July 14, 2025 • 45 mins
What’s it really like to be a stay-at-home dad in America?
In this raw and honest episode, Jesse sits down with longtime friend and future fellow podcaster Dave Lipay (The Off Tangent Podcast, Coming Soon) for a conversation about ALL THINGS parenting, and being a Stay-at-Home Dad.
From wrestling with ego and identity, to finding meaning in the daily chaos, they unpack the decision to stay home, the emotional weight that comes with it, and why it might just be the most important (and underappreciated) job there is.
Together, they explore:
- Breaking gender stereotypes around parenting
- How to find purpose when there’s no paycheck or praise
- The emotional toll of burnout, overstimulation, and isolation
- Why teamwork with your partner is everything
- The long-term beauty and legacy of being present
Whether you’re a stay-at-home dad or mom, a working parent, or just trying to figure out what matters most in parenthood, this episode is for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
No one can really understand that life unless they're in it.
And that for a man to explain that they're a stay at home dad,
they're leaving a job that they've been working a decade in
and growing in that position to then have to go home.
And if they see it as quitting, they almost think it's an easy
way out. But once you're in it, like you
(00:20):
said, it's just the hardest thing you've ever been a part of
it being a stay at home dad. All right, everybody, welcome to
(00:43):
Running Free. I'm your host Jesse Carriage at
Thank you so much for being here.
We've got an awesome topic that I want to talk about today.
Stay at home dadding, I think it's called stating we're trying
to figure out what to call it. But being a stay at home dad,
the diary of a stay at home dad,if you will.
And I've got an awesome guest. My good friend Dave's going to
be joining us. What's up, Dave?
(01:05):
Hi, Jesse. Thank you.
Thanks for having me. It's a it's a pleasure to have
you my friend. This has been a long time coming
and who better to talk about being a stay at home dad than a
stay at home dad right now? That's me.
That's my title. That's what I scream at my kids.
I'm home. I'm home for good.
(01:26):
So yeah, this is exciting. I'm happy to be here.
I I think it's going to be an awesome conversation, man.
I also, I have been a completelyfocused stay at home dad as well
and I have a lot to share. I mean, you and I have talked
offline about this man It, it isan amazing job, quote UN quote.
It's an important job, but it isfucking hard I.
(01:50):
Didn't know we could say that. Yes, I, we'll edit that out.
Yeah, it is hard. And I've been, you know, it
depends on the age of the kids. It changes with time.
I, we were talking a little bit just before about when the kids
are younger. There's different challenges.
And my kids are, I'd want to approach.
She's 9 and there's a whole different preteen dynamic there
(02:15):
that sometimes I'm happy to dealwith as opposed to my wife.
So it's probably sometimes better for dad to be around,
sometimes better for mom. But we're making it through.
And the tricky part is it just when you feel like you've got a
particular age down, they changeand they grow older.
So how long were you kind of like in the quote UN quote
corporate world? It's about a decade.
(02:36):
I was in college athletics and maybe a little over a decade
with like grad school and careeradvancement.
Got a taste of that moving up. Loved.
I love being around sports. And then it became a little bit
sour, but I kind of got burnt out in athletics.
And it kind of worked out where my wife was that stay at home
(02:58):
mom at that time. And through long conversations,
we decided to switch. I never thought that would be
what I'd be doing. I never would have entertained
being a stay at home dad. I actually can remember
specifically when Christina and my wife told me she wanted to be
a stay at home mom. And it was after she was
pregnant. So there was no turning back.
(03:19):
I couldn't change her mind and she wanted to do it to her.
Mom was a stay at home mom. I had two working parents and it
was just different dynamic growing up.
So I never was really exposed toit and I don't think I would
change it for the world now. Now that we had at least one
parent home with our kids basically their entire lives,
somewhat, whether one of us is working part time, full time,
(03:43):
getting them off the bus now from school, It's really been
something special that I don't think I would trade for the
world and I'm glad my wife took that first step.
What were your fears, trepidations, what was going on
in your in your mind and your heart before you made that
decision? Say, Yep, I'm going to be a stay
at home dad. Like we have both got advanced
(04:08):
degrees working towards something.
Why would we want to cut that off and stay at home?
You had that traditional viewpoint of, you know, go to
school, you work, right? And then you'd get childcare.
So when she said she wanted to be a stay at home mom, it kind
of OK, well, I didn't know we were going to go that direction.
If I wanted to advance, we wouldhave had to uproot the family
and move in my career. And it just seemed through our
(04:31):
conversations, that's not what our family dynamic needed.
It's kind of foreshadowing for when this just happened a couple
months ago. Again, just not good for our
family. And you know, that traditional
viewpoint of it. We work, get money, put kids in
child care. It changed when I saw her being
(04:52):
a stay at home mom and how the impact it had on the kids.
She's much more patient than I am.
She's definitely a more loving individual than I am.
I don't know if we had our kids on here, maybe they would say
something different with me in the background staring at them,
but they I I've certainly learned a lot.
I learned a lot through her watching her.
(05:13):
There's first couple years with the kids, but the conversations
we had about me coming into thisrole, really I just thought I
could do it. I thought learn through her and
I would learn on the job. But with young kids and you
know, at the time, I think my son was still, he was only, he
wasn't even a year yet. So he was still breastfeeding at
(05:33):
that time. So a lot of my credit to my
wife, she's pumping at work, at a new job and I'm, you know, at
home with the kids with a younger child.
So definitely a learning curve, but you know, learning that
dynamic and being at home was important for me to see her do
it. And then my transition was
easier knowing that it could happen or it could be done.
(05:56):
Yeah, I I remember when so in onin my journey.
Anyway, Meg, my wife had been working for about a decade and
when we started having kids, we were both working and then she
similar to to your wife, Christina said, Hey, I want to,
I want to be a stay at home. And she did that for about 3
years. So I, you know, said great.
You know, I see the value in youbeing home with the kids.
(06:17):
And then again, similar to you, you didn't use these words, but
I will. But when I started to burn out
in my corporate career, traveling a lot, young kids at
home, dealing with like, you know, the pressures of work and
corporate life and politics and just trying to like be
everywhere at at the same time. When I decided, hey, we decided
I should say like, I'm going to step back and my wife wanted to
(06:40):
go back to work at that time, I remember thinking I understood
what it took or what it meant tobe like a stay at home.
I also remember humbly thinking I had what it took to be
successful at it. I had to like, oh, I'm, I'm
regimented, I'm oriented, I'm time centered.
Like I can put together these agendas.
Everything's going to go to plan.
I remember what I thought it wasgoing to be like and then I
(07:01):
remember what it felt like, say six months in and two things
come to mind. 1 And I won't, I won't cuss this time, but it was
a lot harder than I thought it would be.
And I thought it would be hard. I'd, I did not go into it like,
oh, stay at home like, like I knew there'd be challenges, but
it was harder even than I thought it would be.
(07:22):
That was the first thing. And then the second thing I
slowly started to realize is I don't think I'm built for this.
And what I mean by that is I'm built to kind of get like
instant gratification of accomplishing something.
I'm built to like you ever heardlike there's bird dogs and cage
dogs. Bird dogs like to go out and
(07:43):
build and conquer and be able tolike, you know, put your put
your flag in the world and be like, that's what I did.
When you're just day in and day out.
I don't even want to use, I wantto be careful with language
here. I don't want to say just when
you are day in, day out, existing in this very private,
smaller world where no one necessarily sees what you're
(08:06):
doing and the effort and the driving and the challenges,
right? When you're kind of contained
with no outlet and you can't measure yourself against the
outside world when you're not getting feedback, like instant
feedback on like what you're producing.
And I say that like through likethe work lens, I became very
restless. I don't know if that resonates
(08:26):
with you all, but like, I realize like, wow, this is hard
because I need to learn how to be self fulfilled And I need to
learn how to find joy and gratification from hate my my
struggles and my challenges and all of the work and all the
commitment to my kids. I'm not going to see those
rewards or those benefits until they grow up to be awesome
(08:48):
little humans. But you don't get that
day-to-day when you're just in struggling, right?
And I don't know if that resonates with you, but like
those are my 2 like big aha moments early on as a stay at
home dad. I would say something you
touched on organization and routine.
I'm, I pride myself on being organized, need that routine and
young kids need the routine too.Nap time, certain feeding time,
(09:12):
all that. And even now routine.
Our kids are still built that way.
But when they go off routine, that's where I kind of
struggled. If missed a nap, the kid didn't
sleep or snack, didn't arrive atthe right time and they're
whining, they're crying. I remember I had to put earplugs
in with my son just cuz he was trying to talk at the same time.
(09:33):
He can't talk yet, but he's he'swe called him the pterodactyl
because he was just loud and I would be at home with earplugs
and I could hear him and I certainly he was safe everyone
but I. Disclaimer.
But my my wife would come home and I'd have earplugs in just
because he was just that loud. And that's something, one of my
weaknesses was I can't take thatloud noise, that many loud
(09:57):
noises constantly. And again, like you said, you
weren't built for it. I don't think I was originally
built for it, but I, I learned and I was, I was a stay at home
dad for through COVID and we hada lot of, a lot of time together
then couldn't even leave the house.
So I learned a lot about myself.I learned a lot about the kids
(10:18):
and building that routine and I,there was a struggle there.
I'm not, I'm not going to lie, like you said, getting burned
down in the corporate world. I certainly hit that wall too in
the corporate world. And it can't, I want to say my
wife got this job offer at the right time because I was hitting
a wall too. And it seemed like the perfect
time to switch. But then once I was in the stay
at home dad life, I saw how hardit was.
(10:40):
You reference how hard you knew it would be hard and difficult,
but I never could have imagined how hard.
Because you need, I need that pat on the back sometimes I need
that. You're doing great.
That's great job. You did so good with those
dishes. Yeah.
But it's impossible because you never get that you're working on
your own. Yeah, Yeah, that like I think I
(11:01):
thought by running away from my corporate career, I would feel
differently because I thought how I was responding to those
stresses and pressures were circumstances.
And I thought by removing the circumstances that I would feel
better. And again, I knew it was going
to be harder, but but what woundup happening was a different set
(11:22):
of circumstances wound up makingme stress and feel the same way,
but it was just for different reasons.
On one side, I don't have to go into, I think anyone that's
working in a corporate job with expectations, performance,
politics, all that, we know how that can be stressful.
But what was new for me was justlike constantly dysregulated,
(11:42):
constantly overstimulated. This is me just from like the
volume of sounds and needs and unexpected outbursts and all
those things. So it was like shocking for me
was like, wow, I thought I wouldfeel different.
And maybe more specifically, I thought I would feel better.
I thought I would feel like I had more control of my life.
(12:02):
But what made it harder, just atthat second point that I made
earlier, the thing I realized was I felt less in control that
I've ever felt in my life. When how you put it earlier is
like, I have a routine, we're going to follow it.
And then when shit goes off the rails, how am I going to respond
to it? And one of my biggest lessons
was around weaknesses. I think my weakness was and
(12:24):
still is a weakness that I'm trying to bring up is how good
am I just letting go and just kind of rolling with it.
Woo Wei, if you're into Eastern woo woo stuff, right, But like
not resisting things fell apart.What does it mean?
Don't blow up, don't like let myinner kind of temperature rise.
That was the biggest thing for me because I, I thought I can
control the, my environment and with young kids, you absolutely
(12:46):
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(13:27):
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No, the environment has to, you have to react to what's in front
of you. And I just go back to the not
feeling important about what I'mdoing.
Like I, I always, I thought I was doing something great.
My wife was totally supportive and get, you know, she'd come
(13:48):
home from work and give me praise.
Look how great if you know, the kids are doing great,
everything's great. She was just, it was a very
positive thing. But that inner battle of what
did I accomplish today? You know, that instant
gratification of like seeing thechildren grow day-to-day doesn't
really happen. You need that longitudinal look
(14:08):
to see their progress and it's hard.
You have to like you said, you wanted to be that self
fulfilling feeling good about yourself.
And I, I kind of hit a wall at atime.
I mean, I got burnt out with stay at home dad life after some
time because it just was it, it was building up.
There was just like the tension of just trying to feel like
(14:30):
you're doing everything at the house, everything for these kids
and there's no, you know, what'sthe, what's the payment?
I'm not, you know, not even justfinancially, but what, what are
you working towards? What are you working for?
And you just don't see it. Sure, the kids are great and
everything, honestly, it's great. 100% was the right
decision to have not just me, but one of us home.
(14:51):
But me being home, it was a goodthing, but I just didn't see it
and it started to get in a darker place I guess.
Yeah, how much of the, oh, thesewere burned out again?
How much of the burnout on the stay at home dad's side of the
fence was from the daily repetition of what you were
doing versus lingering thoughts of what like you could be doing
(15:13):
or what you were not doing? Like second guessing it
questioning like your career, like talk me through like what
was the source of the burnout? I'd say that's the hardest part.
What? What am I not accomplishing
personally? Sure, it's great.
I'm putting this time and effortinto my family and the kids.
Even now, my wife and I will saywe're A-Team.
(15:35):
It's we, you know, we have this new job.
Yeah, I'm making some money, too.
And it's a team. It's communication is key
between a wife and a husband. That's just a different topic.
But for the family to succeed, you have to be on the same page.
And I would say the hardest partfor me where I was hitting that
(15:57):
wall was having to tell other people what I'm doing.
No one can really understand that life unless they're in it.
And that for a man to explain that they're a stay at home dad,
they're leaving a job that they've been working a decade in
and growing in that position to then have to go home and you
(16:19):
can't explain it. Especially like Division One
coaches. How do you tell them, this is my
life now I'm quitting? They they see it as quitting.
They almost think it's an easy way out.
But once you're in it, like you said, it's just the hardest
thing you've ever been a part ofit being a stay at home dad.
But being able to justify you, Ifeel like you had to like
justify this long winding story of like why we had to make this
(16:40):
decision and when that you couldprobably just look at a stay at
home mom and she she wouldn't have to say that it's just
almost accepted obviously as a stay at home mom.
That's why we're talking about it today as a real topic.
Stay at home dads is such a unique thing, but you have to
justify it. And there's always a long I
whenever I explain to people I'mlike, all right, I have to get
(17:01):
ready to tell my story. Not that I am happy to do it on
this podcast. I'm happy to be here, but it's
even just my neighbors. You know, I'm home a lot.
I see what they're doing. I'm home and I see everything.
But when they're when we're talking, you know, what do you
do? You know, it's the first thing
that comes up and you're here comes my story.
Right, right. Do you know it where it
(17:22):
resonates with me a lot? It's just making me think like,
I think I made that decision andlike, let's just say June of a
given year, 2023 to be exact, I can remember and it persisted.
I can remember like when I wouldlike meet cuz we had just moved
out to Colorado and I'd like with meeting a lot of people,
whether it's around the neighborhood, our kids are
starting to do sports. And dude, if I can just be so
(17:44):
humble to say it's like, I remember when like a dad or a
dude or someone asked me like, oh, you know, you're getting,
you know, it's coming, right? Like, oh, what do you do?
You just kind of wait for it these days.
This is the way we are. And I remember I wouldn't just
say, Oh, I don't do anything. I'm staying.
I'm staying on dad. I don't have a career.
I was not comfortable saying that.
I don't think I still would be. And I know that that's not right
and there's no truth in that, but I would always preface it
(18:07):
and then say it and then re likere explain it.
I'd say like, well, you know, for 10 years I did this and then
I got to this and then I was feeling like it wasn't the right
thing for me. So we decided and then now I do
this and it's been great. But I'm thinking about doing
this next. But hey, it's great.
I'm great to be home with the kids.
And that's because I'm like protecting or preserving
(18:29):
something. And to your point, it doesn't,
it shouldn't be that way. But like, there's something
about it that just makes you feel like you need to explain
it. Is that pride?
Is it? Is that a weakness?
I wish I was more comfortable inmy own skin.
That's really the hardest part about this whole job, and I'll
call it a job. It's just being home and having
to explain it, having to justifyand not feel like you're second
(18:53):
guessing your decision to do it when you know it's right in, in
your walls of your own home, Ourfamilies thriving, everything's
going perfect. But when you have to explain it
to another person, you start second guessing and having to
meander your way through this long thing where they're just
like, all right, man, I'd reallydon't care.
(19:13):
No, I don't care. Right, right, because you're
taking so long. But if you think about it,
though, it's like, it's understandable because from
elementary school, it's the focus is what do you want to be
when you grow up, right? And then you're working all the
way through. You're applying to colleges.
And in your case, you're playing, you know, playing
baseball in college. We met in college at Rutgers
(19:34):
studying towards doing something.
And we kind of did life together.
And I, my career went one way, yours went another.
But my point is, when you spend,you know, 30 years building
towards something and then abruptly just stop it, it makes
sense that it's like you feel like you have to explain it, But
what where there's no truth in is that there's something wrong
(19:54):
with it. And I think to your, what you
hit on is exactly right. Pride is the word.
I think the the propensity to feel like you need to justify
the decision comes from a place of pride.
Which is just deeply, deeply embedded in us because we live
our whole lives where it's supposed to be building towards
this chronological sequence, which is like promotion,
(20:14):
promotion, leave company, promote and you're climbing.
So when you cut it, like I, I want to give both of us grace
for having that instinct to be like, well, you know, let me
explain this. But at the same time, I, I think
like having conversations like this is helpful because like the
point is like, no, it's a beautiful thing to do, but it's
just also really, really hard. When you hear about those
(20:36):
stories of fathers or mothers that worked, worked, worked,
grew in their careers, and then their one regret is they didn't
spend enough time with their children.
I've thought about this, you know, you think about, I've had
time to think about this stuff and I was like, well, on the one
(20:56):
end, I'm the other end of that spectrum where I'm, I'm
certainly you mentioned it on your one of your recent podcast,
The four Pillars of being a father present.
You know, I'm certainly present,but I, I'll never say I wasn't
there during the kids younger years.
And that's something important that I can say.
(21:16):
I don't have. You know, I on the one end, I'm
not excelling in a career making, you know, what's what is
providing for your family. I have that written down, you
know, is it always going to be financial?
Is that what is actually providing for your family or you
know, I actually loved your 4 pillars.
You know, I think Otto something.
(21:38):
Otto Kelly, I don't know. You got it.
Provision, protection, praise and presence.
He never mentioned money. Now you didn't talk about that
on the podcast. So it's it's kind of
enlightening and it helped me feel like, OK, what I'm doing
matters. I know it does again, in the
(21:58):
four walls of our home. I know it, but it's just what
society the effect it has on youas you grow in this nation.
Yeah, Yeah, I like it. Nation works.
And you think about the message that I don't you cannot
understand that decision until you are a parent.
(22:18):
But I believe that like what youmodeled and what I modeled to
some degree is like, hey, like you make the decision what's
best for the family, even if it means it can be uncomfortable as
a as a man, right? I mean, that's what I think.
And I don't know how to explain I my 9 year old's asking me, are
you getting a job? And it hurts.
Let me tell you, you're just like, I don't know how to
(22:39):
explain this because I can't just go through what you did.
You know, Emory and my daughterswill be are you going to get a
job? Are you working?
Are you? And I'll be like, this is my
job. And Christina's like, well,
maybe you should list out everything you do.
And I'm like, I'm not, we shouldn't have to justify to a
nine year old, But when you're like you, when she grows up,
(23:00):
she'll see the sacrifices and why we made these decisions
where we're at as a family. And it'll mean more when she
gets older. But it's so funny the the hurt
that I feel when I get asked, are you going to get a job?
From your child Daddy, are you going to work?
Well underneath that it's like, are you lazy?
Like why don't you want to work?And it's like, how do you
(23:21):
explain that to A to a nine yearold?
You know, all right, well, this part I'm going to really enjoy.
Not everybody has I got to figure out how to say this
staying home dated. What do we say about this, Dave?
Not everybody has stated stayed home.
Dated we're we're putting words into the vernacular.
We are changing the world. Stating not not everybody has
(23:43):
been a stay at home dad before. So dude, let's talk a day in the
life. You could pick a day.
Maybe it's today. Maybe it's just some point in
time when you were absolutely just like in a chaotic season,
But like, what's this? What's a day in the life of Dave
Lepay? I won't pick today.
I'm going to try and generalize a little, but you know, you, you
(24:03):
try and plan. This goes back to our routine
and organization. This is what I'm going to
accomplish today. And then you get thrown for a
loop. You end up starting late.
You have to go food shopping. You're there longer because you
have kids and they want to help.So you're weighing every fruit
in the produce aisle because they want to use the scale.
And yes, very good, you did it. Now put it in the bag and put it
(24:26):
in the cart. And then they're hungry.
And then we're not going down this aisle.
And so anyway, you get home late, lunch is late, they're
cranky. So you're making lunch, then
you're like, wow, it's 2:00 already.
What did I do today? And I've been up since 5:30.
And that's the hardest part of this.
You know, we were talking about this episode and how, what do
you do? And it is a hard question.
(24:48):
What do you do all day? I wrote things like laundry and
our dryers. Currently broken so I can't even
do my job. I don't have the tools.
Give me why can't we have a dryer and then food prep?
You know, you try and you're notjust eating out all the time,
(25:08):
but you it's just so hard to explain how long it does take to
make each meal. And then the kids are hungry for
snack as soon as you're done cleaning up that meal.
So you're half of my life is just what's next to eat.
You're an airline attendant. You're basically a flight
attendant. Exactly, yes.
You're looking for that call like all the time.
(25:30):
Harrison's ready for a snack andyou're, you're just kind of
constantly moving, moving, moving.
And then all of a sudden it's bedtime.
And like for me, I coach the kids.
I, I've been saying this last couple months, I've been
actually busier than I've ever been when I was working
everything. I'm, it's funny when I'm talking
(25:51):
about it now, you're like, there's no other way to put it
except it is a job. So I guess I'm not really
answering what a day in the lifeis.
It does change with the seasons,but just you're constantly
behind. There are times though, where
you're, oh, wow, I have a littlebreather here.
But then that little voice in the back of your head, what are
you going to do now at this time?
What are you going to do now? What's next?
(26:12):
You're going to mow the lawn, You're going to dishes.
What do you do? What's the next thing?
Right, Yeah, you know what, dude?
I think another reason why that stay at home dad life was the
hardest ever for me is because you're you're constantly
reacting and needed and there's there's no really like a lot of
times there's no freedom unless you throw on ATV right.
(26:35):
And we can go into screen time, but at least when I was working
and and I am working in the corporate world now in addition
to the show. But when you're working, you,
even though sometimes you don't have freedom, right?
You have meetings, you have things you have to do, you have
deadlines, but you kind of have like micro freedoms in the
middle. Like if I want to turn my
attention to like this to followup to these emails and then come
(26:56):
back over here. Depending on your level of like
seniority, you can structure your day how you want.
But when you're a stay at home dad and their safety and their
whether they're fed and whether they're where they need to be,
you literally have no margin like you, you a lot of times
like you're just being pulled inall these different directions.
And I think that lack of agency where you're constantly needed,
(27:17):
that drains you so fast, so fast.
Funny you say that. Yeah, absolutely.
I you're constantly needed. I sit and try and do anything
creative, which is kind of what I'm trying to do now that I'm
home, want to pursue that creative side.
And you can't. You need to be in silence and
like focused. And then when you're just
(27:39):
constantly, what can I do next? Do you want to see my drawing?
Can I go outside? Oh, I got to put sunscreen on.
And then you just lose that focus.
Sit back down. Then they come back and I'm
hungry. I need water.
Can I go to this friend's house?You're although you're not even
with the kids, you are in a sense still needed, right?
(28:01):
And that lack of agency is a bigtrainer.
I would say that's a good way toput it.
Yeah, even if you like when you're responsible for them and
your partner's not there, your wife's not there, like there is
the you have to be aware, like the weights, like they're your
responsibility. So even if they're not in front
of you, like they're, they're onyour mind, you know?
Yeah, it's, it's unrelenting forsure.
(28:22):
Yeah, I'll tell you about a time, right.
I don't want to say it's fail. I don't know what the actual
word would be, but so I was, I was doing really good.
I set up a water slide outside, slip and slide so the kids had
two things they could do outside.
Now that requires time and effort.
So you're out there pounding thestakes into this water slide,
setting up the hose and slip andslide on the other side.
(28:46):
You're setting that up to next sunscreen.
The kids go through 2 bottles just to get them sunscreen and
then you set it all up. You're ready go.
It took 45 minutes to go. I go inside to get water.
I hear a knock on the garage door and I'm like, I just came
in. I open it.
(29:07):
It's my daughter, and she has blood going down her leg.
And I'm like, what happened? And she said, I don't know.
She said she doesn't know, but she tried the flip and slide.
And then she never. That was it the end of the day,
she couldn't do anything that I set up.
And then my son didn't want to play because he didn't have his
sister to play with him. All that set up.
(29:27):
Yeah. And sunscreen to have nothing
happen and it was and who do youtell who do I do I call you and
who do I just complain to I needto tell someone this or I'm
raging and. It's hard to let that go.
I remember similar, right? Like just to get 3 kids out of
(29:49):
the house, especially one of them at the time was, you know,
8 months old, right? So you got all the gear, you got
all the preparation time. When do they feed all that
stuff? But to get 3 kids to a park in
Northern Colorado, the amount offriggin work and unexpected
tantrums and meltdowns I don't want to wear.
I want to wear friggin, you know, winter boots in the middle
of summer. Like all the little fights that
(30:09):
you have to like get through andconquer just to get in the car
and you're just emotionally exhausted.
Like just getting in the car before the 10 minute ride to the
park. But all that to say, man, there
was this one time we were at Northern Colorado.
Picture it. And that we have so many parks
up here and they're massive. Like they're just like 3 stories
tall, loud kids running all over, parents all over.
(30:30):
And I pulled up to the park like10 minute drive of just like I
was just drained. The kids are all screaming about
something. And at this point I'm just so
fixated in my head. I probably should just turn the
car around, right? But again, you have in your
head, this is what we're doing. It's going to be great.
For some reason I thought like, we're all going to get to the
park and everything is going to be OK, you know, so we get to
the park and I'm just thinking, I'm not yelling at them, but I'm
(30:51):
yelling at them, right. So anyway, that's all context.
My, my middle child at the time,my man, she was just having a
lot of temper tantrums a lot. And especially in public, made
it really hard to go out in public.
He couldn't go out to eat. You never knew it was going to
set her off. And she just never recovered
from like the shoe fight to get to the park.
And I remember my oldest kid ranoff into the park, which already
(31:14):
under my mind is like, I always like to have eyes on her.
She's old enough, but I'd like to have eyes on her.
There's weirdos in the world. You never know.
You know, it's like we're at a park and so I have my my 8 month
old basically sleeping and I've got the like, you know, the dad
hold going right like this. And I'm really trying to get my
middle child to just like get out of her tantrum.
I'm trying everything that I know.
(31:35):
It's just not working. So she decides to scream at the
top of her lungs as I get her out of the car and hit me and
basically just hit me like in the face, which is a no, no.
And that's a discipline moment. But now I'm like, OK, we're not
going to the park, but I got to go find my other kid and I'm
holding a, a stroller and not stroller, whatever car seat.
(31:56):
And the one who hit me is threatening to like run away.
Right. So still context.
So what I what I did was I had to like hold the baby in one arm
and I slung my at the time 4 year old over my shoulder and
she's flailing like kicking me in the front because I had her
butt going that way, kicking me in the front, whacking me in the
back, bites me on the shoulder screaming.
(32:17):
And I'm walking through probably35 parents with this kid just
screaming at the top of their lungs.
And I'm just trying to like keepmy cool and look at the parents
with this face of like, okay. So much judgment.
Just looking at him and part of me is like, she's, she's so
intense that like if you would have told me like, hey, that
guy's kidnapping two kids right now.
(32:37):
Like I'm like, yeah, that's that's what that would look
like. This is mine.
It's mine. Yeah, these are mine.
And I'm like looking around the park trying to and then of
course, I finally see her and she's way up top in some monkey
bar and I'm trying to be like, get down there.
And I don't want to yell, bro. It was as far as like on a scale
one to 10. My stress levels in that moment
was like a 10. And it's 10:15 in the morning.
(33:01):
Going to say it's 9:00 AM. Bro, I've got a whole day and
like my emotional tank is just depleted and I'm supposed to go
let you know that this is a failed mission.
I got to bring them all back to the house.
I'm supposed to keep my cool. I'm supposed to address the
issues that happened with a coolhead because I don't want to
yell and be over disciplinarian.But then I've got this whole day
(33:23):
and there's no one that I can turn to and say, pick up the
phone and phone a friend and be like, hey, can you come over
here? Because I thought didn't even
cross my mind because that feelslike a failure and a submission.
But like, what I wanted to do was just go home and call my
wife who's working and be like, I need some help here.
Like come home and can you just give me 30 minutes to
(33:45):
recalibrate? Even if I just like, stared at a
wall. But most of that was to say,
Dave, it's like, I think, I hopethat paints a picture.
It's like when you get home at 10:30 and you bring those kids
back out of that car. I'm looking at 6:00 PM when my
wife gets home and just trying to, like, turn my whole attitude
around to try to have a good day.
But all's I'm feeling is defeat.I just feel like, man, this is
(34:07):
hard. And then you string that day
together day after day, week after week, month after month,
and you can see why it can become both the most beautiful
job in the world, but like, it'ssometimes, man, the most
stressful you can possibly have.Yeah.
Talk about your personal internal you're trying not to
(34:30):
show other parents. Oh, I got this under control
it's OK, I'm fine this is normal.
I got it. But right, you know you, you
were able to keep yourself but think about other people out
there and how they handle situations and the fact that you
can look internally and know youhave to like tell yourself calm
down. I've been there and it's just
(34:52):
what are what happens when parents don't do that?
And kudos to you for being able to recognize this is where I had
to grow in this moment. But you're looking at that 6:00
PM. What am I going to do now?
Like that was supposed to be at the park for two hours.
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(35:57):
today, right? Right now.
What do I do Think on my feet, you know?
And it's like, man, it's tough. And I think you touched on
something else that's so important to understand.
It's like in those rare moments when you're not needed or in
those rare moments where like the kids are like spoken for and
doing something or occupied. What we should be doing in those
moments is like recovering, restoring, reading, refilling
(36:21):
our tanks. But it's not as though stay at
home. Parents don't also have other
chores and other things to do. So what quickly happens is like,
all right, I got a free moment. You look around, be like, holy
shit, everything's under control.
And then the first thoughts are like this laundry list,
sometimes literally, but like this, unless you don't have a
dryer, but like you have this like list of things that like
(36:43):
you have to almost be really careful not to like just add
more on your plate. You have to like, resist
sometimes because you have otherstuff you have to do too, you
know? Oh.
Yeah. And then when you try and
explain, you know, you're like, I had a very busy day, this is
what I've done today. You're as you're doing it,
everything you explain plus the laundry list and you're like, I
can't wait to tell my wife when she gets home how much I did
(37:05):
today. And then when you tell her and
you're like, wow, that wasn't aslong as I thought it would be.
And I really now feel like I have to add things and you're
like, well, I, I took the dishwasher out of the big
container and I, I squirt it into the smaller container that
we use. See what's up?
(37:25):
You try and make things and you're.
I don't know how to you say it. And then if you don't get the
reaction you want, you start embellishing, just adding stuff.
So funny you say that. Like I look for that reaction,
like her being like, wow, you did so much today, Good for you.
And you're like, but I need more.
(37:46):
I need if there's no reaction. All right, well, here's
something else I did. I wept upstairs too.
You start throwing random stuff in there and at the same time we
bombed Iran the other day and that was stressful for me too
and I was trying to get. Trying to get through that while
I'm going to the park. I love it.
(38:06):
All right, ma'am. So let's talk about like some of
the greatest, maybe worst, most important lessons learned so far
in our journeys as stay at home dads or stads or whatever we're
going to call it. I'll start.
With you, you go into parenting and you say you know that we're
going to limit screen time. All we're going to do is read
(38:28):
screens are the devil. You want to keep it away,
poisoning your children, organicfood only all that you try and
list everything, but then you realize, wow, that takes effort
and we're only human. I remember our daughter was born
and I wasn't a stay at home parent yet, but it was my shift
to wake up with her. So you're like up at 5:30 in the
(38:49):
morning with a 4 month old and no TB and you had to learn how
painful that really is. And I remember just sitting
there like, wow, it is now 615 and I thought it was at least
11. And I was able to hand her off
to my wife. So you learn pretty quick that
(39:11):
it, you know, we still stuck to it.
We got better at it. But then you start to learn, OK,
it's OK, maybe to throw in some screen time, especially when
they get older. I'm, there's an article in the
Guardian that I was reading thatJen's ears are not reading to
their children. And it's kind of crazy to think
of a parent as being in that 97 to 2012 time frame, but they are
(39:35):
not reading as much with their children.
They say it's boring. That was the name of the
articles, a quote from Jen Ziers.
They think it's boring to read. Screen time is replacing
one-on-one quality interactions between parent and child.
And there's a limitation that's recommended that you limit non
educational screen time for children ages 2:00 to 5:00 to
(39:58):
about one hour per weekday and three on the week weekend.
So if I'm doing that math, you're still giving the kids
they're recommending? 11 hours a.
Week for two to five year olds, which I know we were, we didn't
do that, but that's a lot. Still to me, that's a lot and
it's in quotes non educational screen time.
(40:19):
So that kind of struck me is because we we we went right into
reading. I mean, heavily read to our
children and I'm not trying to pat my own back, but that was
something we stressed. That was one of our probably the
best things we've done. They read for fun.
Now our kids are nine and seven and they are reading for fun.
In this, they also reference that boys don't get read to from
(40:40):
zero to 2, not nearly as much asgirls.
And that's why girls are technically ahead of boys in
school and how they grow in education.
And it's just kind of tough whenyou're reading with your
children. It's one of the most beautiful,
fun things to see them go off ona journey.
They want to know more. Now my daughter's reading series
(41:01):
books where chapter books where she can like she's looking
forward to the next book. So those are things you're
excited about. Like it's what I do.
Yeah. And then just touching on the
reading role models. We've started to.
I'll sit and read my book and the kids will model after me and
read their book next to me. Now that anxiety of am I doing
(41:25):
enough? What else can I be doing around
the house? My wife comes down, she works
remotely. She'll come downstairs and see
us all reading. And my panic attack is she's
working hard and she sees us reading on the on the couch.
She has been she loves it First off, but the kids are learning
that it's OK to sit and read. You're being productive.
(41:47):
You're growing as a person by sitting there and being dad read
his book for longer than 10 seconds.
You're sitting there for 20-30 minutes and you're reading your
book. 1, you cut time off the day, but also two, you're
showing them that it's OK to be patient.
(42:07):
Just having them read for an extended period of time.
It teaches that patients and they can grow knowing that it's
OK to sit there for 32 minutes to an hour.
So that foundation you build andI'm I'm going to stress to any
Gen. Z or I come in contact with read
to your kids. Dude, I think that's beautiful,
man. I mean, if my wife walks
downstairs and I've been with the kids, we're either like
(42:28):
making fourths out of the couch and wrestling or doing something
crazy. What's what's something you
would tell me to I'm a stay at home dad.
I I need to know before I jump off the edge, what do I need to
know to make sure I'm doing a good job?
Your career doesn't matter. What is best for your children
(42:52):
matters most. You're making the right
decision. This will be hard.
You're worse at it than you think you are, but it's the most
important, beautiful thing that you could possibly do.
When it gets hard, don't drink alot of alcohol.
(43:14):
Don't self medicate when it getshard, say something.
Teamwork with your spouse matters so much.
It's so important to be open andcommunicate.
And look, if you ever want to jump back into working, you
could always do that too. But have fun.
It matters and you're going to crush it.
That's what I would say. I like it, Yeah.
(43:35):
How about you? I would say just be confident in
yourself. That's something I've struggled
with. So just be confident in your
decision. You are doing the right thing
and that's what you just hit on.They do matter the most.
It is the most beautiful thing. And think long term, big
picture, the effort you put in. Now build that foundation.
They'll just be better adults when they grow up.
(43:57):
Yeah, Amen. And I would also say invest in
home gym equipment, put it in your garage or your basement or
wherever, and take all your anger out on some weights, some
good old fashioned deadlifts. All right.
Hey, man, thank you, dude. This is great foreshadowing.
Could be some exciting stuff in the future around dadding and
other things as well. But Dave Lepay, thank you so
(44:20):
much for finally joining the Running Free podcast.
Thank you for having me, this was a great topic, a lot to talk
about. And on Dave Lepay, everybody,
see you next time. All right, everybody, that's the
show. Folks.
Thank you so much for tuning into this podcast and spending
some time with us today. We've got a favor to ask.
If you enjoyed the show, would you please consider subscribing
(44:41):
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(45:04):
brand and is greatly appreciated.
So until next time, stay strong and live deep.
No one can really understand that life unless they're in it.
And that for a man to explain that they're a stay at home dad,
they're leaving a job that they've been working a decade in
and growing in that position to then have to go home.
And if they see it as quitting, they almost think it's an easy
way out. But once you're in it, like you
(00:20):
said, it's just the hardest thing you've ever been a part of
it being a stay at home dad. All right, everybody, welcome to
(00:43):
Running Free. I'm your host Jesse Carriage at
Thank you so much for being here.
We've got an awesome topic that I want to talk about today.
Stay at home dadding, I think it's called stating we're trying
to figure out what to call it. But being a stay at home dad,
the diary of a stay at home dad,if you will.
And I've got an awesome guest. My good friend Dave's going to
be joining us. What's up, Dave?
(01:05):
Hi, Jesse. Thank you.
Thanks for having me. It's a it's a pleasure to have
you my friend. This has been a long time coming
and who better to talk about being a stay at home dad than a
stay at home dad right now? That's me.
That's my title. That's what I scream at my kids.
I'm home. I'm home for good.
(01:26):
So yeah, this is exciting. I'm happy to be here.
I I think it's going to be an awesome conversation, man.
I also, I have been a completelyfocused stay at home dad as well
and I have a lot to share. I mean, you and I have talked
offline about this man It, it isan amazing job, quote UN quote.
It's an important job, but it isfucking hard I.
(01:50):
Didn't know we could say that. Yes, I, we'll edit that out.
Yeah, it is hard. And I've been, you know, it
depends on the age of the kids. It changes with time.
I, we were talking a little bit just before about when the kids
are younger. There's different challenges.
And my kids are, I'd want to approach.
She's 9 and there's a whole different preteen dynamic there
(02:15):
that sometimes I'm happy to dealwith as opposed to my wife.
So it's probably sometimes better for dad to be around,
sometimes better for mom. But we're making it through.
And the tricky part is it just when you feel like you've got a
particular age down, they changeand they grow older.
So how long were you kind of like in the quote UN quote
corporate world? It's about a decade.
(02:36):
I was in college athletics and maybe a little over a decade
with like grad school and careeradvancement.
Got a taste of that moving up. Loved.
I love being around sports. And then it became a little bit
sour, but I kind of got burnt out in athletics.
And it kind of worked out where my wife was that stay at home
(02:58):
mom at that time. And through long conversations,
we decided to switch. I never thought that would be
what I'd be doing. I never would have entertained
being a stay at home dad. I actually can remember
specifically when Christina and my wife told me she wanted to be
a stay at home mom. And it was after she was
pregnant. So there was no turning back.
(03:19):
I couldn't change her mind and she wanted to do it to her.
Mom was a stay at home mom. I had two working parents and it
was just different dynamic growing up.
So I never was really exposed toit and I don't think I would
change it for the world now. Now that we had at least one
parent home with our kids basically their entire lives,
somewhat, whether one of us is working part time, full time,
(03:43):
getting them off the bus now from school, It's really been
something special that I don't think I would trade for the
world and I'm glad my wife took that first step.
What were your fears, trepidations, what was going on
in your in your mind and your heart before you made that
decision? Say, Yep, I'm going to be a stay
at home dad. Like we have both got advanced
(04:08):
degrees working towards something.
Why would we want to cut that off and stay at home?
You had that traditional viewpoint of, you know, go to
school, you work, right? And then you'd get childcare.
So when she said she wanted to be a stay at home mom, it kind
of OK, well, I didn't know we were going to go that direction.
If I wanted to advance, we wouldhave had to uproot the family
and move in my career. And it just seemed through our
(04:31):
conversations, that's not what our family dynamic needed.
It's kind of foreshadowing for when this just happened a couple
months ago. Again, just not good for our
family. And you know, that traditional
viewpoint of it. We work, get money, put kids in
child care. It changed when I saw her being
(04:52):
a stay at home mom and how the impact it had on the kids.
She's much more patient than I am.
She's definitely a more loving individual than I am.
I don't know if we had our kids on here, maybe they would say
something different with me in the background staring at them,
but they I I've certainly learned a lot.
I learned a lot through her watching her.
(05:13):
There's first couple years with the kids, but the conversations
we had about me coming into thisrole, really I just thought I
could do it. I thought learn through her and
I would learn on the job. But with young kids and you
know, at the time, I think my son was still, he was only, he
wasn't even a year yet. So he was still breastfeeding at
(05:33):
that time. So a lot of my credit to my
wife, she's pumping at work, at a new job and I'm, you know, at
home with the kids with a younger child.
So definitely a learning curve, but you know, learning that
dynamic and being at home was important for me to see her do
it. And then my transition was
easier knowing that it could happen or it could be done.
(05:56):
Yeah, I I remember when so in onin my journey.
Anyway, Meg, my wife had been working for about a decade and
when we started having kids, we were both working and then she
similar to to your wife, Christina said, Hey, I want to,
I want to be a stay at home. And she did that for about 3
years. So I, you know, said great.
You know, I see the value in youbeing home with the kids.
(06:17):
And then again, similar to you, you didn't use these words, but
I will. But when I started to burn out
in my corporate career, traveling a lot, young kids at
home, dealing with like, you know, the pressures of work and
corporate life and politics and just trying to like be
everywhere at at the same time. When I decided, hey, we decided
I should say like, I'm going to step back and my wife wanted to
(06:40):
go back to work at that time, I remember thinking I understood
what it took or what it meant tobe like a stay at home.
I also remember humbly thinking I had what it took to be
successful at it. I had to like, oh, I'm, I'm
regimented, I'm oriented, I'm time centered.
Like I can put together these agendas.
Everything's going to go to plan.
I remember what I thought it wasgoing to be like and then I
(07:01):
remember what it felt like, say six months in and two things
come to mind. 1 And I won't, I won't cuss this time, but it was
a lot harder than I thought it would be.
And I thought it would be hard. I'd, I did not go into it like,
oh, stay at home like, like I knew there'd be challenges, but
it was harder even than I thought it would be.
(07:22):
That was the first thing. And then the second thing I
slowly started to realize is I don't think I'm built for this.
And what I mean by that is I'm built to kind of get like
instant gratification of accomplishing something.
I'm built to like you ever heardlike there's bird dogs and cage
dogs. Bird dogs like to go out and
(07:43):
build and conquer and be able tolike, you know, put your put
your flag in the world and be like, that's what I did.
When you're just day in and day out.
I don't even want to use, I wantto be careful with language
here. I don't want to say just when
you are day in, day out, existing in this very private,
smaller world where no one necessarily sees what you're
(08:06):
doing and the effort and the driving and the challenges,
right? When you're kind of contained
with no outlet and you can't measure yourself against the
outside world when you're not getting feedback, like instant
feedback on like what you're producing.
And I say that like through likethe work lens, I became very
restless. I don't know if that resonates
(08:26):
with you all, but like, I realize like, wow, this is hard
because I need to learn how to be self fulfilled And I need to
learn how to find joy and gratification from hate my my
struggles and my challenges and all of the work and all the
commitment to my kids. I'm not going to see those
rewards or those benefits until they grow up to be awesome
(08:48):
little humans. But you don't get that
day-to-day when you're just in struggling, right?
And I don't know if that resonates with you, but like
those are my 2 like big aha moments early on as a stay at
home dad. I would say something you
touched on organization and routine.
I'm, I pride myself on being organized, need that routine and
young kids need the routine too.Nap time, certain feeding time,
(09:12):
all that. And even now routine.
Our kids are still built that way.
But when they go off routine, that's where I kind of
struggled. If missed a nap, the kid didn't
sleep or snack, didn't arrive atthe right time and they're
whining, they're crying. I remember I had to put earplugs
in with my son just cuz he was trying to talk at the same time.
(09:33):
He can't talk yet, but he's he'swe called him the pterodactyl
because he was just loud and I would be at home with earplugs
and I could hear him and I certainly he was safe everyone
but I. Disclaimer.
But my my wife would come home and I'd have earplugs in just
because he was just that loud. And that's something, one of my
weaknesses was I can't take thatloud noise, that many loud
(09:57):
noises constantly. And again, like you said, you
weren't built for it. I don't think I was originally
built for it, but I, I learned and I was, I was a stay at home
dad for through COVID and we hada lot of, a lot of time together
then couldn't even leave the house.
So I learned a lot about myself.I learned a lot about the kids
(10:18):
and building that routine and I,there was a struggle there.
I'm not, I'm not going to lie, like you said, getting burned
down in the corporate world. I certainly hit that wall too in
the corporate world. And it can't, I want to say my
wife got this job offer at the right time because I was hitting
a wall too. And it seemed like the perfect
time to switch. But then once I was in the stay
at home dad life, I saw how hardit was.
(10:40):
You reference how hard you knew it would be hard and difficult,
but I never could have imagined how hard.
Because you need, I need that pat on the back sometimes I need
that. You're doing great.
That's great job. You did so good with those
dishes. Yeah.
But it's impossible because you never get that you're working on
your own. Yeah, Yeah, that like I think I
(11:01):
thought by running away from my corporate career, I would feel
differently because I thought how I was responding to those
stresses and pressures were circumstances.
And I thought by removing the circumstances that I would feel
better. And again, I knew it was going
to be harder, but but what woundup happening was a different set
(11:22):
of circumstances wound up makingme stress and feel the same way,
but it was just for different reasons.
On one side, I don't have to go into, I think anyone that's
working in a corporate job with expectations, performance,
politics, all that, we know how that can be stressful.
But what was new for me was justlike constantly dysregulated,
(11:42):
constantly overstimulated. This is me just from like the
volume of sounds and needs and unexpected outbursts and all
those things. So it was like shocking for me
was like, wow, I thought I wouldfeel different.
And maybe more specifically, I thought I would feel better.
I thought I would feel like I had more control of my life.
(12:02):
But what made it harder, just atthat second point that I made
earlier, the thing I realized was I felt less in control that
I've ever felt in my life. When how you put it earlier is
like, I have a routine, we're going to follow it.
And then when shit goes off the rails, how am I going to respond
to it? And one of my biggest lessons
was around weaknesses. I think my weakness was and
(12:24):
still is a weakness that I'm trying to bring up is how good
am I just letting go and just kind of rolling with it.
Woo Wei, if you're into Eastern woo woo stuff, right, But like
not resisting things fell apart.What does it mean?
Don't blow up, don't like let myinner kind of temperature rise.
That was the biggest thing for me because I, I thought I can
control the, my environment and with young kids, you absolutely
(12:46):
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No, the environment has to, you have to react to what's in front
of you. And I just go back to the not
feeling important about what I'mdoing.
Like I, I always, I thought I was doing something great.
My wife was totally supportive and get, you know, she'd come
(13:48):
home from work and give me praise.
Look how great if you know, the kids are doing great,
everything's great. She was just, it was a very
positive thing. But that inner battle of what
did I accomplish today? You know, that instant
gratification of like seeing thechildren grow day-to-day doesn't
really happen. You need that longitudinal look
(14:08):
to see their progress and it's hard.
You have to like you said, you wanted to be that self
fulfilling feeling good about yourself.
And I, I kind of hit a wall at atime.
I mean, I got burnt out with stay at home dad life after some
time because it just was it, it was building up.
There was just like the tension of just trying to feel like
(14:30):
you're doing everything at the house, everything for these kids
and there's no, you know, what'sthe, what's the payment?
I'm not, you know, not even justfinancially, but what, what are
you working towards? What are you working for?
And you just don't see it. Sure, the kids are great and
everything, honestly, it's great. 100% was the right
decision to have not just me, but one of us home.
(14:51):
But me being home, it was a goodthing, but I just didn't see it
and it started to get in a darker place I guess.
Yeah, how much of the, oh, thesewere burned out again?
How much of the burnout on the stay at home dad's side of the
fence was from the daily repetition of what you were
doing versus lingering thoughts of what like you could be doing
(15:13):
or what you were not doing? Like second guessing it
questioning like your career, like talk me through like what
was the source of the burnout? I'd say that's the hardest part.
What? What am I not accomplishing
personally? Sure, it's great.
I'm putting this time and effortinto my family and the kids.
Even now, my wife and I will saywe're A-Team.
(15:35):
It's we, you know, we have this new job.
Yeah, I'm making some money, too.
And it's a team. It's communication is key
between a wife and a husband. That's just a different topic.
But for the family to succeed, you have to be on the same page.
And I would say the hardest partfor me where I was hitting that
(15:57):
wall was having to tell other people what I'm doing.
No one can really understand that life unless they're in it.
And that for a man to explain that they're a stay at home dad,
they're leaving a job that they've been working a decade in
and growing in that position to then have to go home and you
(16:19):
can't explain it. Especially like Division One
coaches. How do you tell them, this is my
life now I'm quitting? They they see it as quitting.
They almost think it's an easy way out.
But once you're in it, like you said, it's just the hardest
thing you've ever been a part ofit being a stay at home dad.
But being able to justify you, Ifeel like you had to like
justify this long winding story of like why we had to make this
(16:40):
decision and when that you couldprobably just look at a stay at
home mom and she she wouldn't have to say that it's just
almost accepted obviously as a stay at home mom.
That's why we're talking about it today as a real topic.
Stay at home dads is such a unique thing, but you have to
justify it. And there's always a long I
whenever I explain to people I'mlike, all right, I have to get
(17:01):
ready to tell my story. Not that I am happy to do it on
this podcast. I'm happy to be here, but it's
even just my neighbors. You know, I'm home a lot.
I see what they're doing. I'm home and I see everything.
But when they're when we're talking, you know, what do you
do? You know, it's the first thing
that comes up and you're here comes my story.
Right, right. Do you know it where it
(17:22):
resonates with me a lot? It's just making me think like,
I think I made that decision andlike, let's just say June of a
given year, 2023 to be exact, I can remember and it persisted.
I can remember like when I wouldlike meet cuz we had just moved
out to Colorado and I'd like with meeting a lot of people,
whether it's around the neighborhood, our kids are
starting to do sports. And dude, if I can just be so
(17:44):
humble to say it's like, I remember when like a dad or a
dude or someone asked me like, oh, you know, you're getting,
you know, it's coming, right? Like, oh, what do you do?
You just kind of wait for it these days.
This is the way we are. And I remember I wouldn't just
say, Oh, I don't do anything. I'm staying.
I'm staying on dad. I don't have a career.
I was not comfortable saying that.
I don't think I still would be. And I know that that's not right
and there's no truth in that, but I would always preface it
(18:07):
and then say it and then re likere explain it.
I'd say like, well, you know, for 10 years I did this and then
I got to this and then I was feeling like it wasn't the right
thing for me. So we decided and then now I do
this and it's been great. But I'm thinking about doing
this next. But hey, it's great.
I'm great to be home with the kids.
And that's because I'm like protecting or preserving
(18:29):
something. And to your point, it doesn't,
it shouldn't be that way. But like, there's something
about it that just makes you feel like you need to explain
it. Is that pride?
Is it? Is that a weakness?
I wish I was more comfortable inmy own skin.
That's really the hardest part about this whole job, and I'll
call it a job. It's just being home and having
to explain it, having to justifyand not feel like you're second
(18:53):
guessing your decision to do it when you know it's right in, in
your walls of your own home, Ourfamilies thriving, everything's
going perfect. But when you have to explain it
to another person, you start second guessing and having to
meander your way through this long thing where they're just
like, all right, man, I'd reallydon't care.
(19:13):
No, I don't care. Right, right, because you're
taking so long. But if you think about it,
though, it's like, it's understandable because from
elementary school, it's the focus is what do you want to be
when you grow up, right? And then you're working all the
way through. You're applying to colleges.
And in your case, you're playing, you know, playing
baseball in college. We met in college at Rutgers
(19:34):
studying towards doing something.
And we kind of did life together.
And I, my career went one way, yours went another.
But my point is, when you spend,you know, 30 years building
towards something and then abruptly just stop it, it makes
sense that it's like you feel like you have to explain it, But
what where there's no truth in is that there's something wrong
(19:54):
with it. And I think to your, what you
hit on is exactly right. Pride is the word.
I think the the propensity to feel like you need to justify
the decision comes from a place of pride.
Which is just deeply, deeply embedded in us because we live
our whole lives where it's supposed to be building towards
this chronological sequence, which is like promotion,
(20:14):
promotion, leave company, promote and you're climbing.
So when you cut it, like I, I want to give both of us grace
for having that instinct to be like, well, you know, let me
explain this. But at the same time, I, I think
like having conversations like this is helpful because like the
point is like, no, it's a beautiful thing to do, but it's
just also really, really hard. When you hear about those
(20:36):
stories of fathers or mothers that worked, worked, worked,
grew in their careers, and then their one regret is they didn't
spend enough time with their children.
I've thought about this, you know, you think about, I've had
time to think about this stuff and I was like, well, on the one
(20:56):
end, I'm the other end of that spectrum where I'm, I'm
certainly you mentioned it on your one of your recent podcast,
The four Pillars of being a father present.
You know, I'm certainly present,but I, I'll never say I wasn't
there during the kids younger years.
And that's something important that I can say.
(21:16):
I don't have. You know, I on the one end, I'm
not excelling in a career making, you know, what's what is
providing for your family. I have that written down, you
know, is it always going to be financial?
Is that what is actually providing for your family or you
know, I actually loved your 4 pillars.
You know, I think Otto something.
(21:38):
Otto Kelly, I don't know. You got it.
Provision, protection, praise and presence.
He never mentioned money. Now you didn't talk about that
on the podcast. So it's it's kind of
enlightening and it helped me feel like, OK, what I'm doing
matters. I know it does again, in the
(21:58):
four walls of our home. I know it, but it's just what
society the effect it has on youas you grow in this nation.
Yeah, Yeah, I like it. Nation works.
And you think about the message that I don't you cannot
understand that decision until you are a parent.
(22:18):
But I believe that like what youmodeled and what I modeled to
some degree is like, hey, like you make the decision what's
best for the family, even if it means it can be uncomfortable as
a as a man, right? I mean, that's what I think.
And I don't know how to explain I my 9 year old's asking me, are
you getting a job? And it hurts.
Let me tell you, you're just like, I don't know how to
(22:39):
explain this because I can't just go through what you did.
You know, Emory and my daughterswill be are you going to get a
job? Are you working?
Are you? And I'll be like, this is my
job. And Christina's like, well,
maybe you should list out everything you do.
And I'm like, I'm not, we shouldn't have to justify to a
nine year old, But when you're like you, when she grows up,
(23:00):
she'll see the sacrifices and why we made these decisions
where we're at as a family. And it'll mean more when she
gets older. But it's so funny the the hurt
that I feel when I get asked, are you going to get a job?
From your child Daddy, are you going to work?
Well underneath that it's like, are you lazy?
Like why don't you want to work?And it's like, how do you
(23:21):
explain that to A to a nine yearold?
You know, all right, well, this part I'm going to really enjoy.
Not everybody has I got to figure out how to say this
staying home dated. What do we say about this, Dave?
Not everybody has stated stayed home.
Dated we're we're putting words into the vernacular.
We are changing the world. Stating not not everybody has
(23:43):
been a stay at home dad before. So dude, let's talk a day in the
life. You could pick a day.
Maybe it's today. Maybe it's just some point in
time when you were absolutely just like in a chaotic season,
But like, what's this? What's a day in the life of Dave
Lepay? I won't pick today.
I'm going to try and generalize a little, but you know, you, you
(24:03):
try and plan. This goes back to our routine
and organization. This is what I'm going to
accomplish today. And then you get thrown for a
loop. You end up starting late.
You have to go food shopping. You're there longer because you
have kids and they want to help.So you're weighing every fruit
in the produce aisle because they want to use the scale.
And yes, very good, you did it. Now put it in the bag and put it
(24:26):
in the cart. And then they're hungry.
And then we're not going down this aisle.
And so anyway, you get home late, lunch is late, they're
cranky. So you're making lunch, then
you're like, wow, it's 2:00 already.
What did I do today? And I've been up since 5:30.
And that's the hardest part of this.
You know, we were talking about this episode and how, what do
you do? And it is a hard question.
(24:48):
What do you do all day? I wrote things like laundry and
our dryers. Currently broken so I can't even
do my job. I don't have the tools.
Give me why can't we have a dryer and then food prep?
You know, you try and you're notjust eating out all the time,
(25:08):
but you it's just so hard to explain how long it does take to
make each meal. And then the kids are hungry for
snack as soon as you're done cleaning up that meal.
So you're half of my life is just what's next to eat.
You're an airline attendant. You're basically a flight
attendant. Exactly, yes.
You're looking for that call like all the time.
(25:30):
Harrison's ready for a snack andyou're, you're just kind of
constantly moving, moving, moving.
And then all of a sudden it's bedtime.
And like for me, I coach the kids.
I, I've been saying this last couple months, I've been
actually busier than I've ever been when I was working
everything. I'm, it's funny when I'm talking
(25:51):
about it now, you're like, there's no other way to put it
except it is a job. So I guess I'm not really
answering what a day in the lifeis.
It does change with the seasons,but just you're constantly
behind. There are times though, where
you're, oh, wow, I have a littlebreather here.
But then that little voice in the back of your head, what are
you going to do now at this time?
What are you going to do now? What's next?
(26:12):
You're going to mow the lawn, You're going to dishes.
What do you do? What's the next thing?
Right, Yeah, you know what, dude?
I think another reason why that stay at home dad life was the
hardest ever for me is because you're you're constantly
reacting and needed and there's there's no really like a lot of
times there's no freedom unless you throw on ATV right.
(26:35):
And we can go into screen time, but at least when I was working
and and I am working in the corporate world now in addition
to the show. But when you're working, you,
even though sometimes you don't have freedom, right?
You have meetings, you have things you have to do, you have
deadlines, but you kind of have like micro freedoms in the
middle. Like if I want to turn my
attention to like this to followup to these emails and then come
(26:56):
back over here. Depending on your level of like
seniority, you can structure your day how you want.
But when you're a stay at home dad and their safety and their
whether they're fed and whether they're where they need to be,
you literally have no margin like you, you a lot of times
like you're just being pulled inall these different directions.
And I think that lack of agency where you're constantly needed,
(27:17):
that drains you so fast, so fast.
Funny you say that. Yeah, absolutely.
I you're constantly needed. I sit and try and do anything
creative, which is kind of what I'm trying to do now that I'm
home, want to pursue that creative side.
And you can't. You need to be in silence and
like focused. And then when you're just
(27:39):
constantly, what can I do next? Do you want to see my drawing?
Can I go outside? Oh, I got to put sunscreen on.
And then you just lose that focus.
Sit back down. Then they come back and I'm
hungry. I need water.
Can I go to this friend's house?You're although you're not even
with the kids, you are in a sense still needed, right?
(28:01):
And that lack of agency is a bigtrainer.
I would say that's a good way toput it.
Yeah, even if you like when you're responsible for them and
your partner's not there, your wife's not there, like there is
the you have to be aware, like the weights, like they're your
responsibility. So even if they're not in front
of you, like they're, they're onyour mind, you know?
Yeah, it's, it's unrelenting forsure.
(28:22):
Yeah, I'll tell you about a time, right.
I don't want to say it's fail. I don't know what the actual
word would be, but so I was, I was doing really good.
I set up a water slide outside, slip and slide so the kids had
two things they could do outside.
Now that requires time and effort.
So you're out there pounding thestakes into this water slide,
setting up the hose and slip andslide on the other side.
(28:46):
You're setting that up to next sunscreen.
The kids go through 2 bottles just to get them sunscreen and
then you set it all up. You're ready go.
It took 45 minutes to go. I go inside to get water.
I hear a knock on the garage door and I'm like, I just came
in. I open it.
(29:07):
It's my daughter, and she has blood going down her leg.
And I'm like, what happened? And she said, I don't know.
She said she doesn't know, but she tried the flip and slide.
And then she never. That was it the end of the day,
she couldn't do anything that I set up.
And then my son didn't want to play because he didn't have his
sister to play with him. All that set up.
(29:27):
Yeah. And sunscreen to have nothing
happen and it was and who do youtell who do I do I call you and
who do I just complain to I needto tell someone this or I'm
raging and. It's hard to let that go.
I remember similar, right? Like just to get 3 kids out of
(29:49):
the house, especially one of them at the time was, you know,
8 months old, right? So you got all the gear, you got
all the preparation time. When do they feed all that
stuff? But to get 3 kids to a park in
Northern Colorado, the amount offriggin work and unexpected
tantrums and meltdowns I don't want to wear.
I want to wear friggin, you know, winter boots in the middle
of summer. Like all the little fights that
(30:09):
you have to like get through andconquer just to get in the car
and you're just emotionally exhausted.
Like just getting in the car before the 10 minute ride to the
park. But all that to say, man, there
was this one time we were at Northern Colorado.
Picture it. And that we have so many parks
up here and they're massive. Like they're just like 3 stories
tall, loud kids running all over, parents all over.
(30:30):
And I pulled up to the park like10 minute drive of just like I
was just drained. The kids are all screaming about
something. And at this point I'm just so
fixated in my head. I probably should just turn the
car around, right? But again, you have in your
head, this is what we're doing. It's going to be great.
For some reason I thought like, we're all going to get to the
park and everything is going to be OK, you know, so we get to
the park and I'm just thinking, I'm not yelling at them, but I'm
(30:51):
yelling at them, right. So anyway, that's all context.
My, my middle child at the time,my man, she was just having a
lot of temper tantrums a lot. And especially in public, made
it really hard to go out in public.
He couldn't go out to eat. You never knew it was going to
set her off. And she just never recovered
from like the shoe fight to get to the park.
And I remember my oldest kid ranoff into the park, which already
(31:14):
under my mind is like, I always like to have eyes on her.
She's old enough, but I'd like to have eyes on her.
There's weirdos in the world. You never know.
You know, it's like we're at a park and so I have my my 8 month
old basically sleeping and I've got the like, you know, the dad
hold going right like this. And I'm really trying to get my
middle child to just like get out of her tantrum.
I'm trying everything that I know.
(31:35):
It's just not working. So she decides to scream at the
top of her lungs as I get her out of the car and hit me and
basically just hit me like in the face, which is a no, no.
And that's a discipline moment. But now I'm like, OK, we're not
going to the park, but I got to go find my other kid and I'm
holding a, a stroller and not stroller, whatever car seat.
(31:56):
And the one who hit me is threatening to like run away.
Right. So still context.
So what I what I did was I had to like hold the baby in one arm
and I slung my at the time 4 year old over my shoulder and
she's flailing like kicking me in the front because I had her
butt going that way, kicking me in the front, whacking me in the
back, bites me on the shoulder screaming.
(32:17):
And I'm walking through probably35 parents with this kid just
screaming at the top of their lungs.
And I'm just trying to like keepmy cool and look at the parents
with this face of like, okay. So much judgment.
Just looking at him and part of me is like, she's, she's so
intense that like if you would have told me like, hey, that
guy's kidnapping two kids right now.
(32:37):
Like I'm like, yeah, that's that's what that would look
like. This is mine.
It's mine. Yeah, these are mine.
And I'm like looking around the park trying to and then of
course, I finally see her and she's way up top in some monkey
bar and I'm trying to be like, get down there.
And I don't want to yell, bro. It was as far as like on a scale
one to 10. My stress levels in that moment
was like a 10. And it's 10:15 in the morning.
(33:01):
Going to say it's 9:00 AM. Bro, I've got a whole day and
like my emotional tank is just depleted and I'm supposed to go
let you know that this is a failed mission.
I got to bring them all back to the house.
I'm supposed to keep my cool. I'm supposed to address the
issues that happened with a coolhead because I don't want to
yell and be over disciplinarian.But then I've got this whole day
(33:23):
and there's no one that I can turn to and say, pick up the
phone and phone a friend and be like, hey, can you come over
here? Because I thought didn't even
cross my mind because that feelslike a failure and a submission.
But like, what I wanted to do was just go home and call my
wife who's working and be like, I need some help here.
Like come home and can you just give me 30 minutes to
(33:45):
recalibrate? Even if I just like, stared at a
wall. But most of that was to say,
Dave, it's like, I think, I hopethat paints a picture.
It's like when you get home at 10:30 and you bring those kids
back out of that car. I'm looking at 6:00 PM when my
wife gets home and just trying to, like, turn my whole attitude
around to try to have a good day.
But all's I'm feeling is defeat.I just feel like, man, this is
(34:07):
hard. And then you string that day
together day after day, week after week, month after month,
and you can see why it can become both the most beautiful
job in the world, but like, it'ssometimes, man, the most
stressful you can possibly have.Yeah.
Talk about your personal internal you're trying not to
(34:30):
show other parents. Oh, I got this under control
it's OK, I'm fine this is normal.
I got it. But right, you know you, you
were able to keep yourself but think about other people out
there and how they handle situations and the fact that you
can look internally and know youhave to like tell yourself calm
down. I've been there and it's just
(34:52):
what are what happens when parents don't do that?
And kudos to you for being able to recognize this is where I had
to grow in this moment. But you're looking at that 6:00
PM. What am I going to do now?
Like that was supposed to be at the park for two hours.
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(35:57):
today, right? Right now.
What do I do Think on my feet, you know?
And it's like, man, it's tough. And I think you touched on
something else that's so important to understand.
It's like in those rare moments when you're not needed or in
those rare moments where like the kids are like spoken for and
doing something or occupied. What we should be doing in those
moments is like recovering, restoring, reading, refilling
(36:21):
our tanks. But it's not as though stay at
home. Parents don't also have other
chores and other things to do. So what quickly happens is like,
all right, I got a free moment. You look around, be like, holy
shit, everything's under control.
And then the first thoughts are like this laundry list,
sometimes literally, but like this, unless you don't have a
dryer, but like you have this like list of things that like
(36:43):
you have to almost be really careful not to like just add
more on your plate. You have to like, resist
sometimes because you have otherstuff you have to do too, you
know? Oh.
Yeah. And then when you try and
explain, you know, you're like, I had a very busy day, this is
what I've done today. You're as you're doing it,
everything you explain plus the laundry list and you're like, I
can't wait to tell my wife when she gets home how much I did
(37:05):
today. And then when you tell her and
you're like, wow, that wasn't aslong as I thought it would be.
And I really now feel like I have to add things and you're
like, well, I, I took the dishwasher out of the big
container and I, I squirt it into the smaller container that
we use. See what's up?
(37:25):
You try and make things and you're.
I don't know how to you say it. And then if you don't get the
reaction you want, you start embellishing, just adding stuff.
So funny you say that. Like I look for that reaction,
like her being like, wow, you did so much today, Good for you.
And you're like, but I need more.
(37:46):
I need if there's no reaction. All right, well, here's
something else I did. I wept upstairs too.
You start throwing random stuff in there and at the same time we
bombed Iran the other day and that was stressful for me too
and I was trying to get. Trying to get through that while
I'm going to the park. I love it.
(38:06):
All right, ma'am. So let's talk about like some of
the greatest, maybe worst, most important lessons learned so far
in our journeys as stay at home dads or stads or whatever we're
going to call it. I'll start.
With you, you go into parenting and you say you know that we're
going to limit screen time. All we're going to do is read
(38:28):
screens are the devil. You want to keep it away,
poisoning your children, organicfood only all that you try and
list everything, but then you realize, wow, that takes effort
and we're only human. I remember our daughter was born
and I wasn't a stay at home parent yet, but it was my shift
to wake up with her. So you're like up at 5:30 in the
(38:49):
morning with a 4 month old and no TB and you had to learn how
painful that really is. And I remember just sitting
there like, wow, it is now 615 and I thought it was at least
11. And I was able to hand her off
to my wife. So you learn pretty quick that
(39:11):
it, you know, we still stuck to it.
We got better at it. But then you start to learn, OK,
it's OK, maybe to throw in some screen time, especially when
they get older. I'm, there's an article in the
Guardian that I was reading thatJen's ears are not reading to
their children. And it's kind of crazy to think
of a parent as being in that 97 to 2012 time frame, but they are
(39:35):
not reading as much with their children.
They say it's boring. That was the name of the
articles, a quote from Jen Ziers.
They think it's boring to read. Screen time is replacing
one-on-one quality interactions between parent and child.
And there's a limitation that's recommended that you limit non
educational screen time for children ages 2:00 to 5:00 to
(39:58):
about one hour per weekday and three on the week weekend.
So if I'm doing that math, you're still giving the kids
they're recommending? 11 hours a.
Week for two to five year olds, which I know we were, we didn't
do that, but that's a lot. Still to me, that's a lot and
it's in quotes non educational screen time.
(40:19):
So that kind of struck me is because we we we went right into
reading. I mean, heavily read to our
children and I'm not trying to pat my own back, but that was
something we stressed. That was one of our probably the
best things we've done. They read for fun.
Now our kids are nine and seven and they are reading for fun.
In this, they also reference that boys don't get read to from
(40:40):
zero to 2, not nearly as much asgirls.
And that's why girls are technically ahead of boys in
school and how they grow in education.
And it's just kind of tough whenyou're reading with your
children. It's one of the most beautiful,
fun things to see them go off ona journey.
They want to know more. Now my daughter's reading series
(41:01):
books where chapter books where she can like she's looking
forward to the next book. So those are things you're
excited about. Like it's what I do.
Yeah. And then just touching on the
reading role models. We've started to.
I'll sit and read my book and the kids will model after me and
read their book next to me. Now that anxiety of am I doing
(41:25):
enough? What else can I be doing around
the house? My wife comes down, she works
remotely. She'll come downstairs and see
us all reading. And my panic attack is she's
working hard and she sees us reading on the on the couch.
She has been she loves it First off, but the kids are learning
that it's OK to sit and read. You're being productive.
(41:47):
You're growing as a person by sitting there and being dad read
his book for longer than 10 seconds.
You're sitting there for 20-30 minutes and you're reading your
book. 1, you cut time off the day, but also two, you're
showing them that it's OK to be patient.
(42:07):
Just having them read for an extended period of time.
It teaches that patients and they can grow knowing that it's
OK to sit there for 32 minutes to an hour.
So that foundation you build andI'm I'm going to stress to any
Gen. Z or I come in contact with read
to your kids. Dude, I think that's beautiful,
man. I mean, if my wife walks
downstairs and I've been with the kids, we're either like
(42:28):
making fourths out of the couch and wrestling or doing something
crazy. What's what's something you
would tell me to I'm a stay at home dad.
I I need to know before I jump off the edge, what do I need to
know to make sure I'm doing a good job?
Your career doesn't matter. What is best for your children
(42:52):
matters most. You're making the right
decision. This will be hard.
You're worse at it than you think you are, but it's the most
important, beautiful thing that you could possibly do.
When it gets hard, don't drink alot of alcohol.
(43:14):
Don't self medicate when it getshard, say something.
Teamwork with your spouse matters so much.
It's so important to be open andcommunicate.
And look, if you ever want to jump back into working, you
could always do that too. But have fun.
It matters and you're going to crush it.
That's what I would say. I like it, Yeah.
(43:35):
How about you? I would say just be confident in
yourself. That's something I've struggled
with. So just be confident in your
decision. You are doing the right thing
and that's what you just hit on.They do matter the most.
It is the most beautiful thing. And think long term, big
picture, the effort you put in. Now build that foundation.
They'll just be better adults when they grow up.
(43:57):
Yeah, Amen. And I would also say invest in
home gym equipment, put it in your garage or your basement or
wherever, and take all your anger out on some weights, some
good old fashioned deadlifts. All right.
Hey, man, thank you, dude. This is great foreshadowing.
Could be some exciting stuff in the future around dadding and
other things as well. But Dave Lepay, thank you so
(44:20):
much for finally joining the Running Free podcast.
Thank you for having me, this was a great topic, a lot to talk
about. And on Dave Lepay, everybody,
see you next time. All right, everybody, that's the
show. Folks.
Thank you so much for tuning into this podcast and spending
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