November 25, 2025 • 43 mins
Running isn’t always about pushing harder; sometimes, it’s about knowing when to pull back.
For Melbourne-based runner Eva Bertram, running has always been about joy: no Strava, no data, no watch... just the feeling of getting out the door. From conquering Point to Pinnacle (the world’s "toughest half marathon"), to a New Year’s Eve “Run the Clock” adventure at the You Yangs complete with fireworks, a wine necklace, and a gashed knee, Eva’s stories capture exactly why everyday runners are extraordinary.
But this season of life looks different. As Eva and her partner navigate the realities of IVF, she’s been forced to step back from running... a challenge that’s tested her patience, identity, and balance more than any hill ever could.
In this episode:
- Running without Strava, watches, or pace pressure
- Point to Pinnacle: 1,276m of pure uphill grit
- The unforgettable You Yangs NYE “Run the Clock” event
- Navigating safety after being chased mid-run
- The emotional challenge of stepping back from running during IVF
- Finding support and shared understanding through a running partner
Runbelievable: real runners, unreal stories.
Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/rnblv_official/
Got a Runbelievable story or interested in being a guest on the show? Hit us up on socials or email us at joshua@runbelievable.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eva (00:07):
This obviously heavily intoxicated drug-affected person
came behind me and was justswinging this massive umbrella,
had like a spike at the top ofit, and was just calling obscene
things, chasing after me.
Oh my god, I was so scared.
Joshie (00:29):
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Run Believable.
The podcast for everydayrunners share a not-so-everyday
story.
I'm a hosting bringing thesestories a quick story overcoming
events.
From the last election toramping up too quickly, we need
(00:51):
to share what makes money atruly human experience.
And coming up in a moment,you'll meet a runner who's taken
on some incredibly uniquechallenges with finish line
characters that anyone wouldwant to add to their digital
CRISPR, and I can't wait to chatwith her.
Maddie, welcome back.
Firstly, how's the knee going?
Matty (01:10):
Yeah, not too bad.
Thanks, Joshie.
Um I don't know.
Yesterday it hurt a bit, buttoday it feels alright.
So I'm going to test ittonight.
So see here we go.
Joshie (01:21):
Yeah.
Now it makes sense.
Now it makes sense why you'rerushing me through this uh issue
to itchy to get out.
So the listeners have a bit ofcontext.
I'll probably sound a littlebit different.
We've had some audio issues,and my goodness, uh look, we've
had a good run so far, Maddie.
That's just part and parcel ofan amateur amateur production
such as ours.
Um now, look, uh Maddie, youknow that we like poking a
(01:43):
little bit of fun at you, andyou're a really, really good
sport.
But um we actually we actuallydid a poll, I don't know if you
saw it, about um your eye injuryand whether or not it was
indeed ambulance worthy.
And I am just and I am justgoing to double check the live
results.
In fact, the poll has justclosed.
Now, we had a really, reallygood response to this one, dude.
(02:04):
And good.
Yeah.
Now, to my amazement, what doyou reckon the results were in
terms of whether it wasambulance?
Matty (02:11):
It should have been a triple zero call.
Joshie (02:14):
Well, the majority of people agree with you.
We had 57% that said yes, 43%that said no.
Matty (02:21):
There you go, there you go.
Joshie (02:22):
Perhaps perhaps the most amusing part of the poll was um
your your lovely wife, she'sconnected with us on on uh
Instagram.
I know that she follows the RunPapable account, but she to
date has not engaged with any ofthe polls that we've had until
this one to get her no vote inthere.
Matty (02:41):
So yeah, I it's uh I'll never leave it down.
I'll never live it down.
But the thing is, when you seethe pictures, it it does look
pretty bad, but it's actuallyquite a minor it's a minor
injury.
Joshie (02:52):
Um, turns out the majority of people agree with
you.
They also would have beenpicking up the phone.
Now, look, let's get stuck intothe unbelievable rundown.
And just a reminder, this iswhere we share highlights,
mishaps, and little wins, thekind of stuff that Strava simply
can't capture.
Now, Maddie, today is a day ofcelebration.
Now, whilst I've been quitefortunate when it comes to
(03:13):
having uh black toenails, I didget a horrendously bad one at uh
just after the Gold Coastmarathon.
Now, as you know, I uh I Ipaced Natty for her first uh
marathon, which was just afantastic um experience.
Yeah, but I made that fatalmistake of buying and wearing
brand new socks.
You did.
(03:33):
Yeah, you did.
Yeah.
Oh geez, how were comfortablethough, Maddie?
Geez, they're so plush andcomfortable.
Matty (03:39):
They're always comfortable before you before
you run.
Joshie (03:43):
Yeah, oh look, even oh, look, it was probably at about
10k as I knew something wasn'tquite right.
But yeah, look, I pressed on.
Now, the reason I'm saying thattoday's a day of celebration,
we're what nearly five months onor getting close to, and the
toe, the black toe has almostcompletely grown out now.
So I was worried it was gonnafall off.
Uh, but yes, today's a day ofcelebration.
No, no.
(04:04):
Although I did hear it uh tellyou this, I was um uh taking off
some socks and I accidentallygot the like some thread caught
under the sock.
And as I pulled, I heard thetoenail crack, and I went, oh
geez, that's not a good sign,but it uh yeah, it didn't fall
off somehow.
Um but yeah, it's um certainlysomething to celebrate.
And I'm gonna be honest, um,when you talked to me about your
(04:26):
uh your black uh toenails, Iwas quite skeptical until we
went barefoot bowls.
And oh geez, my goodness, dude,those little those little toes
of yours look like somethingfrom a horror film.
Matty (04:38):
I've had three drop off, three drop off, and I've got one
that's still connected.
Joshie (04:42):
So well, there we go.
So this actually got methinking about a quiz idea.
This one is all about toenails,and I've called it Toe the
Line.
Now, uh just a quick disclaimerfor listeners if you're just
sitting down to dinner, Isuggest uh pausing this podcast
or letting your food digestbefore listening on.
So uh we might lose a fewlisteners in the process,
(05:04):
Maddie, but that's okay.
That's what churn is all about.
Yeah, look, let's see how wego.
So, question number one foryou, my friend.
And by the way, this is an A,B, or C model.
Matty (05:13):
Okay, A, B or C.
Joshie (05:15):
Now, the common term for uh blackened toenails, as you
probably know, is runners'toenails, and that's fine.
Which of the following is thecorrect medical term?
Is it a subungrual hematoma?
So that's the one uh sorry,that's uh one answer, subungral
hematoma.
Is it B sublingual hematoma orC submucosal hematoma?
Matty (05:40):
B submucosal.
Joshie (05:43):
Incorrect.
It is actually a subungralhematoma, which means
underneath.
Matty (05:49):
Yeah, okay.
Joshie (05:50):
So sublingual, so sublingual, as you may know, is
under the tongue.
Not something you want to bedoing with blackened toenails,
and C submucosal is a layer oftissue under the mucosa.
So the correct answer was A.
Question number two which growsfaster?
A, toenails, B, fingernails, orC, they grow at the same rate.
Matty (06:14):
Your toenails grow faster.
Joshie (06:17):
It is incorrect.
The fingernails grow faster andbiking.
Matty (06:21):
My daughter told me last week that toenails grow faster.
Joshie (06:25):
Well, you might have to um sanction her um because she
I'll tell you what, Anita's asmart cookie.
I'm surprised that she'd getsomething like that uh
incorrect.
But uh probably didn't, mate.
I did.
I probably got it wrong.
Jeez, hopefully that doesn'tput a dent in her uh ambitions
of becoming a school captain.
Um so uh just for forlisteners, the um the
(06:50):
fingernails grow at a rate ofroughly 3.5 millimeters per
month, whereas the toenails are1.6 millimeters per month.
So pretty much double the paceis what your fingernails grow
at.
Um okay, question number three.
The white part of a nail thatyou cut off is called which of
(07:11):
the following?
A free edge, b free entry, or cfree range.
Free edge.
Yep, that's correct.
Yeah.
I thought I was making itreasonably obvious.
Yeah, that wasn't there.
Um anyway, so how'd you go athome?
(07:32):
Please let us know.
We're having a lot of fun withthis.
Today's guest knows a thing ortwo about balance, not just in
life, but on the trails, thehills, and, dare I say it, the
unpredictable streets ofMelbourne.
Her running journey is one thatunfolds quietly, no fanfare,
just the genuine love of gettingout the door for a run a few
times a week.
Between shifting routines andsome truly unforgettable
(07:54):
adventures, her story is theepitome of running on your own
terms.
Can we please all welcome EvaBertram?
Welcome, Eva.
Eva (08:02):
Yeah, welcome, Eva.
Thank you for having me, guys.
I'm very excited to be on umthe podcast with both of you and
look forward to talking aboutum one of our loves, running.
Joshie (08:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Awesome.
Great to have you.
Now, look, Eva, you've had sucha broad mix of running
experiences over the years, andit certainly predates the
running boom.
Um, what can you tell us aboutwhat first sparked your interest
in the sport?
Eva (08:31):
Yeah, I suppose it was the initial initial response to
wanting to be mentally okay andum just getting out and getting
some fresh air, and then thatlove turned into running wanting
to run an event.
I've never had run an eventbefore.
(08:51):
Um, and I suppose the first runthat I did was run for the
kids, and that was when you canrun through the bolties.
So, this is in Melbourne.
Matty (08:59):
Oh, cool, yeah.
Eva (09:00):
Yeah, so that was awesome.
And I actually had a a mentor,and she was the one who inspired
me to start running, to run foran event.
So I actually started trainingwith her for that first run, and
unfortunately, she got aninjury midway through our
training, and I thought, how amI gonna do this without her?
(09:23):
But obviously, I love aroutine, so I just kept on at
it, and um, I did my first run,run for the kids.
So that was brilliant 2016.
So a bit of a late bloomer whenit comes to running.
Um, growing up, I wasn't reallya sports-oriented kind of gal.
Um, I did netball throughschool and um and then not
(09:48):
really too much after that.
Matty (09:50):
So you didn't you didn't run at school?
Eva (09:53):
No, I was I'm quite small, as in stature, as in lots of
other things.
So I was quite um I was fast atsprinting, but um then that I
suppose that sort of died off asI got to my teenage years, um,
being a girl and things sort oflike wobbling around.
I was just um took a back seatand didn't really run as much.
(10:17):
Um didn't really do lots ofsport until obviously um my
later 20s, early 30s, and that'swhen I sort of, yeah, the love
of running sparked then.
And then from that initial runI then worked towards doing a
(10:37):
half marathon, um, did amarathon and um moved to Western
Australia where I lived inBroome, and that was really
interesting.
Um speaking of community, Iactually joined a running
community up there, and theyeven like sparked my love for
(10:59):
trail running, and that'sprobably where trail running
began for me.
Joshie (11:05):
What what was it like running in the heat?
I didn't know you lived inBroome.
What was it like running in theheat and the humidity up there?
Yeah, because it's hot.
Eva (11:13):
Oh, it is hot, so I suppose everywhere you have to run with
a camelback, even if it's likeyou know, five kilometers.
Joshie (11:20):
Wow.
Eva (11:21):
So we'd get up really early, like 4 30 in the morning.
Probably that's not early forsome people, but I suppose you
have to beat the heat there.
Dry season was a lot better torun in, just wet season, yeah,
you definitely have to hydrate,hydrate, hydrate.
Um, but we'd stop off at placesalong the way we needed to
(11:41):
gather more water.
And um the running groupstarted off only like there were
six of us, and then by the timeI sort of left the room and
just expanded, they started tomake their own t-shirts, and it
was just oh cool, yeah, a reallybeautiful community.
And because I moved up there todo teaching, I didn't know
anyone, and that was my sort ofsense of family um and support
(12:06):
network there.
Joshie (12:07):
Okay.
Eva (12:07):
So so they sparked different kinds of running which
I'd never sort of thoughtabout, and um yeah, and I'm
still friends with a lot ofthem, and we don't see each
other as often, unfortunately,but we're still in contact with
like what events are happeningand things like that.
So, yeah, without them, I don'tknow what I would have done.
(12:29):
And having running as a passionfor all of us, I think, sort of
made us connect together.
Matty (12:35):
Yeah.
Like my cool, yeah, definitely,yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joshie (12:40):
It's amazing.
The more people I talk to thatI mean, I've only taken up
running in the last few years,and so all I really know is the
local running scene, theBrisbane community.
But it seems as though there'srunning communities pretty much
everywhere, even in relativelysmall regional centres, which I
think's fantastic.
Um a truly universal activity,I think probably nothing
(13:03):
competes with running.
Matty (13:05):
And I think it it it it's a beautiful thing in terms of
the like those groups and thosecommunities, everyone within
them um is doing it for similaror different reasons, but
there's always reasons.
Um it's not just to run, itit's more than that.
Eva (13:21):
Yeah, definitely.
And I suppose that's likecommonality, and then you find
other interests, like you know,you'll be running for a long
amount of time, so you'll justrun and chat, and you find other
things that align, then youstart to do, especially Broom is
a very small community, so youstart to do things together.
So, yeah, it does become a bitmore like a family network.
Matty (13:43):
It is, yeah.
Joshie (13:45):
Now, either you're someone who runs without Strava,
you don't have a watch, notreally fussed on data, or I
think you have run key things,which is so you can keep some
kind of track of it.
Yeah, I know.
Um what what impact has thathad on how you connect with
running this, you know, trulysort of um, you know, if I can
call it naked running?
Eva (14:06):
Yeah, I I haven't I'm not up to with all the tech and
everything, which I should be.
My probably age bracket, Ishould be all over it.
But I just find when I'mrunning, I'm running for me, I'm
running for clarity.
Like I feel the best in themorning when I'm going out for a
run.
And yes, I do want to keepcertain times and I do want to
(14:28):
do better, but I also want tojust know that my head is clear
for that day.
So um when I was doingobviously like my half marathons
and marathons, I would watchthe time, but I think now it's
sort of tapered off time.
I just want to get out there,and at least if I can, you know,
(14:48):
run three to five times a week,I'm happy.
Yeah, I'm not really pushingfor pace.
So I think um, Josh, when Ispoke to you before, in regards
to you, I've had Run Keeper,that's the only app that I've
had since 2016, and um, sothat's got all my runs on it.
I did have a running watch, butthen something happened and it
(15:12):
broke, and I was like, well, Ididn't really need that, you
know.
So um I do track the time whenI obviously I hit on Runkeeper,
and I do briefly look at like mysplits at you know, if I'm
going incline, okay, how did Igo there and things like that?
But to analyze it, yeah, I justlove running.
Matty (15:35):
So I think that's gonna become a thing, you know.
People that are like they haveit in terms of like surfers,
like soul surfers.
Um they're gonna be these soulrunners that just run without
any uh device on them to trackit, track anything.
It's interesting, I canactually see that happening as a
(15:55):
as a movement.
Eva (15:56):
Yeah, definitely.
And where I am, sometimes it'snot the safest to run, like you
know, if you're distracted bysomething.
So I've never run with music,like I think maybe a few times I
have, but I just I sort of knowthe streets and I can hear what
(16:20):
type of birds are chirping atwhat time.
So I know if a bird is chirpinglike like in front of me, I
know that there's someone upthere.
So like I think that is myindicator as well when I'm
trying to be safe early in themorning.
Matty (16:37):
That's that's really that's really in tune.
That's amaz that's amazing.
Eva (16:42):
Yeah, so I suppose you appreciate it even more, and
yeah, it's yeah.
Joshie (16:48):
So yeah, like Maddie said, that's that's a level of
being attuned to yoursurroundings in your environment
that I've I've not heard ofbefore.
That's uh and maybe that'sbecause I take my safety for
granted, but um that'sincredible even.
It sounds like you've had acouple of incidents of late
that's you know probablyheightened your like a sense of
(17:09):
awareness.
Eva (17:11):
Yes.
Um, yeah, there was an incidentum a few months ago that I was
running around the streets.
And if I run early in themorning, I tend to run where
there's street lights.
Like I won't we are sofortunate we live right across
the Marabanong River, and I loverunning along the river, but I
won't do it when it's early inthe morning because there's no
(17:33):
lights.
Joshie (17:34):
Yeah.
Eva (17:34):
But um, this other time I was just running my normal route
um around near the streetlights, and um, yeah, this
obviously heavily intoxicateddrug-affected person came behind
me and was just swinging thismassive umbrella, had like a
spike at the the top of it, andwas just calling obscene things,
(17:58):
chasing after me.
Oh my god, I was so scared.
Yeah, I ran.
Luckily, there was a cafe thatwas open at that hour on the
corner.
I ran to that cafe and I juststayed in there.
I just waited in there until ummy partner came and I was just,
yeah, my heart was racing, butI knew I'd be safe in there.
(18:18):
Um, yeah.
So I just have to be carefulabout where I run and therefore,
obviously, you know, notrunning.
As I said, I don't run withmusic and I haven't for a very,
very long time, if ever, like ahandful of times.
But yeah, just to be mindfulbecause it's unfortunate that
that is the world we live in,but it's not gonna take away our
(18:42):
love for running.
Matty (18:44):
Totally agree.
Joshie (18:45):
I'm sorry to hear that eva.
That's awful.
Um I can't imagine goingthrough something like that.
No.
Eva (18:52):
No, but uh yeah, we do we do it, and then shit happens and
you get over it and you go foranother run another time.
Matty (19:00):
But that shit shouldn't happen.
Like, you know, I I you you cango back like 20 years, 30 years
ago.
You used to leave your frontdoor unlocked.
You leave it open.
Like, where are those daysgone?
Yeah, it shouldn't happen, itshouldn't be happening.
Joshie (19:14):
No, just an unfortunate reality.
I mean, as much as we'd like tosay that these things shouldn't
happen, it does.
And so, you know, um, I thinkit's sensible to take
precautions, it's just uh it'sjust one hell of an unfortunate
reality.
That's right.
Um look, uh shifting gearssomewhat, you were running well
(19:35):
and uh well and truly before thepost-COVID boom, as I mentioned
before, um, having sort of beenrunning since 2015 or 16.
Um one adventure that you and Ium chatted about before uh
before today that I really wantto hear more about is Point to
Pinnacle, which was only heldjust recently.
Um I'd never heard of it, bythe way, until you mentioned it
(19:55):
to me.
Um that uh yeah, actually afriend of mine was just down in
in uh actually I won't spoilwhere it is, I'll let you talk
about uh about the event.
Eva (20:03):
Thanks, Josh.
Joshie (20:04):
Yep.
Eva (20:04):
Um yeah, Point to Pinnacle, oh my god, what an amazing run!
So it actually starts at thebase in Hobart and you run right
up Matt Wellington.
Joshie (20:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eva (20:14):
So um, yeah, that's just a really cool run because
obviously you get to the top,and then once you get to the
top, you've reached your halfmarathon, and then the bus is
waiting for you, and the bustakes you down.
So um all hill.
All hill, Matt.
Matty (20:33):
So the training for that was of course I'd love it.
Uh I'd embrace it.
Maybe it can't even walk up hisfront steps.
Joshie (20:44):
There you go.
Eva (20:45):
All right, November next year.
That's when the next run is.
Joshie (20:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Eva (20:53):
Yeah.
Joshie (20:54):
They just they just had it um recently.
Uh do yourselves a favor, guys,um, and anyone who's listening,
and I think it's still there,have a look at the website and
the elevation map.
It's in reverse.
When you look at the elevationmap from left to right, it looks
like it descends, but that'snot the way you can run.
No, no.
So it's quite comical.
(21:14):
And I saw it, I went, oh, thislooks pretty darn easy.
Just run downhill for 1300meters.
Um, but uh no, it's uh 13 1300meters of climbing and uh good
on your attack.
Yeah, can you can you rememberwhat your time was?
Eva (21:31):
Oh god, to be honest, no.
Oh, it would have been like twohours two and a half hours or
something.
Matty (21:40):
But that's that's a sort of event I can that's a sort of
event that you're just um it'sabout finishing.
Yeah, yeah.
Eva (21:47):
Oh definitely, yeah.
Because I was like, I just wantto accomplish this.
And I think I'll say it to you,Josh, as well, there was people
beside me that were runningwith someone in the pram,
pushing it up, and I'm like, ohmy god, I I am like struggling
here, but they just look make itlook so easy.
And I was like, kudos to them.
(22:07):
So, you know, it just goes toshow as well mind.
The mind does amazing things,our bodies will follow that it
acts our mind that just says,keep going.
Don't worry about that sorefoot, just keep going.
Matty (22:19):
Well, in in terms of that, like your training, like
was there lots of traininginvolved within um like like to
prepare for that?
And and it's uh if so, was itlots of hills, lots of hill
runs?
Eva (22:32):
Yes.
So where um I used to live inBack Smarch, I don't know if you
sort of know the area, but itis there's not really any flat
areas there.
So that's the best fortraining.
So I'd just do like hill runs,training, um, and then would
alternate that between, youknow, sort of a distance run,
dancing hills, and I had apartner as well training for the
(22:55):
same event, so that made it alot easier, and um, we regularly
trained together.
So without her, like I couldn'thave done it, she couldn't have
done it.
Um so but definitely it wasyeah, it was one great event
that I'm so happy that I'vedone.
Uh would I do that again?
(23:16):
Probably not, no.
Um, whereas other runs I havedefinitely redone like time and
time again.
So, but um, yeah, definitely arun to remember once you get up
there, the view, and obviouslybecause it gets so cold once you
get closer to the top andyou're sweating, and so that was
(23:38):
another challenge as well.
Yeah, so we knew that that wasgoing to happen.
Um and then by then you justokay, once you reach the top,
just want a cold drink, I wantsomething to eat, I want a
shower, but it's also thoseendorphins be like, hey, we
actually did this, yeah, youknow.
Joshie (23:58):
Yeah.
So you know, either uh mostpeople most people who are in
their sort of um twenties andthirties when it comes to New
Year's Eve, they sort of youknow find what local party scene
there is.
Uh you decided to bring in uh aNew Year's in a very unique
way.
Uh can you tell us about Runthe Clock?
Eva (24:16):
Yeah, so Run the Clock um was an event out in the Yu
Yangs.
So in like national park area,just probably an hour's drive
from Melbourne, and it's abeautiful area.
It's one of my happy placesbecause they've got so many
different tracks there.
You can hike there, you can BMXthere, you can run there.
Um, and one year, it was 2018,they had a New Year's where you
(24:40):
run into New Year's.
So, and there is got so manydifferent like um elevations.
There's it's like trailrunning, but there's boulders
that you have to go over.
Joshie (24:51):
Oh, cool.
Eva (24:52):
So um, two girlfriends and I, so the three of us, we signed
up for it, and we'll just belike, you know, we'll try it.
What's the worst that's gonnahappen?
So um we started, I think theystarted around seven, and then
you have obviously you had untilmidnight to do it.
We finished probably like say9:30, it got a little bit dark
in there.
(25:12):
Um, but that was just so coolbecause it was such a small
event.
I don't know how many peoplewould have even been in it.
I think like 30, maybe 40,because the track is not it's
not a very big track.
And it I don't know how I foundit.
I found it on some website, butit wasn't a well-known one.
(25:32):
And maybe because they didn'thave insurance out of them.
Um because all they had at thetop, like when you sort of
finished, was just like a coupleof gazebos, um, some like
strobe lights, and um that wasit.
But people got dressed up, andthere was people wearing
costumes and things like that.
(25:53):
So that was a really coolevent.
And at the end, you got alittle like necklace, and on
your necklace, like yourlanyard, you had a uh thing of
bubbles.
So that was your post into thenew year.
Cool.
So um yeah, that was a reallycool half event, a half
marathon, and then they weresaying to Josh in the last one
kilometer, because likeobviously there's so many things
(26:15):
you have to run over, jumpover, climb over.
The last kilometer, I scrapedmy I fell down and I had this
big gush on my knee, and it'sonly until like obviously you
finished you sort of stopped andlike, oh, what was that wet
thing?
Oh gush on my knee, yeah.
Um but that was it, definitelyone to remember, and I'm very
(26:38):
lucky that I had so the personthat I did um my the Tassie run
with, and then another girl thatI did um hanging rock run, I
sort of like it was the three ofus.
So they didn't know each other,and then we all then we came
together and we had oh, this iscool, you know.
(26:58):
We have a package for running.
So then we were able to do someother vents together.
Matty (27:04):
That's really cool.
Joshie (27:05):
So did you tell me I think it's the Yu Yangs, you
said they're about it's about anhour from Melbourne.
I think you can see the lightsof both Geelong and Melbourne
from the top.
Did you say that you could likesee the fireworks from both
cities?
Eva (27:18):
Yes, yes.
So at the top, when you get tothe top, you can see a view from
um Geelong, so also like alongthe foreshore, and then you can
see Melbourne.
So it's a pretty cool space.
So if anyone can get over to,you know, if they come visit
Melbourne, it's always a goodplace to go to for a run, hike,
bike, whatever, picnic,anything.
Joshie (27:41):
Wow.
Yeah, I grew up in Melbourneand I can't even remember
visiting.
Oh, really?
Josh.
Yeah, no, but I I know I wentto Geelong, you know, many
times, but I sort of think, youknow, that the my visits to
Geelong were to watch a game ofum football.
Yes, the hawks pretty muchalways always lost there, and
yeah, dad was pretty darn keento get home after that.
Eva (28:01):
Yeah.
He didn't want to stump off theU Yangs.
Joshie (28:04):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think after it, yeah, afterbeing belted by Geelong, you're
pretty keen just to get homenow.
Yeah, to juggle um life routineand uh finding balance lately,
um, you know, make some somequite big adjustments.
Um, what would you say has beenthe hardest part about not
running as much as you'd liketo?
Eva (28:27):
Um, I suppose not having an event to look forward to.
Like I think it's taken a backseat, which it it won't be
forever, it's just for now.
So um as you get to a certainage, and then you know, you want
to have your fan a family ofyour own.
So the last three years we'vebeen trying to have a family of
(28:50):
our own, and we've obviously hadto have extra support through
IVF.
So um running has sort of takena backseat.
It's always there in thebackground, like I'm still a
part of my routine.
However, um, it's not like oh,I have an event, like I'll I'll
go and do this, you know, I'lltrain for this, I'll push my
body because just tests thatI've done and everything have
(29:14):
said that I'm over-exerting uhmy body, therefore, it's not a
like not a place that I can havea child in my body.
I don't know, I don't know thetechnical terms, but yeah.
So um, yeah, therefore tryingto balance um all of these
medications, you know,injections, hormones, and all of
(29:37):
that without um yeah, withoutstill having that whole removal
of running, but still includingit.
So therefore my runs areobviously a lot shorter.
I can't get to a certain bodytemperature, so there and runs
are slower, slower pace.
(29:58):
So that's where I suppose theadjustments are for now, not
forever, but until we sort ofget our family started.
Joshie (30:07):
Yeah.
So I'm going to I guess show hownaive I am when it comes to
IVF.
I mean, are these adjustmentsthat you've only recently made,
or has that been from the startof your journey three years ago
that you basically had to uhpull right back on your running
commitments?
Eva (30:24):
Yeah, at the start probably did because it was the focus
had shifted more onto okay, wellI need to look after my body.
However, I was running a lotmore lot more kilometres more
frequently, but probably in thelast six months because I've had
(30:44):
to have like a fertilitydietitian, um, had multiple
tests, and yes, in they've saidlike my body's under a certain
amount of stress, and maybe I'mnot fueling it properly.
Um I can still run.
So I said to my optetrician,like, obviously, I've been a
runner for a long time.
He's like, you can still run,you just can't run to exert, you
(31:08):
know, a certain percentage ofyour fuel and output and things
like that.
So um, but trying to compensatethat as well, so to have
running, and also I do likePilode Pilodis.
That's a new one.
Yoga and Pilates, Pilotis.
Um Pilates and yoga as well, totry and still maintain that
(31:35):
flexibility.
Um and yeah, so I probablydidn't even answer your
question, sorry.
Joshie (31:42):
Uh no, you you did.
Um, okay.
Uh so is that the same with Iguess uh weights and um other
forms of cross-training that youjust really have to pull back
on the um level of intensity.
Eva (31:55):
Yeah, and I obviously I love yoga and anything I can get
a sweat up.
So I was doing hot yoga.
Oh yeah.
You can't do that anymore.
Um you can't go into a saunaanymore.
Um, so those types of thingsthat just love getting a sweat
up.
Obviously, like running is agood sweat up, but yeah, just
(32:16):
have to pull back on those andtherefore amend like my um
fitness regime and um diet.
So trying to um beef up alittle bit um with in terms of
like different like body fat andthings like that.
(32:37):
Um yeah, and hopefully still beable to run.
I'm like obviously my body isstill good, I can still run,
just I can't um sign up foranything too much at the moment.
Joshie (32:55):
Um now you have a a partner that also runs, mind
you, not quite as quick as you.
Um, how important would you saythat is having a shared
understanding in a relationshipwhen two people both want to use
running as a as an outlet?
Eva (33:11):
Oh, definitely.
Like he loves running, he justdoesn't love running first thing
in the morning, or he doesn'tlove running when it's cold.
Whereas to me, it's likethere's no bad weather, it's
just bad clothing.
So um when yeah, obviously,when we were first um obviously,
yeah, knew that we both enjoyedrunning, then that was perfect.
(33:36):
And it still is like I think Iinspire him and he inspires me.
So we both know how good itfeels when we're running, and
when we run together, it'sactually it it is quite nice
because that's a time when wecan actually just have a chat
and we might get things off ourchest while we're running.
(33:57):
Um, but because we're bothdoing that and we're both
feeling great, it's a it's agood time to chat rather than
you know, late at night when youboth come home, you've had a
busy day at work, and then youjust want to bring up these
things that you thought about,you know, just doing over two
hours ago.
Joshie (34:14):
Yeah.
Eva (34:14):
So I think um, yeah, it that's that's why um probably
one definitely positive thingthat we have in our
relationship, lots of otherthings that we do, but I think
running is yeah, is definitelysomething that we're we love and
we want to encourage each otherto keep pursuing that.
Joshie (34:35):
Yeah.
So can I ask a reallyprovocative question?
You'll be able to tell that Ihaven't prepared this one.
Do you prefer to run with yourpartner or run without him?
You can't prefer it.
Eva (34:49):
You should ask you to know the answer.
Well, yeah, he will know.
Um, preferably when the sun isout and when we're on a track
going round, I'll run with him.
But when we're running throughthe street and we have to go
like across a busy road, then Irun by myself.
(35:12):
And you'll get the sameresponse because he'll just, you
know, dart through certainthings, go in front of a car.
Whereas I can still yeah, I candart through cars, but I'll go
down to a safer space to crossthe road, and then I get you
know frustrated with him, and hegets frustrated with me that I
have to catch up.
So, in those instances, I'mgonna sit on the fence here, I
(35:35):
will run by myself, but whenwe're doing, like, you know, if
we're doing laps around a trackor something like that, then
yeah, we'll run together.
Or we actually went on aholiday um a few weeks ago.
We actually came up to the GoldCoast and um yeah, so we did a
couple of runs together, andthat's so nice, you know,
(35:58):
exploring different placestogether.
And so that's yeah, I just whenI'm running with him, I like to
run on a path, um, not weepingthrough traffic.
Joshie (36:14):
Skyline.
Uh, do you want to run with me?
This is what we're doing.
Um I think uh Eva, you've uhbeen fantastic today.
I think the only thing Iprobably don't agree with is
there not being such a thing asbad weather.
I grew I grew up in the August.
Uh I'm not sure that I agreewith that.
But certainly more than that.
No, but it's not like the cold.
Eva (36:35):
Oh no.
No, I don't like the cold.
Joshie (36:38):
Well then why are you living up here, dude?
I mean, you like yeah youcompla you complaining all the
time about the hot weather andyou have that like 11 months of
the year.
Eva (36:48):
Yeah, you can't win.
I don't know where's the idealplace to live, but um yeah.
Joshie (36:54):
Now, Eva, there is one adventure that you haven't
mentioned, which I'm keen toexplore, and that's your Kokoda
experience.
What can you tell us aboutthat?
Eva (37:02):
Yeah, this came probably when I got back from Broome.
Like I wanted to do anothermarathon.
Um, and I looked at eitherdoing Feral Pig, which is over
in WA.
And then someone suggested tome, have you ever thought of
hiking?
And I thought, hmm, that's likea slow version of running.
Joshie (37:25):
That's a bit that should be boring.
Eva (37:28):
And I'm like, oh yeah, I I do like being out in nature,
like that's one of my things.
And then I thought, oh, thensomeone suggested, have you
thought of Kakoda?
And because I loved thecommunity that I met over in
Broom, and I love the fact thatyou're running with the
community, you're meeting thecommunity.
So then um I had six months andI signed up to do Kokoda, and
(37:52):
it was one of the bestexperiences ever, I suppose.
Um, I had the fitness levelbecause I had been running, so
it was fine to you know do thetracks and things like that, but
I think it's more about thepeople that you met along the
way.
The eldest was um John, he was67, and the youngest was 16.
(38:14):
So what they do is they get ascholarship, so there were four
children to go um and do codeart.
Matty (38:24):
And it's 96 96 kilometers, isn't it?
Eva (38:28):
Yeah, oh god, I can't can't even remember now.
Joshie (38:31):
Yeah, it's um over what time frame do you do you run it?
Do you like it?
Like I was asking over what uhtime period.
Eva (38:40):
Uh it was 10 days.
So it's a 10 day.
So you hike, I think roughlylike the longest stay we did was
like 18 kilometers a day.
But it's just I suppose peopleget to camp when they get to
camp.
Like some people get therefirst.
You sort of want to be one ofthe first people to get there
(39:01):
first because then you can setup your tent, um, you can, you
know, go and have a shower inthe in the creek, have a wash in
the creek, um, have somethingto drink, and then just enjoy
people's company, like we playedcards and things like that.
Um, so yeah, so when I took abreak or just changed it up a
(39:24):
little bit, that's what I did,and um, I met some awesome
people along the way.
Matty (39:30):
And do you walk all day every day for those 10 days?
Eva (39:34):
Yes.
So some days that you get up atlike 3 a.m.
There obviously you need thethe torch, the headlamp.
Um and it's quite wet, nothingdries because it's humid, you're
sweating, so we would have afire at nighttime, and everyone
put their boots and sockshanging out, and um, but then in
(39:56):
the morning you just put themback on and it's still quite
damp.
Um, and then you pretty muchjust recycle a couple pairs of
like leggings, some tights, acouple of tops, and um yeah, you
get along your merry way andyou keep going and they stop at
certain spots and we reflect onthe history of the place.
(40:20):
Yeah, and uh yeah, but umthat's uh yeah, that was great,
and I'm glad that I got to be apart of that.
Um so that's yeah, change fromrunning, um, and then I came
back and got back into runningagain.
But hiking's always a nice, youknow, intermittent thing, I
(40:43):
suppose.
You're still out with natureand exploring.
Joshie (40:49):
Eva, we could we could talk to you all day, we really
could.
Um we'd like to truly thank youfrom the bottom of our hearts
for taking the time to speakwith us today.
Um, and we really hope that youand your partner are successful
with your um with IBS.
Um yeah, look, your honor, youruh honor your honesty, humour,
(41:11):
and love for running for thesake of running is um is why why
the sport matters.
It's um been an absolute joyspeaking with you.
Thanks so much for once again.
Eva (41:20):
Thank you both for having me.
Matty (41:22):
No, thanks for being a part of it.
It's yeah, it was really good.
Eva (41:25):
Oh, well, you come back after talking about running, you
know, you just feel like youwant to take on the next event.
So thanks for sharing thatpassion.
Joshie (41:33):
Yeah, definitely.
Thank you, Eva.
Eva (41:36):
Thanks, guys.
Joshie (41:37):
Thank you.
See ya.
My goodness, Maddie, what aninspiration Eva is.
I love her experiences.
I had no idea about Kakoda.
Um, run the clock.
Run the clock was amazing.
Uh getting a wine-fillednecklace um as your medal when
you get to the top.
Um, yeah, I mean, you know me,Maddie, I don't mind a drink
(41:59):
from time to time, but I thinkI'd want to drink a bit more
than a small bottle of wine.
I think I'd want a one literone liter bottle of gin waiting
for me to be slung across myneck.
But you know, drink Maddie,what what would incentivize you
would be chocolates, lollies,maybe chocolates.
Matty (42:14):
I normally after after an event um that I've done, you
know, people obviously go backand go to the pub and have a few
beers.
Well, I go and buy chocolateand eat chocolate.
Joshie (42:25):
What about honey grates of cashews?
You'd love that as well.
Matty (42:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they're always good before.
Joshie (42:31):
Yeah, it's working you'd love.
Imagine they flying a pair ofadded that's property cost of
it.
It's another thing.
Uh today, you've got to run thelatest four stories of your own
weekly.
This obviously heavily intoxicated drug-affected person
came behind me and was justswinging this massive umbrella,
had like a spike at the top ofit, and was just calling obscene
things, chasing after me.
Oh my god, I was so scared.
Joshie (00:29):
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Run Believable.
The podcast for everydayrunners share a not-so-everyday
story.
I'm a hosting bringing thesestories a quick story overcoming
events.
From the last election toramping up too quickly, we need
(00:51):
to share what makes money atruly human experience.
And coming up in a moment,you'll meet a runner who's taken
on some incredibly uniquechallenges with finish line
characters that anyone wouldwant to add to their digital
CRISPR, and I can't wait to chatwith her.
Maddie, welcome back.
Firstly, how's the knee going?
Matty (01:10):
Yeah, not too bad.
Thanks, Joshie.
Um I don't know.
Yesterday it hurt a bit, buttoday it feels alright.
So I'm going to test ittonight.
So see here we go.
Joshie (01:21):
Yeah.
Now it makes sense.
Now it makes sense why you'rerushing me through this uh issue
to itchy to get out.
So the listeners have a bit ofcontext.
I'll probably sound a littlebit different.
We've had some audio issues,and my goodness, uh look, we've
had a good run so far, Maddie.
That's just part and parcel ofan amateur amateur production
such as ours.
Um now, look, uh Maddie, youknow that we like poking a
(01:43):
little bit of fun at you, andyou're a really, really good
sport.
But um we actually we actuallydid a poll, I don't know if you
saw it, about um your eye injuryand whether or not it was
indeed ambulance worthy.
And I am just and I am justgoing to double check the live
results.
In fact, the poll has justclosed.
Now, we had a really, reallygood response to this one, dude.
(02:04):
And good.
Yeah.
Now, to my amazement, what doyou reckon the results were in
terms of whether it wasambulance?
Matty (02:11):
It should have been a triple zero call.
Joshie (02:14):
Well, the majority of people agree with you.
We had 57% that said yes, 43%that said no.
Matty (02:21):
There you go, there you go.
Joshie (02:22):
Perhaps perhaps the most amusing part of the poll was um
your your lovely wife, she'sconnected with us on on uh
Instagram.
I know that she follows the RunPapable account, but she to
date has not engaged with any ofthe polls that we've had until
this one to get her no vote inthere.
Matty (02:41):
So yeah, I it's uh I'll never leave it down.
I'll never live it down.
But the thing is, when you seethe pictures, it it does look
pretty bad, but it's actuallyquite a minor it's a minor
injury.
Joshie (02:52):
Um, turns out the majority of people agree with
you.
They also would have beenpicking up the phone.
Now, look, let's get stuck intothe unbelievable rundown.
And just a reminder, this iswhere we share highlights,
mishaps, and little wins, thekind of stuff that Strava simply
can't capture.
Now, Maddie, today is a day ofcelebration.
Now, whilst I've been quitefortunate when it comes to
(03:13):
having uh black toenails, I didget a horrendously bad one at uh
just after the Gold Coastmarathon.
Now, as you know, I uh I Ipaced Natty for her first uh
marathon, which was just afantastic um experience.
Yeah, but I made that fatalmistake of buying and wearing
brand new socks.
You did.
(03:33):
Yeah, you did.
Yeah.
Oh geez, how were comfortablethough, Maddie?
Geez, they're so plush andcomfortable.
Matty (03:39):
They're always comfortable before you before
you run.
Joshie (03:43):
Yeah, oh look, even oh, look, it was probably at about
10k as I knew something wasn'tquite right.
But yeah, look, I pressed on.
Now, the reason I'm saying thattoday's a day of celebration,
we're what nearly five months onor getting close to, and the
toe, the black toe has almostcompletely grown out now.
So I was worried it was gonnafall off.
Uh, but yes, today's a day ofcelebration.
No, no.
(04:04):
Although I did hear it uh tellyou this, I was um uh taking off
some socks and I accidentallygot the like some thread caught
under the sock.
And as I pulled, I heard thetoenail crack, and I went, oh
geez, that's not a good sign,but it uh yeah, it didn't fall
off somehow.
Um but yeah, it's um certainlysomething to celebrate.
And I'm gonna be honest, um,when you talked to me about your
(04:26):
uh your black uh toenails, Iwas quite skeptical until we
went barefoot bowls.
And oh geez, my goodness, dude,those little those little toes
of yours look like somethingfrom a horror film.
Matty (04:38):
I've had three drop off, three drop off, and I've got one
that's still connected.
Joshie (04:42):
So well, there we go.
So this actually got methinking about a quiz idea.
This one is all about toenails,and I've called it Toe the
Line.
Now, uh just a quick disclaimerfor listeners if you're just
sitting down to dinner, Isuggest uh pausing this podcast
or letting your food digestbefore listening on.
So uh we might lose a fewlisteners in the process,
(05:04):
Maddie, but that's okay.
That's what churn is all about.
Yeah, look, let's see how wego.
So, question number one foryou, my friend.
And by the way, this is an A,B, or C model.
Matty (05:13):
Okay, A, B or C.
Joshie (05:15):
Now, the common term for uh blackened toenails, as you
probably know, is runners'toenails, and that's fine.
Which of the following is thecorrect medical term?
Is it a subungrual hematoma?
So that's the one uh sorry,that's uh one answer, subungral
hematoma.
Is it B sublingual hematoma orC submucosal hematoma?
Matty (05:40):
B submucosal.
Joshie (05:43):
Incorrect.
It is actually a subungralhematoma, which means
underneath.
Matty (05:49):
Yeah, okay.
Joshie (05:50):
So sublingual, so sublingual, as you may know, is
under the tongue.
Not something you want to bedoing with blackened toenails,
and C submucosal is a layer oftissue under the mucosa.
So the correct answer was A.
Question number two which growsfaster?
A, toenails, B, fingernails, orC, they grow at the same rate.
Matty (06:14):
Your toenails grow faster.
Joshie (06:17):
It is incorrect.
The fingernails grow faster andbiking.
Matty (06:21):
My daughter told me last week that toenails grow faster.
Joshie (06:25):
Well, you might have to um sanction her um because she
I'll tell you what, Anita's asmart cookie.
I'm surprised that she'd getsomething like that uh
incorrect.
But uh probably didn't, mate.
I did.
I probably got it wrong.
Jeez, hopefully that doesn'tput a dent in her uh ambitions
of becoming a school captain.
Um so uh just for forlisteners, the um the
(06:50):
fingernails grow at a rate ofroughly 3.5 millimeters per
month, whereas the toenails are1.6 millimeters per month.
So pretty much double the paceis what your fingernails grow
at.
Um okay, question number three.
The white part of a nail thatyou cut off is called which of
(07:11):
the following?
A free edge, b free entry, or cfree range.
Free edge.
Yep, that's correct.
Yeah.
I thought I was making itreasonably obvious.
Yeah, that wasn't there.
Um anyway, so how'd you go athome?
(07:32):
Please let us know.
We're having a lot of fun withthis.
Today's guest knows a thing ortwo about balance, not just in
life, but on the trails, thehills, and, dare I say it, the
unpredictable streets ofMelbourne.
Her running journey is one thatunfolds quietly, no fanfare,
just the genuine love of gettingout the door for a run a few
times a week.
Between shifting routines andsome truly unforgettable
(07:54):
adventures, her story is theepitome of running on your own
terms.
Can we please all welcome EvaBertram?
Welcome, Eva.
Eva (08:02):
Yeah, welcome, Eva.
Thank you for having me, guys.
I'm very excited to be on umthe podcast with both of you and
look forward to talking aboutum one of our loves, running.
Joshie (08:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Awesome.
Great to have you.
Now, look, Eva, you've had sucha broad mix of running
experiences over the years, andit certainly predates the
running boom.
Um, what can you tell us aboutwhat first sparked your interest
in the sport?
Eva (08:31):
Yeah, I suppose it was the initial initial response to
wanting to be mentally okay andum just getting out and getting
some fresh air, and then thatlove turned into running wanting
to run an event.
I've never had run an eventbefore.
(08:51):
Um, and I suppose the first runthat I did was run for the
kids, and that was when you canrun through the bolties.
So, this is in Melbourne.
Matty (08:59):
Oh, cool, yeah.
Eva (09:00):
Yeah, so that was awesome.
And I actually had a a mentor,and she was the one who inspired
me to start running, to run foran event.
So I actually started trainingwith her for that first run, and
unfortunately, she got aninjury midway through our
training, and I thought, how amI gonna do this without her?
(09:23):
But obviously, I love aroutine, so I just kept on at
it, and um, I did my first run,run for the kids.
So that was brilliant 2016.
So a bit of a late bloomer whenit comes to running.
Um, growing up, I wasn't reallya sports-oriented kind of gal.
Um, I did netball throughschool and um and then not
(09:48):
really too much after that.
Matty (09:50):
So you didn't you didn't run at school?
Eva (09:53):
No, I was I'm quite small, as in stature, as in lots of
other things.
So I was quite um I was fast atsprinting, but um then that I
suppose that sort of died off asI got to my teenage years, um,
being a girl and things sort oflike wobbling around.
I was just um took a back seatand didn't really run as much.
(10:17):
Um didn't really do lots ofsport until obviously um my
later 20s, early 30s, and that'swhen I sort of, yeah, the love
of running sparked then.
And then from that initial runI then worked towards doing a
(10:37):
half marathon, um, did amarathon and um moved to Western
Australia where I lived inBroome, and that was really
interesting.
Um speaking of community, Iactually joined a running
community up there, and theyeven like sparked my love for
(10:59):
trail running, and that'sprobably where trail running
began for me.
Joshie (11:05):
What what was it like running in the heat?
I didn't know you lived inBroome.
What was it like running in theheat and the humidity up there?
Yeah, because it's hot.
Eva (11:13):
Oh, it is hot, so I suppose everywhere you have to run with
a camelback, even if it's likeyou know, five kilometers.
Joshie (11:20):
Wow.
Eva (11:21):
So we'd get up really early, like 4 30 in the morning.
Probably that's not early forsome people, but I suppose you
have to beat the heat there.
Dry season was a lot better torun in, just wet season, yeah,
you definitely have to hydrate,hydrate, hydrate.
Um, but we'd stop off at placesalong the way we needed to
(11:41):
gather more water.
And um the running groupstarted off only like there were
six of us, and then by the timeI sort of left the room and
just expanded, they started tomake their own t-shirts, and it
was just oh cool, yeah, a reallybeautiful community.
And because I moved up there todo teaching, I didn't know
anyone, and that was my sort ofsense of family um and support
(12:06):
network there.
Joshie (12:07):
Okay.
Eva (12:07):
So so they sparked different kinds of running which
I'd never sort of thoughtabout, and um yeah, and I'm
still friends with a lot ofthem, and we don't see each
other as often, unfortunately,but we're still in contact with
like what events are happeningand things like that.
So, yeah, without them, I don'tknow what I would have done.
(12:29):
And having running as a passionfor all of us, I think, sort of
made us connect together.
Matty (12:35):
Yeah.
Like my cool, yeah, definitely,yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joshie (12:40):
It's amazing.
The more people I talk to thatI mean, I've only taken up
running in the last few years,and so all I really know is the
local running scene, theBrisbane community.
But it seems as though there'srunning communities pretty much
everywhere, even in relativelysmall regional centres, which I
think's fantastic.
Um a truly universal activity,I think probably nothing
(13:03):
competes with running.
Matty (13:05):
And I think it it it it's a beautiful thing in terms of
the like those groups and thosecommunities, everyone within
them um is doing it for similaror different reasons, but
there's always reasons.
Um it's not just to run, itit's more than that.
Eva (13:21):
Yeah, definitely.
And I suppose that's likecommonality, and then you find
other interests, like you know,you'll be running for a long
amount of time, so you'll justrun and chat, and you find other
things that align, then youstart to do, especially Broom is
a very small community, so youstart to do things together.
So, yeah, it does become a bitmore like a family network.
Matty (13:43):
It is, yeah.
Joshie (13:45):
Now, either you're someone who runs without Strava,
you don't have a watch, notreally fussed on data, or I
think you have run key things,which is so you can keep some
kind of track of it.
Yeah, I know.
Um what what impact has thathad on how you connect with
running this, you know, trulysort of um, you know, if I can
call it naked running?
Eva (14:06):
Yeah, I I haven't I'm not up to with all the tech and
everything, which I should be.
My probably age bracket, Ishould be all over it.
But I just find when I'mrunning, I'm running for me, I'm
running for clarity.
Like I feel the best in themorning when I'm going out for a
run.
And yes, I do want to keepcertain times and I do want to
(14:28):
do better, but I also want tojust know that my head is clear
for that day.
So um when I was doingobviously like my half marathons
and marathons, I would watchthe time, but I think now it's
sort of tapered off time.
I just want to get out there,and at least if I can, you know,
(14:48):
run three to five times a week,I'm happy.
Yeah, I'm not really pushingfor pace.
So I think um, Josh, when Ispoke to you before, in regards
to you, I've had Run Keeper,that's the only app that I've
had since 2016, and um, sothat's got all my runs on it.
I did have a running watch, butthen something happened and it
(15:12):
broke, and I was like, well, Ididn't really need that, you
know.
So um I do track the time whenI obviously I hit on Runkeeper,
and I do briefly look at like mysplits at you know, if I'm
going incline, okay, how did Igo there and things like that?
But to analyze it, yeah, I justlove running.
Matty (15:35):
So I think that's gonna become a thing, you know.
People that are like they haveit in terms of like surfers,
like soul surfers.
Um they're gonna be these soulrunners that just run without
any uh device on them to trackit, track anything.
It's interesting, I canactually see that happening as a
(15:55):
as a movement.
Eva (15:56):
Yeah, definitely.
And where I am, sometimes it'snot the safest to run, like you
know, if you're distracted bysomething.
So I've never run with music,like I think maybe a few times I
have, but I just I sort of knowthe streets and I can hear what
(16:20):
type of birds are chirping atwhat time.
So I know if a bird is chirpinglike like in front of me, I
know that there's someone upthere.
So like I think that is myindicator as well when I'm
trying to be safe early in themorning.
Matty (16:37):
That's that's really that's really in tune.
That's amaz that's amazing.
Eva (16:42):
Yeah, so I suppose you appreciate it even more, and
yeah, it's yeah.
Joshie (16:48):
So yeah, like Maddie said, that's that's a level of
being attuned to yoursurroundings in your environment
that I've I've not heard ofbefore.
That's uh and maybe that'sbecause I take my safety for
granted, but um that'sincredible even.
It sounds like you've had acouple of incidents of late
that's you know probablyheightened your like a sense of
(17:09):
awareness.
Eva (17:11):
Yes.
Um, yeah, there was an incidentum a few months ago that I was
running around the streets.
And if I run early in themorning, I tend to run where
there's street lights.
Like I won't we are sofortunate we live right across
the Marabanong River, and I loverunning along the river, but I
won't do it when it's early inthe morning because there's no
(17:33):
lights.
Joshie (17:34):
Yeah.
Eva (17:34):
But um, this other time I was just running my normal route
um around near the streetlights, and um, yeah, this
obviously heavily intoxicateddrug-affected person came behind
me and was just swinging thismassive umbrella, had like a
spike at the the top of it, andwas just calling obscene things,
(17:58):
chasing after me.
Oh my god, I was so scared.
Yeah, I ran.
Luckily, there was a cafe thatwas open at that hour on the
corner.
I ran to that cafe and I juststayed in there.
I just waited in there until ummy partner came and I was just,
yeah, my heart was racing, butI knew I'd be safe in there.
(18:18):
Um, yeah.
So I just have to be carefulabout where I run and therefore,
obviously, you know, notrunning.
As I said, I don't run withmusic and I haven't for a very,
very long time, if ever, like ahandful of times.
But yeah, just to be mindfulbecause it's unfortunate that
that is the world we live in,but it's not gonna take away our
(18:42):
love for running.
Matty (18:44):
Totally agree.
Joshie (18:45):
I'm sorry to hear that eva.
That's awful.
Um I can't imagine goingthrough something like that.
No.
Eva (18:52):
No, but uh yeah, we do we do it, and then shit happens and
you get over it and you go foranother run another time.
Matty (19:00):
But that shit shouldn't happen.
Like, you know, I I you you cango back like 20 years, 30 years
ago.
You used to leave your frontdoor unlocked.
You leave it open.
Like, where are those daysgone?
Yeah, it shouldn't happen, itshouldn't be happening.
Joshie (19:14):
No, just an unfortunate reality.
I mean, as much as we'd like tosay that these things shouldn't
happen, it does.
And so, you know, um, I thinkit's sensible to take
precautions, it's just uh it'sjust one hell of an unfortunate
reality.
That's right.
Um look, uh shifting gearssomewhat, you were running well
(19:35):
and uh well and truly before thepost-COVID boom, as I mentioned
before, um, having sort of beenrunning since 2015 or 16.
Um one adventure that you and Ium chatted about before uh
before today that I really wantto hear more about is Point to
Pinnacle, which was only heldjust recently.
Um I'd never heard of it, bythe way, until you mentioned it
(19:55):
to me.
Um that uh yeah, actually afriend of mine was just down in
in uh actually I won't spoilwhere it is, I'll let you talk
about uh about the event.
Eva (20:03):
Thanks, Josh.
Joshie (20:04):
Yep.
Eva (20:04):
Um yeah, Point to Pinnacle, oh my god, what an amazing run!
So it actually starts at thebase in Hobart and you run right
up Matt Wellington.
Joshie (20:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eva (20:14):
So um, yeah, that's just a really cool run because
obviously you get to the top,and then once you get to the
top, you've reached your halfmarathon, and then the bus is
waiting for you, and the bustakes you down.
So um all hill.
All hill, Matt.
Matty (20:33):
So the training for that was of course I'd love it.
Uh I'd embrace it.
Maybe it can't even walk up hisfront steps.
Joshie (20:44):
There you go.
Eva (20:45):
All right, November next year.
That's when the next run is.
Joshie (20:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Eva (20:53):
Yeah.
Joshie (20:54):
They just they just had it um recently.
Uh do yourselves a favor, guys,um, and anyone who's listening,
and I think it's still there,have a look at the website and
the elevation map.
It's in reverse.
When you look at the elevationmap from left to right, it looks
like it descends, but that'snot the way you can run.
No, no.
So it's quite comical.
(21:14):
And I saw it, I went, oh, thislooks pretty darn easy.
Just run downhill for 1300meters.
Um, but uh no, it's uh 13 1300meters of climbing and uh good
on your attack.
Yeah, can you can you rememberwhat your time was?
Eva (21:31):
Oh god, to be honest, no.
Oh, it would have been like twohours two and a half hours or
something.
Matty (21:40):
But that's that's a sort of event I can that's a sort of
event that you're just um it'sabout finishing.
Yeah, yeah.
Eva (21:47):
Oh definitely, yeah.
Because I was like, I just wantto accomplish this.
And I think I'll say it to you,Josh, as well, there was people
beside me that were runningwith someone in the pram,
pushing it up, and I'm like, ohmy god, I I am like struggling
here, but they just look make itlook so easy.
And I was like, kudos to them.
(22:07):
So, you know, it just goes toshow as well mind.
The mind does amazing things,our bodies will follow that it
acts our mind that just says,keep going.
Don't worry about that sorefoot, just keep going.
Matty (22:19):
Well, in in terms of that, like your training, like
was there lots of traininginvolved within um like like to
prepare for that?
And and it's uh if so, was itlots of hills, lots of hill
runs?
Eva (22:32):
Yes.
So where um I used to live inBack Smarch, I don't know if you
sort of know the area, but itis there's not really any flat
areas there.
So that's the best fortraining.
So I'd just do like hill runs,training, um, and then would
alternate that between, youknow, sort of a distance run,
dancing hills, and I had apartner as well training for the
(22:55):
same event, so that made it alot easier, and um, we regularly
trained together.
So without her, like I couldn'thave done it, she couldn't have
done it.
Um so but definitely it wasyeah, it was one great event
that I'm so happy that I'vedone.
Uh would I do that again?
(23:16):
Probably not, no.
Um, whereas other runs I havedefinitely redone like time and
time again.
So, but um, yeah, definitely arun to remember once you get up
there, the view, and obviouslybecause it gets so cold once you
get closer to the top andyou're sweating, and so that was
(23:38):
another challenge as well.
Yeah, so we knew that that wasgoing to happen.
Um and then by then you justokay, once you reach the top,
just want a cold drink, I wantsomething to eat, I want a
shower, but it's also thoseendorphins be like, hey, we
actually did this, yeah, youknow.
Joshie (23:58):
Yeah.
So you know, either uh mostpeople most people who are in
their sort of um twenties andthirties when it comes to New
Year's Eve, they sort of youknow find what local party scene
there is.
Uh you decided to bring in uh aNew Year's in a very unique
way.
Uh can you tell us about Runthe Clock?
Eva (24:16):
Yeah, so Run the Clock um was an event out in the Yu
Yangs.
So in like national park area,just probably an hour's drive
from Melbourne, and it's abeautiful area.
It's one of my happy placesbecause they've got so many
different tracks there.
You can hike there, you can BMXthere, you can run there.
Um, and one year, it was 2018,they had a New Year's where you
(24:40):
run into New Year's.
So, and there is got so manydifferent like um elevations.
There's it's like trailrunning, but there's boulders
that you have to go over.
Joshie (24:51):
Oh, cool.
Eva (24:52):
So um, two girlfriends and I, so the three of us, we signed
up for it, and we'll just belike, you know, we'll try it.
What's the worst that's gonnahappen?
So um we started, I think theystarted around seven, and then
you have obviously you had untilmidnight to do it.
We finished probably like say9:30, it got a little bit dark
in there.
(25:12):
Um, but that was just so coolbecause it was such a small
event.
I don't know how many peoplewould have even been in it.
I think like 30, maybe 40,because the track is not it's
not a very big track.
And it I don't know how I foundit.
I found it on some website, butit wasn't a well-known one.
(25:32):
And maybe because they didn'thave insurance out of them.
Um because all they had at thetop, like when you sort of
finished, was just like a coupleof gazebos, um, some like
strobe lights, and um that wasit.
But people got dressed up, andthere was people wearing
costumes and things like that.
(25:53):
So that was a really coolevent.
And at the end, you got alittle like necklace, and on
your necklace, like yourlanyard, you had a uh thing of
bubbles.
So that was your post into thenew year.
Cool.
So um yeah, that was a reallycool half event, a half
marathon, and then they weresaying to Josh in the last one
kilometer, because likeobviously there's so many things
(26:15):
you have to run over, jumpover, climb over.
The last kilometer, I scrapedmy I fell down and I had this
big gush on my knee, and it'sonly until like obviously you
finished you sort of stopped andlike, oh, what was that wet
thing?
Oh gush on my knee, yeah.
Um but that was it, definitelyone to remember, and I'm very
(26:38):
lucky that I had so the personthat I did um my the Tassie run
with, and then another girl thatI did um hanging rock run, I
sort of like it was the three ofus.
So they didn't know each other,and then we all then we came
together and we had oh, this iscool, you know.
(26:58):
We have a package for running.
So then we were able to do someother vents together.
Matty (27:04):
That's really cool.
Joshie (27:05):
So did you tell me I think it's the Yu Yangs, you
said they're about it's about anhour from Melbourne.
I think you can see the lightsof both Geelong and Melbourne
from the top.
Did you say that you could likesee the fireworks from both
cities?
Eva (27:18):
Yes, yes.
So at the top, when you get tothe top, you can see a view from
um Geelong, so also like alongthe foreshore, and then you can
see Melbourne.
So it's a pretty cool space.
So if anyone can get over to,you know, if they come visit
Melbourne, it's always a goodplace to go to for a run, hike,
bike, whatever, picnic,anything.
Joshie (27:41):
Wow.
Yeah, I grew up in Melbourneand I can't even remember
visiting.
Oh, really?
Josh.
Yeah, no, but I I know I wentto Geelong, you know, many
times, but I sort of think, youknow, that the my visits to
Geelong were to watch a game ofum football.
Yes, the hawks pretty muchalways always lost there, and
yeah, dad was pretty darn keento get home after that.
Eva (28:01):
Yeah.
He didn't want to stump off theU Yangs.
Joshie (28:04):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think after it, yeah, afterbeing belted by Geelong, you're
pretty keen just to get homenow.
Yeah, to juggle um life routineand uh finding balance lately,
um, you know, make some somequite big adjustments.
Um, what would you say has beenthe hardest part about not
running as much as you'd liketo?
Eva (28:27):
Um, I suppose not having an event to look forward to.
Like I think it's taken a backseat, which it it won't be
forever, it's just for now.
So um as you get to a certainage, and then you know, you want
to have your fan a family ofyour own.
So the last three years we'vebeen trying to have a family of
(28:50):
our own, and we've obviously hadto have extra support through
IVF.
So um running has sort of takena backseat.
It's always there in thebackground, like I'm still a
part of my routine.
However, um, it's not like oh,I have an event, like I'll I'll
go and do this, you know, I'lltrain for this, I'll push my
body because just tests thatI've done and everything have
(29:14):
said that I'm over-exerting uhmy body, therefore, it's not a
like not a place that I can havea child in my body.
I don't know, I don't know thetechnical terms, but yeah.
So um, yeah, therefore tryingto balance um all of these
medications, you know,injections, hormones, and all of
(29:37):
that without um yeah, withoutstill having that whole removal
of running, but still includingit.
So therefore my runs areobviously a lot shorter.
I can't get to a certain bodytemperature, so there and runs
are slower, slower pace.
(29:58):
So that's where I suppose theadjustments are for now, not
forever, but until we sort ofget our family started.
Joshie (30:07):
Yeah.
So I'm going to I guess show hownaive I am when it comes to
IVF.
I mean, are these adjustmentsthat you've only recently made,
or has that been from the startof your journey three years ago
that you basically had to uhpull right back on your running
commitments?
Eva (30:24):
Yeah, at the start probably did because it was the focus
had shifted more onto okay, wellI need to look after my body.
However, I was running a lotmore lot more kilometres more
frequently, but probably in thelast six months because I've had
(30:44):
to have like a fertilitydietitian, um, had multiple
tests, and yes, in they've saidlike my body's under a certain
amount of stress, and maybe I'mnot fueling it properly.
Um I can still run.
So I said to my optetrician,like, obviously, I've been a
runner for a long time.
He's like, you can still run,you just can't run to exert, you
(31:08):
know, a certain percentage ofyour fuel and output and things
like that.
So um, but trying to compensatethat as well, so to have
running, and also I do likePilode Pilodis.
That's a new one.
Yoga and Pilates, Pilotis.
Um Pilates and yoga as well, totry and still maintain that
(31:35):
flexibility.
Um and yeah, so I probablydidn't even answer your
question, sorry.
Joshie (31:42):
Uh no, you you did.
Um, okay.
Uh so is that the same with Iguess uh weights and um other
forms of cross-training that youjust really have to pull back
on the um level of intensity.
Eva (31:55):
Yeah, and I obviously I love yoga and anything I can get
a sweat up.
So I was doing hot yoga.
Oh yeah.
You can't do that anymore.
Um you can't go into a saunaanymore.
Um, so those types of thingsthat just love getting a sweat
up.
Obviously, like running is agood sweat up, but yeah, just
(32:16):
have to pull back on those andtherefore amend like my um
fitness regime and um diet.
So trying to um beef up alittle bit um with in terms of
like different like body fat andthings like that.
(32:37):
Um yeah, and hopefully still beable to run.
I'm like obviously my body isstill good, I can still run,
just I can't um sign up foranything too much at the moment.
Joshie (32:55):
Um now you have a a partner that also runs, mind
you, not quite as quick as you.
Um, how important would you saythat is having a shared
understanding in a relationshipwhen two people both want to use
running as a as an outlet?
Eva (33:11):
Oh, definitely.
Like he loves running, he justdoesn't love running first thing
in the morning, or he doesn'tlove running when it's cold.
Whereas to me, it's likethere's no bad weather, it's
just bad clothing.
So um when yeah, obviously,when we were first um obviously,
yeah, knew that we both enjoyedrunning, then that was perfect.
(33:36):
And it still is like I think Iinspire him and he inspires me.
So we both know how good itfeels when we're running, and
when we run together, it'sactually it it is quite nice
because that's a time when wecan actually just have a chat
and we might get things off ourchest while we're running.
(33:57):
Um, but because we're bothdoing that and we're both
feeling great, it's a it's agood time to chat rather than
you know, late at night when youboth come home, you've had a
busy day at work, and then youjust want to bring up these
things that you thought about,you know, just doing over two
hours ago.
Joshie (34:14):
Yeah.
Eva (34:14):
So I think um, yeah, it that's that's why um probably
one definitely positive thingthat we have in our
relationship, lots of otherthings that we do, but I think
running is yeah, is definitelysomething that we're we love and
we want to encourage each otherto keep pursuing that.
Joshie (34:35):
Yeah.
So can I ask a reallyprovocative question?
You'll be able to tell that Ihaven't prepared this one.
Do you prefer to run with yourpartner or run without him?
You can't prefer it.
Eva (34:49):
You should ask you to know the answer.
Well, yeah, he will know.
Um, preferably when the sun isout and when we're on a track
going round, I'll run with him.
But when we're running throughthe street and we have to go
like across a busy road, then Irun by myself.
(35:12):
And you'll get the sameresponse because he'll just, you
know, dart through certainthings, go in front of a car.
Whereas I can still yeah, I candart through cars, but I'll go
down to a safer space to crossthe road, and then I get you
know frustrated with him, and hegets frustrated with me that I
have to catch up.
So, in those instances, I'mgonna sit on the fence here, I
(35:35):
will run by myself, but whenwe're doing, like, you know, if
we're doing laps around a trackor something like that, then
yeah, we'll run together.
Or we actually went on aholiday um a few weeks ago.
We actually came up to the GoldCoast and um yeah, so we did a
couple of runs together, andthat's so nice, you know,
(35:58):
exploring different placestogether.
And so that's yeah, I just whenI'm running with him, I like to
run on a path, um, not weepingthrough traffic.
Joshie (36:14):
Skyline.
Uh, do you want to run with me?
This is what we're doing.
Um I think uh Eva, you've uhbeen fantastic today.
I think the only thing Iprobably don't agree with is
there not being such a thing asbad weather.
I grew I grew up in the August.
Uh I'm not sure that I agreewith that.
But certainly more than that.
No, but it's not like the cold.
Eva (36:35):
Oh no.
No, I don't like the cold.
Joshie (36:38):
Well then why are you living up here, dude?
I mean, you like yeah youcompla you complaining all the
time about the hot weather andyou have that like 11 months of
the year.
Eva (36:48):
Yeah, you can't win.
I don't know where's the idealplace to live, but um yeah.
Joshie (36:54):
Now, Eva, there is one adventure that you haven't
mentioned, which I'm keen toexplore, and that's your Kokoda
experience.
What can you tell us aboutthat?
Eva (37:02):
Yeah, this came probably when I got back from Broome.
Like I wanted to do anothermarathon.
Um, and I looked at eitherdoing Feral Pig, which is over
in WA.
And then someone suggested tome, have you ever thought of
hiking?
And I thought, hmm, that's likea slow version of running.
Joshie (37:25):
That's a bit that should be boring.
Eva (37:28):
And I'm like, oh yeah, I I do like being out in nature,
like that's one of my things.
And then I thought, oh, thensomeone suggested, have you
thought of Kakoda?
And because I loved thecommunity that I met over in
Broom, and I love the fact thatyou're running with the
community, you're meeting thecommunity.
So then um I had six months andI signed up to do Kokoda, and
(37:52):
it was one of the bestexperiences ever, I suppose.
Um, I had the fitness levelbecause I had been running, so
it was fine to you know do thetracks and things like that, but
I think it's more about thepeople that you met along the
way.
The eldest was um John, he was67, and the youngest was 16.
(38:14):
So what they do is they get ascholarship, so there were four
children to go um and do codeart.
Matty (38:24):
And it's 96 96 kilometers, isn't it?
Eva (38:28):
Yeah, oh god, I can't can't even remember now.
Joshie (38:31):
Yeah, it's um over what time frame do you do you run it?
Do you like it?
Like I was asking over what uhtime period.
Eva (38:40):
Uh it was 10 days.
So it's a 10 day.
So you hike, I think roughlylike the longest stay we did was
like 18 kilometers a day.
But it's just I suppose peopleget to camp when they get to
camp.
Like some people get therefirst.
You sort of want to be one ofthe first people to get there
(39:01):
first because then you can setup your tent, um, you can, you
know, go and have a shower inthe in the creek, have a wash in
the creek, um, have somethingto drink, and then just enjoy
people's company, like we playedcards and things like that.
Um, so yeah, so when I took abreak or just changed it up a
(39:24):
little bit, that's what I did,and um, I met some awesome
people along the way.
Matty (39:30):
And do you walk all day every day for those 10 days?
Eva (39:34):
Yes.
So some days that you get up atlike 3 a.m.
There obviously you need thethe torch, the headlamp.
Um and it's quite wet, nothingdries because it's humid, you're
sweating, so we would have afire at nighttime, and everyone
put their boots and sockshanging out, and um, but then in
(39:56):
the morning you just put themback on and it's still quite
damp.
Um, and then you pretty muchjust recycle a couple pairs of
like leggings, some tights, acouple of tops, and um yeah, you
get along your merry way andyou keep going and they stop at
certain spots and we reflect onthe history of the place.
(40:20):
Yeah, and uh yeah, but umthat's uh yeah, that was great,
and I'm glad that I got to be apart of that.
Um so that's yeah, change fromrunning, um, and then I came
back and got back into runningagain.
But hiking's always a nice, youknow, intermittent thing, I
(40:43):
suppose.
You're still out with natureand exploring.
Joshie (40:49):
Eva, we could we could talk to you all day, we really
could.
Um we'd like to truly thank youfrom the bottom of our hearts
for taking the time to speakwith us today.
Um, and we really hope that youand your partner are successful
with your um with IBS.
Um yeah, look, your honor, youruh honor your honesty, humour,
(41:11):
and love for running for thesake of running is um is why why
the sport matters.
It's um been an absolute joyspeaking with you.
Thanks so much for once again.
Eva (41:20):
Thank you both for having me.
Matty (41:22):
No, thanks for being a part of it.
It's yeah, it was really good.
Eva (41:25):
Oh, well, you come back after talking about running, you
know, you just feel like youwant to take on the next event.
So thanks for sharing thatpassion.
Joshie (41:33):
Yeah, definitely.
Thank you, Eva.
Eva (41:36):
Thanks, guys.
Joshie (41:37):
Thank you.
See ya.
My goodness, Maddie, what aninspiration Eva is.
I love her experiences.
I had no idea about Kakoda.
Um, run the clock.
Run the clock was amazing.
Uh getting a wine-fillednecklace um as your medal when
you get to the top.
Um, yeah, I mean, you know me,Maddie, I don't mind a drink
(41:59):
from time to time, but I thinkI'd want to drink a bit more
than a small bottle of wine.
I think I'd want a one literone liter bottle of gin waiting
for me to be slung across myneck.
But you know, drink Maddie,what what would incentivize you
would be chocolates, lollies,maybe chocolates.
Matty (42:14):
I normally after after an event um that I've done, you
know, people obviously go backand go to the pub and have a few
beers.
Well, I go and buy chocolateand eat chocolate.
Joshie (42:25):
What about honey grates of cashews?
You'd love that as well.
Matty (42:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they're always good before.
Joshie (42:31):
Yeah, it's working you'd love.
Imagine they flying a pair ofadded that's property cost of
it.
It's another thing.
Uh today, you've got to run thelatest four stories of your own
weekly.
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