84: On Nosferatu

Review of the 2024 film "Nosferatu", directed by Dave Eggers. Surprisingly turned out to be a feminist rabbit hole inviting multiple interpretations. All the spoilers! (*also includes birthday well wishes for one of your hosts <3, an out of context update on the no good very bad boyfriend, and smack talking Andr*w H*berman)

Source list: https://bit.ly/3QMVS6b

Patreon ~ patreon.com/sadgap
Merch ~ sadgap-podcast.com/merch 

ig: @sadgap.podcast / @misandristmemes / @txgothgf / music producer @iamjonnibrooks.eth 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to Sad Girls against the Patriarchy.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm Alison and I'm Alexis, and we are your sad girls,
cinematic sad girls.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
I always love doing these, They're so fun.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
We've done Barbie Saltburn, Substance, Poor Things, Poor Things, and
yeah this is it.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Okay, I mean we did shows. We've done Babby Reindeer.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh that's true, Babby Reindeer. That was a good one. Yeah,
that was well this one.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
At first, I didn't realize where the feminist angle was
going to come in. I looked up no Saratu feminism
right off the back because I wanted to see what
people were saying, and I didn't see a lot of
I don't know. I was looking like YouTube or podcasts.
This means there's a space for us.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
Yeah, I looked up some articles and I got some
good insights because I was kind of wondering. Obviously there's
the feminist spaces. We'll write about a lot of movies
just in general. But it's kind of wondering like do
people think.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
It's feminist or do they not? And I'm excited to
delve into that. Yeah. Once I watched the movie, I
was like, oh, okay, I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
We're going on this journey with this woman as she
explores her sexuality, and there's seems of oppression from the
time period.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
By the way, the air will be spoilers.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yeah, I mean alert the spoilers, probably all throughout randomly.
I can't We're gonna retell one movie. Yeah, I can't
condense it to one little area. I mean hopefully I
would assume you've seen the movie if you're listening to
this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
We like to give away everything as we go into
the feminism of it all.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
So it's on Peacock. You saw the It's apparently it's
only the extended version to two hours and sixteen minutes
instead of two hours and twelve minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Okay, so it's like extra four minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, it's probably just like the moody scenes where he's
walking through the halls and there's a fuck ton of archways.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
It's just like drawn out cinematography.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
That's what the direction's cut always is.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Where someone was like, dude, we don't need foreman, it's
of this one shot. I know it took forever to
set up, but like it doesn't need to be this long.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Right, Like the lost cost fallacy. It's like, no, no, no,
but I spent so much doing it has to go
in the movie.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
It's like, but it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Robert Eggers is a dork. I've have a tune interview
with him. He's a total film nerd. Yes, well, let's
recap the movie just to refresh everyone's brains in case
they haven't seen it recently.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
It is a total ripoff of Dracula.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
There was even legal action taken against the creators of
nos Faratu by Bram Stoker's widow, who was like, fuck
you for ripping me off and not compensating, or for
ripping off my husband.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
I guess, yeah, well I think they wanted to do
Dracula as a film and she said no, and then
they were like, well then fuck you.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Watch this Instead of Count Dracula, it's Count olac Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
And they changed, like, in my opinion, they changed like
enough things where it's like it's not exactly the same,
but the main plot is the same.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
And at the time, there was so little vampireic lore
in media that it was pretty clear. Now you can
rip off a vampire movie or show and it'll be like, Okay,
it's just another in the great lexicon. Right, none at
the time, no souh in this version, no s faratu.
Because this is the remaking of the nineteen twenty two film,
which is a German film. We are said in Germany's
eighteen thirties, and we've got Thomas. He's a young real

(03:24):
estate agent with his really horning wife Ellen. She is
so horny, guys, her character set up is just horn dog.
There's a meme that's like when you're hornier, like want
sex more than your partner or your boyfriend, and you
just feel like a crazed animal in heat. Yes, it's
very much a feminine stigma there, like you're not supposed

(03:44):
to want sex as much as your male partner, right.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
Which is so fucking dumb and usually not true. I
know where this I felt insane. You can get into
the two, but I think this is part of it.
It's like I felt insane going through puberty because I
was like thinking about sex, ye warning, sex, jerking off
and being like I am a disgusting person and no
other girl on planet Earth feels this way and I need.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
To be locked up. Yeah, what's wrong with me? Yeah?
I am the problem.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
And then getting older and maybe For some women, there
is kind of a sexual blossoming or sort of a
glow up as you get older because you realize that
you're allowed to. And I know a lot of women
in getting into their thirties who have told me like, damn,
like I definitely want to have sex way more than
my partner, And now I feel like we're on different tracks,
Like maybe they wanted this at nineteen, I want.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
This at thirty five. It's probably societal, I would I
don't think it's a biological clock thing. It's probably just
like you're finally shaking off the shame.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yes, I think that's what I've heard from a lot
of women in their thirties, like sex is better now. Yeah,
it's not like some gross, like floppy teenager on top
of you and like it's done in five seconds. It's
like they kind of know what they're doing now for
the most part, and yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
It's enjoyable. It's not like a uh okay.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Sure, yeah, tolerate it. Yeah, and then by then the
miner all ran through.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
I saw that meme that was like the reason men's
body counts are so high is because no one wants
to go back to him.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
That's that I think often true. Yes, yeah, one and done.
But Ellen's husband Thomas does not run through. They have
this very beautiful little romance.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
They're cute. They're cute.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, and he is sent by his boss to go
to a very spooky castle run Sylvah.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah for real. Yeah, but literally it's like a real place. Yes,
it is in the Cathian Mountains.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
Dracula voice. It's good, it's not my voice because that's different.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Bill Scar's guard really brought it, Yeah he did.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
But Thomas is going to pick up this old man
who's not Count Olaf, he's Count o'lach wock. Oh damn
my notes all oh no, you might note say Warlock. Okay,
thank god.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
It's a few sounds the name of the Snowman and
frozen and also Count Oloff is in serious event. That's right,
that's where that sounds. Yep.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I wouldn't be surprised if Lemony Snicket did that on purpose,
because Olaf is a terrible he's a villain in the
story and she's kind of hooked nose and vampireic in spirits.
But Count Orlock is our vampire, and Thomas goes to
fetch him and ends up trapped in Nightmareland, getting blood
suckled by the count. He escapes, He comes back to Ellen.

(06:26):
She's been having these visions, very horny, horny visions.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Having quote unquote fits, being hysterical.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, they say yeah, but they end up taking down Orlock.
He comes, he pursues, he brings a plague. He's coming
after Ellen, but she makes a choice. She develops her
own agency. We'll get into that more depth. And she
conquers everything, and she saves the world. She literally, yeah,
or at least their city.

Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Is he gonna take was he gonna devour more? He
definitely was gonna take down the city?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (06:57):
I mean we don't know. He seems pretty fucking powerful.
Would he stop in fake a city called.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
It wasn't Heisenberg? But that's what's in my head.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
It's it's a fake city, it's in Germany, But you
know what he could have? I feel like she saved
it's nothing else her world.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yes. So the first line of the film is come
to me. It's very sexual and romantic, com pleading, and
it's this repeated whisper. It's this deep voice that's talking
to Ellen, seducing her in this dream stage she's conjoining
with this demon in her mind. She's having this like
orgasmic sort of fantasy as far as I can tell,

(07:34):
a lot of moaning. And then the demon her corporeal
like corpel like corporal Yep, I'm try saying, yeah, kind
of Yeah, it's like corporalizes, corpeal, he becomes corp becomes
physical and person. And there's a nice word for that,
I know exactly, corporeal.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, corporealizes, but that's underlined and read in my notes anyway.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
And then he strangles her.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
So it's like this woman who claiming her sexuality, she's
enjoying it, and then she's immediately punished by.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
The object of her desire. Yep, because she has desire.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
And then we cut to her husband and I, By
the way, Lily Rose Depp is still a teenager in
my mind.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Did you have that feeling too? Why had she grown? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (08:15):
I kept thinking the whole time. I was like, God,
she's so young, and she is. She's still very young.
She's like what in her like early twenties.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
She was born in nineteen ninety nine, so she would
actually be like twenty five six something like that.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, and probably what twenty four when they filmed it.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Sure say yeah, but no, yeah, it's it's it's really
weird being like, oh, the person that I had a
crush on growing up's daughter.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, I know, it's the star of this film and
she's totally a Nippo baby, but she has gotten better
at acting.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
I someone said this very succinctly, but I one hundred
percent agree. I think her physical acting in this is incredible,
Like she's studied really hard to do all that physicality
and it works, and none of that is enhanced with CGI,
Like that is all her, Like all those crazy faces
and shit, that was her amazing her vocalization and line delivery,

(09:07):
on the other hand.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
It was better than I expected.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
But I haven't seen her in a movie since she
was a teenager, and I saw her in like a
terrible it was like it sat in Canada.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
I think it's about hockey. It's called like hosers or
there's like a slang terms.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, and it was just so bad, and it was like, oh,
she got this role because she's johnnied Up's daughter. Now
at least, I mean, I still don't really respect an
EPO baby who only has their opportunities because of.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
That right, at least she tried.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah, And it sounds like she like studied Japanese theater
and like all this stuff to try to really like
hone in on this role bhutto.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yes there's a form of dance.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yes we're cool, go look up botto and yeah, that's
the way she what she studied to try to like
get into this kind of like all the crazy shit
she did, with like all the like quote unquote fits
and like seizures that she's having and all the physical
stuff she does. So her commitment to the bit was
really good. But I didn't see the idol but apparently
that was like one of the worst things that ever
came on television that she was in and I didn't

(10:06):
watch it, but I haven't heard anything good about it.
So my hopes for her were like in the toilet.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, right, So she she exceeded expectations. The actually loved Yeah,
the expectations could not have been lower. And she's smarter
than I realized.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Also, I have Yeah, I think she had Bimbo in
my conception of her, which maybe she deserves. No, she
doesn't deserve a Bimbo series episode. She's an appo baby.
Everything was handed to her. Yes, take it back at
least like Britney Spears came from a normal family. Yeah,
but she I saw an interview of her talking about
her character, and she has a lot of, you know,

(10:40):
like the things that we associate with being a ditz,
of filler words and maybe some vocal fry and whatever.
But the content of what she was saying was profound.
I was like, okay, cool, Like she's grown up to
be a person.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
She's not the teenager, the wafy coquette that I have
in my brain right, which is just me being inherently misogynistic.
That's what's so hard with stuff like this.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, Like even if I have I feel sometimes legitimate
critiques about women, I'm.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Like, no, you must undo.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
You cannot because it's the Internet and it's Instagram that
taught me that that I picture her with like the
cigarette and she's so frail and she's just like a
little ballerina whatever, and it's.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Like, no, she has substance. Yeah, so she is grown
up now adult Lily Rose, Yeah, very strange stars with
this movie she does, and she's very new. Her husband
and he is into it too.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
He's like, how did I earn such a doting wife,
which is a nice way of saying like she wants
to suck them off all the time.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
She really does.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
There's even a scene where they're in their friend's house
and the friends just walk away and they start making
out really passionately in their friends like parlor, like not
the time and place.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Hey, they're newly wet, okay, and who knows how old
they're supposed to be in the movie, because back then
it's like you got married at what like sixteen?

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, yeah, they're definitely supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Young, and maybe they were supposed to be virginal before then.
So they're they're letting it out and her husband, so
he goes to collect count orlock.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
His boss sends him off.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
That way, and he tells Lily Rose dep who's not
a child bride. He tells Ellen she probably was true
character is probably like seventeen.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, that's true. He says, Harding has agreed to keep
you for a few days. Is the way he says
that Harding is his friend.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yeah, because women cannot be left alone and she's property,
so his property is going to be taken care of
in his absence, which is nice, I guess he means well, and.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Then we see that she's just giving hysterical woman all
the way. She's dreaming of death, she's having these convulsions
in bed, and there's references to her past melancholy, which
I think is a synonym for depression.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, and I think she had these fits prior when
she was younger, but she'd kind of like quote unquote
like grown out of them.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
And they'd gotten better when she got married because she
had an outlet for it. But they're very sexually coded
and definitely allusions to her being a child to come
up and continuing to have these fits throughout her life.
So then we see Thomas. He's going to see count Orlock.
He's exiting Realityville and passes through this very kooky little
town abandons that do some kind of humanoid sacrifice.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Was it a dream or reality? We don't know. Definitely reality. Yes,
he woke up from a dream, but he had mud
on his shoes. That's how you know in the movies.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's never happened to me before, but it's definitely a
thing in the film into movies. Yes, And he arrives
at counter Likes manner and we find him to be
this terrifying monster. Which what is Bill Scarsgard fetish with
being like the villain but also somehow like he's gonna
be I feel like he tries to infuse this kind
of sexual energy into his roles.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Maybe I just think.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
He's sexy about say. I was like, were you like
turned on watching it and seeing Penny Wise? You were like, fuck, yeah,
Penny Luck, take me down to the sewers.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
No, No, that couldn't be me.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I'm not into clouds. What the fuck? Maybe not penny Wise,
but isn't that kind of his role. I feel like
he's other things where he's a villain, but he's like
just still Bill scars He has a charisma. I think
that he really tries I should say charisma more than
sexual energy.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
He does, though, I mean he could, he could get it.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
He could.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, And there's so many memes about white girls saying like,
oh he's sexy.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
It's just this disgusting monster.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
I mean he is kind of the weirdest looking dude, yeah,
but also really hot.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Never let being ugly stuff being hot, as Jeremy Allen
White has taught us.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
But yeah, you're totally right. He likes being a villain.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
He likes being kind of gross, and apparently he said
in an interview that the way Count Warlock looks in
the movie is how he feels like he looks in
the inside.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Wow. Yeah, so freak. I could fix him.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
I could bring out that evilness and accept it, and
then he would accept himself.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
So I know you're into vampires.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah, did you like this iteration of Count Warlock being
like fucking gross?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's a good return to the origin, which is what
Robert Agers wanted. He specifically said, I'm not into the
twee vampires. They started as a villain, they became an
anti hero, and now they're not even an anti hero.
They're just these pretty sparkly even true Blood you know
Eric scars Guard relation.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yes, nice net Bo's.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
The scars Guard family is an acting legacy family, like
that entire family is.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
They're all talented though, to be fair.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, Eric Scar's Guard and True Blood was was future
husband material for sure, but probably the character more than
the actor.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah he's old. Now.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Look, I don't need to be reminded of my mortality
on today.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
He's like fifty. Eric scars Guard is quite say it's true.
Should we tell the people today or should.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
I mean, by the time this comes out, it won't
be my birthday.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
So I don't know, is alexis his birthday to day?

Speaker 4 (15:51):
You're recording on my birthday, but it is not an
important one, so it's okay.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
No, it's nice to do things on your birth I
think it's nice to do kind of like things that
make you feel like you're excelling in a career space. Yes,
it feels good of like, oh, like I'm doing shit.
I'm not just gonna party. Yeah, I'm a grown up.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
I am, and I have a second interview for a
job this week, so I'm doing adult thing.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
We do love to see it, even just Quippi, but like,
good job. I liked it, and I.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Think I think he's still I heard Robert Aggers describe
count were like as phallic, like still very not sexy,
but still very sexual. Yes, it wasn't like, you know,
physically my type, but like I saw the energy they
were putting into it, and I thought that was very
appropriate to the original vampire lore.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yes it was the mustache, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
That was like apparently how Slavic lords would have dressed
at the time.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
I did not like the mustache on a you know,
visceral level.

Speaker 4 (16:47):
Oh no, I feel like a lot of people are
hung up on the mustache. But Edgarsy I heard an interview.
He's like, if you actually look at pictures at the time,
and like he goes, I don't even need to say anymore.
Vlady Impaler like, yeah, hello, famously mustache man and I
think Romanian and yeah or Hungarian?

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Uh it sa Slavic. It doesn't that encompass? Yes, that's
a lot of different nations.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
So he seems like he was a nobleman before he
got he's a count, but like, what if that's his
chosen name, if he wasn't a count before he became
Count Dracula or account.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Arlac his pronounce are count.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean I liked that he was gross.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a horror movie.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, it makes it scarier, but also it makes it
more interesting.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Mm hmm, Thomas, he's he's at count Orlac's manor we're
seeing Ellen at home having these Lonagel Racetahle musings.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
She asks her friend do you ever feel at times
as if you were not a person? Do you guys
ever feel like dying? And her friend is like, Oh, yeah,
she's trying.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Her friend's a really good friend, Yes she is, but
she doesn't get it. So Ellen is she's trapped in
this small life by her position as a woman. She's
having these grand conceptions about the nature of the universe.
She doesn't seem dissatisfied with her position because I think
she just takes it as.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Normal and given. And she claims she's feeling this.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Way because she's lost without her Thomas, her husband, but
it seems like she is if she were in a
different place or a different time. I felt like they
were creating this character that's trapped in her position.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
As a woman because it was the eighteen thirties.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
And like her morality and like the culture at the time,
and she is having like these psychic visions since childhood,
which is like very frowned upon. This is like Christian times,
Like there's a lot of things she's trying to repress
at all times.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yes. I Meanwhile, Thomas, he's in count Orlock's palace manner.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
It's so beautiful the cematography when he like goes up
the hill and it's like snowing and it looks almost
black and white.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Just ugh Chef's kiss so beautiful. They did good.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
I've heard Robert Eggers The Lighthouse has been recommended to
me many times.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Oh, I like super weird and I think you'll love it.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
But it's also like one of the most fucking masculine
films ever seen.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
But like, I really liked it. It's a lighthouse, fallacy nature.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
No, it's it's a dude movie. But it is so good.
But it's one of my it's one of my husband's
favorite movies. No, I want to see it. I think
I love it too. That's great.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yes, there's a lot of beans and farting.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
It's a lot of farting in that movie, which I
think is fucking hilarious because I'm a twelve year old
boy on the side.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
But yeah, tons of farts. Okay, well, yeah, boy movie.
But I'm I'm into the idea of it. Ellen is home,
she's by the way, Orlock is coming to her in
her sleep. It's it's Orloc who is this demon who's
been contacting her for a very long time.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Through That's what the beginning of the relationship was. That
one of the opening scenes was her begging for anyone
from like this. What's the exact whates like from the
spiritual or celestial crowds. Like she's just so lonely and
her mom just dies, so she's like begging the universe
for a friend and Orlock answers her call and like maybe.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Molests her is a child. Yeah, it was an artistic interpretation.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
They didn't specifically show this adult vampire who's ain't probably
very very old having sexual relations with a child. It
was kind of like I interpreted as she was touching herself, which.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Is still molestation if he's influenced. We didn't get into that. Yeah,
so I didn't think about that.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
It wasn't very hard drawn, but like you kind of
get the idea that like something happened, and like he's
kind of haunted her, and this event has haunted her
her whole life, Like she feels guilt around this event
because something definitely happened.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
She was found naked in a field.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
So I have, yes, I have a note about that
that was coming up pretty soon where her father was
calling out Sin Sin. He's shaming her for her having
some kind of sexuality as a kid, and I hear
about girls starting to I didn't because I, you know,
well a little bit, but I definitely was like, this
doesn't make sense yet, as like a small kid starting
to explore yourself and like feel things like little girls

(20:54):
do that, and if you have very woke parents, they're like, it's.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Okay, just do it at home. I was in front
of it. That's alone time.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
And if you don't have woke parents, they tell you you're disgusting. Yes, sin, yeah,
like hers. So she's home, she's having these fits her,
she's having these troubled nerves, and then they call for
a doctor who says she should.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Sleep any corset because it calms the womb.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yeah, a lot of I loved all the old medicine
in this and just straight up like tying her up
and chloroforming the shit.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Out of her.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
We did an episode on hysteria, well it was on mental.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Mental health, yeah, but it got a lot.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Into the wandering woman, the origins of our interpretations of
women's mental health, which are that their womb scuttles around
their body and causes all sorts of trouble, just freaks
having in there, And this is really what doctors thought.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
This isn't a joke.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Yes, they were like, too much blood and a uterus
is in the wrong place.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Ooh, yeah, honey, So she wants to go after Thomas,
but his friend who's looking out for her, says.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
She's absolutely not allowed to leave on her own. Yes,
so we're getting all of these visualizations.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
We're hearing all these lines about her being physically restricted.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
At one point, she's even tied down.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yes, so she has these men holding her down, restricting
her while she's having this involuntary sexual experience. She's having
like a seizure on the beach, but her legs are
wide open. She's just thrust and around, and the people
around her just think that she is a hysterical woman. Yep,

(22:28):
experiencing melancholy and the loss of her husband. That's a
big source of her angst, Right, she's lost without him. Yeah,
not that she's being possessed by a demon in a
trance or anything. Now, that doesn't have anything to do
with her husband, so it can't be true.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
I was wondering though, looking back now, I mean, I
think it's a little bit of both. Like, is she
saying it's because she misses her husband because she's trying
to cover up It's like, no, actually, this is demon
is infiltrating my mind and causing me to involse violently,
but I can't tell you that because then you lock
me up in the insane asylum, which back then was
terrible I thought.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
At the time though, there was some like the treatment
is orgasm kind of an idea like needing to release
some energies. But it was supposed to only be with
your husband, wasn't there something about like yeah, yeah, that
was like.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Only a thing. I just don't know the time period
I thought that.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, in my mind it's the eighteen hundreds, but that's
because I'm just blanket statement like yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Old times, old timis that makes sense because I feel
like that wouldn't happen the Victorian times, so like maybe
this time period would make sense, or like right after
the Victorian times would make sense.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Did doctors like masturbate their patients too? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (23:30):
I think my understanding is they like built vibrators, Like
it was like here you go, I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Look that up on our break.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, in this case there they haven't prescribed that because
her husband's a way, so you know, she's just supposed
to be restrained.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's just her fits and her nerves, right, her delicate
state has a woman, Let's take.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Her first break, I'll do a little vibrator origin story
research and we'll come back and introduce Willem dif friends
not a foe. All right, it does sound like doctors

(24:20):
did prescribe orgasms for hysteria prescribing quotes, and there is
some debate around this accuracy, but.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
It's a pretty widely circulated story. I don't see why not.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I could see male doctors doing that. Yeah, they did
perform public massages. This did lead to mechanized vibrators to
make the process faster.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, easier for doctor. Yeah, I'm sure she did feel
better afterwards. What does that mean? It's like women in
the ATMs.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
My wife who can't vote, had exactly zero orgasms here
and two children?

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Why is she so sad? For laudanum? But they did
not prescribe that for Ellen?

Speaker 2 (24:55):
They instead, Well, I just want to my hypernormalization ites
very different. The doctor who was helping her quote unquote
goes to find this prestigious intellect who has been outcast
for studying alchemy and the occult. And you know he's
weird because when they introduce him in his cluttered little
office space, on his desk, there are two cats and

(25:16):
immediately I was like, they're kind of setting them up
as a kook.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yes, not how you know, it's the it's the cats.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
There was some cat themes, which I'm gonna he had
a cat she did, and he said something positive about it.
They had a moment about cats, and I thought that
was supposed to be symbolic because Robert Eggers seems very
intentional and that cats are these autonomous creatures. They can't
be controlled, they have their own desires that have nothing
to do with you. And he said something about, yeah,

(25:43):
about oh, they're their own beasts or something.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Didn't he say something? I mean, I didn't.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
I mean it's been two months since I've seen this movie,
but I do remember him saying something about cats.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
I remember being like.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
I'm glad that cats are like not villainized in this
movie and abused and no cats die.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, And I think that concept of cats is femininity.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Which you've also done an episode on We're So Comprehensive
with our feminism. That that was kind of a representation
of what she is becoming here, which she will blossom into. Yes,
this is autonomous creature. Oh, I also read that cat's
choose their main person. This is unrelated. But not only
because of most consistent care, but because it's going to

(26:26):
be a person who respects their boundaries. Even if you're
the person who feeds your cat, if you're constantly trying
to snuggle it when it doesn't want to snuggle, it
won't choose you. It won't imprint on you. Both care
for them and respect when they want to come and go.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
That was cool, That makes sense.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, my cat, bless him.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
He won't leave me alone and loves me so much,
which I love, and has to cut on me all
the time. But then sometimes if I'm feeling silly, I
like when he's on me, I don't go out of
my way, but I like make him dance. Oh yeah,
really hates him and I just see him, Yeah, light
leave his eyes and then he just like gets back
town and like lays back on me.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
But yeah, it's sort of like the tax.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
We all do that. That's normal. I like to do
the like blow raspberries and her belly and she hates
it and tolerates it. Right, they're like a human. I
must for the warmth of your body. I will accept. Yes,
we love a babas, but prof friends will.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'm to friend he's the first person to kind of
he believes her. He wants her untied, he wants her
to just hop being drugged.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
He tries to accurately treat her right because he knows
there's something evil about Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
And he believes in that.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
But he actually seems to respect her more than any
of the other male characters.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
Yeah, he's like one of the first male characters other
than her husband. I feel like that talks to her.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Like a person.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, not just this kind of problem, yeah, object to
be taken care of. Oh, I really didn't think he
needed to stab an needle all the way through her
arm to demonstrate that she can't feel pain in her
trans state didn't go throughn't.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I don't remember, but I remember being like, okay, we
get it. Yeah, you know, it's done like a little
He like stabs through work she's in, Yeah, to prove
the point. It's a big chonky needle to prove that
she's not really in her body. But it was excessive.
He's a little extreme.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
This movie's gross too.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
We gotta be gross.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah, and this is where she gets real exorcist. And
even so, there's a lot of thrustin and her nipples
are erect, they make sure to pan over her body.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's still clearly a sexual fit of some sort. Yes,
but that's where physical acting really shines. Made me think
of the meme that's like riding in bed but archie
my backs and my ass still looks good. That's what
she was doing. One hundred percent. Yes, and uh yeah. Prof.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
France believes that she's possessed by a demon. He does
say demonic spirits most easily possessed those whose lower.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Animal functions dominate. So he is still saying that, like
she's a sexual beast. Yeah, and that's zeastly. It's her
sexuality that made her vulnerable. Bella Don't Have Sadness would
be a cool movie. No, it's too niche. It's such
a weird art movie. Never mind.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
I was gonna say it be fun true review, but
most people won't have seen it. But that was another
thing where we got like a physical representation of a
woman's sexuality that becomes a villain of sorts.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Right, I haven't seen it, but I've heard of it.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
It's it's weird, but it's cool.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Orlik makes his way to Germany via a plague ship
and Thomas has dragged himself home.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Now, good job, Thomas. Everyone's back. Everyone's in Germany now, No,
we made it back. I didn't mind details, kind of
being a little fuzzy. I didn't need to see everything.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
I got the gist and the dream like state that
Thomas was in while he was trapped kind of excuses
him not escaping, because I hate when it's a horror
theme and it's.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
Like, just leave, just fucking exit the house. Right, He's
definitely fucked up, Like, is he drugg does he on trance?

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Who knows? But he's not himself.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Blood loss probably blood loss. Yeah, he's definitely getting sucked on,
not in the fun way, sucked off of They're all
back in Germany, so net Warlock can come and confront
Ellen in the flesh in person, maybe maybe for the
first time. It's still kind of a dream like state.
I'm not sure if she's seen him yet. He might
have just been like an essence.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
When she was younger.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Maybe, Yeah, but she.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Doesn't really seem totally horrified by him, like there's still
an association of him with Yeah, there's a familiarity, and
he is he represents her sexuality in a way which
is kind of funny because you know, he's such a
monstrous creature, but it's like, this is who this woman
is kind of craving, but it's he says, it's not me,

(30:27):
it's your nature.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
When she's saying, I did.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
A lot of talk to text in my notes, so
they don't they did not all transcribe. Oh maybe says she
has him in her body, and he says, it's not me,
it's your nature, which is like, don't blame it on me, baby,
you wondered along.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
Right, there's feeling like a little bit of a love
triangle almost of like one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
But he's not really a person to her. It's more
just her feelings of lust and the shame that goes
with it.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Yeah, he's a representation of her shame.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Oh this did feel like men blaming their actions on
the women who tempt them. She's literally just trying to
exist and then now this monstrous beast. But she's just
trying to exist and he did kind of invade her mind.
So there's still not a ton of agency on her part,
but it seems to be because of her limited ability
in the era. This happened in modern times, you know,

(31:17):
totally different story fuck out.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, and then she could just get a vibrator.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
This is like, instead of having a dildo, she has
a monstrous beast, which you know, I get it.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
I like I got it. I was like, I get it,
Like this is me growing up.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, but he's threatening her. You know, they're not on
the best of terms. It's kind of like submit to
me or I'm going to kill everyone.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
He says she has to come to him of her
own free will, but he doesn't really give her free
will because he starts like killing everyone.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, her life, like her best friend and their kids
and their kids. I kind of respect it.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
When a movie kills a kid, that sounds bad coming out,
but it's like a it's like when you kill a
dog in a move, be like, oh, are they going.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
To really do it?

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Because usually those characters are safe. It means they committed.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah. I was not expecting the kids to die, and
I was like.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Oh shit, okay, it jars you and they're fictional, so
it's okay.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
But yeah, So she has three days, but in the
meantime until she comes to him, he starts ruining her
fucking life.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
It's not that's not the best agency here. Like she's
no real content has been had. Yeah, we should we
should acknowledge that.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
She even tries to kind of solve this by having
aggressive sex with her husband.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
She go to him, it's like, oh, you don't please
me as much as him.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
So he's like, well, I mean show you, and then
has aggressive sex and just like, well, fuck it out
of you, then bitch. Yeah, but he was trying, he
was trying something, well yeah, and she was like show him,
show him, I love yeah, whatever, like bleeding out to
be like, no, see my husband's I'll like him. Yeah,
you can get away from me, And then prof Fronds

(32:58):
he develops his plan to kill and from this old
text he reads is understanding that she has to be
the person to do it, and that was true to
the original movie because I read a little synopsis of that,
and in the original there was also the theme that
it had to be a fair maiden who was willing
to sacrifice herself that would free them from the distraction

(33:21):
of nos Faratu. So they trick her husband into going
on his own little fool's errand to kill orlock and
he ends up just stabbing one of his underlings, which
happens to be his former boss.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
It's kind of funny.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Yeah, the boss that sent him to Transylvania was working
for Nosvarada.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
The whole time.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, So Thomas is out of the way, and now
Ellen willingly accepts knows Faratu into her bedroom. So we
know Ellen must be the one to invite in No
Saratu to complete this prophecy. And Fern says that in
heathen times she might have been a great priest of Isis,
but in modern times she is her salvation. Isis is

(34:02):
a Greek mythology character, right, it's.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Not just a terrorist miss Yeah, I totally might be yep. Yeah.
And Egyptian mythology, Isis was the daughter of Geb, the
god of the earth, and Nut, the goddess of the sky.
What a name.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Her magical powers were that she resurrected Osiris after her
brother cut him into pieces. She's associated with healing, magic,
women and children, associated with protection.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
It sounds like in femininity probably Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
And so with the port of Fronds, she's clear minded.
She's ready to take on this evil all alone. At
this point, she's fearless, there's no like trepidation about it.
She fully just tricks Thomas into going off to get
out of her way, and then she's like, Okay, our luck,
let's fucking go get it. Yeah, And then as Thomas
sees what's going on, he's running home to save her.

(34:55):
But she's having a pretty good time being fucked and
drained by r luck.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
I'm not seeing it. I feel she has consented at
this point. There's a lot of it isn't really consent
where it's like you have to do this, or like
the world will in probably not. Those are kind of yeah,
you're right, that's a sense of I mean.

Speaker 4 (35:12):
Maybe when she gets there, she's like, fuck it, I
already have to do this, might as well enjoy it
while I'm here.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
I guess that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
That can interesting because you think about consent and enjoyment
going hand in hand. But is it a situation where
she hasn't consented but she is still enjoying the experience
now that she is able to. I think it's that
now that she's able to do it without shame, now
she feels like she's doing the right thing.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
Right before it was like this is the moral thing.
Now yeah, because you're saving people.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Which I think speaks to this evolution of like in
the beginning, she's tied down, she's denying herself, she's trying
to reconcile what's going on. There's this force in her
mind that I think if I mean, it did sort
of penetrate her, so to speak, but it also unlocked
something that she wanted, but she didn't want to want it.
And now it's like I can just give in. I'm

(36:02):
making this choice even though my husband doesn't want it.
She doesn't do what her husband wants or what you know,
her friends maybe would have actually know her friends would
have wanted that because they were like, I'm really sick
of like dying.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
Yeah, like for you bring a plague upon our city. Yeah,
continue to murder everyone that you know and love, please.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Thanks so much.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
And then we do finally get to see Orlock's full
body rotting in full view. Yeah, and I guess he
just kind of loses track of time because the sun
comes up and that's what kills him.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Yes, that was the whole plan, because there's a point
where he starts to see the sun, and then she
says and so he keeps feeding from her because he
just can resist her.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
And then he's like, oh, fuck the sun.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
You think he would have just I mean, I guess
it was fulfilling some kind of it seemed like some
kind of prophecy or like it was told.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
Yeah, their connection with each other seems like really random otherwise,
like her calling out when she's a let's say, preteen.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, he's like, I got that.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
Call all the way over here, Like they're obviously connected.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
This is like Mint who happened this way his old time.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
He telephone rings, he picks up the like the ear
piece and then speaks into the mouthpiece. How else is he?
I mean, I guess it just got into his brain somehow.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
It's it does it's supernatural beings in a sense, Like
she's got psychic stuff happening, so you know, she's an
open psychic vessel, so to speak. But yeah, so we
see his grotted corpse body, because at the end of
the day, that's what he is. He's a reanimated corpse, right,
that's what he is. That was a great fucking shot, though,

(37:39):
just like going up from the top and they're both
dead and you see him and there's all these.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Flowers they come from. Doesn't matter matter because its esthetic.
That shot will go down in history. I swear to God,
it was. Yes, it was beautiful.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Maybe in our extended cut it was even a little
bit longer.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
He's a longer shot.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
And I felt that this contrast of like this ancient
rotting male force over this beautiful but like it was
she now corrupted young woman was supposed to be some
kind of like ooh, like.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
The economy like good evil. Yeah, but like they both
like needed each other in a way, and he like
decorrupt her. Did you finally self actualize? And then Franz
picks up her cat and like looks out hopefully into
the sunlight, which I felt, you know, I felt that
the cats meant something.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yes, the cats, Yeah, they have to be in something right.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Also, we just trust a man who likes cats, true,
good sign.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Yeah, and the opposite is also true. Do not trust
a man who doesn't like cats?

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Absolutely, Because there was a real that was not scientific
at all, but that I watched anyway that was saying
that not liking cats is a sign of not respecting set. No,
you know what it was. I was listening to Andrew Huberman.
Actually I'm getting my wires crossed. Oh, I haven't said
that phrase a long time. I wouldn't say that a
lot more now it's code for being spacey. But Andrew Huberman,

(39:03):
who is a total dick but also like a very
very intelligent scientist who has this podcast, the Hubreman Lab.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
He's fucking great.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
But he also like had five girlfriends at the same
time and was doing IVF treatment with one of them
and then cheating with a bunch of other way, he's
a scoundrel.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
So we hate him. We do hate him. But anyways,
on his podcast, he said he said that he does
not like cats as much as he likes dogs. And
he literally said, oh, it's because like with cats, you know,
you have to earn their consent and everything. You have
to work for it, Like my dog just loves me.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
He just said it. He said the quiet part out loud,
and I was like, well, of course you fucking do,
Andrew Huberman. Of course you don't like the cats. You
have to actually respect them.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
How surprising anytime someone says that to me, I automatically,
you know kind of person.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
They're like, yo, I just.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
Like dogs better because like dogs, Obey you. I was like, oh, wow,
there it is Obey Boyle.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
That's what he said.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Knowing his horrible history with women, didn't surprise me in
the slightest.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
It's a sign everybody. If a man doesn't like cats.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Professor Frundz liked cats. I assume Thomas did because he
lived with their cat too for the time, so you know.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
I think he pet the cat at one point in
the movie. Maybe maybe I'm pet.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Mad One's cat.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Let's take our a second break and then we'll come
back and talk about podcasts we've listened to and kind
of just general film stuff.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, all right, we're back. I was just saying off
the air, we're I don't okay.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
I guess we were talking about her husband's movie preferences
and cats and things.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Just just props to Alexis that her and her husband
never like bicker in front of us and like do
the like my mama and like the couple's oh god,
hating around people who do not. It's indefable.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
No, my ex always wanted to like start fights in
front of people, and like I hate that. Like even
if you're mad at me, like put on a face, keep.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
It to yourself.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Yeah, get alone, Like yes, unless I'm doing something that
you need to like be like Alexis, your drunk flea,
stop you know, like trying to whatever in problic.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Like no, like don't do that.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, I guess Aaron and I did that a lot
because we just hated each other so much at the
you know, same time as loving each other, which I've
decided to name him now because he would fucking enjoy it. Oh,
he so cares like, but it didn't ocur to me
at the time. I wouldn't do that now. That was
that was early twenties days.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
Yeah, but everyone has that relationship to where it's just
like you guys are like so toxic for each other,
but like you're so in love and like, yeah, for
each other, but all I want to.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Fucking stab you. Yeah, dynamic, Yeah, that tense.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
That's kind of me and my experts, like we fucking
hated each other, but also like don't leave me.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
But that's how I really tell the memes that are
like dating someone who likes you is actually crazy.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
It's so fucking weird, you guys. But I promise all
the culture around like, wow, how do sexual couples absolutely
despise each other? A lot of them do. I just
saw like a series of memes and a carousel that
were like, oh, it's dating me, like, and he says,
it's like having an erection of migraine at the same time, like,
fuck you, that's what Like it was supposed to be

(42:07):
like a cute meme and I'm like, that's that's awful. No,
migraines are prop stress. Yeah, things and triggers. Right, I'm
attracted to you. But also you're saying yeah, like I
don't want to.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, if you don't.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
Say rainbows and butterflies and like I'm floating on the cloud,
then die get out.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Also, uh, it's your birthday, so I'll say one more
flattering thing, which I hope doesn't embarrass you. But I
was being a little psycho about my ex and I
wanted to like sabotage his career, and I decided not
too out of the graciousness in my heart and because
he groppled so effectively, which I appreciated, he did the
whole like, oh, I only pulled away because I was
feeling so vulnerable and like I liked you so much,

(42:45):
and he was like telling me all these compliments and
let you let up the room, and oh, the worst
part is losing you.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
I literally checked the phone away from my ear was
like I don't want to hear that. Shut up. I
don't want to hear you buttering me up. I'm not
interesting your manipulative words. Go away, get out of here,
taking the phone away for my ear, Yeah, be gone,
satan exactly. Anyway, I was going down that path a
couple months ago, and I was trying to find some
information and I asked Alexis for kind of like access

(43:10):
to this information through an account.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
She had it.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Instead of being like, are you sure, like do you
want to take a step back, she was like, yes, queen,
here you go Ceeia.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Hire this woman. Hey, yeah, that's women supporting women. You
want to be crazy, I'm on it with you.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
I mean if you were gonna, like, you know, drive
up to his workplace, they were to stop you. But
you know, for just looking up stuff. You know, it's
just it's good to have. I just I like to
have blackmail fought or just mean, I'm gonna use it.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
I just want to have it. And I ended up
not so it all worked out.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
But yeah, if your friends are trying to do that,
they're probably gonna do it anyway.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
You know, that's my thing.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
It's like and also otherwise it's gonna eat at your brain,
like you just need to do it and get it
over with and like not think about it and then
it's it's done.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I even posted on my story like I'm looking for
a crazy girl who works in this industry who will
help me, and I got a bunch of people being
like what you need.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
I love the community that women build with each other.
It's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Okay, So we were going to talk about what we in,
what we ingested after this movie because I know there
were some podcasting.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Was there anything you listened to too want to bring up?

Speaker 3 (44:12):
First listen to No?

Speaker 4 (44:14):
But I read an article that I thought was really
vulnerable and well written and like it came from like
a really weird source which was also weird.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
It was like a horror movie website.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
But this woman is writing about seeing nos Faratu and
how for her it was such an exact allegory for
being like sexually assaulted and like r journey with it
where it's like she had an X that was like
an abuser to her and she felt like a lot
of the similar things where it's like this person did
something to you in a vulnerable state and they're constantly
like haunting you. And telling you that, like the person

(44:45):
you're with will never be enough for you, and like
I'm the only thing that can like satiate you, and
literally being like physically.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Almost present in your body, yes, yeah, invading, Yeah, And
I think that is definitely present or for sure, like
her dealing with this, I mean, like we said, it
did something happen, like we don't know either way, it
was something that was like very profound for her, like
it was a life altering moment. The difference of that

(45:13):
interpretation might also depend on if the viewer had an
experience like that or more like what we were describing
of shame around sexuality and then overcoming that, because that's
more personal to me. But if you lived through that invasion,
that horrible molestation as a child, then you're gonna see
this differently.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
But I think that's what is so interesting about this
story is like you can kind of interpret it in
so many different ways. And there was a lot of
symbolism in I haven't read Dracula, but I've like seen
a play like a million years ago, and like we
all know the story, YadA YadA. But the difference with
like Dracula versus No s Faratu is Dracula's based in
like Victorian England, and Victorian times were much more repressed

(45:53):
and women's sexuality was much more vilified than it was
in like the eighteen thirties, So like that kind of
kind of knowing when he was writing it as well,
like that was the idea of what he was trying
to do, was to make female sexuality be something that was,
you know, horror inducing, but also something that needed to
be liberated.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Robert Aggers said in an interview, he mentioned, we have
these male characters that are physically tying her down, they're
tying her corset. But he said it's not meant He said,
it's not meant to be a specific message, because the
beauty of art is that it's open for interpretation, especially.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
With these archetype stories.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
So these fantasies where it's like we have the maiden
and we have the villain, like those are very easy
to interpret in the context of different kind of folklore themes. Yeah,
Lily Rose with the interview I watched with her, she
says too, it's not so simple as a woman being
taken advantage of, because there's this yearning coming for her side.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
What was cool?

Speaker 2 (46:46):
William was also in this interview, and he was like
nodding or shaking his head, like actively listening to her
because I was watching him because I like looking at
his very interesting face.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
I really hope he's not problematic.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
I hope so too. I get I get good vibes,
but I've been wrong. Also, we haven't been around him
in person. Sometimes that makes a really big difference, you know, totally.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
But when someone asked her, isn't Ellen a victim? He
does this like tight shake of his head. It wasn't
like interrupt, but he like shakes his head now, and
Lily Rose responds, No, Ellen's kind of calling the shots
like the whole time, and will like not to himself
because his character is in support of her. I wouldn't
say Ellen's fully calling the shots, but she is trying
to come into her own and make her own choices.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah. I saw some critique about people being upset that he.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Said that she wasn't a victim. See that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
It's like this movie is a lot more complicated than
I thought it was on the original first viewing. Just
like kind of going through and preparing for this episode,
it's like, Wow, I just kind of took it like
you did, where it's just like this is about female sexuality,
and this is about like the shame of like owning yourself,
especially during these times, and YadA YadA. But apparently also
it's maybe it's an allegory for a lot more things,

(47:56):
because people were saying even in the original Dracula, like
PTS has always been like kind of a theme throughout
of it as well, and like fear has always.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Been a theme.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
Also, there's original kind of probably a lot of anti
immigration themes as well original, but we.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Can get into that more. Did you even think about
what immigrating to Germany?

Speaker 4 (48:17):
Yeah, it's unfortunately probably pretty anti Semitic. The way they
describe him is kind of like the archetype of like
a Jewish character.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Big Coach knows.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Big Coach knows.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
He came from an area that was at the time
going through a lot of like unrest and anti Semitic acts,
and there was a lot of Jewish people like migrating
to England at the time, and there's always a fear
of like the opposite like and colonizer of nations where
it's like, now the people that we oppressed are going
to come here and like we're going to be the minority,
and like they're gonna whatever, they're backwards or this or that.

(48:49):
Him coming and bringing plague and him coming and being
being from a place where they still do sacrifices and
all this stuff, and him being like animalistic by like
drinking blood. It's kind of also problematic at the time
of like this fear of the other.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, I didn't think about that at all.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
I mean, that's that's an original. I feel like in
this that wasn't as present, right, but that was. I mean,
that's still part of the story. It's like there's still
a quote unquote foreigner coming and bringing a plague, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Which they were represented with rats, which was cool because
then there's a physical manifestation. But still they were driven
by him that it was his origin. And this movie
was requested for us to review, which means that our
listeners and our audience was also thinking about these multiple contexts, which.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Is cool because we got such smart people listening. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
But yeah, I didn't realize how much of a kind
of feminist rabbit hole this would turn into, really, and
I don't think everyone's quite caught on. Not like the
substance which was like known as like a feminist movie,
and that hasn't quite caught on, but maybe because of
this podcast it will. Yeah, And I think the difference
is to the original like Dracula stories and No Saratu stories,

(49:56):
Ellen isn't or the Ellen character isn't the main focus.
Like this is one of the first times that it's
been from her point of view, Like she's the main character.
It's her story versus like a man's story.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
And I heard Robert Eggers say that that he actually
had a lot of problems with the original Dracula novel,
like he wanted to remake noes Faratu not Dracula. He
said that he thought the story would have more emotional
depth with a female lead.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yep, it's fucking cool.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Like this was intentionally about her journey, not about Thomas,
who's kind of a sweet simp.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
You know. His whole character is just like adoring her
and trying to get back to her, right, which we love.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
He wasn't like cheating on her or anything like, No,
Thomas is like he's into his girl.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Yeah, he was the doting wife character.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
It's great.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
I just read the Wikipedia page, so I can't say
like in my reading of Dracula. But apparently in the
original Dracula there was some homosexuality.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Hmmm.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
Apparently Dracula quote unquote penetrates Harker and drinks his blood,
and there was there's actually theories that bram Stoker was
actually clear woo, which I found very interesting. Apparently hung
out with Oscar Wilde and apparently had a very quote
unquote sexless marriage.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Well I'm sold if he was ask for whiles. But yeah,
I mean, yeah, he's at least comfortable with queer people.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
Yeah, if nothing else, Dracula's canonly chaotic bisexual, so I
think at the end of the day, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Don't remember that in the book, but I haven't read
it for like ten years, right, and I don't know
if it's been like changed over the years, because it's like,
you know, obscene on you.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
But yeah, according to Wikipedia, that was definitely in the original,
and apparently there was sentences of Harker being it elated
by the thought of being penetrated.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
According to Wikipedia.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Vampires are very sexual with the sucking of the blood.
It's definitely emulating a certain penetration of your being, even
if it's not phallic explicitly.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
But they got those teas. You know they're sinking something
into you. I get it.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah, yeah, there's a reason why all thirteen year old
girls go through a certain phase.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
I feel, yes, yeah, vampires are you know, they're sexy.
When we grew up, like even when we were super young,
it was like am rice vampires, Like you got Interview
the Vampire, which is a very sexy movie, and then
you know you got the Twilights and the Yadi YadA
blood yep and True Blood and.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
My favorite shift for a long time, it wouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I got a line from Pam the Sassy Vampire Friend
that I've got to use a few times where it
was like a lady shouldn't be walking a night or
a lady shouldn't something. She says, Well, if I see one,
I'll let her know. It was kind of bad, good
in my interpretation, so bad. It was just fun and
campy and stupid, but good.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
I got it, Like I was like, I get this,
but like I'm not gonna go on my way to
watch it, Like I understand, and I appreciate.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
We have a new Patreon subscriber, casey, we'd have Cacy.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
I promised the edited episode with Brie with the bad
audio quality but the chaotic nature. I don't know where
that episode is. I think it's on my hard drive.
I will look for it. Otherwise, Patreon just doesn't have ads,
and it helps us keep doing what we do. You
get a discount on merch. We just cheap enough that
we're not really making a profit off answer. You should
go buy that merch before I try to raise the price.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have to raise them presses.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Yeah, it's just stupid issues with taxes and things. Otherwise,
we're on Discord, We're on Reddit, you can email us,
you can find us all over the internet.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
We even have a po box now. Yeah, and I
think that's all we got for today. We could close
it out. I am Sandris Memes on Instagram and.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
I amtxcoth GFF and we are sad Gap dot podcast.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
Like I was saying, you can email us Sadgap dot
podcasts at gmail dot com, visit our website sadgapdash podcast
dot com, find us all over the internet Patreon dot com,
slash sad Gap is the place to go.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
Yeah, and go on over to your podcast lot from
a choice and give us a five star rating. If
you could go on over to Apple and write us
a review. We'd love to hear what you have to
say or rate, review, subscribe and share with a friend.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Please to quote Willem Dafoe's character Prof. Fronds, God is
beyond our morals. I thought it was a cool line
that gets it, like kind of Christianity of it, and
also like her moral thing going on doesn't fucking matter
because like this is just happening anyway.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Yeah, I get it, and we're stronger together.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
We'll see you next time. Bye bye,