October 8, 2024 • 32 mins
Dan Balcauski interviews Niclas Lilja, founder and CEO of Younium. They discuss Niclas's journey from founding Younium to leading it through rapid growth, including expanding into the U.S. market. Niclas shares transformative moments, the challenges in scaling, strategies for building trust among C-level executives, and the importance of having a focused Ideal Customer Profile (ICP). He also provides insights on pricing strategies in the SaaS industry, highlights the importance of staying active and realistic about pricing, and emphasizes the need for adequate sleep to maintain sharpness as a leader.
00:28 Meet Niclas Lilja: Founder and CEO of Younium
02:27 The Decision to Start Younium
04:22 Expanding to the U.S.: A Bold Move
06:20 What is Younium? Mission and Goals
09:47 Challenges and Strategies in Scaling Younium
16:44 Insights on Pricing and Packaging in SaaS
22:03 The Importance of Ideal Customer Profile (ICP)
27:30 Rapid Fire Closeout Questions
Guest Links
www.younium.com
https://www.younium.com/demo-request
https://www.linkedin.com/company/younium
https://www.linkedin.com/in/niclas-lilja/
niclas.lilja@younium.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dan Balcauski (00:20):
Hello, and welcome to SaaS Scaling Secrets,
the podcast that dives into thetrenches with the leaders of the
best scale up B2B SaaScompanies.
I'm your host, Dan Balcauski,founder of Product Tranquility.
Today, I have the privilege ofinterviewing Niclas Lilja.
Niclas is the founder and CEO ofYounium, a fast growing
subscription management andbilling platform for SaaS
companies.
With over 13 years of experienceand leadership roles at Medias,
(00:40):
a global SaaS for AP automation,Niclas took the bold step of
starting Younium and has sinceled the company through
impressive growth, including anexpansion to the U.
S.
market.
Join me as we explore Niclas'sunique journey from making the
courageous decision to startYounium, to fostering a culture
of trust, transparency, andteamwork, to moving his family
to the U.
S.
Let's dive in.
Welcome Niclas to SaaS ScalingSecrets.
Niclas Lilja (01:01):
Thanks, Dan.
Great to be here.
Dan Balcauski (01:03):
Yes.
This conversation has been along time coming.
Many beers over time at SaaStockhas finally landed us in this
position.
So super excited to finally beable to have this conversation
today.
I gave folks a little bit of.
Sense of you in the intro, butfor folks who aren't as well
equated with you as I am, canyou please just briefly
introduce yourself?
Tell us a little about yourjourney in the SaaS world.
Niclas Lilja (01:25):
Sure.
So I've been in the SaaS and,before that the software world
for 20 years now?
Previously worked at a companycalled Medius, in the accounts
payable automation space,closely related to financial
transactions, but more aroundsupplier invoices, I did a lot
of product and marketing rolesActually spent some time as well
(01:46):
being VP, people and performanceas well.
So I did a bit of HR but mainlydealing with contracts, metrics,
data, KPIs, and all that goodstuff.
And then in 2017 decided tostart Younium originally out of
Stockholm, Sweden currently inPhilly, as you said Yeah, what
is there to say, really?
Dan Balcauski (02:05):
Let's build on that.
I find that, we all havetransformative moments in our
life that make us see the worlddifferent.
I sometimes refer to it as asuperhero transformation moment.
What's your, I'm Peter Parker,I'm bit by the radioactive
spider.
I go to sleep, I wake up andeverything is different moment.
What was that for you in yourlife?
Niclas Lilja (02:27):
Maybe a bit cliche, but I think it actually
was, at least for me personally,that decision to start Younium
and take that leap.
I think up until then I'd been,doing quite a lot of different
things, learning a lot, butalways sort of having someone
else.
In front of me playing, safe,you might call it I think we can
(02:51):
all have our times of self doubtwhat am I capable of?
I think like doing that and itwasn't a single moment, but I
think that period has changed meand, was a very transformative
for me at least.
Course, other things the usualhaving kids there are a few
obvious ones,
Dan Balcauski (03:10):
If take us into that, maybe not a moment, but
into that time period aroundstarting Younium, like how do
you think your perspectiveworldview mindset changed during
that?
Niclas Lilja (03:22):
As I said, I think one of the things were really
like what you're capable of.
And, I had a lot of discussionsbefore starting Younium.
Some thought don't do that.
That space is full.
There are ERPs, there arefinancial applications, there
are CRMs, so you know, there areall these other players.
And then there were a few like,why don't you do that?
(03:44):
So I think, sort of, Betting on,that's doable that's one thing.
I also come from, like, quite along story in software all the
way from software beinginstalled and all the bad things
with installing software and thebusiness models then with
perpetual models and maintenancefees, I Love the idea of
(04:08):
providing a service and you haveto, deliver on that service
every day for every customer.
I think that does a lot of goodfor the business models as well
and how you act as a vendor.
So wanted to support that.
Dan Balcauski (04:22):
Maybe this is a little bit, after you started
Younium, but you made the verybold decision to move your
family to Philly.
Can you walk me through thatdecision making process and
like, how did you, how did thatcome about?
What was the impetus to finallymake it happen?
Niclas Lilja (04:40):
Oh, it was a long journey.
Definitely a business decisionto start with.
We were doing really good.
You had a good growth from theget go we decided on a very
niched ICP and a rapidgeographic growth.
We decided to go to the U.
S.
much earlier than most companiesand, most books would tell you.
I felt like, we have a goodorganization.
It might make more sense if Igo.
(05:02):
That was a bit of the businessrationale.
Also realizing, that typicallythese things take longer than
you would like to, and you haveto be patient.
So let's do it sooner ratherthan later.
When it comes to the discussionat home, planning a seed maybe
six months beforehand I think weshould have involved the kids a
bit more if they were to tellthe story, it would be, Yeah, we
(05:27):
decided to go and then we wereon a plane and then they dropped
us off at a school and we had todo this in a new language and it
was, hard.
That's probably their story.
So, but all in all, I think,very much a business decision,
but also, of course a familyadventure.
Seeing that things can work abit different if you are
elsewhere.
It can be quite a mind opener,both for kids and adults.
(05:51):
Hopefully, I usually say thatmaybe when they are 30, maybe
they will say thanks orsomething.
let's see.
Dan Balcauski (05:58):
I'm sure you're over dramatizing that, but I was
going to say those six months isnot a huge amount of lead time
for let's pick up and moveacross the ocean.
So, this is fascinating.
We have been,
Niclas Lilja (06:09):
I an image of the whole family moving and it was
us and it was like eightsuitcases.
That was it.
So that's the full move.
So maybe it was almost packagedlike a vacation trip.
Dan Balcauski (06:20):
We've been circling around this discussion
of Younium for those who, aren'tfamiliar with Younium in the
audience tell us a little bitabout, what inspired you to
start it?
What is Younium sort of missionand goal for Reason for
Existence today?
Niclas Lilja (06:35):
So, it was really an experience back at Medias
where we transitioned from thatold perpetual model into a
subscription model, we did thewhole transition of an existing
customer base.
We rewrote the whole software,we didn't take care of, managing
the contracts the subscriptionsand the billing that led to us
having quite a few people onboard.
I also looked through the marketand felt like, they are all
(06:58):
about, these perfect SaaScompanies who are doing
everything right.
They don't have any legacy and,always get paid.
It was perfect for me and I wasused to, a bit more discussions.
Maybe you have to Change,sometimes the contracts, maybe
you have to credit something,negotiate and that was the world
I was in, it was also partners,etc.
(07:18):
So I felt like let's see if wecan do something in this space
and be very clear on, B to Bwith more advanced
subscriptions, not the sort of ecommerce kind of, online highly
standardized, quick checkoutkind of subscriptions.
But the world I came from I feltlike there were really European
(07:40):
alternatives that played intothe picture as well.
initially I also had an ideathat maybe this could be a whole
ERP suite luckily Changed thatquite quickly But basically on
the thesis of we should notdecide what the customer should
do.
We should be a vehicle for themto, put whatever contract they
(08:01):
have, make sure that becomesautomated and allow them to
Develop, optimize, and expandtheir business and how they do
business.
We should not be in the way.
We should not dictate you shoulddo it like this.
You need to have onesubscription with one plan and
nothing else or whatever it is.
But try to be very flexible inthat sense, but still making a
(08:21):
product.
Not a, not a big consultancyproject.
So that was sort of, startingout.
We were also quite early intoniching down or making it very
niched.
We wanted to be really good atsomething rather than somewhat
good at a lot of things.
Many in the business were tryingto attract a lot of different
(08:45):
segments, a lot of differentindustries, a lot of different
models.
And we said, Hey, we just wantto go with SaaS and software
because that's what we wanted todo.
Love, that's our history, andyou could probably find
different industries, but Ithink that thing we did just
there deciding, let's go verypointy has been quite
(09:06):
instrumental in how we builtYounium, and for the successes
we've had.
Dan Balcauski (09:10):
And you laid out a couple of breadcrumbs of
things I want to touch on, but,just so folks are following
along at home.
Younium in the subscriptionmanagement and billing space,
really saw this opportunity insome of the more complex pricing
and packaging scenarios that arenon existent or very rare in the
industry.
(09:30):
A lot of these moretransactional B to C software or
other services.
You think like, yeah, I swipe mycredit card for Netflix or
Spotify or whatever, right?
There, there's a lot of sort ofhighly transactional, very all
the, all customers generallylook alike.
There's not custom, contracts ornegotiations that need to
happen.
And so, playing in that space,then you lay down some other
(09:50):
interesting breadcrumbs I wantto touch on a bit in terms of
your ICP and your journey thereYou look at every founder faces
challenges, along the way, likeyou share a particularly
difficult obstacle you'veovercome in scaling Younium to
its current stage?
Niclas Lilja (10:06):
Yeah, sure.
There's been a few of those.
I mean, getting the firstcustomers, when you look back at
it, it's like, how did that comeabout with the product?
It's like, that shouldn't bepossible moving a bit further
down the line, I think being asmall company and establishing
trust.
With customers and C levelexecutives in a world of, big
(10:27):
brands like, Salesforce,HubSpot, NetSuite, etc.
They are really big.
In all honesty, we're not asbig, not yet anyways.
But that's our landscape.
That's where we fit in.
We sit in between these systems.
We orchestrate a lot of thesubscription and billing
mechanics.
(10:47):
That, requires us to work a loton knowledge and trust.
It's easy to be less trusted ifyou don't have that brand.
So tying back to the ICP wedecided to be very niched, not
only for product purposes, butalso for how we train, develop
our, salespeople, do marketingand all the other stuff as well.
(11:11):
Cause we have to, show how itcan be done all the way from the
first touch point up until beingcustomer and from then on.
I think we spend a lot of timeon knowledge and training.
And I think it served us thatwe've been quite niched in that
and we've been able to do it Youhave to sort of play to your
(11:31):
advantage somehow, right?
Dan Balcauski (11:32):
I want to dig a little bit on that.
yOu mentioned, you had toestablish trust with, C level
execs in a market dominated bymuch larger incumbents.
Can you share any specificstrategies or approaches that
have been particularly effectivein winning over those high level
decision makers?
Niclas Lilja (11:52):
One thing is, Don't play the other's game play
your own game.
What does that mean?
We typically have been much moredirective Sometimes you win by
that, sometimes you lose, butfor us it's been a way of like,
okay, maybe we don't have tenmeetings, maybe we don't come,
ten people to a meeting, cause,we don't do that, we do We've
(12:12):
made it much more efficient,much more tighter.
Maybe we don't have the biggest,greatest words and all the
stories and all the user cases,but we've been quite quick at,
Hey, we understand this is yourproblem.
This is our solution.
We can be quick about it.
As long as what you presentaligns well with what you, What
(12:32):
the audience perceives that youcan deliver, quite good.
I think it's when, there is adifference between what they
believe and what you say.
I mean, that's the, that's whereit starts getting difficult,
right?
And problematic.
Staying very true to our ICPbeing very true to what we do,
but also I think we do have alot of knowledge.
(12:56):
We do have quite, especiallyaround these systems, around
doing, integrations,understanding that whole playing
field.
We don't sit only doingsubscription management and
billing.
We typically have to talk abouthow does this work in the CRM,
in the sales process, and we'requite fluent talking about that.
(13:16):
We can talk about, revenuerecognition, how you do a
monthly close, what's thereconciliation taxes, et cetera,
in the financial system.
We can talk about provisioningand how you measure usage and
how you do this from more of aproduct standpoint and how you
automate that, beyond just thissort of core scope of Younium,
so staying with RICP andknowledge,
Dan Balcauski (13:38):
So you said a couple of things.
Staying focused on the ICP, Iheard a bit of, responsiveness
and I can understand how thatcan favor the smaller player
because the big folks are, abureaucracy and so they're not
going to be able to, respond.
They've got ways of doing thingsand, they're juggling a bunch of
other things.
You can win by just beingresponsive.
You said direct.
(13:58):
I wanted to unpack that a littlebit.
It sounded like you meantresponsive, but I wasn't quite
sure if there was something elseunderneath the surface of
direct.
Is that part of your salesprocess, you guys felt like
you're more direct?
Unpack that a little bit for me.
Niclas Lilja (14:12):
I think we're quite practical and the people
doing sales with Younium areknowledgeable, not only on sales
process, but also on the domainand how it's done.
So if we're talking about likethe phase before becoming
customer, I think that is oneway, you can have a quicker path
to getting to some sort of, thisis how it can be done.
(14:35):
Instead of having one meeting,another meeting, discussing a
bit more, a third meeting, maybewe can bring in someone who
knows something about, thisparticular problem, and then
another follow up.
And, what you said aroundbureaucracy is definitely one
thing.
But also I think when it comesto being direct, we typically
walk away from this if we don'tthink we're going to be good at
(14:57):
it, if you're running, a B to Cbusiness, we're going to tell
you that, there are otheroptions that are better.
We can name them, give them awayand we will walk out.
The same goes for, B to small Bwhere it's very B to C use case
oriented.
And there are, no real reasonswhy we would be better.
(15:17):
We typically leave as well.
So I guess that's also a way ofbeing direct and not wasting
anyone's time
Dan Balcauski (15:23):
so I heard, cause you've mentioned knowledge a few
times.
It sounds like those two thingsare coming together of knowledge
and sort of the directness.
Because what that brought tomind for me was the memory I've
had all too often, which is I'mlooking to buy some software.
There's no public pricing.
There's a chat box.
(15:43):
It says, talk to a productexpert.
So I say, okay, this is what I'minterested in.
They're like, you need to get ona call.
Then I get on a call with thatperson.
They start talking about,Product Overview.
And I'm like, that's not whatI'm interested in this specific
thing.
They're like, Oh, actually, Idon't know anything about that
thing or how it's priced.
You need to now have anothercall.
And so now I'm a web visit, achat bot interaction and two
(16:06):
phone calls deep before I getthe basic answers that hopefully
were on your website to beginwith.
Is that sort of the pictureyou're trying to paint of like
avoiding all those shenanigans?
Niclas Lilja (16:16):
Yeah, definitely.
I think that is one point but itcould also be, a follow up to
that is if you get good answersto your questions you could
probably also be fine with, ifyou want to dig deeper, let's
move this from the chat bot and,maybe have a meeting about it
and, see, what you want more.
And then you have another setof, Things I definitely write
and I think that goes in sort ofevery step in the process right?
Dan Balcauski (16:39):
And look many companies.
Struggle with, pricing andpackaging.
It's something that's near anddear to my heart and Younium
plays, in the subscriptionmanagement and billing space.
I'm curious your opinion.
What do you see most B to B SaaScompanies getting wrong with
pricing and packaging?
Niclas Lilja (16:55):
If it had to be one answer I think Being passive
and inactive is probably theworst thing
Dan Balcauski (17:06):
not doing anything
Niclas Lilja (17:07):
yeah.
I think we can all agree thatthe world changes, we changes,
you have to also change yourpricing and stay active and work
with it.
I think the other part isaligning with where you're at on
your customer journey.
It's really different if you'rein the early phase, you need to
get customers in, or, if youstarted to scale or if you're
(17:28):
going to set up your secondrevenue stream, or if you're
going to your seventh country,they all have different
characteristics, right?
So I think being very realisticabout that, what is the most
important, right?
Are we running a very, like, ifwe're going to make just a few
deals a year, the pricing oneach and every deal is super,
(17:51):
super important?
Whereas if we do just a highvolume of these, standardization
will be, more important and thenwe're probably somewhere in the
middle.
But I think having thatdiscussion and figuring out what
makes the most sense for uswhere we're at right now and I
don't hear that too often.
It's quite quickly into like.
(18:15):
Hey, it looks like everyone elseis doing some sort of usage
based pricing.
Let's do that.
Okay.
Why?
I mean, I think answering why isreally important as well.
Dan Balcauski (18:29):
Fair.
Niclas Lilja (18:29):
continue on this, then you know, like, two sides
to to, to a coin, I guess, likeone is getting it way too
complicated.
But on the other hand, I alsosometimes feel like, This
pricing is too simple in thesense that it's maybe it's just
three plans with a fixed priceor it's just seat based there
are so many opportunities to,carve out a few things handle
(18:52):
them separately or makedifferent plans I think you're
at least getting into more ofthe details.
At least for myself, I like tothink, what is the price point?
Regardless of the mechanics,what is the reasonable price
point for the value we'reproviding, if you can get that a
bit right, then it opens up andyou can package it in different
(19:15):
ways.
You can have differentstrategies.
Do you want like a big, Go bigearly or do you want to land and
expand?
Do you want it to be morerecurring or pay as you go?
Or, different variants of that.
Dan Balcauski (19:26):
I'm curious about this because, obviously, so, so
you and EM, you're sitting ontop of a bunch of data from
different SaaS companies usingyour subscription management
billing service, from the, kindof customers you see, has that
taught you anything about likehow we should trade off between.
(19:47):
Flexibility with sort of desirefor simplicity or clarity in a
pricing model.
Are there lessons you've learnedby seeing companies with
different models and being,being out there successfully
sort of, running revenuethrough, through Younium system,
like, where you're like, maybeyou onboard them as a customer
and you're like, man, you guyshave a really complicated model.
This is not, I can't imaginethis work well for you.
(20:08):
And then you see their billingdata come through.
You're like, yeah, it doesn'tlook like it's working so well.
How do you think about thattrade off?
Niclas Lilja (20:14):
I really do believe there is no silver
bullet in this.
But I think sometimes we seethings that are just not
logical.
It's difficult, even if youdissect it, how to calculate
this but I do think that, Manycompanies still like to have a
big portion of recurring fees,topped with, Some usage fees.
(20:36):
That's one thing that I see andthey seem to be doing pretty
good if you're going all the wayon pay as you go You have to get
your cash flow elsewhere, right?
We're being blunt about it.
So, having a mix of that, theyseem to be doing really well.
And maybe it gives some sort of,security to their business as
(20:58):
well.
Having a portion being quitesecure and recovering and then
topping it off.
Dan Balcauski (21:03):
I think we've seen a lot of, volatility in the
pure pay as you go companies interms of their revenue.
They were faster on the way upand then faster on the way down.
And that's a whip saw thatlooks, if you only saw that
first part of the curve, you'relike, man, those numbers look
really good.
And then as soon as the breaks.
Happen on the economy.
It goes the other way reallyfast and can really screw up
(21:27):
your planning.
Niclas Lilja (21:29):
yeah, I think so and I mean, I guess if you're
huge and having like, likereally high volume of
transactions, maybe you sort ofget that magic of big numbers
that it becomes almost.
Secure, almost recovering.
But I think most companiesdon't, right?
(21:50):
Most companies are not thatenormously big that they have
those vast, like, numbers ofusage transactions.
So, so I think yeah absolutelyright.
Dan Balcauski (22:03):
I wanted to ask, go back to something we were
talking about earlier in theconversation where you were
talking about narrowing yourfocus on an ICP.
I think this is a critical issuefor a lot of executive teams.
Founders in general worry aboutnarrowing their focus, too much,
how did you go about yourdetermining who the, your ideal
(22:24):
customers were when you firststarted Younium?
And has that changed over time?
Niclas Lilja (22:29):
I think we've improved on it throughout the
journey, definitely.
And I think what has happened isthat we've gotten better.
I would say more and moreniched, the bigger we get, which
is a bit counterintuitive,right?
(22:49):
But we also had a phase, in thebeginning, when you're looking
for your first customers, youdon't really know, you don't
know what will work.
I mean, you don't have anyproof.
So we definitely had a bit of awider scope, but I also think we
realized like, We know thisindustry is quite open minded.
(23:10):
It's an industry where you don'thave, ERP systems that are 70
years old and, carry a lot ofconsultancy and claims to have
done everything before.
So accessible in that sense.
But also quite global, right?
And I think if you talk to aSaaS company somewhere in Europe
or somewhere in South America orsomewhere in North America, they
(23:34):
typically, read the same books.
They have the same heroes.
They all listen to SaaS ScalingSecrets and other podcasts,
right?
They allowed us to, have successwith being, very pointy, but for
instance, we were quite long indiscussions with a big 100 plus
year old company, more towardsthe manufacturing industry,
(23:58):
wanted to go into servitization.
We've been through legal and ITand, all the procedures are a
really big deal.
It looked really nice.
We're about to sign and thenCOVID hit.
And like all big companies,Pulled on the handles, like no
more purchases, no morespending, no more investments,
(24:18):
no more.
So it didn't happen and, quitehappy about that today, because
I think like if you get thosebig, shiny, deals too early, and
they are a bit sort of outsideyour scope, either you have to
be really good at pivoting inthat direction really fast.
Or you're gonna you're gonnaslow down for some time until
(24:41):
you get that going and can sortof get back onto your original
trajectory.
A bit of luck, I guess, witheverything.
Dan Balcauski (24:47):
I want to go back to something you said at the
beginning of your answer, whichwas, as you've grown, your ICP
has got more pointy it sounds alittle counterintuitive because,
the average practice is, as wegrow.
We need to expand who we'reserving because that's where
we're going to get better growthopportunities.
(25:08):
So kind of talk to me a littlebit about like, what was that,
what did that look like for youas you were growing, but then
also getting more focused wasthere a tension of like, if we
go over here, we can grow fasterby serving these other
customers, how did you thinkthrough that?
Niclas Lilja (25:22):
We Typically do strategic planning for, three
years at a time.
A reasonable amount of planningthat is, but doing that we, this
one year we went through likedifferent growth opportunities
and different sort of paths,very general paths of growth.
And, one would be, maybe go intoa few other industries.
(25:42):
Like adjacent industries.
All companies are becomingsoftware companies anyway, so
why don't we serve all of them,that could be one track Or
maybe, maybe we can expand ourproduct offering a bit Maybe we
don't have to do only what wedo.
We had a few differentdiscussions the third one was
Geography partly because we'ddone it before in previous
(26:04):
companies and knew what thatmeant in terms of regulations,
laws and, financial practices,et cetera.
But also because, back to thatsame, it becomes almost a bit
boring, but that we felt like wewant to be really good at
something.
And they seem to be the bestpath for that.
So we have, a path that isgrowing where we can do much
(26:30):
more than today.
There's really no problem.
And I'm sure at some point we'llopen up other growth paths, but
Not doing all at once.
I'm pretty sure we would havedone worse Trying to do
everything at once I'm surethere are other companies good
at that, but I'm not so we tryto be simple, let's just go with
(26:52):
this SaaS software, geographicexpansion, let's figure this
out, that has also led us to,do, gain a lot of knowledge, but
also do a lot of, like, aConnectors with other CRM
systems, with financialpackages, with different ways of
both paying and distributinginvoices, handling tax, et
(27:13):
cetera, so we're pretty wellcovered with that.
And, despite being our size,customers in 16 countries with
different rule sets.
That has been, of course,there's work to this as well,
but we felt pretty comfortable.
With that,
Dan Balcauski (27:26):
Niclas, I could talk to you all day, but we are
running out of time.
I wanted to wrap up ourconversation today with a few
rapid fire closeout questions.
Are you ready?
Niclas Lilja (27:37):
Sure, shoot.
Dan Balcauski (27:39):
NNiclas how do you define success?
Niclas Lilja (27:43):
On one hand being a bit uncomfortable, like,
starting a new company.
On the other hand, I also thinkthat sometimes I feel
uncomfortable.
Things being calm and quietaround me and I guess that is
also a bit of success.
So maybe I feel like having,those ups and downs on my heart
(28:06):
rate monitor.
Dan Balcauski (28:06):
Is some heart rate variability and
uncomfortable calm probablygoing between those two on a
daily basis.
I get that.
Niclas Lilja (28:13):
I
Dan Balcauski (28:15):
When you think about all the spectacular people
you've had a chance to workwith, learn from, is there
anyone that pops to mind, has adisproportionate effect on the
way that you think about runningor building companies?
Niclas Lilja (28:28):
I have a few from my former company Medias.
I think I learned a lot there, Ilooked at other people and how
they did things and I learned.
Paranodling taught me grit andthere's always a solution to the
most complicated problems.
Mika Limblom was another onedoing sales, competitiveness in
business.
(28:49):
Being very structured andaccountable.
I had others like TorbjörnAlfman, very positive energy,
always overcomes, correctnessand perfect strategy.
Pontus Björnsson Per Åkerberg,there are a few others as well.
Also a few at Younium.
I feel like I hijacked thatbullet.
(29:09):
Finally, I get to thank a lot
Dan Balcauski (29:10):
I'll have to get those names from you over email
because I have no idea how tospell any of those names you
just mentioned, but I'm surethey're all fantastic people.
Look, being a CEO and foundercould pull you in a lot of
different directions.
Are there any habits that you'vecultivated to help you stay on
the top of your game,intellectually, emotionally,
physically?
Niclas Lilja (29:31):
I think I spent 20 years trying to work a lot and
sleep little.
That was bad.
It worked for a while.
I tried to sleep a lot.
I at least, get my eight hours.
I think that really helps mebecause nowadays it feels like
the problems that I'm facing arenot really.
(29:54):
Won over by brute force.
It's more like being a bit sharpand awake and Being in the right
mindset.
At least right now.
I think Sleeping is a goodthing.
Dan Balcauski (30:04):
Your eight hours.
If you're constantly deprivingyourself of sleep, you're also
potentially in this mindsetwhere you think you're going to
be out of the woods soon becausethe human body, can only
maintain that for so long.
So knowing that it's going to beyears, not months that you have
to feed the machine
Niclas Lilja (30:23):
I think If you wanna Be, a leader.
People typically want theirleaders to be present and aware
and awake, right?
Dan Balcauski (30:35):
hopefully.
Niclas Lilja (30:36):
serves a purpose in that way as well.
Dan Balcauski (30:38):
If I gave you a billboard and you could put
anything on it for advice forother B to B SaaS CEOs trying to
scale their companies, whatwould you put on it?
What advice would you give them?
Niclas Lilja (30:49):
It would have to be super clear on your ideal
customer profile And you candraw a lot of things from that.
A lot of other things fall intoplace.
Don't fall into the trap of,this great market.
Try to really focus on how toserve someone in the best
possible way.
(31:09):
And, I think you will sort theother things out along the way.
Dan Balcauski (31:13):
Be clear on your ideal customer profile.
Niclas, this has been fantastic.
If our listeners want to connectwith you, learn more about
Younium, how can they do that?
Niclas Lilja (31:23):
On the web, www.
Youniumium.
com or LinkedIn, our mainchannels.
So you'll find Younium onLinkedIn and you'll also find
me.
There's quite a few events outthere.
Typically they start with SaaSsomething.
And we're often there in ourpink caps, looking something
like this.
Dan Balcauski (31:42):
I gotta say,
Niclas Lilja (31:43):
they are pink.
Dan Balcauski (31:44):
If you do see Younium at a event.
I highly recommend stopping bythe booth cause they have the
best booth swag of any companyI've seen.
I've got a couple of yourstickers still hanging around
here.
I will definitely put thoselinks in the show notes for
listeners.
Everyone that wraps up thisepisode of SaaS Scaling Secrets.
Thank you to Niclas for sharinghis journey insights and
(32:04):
valuable tips for our listeners.
If you found this conversationas enlightening as I did,
remember, subscribe so you don'tmiss out on future episodes.
Hello, and welcome to SaaS Scaling Secrets,
the podcast that dives into thetrenches with the leaders of the
best scale up B2B SaaScompanies.
I'm your host, Dan Balcauski,founder of Product Tranquility.
Today, I have the privilege ofinterviewing Niclas Lilja.
Niclas is the founder and CEO ofYounium, a fast growing
subscription management andbilling platform for SaaS
companies.
With over 13 years of experienceand leadership roles at Medias,
(00:40):
a global SaaS for AP automation,Niclas took the bold step of
starting Younium and has sinceled the company through
impressive growth, including anexpansion to the U.
S.
market.
Join me as we explore Niclas'sunique journey from making the
courageous decision to startYounium, to fostering a culture
of trust, transparency, andteamwork, to moving his family
to the U.
S.
Let's dive in.
Welcome Niclas to SaaS ScalingSecrets.
Niclas Lilja (01:01):
Thanks, Dan.
Great to be here.
Dan Balcauski (01:03):
Yes.
This conversation has been along time coming.
Many beers over time at SaaStockhas finally landed us in this
position.
So super excited to finally beable to have this conversation
today.
I gave folks a little bit of.
Sense of you in the intro, butfor folks who aren't as well
equated with you as I am, canyou please just briefly
introduce yourself?
Tell us a little about yourjourney in the SaaS world.
Niclas Lilja (01:25):
Sure.
So I've been in the SaaS and,before that the software world
for 20 years now?
Previously worked at a companycalled Medius, in the accounts
payable automation space,closely related to financial
transactions, but more aroundsupplier invoices, I did a lot
of product and marketing rolesActually spent some time as well
(01:46):
being VP, people and performanceas well.
So I did a bit of HR but mainlydealing with contracts, metrics,
data, KPIs, and all that goodstuff.
And then in 2017 decided tostart Younium originally out of
Stockholm, Sweden currently inPhilly, as you said Yeah, what
is there to say, really?
Dan Balcauski (02:05):
Let's build on that.
I find that, we all havetransformative moments in our
life that make us see the worlddifferent.
I sometimes refer to it as asuperhero transformation moment.
What's your, I'm Peter Parker,I'm bit by the radioactive
spider.
I go to sleep, I wake up andeverything is different moment.
What was that for you in yourlife?
Niclas Lilja (02:27):
Maybe a bit cliche, but I think it actually
was, at least for me personally,that decision to start Younium
and take that leap.
I think up until then I'd been,doing quite a lot of different
things, learning a lot, butalways sort of having someone
else.
In front of me playing, safe,you might call it I think we can
(02:51):
all have our times of self doubtwhat am I capable of?
I think like doing that and itwasn't a single moment, but I
think that period has changed meand, was a very transformative
for me at least.
Course, other things the usualhaving kids there are a few
obvious ones,
Dan Balcauski (03:10):
If take us into that, maybe not a moment, but
into that time period aroundstarting Younium, like how do
you think your perspectiveworldview mindset changed during
that?
Niclas Lilja (03:22):
As I said, I think one of the things were really
like what you're capable of.
And, I had a lot of discussionsbefore starting Younium.
Some thought don't do that.
That space is full.
There are ERPs, there arefinancial applications, there
are CRMs, so you know, there areall these other players.
And then there were a few like,why don't you do that?
(03:44):
So I think, sort of, Betting on,that's doable that's one thing.
I also come from, like, quite along story in software all the
way from software beinginstalled and all the bad things
with installing software and thebusiness models then with
perpetual models and maintenancefees, I Love the idea of
(04:08):
providing a service and you haveto, deliver on that service
every day for every customer.
I think that does a lot of goodfor the business models as well
and how you act as a vendor.
So wanted to support that.
Dan Balcauski (04:22):
Maybe this is a little bit, after you started
Younium, but you made the verybold decision to move your
family to Philly.
Can you walk me through thatdecision making process and
like, how did you, how did thatcome about?
What was the impetus to finallymake it happen?
Niclas Lilja (04:40):
Oh, it was a long journey.
Definitely a business decisionto start with.
We were doing really good.
You had a good growth from theget go we decided on a very
niched ICP and a rapidgeographic growth.
We decided to go to the U.
S.
much earlier than most companiesand, most books would tell you.
I felt like, we have a goodorganization.
It might make more sense if Igo.
(05:02):
That was a bit of the businessrationale.
Also realizing, that typicallythese things take longer than
you would like to, and you haveto be patient.
So let's do it sooner ratherthan later.
When it comes to the discussionat home, planning a seed maybe
six months beforehand I think weshould have involved the kids a
bit more if they were to tellthe story, it would be, Yeah, we
(05:27):
decided to go and then we wereon a plane and then they dropped
us off at a school and we had todo this in a new language and it
was, hard.
That's probably their story.
So, but all in all, I think,very much a business decision,
but also, of course a familyadventure.
Seeing that things can work abit different if you are
elsewhere.
It can be quite a mind opener,both for kids and adults.
(05:51):
Hopefully, I usually say thatmaybe when they are 30, maybe
they will say thanks orsomething.
let's see.
Dan Balcauski (05:58):
I'm sure you're over dramatizing that, but I was
going to say those six months isnot a huge amount of lead time
for let's pick up and moveacross the ocean.
So, this is fascinating.
We have been,
Niclas Lilja (06:09):
I an image of the whole family moving and it was
us and it was like eightsuitcases.
That was it.
So that's the full move.
So maybe it was almost packagedlike a vacation trip.
Dan Balcauski (06:20):
We've been circling around this discussion
of Younium for those who, aren'tfamiliar with Younium in the
audience tell us a little bitabout, what inspired you to
start it?
What is Younium sort of missionand goal for Reason for
Existence today?
Niclas Lilja (06:35):
So, it was really an experience back at Medias
where we transitioned from thatold perpetual model into a
subscription model, we did thewhole transition of an existing
customer base.
We rewrote the whole software,we didn't take care of, managing
the contracts the subscriptionsand the billing that led to us
having quite a few people onboard.
I also looked through the marketand felt like, they are all
(06:58):
about, these perfect SaaScompanies who are doing
everything right.
They don't have any legacy and,always get paid.
It was perfect for me and I wasused to, a bit more discussions.
Maybe you have to Change,sometimes the contracts, maybe
you have to credit something,negotiate and that was the world
I was in, it was also partners,etc.
(07:18):
So I felt like let's see if wecan do something in this space
and be very clear on, B to Bwith more advanced
subscriptions, not the sort of ecommerce kind of, online highly
standardized, quick checkoutkind of subscriptions.
But the world I came from I feltlike there were really European
(07:40):
alternatives that played intothe picture as well.
initially I also had an ideathat maybe this could be a whole
ERP suite luckily Changed thatquite quickly But basically on
the thesis of we should notdecide what the customer should
do.
We should be a vehicle for themto, put whatever contract they
(08:01):
have, make sure that becomesautomated and allow them to
Develop, optimize, and expandtheir business and how they do
business.
We should not be in the way.
We should not dictate you shoulddo it like this.
You need to have onesubscription with one plan and
nothing else or whatever it is.
But try to be very flexible inthat sense, but still making a
(08:21):
product.
Not a, not a big consultancyproject.
So that was sort of, startingout.
We were also quite early intoniching down or making it very
niched.
We wanted to be really good atsomething rather than somewhat
good at a lot of things.
Many in the business were tryingto attract a lot of different
(08:45):
segments, a lot of differentindustries, a lot of different
models.
And we said, Hey, we just wantto go with SaaS and software
because that's what we wanted todo.
Love, that's our history, andyou could probably find
different industries, but Ithink that thing we did just
there deciding, let's go verypointy has been quite
(09:06):
instrumental in how we builtYounium, and for the successes
we've had.
Dan Balcauski (09:10):
And you laid out a couple of breadcrumbs of
things I want to touch on, but,just so folks are following
along at home.
Younium in the subscriptionmanagement and billing space,
really saw this opportunity insome of the more complex pricing
and packaging scenarios that arenon existent or very rare in the
industry.
(09:30):
A lot of these moretransactional B to C software or
other services.
You think like, yeah, I swipe mycredit card for Netflix or
Spotify or whatever, right?
There, there's a lot of sort ofhighly transactional, very all
the, all customers generallylook alike.
There's not custom, contracts ornegotiations that need to
happen.
And so, playing in that space,then you lay down some other
(09:50):
interesting breadcrumbs I wantto touch on a bit in terms of
your ICP and your journey thereYou look at every founder faces
challenges, along the way, likeyou share a particularly
difficult obstacle you'veovercome in scaling Younium to
its current stage?
Niclas Lilja (10:06):
Yeah, sure.
There's been a few of those.
I mean, getting the firstcustomers, when you look back at
it, it's like, how did that comeabout with the product?
It's like, that shouldn't bepossible moving a bit further
down the line, I think being asmall company and establishing
trust.
With customers and C levelexecutives in a world of, big
(10:27):
brands like, Salesforce,HubSpot, NetSuite, etc.
They are really big.
In all honesty, we're not asbig, not yet anyways.
But that's our landscape.
That's where we fit in.
We sit in between these systems.
We orchestrate a lot of thesubscription and billing
mechanics.
(10:47):
That, requires us to work a loton knowledge and trust.
It's easy to be less trusted ifyou don't have that brand.
So tying back to the ICP wedecided to be very niched, not
only for product purposes, butalso for how we train, develop
our, salespeople, do marketingand all the other stuff as well.
(11:11):
Cause we have to, show how itcan be done all the way from the
first touch point up until beingcustomer and from then on.
I think we spend a lot of timeon knowledge and training.
And I think it served us thatwe've been quite niched in that
and we've been able to do it Youhave to sort of play to your
(11:31):
advantage somehow, right?
Dan Balcauski (11:32):
I want to dig a little bit on that.
yOu mentioned, you had toestablish trust with, C level
execs in a market dominated bymuch larger incumbents.
Can you share any specificstrategies or approaches that
have been particularly effectivein winning over those high level
decision makers?
Niclas Lilja (11:52):
One thing is, Don't play the other's game play
your own game.
What does that mean?
We typically have been much moredirective Sometimes you win by
that, sometimes you lose, butfor us it's been a way of like,
okay, maybe we don't have tenmeetings, maybe we don't come,
ten people to a meeting, cause,we don't do that, we do We've
(12:12):
made it much more efficient,much more tighter.
Maybe we don't have the biggest,greatest words and all the
stories and all the user cases,but we've been quite quick at,
Hey, we understand this is yourproblem.
This is our solution.
We can be quick about it.
As long as what you presentaligns well with what you, What
(12:32):
the audience perceives that youcan deliver, quite good.
I think it's when, there is adifference between what they
believe and what you say.
I mean, that's the, that's whereit starts getting difficult,
right?
And problematic.
Staying very true to our ICPbeing very true to what we do,
but also I think we do have alot of knowledge.
(12:56):
We do have quite, especiallyaround these systems, around
doing, integrations,understanding that whole playing
field.
We don't sit only doingsubscription management and
billing.
We typically have to talk abouthow does this work in the CRM,
in the sales process, and we'requite fluent talking about that.
(13:16):
We can talk about, revenuerecognition, how you do a
monthly close, what's thereconciliation taxes, et cetera,
in the financial system.
We can talk about provisioningand how you measure usage and
how you do this from more of aproduct standpoint and how you
automate that, beyond just thissort of core scope of Younium,
so staying with RICP andknowledge,
Dan Balcauski (13:38):
So you said a couple of things.
Staying focused on the ICP, Iheard a bit of, responsiveness
and I can understand how thatcan favor the smaller player
because the big folks are, abureaucracy and so they're not
going to be able to, respond.
They've got ways of doing thingsand, they're juggling a bunch of
other things.
You can win by just beingresponsive.
You said direct.
(13:58):
I wanted to unpack that a littlebit.
It sounded like you meantresponsive, but I wasn't quite
sure if there was something elseunderneath the surface of
direct.
Is that part of your salesprocess, you guys felt like
you're more direct?
Unpack that a little bit for me.
Niclas Lilja (14:12):
I think we're quite practical and the people
doing sales with Younium areknowledgeable, not only on sales
process, but also on the domainand how it's done.
So if we're talking about likethe phase before becoming
customer, I think that is oneway, you can have a quicker path
to getting to some sort of, thisis how it can be done.
(14:35):
Instead of having one meeting,another meeting, discussing a
bit more, a third meeting, maybewe can bring in someone who
knows something about, thisparticular problem, and then
another follow up.
And, what you said aroundbureaucracy is definitely one
thing.
But also I think when it comesto being direct, we typically
walk away from this if we don'tthink we're going to be good at
(14:57):
it, if you're running, a B to Cbusiness, we're going to tell
you that, there are otheroptions that are better.
We can name them, give them awayand we will walk out.
The same goes for, B to small Bwhere it's very B to C use case
oriented.
And there are, no real reasonswhy we would be better.
(15:17):
We typically leave as well.
So I guess that's also a way ofbeing direct and not wasting
anyone's time
Dan Balcauski (15:23):
so I heard, cause you've mentioned knowledge a few
times.
It sounds like those two thingsare coming together of knowledge
and sort of the directness.
Because what that brought tomind for me was the memory I've
had all too often, which is I'mlooking to buy some software.
There's no public pricing.
There's a chat box.
(15:43):
It says, talk to a productexpert.
So I say, okay, this is what I'minterested in.
They're like, you need to get ona call.
Then I get on a call with thatperson.
They start talking about,Product Overview.
And I'm like, that's not whatI'm interested in this specific
thing.
They're like, Oh, actually, Idon't know anything about that
thing or how it's priced.
You need to now have anothercall.
And so now I'm a web visit, achat bot interaction and two
(16:06):
phone calls deep before I getthe basic answers that hopefully
were on your website to beginwith.
Is that sort of the pictureyou're trying to paint of like
avoiding all those shenanigans?
Niclas Lilja (16:16):
Yeah, definitely.
I think that is one point but itcould also be, a follow up to
that is if you get good answersto your questions you could
probably also be fine with, ifyou want to dig deeper, let's
move this from the chat bot and,maybe have a meeting about it
and, see, what you want more.
And then you have another setof, Things I definitely write
and I think that goes in sort ofevery step in the process right?
Dan Balcauski (16:39):
And look many companies.
Struggle with, pricing andpackaging.
It's something that's near anddear to my heart and Younium
plays, in the subscriptionmanagement and billing space.
I'm curious your opinion.
What do you see most B to B SaaScompanies getting wrong with
pricing and packaging?
Niclas Lilja (16:55):
If it had to be one answer I think Being passive
and inactive is probably theworst thing
Dan Balcauski (17:06):
not doing anything
Niclas Lilja (17:07):
yeah.
I think we can all agree thatthe world changes, we changes,
you have to also change yourpricing and stay active and work
with it.
I think the other part isaligning with where you're at on
your customer journey.
It's really different if you'rein the early phase, you need to
get customers in, or, if youstarted to scale or if you're
(17:28):
going to set up your secondrevenue stream, or if you're
going to your seventh country,they all have different
characteristics, right?
So I think being very realisticabout that, what is the most
important, right?
Are we running a very, like, ifwe're going to make just a few
deals a year, the pricing oneach and every deal is super,
(17:51):
super important?
Whereas if we do just a highvolume of these, standardization
will be, more important and thenwe're probably somewhere in the
middle.
But I think having thatdiscussion and figuring out what
makes the most sense for uswhere we're at right now and I
don't hear that too often.
It's quite quickly into like.
(18:15):
Hey, it looks like everyone elseis doing some sort of usage
based pricing.
Let's do that.
Okay.
Why?
I mean, I think answering why isreally important as well.
Dan Balcauski (18:29):
Fair.
Niclas Lilja (18:29):
continue on this, then you know, like, two sides
to to, to a coin, I guess, likeone is getting it way too
complicated.
But on the other hand, I alsosometimes feel like, This
pricing is too simple in thesense that it's maybe it's just
three plans with a fixed priceor it's just seat based there
are so many opportunities to,carve out a few things handle
(18:52):
them separately or makedifferent plans I think you're
at least getting into more ofthe details.
At least for myself, I like tothink, what is the price point?
Regardless of the mechanics,what is the reasonable price
point for the value we'reproviding, if you can get that a
bit right, then it opens up andyou can package it in different
(19:15):
ways.
You can have differentstrategies.
Do you want like a big, Go bigearly or do you want to land and
expand?
Do you want it to be morerecurring or pay as you go?
Or, different variants of that.
Dan Balcauski (19:26):
I'm curious about this because, obviously, so, so
you and EM, you're sitting ontop of a bunch of data from
different SaaS companies usingyour subscription management
billing service, from the, kindof customers you see, has that
taught you anything about likehow we should trade off between.
(19:47):
Flexibility with sort of desirefor simplicity or clarity in a
pricing model.
Are there lessons you've learnedby seeing companies with
different models and being,being out there successfully
sort of, running revenuethrough, through Younium system,
like, where you're like, maybeyou onboard them as a customer
and you're like, man, you guyshave a really complicated model.
This is not, I can't imaginethis work well for you.
(20:08):
And then you see their billingdata come through.
You're like, yeah, it doesn'tlook like it's working so well.
How do you think about thattrade off?
Niclas Lilja (20:14):
I really do believe there is no silver
bullet in this.
But I think sometimes we seethings that are just not
logical.
It's difficult, even if youdissect it, how to calculate
this but I do think that, Manycompanies still like to have a
big portion of recurring fees,topped with, Some usage fees.
(20:36):
That's one thing that I see andthey seem to be doing pretty
good if you're going all the wayon pay as you go You have to get
your cash flow elsewhere, right?
We're being blunt about it.
So, having a mix of that, theyseem to be doing really well.
And maybe it gives some sort of,security to their business as
(20:58):
well.
Having a portion being quitesecure and recovering and then
topping it off.
Dan Balcauski (21:03):
I think we've seen a lot of, volatility in the
pure pay as you go companies interms of their revenue.
They were faster on the way upand then faster on the way down.
And that's a whip saw thatlooks, if you only saw that
first part of the curve, you'relike, man, those numbers look
really good.
And then as soon as the breaks.
Happen on the economy.
It goes the other way reallyfast and can really screw up
(21:27):
your planning.
Niclas Lilja (21:29):
yeah, I think so and I mean, I guess if you're
huge and having like, likereally high volume of
transactions, maybe you sort ofget that magic of big numbers
that it becomes almost.
Secure, almost recovering.
But I think most companiesdon't, right?
(21:50):
Most companies are not thatenormously big that they have
those vast, like, numbers ofusage transactions.
So, so I think yeah absolutelyright.
Dan Balcauski (22:03):
I wanted to ask, go back to something we were
talking about earlier in theconversation where you were
talking about narrowing yourfocus on an ICP.
I think this is a critical issuefor a lot of executive teams.
Founders in general worry aboutnarrowing their focus, too much,
how did you go about yourdetermining who the, your ideal
(22:24):
customers were when you firststarted Younium?
And has that changed over time?
Niclas Lilja (22:29):
I think we've improved on it throughout the
journey, definitely.
And I think what has happened isthat we've gotten better.
I would say more and moreniched, the bigger we get, which
is a bit counterintuitive,right?
(22:49):
But we also had a phase, in thebeginning, when you're looking
for your first customers, youdon't really know, you don't
know what will work.
I mean, you don't have anyproof.
So we definitely had a bit of awider scope, but I also think we
realized like, We know thisindustry is quite open minded.
(23:10):
It's an industry where you don'thave, ERP systems that are 70
years old and, carry a lot ofconsultancy and claims to have
done everything before.
So accessible in that sense.
But also quite global, right?
And I think if you talk to aSaaS company somewhere in Europe
or somewhere in South America orsomewhere in North America, they
(23:34):
typically, read the same books.
They have the same heroes.
They all listen to SaaS ScalingSecrets and other podcasts,
right?
They allowed us to, have successwith being, very pointy, but for
instance, we were quite long indiscussions with a big 100 plus
year old company, more towardsthe manufacturing industry,
(23:58):
wanted to go into servitization.
We've been through legal and ITand, all the procedures are a
really big deal.
It looked really nice.
We're about to sign and thenCOVID hit.
And like all big companies,Pulled on the handles, like no
more purchases, no morespending, no more investments,
(24:18):
no more.
So it didn't happen and, quitehappy about that today, because
I think like if you get thosebig, shiny, deals too early, and
they are a bit sort of outsideyour scope, either you have to
be really good at pivoting inthat direction really fast.
Or you're gonna you're gonnaslow down for some time until
(24:41):
you get that going and can sortof get back onto your original
trajectory.
A bit of luck, I guess, witheverything.
Dan Balcauski (24:47):
I want to go back to something you said at the
beginning of your answer, whichwas, as you've grown, your ICP
has got more pointy it sounds alittle counterintuitive because,
the average practice is, as wegrow.
We need to expand who we'reserving because that's where
we're going to get better growthopportunities.
(25:08):
So kind of talk to me a littlebit about like, what was that,
what did that look like for youas you were growing, but then
also getting more focused wasthere a tension of like, if we
go over here, we can grow fasterby serving these other
customers, how did you thinkthrough that?
Niclas Lilja (25:22):
We Typically do strategic planning for, three
years at a time.
A reasonable amount of planningthat is, but doing that we, this
one year we went through likedifferent growth opportunities
and different sort of paths,very general paths of growth.
And, one would be, maybe go intoa few other industries.
(25:42):
Like adjacent industries.
All companies are becomingsoftware companies anyway, so
why don't we serve all of them,that could be one track Or
maybe, maybe we can expand ourproduct offering a bit Maybe we
don't have to do only what wedo.
We had a few differentdiscussions the third one was
Geography partly because we'ddone it before in previous
(26:04):
companies and knew what thatmeant in terms of regulations,
laws and, financial practices,et cetera.
But also because, back to thatsame, it becomes almost a bit
boring, but that we felt like wewant to be really good at
something.
And they seem to be the bestpath for that.
So we have, a path that isgrowing where we can do much
(26:30):
more than today.
There's really no problem.
And I'm sure at some point we'llopen up other growth paths, but
Not doing all at once.
I'm pretty sure we would havedone worse Trying to do
everything at once I'm surethere are other companies good
at that, but I'm not so we tryto be simple, let's just go with
(26:52):
this SaaS software, geographicexpansion, let's figure this
out, that has also led us to,do, gain a lot of knowledge, but
also do a lot of, like, aConnectors with other CRM
systems, with financialpackages, with different ways of
both paying and distributinginvoices, handling tax, et
(27:13):
cetera, so we're pretty wellcovered with that.
And, despite being our size,customers in 16 countries with
different rule sets.
That has been, of course,there's work to this as well,
but we felt pretty comfortable.
With that,
Dan Balcauski (27:26):
Niclas, I could talk to you all day, but we are
running out of time.
I wanted to wrap up ourconversation today with a few
rapid fire closeout questions.
Are you ready?
Niclas Lilja (27:37):
Sure, shoot.
Dan Balcauski (27:39):
NNiclas how do you define success?
Niclas Lilja (27:43):
On one hand being a bit uncomfortable, like,
starting a new company.
On the other hand, I also thinkthat sometimes I feel
uncomfortable.
Things being calm and quietaround me and I guess that is
also a bit of success.
So maybe I feel like having,those ups and downs on my heart
(28:06):
rate monitor.
Dan Balcauski (28:06):
Is some heart rate variability and
uncomfortable calm probablygoing between those two on a
daily basis.
I get that.
Niclas Lilja (28:13):
I
Dan Balcauski (28:15):
When you think about all the spectacular people
you've had a chance to workwith, learn from, is there
anyone that pops to mind, has adisproportionate effect on the
way that you think about runningor building companies?
Niclas Lilja (28:28):
I have a few from my former company Medias.
I think I learned a lot there, Ilooked at other people and how
they did things and I learned.
Paranodling taught me grit andthere's always a solution to the
most complicated problems.
Mika Limblom was another onedoing sales, competitiveness in
business.
(28:49):
Being very structured andaccountable.
I had others like TorbjörnAlfman, very positive energy,
always overcomes, correctnessand perfect strategy.
Pontus Björnsson Per Åkerberg,there are a few others as well.
Also a few at Younium.
I feel like I hijacked thatbullet.
(29:09):
Finally, I get to thank a lot
Dan Balcauski (29:10):
I'll have to get those names from you over email
because I have no idea how tospell any of those names you
just mentioned, but I'm surethey're all fantastic people.
Look, being a CEO and foundercould pull you in a lot of
different directions.
Are there any habits that you'vecultivated to help you stay on
the top of your game,intellectually, emotionally,
physically?
Niclas Lilja (29:31):
I think I spent 20 years trying to work a lot and
sleep little.
That was bad.
It worked for a while.
I tried to sleep a lot.
I at least, get my eight hours.
I think that really helps mebecause nowadays it feels like
the problems that I'm facing arenot really.
(29:54):
Won over by brute force.
It's more like being a bit sharpand awake and Being in the right
mindset.
At least right now.
I think Sleeping is a goodthing.
Dan Balcauski (30:04):
Your eight hours.
If you're constantly deprivingyourself of sleep, you're also
potentially in this mindsetwhere you think you're going to
be out of the woods soon becausethe human body, can only
maintain that for so long.
So knowing that it's going to beyears, not months that you have
to feed the machine
Niclas Lilja (30:23):
I think If you wanna Be, a leader.
People typically want theirleaders to be present and aware
and awake, right?
Dan Balcauski (30:35):
hopefully.
Niclas Lilja (30:36):
serves a purpose in that way as well.
Dan Balcauski (30:38):
If I gave you a billboard and you could put
anything on it for advice forother B to B SaaS CEOs trying to
scale their companies, whatwould you put on it?
What advice would you give them?
Niclas Lilja (30:49):
It would have to be super clear on your ideal
customer profile And you candraw a lot of things from that.
A lot of other things fall intoplace.
Don't fall into the trap of,this great market.
Try to really focus on how toserve someone in the best
possible way.
(31:09):
And, I think you will sort theother things out along the way.
Dan Balcauski (31:13):
Be clear on your ideal customer profile.
Niclas, this has been fantastic.
If our listeners want to connectwith you, learn more about
Younium, how can they do that?
Niclas Lilja (31:23):
On the web, www.
Youniumium.
com or LinkedIn, our mainchannels.
So you'll find Younium onLinkedIn and you'll also find
me.
There's quite a few events outthere.
Typically they start with SaaSsomething.
And we're often there in ourpink caps, looking something
like this.
Dan Balcauski (31:42):
I gotta say,
Niclas Lilja (31:43):
they are pink.
Dan Balcauski (31:44):
If you do see Younium at a event.
I highly recommend stopping bythe booth cause they have the
best booth swag of any companyI've seen.
I've got a couple of yourstickers still hanging around
here.
I will definitely put thoselinks in the show notes for
listeners.
Everyone that wraps up thisepisode of SaaS Scaling Secrets.
Thank you to Niclas for sharinghis journey insights and
(32:04):
valuable tips for our listeners.
If you found this conversationas enlightening as I did,
remember, subscribe so you don'tmiss out on future episodes.
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