Can supplements support sobriety? Or help you drink less?
Mike Hardenbrook—founder of Cloud 9, author, and host of the Alcohol Reset podcast—joins Running Free to unpack the role supplements can play in recovery and alcohol use disorder. From amino acids and gut health to dopamine support and cravings, this conversation explores a growing area of interest: nutritional support for the sober and sober-curious.
We discuss:
Why brain chemistry matters in addiction
Common deficiencies in early sobriety
Natural supplements for dopamine, serotonin, and GABA
How Cloud 9 is helping bridge the gap in recovery support
Mike’s personal journey through entrepreneurship, anxiety, and alcohol
Whether you’re alcohol-free or just exploring moderation, this episode offers tools and insights to help you stay strong.
- Learn more about Mike’s work at https://www.cloud9supplements.com
- Check out Mike's Alcohol Reset podcast: The Alcohol Reset by Cloud9
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SPONSORS
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EPISODES YOU MIGHT ENJOY
- Are Today’s Kids More Addicted Than Ever? | Chris Herren, NBA Star & Recovery Advocate: https://spoti.fi/3AZ8f0P
- How to Eat to Drink Less Alcohol | Dr. Brooke Scheller: https://spoti.fi/JAPP9g3
- Social Media Addiction - 5 Statistics That Should SCARE You: https://spoti.fi/ygZw3lZ
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Hosted by USMC veteran and health coach Jesse Carrajat, Running Free explores the habits, tools, and insights that build strength—inside and out. Each week features practical conversations with experts in training, medicine, psychology, nutrition, supplements, and more.
Our goal is simple: to help you live stronger, longer, and with greater purpose.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Your drinking is not who you areis a behavior.
It's not an identity unless likegrabbing onto a label like I'm
an alcoholic is actually servingyou.
Don't be forced into that box totry and define that because the
labels not going to get you there.
That the the mindset and the focus and the path to get there
is is what I believe is more important.
(00:39):
Well, hey everybody, welcome to Running Free.
I'm your host, Jesse Carajat. Got a special guest here.
Long time coming, Mike Hardenbrook.
How you doing, Mike? Hey Justy, thanks for having me.
Yeah, it's, it's a pleasure to have you.
I was trying to think back. So I was a guest on your show
with with Sunnyside and I was trying to look back at how long
ago that was. Do you know how longer that was?
(01:01):
Man, I feel like it's got to be close to a year.
It it was. It was.
It was about a year and and I'm looking at you and I'm like.
I remember I did it in a hotel room.
That's all. Because, you know, we travel
around, we're nomadic, and I just sort of remember having so
many problems trying to find a place that didn't have a bed in
the background. And now you are in your home in
Colorado, right? That's right, our new home in
(01:23):
Colorado in north Denver, S Boulder, whatever you want to
say, Broomfield area, so. You got a lot of coals in the
fire. As they say, my my labels for
you just from knowing you and look, looking you up, right,
entrepreneur, author, content creator, that's what I'm calling
you and fitness and mental health advocate.
The mission that you find yourself investing a lot of your
(01:45):
energy in specifically is aroundhelping people overcome alcohol
use disorder. Your new company, supplement
Company Cloud 9, has a lot of awesome supplements that do
that, but can you just share a little bit about why that
particular mission is important to you?
That mission is, is really important to me because of all
the struggles that I went through.
(02:06):
And so I, you know, it, the way that that all started was I
started writing for myself in a journal and that actually ended
up becoming a book. And I, I never planned on
publishing it, but about halfwaythrough writing this thing long
handed, just to explore myself and what happened and what
changed, I thought, there has tobe somebody else just like me.
(02:29):
That is exactly where I was before.
And if I can give them a shortcut and a higher likelihood
of success, then I then I owe itto that one person to finish
this book, which then continued on to the other work that I'm
doing today. And it's always about just
there's that one person out there that was maybe not like me
(02:50):
in any sense from the outside looking in, but had the same
struggles. Yeah.
How would you describe those struggles that you had with
alcohol? It was stuck in a cycle.
It was wake up, you know, from all appearances, from the
outside looking in. I had everything together, and
in many ways I did. But I had this one aspect of my
(03:11):
life that affected many others, but I didn't have it under
control, you know, like I went through college doing like we
all many of us do, drinking likea college student.
Then I got into adulthood and I started thinking, well, I still
kind of want to be that fun guy.And the only way since I wasn't
going out, I was like, well, I can still go buy something to
drink and, and still feel like maybe I'm doing something in
(03:33):
that way, which then turned off.It turned into, well, this is
really, I'm working all these entrepreneurial hours and I'm
making all these mistakes because I'm young and I'm, I'm
burning out, right? And the only way that I could
say time to shut off was by having opening that bottle of
wine. And at first it was just, you
know, a couple times a week. Then it turned into every single
(03:54):
night. And then as your tolerance goes,
my tolerance, you can drink more.
And then all of a sudden when I realized that like, Hey, this is
not serving me. Look at there's so much
cognitive dissonance. Like nothing aligns up to my
values right now. Like I'm into fitness, I'm
trying to make build these $1,000,000 businesses.
I'm into my family. You know, I eat right, I sauna,
(04:16):
I cold plunge. Even before everybody was
posting on Instagram about it and, you know, doing breath
work, all these things. But this one thing didn't line
up. And I felt so misaligned with my
values. I felt inauthentic and I felt
like I was hiding something and when I tried to step out of
that, I realized like, oh man, Igot AI have an issue here
because it's really hard. Like I would go a couple days
(04:39):
and then all of a sudden I'm back.
You know, on my sleep sucks whenI try and stop.
So I just go back so that I can actually sleep and oh, of
course, we want to go out on theweekend.
I don't want to be a downer or whatever the, the excuse was or
the reason. And, and then I try to make it
through 30 days and I, I did that a couple times.
I didn't do it a lot and it, it was definitely very difficult,
(05:02):
but through complete accident, Ikind of found my way out of
that. And there were a couple
combination things that we can talk about there.
But eventually I was able to getout of that nightly wine routine
and never go back. And that's been about what was
the 2016? 2016 good for you, man.
(05:24):
Yeah, I it's interesting to hearyou say that because I relate
with all of it. And when I've what how I've
learned to describe my relationship with drinking is
that there's been seasons and inthe the first season of my
drinking, unfortunately for me, probably like 14 years old to,
you know, the early 20s, right. It was using alcohol to amplify
experiences, right? We all know it pre gaming at a
(05:47):
concert. How about that, right?
And that's just one example. Whatever it is, college,
etcetera. But then there was this lull
where I wouldn't say I had it under control, but it was in
control compared to other parts of my life, right?
But then where it started to ramp up again and is the real
the second season when instead of using it for social events,
amplifying experiences, I started very intentionally using
(06:10):
it to turn off negative emotions, ruminating, stress,
overwhelm, etcetera. And I found that if I just
reflect on those two seasons, the one that was worse was when
I was using it as, call it self medication, right?
And that's essentially what you described.
But I find it interesting. I think that's a common pattern
for people, especially as they move into corporate life,
(06:33):
entrepreneurial life, and reallywhat's underneath that, Lots and
lots of responsibility and deadlines.
And then when you layer over that family, and I know you're a
married man, you have multiple kids, your margin just is
eviscerated. And then I found that because
alcohol is and can be so effective at turning down the
noise, you turn to it more and more.
(06:55):
It's snowballs. You got yourself a pretty nasty
habit. Yes, very much so.
And you know, I'll tack on to what you said there.
There's the cycle that this repeats and I'm sure it's
different for everybody, but I think some people could probably
relate to this in that, OK, you wake up, you have regret all
tonight's the night. Like I'm not doing this shit
(07:16):
anymore. And so for me, I get, it's
almost like I wanted to punish myself.
So I would get up, try to sweat this out, like go for a jog,
probably hit my gym a little bitlater, trying to eat right, do a
green shake, whatever I could toget myself back right, get work,
do my responsibilities, just push through it.
And by the afternoon or late evening, I'd start to feel
(07:41):
better, start to feel more myself.
And I'd start to, and it was such a tough day.
And I think to myself, you know what, it's been a tough day.
What reward myself exactly? And that cycle literally
repeated for over a decade, literally repeated for over a
decade. And it's, it's tough.
It's really tough. And there are a few things that
(08:02):
I can identify. We can talk about what changed,
what interrupted that and what didn't work.
And I can tell you what didn't work is that I would just make a
promise and just hope and wish and, and rely on my own strength
because I was so strong in otherareas that I thought, well, if I
can push through these things and think my way out of it, why
can't I do that? But the crazy thing is, is that
I just kept doing it and doing, trying to do the same thing, you
(08:24):
know, like I, I tonight will be different.
And then it's like Groundhog Day.
Yeah, yeah. You use the word misalignment
earlier. I'm going to double click on
that real quick. And then I, I do want to learn
all about how you eventually broke the cycle.
But when when I hear misalignment, what, what it
reminds me of is, you know, at atime where I was really
(08:45):
successful in my career, if you just looked at a picture of me
with my family and learned a little about me, you'd think
like, oh, that guy's got it under control, right.
And I can remember times when, you know, I'd I'd put on my, I
like to call like my, you know, my clown suit go to work, like
with my costume, my work costume.
And I'd be standing up in front of dozens of people giving
these, if I'm being not humble, like really good presentations
(09:07):
and people would, you know, hit me up on the side and say,
Jesse, like, dude, you're reallygood at this, like, etcetera.
I get all this affirmation in that realm.
And then I go to church with my family and just put on, you
know, everything's got together.And then there be times when I'm
like sitting up at night drunk at 11:30 watching some stupid
thing on YouTube, and I would feel like an imposter.
(09:28):
I felt like a fraud. I felt like I was putting on
this performance and all these other areas in my life, but in
like the real private moments, Iwas drinking alcohol because I
just couldn't kind of want to use negative language, right.
But I just couldn't cope with all the pressure, waking up
hungover, grumpy to my kids. And I just started to grow this
like fraudulent feeling about myself.
(09:49):
Yes, and and the whole thing waslike, how do I how do I just
learn how to cope with life? Maybe that means do less things
and focus less on certain things, but that fraudulent
feeling just ate away and ate away and ate away to the point
where there was shame. And that's, that's an important
word, you know, shame. And I don't think people talk
about the shame part of it enough, honestly.
(10:11):
Absolutely. And you know, one point to where
you're saying that comes up, it's a little bit off topic, but
not really that we're talking about.
And that is like, like you, you know, all appearances outside it
look good, you're fit and all these things.
Same with me now. I don't want to like disconnect
from some people, but the peoplethat you that the things that
you see out there, like the transformation, the side by side
(10:33):
photos, that's amazing. But there are so many people
that you could look those side by side photos and you really
wouldn't see a massive physical difference.
And I think that gets a lot of people stuck in a in a couple
ways. Number one is they might look at
themselves and then compared to somebody else and say, well, it
(10:54):
must not be that big of a problem for me.
I already knew it was a problem.I didn't need convincing of
that. But but also it'll you look at
people also that you model after, like maybe you go to a
party and you're like, why does you know Johnny over there?
He'd like he, he can have that drink in his hand.
He's got it together. Why can't I be like that?
Well, you don't know if Johnny'sgoing to go home and and slam a
(11:16):
bottle of Johnny Walker, you know, and you would never know
by looking at him. So I think like comparison or
perceived what a what a problem would look like.
I think people need to like, if they have that, take that out of
their head. Yeah, don't judge a book by the
cover. And the cover is what you see
Johnny at the party doing and when he goes home they like he's
(11:37):
could be a completely different person, but.
I could, I could have a drink and be totally like chill in
social situations and then I'd like not have that capacity for
control and at home. Yeah.
And when you were, I'll just usethis phrase, but like when you
were in the depths of your drinking, maybe when you, you
know, had that cycle happen overand over your decade.
And was it was the problem, if you will, was it your drinking
(12:01):
frequency? Was it the intensity, like binge
drinking, or was it intermittently a combination of
both? You know, I'd probably say it
was pretty regular and it was pretty much the same amount that
mounted. So I have, I never drank during
the day, I never drank in the morning.
I always got my stuff done. And I generally, yeah, I'd say
binge drink. I drank wine in the evening.
(12:23):
I could easily Polish off bottleand a half of wine very fast,
sometimes 2 and sometimes less. Of course.
And and there were of course like when I had early
responsibilities, you know, those days were different.
But by and large I was my own boss.
So I had very little, the only Ihad very little accountability
(12:46):
to somebody else. My only I was accountable to
myself and I let myself down a lot.
Look one in ten Americans today.Struggle with alcohol use
disorder? And I was one of them.
Did you know that there is a safe science backed daily pill
that you can take to drink less or even quit?
Alcohol for good. It's called naltrexone, a doctor
(13:07):
prescribed medication that you get online and our sponsor or
health is the nation's leading provider of naltrexone to date
or has helped over 35,000 peoplefind freedom from alcohol and
I'm proudly one of them. To get started, text Strength to
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(13:30):
and get started on your journey to finally find freedom from
alcohol. So sounds like for about a
decade you're doing this. Rinse, repeat, right?
I shouldn't have done that. I'm going to do better.
I'm going to use grit and willpower, but then finally
something stuck. What worked for you?
How'd you do it? How'd you break the cycle?
(13:50):
Yeah, so the sequence went a little bit like this.
So I I'm was big in a mountain biking and at this time I was
actually trying to make adjustments on my own.
And one of the things I did was commit to like, I'm going to
compete in mountain biking, I'm going to get good to it.
And there were groups that met early.
And so I started saying, I'm going to be there at 6:00 AM on
a Saturday, right? And so I, that was with the
(14:13):
first step. And then one of the people that
I mountain biked with was a friend of mine who actually
happened to be my naturopathic Dr. And he also worked in a
substance abuse program as a consultant on the, the
medication treatments and supplementation.
And he was like, well, listen, if you're going to take a break,
there are things that you can dothat can help you support your
(14:34):
body. It'll recover faster.
It's going to make you make you less stressed and sleep better
because sleep was always a big issue when I'd stop.
So he gave me those supplements.So I took those and I went off
on my 30 day quest and I actually got there.
And so I got to the 30 days and normally I'd go right, you know,
OK, I made it. You know, things should be
different. I read the habit books on, you
(14:55):
know, 30 days and you can changethe astronauts.
You know, we're able to do conclave glasses upside down and
took them 30 days to adjust, butit never worked, right.
And so I remember pumping gas ata gas station, just sitting
there with my own thoughts. My wife was in the car and I
thought, why don't I go to 60 days?
That was my 30 day thing, you know, and I, I leaned in the
(15:17):
window and I said, Hey, I'm going to go 60 days.
She's like, do it. And then so I did.
And the that second sixty, that 2nd 30 days was easier, right?
And so I got to the 60 days and I said, huh, I'm going to go 90
days. So I went 90 days.
And that was even easier than the 6060 day mark.
(15:39):
I went just short of a year. I, I didn't count days or
anything beyond the 90. I sort of knew, you know,
generally what it was, but I wasjust doing really good.
My new habits were on autopilot.My nightly drinking wasn't
there. And, and that's sort of like
after a while and everything, like everything started to flow
to me like like abundance, you know, I've always been a
(16:00):
believer in metaphysical things,but this was just so obvious.
Like I got, all of a sudden I was, got a new position, was
paid more than I've ever been paid.
I just felt like everything was going my way.
And it just seems like no coincidence.
And that's when I started thinking, you know what, what
(16:21):
I'm really fascinated to know, Like, why did I struggle for 10
years and all of a sudden, like here I am.
And the big reason I wanted to answer that was because I felt
so alone at the time of change. I didn't mention, you know, I
did all the typical things. Google, am I an alcoholic quiz?
(16:42):
You know, I explored even going to meeting and I just like
something about admitting that Iwas powerless, something about
like it just it wasn't for me. I mean, I think it's amazing.
It works for people. It wasn't for me.
And that's just what how I saw it.
And at that time, this whole mindful drinking and soberish
(17:04):
movement and sober curiosity, like that was the only people
that talked about taking breaks were people that were seen as
probably having a problem or alcoholic.
And so I felt at that time like,OK, I didn't need that program.
Something worked for me. What was it?
What changed? And that's really what kind of
led to the book, which then led to me working with Sunnyside,
(17:27):
who does mindful drinking as a software company and, and doing
that podcast and they're writinganother book and doing some
mindful drinking courses. And then now with the supplement
company, which was, as you probably can tell as part of
that story. I have always thought, and
especially realized since I doveinto this podcast and started
talking to awesome people like you, I've always thought that
(17:49):
supplements have been drastically overlooked in the
recovery journey. To me, it makes no sense that
we're so quick to take supplements or vitamins and
minerals and medication for anything and everything.
It's including mental health, right?
But when people are embarking onthis, what can be a difficult
journey of ups and downs to start removing something like
(18:11):
alcohol. I just think there's not enough
awareness around the different supplements that you can take
that can help with that journey.Of course it is going to take
effort and time, but if you can take some supplements that are
good for you, no side effects and just kind of aid in that
journey. I mean, why not do it?
And I love that you've started asupplement company as part of
your story because who better todo it than you?
(18:33):
Can you talk about however you want to start, but some science
behind it. But what are some supplements
that you've experimented with ormaybe you know you're offering
now and if you if you're able tolike and why do they work for
lack of better question. Yeah, well, first of all,
(18:53):
alcohol pretty much messes with every part of your system, like
your entire your brain, your nervous system and everything.
And because it depletes things and almost like 90% of drinkers,
it depletes things like B vitamins, which doesn't sound
terrible. You're like B vitamins, big
deal. But like it is a big deal to
your mood, to your to your stress levels.
(19:15):
It depletes magnesium, amino acids, it messes up with your
gut, glutathione, all these things.
You know, it's going to mess with dopamine, GABA, cortisol,
which are all going to drive stress and like difficulty with
mood regulations and cravings, which all are going to drive
behaviors, right? And so they're all linked to
(19:36):
these things. So if you can take things that
can counter is a counter effect to what alcohol is doing to your
body is going to lessen the impact, which then drive the
repeat behaviors. And so that's really the, the
approach is to replenish, regulate and rebuild and it
starts with supplementation, food, sleep and regulating your
(20:00):
stress because if you can get those under management, like I
said, you're going to have a higher likelihood of success.
So that's really the approach that we took now.
There's also another really interesting supplement and I
mean we can talk about that, butlike B vitamin at its baseline,
we use one called benfotyamine and the thing about that is that
(20:22):
it's bioavailable. Most of the B vitamins that you
would get like AB1 inside of like Walgreens, for example, is
just going to go down the toilet, so to speak with your
money. And so like supplementation is
great. I think just finding a good
source for the supplementation is also like just as important
(20:42):
as figuring out which ones you're going to use.
Now there's a really interestingone called kudzu and kudzu is,
has been used in Chinese medicine for thousands of years
and it's actually been clinically studied.
There's been about 3 pretty wellknown ones where varied, varied
groups, but most of them have a pretty serious drinking problem
(21:02):
and they just took the kudzu andthey reported somewhere between
30 and 57% reduction in the amount they drink.
So if you've ever heard about something like naltrexone, it's
sort of like a not a natural naltrexone in that it lowers
your in a different totally different way in the brain.
(21:23):
It doesn't actually block the euphoric effects, it just the
outcome is that you drink less. So that's another approach that
we're taking to then aid people because some people might want
to taper off or some people might not want to quit, but they
want to drink less. Look, life can be hard and
stressful sometimes, we all knowthat.
But when it comes to supplements, why is it that
nobody talks about stress and resilience?
(21:45):
For me, I take the Adaptogen stack from Momentous
Supplements. It's a daily blend of
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(22:09):
quality. Head to livemomentous.com and
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I think it's awesome. Switching gears a second labels,
(22:32):
OK, kind of a kind of a pivot here.
You mentioned some of them earlier, sober, sober, curious,
mindful drinking, moderate drinking, there's there's so
many out there and then there's Gray area.
Can you just talk a? Little bit about why.
Labels are important. I can talk about why I think
they're not. Important.
(22:52):
Better. Better yet, why are they not
important, Mike? Because I think that people are
actually looking. First of all, your drinking is
not your who you are is a behavior.
It's not an identity. And you don't have to unless it
serves you attached to an identity or a label around your
behavior. You know, like, so that that's
(23:13):
my take is unless it's serving you, unless like grabbing onto a
label like I'm an alcoholic is actually serving you, Don't be
forced into that box to try and define that.
Like, do I fit in that category?Instead, I think you should
focus your effort on like, what could I do today or what would
my life look like if I could change it to exactly how I want
(23:34):
it to be? And what are the steps that I
can get there? Because the labels not going to
get you there. That the the mindset and the
focus and the path to get there is is what I believe is more
important. Do you, do you have like if, if
I were to ask you, how would youdescribe your drinking?
Like where are you today? Do you, do you have a label or
(23:56):
sentence or you just kind of like, no, but what do you mean?
The funniest thing is, is that Ireally don't even know how to
define it, nor do I like to, to put a label or define anything
because a label, like I said, islike is an identity.
And I think that there's a senseof permanence there.
For me, my goals in life, whether it be with my career,
(24:16):
whether it be with my fitness orconstantly moving, they're
always changing. And there are times in my life
where I'm going through a phase where I will not have a single
drink at all. Six, like for example, I didn't
have anything for six months. We went to Spain.
I wanted to have some wine on the weekends.
We're back from Spain. I don't have I don't have
(24:36):
anything to drink. Now what?
What do I call myself? I don't know.
I like. You.
Know like I don't know do I am IA mindful drinker where I count
my drinks? No, I don't do that.
Am I mindful? Like am I sober?
No, I'm not that either. Who cares?
No, hey, man, I like how you putthat it like when you have a
label, it's just the permanence of it and it kind of attaches to
(25:00):
you and it follows you around. And, you know, alcohol gets all
of these labels. But I mean, alcohol is just one
habit that can wreak havoc, right?
I mean, there's so many other things.
I think what's what? What's the label?
For you. Consume too much social media?
What's the label for? That because.
That's distracting us, that's wasting time, that's taking us
away, that's killing our focus and.
(25:20):
Eating junk food or doing all these other things that or fast
food or, you know, like, but I will say, you know, there's not
a label. But I will say, like I
mentioned, the mindful drinking,I am definitely mindful of how I
was and, and where I never want to be again.
And I have never gone back to that.
And that was part of that. The reason people might say,
(25:41):
why'd you take a year off and then if you're doing so great,
why'd you have any? Because I didn't want a lifetime
of wondering like, is this this fear of this taboo that I can
never go there. And if I touch it, like my life
will fall apart. And so with it, with an
experimental approach like I, which I think is the most
beneficial to anybody's, to approach it with an experiment,
(26:03):
I said, let me see what happens.Well, guess what?
I didn't go back to drinking every night and it wasn't a
thing. And I, I proved to myself that
I, I can't trust myself And, andto me that was important.
I did sweet. We covered a lot.
We covered habits, journaling. I promise you I'll try it.
You can text me to follow up with me.
Labels, mindset, fitness. I feel like we hit on a lot of
things, but is there anything oris there a thing that you would
(26:27):
share with somebody that maybe is considering making a change
in their life? And so I have a lot of
literature on this, but I've been playing with the new thing
that I called the reset. And so I'm going to run through
it for the first time here with you.
That's good. All right.
The first one is R, which it stands for.
Run it as an experiment. This really, I think if you take
(26:50):
an experiment mindset that it takes the pressure off,
everybody's like, I don't want to quit drinking, but I really
would like to take a break. We'll run it as an experiment,
like take 30 days off, take 90 days off.
And if it doesn't work for you, just go right back to where you
were. Like see what you learn.
Like you are not committing to like forever anything.
So run it like an experiment. Next would be this is an
(27:13):
impactful exercise. So E is envision where you're
headed. So I want you.
I think it's you take a time machine and you sit in your head
and you say, if I changed my drinking the way I want it to be
right now, think of what would happen in one year, then five
years. Maybe you're doing mountain bike
races like I said, or maybe in 10 years, maybe like you're
(27:37):
making more money than you ever did.
You have the best relationship. You know your family is united,
you have your spiritual, all these things.
Whatever is important to you now, do it for the other way.
If you if nothing changed about your drinking or it got worse,
what would your what in a year would that look like?
You know, how's your job in fiveyears?
How's your health in 10 years? Are you maybe having hard
(27:58):
conversations with your doctor and maybe are, you know, is
everybody in your family still united?
Like think about like the worst case scenario that you do not
want to happen and keep both those images as motivators to
either don't do something or to stick with something.
Next would be S. So start with just one small
(28:18):
step and it doesn't have to be like tomorrow I'm quitting
drinking. Why don't you just like say
tomorrow I'm going to start drinking an hour later so that I
don't drink as much as I normally do.
Or maybe like I always drink a six pack, maybe just drink 5
that night. Like whatever small step that
you think is manageable and something they can get you
(28:40):
started because you really just want these small wins.
Try that and running it like an experiment.
If it doesn't work, you know, look back and be like, well, if
it didn't work, what can I do tochange that and and try it
again. Next would be E equip yourself
for urges. So you need to pre plan when
urges come up. Like I'm going to break my
(29:00):
commitment. I'm going to have that 6 beer,
whatever it is like, but you know, you need to have things
like OK, I'm usually usually come home from work and go
straight to the fridge and grab a beer.
Well, come home and go for a walk.
Come home and put an awesome TV show that always makes you laugh
like. How about don't don't have the
(29:22):
beers? Don't have the beers in the
fridge? Don't have the beers in the
fridge. You need to plan ahead.
Like don't. Don't rely on your tired mind
that's also going through of mini withdraw because it's
pushing like all the different chemicals in your body to seek
relief and pleasure, which also lends itself to equip yourself
(29:42):
with supplements and just be ready for them because they will
come. And then the final one I have is
treat slip UPS as data because everybody tends to wake up and
beat themselves up. And that shame that you talked
about. And you need to stop doing that
because #1 it feels terrible foryourself, but then also it has
(30:05):
no result. And so one of the ways that I
stop shame is once I feel the shame and it's coming on, I
asked myself, is this serving meright now?
Because if it's not serving you,which it isn't, then you need to
stop those thoughts and instead look at it as an opportunity.
Like, thank you, I'm awake today.
I'm going to try again tomorrow or today and I'm going to look
(30:29):
back at these data points of like, what can I do different
today so that I can probably runthis experiment and maybe have
success tonight or tomorrow, whenever it is I love.
It you heard it first on runningfree, run it.
Envision it small steps, equip yourself and treat slip UPS like
data to get that right. That's right.
I love it. Reset, reset everybody.
(30:51):
That's awesome, man. I love it.
Hey, look, dude, this is this has been great.
It's been absolutely phenomenal.I wish you absolutely the best
with Cloud 9. I think it's an amazing company.
I'm going to put the link in this episode description.
I'm probably going to put reset down in the episode description
too, and I'll link to all the places, man.
But this was an absolutely phenomenal conversation.
I really appreciate you. Well, thank you.
And in the traditional reset, like if anybody wants to use the
(31:13):
code reset, I'll toss in 20% offif they want to go check out so.
I like it. Awesome, man.
We'll have to get our families together up here in the
beautiful state of Colorado. Oh yeah, we're doing it for
sure. Let's.
Do it. Mike Hardenbrook, everybody.
All right everybody, that's the show.
Folks. Thank you so much for tuning
into this podcast and spending some time with us today.
(31:35):
We've got a favor to ask. If you enjoyed the show, would
you please consider subscribing to the show and even leaving a
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(31:55):
for regular tips and motivation around mental health, addiction,
and so much more. Know that your support fuels our
brand and is greatly appreciated.
So until next time, stay strong and live deep.
Your drinking is not who you areis a behavior.
It's not an identity unless likegrabbing onto a label like I'm
an alcoholic is actually servingyou.
Don't be forced into that box totry and define that because the
labels not going to get you there.
That the the mindset and the focus and the path to get there
is is what I believe is more important.
(00:39):
Well, hey everybody, welcome to Running Free.
I'm your host, Jesse Carajat. Got a special guest here.
Long time coming, Mike Hardenbrook.
How you doing, Mike? Hey Justy, thanks for having me.
Yeah, it's, it's a pleasure to have you.
I was trying to think back. So I was a guest on your show
with with Sunnyside and I was trying to look back at how long
ago that was. Do you know how longer that was?
(01:01):
Man, I feel like it's got to be close to a year.
It it was. It was.
It was about a year and and I'm looking at you and I'm like.
I remember I did it in a hotel room.
That's all. Because, you know, we travel
around, we're nomadic, and I just sort of remember having so
many problems trying to find a place that didn't have a bed in
the background. And now you are in your home in
Colorado, right? That's right, our new home in
(01:23):
Colorado in north Denver, S Boulder, whatever you want to
say, Broomfield area, so. You got a lot of coals in the
fire. As they say, my my labels for
you just from knowing you and look, looking you up, right,
entrepreneur, author, content creator, that's what I'm calling
you and fitness and mental health advocate.
The mission that you find yourself investing a lot of your
(01:45):
energy in specifically is aroundhelping people overcome alcohol
use disorder. Your new company, supplement
Company Cloud 9, has a lot of awesome supplements that do
that, but can you just share a little bit about why that
particular mission is important to you?
That mission is, is really important to me because of all
the struggles that I went through.
(02:06):
And so I, you know, it, the way that that all started was I
started writing for myself in a journal and that actually ended
up becoming a book. And I, I never planned on
publishing it, but about halfwaythrough writing this thing long
handed, just to explore myself and what happened and what
changed, I thought, there has tobe somebody else just like me.
(02:29):
That is exactly where I was before.
And if I can give them a shortcut and a higher likelihood
of success, then I then I owe itto that one person to finish
this book, which then continued on to the other work that I'm
doing today. And it's always about just
there's that one person out there that was maybe not like me
(02:50):
in any sense from the outside looking in, but had the same
struggles. Yeah.
How would you describe those struggles that you had with
alcohol? It was stuck in a cycle.
It was wake up, you know, from all appearances, from the
outside looking in. I had everything together, and
in many ways I did. But I had this one aspect of my
(03:11):
life that affected many others, but I didn't have it under
control, you know, like I went through college doing like we
all many of us do, drinking likea college student.
Then I got into adulthood and I started thinking, well, I still
kind of want to be that fun guy.And the only way since I wasn't
going out, I was like, well, I can still go buy something to
drink and, and still feel like maybe I'm doing something in
(03:33):
that way, which then turned off.It turned into, well, this is
really, I'm working all these entrepreneurial hours and I'm
making all these mistakes because I'm young and I'm, I'm
burning out, right? And the only way that I could
say time to shut off was by having opening that bottle of
wine. And at first it was just, you
know, a couple times a week. Then it turned into every single
(03:54):
night. And then as your tolerance goes,
my tolerance, you can drink more.
And then all of a sudden when I realized that like, Hey, this is
not serving me. Look at there's so much
cognitive dissonance. Like nothing aligns up to my
values right now. Like I'm into fitness, I'm
trying to make build these $1,000,000 businesses.
I'm into my family. You know, I eat right, I sauna,
(04:16):
I cold plunge. Even before everybody was
posting on Instagram about it and, you know, doing breath
work, all these things. But this one thing didn't line
up. And I felt so misaligned with my
values. I felt inauthentic and I felt
like I was hiding something and when I tried to step out of
that, I realized like, oh man, Igot AI have an issue here
because it's really hard. Like I would go a couple days
(04:39):
and then all of a sudden I'm back.
You know, on my sleep sucks whenI try and stop.
So I just go back so that I can actually sleep and oh, of
course, we want to go out on theweekend.
I don't want to be a downer or whatever the, the excuse was or
the reason. And, and then I try to make it
through 30 days and I, I did that a couple times.
I didn't do it a lot and it, it was definitely very difficult,
(05:02):
but through complete accident, Ikind of found my way out of
that. And there were a couple
combination things that we can talk about there.
But eventually I was able to getout of that nightly wine routine
and never go back. And that's been about what was
the 2016? 2016 good for you, man.
(05:24):
Yeah, I it's interesting to hearyou say that because I relate
with all of it. And when I've what how I've
learned to describe my relationship with drinking is
that there's been seasons and inthe the first season of my
drinking, unfortunately for me, probably like 14 years old to,
you know, the early 20s, right. It was using alcohol to amplify
experiences, right? We all know it pre gaming at a
(05:47):
concert. How about that, right?
And that's just one example. Whatever it is, college,
etcetera. But then there was this lull
where I wouldn't say I had it under control, but it was in
control compared to other parts of my life, right?
But then where it started to ramp up again and is the real
the second season when instead of using it for social events,
amplifying experiences, I started very intentionally using
(06:10):
it to turn off negative emotions, ruminating, stress,
overwhelm, etcetera. And I found that if I just
reflect on those two seasons, the one that was worse was when
I was using it as, call it self medication, right?
And that's essentially what you described.
But I find it interesting. I think that's a common pattern
for people, especially as they move into corporate life,
(06:33):
entrepreneurial life, and reallywhat's underneath that, Lots and
lots of responsibility and deadlines.
And then when you layer over that family, and I know you're a
married man, you have multiple kids, your margin just is
eviscerated. And then I found that because
alcohol is and can be so effective at turning down the
noise, you turn to it more and more.
(06:55):
It's snowballs. You got yourself a pretty nasty
habit. Yes, very much so.
And you know, I'll tack on to what you said there.
There's the cycle that this repeats and I'm sure it's
different for everybody, but I think some people could probably
relate to this in that, OK, you wake up, you have regret all
tonight's the night. Like I'm not doing this shit
(07:16):
anymore. And so for me, I get, it's
almost like I wanted to punish myself.
So I would get up, try to sweat this out, like go for a jog,
probably hit my gym a little bitlater, trying to eat right, do a
green shake, whatever I could toget myself back right, get work,
do my responsibilities, just push through it.
And by the afternoon or late evening, I'd start to feel
(07:41):
better, start to feel more myself.
And I'd start to, and it was such a tough day.
And I think to myself, you know what, it's been a tough day.
What reward myself exactly? And that cycle literally
repeated for over a decade, literally repeated for over a
decade. And it's, it's tough.
It's really tough. And there are a few things that
(08:02):
I can identify. We can talk about what changed,
what interrupted that and what didn't work.
And I can tell you what didn't work is that I would just make a
promise and just hope and wish and, and rely on my own strength
because I was so strong in otherareas that I thought, well, if I
can push through these things and think my way out of it, why
can't I do that? But the crazy thing is, is that
I just kept doing it and doing, trying to do the same thing, you
(08:24):
know, like I, I tonight will be different.
And then it's like Groundhog Day.
Yeah, yeah. You use the word misalignment
earlier. I'm going to double click on
that real quick. And then I, I do want to learn
all about how you eventually broke the cycle.
But when when I hear misalignment, what, what it
reminds me of is, you know, at atime where I was really
(08:45):
successful in my career, if you just looked at a picture of me
with my family and learned a little about me, you'd think
like, oh, that guy's got it under control, right.
And I can remember times when, you know, I'd I'd put on my, I
like to call like my, you know, my clown suit go to work, like
with my costume, my work costume.
And I'd be standing up in front of dozens of people giving
these, if I'm being not humble, like really good presentations
(09:07):
and people would, you know, hit me up on the side and say,
Jesse, like, dude, you're reallygood at this, like, etcetera.
I get all this affirmation in that realm.
And then I go to church with my family and just put on, you
know, everything's got together.And then there be times when I'm
like sitting up at night drunk at 11:30 watching some stupid
thing on YouTube, and I would feel like an imposter.
(09:28):
I felt like a fraud. I felt like I was putting on
this performance and all these other areas in my life, but in
like the real private moments, Iwas drinking alcohol because I
just couldn't kind of want to use negative language, right.
But I just couldn't cope with all the pressure, waking up
hungover, grumpy to my kids. And I just started to grow this
like fraudulent feeling about myself.
(09:49):
Yes, and and the whole thing waslike, how do I how do I just
learn how to cope with life? Maybe that means do less things
and focus less on certain things, but that fraudulent
feeling just ate away and ate away and ate away to the point
where there was shame. And that's, that's an important
word, you know, shame. And I don't think people talk
about the shame part of it enough, honestly.
(10:11):
Absolutely. And you know, one point to where
you're saying that comes up, it's a little bit off topic, but
not really that we're talking about.
And that is like, like you, you know, all appearances outside it
look good, you're fit and all these things.
Same with me now. I don't want to like disconnect
from some people, but the peoplethat you that the things that
you see out there, like the transformation, the side by side
(10:33):
photos, that's amazing. But there are so many people
that you could look those side by side photos and you really
wouldn't see a massive physical difference.
And I think that gets a lot of people stuck in a in a couple
ways. Number one is they might look at
themselves and then compared to somebody else and say, well, it
(10:54):
must not be that big of a problem for me.
I already knew it was a problem.I didn't need convincing of
that. But but also it'll you look at
people also that you model after, like maybe you go to a
party and you're like, why does you know Johnny over there?
He'd like he, he can have that drink in his hand.
He's got it together. Why can't I be like that?
Well, you don't know if Johnny'sgoing to go home and and slam a
(11:16):
bottle of Johnny Walker, you know, and you would never know
by looking at him. So I think like comparison or
perceived what a what a problem would look like.
I think people need to like, if they have that, take that out of
their head. Yeah, don't judge a book by the
cover. And the cover is what you see
Johnny at the party doing and when he goes home they like he's
(11:37):
could be a completely different person, but.
I could, I could have a drink and be totally like chill in
social situations and then I'd like not have that capacity for
control and at home. Yeah.
And when you were, I'll just usethis phrase, but like when you
were in the depths of your drinking, maybe when you, you
know, had that cycle happen overand over your decade.
And was it was the problem, if you will, was it your drinking
(12:01):
frequency? Was it the intensity, like binge
drinking, or was it intermittently a combination of
both? You know, I'd probably say it
was pretty regular and it was pretty much the same amount that
mounted. So I have, I never drank during
the day, I never drank in the morning.
I always got my stuff done. And I generally, yeah, I'd say
binge drink. I drank wine in the evening.
(12:23):
I could easily Polish off bottleand a half of wine very fast,
sometimes 2 and sometimes less. Of course.
And and there were of course like when I had early
responsibilities, you know, those days were different.
But by and large I was my own boss.
So I had very little, the only Ihad very little accountability
(12:46):
to somebody else. My only I was accountable to
myself and I let myself down a lot.
Look one in ten Americans today.Struggle with alcohol use
disorder? And I was one of them.
Did you know that there is a safe science backed daily pill
that you can take to drink less or even quit?
Alcohol for good. It's called naltrexone, a doctor
(13:07):
prescribed medication that you get online and our sponsor or
health is the nation's leading provider of naltrexone to date
or has helped over 35,000 peoplefind freedom from alcohol and
I'm proudly one of them. To get started, text Strength to
710710. Again, that's strength to 710710
(13:30):
and get started on your journey to finally find freedom from
alcohol. So sounds like for about a
decade you're doing this. Rinse, repeat, right?
I shouldn't have done that. I'm going to do better.
I'm going to use grit and willpower, but then finally
something stuck. What worked for you?
How'd you do it? How'd you break the cycle?
(13:50):
Yeah, so the sequence went a little bit like this.
So I I'm was big in a mountain biking and at this time I was
actually trying to make adjustments on my own.
And one of the things I did was commit to like, I'm going to
compete in mountain biking, I'm going to get good to it.
And there were groups that met early.
And so I started saying, I'm going to be there at 6:00 AM on
a Saturday, right? And so I, that was with the
(14:13):
first step. And then one of the people that
I mountain biked with was a friend of mine who actually
happened to be my naturopathic Dr. And he also worked in a
substance abuse program as a consultant on the, the
medication treatments and supplementation.
And he was like, well, listen, if you're going to take a break,
there are things that you can dothat can help you support your
(14:34):
body. It'll recover faster.
It's going to make you make you less stressed and sleep better
because sleep was always a big issue when I'd stop.
So he gave me those supplements.So I took those and I went off
on my 30 day quest and I actually got there.
And so I got to the 30 days and normally I'd go right, you know,
OK, I made it. You know, things should be
different. I read the habit books on, you
(14:55):
know, 30 days and you can changethe astronauts.
You know, we're able to do conclave glasses upside down and
took them 30 days to adjust, butit never worked, right.
And so I remember pumping gas ata gas station, just sitting
there with my own thoughts. My wife was in the car and I
thought, why don't I go to 60 days?
That was my 30 day thing, you know, and I, I leaned in the
(15:17):
window and I said, Hey, I'm going to go 60 days.
She's like, do it. And then so I did.
And the that second sixty, that 2nd 30 days was easier, right?
And so I got to the 60 days and I said, huh, I'm going to go 90
days. So I went 90 days.
And that was even easier than the 6060 day mark.
(15:39):
I went just short of a year. I, I didn't count days or
anything beyond the 90. I sort of knew, you know,
generally what it was, but I wasjust doing really good.
My new habits were on autopilot.My nightly drinking wasn't
there. And, and that's sort of like
after a while and everything, like everything started to flow
to me like like abundance, you know, I've always been a
(16:00):
believer in metaphysical things,but this was just so obvious.
Like I got, all of a sudden I was, got a new position, was
paid more than I've ever been paid.
I just felt like everything was going my way.
And it just seems like no coincidence.
And that's when I started thinking, you know what, what
(16:21):
I'm really fascinated to know, Like, why did I struggle for 10
years and all of a sudden, like here I am.
And the big reason I wanted to answer that was because I felt
so alone at the time of change. I didn't mention, you know, I
did all the typical things. Google, am I an alcoholic quiz?
(16:42):
You know, I explored even going to meeting and I just like
something about admitting that Iwas powerless, something about
like it just it wasn't for me. I mean, I think it's amazing.
It works for people. It wasn't for me.
And that's just what how I saw it.
And at that time, this whole mindful drinking and soberish
(17:04):
movement and sober curiosity, like that was the only people
that talked about taking breaks were people that were seen as
probably having a problem or alcoholic.
And so I felt at that time like,OK, I didn't need that program.
Something worked for me. What was it?
What changed? And that's really what kind of
led to the book, which then led to me working with Sunnyside,
(17:27):
who does mindful drinking as a software company and, and doing
that podcast and they're writinganother book and doing some
mindful drinking courses. And then now with the supplement
company, which was, as you probably can tell as part of
that story. I have always thought, and
especially realized since I doveinto this podcast and started
talking to awesome people like you, I've always thought that
(17:49):
supplements have been drastically overlooked in the
recovery journey. To me, it makes no sense that
we're so quick to take supplements or vitamins and
minerals and medication for anything and everything.
It's including mental health, right?
But when people are embarking onthis, what can be a difficult
journey of ups and downs to start removing something like
(18:11):
alcohol. I just think there's not enough
awareness around the different supplements that you can take
that can help with that journey.Of course it is going to take
effort and time, but if you can take some supplements that are
good for you, no side effects and just kind of aid in that
journey. I mean, why not do it?
And I love that you've started asupplement company as part of
your story because who better todo it than you?
(18:33):
Can you talk about however you want to start, but some science
behind it. But what are some supplements
that you've experimented with ormaybe you know you're offering
now and if you if you're able tolike and why do they work for
lack of better question. Yeah, well, first of all,
(18:53):
alcohol pretty much messes with every part of your system, like
your entire your brain, your nervous system and everything.
And because it depletes things and almost like 90% of drinkers,
it depletes things like B vitamins, which doesn't sound
terrible. You're like B vitamins, big
deal. But like it is a big deal to
your mood, to your to your stress levels.
(19:15):
It depletes magnesium, amino acids, it messes up with your
gut, glutathione, all these things.
You know, it's going to mess with dopamine, GABA, cortisol,
which are all going to drive stress and like difficulty with
mood regulations and cravings, which all are going to drive
behaviors, right? And so they're all linked to
(19:36):
these things. So if you can take things that
can counter is a counter effect to what alcohol is doing to your
body is going to lessen the impact, which then drive the
repeat behaviors. And so that's really the, the
approach is to replenish, regulate and rebuild and it
starts with supplementation, food, sleep and regulating your
(20:00):
stress because if you can get those under management, like I
said, you're going to have a higher likelihood of success.
So that's really the approach that we took now.
There's also another really interesting supplement and I
mean we can talk about that, butlike B vitamin at its baseline,
we use one called benfotyamine and the thing about that is that
(20:22):
it's bioavailable. Most of the B vitamins that you
would get like AB1 inside of like Walgreens, for example, is
just going to go down the toilet, so to speak with your
money. And so like supplementation is
great. I think just finding a good
source for the supplementation is also like just as important
(20:42):
as figuring out which ones you're going to use.
Now there's a really interestingone called kudzu and kudzu is,
has been used in Chinese medicine for thousands of years
and it's actually been clinically studied.
There's been about 3 pretty wellknown ones where varied, varied
groups, but most of them have a pretty serious drinking problem
(21:02):
and they just took the kudzu andthey reported somewhere between
30 and 57% reduction in the amount they drink.
So if you've ever heard about something like naltrexone, it's
sort of like a not a natural naltrexone in that it lowers
your in a different totally different way in the brain.
(21:23):
It doesn't actually block the euphoric effects, it just the
outcome is that you drink less. So that's another approach that
we're taking to then aid people because some people might want
to taper off or some people might not want to quit, but they
want to drink less. Look, life can be hard and
stressful sometimes, we all knowthat.
But when it comes to supplements, why is it that
nobody talks about stress and resilience?
(21:45):
For me, I take the Adaptogen stack from Momentous
Supplements. It's a daily blend of
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I think it's awesome. Switching gears a second labels,
(22:32):
OK, kind of a kind of a pivot here.
You mentioned some of them earlier, sober, sober, curious,
mindful drinking, moderate drinking, there's there's so
many out there and then there's Gray area.
Can you just talk a? Little bit about why.
Labels are important. I can talk about why I think
they're not. Important.
(22:52):
Better. Better yet, why are they not
important, Mike? Because I think that people are
actually looking. First of all, your drinking is
not your who you are is a behavior.
It's not an identity. And you don't have to unless it
serves you attached to an identity or a label around your
behavior. You know, like, so that that's
(23:13):
my take is unless it's serving you, unless like grabbing onto a
label like I'm an alcoholic is actually serving you, Don't be
forced into that box to try and define that.
Like, do I fit in that category?Instead, I think you should
focus your effort on like, what could I do today or what would
my life look like if I could change it to exactly how I want
(23:34):
it to be? And what are the steps that I
can get there? Because the labels not going to
get you there. That the the mindset and the
focus and the path to get there is is what I believe is more
important. Do you, do you have like if, if
I were to ask you, how would youdescribe your drinking?
Like where are you today? Do you, do you have a label or
(23:56):
sentence or you just kind of like, no, but what do you mean?
The funniest thing is, is that Ireally don't even know how to
define it, nor do I like to, to put a label or define anything
because a label, like I said, islike is an identity.
And I think that there's a senseof permanence there.
For me, my goals in life, whether it be with my career,
(24:16):
whether it be with my fitness orconstantly moving, they're
always changing. And there are times in my life
where I'm going through a phase where I will not have a single
drink at all. Six, like for example, I didn't
have anything for six months. We went to Spain.
I wanted to have some wine on the weekends.
We're back from Spain. I don't have I don't have
(24:36):
anything to drink. Now what?
What do I call myself? I don't know.
I like. You.
Know like I don't know do I am IA mindful drinker where I count
my drinks? No, I don't do that.
Am I mindful? Like am I sober?
No, I'm not that either. Who cares?
No, hey, man, I like how you putthat it like when you have a
label, it's just the permanence of it and it kind of attaches to
(25:00):
you and it follows you around. And, you know, alcohol gets all
of these labels. But I mean, alcohol is just one
habit that can wreak havoc, right?
I mean, there's so many other things.
I think what's what? What's the label?
For you. Consume too much social media?
What's the label for? That because.
That's distracting us, that's wasting time, that's taking us
away, that's killing our focus and.
(25:20):
Eating junk food or doing all these other things that or fast
food or, you know, like, but I will say, you know, there's not
a label. But I will say, like I
mentioned, the mindful drinking,I am definitely mindful of how I
was and, and where I never want to be again.
And I have never gone back to that.
And that was part of that. The reason people might say,
(25:41):
why'd you take a year off and then if you're doing so great,
why'd you have any? Because I didn't want a lifetime
of wondering like, is this this fear of this taboo that I can
never go there. And if I touch it, like my life
will fall apart. And so with it, with an
experimental approach like I, which I think is the most
beneficial to anybody's, to approach it with an experiment,
(26:03):
I said, let me see what happens.Well, guess what?
I didn't go back to drinking every night and it wasn't a
thing. And I, I proved to myself that
I, I can't trust myself And, andto me that was important.
I did sweet. We covered a lot.
We covered habits, journaling. I promise you I'll try it.
You can text me to follow up with me.
Labels, mindset, fitness. I feel like we hit on a lot of
things, but is there anything oris there a thing that you would
(26:27):
share with somebody that maybe is considering making a change
in their life? And so I have a lot of
literature on this, but I've been playing with the new thing
that I called the reset. And so I'm going to run through
it for the first time here with you.
That's good. All right.
The first one is R, which it stands for.
Run it as an experiment. This really, I think if you take
(26:50):
an experiment mindset that it takes the pressure off,
everybody's like, I don't want to quit drinking, but I really
would like to take a break. We'll run it as an experiment,
like take 30 days off, take 90 days off.
And if it doesn't work for you, just go right back to where you
were. Like see what you learn.
Like you are not committing to like forever anything.
So run it like an experiment. Next would be this is an
(27:13):
impactful exercise. So E is envision where you're
headed. So I want you.
I think it's you take a time machine and you sit in your head
and you say, if I changed my drinking the way I want it to be
right now, think of what would happen in one year, then five
years. Maybe you're doing mountain bike
races like I said, or maybe in 10 years, maybe like you're
(27:37):
making more money than you ever did.
You have the best relationship. You know your family is united,
you have your spiritual, all these things.
Whatever is important to you now, do it for the other way.
If you if nothing changed about your drinking or it got worse,
what would your what in a year would that look like?
You know, how's your job in fiveyears?
How's your health in 10 years? Are you maybe having hard
(27:58):
conversations with your doctor and maybe are, you know, is
everybody in your family still united?
Like think about like the worst case scenario that you do not
want to happen and keep both those images as motivators to
either don't do something or to stick with something.
Next would be S. So start with just one small
(28:18):
step and it doesn't have to be like tomorrow I'm quitting
drinking. Why don't you just like say
tomorrow I'm going to start drinking an hour later so that I
don't drink as much as I normally do.
Or maybe like I always drink a six pack, maybe just drink 5
that night. Like whatever small step that
you think is manageable and something they can get you
(28:40):
started because you really just want these small wins.
Try that and running it like an experiment.
If it doesn't work, you know, look back and be like, well, if
it didn't work, what can I do tochange that and and try it
again. Next would be E equip yourself
for urges. So you need to pre plan when
urges come up. Like I'm going to break my
(29:00):
commitment. I'm going to have that 6 beer,
whatever it is like, but you know, you need to have things
like OK, I'm usually usually come home from work and go
straight to the fridge and grab a beer.
Well, come home and go for a walk.
Come home and put an awesome TV show that always makes you laugh
like. How about don't don't have the
(29:22):
beers? Don't have the beers in the
fridge? Don't have the beers in the
fridge. You need to plan ahead.
Like don't. Don't rely on your tired mind
that's also going through of mini withdraw because it's
pushing like all the different chemicals in your body to seek
relief and pleasure, which also lends itself to equip yourself
(29:42):
with supplements and just be ready for them because they will
come. And then the final one I have is
treat slip UPS as data because everybody tends to wake up and
beat themselves up. And that shame that you talked
about. And you need to stop doing that
because #1 it feels terrible foryourself, but then also it has
(30:05):
no result. And so one of the ways that I
stop shame is once I feel the shame and it's coming on, I
asked myself, is this serving meright now?
Because if it's not serving you,which it isn't, then you need to
stop those thoughts and instead look at it as an opportunity.
Like, thank you, I'm awake today.
I'm going to try again tomorrow or today and I'm going to look
(30:29):
back at these data points of like, what can I do different
today so that I can probably runthis experiment and maybe have
success tonight or tomorrow, whenever it is I love.
It you heard it first on runningfree, run it.
Envision it small steps, equip yourself and treat slip UPS like
data to get that right. That's right.
I love it. Reset, reset everybody.
(30:51):
That's awesome, man. I love it.
Hey, look, dude, this is this has been great.
It's been absolutely phenomenal.I wish you absolutely the best
with Cloud 9. I think it's an amazing company.
I'm going to put the link in this episode description.
I'm probably going to put reset down in the episode description
too, and I'll link to all the places, man.
But this was an absolutely phenomenal conversation.
I really appreciate you. Well, thank you.
And in the traditional reset, like if anybody wants to use the
(31:13):
code reset, I'll toss in 20% offif they want to go check out so.
I like it. Awesome, man.
We'll have to get our families together up here in the
beautiful state of Colorado. Oh yeah, we're doing it for
sure. Let's.
Do it. Mike Hardenbrook, everybody.
All right everybody, that's the show.
Folks. Thank you so much for tuning
into this podcast and spending some time with us today.
(31:35):
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(31:55):
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