Uncomfortable Truths of Life Traveling the World & the Hidden Gems of Michigan with Amy Piper EP70

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
That's a truth that, you know, if I enjoy doing it, that's what
should matter. Exactly.
That's the win. There's nothing else that should
be the win. If you feel like you're doing
the right thing and you feel like you're accomplishing
something by going with your passions, well, that's the only

(00:21):
thing that you need. And nobody should wait for
validation somewhere else to feel a complete inside.
One of these books that if you call the taxi company and they
give you a car number when they get here, then you look for that
car number and then it's safe. You just don't wanna hail one on

(00:43):
the street because that could bea big mess, so.
Because there are scams that arehappening down there or no, it's
more even the physical side of maybe you're you're in danger.
You, you could be in danger. OK, well.
You know, the drug cartels were out.
And OK. There's these Americans.
Kidnappings were kind of prevalent.

(01:04):
There were a lot of bombings. So it's not the right to mistake
your taxi for another one. Well, you know, even when we
drove in in our van, they had bomb sniffing dogs in mirrors.
They looked underneath the car with a mirror to make sure there
were no bombs that they were letting into the compound.

(01:26):
I wasn't anxious. But then when my next book comes
out and I'm worried how people are going to receive it and did
I write the right thing and did I say the right thing about this
place? Am I being too optimistic or to
negative? You know, it's like, um,
confronting that anxiety and I think if, if you're always

(01:50):
comfortable, you're not growing.Welcome back to the Rumbling Fax

(02:33):
Podcast. You're #1 destination people for
critical thinking that collides with uncomfortable truth.
For real, unapologetic growth. I'm your host, DJ Rhett Sam, a
rapper, speaker, and the founderof a nonprofit called Making
Others Read. I take books that people don't
want anymore and they give them back to the communities because
books changed my life, so might as well change lives of others.

(02:54):
Whether it's through the music or the mic, I'm here to hit you
with raw perspective and unfiltered truth, people and the
kind of conversations that challenge your entire blueprint
of your life. I didn't come here to play it
safe, people. I came here to speak facts.
Every song I release and every guest I bring on, every episode
we drop, it's all about taking off the mask, stepping into the

(03:15):
uncomfortable and helping you level the fuck up.
We're not here chasing surface level answers.
We're diving head first into thechaos, the controversy and the
and the clarity that comes from facing the truth.
This show is for the thinkers, the fighters and the ones
looking for growth. So thank you all for tapping in.
Subscribe to the God damn channel.

(03:36):
And today we we are having our 70th episode of the rumbling
facts podcast. We're droned by an incredible
guest called Amy Piper, a travelexpert who ventured across 46
countries and 45 states. She's a freelance travel writer,
photographer with a passion for luxury and multi generational

(03:57):
travel, and also the author of three books, The Midwest Rd.
Trips Adventures, 100 Things to Do in Lansing Before You Die,
and The Secret Michigan, A guideto the weird, wonderful and
obscure. Amy's Journey Journey has led
her to undiscovered hidden gems in Michigan as well has

(04:18):
experience experiencing fascinating cultures across the
globe through the lens of a truetraveller and food lover
herself. She's here in the Rumbly Fast
podcast to share her stories, insights and lessons she gained
from years of travel. And trust me, you wanna hear
what she has to say. From navigating travels at
navigating challenges on the road to uncovering the secrets

(04:41):
of some of the most unique places that she has visited,
Amy's perspective is one that will inspire you to think
bigger. And maybe travel further.
Welcome to the show, Amy Piper. We are honored to have you on
the Rumbling Fax Podcast. Well, thank you so much for
inviting me. I'm really excited to talk to
your listeners about and share with them my travels.

(05:03):
And First off, Amy, I, I was super pumped to have you here.
And so tell us, how did this whole travel obsession start?
Was there like a single moment or a trip that you were like,
damn, I'm hooked, I wanna see the world.
Oh well, even from a young childmy parents valued travel so they

(05:26):
would. They're my parents idea being a
middle class working class auto worker and a stay at home mom.
They managed to load 5 kids in aOldsmobile D88.
Every. Every summer for two weeks, and

(05:50):
their idea of international travel was to visit Canada and
we traveled to every province that bordered the United States,
plus Nova Scotia. And so that was kind of how
things got started. And then I took a corporate job
and I was in corporate America for 35 years.

(06:11):
Wow. And they sent me all over the
world sometimes on 6 month assignment.
And I was on a six month assignment in Argentina.
And I was really understanding the culture.
I had majored in Spanish and in college and I really was
enjoying my time there. And I said, well, I'd like to

(06:32):
continue to do this. And so finally I took a travel
writing kind of one of those online courses and I noticed
that they had a weekend workshopthat was face to face.
So I did it. And at the end of that they

(06:53):
said, OK, go get published. You have 30 days.
That was the challenge. Well, I'm, I'm always up for a
challenge. And so I went and got an article
published and now I have three books.
I never looked back. Wow.
I've written hundreds of articles.
Now it's crazy how just a littlemoment when we're kid of our

(07:18):
parents or a moment like that that can influence like our
direction forever. Me when I was a kid, my grandma
got me the book of Titanic. It was like the the the 801
truths and lies about the Titanic.
And I was like 11 years old and it changed my life there.
Now everything I see like in a critical perspective, not just

(07:39):
believe everything you said, like really do the research and
it it created who I am today. And it's incredible that that
little moment of them understanding that travel is
quite important to learn other cultures and and experience
life. And you got hooked right away
to. So it's incredible that you
really fell on your lane like you did traveling there has

(08:01):
changed so many people. What about you Was there hitting
the road like shifted the way you see life in a different way
now? I I think so when when you
travel you, you really get outside your comfort zone.

(08:23):
You know, you experience other religions like going to temples.
I was raised Roman Catholic and you have this certain set of
ideas. And then you walk into a temple
and you see people kneeling before Buddha and you go, wow,

(08:43):
that you know, it opens your eyes.
When I went to India and I and Isaw people having to beg for,
for food and that kind of thing.That was long before we had such
a visible issue here in the US and that was just eye opening to

(09:05):
see. Not everybody has what you have.
Exactly. And you know, just different
perspectives on things. And then my opportunity at when
I was working in the corporate job, when you went somewhere for
six months, you really were working with the locals.

(09:25):
So you had an opportunity to seethings that maybe they thought
were odd. Like I remember being in
Argentina and I was showing themon Google Maps where I lived and
the, the neighborhood. And just to kind of get an idea,
hey, this is me. And they're like, well, where

(09:47):
are your fences in your careers around your houses?
And I'm like, we don't have those.
So it, it really was kind of a two way St. of opening peoples
eyes to, you know, what it what it's like somewhere else.
Absolutely. We're so like ingrained in our

(10:09):
own lives lately, different lives.
Like for them you need fences everywhere to protect yourself.
And here it all depends because we got laws and stuff at the
police, but everywhere so and it's crazy when we start
experiencing different cultures,we really realize that, wow,
we're very fortunate to have thefreedom that we have.
But a lot of people take that for granted.

(10:31):
Like you don't hear another country but the US.
I find live people shitting on their own country.
Like fuck do you? And they're living there, but
you're never gonna hear nobody from another country shit on
their country. I'm telling you, because most of
the time that's illegal. You can't just shit on your own
country because you're living init.
But that's I think the like we're we're we're so used to

(10:56):
this high class in a way that we're allowed like to shit on on
the freedom that we have it. I find it incredible.
It did it humble you, you find seeing other countries like
that. Yes, I, I, I, I believe so.
I mean, you really need to watchwhat you say and what you talk

(11:18):
about and what you're sharing because it may give the wrong
impression. When I went to Korea for
business for six months, part ofthat was people coming back to
my country and showing them how we did things in the different
corporation that I worked in. And part of that, you know, I

(11:43):
love to entertain. I, they were, I invited them to
my home and it was a pretty typical middle class home couple
1000 square feet and, you know, just, I don't know, maybe not
typical, but you know, it wasn'ta mansion.
But but then they look at it like, wow, you know.

(12:07):
You made it. Oh, you're like super rich and
you know, just, it's really, it kind of makes you realize, you
know, that you have really a lot, even though you're you
maybe think you don't. Have absolutely makes us realize

(12:28):
a lot of stuff right there. You lived in that experience,
probably in many different cultures that tell us what's one
piece of wisdom or Easter egg you found and picked up from
from people you met in your travels that you'll never
forget. OHP that's a hard one for sure.

(12:48):
You know, one of the things thatit wasn't necessarily from
overseas, but there's a a Blogger who talks about that if
you she, she always says the little thing you do for someone
else may be the biggest thing that they need today and.

(13:12):
That is solid. She just like and then she'll
kind of end with now go crush your day and she's really
building a network. She is the co-owner Sarah
Browers of the Midwest Travel Network, and she is out there
building connections between destinations and bloggers and

(13:36):
travel writers. But she's also encouraging
people, as is another Blogger, Janelle Gay.
It's not competition, it's collaboration.
And there's plenty to do for everyone.
And so you need to collaborate. And that's actually how I got my
first book was through the wholecollaboration thing.

(14:00):
I wrote 1 chapter in a book called The Midwest Travel
Adventures. And that could have been very
competitive. She could have, you know, tried
to write all these books herself.
But like, no, we're, we're gonnacollaborate.
Everybody's gonna write a chapter.
You have to live in that state. And So what we came out with is

(14:21):
now in a second edition and it'sbeen a best selling book on
Amazon for a while. I don't know if it is today, but
it has been in the past. Wow, that's quite awesome you
you seen the world an experienceso much.
How does it all come together for your creativity?

(14:44):
And do you get inspired by visiting new new places?
Is there something that makes you tell yourself all I need to
visit this place in particular as well?
Is there something that makes me?
Well, I read a lot of travel blogs and that kind of thing.
So yes, getting inspiration for from other people's experiences

(15:11):
is part of it. But also like recently I went to
Africa and and it was a, it was a four country tour and I didn't
do a deep dive into everything we were going to do.
I was self funding it. It's like I just want to go and

(15:33):
experience it. And I knew at a general level
what we were doing. And then we ended up going to
this place in South Africa called Kagama Nature Preserve.
And we slept in caves. There was glamping.

(15:54):
I mean, it was. There were real beds and real
plumbing, but nonetheless, we slept in caves.
Wow. So just kind of trusting the
tour that you select and and then just kind of going for the
experience. And I mean, we were off grid you

(16:17):
they had so they were solar powered.
So there was a whole lot of sustainability and that kind of
thing. And there were lots of
activities on the nature preserve or reserve, but, you
know, you were miles down, 30 some miles and bumpy roads
together. So it wasn't like, ohhh, we're

(16:39):
just gonna, you know, hop out and go to the store if we forgot
something. Do you think that when you see
other countries like that, do you, do you see that most people
like help each other out or it'smore like everybody fend for
themselves? You you you find when you see
other third world countries likethat.

(17:01):
I think there's a sense of community in many places.
See, a lot of people here would think that they're all fighting
for survival, like each their own.
But actually what I saw too is more and more that the the, the
country is financially rough while people to the contrary

(17:21):
help each other and build a community to work together.
And that is beautiful that you saw that as well and.
I think it's true. I can't think of any specific
examples, but yeah, it's it is certainly true.
There's so many, but the, the recent trip to I was South

(17:46):
Africa, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Botswana.
And so, you know, even at my age, I'm almost 70, I'm
constantly looking for that first time experience like, oh,
this is the first time at 69 I've had a helicopter ride.

(18:06):
And one of my taglines is when was the last time you did
something for the first time? I like, I like, I like that one
because we gotta live in the uncomfortable in a way there,
because if you stay in your comfort zone all your life,
well, you're probably not gonna be happy.
It is by pushing a bit the boundaries of of your curiosity

(18:27):
and everything that really makesus see different cultures, live
different things and grow as a human being ourselves.
Most people travel just for for leisure, but I I know it's way
deeper for you. How has traveling shaped your
personal life? And maybe even though in a way
that you look at the world in a bigger sense now.

(18:50):
Well, um, it shaped my personal life from the fact that I had
one child and I, I married and these 35 years of corporate
travel. I mean, sometimes I was gone for

(19:11):
six months at a time and maybe my family wasn't with me.
So, you know, maybe I would comehome or they would come there,
but we were still distance for extended periods of time.
And it was, it was kind of interesting on my first
international trip to South Korea, it was going to be 6

(19:34):
months. And my coworker said, well, I
could never do that. I have kids.
And it's like I have kids too. But you need to see what the
benefits are and how those outweigh the, you know, the
distance. Not I'm apart, yeah.
Yeah, the time apart so, So my daughter, it was quite funny.

(20:01):
She was in middle school and people, the teacher said, well,
where are you going to spend your summer vacation?
And she says, oh, I'm going to Seoul, South Korea.
Ask, said. Oh, is that near Ohio?
Wow. You know, so you know, yes, I

(20:26):
was gone. But at in her early 20s, she has
been to 05 continents. Well, she still has to get
Australia and Antarctica, but you know.
There are some plus and negativefor for from your parents, like
traveling a lot. You can travel a lot yourself

(20:46):
and learn a lot there for sure. So there's a give and take it
and and everything. I gotta ask that you you visited
a bull Bogota and how was it? Was it down there?
Can you walk us through that dayand what happened?
Yeah. Um, Bogota, Colombia in 2003 was

(21:09):
quite dangerous. They were my manager did not
want to send me. She did not, she said I do not
want to send a woman. And we were going into an
account for IT corporation and we were doing evaluations.

(21:29):
And so they were sending, I think there were three of us and
we were evaluating the contract,the project management systems,
which that was my job and the technical systems which was
another guy's job. And so we were told do not take
public transportation. They gave us the driver in a

(21:52):
van. We were to go with that person
at all times. Well, it turned out that it was
very stressful time for the account because here they have
these people from corporate coming in and evaluating their
projects and what are they doingand telling them how to change.
And so it was pretty stressful and we were working late and the

(22:16):
account manager forgot to send back the car and driver or the
van driver. And so one of the men on our
team was, um, originally from Venezuela.
So his Spanish was very good andhe had been working throughout
the day with different people. So he started calling them

(22:38):
saying, you know, we don't have our driver, we can't get ahold
of anybody. It's 11:00 at night.
No, it's not urgent yet. We still have time.
And so they were giving different ideas and they kind of
fell through as we went through the evening and into midnight,

(22:58):
1:00, to the point where he saidto me, because I was the only
woman. Well, what do you think?
Should I call the hotel? I said, yeah, I read in one of
the books, called the hotel, seeif they can send a shuttle that
fell through. It was too late, 1:00 in the

(23:19):
morning, no ones available. OK, what do you think?
If we sleep here or we call a taxi?
And I said, well, we have a presentation to the client in
the morning. I'm not sure we want to look
like we slept on the floor in the conference for sure.
With the still the floor tile onthe face there.

(23:39):
Yeah, or the carpet impression. So I said, well, I said I read
in one of these books that if you call the taxi company and
they give you a car number when they get here, then you look for
that car number and then it's safe.

(23:59):
You just don't want to hail one on the street because that could
be a big mess so. Because there are scams that are
happening down there or no, it'smore even the physical side of
maybe you're you're in danger. You, you could be in danger.
OK, well. You know, the drug cartels were
out. And OK.
There's these Americans. Kidnappings were kind of

(24:21):
prevalent. There were a lot of bombings.
So it's not the right thing to do.
Mistake your taxi for another one.
Yeah, well, you know, even when we drove in in our van, they had
bomb sniffing dogs in mirrors. They looked underneath the car
with a mirror to make sure therewere no bombs that they were

(24:42):
letting into the compound. And then the dog sniffed.
And so that's how we got to workeveryday.
So there had been a bombing downthe street at one of the upper
class athletic clubs. And I mean, yeah, looked just
like Oklahoma City that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is a

(25:04):
crazy image. Yeah, for sure.
So anyway, so the man who was from Venezuela whose Spanish was
really good called got a taxi number the taxis on its way.
OK, let's go down the elevator. OK to get down the elevator you
needed a key. We did not have a key to go nine

(25:27):
step floors flights down the down the stops and so or I mean,
we didn't have an elevator key, so we had to use the stairs,
which was nine flights up. So they said, well, can you walk
down? And I said, yeah, if you carry

(25:48):
my bag, I can make it. I have some mobility issues but
I was better in those days and so we're going down so it's OK.
So we start down the stairs and we get near the lobby.
We have like 1 flight to go and all of a sudden we hear a bunch

(26:10):
of barking and barking barking, barking.
Now it's 1-2 in the morning and we found out subsequently that
those bomb sniffing dogs that sniffed our van in the morning
were let loose between the floors so that if anyone was in
there randomly they would be there and alert people.

(26:35):
So. Wow.
We get to the to the main floor and I open the door to go into
the lobby and by two working colleagues were behind me and I
slammed the door because I was afraid of the German shepherds

(26:56):
barking. And they were like, let us.
And so they came in. We slammed the door.
The dogs are outside the door barking, barking.
We're in the lobby, just standing there.
We can see our taxi, but we can't just walk out.
So we're like, OK, now what do we do?
I mean, we're almost there. But.

(27:19):
And so it turns out that the security guy, of course heard
the dogs and he came up to investigate and found out it was
just a bunch of us gringos trying to get out.
And so he tied the dog up finally, and we went out and got

(27:41):
in the taxi and rode home. But that was a very scary
experience because you didn't know if they were gonna bite
you, not bite you. What was really going to happen?
And during that day, since therewas a bombing at the other
place, like you guys must have started thinking like, in your

(28:02):
head, like, like, why are we in this country, like right now?
Because literally this is war there.
There's bombs going down a couple blocks away, yeah.
Well, it had been, you know, maybe a week or two since the
bombing. But still, but still you're
you're into action there compared to the US or.
Yeah, yeah. Oh my.

(28:23):
Geez. Yeah.
And it, you know, I really wanted to go because as I said,
I was a Spanish literature majorin college.
And so I just really wanted to get a chance to go to South
America. And, and I wasn't sorry I went,
I mean it. But there was a heightened sense

(28:46):
of danger there. But the but it was more, it
wasn't like a war bombing, but it was like the drug Lords and
people, you know, upset about those that had and those that
had not. And so they were really
attacking people who apparently had money.
And German shepherds are at least £100 normally, so those

(29:10):
are big, big dogs. They were very scary dogs.
For sure, people think that traveling is only about fun and
games, but it can get really tough.
Really. What pushes you to keep keep
pushing through those sometimes rough times?
What's the fuel that motivates you to be like, OK, let's take

(29:32):
another light no matter what. Almost.
Ohk, that's a good question. It's the excitement of it.
I. Mean really.
It's like I, I wouldn't say I'm an adrenaline junkie.
I have mobility issues. I'm not gonna be out hiking and
Paris sailing. And, you know, yeah, I could do

(29:55):
those things. But it's, it's the experiences,
the connection with the people. I I had a gift for foreign
languages. I've studied Spanish, French,
Chinese, Italian, so I've I havethat ability to connect to the

(30:17):
people with the language and just being able to go and
immerse myself in, in the language and the culture and do
things for the first time still at my age.
It's, you know, it. The alternative is my mother and
my age was pretty much homebound.

(30:37):
She also had the similar mobility issues and she didn't
leave the house. And I'm like, why?
You know, it's like, and, and I didn't want to be that.
And, you know, I felt like it was kind of like just sitting
around waiting to die and. I completely understand that

(30:58):
feeling for sure, yeah. So, you know, getting out and
and exploring and keep going. I mean, yeah, it's tiring,
especially if you're a content creator or a writer.
I mean, people see the glamorousside of it on the social media,
but they don't see a lot of the problems and issues and that

(31:22):
kind of thing. And so, you know, I should
probably share some of that more, but I don't, you know,
like, OK, I missed my flight because the wheelchair guy
didn't get me there. You know, he was messing around
or whatever, you know, But I don't want to tell those

(31:43):
stories. I want to tell the positive
stories. They're inspiring ones, yeah.
Yeah. Because you can talk about the
others for sure. But by doing that, sometimes it
would scare other people. You're OK.
Yeah. If she had a rough time.
Yeah. But she's accumulating so many
good times and so much knowledgethroughout that that is worth

(32:04):
everything of the rough times for sure.
And I think that's another part of the motivation is the
learning that you continue to learn and see.
I mean, you're out of school foryears and years and years, but
the learning doesn't stop. My PhD is an instructional
design from the College of Education.

(32:25):
So I value learning and value getting more information.
And lots of times it's just surprising.
You know, I just went to Tucson and I ate in a restaurant that
made the first chimichanga. You know, it's just, you know,
that. Oh, I didn't know they were

(32:45):
invented here. I mean, you would have thought
it was a Mexico so. So I I have a a moment of
critical thinking segment. So I'm gonna ask you like a 5
questions that maybe gonna push your mind to think a bit further
and some of your answers as they're freaking.
As a frequent traveler, you musthave some difficult decision.

(33:10):
What's one of the most crucial decisions you ever had to made?
OHS geez. Um, I would say, um, you know,
sometimes it's like when something is a snafu, like I had

(33:30):
the wrong visa for Paraguay. Does that mean that I don't go
to Brazil? I was going to, you know, does
it mean I give up the whole experience or do I problem solve
and it's just how defeated am I going to be here?
I was in Argentina and I wanted to go to Brazil.
I needed a new, I needed a Brazilian visa.

(33:52):
I got a Brazilian visa, but the person who was the secretary who
was had offered to plan my trip.She said, well, you can go
through Paraguay and get to Brazil on a bus and it's cheaper
after you fly into Paraguay. I said, OK, great, let's do

(34:13):
that. Nobody said.
And she didn't know because she was an Argentinian citizen that
Americans need visas for Paraguay.
And so I didn't have a Paraguay visa and, and so I went to the
airport and they wouldn't let meboard the plane.

(34:34):
So it's like, OK, do I give up? Go.
And go back home right there. And and do I never go there or
you know, here I am this close and so that I was going for a
weekend and so that weekend I didn't go.
But then I went back and figuredit out and a couple weekends

(34:56):
later I got a different flight it directly into Brazil at a
higher cost and. But you got there.
And I went and I went to Iguazu Falls and I saw it from the
Argentinian side in the Brazilian side.
So I mean, I, I got to do it, but I could have given up.

(35:17):
And there's a lot of times wherethings are standing in your way
and you might be tempted to say,oh, it wasn't meant to be.
Exactly. And.
I feel that's a lazy way out, excepting the accepting that
defeat there because you're right at that wall or you're
right beside us. So might as well take a few more

(35:38):
days there, figure out your stuff to go in there.
Because how many times in your life are you gonna be this close
from that part of the world thatyou wanna go to?
And, and what's 1 of the greatest lessons you you ever
learned in your life or in your career that you still apply
today? I think the idea that with the
right mindset you can do anything.

(35:59):
I mean, I think, you know, as asa middle class, blue collar
raised young girl in the 1960s, you know, it seemed like maybe
opportunities weren't going to be there.

(36:21):
But I OK, so you just getting out there and talking to people
and telling people your dreams and what you want to do, put it
out in the air, get it out there.
Don't keep it a secret because you never know who knows
somebody who will say, oh, I need this.

(36:43):
And oh, that guy told me that this woman wants to do this.
And so just putting it out in the air and talking to people
and makes that happen. I mean, absolutely.
If I had not talked about my dreams constantly to anybody who

(37:03):
would listen, I don't think I would be anywhere near where
I've been today. Absolutely.
I think that that's a great point.
Can you share an instance where your intuition or gut feeling
led you to make a decision in particular that changed
everything? Decision, Um, well, the whole

(37:25):
thing in going to Argentina, I was finishing up a, a project
that I had been training projectmanagers and one of the
executives, umm, he was coming to be a graduation speaker.
And in the parking lot he said, OK, when are you gonna get a

(37:46):
real job? Yeah, lots of times people say,
well, trainers aren't real real.I said, well this is finished,
I'm looking for something. And he said, well, would you
drive to Detroit? And I said, oh, I, I already did
that. I, I've been doing that.
I did that for a while. And he said, well, um, I said,

(38:09):
do you have anything overseas? And he said, well, I have a need
for a leader in Argentina. And I said great.
And just like, on a whim, that was kind of it.
Like, oh, yeah, OK, yeah, Got inmy car.
He got in his car and we both drove to the luncheon that I was

(38:30):
hosting. And at that point I had called
my husband and said, what do youthink?
Six months in Argentina, he he, the executive got on his phone
and called his client and said, I think I have somebody.
What do you think? And by the time we made it

(38:52):
across town, it was a done deal.He called me over at the
reception and said I talked to Fernando and he said great.
And so it was like done. And I hadn't even asked my
manager. So I and not a while you already
had that plan. We're going.
Everything was settled. Just like if you tell people

(39:15):
yeah, or, or sometimes your reputation and then it just
happens and there's some people think they have to plan and plan
and plan and plan. And I wasn't like sometimes I
would. I remember vividly one time
coming back from vacation and mymanager said to me, oh, can you

(39:39):
be in Washington, DC in the morning?
OK, let me hang up. I gotta get travel plans and
approval and get packed. I mean, you, you just had to be
ready. And I think you're God of just
saying yes. You're probably you're probably
the kind of person that always has a travel bag ready to go.

(40:01):
I am I. Am not for sure if there's an
apocalypse, you're the first oneout.
I got my go bag. What's an example of a situation
where thinking outside the box helped you solve a problem?
Or a or literally you saw somebody thinking out the box
and you were like, OK, that's quite.

(40:22):
Good. I might have one, but it might
not be coming to mine. But another thing that's
trusting your instincts that I can go is, is back to my first
book. Woman called me The Who I knew
and she said someone's going to call you.
Just say yes. And I'm like, OK, so a little

(40:47):
bit later, a woman called me, and before she even got anything
out of her mouth, I said yes, whatever.
Yes, I'm supposed to say yes. And it turned out to be writing
the chapter of the Michigan chapter and the Midwest Road
Trip Adventures, which was my first book.

(41:09):
So that's kind of trusting your gut and trusting.
Person makes me think a bit about the the movie yes man that
he he starts to say yes to to everything.
Well, we did. We shouldn't say yes to
everything, but saying yes to a lot of stuff like really makes
us learn and get it into our uncomfortable zone that like we
talked about earlier, now that I've heard some of the stories

(41:33):
of like the dogs running after you, what's an incredible moment
that you've had that you still laugh about today?
Is there something that pops? Up.
Oh, I know one. Um, I like to think that my
Spanish is pretty good, but there are two words, one is

(41:56):
Alfombra and one is El Moana, OK, And one means pillow and one
means rug in Spanish. Well, I had my own pillow for
some reason in Argentina and I don't usually do that and I'm
not sure why I did that. But when I would go away on the
weekends, I would check out of my room.

(42:19):
So like the company would then pay for my weekend room cause
they wouldn't pay for 2 and so Iwould give the bellman my extra
luggage and my pillow. Well I asked him in Spanish what
I thought was to he he brought my luggage and I said well do

(42:42):
you have my pillow? So I thought he came back a bit
later after looking and looking and he finally switches to
English and he goes, ma'am, I can't find your rug anywhere.
And so it turns out that I was using the wrong word for pillow

(43:03):
word rug. And I said no, no, no, I'm
trying to find my pillow. Did they find it?
Actually, yes. Once he knew he was looking for
it, no problem. You need to know where you're
looking for to find out for sure.
It's crazy how how just that little difference in Word like
it makes it makes them up for sure there because it's another

(43:25):
object that he's looking for right there.
Very funny. And you're not afraid to dive
deep and take risks. What's been one of the biggest
risk in your travels? And did it pay off?
Was it worth it? Oh, um, I would say going on a

(43:47):
10 day safari to Tanzania felt like a huge risk.
I mean, you know, I, I had neverbeen to Africa before.
I felt I, I, I had never been with this Tour Company before.

(44:09):
I knew their reputation, but I still, you know, I was, it was a
lot of money. I was self paying and when I
talk about self pay, many times travel writers are hosted at
different places and so you don't always have to pay for
everything. But this Africa trip was a huge

(44:31):
amount of money and I felt like it was like, will it be worth
the money that I'm paying? I'm taking money from the family
to do this with their support but I came back with over 8000
pictures. It was amazing.

(44:54):
It really opened my eyes and I, I couldn't wait to go back, to
go back to Africa in general. And I guess one thing I learned,
I'm often afraid to go back to aplace that I really loved a

(45:14):
second time. To to not love it as much.
To have not as good as of an experience.
And like I got my travel writingcareer started at that workshop
in New Orleans. And I'm going back again this
fall. And I haven't been back since

(45:34):
2016 because in part, I'm afraid.
There are so many stories there,but I don't want to ruin the
memories that I have from that. So that's very that's, that's I
think it's a big risk to go backto someplace the second time.

(45:56):
Absolutely, because if you had alike an amazing time and a
unique time that you're never gonna forget, like you know that
it won't be what it was. So for sure it's gonna be under.
So might as well not even touch it.
I completely understand. You yeah, I mean, especially,
you know, I don't think of any trip typically is once in a

(46:18):
lifetime because as a travel writer, you never know when an
opportunity will come. But again, I think it's a big
risk to to go back. What's some of the most
interesting people that you havemet and why did they leave us
such an impact on you? Oh Gee, so many people I I met a

(46:43):
woman on a tour. My latest trip to Africa and it
was interesting. Um, she had been in a gay
marriage and her partner had passed away.

(47:05):
And so she went through the process and I didn't even know
you could do this of composting there.
You know, you can cremate, you can do many different things.
But she was in the Pacific Northwest, and so there was this
composting. And so during this trip to

(47:30):
Africa, she came with the remains, partial remains, and
was scattering her partner around the world, around Africa.
And, and it was just the, you know, to hear the connection

(47:52):
that they had and it was just you, you remembered that and
just how she was trying to remember her.
And she would have. I wasn't invited, but she would
invite different people with herat different places to do these

(48:14):
little, I would assume, ceremonies.
They were very quick. But anyway, so that really
reminded hung with me that somebody would be doing that.
And so they put the person in compost to to like like like

(48:36):
create life out of a tree or something after.
Yeah. Well, actually they did.
They do they take, I mean, I guess it, from what I
understand, it makes many yards of dirt.
And so then they do plan a tree with some of them in this place,
wherever it is, and I think it'sin the Pacific Northwest.

(48:58):
But then they give you some remains like they do in
cremation, and some people choose to keep them on the
mantle and some people scatter them.
And so she was scattering them, you know, around.
I find that beautiful instead ofcremating cause the cremating,
let's not kid ourselves. You're burning something like

(49:20):
you're destroying something forever.
But like that, like that person that had somebody sold clothes.
Well could put that that all in the plant or in the tree and
literally feel that that person is in that tree or or that is
the light that is give it back. And I find that very beautiful.
I didn't think we could do that as.

(49:41):
Well, I didn't either. I was, I was shocked.
In a good way. Yeah.
I mean, you know, and, but that just really stuck with me.
Another person there, there was a very, very young leader that
when I was in Argentina, I keep going back to Argentina, I'm

(50:03):
sorry, because there's so many places, but he had, he was very
young, not even as old as some of the people on his team, but
they so respected him. He was such a people person that
he was able to accomplish so much with so little manpower

(50:27):
because the people wanted to work for him.
And I think, you know, as as I look back on corporate America,
I kind of gave me a lot of greatexperiences, but the sacrifices
that I made, I sometimes question, was that the right

(50:48):
decision you? Know I, I think a lot of people
deal with that feeling of knowing should I done things
different? Is it bad by sacrificing this
for that in life? And I think everybody goes to
that ringer rethink about those kinds of stuff, no matter no

(51:08):
matter what they are travelling forced you to probably face some
of your fears. What's a fear that you had that
you had to overcome on the road?One of them is the fear of
heights, and I'm afraid of heights a lot.

(51:30):
And this last trip had a helicopter ride over Robin
Island in South Africa, where Nelson Mandela was kept.
And, you know, I was going over Table Mountain and the whole Bay
Area. And, you know, I debated, am I

(51:52):
gonna chicken out of this one oram I gonna do it?
And you know, I just, I, I finally said to myself, look,
people do this all the time. Yes, there are crashes, but
you've lived almost 70 years, you're going to go soon anyway,
so you might as well go. And and how was it?

(52:16):
Because it's completely different than a plane.
Because a plane like at your, you feel like you're jammed in,
in a can, but I've been in a, ina helicopter and it's literally
a glass window and you're right beside it and you're like, God
damn. And what I did the tour Of
Montreal, That's what I did in the helicopter And what the
helicopter has turned like this.I'm literally my, my, my, my

(52:38):
shoulders against the door that just can open in my head.
And I'm like, wow, this is something else.
So how was your experience in that era while seeing the ground
so far? Well, you know, it's it turned
out I ended up sitting in the back seat.
So I started in the front, but then balancing and there this

(53:00):
was like a, I don't know, six person, four person.
So it was fairly there were quite there were it wasn't just
two people. And so, you know, to balance
everything out, I ended up goingfrom the front to the back in in
the back while I could still seeeverything.
And if we would have went down, but at least it didn't feel like

(53:23):
I was gonna fall out the door. So that was good.
But we were up there and it was like 1/2 an hour flight and we
were up there and time passed soquickly.
Yeah. And I wasn't keeping an eye on
the time. And we circled back around and
they started going down. And I got really afraid at that

(53:46):
point because I'm like, what theheck, Why are we going down?
And then I realized. It was.
Over and we were. Same here.
What I did the, the tour Of Montreal, like there, there were
like, oh, it's this much money for just the, the tour of La Ron
and Montrell or you pay a littlebit more and you do the whole
island. And my stepfather was like, man,

(54:07):
we're gonna see the whole island, might as well be there.
And it passed so fast. There was like 30 minutes as
well as two, but like, it passedlike 5 minutes.
That's how quick it was. And me too.
I was wondering why we're going down there like, oh, because
we're back at Laconia. So we're gonna land.
I'm like, wow. So that was 30 minutes.
I'm like, wow, because it is such an experience that most

(54:28):
people are never gonna live because it's really not an
airplane ride. It's completely, completely
different. It is, it is.
But yeah, so I I think I would do it again.
That's great at least. At least you conquered it.
I'm proud of you. We're going to Hawaii in a
couple of weeks, 2 1/2 weeks. I'm taking the whole family.

(54:50):
My daughter's turning 40 and we're we're going for her 40th
birthday but it'll be before birthday and I'm thinking would
that be something we might do? So we'll see.
So, so we're here in the uncomfortable truth section.
I'm going to ask you a couple ofquestions and we're going to see

(55:12):
where this goes. What's the difficult truth that
you had to face about nature of your work and that most people
probably don't understand? For everything that's comes to
you, you sacrifice something. It's like it's not all it's not

(55:32):
all the good things. Sometimes it's, you know, you
gave up the family reunion or the a significant birthday or
you just couldn't be there to someones funeral because you
were around somewhere else. And so you miss a lot of family

(55:57):
connections and actually friend connections.
Like when I in my old neighborhood, you know, there
were a lot of card parties and different kinds of things.
But when you say bye for six months, you know, and then it,

(56:18):
well, we didn't know if you would be here or not.
So you kind of find yourself notas connected and not as invited
because, Oh well, we didn't knowif you would.
Be become that person, a part ofthe crew, like being apart of
the group. They're literally because you're
traveling and you're doing stufflike that.

(56:39):
What's the hardest truth you realized in your career in life?
Hardest truth in your career in life?
Or life, yeah. Or Life.
OK, So I would say one thing is you need as a person to take

(57:02):
stock of your impact on other people's lives because I didn't
really realize a lot of things that I was doing, how it
impacted other people. I was a leader in corporate
America and it was not until I had ovarian cancer in 1999.

(57:26):
And it wasn't until um, I, you know, faced this passable
mortality that people started coming to me and telling me how
I impacted their life and how one small thing that I did maybe

(57:46):
usually good, but now I can think in the, in some things
that were probably not intentionally bad, but they
impacted peoples lives, you know, projects you were
assigning people to. And you know, you have this, you
know, mindset is a corporate leader.

(58:07):
You know, you're just thinking, how do I get the project done?
How do I do this? Yeah.
And you're not thinking about emotions.
You're talking about like, causewhat we think about in that
moment is like a, the, what you're doing like, like the
success of something. You're not thinking of the
emotions of that person getting told this.
Right, right. And, you know, I, I would try to

(58:28):
say this looks like it would work for you because, you know,
maybe it's closer to home, maybeit's this, maybe it's that.
But, you know, sometimes your thoughts in aren't really in
line with what they're thinking and what they're wanting to go.

(58:48):
So even though you may have goodintentions, you really need to,
you know, talk it through with people.
And, and that kind of thing is aleader, but it doesn't even have
to be in a leadership position. It can be as simple as, oh, the
guy in front of you doesn't quite have enough cash to pay
for his groceries and he needs acouple of extra dollars and

(59:12):
they're putting something back, you know?
Oh, let me just take care of that you.
Know, I mean a lot of people don't realize that just a little
message to to somebody like could change the whole day of
somebody just treating somebody right.
Every time I go to the store andI keep the door open for the

(59:32):
next person or whatever that I'll thank you Matt.
It's the least somebody could dofor another because life is hard
for everybody in life there. And if we can just put our hand
down and maybe help somebody because everything has an
impact. Words have an impact, numbers
have impact, colours have impact.
So a lot of people like never think about the exterior of the

(59:55):
impact of our words and our actions.
And that that is so true that that's a hard truth to realize
when you're like, damn, maybe that bothered him of me giving
him that that job or or saying that in particular those words I
chose maybe weren't perfect for him because he took it badly
there something. Around the world that no one

(01:00:17):
seems full fully willing to confront.
Is there something that you realize that most people like
don't confront and and life? I think especially what I see in
the younger generation is a lot of anxiety and, you know, trying

(01:00:40):
to work through that. I mean, you know, as I, as I
watch like my granddaughter or daughter and you know, they are
anxious about stuff. And I kind of think, well, I, I
wasn't anxious. But then when my next book comes
out and I'm worried how people are going to receive it.

(01:01:03):
And did I write the right thing?And did I say the right thing
about this place? Am I being too optimistic or to
negative? You know, it's like confronting
that anxiety. And I think if if you're always
comfortable, you're not growing.That is, that is so true.

(01:01:27):
And now what's on uncomfortable truth that you had to accept
about the the way success or happiness is really achieved?
OHS being in the corporate grindstone or whatever, you
know, to me, success was the money, the money, the money.
What did I get the raise? Did I get the bonus?
Did I get the promotion? You know, did I what?

(01:01:49):
You know, what did I get the good assignment?
You know, did I get the award? And you know, there are days
when I go, Gee, you know, if my book or my blog or this or that
would only win an award, you know, then I would feel X or Y.
And it's like, you know, I that's a truth that, you know,

(01:02:17):
if I enjoy doing it, that's whatshould matter.
Exactly. That's the win.
There's nothing else that shouldbe the win.
If you feel like you're doing the right thing and you feel
like you're accomplishing something by going with your
passions, well, that's the only thing that you need.
Nobody should wait for validation somewhere else to
feel complete inside. Absolutely.

(01:02:41):
That's absolutely. Like I, I look at my blog and
you know, I haven't monetized itmuch or any of those things.
You know, I don't have ads and you know, it cost me money to
do. And, but the fact of the matter
is I'm retired from my job by myday job, so to speak.

(01:03:06):
And I'm doing this because I love to do it.
And if I had a different hobby that didn't make money, would I,
you know, be happy or would I feel like it was a success?
Absolutely. So I just kind of am trying to

(01:03:27):
detach myself from that and to just, um, enjoy doing it.
Absolutely. And what's the most
uncomfortable moral or dilemma that you had to face in your
career? Did you have any?
Oh, probably many. Many, many, many, you know, I

(01:03:54):
think the most uncomfortable I was running a training program
for a group of technical guys that were becoming project
managers and we selected, it wasreally up to me.
We, we selected, I don't know about 2025 people, but the deal

(01:04:16):
was we have, you have to commit.You're gonna be here from this
date to this date and your committee, because the program
is gonna totally reengineer you from a technical person to a
project management person. And as much as I value travel, a

(01:04:40):
guy came to me and said he had achance to ride in the Lance
Armstrong race or something. You know, a big ride and big
name and that kind of thing. And it was a big dilemma for me
to stick to my guns because I wanted to say yes.

(01:05:03):
But then that isn't fair to all the other guys and gals that had
to say no to maybe smaller things.
But you know, I mean, there was no way for him to go and no one
notice. You know, I mean, he's not here
for a week. What happened to him?

(01:05:25):
And I thought you said we had tocommit.
So you. Know you guys show example in
the way? You know, and it was just like,
you know, do what you want. No hard feelings.
But I have to stick to my, my, my guns, so to speak, for sure.
And say if you want to do that, then you can't continue in the

(01:05:49):
program. It's just, you know, and that
that was a big dilemma for me. Have a hard time not helping
people do what they want to do. Yeah, you seem like a good
hearted person that would have trouble like saying note to
somebody for sure what's a mistake you made in your life or
your career that you did definitely didn't repeat.

(01:06:12):
Oh, I would say didn't repeat. Well, I don't know that I didn't
repeat that. I mean, I think it's a mistake
to to, and this may seem contradictory before to some

(01:06:33):
other things I've said, but I think it's a mistake to try and
do it all. I have so many opportunities
that come and I hate to say no and I feel guilty sometimes
about saying no. But you're not an octopus and

(01:06:57):
you can't do everything for sure.
Yeah, and that's what I'm, I'm really starting to to realize is
that you can't like I went to Africa, came back on
Thanksgiving Day and three days later went to Turks and Caicos.
I, I, it, they were all great trips, but I probably should

(01:07:21):
have said no to the Turks and Caicos offer, not because it
wasn't wonderful, but there was,you know.
Getting pulled from different directions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just, you're, you can't
schedule yourself so tight that you don't have time.

(01:07:42):
Because the hardest thing about being a travel writer is, um, to
write while you're traveling. It's and and appreciate the
travel at the same time. Right.
You almost, you almost can't easily write while you're
traveling. Yes, you can take notes, but to

(01:08:03):
sit down after a long day and try and write anything more than
the notes that you took and and and it it it's impossible.
I found it impossible. I feel like I that's one code
that I think I could that could really be something if I could

(01:08:27):
figure out how to create a combination travel writer.
Hmm, all at the same time? Because I'm sure it's quite hard
to be in that moment when you'retrying to write about it at the
same time. Like how can you appreciate that
very second, the present moment when you're trying to explain
the story as well at the same time.

(01:08:48):
So I think just taking notes andlooking at back after when you
come back is the best way only because like you could maybe
write well, but you're never going to appreciate the moment
that you're there to the highestdegree.
It's like people that go to a concert, but they really live
the concert like this on their phone and they're just living
out. Well, it's almost the same
thing. If if you're on your book

(01:09:10):
writing what you're living rightthere, well, maybe you're not
going to experience the culture and the moment like you should.
So I heard between the branches,if we're looking for Michigan
secret hidden gems or Easter eggs, you're the person to talk
to. So talk to us.

(01:09:31):
What has people in Michigan not realize about that beautiful
place? Oh, Gee, there are so many.
So one place I always like to mention that's kind of maybe not
so much a hidden gem, but it's under like nobody writes about
it. Nobody really talks about it is

(01:09:54):
Indian River, MI. It's 30 miles South of the
Mackinac Bridge. It's significantly cheaper to
stay at than Mackinaw City or St.
Ignace. Many people, if they're going to
Mackinac, Thailand or any place will go to Mackinaw City and
they'll make their overnights intheir base camp, Mackinaw City.

(01:10:18):
But in the summer that can be 250 to $300.00 a night.
And I'm talking not the Ritz Carlton.
I'm talking a Holiday Inn Express.
Yeah, it's, it's expensive, but if you stay 30 miles South, you

(01:10:40):
can stay at a cute little motel that was renovated by the vice
president of Marriott that's since been sold and is locally
owned. And it's maybe $170 a night.
And so, um, I would say that is a good hidden gem in that area.

(01:11:05):
You can go hiking there is in Afton, which is just, you know,
down the road 5 miles from Indian River, the Natures
megaphone, which is this giant megaphone that's modeled after a
three megaphones and a forest inEstonia.

(01:11:27):
And they, the shop class, the Petoskey area shop teacher, got
Home Depot to donate the supplies and they duplicated one
of them in a nature preserve near Indian River.
And you can actually climb into it and it magnifies the sounds

(01:11:50):
of the birds, of the insects. And it's above the Pigeon River.
So you hear the river rushing and the sounds, and you actually
climb inside it. Some.
Of this is really my book is called secret Michigan, a guide
to the weird, wonderful and obscure.
And so also in Indian River is the cross in the woods, which is

(01:12:14):
the largest corpus on a cross inthe world, or at least in the
United States. And in that church crossing the
woods church, there is in the basement, but it's kind of like
a walkout basement so that you can walk in the back and there

(01:12:37):
are ramps and stuff. There is a nun doll museum and
they have $526 all made by the same person that are dressed up
in different nuns. Habits.
Habit. For sure, that's kind of creepy
for a lot of people. People are really like, I never,

(01:12:58):
I never felt it, but a lot of people feel dolls are just
weird. Because of the eyes, they're all
looking at you. And the media and movies, they
showed so many haunted. The haunted.
There's so many haunted of them.Yeah, so, so there's so many
things in that area that there'sa bookstore for kids in younger

(01:13:25):
kids too, or teen age, middle teen kids.
And it's the supposedly the onlybookstore in the United States
that only sells the authors books.
And so if you kids are a ChillerMania fan, this author, Jonathan

(01:13:45):
Rand, has his bookstore there, and he sells only his books.
And he has books from all over the United States, like state
books and city books with mysteries and chiller stories.
So that's one of the places. And then there's the stories

(01:14:05):
behind popular places. There is a place.
This was kind of funny. The visit Visitors and
Convention Bureau in Traverse City, IN invited me to come and
they were showing me these places.

(01:14:25):
I gave them a list of places I wanted to see.
But then the guy took me to thisdistillery and I'm sitting there
thinking, what's the secret here?
Got it. I'm just like, you know me and
I'm having a good time drinking the Cherry Bounce, but what's
the secret? And then it was revealed that,

(01:14:50):
um, they started, um, S Manitou Island in the, I believe it was
in the 50s, or maybe it was evenbefore that.
They grew a heritage ride calledRose and Rye and the rye ended

(01:15:12):
up just not they they quit growing up.
Why did they quit growing up? Because it cross contaminated
and it was no longer Rose and Rye after about two years.
OK, so they caught it not contaminated, pollinated.
Excuse me. And so this distillery, Mammoth

(01:15:37):
Distilling, decided that they were going to resurrect Rosen
Rye. So they worked with the Colorado
C Bank in Michigan State University to get some seeds,
begin to grow them in kind of a greenhouse at Michigan State.
And then they got to the point where a few years ago they

(01:15:58):
actually planted the rye out on South Manitou Island because
what they did then was use that as a seed farm.
They brought the seed then into mainland and farmers grow it.
But they have to go back and getseed every couple of years from

(01:16:23):
South Manitou Island because S Manitou Island is so far out in
Lake MI it doesn't cross pollinate.
And so now in, I think it's 2026might be 27, they are actually
distilling whiskey now that is made from that rose and rye and

(01:16:45):
it will be ready in a year or so.
Wow, that's incredible. Do you think by by going through
Michigan like you did, do you think most people would be
fucking surprised of visiting their own city and really
finding gems? Because a lot of people like
think that they they did the whole tour of their own city.

(01:17:05):
But I think that if you take thetime like you did, really find
that gems in their own city, do you think?
Yeah, I think you can be a tourist in your own town easily
be a tourist in your own town. I have people tell me all the
time, I've done it all, I've seen it all.
I wrote the book 100 Things to do in Lansing and people like

(01:17:27):
I've lived here my whole life. I've I've done it all.
I'm finding things all the time that I never have been to or
knew was here and I. Wrote the book.
Yeah, exactly. Honey, like OK, this was a very
kind of funny story I had. She's now 6, but at 5, I took my

(01:17:47):
5 year old granddaughter to the library and we were hanging out
and doing whatever. And at the end she goes, well,
can we go to the pavilion? And I'm like what?
And I had no idea what she was talking about.
I said I don't mind if you can show me where it is because I

(01:18:10):
have no idea what you're talkingabout.
Well, she was saying pavilion and it turned out, yes, I knew
that the Veteran Veterans Memorial Garden was out behind
the library, but I had never been there.
I had never gone out there. And it turns out that there is a
garden there with, um, some statues and, or a statue at

(01:18:36):
least, and flowers and a pavilion to have a picnic lunch.
And she knew all about this. It was very well versed in this
place. And I was totally puzzled
because I had never taken her there.
My daughter had never taken her there.
Turns out that her daycare preschool walked there in the

(01:19:00):
summer time and had their lunch and.
So here she knows you have a 5 year old 5-6 year old.
Well, she introduced me to a place that's in there in my own
little town. And then and then in the bigger
capital city, I mean, I'd heard rumors for years about these

(01:19:22):
WPA, the Works Progress Administration art murals that
were in this water conditioning plant.
And I'd heard about them for years.
But the only way you could get into see them is if they were
open for like a tourist day or if you called and made an

(01:19:46):
appointment. Well, how do you make an
appointment? That wasn't obvious.
Anyway, I finally for my book, Iwanted to include some local
things in my secret Michigan book and I this fell under the
area of obscure. It's locked up.
You can't just go in there and say I wanna see the murals.

(01:20:06):
Yeah, you have to contact somebody on their contact form.
And but the visitors and Convention Bureau had to tell me
how to go do that. Well, my uncle like a one day he
was like, Oh yeah, I wanna come with me.
I need to pass at the shop and then go to that business for

(01:20:28):
like 5 minutes. I'm like whatever.
So he's like we stop at the shopand he's like, you should come
in. You would be surprised at what's
inside. I'm like, what the fuck is
inside here is like, well, the, the city of Granby.
Well, they put all the old signsof the city in, in that building
because so it's like a, a storage of all the ancient

(01:20:49):
Granby that we had. Like, are you kidding me?
What? I, I, I, I, I got in there.
There was old gas tanks and stuff like that.
I'm like, Oh my God, like I evenwanna leave.
I was like, man, like no civilian could just arrive here.
You literally need a contact. I'm like, wow, I didn't even
know that the city still had that.
And I was like, man, there's so much to learn and, and see.

(01:21:11):
I was seeing the old coke signs of 1920.
I was like, wow, this is something else.
When you thought you saw the whole city because you were
there all your life, you know, Then somebody brings you to a a
new door that you can open and you're like, oh shit, this is
all here. It's incredible how much you can
learn. As a wrap up of today's
conversation, can you talk aboutabout a bit your three books and

(01:21:37):
where can everybody find them? OK, sure.
So my first book is Midwest RoadTrip Adventures.
It's a collaborative effort. There are 12 Midwest states, and
so they invited someone who lives in each of those 12 states

(01:21:57):
to write the chapter on their book.
And so they asked us to choose four Rd. trips within our state.
They said your favorite ones. I mean, it's hard to choose a
favorite. So I tried to choose a
representation of the entire state.
Yeah. So I chose one road trip along

(01:22:21):
Lake MI in the Upper Peninsula and then the east West Coast and
one through the centre of the state.
But you'll find information on Route 66 and all of those things
and then 100 things to do in Lansing.
There's Lansing, MI and that's the capital.

(01:22:41):
So if you're ever going to visitMichigan State University for
perhaps a football game or someone, one of your kids or
grandkids, relatives are going to go to Michigan State.
It covers the greater Lansing area and there's all kinds of

(01:23:03):
things to do there. And then the last one is Secret
Michigan, a guide to the weird, Wonderful and obscure.
I was told the dinosaurs what attracts some people on it, but
it talks a lot about places thatyou may not know, that you may

(01:23:27):
know and say, oh, I've been there.
But it'll tell you a story that you don't know.
Like, for example, one that I often talk about, they all start
with the question like who was the only president that was also
a king? And that's kind of a sensitive

(01:23:48):
topic now, but it's not political at all.
The only president from Michiganwas Gerald R Ford.
And you said, well, how was he aking?
Well, he was born in Omaha, NE and his birth name was Leslie
King Junior. And so, um, he, his parents

(01:24:13):
divorced, his mom brought him toGrand Rapids.
I'll try and quickly tell the story.
His parents brought him to Grand, His mom brought him to
Grand Rapids to live with her parents.
And when he was 3 she married a man named Gerald Ford.
Gerald Ford never adopted his step son ever.
But when he was three, they decided, Oh well, we're going to

(01:24:37):
be a family in name 2. So they began calling him Junior
Ford and then Jerry Ford and it continued on.
So he went to University of Michigan.
Again, his name was legally Leslie King but called Gerald

(01:24:57):
Ford until finally after he graduated from University of
Michigan and his paternal grandparents passed away, Then
he went to the court system and legally changed his name to
Gerald Ford. And so the book tells the story.

(01:25:18):
But then it has these call out boxes on the side that tells
you, oh, go to the Presidential Museum in Grand Rapids.
Here's what it costs. Here's a pro tip so that, so
those are the three books you can get them um, at online on

(01:25:38):
Amazon. You can get two of them at
readypress.com. You can get them all on Amazon.
If you're in Michigan, you can get them at local bookstores
throughout the state. So.
Yeah, perfect. So I really appreciate you
taking the time today to come onthe show.
And so we hear your story. I hope I didn't put you too

(01:26:00):
uncomfortable with the questionsthat I asked.
No, no, it was fine. Just some of them were hard to
think and on the spot. Well, that's the point of those
two segments, just that make make that person a rethink about
certain stuff, because most people don't ask kind of
questions to really a trigger like a different stories that

(01:26:22):
you're gonna go deep and cause for sure in surface a person has
certain stories that is comfortable always thrown out.
But then what? You can go way deeper in that in
that other way. So do you have any socials that
everybody can go check out your stuff and find you online
before? We leave.
Ohe yes, Instagram Amy the Pipertravels and Twitter or acts Amy

(01:26:50):
the piper and then I have two Facebook 1 is follow the Piper
and Amy Piper and then please check out my blog follow the
piper.com. I talk about my adventures
around town and around the world.

(01:27:10):
So. Yeah, I, I love it and I like
the way you called it, followed the piper That that, that, that
is awesome. So thanks everybody for coming
on. I hope you guys are learned
something and appreciated her stories from her travel.
And I'll see you guys next week.

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Uncomfortable Truths of Life Traveling the World & the Hidden Gems of Michigan with Amy Piper EP70

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