October 28, 2025 • 44 mins
Episode Description
Running injuries can break your body and spirit.
After back-to-back wins at the Guzzler 21K, trail runner and paediatric physio Ash O'Loughlin was flying. Then, a complex knee injury brought everything to a halt; forcing her to swap long runs for long rehab sessions and rethink her relationship with running.
In this raw, emotional and inspiring episode of Runbelievable, Joshie and Matty sit down with Ash to talk about recovery, resilience, and rediscovering joy when you can’t do the thing you love most. From confronting moments on the trails to reclaiming her confidence and redefining her “why,” Ash’s story reminds us that the toughest races aren’t always between the start and finish line.
In this episode:
- How Ash went from teenage runner to two-time Guzzler 21K champion
- The complex injury that changed everything
- Reclaiming trail safety and confidence after a confronting experience
- Finding new ways to stay sane when sidelined
- Why stepping back sometimes moves you forward
Runbelievable: real runners, unreal stories.
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Got a Runbelievable story or interested in being a guest on the show? Hit us up on socials or email us at joshua@runbelievable.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ash (00:07):
One of the things I'm proud of is making the decision to
stop running, which is soundsinsane, but that was one of the
hardest decisions I've ever madeis to go, enough's enough.
Let's let my body heal and tryto build back up again.
And that was really scary.
Joshie (00:26):
Hello everybody and welcome to Run Believable, the
podcast where everyday runnersshare their not-so-everyday
stories.
I'm your host, Josh Tristan,and I'm here to bring you
stories of grit, glory, andovercoming adversity.
Each episode, we'll dive deepinto what first got people
running and what keeps themwaking up day after day.
From the laughs and thelessons, the half marathon is
(00:48):
getting in the way.
We're here to share what makesrunning a truly human
experience.
And later in this episode,you'll meet an accomplished
runner who's currently taking aninjury forced timeout.
Doesn't that suck?
But we are going to hear aboutwhat she's doing in the interim
to stay sane.
Maddie, welcome back.
How are you, my friend?
Matty (01:09):
Yeah, good, thanks, Josh.
Um yeah, really well.
Um things are going great.
Uh still keeping up uh myweekly training, so yeah, all
good.
All good.
Good run.
Did you run this morning?
No, I didn't.
I wanted to, but I couldn't.
Joshie (01:25):
So a rare day off.
Matty (01:27):
Yeah, I might run later today, but it might be too hot.
Just wait.
Joshie (01:31):
Yeah, it's not too bad out there.
I ran this morning, as youknow.
Um look, I'll be honest, man,after Melbourne, I'm yeah, still
really struggling to findmotivation to run.
So it was good to get outthere, but I don't know.
As runners we go through thesemoments where we're not
necessarily enjoying things, andthat's okay.
Um, I guess we just need tolisten to our minds and our
bodies and just do what's best.
Matty (01:51):
Definitely.
Joshie (01:52):
You gotta you gotta enjoy it.
You gotta love it.
I think so.
I mean the risk is that you endup resenting it and you know
you're not really being fair toyourself, um, and ultimately
just compromises yourperformance.
Matty (02:04):
Um, exactly.
Yeah, if it's a chore, um, andthat's how I sort of operate, if
if it feels like a chore, umhave a have a little rest.
So you love chores though.
Joshie (02:13):
You said you love doing housework.
You told me once that when youclean the toilet, like you get
your head right up on the that'smy favourite.
Matty (02:23):
That's my favorite.
Joshie (02:24):
Well, you welcome around here any time, mate, to clean
the toilet.
Now, let's get stuck into theunbelievable rundown, and just a
reminder that this is where weshare highlights, mishaps,
little wins, the kind of stuffthat Strava simply can't
capture.
Now, I recently posted a pollabout pre-race nutrition.
Matty (02:41):
Um, do you happen to have the results on here?
Yeah, I do I do, and and quitediverse range of results and
quite interesting.
Um I wouldn't have thought theywent they um would have gone
this way, but uh we had 30% ofpeople um uh have water as a
pre-race uh nutrition, right?
Um 20% electrolytes, 10% gel,okay, um, which I thought would
(03:03):
have been higher, um, and 40%something else.
Um I always have a gel before alongish run, so anything sort
of 12 to 20 plus, I'll have agel prior.
Um yeah, very interesting.
And something else.
What could the something elsebe?
I wonder.
Joshie (03:22):
Uh look, it could be I don't know, peanut butter on
toast.
You swear by that.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh bananas, lollies, coffee.
Um it's a real diverse range ofwhat people I I invited DMs
from listeners and we actuallyhad quite a few, but the one
that made me giggle the most wasfrom sorry, Jeff Marsh, who, by
(03:45):
the way, is okay for me toquote him on this.
He said, and I do quote, I tryto eat and drink enough that he
doesn't bonk or cramp during therace, but not so much that he
shits himself when he gets up.
Matty (03:59):
And he runs very well across um longer distances, so
it obviously works for him.
Joshie (04:04):
Does now look shitting yourself during a race is a
whole other conversation,Maddie, that we'll leave until
there's a much lower risk oflosing listeners.
Now speaking of nutrition, I uhdid realise afterwards that I
might have missed something inthe poll.
Now, how this came up inconversation, I don't know.
But do you remember when youand I were in Melbourne, you
(04:26):
tried to convince me that secondonly to water, that the product
most consumed by humans wasconcrete.
That's right.
Now look, Maddie, you know Ilove you, and you're uh a bit of
a trivia messiah, and I wouldnever doubt the veracity of your
stats, but are you suggestingthat runners are more likely to
reach for limestone beforelime-flavoured gels?
Matty (04:49):
Well, if you're talking Depends here, you can manipulate
any data.
Joshie (04:54):
No, I have just done that, yes.
Matty (04:55):
I I did hear I did hear that, that um the product most
consumed by human beings isyeah, uh, water first and then
concrete.
And when you think about it,like everywhere is concrete.
That's true.
Everywhere.
Joshie (05:10):
You know, because that stayed clearly that stayed with
me after we had thatconversation.
Now funnily enough and I shityou not, after Melbourne
Marathon, you know how when youlook at Strava, you can have a
look at who ran with you at thesame route, same events.
So I was just browsing throughand having a look at other
people's activities from theMelbourne Marathon.
(05:31):
And there was one dude, and bythe way, it was on my mind that
stat that you told me, hisactivity said ate concrete at
30ks, but kept going.
So you may be right after all.
Matty (05:46):
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
Joshie (05:48):
Now, look, if you have something that you'd like to
contribute to the run b uh tothe unbelievable rundown, then
send it our way.
Now, Maddie, I'm going to takepity on you after your epic fail
at Shuemai.
So we're going to park thatsegment for a while with a view
to restoring your confidence.
So let's see how you go today.
(06:09):
We have a different quiz.
Today's is a simple fact orfiction.
Matty (06:15):
Okay.
Joshie (06:16):
So these questions are all about the Melbourne Marathon
Festival, which you know wasearlier in October.
We were both there for theevent, so you should be well
placed to get three out ofthree.
But let's see how you go.
No pressure.
And just to let you know,Maddie has to guess if the bit
of trivia that I'm reading outis fact or fiction.
(06:37):
Feel free to play along athome.
Question number one.
The world record was broken forthe fastest marathon completed
in a suit.
Matty (06:49):
That's that's fact.
That's fact.
I saw him interviewed.
Joshie (06:53):
That is correct.
Now, do you want to have aguess at what his time was?
Matty (06:57):
Yeah, it was.
I went back and I watched, Ithink last week I watched the
Melbourne Marathon and I sawthat guy.
Um, it was two hoursthirty-eight.
Joshie (07:09):
How the hell do you know that?
Well, yeah, close.
Two hours thirty-eight andtwenty seconds, so I can't.
Ah, come on.
Matty (07:18):
You've got to give me that to know that, jeez.
Joshie (07:21):
Far out.
Alright, question number two.
The men's half marathon was wonby Adam Goddard.
Fact or fiction?
Matty (07:33):
Uh fiction?
Joshie (07:35):
That is correct.
Matty (07:37):
He came second, I think, didn't he?
Adam Goddard?
Joshie (07:40):
Not quite.
He actually won the 10k.
Matty (07:43):
Ah, that's right.
Yeah, okay.
Joshie (07:44):
Do you want to have a guess?
Actually, I don't want to giveyou an opportunity to guess
because it's just actually, youknow what?
Have a go.
At what the time?
Yeah, go for glory.
Matty (07:52):
Um one hour, four minutes.
Joshie (07:57):
For the half?
Matty (07:58):
Yeah.
Joshie (07:59):
Oh no, sorry, the 10k is what he won.
Matty (08:01):
Oh, the 10k.
Um, yeah, it was 28 minutes, Ithink.
28 something.
28.40 for I mean, gosh, dude.
Joshie (08:10):
Wow.
Matty (08:11):
Well, who who who watches a six-hour replay of the
Melbourne Marathon during theweek?
Me.
Who has six hours replay?
Joshie (08:19):
Oh, all right.
Question number.
Question number three, and he'son fire.
Two from two.
In winning the women's half,Izzy Bat Doyle narrowly missed
breaking the course record.
Fact or fiction.
Matty (08:34):
It's fact.
Joshie (08:37):
Ha! It's fiction.
Matty (08:38):
Ah, she did break it.
Joshie (08:40):
She did.
And once again, do you want tohave a crack at the time?
So Izzy Bat Doyle.
Matty (08:44):
She actually did break the course record.
One hour twenty-three.
Joshie (08:49):
Much quicker than that.
An hour eight fifty-five, shesaid quicker.
Matty (08:53):
Yeah, yeah, that was quick.
Yeah.
Joshie (08:55):
Now, how did you go at home?
Feel free to let us know.
Today's guest is someone whoselove for running has recently
been cruelled by injury.
She started running in her lateteens, but before long she was
truly tearing up events, winningthe Guzzler 21K in both 2024
(09:16):
and 2025.
But after that success came asetback, a rather complex injury
that's sidelined her and forcedher to rethink her why.
A physio by trade, she'sworking through a process to
rebuild both body and mindset.
She's also our first ever trailrunner on Run Believable with
an honest take on safety,recovery, and finding joy again
(09:41):
after the path gets rocky.
So can we please all welcomeAsh O'Lachlan?
Ash, thanks so much for joiningus.
Thanks, Ash.
Ash (09:50):
It's good to be here.
Joshie (09:52):
Awesome.
Now look, we'd usually kickthings off with a bit of
background about your runningorigin story, but I'm going to
mix things up a little bit.
How bad was your knee when youtackled the sunny coast half
this year?
Ash (10:07):
That's so brutal to ask right off that.
Um it's a bit of a trickyquestion because I've dealt with
knee pain for like since I waslike 12.
So in some ways, I kinda Ioften get to the point where I I
kind of don't notice it.
Like I got really good atrunning through knee pain.
(10:28):
Um so look, it wasn't great.
Like I um stairs were not myfriend um sitting up from a
chair or any kind of lowsurface.
Um, I think straight afterSunny Coast, I think my big
thing was I went to like dip mytoe in the pool, like standing
on my right leg, and I like, oh,it almost I almost crumpled.
(10:51):
So um so leading into it, itdefinitely wasn't great.
But the funny thing is I Iwould rarely feel too much pain
while I was competing, and thatwas one of the reasons I loved
competing.
So I was like, oh, I get to gofor a run without noticing too
much pain because I don't know,adrenaline's a funny thing, so
(11:14):
yeah, yeah.
Joshie (11:18):
What can you actually tell us about the injury?
Uh I mean, you and I sat downand had a quick coffee before
today, and I'll be honest,there's obviously your work as a
physiotherapist, you haveinsights into exactly the nature
of the injury.
I mean, can you sort of help usunderstand a little bit more
about what you're dealing with?
Ash (11:40):
Yeah, so to be honest, half the time I sometimes I tell
people I have a meniscus injurybecause they hear that and
they're like, oh, I know whatthat is, and that's easy, and
then it's done.
Um, but yeah, it's it's it's afunny injury slash injuries.
I've had, like I said, I've hada long, long, long history of
knee pain, um, thanksbasketball.
Um it actually startedpredominantly with my left knee.
(12:00):
I dealt with a like a long-termpatella tendinopathy for a
really, really long time, and Ihadn't quite been able to get on
top of it, and it just kind ofgrumbled along.
Um, and I think what ended uphappening is I was biasing my
right leg so much for so longthat I actually ended up with a
fairly significant um cartilagedefect on that side.
Um it's called a chondropathy.
Matty (12:21):
So both both knees.
Ash (12:23):
Yeah, they're both knees, but like different things, which
is really strange, and they'reaggravated by different things,
which makes rehab really, reallyfun.
Um but yeah, so it's yeah, I'vegot a a full thickness
chondropy um in the cartilagebehind my my kneecap.
Um which anyone knows who knowsa little bit about um tissue
(12:44):
injuries and that kind of thingis is cartilage, is really
poorly vascularized, which meansit doesn't heal well, if at
all.
Um so it's one of thoseannoying injuries where it's
quite possible the the insultitself will never quite heal,
but it's about how much can Icompensate such that I can get
(13:04):
back to running?
Yeah.
Joshie (13:06):
So I'm going to declare my lack of knowledge about
physiotherapy, but when you talkabout poorly vascularized, does
that essentially mean thatthere's not much in the way of
sort of blood flow to helppromote healing?
Ash (13:22):
Yeah, exactly right.
Yeah.
Joshie (13:23):
Okay.
So I didn't realise it wassomething that you've been
dealing with since your youth.
I mean, you started running, Ithink, when you were 17, I think
you told me.
Ash (13:34):
So long distance, like longer distance running.
Like I always grew up doingteam sport and things and
running in some capacity, butyeah.
Matty (13:43):
It's quite ironic though, I think you're a
physiotherapist and you'vegotten the injuries.
Ash (13:49):
I get that all the time.
Joshie (13:53):
I mean, being a physio, I mean, how has your knowledge,
I guess, influenced or shapedyour approach to either training
or rehabilitation?
I mean, do you find yourselfoveranalysing the the injury?
Ash (14:08):
Yeah, yeah, it is a bit like that.
To be honest, it's like um howthey say doctors are the worst
patients, physios are the worstathletes.
Like, I like like I said, I ranthrough injury for a long time,
and I knew that was dumb.
Um, I've got the knowledge, butI don't know, when you're in
that when you're in that runningbubble, um yeah, it it it's
(14:31):
weird stopping running kind ofseems a bit incomprehensible,
even even as someone who has adecent amount of knowledge.
But um yeah, no, I definitelyself-diagnose and things, but um
I also surround myself withpeople who are a lot smarter
than me and a lot better atphysio in general.
So I I have a physio who I seeum who tells me what to do
(14:54):
because I won't do what I tellmyself.
Matty (14:56):
Yeah.
That that's very common withrunners though, that they push
through injury.
And I think it's I don't know,you I I've done it before where
you sort of say, Yeah, I've gotan injury, but it'll be okay if
I if I run this way or I do itthis way, um, which is not the
best option.
Ash (15:14):
It's not, and I think that's the kind of frustrating
thing about my injury.
Like, any injury sucks,obviously, but mine is like I I
can run and I could run, andthat was what like there are
times where I was like, I justwish I had a rolled ankle or
like something that physicallystopped me from running, but
there was a set like rest foryou know so many weeks and then
(15:37):
it's better and then it's gone.
Whereas mine is, you know, Ican run, it'll hurt a little
bit, but I can run, but it'llgradually kind of get worse over
time.
Um, so yeah, it's just and so Idid.
I did run.
Joshie (15:54):
Now you've been on the sidelines from what I can see
since the Sunny Cost.
So we're talking a few monthsnow.
Um and from what I know, you'vebeen absolutely smashing the
cross training now, which isfantastic.
Um, was it easy to flick thatswitch, that mindset, to focus
on something different?
Ash (16:16):
Um, good question.
Yes and no.
Um, I think when you've alreadygot the momentum from
consistently running, it'seasier to like in time-wise and
you know, commitment-wise, it'seasier to transition that over
to something else.
But um it is hard in thatnothing is quite like running,
and it in my experience, it's ittakes more to reach the same
(16:39):
kind of effort that you wouldfor running.
Like, I could be absolutelydestroying myself on the bike.
I'm dripping with sweat, and Ilook at my watch and I'm getting
the heart rate that I would ona you know, easy cruisy run.
Matty (16:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Ash (16:53):
So, yeah, you know.
Matty (16:55):
Would you also say like um you you build a community
within running or you're part ofa community, whether it be park
run, whether it be run clubs,whatever it may be, and then
transitioning, you kind of likeyeah, I think fitness-wise,
transitioning might be easier,but you're leaving that
community um that you've you'vebeen with for so long, which is
(17:17):
very encouraging and very ummotivational, um, those
communities.
Ash (17:22):
Yeah, and that's that's an excellent point, and it's
something that I have reallystruggled with, and I but also
really learnt from because whenI made the decision that no, I'm
gonna commit to a prolongedperiod of running and try to
rebuild, I was terrified that Iwas gonna, I was like, I'm gonna
lose all my friends.
All my friends.
Yeah.
Come on.
Which is so silly.
(17:44):
And I can honestly say I havenever felt more supported than
from when I made that decision.
The amount of my friends whohad like I say running friends,
like, yeah, I met them withrunning, but that doesn't mean
they're just running friends.
Yeah, have reached out to meand said, Hey, let's go for a
walk, let's go for a hike, let'sgo for a coffee.
(18:06):
Um, it's been it's been reallylovely.
So no, anyone who is sitting onthis precipice of injury or
making a decision whether totake some time out and that's on
their mind, I can say, don't besilly.
Your friends are your friendsbecause they like you and not.
Joshie (18:25):
That's right.
Yeah, yeah.
I guess it's one of thosethings that you haven't really
tested until you do take a breakfrom running.
It's kind of like having workfriends.
You don't really know which ofthose work friends will stick as
friends once you finish workingwith them.
And I guess it's the same withwith running.
Um, so I can understand thatanxiety is sort of going into
taking a break.
You would have thought, youknow, are these people truly
(18:49):
sticky friends?
Will I will those thatsupportive side of the running
community be there whilst I'm onthe sidelines?
Um, now I I guess what I amkeen to explore.
I mean, you've certainly beensmashing the cross-training.
Do you feel as though it'senough of a substitute for you
now?
Ash (19:08):
Um, enough of a substitute in terms of like like driving me
or like fulfilling that loveright now.
Joshie (19:15):
I mean, you've you've shown incredible commitment and
dedication to your running, andit's very hard to then switch
that mindset and apply that samekind of discipline to something
that's different, especially ifit's something that you don't
have a natural love for.
Ash (19:32):
Yeah, so obviously, like I I love running, and I will
hopefully always love runningand hopefully be able to do that
again.
Um yeah, it's an interestingpoint, and I think that's one
another kind of empowering thingthat I've noticed um since
taking my break is it's not justrunning that I crave, it's the
it's the challenge that I crave,and like as psychotic as that
(19:56):
sounds, it's doing somethinghard, and you know, it's hard
and you do it anyway.
Um, and the discipline and theroutine of it all, I think I
crave that more than I craverunning itself.
And I again I look like anabsolute psychopath on the bike
sometimes because I'm heart likeheaving and smiling because I'm
(20:19):
like, oh, that's it, I got it.
That's the running feeling.
Joshie (20:22):
Like, oh what you're saying before is the amount that
you have to put in to get thatsame feeling is a lot more so
that uh input that you have toexert.
Ash (20:33):
Yeah, and that's not to say these other disciplines like
cycling and things are areeasier than running.
I'm just not as good at them,and it's a different muscle
group that you're working.
So like my legs have to workharder in a particular position
that they're not used to to getmy hand up, like that kind of
thing.
Matty (20:49):
Running's also it's a process.
Um, it's you know, you youtrain and then you race.
Um, and all that all thattraining goes into that race.
So that whole process is Idon't know, it's it's something
you grab hold of um and go with.
And I think that, yeah, that'smaybe something.
If I went over to somethingelse, that I think I would miss
(21:12):
that as well.
Joshie (21:13):
Yeah, it's actually a good point because I guess with
running, we have a goal, whetherit's an event or a race with
cross-training, unless it'ssomething like a high rocks, for
example, uh it can be a littlebit more difficult to have that
um to have that discipline.
Now, Ash, um let's now go backto the beginning of your running
journey.
You mentioned that you startedrunning in your late teens.
(21:33):
What can you tell us about yourmotivation for lacing up?
Ash (21:37):
Um, like I said, I I always liked running, but more in the
context of um kind of teamsport, grew up playing
basketball, did a little bit oflike track and field and
cross-country in high school,but nothing serious.
Um And if we're being entirelyhonest, like I'd love to say,
oh, I liked running and teamsports, and then it seemed like
the natural progression, but Ithink like a lot of males and
(22:01):
females in this sport and and umtoday, I didn't start for the
right reasons.
Um I grew up, you know, throughmy teens, again, like a lot of
people do, with not a greatrelationship with food or my
body or exercise.
So to be honest, I startedrunning because it was a way to
burn calories.
Um and that's being entirelyhonest.
(22:21):
And like I'd be lying if I saidthat went away completely.
I still have those days whereyou know, you're you're not, you
know, oh, I ate that cake, so Ishould go for a run, which is
not the whole point.
Um but that's been the reallycool thing about running is
slowly it became less about thatand more about, oh, I actually
(22:42):
quite like this, and I feelreally strong doing this.
And that's actually one of thereasons, one of the things that
drew me to trail running is Imean, every female athlete is
amazing, but trail running womenfor the most part, they're
strong and they look amazing andlike sorry, not look amazing
like yeah, no, no, no.
(23:03):
I was like, I want I want bigquads for the first time ever.
I was like, what because if Ihave big quads, I can run up
that mountain.
So like it running in someways, you know, started as not
for the right reasons, thenrunning also helped me to find
the right reasons, if that makessense.
Joshie (23:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Um, and I wonder whether or notwith that sort of challenge of
trail running and climbingmountains, I mean, is there
something about you know the thethe vulnerability of it as
well?
Ash (23:38):
Yeah, yeah, I would definitely say that um it's hard
and it's not a glamorous sport.
And I think that's why running,partly why running friendships
and you know, for me, trailrunning friendships are so you
know, you get pretty close withpeople pretty fast because
you're doing really hard thingstogether.
Matty (23:56):
Yeah, that's right.
Joshie (23:58):
Yeah, totally agree.
As I mentioned at the start,Ash, you're quite an
accomplished trailrunner, andcorrect me if I'm wrong, but you
won the 21k Guzzler in both2024 and earlier this year,
2025.
Uh what can you tell us aboutthose experiences and in
particular backing up this year?
I mean, was there part of youthat was like, I need to defend
(24:20):
that title?
Of course there was.
Ash (24:25):
I'd be lying if I said there wasn't.
Um the first year, the firstyear to this day, like um sorry,
2024 was to this day one of myfavourite ever races.
I went in with it, went in withzero expectations.
I think I was training forSunny Crow's full marathon at
that time.
Um I kind of just went in, giveit a crack.
I hadn't been doing trailrunning for too long.
(24:46):
And the fact that I won wasjust like a cherry on top
because I genuinely just had themost fantastic day um out on
the trails and it was wonderful.
Um But yeah, this year, yeah, II am someone who puts an
immense amount of pressure onmyself.
No one else would have cared ifI placed or any of my family or
friends, but I yeah, there wasa little bit of me that wanted
(25:07):
to come back and and win again.
So um look, I still had fun,but certainly I think there's
you know, you're so focused ondoing well that perhaps a little
bit of the enjoyment goes outof it.
Um so yeah, it was still afantastic experience, but I was
a little bit stressed, and itwas a fairly close race as well.
(25:28):
I think second was on my tailfor most of it, so I was I was
working hard on it.
Joshie (25:32):
You see, that's something that I don't know,
with road races, it's very easyto access published stats and
have a look at timing data andsee where people finish and even
splits, you know, you can seewhether someone was coming
second at the halfway mark andwhether they went on to win.
And so I guess what we don'tknow from those guzzler
experiences is you know, werewere they close races?
(25:54):
Did you come from behind at anypoint?
I mean, uh sometimes it'seasier to be um be the hunter
than hunted as well.
Ash (26:02):
Um yeah, I agree.
If I had a if I had a choiceand if I raced probably a little
bit more smart, I would havehung back behind her a little
bit more and kind of chilledalong, but I don't know, I I
struggle with that.
I'm too competitive.
Um but yeah, you do get chased,which isn't so fun.
Joshie (26:24):
You know, it's interesting.
Um obviously it would have beenfantastic, and on paper it
looks like the same outcome, youknow.
You you won the 21k Guzzler twoyears in a row, but the the
feelings you would have had bothgoing into it and afterwards
sounds like were were completelydifferent.
It sounds like you know, onewas you felt like it was reward
for effort, and the other onewas like, you know, more a sense
(26:44):
of relief that you that you gotthe outcome.
Ash (26:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
Two exact same race butentirely different experiences.
Still love them, and like I hadsome of my friends who came
along to sport this year, whichwas fantastic.
I had a friend doing the 50,and like my community had built
more this year in terms of likeI turn up to trail races now and
I actually know people, andthat's fun in itself.
Joshie (27:08):
Now, look, you've um you've been quite open about
trail safety, and um, you know,especially as a as a female,
there's certain uh things thatyou're going to be more mindful
of than what us uh men are.
I mean, we're we're sort offortunate that we don't have to
consider the same uh set ofcircumstances that that you do
(27:29):
when when you're running.
I mean, what can you tell usabout your experiences um trail
running and in particular um,you know, there were there were
some incidents at Mount Cootha,I think was it either this year
or last year?
Um, I mean, are you happy to Iguess share some insights about
your experiences there?
Ash (27:45):
Yeah, so obviously it's it's a huge, huge topic, and um
one that obviously we can'tcover in in a single podcast.
But um, yeah, women's safety inin running in general and and
not just trail running isobviously something that is
becoming more spoken about.
Um yeah, last year there wasthe thing that brought it more
so to my attention was yeah, theum there was a couple of
(28:06):
attacks at at Mount Kutha.
Um and that really hit home.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, that really hit home for mebecause Mount Kutha was very
much my like, you know, quoteunquote safe trail.
Um well traversed, I know itreally well, I could do it with
my eyes closed, like I'd gothere if I wanted an easy cruisy
um run.
(28:27):
So when the attack ha attackshappened, it was suddenly like,
oh, my safe place has been takenaway, and that was really
disappointing.
Matty (28:36):
That is, yeah, that's horrible.
Yeah.
Ash (28:41):
And what's more, like track ran this um Trail Running
Association of Queensland ran afantastic event not long after
that.
Um, all about women's safety,and it was reclaim the trails.
It was like a largely women-ledrun, but you know, men were
welcome to join, and we did theLap at Kutha and it was
wonderful and empowering andla-di-da.
(29:01):
Um and then the next day I wasat Sandgate and doing what I
always do, which side note allmy friends and family will know
is I'm I'm really bad at goingout late for run too late to
run.
Um, so I'd done like a it wasafter dark, I'd done a run at
Sandgate sitting in my car.
Um, and a guy pulled up next tome, waited for me to get out of
my car, and then because he'dslammed his car door into mine,
(29:23):
waited for me to get out tocheck.
Anyway, long story short, hewas jerking off in his car.
Matty (29:29):
Um no.
Ash (29:30):
Which is horrendous and awful.
And I swore at him and wantedto cry, and then I just got so
angry, and you know, the factthat we'd had this fantastic
event the day before, and I wasfeeling so empowered.
And again, Sandate's anotherplace that was kind of like my
safer place, it's well lit, it'sfairly well traversed.
(29:50):
Yeah, and the fact that someonehad been able to take like in
10 seconds taken that awayinfuriating.
Matty (29:58):
Yeah.
And that's my safe that's oneof my safe places as well.
I run after Dark Dead all thetime.
Um, that's horrible.
I guess.
Joshie (30:07):
The reality is, Maddie, you and I go running there late
at night, not for one secondhaving to stop and think about
our safety.
Yeah.
Which I've crossed paths withyou from time to time running um
I'm sorry um uh late at night.
And you know, you're you'realways smiling, you look very
happy when you run.
But it's masking, I guess, areality of of being a a female
(30:30):
runner running late at night.
Matty (30:31):
Um looking over your shoulder.
Joshie (30:34):
Exactly.
You and I don't have to worryabout that, Maddie.
That's just a r a reality.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um Ash would be like, I Iimagine you hear a a noise or
someone you think is that athreat.
I mean, we we don't have to tostress about that.
Ash (30:48):
And that's it.
I think um we probably lookrelatively relaxed and smiley on
our runs because unfortunatelywe're just used to it and it's
just something that we kind ofdon't think about.
It's that you know, extramoment we take when we're
leaving the house, tellingsomeone where we're going, or
like I always have my live trackon on my on my watch so that
people can see where I am, orand it is, it's that, oh I'm
(31:11):
that those minute decisions I'mnot gonna run, I'm not gonna I'm
gonna run out onto the roadinstead of putting myself
between a car and a fence.
Like yeah, it's all thoseminute decisions that like you
said, it's being more talkedabout that um you know women
have to make that that um youguys might not necessarily
realise.
Joshie (31:30):
Well, you don't see it on you don't see it on Strava,
do you?
I think that's why it'swonderful that you're prepared
to be so open today, Ash,because there's so much that
gets lost in the data.
Um and it's that anxiety toeven just get out there and that
decision-making process thatyou must go through where it's
you know, safety first, runningsecond.
Matty (31:51):
And um I mean you I sorry, I don't think people
realise either that what theincident that happened out there
at Sangate, as you said, tookaway from you your safe place.
People don't think like that,they think of it as an incident,
but it has taken something fromyou.
I think that's really importantto highlight.
Ash (32:11):
It has, yeah.
And I still I still run atSandate and I probably still run
after dark, to be honest.
But I definitely I know exactlywhere it happened, and I know
exactly where I parked, and Ithink about it whenever I go
there.
Um yeah, like I said, it's justthat it's that little piece
that's that's taken, and it'stricky.
It's not as much as I wouldlove for us to click our fingers
(32:31):
and suddenly all the bad peopleare gone and women can run at
night and it's wonderful andgreat.
Um but we can talk about it andwe can make more people aware
of it.
Um and I think that's theimportant thing, at least at the
moment.
Joshie (32:46):
I mean, aside from as men, us being aware of what the
reality is as a female runner, Imean, is there anything that
you think we can we can do?
I know it might be a veryopen-ended, broad question, but
um is there anything that youknow male runners can do?
I mean, I'll give you anexample.
I remember reading somethingmany years ago about a woman
that went through a horrendousexperience over in the States,
(33:09):
and one of her suggestions wasif you're a male running on a
path and you see a female runnerheading towards you, um, cross
the other side of the street.
Or if you're running andthere's a female in front of
you, um, don't approach slowly,just you know, if you're going
quicker, just get past them andthen be on your merry way.
I mean, do you think thatthey're little things that can
sort of help?
Ash (33:30):
Yeah, exactly.
And that's what I mean.
This is it's such a big issue,and you know, the point isn't to
make, you know, for every onebad male runner like male out
there, there's a thousand goodones, and the point isn't to
make you guys feel bad.
Um, but yeah, it is littlethings like that.
It's crossing the road if yousee someone run, like if you see
(33:52):
a female trying not to lingerbehind her, um, either running
or on bike.
I've been followed on bikesbefore.
Um it's sometimes it's just asmile, like a gidae, like you
know, maybe lyric there.
Um it's checking in on yourfemale running friends, like, do
they need someone to run withthem after that?
Because it can be really hardto fit in training.
(34:13):
As someone who works full-time,7:30 to 4, I commute an hour
each day.
You can imagine in winter, it'svirtually impossible to not run
at night.
So it's do you need someone torun, you know, fit in your
running with?
Or um, you know, do you want meto be on your live track so I
can see you like running atnight?
It's it's all those littlethings.
(34:35):
Um, and it's talking about itso that on a wider level other
things can be set in place, youknow, whether that's
infrastructure that um creates asafe place for women to run um
at night or in the dark that'swell lit or etc.
Again, not that that alwaysmeans that there's no danger,
but um things like that.
(34:55):
And it's calling things out,like for the most part, like I
said, guys are really great.
But if you have a mate orsomething that uh says something
inappropriate or calls thatgirl, tell them that to rack
off, like without having thatconversation.
Joshie (35:13):
You know, Ash, I really appreciate you being so open and
transparent in talking aboutwhat must be quite an
uncomfortable topic.
Um, I am happy to shift gearssomewhat.
Look, you've um you've alreadyachieved so much in your running
journey.
What would you say sits atop asyour proudest moment?
Like if you had to say thatthere was something in the
unbelievable hall of fame, whatwould it be?
Ash (35:35):
Oh, that's hard.
Because there's yeah, yeah,there's what you're proud of in
terms of achievements.
Like, yeah, I'm proud ofwinning the races that I've I've
won, but I think it's more thethe interpersonal, the the
personal challenges that are thebiggest.
Um one of the things I'm proudof us of is making the decision
to stop running, which is soundsinsane, but that was one of the
(35:58):
hardest decisions I've evermade is to go, yeah, enough's
enough.
Um, let's let my body heal andtry to build back up again.
And that was really scary.
Um, so that was a big one.
Joshie (36:10):
Definitely, yeah.
It's a big call.
It is a big call to make.
I mean, most of us as runnerswould make uh an uncomfortable
yes call to continue rather thana courageous no.
Yeah.
Um, and especially because ofthe anxiety, uh, like Matt was
saying earlier about community,the the things that get lost,
those other things thatpotentially get lost when you
when you do take a break.
(36:30):
Um uh not what I was expectingas you're proud of.
I think that's fantastic, bythe way, to it wasn't what first
popped to mind, and I was like,oh actually.
Yeah, definitely.
Do you dare share anything thatsort of sits in like a hall of
shame?
Like if it ever had any uh sortof running into where it's like
(36:51):
that was just an epic fail, orwhere you've had to pull the pin
either mid-race, not showing upfor a race, or we've just gone,
that was just a disaster.
Ash (37:02):
I mean, we've all had our training fails and our race
fails and that kind of thing.
I think the most hilarious, andthis was weird because this
actually popped into my head asalmost one of my proudest
moments too, but it's also kindof hilariously bad, was um UTA
in May this year.
I did the 50, and it was myfirst ever Ultra, and I was the
biggest gumby ever.
(37:23):
Like I had no idea what I wasdoing.
I was on the in the you know,first wave amongst all these
sponsored runners, and I wasgoing, what the hell am I doing
here?
Terrified, didn't like didn'tfeel especially well, didn't
take any salt tablets because Iwas like, I've never cramped
before, I'll be fine.
20ks into a 50k run, or my leg,my leg's about to cramp, and
(37:48):
then it just got worse and worseand worse, and I didn't have
any anything to help.
I was like, I'd read somewherethat if you like apparently like
the gagging sensation can helpwith cramps.
I was like running a lot, likeshoving my fingers down my
throat to try and make myselfgag.
It was a mess.
I I at one point was running umat like I don't know, second
(38:12):
half of the race, I was alreadycramping, was looking so and
that's the thing about trailerrunning, you're focusing so hard
on not falling over that youdon't always look up, and I ran
headburst into a cliff overhangand just out.
Thank God there was someonebehind me because I like hit my
head, stumbled because I wasalready cramping, my quad
cramped, so I like stumbled tothe side.
(38:32):
My cliff face, and the guybehind me like grabbed my
shoulders and was like, Youokay?
I was like, oh, a bit woozy,but you know, off we go.
Matty (38:42):
I'll be another 30k, let's go.
Ash (38:46):
It'll be fine.
And it was fine for the mostpart.
I definitely didn't feel greatafter that race, but I finished
it, and that's why um it kind ofgoes in my full shame because I
was gumby and didn't know whatI was doing, but also I pushed
through and and got it done.
Matty (39:00):
And I think you're right, like as you said, us, like
we've all had our failures.
Um I've had plenty of them.
And you can you can sit thereand beat yourself up for dates.
Or one of the things I did witha recent race that that that
didn't go right for me waslooked at it and went, okay,
what can I take from it?
What can I learn?
And I realized I was it wasinexperienced.
(39:21):
Oh you know, I there was somuch I could take from that race
and and add to to future races.
So yeah.
Ash (39:28):
100%.
I was remember sitting on theplane ride home and I was doing
my little race debrief, and itwas, yeah, so much learning.
I was kind of chuckling tomyself at all the things I did
wrong, but I won't do themagain.
Well, I probably will do themagain, but um I'll get better at
them.
Joshie (39:46):
Now look, um Ash, before we finish up, what's on the
horizon for 2026?
And it does running feature atall in your plan.
Ash (39:55):
Yeah, and honestly, that's a really hard question, and um
one that honestly I don't reallyknow the answer to.
Um I think like Matt saidbefore, running is so about
routine, and previously I couldanswer that question, I'd be
like, yep, I'm doing this racenow, then and then this race and
then this race, and you planyour year around running though,
we don't realise it.
Um so for the first time,honestly, I don't know.
(40:17):
Um I I took the commitment totake three months off running.
That could be longer, becausehonestly, like money's still not
great, um, to be entirelyhonest, and that sucks.
But you know, I'd rather takemore time off and come back
better than to come back andstill be not good and also be
(40:39):
unfit.
I'd rather at least have aunfit.
Um, yeah, next year is gonnalook like maybe some travel, um,
keep cross-training, hopefullydo some running races and um see
what happens.
Joshie (40:53):
You know, some people put their intentions out to the
universe and sign up to an eventand just sort of hope that
everything magically comestogether.
And it's probably the easierdecision to make than to go, you
know what, I'm actually notgoing to commit, I'm going to
focus on other pursuits and goodon you for um for recognizing
that that should exist.
I've been tempted.
Ash (41:10):
I've been tempted.
Joshie (41:13):
All those messages come through, either about ballots or
um, you know, uh register onthis date, mark it in your
calendar.
It's it's so tempting, isn'tit?
Ash (41:23):
It is so tempting.
I re I literally got oneyesterday for um UTMB um for the
50k there, which was one I wasreally.
Matty (41:31):
Is that Mont Blanc?
Ash (41:33):
Yeah, I would I I uh um UTA qualified for the 50, so that
was always something else Inever thought I would do, but I
mean we'll see, we'll see.
I'm not saying anything.
We'll see.
Joshie (41:44):
That would be pretty epic though.
That would be amazing.
Not too we are trying to talkabout Yeah, you're like, do it,
do it.
Matty (41:52):
I know you gotta do Gazler, you gotta defend your
title, and that's it.
I'll see you at other races.
Ash (42:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's it.
There will always be moreraces, and that's the cool thing
about running.
We're seeing people like yourlast guest, like um it was Mark,
wasn't it?
Yep.
Hey, like, I've got so muchtime, you know.
Like, we can run the some ofthe best run endurance runners
ever are in their you know, 30s,40s, 50s.
(42:22):
We got time.
Joshie (42:23):
Mark's Mark's 67, I mean, it sort of gives a lot of
I know you wouldn't think it.
Um and you're quite young, Ash.
I mean, obviously you've got uha long running journey ahead of
you.
Um and look, before we finishup, uh, is there any one or any
organization you you want tosort of shout out?
I mean, you you've mentionedthat you've done a lot of uh a
lot of work in the in the publichealth space.
Ash (42:45):
Um Yeah, yeah, it's another big question.
There's so many fantasticorganizations and things out
there.
Um what wasn't mentioned um isthat I actually at the moment
work in pediatric physio.
Um so I work with all thelittle humans, um, and as
unrelated as it probably is tothis whole conversation, but the
um I do see firsthand the goodwork that people at the
(43:06):
Starlight Foundation do.
So if you're ever wonderingwhere to pop some of your money,
um, they're a fantastic one.
Um they do really great workwith all the sick little kiddos.
Um, so always willing to givethem a shout.
Matty (43:20):
Yeah, that's good.
That's awesome.
Joshie (43:22):
Ash, thanks so much for joining us today.
You're truly an inspiration tothe running community, and we've
had an absolute blast speakingwith you today.
Thank you so much.
Ash (43:31):
Oh, it's been great, guys.
Thanks.
Matty (43:32):
Yeah, thanks, Ash.
Been really good.
Joshie (43:35):
Well, don't know about you, Maddie, but I'm truly blown
away by Ash's story and herhonesty, her messages around
safety, um, and gosh, the thethings that we take for granted
as men.
Matty (43:47):
I think it, you know, it covered it covered everything.
It covered success withinrunning, it re um it covered
injury, it covered having abreak and transitioning, but
then most importantly, it gotthe word out there in terms of
um uh women's safety withinrunning, um, which um I learned
a lot from that, and I thinkit's imperative that that that
(44:07):
improves.
Joshie (44:08):
Yeah.
And also good on her for havingthe courage to take a break
from running.
Do you reckon you could ever dothat, Matt?
Matty (44:15):
No, mate, never.
Never.
Joshie (44:21):
Uh look, um well, that's it for today.
If you've got a Run Believablestory of your own, we'd like to
hear it.
And if you're interested inbeing a guest on the show, then
hit us up.
Finally, this podcast relies onyour continued support.
So if you take the time tofollow, rate, and share this
podcast with your running mates,we'd really appreciate it.
(44:42):
And we'll see you at the nextRun Believable Adventure.
One of the things I'm proud of is making the decision to
stop running, which is soundsinsane, but that was one of the
hardest decisions I've ever madeis to go, enough's enough.
Let's let my body heal and tryto build back up again.
And that was really scary.
Joshie (00:26):
Hello everybody and welcome to Run Believable, the
podcast where everyday runnersshare their not-so-everyday
stories.
I'm your host, Josh Tristan,and I'm here to bring you
stories of grit, glory, andovercoming adversity.
Each episode, we'll dive deepinto what first got people
running and what keeps themwaking up day after day.
From the laughs and thelessons, the half marathon is
(00:48):
getting in the way.
We're here to share what makesrunning a truly human
experience.
And later in this episode,you'll meet an accomplished
runner who's currently taking aninjury forced timeout.
Doesn't that suck?
But we are going to hear aboutwhat she's doing in the interim
to stay sane.
Maddie, welcome back.
How are you, my friend?
Matty (01:09):
Yeah, good, thanks, Josh.
Um yeah, really well.
Um things are going great.
Uh still keeping up uh myweekly training, so yeah, all
good.
All good.
Good run.
Did you run this morning?
No, I didn't.
I wanted to, but I couldn't.
Joshie (01:25):
So a rare day off.
Matty (01:27):
Yeah, I might run later today, but it might be too hot.
Just wait.
Joshie (01:31):
Yeah, it's not too bad out there.
I ran this morning, as youknow.
Um look, I'll be honest, man,after Melbourne, I'm yeah, still
really struggling to findmotivation to run.
So it was good to get outthere, but I don't know.
As runners we go through thesemoments where we're not
necessarily enjoying things, andthat's okay.
Um, I guess we just need tolisten to our minds and our
bodies and just do what's best.
Matty (01:51):
Definitely.
Joshie (01:52):
You gotta you gotta enjoy it.
You gotta love it.
I think so.
I mean the risk is that you endup resenting it and you know
you're not really being fair toyourself, um, and ultimately
just compromises yourperformance.
Matty (02:04):
Um, exactly.
Yeah, if it's a chore, um, andthat's how I sort of operate, if
if it feels like a chore, umhave a have a little rest.
So you love chores though.
Joshie (02:13):
You said you love doing housework.
You told me once that when youclean the toilet, like you get
your head right up on the that'smy favourite.
Matty (02:23):
That's my favorite.
Joshie (02:24):
Well, you welcome around here any time, mate, to clean
the toilet.
Now, let's get stuck into theunbelievable rundown, and just a
reminder that this is where weshare highlights, mishaps,
little wins, the kind of stuffthat Strava simply can't
capture.
Now, I recently posted a pollabout pre-race nutrition.
Matty (02:41):
Um, do you happen to have the results on here?
Yeah, I do I do, and and quitediverse range of results and
quite interesting.
Um I wouldn't have thought theywent they um would have gone
this way, but uh we had 30% ofpeople um uh have water as a
pre-race uh nutrition, right?
Um 20% electrolytes, 10% gel,okay, um, which I thought would
(03:03):
have been higher, um, and 40%something else.
Um I always have a gel before alongish run, so anything sort
of 12 to 20 plus, I'll have agel prior.
Um yeah, very interesting.
And something else.
What could the something elsebe?
I wonder.
Joshie (03:22):
Uh look, it could be I don't know, peanut butter on
toast.
You swear by that.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh bananas, lollies, coffee.
Um it's a real diverse range ofwhat people I I invited DMs
from listeners and we actuallyhad quite a few, but the one
that made me giggle the most wasfrom sorry, Jeff Marsh, who, by
(03:45):
the way, is okay for me toquote him on this.
He said, and I do quote, I tryto eat and drink enough that he
doesn't bonk or cramp during therace, but not so much that he
shits himself when he gets up.
Matty (03:59):
And he runs very well across um longer distances, so
it obviously works for him.
Joshie (04:04):
Does now look shitting yourself during a race is a
whole other conversation,Maddie, that we'll leave until
there's a much lower risk oflosing listeners.
Now speaking of nutrition, I uhdid realise afterwards that I
might have missed something inthe poll.
Now, how this came up inconversation, I don't know.
But do you remember when youand I were in Melbourne, you
(04:26):
tried to convince me that secondonly to water, that the product
most consumed by humans wasconcrete.
That's right.
Now look, Maddie, you know Ilove you, and you're uh a bit of
a trivia messiah, and I wouldnever doubt the veracity of your
stats, but are you suggestingthat runners are more likely to
reach for limestone beforelime-flavoured gels?
Matty (04:49):
Well, if you're talking Depends here, you can manipulate
any data.
Joshie (04:54):
No, I have just done that, yes.
Matty (04:55):
I I did hear I did hear that, that um the product most
consumed by human beings isyeah, uh, water first and then
concrete.
And when you think about it,like everywhere is concrete.
That's true.
Everywhere.
Joshie (05:10):
You know, because that stayed clearly that stayed with
me after we had thatconversation.
Now funnily enough and I shityou not, after Melbourne
Marathon, you know how when youlook at Strava, you can have a
look at who ran with you at thesame route, same events.
So I was just browsing throughand having a look at other
people's activities from theMelbourne Marathon.
(05:31):
And there was one dude, and bythe way, it was on my mind that
stat that you told me, hisactivity said ate concrete at
30ks, but kept going.
So you may be right after all.
Matty (05:46):
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
Joshie (05:48):
Now, look, if you have something that you'd like to
contribute to the run b uh tothe unbelievable rundown, then
send it our way.
Now, Maddie, I'm going to takepity on you after your epic fail
at Shuemai.
So we're going to park thatsegment for a while with a view
to restoring your confidence.
So let's see how you go today.
(06:09):
We have a different quiz.
Today's is a simple fact orfiction.
Matty (06:15):
Okay.
Joshie (06:16):
So these questions are all about the Melbourne Marathon
Festival, which you know wasearlier in October.
We were both there for theevent, so you should be well
placed to get three out ofthree.
But let's see how you go.
No pressure.
And just to let you know,Maddie has to guess if the bit
of trivia that I'm reading outis fact or fiction.
(06:37):
Feel free to play along athome.
Question number one.
The world record was broken forthe fastest marathon completed
in a suit.
Matty (06:49):
That's that's fact.
That's fact.
I saw him interviewed.
Joshie (06:53):
That is correct.
Now, do you want to have aguess at what his time was?
Matty (06:57):
Yeah, it was.
I went back and I watched, Ithink last week I watched the
Melbourne Marathon and I sawthat guy.
Um, it was two hoursthirty-eight.
Joshie (07:09):
How the hell do you know that?
Well, yeah, close.
Two hours thirty-eight andtwenty seconds, so I can't.
Ah, come on.
Matty (07:18):
You've got to give me that to know that, jeez.
Joshie (07:21):
Far out.
Alright, question number two.
The men's half marathon was wonby Adam Goddard.
Fact or fiction?
Matty (07:33):
Uh fiction?
Joshie (07:35):
That is correct.
Matty (07:37):
He came second, I think, didn't he?
Adam Goddard?
Joshie (07:40):
Not quite.
He actually won the 10k.
Matty (07:43):
Ah, that's right.
Yeah, okay.
Joshie (07:44):
Do you want to have a guess?
Actually, I don't want to giveyou an opportunity to guess
because it's just actually, youknow what?
Have a go.
At what the time?
Yeah, go for glory.
Matty (07:52):
Um one hour, four minutes.
Joshie (07:57):
For the half?
Matty (07:58):
Yeah.
Joshie (07:59):
Oh no, sorry, the 10k is what he won.
Matty (08:01):
Oh, the 10k.
Um, yeah, it was 28 minutes, Ithink.
28 something.
28.40 for I mean, gosh, dude.
Joshie (08:10):
Wow.
Matty (08:11):
Well, who who who watches a six-hour replay of the
Melbourne Marathon during theweek?
Me.
Who has six hours replay?
Joshie (08:19):
Oh, all right.
Question number.
Question number three, and he'son fire.
Two from two.
In winning the women's half,Izzy Bat Doyle narrowly missed
breaking the course record.
Fact or fiction.
Matty (08:34):
It's fact.
Joshie (08:37):
Ha! It's fiction.
Matty (08:38):
Ah, she did break it.
Joshie (08:40):
She did.
And once again, do you want tohave a crack at the time?
So Izzy Bat Doyle.
Matty (08:44):
She actually did break the course record.
One hour twenty-three.
Joshie (08:49):
Much quicker than that.
An hour eight fifty-five, shesaid quicker.
Matty (08:53):
Yeah, yeah, that was quick.
Yeah.
Joshie (08:55):
Now, how did you go at home?
Feel free to let us know.
Today's guest is someone whoselove for running has recently
been cruelled by injury.
She started running in her lateteens, but before long she was
truly tearing up events, winningthe Guzzler 21K in both 2024
(09:16):
and 2025.
But after that success came asetback, a rather complex injury
that's sidelined her and forcedher to rethink her why.
A physio by trade, she'sworking through a process to
rebuild both body and mindset.
She's also our first ever trailrunner on Run Believable with
an honest take on safety,recovery, and finding joy again
(09:41):
after the path gets rocky.
So can we please all welcomeAsh O'Lachlan?
Ash, thanks so much for joiningus.
Thanks, Ash.
Ash (09:50):
It's good to be here.
Joshie (09:52):
Awesome.
Now look, we'd usually kickthings off with a bit of
background about your runningorigin story, but I'm going to
mix things up a little bit.
How bad was your knee when youtackled the sunny coast half
this year?
Ash (10:07):
That's so brutal to ask right off that.
Um it's a bit of a trickyquestion because I've dealt with
knee pain for like since I waslike 12.
So in some ways, I kinda Ioften get to the point where I I
kind of don't notice it.
Like I got really good atrunning through knee pain.
(10:28):
Um so look, it wasn't great.
Like I um stairs were not myfriend um sitting up from a
chair or any kind of lowsurface.
Um, I think straight afterSunny Coast, I think my big
thing was I went to like dip mytoe in the pool, like standing
on my right leg, and I like, oh,it almost I almost crumpled.
(10:51):
So um so leading into it, itdefinitely wasn't great.
But the funny thing is I Iwould rarely feel too much pain
while I was competing, and thatwas one of the reasons I loved
competing.
So I was like, oh, I get to gofor a run without noticing too
much pain because I don't know,adrenaline's a funny thing, so
(11:14):
yeah, yeah.
Joshie (11:18):
What can you actually tell us about the injury?
Uh I mean, you and I sat downand had a quick coffee before
today, and I'll be honest,there's obviously your work as a
physiotherapist, you haveinsights into exactly the nature
of the injury.
I mean, can you sort of help usunderstand a little bit more
about what you're dealing with?
Ash (11:40):
Yeah, so to be honest, half the time I sometimes I tell
people I have a meniscus injurybecause they hear that and
they're like, oh, I know whatthat is, and that's easy, and
then it's done.
Um, but yeah, it's it's it's afunny injury slash injuries.
I've had, like I said, I've hada long, long, long history of
knee pain, um, thanksbasketball.
Um it actually startedpredominantly with my left knee.
(12:00):
I dealt with a like a long-termpatella tendinopathy for a
really, really long time, and Ihadn't quite been able to get on
top of it, and it just kind ofgrumbled along.
Um, and I think what ended uphappening is I was biasing my
right leg so much for so longthat I actually ended up with a
fairly significant um cartilagedefect on that side.
Um it's called a chondropathy.
Matty (12:21):
So both both knees.
Ash (12:23):
Yeah, they're both knees, but like different things, which
is really strange, and they'reaggravated by different things,
which makes rehab really, reallyfun.
Um but yeah, so it's yeah, I'vegot a a full thickness
chondropy um in the cartilagebehind my my kneecap.
Um which anyone knows who knowsa little bit about um tissue
(12:44):
injuries and that kind of thingis is cartilage, is really
poorly vascularized, which meansit doesn't heal well, if at
all.
Um so it's one of thoseannoying injuries where it's
quite possible the the insultitself will never quite heal,
but it's about how much can Icompensate such that I can get
(13:04):
back to running?
Yeah.
Joshie (13:06):
So I'm going to declare my lack of knowledge about
physiotherapy, but when you talkabout poorly vascularized, does
that essentially mean thatthere's not much in the way of
sort of blood flow to helppromote healing?
Ash (13:22):
Yeah, exactly right.
Yeah.
Joshie (13:23):
Okay.
So I didn't realise it wassomething that you've been
dealing with since your youth.
I mean, you started running, Ithink, when you were 17, I think
you told me.
Ash (13:34):
So long distance, like longer distance running.
Like I always grew up doingteam sport and things and
running in some capacity, butyeah.
Matty (13:43):
It's quite ironic though, I think you're a
physiotherapist and you'vegotten the injuries.
Ash (13:49):
I get that all the time.
Joshie (13:53):
I mean, being a physio, I mean, how has your knowledge,
I guess, influenced or shapedyour approach to either training
or rehabilitation?
I mean, do you find yourselfoveranalysing the the injury?
Ash (14:08):
Yeah, yeah, it is a bit like that.
To be honest, it's like um howthey say doctors are the worst
patients, physios are the worstathletes.
Like, I like like I said, I ranthrough injury for a long time,
and I knew that was dumb.
Um, I've got the knowledge, butI don't know, when you're in
that when you're in that runningbubble, um yeah, it it it's
(14:31):
weird stopping running kind ofseems a bit incomprehensible,
even even as someone who has adecent amount of knowledge.
But um yeah, no, I definitelyself-diagnose and things, but um
I also surround myself withpeople who are a lot smarter
than me and a lot better atphysio in general.
So I I have a physio who I seeum who tells me what to do
(14:54):
because I won't do what I tellmyself.
Matty (14:56):
Yeah.
That that's very common withrunners though, that they push
through injury.
And I think it's I don't know,you I I've done it before where
you sort of say, Yeah, I've gotan injury, but it'll be okay if
I if I run this way or I do itthis way, um, which is not the
best option.
Ash (15:14):
It's not, and I think that's the kind of frustrating
thing about my injury.
Like, any injury sucks,obviously, but mine is like I I
can run and I could run, andthat was what like there are
times where I was like, I justwish I had a rolled ankle or
like something that physicallystopped me from running, but
there was a set like rest foryou know so many weeks and then
(15:37):
it's better and then it's gone.
Whereas mine is, you know, Ican run, it'll hurt a little
bit, but I can run, but it'llgradually kind of get worse over
time.
Um, so yeah, it's just and so Idid.
I did run.
Joshie (15:54):
Now you've been on the sidelines from what I can see
since the Sunny Cost.
So we're talking a few monthsnow.
Um and from what I know, you'vebeen absolutely smashing the
cross training now, which isfantastic.
Um, was it easy to flick thatswitch, that mindset, to focus
on something different?
Ash (16:16):
Um, good question.
Yes and no.
Um, I think when you've alreadygot the momentum from
consistently running, it'seasier to like in time-wise and
you know, commitment-wise, it'seasier to transition that over
to something else.
But um it is hard in thatnothing is quite like running,
and it in my experience, it's ittakes more to reach the same
(16:39):
kind of effort that you wouldfor running.
Like, I could be absolutelydestroying myself on the bike.
I'm dripping with sweat, and Ilook at my watch and I'm getting
the heart rate that I would ona you know, easy cruisy run.
Matty (16:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Ash (16:53):
So, yeah, you know.
Matty (16:55):
Would you also say like um you you build a community
within running or you're part ofa community, whether it be park
run, whether it be run clubs,whatever it may be, and then
transitioning, you kind of likeyeah, I think fitness-wise,
transitioning might be easier,but you're leaving that
community um that you've you'vebeen with for so long, which is
(17:17):
very encouraging and very ummotivational, um, those
communities.
Ash (17:22):
Yeah, and that's that's an excellent point, and it's
something that I have reallystruggled with, and I but also
really learnt from because whenI made the decision that no, I'm
gonna commit to a prolongedperiod of running and try to
rebuild, I was terrified that Iwas gonna, I was like, I'm gonna
lose all my friends.
All my friends.
Yeah.
Come on.
Which is so silly.
(17:44):
And I can honestly say I havenever felt more supported than
from when I made that decision.
The amount of my friends whohad like I say running friends,
like, yeah, I met them withrunning, but that doesn't mean
they're just running friends.
Yeah, have reached out to meand said, Hey, let's go for a
walk, let's go for a hike, let'sgo for a coffee.
(18:06):
Um, it's been it's been reallylovely.
So no, anyone who is sitting onthis precipice of injury or
making a decision whether totake some time out and that's on
their mind, I can say, don't besilly.
Your friends are your friendsbecause they like you and not.
Joshie (18:25):
That's right.
Yeah, yeah.
I guess it's one of thosethings that you haven't really
tested until you do take a breakfrom running.
It's kind of like having workfriends.
You don't really know which ofthose work friends will stick as
friends once you finish workingwith them.
And I guess it's the same withwith running.
Um, so I can understand thatanxiety is sort of going into
taking a break.
You would have thought, youknow, are these people truly
(18:49):
sticky friends?
Will I will those thatsupportive side of the running
community be there whilst I'm onthe sidelines?
Um, now I I guess what I amkeen to explore.
I mean, you've certainly beensmashing the cross-training.
Do you feel as though it'senough of a substitute for you
now?
Ash (19:08):
Um, enough of a substitute in terms of like like driving me
or like fulfilling that loveright now.
Joshie (19:15):
I mean, you've you've shown incredible commitment and
dedication to your running, andit's very hard to then switch
that mindset and apply that samekind of discipline to something
that's different, especially ifit's something that you don't
have a natural love for.
Ash (19:32):
Yeah, so obviously, like I I love running, and I will
hopefully always love runningand hopefully be able to do that
again.
Um yeah, it's an interestingpoint, and I think that's one
another kind of empowering thingthat I've noticed um since
taking my break is it's not justrunning that I crave, it's the
it's the challenge that I crave,and like as psychotic as that
(19:56):
sounds, it's doing somethinghard, and you know, it's hard
and you do it anyway.
Um, and the discipline and theroutine of it all, I think I
crave that more than I craverunning itself.
And I again I look like anabsolute psychopath on the bike
sometimes because I'm heart likeheaving and smiling because I'm
(20:19):
like, oh, that's it, I got it.
That's the running feeling.
Joshie (20:22):
Like, oh what you're saying before is the amount that
you have to put in to get thatsame feeling is a lot more so
that uh input that you have toexert.
Ash (20:33):
Yeah, and that's not to say these other disciplines like
cycling and things are areeasier than running.
I'm just not as good at them,and it's a different muscle
group that you're working.
So like my legs have to workharder in a particular position
that they're not used to to getmy hand up, like that kind of
thing.
Matty (20:49):
Running's also it's a process.
Um, it's you know, you youtrain and then you race.
Um, and all that all thattraining goes into that race.
So that whole process is Idon't know, it's it's something
you grab hold of um and go with.
And I think that, yeah, that'smaybe something.
If I went over to somethingelse, that I think I would miss
(21:12):
that as well.
Joshie (21:13):
Yeah, it's actually a good point because I guess with
running, we have a goal, whetherit's an event or a race with
cross-training, unless it'ssomething like a high rocks, for
example, uh it can be a littlebit more difficult to have that
um to have that discipline.
Now, Ash, um let's now go backto the beginning of your running
journey.
You mentioned that you startedrunning in your late teens.
(21:33):
What can you tell us about yourmotivation for lacing up?
Ash (21:37):
Um, like I said, I I always liked running, but more in the
context of um kind of teamsport, grew up playing
basketball, did a little bit oflike track and field and
cross-country in high school,but nothing serious.
Um And if we're being entirelyhonest, like I'd love to say,
oh, I liked running and teamsports, and then it seemed like
the natural progression, but Ithink like a lot of males and
(22:01):
females in this sport and and umtoday, I didn't start for the
right reasons.
Um I grew up, you know, throughmy teens, again, like a lot of
people do, with not a greatrelationship with food or my
body or exercise.
So to be honest, I startedrunning because it was a way to
burn calories.
Um and that's being entirelyhonest.
(22:21):
And like I'd be lying if I saidthat went away completely.
I still have those days whereyou know, you're you're not, you
know, oh, I ate that cake, so Ishould go for a run, which is
not the whole point.
Um but that's been the reallycool thing about running is
slowly it became less about thatand more about, oh, I actually
(22:42):
quite like this, and I feelreally strong doing this.
And that's actually one of thereasons, one of the things that
drew me to trail running is Imean, every female athlete is
amazing, but trail running womenfor the most part, they're
strong and they look amazing andlike sorry, not look amazing
like yeah, no, no, no.
(23:03):
I was like, I want I want bigquads for the first time ever.
I was like, what because if Ihave big quads, I can run up
that mountain.
So like it running in someways, you know, started as not
for the right reasons, thenrunning also helped me to find
the right reasons, if that makessense.
Joshie (23:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Um, and I wonder whether or notwith that sort of challenge of
trail running and climbingmountains, I mean, is there
something about you know the thethe vulnerability of it as
well?
Ash (23:38):
Yeah, yeah, I would definitely say that um it's hard
and it's not a glamorous sport.
And I think that's why running,partly why running friendships
and you know, for me, trailrunning friendships are so you
know, you get pretty close withpeople pretty fast because
you're doing really hard thingstogether.
Matty (23:56):
Yeah, that's right.
Joshie (23:58):
Yeah, totally agree.
As I mentioned at the start,Ash, you're quite an
accomplished trailrunner, andcorrect me if I'm wrong, but you
won the 21k Guzzler in both2024 and earlier this year,
2025.
Uh what can you tell us aboutthose experiences and in
particular backing up this year?
I mean, was there part of youthat was like, I need to defend
(24:20):
that title?
Of course there was.
Ash (24:25):
I'd be lying if I said there wasn't.
Um the first year, the firstyear to this day, like um sorry,
2024 was to this day one of myfavourite ever races.
I went in with it, went in withzero expectations.
I think I was training forSunny Crow's full marathon at
that time.
Um I kind of just went in, giveit a crack.
I hadn't been doing trailrunning for too long.
(24:46):
And the fact that I won wasjust like a cherry on top
because I genuinely just had themost fantastic day um out on
the trails and it was wonderful.
Um But yeah, this year, yeah, II am someone who puts an
immense amount of pressure onmyself.
No one else would have cared ifI placed or any of my family or
friends, but I yeah, there wasa little bit of me that wanted
(25:07):
to come back and and win again.
So um look, I still had fun,but certainly I think there's
you know, you're so focused ondoing well that perhaps a little
bit of the enjoyment goes outof it.
Um so yeah, it was still afantastic experience, but I was
a little bit stressed, and itwas a fairly close race as well.
(25:28):
I think second was on my tailfor most of it, so I was I was
working hard on it.
Joshie (25:32):
You see, that's something that I don't know,
with road races, it's very easyto access published stats and
have a look at timing data andsee where people finish and even
splits, you know, you can seewhether someone was coming
second at the halfway mark andwhether they went on to win.
And so I guess what we don'tknow from those guzzler
experiences is you know, werewere they close races?
(25:54):
Did you come from behind at anypoint?
I mean, uh sometimes it'seasier to be um be the hunter
than hunted as well.
Ash (26:02):
Um yeah, I agree.
If I had a if I had a choiceand if I raced probably a little
bit more smart, I would havehung back behind her a little
bit more and kind of chilledalong, but I don't know, I I
struggle with that.
I'm too competitive.
Um but yeah, you do get chased,which isn't so fun.
Joshie (26:24):
You know, it's interesting.
Um obviously it would have beenfantastic, and on paper it
looks like the same outcome, youknow.
You you won the 21k Guzzler twoyears in a row, but the the
feelings you would have had bothgoing into it and afterwards
sounds like were were completelydifferent.
It sounds like you know, onewas you felt like it was reward
for effort, and the other onewas like, you know, more a sense
(26:44):
of relief that you that you gotthe outcome.
Ash (26:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
Two exact same race butentirely different experiences.
Still love them, and like I hadsome of my friends who came
along to sport this year, whichwas fantastic.
I had a friend doing the 50,and like my community had built
more this year in terms of likeI turn up to trail races now and
I actually know people, andthat's fun in itself.
Joshie (27:08):
Now, look, you've um you've been quite open about
trail safety, and um, you know,especially as a as a female,
there's certain uh things thatyou're going to be more mindful
of than what us uh men are.
I mean, we're we're sort offortunate that we don't have to
consider the same uh set ofcircumstances that that you do
(27:29):
when when you're running.
I mean, what can you tell usabout your experiences um trail
running and in particular um,you know, there were there were
some incidents at Mount Cootha,I think was it either this year
or last year?
Um, I mean, are you happy to Iguess share some insights about
your experiences there?
Ash (27:45):
Yeah, so obviously it's it's a huge, huge topic, and um
one that obviously we can'tcover in in a single podcast.
But um, yeah, women's safety inin running in general and and
not just trail running isobviously something that is
becoming more spoken about.
Um yeah, last year there wasthe thing that brought it more
so to my attention was yeah, theum there was a couple of
(28:06):
attacks at at Mount Kutha.
Um and that really hit home.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, that really hit home for mebecause Mount Kutha was very
much my like, you know, quoteunquote safe trail.
Um well traversed, I know itreally well, I could do it with
my eyes closed, like I'd gothere if I wanted an easy cruisy
um run.
(28:27):
So when the attack ha attackshappened, it was suddenly like,
oh, my safe place has been takenaway, and that was really
disappointing.
Matty (28:36):
That is, yeah, that's horrible.
Yeah.
Ash (28:41):
And what's more, like track ran this um Trail Running
Association of Queensland ran afantastic event not long after
that.
Um, all about women's safety,and it was reclaim the trails.
It was like a largely women-ledrun, but you know, men were
welcome to join, and we did theLap at Kutha and it was
wonderful and empowering andla-di-da.
(29:01):
Um and then the next day I wasat Sandgate and doing what I
always do, which side note allmy friends and family will know
is I'm I'm really bad at goingout late for run too late to
run.
Um, so I'd done like a it wasafter dark, I'd done a run at
Sandgate sitting in my car.
Um, and a guy pulled up next tome, waited for me to get out of
my car, and then because he'dslammed his car door into mine,
(29:23):
waited for me to get out tocheck.
Anyway, long story short, hewas jerking off in his car.
Matty (29:29):
Um no.
Ash (29:30):
Which is horrendous and awful.
And I swore at him and wantedto cry, and then I just got so
angry, and you know, the factthat we'd had this fantastic
event the day before, and I wasfeeling so empowered.
And again, Sandate's anotherplace that was kind of like my
safer place, it's well lit, it'sfairly well traversed.
(29:50):
Yeah, and the fact that someonehad been able to take like in
10 seconds taken that awayinfuriating.
Matty (29:58):
Yeah.
And that's my safe that's oneof my safe places as well.
I run after Dark Dead all thetime.
Um, that's horrible.
I guess.
Joshie (30:07):
The reality is, Maddie, you and I go running there late
at night, not for one secondhaving to stop and think about
our safety.
Yeah.
Which I've crossed paths withyou from time to time running um
I'm sorry um uh late at night.
And you know, you're you'realways smiling, you look very
happy when you run.
But it's masking, I guess, areality of of being a a female
(30:30):
runner running late at night.
Matty (30:31):
Um looking over your shoulder.
Joshie (30:34):
Exactly.
You and I don't have to worryabout that, Maddie.
That's just a r a reality.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um Ash would be like, I Iimagine you hear a a noise or
someone you think is that athreat.
I mean, we we don't have to tostress about that.
Ash (30:48):
And that's it.
I think um we probably lookrelatively relaxed and smiley on
our runs because unfortunatelywe're just used to it and it's
just something that we kind ofdon't think about.
It's that you know, extramoment we take when we're
leaving the house, tellingsomeone where we're going, or
like I always have my live trackon on my on my watch so that
people can see where I am, orand it is, it's that, oh I'm
(31:11):
that those minute decisions I'mnot gonna run, I'm not gonna I'm
gonna run out onto the roadinstead of putting myself
between a car and a fence.
Like yeah, it's all thoseminute decisions that like you
said, it's being more talkedabout that um you know women
have to make that that um youguys might not necessarily
realise.
Joshie (31:30):
Well, you don't see it on you don't see it on Strava,
do you?
I think that's why it'swonderful that you're prepared
to be so open today, Ash,because there's so much that
gets lost in the data.
Um and it's that anxiety toeven just get out there and that
decision-making process thatyou must go through where it's
you know, safety first, runningsecond.
Matty (31:51):
And um I mean you I sorry, I don't think people
realise either that what theincident that happened out there
at Sangate, as you said, tookaway from you your safe place.
People don't think like that,they think of it as an incident,
but it has taken something fromyou.
I think that's really importantto highlight.
Ash (32:11):
It has, yeah.
And I still I still run atSandate and I probably still run
after dark, to be honest.
But I definitely I know exactlywhere it happened, and I know
exactly where I parked, and Ithink about it whenever I go
there.
Um yeah, like I said, it's justthat it's that little piece
that's that's taken, and it'stricky.
It's not as much as I wouldlove for us to click our fingers
(32:31):
and suddenly all the bad peopleare gone and women can run at
night and it's wonderful andgreat.
Um but we can talk about it andwe can make more people aware
of it.
Um and I think that's theimportant thing, at least at the
moment.
Joshie (32:46):
I mean, aside from as men, us being aware of what the
reality is as a female runner, Imean, is there anything that
you think we can we can do?
I know it might be a veryopen-ended, broad question, but
um is there anything that youknow male runners can do?
I mean, I'll give you anexample.
I remember reading somethingmany years ago about a woman
that went through a horrendousexperience over in the States,
(33:09):
and one of her suggestions wasif you're a male running on a
path and you see a female runnerheading towards you, um, cross
the other side of the street.
Or if you're running andthere's a female in front of
you, um, don't approach slowly,just you know, if you're going
quicker, just get past them andthen be on your merry way.
I mean, do you think thatthey're little things that can
sort of help?
Ash (33:30):
Yeah, exactly.
And that's what I mean.
This is it's such a big issue,and you know, the point isn't to
make, you know, for every onebad male runner like male out
there, there's a thousand goodones, and the point isn't to
make you guys feel bad.
Um, but yeah, it is littlethings like that.
It's crossing the road if yousee someone run, like if you see
(33:52):
a female trying not to lingerbehind her, um, either running
or on bike.
I've been followed on bikesbefore.
Um it's sometimes it's just asmile, like a gidae, like you
know, maybe lyric there.
Um it's checking in on yourfemale running friends, like, do
they need someone to run withthem after that?
Because it can be really hardto fit in training.
(34:13):
As someone who works full-time,7:30 to 4, I commute an hour
each day.
You can imagine in winter, it'svirtually impossible to not run
at night.
So it's do you need someone torun, you know, fit in your
running with?
Or um, you know, do you want meto be on your live track so I
can see you like running atnight?
It's it's all those littlethings.
(34:35):
Um, and it's talking about itso that on a wider level other
things can be set in place, youknow, whether that's
infrastructure that um creates asafe place for women to run um
at night or in the dark that'swell lit or etc.
Again, not that that alwaysmeans that there's no danger,
but um things like that.
(34:55):
And it's calling things out,like for the most part, like I
said, guys are really great.
But if you have a mate orsomething that uh says something
inappropriate or calls thatgirl, tell them that to rack
off, like without having thatconversation.
Joshie (35:13):
You know, Ash, I really appreciate you being so open and
transparent in talking aboutwhat must be quite an
uncomfortable topic.
Um, I am happy to shift gearssomewhat.
Look, you've um you've alreadyachieved so much in your running
journey.
What would you say sits atop asyour proudest moment?
Like if you had to say thatthere was something in the
unbelievable hall of fame, whatwould it be?
Ash (35:35):
Oh, that's hard.
Because there's yeah, yeah,there's what you're proud of in
terms of achievements.
Like, yeah, I'm proud ofwinning the races that I've I've
won, but I think it's more thethe interpersonal, the the
personal challenges that are thebiggest.
Um one of the things I'm proudof us of is making the decision
to stop running, which is soundsinsane, but that was one of the
(35:58):
hardest decisions I've evermade is to go, yeah, enough's
enough.
Um, let's let my body heal andtry to build back up again.
And that was really scary.
Um, so that was a big one.
Joshie (36:10):
Definitely, yeah.
It's a big call.
It is a big call to make.
I mean, most of us as runnerswould make uh an uncomfortable
yes call to continue rather thana courageous no.
Yeah.
Um, and especially because ofthe anxiety, uh, like Matt was
saying earlier about community,the the things that get lost,
those other things thatpotentially get lost when you
when you do take a break.
(36:30):
Um uh not what I was expectingas you're proud of.
I think that's fantastic, bythe way, to it wasn't what first
popped to mind, and I was like,oh actually.
Yeah, definitely.
Do you dare share anything thatsort of sits in like a hall of
shame?
Like if it ever had any uh sortof running into where it's like
(36:51):
that was just an epic fail, orwhere you've had to pull the pin
either mid-race, not showing upfor a race, or we've just gone,
that was just a disaster.
Ash (37:02):
I mean, we've all had our training fails and our race
fails and that kind of thing.
I think the most hilarious, andthis was weird because this
actually popped into my head asalmost one of my proudest
moments too, but it's also kindof hilariously bad, was um UTA
in May this year.
I did the 50, and it was myfirst ever Ultra, and I was the
biggest gumby ever.
(37:23):
Like I had no idea what I wasdoing.
I was on the in the you know,first wave amongst all these
sponsored runners, and I wasgoing, what the hell am I doing
here?
Terrified, didn't like didn'tfeel especially well, didn't
take any salt tablets because Iwas like, I've never cramped
before, I'll be fine.
20ks into a 50k run, or my leg,my leg's about to cramp, and
(37:48):
then it just got worse and worseand worse, and I didn't have
any anything to help.
I was like, I'd read somewherethat if you like apparently like
the gagging sensation can helpwith cramps.
I was like running a lot, likeshoving my fingers down my
throat to try and make myselfgag.
It was a mess.
I I at one point was running umat like I don't know, second
(38:12):
half of the race, I was alreadycramping, was looking so and
that's the thing about trailerrunning, you're focusing so hard
on not falling over that youdon't always look up, and I ran
headburst into a cliff overhangand just out.
Thank God there was someonebehind me because I like hit my
head, stumbled because I wasalready cramping, my quad
cramped, so I like stumbled tothe side.
(38:32):
My cliff face, and the guybehind me like grabbed my
shoulders and was like, Youokay?
I was like, oh, a bit woozy,but you know, off we go.
Matty (38:42):
I'll be another 30k, let's go.
Ash (38:46):
It'll be fine.
And it was fine for the mostpart.
I definitely didn't feel greatafter that race, but I finished
it, and that's why um it kind ofgoes in my full shame because I
was gumby and didn't know whatI was doing, but also I pushed
through and and got it done.
Matty (39:00):
And I think you're right, like as you said, us, like
we've all had our failures.
Um I've had plenty of them.
And you can you can sit thereand beat yourself up for dates.
Or one of the things I did witha recent race that that that
didn't go right for me waslooked at it and went, okay,
what can I take from it?
What can I learn?
And I realized I was it wasinexperienced.
(39:21):
Oh you know, I there was somuch I could take from that race
and and add to to future races.
So yeah.
Ash (39:28):
100%.
I was remember sitting on theplane ride home and I was doing
my little race debrief, and itwas, yeah, so much learning.
I was kind of chuckling tomyself at all the things I did
wrong, but I won't do themagain.
Well, I probably will do themagain, but um I'll get better at
them.
Joshie (39:46):
Now look, um Ash, before we finish up, what's on the
horizon for 2026?
And it does running feature atall in your plan.
Ash (39:55):
Yeah, and honestly, that's a really hard question, and um
one that honestly I don't reallyknow the answer to.
Um I think like Matt saidbefore, running is so about
routine, and previously I couldanswer that question, I'd be
like, yep, I'm doing this racenow, then and then this race and
then this race, and you planyour year around running though,
we don't realise it.
Um so for the first time,honestly, I don't know.
(40:17):
Um I I took the commitment totake three months off running.
That could be longer, becausehonestly, like money's still not
great, um, to be entirelyhonest, and that sucks.
But you know, I'd rather takemore time off and come back
better than to come back andstill be not good and also be
(40:39):
unfit.
I'd rather at least have aunfit.
Um, yeah, next year is gonnalook like maybe some travel, um,
keep cross-training, hopefullydo some running races and um see
what happens.
Joshie (40:53):
You know, some people put their intentions out to the
universe and sign up to an eventand just sort of hope that
everything magically comestogether.
And it's probably the easierdecision to make than to go, you
know what, I'm actually notgoing to commit, I'm going to
focus on other pursuits and goodon you for um for recognizing
that that should exist.
I've been tempted.
Ash (41:10):
I've been tempted.
Joshie (41:13):
All those messages come through, either about ballots or
um, you know, uh register onthis date, mark it in your
calendar.
It's it's so tempting, isn'tit?
Ash (41:23):
It is so tempting.
I re I literally got oneyesterday for um UTMB um for the
50k there, which was one I wasreally.
Matty (41:31):
Is that Mont Blanc?
Ash (41:33):
Yeah, I would I I uh um UTA qualified for the 50, so that
was always something else Inever thought I would do, but I
mean we'll see, we'll see.
I'm not saying anything.
We'll see.
Joshie (41:44):
That would be pretty epic though.
That would be amazing.
Not too we are trying to talkabout Yeah, you're like, do it,
do it.
Matty (41:52):
I know you gotta do Gazler, you gotta defend your
title, and that's it.
I'll see you at other races.
Ash (42:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's it.
There will always be moreraces, and that's the cool thing
about running.
We're seeing people like yourlast guest, like um it was Mark,
wasn't it?
Yep.
Hey, like, I've got so muchtime, you know.
Like, we can run the some ofthe best run endurance runners
ever are in their you know, 30s,40s, 50s.
(42:22):
We got time.
Joshie (42:23):
Mark's Mark's 67, I mean, it sort of gives a lot of
I know you wouldn't think it.
Um and you're quite young, Ash.
I mean, obviously you've got uha long running journey ahead of
you.
Um and look, before we finishup, uh, is there any one or any
organization you you want tosort of shout out?
I mean, you you've mentionedthat you've done a lot of uh a
lot of work in the in the publichealth space.
Ash (42:45):
Um Yeah, yeah, it's another big question.
There's so many fantasticorganizations and things out
there.
Um what wasn't mentioned um isthat I actually at the moment
work in pediatric physio.
Um so I work with all thelittle humans, um, and as
unrelated as it probably is tothis whole conversation, but the
um I do see firsthand the goodwork that people at the
(43:06):
Starlight Foundation do.
So if you're ever wonderingwhere to pop some of your money,
um, they're a fantastic one.
Um they do really great workwith all the sick little kiddos.
Um, so always willing to givethem a shout.
Matty (43:20):
Yeah, that's good.
That's awesome.
Joshie (43:22):
Ash, thanks so much for joining us today.
You're truly an inspiration tothe running community, and we've
had an absolute blast speakingwith you today.
Thank you so much.
Ash (43:31):
Oh, it's been great, guys.
Thanks.
Matty (43:32):
Yeah, thanks, Ash.
Been really good.
Joshie (43:35):
Well, don't know about you, Maddie, but I'm truly blown
away by Ash's story and herhonesty, her messages around
safety, um, and gosh, the thethings that we take for granted
as men.
Matty (43:47):
I think it, you know, it covered it covered everything.
It covered success withinrunning, it re um it covered
injury, it covered having abreak and transitioning, but
then most importantly, it gotthe word out there in terms of
um uh women's safety withinrunning, um, which um I learned
a lot from that, and I thinkit's imperative that that that
(44:07):
improves.
Joshie (44:08):
Yeah.
And also good on her for havingthe courage to take a break
from running.
Do you reckon you could ever dothat, Matt?
Matty (44:15):
No, mate, never.
Never.
Joshie (44:21):
Uh look, um well, that's it for today.
If you've got a Run Believablestory of your own, we'd like to
hear it.
And if you're interested inbeing a guest on the show, then
hit us up.
Finally, this podcast relies onyour continued support.
So if you take the time tofollow, rate, and share this
podcast with your running mates,we'd really appreciate it.
(44:42):
And we'll see you at the nextRun Believable Adventure.
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