89: On the IQ Tests' Villain Origin Story And Many Psychology Bits

IQ tests, get on the analysis couch. This week we trace the intelligence quotient’s horrible origin in eugenics and sterilization. Then track how it kinda improved and developed into the G factor (has nothing to do with being a g, yet kind of does). And finally identify the now recognized multiple styles of intelligence that make things a lot more interesting. Very Psych 102 style. TLDR: if you think you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi, Hello, and welcome to Sad Girls against the Patriarchy.
I'm Alison and I'm Alexis, and we are your sad girls.
We were sharing some wisdom of the ages. Yes, moisturizers

(00:32):
and personal duplications.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, we were talking about how vasoline is like the
best moisturizer for your lips, for your face, it's the best,
but not for your badge.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Absolutely not. I was telling Alison.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
When I was a kid, I had a giant thing
of vasiline by my bedside table and anytime someone came over.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
They were like, oh, well it's this then, and I
was like, it's.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
No, it's for my lips, Like uh sure, but yeah,
it's not good to use as lubricant people.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
It's giant with the lid open and like literally like it.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
It was the old school, yeah, the old like square
octa with like the pop top and just like dug
my fucking figure, Chris.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I know. I did read on the internet because I
knew someone who was using it as lube, and I
was like, I want to look into this, and it
was what kind of like, it's probably fine, but there's
a chance that you could get your floora and fauna
disturbed or some kind of infection. The story was, don't
use it for that.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Oh, speaking of dudes fucking up your flora fauna in
your in your cavity. So apparently datas come out, which
they've already kind of categorized BV with bacterial vaginosis as
an STD, but like not really because it's more of
like a disruption in your floora that can cause an infection,
but it usually only comes if you're like a sexually

(01:49):
active woman, right, But they found like concrete data that
BV is caused by men.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Nice yep, so like.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
For sure it's an STD, and second of all, it's
from dudes being fucking Yeah. A lot of people are like, well,
that's how you know they're cheating, and it's like, no, actually,
it just might means they like did wash their hands
or like the dick or.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
There, or they're crusty dick.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
So yeah, ladies of guy regives you shit about your BV,
be like that's you, baby.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
This is very good to know.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yes, I love finding more things to blame on men
that have previously been shamed on women.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
This is amazing. I feel like there are other things
too that fall outside of the realm of STDs, but
in the realm of.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Just like you're a little messed up, but it's probably
not your fault.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
And that's the thing too, It's like it can just happen,
like it's a very delicate ecosystem down there. And that's
why you shouldn't douche either, like people mm who douche.
It's like that's the same thing. You're just disrupting what's
already naturally it's supposed to. It's self clear, it does
its own thing, like we've lived for millennia, like we
figured it out, Like it's good down there.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Don't fuck with it. And we were also just chatting
about how we have such a wonderful core group of
listeners but wish to expand that. And I west thinking,
I wonder if it's because our content is alienating to
fit two percent of the population. But I know dudes
that listens that us. It feels weird recommending it though
a random guy like, oh it's your podcast, I'm like, uh, sad,
girls against the page, it's not really for you, but.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
You would get a lot from it, yes, And also the.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Patriarchy hurts you too, Okay, it hurts you, like almost
just as much.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
So men can start with that episode if you know
a guy or have a partner or someone, which is
how the patriarchy hurts meant to. And we did an
episode called Your Varied and Vibrant Vulva with lots of
great vaginal house tips.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yes, which your dude should also fucking listen to.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Literally, they need to know more about periods and our
beautiful bodies.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, the amount of grown adult heterosexual men that think
we pee out of art vaginas is absolutely concerning. Like
we do not have kloacas, thank you so much. It's
like just because you pe out of your dick hole,
I mean they're also same thing. They're two different tubes.
They're just coming out of the same hole. Ursa versus
dick hole. Is that the technical term?

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I don't know, so a Q test it. Oh no,
there's a nice listener message. Just kidding. I really wanted
to read a very sweet message story, a little like
the HD moment bounce in a red look we're doing it.
We got a very sweet message from one of our
longtime listeners who forwarded a meme that said, the reason
speaking out is so important is that it lowers the

(04:23):
perceived risk of those who are still silent and have
something to say. Your courage matters, Your words matter. Every
voice is a key to unlocking another's. And she accompanied
that with thought a lot about you gals after reading this,
Thank you both for all you do for being a
loud voice that amplifies others. I know, sweet, so sweet.

(04:43):
We're just they appers, and I recognize like we have
a lot of privilege, Like we're not speaking out in fear.
I mean, we do have horrible interactions with men, but
fortunately we're in a pretty safe space here and don't
have to encounter them. I do yell at people in
person too, But we're coming into it with white privilege,

(05:04):
with just the fact that men are default. Like I'm
trying not to stay pretty privilege. I'm trying to think
of a way to not say pretty privilege.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, I guess, I mean it's another way to you
could say we're attractive white women.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
I mean, I think that's okay. I hope so sound
like an arrogant douchebag. No, I mean it is what
it is. It is what it is.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes, I was thinking about that today, about like how
I was just thinking about politics and I won't get
into it, but I was just thinking about like how
shitty it is, and how there's all these websites now
to like report schools that are you know, there's a
website on the Department of Education right now where you
can report schools that are doing things that are like
basically DEI or like transpositive and you can report them.
So people are like obviously just bombarding it with you know,

(05:47):
they're just trolling it, and I did too.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
I just like sent a troll thing and I.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Was like, god, like, how do people in other countries
where it's like their government's so corrupt, how do they
even get their messages out?

Speaker 1 (05:56):
How are they able to like if it's super oppressive.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
And I just thinking like, man, I'm really lucky, Like
shit's really bad right now, but like there's so many
people around the world where it's like they can't even protest,
like if they did something like this, like they could
be killed, Like they could be you know, like journalists
that are tracked down and killed for saying the shit
out loud.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
And I was like, damn, like we it is kind
of is bad, but it's still could be worse. That's
a good perspective. Yeah, it doesn't diminish the fact that
it is bad. It's good to recognize. And I have
a little gratitude that I can still say like Trump
is a fascist piece of shit. And you know, if
you never hear from me again, no, you know what,
But yes, I'm glad people appreciate what we're saying.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
And yeah, oh we got the nice keyboard back.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I keep thinking the bottom of this ring light that's
in the camera over there's a banana.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
And I keep looking over me, like, why is there
a banana on the screen? What's going on? But it's
it's not It looks like a banana though, yeah, whoa,
like a night's perfectly right right, Like.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
It's like it's just right on screen, like banana.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Oh man, So intelligence, Oh coolana? Anyway, So about smarts? Yeah,
so IQ stands for this is so funny. Also, I
literally wrote i Q stands for intelligence metric, which it
does not. Metric does not start with a Q. It's
aans for intelligence quotient. Yes, I mean, you know, panna whatever.

(07:24):
We're gonna get into all this and it will all
make sense in the end. Even now in the psychology field,
it doesn't mean that your intelligence can be distilled into
a single number, and you're a Q result is a
score that you receive as a result of taking a
type of test. It doesn't mean you're one ten smart like,
it's just not that simple now. And it's also assessed

(07:45):
on a bell curve, so there are fewer people on
the high end and on the low range. But if
you're at Q is one forty, it doesn't mean you're
twice as smart as someone who's i Q is seventy.
It's kind of it's one of those percentile things, and
you're taking a test that's geared towards your age. It's time,
so there are different ways to interpret the scores that
are supposed to be baked into the test, Like an

(08:05):
untimed test will rank a little differently than a timed test,
So it's just more complicated. Then I'm smart because I
have a high IQ. And you'll also be unsurprised that
it has a very nasty history.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
What I know, right, ranking people on a on a
test that's very specific to one type of intelligence.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
The history tell me more shocking, but please do tell
me more.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
I In nineteen oh four, the French Ministry of Education
commissioned Alfred Bennet to design an intelligence test, and the
ministry wanted a test that would decide whether school children
with learning disabilities should be sent to a special school
that was attached to a lunatic asylum. Oh, I see you.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
We're just starting them and then we're just going to
funnel them in. I see, I see what we're.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Doing because they have a learning disability of some kind,
and that means that we don't need to put them
in normal schools with special help associated with the school.
We'll just send them away. Oh god, it'd be fine.
So I'm already seeing problems because people with learning disabilities
can be intelligent in other, perhaps less conventional areas. I

(09:15):
didn't do the research of savants, but that, in my
understanding is like you have one high, high skill, like
you're a brilliant musician of some kind, but in other
areas you score lowly on standardized tests.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Right, you could be dyslexic and quite a.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Massive Yeah, like dyslexic people, that has nothing to do
with your intelligence.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
No, it means you're having a hard time with words,
comprehension of words. But there's also a term dyscalculia. Yes,
which is a beautiful word name of my sixth child.
With that, you're jumbling up numbers. But you could still
be a great writer. Yes, different things. We need to
be more Sooro with her beautiful and varied minds. And
it was the German psychologist William Stern who coined the

(09:58):
term intelligence quot in nineteen twelve. In nineteen sixteen, Lewis
Turman at Stanford University expanded the test for use in
adults in addition to children. And already that should sound ominous. Yeah,
what are you doing that for? What about? And all
these guys so far are white dudes with relatively similar

(10:21):
cultural experiences in Western countries.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Another problem already at the start of it.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, So that means that someone who wasn't raised with
a formal education, or at that time grew up in
more rural areas where schooling was furder, should access Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, well yeah, and I was just thinking that too.
I'm guessing all these men were also like college educated, yeah,
and Stanford, Yeah, and yeah. Back in the day, it's
like you worked on the farm and you might have
gone to school for a little bit so you could
like read and write, and then the rest of your
life was like working. But that has nothing to do
with how smart you are. It's just like my formal
education went up to this much. That was it because
there's one schoolhouse and like a fifty mile.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Stop going to Stanford. We need farmers, we really do.
Right now, love's really expensive. Anyways, I have a fear
that eggs are gonna stay this price. I'm just not buying.
I haven't bought eggs. It's so funny. I took my
roommate's last egg because I was going to tradeer Joe's
that day and I was just going to get more.
So I was like, sorry, like, use one of your eggs,
will replace it today. She's never getting that egg back

(11:21):
because they went up to like twelve dollars.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
I'm like, fuck this. Yeah, it's insane, and I love eggs.
I just I'm not gonna buy them.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
I can't. I can't justify it. It's insane and stuff
you should know. Also did an episode on grocery inflation
and how prices rose around COVID because exporting and importing
obviously was more challenging and more expensive. They never went
down even when those challenges went away, because once they raise.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
It, they're like, oh, they can do it, they can
afford it. Fine, people are still buying groceries. I'll just
leave it and then you know, the shareholders will get
their second yacht.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
So I'm calling you now. I'd be surprised if eggs
ever get very affordable. I think they'll go down. But
I think there's going to be a like whoa, they
were better than it was. They were still bad. There
was age, yeah, okay, but yeah, so these were college
educated white men who are from Western Europe or from
the US, and they are at this time including cultural

(12:14):
norms in their IQ town. Oh god, which has gotten
better over time. The tests have gotten less biased. But
language idioms and problem solving styles can be region specific,
so if you're not accounting for that, which there was
little to know accounting for that in that era because
there's one type of person. Just like with BMI's we
were talking about, it was all based around one type

(12:36):
of person.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, there was no like peer review at that time.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
It was just a bunch of egos of white men.
Like same thing with germ theory when they were like, hey,
wash your hands before you deliver babies, and the doctors
are like, h what am I a poor and they
didn't wash their hands and the people.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Died, so it was cool, We've got to do midwiffery.
Oh god wait yep, because those gals knew what was
app I.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Saw a comment sorry for another two. I saw a
comment on fucking Facebook about this stroll. Was like, this
guy was trying to argue that midwiffery was because of men,
like men invented midwiffery? And then someone responded, will men
invented the science that ninety nine percent of midwiffery is
based off of.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
The fuck they did? Not?

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Did men invent women having children?

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yes? Obviously they invented everything. Women are good for nothing.
For millennia, women have been birthing babies without men in
their lives. I don't expect Tuck Talk to have stuck
around with his lady all the time.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Necessarily, Yeah, but I just think it's so funny seeing
men that like, truly, truly believe that they do.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, you're gonna you're gonna love this. You're gonna be
shocked by this. But i Q tests were used by
Eugenesis to justify their racism.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
Well I knew that was coming. Keeps popping up lately.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Another good episode we could just focus on mm hmm.
So as Henry Goddard. Goddard probably good d a r
d mm hmm. Henry g Henry, Yeah, finish him old.
Henry in nineteen oh eight published the Bonean Simon test
of intellectual capacity, which was based on the foundation of

(14:09):
that first French guy offered Bene and Gadard's intelligence test
was endorsed by Eugenesis to advocate for forced sterilization.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
I was worried you were going to go there, and
I was hoping maybe you didn't, But then you did.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
We gotta oh Man here to speak the truth suck.
The idea behind it was that we should breed out
the feeble minded people who are having children who will
inherit their lack of intelligence. That's all that works.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
No, that's not any of this works.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
No, Now we know they're genetic variations that if you
have a child with a learning disability, it's not your fault.
It's not because you vaccinated them. There is a genetic
mutation of some kind. I don't know how that works,
but I know it's a thing.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, I mean, we have so much like genetic material,
more than just our chromosomes, like one different deletion, one edition,
one change, Like that's it.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, it's cancer, it's nothing. Alexas studied biologies. She knows
what's up here. It's true. There's also very much a
nature nurture fact of how you raise your children, like
what they're provided with, which I'll talk about that in
just a second. That's also going to affect their intelligence
quotient as it's measured here. So it's not just like oh,

(15:25):
you have learning disability there for your kids will have
learning disability. Right, that's absurd.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's like saying like gay people produce ye gay children.
It's like no, no, but straight people produce this gay kids.
So like how that again doesn't work like that?

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Okay, So I read in the Eugenics archive website. Oh good,
seems like a credible source. I mean they're not pro eugenics,
they're documentary examples of it. So that's good. That there
were laws allowing sterilization and that went on until the
seventies and over sixty thousand citizens have been forcibly sterilized

(16:00):
by them. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
I think we talked about that in one of the episodes,
Like in Puerto Rico, they were going there and sterilizing
a lot of the population.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah. And the seventies Wow, really comes through a lot
with like hell yeah, yeah, I mean shit.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Imagine like our parents were alive before the seventies, but
they're like that's just so where they lived in like
a completely different world.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
And it was Guitar who used it.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Was Old Henry who term ol apostrophe. Henry who used
the term feeble minded for people who were supposedly unintelligent,
which he believed could.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Be measured by IQ tests.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
I also saw that the term feeble minded was language
that was used by the Supreme Court in a decision
of Buck versus Bell in nineteen twenty seven, and that
upheld the constitutionality of forcible sterilization.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
And even though it's not an active practice now, that's
never been overruled by another Supreme Court decision. Don't say
that out loud. They're gonna find it.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
We're gonna find it.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean, Arizona's using an abortion law from like the
eighteen hundred. Give me forty milligrams of matter on are
we ride the constitution tonight? Literally that thing needs to
be ada teds Yes, so there are traceable consequences to
this this concept that we have this one neat little
test designed by like a guy that will tell us

(17:25):
if you're smart, and then it says if you're not,
do you really deserve to like have children or pro great?
I'm sure you didn't even think they deserve to live, right,
that's pretty fucked up. So, in addition to lacking cultural comprehensiveness,
these traditional IQ tests focused on pattern recognition, maskills logical
problem solving, which ignores many other types of intelligence. Absolutely,

(17:48):
and if you stick around, I'll tell you what they
are after the break. Oh yeah, all right, Oh I

(18:08):
usually I noticed every time we come back from the break.
All right, that's what it is, all right, all right,
I'll we live in a society where we say that
a lot. We're back, okay. So there are socioeconomic factors
that also affect a huge test results, like access to education,

(18:31):
and even now, schools that are in richer areas have
stronger funding. Better funding means higher paid teachers admin staff.
My mom even lied about our address when I was
a kid, partially for safety related reasons, but also because
she wanted me in a school in a nicer area
where we lived. The school that was right. There had
more crime unfortunately, so they weren't as safe, which is right.

(18:55):
That's another thing if police are coming to the middle
school and it's not a place where kids do feel safe,
even though like none of them do now because of
school shootings literally everywhere, which is insane awful.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Can you imagine doing drills no for shooters like that.
I'm scared as a fucking adult. Yeah, in a hospital.
I can't imagine being a fucking kid in school, Like,
oh my god.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
And how much like learning is hard under the.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Best of the situation. I mean, they already have other
stuff going on.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
They got, like, you know, there's bullying and their peers,
and they're trying to fit in.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
They're going through puberty, and they're the pressures of social media.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
And then also maybe there might be a Luna tic
that pops in here and goes off with the AK
forty seven because we believe in you know, the rights
of guns over children ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
So school access to schooling, even the difference of public
school and private schools mean that kids have unequal educational opportunities.
And whether your parents are involved in your life and
your schooling in a positive way, yeah, this is the
nature versus nurture thing where it's like you might have
had certain potentials as a kid, but then based on
what your parents were able to provide you. And also

(20:00):
that like where they involved positively, because I know a
lot of abuse survivors that wanted less parential involvement because
the involvement was so negative. Right, And this affects your development,
your problem solving skills. It ain't fair.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
No, if you're constantly in fight or flight, your brain
isn't open to being perceptive to like story time, you
know what I mean. And yeah, there's tons of data
on parents who reach their kids like performing better in school,
and I mean, how many kids.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Didn't have that exactly. So, even though we've moved away
from do you deserve to be sterilized, there's still this
feeling of like, if you have a high IQ, it
means you're smart, which overlooks the fact that a lot
of people just had a different developmental experience.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Oh, nutrition literally affects your brain. Yeah, we're going to
say that, Yes, kids.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
That are in poverty are facing this unfair challenge. That's
not an inherent limitation. It's literally just due to poor diet.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, I mean, and what is it like one in
three kids of like face hunger or something like that.
I mean, if you're fear hungry like I know, for
me personally, I get a little cranky, you know, if
I'm feeling hungry also, I mean, the reason we need
food is to produce energy in our cells to do
all the things that our body needs to do to
I don't know, fucking survive. So if you're running on

(21:18):
limited capacity, nothing's functioning at full speed. How are you
supposed to learn like that when you're you know, you
have low blood sugar, Like your brain literally does not
work if your sugar is too low.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
That makes total sense. Yeah, so that's another unfair challenge.
Let's talk about the Flynn effect. The what it's named
for the intelligence researcher James Flynn and his nineteen eighty
four studied. So it refers to the fact that standardized
intelligence scores have increased over time, and it seems to
be universal. This has been observed in data comparisons from

(21:54):
nineteen thirty two to nineteen seventy eight and again from
the seventies to two thousand and six, and it's attributed
to better education and better nutrition yeah, cool, But I didn't.
But there's a little Yeah. I did see a twenty
twenty three journal article saying that with a sample of
US adults where they had a subject group of thousands

(22:17):
of people and the study authors were using intelligence assessments.
They assessed the test subjects scores from twenty sixteen and
twenty eighteen, and they saw what they call a reverse
Flint effect. Old means the IQs are going down. What
do they attribute that to? All I have to say

(22:38):
is I love phone, phoneus love phone is life. Yeah,
this has been observed in sample groups from many countries
or overse fline effect. But they were all like Norway
to Denmark, Australia, they were all similarly culturally similar. And
a Q tests they have their flaws, absolutely they have.

(23:00):
I've gotten better, but the critiques from the well rounded
psychologists standpoint of like there are many types of intelligence,
still stands. However, if there is a drop in IQ
test results in what those tests are actually good at
measuring logic, reasoning, pattern recognition, it's just it's not a
great sign.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
No, but I think also question, did you get an
IQ test in school?

Speaker 1 (23:24):
No? But I did it as an adult out of
morbid curiosity.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, so I feel like it's we're not focusing as
much on it too, because we're not trying to get
kids to pass IQ tests. We're not focusing I feel
like this is just my theory, we're not focusing on
this type of education as heavily as we previously did,
would be my guess.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
What I was seeing with the articles related to the flinefactory,
reverse flint tech or the reverse flint at tech in fact, yeah, yep,
that's okay, I have those With the articles relating to
the fline effect or reverse flint effect, they were using
the words intelligence assessments, which I think is referring to

(24:03):
the fact that they are more well rounded than the
traditional IQ test. I saw a list of like these
are the different IQ tests that have been established over
the years. And I also heard this guy on this
podcast that went on for like two fucking hours, but
it was interesting talk about how some of those tests
are more flawed than others, some are assessing more types

(24:24):
of intelligence than others. So I think there's a little
more of a broader umbrella term of intelligence testing that
isn't as specific as that original Bene IQ test, Right,
But they don't measure curiosity or drive for intellectual engagement,
even if they are assessing different types of intelligence. That's

(24:45):
very specific and can be a predictor of success, while
IQ tests are not. This was interesting. An article out
of Yale School of Management stated that regardless of differences
in intelligence, it's rational thinking skills that correlated with fewer
life events, and even the most intelligent people will still

(25:09):
favor intuition to a fault. I see. It even looked
more like just not being overconfident in your own abilities
and intuition, because there was a study that found no
correlation between intelligence and a person's ability to avoid common
traps of intuitive thinking, which I also feel. Yeah, I

(25:31):
see that smart people are often lying. M I don't
know what's up right?

Speaker 2 (25:36):
No, I'm smart. No, so I know everything about everything
in all aspects of life. And it's like, no, no,
you know what's being smart knowing your weaknesses exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
That's a dangerous mindset. A longitudinal study in New Zealand
tracked a thousand kids and found that high levels of discipline,
which is bad news for all of us here.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
I know that.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
I'm sorry all you neuro spicy kids. I know that's
a real struggle.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
But it was high love of discipline and shocking emotional
intelligence that we're the best predictors of success later in life.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Wow, what people everywhere you have to talk to?

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Right crazy? And there was other qualities like the term
grit is coming up now, which is meaning like perseverance
and it seems to relate to conscientiousness and adaptability that
have been linked to success beyond what an IQ test
could ever measure. Test anxiety is real. That can also
get in the way for just narrowing it down to

(26:35):
a number, because some people I don't know, were you
this way where it was just like anxious, like sweating,
like even if you knew the material, like heart palpitations.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
No. Weirdly, in all aspects of my life, I have anxiety,
but I do not have test anxiety. I mean I
get like regular anxiety, like ah, test it means a lot,
but I don't get like the physical effects or like
the tunnel vision, which I do with other things where
it's like I can't see, I can't think. I'm just
like ah, I don't have that, thankfully.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
In nineteen eighty three, Howard Gardiner introduced his theory of
multiple intelligence, and there are now many ideas and psychology
land of how to categorize intelligence, so it is now
canon that there are multiple styles. I'm still not going

(27:23):
to tell you what they are, because I think it's
fun to list them out, and you gotta listen longer
if you do well in multiple styles of intelligence. Charles
Spearman would call that the general intelligence factor, or the
G factor. A he thought he was a straight up G.
I was like, on a G. I know, I thought
that was funny. I don't think that's why he called

(27:44):
it that. It is probably general. It's one of the whatever,
take it as you will. We're all a bunch of
g's over here. Hell yeah. He noticed in the early
twentieth century that people who did well on one kind
of test would often do well in others. And this
still falls in that controversial realm of early testing and
using the intelligent quotient like the Simon Benet test, and

(28:06):
it does assume that there's some underlying mental ability that
just generally makes you smarty pants. But this is a
little more open minded in that the IQ test that
I did take as an adult were more general than
what it sounded like back then.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
It was a lot of like what image will come
next in.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
A pattern and like if you rotate the shape, is
it going to fit here, which is more visual and
spatial reasoning being tested. I heard one psychologist in the
very long winded two hour podcast, which was also a
video podcast, Oh boo, and they're not like young and cute.
I'm like, I get it.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
If you're like, I'm a cute girl, I'm all dressed
up and like people like to look at me, Like,
I get it. Sure you want a video component. We
don't get off of podcasting. We don't even think it
should be called podcasting. Once you're filming it, that's something else.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, just call it something else. That's fine.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
You can just make a YouTube video guys, it's fine.
You can have microphones putty your face still, but it's
not a podcast.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
A podcast. Podcasts are for listening. It's like radio, but
it is radio different. This podcast, which I'll link to
in the source notes, was a psychologist who is very
invested in IQ test. That was interesting too. In researching them,
I found a lot of people who were like, no,
like this is very important, but it does seem that
there's been shifting and taking in the g factor and

(29:25):
taking in the multiple styles more so than in the past.
It is still dangerous to distill someone to a number,
but people who are very into this field are not
looking at it like that.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
No, they probably also like score IQ tests.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
They're like, no, this is an important metric. We should
totally use this for everything. It's a lot of dudes.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, of course, like all dudes, and I feel like
dudes probably score higher because I like, for me personally,
I don't know about you, but like, spatial awareness is
something I definitely lack. Like putting together a piece of
Ikea furniture will take me like three hours and my
husband like thirty minutes because I just like don't when
I look at the directions, I'm like, I, what's happening.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
And there's a lot of conditioning that goes into this,
oh for sure.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, like like boys build stuff with the brage, like
you're working with your hands.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
And I feel like video games helped too, because that's
a lot of like leaving spatial awareness. I've had two
roommates who were gay men, and they both were better
at like helping out if there's like a plumbing thing,
like something's leaking, And I even remarked to one that like, wow,
why do you weren't socialized as like a heat man,

(30:34):
But he was saying no, even still like my dad
knowing I was gay. I was like, no, son, like
I want to show you this, and I think that's
good because those are still life skills. Yes, women should
grow know that too well, exactly even with a single mom,
like she did her best, but she didn't know things
and she would get help and no one was. Ever,
I wouldn't have said yes, to be honest, I was
so like, get the fuck away from me. I'm very unhappy.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
But someone should have still been like, watch me change attire.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Right, So well, different upbringings, Okay, the psychologist guy I
was talking about on the video podcast or on the video.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Yeah, on the video on YouTube or whatever it.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Was on Spotify even Spotify those videos, Oh it's weird. Yeah,
you can watch things throw it in the trash. Why
do you watch things on Spotify that doesn't even make sense? No,
I hate it. He said that IQ is a score
on a test that will measure your G factor, and
your G factor is at the core of your intelligent skills,
which are broader than just what it used to mean.

(31:33):
He also said that SAT tests and standardized testing is
essentially a type of IQ test, and when you're going
to a certain program, they're going to wait things differently,
of like, if you're going into your graduate program with
a focus of something math related, they don't really care
about verbal skills, so that's fine. He also mentioned that
people coming from other countries or whose first language is

(31:54):
not English more more likely to do better in math
than in something reading or right.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, which makes sense.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
So Stanturday's testing, I'm sure have a lot of these
shortcomings we just talked about, but now at least there's
some broader understanding. And the G factor seemed like kind
of the start of that of saying like no, like
it's it's connected and it's more versatile than what you
might think. I did also hear about a study from Scotland,
same dude was talking about it. I looked it up,

(32:23):
bulling to it all and in the nineteen thirties a
psychologist recorded the IQs of a bunch of kids. It
was actually the goal was to test every single kid
aged eleven in the country, but there were probably like
fourteen kids at the time.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
The populations exploded and he did a pretty good job.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
The dude I was listening to said, he tested all
of them, but that seems absurd, Like how could you.
I don't know, it seems like a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah. I mean there was no phone then, so they
could just do that constantly, just go door to door,
like go to school, do you.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Have any eleven year old children please? Like taking a census? Yeah?
He tested a lot. And someone actually found those records
in the University of Edinburgh decades later and was like,
what's this, which is really cool I think to just
stumble upon that and then expanded on that research and
he tracked it down those kids who are now grown adults,

(33:14):
and what he found was that there was a strong
correlation between having a high Q as an eleven year
old and longevity, in that those kids who were considered
smart in that particular area were much more likely to
still be alive. They're not sure why, but act test
of the time, we're measuring logic, abstract reasoning, learning ability,
and the capacity of your working memory too. That might

(33:37):
be a person who is at least good at keeping
themselves alive. But there is a correlation also between intelligence,
mental illness, and addiction ah.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yes, so so then that should you know, fuck up
the data a little bit.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
People are complicated, we'll say that. But I just wanted to, yeah,
throw in everything I saw of like horrific origins and
evolution of it, stronger understanding of it now to fulfill
my teaser here. Going back to Gardner's theory of multiple intelligence,
we now recognize that there are many styles including and

(34:14):
it's time for our second break, including linguistic, mathematical, visual, spatial, kinesthetic, musical, naturalistic,

(34:38):
and intrapersonal and emotional intelligence. Wow, there's so many types, Ahi,
I don't have all those. I don't know mas numbers what.
And naturalistic too, I think that's like what is gardening?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
I was like, what does that mean? Is I'm at natural?
Like is that like street smarts or something like I'm
pretty sure there a picture of a plant or maybe
they're just because maybe that's just because the word as
nature and it's true and intra personal is different than interpersonal. Yes,
I wanted to make sure that's like I think it's
understanding of yourself.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yes, okay. Naturalistic is ability to identify, serve, categorize, and
understand natural elements, which does include like plants, animal environment.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
You're like outliving in the woods and you can survive.
That's a type of intelligence that I also don't have.
Oh yeah, I think that's so cool, like people who
can forage and like, so these are button mushrooms, but
these are poisons mushrooms, and they look exactly alike, but
you can tell the difference because the underbrushing of this mushroom.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Like, oh my god. Yeah, if I'm trying to survive
in our post apocalyptic world and there's someone who can
like help me live off the land, I'm not gonna
say that person's a dummy.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Absolutely now that person is coming on the apocalypse team. Like,
first and foremost, an interpersonal intelligence is about understanding yourself,
your thoughts, and your feelings, using the knowledge to plan
and direct your life, which a lot of people or
lack a lot of people you might consider smart, would
be lacking.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
And all of this is to say we have different strengths.
We can't distill it to one number. The tests are
maybe better now, but are they really taking all of
this into consideration, right, People who are brilliant musicians, maybe
you're terrible mathematicians. Although music is math, a lot of
the time. I think it.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Depends my My ex like was kind of a dummy,
but he was he would have scored super Hound Musicianship
and he was terrible at math, but like he could
hear piece of music and then play it.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, like exactly. No. I know someone with dyscalculia, which
is how I learned about that term, who is a
great musician, but yeah, doesn't read music. But also I
feel like I've seen in TV shows, which maybe isn't real,
people like kind of breaking down their sheet music into numbers,
and there is definitely like a time signature where it's
like four beats to a measure and then thirty two

(36:56):
bars and a chorus, And there's different skills that contribut differently. Yeah.
I think about that with art a lot.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
This like how one person processes like learning your lines, right,
Like some people can just learn it based off of,
you know, like the feeling like if this person says this,
that I'll cue me that this is the next line.
Some people just like straight memorization and some people need
to like hear it and like record it and do this,
and it just it all depends on how you look
at art, because yeah, you could just read music and

(37:22):
just know it because like you're so musically inclined you
just know the beats. Oh yeah, if you know the tempone,
it's like I just know that that's how that works, yeah,
versus someone else has to like break it down with
like numbers and math and time signatures and all that shit.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah. And my mom also used to say that when
she was bored on the bus, she would play a
symphony in her head from start to finish because she'd
heard it enough and she played. She was very musical,
and I was like, you know, that's like some beautiful
mind shit right right, like insane, like what are you doing?
She's just sitting there like playing every note in a
symphony in her brain because there's no phones. My god,

(37:57):
it on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
I've always wanted that I would wanted to be like
way more musically inclined than I was. It was like
felt like such an injustice growing. I was like, no,
I meant to be a cool rocker girl. I need
to play guitar and piano and be able to sing
and like write music.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
But I'm just I'm not. I'm an obnoxious person instead.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Which guitar is something that I feel is like socialized
into boys Like I just know so many guys who
were just always around the guitars and that's like kind
of in our culture, the guy with the guitar.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, I wanted to, you know, bookstands, and I took
guitar lessons for like a whole like three months in
eighth grade. And then this is this is me in
a nutshell. I stopped doing it because I couldn't have
my nails done. And you can't have long nails and
play guitar because you need to have like the tip
of your fingers to hold down the chords. And I
was like, oh, no, this isn't gonna work out.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
That's so funny. Also, rock climbing not gonna work no, no.
So yeah, then there's like a whole page of notes
that are just like me rambling drunk and listening to podcasts.
Not all of it. There's a little bit this good.
But this is when I realized that podcast notes are
basically journaling. I'm basically yeah, I think I'm just like

(39:07):
writing your feelings down. Alexis said that, yeah, get it out.
It's good, it's healthy, it is journaling is really good
for you. Yes, so you can you can have a
high IQ test and maybe that like boosts your like
your self confidence or something that's probably cool. I didn't.
I test high, but not as high as genius, which
is how I know they're bunk. I'm under one forty,

(39:29):
which is like the cap for mensa, so fuck it lies.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I've never taken one, and I don't want to because
I think it would just ruin myself esteem.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
It probably wouldn't, I mean, I don't know, but it
also I don't want to, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Like, if I scored high, I'd be like cool, yeah,
but if I'd like yeah, if I scored like one thirty,
I'd be like, wow, this is bullshit. One thirty is
still very superior, but it's not mental level exactly, So what.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Does it matter exactly? Yeah, when twenty five is fifteen
under one forty, So fuck all this bullshit. See how
it works? Then in there just doesn't resist. But that'll
flow well into what I'm gonna say next, which is
as soon as you start thinking that you're better than
other people or you're smarter than other people, you've lost

(40:15):
you have lost the game that nothing anymore.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Oh, because if you walk into the world with this
attitude of superiority.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
It will negatively shine through. People will be able to
tell they won't like it. And if you really are smart,
you should know everything is people. Every job, every success,
every money making opportunity, every relationship, it's all people, which
is kind of I get high and think about that
and start like shaking, like unless you want to go

(40:46):
live in the woods and have a little serama, is
that his same Henry's Yeah, if you want to do that, sure,
but most people don't. No, no, not be me.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
And I know a lot of probably ought to tech
bros who think they're the smartest buy in the room, they're.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Probably well actually every conversation, Yeah, a lot of Devil's
advocate and they are. I shouldn't. I'm like slandering autistic people.
I shouldn't. What I mean is.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
No, no, no, no, they're And also autism is very diverse.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Exactly, Yes, we did. We talked about that. And I
think our early mental health episode of like how girls
have more like girls have friends supporting them through elementary school,
which really helps develop social skills which might not come intuitively. Yeah,
I've been thinking about that a lot.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
More is an adult I'm like I used to feel
like really social and like didn't feel weird in social settings,
but now I feel weird.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
I've seen your Facebook. You had all these albums with
friends a long time, like was like, oh, okay, you
going a theater like with you know, with your pals. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
I don't know how to talk to people anymore because
I think I've been also like bullied so much where
it's like you talk too much, you're too loud, like
you're too this. I'm just like, oh uh, no one
wants to hear me yappen.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
They don't want to hear women.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah, I think I've realized that too, But it's hard
to like unlearn conditions that I've learned.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
So I've personally known more men who are lacking in
social skills but really good at logic and reasoning and
critical skills and pattern recognition. I've had friends who are
like really in admiration of that style of intelligence, who
think they're smarter than everyone, and in some ways they are.

(42:26):
But you've shot yourself in the foot and you're not
really that fucking smart. If you can't piece together that
your lacking of emotional intelligence will compromise your whole life right.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Like it doesn't matter how smart you are. You're not
going to get a job if you go in there
and act like a fucking dig.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
And they'll get a job in like programming maybe, but
then if they want to evolve to like managing people,
you're not going to get hired for that, no matter
your technical skills, because the person hiring you is looking
for social skills.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Yeah, it's all part of it. It's like a holistic
part of being intelligent. Like you said, you have to.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Have kind of a little bit a thumb in every pie,
the factor going on. Yeah, we got the deaffort empty
or straight up trying anyway, it's a constant effort.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
And yeah, there's a lot of checking yourself of this
of like we all go out of social situations like damn,
not my best work.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
That doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Oh yeah, uh for sure, I have bad social anxiety,
not like in the moment usually, but like later I'm like,
oh no, why did you see that? But even just
questioning it is good because that means you'll you'll grow
like being And that's the thing too, I've was talking
about with my husband. It's like you should be cringing

(43:39):
at your past self like that, looking at your old
Facebook statuses from like high school should make you cringe,
and if it doesn't, that's a problem because that means
you haven't grown.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
You should not be agreeing with high school you no,
And if that makes you feel ashamed, that's okay. Maybe
you were shameful. Yeah, but that's the thing. It's like
you grew from that, like you learn.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
That's good and that's the type of intelligence because a
lot of people make the same goddamn mistakes all the time.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
I love when Facebook reminds me of what an idiot
I was.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
No, I find it humbling, you know, when I'm a
little bit on my high horse. I like, just all
you gotta do is like that those Facebook memories from
you know, twenty ten, You're.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Like, oh, I some of the like borderline racist shit
that I was just parroting from my family was like
it was literally something like being bilingual is okay, but
I just don't want to have to press too for
English like that and an older wiser and I was
like thirteen, you know, I was like in that. I

(44:39):
was probably fourteen or fifteen, honestly, I was like, you're.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Making all these phone calls you have to press.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
English literally I had to pay my phone my water bill.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Hold on a second, yeah, literally? How often was that happening?
But someone very calmly replied and was like, you know, actually,
like this is just a useful tool, and it means
people have greater access to things. It doesn't even mean
that they don't speak English. Might mean they prefer just calmly.
And I remember reading that and being like, well, that
makes sense.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
And that's the thing too, Like if someone disagrees with
you in like a calm it's not you know, straw
manning the shit out of you.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yeah, and you learn from that and you grow from that.
That's that's good.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
That's a good thing in knowledges.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
I feel like some people's ego affects their intelligence.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
That's probably that pitfall from this. I think it was
the Harvard thing or the al saying. I don't know,
I said it already, but the pitfall of falling into
the trap of your into supposed.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Intuition, right, like, oh, I'm spared, so I know what
I'm doing. Whatever I'm thinking is the right decision.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yeah, And how can you question yourself? And if you're
that confident, so maybe you can keep yourself alive but
I don't know how fulfilling your life your longevity will
be right if you don't figure out that everything is people.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, Now I kind of want to take an IQ
test though, like they're kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
I mean I want to find like a legitimate one.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
So I feel like there's like ones online, oh the
ad and the side of the website, like free IQ test.
It's like I gotta find like a legit one because
I am like really good at math and like finding patterns,
so like maybe i'd be good, but like, uh, I
don't know, but some of the other stuff maybe maybe
not so much.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
I just enjoy learning, Like I liked taking the Myers Briggs.
I liked taking.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
There's no like wrong answer on Myers Briggs.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
It's not like, oh you are this that means you're
less worthy as a person.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
But it's a self examination at least, and the tests
are better now I don't remember what I took. There
might be like a free one on Mensa's site, I think,
just for like funzies, but it doesn't it's not comprehensively
sure and you can find oh, I took a couple
to see like a range too, and they weren't exactly

(46:51):
the same, which is cool because then it's like, okay,
it's varied. And also your IQ can change over time.
I saw that too. Can go up, it can go down,
can go sideways.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
I don't know, yeah, I think it also, I mean,
what's the test bank, right, like, are we this one
like slightly has a little bit more of you know,
linguistic stuff, or some other ones more like math heavy.
Like when I did standardized testing, my writing was always
like dog shit.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
My math was like top in the state.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Oh yeah, my writing was like you're failing.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
I was exactly the opposite. Maths and science was low
and reading and writing was quite was good. So see interesting,
And I don't think it makes that big of a
difference in our lives now. I mean with your medical field,
I feel like biology like probably was a better fit
for you. But I mean it's not like either of
us are doing a ton of like essay writing. I

(47:41):
have to I have to write research papers. But that's
okay because it's not that's you know, that's different. Yeah,
this self evaluation that can come from astrology Myers Briggs.
I think even intelligence testing can just be fun as
long as it doesn't like compromise your self esteem in
either direction, right, is part of the interpersonal and so
it's about the same.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Introspection is good because a lot of people don't do it.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
So I went back to the Myers Briggs video that
I watched on box, which all was very credible, but
I read the comments and it was like, whoever made
this obviously didn't like the results. And then all of
like up vote by like ten thousand or twenty thousand
out votes were like, hey, it doesn't necessarily say you're
this or that. It just tells you which actions are
attitude you're more inclined to show. The test revealed negative

(48:29):
habits that I was doing I need to work on.
They're so defensive of Myers Briggs, which is like thing,
I mean, you could also just like read your astrology
and like use that as a baseline, which is what
I think we both like about astrology of like, oh,
like do I really have these LEO qualities or not?

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Right?

Speaker 1 (48:48):
And uh yeah, someone said it completely glossed over the
fact that Carl Jung's original theory included dominant auxiliary tertiary
inferior functions, which is true, but that doesn't neatly lead
into what they did of dichotomies, right, So it was
just it was just funny. I mean it was a
pretty like factual video, and people took a lot of
offense because they really like Myers Briggs.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
I mean, there's nothing wrong with liking it. It just
shouldn't affect your like jobs. Yeah, that's my thing. Yeah,
if you want to be like, I'm an ian Ty,
so that means I'm the whatever creator, it's like cool meat.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, an I in t J is like whatever, Like
none of it's bad. Yeah, when it starts being used
in like we were seeing like federal government agents job
doing this and shit, yeah, categorizing you in certain ways,
that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, there's so many names that go around and I
don't know if they're true because I don't actually see
the evidence of this. People will be like, oh, yeah,
I applied to a job in like blank City or
you know, la and they asked me what my star
sign was and they said they like don't hire aries
or whatever, and overheard, Yeah, that doesn't I don't think
that happens. But if it did, seem like that's equally
as ridiculous. Right, Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
We should definitely do an astrology. Oh I want to.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I love astrology, but I also you know, understand that
it's it's you know, a little bit. But there's some
problems with how people utilize it, and there's problems with
people that are so vehemently against it that they like
get raging mad.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Like I've seen screenshots of people's dating profiles.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
It's like if you say what your star sign is
and I automatically swipe left, it's like, calm down.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
But good jokes about like Myers Briggs is the boy's astrology.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yes, it's on their profiles. Yes, I I think. Also,
I like the joke where guys are like I'm an Alpha,
I'm a Nobga, I'm Sigma.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
It's like, oh my god, I love boy astrology.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah. I also found an article about Katherine and Isabelle
who formed it. It was based on a book about
them called Katherine isabel Mother's Light, Daughter's Journey, so that
was their source. But it's much more positive. I think
I just assumed that they were like nefarious, yeah, because
I have negative I do have negative impressions of that test,

(51:03):
even though it is still fun. But it was like
they were just passionate about Carl Jung's work, and Catherine
was like a reader and a writer and she was
excited to like bring this into the world.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
So maybe she was really high on introspection and wanted
other people to do the same.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
But then people just made it as the boy astrology.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, which things. Things evolved, they I'll do. I'll put
that article in the sources that I don't think anyone
really looks at, but if you want to, and I
like to have.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
It there because if people want to argue, oh yeah,
you can just plain.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
But I think that was everything. I could summarize all
of that again, but I think you got it. I
like to like say the thing and then I felt
good saying the thing, so that I say it again.
I do that too. Yeah, there was that style of
writing in school. I remember where it's like introduction, body summation. Yes,
we called it waffle in Washington, which stood for something stupid.

(51:59):
That was like a standard way of not just learning,
but like presenting your ideas, which was boring. I feel
like that's how papers are written.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
It's like the abstracts at the beginning, and then at
the very end it's like results or summary.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Discussion, discussion, is a good one. Well take it as
you will. Testing. Yeah, some good, some bad, evil roots
such as it is.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Yeah, I feel like it's I feel like people want
to keep it because it's good for like school work, right,
That's what I was just thinking. Yeah, like the IQ testing,
like it's good to train you for standardized testing, which
will like lead you into college, which is like all
kind of the same kind of testing, right, yeah, you know, yeah,
like I.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Had to do SAT and act feel like one other.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Well, usually most dates have like a standardized test that
you have to do like every single year, and that
like kind of predicts how you do on the SATs,
which predicts how you do in college because that's how
the testing format is. In college, they'll see how successful
you are, and it's all just a certain type of
judging you how you can get through, you know, the
American school system.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
I am looking at anti programs and going back to
community college. I already told Alexis, but if you've been
out of college for ten years, which I almost have,
I think I'm like right on the CUSP. You have
to take their entrance exams, and I got so I
was like, excuse me, I'm a Berkeley graduates studied something

(53:22):
sciency and you want me to take But then I
was like, that's everyone has to like, don't be an idiot.
It's probably not going to be that hard, but having
to study for a math test for the first time.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
In a decade is going to be funny. Yeah, because
that's the thing too. It's like, if you want to
go back to school and you're like older, they're like, oh,
it hasn't been over ten years since you've taken like
a math course, Like you have to take at least
a fucking algebra one before you want to come back
to this.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Yeah, but I'm surprised because it's kind of like this
is just like almost like a trade school program. It's
not like you have to stay for a year and
do prerequisites. It's like, you get one semester. We're just
going to give you what you need to know. But
it's just a requirement of the school period. So that'll
be fun. I believe in you. You got it. I'm
sure it's simple math. I just have to refresh it. Yeah,

(54:05):
I'm heavily calculator reliant. Yeah, I think all of these
standardized tests, all of these requirements by schools, I would
love to see and hopefully, you know, if it all
doesn't come crashing down around us, which are probably will,
we'd love to see more allowances for neurodivergens and kids
who like would benefit from just like sitting on a

(54:27):
fucking yoga ball, Like they have more things now. I
feel like, like sure you can have a fidget spinner.
And lots of people learn very differently and in combination
of ways. It's usually not just like I'm a visual
learner one thing, or like I'm a kinness. It's usually
a compilation.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Right, or like percentages, like it's like eighty percent of
it has to be this, but like I think like
a five percent of this.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
I hated school. I really really did not enjoy that process.
But I like learning. So that tells me, like, oh,
like things were not in an accessible way to me.
I'm really excited with emt Like there is some like
alongs and like you gotta get it's gotta be a
lot of hands on.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
That's great, yeah, love, Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
I knew a lot of people like that, Like those
were my friends in school, Like they were like crazy
smart like soup, like loved reading and like loved learning
but like we're fucking failing.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Every classm Yeah, clever person I know dropped out at
fourteen because they were just so fucking bored and like
did fine yep, and lie about having a college degree.
Sometimes they don't usually check.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Oh no they I know a couple people that do
that because like, what are you gonna do? Ask for
my transcripts?

Speaker 3 (55:31):
For some things they probably they bite.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Yeah they bite.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
They do for my job, but most jobs, yeah, they don't.
But for for mine obviously they're like, please tell me
you went to an accredited.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
School, which is fair in that case. Yeah, don't don't
lie on your resume if you're gonna go handle people's
lives exactly. But hopefully the testing could theoretically get more
diverse and more understanding of different styles and how to
help people learn whatever it is that they're maybe lacking
in presently but could develop. Yeah. I am miss Sandrewsmes

(56:03):
on Instagram and.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
I amtxcoth GF and we are sad Gap dot Podcast.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
You can email us at Sadgap dot Podcast at gmail
dot com, Visit our website sad gapdash podcast dot com.
Follow us on Patreon for ad free episodes Patreon dot
com sad Sad Gap, also the name of my vagina.
You'll never forget it. I think that's funny. I'm not
letting it go. We're on Reddit, We're on Discord. All
the links are in our Instagram by oh.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Yes, and go on over to your podcast slatform of
choice and give us a five star rating. If you'd
go on over to Apple and write us review, we
would love to hear what you have to say. Rate review,
subscribe and share with a friend.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
EQ is a very high predictor of success. Never ever
forget it.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
That's right, and we're stronger together.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
We'll see you next time.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
By