The Metrics Brothers (fka SaaS Talk)

In this episode of The Metrics Brothers, Ray Rike and Dave Kellogg unpack Benedict Evans’ latest landmark presentation, AI Eats the World, and explore why this moment may rival or even surpass the original “software is eating the world” era. Drawing parallels to Marc Andreessen’s 2011 thesis, they examine how AI is no longer just another platform shift, but a force capable of reshaping labor, capital allocation, and entire...

In this episode of The Metrics Brothers, hosts Ray “Growth” Rike and Dave “CAC” Kellogg provide a critical deep dive into the 2025 SaaS Benchmark Report published by High Alpha. Known for their analytical, and sometimes "crusty" approach, the metrics brothers dissect the data behind 800+ SaaS companies to separate real market trends from report commentary.

Key Highlights & Benchmarks

The brothers break down the report’s ...

In this episode of The Metrics Brothers, Ray “Growth” Rike and Dave “CAC” Kellogg take on one of the biggest challenges facing modern SaaS and AI-Native companies: how to measure NRR and expansion when pricing isn’t fixed anymore.

With the rise of usage-based, user-based-but-variable, and outcome-based pricing, the traditional world of ARR - long the backbone of SaaS metrics has been turned on its head. Contracts no longer ...

In this episode, "The Metrics Brothers," Growth (Ray Rike) and CAC (Dave Kellogg), dive into a critical challenge for modern SaaS and AI-Native companies: accurately calculating Net Revenue Retention (NRR) in environments that utilize variable pricing models (usage-based, outcome-based, etc.).

They begin by defining NRR, emphasizing its importance as a key metric and its high correlation with Enterprise Value-to-Revenue mul...

For their 100th episode, Ray "Growth" Rike and Dave "CAC" Kellogg get philosophical, inspired by the notion that many hold, which is "nothing works" in B2B GTM anymore - especially in regards to pipeline development.

They dive into the 2025 State of B2B GTM Report by Kyle Poyar and Maja Voijc to challenge this idea and find out what GTM leaders are actually prioritizing.

In this episode, The Metrics Brothers break down:

• T...

In this episode of The Metrics Brothers, Ray “Growth” Rike and Dave “CAC” Kellogg break down one of the emerging metrics in the Agentic AI era: Containment Rate - the percentage of tasks an AI agent completes (resolves) end-to-end without human intervention.

They explore multiple aspects of the Containment Rate Metric including:

• How containment rate differs from classic chatbot metric - deflection rate
• Why defining “resol...

Air Street Capital’s Nathan Benaich just dropped the 2025 State of AI Report — a 313-page tour de force on where artificial intelligence is today and where it’s headed next. In this episode, Dave “CAC” Kellogg and Ray “Growth” Rike break down the highlights, surprises, and bold predictions shaping the future of AI, software, and the global economy.

They explore:

• Why this report is becoming the “Mary Meeker Internet Repor...

AI Agents (also known as Agentic AI) are quickly becoming one of the most talked-about ways for enterprises to operationalize generative AI. G2 recently released a new research report — “A Leap of Trust: AI Agents Are Winning Hearts and Wallets” — highlighting where adoption is happening and why.

In this episode, Dave “CAC” Kellogg and Ray “Growth” Rike break down the report’s findings and what they mean for business leader...

The buzz about ROI from AI software investments is palpable, so Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike take on the topic of measuring Return on Investment on AI software investments. During today's episode, Dave and Ray discuss the details on measuring ROI including:

• Defining Return on Investment
• Soft vs Hard Benefits
• Productivity - the primary benefit of AI investments today
• Buy versus Build & Run - an old prob...

9-9-6. A term to describe the work culture of working 9AM - 9PM six days a week. This term is most often associated with those founders, companies, and their employees that work in generational software opportunities - such as we see right now with AI Software.

Dave and Ray discuss 9-9-6 from multiple angles in today's episode including:

• What 9-9-6 is
• Where did it originate
• Why is it trending
• The importance of Winning...

The Forward-Deployed Engineer (FDE) represents a fundamental reimagining of the technical role in high-stakes enterprise environments. At its core, an FDE is a software engineer embedded directly with customers to solve their most complex—and often ambiguous—problems.

Palantir is widely credited as the originator and early adopter of the FDE model, initially referring to these engineers as “Deltas.” In this episode, Dave “C...

Iconiq recently published its State of Software 2025: Rethinking the Playbook. Whenever a new industry benchmark report is published, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike try to quickly read, analyze and decide if the report should be discussed on an episode of the Metrics Brothers. The Iconiq State of Software 2025 is a solid industry report that includes several key findings that Dave and Ray discuss during th...

The Bessemer Venture Partners Cloud 100 Benchmarks Report 2025 provides a snapshot into the top 100 PRIVATE SaaS/Cloud/AI companies. This year's report is full of new insights and trends that highlight how AI is impacting the software industry as we know it. Some of the key points in the report that our hosts Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss during today's episode include:

•  The Cloud 100 $1,117 bill...

Positive Business Outlook or Work-Life Balance - which is more important? The "Grindscore" metric combines the two to determine the attractiveness of a company for employees. 

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the metric from many different angles including:

• The origin of the Grindscore metric
• Positive Business Outlook (PBO) + Work-Life Balance (WLB)
• Sample of Private and Public Company Grindscores
• ...

Bessemer Venture Partners recently released their State of AI 2025 Report, a space exploration manual for the AI software era. With AI now the dominant software force, let's dive into what Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike took away from the report in today's episode:

• The key differences in performance metrics between AI Supernovas and Shooting Stars
• Why Vertical AI companies have a unique opportunity to outperfor...

Aventis Advisors recently published a report on AI Valuations which covered the number of investments, size of those investments, median valuations and multiples on AI investments over a 15 year period from 2010 through first half of 2025!

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss some of the highlights including:

• AI industry categories included
• Number of financing rounds (2010 - 1H2025)
• Total Capital Raised (2010 -...

AI-Native products and AI products integrated into a traditional SaaS platform have different Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) than a SaaS platform, which directly impacts Gross Margin. With over 80% of SaaS companies already integrating AI products into their platform, the Metrics Brothers knew it was time to discuss the Gross Margin and Cost of Goods Sold considerations of deploying an AI product:

Topics that CAC and Growth disc...

AI is creating a level of need for data centers, power and processing capacity that has not been seen before - but how to measure the magnitude of that need is the topic for the Metrics Brothers to take on during this episode.

During today's conversation, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss many key Data Center metrics including:

• FLOPS - Floating Point Operations per Second
• Model Parameters
• Watts and Gigaw...

SaaS companies were traditionally measured on how many years it took to achieve $100M ARR - a key milestone! In today's brave new world of AI, this milestone is now measured in MONTHS. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike highlight discuss this new AI growth metric in today's episode with many examples including:

• Lovable
• Cursor
• Wiz
• Bolt
• Anthropic
• OpenAI

Dave and Ray discuss how these new hypergrowth AI-Native com...