October 21, 2025 • 59 mins
Episode Description
Runners slow down with age, right? Despite being tech-savvy, Mark Wigglesworth never got that brief.
After taking up running in his early 60s, Mark has gone from casual jogs and the occasional parkrun, to routinely clocking over 100 kilometres a week; regularly topping his age group and rewriting what’s possible later in life. But behind the stats lies a story of grit, resilience, and true self-belief.
In this uplifting episode of Runbelievable, Joshie and Matty sit down with a runner whose drive and discipline prove that it’s never too late to start. From a health scare that could have stopped him in his tracks to marathon adventures across the globe, Mark’s story shows that passion doesn’t retire... and that running can rebuild far more than fitness.
In this episode:
- How Mark found running, and why he started in his 60s
- Building the routine, discipline, and mindset for 100km+ weeks
- The health scare that could have derailed it all
- What keeps him chasing improvement every single day
- The improbable goal he’s working towards
Runbelievable: real runners, unreal stories.
Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/rnblv_official/
Got a Runbelievable story or interested in being a guest on the show? Hit us up on socials or email us at joshua@runbelievable.au
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joshie (00:07):
Now, I've got no idea whether it was runfluences or
maybe 1982 Deks that inspiredme, but jeez, these shorts were
short.
My goodness.
All you could see when I waswearing them was like this
translucent flesh on my upperthigh that had clearly never
seen the light of day.
Hello everybody and welcome toRun Believable, the podcast
(00:31):
where everyday runners sharetheir not-so-everyday stories.
I'm your host, Josh Richon, andI'm here to bring you stories
of grit, glory, and overcomingadversity.
Each episode we'll dive deepinto what first got people
running and what kept themlacing up day after day.
From the laughs and the lessonsto wearing shorts that reveal
you don't actually have a firegap.
(00:52):
We're here to share what makesrunning a truly human
experience.
And later in this episode,you'll meet a runner who's the
epiphany of you're never too oldto start running.
They say never meet yourheroes, but failing any
connectivity issues, we'll besitting down with one of mine in
a few moments' time.
Maddie, welcome back.
(01:13):
I know how excited you arewhenever you get behind the mic.
How are you on this lovely day?
Matty (01:19):
Yeah, good thanks, Joshy.
Um, really well, thanks.
Uh so yeah, everything's goingwell.
Joshie (01:24):
Now, before we kick off, I do want to give our growing
band of listeners a shout out.
Now, look, it's no secret,Maddie, that we're based in
Brisbane and most of our earlylisteners are from this region.
But I actually checked thismorning, and somewhere between
five and ten percent of ourlisteners are in the Sydney
region.
Now, I yeah, I'm not personallyconnected with any runners in
(01:47):
that part of um the the world.
So if you are indeed tuning infrom Sydney, I hope this message
finds you well, and please hitus up on Instagram.
We would love to hear from you.
Now, Maddie, let's get stuckinto the Runbelievable rundown.
And just a reminder, this iswhere we share highlights,
mishaps, and little wins, thekind of stuff that Strava simply
(02:11):
can't capture.
Now, during the week, I put upa poll on our Instagram page
asking if anyone had experienceda chafing DNF.
And to my utter amazement, veryfew had.
Now, apparently, Maddie, you'veactually never even had
chafing.
How is that even possible?
I don't know.
Matty (02:32):
I've I've never had it.
I've always worn tights um fromthe moment that I started
running.
Um, whether that's uh the theanswer, I don't know.
Um we talking like Robin Hoodmen in tights, tights.
I did when I first startedrunning, I did wear long tights
um because I started running inwinter.
Um and then I stopped when itbecame summer and had a bit of a
break.
So, but now it's just um likesort of what do you call them?
(02:57):
Like short tights.
Joshie (02:58):
Yeah.
Matty (02:58):
Um yeah, they they work for me.
Joshie (03:00):
So um yeah, never experienced it.
I don't know how that'spossible because chafing seems
to be the bane of pretty muchevery runner, myself included.
And actually, that that pollthat I put out did actually get
me thinking a little bit aboutmy own chafing experiences, and
I actually recall the very firstone that I had, which was a
truly horrendous experience.
Um when I started running, Iwould run in whatever felt
(03:24):
comfortable.
I really didn't care about howI looked.
But there came a point in timewhere I became, I don't know, a
little bit more self-conscious,I guess you'd say.
Uh, and I got hooked onwatching running videos.
Now, I've got no idea whetherit was Runfluences or maybe 1982
Deks that inspired me to buythese like three-inch split
(03:46):
shorts.
Um it was D's.
I think it probably was D.
Surely it's got to make me afaster runner, Maddie, wearing
big things, but geez, theseshorts were short.
My goodness.
All you could see when I waswearing them was like this
translucent flesh on my upperthigh that had clearly never
seen the light of day.
Um by the time I realised itwas too late, I'd already turned
(04:07):
up at parkruns.
So anyway, I was undeterred.
I thought, why not give it ashot?
It was Xilmir Parkrun, my firstand only ever um attendance
there.
And look, they don't get thatmany people there, and I was so
intent on finishing in the topten.
So off we go, bounding acrossthe paddock like a gazelle.
But Maddie, within about 800metres, I noticed this
(04:29):
horrendous burning sensationbetween my legs.
It turns out that those dearold thighs of mine needed
slightly more than three inchesof protection.
So chafed like a motherfucker.
I shit walked the rest of thecourse, barely making it outside
the bottom 10.
Now, I've learned a lot oflessons since then, um, and my
(04:51):
goodness, uh, to those fellowrunners who have experienced
chafe, which is pretty much allof you, I'm imagining I imagine.
Any tips, let us know.
I am still to this day tryingto work out how best to avoid
it.
Matty (05:04):
What about like you can get that um skin glide and you
can get you can put Vaselinethere?
Does that do anything?
Joshie (05:10):
I've tried, but it's weird.
It's almost as if I don't know,my body seems to find new
vulnerable spots to experiencechafe.
Um, look, we could talk aboutthis all day.
Um we've got our guests eagerlywaiting for us.
So look, if you've gotsomething that you'd like to
contribute to the unbelievablerundown, whether that's a
(05:31):
chafing war story or whatever,then send it our way.
Now, Maddie, we're going to trya new segment this episode.
I am completely done with overand under.
Yeah.
Um, not least because you'realmost impossible to trip up.
So I am sorry, I know that youreally love that segment, but
we're gonna try something newtoday.
(05:53):
It's a game that I call shoe amI.
Matty (05:57):
So shoes and what type of shoe, I guess.
Joshie (06:01):
Well, the way it works is as follows.
I'm going to give you up tofive clues to guess the make and
model of a running shoe.
So, for example, the Nike AlphaFly 3.
Obviously, that's not going tobe the answer, but just to give
you an idea of what we'relooking for.
Now, you'll get five points ifyou get the answer correct after
(06:24):
one clue, four points after twoclues, so on and so forth.
Now, if you guess incorrectlyat any point, you will score
zero points.
Does that make sense?
Matty (06:35):
Yep, makes sense.
Joshie (06:37):
Cool.
So feel free to play along athome and see if you can beat
Maddie, who fancies himself as abit of a shoe geek.
Let's play shoe am I.
Clue number one.
I was released in 2022 andcontained an S-curved nylon
plate.
Would you like to have a guessnow for five points?
Matty (07:00):
An S-curved nylon plate.
Joshie (07:02):
S-curved.
Um just a reminder, if you'reguessing correctly, that's zero
points.
Yeah, another clone.
Alright, for four points.
My offset, that is, heel to toedrop, was eight millimeters.
It is with a stack height ofthirty-six mil and four foot of
(07:25):
twenty-eight.
Matty (07:26):
Okay.
I might have a guess.
Joshie (07:39):
That is incorrect.
I'll tell you what, I'll letyou have one incorrect guess.
We'll keep playing that forthree points, Maddie.
I boasted advanced propulsionfrom proprietary technology
called speed roll geometry.
Matty (07:56):
Speed roll.
I've never heard of that term.
Joshie (08:00):
Um this is fantastic, by the way.
I love tricky.
Is it um New Balance SuperCompolete?
It is not New Balance SuperCompilete.
So that's zero points.
If you're still playing alongat home, for two points, our
fourth clue.
At standard means US size nine.
(08:22):
I weighed 230 grams.
Okay.
And last clue for one point, mymanufacturer name poorly rhymes
with the word androgyny.
Maddie, did you want to have ago withrogy?
I did say poorly rhymes.
I honestly don't know.
Well, this website it said thatit was a 92% rhyme with the
(08:44):
manufacturer name.
Matty (08:46):
Manufacturer name androgyny.
Joshie (08:48):
Yeah, so apparently it 92% rhymes with the word
androgyny.
Matty (08:52):
I don't I still don't know.
Joshie (08:53):
So I am the Sukoni Endorphin Speed.
Okay, that didn't even pop intomy head.
People have been screaming intotheir phones right now.
Yeah.
Um how did you go at home?
Feel free to let us know.
Today's guest is yet to learnwhat the word aging means.
A late starter to running, hisfeats continue to baffle sports
(09:15):
scientists, getting fitter,stronger, and faster, despite
being in his mid-sixties.
He's built an engine that mostof us can only dream of,
routinely clocking well over ahundred kilometres a week, and
topping his age grade at highlycompetitive events.
But behind the numbers lies astory of tenacity, resilience,
(09:36):
and remarkable self-belief.
And I truly can't wait to sitdown and speak with him.
Please let's all welcome theone and only Mark Wigglesworth.
Matty (09:45):
Good to have you, Mark.
Joshie (09:46):
Thanks for the intro.
Mark (09:48):
Does that sound like me?
I'd understand if this wasepisode 173, but I've I've
listened to all your podcasts sofar, and they're they're
surprisingly very professional.
I think you got you two guyshave got a good rapport going.
That that's what makes it.
Joshie (10:06):
Well we have yeah, we want to give you the gold
standard introduction.
We're not going to wait tillepisode 160 before you're taking
me back.
Mark (10:14):
I might I might have a bit more of my story.
Joshie (10:17):
Mark, uh correct me if I'm wrong, but you took up
running in your 60s whilst manyof your peers were taking up
bingo.
What kick started your journey?
Mark (10:25):
Legs 11.
Uh I used to go to bingo withmy grandma.
That uh no, why why did I takeup running?
Um actually, yeah, look, I I'mno couch potato.
I I used to play a lot ofsquash.
I did so I did that in my 20sand 30s.
And just just like probably youguys are going through now or
(10:48):
have have been through recently,um, kids came along and
suddenly I could didn't havetime to go out until late at
night playing squash.
And you know, I was I'm sort ofguy who is either I'm all in or
I'm I'm not in at all.
So yeah, I was all in forsquash, I was playing every day
through my through my 20s and30s, so it was amazing.
(11:10):
I was actually getting freesquash, I was um part of a team
that got invited to um a club onthe north side, and um yeah, so
that that helped.
But um why did I take uprunning?
Well, I I didn't do much for along time when I had kids.
I had you know, I went out forthe occasional three to four K
(11:32):
run, you know, maybe a couple oftimes a week, so I wasn't doing
nothing.
Um, but um I tried to make acomeback to squash.
The funny story is that I Isnapped my Achilles heel
completely snapped it, not notjust you know, it needs a little
bit of a touch-up, but it wasit was major surgery.
(11:54):
So um I had that done, andnothing felt right about going
back to squash.
I went on a squash court bymyself and tried to run around,
and it just was so inflexiblethat um I thought, well, yeah,
look, I've got to just startwalking at least to try and you
know get some flexibility backin the Achilles.
(12:15):
And um I did that and I I wentback to the GP to to say, well,
I've you know I've done donethese things and it's still not
getting much better.
Um he suggested I startrunning.
I I said, Well, look, I do I dorun at the moment.
I'm doing running two to threeK a week.
And he said, Well, do you doyou do park runs?
He said, Yeah, sometimes I goon the park, sometimes I I don't
(12:39):
know what he was talking about,honestly.
I think they took this was2019, the year before COVID.
Okay, so it was early in theyear that um he said, uh yeah,
do you do you do these, do youdo park runs?
So he explained what they were,and I looked it up on the net
and like you know, I said, well,go along on Saturday.
(13:00):
And what I thought it was wasuh people just meet up at a park
and they go for a run.
And I said, So I thought, whydo I have this barcode?
And I thought, oh, that's thatmust be for in case you get
lost.
And I'll come looking for youbecause I'll you scan it in and
you scan it out.
And I had no idea it was atimed event.
(13:23):
So anyway, turned up, I think Iran 26 minutes, so I thought,
well, you know, I'm gonna goback next week and see if we're
gonna do better than that,because I I really wasn't
prepared for a race.
So I did that, and um, yeah, Istarted to get into it.
I I went every week, and um mybrother is a mad keen Iron Man.
(13:46):
So I mean the the full IronMan, the full big ride, whatever
it is, 180k and the the swim10k is it the swim?
And then it's marathon at theend.
I know it's marathon at theend.
And um, so I rang him and Isaid, Hey Rod, I'm trying I'm
doing these park runs, but Ithink I've hit what's called a
(14:06):
plateau, so I'm not getting anybetter.
And um he's I said, Well, whatdo I do?
What how do I train and get howdo I get better?
And he said, Well, you've gotto do a long run.
Oh, okay, how far do I have togo?
And he said, Well, you usuallygo on Sunday and you you you run
at least 10k.
And I said, 10k?
(14:27):
I don't know if I can run 10k.
And um, yeah, so I did.
The next next Sunday I went outand I did a 10k run and my back
killed me.
I remember stopping at Nunda,and I still had a another K K
and a half to go to get home.
So I live on the top of a hillat Wavell Heights.
And um, yeah, I I got the 10kfinished and and didn't improve
(14:54):
things straight away, but yeah,it set me on a path that I you
know I started to get a bit moreserious, and I I asked him some
more questions and he mentionedinterval training, and I
started to do that on on aMonday, I think it was, after
the long run.
I didn't know anything abouthow you do you do you don't do
two hard days in a row.
(15:14):
I didn't know anything aboutanything like that.
You know, I didn't knowanything about strength
training, so I I ended upgetting injured really badly
that later that year, and I gotwhat was called PHT.
If I've ever had that proximalhamstring tendinopathy.
Matty (15:32):
Okay, okay.
Mark (15:33):
It's the upper part of the hamstring that you know joins
onto the onto your glutes, andum yeah, it it the whole tendon,
it's not snapped or anything,it's just becomes malformed and
it's literally a pain in thebutt because otherwise you can
still run, which which I foundreally weird.
The physio said you can get gofor a run, but you but you um
(16:00):
yeah, you'll have to you know bein pain after after you do it,
that you've got to do this allthis physio.
So I um well I keep going withthis story.
Uh oh by all means, I mean whatone sure but I I I end up get
finding whoever was whoeverhelped had on the internet the
(16:22):
best story about how to get ridof this thing.
And I I I found this guy umwho's the official physio for
Gold Coast Marathon by uh bytoken.
And his name's um actually I'llmention his name because he's
yeah you know promotes hisbusiness anyway.
His name's Brad Beer.
And as in as in yeah, let'shave a beer.
Matty (16:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Mark (16:45):
Oh, that's pretty cool.
Um and uh his he was adifferent sort of a physio.
He's he's about you come andsee him and you've got
something, he'll say, Well, youdo you do this program, or you
you need to look at taking upanother sport.
And uh you know, not it's notthat he's like the Gestapo or
(17:07):
anything, he's not he's a prettynice guy.
And um he he did a program forme and he had a gym next door to
his his um practice at um uhone one of those suburbs at the
Gold Coast at the back ofSurface Paradise anyway.
Yeah, yeah.
And um and he he took methrough this um full running
(17:28):
gate strength program, which I Ithought, well I you know, I'd
never thought I'd have to dothat to to be a runner, and uh
so that's when I discoveredstrength training, and he he I
went back there and I was socommitted.
I drove down the gold caseevery four weeks and he he
altered the program and andyeah, from January to June, it
(17:49):
took me six months to get rid ofthis thing.
Oh which and it but it was incovert year, yeah.
So I I had all this this timewhere I wasn't preparing for any
races anyway, and to to torehab, and and during that time
that I was rehabbing, I wentfrom and I looked this up this
(18:11):
morning, I went from 30k a week,which was in you know late
2019, this December, to 100k aweek by June.
Joshie (18:23):
And I did it fairly ridiculous.
Mark (18:26):
I did it by time, so what wasn't so much I was watching
the mileage, it was about yeah,every week I'd just add on 10
minutes, and gradually I justkept going up and up and up, and
um, I think it was 10 minutesanyway.
Whatever it was, it got me from30k to to 100k in the in the
six months.
Joshie (18:47):
Yeah, and um well marks um yeah, you must be slightly
ahead of that now.
I I just checked Strava in thiscalendar year.
Bear in mind we're in October,you've run over 4,000
kilometres, which is just shy ofthe five and a half thousand
I've done in the Corolla.
Mark (19:05):
Definitely had an easier year.
Matty (19:09):
4,000?
That's that's unbelievable.
Mark (19:13):
Well, I see I started this year's a little bit different.
I I started off the year Itried to race this segment.
And you know a guy in the clubwho runs this who ran the
segment and he holds the recordfor it.
Maybe I should mention his nameor let's um anyway.
(19:35):
You wouldn't think if if I toldyou his name, you wouldn't
think he's that competitive.
He actually is, he's very fastup up that you know that hill.
Joshie (19:42):
I know who you're talking about, yeah.
Mark (19:44):
Steep hill.
Joshie (19:45):
Yep, I know who you're talking about.
Mark (19:46):
Yeah, it starts at the bottom, there's some ballards
and right on Gimpy Road, andthen you run up around the
corner, and it almost kills you.
You can almost almost havealmost have to walk the last
last 10 metres because it's sosteep.
It's like a I guess thegradient is 15% or 20% or
something like that.
Matty (20:05):
Yeah.
Mark (20:06):
And um, yeah, I thought I every year I say I'm gonna
challenge you this time, and Inever quite get there, and this
time I I wasn't I wasn't sort ofin the the level of fitness to
to really come near it, and Iheard my hamstring.
So I started off the yearbadly.
Anyway, um what were wetalking?
What were we talking about?
Joshie (20:26):
Oh well, I was just uh truly staggered that uh you've
nearly run as far as what I'vedone in the corolla this year.
I guess what I wanted to checkwith you is um to what would you
say that your um or to whatwould you attribute your
resilience?
I mean, like you say, you'vebeen able to build up to some
incredible volume, and you know,I think you said that you you
(20:49):
did have some injuries in theearly days, perhaps whilst you
were ramping up a bit tooquickly.
I mean, yeah, um there'sthere's surely something that's
complementary to your runningregime, whether it's strength
and conditioning that must help.
I mean, what can you tell usabout the sort of the stuff
that's um peripheral orancillary to running?
Mark (21:08):
Well, I I definitely strongly believe in strength
training, and I do I do threesessions a week.
I've got my home gym.
So I've got um I've got a veryminimalistic gym.
All I think you need is some ofthose stretchy bands.
I buy the black ones from RebelSport, so the fabric, fabric
(21:30):
ones.
I think all you need is one ofthose, some heavy dumbbells.
I've got two fifteens and I'vegot a 24 kilo kettlebell.
So I think if you're gonna dowhite trade weight training or
any strength training, you needto go heavy.
And I I also have had a lot ofsuccess with just doing you
(21:53):
know, those band walks, you justwalk like a monster monster
walk.
Um, I call it the gunslingerwalk, as you almost feel like
you're you know you're movinglike the old gunslingers, so and
the guns strapped to them.
And um, I walk 10 metresforward, 10 metres back, and
I'll do that so three times, andI'll do the other stuff with uh
(22:15):
you know single leg squats andand um you know calf raises with
kettle with the kettlebell, andI'll um I'll do these things
called Nordic curls, and this iswhere I've got serious.
I've actually drilled into mygarage and stuck some diner
bolts in there with with loops,and then I've got the the ankle
(22:35):
straps with the hooks, and thenI hook in with my ankles, and I
then you you get a pillow infront of you and you go forward
as far as you can.
It saves stops the couchlifting up in the air.
Yeah, it saves a couch.
So I used to do that and thenput the 24 kilo kettlebell on
the couch, and I and I thought,well, this can't be very good
for the couch.
I said I wasn't a couch potato,but I did I do actually like
(22:59):
couches.
Joshie (23:00):
Yeah.
Mark (23:02):
It to be in one piece at least.
So um, yeah, they're they'refantastic.
Nordic curls, they're like 10on a scale of 10 in terms of um
what you can get out of them.
Matty (23:13):
Can I just also ask, Mark, in terms of like 4,000
kilometres um so far this yearis a massive amount of running.
Mark (23:21):
I think I thought I was actually you know a bit lower
than last year.
Strava's telling me I'm 10 10or 15% down.
I had two years where I reallydecided I wanted to build the
aerobic engine up, and that was23 and 24.
And I I actually averagedsomething like 110 kilometres
per week, including all of thetape and everything else.
(23:45):
And um both of them were bothof them had really big marathon
blocks in them as well.
I think 20, yeah, it was 2023.
I PB'd my marathon on the GoldCoast 311, and earlier that year
I did three, I remember I didthree 160k weeks.
(24:06):
I wanted to do uh the 100 mile,which is actually 161.
Matty (24:12):
160, yeah, something like that.
Yeah.
Mark (24:14):
Yeah, so I did that for three weeks and then I had a
down week.
That's typically what I do.
I go three hard weeks to onedown week, and I'll drop it to
about 120.
Matty (24:24):
Is there like I mean doing that sort of stuff though,
like that sort of volume andgetting up each day and
thinking, okay, here we goagain, you must have a s like
it's more than just say, here wego again.
But it's more than just gettingup and running.
And it you've got to have thelove for it to be able to do
that sort of volume.
Mark (24:43):
Yeah, look, I I know.
I I've sort of I was thinkingback, how did I do that?
Because I want to do it againthis this coming year.
I actually want to start, Iwant to start in December.
So I'm thinking December,January, Feb, I'm gonna do a
like a base builder, and I'm andI'm gonna do do it.
That takes me into 12 weeks, Ithink, or 16 weeks of marathon
(25:05):
training before Gold Coast,whatever it is.
Um, and uh yeah, I want to doit again, just to prove to
myself, yeah.
And and I think it works.
I I really strongly believethat building the aerobic
engine, you know, whether you'rewhether or not you're training
for a marathon or whether you'retraining for a even a 5K, you
(25:26):
know, Arthur Lidgard, the famouscoach, if you go and look at
some of his material, he he hehe proved it.
He he proved it on himself.
But um, you know, he didn't NewZealander, uh, he was suddenly
this New Zealand coach wasproducing Olympic champions, and
everyone said, What are youdoing?
And that's that's basicallywhat he did.
He just he looked at aerobicvolume.
(25:48):
Because everything from fivecarpers is an aerobic race,
isn't it?
Matty (25:53):
Yeah, that's right.
Mark (25:55):
5k is just short and hard.
Matty (25:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Mark (25:59):
Look, I I don't think I don't know if I'm evading your
question here, but I don't thinkI've got a lot of fast twitch
muscles.
I think I've got a a couple offibers in each of my legs that
and they get bloody tired in a5k I can tell you.
You guys you guys have probablygot way way faster twitch
(26:19):
muscles, way more fast twitchmuscle fibres than I have.
Joshie (26:22):
Well, 20 years younger, don't forget.
Mark (26:25):
I mean Yeah, yeah.
Were you running 400 and 800sand and you know sort of middle
distance stuff?
Joshie (26:35):
I was I was running for the tuck shop to be honest.
Yeah, yeah.
Mark (26:40):
I was never good, and never ever any good at that
short stuff, but at the end ofthe day when they had the 5,000
meter race on Sports Day, youknow, I'd I would I'd place
third.
I wouldn't it wasn't winningit, but and people would read
out my name and hey, SparkWheelsworth, it's you doing
there.
But I was always better at thelonger stuff.
Joshie (27:02):
Yeah.
Now look, Mark, we're we'reblessed to live here in the
subtropics, which um isfantastic for living, but it's
hardly good prep for a marathonin freezing cold conditions.
Um what can you tell us aboutyour soul marathon experience?
Soul, yeah.
Mark (27:18):
That that was that was the most fun marathon that I've
done because um you when you'rein another country and you've
you know you you you're you'resampling their culture, you
know, it can be a bit weird, butum yeah, that this this soul
marathon, I I started right atthe back of the pack.
(27:38):
It just I I've got actually aphoto that my wife took of me
with the rope across, and I'mright at the front behind this
rope because I didn't have aplace, I didn't have a uh a seat
in because I I'd never run inso in um Korea before, in South
Korea, so I couldn't go and jointhe 315 group or whatever.
(27:59):
But I had come off a good goldcoaster um in July, and this was
um this was October.
So I'd run through 313 in in onthe gold coast, and uh I um I
ran through the pack from fourthe four-hour group, mate, made
it up to the 330s, and then I Ikept going.
(28:19):
I made it to the 315s, and Ithought, oh, this is all I have
to do, I'll just say with these315 paces, and um they started
chanting.
And I don't know what the hellthey were chanting.
It sounded a bit weird to me,but uh they're chanting for you,
Mark.
Keep going.
Maybe they they were go goAussie, go Aussie.
(28:42):
Um so I I ran past them and I'dend up with 314, and I thought
that was really that was reallyhappy with that because I
thought the gold coast 313, thatwas you know the perfect flat
race and everything.
This was this was up and downhills and crossed the um the Han
River three times because inthe sh they made it in the shape
of an S.
(29:02):
It wasn't the spot the theSeoul marathon, which is early
in the year.
This is uh called the SeoulJTBC, which is uh content
provider, like more like likeseven plus or something like
that.
Okay.
And um, but it really wellorganized, really you know,
well-run race.
They had the the weirdest thingthough was they had just they
(29:23):
had all these sponges.
Like before you went up went upa hill, they'd give you a
they'd hand out sponges, andthis is like zero degrees.
Why don't why do I want thiscold sponge?
It was heated up, it'd bedifferent, but yeah, you're
actually wearing they gave youthe most excellent race kit.
I remember they they gave yousleeves and they gave you gels
(29:45):
and and wow um like heat packs,like like not gels to eat,
though.
Sorry, they're uh you know gelsthat you actually put on your
your skin to um warm you up.
Like all that stuff, Voltir andthat's that's what and uh and
something to eat.
They give you like a Packagedup um roll.
(30:09):
And um yeah, it was just areally well organized marathon.
That there was a nice area toget photos with, and it didn't
actually work very well becauseit had an L C D readout and you
know it was in the sun, but ithad your time on it.
You just scanned your your bibwhen you went up to the platform
(30:30):
and it would say who you knowwho you who you are, and this
would be your time.
But um that was a good idea.
Um yeah, that was probably mythe best marathon because I
didn't actually I've always hadthis problem with marathons that
I get nausea at the end.
And that's what's been holdingme back.
(30:50):
I end up running quite welluntil the last 10k.
I mean I I I just would love tonot fade away in the last 10k,
and I haven't done it yet.
But this that day with inSeoul, maybe because it was
cold, I only actually actuallyhad one gel.
I started to get I started toget the nausea that I'd I'd had
(31:11):
in the the Gold Coast.
Joshie (31:13):
You know, it's interesting.
Trying to nail race daynutrition is really difficult.
Mark (31:18):
I mean, you know, I'm also quite new to you apart from me.
Joshie (31:21):
To running, but yeah, I mean we very rarely practice um
you know taking on board gels orother forms of nutrition during
our our training runs.
I mean, it's quite on on a longrun, for example, it's quite
easy to you know, yeah, taketake some on.
But yeah.
Mark (31:38):
I I had this conversation with a coach and not John, it's
an another guy, and um he hesaid it was it's really hard if
you don't if you don't actuallyget it in the long run, you
know, you if you can't produceit, I've never been able to
reproduce it in any long runs,no matter what that what they've
been.
I've gone on some pretty biglong runs like 36, 38k.
Matty (32:00):
Yeah, you have, yeah.
Mark (32:01):
I've never ever got this nausea as what I get really in
the last 10k of marathon.
But but we've I've done someresearch and I've done done a
little bit of a trial.
Ginger.
It it's it sounds weird, but uhI don't know how I got onto it,
(32:22):
but that those travel calmyeah, I was gonna say travel
calm, yeah.
Yeah, they don't have any drugin them.
Matty (32:28):
I thought they had some sort of drowsy drug and you'd
you know you'd fall asleep.
Is it a ginger extract, is it?
Mark (32:34):
Yeah, it's just ginger.
They really make your guts feelwarm inside.
That's a that but that's youknow, that's something you can
live with, but it's much betterthan the than the nausea.
But I tried that right at theend of the Sydney marathon last
year.
And um yeah, instead of mebailing over at the end, which
(32:58):
I've been normally which Inormally do, and I can't talk to
anyone and can't walk for about10 minutes, I I actually as
soon as I took them right at theend of the marathon, I don't
know why I took didn't take itsooner, um, I just started
walking with this girl and Istarted talking to her, and I
was really realizing, hey, thenausea's gone.
(33:18):
So that's my indication thatthis this these ginger tablets
will work next time.
So I'm holding out a lot ofhope.
Joshie (33:30):
What I'd love uh Mark about yourself, I mean you're
not just committed to running,you're constantly looking at
ways that you can continue toimprove, and that's not just the
actual running, but the stuffthat is complementary to
running, whether it's um youknow how you manage nausea on
race day and how you um sort ofmanage um rehabilitation.
(33:51):
We'll talk in a few momentsabout some of your um some of
your setbacks, but I mean, doyou ever get the sense that
you've almost become uh a victimof your own success?
I mean, I was thinking aboutthis a little bit earlier.
I'm sure I'm not the onlyperson who's opened up Strava
and just gone, oh yeah,Wigglesworth just won his age
grade again, or you know, Mark'sjust gone straight from
hospital to another long run.
(34:12):
I mean, hope you I hope yourealise that um silently you
you're you're the envy of yourrunning peers.
What you're able to achieve isum is is quite incredible.
Mark (34:22):
I'm just a boring shit.
I just do get up and do thesame thing every day.
Seriously.
When I get in those marathonblocks, I don't know.
I I really can't remember whatmy state of mind is, but I I
don't ever feel that oh no, Ican't do this today.
I I just kind of look forwardto it in a weird sort of a way.
(34:45):
And I know I you know youprobably say, well, why do you
run you know mostly by yourself?
Well, I don't know, I just II'm happily I I like running
with people, but I I just youknow I just sort of keep going.
I don't know.
Joshie (35:01):
Do you feel that some there's a lot of people who we
know who we run with that woulduh by the way put their hands up
and admit that they're addictedto running.
I get the sense that for youyou're not necessarily addicted
to running, you're justpassionate about it and you
really enjoy it.
Mark (35:16):
Yeah, I think, yeah, it's it's a passion.
True.
It's it's a yeah you know.
I went to I was thinkingactually this morning, I went
went to this orthopedic surgeonabout my my hip.
That's been the ongoing thing.
It's it's actually really goodnow.
I call it a niggle, but it's umit's it's still I'm still in
the game.
As I left, I told him allabout, you know, I yeah, went in
(35:41):
these age grading things andand I was doing alright.
And he said, um have a good asI went out of the office, he
said, um, I think your hip'sgonna be alright till it's not
alright.
Have a good career.
I'm thinking, career?
Did he say career?
I'm thinking, yeah, the job Ido, I I'm virtually in, I would
(36:05):
say I'm in my retirement job.
I work three days a week now.
So I would say I put a lot moreeffort into running.
Running comes first as Iorganise my week than than my
job.
Although I like my job and Ilike getting things done.
Matty (36:22):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm pretty much the same,pretty much the same.
Mark (36:25):
I just like getting shit done.
I'm not a yeah, I'm not youknow, I'm a developer, but I'm
not a actually the thedepartment I work in is called
GHQ, which is geek headquarters.
But I've I would never describemyself as a geek, maybe a
running geek, but not not notnot as a software geek.
And I don't even like StarWars, to be honest.
(36:47):
I thought, oh, this is a bitpredictable.
Yeah, he's gonna go back withhis false arm and save the
planet, whatever.
Joshie (36:58):
One thing which I wouldn't mind just making uh
clear to listeners is a lot ofwhat we've spoken about isn't
tongue-in-cheek.
You genuinely did take uprunning seriously in your um
early 60s around the time youturned 60.
Mark (37:11):
I was what's 2019?
That was six years ago.
So I would have been yeah, 62.
68 in December.
Oh wow.
Joshie (37:23):
Um and yeah, you you genuinely have um won your age
grade at a a number of events.
Um one thing which I did wantto ask, and you know, with all
your recent running success, doyou have any regrets about not
taking up running more seriouslywhen you were younger?
Mark (37:39):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely, yeah.
Every time I run past one ofthose burnt runners.
That's right.
40 years ago, that could havebeen me.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Joshie (37:52):
Yeah, when you say run past them, you mean o over to
overtaking them, Mark, I'm sure.
Mark (37:59):
No, it's a good guy.
Um there's a guy because uh ofyour name's sake, Joshua um is a
really he's a real idol ofmine.
He's he's he's a fantasticrunner, he's a bird runner.
Matty (38:10):
And um I know him, yeah.
Mark (38:12):
We run past each other.
When I was doing the Saturdaymorning long runs, um, he was
doing his Saturday morning longrun.
I think he takes Sunday off.
And um, yeah, we we just seethe same place every week
because we both must havestarted must have started from
the at the same time at 4 30 inthe morning, whatever.
I I'm pretty religious, I dotend to do the same course every
(38:36):
week.
If I mean I'm I'm a boringship, but um I'm I'm I'm trying
to switch it up a bit now.
I'm trying a few differentthings, and um my son's a big um
a big thing in my life.
He um he's autistic spectrumdisorder, and um so I look after
him every every Saturday, butwe go running as well.
(38:58):
I drive over to his uhindependent living um flat where
he shares with a couple ofother um pro people with the
same problems, and um he uh hewas putting on a lot of weight,
and I've been taking him runningon Monday, Monday, Wednesday,
Friday.
I mean, we what we do is hejust walks to the other side of
(39:21):
a rugby field and runs back.
But he does that three three orfour times, but he's he's
dropped his weight from 126 downto 111 last Saturday.
Awesome.
I think it's fantastic, and andthat's not just the running,
it's you know, controlling hisportions and things.
So he he's a big um a big partof my life, um as well as my new
(39:47):
grandson, I guess, who um isnow 10 months old.
Matty (39:53):
Awesome.
Mark (39:53):
So yeah, yeah, I do have a life outside of running it and
and the the three days a weekthat I I work as a dev, we call
we call ourselves.
Um did I answer your question,by the way?
Joshie (40:09):
Uh you did.
I was sort of asking about youknow whether or not you had any
um any regrets about not takingrunning more seriously when you
were younger, but um, you know,hope hopefully you realize that
it's it's put you in good steadfor taking up running in in your
60s.
I mean, look at what you'rewhat you're able to achieve.
But um one thing which um I'mnot sure if you want to speak
(40:31):
about this, but I'll give youthe opportunity.
I mean, your journey hasn'tbeen without its challenges.
Um and not many people knowthat you had um I think quite a
quite a health scare only a fewmonths back.
Um and correct me if I'm wrong,I think you referred to it as
something called transientischema or something along those
lines.
Mark (40:49):
Yeah, that scared the shit out of me.
There um actually this wholewhole year's been a bit bit
weird.
Yeah, I had this thing, and umit's um it's possi it's a
possible um what's the word?
It's something before you get astroke.
Like a precursor or yeah,that's the word, precursor.
(41:10):
And uh it's um it's a called aTIA, transient in Semic Attack.
And um, but the the key wordthere is it's um transient.
So what happened was I haddouble vision.
I was I was working on as I doon a Monday at the office, and I
was sitting next to next to aguy, and uh I I tore this double
(41:32):
vision on my two computerscreens, and uh suddenly they
there were four computerscreens.
And I looked at him and therewere two of him as well.
And so I stood up, I justthought this is just a bit a bit
strange, something's just youknow, I've just been focusing on
the um on the text for toolong, and it persisted.
(41:52):
It kept going for about two orthree minutes, which was and
really well.
I said I said to him this I'mgonna need um need some
assistance, so I could par likeparamedic assistance.
Something weird's going onhere, and he he got a first aid
person.
They they they liaised with theambulances and tried to get
somebody over there, and theywent through the the you know
(42:15):
the normal things you do and youknow checked checked whether I
was hot and you know whetherwhat my other vital signs were
as much as I could see, but umit stopped all of a sudden, you
know, after a couple of minutes,yeah, it just went away and I
was feeling normal again.
They came out anyway, the theparamedics and gave me a blood
uh blood pressure test and andum whatever else they do.
(42:40):
Um pulse um that's about it,isn't it?
What else do they do?
Matty (42:47):
Yeah, just your vitals, yeah.
Mark (42:48):
Yeah, just my vital signs.
And they said, yeah, they theymentioned they were the first to
mention TIA.
You could have had this TIA.
So then then it over the nexttwo to three weeks I had to go
through all these MRIs andultrasound, and and then this
one ultrasound report came backand said uh I had something
(43:08):
wrong with my um carotid artery,like plaque in my carotid
artery.
So so that was followed up witha a vascular surgeon and
appointment, and and I wentalong to him and uh he said, Why
are you here?
I said, Oh, you know, I've hadthis TIA, blah blah blah, and
you know, the ultrasound.
And I don't agree with theultrasound, it's uh they've made
(43:31):
a mistake, they've measured itwrong, and then they didn't they
didn't check the flow rate oneither side of the of the the
artery where they're saying it'sa blockage and there's no
difference in the flow rate.
He said, Oh, I won't, you youwon't, you're not no different
to any other you know,67-year-old male.
Oh, geez, this has made my day.
Yeah, there's nothing wrongwith me.
(43:52):
He's I said, Well, what couldpossibly have caused?
And he said, Well, it it couldpossibly have been dehydration.
And I remember I came off areally hard marathon workout
that weekend.
I possibly didn't recover fromthat.
And um that's the only thing Ican think of.
But I've had no recurrencesince um I I trust this.
(44:16):
I I checked around, and thisguy apparently is very well
recognised um as a vascularsurgeon, and um yeah, nothing's
come up since um I've sort ofbeen all in in the I'm in the
auction now.
And the only good thing isabout all these, have all I've
had all these tests done.
I also had some radiotherapy ona skin cancer, and I had to go
(44:39):
20 times, would you believe, tomake sure this thing didn't
recur into the nerves because itthat there's BCCs, which are
basal cell carcinomas, and thisthere's squamous cell
carcinomas, and then squamousget into your nerves, so I had
to have this radiotherapy.
So after all of these, my youknow, I've paid out all this
(44:59):
money to to get all this allthis stuff done, and sudden
suddenly you go over thisthreshold.
So if I go to a doctor now or aspecialist, it's like about
five bucks or something.
This fantastic threshold.
So I'm trying to think whatelse can I get done this year?
So that's the good part of it.
But um, no, I'll it's actuallymade me feel better about my
(45:21):
general health because I Iobviously from this um this I've
also had some prostrate um sometests as well, and and they've
they've checked checked me over,and I definitely don't have any
cancers or any growths oranything like that.
But I've got this this weirdthing that happens to men of my
(45:42):
age that your your prostate justgrows and it gets bigger, and
suddenly you've you know gettingup once a night is like a
luxury.
It's more like four to sixtimes a night.
I actually cheat I cheated lastnight and I had a couple of um
a couple of neurofin, which likeany inflammatories, and that
(46:03):
that that makes you only get upabout two or three times.
So I only do that about once ortwice a week.
I take two neurofin going tobed just to help me sleep.
But that's all gonna be over,hopefully, on November 14.
Or not sorry to notimmediately, but I'm having this
um procedure done that actuallyshrinks the down, actually
(46:25):
going and into the artery, andthey they do something called
emeralization.
Um, it's called PAE, prostrateuh artery emeralization, and
that eventually after about Ithink it's up to months or
something later, your prostatestarts to shrink and everything
goes back to not maybe normal,but it gets back to a stage
(46:47):
where you yeah, you've made ahuge improvement with you know
not having that pressure on yourbladder because the prostate
shrinks down.
Joshie (46:58):
So can I ask, Mark, whenever you go into these
appointments and with aspecialist, if ever they
recommend a procedure, is yourfirst question how long do I
have to take off running?
Mark (47:08):
Absolutely.
Well, you think I've chosenthere's about three other
procedures you can get.
I said, Oh, can you run thenext?
He said, You can walk out thenext walk out that day, as long
as you have somebody to take youhome.
Oh, that's great.
What about can I run the nextday?
He looked at me funny, he said,Well, you well, you could, but
(47:30):
you probably won't feel like youyou want to because you you're
gonna you get apparently thisfever from having the the
procedure done.
Okay.
Um but fever, smever, you know.
If I'm feeling okay, I'll gofor it.
Yeah.
If it's part of your life andyou you can possibly use that to
(47:52):
to make you feel better that'sright because of your your
general well-being, well, whynot?
Joshie (47:59):
Well, I think if ever if ever there's a moment that
embodies the the spirit of MarkWigglesworth, it's a photo of
you on Strava, I think, fromlast year or maybe the year
before.
On the long run, bruised, and Ithink I checked the following
day, you somehow managed to do a30k long run or something.
Mark (48:18):
Well, yeah, I had to continue with I was in the
middle of a long run when I fellover.
I was well for a brief moment Ithought I'd I'd be able to get
up and keep going.
But then then I just saw thisblood just falling off my face.
I tried to hail down a coupleof cyclists to um to to just
check me over.
They didn't stop the buggers.
(48:39):
So um I sort of had to givemyself a HIA to hit injurious.
What day is this?
Oh, it's Saturday.
Who's the Prime Minister?
Um Scott Rogers.
And anyway, I um yeah, I uhwhat happened was I was wearing
the Alpha Flies, and you knowhow they don't have any give,
(48:59):
they're so stiff.
I just had to clip this um thisum telecom that telestrop um
box.
It was probably old enough tobe telecom they didn't put the
lid down properly, and I justclipped it and I I just went
over straight over on onto a itwas a corner uh just near um
(49:20):
Northgate station, I think itwas.
Um no, is it Northgate?
Yeah, anyway, somewhere aroundthere, and um yeah, like I I
went it went like knees, elbows,face because with momentum.
The face was the last one, butit was on that really rough
bitumen as well that had yeah,yeah.
(49:41):
Not the smooth stuff, the thereally rough stuff, and yeah, I
I I gashed my face.
I didn't need any stitches, Ithink, any searches.
I I just basically basicallyjust glued it back on, I glued
it back together.
Yeah, but I had yeah, bandageson my face and my knees, my
(50:02):
elbows, and shoulder, shoulder,that was the other thing,
shoulder.
And um, yeah, I I I went home,I ran home, which I can't even
remember.
Blood all over.
Matty (50:12):
Oh wow.
Mark (50:13):
I was just I was hoping I just didn't run it.
I didn't see anybody because Iwas mate, it was five five or
five thirty in the morning atthat stage, and um you know, I
just ran up Radie Road and gotgot to home and I scored out my
wife before you come down, I'vegot blood all over me, but it's
all okay.
We're just gonna go up to thehospital.
(50:34):
And yeah, I went to the privateemergency, you know, it's it's
where you pay $400 and they giveyou the first class treatment.
You don't have to wait,otherwise I'll be waiting in
casualty for two hours.
So I just walked in there andthey they were really good.
They fixed me up.
And yeah, went home and wentrunning the next day, and I
think I ran past a certainmember of the Chernside um
(50:58):
running community or turnside intraining club who um must have
ged up whoever it was runningwith, but they clapped as I went
as I went past.
Joshie (51:11):
I just would have shook my head in disbelief.
Uh yeah.
Mark (51:15):
I thought I felt okay otherwise, you know.
I just had just had a bit ofskin missing.
Gross back.
Joshie (51:22):
Honestly, I'm true, yeah, truly amazed at your um
resilience, Mark.
Um we've got just a couple ofquestions before we um before we
wrap up.
Um what would you say is yourgreatest running achievement?
Mark (51:35):
My greatest running achievement.
Joshie (51:38):
Something that you sort of look back on and think, you
know, whether it either all cametogether or something where you
overcame adversity, justsomething that you think is in
your I guess hall of fame?
Mark (51:50):
That's a good question.
Um there's been a lot.
Um probably the I know 5k isactually my nemesis.
It's like the race that scaresme the most.
I'll be I'll be so nervousbefore a 5k, but I'll go to a
(52:12):
marathon and it'll just all bein my stride.
Maybe because of the build-upor something.
Marathon, you've just basicallyyou've done so many months of
preparation, you just followfollow the plan.
But 5k's um yeah, they theyhurt.
Matty (52:29):
5k really hurts, and that's where I think the anxiety
comes in.
And um, yeah, that's right.
I think huge anxiety.
You know you're gonna be inpain.
Mark (52:37):
I've got it now, because there's a there's a 5k race I'm
going in on the weekend.
But yeah, first time I wentunder 20 minutes in the 5k,
because the what happened wasthat was at the end of that big
year I had when I first went to100k and the COVID year.
So the first the first park runback was November, right?
(53:02):
And without any training, I Iwould I had got gone the year
before so many park runs tryingto break 21, and I was never get
never gonna get there.
I don't even get I even comeclose to breaking 21.
But after this COVID year wherethere's no park runs, I just
ran.
Suddenly it was 2018.
(53:22):
I thought, oh geez, that'salright.
I ran 2018, I haven't run itrun in a race for such a long
time, and I've broken 21.
I thought, what if I do sometraining towards the towards a
5k?
And so I did that for about sixweeks.
I I just got a training programoff the internet, I followed
(53:45):
that religiously, and yeah, butI went back and I ran 1946, so I
took 30.
That's hard to take 30 secondsoff.
Oh, yeah, it is at any time,isn't it?
And I just felt really goodbecause everything had gone to
plan.
Um yeah, I just just went outand just just did it.
(54:05):
Awesome.
Fantastic.
Had some good runners that day.
Yeah, a couple of couple ofother people who were just
behind me.
Um, and um, yeah, it was just agreat day to achieve something.
Joshie (54:22):
Yeah, oh I love that.
Um I can see you putting yourshoes on in the background.
I can tell that you're itchingto get out and run again.
But before we finish up, um,what's on the horizon for for
next year?
Is there any either event or orgoal that you have your site
set on?
Mark (54:36):
Yeah, well big big, as I said before, big base building
session or um big base buildingplanned.
So I'm gonna do about threemonths of that.
Um I've booked in so far forSydney.
So because I did the candidacyrace in 2023, I think it was,
(55:00):
where they were trying to setthemselves up to become an
Abbott major, um, they gave gaveyou um uh guaranteed entry for
the next next three years.
So all I had to do was justjust um send them a name.
They'd send me an email and Ijust responded back to that with
the link and filled everythingout.
(55:20):
So I'm all paid up as a umcompetitor for for Sydney next
year, which is um exactly eightweeks after Gold Coast.
So that so I'm gonna do GoldCoast.
Yeah.
So I think yeah, I did the GoldCoast half this year, and I
yeah, I got that got that frommy age age group, which was
good.
And I got a nice trophy, youknow, they usually just give you
(55:42):
medals.
So I'm gonna go back and do thedo the um don't call don't ever
call marathons full marathons,and somebody told me that
because it There's only onemarathon.
Yeah, it it depreciates itdeprecates the half marathon
because the half marathon is ahard race.
Yeah, I'm doing the fullmarathon, not the hard it's the
(56:04):
marathon.
Yep.
And um so I'm gonna do that andSydney eight weeks apart.
I hope that goes well.
I think the key with that isthe um is the recovery from from
the first one.
Matty (56:20):
Yeah.
Mark (56:20):
So hoping to hoping to keep the same level of fitness.
Joshie (56:25):
So for next year, is it a a time-based or an age grading
kind of goal that you've gotyour site set on?
Mark (56:31):
Yeah, well, I want to get back to under 315.
I've I've done I've now donethree under 330 and three under
315.
So I want to get back to addinganother one to that under 315.
Square the ledger, I love that.
I really want to break 310, tobe honest.
Matty (56:54):
Yeah, uh that'd be awesome.
Mark (56:55):
Look, I mean, if you you if you gave me some special
training program to um to breakthree, and it would guarantee
that I'd do it, like run aroundMarchant Park at midnight for
six weeks naked.
Sign up for that.
I still haven't thrown outthrown that out the window that
(57:19):
I could.
So would I I'd sign up for thatas well.
Joshie (57:22):
Oh, yeah.
I'd happily sign up as aspectator.
Mark (57:26):
No cameras allowed, no phones allowed.
Um we still hope to do it.
I mean, I I know I'mapproaching 70, like 68, 68 in
two months, December.
Um so 69.
But yeah, I'd I would yeah, Iit's not impossible.
It's not, no.
My my my brain can say, well,all I have to do is run better
(57:50):
than 415 uh per 415 per K.
Matty (57:56):
Um over 42k, you still like how it's uncomprehendable
for me, yeah.
Joshie (58:03):
It's like that's all I have to do.
Um for some people, like it's athat's a time trial, you do
realise.
Um for us mere mortals.
That's um well, that'sfantastic.
And look, um Mark, thanks um somuch for joining us on Run
Believable.
It really has been a joyspeaking with you, and yeah, we
um we certainly wish you all thevery best over the next um 12
(58:27):
months in particular, but beyondthat, with your running goals,
and yeah, it's um once againthanks so much for taking the
time to speak with us today.
Mark (58:34):
Thanks, Josh.
Thanks, Maddie.
Joshie (58:36):
Thanks, mate.
See you see you soon.
See you, mate.
Wow, Maddie, what aninspiration.
Um hearing Mark's story, I'llbe brutally honest, makes me
feel somewhat conflicted, Iguess.
Um, I'm not sure whether itgives me a sense of hope or
despair because what what he'sable to achieve at his age, let
alone any age, is um is quiteincredible.
Matty (58:57):
Yeah, I I think it's really inspirational, and I
think for myself, like I hope Ican keep running till that age
and and run well like he is.
Um, you know, he obviously getsa lot out of it as well.
Yeah.
Joshie (59:10):
Tell you what, all all he has to do is run 42.2ks at
415 pace.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you've got a run believablestory of your own, we'd love to
hear it.
Make sure that you follow us onInstagram and if you want to be
a guest on the show, then hitus up.
And finally, this podcastrelies on your continued
(59:33):
support.
So please take the time tofollow, rate, and share this
podcast with your running matesand see you in the next run
believable adventure.
Now, I've got no idea whether it was runfluences or
maybe 1982 Deks that inspiredme, but jeez, these shorts were
short.
My goodness.
All you could see when I waswearing them was like this
translucent flesh on my upperthigh that had clearly never
seen the light of day.
Hello everybody and welcome toRun Believable, the podcast
(00:31):
where everyday runners sharetheir not-so-everyday stories.
I'm your host, Josh Richon, andI'm here to bring you stories
of grit, glory, and overcomingadversity.
Each episode we'll dive deepinto what first got people
running and what kept themlacing up day after day.
From the laughs and the lessonsto wearing shorts that reveal
you don't actually have a firegap.
(00:52):
We're here to share what makesrunning a truly human
experience.
And later in this episode,you'll meet a runner who's the
epiphany of you're never too oldto start running.
They say never meet yourheroes, but failing any
connectivity issues, we'll besitting down with one of mine in
a few moments' time.
Maddie, welcome back.
(01:13):
I know how excited you arewhenever you get behind the mic.
How are you on this lovely day?
Matty (01:19):
Yeah, good thanks, Joshy.
Um, really well, thanks.
Uh so yeah, everything's goingwell.
Joshie (01:24):
Now, before we kick off, I do want to give our growing
band of listeners a shout out.
Now, look, it's no secret,Maddie, that we're based in
Brisbane and most of our earlylisteners are from this region.
But I actually checked thismorning, and somewhere between
five and ten percent of ourlisteners are in the Sydney
region.
Now, I yeah, I'm not personallyconnected with any runners in
(01:47):
that part of um the the world.
So if you are indeed tuning infrom Sydney, I hope this message
finds you well, and please hitus up on Instagram.
We would love to hear from you.
Now, Maddie, let's get stuckinto the Runbelievable rundown.
And just a reminder, this iswhere we share highlights,
mishaps, and little wins, thekind of stuff that Strava simply
(02:11):
can't capture.
Now, during the week, I put upa poll on our Instagram page
asking if anyone had experienceda chafing DNF.
And to my utter amazement, veryfew had.
Now, apparently, Maddie, you'veactually never even had
chafing.
How is that even possible?
I don't know.
Matty (02:32):
I've I've never had it.
I've always worn tights um fromthe moment that I started
running.
Um, whether that's uh the theanswer, I don't know.
Um we talking like Robin Hoodmen in tights, tights.
I did when I first startedrunning, I did wear long tights
um because I started running inwinter.
Um and then I stopped when itbecame summer and had a bit of a
break.
So, but now it's just um likesort of what do you call them?
(02:57):
Like short tights.
Joshie (02:58):
Yeah.
Matty (02:58):
Um yeah, they they work for me.
Joshie (03:00):
So um yeah, never experienced it.
I don't know how that'spossible because chafing seems
to be the bane of pretty muchevery runner, myself included.
And actually, that that pollthat I put out did actually get
me thinking a little bit aboutmy own chafing experiences, and
I actually recall the very firstone that I had, which was a
truly horrendous experience.
Um when I started running, Iwould run in whatever felt
(03:24):
comfortable.
I really didn't care about howI looked.
But there came a point in timewhere I became, I don't know, a
little bit more self-conscious,I guess you'd say.
Uh, and I got hooked onwatching running videos.
Now, I've got no idea whetherit was Runfluences or maybe 1982
Deks that inspired me to buythese like three-inch split
(03:46):
shorts.
Um it was D's.
I think it probably was D.
Surely it's got to make me afaster runner, Maddie, wearing
big things, but geez, theseshorts were short.
My goodness.
All you could see when I waswearing them was like this
translucent flesh on my upperthigh that had clearly never
seen the light of day.
Um by the time I realised itwas too late, I'd already turned
(04:07):
up at parkruns.
So anyway, I was undeterred.
I thought, why not give it ashot?
It was Xilmir Parkrun, my firstand only ever um attendance
there.
And look, they don't get thatmany people there, and I was so
intent on finishing in the topten.
So off we go, bounding acrossthe paddock like a gazelle.
But Maddie, within about 800metres, I noticed this
(04:29):
horrendous burning sensationbetween my legs.
It turns out that those dearold thighs of mine needed
slightly more than three inchesof protection.
So chafed like a motherfucker.
I shit walked the rest of thecourse, barely making it outside
the bottom 10.
Now, I've learned a lot oflessons since then, um, and my
(04:51):
goodness, uh, to those fellowrunners who have experienced
chafe, which is pretty much allof you, I'm imagining I imagine.
Any tips, let us know.
I am still to this day tryingto work out how best to avoid
it.
Matty (05:04):
What about like you can get that um skin glide and you
can get you can put Vaselinethere?
Does that do anything?
Joshie (05:10):
I've tried, but it's weird.
It's almost as if I don't know,my body seems to find new
vulnerable spots to experiencechafe.
Um, look, we could talk aboutthis all day.
Um we've got our guests eagerlywaiting for us.
So look, if you've gotsomething that you'd like to
contribute to the unbelievablerundown, whether that's a
(05:31):
chafing war story or whatever,then send it our way.
Now, Maddie, we're going to trya new segment this episode.
I am completely done with overand under.
Yeah.
Um, not least because you'realmost impossible to trip up.
So I am sorry, I know that youreally love that segment, but
we're gonna try something newtoday.
(05:53):
It's a game that I call shoe amI.
Matty (05:57):
So shoes and what type of shoe, I guess.
Joshie (06:01):
Well, the way it works is as follows.
I'm going to give you up tofive clues to guess the make and
model of a running shoe.
So, for example, the Nike AlphaFly 3.
Obviously, that's not going tobe the answer, but just to give
you an idea of what we'relooking for.
Now, you'll get five points ifyou get the answer correct after
(06:24):
one clue, four points after twoclues, so on and so forth.
Now, if you guess incorrectlyat any point, you will score
zero points.
Does that make sense?
Matty (06:35):
Yep, makes sense.
Joshie (06:37):
Cool.
So feel free to play along athome and see if you can beat
Maddie, who fancies himself as abit of a shoe geek.
Let's play shoe am I.
Clue number one.
I was released in 2022 andcontained an S-curved nylon
plate.
Would you like to have a guessnow for five points?
Matty (07:00):
An S-curved nylon plate.
Joshie (07:02):
S-curved.
Um just a reminder, if you'reguessing correctly, that's zero
points.
Yeah, another clone.
Alright, for four points.
My offset, that is, heel to toedrop, was eight millimeters.
It is with a stack height ofthirty-six mil and four foot of
(07:25):
twenty-eight.
Matty (07:26):
Okay.
I might have a guess.
Joshie (07:39):
That is incorrect.
I'll tell you what, I'll letyou have one incorrect guess.
We'll keep playing that forthree points, Maddie.
I boasted advanced propulsionfrom proprietary technology
called speed roll geometry.
Matty (07:56):
Speed roll.
I've never heard of that term.
Joshie (08:00):
Um this is fantastic, by the way.
I love tricky.
Is it um New Balance SuperCompolete?
It is not New Balance SuperCompilete.
So that's zero points.
If you're still playing alongat home, for two points, our
fourth clue.
At standard means US size nine.
(08:22):
I weighed 230 grams.
Okay.
And last clue for one point, mymanufacturer name poorly rhymes
with the word androgyny.
Maddie, did you want to have ago withrogy?
I did say poorly rhymes.
I honestly don't know.
Well, this website it said thatit was a 92% rhyme with the
(08:44):
manufacturer name.
Matty (08:46):
Manufacturer name androgyny.
Joshie (08:48):
Yeah, so apparently it 92% rhymes with the word
androgyny.
Matty (08:52):
I don't I still don't know.
Joshie (08:53):
So I am the Sukoni Endorphin Speed.
Okay, that didn't even pop intomy head.
People have been screaming intotheir phones right now.
Yeah.
Um how did you go at home?
Feel free to let us know.
Today's guest is yet to learnwhat the word aging means.
A late starter to running, hisfeats continue to baffle sports
(09:15):
scientists, getting fitter,stronger, and faster, despite
being in his mid-sixties.
He's built an engine that mostof us can only dream of,
routinely clocking well over ahundred kilometres a week, and
topping his age grade at highlycompetitive events.
But behind the numbers lies astory of tenacity, resilience,
(09:36):
and remarkable self-belief.
And I truly can't wait to sitdown and speak with him.
Please let's all welcome theone and only Mark Wigglesworth.
Matty (09:45):
Good to have you, Mark.
Joshie (09:46):
Thanks for the intro.
Mark (09:48):
Does that sound like me?
I'd understand if this wasepisode 173, but I've I've
listened to all your podcasts sofar, and they're they're
surprisingly very professional.
I think you got you two guyshave got a good rapport going.
That that's what makes it.
Joshie (10:06):
Well we have yeah, we want to give you the gold
standard introduction.
We're not going to wait tillepisode 160 before you're taking
me back.
Mark (10:14):
I might I might have a bit more of my story.
Joshie (10:17):
Mark, uh correct me if I'm wrong, but you took up
running in your 60s whilst manyof your peers were taking up
bingo.
What kick started your journey?
Mark (10:25):
Legs 11.
Uh I used to go to bingo withmy grandma.
That uh no, why why did I takeup running?
Um actually, yeah, look, I I'mno couch potato.
I I used to play a lot ofsquash.
I did so I did that in my 20sand 30s.
And just just like probably youguys are going through now or
(10:48):
have have been through recently,um, kids came along and
suddenly I could didn't havetime to go out until late at
night playing squash.
And you know, I was I'm sort ofguy who is either I'm all in or
I'm I'm not in at all.
So yeah, I was all in forsquash, I was playing every day
through my through my 20s and30s, so it was amazing.
(11:10):
I was actually getting freesquash, I was um part of a team
that got invited to um a club onthe north side, and um yeah, so
that that helped.
But um why did I take uprunning?
Well, I I didn't do much for along time when I had kids.
I had you know, I went out forthe occasional three to four K
(11:32):
run, you know, maybe a couple oftimes a week, so I wasn't doing
nothing.
Um, but um I tried to make acomeback to squash.
The funny story is that I Isnapped my Achilles heel
completely snapped it, not notjust you know, it needs a little
bit of a touch-up, but it wasit was major surgery.
(11:54):
So um I had that done, andnothing felt right about going
back to squash.
I went on a squash court bymyself and tried to run around,
and it just was so inflexiblethat um I thought, well, yeah,
look, I've got to just startwalking at least to try and you
know get some flexibility backin the Achilles.
(12:15):
And um I did that and I I wentback to the GP to to say, well,
I've you know I've done donethese things and it's still not
getting much better.
Um he suggested I startrunning.
I I said, Well, look, I do I dorun at the moment.
I'm doing running two to threeK a week.
And he said, Well, do you doyou do park runs?
He said, Yeah, sometimes I goon the park, sometimes I I don't
(12:39):
know what he was talking about,honestly.
I think they took this was2019, the year before COVID.
Okay, so it was early in theyear that um he said, uh yeah,
do you do you do these, do youdo park runs?
So he explained what they were,and I looked it up on the net
and like you know, I said, well,go along on Saturday.
(13:00):
And what I thought it was wasuh people just meet up at a park
and they go for a run.
And I said, So I thought, whydo I have this barcode?
And I thought, oh, that's thatmust be for in case you get
lost.
And I'll come looking for youbecause I'll you scan it in and
you scan it out.
And I had no idea it was atimed event.
(13:23):
So anyway, turned up, I think Iran 26 minutes, so I thought,
well, you know, I'm gonna goback next week and see if we're
gonna do better than that,because I I really wasn't
prepared for a race.
So I did that, and um, yeah, Istarted to get into it.
I I went every week, and um mybrother is a mad keen Iron Man.
(13:46):
So I mean the the full IronMan, the full big ride, whatever
it is, 180k and the the swim10k is it the swim?
And then it's marathon at theend.
I know it's marathon at theend.
And um, so I rang him and Isaid, Hey Rod, I'm trying I'm
doing these park runs, but Ithink I've hit what's called a
(14:06):
plateau, so I'm not getting anybetter.
And um he's I said, Well, whatdo I do?
What how do I train and get howdo I get better?
And he said, Well, you've gotto do a long run.
Oh, okay, how far do I have togo?
And he said, Well, you usuallygo on Sunday and you you you run
at least 10k.
And I said, 10k?
(14:27):
I don't know if I can run 10k.
And um, yeah, so I did.
The next next Sunday I went outand I did a 10k run and my back
killed me.
I remember stopping at Nunda,and I still had a another K K
and a half to go to get home.
So I live on the top of a hillat Wavell Heights.
And um, yeah, I I got the 10kfinished and and didn't improve
(14:54):
things straight away, but yeah,it set me on a path that I you
know I started to get a bit moreserious, and I I asked him some
more questions and he mentionedinterval training, and I
started to do that on on aMonday, I think it was, after
the long run.
I didn't know anything abouthow you do you do you don't do
two hard days in a row.
(15:14):
I didn't know anything aboutanything like that.
You know, I didn't knowanything about strength
training, so I I ended upgetting injured really badly
that later that year, and I gotwhat was called PHT.
If I've ever had that proximalhamstring tendinopathy.
Matty (15:32):
Okay, okay.
Mark (15:33):
It's the upper part of the hamstring that you know joins
onto the onto your glutes, andum yeah, it it the whole tendon,
it's not snapped or anything,it's just becomes malformed and
it's literally a pain in thebutt because otherwise you can
still run, which which I foundreally weird.
The physio said you can get gofor a run, but you but you um
(16:00):
yeah, you'll have to you know bein pain after after you do it,
that you've got to do this allthis physio.
So I um well I keep going withthis story.
Uh oh by all means, I mean whatone sure but I I I end up get
finding whoever was whoeverhelped had on the internet the
(16:22):
best story about how to get ridof this thing.
And I I I found this guy umwho's the official physio for
Gold Coast Marathon by uh bytoken.
And his name's um actually I'llmention his name because he's
yeah you know promotes hisbusiness anyway.
His name's Brad Beer.
And as in as in yeah, let'shave a beer.
Matty (16:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Mark (16:45):
Oh, that's pretty cool.
Um and uh his he was adifferent sort of a physio.
He's he's about you come andsee him and you've got
something, he'll say, Well, youdo you do this program, or you
you need to look at taking upanother sport.
And uh you know, not it's notthat he's like the Gestapo or
(17:07):
anything, he's not he's a prettynice guy.
And um he he did a program forme and he had a gym next door to
his his um practice at um uhone one of those suburbs at the
Gold Coast at the back ofSurface Paradise anyway.
Yeah, yeah.
And um and he he took methrough this um full running
(17:28):
gate strength program, which I Ithought, well I you know, I'd
never thought I'd have to dothat to to be a runner, and uh
so that's when I discoveredstrength training, and he he I
went back there and I was socommitted.
I drove down the gold caseevery four weeks and he he
altered the program and andyeah, from January to June, it
(17:49):
took me six months to get rid ofthis thing.
Oh which and it but it was incovert year, yeah.
So I I had all this this timewhere I wasn't preparing for any
races anyway, and to to torehab, and and during that time
that I was rehabbing, I wentfrom and I looked this up this
(18:11):
morning, I went from 30k a week,which was in you know late
2019, this December, to 100k aweek by June.
Joshie (18:23):
And I did it fairly ridiculous.
Mark (18:26):
I did it by time, so what wasn't so much I was watching
the mileage, it was about yeah,every week I'd just add on 10
minutes, and gradually I justkept going up and up and up, and
um, I think it was 10 minutesanyway.
Whatever it was, it got me from30k to to 100k in the in the
six months.
Joshie (18:47):
Yeah, and um well marks um yeah, you must be slightly
ahead of that now.
I I just checked Strava in thiscalendar year.
Bear in mind we're in October,you've run over 4,000
kilometres, which is just shy ofthe five and a half thousand
I've done in the Corolla.
Mark (19:05):
Definitely had an easier year.
Matty (19:09):
4,000?
That's that's unbelievable.
Mark (19:13):
Well, I see I started this year's a little bit different.
I I started off the year Itried to race this segment.
And you know a guy in the clubwho runs this who ran the
segment and he holds the recordfor it.
Maybe I should mention his nameor let's um anyway.
(19:35):
You wouldn't think if if I toldyou his name, you wouldn't
think he's that competitive.
He actually is, he's very fastup up that you know that hill.
Joshie (19:42):
I know who you're talking about, yeah.
Mark (19:44):
Steep hill.
Joshie (19:45):
Yep, I know who you're talking about.
Mark (19:46):
Yeah, it starts at the bottom, there's some ballards
and right on Gimpy Road, andthen you run up around the
corner, and it almost kills you.
You can almost almost havealmost have to walk the last
last 10 metres because it's sosteep.
It's like a I guess thegradient is 15% or 20% or
something like that.
Matty (20:05):
Yeah.
Mark (20:06):
And um, yeah, I thought I every year I say I'm gonna
challenge you this time, and Inever quite get there, and this
time I I wasn't I wasn't sort ofin the the level of fitness to
to really come near it, and Iheard my hamstring.
So I started off the yearbadly.
Anyway, um what were wetalking?
What were we talking about?
Joshie (20:26):
Oh well, I was just uh truly staggered that uh you've
nearly run as far as what I'vedone in the corolla this year.
I guess what I wanted to checkwith you is um to what would you
say that your um or to whatwould you attribute your
resilience?
I mean, like you say, you'vebeen able to build up to some
incredible volume, and you know,I think you said that you you
(20:49):
did have some injuries in theearly days, perhaps whilst you
were ramping up a bit tooquickly.
I mean, yeah, um there'sthere's surely something that's
complementary to your runningregime, whether it's strength
and conditioning that must help.
I mean, what can you tell usabout the sort of the stuff
that's um peripheral orancillary to running?
Mark (21:08):
Well, I I definitely strongly believe in strength
training, and I do I do threesessions a week.
I've got my home gym.
So I've got um I've got a veryminimalistic gym.
All I think you need is some ofthose stretchy bands.
I buy the black ones from RebelSport, so the fabric, fabric
(21:30):
ones.
I think all you need is one ofthose, some heavy dumbbells.
I've got two fifteens and I'vegot a 24 kilo kettlebell.
So I think if you're gonna dowhite trade weight training or
any strength training, you needto go heavy.
And I I also have had a lot ofsuccess with just doing you
(21:53):
know, those band walks, you justwalk like a monster monster
walk.
Um, I call it the gunslingerwalk, as you almost feel like
you're you know you're movinglike the old gunslingers, so and
the guns strapped to them.
And um, I walk 10 metresforward, 10 metres back, and
I'll do that so three times, andI'll do the other stuff with uh
(22:15):
you know single leg squats andand um you know calf raises with
kettle with the kettlebell, andI'll um I'll do these things
called Nordic curls, and this iswhere I've got serious.
I've actually drilled into mygarage and stuck some diner
bolts in there with with loops,and then I've got the the ankle
(22:35):
straps with the hooks, and thenI hook in with my ankles, and I
then you you get a pillow infront of you and you go forward
as far as you can.
It saves stops the couchlifting up in the air.
Yeah, it saves a couch.
So I used to do that and thenput the 24 kilo kettlebell on
the couch, and I and I thought,well, this can't be very good
for the couch.
I said I wasn't a couch potato,but I did I do actually like
(22:59):
couches.
Joshie (23:00):
Yeah.
Mark (23:02):
It to be in one piece at least.
So um, yeah, they're they'refantastic.
Nordic curls, they're like 10on a scale of 10 in terms of um
what you can get out of them.
Matty (23:13):
Can I just also ask, Mark, in terms of like 4,000
kilometres um so far this yearis a massive amount of running.
Mark (23:21):
I think I thought I was actually you know a bit lower
than last year.
Strava's telling me I'm 10 10or 15% down.
I had two years where I reallydecided I wanted to build the
aerobic engine up, and that was23 and 24.
And I I actually averagedsomething like 110 kilometres
per week, including all of thetape and everything else.
(23:45):
And um both of them were bothof them had really big marathon
blocks in them as well.
I think 20, yeah, it was 2023.
I PB'd my marathon on the GoldCoast 311, and earlier that year
I did three, I remember I didthree 160k weeks.
(24:06):
I wanted to do uh the 100 mile,which is actually 161.
Matty (24:12):
160, yeah, something like that.
Yeah.
Mark (24:14):
Yeah, so I did that for three weeks and then I had a
down week.
That's typically what I do.
I go three hard weeks to onedown week, and I'll drop it to
about 120.
Matty (24:24):
Is there like I mean doing that sort of stuff though,
like that sort of volume andgetting up each day and
thinking, okay, here we goagain, you must have a s like
it's more than just say, here wego again.
But it's more than just gettingup and running.
And it you've got to have thelove for it to be able to do
that sort of volume.
Mark (24:43):
Yeah, look, I I know.
I I've sort of I was thinkingback, how did I do that?
Because I want to do it againthis this coming year.
I actually want to start, Iwant to start in December.
So I'm thinking December,January, Feb, I'm gonna do a
like a base builder, and I'm andI'm gonna do do it.
That takes me into 12 weeks, Ithink, or 16 weeks of marathon
(25:05):
training before Gold Coast,whatever it is.
Um, and uh yeah, I want to doit again, just to prove to
myself, yeah.
And and I think it works.
I I really strongly believethat building the aerobic
engine, you know, whether you'rewhether or not you're training
for a marathon or whether you'retraining for a even a 5K, you
(25:26):
know, Arthur Lidgard, the famouscoach, if you go and look at
some of his material, he he hehe proved it.
He he proved it on himself.
But um, you know, he didn't NewZealander, uh, he was suddenly
this New Zealand coach wasproducing Olympic champions, and
everyone said, What are youdoing?
And that's that's basicallywhat he did.
He just he looked at aerobicvolume.
(25:48):
Because everything from fivecarpers is an aerobic race,
isn't it?
Matty (25:53):
Yeah, that's right.
Mark (25:55):
5k is just short and hard.
Matty (25:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Mark (25:59):
Look, I I don't think I don't know if I'm evading your
question here, but I don't thinkI've got a lot of fast twitch
muscles.
I think I've got a a couple offibers in each of my legs that
and they get bloody tired in a5k I can tell you.
You guys you guys have probablygot way way faster twitch
(26:19):
muscles, way more fast twitchmuscle fibres than I have.
Joshie (26:22):
Well, 20 years younger, don't forget.
Mark (26:25):
I mean Yeah, yeah.
Were you running 400 and 800sand and you know sort of middle
distance stuff?
Joshie (26:35):
I was I was running for the tuck shop to be honest.
Yeah, yeah.
Mark (26:40):
I was never good, and never ever any good at that
short stuff, but at the end ofthe day when they had the 5,000
meter race on Sports Day, youknow, I'd I would I'd place
third.
I wouldn't it wasn't winningit, but and people would read
out my name and hey, SparkWheelsworth, it's you doing
there.
But I was always better at thelonger stuff.
Joshie (27:02):
Yeah.
Now look, Mark, we're we'reblessed to live here in the
subtropics, which um isfantastic for living, but it's
hardly good prep for a marathonin freezing cold conditions.
Um what can you tell us aboutyour soul marathon experience?
Soul, yeah.
Mark (27:18):
That that was that was the most fun marathon that I've
done because um you when you'rein another country and you've
you know you you you're you'resampling their culture, you
know, it can be a bit weird, butum yeah, that this this soul
marathon, I I started right atthe back of the pack.
(27:38):
It just I I've got actually aphoto that my wife took of me
with the rope across, and I'mright at the front behind this
rope because I didn't have aplace, I didn't have a uh a seat
in because I I'd never run inso in um Korea before, in South
Korea, so I couldn't go and jointhe 315 group or whatever.
(27:59):
But I had come off a good goldcoaster um in July, and this was
um this was October.
So I'd run through 313 in in onthe gold coast, and uh I um I
ran through the pack from fourthe four-hour group, mate, made
it up to the 330s, and then I Ikept going.
(28:19):
I made it to the 315s, and Ithought, oh, this is all I have
to do, I'll just say with these315 paces, and um they started
chanting.
And I don't know what the hellthey were chanting.
It sounded a bit weird to me,but uh they're chanting for you,
Mark.
Keep going.
Maybe they they were go goAussie, go Aussie.
(28:42):
Um so I I ran past them and I'dend up with 314, and I thought
that was really that was reallyhappy with that because I
thought the gold coast 313, thatwas you know the perfect flat
race and everything.
This was this was up and downhills and crossed the um the Han
River three times because inthe sh they made it in the shape
of an S.
(29:02):
It wasn't the spot the theSeoul marathon, which is early
in the year.
This is uh called the SeoulJTBC, which is uh content
provider, like more like likeseven plus or something like
that.
Okay.
And um, but it really wellorganized, really you know,
well-run race.
They had the the weirdest thingthough was they had just they
(29:23):
had all these sponges.
Like before you went up went upa hill, they'd give you a
they'd hand out sponges, andthis is like zero degrees.
Why don't why do I want thiscold sponge?
It was heated up, it'd bedifferent, but yeah, you're
actually wearing they gave youthe most excellent race kit.
I remember they they gave yousleeves and they gave you gels
(29:45):
and and wow um like heat packs,like like not gels to eat,
though.
Sorry, they're uh you know gelsthat you actually put on your
your skin to um warm you up.
Like all that stuff, Voltir andthat's that's what and uh and
something to eat.
They give you like a Packagedup um roll.
(30:09):
And um yeah, it was just areally well organized marathon.
That there was a nice area toget photos with, and it didn't
actually work very well becauseit had an L C D readout and you
know it was in the sun, but ithad your time on it.
You just scanned your your bibwhen you went up to the platform
(30:30):
and it would say who you knowwho you who you are, and this
would be your time.
But um that was a good idea.
Um yeah, that was probably mythe best marathon because I
didn't actually I've always hadthis problem with marathons that
I get nausea at the end.
And that's what's been holdingme back.
(30:50):
I end up running quite welluntil the last 10k.
I mean I I I just would love tonot fade away in the last 10k,
and I haven't done it yet.
But this that day with inSeoul, maybe because it was
cold, I only actually actuallyhad one gel.
I started to get I started toget the nausea that I'd I'd had
(31:11):
in the the Gold Coast.
Joshie (31:13):
You know, it's interesting.
Trying to nail race daynutrition is really difficult.
Mark (31:18):
I mean, you know, I'm also quite new to you apart from me.
Joshie (31:21):
To running, but yeah, I mean we very rarely practice um
you know taking on board gels orother forms of nutrition during
our our training runs.
I mean, it's quite on on a longrun, for example, it's quite
easy to you know, yeah, taketake some on.
But yeah.
Mark (31:38):
I I had this conversation with a coach and not John, it's
an another guy, and um he hesaid it was it's really hard if
you don't if you don't actuallyget it in the long run, you
know, you if you can't produceit, I've never been able to
reproduce it in any long runs,no matter what that what they've
been.
I've gone on some pretty biglong runs like 36, 38k.
Matty (32:00):
Yeah, you have, yeah.
Mark (32:01):
I've never ever got this nausea as what I get really in
the last 10k of marathon.
But but we've I've done someresearch and I've done done a
little bit of a trial.
Ginger.
It it's it sounds weird, but uhI don't know how I got onto it,
(32:22):
but that those travel calmyeah, I was gonna say travel
calm, yeah.
Yeah, they don't have any drugin them.
Matty (32:28):
I thought they had some sort of drowsy drug and you'd
you know you'd fall asleep.
Is it a ginger extract, is it?
Mark (32:34):
Yeah, it's just ginger.
They really make your guts feelwarm inside.
That's a that but that's youknow, that's something you can
live with, but it's much betterthan the than the nausea.
But I tried that right at theend of the Sydney marathon last
year.
And um yeah, instead of mebailing over at the end, which
(32:58):
I've been normally which Inormally do, and I can't talk to
anyone and can't walk for about10 minutes, I I actually as
soon as I took them right at theend of the marathon, I don't
know why I took didn't take itsooner, um, I just started
walking with this girl and Istarted talking to her, and I
was really realizing, hey, thenausea's gone.
(33:18):
So that's my indication thatthis this these ginger tablets
will work next time.
So I'm holding out a lot ofhope.
Joshie (33:30):
What I'd love uh Mark about yourself, I mean you're
not just committed to running,you're constantly looking at
ways that you can continue toimprove, and that's not just the
actual running, but the stuffthat is complementary to
running, whether it's um youknow how you manage nausea on
race day and how you um sort ofmanage um rehabilitation.
(33:51):
We'll talk in a few momentsabout some of your um some of
your setbacks, but I mean, doyou ever get the sense that
you've almost become uh a victimof your own success?
I mean, I was thinking aboutthis a little bit earlier.
I'm sure I'm not the onlyperson who's opened up Strava
and just gone, oh yeah,Wigglesworth just won his age
grade again, or you know, Mark'sjust gone straight from
hospital to another long run.
(34:12):
I mean, hope you I hope yourealise that um silently you
you're you're the envy of yourrunning peers.
What you're able to achieve isum is is quite incredible.
Mark (34:22):
I'm just a boring shit.
I just do get up and do thesame thing every day.
Seriously.
When I get in those marathonblocks, I don't know.
I I really can't remember whatmy state of mind is, but I I
don't ever feel that oh no, Ican't do this today.
I I just kind of look forwardto it in a weird sort of a way.
(34:45):
And I know I you know youprobably say, well, why do you
run you know mostly by yourself?
Well, I don't know, I just II'm happily I I like running
with people, but I I just youknow I just sort of keep going.
I don't know.
Joshie (35:01):
Do you feel that some there's a lot of people who we
know who we run with that woulduh by the way put their hands up
and admit that they're addictedto running.
I get the sense that for youyou're not necessarily addicted
to running, you're justpassionate about it and you
really enjoy it.
Mark (35:16):
Yeah, I think, yeah, it's it's a passion.
True.
It's it's a yeah you know.
I went to I was thinkingactually this morning, I went
went to this orthopedic surgeonabout my my hip.
That's been the ongoing thing.
It's it's actually really goodnow.
I call it a niggle, but it's umit's it's still I'm still in
the game.
As I left, I told him allabout, you know, I yeah, went in
(35:41):
these age grading things andand I was doing alright.
And he said, um have a good asI went out of the office, he
said, um, I think your hip'sgonna be alright till it's not
alright.
Have a good career.
I'm thinking, career?
Did he say career?
I'm thinking, yeah, the job Ido, I I'm virtually in, I would
(36:05):
say I'm in my retirement job.
I work three days a week now.
So I would say I put a lot moreeffort into running.
Running comes first as Iorganise my week than than my
job.
Although I like my job and Ilike getting things done.
Matty (36:22):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm pretty much the same,pretty much the same.
Mark (36:25):
I just like getting shit done.
I'm not a yeah, I'm not youknow, I'm a developer, but I'm
not a actually the thedepartment I work in is called
GHQ, which is geek headquarters.
But I've I would never describemyself as a geek, maybe a
running geek, but not not notnot as a software geek.
And I don't even like StarWars, to be honest.
(36:47):
I thought, oh, this is a bitpredictable.
Yeah, he's gonna go back withhis false arm and save the
planet, whatever.
Joshie (36:58):
One thing which I wouldn't mind just making uh
clear to listeners is a lot ofwhat we've spoken about isn't
tongue-in-cheek.
You genuinely did take uprunning seriously in your um
early 60s around the time youturned 60.
Mark (37:11):
I was what's 2019?
That was six years ago.
So I would have been yeah, 62.
68 in December.
Oh wow.
Joshie (37:23):
Um and yeah, you you genuinely have um won your age
grade at a a number of events.
Um one thing which I did wantto ask, and you know, with all
your recent running success, doyou have any regrets about not
taking up running more seriouslywhen you were younger?
Mark (37:39):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely, yeah.
Every time I run past one ofthose burnt runners.
That's right.
40 years ago, that could havebeen me.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Joshie (37:52):
Yeah, when you say run past them, you mean o over to
overtaking them, Mark, I'm sure.
Mark (37:59):
No, it's a good guy.
Um there's a guy because uh ofyour name's sake, Joshua um is a
really he's a real idol ofmine.
He's he's he's a fantasticrunner, he's a bird runner.
Matty (38:10):
And um I know him, yeah.
Mark (38:12):
We run past each other.
When I was doing the Saturdaymorning long runs, um, he was
doing his Saturday morning longrun.
I think he takes Sunday off.
And um, yeah, we we just seethe same place every week
because we both must havestarted must have started from
the at the same time at 4 30 inthe morning, whatever.
I I'm pretty religious, I dotend to do the same course every
(38:36):
week.
If I mean I'm I'm a boringship, but um I'm I'm I'm trying
to switch it up a bit now.
I'm trying a few differentthings, and um my son's a big um
a big thing in my life.
He um he's autistic spectrumdisorder, and um so I look after
him every every Saturday, butwe go running as well.
(38:58):
I drive over to his uhindependent living um flat where
he shares with a couple ofother um pro people with the
same problems, and um he uh hewas putting on a lot of weight,
and I've been taking him runningon Monday, Monday, Wednesday,
Friday.
I mean, we what we do is hejust walks to the other side of
(39:21):
a rugby field and runs back.
But he does that three three orfour times, but he's he's
dropped his weight from 126 downto 111 last Saturday.
Awesome.
I think it's fantastic, and andthat's not just the running,
it's you know, controlling hisportions and things.
So he he's a big um a big partof my life, um as well as my new
(39:47):
grandson, I guess, who um isnow 10 months old.
Matty (39:53):
Awesome.
Mark (39:53):
So yeah, yeah, I do have a life outside of running it and
and the the three days a weekthat I I work as a dev, we call
we call ourselves.
Um did I answer your question,by the way?
Joshie (40:09):
Uh you did.
I was sort of asking about youknow whether or not you had any
um any regrets about not takingrunning more seriously when you
were younger, but um, you know,hope hopefully you realize that
it's it's put you in good steadfor taking up running in in your
60s.
I mean, look at what you'rewhat you're able to achieve.
But um one thing which um I'mnot sure if you want to speak
(40:31):
about this, but I'll give youthe opportunity.
I mean, your journey hasn'tbeen without its challenges.
Um and not many people knowthat you had um I think quite a
quite a health scare only a fewmonths back.
Um and correct me if I'm wrong,I think you referred to it as
something called transientischema or something along those
lines.
Mark (40:49):
Yeah, that scared the shit out of me.
There um actually this wholewhole year's been a bit bit
weird.
Yeah, I had this thing, and umit's um it's possi it's a
possible um what's the word?
It's something before you get astroke.
Like a precursor or yeah,that's the word, precursor.
(41:10):
And uh it's um it's a called aTIA, transient in Semic Attack.
And um, but the the key wordthere is it's um transient.
So what happened was I haddouble vision.
I was I was working on as I doon a Monday at the office, and I
was sitting next to next to aguy, and uh I I tore this double
(41:32):
vision on my two computerscreens, and uh suddenly they
there were four computerscreens.
And I looked at him and therewere two of him as well.
And so I stood up, I justthought this is just a bit a bit
strange, something's just youknow, I've just been focusing on
the um on the text for toolong, and it persisted.
(41:52):
It kept going for about two orthree minutes, which was and
really well.
I said I said to him this I'mgonna need um need some
assistance, so I could par likeparamedic assistance.
Something weird's going onhere, and he he got a first aid
person.
They they they liaised with theambulances and tried to get
somebody over there, and theywent through the the you know
(42:15):
the normal things you do and youknow checked checked whether I
was hot and you know whetherwhat my other vital signs were
as much as I could see, but umit stopped all of a sudden, you
know, after a couple of minutes,yeah, it just went away and I
was feeling normal again.
They came out anyway, the theparamedics and gave me a blood
uh blood pressure test and andum whatever else they do.
(42:40):
Um pulse um that's about it,isn't it?
What else do they do?
Matty (42:47):
Yeah, just your vitals, yeah.
Mark (42:48):
Yeah, just my vital signs.
And they said, yeah, they theymentioned they were the first to
mention TIA.
You could have had this TIA.
So then then it over the nexttwo to three weeks I had to go
through all these MRIs andultrasound, and and then this
one ultrasound report came backand said uh I had something
(43:08):
wrong with my um carotid artery,like plaque in my carotid
artery.
So so that was followed up witha a vascular surgeon and
appointment, and and I wentalong to him and uh he said, Why
are you here?
I said, Oh, you know, I've hadthis TIA, blah blah blah, and
you know, the ultrasound.
And I don't agree with theultrasound, it's uh they've made
(43:31):
a mistake, they've measured itwrong, and then they didn't they
didn't check the flow rate oneither side of the of the the
artery where they're saying it'sa blockage and there's no
difference in the flow rate.
He said, Oh, I won't, you youwon't, you're not no different
to any other you know,67-year-old male.
Oh, geez, this has made my day.
Yeah, there's nothing wrongwith me.
(43:52):
He's I said, Well, what couldpossibly have caused?
And he said, Well, it it couldpossibly have been dehydration.
And I remember I came off areally hard marathon workout
that weekend.
I possibly didn't recover fromthat.
And um that's the only thing Ican think of.
But I've had no recurrencesince um I I trust this.
(44:16):
I I checked around, and thisguy apparently is very well
recognised um as a vascularsurgeon, and um yeah, nothing's
come up since um I've sort ofbeen all in in the I'm in the
auction now.
And the only good thing isabout all these, have all I've
had all these tests done.
I also had some radiotherapy ona skin cancer, and I had to go
(44:39):
20 times, would you believe, tomake sure this thing didn't
recur into the nerves because itthat there's BCCs, which are
basal cell carcinomas, and thisthere's squamous cell
carcinomas, and then squamousget into your nerves, so I had
to have this radiotherapy.
So after all of these, my youknow, I've paid out all this
(44:59):
money to to get all this allthis stuff done, and sudden
suddenly you go over thisthreshold.
So if I go to a doctor now or aspecialist, it's like about
five bucks or something.
This fantastic threshold.
So I'm trying to think whatelse can I get done this year?
So that's the good part of it.
But um, no, I'll it's actuallymade me feel better about my
(45:21):
general health because I Iobviously from this um this I've
also had some prostrate um sometests as well, and and they've
they've checked checked me over,and I definitely don't have any
cancers or any growths oranything like that.
But I've got this this weirdthing that happens to men of my
(45:42):
age that your your prostate justgrows and it gets bigger, and
suddenly you've you know gettingup once a night is like a
luxury.
It's more like four to sixtimes a night.
I actually cheat I cheated lastnight and I had a couple of um
a couple of neurofin, which likeany inflammatories, and that
(46:03):
that that makes you only get upabout two or three times.
So I only do that about once ortwice a week.
I take two neurofin going tobed just to help me sleep.
But that's all gonna be over,hopefully, on November 14.
Or not sorry to notimmediately, but I'm having this
um procedure done that actuallyshrinks the down, actually
(46:25):
going and into the artery, andthey they do something called
emeralization.
Um, it's called PAE, prostrateuh artery emeralization, and
that eventually after about Ithink it's up to months or
something later, your prostatestarts to shrink and everything
goes back to not maybe normal,but it gets back to a stage
(46:47):
where you yeah, you've made ahuge improvement with you know
not having that pressure on yourbladder because the prostate
shrinks down.
Joshie (46:58):
So can I ask, Mark, whenever you go into these
appointments and with aspecialist, if ever they
recommend a procedure, is yourfirst question how long do I
have to take off running?
Mark (47:08):
Absolutely.
Well, you think I've chosenthere's about three other
procedures you can get.
I said, Oh, can you run thenext?
He said, You can walk out thenext walk out that day, as long
as you have somebody to take youhome.
Oh, that's great.
What about can I run the nextday?
He looked at me funny, he said,Well, you well, you could, but
(47:30):
you probably won't feel like youyou want to because you you're
gonna you get apparently thisfever from having the the
procedure done.
Okay.
Um but fever, smever, you know.
If I'm feeling okay, I'll gofor it.
Yeah.
If it's part of your life andyou you can possibly use that to
(47:52):
to make you feel better that'sright because of your your
general well-being, well, whynot?
Joshie (47:59):
Well, I think if ever if ever there's a moment that
embodies the the spirit of MarkWigglesworth, it's a photo of
you on Strava, I think, fromlast year or maybe the year
before.
On the long run, bruised, and Ithink I checked the following
day, you somehow managed to do a30k long run or something.
Mark (48:18):
Well, yeah, I had to continue with I was in the
middle of a long run when I fellover.
I was well for a brief moment Ithought I'd I'd be able to get
up and keep going.
But then then I just saw thisblood just falling off my face.
I tried to hail down a coupleof cyclists to um to to just
check me over.
They didn't stop the buggers.
(48:39):
So um I sort of had to givemyself a HIA to hit injurious.
What day is this?
Oh, it's Saturday.
Who's the Prime Minister?
Um Scott Rogers.
And anyway, I um yeah, I uhwhat happened was I was wearing
the Alpha Flies, and you knowhow they don't have any give,
(48:59):
they're so stiff.
I just had to clip this um thisum telecom that telestrop um
box.
It was probably old enough tobe telecom they didn't put the
lid down properly, and I justclipped it and I I just went
over straight over on onto a itwas a corner uh just near um
(49:20):
Northgate station, I think itwas.
Um no, is it Northgate?
Yeah, anyway, somewhere aroundthere, and um yeah, like I I
went it went like knees, elbows,face because with momentum.
The face was the last one, butit was on that really rough
bitumen as well that had yeah,yeah.
(49:41):
Not the smooth stuff, the thereally rough stuff, and yeah, I
I I gashed my face.
I didn't need any stitches, Ithink, any searches.
I I just basically basicallyjust glued it back on, I glued
it back together.
Yeah, but I had yeah, bandageson my face and my knees, my
(50:02):
elbows, and shoulder, shoulder,that was the other thing,
shoulder.
And um, yeah, I I I went home,I ran home, which I can't even
remember.
Blood all over.
Matty (50:12):
Oh wow.
Mark (50:13):
I was just I was hoping I just didn't run it.
I didn't see anybody because Iwas mate, it was five five or
five thirty in the morning atthat stage, and um you know, I
just ran up Radie Road and gotgot to home and I scored out my
wife before you come down, I'vegot blood all over me, but it's
all okay.
We're just gonna go up to thehospital.
(50:34):
And yeah, I went to the privateemergency, you know, it's it's
where you pay $400 and they giveyou the first class treatment.
You don't have to wait,otherwise I'll be waiting in
casualty for two hours.
So I just walked in there andthey they were really good.
They fixed me up.
And yeah, went home and wentrunning the next day, and I
think I ran past a certainmember of the Chernside um
(50:58):
running community or turnside intraining club who um must have
ged up whoever it was runningwith, but they clapped as I went
as I went past.
Joshie (51:11):
I just would have shook my head in disbelief.
Uh yeah.
Mark (51:15):
I thought I felt okay otherwise, you know.
I just had just had a bit ofskin missing.
Gross back.
Joshie (51:22):
Honestly, I'm true, yeah, truly amazed at your um
resilience, Mark.
Um we've got just a couple ofquestions before we um before we
wrap up.
Um what would you say is yourgreatest running achievement?
Mark (51:35):
My greatest running achievement.
Joshie (51:38):
Something that you sort of look back on and think, you
know, whether it either all cametogether or something where you
overcame adversity, justsomething that you think is in
your I guess hall of fame?
Mark (51:50):
That's a good question.
Um there's been a lot.
Um probably the I know 5k isactually my nemesis.
It's like the race that scaresme the most.
I'll be I'll be so nervousbefore a 5k, but I'll go to a
(52:12):
marathon and it'll just all bein my stride.
Maybe because of the build-upor something.
Marathon, you've just basicallyyou've done so many months of
preparation, you just followfollow the plan.
But 5k's um yeah, they theyhurt.
Matty (52:29):
5k really hurts, and that's where I think the anxiety
comes in.
And um, yeah, that's right.
I think huge anxiety.
You know you're gonna be inpain.
Mark (52:37):
I've got it now, because there's a there's a 5k race I'm
going in on the weekend.
But yeah, first time I wentunder 20 minutes in the 5k,
because the what happened wasthat was at the end of that big
year I had when I first went to100k and the COVID year.
So the first the first park runback was November, right?
(53:02):
And without any training, I Iwould I had got gone the year
before so many park runs tryingto break 21, and I was never get
never gonna get there.
I don't even get I even comeclose to breaking 21.
But after this COVID year wherethere's no park runs, I just
ran.
Suddenly it was 2018.
(53:22):
I thought, oh geez, that'salright.
I ran 2018, I haven't run itrun in a race for such a long
time, and I've broken 21.
I thought, what if I do sometraining towards the towards a
5k?
And so I did that for about sixweeks.
I I just got a training programoff the internet, I followed
(53:45):
that religiously, and yeah, butI went back and I ran 1946, so I
took 30.
That's hard to take 30 secondsoff.
Oh, yeah, it is at any time,isn't it?
And I just felt really goodbecause everything had gone to
plan.
Um yeah, I just just went outand just just did it.
(54:05):
Awesome.
Fantastic.
Had some good runners that day.
Yeah, a couple of couple ofother people who were just
behind me.
Um, and um, yeah, it was just agreat day to achieve something.
Joshie (54:22):
Yeah, oh I love that.
Um I can see you putting yourshoes on in the background.
I can tell that you're itchingto get out and run again.
But before we finish up, um,what's on the horizon for for
next year?
Is there any either event or orgoal that you have your site
set on?
Mark (54:36):
Yeah, well big big, as I said before, big base building
session or um big base buildingplanned.
So I'm gonna do about threemonths of that.
Um I've booked in so far forSydney.
So because I did the candidacyrace in 2023, I think it was,
(55:00):
where they were trying to setthemselves up to become an
Abbott major, um, they gave gaveyou um uh guaranteed entry for
the next next three years.
So all I had to do was justjust um send them a name.
They'd send me an email and Ijust responded back to that with
the link and filled everythingout.
(55:20):
So I'm all paid up as a umcompetitor for for Sydney next
year, which is um exactly eightweeks after Gold Coast.
So that so I'm gonna do GoldCoast.
Yeah.
So I think yeah, I did the GoldCoast half this year, and I
yeah, I got that got that frommy age age group, which was
good.
And I got a nice trophy, youknow, they usually just give you
(55:42):
medals.
So I'm gonna go back and do thedo the um don't call don't ever
call marathons full marathons,and somebody told me that
because it There's only onemarathon.
Yeah, it it depreciates itdeprecates the half marathon
because the half marathon is ahard race.
Yeah, I'm doing the fullmarathon, not the hard it's the
(56:04):
marathon.
Yep.
And um so I'm gonna do that andSydney eight weeks apart.
I hope that goes well.
I think the key with that isthe um is the recovery from from
the first one.
Matty (56:20):
Yeah.
Mark (56:20):
So hoping to hoping to keep the same level of fitness.
Joshie (56:25):
So for next year, is it a a time-based or an age grading
kind of goal that you've gotyour site set on?
Mark (56:31):
Yeah, well, I want to get back to under 315.
I've I've done I've now donethree under 330 and three under
315.
So I want to get back to addinganother one to that under 315.
Square the ledger, I love that.
I really want to break 310, tobe honest.
Matty (56:54):
Yeah, uh that'd be awesome.
Mark (56:55):
Look, I mean, if you you if you gave me some special
training program to um to breakthree, and it would guarantee
that I'd do it, like run aroundMarchant Park at midnight for
six weeks naked.
Sign up for that.
I still haven't thrown outthrown that out the window that
(57:19):
I could.
So would I I'd sign up for thatas well.
Joshie (57:22):
Oh, yeah.
I'd happily sign up as aspectator.
Mark (57:26):
No cameras allowed, no phones allowed.
Um we still hope to do it.
I mean, I I know I'mapproaching 70, like 68, 68 in
two months, December.
Um so 69.
But yeah, I'd I would yeah, Iit's not impossible.
It's not, no.
My my my brain can say, well,all I have to do is run better
(57:50):
than 415 uh per 415 per K.
Matty (57:56):
Um over 42k, you still like how it's uncomprehendable
for me, yeah.
Joshie (58:03):
It's like that's all I have to do.
Um for some people, like it's athat's a time trial, you do
realise.
Um for us mere mortals.
That's um well, that'sfantastic.
And look, um Mark, thanks um somuch for joining us on Run
Believable.
It really has been a joyspeaking with you, and yeah, we
um we certainly wish you all thevery best over the next um 12
(58:27):
months in particular, but beyondthat, with your running goals,
and yeah, it's um once againthanks so much for taking the
time to speak with us today.
Mark (58:34):
Thanks, Josh.
Thanks, Maddie.
Joshie (58:36):
Thanks, mate.
See you see you soon.
See you, mate.
Wow, Maddie, what aninspiration.
Um hearing Mark's story, I'llbe brutally honest, makes me
feel somewhat conflicted, Iguess.
Um, I'm not sure whether itgives me a sense of hope or
despair because what what he'sable to achieve at his age, let
alone any age, is um is quiteincredible.
Matty (58:57):
Yeah, I I think it's really inspirational, and I
think for myself, like I hope Ican keep running till that age
and and run well like he is.
Um, you know, he obviously getsa lot out of it as well.
Yeah.
Joshie (59:10):
Tell you what, all all he has to do is run 42.2ks at
415 pace.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you've got a run believablestory of your own, we'd love to
hear it.
Make sure that you follow us onInstagram and if you want to be
a guest on the show, then hitus up.
And finally, this podcastrelies on your continued
(59:33):
support.
So please take the time tofollow, rate, and share this
podcast with your running matesand see you in the next run
believable adventure.
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