90: On the Challenges of Being a Woman in Comedy (WOMEN IN MALE FIELDS!)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to Sad Girls against the Patriarchy. I'm Alison,
I'm Stephanie, and I'm Anna, and we are your sad girls.
I know what you guys are really here for.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Oh that was good. That was That was a good
one too. It was very satisfying. VA actually all I
came for. Yeah, you can leave now.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
V should be sponsoring me because this is VA Energy
Drinks and I'm obsessed with them.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I didn't know they made it. Does it taste like
tomato juice? No, it tastes really good. Do you want
to try some of it? Okay? Cracking up in a
cool drop the sponsor VA. Come on, Wow, that's really interesting.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, okay, tastes like Yeah, it tastes like V eight
Still okay, all right, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
If you really undersold it, we just we propped them
up so much.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
No one's gonna buy it now. Well, people who like
V eight will fair enough.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
We have some new voices here today. We have Stephanie,
We have Anna. They are hopefully going to start their
own podcast soon.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Right, Yeah, that's the works.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, so this is like a it's just their trial run,
it's their playground. Yeah, thank you, experimenting here.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Why not?

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Now Alexis is taking some time away, so I'm kind
of mixing in her episodes that we have pre recorded
and then bringing in some new voices as well, which
is great. But we'll just find our flow. Please feel
free to talk over me. We'll make it work. It'll
be great talking over you now.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Thank you. I enjoyed. I enjoyed it. We'll get better
at interrupting each other. Good fun. You know Jewish people
that no, I'm serious.

Speaker 5 (02:02):
Somebody told me that a long time ago, that it's
a compliment to be interrupted means that you're actively engaged
in listening.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
And I didn't grow up that way. My mom my
family really believes in that. I agree. I think it's
a sign of healthy, normal conversation.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
In a podcast, it can be a little harder to navigate,
but that's okay. I'm gonna kill our flow and pause
for a second, and I like to leave all those
bits in by the way, all the like, I'm gonna
pause and we're gonna do things. They get to see
behind the scenes. I like that, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
I like that, and like overall in life, like the
more you can give me like this limited a dish
insider info like, I'm so here for that.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I'm like genuine experience, a human experience. Yeah, show me
your vulnerability.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
But I met Stephanie Anna showing their vulnerability at an
open mic doing comedy, which is their thing. So we're
going to talk about women in comedy today, of course
through the anti patriarchal feminist lens as we do. Do
you have any was there anything you were like burning
to talk about right away before we get into any
interview question.

Speaker 5 (03:07):
I did have something, and now I can't remember what
it was, so I'm gonna have to put a pin
in it.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
So that's a no. That's a no.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
No. Wait, can I swear on this? Yes, that's a
fucking no. I appreciate you. That means you don't have
anything to say.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Oh, there was something.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
I was thinking about it right before I fell asleep,
which is why I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It now, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Should have had a v eight. Well, I thought it
was kind of interesting. I wanted like, I thought it
was very apropos. I am doing my first like Roast Night,
and it's ran by men. Like a lot of the
smaller shows that I do, they're ran by men. And
it's funny because they matched up all the females with

(03:45):
other female comedians and all the other and it's and
it's something that I've experienced across the board in terms
of like being a woman in a more male dominated scene.
Is that like they don't want to go as hard
on you when we're going at each other in a
pract to space. They almost like do this thing that
they think they're being gentlemen by saying like, oh, I
won't match Stephanie up with you know, some guy, because

(04:09):
what if he says something about her being a woman
or something that offends her, when hey, I'm there to
actually be your equal and get down and dirty and
like go for it at the same level that you are,
So I'll it's like an interesting balance because another girl
or another woman rather could find that to be like,
oh I feel so safe I'm being matched up with
another female comedian.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I agree.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
I think there's something insulting about the assumption that oh,
we have to put it feels like it's the same
thing in sports, where it's like, Okay, I get that
men's bodies are different than ours, and I understand why
we're matching up differently, right.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Sure, wouldn't it be fun to just give it a shot?
Like why not?

Speaker 5 (04:48):
Is it always about like, oh, I want to have
the greatest chance of winning, Like not necessarily. Sometimes it's like, hey,
I want to grow here. Like men hold back when
they're when you're in like a battle of making fun, even.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Just in life.

Speaker 5 (05:01):
They is at work with my coworkers, I insult the
men constantly and I can see them holding back the
thing they really want to say, and I'm like, say it,
what do you?

Speaker 2 (05:10):
What are we doing?

Speaker 5 (05:11):
It's just so it's a roast, That's what I was
gonna say. Really, yeah, it is a roast.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
It's kind of like a positive sexism in a way,
and that they're sort of positive prejudices where people will
have an assumption about someone in a good way, but
it's still based on a general concept of their stereotype.

Speaker 5 (05:29):
And yeah, I feel like it's for the men's comfort
not the women's in some case, right, Like I feel
like a great they're like I don't want to feel
bad if I say something mean about this woman.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well, and then on the other end, like we're all
like at the level that I'm at and performing with
like we're not performing regularly at the comedy Store. We're
not at that level yet where we're like worried about
cancel culture. But even so, because we're at this immature
level for lack of better terms, where we're all like
white belts battling it out, I think that there's this

(05:59):
hesitance because of cancel culture to really want to go
there with being equals with women and saying that stuff
because God forbid, somebody gets a clip of them roasting.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Me filmed, everything is going on Instagram.

Speaker 5 (06:14):
Well, this goes back to something that I've been contemplating
a lot ever since cancel culture became like a really
prevalent thing. Is there are some spaces that we don't
need to do that, right, Like a roast is the
perfect example, unless you're, you know, a white person using
the N word or something. I feel like pretty much

(06:34):
everything is fair game in a roast. Yeah, that's the body,
your personality, the mistakes that you've made in your life
that are public, Like anything is fair game other than
racism or blatant sexism. Maybe even yeah, because sometimes that's
funny too, But like how to be funny.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
You have to ask yourself.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
And I think Ali Wong says it's like, how good
of a joke do you want to write? Do you
want to look at me maybe make a joke about
the fact that my hair is curly, let's just say
something really basic like that, Or do you want to
dig a little deeper? Do you want to notice that
I'm wearing much mismatched socks and then say something about that,

(07:15):
like how detailed and how far do you want to
go with your joke writing, because that's going to imply
what type of comedian you are, how good you're gonna
do with that roast, et cetera, rather than just saying, oh, yeah,
you know, I could have thought, yeah, I looked at
you and you have curly hair.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
The more specific and niche it is, the more impressive
it is. But yeah, it sounds like, for sure, the
roast is like an arena in which we've already decided
that this is okay. So it shouldn't be a place
where women are giving any kind of special privileges for
being ladies.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:43):
I think if you're going into a roast worrying about
offending somebody, I think you're already wrong.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
But that's the whole point, right, I mean, it's not
a fucking date, Like I don't need to pull the
chair out for me, Like what like there's no room
to be polite in that.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Really good point here?

Speaker 5 (08:00):
Do men always think that everything they're doing with a
woman is like on a date?

Speaker 2 (08:05):
A date? Is that really what's happening here?

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Ship?

Speaker 1 (08:07):
It was a date?

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Damn? I wish there was a man in the room.
I really want to ask them that. I'm sorry, what
was that? You wish there was a man in the
Can we call right now and hang up on?

Speaker 1 (08:16):
The kind of men we've invited to be on are
very hand carefully selected here, who kind of know how
to how to process these things, so we'll have to
grab Yeah, we do have We only have curated men.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Girls. That would be hilarious.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Please never put that on your dating profile anyone.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
What is a curated man? Someone I chose? What are
the qualify? The qualification?

Speaker 1 (08:42):
They have all the principles of being a male feminist,
but would never actually call themselves a male feminist.

Speaker 5 (08:47):
That's interesting why this person the specific choice of they
would never call themselves us.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
It's just cringey. It's taking it's other people take advantage of.
They use it to manipulate women. Of like, oh, I'm
a feminist, I'm your ally. It's just like comfortable. But
at the same time, obviously they should be a feminist
in an ally it's a little complicated.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, it's kind of like you're talking about it, you're
not being about it. Kind of clue.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
But this also relates to chivalry, I think where I
don't like it when a guy just makes a big
show of opening a door for me, or like an
older guy calls me sweet artists and they're thinking he's
being sweet to me. There's implication there. If you have
to open the door for me, it means I could
not have opened it myself. And that's why these old
rules existed. Of like, women used to have these big, cumbersome,
ugly clothes where they like could barely They were like

(09:30):
shuffling around with hoops under their skirts, and they would
get hurt if they weren't helped.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yep, it's not true anymore.

Speaker 5 (09:36):
I used to feel that way. I would get insulted
when men would open the door for me, But I
don't feel that way anymore. I actually want them doing
things for me now. Yeah, but I actually feel like
that is like feminism.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
But my version of it. That's that's interesting for you though.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, because you grew up in such an opposite way,
I would almost say that you're like making your.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, I'm coming full circle.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
So what she's referring to is that I was raised
Mormon and I listened to your episode on trad Wives.
Oh yeah, coming on this show, and you talked about
Mormonism a lot. So I'm glad that we came around
to this because I was like, Wow, they ended up
talking about Mormons a lot, And you're right, most of.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
The Tradwife content is Mormon women. Oh yeah. I was
also raised religious.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
It wasn't Mormonism, but it was definitely like the man
who is out of the house, the woman is meant
to serve him and be submissive to him.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
And I agree.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
There is another side to this too, where it's like
you should be doing things for me because my life
is harder than yours.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yes, because of a certain thing.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
So yeah, fucking lay down a coat so I can
step over a puddle, Like why should I have hah?
But then I just kind of think it gets to
like what are the motivations? Like are you doing this
so you can have sex with me? Because if so,
I would rather walk through the puddle.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, and I think that's why I resist. That's a
crazy point.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
I had this feeling that men were doing things for
me because they were expecting something in return, and I
don't feel that way anymore. Or I just don't care
if they're expecting it, because I know they're not. I
decide to give it no longer matter. So it's like, hey,
I'll take whatever you want to give me, and if
you expect something, that's on you right like I feel now,

(11:05):
and that feels a lot better.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
I just don't like, I don't want to be perceived
by men.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
There's a lot of memes, but it's like, I don't
really want you to engage with me or look at
me or talk to me like speak when spoken to.
But otherwise we're good. It's okay. I get that, we'll
take our space, you perceive me.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
I don't want to be seen. That's what we say
in our apartment. We don't want to be with I
don't want to be I don't want to be witnessed.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
I don't want to be seen like by like my roommate.
But well we live with a well, I say, a boy.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
My fiance it's very telling Randy around. I don't know,
I bump into him in the bathroom, Like we allow
him to live with us, I'm going to marry him,
spend the rest of my life with him.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
I don't know, no, but like there's just I don't know.
I think he's a he's a good boy, I would say,
but like not in the curated he's a curate, a
curated it was like curated men, just to say that
curated man picked. But he he grew up with a
lot of sisters, so I think he gets the whole like,
don't witness me situation.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, give me my space to just have my own.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I was gonna say, like divine goddess status, but it's
more like when I'm.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Like a trash person, but that is divine goddess status.
I agree. I totally agree with that.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
The number of like gorgeous, fantastic, beautiful, amazing women I
know and then I see their room and it's just
like squalor.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yes, wow, like Anna's car live in trash, it's pretty bad.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
I mean I practically live in because I've did it
so much. That's la.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
So I will say, we just did we just shot
a sizzle for our show called The Worst right, and
I had I was set decking and I had to
recreate like the character that's based off of Anna her apartment,
and I made it look exactly like we were just
explained like absolute.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
School Waller there was like made it look worse than it.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
Well, it's TV hunt, I know, but I just need
that to be said out loud on record.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
I noticed they go watch it. They're not like Jesus Anna.
I will be post backed.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
I will post pictures of Anna's kitchen cabinets on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
For all to see later. Just no, but like it
is absolutely true.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
And I think that, like there's so many of my
friends that are like brilliant creative women, right, their priority
is not to keep their house clean, not to keep
their car clean. And as I've started to accept being
more and more of an artist, like I had three
shows one week and I looked and I was like,
dishes haven't been done, laundry hasn't been done, I haven't

(13:41):
picked my makeup off the counter once. This like just
shit like that because the priority in the self esteem
isn't coming from ooh, this is what my house looks like.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Right, In a way, it's very pro feminists because women
are traditionally expected to keep a house clean, So in
a way, we're just subverting priarchical nor exactly.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
That's also why I don't cook. That's why we live
in squalor. Yeah, I can't expect. That's why I love
in Squalor.

Speaker 5 (14:06):
I've been a feminist for so much longer than you.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
You can twist anything to fit your narrative if you
try hard. Exactly, we have our different priorities.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Roommate situations are hard, but as long as you find
the people that you can tolerate, then it's a good.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Fit tolerate well. And maybe from Stephanie's perspective, I don't know.
I tolerte her. We're gonna take for our first break.
You get to do that. It's very fun, but I'm
gonna press pause. Take a beat. There will be some
ads and they'll get to you. Guys know how podcasts work.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
And then when we come back, there will be some questions,
the first one being how is being a woman shaped
the way you're received on stage? Like my audience, look
you by other comics. Right after this, I feel so

(15:11):
seen today. I think we were There was like another
bit we were gonna try to get something about coffee,
go for it.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
It started this is your problem, not mine.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
All that I wanted to get at was that there's
this one there's one thing specifically that bothers us. So
we had a fake the therapy session recently around this
topic and it was so much fun for us, but
it was one of those moments where everyone around us
was slightly like, wait, they're actually fighting.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
It's like, it's kind of like when you used to
walk in on me and my actor my fellow actor
classmates rehearsing a scene and we weren't looking at our
script and you thought we were actually in a fight or.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, it was kind of the same thing.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
So like just all to say, like to kind of
get to the comedy of it all, Like when two women,
especially when you're in a friend setting, let's even just
take it there. But when two women are going for
like this deep like satire almost where they're trying to
do this petty fight, that's what we like to do
this a lot. We like to have a fake petty

(16:14):
fight in front of people and kind of air our grievances.
And really, I would say that people, even our lovely gaze.
They don't know how to they don't know how to
find it in their nervous system to understand that we're joking.
Even if we repeatedly say hey, this is a this
is a full bit.

Speaker 5 (16:31):
In most people's minds, they're like, this is going to
end their friendship. Yeah, conversation will end. Because we're very
willing to be super brutally honest with each other. Yeah,
it's a good quality.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
So this is what happened. This is what actually happened.
We're sitting on our couch and chairs and whatever in
the living room. It was Stephanie, myself, Stephanie's brother, his partner,
and I think Brandon was there, Stephanie's fiance.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Brandon wasn't there.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
And somehow the topic of cleanliness in the house somehow,
and Stephanie said, I don't remember how.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Somehow remember it was probably me. I was just well, yeah, yeah,
I was trying to be nice. She brought it. Sephanie
definitely brought it. Is this couples there, you're gonna have
to change the name of the podcast. You might have
to chase it.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
So we started to do this bit of having a
fake therapy session, and we were like Joe Stephanie's brother,
please be the therapist. He said, so today, what do
we want to discuss today?

Speaker 2 (17:28):
And so we get into it.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, but ultimately headline, we start to get into it
and we're we're going out a solid ten. So you know,
our voices are a little bit raised. We're I'm telling Anna.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Just acting as if we're acting as if the energy
is there.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
The energy is there, The energy is a ten. But
what I found to be so interesting was that it
alerted everyone's nervousness.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Everyone got so scared.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
But when we do it, when we do the same
bit in front of one of our girlfriends, which we have,
it went completely different.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Like a shrill woman she was the men. That's what
I'm not trying to go there just because I'm on
sad girls. Ag, I'm not, that's what it is.

Speaker 5 (18:07):
But I think I think men get uncomfortable when women
are really honest, because usually when women are really honest
with men, it's because they've done something very wrong.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, well it's like coded is a more masculine quality,
so it's like women, yeah, women in male fields. Yeah,
I learned to make men uncomfortable with that. It was
really fun and also to be really crass in front
of them. Yeah, like, oh yeah, stepped out of a box.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I remembered the thing that I wanted to bring up. Okay,
oh wow, A.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
While ago is kind of along these lines. A while ago, somebody,
a man told me like, oh yeah, when you do
comedy as a woman, like a lot of times, when
women do too many like sexual jokes, then you know,
men just think that she's like all about sex, And
I'm like, well, what if she is, what's the fucking problem?

Speaker 1 (18:51):
And also that's not what you think when a man
does sexual exactly. I thought that was really interesting.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh I could talk about this for hours.

Speaker 5 (18:58):
Yeah, there's a lot to be said about this top
in like also like it's comedy.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Again, we're not on a date. We're not on a date.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Don't pretend I'm never Yeah, I'm not bringing up sexual
stuff like Okay, So I talk a lot about rape
in mine and so in my stand up. So when
I do that, like men in the audience get so
fucking uncomfortable, And I've had to say it in my
practice spots. I haven't under said this in a performance,
but my practice spots I go to primarily middle aged men,

(19:26):
some younger men whatever. But you know they're going up there,
they're talking about women hating shit, they're talking politics, they're
talking about Diddy and like people who are notorious rapers, rapists.
And I go up and as a survivor, and I
make a joke about rape where it's like, you know,

(19:48):
we're in a safe space, we're not my childhood bedroom.
And I've had this good think it's my favorite joke,
top top one joke. But no, it's like I have
to say them, are you guys afraid that you're going
to rape me? Because I'm bringing this up? Like what
is the discomfort that happens? And it's every time, Like

(20:08):
I won't even lie to you. I don't even think
it's like a man woman thing. I think it's a
it's a world patriarch toxicity, brainwashing thing that a woman
going up and talking about rape, talking about abortion and
having it be her experience, just we won't allow it
to be funny, even if that person is saying funny
things asking you to laugh. But then a guy can

(20:30):
go up and talk about ditty and baby oil and
that person actually like is more likely. Ah, it fucking
drives me nuts and it's because what I've surmised is
that they go, oh, well, she's unsafe, and that makes
me sad. Seeing somebody unsafe or hearing about somebody not
being safe is a turn off to people on stage.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
That's why I'm saying it.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I'm saying it to make them uncomfortable and think about that.
And that's why I haven't let go of talking about that,
because I think it's important. I think we need to
get used to hearing women talk about that and owning
it and making jokes about it.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, no one else is going to do it if
we don't do it.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
The women in Male Fields meme that went around was
one of my favorite things because it was just all
these things of like ooh, telling him that I'm not
ready for a commitment, except I want to see him
every day. Women in male field, I don't think the
guys listening to that bit or worried about anything as
practical or like cognizant or present of what's going to
happen tonight.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I think it is what you're saying of Like, in.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
General, it doesn't feel good to listen to someone talk
about pain that could happen to them.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
It's a little different if it's like another.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Guy who is talking about it more abstractly because they're
never going to be the victim of that, so they
can joke about it.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (21:44):
You know, I was watching a movie with my ex
boyfriend once, the movie midsommar. If anyone's so yeah mid summer,
I don't know how the hell you're supposed to midsummart right,
thank you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had arguments with people
about that.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, it's not a horror movie in here.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
And there's the scene towards the end spoiler alert, but
you should have seen him by not super where the
guy gets loured into the circle of women who basically
want him to impregnate this woman. Right, And my ex
referred to it after the fact as a male rape scene,
which I guess could be an accurate characterization, but he

(22:20):
was acting so try. He told me he felt traumatized
by the male rape scene, and I said, it's just
a rape scene. It's just rape. But you and I
thought it was so interesting that he made it different.
A man getting raped was different to him than a

(22:41):
woman getting raped. That's not supposed to happen in his
I think that's when it went off in his brain
that's not supposed to happen. Okay, But yeah, and he's
watched a lot of rape scenes in other movies that
where women have been raped exactly common, but that he
couldn't take.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
But that okay, But here's a good question.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Let's just say, let's if we may generalize that all
men feel a way you're axdent.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Let's just say, let's just play.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
That game that it's more comfortable for them to see
a woman being raped than a man. But then on
the other end, it's more comfortable for them to hear
a man joke about rape than a woman. Right, that's
fucking killing it. It doesn't make sense. That makes no
fucking sense. If it happens to somebody with my body
more often, shouldn't I be the one talking about it?

Speaker 5 (23:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Right, I feel like who says what?

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, it feels farther away if it's a man talking
about it, and it feels farther away if it's a
woman being abuse.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Also, Yeah, nobody wants somebody to get abuse, you know.

Speaker 5 (23:39):
Fun Stephanie and I there are some people that should
be abused. Stephanie, I were in a show a while
ago in West Hollywood, and there was white male after
white male after white male comedian at this show, and
then they're at a gay club, at a gay club
in West Hollywood. That way it doesn't yep, it was

(24:00):
very interesting. And our gay friend was like, very like,
what where are the gays and these? And afterwards, the
guy who hosted it, he actually is my ex boyfriend,
he called me and asked me for some feedback, and
I said, you know, I said a lot of things,
but one thing I said was it was a lot
of the same guy in a different font over and

(24:21):
over and over again, and they were all telling a
lot of rape joke. There was a lot of rape
jokes that night, and to the point where he even
felt he had to point it out live in the
middle of the show, like, oh, there's a lot of
like you know, he's there's a team of the night.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
I didn't realize we had on the fire and everything.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
Yehow yeah, exactly, And all those jokes got way bigger
left than Stephanie's rape joke. And then I went up
and told a story of being roofied down the street
in West Hollywood, and my joke is about how I
got roofied, And then nobody tried to fuck me, which
I think is hilarious.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
You were the third woman I know who's gotten roofeed
at gay bar in West Hollywood, and.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
The bartenders were y people in those areas. It's really bad.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Someone told me that it seemed like it was like
they kind of weren't welcome there, and so, and I
don't necessarily believe I've heard his different theories. So like
when was that someone who I.

Speaker 5 (25:08):
Was with a gay guy when I got roofied, he
got roofie too, So what the fuck right? You're like,
I had my ass Well, he is Camponian, so maybe
it was racist.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
I don't know racially, but.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
The idea that straight men might do it because women
are letting their guard down, and that's yeah, because it's
like they're they're kind of like hunting sort of a thing. Yeah, yeah, No,
I know two other people are the same thing of
like right in that strip like by the abbey, yeah,
in West Hollin and a lot of phone stolen there too.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
The abbey has a really really really bad reputation for
roofing people or people getting roofed there.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
The bartenders do it. They can't. How can you spend
more money on drinks if you're staggering.

Speaker 5 (25:43):
That is the question I asked myself, and I think
it's honestly psychotic that they do that. But yeah, I
have not figured out the motivation yet because I agree
with you now, I'm now I don't need more.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Do you think that there's different motivations to rufie people.
I mean outside of the point that you brought up
where it was like get away from us or being
a predator, but like at the end of the day,
the result is to rufi the person.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
I just want to understand.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
It's like, why are we cutting fentanyl into cocaine if
you're going to kill your customers. I think it's I've
looked at that already because I don't understand cross contamination.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Is that's a really good point.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, why the fuck would you be a drug dealer
who wants to kill your clientele, which is what's going
to happen.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
So I just you're right.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
I mean it doesn't really matter, like don't don't accidentally
do someone with fentanyl or purposefully actually in either case.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
And also don't roofee people. I just have to stop.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Also, don't roofee people for any reason, Like I just
don't get it, but sorry, you can continue story.

Speaker 5 (26:37):
Yeah, but I mean it was just interesting that Stephanie's
rape joke was like making people uncomfortable. My joke about
like why didn't somebody rape me on those side, you know,
like what's wrong with me? Like I'm not rapeable?

Speaker 3 (26:49):
You know.

Speaker 5 (26:49):
That was kind of the point of the joke, was like,
you know, people laughed at it, but they were kind
of like this, and I was.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Like, yes, like for the love of God, well, and
I think this is a big thing in general, Yes, exactly.
It's like there is not one thing I'm saying on
stage that I want you to go. Ah, I feel
so bad for you all. Like I would go to
a twelve step meeting. I wouldn't go to this location
if I was looking for like love and comfort and understanding.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
That's like, we're not on a date. Hashtag we're not
on a.

Speaker 5 (27:22):
I think this is the conclusion that we're coming to
about women in comedy, is we need to inform men
off the rip. I just want to be clear, this
comedy show is not a date between me and any man.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
I think we've discovered the solution.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, thank god, I got the engagement, Like I got engaged,
like right when I started doing shows and like really
doing comedy, because a lot of the time people other
comics would come up to me after we're in a
practice spot or and open mic, and I would think
that they want to network, why because That's what I'm doing,
But no, they want.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
To fucking dude, they want a date.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
And to the point where they once I got engaged
and I showed up and I started doing I have
jokes about being engaged, obviously, but.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
They're like, oh, what a shame. I thought you were
so what a shame? And I thought you were so
so key, What a shame?

Speaker 3 (28:12):
I liked you, But now that congratulate you notations now
that uh, I can't fuck you, that's off the table.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, I don't wanna.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
That is your inherent value as a woman. It's being suckable. Yeah,
if you're if you're only hearing this for the.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
First time, my god, I had no idea.

Speaker 5 (28:34):
Oh yeah, well, And I just love when men remind
me that that's my value in life, you know, don't
you guys love that broh.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Never let you forget well, and even the good ones
like I went to an audition for this place called
Flappers and the guy who runs it, he's a lovely man.
But he said to me, like, you should try dressing up.
But because of all of the other interactions I've had
with other male comics, I wasn't able to leave there
and just go oh, he saying maybe I should try

(29:01):
wearing something more fancy, some a jeans and a T
shirt kind of goal. But he really I'm choosing to
believe that he gave me that feedback because I have
dressed up for shows sense just to see what different
like what energy comes out that's different.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
And I do think that there's.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Different energy, sure, But because of my experience with other
men in many fields, specifically in comedy, it was so
hard to even take that feedback from somebody who's a professional.

Speaker 5 (29:27):
It's hard not to read it as you're saying that
because I'm a woman.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, without filtering it.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Because it made me think, and like I asked, thankfully,
I asked the other male comedians that were there and like, oh, yeah,
he gave me similar feed like that's just something he said.

Speaker 5 (29:39):
That's what I was gonna say. Is I wonder what
he would have said if you said, oh, okay, that's
really interesting feedback.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (29:45):
Can I ask you a question have do you tell
men this or do you just tell women this? Yeah,
but you asked the other male comedians, which was probably
the better move. I'm very confrontational, So.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Okay, I think it's very real.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Well, that actually knocked out our first few questions here
that I forgot to remind us of, which in a
good way.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
I just was like, wait, what questions do we have?
So the list was how.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
I was being a woman shaped the way or received?
Do you ever feel pressure to play down or lean
into your femininity? How often do you find yourself being
the only woman in a lineup? We kind of yeah,
I kind of hit a lot of these indirectly here,
certain topics being too much or too niche, especially, I
would agree, sexual humor. Have you ever felt tokenized or

(30:31):
used as a diversity pick in a show?

Speaker 3 (30:35):
God?

Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yes, I haven't been doing a stand up comedy. I've
only done it a few times. Stephanie has a lot
more experience with stand up comedy than I do in particular,
but I've been in a lot of improv shows. I
used to do improv a lot, and I'm primarily an actor.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Gotcha comedy? Adjacent still comedic in nature, I would.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
But I've always been funny.

Speaker 5 (30:56):
That was the coping mechanism I chose as a child
to deal with my trauma.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
So you're welcome. Everyone chose the one, and if it's you,
so grateful, thank you.

Speaker 5 (31:08):
And whenever I was doing improv I men used me
as props for the butt of their joke. It was
very interesting, right, and so I just started doing it back,
because again I'm confrontational. It was fun and I was like, hey,
that's a great You're right I should be doing that
to you, which I think was a great response. But

(31:30):
but yes, I did notice a visible difference between the
way that they would treat male improvisers versus female improvisers,
and we became props to them, and that felt really
fucking icky to me, and I hated it. It was
something I really really rebelled against. And I don't even
think they were aware of it, And so when you

(31:50):
point it out to them, they're like, that's not what
I was doing, and it's like, I know, you didn't
realize it.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
That's why I'm pointing it out.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Well, that's why it takes actually brain power for you
to go, hey, how do I not do this the
way that my brain does it every time? Men, that's
what we need for you to do. Male improvisers, take
one extra second and that brain of yours and just go,
how do I not sexualize the women? How do I
make her a platonic friend? How do I make her

(32:16):
a manager of the establishment? How do I make her
the uber driver? Well, and that's something that I really
really love, the uber driver.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
I take it back, I take it back, I take
ceo zeo.

Speaker 5 (32:30):
Well, for anybody that is looking to do improv, that
is one thing that I really appreciated about studying at
the Groundlings. And believe me, I have a lot of
bad shit to say about Groundlings, but one thing.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
They're mean.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
They're fucking mean, man, and not always in a good way.
Sometimes it's good, but like anyway, one thing that they
really really challenged people to do. Although they did this
at io Wes to Rip, it's no longer they're my
favorite improv place go on. Groundlings would really really challenge people.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Especially in level one.

Speaker 5 (33:05):
Almost every improviser has a tendency to want to go
to toilet humor or sexual humor, and every time that
would happen, the teacher would stop them and say, okay,
so we have a rule in level one that you
don't do poop, humor, p humor, or anything sexual. It's
just just in level one, right, just in level one.
You can get back to it, but we want to

(33:27):
stretch our imagination.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Much further than that toilet and got it.

Speaker 5 (33:32):
Ok. And so that did force the men to not
be able to be allowed to sexualize the women, and
all of a sudden, they were so fucking creative, well
on a concept. But I was really glad that they
did that, not just because I didn't want to be
sexualized constantly, but because, yeah, just from a creative comedic standpoint, like, yeah,
do something else, just like they were saying to me,

(33:53):
do something more than sexual Yeah you too, bro.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
There's this whole preface I forgot to like state explicitly
that I'm sure everyone knows, but it's the comedy is
an extremely male dominated field.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
In itself, and I think.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
People know that, but if you're not in LA and
going to open mics and purposely seeking out comedy shows.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
I read a stat I think it was like ten
percent of comedians or women, I probably be kind of hard.
So I can to identify that number. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Like, so I've been to more rooms than Anna, so
like most of the spaces, that statistic is absolutely correct.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Right.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
I've gone to one full women's open mic and that
was an interesting environment. I've had one show that was
all females. Now I've done shows though. I did two
shows at the beginning of April, right, and one of
the shows, I was the only female in the lineup,
and they introduced me as a man named Stefani.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
I mean, I kind of I don't mind that though
when guys it was so funny third before I think,
like out of the corner of their eye because I
have short hair, or like almost like as a sign
of something like yes, sir, I like it. I'm like,
I feel like that means you respect me more, because
sir has a whole different connotation than ma'am. Ma'am is
like that's your mom or your grandma that I want
to be nice to you. Sir is like, yes, sir

(35:06):
in the army, you I'm a thought me. Yeah, So
if someone introduces a man, I feel like it's a
sign of respect.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Well yes, but it was more so a sign of
them being illy poorly prepared, like it's just able.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
To read a line literate.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yes, Like you know, I like to go on stage
and if I am, I'm gonna say, you know, I'm
your female perspective of the evening and then the show
that happened later on that week, there were two female
comedians and guests. But they did they shoved us right
in the middle together, which isn't bad placement. I would say,
middle is you're either gonna want to open, be middle

(35:41):
or be cool. We're back to back, We're back to back.
Two females just smack them right next to each other.
And I was like, I and again, you gotta call
it out. So like I try to call it out.
But these boys, like they're tokenizing us in the sense
that they're like, let me let me get at least
one all on here, let me get at least one

(36:02):
because jacobox, they're posting it on Instagram. You can see
it with other diversity as well. Like there was they
had one woman, they had one black comedian, and they
had one Asian comedian and that was it.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
That was it, that was it. And then on the.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Friday they had one Asian, one trans and then me
the female. So like they diversify, but it does in
some ways. It's like, do I want to hate on
them for trying to diversify? I know, but like, do
I want them to be mindful about how they're placing
me then, or even just the fact that I get
to call you out about that, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
It just starts a lot.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Earlier than who are we picking for a show. It's
that if there's a whole industry that's not welcoming toward women,
or is only really welcoming toward white men, then you're
not gonna have a lot of people to pick from.
And then people are like, well, you know, I'm trying
to but it's like it needs to go a little
bit further.

Speaker 5 (36:56):
Well, I think that's hard is that it's so subtle
and comedy like that, it's not this thing of like,
you know, generations of wealthy men have passed their wealth
down to their sons, and.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
All the comedians I know are not that.

Speaker 5 (37:13):
Yeah, but generationally there is a subculture or like it's
built into the culture of comedy that the white man's
perspective is the one to hold as the standard I suppose, right,
So anything that is not that is now suddenly interesting.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
And different and new. And while that.

Speaker 5 (37:37):
Is obviously true because we are just now becoming open
to that as a society in general, I do feel
that because of that facet of culture in comedy, it
is easier for white men to step into a room
and get a laugh than any other person. Yes, and
no one is going to be able to prove that,
but you know it when you see it, right, saying yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Well, yeah, I see it in writing my own material, Like,
so of course I have the stuff that I really
want to talk about, rape, abortion, being engaged, having the
perspective of like the whole brides at whatever shit that
I want to talk about that I find to be
hyper feminine, that may or may not lose an audience.
And when I know, hey, I just tried to go

(38:20):
for my ten minute rape section and the first three
jokes in't hit, I now have to pivot to like
my straight white male stuff like material to cater to
this crowd, because this is what they're here to see,
and ultimately I'm here to entertain them, and I want
to enter Like, but it's it's rough because I do
think that there's a huge point into what you're saying,

(38:42):
and women comedians even doing the quote unquote new interesting
thing like myself, where it's like, okay, well men have
talked about their wives on stage, so let me talk
shit about my fiance, same joke, flipped perspective, right, So
well it lands fine, but it does land as well.
And I'm doing it because this is what people are

(39:03):
used to hetero couple back and forth. You know.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Well, yeah, I mean you want to be successful too.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's not like I'm just going to write material just
because I think it's funny.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
You need other people to think it's funny. It's all right,
and that's a good point of that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
I organized an open mic in one of my jobs
and there was a gal who was there.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
I think you might really enjoy her work.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
I'm pretty sure he name's also Stephanie, but not with
an F, so you know, Eric's bitch over there.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
And Derek Stephanie.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
But no, she was like, you know, men joke about
their body parts a lot, so I'm going to talk
about my uterus.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I got into her cramping and her periods and I
was laughing, but a lot of people were uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
I'm thinking, like, this is good, and this is useful.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
But at the same time, do you really want to
do a set where there's only one person laughing and
everyone kind of leaves uncomfortable?

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Where do you go from there?

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, I don't think it's a compromise to say, like,
well I want to do that, but maybe I need
to pivot so that I can literally just get my
next book and get a book A.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Well, well that is a factor. Yeah, I mean you can't.

Speaker 5 (40:02):
I want to be the person that always goes up
there and makes people uncomfortable. But yeah, if I do
that every time, no one's are gonna want me on stage.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Well, a few people were, but they're probably not the
people who have the authority to book you. Because that's
the one thing about like taking the step back to
like infrastructure is not quite the right word, but like
it's probably men who are going to be booking clubs.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
You do need to do what they will think is funny.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
It doesn't matter if there's one random sad girl feminist
out there who thinks you're funny.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Shit, she doesn't have the power.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
To book you.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
And that larger point, do I wait for the bookings
or do I make my own thing? And the women
that I see who are above me? Like, there's this
one woman who who booked me on one of her shows.
Her name's Anna Manus. She is a flippin' badass, and
the reason why she makes money and does it is
because she hustles, She produces, she travels, she does. She

(40:52):
has made her own way, and she gets to tell
whatever joke she wants. She gets to hire whoever she
wants to hire. And there's that path. But I think
to be able to say I've done a show at
the Comedy Store, or i got booked by Jimmy Shan
or whoever, it is like, you want to be able
to hit some of those. You want to be able
to go on kill Tony. You want to be able

(41:14):
to say, hey, I want on kill Tony. And I
hung out with them, and I did the freakin' cis
White Man thing.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
And I hung with that.

Speaker 5 (41:21):
And it's not even necessarily because it's a cis White
man thing. It's like for me going I would love
to go on kill Tony. I would be honored. I
would enjoy my And it's not because I'd be like, oh,
they chose me. It's like I would enjoy that experience,
right right, But who's going to be more likely to
be chosen for that experience? Me or the random white
dude you know that went after me, Right, I mean
to be frank, probably the white guy. But if I

(41:43):
get chosen for that experience, it almost feels more special,
But then it shouldn't, right.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
The special is.

Speaker 5 (41:49):
Because of the implications of it being a patriarchal thing
motivated thing, right, like a dude space.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
And by the way, I'm okay with dude.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
Spaces versus chick spaces like that doesn't bother me at all,
But it's just the It's like, Hey, if you're gonna
make a space where you're not gonna let me into
it unless I, like somehow earn my way.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Into it, then you have to be okay with me
doing that too.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
Yeah, and you have to accept that that's gonna be
the reaction to it.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Well, it's been a big question for me, Like, how
do I being somebody who's joined a lot of boys
clubs right, very much a dad's girl or however the
fuck you want to put it?

Speaker 1 (42:25):
Podcasting also a boys club, podcasting also a boys club.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yes, hello, but like sorry, I forgot I missed my
spot now, but like no, I'm lost.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
There's that Oh, do do I want to put on
the mask and put on the persona and roll my
sleeves up and play with the boys to get in.
There's always that question. It's always a vibe out or
do I stand strong in my femininity?

Speaker 2 (42:53):
And when?

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Like when do I play different cards to get what
I want? You know, because at the end of the day,
I want to get what I fucking want. I want
to get on that person's show. So I'm gonna go
up to them after we have our open mic and say, hey,
when the fuck are you gonna put me on your show?
And I can't go like, I've noticed that you do
it like, I can't go up with my femininity At

(43:14):
that point, I have to go up being fierce and
say to them in their language, Yo, when the fuck
you're gonna put me on your show?

Speaker 4 (43:20):
Bro?

Speaker 2 (43:21):
When the fuck are you gonna do that? Because they won't.
There's interesting point.

Speaker 5 (43:24):
It would be nice to be able to approach these
spaces in my feminine perspective, because you're right, you have
you basically have to approach it from your masculine which
is okay. I'm very comfortable with my masculine side, yep,
but it's I'm too comfortable with it. And I've spent
most of my life in my masculine because that's how
you get anywhere in business, life, life in general. The

(43:46):
only place that doesn't do well is basically in dating, right,
like to be a woman, that's it and.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
You always think about it.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Is also like those really sweet, like subversive boys, they're
always really into it, and I'm like, yeah, except I
don't want to be daddy like my daddy everywhere.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Founman and Davy.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
It really works for a certain kind of simp and
I support him, but I'm not for him.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
I'm not sure if that's in your experience.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
I don't want to ask about who you're engaged to,
because we don't need to get you know, there, unless
you're interested.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
I'm doubt I mean analyzing that.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Do you want to well, I'm just curious if you
guys have had the experience that I've had of like
very sweet, submissive straight men who like really want kind
of like someone to take charge. Yeah, and I'm sure
they've been expected their whole life, because this is the
unfair condition that's placed on men that like men are
supposed to be tall and strong and caretaker providers, and
women are supposed to be docile and sweet. So if

(44:39):
you are not a guy who fits in that, and
you a woman who's not diasyl and sweet, there's something there.
But for me, it's like, yeah, except I'm I'm tired
at the end of the day. I don't want to
decide where we're I already made all the decisions all day.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah I'm tired.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (44:52):
Absolutely. I used to get so frustrated. I was married
briefly in my twenties aunt to a Mormon man.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Oh and even.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Though no.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Going with that gross Okay, yeah, that's actually that was
the final straw for me. I left the church after
we got divorced, which is great.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
No, Yeah, but he and I when we were dating,
he would always go, BIB, where do you want to
go to dinner?

Speaker 2 (45:15):
And I would be like, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (45:17):
I chuse the last five times, like well, I don't
want to pick something that you don't like, and I
was like, I literally eat everything, just fucking pick something.
And it was so And he wasn't that. He wasn't
like a type of guy. He was very He was
a motorcycle mechanic, he was like.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
You were very burly, you were very masculine. Don't worry,
you're a pussy. But that was like a pussy thing
that he did. I had to it was very frustrating. Yeah,
the the inability of.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
God.

Speaker 5 (45:48):
How do I characterize this. It's like this, like I'm
supposed to be the leader. I'm in charge, but only
when I want to. When you like, well, I hate
that ding ding ding ding ding. You just hit the
emotional labor button. Emotional labor, emotional labor button, emotional labor
for five hundred.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
All right, my exes.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
In terms of the doormat guy, like, I will say
my first boyfriend ever.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
His name is Zach Allen. Shout out, hey, Zach Alan.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Love of my life. We lost our virginities to each other.
He was a senior. I was a freshman.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Right, But it's nice when you can lose it together.
I didn't have that exa. We lost anyway together in
the back of a car and not a drive in
movie theater. So close yet so far? Did the gearshift
go up his ass? No, but we did that.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
We went back the next night to do it again,
and we got caught by the cops.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
They're like, not twice in a row. They're like, like,
we let you have one. Not too uh, but no,
he was such a doll. He was so obsessed with me.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Guys brings me coffee every morning, would drop me off
the litter. There's no other way to put out than
he was like my bitch. He he did everything for me,
and that got so boring for me so fast. And
no tear shade to him. I bet you he's the
most incredible husband and father right now, like period, Like
he was such a good person, but I ate him

(47:18):
for breakfast, Like I was borderline abusive because I could
just get away with some I could just give me this,
give me this, give me that.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
He would. It was no problem for him.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
And then I would say the next man I was
with that was long term was like exact opposite, like
just wanting to be like he wanted to have the
relationship without having the relationship. He yeah, so we all
know what that is. I just saw very non situationships.
But it like went on for six years. Like he

(47:51):
was like I wanna, I want you to live with me,
and I want you to like do all the things
that I want a wife to do. When I want
a wife to do them, but like, I'm not going
to commit to you in terms of saying, here's when
we're going to.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Hate that shit.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
And then if you were to like go try to
be with someone else or something, they'd be so threatened.
It's like you're the one who told me not to commit.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Oh gut, shit down it was.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
There was a thrupple situation, there was, it got fucking wild,
and now I am the messy one in an age
gap relationship and it works. Really, this is the best
case scenario for me. I'm very happy getting to be
with a fully trained man who has made all the mistakes,
been yelled at by all these other women, including his

(48:35):
sisters and his mother, and now he just shows.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Up with a bow on him for me. They did
all the hard they did have some X in his
path off.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
I was just crying all the time in therapy, and
you're like, God, he's great.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
Yes, yes, some other poor woman did all of the
dgnity being emotional lady, And I.

Speaker 5 (48:54):
Speak from the perspective of a thirty seven year old
single woman who probably left a lot of men better
for other women when.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
I found them. Happy mother say to all of it.
I think about this all the time.

Speaker 5 (49:07):
I always think about my exes and I think like,
there's some chick out there who's.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Like, thank God he did that to her, not me. Yeah,
and I'm like, what am I going to find that one?
It feels further and further away the wonder you get
does No.

Speaker 5 (49:21):
It's okay, though, but this is there is something I
actually wanted to mention when you were talking about getting
into the male spaces comedically, can circle back to that. There's, uh,
there's an interesting thing that I like to do when
it comes to getting into male spaces, and this is
any male spaces, not specific to comedy.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
What I do is I play their game and I
have a joke about this too, which I'll share. But
I play their game and I bro out with them
and I give them big sis energy and stuff, and
then once I'm in, I start acting real fucking girly
and then they don't know what to do.

Speaker 5 (49:55):
And it's the funnest thing. And I would recommend, ladies,
if you are, go for it. So that's what I
would do when it comes to something like kil Tony Okay,
I would get in by being a dude, and then
when I get there, I'd be like, surprise, bitch.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
So you're gonna Amanda binds them like when she went.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
In Man when she's She's the man based on a
Shakespeare play.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
It is I think it's yeah, yeah, that's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
We're going to take our second break and then I'm
going to say something about the whole nice guy concept. Yes,

(50:40):
we were just talking about man spreading and the way
that just the position of your legs affects.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Your politics anything. Here.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
You know, dudes be thinking they need a lot of
space for their balls and they're just not that big.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Well, also, don't they don't Don't they like them being squeezed?
Oh my god, you're right, they're always comes. They want
them squeezed and pull get the ball. My personal preference.

Speaker 5 (51:04):
Well, in fairness to the men, I'll just give them
this one little nugget. It's and it's you know, they
get real sweaty down there. And they've also told me
that if they don't spread when they're sitting down, then
they get crushed. So there's like a squeeze versus a crush, right,
which I get. Like, if somebody were to like sit
on my titties, I'd be like, how that hurts, like.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Need her claws on my Yeah, I love you, but no,
I'm in pain.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
The nice guy thing because when we were talking about
I was talking about simps and guys being a little
bit too.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Submissive in a way.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
I mean, it's pretty archaic, these concepts of like masculinity, efemininity.
I think we all know that, but we still use
them to label certain things.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
That were taught to me.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Someone had to teach me that femininity means softness and submission.
Someone told me that masculinity means being tough and being
a leader.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
That's not true.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
But I don't want anyone to get into that mindset
of like girls don't like nice guys, because that's absurd.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Everybody wants someone be nice.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
That is the bare minimum of just being a human
interaction in the world. I'm talking about the kind of
guy who really just wants someone to take care of them.
And in a couple, you should be taking care of
each other, and you can get away with that. As
a woman, you can walk around like I want someone
to take care of me, and you'll probably find someone
who is.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Comfortable with that.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
But when the reverse is true, I just think if
women are going to be expected to work so hard
for everything that they achieve in life, they can't also
be expected to tend to the man and provide all
this emotional labor.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
Nobody wants their partner to fucking do nothing, And then
I have to carry the relation. If the relationship wouldn't exist,
if I wasn't trying, Yeah, then it already doesn't exist, right, Yeah,
and that could go either way.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Well, it depends do you want a transactional relationship, because
there are people out there who are quite dumb for that,
who are like, you give me all your money and
you don't. You can cheat on me, you don't have
to pay attention to me, you can speak to.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Me however you want. Would I ever live that life?

Speaker 1 (53:08):
No?

Speaker 2 (53:09):
I think it depends on what they're paying. Well, what's
your what's your price? Get out my Excel spreadsheet.

Speaker 5 (53:17):
I think if I think if I was getting paid
a million dollars a year to have that kind of relationship,
I could probably make it work.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
A mill I think that's that's nowhere near enough. Yeah,
litually a million, like doesn't count?

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yeah, then yeah, then we're a million is like a
number I can conceptualize because I can look at like house.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Price and maybe that's why I pay it.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yeah, but five million is like what am I going
to do with five million dollars?

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Just maybe you can just like zoom him from across
the world. Yeah, you could pay for his services at
that point. Yeah, send the maid out. Yeah, interested people
please inquire?

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Right five mil? Going well, going.

Speaker 5 (53:53):
Back to the whole simp concept, right, like, this is
an area where no one wins. You are either too
controlling and abusive as a man, or you're a simp
as a man. Yeah, because we don't allow men to
be nice, right, Like, there's there's not for I'm talking
about like basic extremists, right.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Like expectations, sure, or that shouldn't.

Speaker 5 (54:13):
You're either like a brute and like you're not a
pussy or you're a pussy, right Like there's really there's
like no in between when it comes to like raging masculinity.
And I find that to be very detrimental to men
and to women. But see that's so hurting because simps
the concept of a simp. It tells men that they

(54:35):
can't be nice otherwise they're gonna be labeled as a
pussy by other men.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Right what?

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Yeah, so youal no like, I don't even know where
I'm going with this, but I'm going to say what
i'm thinking good, which is okay, I'm by And I've
always looked for a woman with like this masculine quality
to her, like aura, like not her necessarily her appearance,
and then for a man when I'm looking for men,

(55:00):
I want them to be men with like like I
talk about this with my girlfriends all the time, like
what's the weird thing about you?

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Like, what's your niche? Like, what's your weirdness?

Speaker 3 (55:08):
And then physically, I like men to have like a waist,
like a nice waist that I can reach my my
arm around and hold big spoon them.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Those are my things.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Like when your dating profile a big spoon for you
exactly exactly.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
And I think that there is room for that type
of nice guy. I think there are girls out there
who are like opening themselves up to it because like,
nobody wants that fucking meathead anymore. Even if you're Taylor
Swift dating Travis Kelsey, you don't want the meathead.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
He's still really like she likes be able to talk
about his feelings otherwise.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Yes, or the nice boy has to like be willing
to kill a spider, Like, do you know what I mean? Like,
there is I think a good in between and I
think the bisection. I'm not saying that, No, I'm just
trying to say that this is the bisexual movement.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
We're going to make it happen.

Speaker 5 (56:03):
Oh you queen, well saying that that doesn't exist. I'm
saying that the in extreme masculinity or patriarchy, there's no.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Space for that to be accepted. That's what I'm saying. Oh,
I completely, I was.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
I was trying to get to the joke, that's all. No, No,
I got there, I got I was just trying to say.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
That through the Missanders memes page.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Literally, there are guys in the comments, you guys and
the dms who are like, oh, queen, like I want
to be your slave, and like please like to grade me,
and I just like adore women, I hate men so much.
I'm like, honestly, like I do prefer this, like I
do kind of appreciate you in a way, but at
the same time, like I am not willing to step

(56:44):
into that role. I cannot be your patriarchy. Yeah, I
have to lean into my masculine side to feel like
I keep up in these very male dominated spaces. But
it doesn't mean I want to do it all the time. Yeah,
we all contain both. We should just be trying to
be whole, complete, aware people for our partners. And unfortunately

(57:04):
that's just not enough that No.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
I see where you were going though, where it's like,
don't make me your daddy when society literally already makes
me be my own father.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
I really have my own father. It's so true.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
I can't be anyone else's father too. Oh god, Yeah,
and I know it's so real. I know some women
who are very like, very very strong women. I mean
we all are, but very like outwardly projecting strength, but
then they want to be sectually very submissive. And it's
because it's like I just have to work so hard
all the time, Like I don't want to have to
do it at all.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yes, they just want to be taken care of.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yes, absolutely. I also feel like I was one of
those people for a really long time where I'm very
type if you haven't gotten that from what we said
about our apartment cleanliness. I like to be in fast
paced environments. I like to be seen as a leader.
I usually need to be in the know and whatever, right,
and in my sex life, especially in my younger twenties,

(58:02):
that resulted in like a lot of like disassociative sex,
like I am the most like I'm a blow up
to it. And it wasn't until like I started stepping
into like my womanhood earlier or later, like with my fiance,
where I started having like sex where it was like

(58:22):
equal equal sex, Like is that a thing? Can we
make that a term like equal sex where it's like
this isn't me being a blow up doll for you,
This isn't you being you know, thor whatever the fuck
for me.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Or it's like no, but there's none of that needed.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
And we are really just like here to enjoy peace
and pleasure and there's not even like if such a
feeling with like that being outcome oriented sex. And I
think that that's also such if we want to use
the word such a masculine thing, because when I'm I'm
not going to every time, and I don't necessarily want
to go until I come every Like there's just I

(59:03):
don't know, I don't know how I got intoll now
very much.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yeah, Like sex is about penetration, it's about the man finishing,
Yeah about the woman pleasing. Yeah, these are ancient ideas,
but what the root of this is and what that
ties into too, is that women are taught that they're
not supposed to really enjoy sex, and that's shifting somewhat,
but they're only supposed to be there with a man
as successory. But then men are also taught that they're
not supposed to be gentle and soft, so.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Then you end up with these extremes.

Speaker 5 (59:29):
You know what's interesting about what's changing. What I've noticed
for men when it comes to sex.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Is that she's sucking a twenty five. Well, this has
been happening for a while.

Speaker 5 (59:41):
Every guy that I've had sex with in the last, like,
I don't know, seven or eight years, is so they
take it almost like they failed. If you don't come
yeah to where they won't stop until you come. And
I've had to fake it with a lot of guys
just because I'm like, I'm done here and you're not
gonna listen to me. If a guy is reasonable and

(01:00:02):
you go, you know what, it's just not gonna happen
right now, and they go, Okay, I get it. Like
if if you're calling it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Their ego, if their ego can take it if.

Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
Their ego can take it, that's a big sign. But
there's a lot of men who can't write their ego
can't take it. They're like, no, no, no, no, I can. I
can make that happen for you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
And because and it's this weird, I can make it
happen for you.

Speaker 5 (01:00:21):
I know, Well it's this weird reversal, but also going
to it's a three sixty where instead of going like, oh,
we're gonna focus on the woman's pleasure, you're now making
it about your ego.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Yes, if I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
Please you, then I'm a failure as a man. And
I it's I guess we're gonna be in that space
for a little while until they like experiment with it more.
And like I'm trying to be gracious about it, but
it's like, nah, you gotta listen to me, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Like a popularize mutual masturbation? Like can we popularize a
mutual masturbation? Like can we popularize lazy sex? Like just
the laziest Like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Oh, you're not on porn enough. There's a ton of
that on there. Oh no, I don't know. You want
to know why? Because I don't masturbate it that often.
I do it, but I don't. We should alsoize women masturbating.
I have do it every day, guys.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
That's why people think I'm twenty six and I'm thirty seven.
It produces collagen yay retin all cream or chasm all
over my face.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
All over it, all over. That's the new facial. That's
the new facial.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
No.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
But speaking of women masturbating, I had nothing else to sean.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
That was good though, that was thank you for that.
That is true.

Speaker 5 (01:01:33):
Do you know the amount of women that tell me
they don't masturbate. I'm like, I don't understand that. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
I was raised very religious and was taught that for
men too, masturbation is the equivalent of adultery, the same
fantasizing about being with someone you're not married too, so
you might as well just be doing it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Which but I guess this is why I think a
big flaw in that, like one of them.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
But I guess this is why I do really well
with like rebelling against things, because I was raised in
an extreme form of that where I was told that
if I did that, that I was never never ever
going to get to heaven.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Sure, and I knew that, and I still.

Speaker 5 (01:02:07):
Did it because you know what, that's how great orgasms are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I will risk my eternal salvation for that fucking devil
speaking right now in saying that right now.

Speaker 5 (01:02:21):
Yes, the programming is very terrible, and I've seen a
lot of it, and in all seriousness, it's really bad.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
However, it's not true.

Speaker 5 (01:02:28):
You should be able to come whenever you want in
your own body.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Absolutely, you're right, And yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
It just makes me sad how many women don't masturbate
because they don't think that they need to, or they've
never tried it, or they don't think it's like a
woman thing or religious reasons or whatever. Like, man, you're
you're gonna have so much more fun during sex too
if you can.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Yeah, body, Yes, I teach my I teach partner dancing
like ballroom dancing, and I don't do I do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Yes, I also dance, and I don't quite say it in.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Those exact words, but I try to instill with people
like you become a better partner dancer you work on.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
You're dancing on your own, which is so true. It's
the same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
But I don't usually take it to jacking off unless
it feels right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Well, it should feel right that comes with the experience,
you know, doing it by yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Religion is very true.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Religion is just so patriarchal in itself, like all of
the Abrahamic religions. I mean, I only that's what I
was raised in, of like the overlap of Christianity and Judaism.
But it's just pervasive. And we've talked about in episodes
before of like when did this idea women are supposed
to be submissive and take a certain role that we've
assigned them start And there was no identifiable origin.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
It's just ancient. And I think it's because they're physically.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Smaller in biology, so as we likely evolved into this.
Assumptions were made based on that of like a man
can overpower you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Therefore, like we have extrapolated from there. We know what
I imagine?

Speaker 5 (01:03:58):
Tell me, I imagine that I was thinking about this
during work the other day when I was polishing soy pots.
Pots polishing soy pots, and I was thinking about the
first caveman and cave woman. How did they discover sex?
This is this is where my brain goes when I
have nothing to do. Okay, I thought, well, this is

(01:04:23):
what must have happened. The woman was in danger, and
the caveman instinctively saved her from the tiger or whatever.
Maybe he picked her up and ran her far away.
Maybe he beat the tiger up, maybe he shot it,
beat it with a club. I don't know, right, and
he did that because he was like, man, I don't
want to have sex with that, not knowing what sex is,

(01:04:44):
but you know, you just your body keeps the score.
And then her response for sex, this is the first
sex ever, okay, And she's so turned on by the
fact that he saved her that they immediately just get
right into it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:05:02):
They don't even know what they're doing, but they figure
it out in the moment. And that's because of like
the the highness of the adrenaline and the savior aspect
and stuff. And I think that that took root in
the man's brain right then and there and said that's
how I get late.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Ovulating. Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting Yeah, I'm sure
there's many you want to know what I think it was.
That's what I imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
They're in the cave and then it's morning, and then
obviously the guy has morning wood and she just sits
on it. I think she does feel like a chair
she goes that looks right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Here for better or for worse.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Now we live in modern day Western society. We are
almost out of time. So I'm just going to bring
it home to comedy again, which is kind of a
classic concept question line of thinking here of what advice
do we have for any girls interested in getting into comedy?

Speaker 5 (01:06:04):
Just say what's really on your mind when you're creating comedy.
I think women have a tendency to censor themselves and
to try to dim their perspective or to hold back
something that they really really really want to say, and
just know that it's not always going to be well received,
but that's actually a good thing. Change your relationship to rejection,

(01:06:28):
where if you're getting rejected, especially by white male dominated spaces,
that just means that you're forcing growth in them and
in yourself. And please just don't be afraid of being
loud about things that are true for you. I see
women struggle with that all the time, and it makes
me really sad.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
And then if we make the choice later to adjust
your approach, then it can be a choice. But at
least you've already entered with absolutely like this is me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Take it or leave it, baby. What about you doing thoughts?
Let me start here.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
I'll just start logistical. Yes, get yourself some pepper spray,
just so you can have a piece of mind.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Step one.

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
Why Because these comedians that you're gonna go to these
little practice spots with and open mics too, they're all
just like you are to yourself in your mind, this
come of the earth. Like comedians are salt to the grind,
we like to drink, we're loud mouths. There's going to
be times that you should prepare yourself for that. You
might be like, oh, I'm in a bruhaha, Like this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Is a lot and literally a question here that I
didn't look at that was like do you feel safe
like traveling solo or walking into certain rooms?

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Literally and not more not metaphorical safety like actual No, No,
sometimes I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Like actual safety.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
So like I would just say for for that, like
I brought friends the first time I had this, I
brought another male comedian with me the first time I
started going to tice got comfortable places. So just I
would urge you and say, like, if you're buried entry,
is you being nervous to get into that room?

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Don't let that stop.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
You pull your resources, ask for help, get into that room,
because we want and need your voice, and we want
and need your perspective as women or people in comedy.
I think that the more voices the better. And I
would just say know that your stuff isn't gonna be
for everyone. When you do start to find your groove

(01:08:21):
and your satisfaction with your material, the fans will start
to come.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Yeah, the people will follow you. The people will follow.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Your energy of being confident in yourself and your material.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
So that's me. That's great.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
All right, we're gonna wrap it up, So Sad I
am Sandrist memes on Instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
Oh and I am Stephanie spelled like Gustafani. I am
s T E f A and I are O s
E l A H.

Speaker 5 (01:08:50):
Nice got you, and I am Anna Catherine Orr and
that is two n's, two a's, one C one athrone
and then O R R okay.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
In the show notes a lot of letters going on
right now, and we are and if you want to
say it with me, we could try it. We could
try it, and we are sad gap dot podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Nice. That was it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
You can email us at Sadgap dot podcast at gmail
dot com. Visit our website, sad Gap, dash podcast dot com.
Follow us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Patreon dot com,
slash sad Gap. There's a reddit, there's discord, probably other things. Shirts,
I don't know. It's all on the link tree. We'd
love a sweet little review on Spotify or Apple.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
These gals gotta.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Do it too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
It's a rule.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
It's a rule.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
You gotta gotta help us grow, help it blossom. Thank
you so much for being here. This was such a
lovely time. Thank you really much. Thank you. I love this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Whenever you get your own podcast up and running, then
we can definitely link to it and send people that direction.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Absolutely. Women collaborating with women, that's what we're here for life,
and we're stronger together. We'll see you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Bye bye all I

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