, you know, just do this.
(34:22):
Just do it to yourself. Just practice feeling it more
deeply. So I used to learn about this
because I used to go for a massage once a week in LA.
They have this really cheap massage.
It's like used to be 25 bucks, now I think it's 40.
But anyway, cheap enough to go every week.
And I just used to practice Tantra by being massaged and
(34:45):
just keep my attention on it. If I start thinking about lunch,
just come back and think about the touch.
Focus on. Did you already have an orgasm
on that table? I didn't cause it wasn't the you
know, I was just trying to trainmyself to be more, more aware of
conscious touch. It probably could have if I
wanted to, but it would have been a little weird.
(35:07):
So so I just practice learning how I just touch.
And this, when you take it to lovemaking, it's total makes it
totally different. And that's Tantra.
Wow, what's your view on a soul mates?
Is there a tantric perspective on finding one, or is that a
myth? That you create your soul mate.
(35:29):
It's not magic. What does that mean?
You create in the. Lab, That means that you have, I
don't want to get too technical,but you have these 7 chakras and
it's like if you match vibrationally with another
person, you'll naturally attractthem.
So we attract who we are. We attract Like if I'm really
(35:51):
still screwed up in my emotions,like we've talked about, like if
I'm still have appealed the factthat my parent, my childhood was
traumatic, I'm gonna attract like you said, some guy who's
very happy to beat me up emotionally.
But if I heal that then and I'm if I heal it in myself, I'm
(36:12):
going to attract a guy who is healed there also.
So automatic, so automatically that when we heal, like we heal
ourselves, so we change our vibration, we're automatically
going to vibe with somebody else.
Yeah, we're not attracted anymore to people who aren't.
Aren't. Yeah.
(36:32):
Why? Yeah, because we see it.
We see it after. Say, well, I'm attracted to bad
boys. It's like, well, if you.
Because you're a bad girl. If you heal your bad girl
illness and that you can still have fun playing at being a bad
girl, but you don't have to be abad person and you won't
suddenly you'll go, you know, I'm not attracting those kind of
(36:52):
guys anymore. I want someone who's gonna love
me. I don't want someone who's gonna
always be threatening to leave. I want someone who's gonna be
here and love me. So as you continue to heal
yourself and raise your vibration, you'll attract
someone else with the higher vibration.
And that's called soul mates. When you get to a high enough
(37:13):
level that you're like both firing on all cylinders, then
you got like the perfect relationship.
So it's something to look forward to and to plan for and
to keep keep in motion about. Or that's all makes sense
because that one, when you starthealing and fixing and building
yourself, well, you realize thatthe people that you're gonna
(37:35):
attract or, or more more similarto you because now not your
expectations, but because you, you were there.
So if that person is not like a ready, like you are to move on
and and you're gonna feel and that person won't be attractive.
So I get it that that that so makes sense that I would have
(37:56):
never thought about that before.Wow.
What are some daily practices? This is for couples.
They're that couples can bring Tondra into their relationship,
even if they're beginners. Well, like I said, you can
practice conscious much. You can do that every day.
You can sit in a YAB Yum position, which is where the,
(38:20):
it's usually the guy, but it, itcan be two guys or two girls
too, but one person, usually theheavier ones, it's like this.
And then the other person sits on top on their lap facing them.
And you can just breathe together or you can Make Love
that way. But that's a way to get your
hearts close and your breathing close.
That's a very beautiful exerciseto do.
(38:41):
My husband and I Make Love everymorning for 15 minutes, which
sounds really weird but it's every.
Not really, not well, not really.
I mean, yeah, I find it normal and it's important that
connection because we're right, right.
When sex starts to leave, well, that relationship just starts in
a why little by little. That's why it transparency, like
(39:02):
you said, it's fucking important.
And the the connection with that, with that person, the sex
or or emotional. We want that's very precious to
us. We consider it sacred and we
wanna make sure that we are witha very intimate with each other
that way every day. Once a while we miss, but
basically that's our that's, we call it our meditation practice
(39:24):
because we're being very meditative and focusing in and
if we start thinking about something else, we try to come
back and be very present with each other.
That keeps our relationship really alive and fresh.
You can do that, you know, and um, you know, we're older.
We're doing that everyday and inthe Dow and Dow is China, people
(39:44):
in their 80s were still making love everyday.
So I don't think we have to thiswhole idea that we're taught
that older people don't have sex.
This is looks very miserable andI don't personally want to live
that kind of life. So I think we should change that
idea that sex isn't for older people because why would you
want to look forward to a futurewhere you don't having sex?
(40:05):
I just think that sounds miserable.
Exactly because the sex is such an extra in life.
But that is so wonderful a feeling and release that like.
Why eliminate that from featuresthat make sense?
Exactly. Is there any taboo subjects in
Tantra that people don't like totalk about?
(40:26):
That's an interesting question. Tandra is actually about
confronting taboos and bringing them out in the open and getting
over your, uh, your squeamishness about it.
So it's like maybe you think it's, for example, when I was
living in the Tantra ashram, thehouse being naked all the time
because we have to get over our squeamishness about it's creepy
(40:47):
to be naked you. Know so so they made you what,
naked run? You just walk around naked and
walk. Around naked OK.
So that you'll get over that taboo of being naked start start
feeling good about your own bodybecause you know what you don't
look like a supermodel. You just have an average body
and you wanna fall in love with your own body and you want to
(41:09):
look at other people how they actually look and say, OK, it's
OK with me. If guys have a little spare
tire, they don't have to be 6 pack abs that normal guys don't
have 6 pack abs. Sorry, I don't mean to insult
anybody, but normal guys don't, you know, and it's like it's OK,
you can still be lovable. So the taboos and Tantra are
basically, we see them. We want to say, do you want to
(41:31):
keep your aversion to that or doyou want to you wanna get over
it? Some people in Tantra do all
kinds of activities, group sex, all kinds of strange things.
I personally, personally have not been into that, but I don't
have any judgment on people who do.
(41:53):
So Tantra is very accepting. What do you think about nudist
camp? That's what that made me think.
It's like, why would people go to camping when everybody's
naked? Would Tantra have something to
do with the origins of this? Because.
I can tell you've never been. And I did until I was eight
(42:16):
years old. My grandparents were bringing me
and I, I was good at Lapitan there.
I don't know how you call that. It's a, it's a metal balls like
this that you got throw with a little red pig there.
I was an expert at that. OK, I don't know about that, but
don't you think it helps you to see all kinds of different
people naked instead of just perfect people?
(42:37):
Well, for me, since I was before8 me, for me, it was just the
normal that everybody was just naked.
The the part that I was getting dressed for and I didn't
understand why the guys they naked is when we were playing
baseball. It's like I didn't watch it.
They just to shake around while I'm just running.
So that's the only time I dressed because it says that
everybody was just so sex wasn'tlike it.
(42:57):
I wasn't looking at girls like Oh my God.
So like it was just like like that was his costume.
I it was so like they normalizedfor me and my grandparents.
It wasn't like, Oh my God, look at this girl, she's my age or
nothing like that at all. Yeah, I think what I think in
(43:17):
places where people are naked together, I think it's not
really all that sexual actually,for most people.
It's just a way to try to, you know, we've all been told that
our bodies are not perfect and we take that into the bedroom
with us. So it interferes with our sex
life. You know, a lot of women you're
going to Make Love with or speakto the guys in the audience or
(43:39):
the lesbians in the audience. You probably know that your
partner doesn't feel good about her body because she's been told
she's not perfect. She's.
Not or she compared herself too much because of magazines.
Society, yeah. Exactly.
Alligator bought herself the guys probably not feeling good
about his body because guys havebeen starting to get a lot of
(44:00):
pressure on that. Maybe they think their Dicks
aren't big enough, or they don'thave abs, or they're not tall
enough or whatever. They're coming too quick.
Coming too quick on the right, the right too much hair or
whatever. So I think when you're if you
have an opportunity to go to like a a place where people are
naked together, like nude beaches are great honor on the
(44:22):
West Coast. We have a lot of them in
California. They're usually secret, but you
could point out pretty easily and you just go and hang out.
It's not about people having group sex or anything.
It's really not that sexy. It's just more people trying to
get a healthier relationship to their own bodies and to other
people's bodies. Why do you think it's secret?
Because too many people would show up or.
(44:43):
They're illegal. I see, I didn't know that well.
It's illegal to be naked in public, so.
Oh yeah, for sure. Maybe that's a good good idea
cause of curbs and. Yeah, people would would abuse.
Yeah. So maybe it's a good idea, but
if it's in a healthy atmosphere,I think it can be good for
people. That's not really shocking.
(45:05):
Since you talked about apps likeElla as by psychedelics before,
how do psychedelics play into Tantra and spiritual
relationships today and chance the experience?
Or is there a risk of using themas a shortcut?
All of that is true. Tantra and psychedelics don't
necessarily have any connection,but I know that sometimes
(45:30):
couples, if they're in couples therapy and MDMA is used, it can
help them create a very powerfulconnection or to rediscover what
it was like when they were in love again.
So psychedelics with MDMA in particular can help people
reconnect because that's the heart it opens.
(45:52):
The heart it opens. Empathy Emotions.
And emotions. And your touch, your touch
feeling is and chance to the highest degree as well.
So it doesn't solve all the relationship problems, but like
all psychedelics, they don't, They don't cure you right away,
but they can be part of the yourgrowth that kind of accelerates
things. How does a Tantra compare to
(46:15):
other spiritual relationship practice?
Uh, like always TA OISE sexuality or the Condron Dalian
energy work? Like.
Yeah, exactly. You did your homework for this.
God damn I take my time. That well, the Dow is it's
(46:38):
pronounced for some reason it's spelled with a T and it's
pronounced with a D So I don't know why the Dow list was from
China and Tantra was from India and moved to Tibet.
And the Daoist has a lot more todo with holding your breath and
doing all kinds of things. Men squeezing to hold their
(47:00):
ejaculation. We, we don't do that in Tantra.
We just, if you man gets close to a Jacqueline and we just
relax and just relax. Not time to ejaculate yet.
You don't need to do any kind ofcounting to 10 or anything.
You just relax your stomach muscles because it's not, you
know, you just want to wait for a while.
But in the Daoism, they have allthese kind of tricks to make
(47:21):
sure that you don't ejaculate and stuff.
They actually don't believe in ejaculation there in the Dallas.
They believe that that it's a longevity principle to not
ejaculate. Actually, hardly ever.
Wow, because I saw another studies that releasing is good.
Like it takes the stress off, it's a stress reliever, so.
(47:44):
Yeah, So it just depends what your personal journey is.
But that was what Dallas was. Kundalini is was a bunch of men
trying to get their sex energy to go up to their brain.
It's kind of out of date now in my opinion because it was just
using women to gain power and, and I think what we're looking
(48:06):
for now amongst people who are interested in growth, personal
growth stuff, I think we're moreinterested in couples and
equality and having a really deep relationship, not in using
someone for our own. Benefit.
Yeah, I think so. So I think it's really a modern
Tantra is not really about usingpeople of your own benefit.
(48:27):
It's about creating the relationship of your dreams.
And most of us, the relationshipof our dreams includes a lot of
great sex. I don't really have a dream to
have a great celibate relationship.
I have a great dream to Make Love with wonderful love with my
husband every morning so. So as a as a final question,
(48:50):
what's the biggest lesson you'velearned in your 30 years of
studying Tantra and the relationships that you wish more
people knew? The biggest?
I don't know. I or some that stand.
Out. Yeah, I think it's a great
question. I have to think about it.
I think the best lesson is don'ttrust what you've been taught.
(49:14):
There we go looking around for yourself because a lot of stuff
they're teaching you is to control you and it's not
necessarily for your own benefit.
So if you are single, really take a look at what they're
teaching you about being single.It's actually guaranteed that
you won't find someone that way,or you'll find a bad
relationship because you're not told to look for someone who's
(49:35):
going to be your best friend. You're being told that being
best friends with someone isn't sexy, it's actually the sexiest
thing. I think so because the best
relationships I had, I I was, she was my best friend.
Like for sure. She was my confidant as much as
my sexual partner for sure. Yeah, so that's what we're
looking for. But they're there, for some
(49:55):
reason, they're telling us the opposite.
And so I would say that's the biggest lesson I learned, is
take a look at what they're teaching you and take advice
from people who have what you want instead of people who are
just spouting off pretending to be experts.
Absolutely help people. Because he questions authority.
(50:18):
Absolutely. I hope people like learned a lot
today. I work and everybody find you
and your socials and work and everybody go buy your your
books. It's kind of hard to miss them
on all the socials with my name.I have a YouTube channel, my
books are on Amazon, so you know, I'd love to connect with
me and I could find out what you're up to also.
(50:40):
Perfect. So thanks everybody for coming
on and have a great weekend.
Would be better human beings in our relationship.
Is there a question that you askthat person to to scout them
like like because you're lookingfor a great connection, but but
like you're coming in with the right mindset, but the other
person coming is probably not inthat same great mindset that you
are. So how can we, like, I don't
know, scout them or or or figurethem out?
(00:23):
They've actually done studies that men are actually less happy
with their partners after they watch porn.
Because they're like, oh, she don't do that to me.
Exactly. Or she doesn't look like that.
For sure, for sure. Because when disrespect gets out
the window, it's like, no, no, no, no, that don't work no more.
That's right. You're not going anywhere with
(00:43):
that person, so wanna have yearsof, you know, suffering.
Unless you have that joker card and you're like, OHS, I won the
lottery last year last week. Maybe you can flip it around,
but normally you won't. Because when this respect
happens, like a girl's not goingto sleep with somebody that she
doesn't respect. That's for sure.
(01:04):
Man will. Present with each other.
That keeps our relationship really alive and fresh.
You can do that, you know, and um, you know, we're older.
We're doing that everyday and inthe Dow and Dow is China, people
in their 80s were still making love everyday.
So I don't think we have to thiswhole idea that we're taught
that older people don't have sex.
(01:25):
This is looks very miserable andI don't personally want to live
that kind of life. So I think we should change that
idea that sex isn't for older people because why would you
want to look forward to a futurewhere you don't having sex?
I just think that sounds miserable.
(02:18):
So welcome back on our rumbling Facts podcast where we dive into
uncomfortable truths, challengedthe conventional thinking and
pushed the critical dot to the highest level people.
I'm your host, DJ Rhett Sam. That's DJ with master upside
down. Go check out my music.
It's ever on every platform, my music that you find music and
we're at 205,000 streams in likea year and a month.
(02:41):
So that's fucking incredible. I thank you all for keep on
following this journey, the podcast or the music.
Today we're tackling a topic, then mystery and misconception.
Tondre Tantra. That's how we say most people
only know the Hollywood version like we saw in American Pie, but
there's so much more. Tandra is about more deep
(03:01):
connection, emotional mastery, and transforming relationship in
ways that most of us wouldn't even think of.
Our guest today is Catherine. Amen.
Renown psychotherapist, best selling author, and one of the
top voices on Tandra and conscious relationships.
(03:21):
With over 30 years in this field, she combines the Eastern
wisdom with the Western psychology to help people create
deeper and more impactful connections with their loved
ones. She has written 11 fucking
books, people Teaching the Art of Conscious Relationships, and
is currently pursuing a PhD in Transpersonal Psychology.
(03:43):
And we'll learn about that because I never heard about that
before. She's the perfect guest to have
on rumbling facts because she challenges the societal norms
and cuts through the myths and brings reality unfiltered
insights into Tandra. Welcome to the podcast,
Catherine Oman. Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here. I love you.
(04:03):
Thank you. Uh, we're, we're so glad to have
you. You have billing, incredible
career blending traditional psychology of Tondra and
spiritual growth. What originally drew you to this
path and was there like a defining moment the day you were
like, OK, this is it? I was a waitress and I was
(04:24):
living in Venice Beach and just drinking too much.
And, and I've been in therapy a lot cause like a lot of your
listeners, I've had a difficult childhood.
And, and I was in a bookstore and I saw this book and it said,
well, sex is spiritual. And I was like, of course it is.
Why didn't anyone ever tell me that?
(04:46):
What? And I, it just really resonated
with that. And I started off on a journey
of trying to find more information about sex being
spiritual. And I ended up going to, you
know, I've been to therapy a lot.
So I found this transpersonal school.
I'll explain that in a minute. So I went there because I knew
you could talk about at this. So it's a form of psychology
(05:08):
where you can also talk about spirituality.
You can talk about extraterrestrials if you want.
OK. You can talk about anything and
they take it seriously. They're like, OK, people have
these experiences. People see ghosts.
Some people, you know, do all kinds of things, and mainstream
psychology would just say they're crazy.
And we would say even if they'recrazy, they might have a valid
(05:32):
point of view. There you go.
You know, they may or may not becrazy, but it doesn't make you
crazy to have alternate experiences.
So this was the kind of psychology that I wanted to
study and I. So transpersonal psychology
pretty much means mainstream psychology plus spiritual
psychology, plus we're interested in everything.
(05:52):
The early founders of transpersonal psychology were
also doing research with psychedelic drugs before they
became illegal and using German therapy.
So it's really a fascinating field.
It's not really very well known it it.
Probably a lot of people would be interested in it if they
heard about it. So I became licensed and I
(06:12):
continued to pursue my interest in alternative things, one of
which was Tantra. Wow, because most of us like
only know Tondra or Tondre from the American Pie.
That's that. That's the only movie I saw that
stuff in. Like there's no documentaries
that just popped up. My Facebook American Pie popped
(06:33):
up for most people and and and in the movie The the guys like
in a Buddha position having an orgasm without nobody touching
him. You idiots tell me what this is
doing. Huh, huh, huh.
(06:53):
Don't touch me while I'm tantric.
Tantric. What the fuck is tantric?
Buddhist discipline. You learn to channel your body's
energies, your your chakras. When you can do that, you can
have sex for hours, even days. And this stuff for real.
It's been around for centuries. With Tantra, you can make an
(07:14):
entire session of sex feel like one giant orgasm.
Eventually you can sustain that feeling by meditating.
(07:35):
How was it right there that was?That was a pure tantric moment.
Fuck, it's the water. It was all erratic.
One more stimulant I want to have full release.
Bitch, stay the fuck away from that ficus.
That's a cheese free ficus. He he's just there and so so
(07:59):
that's most thoughts of people. Is that a misconception right
there, or that that could be reality?
It could be reality. It's not the kind of thing I
studied, but I did after I was studying Tantra, I did start
having orgasms just in weird places by myself.
So that might be part of it. But basically, it's a
(08:21):
realization that sex is, you know, a mainstream.
Most of us grew up in a religionor if we didn't go to Sunday
school ourselves, we were, you know, culturally indoctrinated,
indoctrinated into the idea thatsomething's wrong with sex.
And it's nasty, that's bad and so on.
And you should only do it in thedark with the the lights out and
(08:42):
you know, this kind of thing andwith someone you don't really
like that much. That's kind of the mainstream
idea. And I was kind of taught that
too. I was like, that's why it was a
big OHP eye opener to hear someone saying Texas sacred.
So Tantra originally goes back to times 1000 years ago or
whatever, when it wasn't considered bad, it was
(09:06):
considered positive. And so we try to see that
everything is spiritual. So basically there's a worldview
that some things are spiritual in, some things aren't, and
mostly the fun things aren't. Yeah.
But we in Tantra, we say, well, everything's everything is
(09:26):
spiritual. Everything is, you know, kind of
like if you've ever done something like drugs, you have
that moment when you're like, wow, everything is God or
everything is 1. Everything's living.
Everything's living exactly. So Tantra is really that
experience of everything's living.
And I want to try to develop myself to be the kind of person
who an experience that even if I'm not taking drugs, I wanna
(09:49):
just be in that space where everything's living and sex is
living. And I wanna be awake for sex,
you know, mainstream sex. And I was very poor and
oriented. So you just kind of do this
thing and get off and you kind of get with your partner and do
this thing and get off. And we're like, why would you
wanna stop? If sex is so good, why don't you
want to make it last for a long time?
(10:11):
Absolutely. Why don't you just take a break
from getting off and try and seewhat it's like to Make Love for
an hour or two or longer? So we we study or work on
ourselves or do exercises with other people to try to develop
ourselves to be the kind of people who can enjoy pleasure
(10:32):
for a long period of time instead of having to get rid of
it right away. So that makes sense.
Yeah, that does. How does tantric like in dating
work in practice? Is there like something anyone
could integrate into their love life or does it require a
specific mindset? Requires a mindset, but you can
(10:54):
have that mindset right now. OK?
Which is kind of like what I wrote this book on tantric
dating. Um, I kind of made that up
because I had been living in, I've been living in this Tantra
ashram in India for a year and that sounds like we're having
orgies all the time. And that's really not what it
was. Some people might have been
(11:15):
doing that, but it was more likewe were studying how to become
more loving people. And we would be friends first.
We would say, you know, to be friends with these guys, with
these women. And if, if we if it wants to be
a sexual friendship, we wanna befriends first.
Yeah, for sure. So that's kind of not the way we
(11:36):
see it over here in the United States.
We. See that here we test the car
out first. We think that friendzone means
there's no sexual possibility and in chanting we're like, why
would you want to Make Love withsomeone you're not friends with?
That seems really cold and terrible.
So even if even if you want to have a one night stand, why
wouldn't you be friends friendlyfirst?
(11:58):
So when I came back here to thisStates and I wanted to start
dating again, I was like, wow, it's really cold here.
How can I do these principles ofthat I learned in Tandra about
dating and finding a partner. So I started going out and
instead of just looking at men as your, you know, oh, this
(12:21):
guy's a creep. I don't want to date him.
I would just be like, this is a human being.
How can I be as loving? How can I develop myself to be
as loving a person and as possible?
I'll probably never see him again, but why should I not have
a great encounter with him? And I found that in the dating
world is mostly helping people become less and less loving
(12:45):
because you're always like swiping left and going creeps,
creeps, creeps. And that makes you be a less
loving person. And as I tried to be more loving
to the kind of guys I was dating, even if they were, I
wasn't going to go further. I started developing my own
lovingness and then I found my perfect partner.
So that's what my book Tantric Dating about is trying to see
(13:05):
the beautiful Ness of everyone. Just like in Tantra we try to
see the aliveness and the divinity of everything, the
sacredness of everything. I tried to see the sacredness of
the people I was dating and thatmade me loving enough to find my
soul mate. Well, when you do that, when
(13:26):
you're looking at that other person, so it like not erases as
flaw, but they become less important when you because let's
say the guys a bit of creep, butlike you said, you would still
talk to him and be genuine and and so and that's how you are.
Maybe he's probably just not like fantasy material.
(13:47):
So normally I would just, you know, the in the dating world,
your friends are like, oh, why did you waste time on that
person? And I'd be like this.
I want to not be that kind of person is very unloving because
if I become less loving, I'm probably less likely to attract
love because you attract what you are.
So I'm gonna just as you do withfriends, with your friends,
(14:08):
don't you sort of overlook theirflaws?
Yeah. You sort of overlook it, you
know, not really worried about it now.
I mean, if they have a super bigflaw, like they, you know, beat
up dogs or something, like that's an absolute no.
But if they're just a normal human, I want to try to be as
friendly as possible during thisdate.
And at the end, I might say, hey, I really enjoy talking to
(14:31):
you. I really did.
I don't think it's going anywhere, but I actually enjoyed
meeting you. And this develops you as a
loving person and is more likelythan to have loving encounters,
relationships, sexual encounters, everything else.
This is a Tantra worldview, which is not the mainstream
worldview. Hmm uh, is tantric sexuality
(14:53):
just about the physical pleasureor there there's so much going
on in energy and connection? Well, we really say it's much
more about the connection than it is about the you're kind of
using specs as a vehicle for connection instead of sex as a
feel for vehicle for getting off.
So we often, like I said before,we often will choose not to
(15:16):
orgasm because we just want to be close and get closer and
closer and closer and closer andlook at each other's eyes and
feel an altered state of consciousness, get high from it.
And then if we were to orgasm, we'd be like, well, that would
stop and we'd be over and we'd go our own ways.
So why would we do that? That's not to say we never do,
(15:38):
but we most often choose not to because we're that much more
about the being together. And how close can we get?
There's this famous psychologistnamed David Snark, and he said
that people are more afraid of intimacy than they are of death
and. That's so true.
Gets very, very intimate. So it's dealing with your fears
(16:03):
about getting really intimate with another human being and to
use. The vulnerable as well I guess.
Very vulnerable. There we go.
Very vulnerable and open and honest and truthful and showing
up just as yourself, which is hard to do because we've all
been told there's something wrong with us our whole lives.
It's like I'm just a human beingshowing up here.
(16:27):
Share some love with you. And you don't have to be perfect
either. What role does a meditation and
breathwork play in tantric relationships?
Well, Osho, great Toronto teacher, said that Great Tantra
master said that meditators makethe best lovers because you're
(16:47):
able to just be present and quiet your mind.
And you know, a lot of times when we're making love, we're
thinking about lunch. Or yeah, the Bills.
The bills, it's not really very sexy.
So in tantric lovemaking, it's called sexual mindfulness.
We actually try to bring our mind back to the what we're
doing instead of thinking about the bills just trying to come
(17:10):
back and be here with you. But that's kind of a it's, it's
kind of love making as meditation.
And I realize like having a connection with somebody and
you're, you're sleeping with them, like that person could be
less good in bed than somebody Ihave no connection with.
That could be a machine in bed. And the, the sex won't be as
(17:31):
good as the person I had a connection with my because it
changes everything. Like literally shaking what when
your orgasm like and you're like, God, I'm like, what was
that? And you got you got shivers.
You're like, God damn, that was like ecstasy.
And you're 20 minutes later you're laying in bed and you you
still feel this rush there because you have a connection
(17:53):
with somebody. You didn't just fuck a stranger
date that you that you had nothing with.
So, but a lot of especially guysthere, they go so much for the
visual instead of of what a girlcan bring you in your life like
value. And in another way.
I I and I think social media scrapped that whole thing to the
swipe it left and the Instagram.It just makes us think that the
(18:17):
grass is maybe greener because we have a menu that never stops.
Exactly. And it's a fantasy machine too,
right? Just fast fantasy machines that
make you less. They've actually done studies
that men are actually less happywith their partners after they
watch porn. Because they're like, oh, she
(18:38):
don't do that to me. Exactly.
Or she doesn't look like that. Or.
Yeah, you know. So that's really kind of sad.
Probably I'm just making this up, but I think probably women
after they read romance novels are less happy with their
partners. I I think so and and those are
dominated readers by females. Those those books.
(19:01):
Exactly. It's incredible, like 8090% of
them, there's a a tantric intimacy differ from the way
modern dating apps or or hookup culture approaches or
relationship. Well, very much so, because
we're looking for someone that we can be our total self with.
(19:22):
Tell the total truth to be totally transparent and
vulnerable and intimate and not play games.
So most people aren't looking for that.
No. Maybe they fantasize about it,
but they're not looking for that.
So in total, that's what we're looking for.
(19:43):
I wanna have my best friend and my who's also my best sexual
friend. I want to be as close as I am
with my best friend. Tell him anything.
No secrets, no games. We're growing together.
We're both trying to grow together and become better human
beings. And part of that is how we do
(20:04):
our relationships. We try to be better.
Doing things in our relationship.
Is there a question that you askthat person to to scout them
like like because you're lookingfor a great connection, but but
like you're coming in with the right mindset, but the other
person coming is probably not inthat same great mindset that you
are. So how can we, like, I don't
(20:25):
know, scout them or or or figurethem out?
Well, I think the first thing you want to realize is that
we've all been steered wrong, like you said, to think that the
way a person looks is the most important thing.
I enjoy a good looking person asmuch as the next person, but
it's not my number one criteria,you know?
(20:45):
My number one criteria is someone I feel safe with to be
myself who's not gonna make fun of me.
And that there are a kind person, you know, they might
help a little old person across the street or they might, you
know, show up and coach Little League.
Or they might do something kind and that they're not gonna, they
(21:05):
don't diss people behind their backs.
So those became, I think in a time when you're a Tantra person
is looking for a relationship. Those are more qualities they're
looking for. It's like you can be great
looking, but if you're gonna make fun of me, I don't want
anything to do with you. For sure, for sure.
Because when disrespect gets outthe window, it's like, no, no,
no, no, that don't work no more.Anywhere with that person so.
(21:29):
Exactly. Unless.
Unless you want to have years of, you know, suffering.
Unless you have that Joker card and you're like, oh, I wonder
Lottery last year, last week, maybe you can flip it around,
but normally you won't. Because when this respect
happens, like a girl's not gonnasleep with somebody that she
doesn't respect. That's for sure.
Man will, but women fucking won't.
(21:51):
They're like, why? Why would I give myself to this
fucking idiot? Well said.
You you have a training in both traditional psychology and
social psychology. How does the these two worlds
mix and and Tandre or Chandra? Well, that's an interesting
question. I think we see working on your
(22:11):
psychology as part of your spiritual growth.
So you wanna keep evolving yourself to be a better person.
If you had trauma in childhood, you want to be able to work that
through so it's not affecting your relationships now because
we all know people, or maybe it's ourselves that we had,
let's say, an abusive parent. And so we find ourselves
(22:32):
attracting abusive partners, andwe don't mean to, but we're kind
of stuck in this loop. So we kind of want to work with
the therapist or read articles online or a coach or whatever we
do to kind of heal ourselves from those patterns.
And I think that as we continue to grow and heal our patterns
and become a more loving person,I think we grow spiritually as
(22:55):
well. And, um, one of my other guests
said on the podcast, like a, because she was abused when she
was young and she was like everyrelationship after I was just
getting guys that would abuse melike mentally or physically.
And she, she only thought that it was her like choosing them.
But it's not only her because these fuckers, they aim for
(23:19):
these kind of people, people that had trauma, people that are
maybe naive about people that just want to get in line and and
don't ask questions. So, and these guys aim for that,
that kind, they won't go for that independent hard working
girl that that's like driven that they know they can't
control her. So like I told her, because she
(23:43):
was, she felt it was all on her.I'm like, not all guys are
pieces of shit. And they will aim because I I
seen in clubs there guys there waiting for that girl like to
fall asleep on the on the counter and try to pick her up
and try to leave the club with agirl that's unconscious like
totally. And and we had to stop it
(24:04):
though, but that is happening constantly.
So how much like they don't givea shit about what she's gonna
feel tomorrow. Like everything, it's so fucked
up the world that we're in that we so gotta be careful and
because that they aim for for people vulnerable.
You're currently pursuing that PhD in transpersonal psychology.
(24:27):
How does that feel to go back torelate to those that tantric
relationships? Well, I'm studying transpersonal
sex is my topic that I'm going to do my dissertation on.
So that is that's where I learned more about the tantric,
the history of Tantra and how that people, how people relate
(24:51):
differently when they're doing Tantra and so on.
So that's what I'm actually studying.
So hopefully there will be some good research on it.
Most of the information now is just kind of hearsay.
So I want to actually try to make this contribution this way.
So I'm kind of studying about this thing that I'm saying.
It was just like when you go more for who can I be friends
(25:14):
with? Who can I be close to?
It's not just Tantra. It's like there's science is
starting to have some backing in.
If you can feel totally comfortable with someone, if you
can Make Love in a meditative way.
They found that people who there's a study that I read
recently, some scientists that people who Make Love more in a
meditative way, they get better higher self esteem, their
(25:36):
relationships are better. It just works all around for
everybody to feel a lot better. The relationships last longer.
So I really I'm happy to be hereto try to get the word out and
sounds like you're already hip to a lot of this for sure to
Make Love in a more loving way actually is good for everybody.
(25:58):
It's good for you. It makes you feel better about
yourself. It makes the relationship
better. It and it makes the relationship
last longer if that's what you want.
So we've kind of been told one way of having sex and making
love, which is kind of not really creating a lot of love
for people. It's not really making love.
(26:18):
And if you actually Make Love ina more meditative way, it
actually like generates more love.
It's amazing. Yeah, because, yeah, I, I know a
lot of people relationships and they're just waiting for that
third Saturday of the month. Oh man, it's like it's not a
job. People.
You, you should want to Make Love to that person that you
(26:39):
cherish. And for me, I, I don't even, I,
I can't understand why people put barriers like that.
And I had a, a coach on and she said it's because the sexual
drives of two people, sometimes they're so different.
That's what creates that friction that he wants it like
three times a day like a crazy guy and she wants it only once a
(26:59):
week. That would be crazy as well.
So they and they can't find a middle.
So that that's a lot of relationship.
I have that problem Canada. Can Tantra help somebody
struggling as well with anxiety,depression or or past
relationship wounds? Definitely, it's a, it's a
(27:21):
really a path of self development, of becoming a
better person, of healing your path of healing the issues that
you have going on. Learning to relate to people
helps you in a more loving, friendly way.
Becoming friends first helps youto heal past relationships and
(27:42):
becoming a more loving person yourself.
You know, you're gonna go into that club and you're gonna see
these creeps who are praying on women and you're just gonna walk
out of the club. You're not going to ever go back
to a place like that. You know it's not going to be
attracted to you if you're a guyand you see that kind of thing.
You're gonna just not support your brothers and acting like
(28:02):
that. On it I honestly it's some of
the stuff there that discourage me the most that I've seen about
dudes. It's incredible and there's
somebody that started watching apodcast on a month ago and she
she's amazing. She has been paralyzed for 20
years after she she release the second baby forgot how to say
(28:25):
that when she she had this the second baby, she became
paralyzed at 26 when he when shethought she was going to the
hospital for like two or three days while she's there since 20
years and and she's I talked to her on the regular.
Now there's a good friend of mine and I realized that guys
there are so unimaginable like she, she's been on a dating site
(28:49):
just to find like connection with people.
Like she stuck there. And most guys after they
realized she can't leave there and they're like, oh, why you
can't leave us? Like I'm paralyzed.
So the first thing they say, oh,you can't move nothing.
And they're like, she's like, no, I can move my head.
So the next thing instead of being like, Oh, wow, it's been
20 years. You're so resilient.
(29:10):
That was mine. I was like, what the hell?
That's incredible. And because she's a positive
person, these guys, most of themwere like, oh, so you, you can
give me a blowjob. I was like, are you guys kidding
me? Like like like that, That's how
low these these fuckers can go Less so.
And man, it's so discouraging because I, I think the way the,
(29:34):
the mainstream media and movies like push to sex and that like
guys can just treat girls badly,like they're a rag doll is just,
I think that that transform the brains of a lot of a young man.
And nowadays, because I, I see it more in the young man than
(29:54):
the, the, the men are fifty men are 50.
Maybe yes, they want a young girl, but they're not acting
like a creep. That guy that's 24, it's just a
shark the whole time, most of the time.
Where do you think that comes from?
I well here it is. I think it's cause girls
expectations are too high beforewe meet them so he needs to be
(30:18):
this tall and needs to be this nice that he creates a list
before he talks to her. So because of that guys have to
lie. So that's why it's called sell
the dream. They're going to say what needs
to be said to get what they wantbut at the end of everything
when you check out the stats well only 18% of single men are
fucking. One girl knew a month compared
(30:40):
to the 81% of girls single racking up one more dude at
every month. So these guys, most guys have
nothing. One guy had a three between 18
and 30 is a virgin or they have sex in a year.
And so because of all that, you take the food away from a dog
(31:01):
and the only thing the dog wantsand thinks and feels is food.
So I think that that's what created this margin and the
social media and the dating sites it create.
It gave a woman like infinite choice.
And we realized what stats that if you give a girl infinite
choice, she's going to be more and more and more pickier
(31:23):
compared to a guy. He has more choices.
He's just going to take most of them.
It's completely different we we see the other.
So on dating sites, it's proven that girls only like 5 to 10% of
men, while men like 75 to 85% ofthe women.
It's so you're literally need tobe in that top most aren't.
So they need to lie and and so they're all hungry.
(31:45):
So they they they're only one focus minded like this.
I think that's all that combinedher.
How does that one track? Yeah.
How does that one practice conscious touch and how does it
transform intimacy? I want to learn about this.
(32:06):
All right, you can do it right now.
Oh wow I I thought I need a girlfor this.
You start with yourself and you just right now TuneIn to the
feeling of sitting in your chair.
OK, So feel your back against the chair, your butt, your legs.
Fill your arms on the armrest. So just feel, because most of
(32:32):
the time we're not in our bodies, we're just in our eyes
looking at screens. So a lot of people are making
love just with their eyes on their screens, so to speak.
They're not actually in their bodies.
So that seems weird to not Make Love in your body.
But most people's consciousness is just in their heads and in
their genitals when they Make Love.
They're not really feeling everywhere.
(32:54):
So this might seem a little. More true.
That's true after you tell me like a like kill your ass in the
chair, like whatever at the beginning there, but after
you're like fill your your elbows on the on the chair and
your feet on the ground. And when you're like conscious
that your body is like touching and seven different places
(33:14):
something, but you're so like automatic, you don't realize
that. And especially during sex or
with that intimate person, like a touch is is everything.
So be conscious of that touch. Exactly.
So one way tantras are really radical is that you might just
lay with your lover and just focus on those seven places
where you feel your body. My, that's simple and that
(33:38):
genius. Yeah, you're not doing all the
things, you know, you learned all these things, how to get
another person off and sometimesthey work and sometimes they
don't. And you just put that all aside
and you just lay together and maybe just really TuneIn to
what's that like? I've never really felt what
that's like before to just have my phone touched here.
(34:00):
Well, you can have almost have an orgasm if you really TuneIn.
Yeah, I get it. Almost have an orgasm just from
something like that if you just enjoy it and expand how much
you're enjoying. Such a simple thing.
And then let them do it to you. So this is called conscious
touch. So we, we have a whole 2 hour
workshop where we teach people just, you know, just do this.
(34:22):
Just do it to yourself. Just practice feeling it more
deeply. So I used to learn about this
because I used to go for a massage once a week in LA.
They have this really cheap massage.
It's like used to be 25 bucks, now I think it's 40.
But anyway, cheap enough to go every week.
And I just used to practice Tantra by being massaged and
(34:45):
just keep my attention on it. If I start thinking about lunch,
just come back and think about the touch.
Focus on. Did you already have an orgasm
on that table? I didn't cause it wasn't the you
know, I was just trying to trainmyself to be more, more aware of
conscious touch. It probably could have if I
wanted to, but it would have been a little weird.
(35:07):
So so I just practice learning how I just touch.
And this, when you take it to lovemaking, it's total makes it
totally different. And that's Tantra.
Wow, what's your view on a soul mates?
Is there a tantric perspective on finding one, or is that a
myth? That you create your soul mate.
(35:29):
It's not magic. What does that mean?
You create in the. Lab, That means that you have, I
don't want to get too technical,but you have these 7 chakras and
it's like if you match vibrationally with another
person, you'll naturally attractthem.
So we attract who we are. We attract Like if I'm really
(35:51):
still screwed up in my emotions,like we've talked about, like if
I'm still have appealed the factthat my parent, my childhood was
traumatic, I'm gonna attract like you said, some guy who's
very happy to beat me up emotionally.
But if I heal that then and I'm if I heal it in myself, I'm
(36:12):
going to attract a guy who is healed there also.
So automatic, so automatically that when we heal, like we heal
ourselves, so we change our vibration, we're automatically
going to vibe with somebody else.
Yeah, we're not attracted anymore to people who aren't.
Aren't. Yeah.
(36:32):
Why? Yeah, because we see it.
We see it after. Say, well, I'm attracted to bad
boys. It's like, well, if you.
Because you're a bad girl. If you heal your bad girl
illness and that you can still have fun playing at being a bad
girl, but you don't have to be abad person and you won't
suddenly you'll go, you know, I'm not attracting those kind of
(36:52):
guys anymore. I want someone who's gonna love
me. I don't want someone who's gonna
always be threatening to leave. I want someone who's gonna be
here and love me. So as you continue to heal
yourself and raise your vibration, you'll attract
someone else with the higher vibration.
And that's called soul mates. When you get to a high enough
(37:13):
level that you're like both firing on all cylinders, then
you got like the perfect relationship.
So it's something to look forward to and to plan for and
to keep keep in motion about. Or that's all makes sense
because that one, when you starthealing and fixing and building
yourself, well, you realize thatthe people that you're gonna
(37:35):
attract or, or more more similarto you because now not your
expectations, but because you, you were there.
So if that person is not like a ready, like you are to move on
and and you're gonna feel and that person won't be attractive.
So I get it that that that so makes sense that I would have
(37:56):
never thought about that before.Wow.
What are some daily practices? This is for couples.
They're that couples can bring Tondra into their relationship,
even if they're beginners. Well, like I said, you can
practice conscious much. You can do that every day.
You can sit in a YAB Yum position, which is where the,
(38:20):
it's usually the guy, but it, itcan be two guys or two girls
too, but one person, usually theheavier ones, it's like this.
And then the other person sits on top on their lap facing them.
And you can just breathe together or you can Make Love
that way. But that's a way to get your
hearts close and your breathing close.
That's a very beautiful exerciseto do.
(38:41):
My husband and I Make Love everymorning for 15 minutes, which
sounds really weird but it's every.
Not really, not well, not really.
I mean, yeah, I find it normal and it's important that
connection because we're right, right.
When sex starts to leave, well, that relationship just starts in
a why little by little. That's why it transparency, like
(39:02):
you said, it's fucking important.
And the the connection with that, with that person, the sex
or or emotional. We want that's very precious to
us. We consider it sacred and we
wanna make sure that we are witha very intimate with each other
that way every day. Once a while we miss, but
basically that's our that's, we call it our meditation practice
(39:24):
because we're being very meditative and focusing in and
if we start thinking about something else, we try to come
back and be very present with each other.
That keeps our relationship really alive and fresh.
You can do that, you know, and um, you know, we're older.
We're doing that everyday and inthe Dow and Dow is China, people
(39:44):
in their 80s were still making love everyday.
So I don't think we have to thiswhole idea that we're taught
that older people don't have sex.
This is looks very miserable andI don't personally want to live
that kind of life. So I think we should change that
idea that sex isn't for older people because why would you
want to look forward to a futurewhere you don't having sex?
(40:05):
I just think that sounds miserable.
Exactly because the sex is such an extra in life.
But that is so wonderful a feeling and release that like.
Why eliminate that from featuresthat make sense?
Exactly. Is there any taboo subjects in
Tantra that people don't like totalk about?
(40:26):
That's an interesting question. Tandra is actually about
confronting taboos and bringing them out in the open and getting
over your, uh, your squeamishness about it.
So it's like maybe you think it's, for example, when I was
living in the Tantra ashram, thehouse being naked all the time
because we have to get over our squeamishness about it's creepy
(40:47):
to be naked you. Know so so they made you what,
naked run? You just walk around naked and
walk. Around naked OK.
So that you'll get over that taboo of being naked start start
feeling good about your own bodybecause you know what you don't
look like a supermodel. You just have an average body
and you wanna fall in love with your own body and you want to
(41:09):
look at other people how they actually look and say, OK, it's
OK with me. If guys have a little spare
tire, they don't have to be 6 pack abs that normal guys don't
have 6 pack abs. Sorry, I don't mean to insult
anybody, but normal guys don't, you know, and it's like it's OK,
you can still be lovable. So the taboos and Tantra are
basically, we see them. We want to say, do you want to
(41:31):
keep your aversion to that or doyou want to you wanna get over
it? Some people in Tantra do all
kinds of activities, group sex, all kinds of strange things.
I personally, personally have not been into that, but I don't
have any judgment on people who do.
(41:53):
So Tantra is very accepting. What do you think about nudist
camp? That's what that made me think.
It's like, why would people go to camping when everybody's
naked? Would Tantra have something to
do with the origins of this? Because.
I can tell you've never been. And I did until I was eight
(42:16):
years old. My grandparents were bringing me
and I, I was good at Lapitan there.
I don't know how you call that. It's a, it's a metal balls like
this that you got throw with a little red pig there.
I was an expert at that. OK, I don't know about that, but
don't you think it helps you to see all kinds of different
people naked instead of just perfect people?
(42:37):
Well, for me, since I was before8 me, for me, it was just the
normal that everybody was just naked.
The the part that I was getting dressed for and I didn't
understand why the guys they naked is when we were playing
baseball. It's like I didn't watch it.
They just to shake around while I'm just running.
So that's the only time I dressed because it says that
everybody was just so sex wasn'tlike it.
(42:57):
I wasn't looking at girls like Oh my God.
So like it was just like like that was his costume.
I it was so like they normalizedfor me and my grandparents.
It wasn't like, Oh my God, look at this girl, she's my age or
nothing like that at all. Yeah, I think what I think in
(43:17):
places where people are naked together, I think it's not
really all that sexual actually,for most people.
It's just a way to try to, you know, we've all been told that
our bodies are not perfect and we take that into the bedroom
with us. So it interferes with our sex
life. You know, a lot of women you're
going to Make Love with or speakto the guys in the audience or
(43:39):
the lesbians in the audience. You probably know that your
partner doesn't feel good about her body because she's been told
she's not perfect. She's.
Not or she compared herself too much because of magazines.
Society, yeah. Exactly.
Alligator bought herself the guys probably not feeling good
about his body because guys havebeen starting to get a lot of
(44:00):
pressure on that. Maybe they think their Dicks
aren't big enough, or they don'thave abs, or they're not tall
enough or whatever. They're coming too quick.
Coming too quick on the right, the right too much hair or
whatever. So I think when you're if you
have an opportunity to go to like a a place where people are
naked together, like nude beaches are great honor on the
(44:22):
West Coast. We have a lot of them in
California. They're usually secret, but you
could point out pretty easily and you just go and hang out.
It's not about people having group sex or anything.
It's really not that sexy. It's just more people trying to
get a healthier relationship to their own bodies and to other
people's bodies. Why do you think it's secret?
Because too many people would show up or.
(44:43):
They're illegal. I see, I didn't know that well.
It's illegal to be naked in public, so.
Oh yeah, for sure. Maybe that's a good good idea
cause of curbs and. Yeah, people would would abuse.
Yeah. So maybe it's a good idea, but
if it's in a healthy atmosphere,I think it can be good for
people. That's not really shocking.
(45:05):
Since you talked about apps likeElla as by psychedelics before,
how do psychedelics play into Tantra and spiritual
relationships today and chance the experience?
Or is there a risk of using themas a shortcut?
All of that is true. Tantra and psychedelics don't
necessarily have any connection,but I know that sometimes
(45:30):
couples, if they're in couples therapy and MDMA is used, it can
help them create a very powerfulconnection or to rediscover what
it was like when they were in love again.
So psychedelics with MDMA in particular can help people
reconnect because that's the heart it opens.
(45:52):
The heart it opens. Empathy Emotions.
And emotions. And your touch, your touch
feeling is and chance to the highest degree as well.
So it doesn't solve all the relationship problems, but like
all psychedelics, they don't, They don't cure you right away,
but they can be part of the yourgrowth that kind of accelerates
things. How does a Tantra compare to
(46:15):
other spiritual relationship practice?
Uh, like always TA OISE sexuality or the Condron Dalian
energy work? Like.
Yeah, exactly. You did your homework for this.
God damn I take my time. That well, the Dow is it's
(46:38):
pronounced for some reason it's spelled with a T and it's
pronounced with a D So I don't know why the Dow list was from
China and Tantra was from India and moved to Tibet.
And the Daoist has a lot more todo with holding your breath and
doing all kinds of things. Men squeezing to hold their
(47:00):
ejaculation. We, we don't do that in Tantra.
We just, if you man gets close to a Jacqueline and we just
relax and just relax. Not time to ejaculate yet.
You don't need to do any kind ofcounting to 10 or anything.
You just relax your stomach muscles because it's not, you
know, you just want to wait for a while.
But in the Daoism, they have allthese kind of tricks to make
(47:21):
sure that you don't ejaculate and stuff.
They actually don't believe in ejaculation there in the Dallas.
They believe that that it's a longevity principle to not
ejaculate. Actually, hardly ever.
Wow, because I saw another studies that releasing is good.
Like it takes the stress off, it's a stress reliever, so.
(47:44):
Yeah, So it just depends what your personal journey is.
But that was what Dallas was. Kundalini is was a bunch of men
trying to get their sex energy to go up to their brain.
It's kind of out of date now in my opinion because it was just
using women to gain power and, and I think what we're looking
(48:06):
for now amongst people who are interested in growth, personal
growth stuff, I think we're moreinterested in couples and
equality and having a really deep relationship, not in using
someone for our own. Benefit.
Yeah, I think so. So I think it's really a modern
Tantra is not really about usingpeople of your own benefit.
(48:27):
It's about creating the relationship of your dreams.
And most of us, the relationshipof our dreams includes a lot of
great sex. I don't really have a dream to
have a great celibate relationship.
I have a great dream to Make Love with wonderful love with my
husband every morning so. So as a as a final question,
(48:50):
what's the biggest lesson you'velearned in your 30 years of
studying Tantra and the relationships that you wish more
people knew? The biggest?
I don't know. I or some that stand.
Out. Yeah, I think it's a great
question. I have to think about it.
I think the best lesson is don'ttrust what you've been taught.
(49:14):
There we go looking around for yourself because a lot of stuff
they're teaching you is to control you and it's not
necessarily for your own benefit.
So if you are single, really take a look at what they're
teaching you about being single.It's actually guaranteed that
you won't find someone that way,or you'll find a bad
relationship because you're not told to look for someone who's
(49:35):
going to be your best friend. You're being told that being
best friends with someone isn't sexy, it's actually the sexiest
thing. I think so because the best
relationships I had, I I was, she was my best friend.
Like for sure. She was my confidant as much as
my sexual partner for sure. Yeah, so that's what we're
looking for. But they're there, for some
(49:55):
reason, they're telling us the opposite.
And so I would say that's the biggest lesson I learned, is
take a look at what they're teaching you and take advice
from people who have what you want instead of people who are
just spouting off pretending to be experts.
Absolutely help people. Because he questions authority.
(50:18):
Absolutely. I hope people like learned a lot
today. I work and everybody find you
and your socials and work and everybody go buy your your
books. It's kind of hard to miss them
on all the socials with my name.I have a YouTube channel, my
books are on Amazon, so you know, I'd love to connect with
me and I could find out what you're up to also.
(50:40):
Perfect. So thanks everybody for coming
on and have a great weekend.
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