85: On How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Clown Timeline

Super PACs, lobbyists, deep fakes, oh my! We're not too thrilled about the fact that politicians are motivated by money & power rather than the interests of their constituents. While echo chambers and the culture war keep us divided to our detriment. If we could find common ground, we might viva la revolution. This 'reality contradicts the messaging' extends to corporate girlbossery, too - because if you've been told gender equality has been achieved, you've been lied to. But we've got ideas on how to make some difference, or at least how to soothe your mind to make life more tolerable. Alt title: believing a politician cares about you is like believing the stripper likes you.

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ig: @sadgap.podcast / @misandristmemes / @txgothgf / music producer @iamjonnibrooks.eth 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to Sad Girls Against the Patriarchy. I'm
Alison and I'm Alexis, and we are your Sad Girls.
Having some technical difficulties, but no need to stand by.
We're going to start anyway. Today is Hypernormalization Part two.
Brief announcement is that we're working on our merch store
and because of annoying behind the scenes tax and production

(00:42):
costs related issues, things might be getting a little more
expensive as they are in the world all around, in
the world that we live in. So this would be
a good time to buy a shirt, or a notebook
or a tote bag. Do we have any phone case
phone cases? It is sadgaph podcast dot com slash merch.

(01:05):
You can click on the design you want and then
you can click on the product you want and then
you could purchase it. I don't know. We're gonna add
another design. There's an independent artist who made something beautiful
for us that we're very excited to share. It's us. Yeah,
if they do us, it's cute. It's really cute. That
will be coming up soon. To have any other admin

(01:27):
related business, I don't think so. Online things are happening,
and today I'm going to do my piece of hypernormalization.
If you would like to get a little more context
for this, we went into the history of it last week,
but you don't need to. There are no prerequisites needed.

(01:49):
It's kind of a two parter. But also if you
skipped last week, that's okay, keep listening.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
It's just such a big topic that we needed two episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yes, I would rather do to function. Yes, I agree.
I'm just over explaining today. I'm in that, like, let's
just say every single word that's in your brain out loud,
and that is something as an adult I have learned
to not do sometimes.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, sometimes I try to be really concise and people
are like what and I'm like, okay, so and I
do like them Like, I don't know how else to
explain this.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I was working on something with a guide today and
he was on his laptop and I asked him a question,
and he said, how do you always ask me questions
when I'm doing other things? You expect me to multitask?
Like geez, every time Alexis and I are doing stuff together,
there's there's a lot of multitasking going on. Yeah, I
don't know how people don't multitask. I don't like monotasking.

(02:44):
I hate it, and this is a thing that people say,
like dudes can't multitask. I don't know if that is
backed by any psychology or it's just a stereotype.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
I would love to look into that because just based
on my own data collection observation phase, that's what I
have personally seen.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Maybe we could wrap that in episode with women's intuition,
because that's another thing that is tropy and maybe there's data.
Maybe it's just women having to be more on guard
and protect their safety by developing intuitive skills.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Right, I think we probably noticed patterns of behavior better
because we have to.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, it's like a survival skill of like, Okay, when
I get treated this way usually leads to harassment, so
I need to avoid that kind of a thing.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
They do have data on for nurses, like the nurse intuition,
like the gut feeling. We're just like, oh, I just
I don't know, I have a bad feeling about this patient.
They've done data on that, and it's something it's something ridiculous.
We don't have the exact NRB, but something like ninety
percent of the time it's like accurate or some shit.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
So that's crazy. Yeah, so I feel.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Good about looking into women's intuition because we have some
data on a very feminized field.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
There's that. Yeah, And I wonder if people who are
more empathetic or more drawn to those jobs so they
have already stronger sense of empathy, which I would think
would lead to a better gut feeling about something because
you're more in tune with other people. Right, that's cool. Yeah.
An idea popped in my head that I wanted to
be an EMT, which I'm seeing all over the internet
is EMS not emergency medical technician, but.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
They must say the rest have changed it because EMS
is like emergency. From my understanding was emergency medical services.
So that's like you're calling an ambulance like the and
like also dispatch like right, EMT is like your emergency
medical tech.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
That makes sense. Person, Well, when if I do that?
If when, then alexis there are going to be the
apocalyptic dream team. That's right? That you want to be
nice to us? Yeah, if you want us to save
your ass after the zombie bite, you know, we're gonna
have to cut off the arm. We're gonna have to
turn a care We're going to cauterize the wound. I've
watched a lot of movies. I'm basically ready. Yep. It's

(04:52):
health care is just like the movies. That's one thing
I can true completely Gray's Anatomy completely accurate.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Oh yeah, I I love it when the doctors hang
on my antibiotics for me.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
It's super nice of them. They be doing a lot
in those movies. Yeah, Well, the apocalypse probably won't be
that dramatic, but hypernormalization, unfortunately, is a concept that leads
well into apocalyptic discussion. I do think the apocalypse will
be more just like resources becoming more limited, poor people

(05:25):
losing access to medical care, dying on their own, not
being like murdered in the streets, but more just like
not having clean water or medical aid. Well, the way
things are going right now, I think that's just around
the corner. Yeah, maybe within our lifetime, definitely within our
children's lifetime if we have it. I'll try to twist

(05:46):
this into patriarchy feminism related issues, but it's more of
a it's a global problem, and patriarchy is certainly a
culprit of that big time. Actually, I think if women
were in charge, you wouldn't be on this path. I agree, Yeah,
maybe biased. Well, we did the Matriarchis episode and they
were much more peaceful. So I think there is some

(06:10):
evidence to support this. And for all the guys who
are like I could never have a lady president, what
about when she gets her period? What about when Kyle
punch as a hole in the wall. Yeah, and maybe
we can point to these communities, of these matriarchies where
they are more co living situations, more community oriented, more peaceful.

(06:30):
They have existed, yep, but instead we live in this
reality so clown time, we live in clown timeline. That's
what Alexis came up with. I think it's very apt.
So my brief brief introduction to hypernormalization that hopefully I'm
not misrepresenting, but makes the most sense to me, just

(06:53):
to recoup what Alexis went over last week. It was
coined by an anthropologist in the Soviet Union in the
nineteen seventies, and he was looking at how they were
not on any kind of path to a utopia like
people wanted, and the system was very clearly not working
and national leaders knew this. But instead of trying to

(07:13):
educate people, trying to make a change, instead we just
keep the propaganda machine going and stay on the path
that we are on and pretend like everything's normal. Yeah,
just business as usual. Okay, Yeah, I'm picturing like there's
like a V in the road, there's a point where
something changed, and we're going to the right, but we're
going to pretend we're going to the left, because if

(07:35):
we acknowledge what's really happening, there would be riding in
the streets. Yes, so let's see. I wrote these notes
last week, so we'll see if they make sense today.
But it says first in all ways, but literally, I
am a gross and showered internetrol trudging through the internet.
So that's where we started start. Yeah, I am a

(07:55):
gross internet troll, you know, the guy with the open bathrobe,
the pistol in the pocket and the mirror on the table.
Like I've been really feeling that energy of just like
swaggering around having crazy thoughts that are actually justified.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
That's that's the problem with what's going on right now too,
is that, uh, we're all having crazy thoughts that are
kind of true.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yes, I'm not really sure what the unchowered troll thing
how that leads into the next, but maybe we'll sort
back to you in shower that day. I don't know.
I don't usually you know what, You have natural oils
on your body. They're healthy. Okay, you're not not right,
I know. Also, you don't have to shampoo your hair
every day stripping out its oils. Okay. So to start

(08:40):
off with here, to bring hyper normalization into the current climate.
Political campaigns are manufactured in many ways. In other words,
believing a politician cares about you is like believing the
stripper really cares about you. The stripper likes you, Yeah,
ask her out. Yeah. My family's very conservative, and they

(09:01):
were talking about Biden and kind of a they were
shit talking him when he was president and being like,
I know you like him. Like, no, I don't like
what are you talking about? But I think that conservative
people sometimes do appreciate their politicians in a way that
Democrats don't, at least in my world, in my echo chamber,
I do not think any of our Democratic leaders care

(09:24):
about us in the slightest or have our best interests
at heart. No, in any way.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's what I think's funny about Republicans, though. They're like,
if you're not with me, that means you like the
other thing. What if I told you there's a secret, third, fourth,
and sixth option here.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, I think if we had a parliament, it would
be such a different country. That's god, yeah, kind of
a separate rant. But many countries have maybe like nine
twelve political parties that you can choose from, and then
they'll have multiple parties represented in in a parliament, like a
coalition kind of thing. I think that's the right word.
Maybe a caucus. I don't know, just throwing words out

(10:01):
there as if I know what I mean. And here instead,
we've created this US versus them culture war that is
turning the country into I think a blue versus red.
It just I hate even just talking about like, well
Republicans this and Democrats this, because people are more nuanced
than that. Yes, so we voted for Biden, I voted
for Harris. I do vote Democrat. It doesn't mean I

(10:23):
like them.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, it's just it's, honestly, at this point, lesser of
two evils.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Exactly, and I wish it weren't. I wish I had
like ten evils to choose from. I think that would
be amazing. But they are establishment candidates who are pretty
much owned by unseen forces, and I don't think that
the power that we think we hold as a constituent
is real at all? No anymore, No alexis went in

(10:49):
New York in was it the seventies or the eighties,
nineteen seventy five when there was this change of the
city needing to borrow against the banks and then being
owned owned by financial institutions. It sounds like before then
there might have actually been politicians who wanted to represent
the interest of the.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
People, and politicians that I could actually make change and
wanted to make change and it was in their best
interest to make change.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
This is just like what.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Absolutely foreign to us growing up in the early two thousands.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
And I'm guessing you could like buy a house at
the time. What bonkers honkers. So I took a look
at an article that was called Mobilizing Manufactured Reality, How
participatory disinformation shaped deep stories to catalyze action during the
twenty twenty US presidential election. That was a mouthful. I

(11:41):
was about to say that was words words. Yeah, every
time I read a quote, I'm like and words insert
words here. Yes, but this is about the twenty twenty
elections specifically, and about disinformation being intentionally shared. So, and
this is a journal article was published on ACM dot org,
which is the Association for Computing Machinery Journal. So disinformation

(12:06):
spread twenty twenty election. There are three case studies referenced
here that were assessing it was very science y. I
just have a lot of science words in my notes,
which I think validates the efficacy of the article. But
it was about the narrative that the election was stolen
and how that was not randomly shared. It wasn't like

(12:29):
that just kind of caught on. Instead, these stories were
spread on purpose, and it was influencers. And there was
a term deep stories, which I guess is kind of
represented like a state is. Yeah, it's kind of deep
state esque. Yeah, Like I was reading about that.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Like Fox News even got sued for saying that there
was voter from the twenty twenty election. Yeah, it was
like a national new quote unquote news channel spouting this
as well.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
But this article just made it seem intentional. I think
news outlets and I think prominent influencers and maybe the
individuals can be less culpable where it's like, yeah, your
kooky uncle who re shared something didn't know. Sure, But
the source of that was an intentional effort that led
to the January sixth insurrection.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
So every time I think about January sixth and the
fact that like.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
He wasn't tried for treason, I do it's just so funny.
Doesn't make sense. It can clown timeline.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
It is clone timeline, literally a coup on our Capitol building.
And the same people who say like blue lives matter,
like beat up in assaulted cops, I know, like what
it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, it's idiocracy in full swing, which we talked in
a past episode about kind of Yeah, there are some
faults with that movie and it isn't perfect. No, it
isn't perfect, but ah man, and I'm gonna get more
into today about I don't want it to just be like, Wow,
these stupid Republicans, Well they're not. It's just people are

(14:03):
vulnerable and they're being taken advantage of and being they're
being fed literal fake news.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, that's what sucks, is like we're all doing bad
because of the shit that we talked about in the
last episode, Like things are just fucked up and these
people are feeling disenfranchised, and then the Republicans found a
boogeyman for them to like point their fingers at, be
like these are the people that you should be mad at,
and then why would they think otherwise.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
And they're not, and we shouldn't. We don't need to
be mad at them either, these individuals. We should be
mad at the news sources absolutely, the people who are
intentionally spreading misinformation with the purpose of getting an outcome,
a political outcome. So this is, yeah, just building this
foundation to say things are not what they seem and
you don't even have to look very hard.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Unfortunately, No, And it's becoming more and more transparent with
this uh starting of the Trump presidency.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
They're just going for it. They're just doing it. And
AI is now being used to create text images videos.
We used to call them deep fakes, but now they're
just AI generated videos and that's it creates a lot
of risk for not being able to believe what you
see on the internet, even things related to a political campaign. Yep.
And I don't believe that people are getting more We're

(15:12):
not like scrutinizing things more carefully. We're just like, oh, yeah,
there's kind of an acceptance when you see something online
like yeah, it might be AI, I might not, but
you're still influenced by it depending on who they are.
But there was a nonprofit that was called Open Secrets,
and immediately I got pop ups like please give us
money so we can keep sharing government secrets, and I

(15:33):
was like, yeah, I should, but I wanted maybe later.
All put on my to do this to Wikipedia, thirsting
for three dollars, I feel you. I gave five dollars
one time, and then I'll let it go. Never will.
But I went there because I was looking for a
definition of super packs, because I didn't really understood what
those were. I just knew that they were bad and
they had to do with money and controlling politicians instead

(15:53):
of politicians actually giving a shit about us. So they
are officially known as independent expenditure only committees, and they
can raise and they can spend an unlimited amount of
money from corporations. It's corporation funded and they use it
to either support or to not support a candidate. But

(16:14):
they can't donate directly to the candidate, or they can't
coordinate directly with their campaign staff. But they're able to
indirectly affect bribe them. So it's I was trying to
understand that too, because so like, who runs a super pac?
So it's run by political strategists lobbyists, often people who

(16:34):
have worked as campaign strategists. It's funded by billionaires, mega donors, corporations.
Special interest groups and interest groups are like associations individuals
that are formally organized sharing a concern who want to
influence public policy. So like the NRA, and yes, I
know those are a great special interest group. Yes, so

(16:55):
then how do they get this control without breaking the
rules about level of involvement. Massive ad buys controlling messages,
targeting the opposition, and grooming candidates before they run for office, like, Hey,
we'll get you into office and we'll destroy your opposition,
and you know, now we're going to be friends. I doubt.

(17:18):
I don't know. I mean, I've only watched House of Cards.
That's the extent of my political knowledge. I doubt. It's
like a handshake deal of like and then you're gonna
do whatever we want. But it is known you become
dependent on someone if they buy you into office, then
you have some sort of leverage. Yeah, it's leverage, is
what it is. So we have these special interest groups

(17:40):
that are funded by corporations. It's like interplay that's so
insanely an ethic goal where super packs lead to this
huge pot of money and the goal is to control
the leaders that supposedly represent us, and they accomplish that
goal every year and we all know about it. And
I'm not saying we're responsible for stopping because I don't

(18:02):
even know if it's stoppable.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
I don't think it is. Do you know the like
TikTok trend like what radicalized you? And like people tell
their stories like what radicalized them? No, I keep thinking
about it, and I mean that's all this like what
radicalize you and it's some sort of story anecdote. I
keep thinking about it, like what radicalized me in and
I think it was this like finding like lobbying was
legal and like corporations by yeah, like finding out this

(18:26):
was like a thing and it was legal and just
like people just blatantly do it and like nothing matters.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
I was like, oh, well fuck yeah. I mean it's
it seems like the NRA can just approach an up
and coming candidate and be like, we will we have
this relationship with a super pack because it says it's
special interest groups that are networking with massive corporations billionaires.
So let's put it in like really simple terms. So

(18:52):
like you're uh with the NRA and you're working with
a billionaire and you're approaching a candidate, and you're saying,
we will create ads to destroy your opposition and make
sure that you get this position, and then we're gonna
be friends, right wink. And now that person it doesn't
matter what they believed going in you Also, it doesn't
sound like politicians have access to those positions unless they

(19:15):
do this right, because you end up with those like
grassroots efforts like Bernie Sanders, where it's like, oh, he's
funded by like a million, twenty seven dollars donations. He
didn't fucking win. He didn't get the support of the DNC. No,
he didn't get the he didn't become our candidate as
a Democrat. He could have bet. I believe this for sure.
He could have been Trump because you have thousand persons
the same kind of energy around him. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I think a lot of people, unfortunately that were Bernie supporters,
voted for Trump because they just wanted someone that was
like not different, part of the machine.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, and that's what their whole thing was.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
And it's like, okay, so we could have had some
soft socialism, but now we have fascism.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Cool, But I mean people
did vote for Bernie, didn't he like win the popular
vote for becoming the candidate in California, But then the
DNC didn't end up nominating him as the formal Democratic candidate.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I don't remember all the details, but I remember everyone
being very surprised because Bernie had so much like everyone
supported Bernie.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
The Democratic National Committee gets to decide who is going
to run as the Democrat, it was my understanding, and
they did not pick Bernie, and they should have and
that's because they thought Hillary was more elected. Unfortunate, Please, Unfortunately,
we still live in a place where I don't think
a woman's gonna win for a while. I hate to
say that, but I really don't. She wasn't like, she

(20:32):
wasn't likable. Fortunately, that does nothing to do with her femaleness.
It's just but also, especially as a woman, you have
to overcome a thousand times more at that level too.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, it's it's just that was not a good choice,
and neither was Biden.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
No, but I don't the people did not elect him.
Like what I wanted to extend from hypernormalization is just
how I mean, obviously we know, like it's corrupt and
it's flawed, but more just like how dis didn't the
leadership and the policymakers are from the people. These are

(21:06):
the barriers, super packs, lobbyists, these are these are the
things to tear down. Except I don't know how it's
a lobbyists. Let's go to lobby ast next, because I
kind of knew but didn't really know. So they are.
A lobbyist is a person who is paid to communicate
directly with government officials. So the literal job is to

(21:27):
influence the legislative action on behalf of their client a client,
And this is a regulated job. So they are supposed
to register as a lobbyist if they spend more than
twenty percent of their time lobbying for a client. So
there is this is supposed to be like known and
above board, and if you have this job, you need
to register. And then I'm imagining that there's some tracking

(21:49):
of what you're doing. I guess it's not just like
they get to go cretzy, you know, so he for
all this, I don't know. I linked to some articles
about like federal regulations for lobbyists where I just pulled
a bit, but I did read about something called shadow lobbying,
which refers to all the people who don't register, and
I'm sure there's a lot. You will be unsurprised to

(22:12):
learn that companies like Amazon, Google, and Exxon Mobiles have
internal lobbying teams and their whole job is to push
their policy agendas in government legislation. I'm sure that there
is shadow lobbying going on as well, because why wouldn't
you if if you're that powerful.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yeah, and I found a cute little article called Amazon,
Tesla and Meadow among the world's top companies undermining democracy
on the Guardian website. Or as my husband like to say,
the four horsemen of the apocalypse Beasos, Busk, Zuckerberg and Trump.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's kind of hilarious. It shouldn't be companies that are
forming democracy. It shouldn't be super packed, it shouldn't be lobbyists,
and it is, but it is. I have a paratheses
the word social media job, which was supposed to trigger
a personal anecdote, and I don't know what that is,
so like lobbyists, And yeah, I mean I could see
maybe something, so there was something, There was something, I

(23:08):
wouldn't have written it down. So true, if there wasn't something.
I believe that wholeheartedly. Yeah, and then the next paragraph
starts with speaking of social media, So we were supposed
to be speaking of social media just now are lobbyists
on social media? No, it was a social media like influence.
It would have had something with me if it was.
If it's just in parentheses, it just triggered some kind

(23:29):
of like personal anecdote of like, I do have some
work in social media, so I would have had something
to do with that. But we're going to take a
little break while I ruminate on the meaning of my
notes and we'll come back. So speaking of social media

(23:59):
in a way, Yeah, anyway, there are echo chambers that
we all live in, and that significantly contributes to this
concept of hypernormalization which I've started using. Hypernormalization is just
this buzz word that just kind of means clown timeline,
which I don't know if that was what Adam Curtis
or that Russian anthropologists wanted, but fuck it whatever.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Unfortunately, we're also in the decline of an empire.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
So yeah, so we're here too. Echo chambers we live,
we live in them, live on for sure. I think
I was going to say, like we created them, but
we didn't. Really they were actually fed to us. So
we are in these very insular online worlds where everything

(24:45):
we see reinforces what we already think, and that's the
way the algorithm is designed. Yep. There's a reason that
in your feed, when you see those suggested reels and
those suggested posts and carousels, that they are things you
are interested in seeing, and even if you don't mean
to watch them, it's hard not to. I get a
ton of miss Sanders content. I get a ton of

(25:05):
feminist content. I don't get a lot of pro Trump
content unless it's actually like incoming stitch and then takedown.
That's how they were made. It's not an accident. There's
a great meme and it's just about Instagram being actually
a form of shadow work, Like it's actually it's something
like you're not bothered by the algorithm, you're bothered by

(25:25):
your own reflection. That's a really good one. It's in
my Meme Hall of Fame album, which I absolutely have.
There's like fifty memes in there. Oh my god, this
is amazing. We got to stay organized. But you are
living in an echo chamber that anytime you're participating in
social media, unless you make a significant effort to go

(25:46):
out and follow like pro maga tags, which I honestly
I almost want to do. Like I've learned that vilifying
the other side is just what the oligarchy wants. Yes, okay,
so it's not pro intellectual to just feed yourself things
that validate what you already think. And I'm not saying
a Trump supporter has a lot that they could teach you,

(26:08):
But humanizing people, even when you don't think they deserve it,
is actually good for the Soul's good for you, just
on a personal level. I think that's pretty in arguables
that like trying to see the good in people will
just serve your mental health well. And I understand, like
when there's someone who's saying like you don't have a
right to exist, like if you are trans, and there's

(26:28):
someone who is saying like, well, you shouldn't even be alive, Like,
I get it. You're not going to find middle ground
with that, but we can at least understand that they're
victims of a system and they're impressionable and we are too.
And I turn my niece's opinion on something without even trying, like,
oh yeah, what was it? It was about casting people

(26:50):
of color and novels that were traditionally white. Oh, my
second doesn't listen to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
If she knows about it, I will be very surprised.
But yeah, because you were talking about fictional stuff, right,
it was like.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, how to Train Your Dragon and snow White and
my sister got into like, the live action how to
Train Your Dragon is going to have an Indian woman
playing this character that's supposed to be a Viking, and
I just like started snickering and myself, I just like
couldn't keep my mouth shut, and I was like, yeah,
because it's such a realistic story, right, like, yeah, the

(27:21):
ancient text read of how to Train Your Dragon? Fuck off?
And then snow White being a Latina actress, which, for one,
can we still fucking remaking things and making like the
real problem here the live actions? Yeah, if all the
top movies or another Harry Potter, another Star Wars or
another Dumbo remake or something like, I'm a problem with that. Yeah,

(27:42):
we could talk about that. But my niece was there
and she started out being like, yeah, why are they
doing that? And I just I was just laughing about
I was like who cares? Like who cares, and then
my niece's like, yeah, who cares, Like yeah, this is stupid.
It was so easy for her to see. And because
she's at that age and because I'm someone who has
an important role in her life. I'm not saying we

(28:04):
can turn someone who's anti trans at easily, but just
a very like right in front of my eyes, like
when you are fat a narrative, and when you live
in an area and when you live in your echo chamber,
that's not really your fault. It takes a lot of
effort and self growth to break out of that, which
I mean I did. Like I'm not saying you can't
do it, but when you see someone who didn't, it's

(28:25):
not really their fault. Yeah, And I think that's the
thing too.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
I think the hard part just to argue this, I
think the hard part on the Internet is that it
is so extreme. So I feel like having a one
to one conversation in real life with a person, it's
so much easier to humanize them and you can have
a like back and forth and a rapport and like,
you know, a conversation versus like some guy just like
screaming in his car with his sunglasses on his fucking baseball,

(28:50):
Cabby and life.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Listen to your liberals. I don't think all you like.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
You know, it's it's hard to humanize them when they're
coming at you dehumanizing you.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Absolutely, But if you are able to talk to someone
one on one, if there are people in your family,
I don't agree with the like just avoided avoid Thanksgiving,
just like fuck your kooky uncle. It's like, No, that's
actually an opportunity where you could find common ground. And
I mean, if there's any way we could like help
the country, I actually think it would be that. And

(29:20):
I don't think they're right. I just think that they're
human and that if you are someone who's honestly like
I won't say this to them, but if you are
someone who's more intellectual and has put more effort into
your self growth, then maybe you're in a better position
to help someone who hasn't.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah, and I really believe in that too, because sometimes
people are just kind of repeating things that they've heard,
and they're just repeating it in this conversation.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
So if you could give them, like, here's actually some
data and some facts and some evidence and actually and
talk to them calmly without attacking them. I've seen it
where people turn around. I mean I've I've turned around
some opinions with people in my family.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
My mom used to she didn't vote at all, and
she's like, oh, yeah, I'm like a Southern Republican. And
now my mom is like a fucking like Bernie all day,
like a border line socialist. And I'm like, I did that, well,
that was me.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
What a success story. I love it is, but no,
you absolutely can't do it. Yeah. This extends from the
topic DuJour because the more in fighting we have, the
more distracted we are from the clown timeline, and the
more we think it's their fault instead of pointing to
the billionaires, the super PACs, the lobbyist, the politicians, it's
actually their fault. Yes, and they're so They're so good

(30:26):
at it, they've been so successful. We're so divided. I
guess I have to respect the con I mean I always,
you know, I respect a hustle. Don't hate the player,
eat the game or something. I do hate the players,
though in this case, yes, no, but I say that
all the time.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
I'm like, God, they are truly masters of propaganda, Like
it is, They've done their job so well and they're
so successful at it and I have to give it
to them.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, there was a meme that was like, hey, if
you're having a bad day, just remember billions of dollars
of propaganda didn't work on you, which is kind of
broad to say, because I would be like, do you
think it didn't or did it? Like what are we
talking about here? Right? And so it is hard to
In a lot of times, I feel like it's hard
to find right and wrong, like we were saying with
the Good Place. I think it was in last week's
episode where it's like, how do we tally up our

(31:08):
moral compass right here? Because sure, like recycling maybe makes
you feel good and overall, I don't think it's bad
to recycle. But as I like to harp on, like
so little of what you're doing is actually making a difference.
And does it actually distract you from British petroleum jumping
oil in the ocean because now you are focusing on
your own carbon footprint? Is that actually helping in the

(31:29):
long run? Probably not very much? Right? Sorry, Sorry I
didn't corroborate this, but I just saw something like in
passing that was like recycling for plastic because plastics is
the one thing that's really not that recyclable was created
by the companies that make plastic. That makes sense, right,
I want you to feel less guilty about using plastic exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Like oh no, no, no, keep buying it because then it
will rease it because the things are actually more recyclable,
are not. It's not plastic, it's aluminium and yeah glass.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, and that's why they give you money if you
take them to distribution to the centers, like they actually
want to reuse those things. It's actually a viable like
market around it. Yeah, that's why they're all collecting those
fucking cans on the street and the homeless people pushing
the carts. Like I want a better system for a
recycling plastic. And it's not like, well just fuck it,
throw your plastic. But it's just our focus.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Is on the wrong place exactly what I'm saying. And
it's a decrease plastic period.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yes, absolutely, reducing single use plastic would make a huge difference.
But instead they're just gonna push for quote unquote recycling
it because that's cheaper but way more destructive. And when
I say we're in the focus on the wrong area,
it's because a narrative was fed to you. Yep, growing up.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
In the nineties and feeling like you were solely responsible
for killing the rainforest and all the trash heaps in
the world.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
I can't not recycle. I just feel like it.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
The propaganda's a child was so hard on me. That's like,
you must recycle or all the turtles are gonna die.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
It's like, oh god, Yeah, there's a meme that I
say that I'll put in the same thread that was
like billionaires leaving on the space are like, good thing,
you guys didn't use plastic straws. And then the person
shouting back is like I didn't use plastic straws. It's
like we yay, we did it. Everyone so breaking up.

(33:13):
Oh okay, I have a good argument against turfs also,
but I might throw that in at the end because
I want to pick up with my nerves. We have
all the arguments against yeah, but it was one that
I came home with talking with my immediate family. But
I'm going to put it at the end so that
you have to come back and listen more, or stay

(33:33):
and listen more, or finish your what you're doing and
then come back whatever. Either way, I stick around, So
picking up with the notes, just it's that, yes, that
the anger is misplaced, and that the far right communities
they care about their families. They just want to feel okay,
like we have more in common than we are allowed

(33:55):
to know. Yeah, I'm not saying they're right about a
lot of things, but if they could humanize immigrants, that
would make a huge difference. And they've just been fed
a different version of the same clown timeline. Like there's
still a victim of clown timeline, right, And we're being
separated by social media. That's part of the Like I'm

(34:16):
not seeing certain types of people on my feed being human. Instead,
I'm just seeing influencers, deep stories, you might say, just
telling me why to hate other people. And this promotes
the spread of misinformation, the culture war, this warped view
of reality. All of us, everyone, even people different, very
different from us with what I consider wrong ideas, are

(34:38):
the heroes of their own story and they think they're
just as right as you do. And instead we're all
just kind of stuck in this spin of what now
I'm calling hypernormalization. And you can't see the lizard people
hiding in plain sight. It's not your mag uncle, he's
not the lizard man. No, but let's oh yeah, so
I already talked about the psychological effects of this shared

(34:59):
experience we're having with the dogs. Yeah, with the dogs.
But yeah, my notes say the psychological effects of the
shared experience. Hyper n. It's not the name of my
fifth child, but it is the name of the compound
that stops the zombie virus from spreading hyper n hyper en. Right,
you inject it like right into the Yep, subcutaneous injection.

(35:19):
I mean, if it's a big.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
One, it sounds intramuscular, but you know what, damn it,
I thought it was ready.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Maybe maybe scutaneous for this particular one. Maybe that one's
better absorb that way. I guess I won't skipy ams training.
I'll helpe yeh, thank you, thank you, thank you. So.
Cardative dissonance is that uncomfortable feeling when you're holding contradictory beliefs,
which is like when you're a smoker but you really
want to be healthy, or when you care about animal

(35:45):
welfare but you're eating animals anyway, Like we all deal
with this, but on a nationwide level, we're feeling that too.
Now where it's like, wait, I see this, But I
see that, but I don't have any outlet, and I
don't know how to solve it or reconcile. That's uncomfortable.
So this was from an article in First Draft News
that says our mental state makes us more vulnerable to misinformation.

(36:10):
Oh yeah, yeah, so you're gonna love this. When we
have to process facts that challenge our existing beliefs, people
do tend to reject credible information because they want to
make the discomfort go away. Yep. That keeps our perception
of reality distorted. And it's not because someone is weak minded.
There's a neuroscientific backing to this of like if you

(36:31):
put yourself in a pained state, in an uncomfortable state,
the survival instinct is to shut that down. Even sometimes
I'm saying like, oh, just have these calm conversations with
Trump supporters, but sometimes I get this like bubbling, like
frustration that we all know and it's really hard to
be calm about it. I find it easier with family,

(36:52):
I guess, because I know I'm stuck with them forever,
so it's like, well, we might as well just hash
it out, yeah, like what else are we going to do?
And that is what I've done with my family is
like try to find like a at least like something
we agree on in the context of this conversation, even
though it's philosophically different. But yeah, everyone kind of intuitably knows,
like when you're in a bad way, you're vulnerable to everything.

(37:17):
So when we are as a nation, as actually a
world in a bad way, yeah, fucking now we are
for a lot of reasons that are outside of our control.
The Guardian had that article how to learn to helplessness
become commonly used to describe us voters, and that was
where it was. The dog study of like they were

(37:40):
jolting some dogs with electricity. This is before there were
laws about animal testing, right, this is what fifties, Yeah, sixties, Yeah,
it's a bummer. It's probably the seventies. I feel like
all the like rights came to oh, for sure, everyone
and everything in the seventies.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Everything was the seventies and the nineties. If you have rights,
that's the years that it was passed usually.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
But some of the dogs were getting shocked with electrical
vaults and had kind of like a way to make
the jolts stop, and some of them were getting shocked
and had no way to make the jolts stop. And
then when they took those dogs in a new setting,
the dogs that had access in the past to a
way of escaping their pain were more likely to try
to do it again. And the dogs who didn't it

(38:23):
seemed like, even now that they did have a way
to escape the volts, the jolts of electricity, they didn't
try because they'd been trained like a dog really that
there's no escaping. So it makes you weaker to be
hurt like that over and over. So that's cool, that's yeah,

(38:44):
that's us. By the way, we are the dogs getting
jolted without having a button to avoid the pain anyway.
So the feminism of it all, we have our own
large scale cognitive dissonance as we'm on, which is being
told that we have won, we have achieved equality while

(39:05):
seeing the rights that we we're seeing the rights that
we do have, but also being assaulted by the reality
that this equality is totally incomplete and virtually non existent.
I mean, and yeah, slowly eating chipped away at again. Yes,
currently and tradwives could even be read as an extension
of hypernormalization, which is like, don't worry, it's just like
being a stay at home mom. You're not being oppressed.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, while they're literally the architects of the Handmaid's Tale
come to life.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Exactly, but that's not the main story that's being told
with it. That's the one you kind of have to
dig for or just listen to our episode on tradwives. Yes,
there was someone who commented that was overseas and was like,
what do you mean tradwives it's about like did you
see that?

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, no, I commented, I replied back to them. I
basically said, I think you're conflating tradwives with housewives, which
very specifically are not interchangeable terms.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
And but I mean, I guess that is our like
American arrogance of like oh, of course you or like
Western arrogance really like of course, you know our social
media trends.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
To be fair, though, I checked in the Carousel at
the very end, the description for tradwives said like not
to be yes, like you say in the Carousel that
they commented on Yese in the description of the episode
that they are not the same thing, that it is
a social media movement and it does not mean stay
at home moms.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
That's very true, thank you. Yes, I am learning to
be extremely clear in those episode descriptions.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
I think we should continue to do so and continue
to do that work, but also this will also continue
to keep happening.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
What's that? I mean, it's like I have a mental
illness where I think if I present people with facts,
they will listen. Yes, yeah, I have that one too. Okay,
So I guess that was That was my only time
with feminism. I mean, it's broad, but I just wanted
to bring it home with that.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
I mean, yeah, it's like you said, I mean, patriarchy
is the society that we live in, and the society
that we live in is fucking us over.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Why don't we do an episode two just really on
the Actually, Matriarchies our most popular episode after the first episode,
because a lot of people listened to the first is
Matriarchy's episode. And then I think also in the top
five is the one where I was just bitching about
my ex boyfriend. I can't tell you how happy it
would make me if literally thousands of people just heard
me shit talk this shitty guy. Yes, so that was

(41:17):
episode fifty eight or nine. Uh yeah, Alison. In the
case of the no good, very bad boyfriend, which I
talked to him. By the way, since I've updated the listeners,
I'm sure I've told a x about it. But he
was actually he was kind of groveling, which was nice.
I know that felt really that did feel good. I expected.
And apparently he had some like horrible life crisis after

(41:40):
everything happened, and he was like, do you even do
you even know what happened? And like what happened in
my life? And I was like, uh no, Actually, I
was like, well, I know the other girl broke up
with you after I told her you were too timing us.
And he's like no after that, and he was like,
I'm not even gonna tell you. You just tell everyone.
I was like, yeah, I would. I told him. I
was like, yeah, I would not gonna lie. I would

(42:00):
put it on my podcast. I don't really care, Like
all I really need out of this interaction is to
know that you're suffering. I am. I have some I
don't know, I have some theories about like legal action
that could have been taking. He literally moved out of
the country, you guys. I am not exaggerating. He moved
out of the country. I mean he went somewhere where
like he has roots and a passport, So it wasn't

(42:22):
like he fled to Mexico. But as a result of this,
of this, that is a fucking pow wax baby. I mean,
certainly there were other things at play, but if I
had just fucking rolled over and taken that, I don't
think I think he would still be here, still be
here in the great city of Los Angeles. You know,

(42:44):
we don't have to worry about seeing him out at
bars where we went to. And that's nice, I know that,
because that's a nice feeling. Nice feeling.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Oh that's like the worst feeling after a breakup is
just like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna stop going.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
To the place I like to go to. But oh
fuck o fuck oh is that his car? Yeah? Shit fuck?
Oh no, we're that guy's No, that's not him. I
told a couple of the bartenders, because I'm a bar fund,
I told like one or two of them, like, if
you ever see this guy, like give him a hard time,
Like he comes in here, this is my ex. I
literally like, good, the detective going in, have you seen
this man? Like have you seen this man? Yeah? Good,

(43:17):
don't see him? Under pour him? Yeah? Him on Westgate,
the other fun thing that I know our listeners will
enjoy is that he really harped on I have to
live with the guilt of what I did with you forever.
Cry me a fucking river. I really just kept saying, like,
oh no, your actions have consequences. Oh no for babe,

(43:40):
Oh no.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
You He'll be accountable for the shitty thing that I did.
Oh god, now this is a problem for me.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
It's like, yeah, yeah it is. And he also said,
you know every friend you contacted to talk about this.
By the way, if you haven't listened to that episode,
now you got to catch up because now you know,
there's just spicy drama. He's vera spicy verus spicy and
funny to intermix in this up. So but whatever, who cares?
Fuck it? We ball. I didn't contact with the lore.
You know, Sackrals against the Patriarchy is an experience. It's

(44:10):
an immersive experience kind of, and it's more than just
about feminism. It's for the girlies, which is feminism. Actually yes,
but yeah, he kept saying how bad his life had become,
and I kept saying, without even thinking about it, just
instinctively that I was like, good, good, yeah, good, and
He probably was like, why is that good? And I'm like, well,
beyond the sadism that I feel and he's like, yeah,

(44:31):
like you could tell, like, beyond the sadism if you
have an experience that leads to you being a better person.
I think objectively we would all agree that is good. Yeap.
And he didn't have a fucking clap back for that. Nope. No,
So actually, yeah, that conversation did. He did make me
feel better and uh that's been that's been helpful. So
uh okay, so that episode, yes good, Matriarchy is also good.

(44:55):
I want to do A Matriarchy's Part two, and I
want to really tie in the interplay of patriarchy and capitalism,
because what we learned is that there really wouldn't be
capitalism without patriarchy. Yes, but they keep each other alive. Yeah,
they're they're like a what is it, like a yin
and yang, like an oraborus, like a twin DA's like
a twin flame. Maybe in patriarchy tolmates one might say, yeah,

(45:18):
and I think there are more people who are anti
capitalism than anti patriarchy, So maybe if we could turn
them by pointing out the interplay. Yes, let's take our
next break. We are nearing the end. I think next
I was just going to talk about what we could
possibly do to counteract all of this, and then my

(45:39):
little response to turfism, if that's well, I wanted to
make it like Turfrey Ortes or something. I mean, yeah,
you're right, I don't need to play play more with that. Okay,
we'll be back national leaders. They do not want us

(46:14):
to act or to revolt. They don't. They want us
to accept the performative strides. And like when companies say, oh,
we stand with women, like the METO movement, like green
washing bullshit. Yeah, there's a lot of I guess I
did have a little bit more on feminism here, because
companies continue to not give adequate maternal leave, for example,

(46:35):
or I don't feel that women have enough protections in
regards to sexual harassment at work, given all the times
that I have not been taken seriously right for that.
So there's the here's what we're being told, and then
here's what we're and here's what we're experiencing. Having to
grapple with that, and also our perception of feminism as
a society. I think it changes with political climate, and

(46:57):
like can you even imagine how different things would be
if we did have female president. It would make a
fucking difference. Yeah, even men. Oh God, Like when Hillary
was running, I overheard two guys in LA, you know,
like was it in LA, probably in the Bay anyway,
somewhere liberal, big city, big California city. Yeah, and they

(47:17):
were saying, you know, I just I could just never
see a woman being president.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
You know.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
I don't think they liked the opposition, but they just
couldn't wrap their mind around that. I hope that younger
men are kind of figuring it out, but I don't
know that that's always the case. You have been talking about,
and I believe you, like younger generations still holding on
to misogyny. But if the attitude toward a movement changes
with the news cycle and like which celebrities are advocating

(47:43):
for it, then it's not rooted in fact or reality
on reality's terms. It's just a subjective narrative that's being
fed to the masses. Okay, so what do we do?
What do we do? That's my question. Go to your
ears dive bar, invite your favorite people, You do a
shot with the bartender, You dance between the tables, but
you don't get it anyone's way, Like, don't be a

(48:05):
dick about it, but you dance, you tell your momy lover,
you drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. Okay,
that's what's one idea, or I mean that's what I've
been doing. Yeah, like there's no tomorrow, dance like no
one's watching. But if there isn't much tomorrow, I mean
I do think there will be. I don't there could

(48:26):
be like the big earthquake or nuclear war or something,
and who knows, you know, it's always who knows, which
is good to keep in mind. But on a global scale,
I feel that our distraction will not be very dramatic,
just like how COVID wasn't like in the movies where
it's like the disease is spreading and everyone's dying. It
was a lot more like, okay, like two percent of

(48:48):
people are dying. Terrible. But I think that our apocalypse
will be slow and boring and depressing and not be
as exciting as the movies because that's almost like easier
to wrap my mind around of like, oh yeah, I'm
gonna be like in Mad Max, like living on the
streets and like I've got my shive and I'm scavenging.
It's harder for me to just imagine like, oh, like

(49:09):
my state funded healthcare could go away, and like my
friends who are in any kind of in between immigration
status will just be deported and like just these small
slow things that just make life shittier and shittier, and
there will be more people who are homeless and they
will actually be dying. We see bodies on the street
in Los Angeles, you pass these tents where a homeless

(49:31):
person who's died from heat exposure, dehydration or something. Will
probably we'll be seeing more of that. Yep. So it
will be slow and it will be depressing. But improving
media literacy is really really good. And looking at multiple
sources news sources from other countries, I was seeing a
lot like even just like the Guardian, like it's British
but it's still different, Like New Zealand papers had articles

(49:53):
about this Al Jazeera and I'm I really mean like
ingesting conservative news as frush it can be is helpful
in making sense of the world and understanding like, wow,
there are some people with some really weird ideas.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Oh yeah, sometimes just once in a blue moon I'll
just put on Fox just to be like what, Yeah,
what's the other side ingesting.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Exactly, and that one of my mantras is everyone to
hear of their own story because it's like they don't
think that everyone thinks they're the good guy exactly. Yes,
and that's different. It's not like in the movies where
it's like we're the good guys. In they're the villains,
the villain. I mean even the villain usually thinks they're
the good guy.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Absolutely, that's the thing. No one thinks like I'm the villain.
I'm No one thinks that everyone thinks they're the good guy.
Is that from something?

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's a mean, it's a meme
that goes around though. It's like they're Nazis and he's
like it's this media. I don't know if it was
from peep Show, but it's like the guy from peep
Show and he's like dressed like a nazine.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
It's just like, oh, we the baddies. Yeah, but they
don't know it, and that makes it harder to come
bat and to change. And when I say combat, I
mean more combat the ideas, not the people. Because even
when it's just hopefully I don't just come across as
like such a right wing apologist and really just trying
to be like objective about this because reality doesn't fucking

(51:15):
care about right and left wing. It just is the
universe doesn't care. When it was like, go punch a Nazi,
and they didn't really mean Nazis. They meant just like
conservative people and Trump supporters, like punch a Nazi. I'm like,
what's that gonna fucking do? Like, if you're just fighting
people like you're not, that's not gonna do anything projective.
It's not change. Yeah, if someone's attacking you, sure, Like
if someone is going out there spewing that like trans

(51:36):
people deserve to die. Sure, But if it's just like
a guy in a red het, yeah down the street,
don't don't punch that guy. I don't think he's a Nazi.
I think he's an idiot. And if we're gonna commit
violent acts, guys, pull Luigi and fucking fucking blow out
the brains of Elon Musk. That's what we actually need
right now. If we're going to commit violent acts, focus
on the right people. I don't know, I might censor that.

(51:59):
That feels like a call to violence, which might get
something reported, although I don't know. Apparently social media is
going to be less censored, is what I Yeah, I
was reading an article just for like maybe this was
what the social media job thing referred to. No, I
don't think so. I wish that anecdot would come back
to me, even though I'm sure it wasn't good or
interesting to listeners. But reading just how like blank blanket

(52:21):
statements used to always get flagged of, like even like
like men are trash. Yes, that would get pulled for
hate speech. But now supposedly with meta's new policies, you
can make statements like that, which includes like trans people
should die, like that is what the internet. I don't.
I haven't tested this. I don't want to test this
even to say like men are trash, like I don't
want to get my account pulled.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
I still feel like matter trash will be pulled, though
I haven't. That's the thing feeling.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
I think so too. Yeah, but like like women are
all whats won't be exactly Yeah, that's that's also my concern. Okay,
but yeah, so improving media literacy I even I actually
really I think CHATGBT is an excellent source. It was
funny talk. I talked to CHATGBT about the nature of
AI all the time, and it's very fascinating. But I

(53:09):
also ask it bias oriented questions and kind of read
into what it's telling me of, like are you really
giving me a bias? And sometimes I'll point out, like
I can tell what you're telling me is with a bias,
and it will give me a reason why. But generally
it is pretty careful about how it responds to questions.
Even though the developers I'm sure are more liberal and
that will shine through, but it's still a good way

(53:31):
to just ask a very specific question looking for an
objective answer, and you could tell it that too. That's
what's great. I love I'm so controlling. I love how
controlling I can be. I can be like I want
your answer to be like this, in this tone, and
it will do that. I love micromanaging the robot. I can,
and then you can ask it. Always ask it for sources.
You know, you can always go to the articles that

(53:52):
it sends you to. And having a resource that is
at least attempting to be neutral, which is not true
for any other resource. Except this is why we love
psych studies. We love data, Like we love journal articles.
They are at least attempting to be data driven and
not opinion or feeling driven. Okay, so we got media literacy,

(54:15):
finding different resources, educating yourself in terms of politics, but
not just from your echo chamber. And then I wanted
to refresh on oligarchy because I hear that word a
lot and I've used it. But it is a form
of power structure that consists of a small group of people,
and they have a disproportionate amount of political power and influence,

(54:37):
a disproportionate amount of control over a society. That's who
the other side is. It's not your Trump family back home.
And if you have a capacity to donate and to volunteer,
I would say find small organizations local, Yeah, support investigative journalists,
places that are trying to like uncover secrets. Like that's
where we should be, right, That's what we talked about

(54:59):
last too.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Just like where are the investigative journalists? Like all the
big journal like all the big newspapers are owned by
these oligarchy oligarchist, I don't know oligarchy, they're owned by
the oligarchy.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Like basis, Oh, it's the Washington Post, it's insane, and
I don't have the best resources to point to, but
I was at least wanting to give some broad, kind
of hopeful ideas of like, well, what even could we do?
Like I've posted these resources. But when I was looking
for places to donate in response to the LA wildfires,
I found a woman who literally just goes enhances tents

(55:31):
to homeless people. She's not part of an organization, she
has no overhead, there's no admin, there's no room for corruption.
She has an Amazon wishless. She gets tarps, she gets
very basic survival supplies. She seemed super legit. I talked
to her, she had a good read. I don't think
it's a scam. That would be insanely corrupt if it was. Also,
you're just like buying tents off Amazon.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Yeah, for behalf, Like what is She's just like stacking
tents in her backyard. She's like, I'm gonna have the
highest ten pyramid in the whole country.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
That's the long con baby. Finding Yeah, mutual aid groups,
local government is less corrupt, keeping it small. It's like
the only community one might say, be driven exactly, And
I know, I know finding people who are different than
you and trying to find common ground. I know they're wrong,
but maybe we can help those other people. And by

(56:19):
helping other people, we always help ourselves. Maybe we can
help them be less wrong. Yep, you had some ideas too, No,
I'm wondering.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
I was, yeah, I was just thinking about like the
in relation to the fall of the Soviet Union and
the obviously the fall of us right now, Oh, what
do we do because I feel like social media is
such a big player in what's going on with us
now that was not a player in the fall of
the Soviet Union?

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Are you suggesting we learn from history? I, you know,
what's really weird?

Speaker 2 (56:50):
I would love to, but I felt like the Internet
has changed so much. I just was like, what's your opinion,
because I think we're kind of like you were talking
about too, Like everything can be considered fake news, right Like,
even if we give information, if it disrupts what I believe,
then I can shut it down. And it's easy to
do that now because we can say everything is fake news,
everything's ai, everything's this, that and the other. I think

(57:11):
it's more complicated, and I think it's going to be
harder because of social media.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I don't think pulling off of social media is the
right move though, and maybe that's no.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
I don't think so either, because we live there like it.
Like No, I mean that's that's the whole problem. It's
like it is, like, I don't think the answer is
get rid of social media. Yeah, social media is part
of life, Like your fucking grandma's on Facebook, like, and Zuckerberg,
who is now under Trump, owns fucking Facebook like, and
then X is owned by fucking Elon, and like Washington

(57:41):
Post is owned by bezos. Like everything that we have
is corrupted. So having to navigate through this is seems
like a big task, which I think is part of
what you were saying.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Where it's overwhelmed, where you shut down right what we're
doing with finding sources, sharing them, getting really academic about it.
That is how I tried to talk to people when
there was that girl in the tradwife thread who was like,
why are you just focusing tradwife on whiteness? It's everywhere
I posted a comment. We always back up our shit
with research. Here as a scientific article about white nationalism

(58:16):
and the tradwife movement. Boom, I'm not going to comment
war with you. I'm not going to get upset that
you didn't read the fucking thing that I wrote carefully
so that you would understand it. Responding to each other
like that as much as possible, calmly. People shut down
when you get angry at them, And there's so much
anger in the way we interact with each other online.
I have been seeing a lot more of that.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
People like trying really hard to have a like calm
and rational conversation with someone that they're opposing to, And
I think that is the best way to get information
across and like you said, just citing legitimate sources. Yeah,
but sometimes it's so hard because it's like you feel
like you're trying to say something like I know, and
then it's just such a oh, it's so hard.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
It's just hard not to get emotions. I mean, I
am getting emotional and then having to like calm that down.
I think if we could, if there was a way
to interact with people who are different from us, and
meme pages do open that up to a degree, because
there are lots of different people who go to these communities,
finding our online communities that are a little bit more diverse,
Like I don't I assume everyone in our discord everyone

(59:20):
who will be on a reddit will be similar. But
if they're not, then instead of shutting them down, trying
to engage with them, yeah, be open to conversation.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
But I think that's the hard part too of what
I was getting at. It's like, when we didn't interact
with people mostly online, it's so much easier, like said,
to dehumanize them. And back in the day, it's like
you could there wasn't the option to have like an
online discourse, Like, it's so much easier to get upset.
It's like the same data they have with road rage
right where it's like it's easy to get mad and
like get really frustrated because you're dehumanizing because it's a car. Yeah,

(59:50):
And it's not till you're confronted face to face that
you're like, oh shit, this is a you know, grandma
driving an old Buick and I shouldn't be fucking yelling
at her and flipping her off.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
More posts that say cat photo for tech. Perhaps yes,
perhaps I've dropped in like a heated group chat was
like roommates or staff or whatever. I've dropped in like
a hamster pushing a cart and just be like, hi,
like diffuse the situation. Yes, make it, make it human,
make it silly, make a joke, like talking to people

(01:00:19):
want to one even outside of the public forum, can
help of like all of a sudden, you're just a person. Yeah,
and that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Yeah, we have to humanize each other and humanize ourselves, unfortunately,
which is like extra labor to do. Oh yeah, I
think it does make a really big difference.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
It does. Yeah. Oh, I had another thought about this,
but I didn't spit it out, so and down there
was a lot of this is good, this is good momentum.
I have a lot of fiery passion and thank you
for bouncing ideas off too. I had like one more
little tibbit about maybe one thing we could do to help,
but I don't remember, so it's gone forever.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I think volunteering in your community is good because you
will be forced to be exposed to different people. When
I volunteered at the Motion clinic, the protesters like I
would go on the weekdays, which wasn't as busy, but
like the protesters that be outside, I fucking talk to them.
We had a very civil conversation, like we found common ground,
not on abortion obviously, but like other things, and like

(01:01:16):
we're more like you said, we're more similar than we
are not. And they're you know, very gung ho in
their beliefs and it comes from a good place, and
they truly believe that, you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Know, babies are being murdered. I argue with that, that's
the thing we don't. It's not approached like that. It's
approached like they hate with us, right, us versus that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
I mean, some of them do hate women. But these
particular two I was talking to, they were young. They
were like Christian ministry types, like they like were like,
we love God and we go to other countries and
kind of colonize them. What No, it's fine, but like
there are the types that like really genuinely believe that
this is happening and that this is an unjust evil
in the world. But like the fact that they could

(01:01:55):
even talk to me like a person was also I'm
sure a big thing for them to be like, oh wow,
like we're all just kind of people standing up for
what we think is right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Another one of yes, my many quotes in mantras that
go through my head. And by the way, I'm not
going to go into my argument against terfism because we
don't have time and that means you just have to
come back next week. Oh yeah, we'll just have to
pound it out next week. It'll be good. That'll be good.
That's the reason they come back is. It was a
quote that I worked in a restaurant where there was
a tyrant chef who would scream at everyone, and my

(01:02:24):
friend who is the hostess, which is kind of witherr
and I remember she said, in front of everyone, she said,
we're all just people doing people things. It was like,
that's so true that even for the people who are
anti abortion because they hate women, they might hate women
a little bit less if they could be around them. Oh,
I was going to say, being in big cities, yes, people,
it's like, how can you believe that immigrants are lazy

(01:02:45):
when you live in a city and that's all white people.
When you're yeah, when you're a small town and oh
my god, the things that my family members in a
small town will say that are just insane about like
white privilege doesn't exist, and like you don't understand when
you drive past every person who's in cuffs on the
ground and they're a person of color, it's pretty And

(01:03:06):
when you, as a white person, are getting away with
all sorts of shit, like without even meaning to, just like, oh,
I was driving above speedlimin I didn't get pulled over. Interesting,
Like you fucking realize it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Right if you're walking around a store and a person
of colors walking around the store and you don't get
followed but they do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Mmmm, But you don't know that if you live in
a town of white people. So that's the yes, the intermixing.
This is why I want to do research on this,
so I cannot just say it even though I fucking
know it. Big cities are more democratic and liberal because
we're forced to fucking live on top of each other. Right,
And then you become more aware and more maybe not
significantly more empathetic or considerate being in a big city,
but just more cognizant of this reality of like, oh,

(01:03:43):
people are more similar than they are different, and all
these people that are being attacked are actually just humans
that deserve rights too, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
They also have families, They also have people that they
care about. We're all fighting to be stable and people
just care about their families and keeping their head afloat.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
We're all doing that, and we're being distracted on purpose
by that propaganda machine.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
I also think it's very violently American as far as
like quote unquote western ized First World countries go.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Is that we don't get to travel as much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Yes, And I think that makes such a big difference,
Like we don't get vacation time off.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Traveling for US is such a to do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
It's not like I can take a train and I'm
in a different country that speaks a different language. And
I think that also keeps us in this perpetual loop
of the US versus them, because if I, you know,
lived in Germany and I could just go take a
day trip over to Poland, like, yes, that's that's a
big difference.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Yeah. And in Europe is where there are more countries
too that have parliaments and that have multiple parties represented.
I know there's still problems and especially in England of
US versus them, but yes, multiculturalism, integration with other people
and communities makes a world of fucking difference, as fucking litely.
I am Sandris Memes on Instagram and I am t

(01:04:54):
x scoth Geff and we are Sad Gaptop Podcast. You
can email us at Sad Gaptop Podcast at gmail dot com.
You can visit our website sad Gap Dash podcast dot com.
Don't forget about the merch prices maybe high can up soon,
but also new designs, fun things Hell yeah, Patreon ad
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(01:05:14):
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Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
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Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
To say a rate review, subscribe and share with a
friend or two. To quote the documentary of the same name.
In our age of hypernormalization, the line between truth and
fiction has blurred so completely that we live not with
a genuine understanding of the world, but with a comforting
illusion crafted by those in power. And we're stronger together.

(01:05:47):
We'll see you next time. Bye. By