April 10, 2025 • 24 mins
✨ Episode Summary:
In this powerful episode of Saddle Up Live, I sit down with the incredible Michele Locke—a woman who turned pain into purpose and rose through the storm with faith, grit, and a fierce dedication to self-care.
From growing up in the aftermath of her parents’ divorce to becoming a lawyer, judge, and single mother, Michele’s journey is one of strength, heartbreak, and unapologetic growth. Her story is a reminder that no one will prioritize your well-being if you don’t do it first.
We talk about:
- What it’s like to build a career while holding a broken heart
- How to recognize subtle forms of control in relationshipsWhy “No” is a holy wordAnd how self-care isn’t selfish—it’s survival
If you’re a woman who’s constantly putting others first, this episode is your wake-up call. It’s time to put yourself back on your to-do list—not someday, but now.
🧡 What You’ll Hear in This Episode:
- Michelle’s early life lessons and her mother’s unforgettable advice
- What it really takes to start over after divorce
- How to identify emotional and financial control in relationships
- The importance of self-care after a health scareA heartfelt reminder: Happiness is your job. No one else's.
💬 Quotes from Michelle:
- “Nobody will take care of your kids the way you do. Take care of YOU.”
- “Learn to say no. It’s not selfish—it’s sacred.”
- “Stop waiting for someone to come save you. It’s your turn now.”
🎧 Tune in if you’re ready to…
- Stop putting yourself last
- Break free from old patterns
- Reclaim your strength
- And live from a place of wholeness, not burnout
📩 Want personal support on your journey?
Connect with me for coaching or mediation at lesakoski.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 4 (00:00):
Listeners, I am so grateful that you're here today.
This is a special saddle up live.
I had judge and, um, litigator from Texas,Michelle Locke on doing divorce different,
and she, I just, we had the greatest chat.
I love talking to her and sheis, she does speak on the subject
(00:24):
of self-care and I thought, whata better place to talk about.
Self-care that settle up live.
So we did record a podcastepisode and it's so good.
She's got tips that are gonna help you.
Her story is, is tough, but it'sa good story to hear because it's
uplifting, um, for all of us, us g.
(00:45):
So stay tuned.
You're gonna love her.
I'm so glad you're here.
Okay.
Speaker (00:54):
Okay, so now I've kinda set the stage for this beautiful
woman sitting in front of me, thiswoman who wants to educate people.
I love that about you, Michelle,but I think what my listeners love
to hear, they love to really getto know the people on this podcast.
Could you just share, I don't thinkyou've had an easy life or an easy story.
(01:17):
can you share your authentic story so wecan get to know you a little bit better?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
First off, I don't like to think of my back.
Ground is anything moredifficult than anyone else has.
It's just my personal experience.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That being said, I'll never forget, I was in second grade
in Miss Henry's class and it wasOctober and my mom pulled us aside
on a Friday after school and saidDad wasn't coming back anymore.
I remember my mom crying afterwards and Iremember myself crying, but I also don't
remember it being some big surprise.
(01:52):
leading up to that, my parentshad a tumultuous relationship.
It was a hundred percent my dad's fault.
I remember my dad slamming my mom upagainst the wall, her begging him not
to leave because the, I guess the flavorof the week for him was sitting in a
car across the street, to pick him up.
(02:13):
I remember lots of timeswith my mom crying.
And I also remember about the sametime that she told us she was getting
divorced or the dad wasn't cominghome anymore, that, she took me by
the chin and she had me look up inher eyes and she said, Michelle, she's
like, you get an education and younever depend on a man for anything.
(02:35):
And that's because the position thatmy dad put her in was not a good one.
And that's because he wasa doctor and she wasn't.
And FYI, for those that think that you,you're a doctor's kid, so you grow up,
privileged to have some great life.
I can tell you that is ahundred percent not accurate.
In my case, it was quite the contrary.
so been pretty independent minded and.
(02:57):
driven as long as I can remember.
And I remember going back andforth between my dad's house, my
mom's house, remember hating it.
I remember coming home and my dad'shouse smelled so bad because he
had over 200 birds in his house.
And y'all, I'm not talkinglike canaries, okay?
I'm talking like full blown, like Mulan,Scarlets blue and grays, African grays.
(03:21):
I mean, every kind of bird that.
Was possible my father had.
And so like my mom would make my brotherand I trip down to our underwear as
soon as we got home on Sundays andgo shower because we smelled so bad.
I say that because I saw and lived howhorrible divorce done wrong can be, and
(03:42):
it wasn't done wrong because of my mom.
it was truly done wrong becauseI don't think my dad really.
Gave a shit, for lack of a betterword, of the effect on the children.
I think he really believed that you allare kids and deal with it, suck it up.
And that really was kind of his attitude.
And so I remember when I was about eightor nine years old, he told me that if I
(04:05):
ever became a lawyer, he would disown me.
And I was like, done.
And so really, I don't think I'veever deviated from that point forward.
of wanting to be anythingelse other than a lawyer.
and so I went to undergrad, but gotmy degree in finance because I didn't
wanna be unemployed with a history major
Speaker 3 (04:27):
mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
In case law school didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
And then I still went to law school and then graduated from law school
at 25 The traditional like big law firmroute because I think that's what I'd
always imagined I would do is go workin Dallas or Houston for a big law firm.
And I worked for the big law firmfor a while out in West Texas
and realize how miserable I was.
(04:50):
But I wanted to be in a courtroomdoing my passion, which at the time
was criminal defense and family law.
I mean, I did my first.
Contested custody case.
in law school, my third year of lawschool and at the time I had met my,
at the time husband we're now sincedivorced, but he had two little girls
and he had been a prosecutor for Ithink 10 plus years at that point.
(05:12):
And his girls were three and five.
And I remember I wasn't gonna make.
Because I met him when I was in lawschool, wasn't gonna make two little
girls lose their dad, because I thinkhe probably would've moved anywhere I
wanted to go when I graduated law school,but I wasn't gonna do that to two little
girls because I knew how much I wanteda dad in my life and my dad just wasn't.
And so I made the commitment to staythere until they graduated high school.
(05:35):
the youngest graduated.
In 2015.
And so in 2016, I left,moved to central Texas.
I left a full-time judgeship.
I was an associate, judge infamily law in West Texas, and
I've done it for about five years.
but from practicing law now for 23,I came back to Central Texas where I
went to undergrad and really startedover again with a practice and was
(05:58):
able, fortunately, to make somethingof myself pretty quickly, and I was
able to gain a judgeship back herewithin three years of me moving here.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Crazy for
Speaker 2 (06:07):
one of the smaller municipalities that are outside of Austin.
And so that's kind of where I sit today.
I am divorced.
I've got three boys.
I've got my dog and two cats.
And my boys are 21 and he's a paramedic.
The 19-year-old is stillin college, thank goodness.
And then the 9-year-old is nine,so he's still perfect 'cause
(06:27):
the hormones haven't hit yet.
I figured I got two, three moreyears left before he turns into a
teenage boy, which for about zero fun.
I mean, I've been the stepmom.
I do divorce law.
I've been the kid of divorce.
I've sat on the bench seeing divorcesfrom the judge perspective, and then
I'm back in private practice andnow I'm divorced and navigating, how
(06:48):
divorce works, from my perspective.
And so I really have seen all sides of it.
And so I don't know if that's a goodthing, bad thing or indifferent, but
it gives me a pretty unique perspectivethat I carry into my practice today.
Speaker (07:02):
Yeah, and I, you know what I mean?
I read up on you, I stalked you a littlebit, but I didn't know all of this.
I didn't know all these details.
And Michelle, I can't imagine if I were inTexas, I can't imagine anyone that I would
have different than you to represent me.
Thank you.
Because yeah, no, you have.
(07:23):
Seen it from all sides and I just, I dohave to, I just have to call out that I,
I feel so proud of how you took somethingin your life that was kind of hard.
You know, you went through hard thingsas a kid, and look at how it has led
your whole life and think of all thelives you have touched and made better.
(07:47):
Because of that.
And so, oh, I'm just like,you are my kind of people.
I love that.
And I'm so thankful.
So thankful that you'rehere sharing this story
I mean, you are a busy gal.
You've had a lot going on in your life.
I wanna talk to you about self-care today
Speaker 2 (08:01):
and
Speaker (08:02):
Yeah.
and when I here,
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'm two weeks outta surgery, so
I can absolutely talk about more thanprobably ad nauseum, quite frankly.
Speaker (08:09):
Well, and you know, I think the thing.
Sometimes I have to get hitover the head to actually start
really taking care of myself.
And I, and I had that happen, you know, inthe last year where things really change.
But right now I'm sitting in, mydaughter is finishing up her residency.
She's downstairs.
sleeping.
Well, yeah, she's sleeping.
(08:31):
'cause she's working nights.
She's got little Oliver, who's, I'mrunning back and forth to daycare because
hubby, they're, they're moving back byus, which is so awesome when she's done.
But hubby already got hisjob, so she's here all alone.
I'm like, what the hell isshe doing for self-care?
Nothing.
I mean, she's like, no, I assure you she's
Speaker 2 (08:49):
doing nothing.
Speaker (08:50):
Nothing.
I mean, she might jump on the Peloton,but I don't think that's outta self-care.
I think
Speaker 2 (08:54):
that is not what she probably needs right now.
Speaker (08:56):
no, no.
I'm gonna share this withher when she, has a moment to
listen, but not just with her.
I also for a period of time, wasa stay at home mom, you know,
before I worked as an attorney.
And by golly, that isnot easy stuff to do.
I think that was when I didnot take care of myself.
Probably that was the hardest timefor me because I felt like I had
(09:17):
to let blood because, oh, I'm home.
I have to do everything.
I, you know, I can't complain.
I don't have time for myself.
and I loved how, something that I sawthat you had talked about self-care being
as simple as getting your mammogram.
and I just had my colonoscopy,but you gotta know, honey, I don't
know if you know this about me.
They caught stage one breastcancer on me a year ago.
(09:40):
So I have been through, I mean, Iknew it was all gonna end up okay.
I didn't right at thebeginning, but I went through
surgery, chemo, and radiation.
and I'm the lucky one.
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
You are the lucky one.
Speaker (09:54):
Yeah.
And at that moment I went,holy shit, I need to rest.
I need to rest more.
And that's when a light bulb went onthat we need, joy and fun and rest.
leading into that, I wanna hearfrom you and learn from you.
I want my daughter, those highachievers, those stay at home moms.
to learn how they take care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So, funny you mentioned the breast cancer story.
My journey, and I don't think manypeople know this, my very first mammogram
when you turned 40 Found a lump.
and I was told that it was, becausethey do the B rrAD rating of, tumors for
breast cancer and before actual diagnosis.
And they had rated mine like a B rrADfour, which is basically it's cancer.
(10:40):
But they haven't gotten theconfirmation from the biopsy.
B five is it's, they know it'scancer, but it's not been confirmed.
if I recall the B rrAD scales correctly,and they rated mine at the B rrAD
four because it was, they had, itwas veins going to it and everything.
And my gynecologist said, here's,I'm gonna send you up to the, one
of the best breast cancer surgeonsin Austin set up the appointment.
(11:02):
And so I had a 2-year-old at the time.
I was like, and 40 myvery first mammogram.
Fortunately it came out to bebenign, but I still had the lump.
I had a lumpectomy to have itremoved because it had, where we
found out it had abnormal cells soit would've turned it into cancer.
And so I go back to tellingeveryone that's where I self-care
is really as simple as a mammogram.
(11:23):
Because in mine I don't have the genes.
Like I did all the genetictesting me, so me neither.
So I don't have the geneticsfor the pancreatic cancer or
the ovaries or the breasts.
But guess what?
I still had a lump and it was my 40th.
I went and they found somethingand it was terrifying.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
But that
Speaker 2 (11:39):
To figure out that I really needed to care for myself, and that's
when I woke up in October of 2020.
So during Covid, I wokeup and I couldn't move.
It was a Saturday morning and I hadsome, like, neck problems and stuff in my
shoulders and my neck, but I dealt withthat for five years and I just attributed
it to, I sit in an office, I sit in achair all day long and it's stressed.
(12:02):
I have a very, I'm a litigator.
I go to jury trials.
'cause Texas is the only state left thejudge jury trials for family law cases.
so I just figured it was stress.
My hands were going numb when I slept.
I figured it was stress and I ignoredit until I couldn't wake up and so, or
I couldn't move when I woke up, and soI sat in like a hot tub bath for two
hours that morning and barely helped.
(12:24):
I was like, well, lemme go get a massage.
Lemme go see my chiropractor.
None of that worked.
Then a week later I went to my orthopedicsurgery group 'cause they by now
treated my spine, my knees, my ankle.
And I got in and they did this.
Here's a steroid pack for five days.
If that doesn't work, call us back.
And called back, said,send me for their MRI.
And I went back for the MRI and I wasin, I was in surgery 10 days later.
(12:46):
My doctor told me I wasrisking permanent paralysis.
and had my first cervicalfusion in November of 2020.
Then I had my second cervical fusionin November of 2022, and then I had my
third cervical fusion two weeks ago.
And so, it's been, and that'sjust the tip of the iceberg.
(13:06):
I was also, for a period of time,probably around 300 pounds, I
don't really know how heavy I gotbecause I stopped weighing myself.
I think the highest I ever weighed myselfwas like 2 94, 2 96, and I just stopped.
I've now lost 110 pounds.
You look amazing.
You're beautiful.
Well, thank you.
but it's been a journey toget here and I wish that I had
(13:31):
not put everyone else first.
I put my step kids first.
I put my kids first.
I put my husband first.
I put everyone first becausethat's how I was raised is
that's what wives and moms do.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And I did it to my detriment.
And what I tell now, 'cause thisis really one of the platforms I
speak on, on the most, is no onewill be there to care for your kids
the way you care for them, period.
And so if you don't take care of yourselfand you don't get, you know, the early
(14:06):
screening exams and you don't do whatyou're supposed to do, then you're
not gonna be around for your kids.
And that's kind of really what shook me.
And that's probably the reason, that'sone of the reasons why I'm divorced, is
because we had won too many arguments andit was detrimentally affecting my health.
I mean, I, my blood pressure was sohigh in December of 20, 22, 23, 20
(14:32):
23 that I think I almost stroked out.
I, then had to go for ironinfusions 'cause my eye was anemic.
it was just my body was a wreckand my marriage was miserable.
he was probably as miserable as I was.
And then we just had, we had a fight in,I think March of 2024, and I said no more.
I was killing myself because Ithought staying for the benefit of the
(14:53):
kids was what I was supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
And it just, it was not, and it's not advice that I
would tell anyone now to follow.
I think my advice now is get outwhen you can and get out early.
Because it's only worse the kidand it's not any good for the kids.
And when you're older and get, whenyou're older and get divorced, when the
kids are older, the kids more take sides.
And not only do the kids takesides, but it's harder on the kids.
(15:20):
They don't wanna have to adjustand the parent loses out.
And then the damage thatoccurs to those kids.
Seeing parents argue, seeing their parentsin an unhappy marriage, everyone thinks,
oh, well it's better to stay together.
And I gotta tell you, I think I'mof a different belief now from
what, 'cause I thank God everyday that my parents got divorced.
Thank God.
Every day.
(15:40):
thank God they got divorced.
Thank God.
I don't think I'd be the person Iam today without my stepdad, who,
has been wonderful, wonderful tome, wonderful my brother, lifesaver,
quite frankly in so many ways.
And I am where I am today solely, well,not solely, my mom's a rockstar, but
between the two of them most instrumentalpeople for why I am where I'm in my life.
Speaker (16:03):
Well, and I think that is a.
I think that's a message.
Sorry I didn't interrupt.
No, I interrupted you.
I didn't mean to, it'shard on these calls.
We don't mean to, we're polite people.
Yeah, but I mean, I think themessage is to make this less scary
for some women out there is I.
This might actually be thebest thing for your kids.
(16:24):
And I am like a proponentof marriage, Michelle.
I have been married for 34 years.
Oh.
My husband's gonna kill me.
I can't remember if it's 33 or 34.
So I've been married a long time.
I'm a grandma.
Like now I do strength training soI can lift grand babies, you know?
I have a son who doeseverything for everyone too.
Like why is it that weput other people's needs?
(16:46):
Because if we're not here, likeyou said, then God can't use us.
We can't parent our children.
So tell me, give me a little bit.
Give the listeners a little bit ofa few tips, just a few tips on how
they can take care of themselves.
How can they change that so that they'rethinking of themselves and seeing that
is what's really gonna help their kids?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, number one, it's not selfish to think of yourself.
I mean, that's really number one.
it's not selfish.
it's, that's what you're supposed to do.
I have some people that I knownow, some other women professionals
like me that'll take a week.
Schedule instead of like going onvacation, they schedule all their
doctor's appoints in that week.
(17:27):
I think that's actually pretty damn smart.
I mean, I really do.
I mean, just get it, get it allout of the way and get it done.
That way you can just carryon with everything else.
But number one is, taking careof yourself is not selfish.
That really is number one.
The number two, I think mostuseful thing is learning the word
no and being okay with using it.
(17:49):
It is okay to say, no,I don't want to do that.
I love telling doctors no,because they're like, wait, what?
And I have told doctors no quite often.
but no, is your friend not an enemy?
And people pleasing onlymakes you miserable.
Not everyone in life is gonna like you.
(18:09):
And in fact, you're gonna have people,some people that don't like you, I have
a long list of haters and that's okay.
And it's usually the people thatI've cross examined, they don't
like me, I cross examine them.
and it's okay.
It's okay to have people not like you.
You don't need your circleof friends to be huge because
you don't take them with you.
What you leave behind is thememories that your children have,
(18:33):
that your grandchildren have.
That's what's important, and sothat's why taking care of yourself
is not selfish, because you'll bearound to help make those memories
for those children and grandchildren.
Speaker (18:46):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I thought those are the three.
Speaker (18:48):
Yeah.
Love it.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Learn how to say no.
Speaker (18:50):
And I'm not good at, no.
Especially with my children.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
yeah.
Of course not.
They're grown.
But I want people, please.
I mean, you don't wanna disappoint anyoneand learning your boundaries and learning
to say no has really been kind of.
The last few years for me,I'm not doing that anymore.
I'm not people pleasing because it got me,it, when you don't take care of yourself
and don't find happiness in what you'redoing, but are doing it for everyone else.
(19:16):
That's when depression kicks in.
That's where you find other substitutesthat immediate, like, feel better kick.
that's where I turned to food.
I don't have any doubt that foodwas an emotional support for me.
Speaker (19:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
but Now it's not even an issue anymore.
But before it was that it reallywas because I was miserable because
instead of taking care of what Ineeded to fill my cup, I was making
sure everyone else's was full.
Yep.
I was making sure my husband had thosesurprise birthday parties and the big
mo moments and you know, many surprisebirthday parties he threw for me.
(19:48):
Right.
And think about it.
Think about the people in your life andhow are they are adding to your plate.
Helping share that plate.
For example, how often areyou the one scheduling all the
appointments for your spouse?
How many times are you helpingdo X, Y, and Z for someone, but
they're not doing something for you?
If someone is adding to your platecontinuously, but not helping
(20:10):
share on that plate or that burden,then how are they benefiting you?
Speaker (20:15):
Right.
Well, and I think once you startto realize this, you realize
you are responsible for feelinghappy because you are the one
and you set up those boundaries.
it really has changed my life.
In fact, I have a really dearfriend and she kind of forgot like
a date I had to go in for that firstdiagnostic mammogram and she just
(20:36):
blew it off and I said, I need you.
I need you to care because we're friends.
It was okay.
Right?
And the old Lisa would've never done that.
She would've stuck it.
Right?
She would've not respected howI, I felt, I would've thought,
well, I shouldn't feel that way.
That's asking for too much.
Well, what the heck if I need it frommy friend, I need it from my friend.
So I love that.
(20:56):
And I love everything you'resaying about self care.
And that is, my wish is that thiscan just be a starting block for some
of those women out there to just.
Have a better life and juststart taking care of themselves.
Rest, you know, get your care.
It's not something to feel guilty about.
It's, it's so that you can doyour work and your calling and,
(21:20):
and you know, whatever that is.
So, I love that so much.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
it is hard for us to, women embrace, especially moms
because we give, give, give, and give.
But I gotta tell you, and this iskinda the journey that I've been on,
is happiness, is you are 100% correct.
It is your own duty tofind your own happiness.
No one's gonna give it to you.
No one's gonna make you happy.
And if you're depending on those thingsfor happiness, you'll never be happy.
(21:47):
Right.
Like, it's not the cars, it'snot the David your room jewelry,
which is my happy place.
but it's, those things don't,it's, it's an immediate, it's an
immediate high, but at the end ofthe day when you're laying in bed,
that's not what's making you happy.
Speaker (22:03):
Right.
And that's such a great point.
It's a great place to pause and end.
And thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
Listeners, I am so grateful that you're here today.
This is a special saddle up live.
I had judge and, um, litigator from Texas,Michelle Locke on doing divorce different,
and she, I just, we had the greatest chat.
I love talking to her and sheis, she does speak on the subject
(00:24):
of self-care and I thought, whata better place to talk about.
Self-care that settle up live.
So we did record a podcastepisode and it's so good.
She's got tips that are gonna help you.
Her story is, is tough, but it'sa good story to hear because it's
uplifting, um, for all of us, us g.
(00:45):
So stay tuned.
You're gonna love her.
I'm so glad you're here.
Okay.
Speaker (00:54):
Okay, so now I've kinda set the stage for this beautiful
woman sitting in front of me, thiswoman who wants to educate people.
I love that about you, Michelle,but I think what my listeners love
to hear, they love to really getto know the people on this podcast.
Could you just share, I don't thinkyou've had an easy life or an easy story.
(01:17):
can you share your authentic story so wecan get to know you a little bit better?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
First off, I don't like to think of my back.
Ground is anything moredifficult than anyone else has.
It's just my personal experience.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That being said, I'll never forget, I was in second grade
in Miss Henry's class and it wasOctober and my mom pulled us aside
on a Friday after school and saidDad wasn't coming back anymore.
I remember my mom crying afterwards and Iremember myself crying, but I also don't
remember it being some big surprise.
(01:52):
leading up to that, my parentshad a tumultuous relationship.
It was a hundred percent my dad's fault.
I remember my dad slamming my mom upagainst the wall, her begging him not
to leave because the, I guess the flavorof the week for him was sitting in a
car across the street, to pick him up.
(02:13):
I remember lots of timeswith my mom crying.
And I also remember about the sametime that she told us she was getting
divorced or the dad wasn't cominghome anymore, that, she took me by
the chin and she had me look up inher eyes and she said, Michelle, she's
like, you get an education and younever depend on a man for anything.
(02:35):
And that's because the position thatmy dad put her in was not a good one.
And that's because he wasa doctor and she wasn't.
And FYI, for those that think that you,you're a doctor's kid, so you grow up,
privileged to have some great life.
I can tell you that is ahundred percent not accurate.
In my case, it was quite the contrary.
so been pretty independent minded and.
(02:57):
driven as long as I can remember.
And I remember going back andforth between my dad's house, my
mom's house, remember hating it.
I remember coming home and my dad'shouse smelled so bad because he
had over 200 birds in his house.
And y'all, I'm not talkinglike canaries, okay?
I'm talking like full blown, like Mulan,Scarlets blue and grays, African grays.
(03:21):
I mean, every kind of bird that.
Was possible my father had.
And so like my mom would make my brotherand I trip down to our underwear as
soon as we got home on Sundays andgo shower because we smelled so bad.
I say that because I saw and lived howhorrible divorce done wrong can be, and
(03:42):
it wasn't done wrong because of my mom.
it was truly done wrong becauseI don't think my dad really.
Gave a shit, for lack of a betterword, of the effect on the children.
I think he really believed that you allare kids and deal with it, suck it up.
And that really was kind of his attitude.
And so I remember when I was about eightor nine years old, he told me that if I
(04:05):
ever became a lawyer, he would disown me.
And I was like, done.
And so really, I don't think I'veever deviated from that point forward.
of wanting to be anythingelse other than a lawyer.
and so I went to undergrad, but gotmy degree in finance because I didn't
wanna be unemployed with a history major
Speaker 3 (04:27):
mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
In case law school didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
And then I still went to law school and then graduated from law school
at 25 The traditional like big law firmroute because I think that's what I'd
always imagined I would do is go workin Dallas or Houston for a big law firm.
And I worked for the big law firmfor a while out in West Texas
and realize how miserable I was.
(04:50):
But I wanted to be in a courtroomdoing my passion, which at the time
was criminal defense and family law.
I mean, I did my first.
Contested custody case.
in law school, my third year of lawschool and at the time I had met my,
at the time husband we're now sincedivorced, but he had two little girls
and he had been a prosecutor for Ithink 10 plus years at that point.
(05:12):
And his girls were three and five.
And I remember I wasn't gonna make.
Because I met him when I was in lawschool, wasn't gonna make two little
girls lose their dad, because I thinkhe probably would've moved anywhere I
wanted to go when I graduated law school,but I wasn't gonna do that to two little
girls because I knew how much I wanteda dad in my life and my dad just wasn't.
And so I made the commitment to staythere until they graduated high school.
(05:35):
the youngest graduated.
In 2015.
And so in 2016, I left,moved to central Texas.
I left a full-time judgeship.
I was an associate, judge infamily law in West Texas, and
I've done it for about five years.
but from practicing law now for 23,I came back to Central Texas where I
went to undergrad and really startedover again with a practice and was
(05:58):
able, fortunately, to make somethingof myself pretty quickly, and I was
able to gain a judgeship back herewithin three years of me moving here.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Crazy for
Speaker 2 (06:07):
one of the smaller municipalities that are outside of Austin.
And so that's kind of where I sit today.
I am divorced.
I've got three boys.
I've got my dog and two cats.
And my boys are 21 and he's a paramedic.
The 19-year-old is stillin college, thank goodness.
And then the 9-year-old is nine,so he's still perfect 'cause
(06:27):
the hormones haven't hit yet.
I figured I got two, three moreyears left before he turns into a
teenage boy, which for about zero fun.
I mean, I've been the stepmom.
I do divorce law.
I've been the kid of divorce.
I've sat on the bench seeing divorcesfrom the judge perspective, and then
I'm back in private practice andnow I'm divorced and navigating, how
(06:48):
divorce works, from my perspective.
And so I really have seen all sides of it.
And so I don't know if that's a goodthing, bad thing or indifferent, but
it gives me a pretty unique perspectivethat I carry into my practice today.
Speaker (07:02):
Yeah, and I, you know what I mean?
I read up on you, I stalked you a littlebit, but I didn't know all of this.
I didn't know all these details.
And Michelle, I can't imagine if I were inTexas, I can't imagine anyone that I would
have different than you to represent me.
Thank you.
Because yeah, no, you have.
(07:23):
Seen it from all sides and I just, I dohave to, I just have to call out that I,
I feel so proud of how you took somethingin your life that was kind of hard.
You know, you went through hard thingsas a kid, and look at how it has led
your whole life and think of all thelives you have touched and made better.
(07:47):
Because of that.
And so, oh, I'm just like,you are my kind of people.
I love that.
And I'm so thankful.
So thankful that you'rehere sharing this story
I mean, you are a busy gal.
You've had a lot going on in your life.
I wanna talk to you about self-care today
Speaker 2 (08:01):
and
Speaker (08:02):
Yeah.
and when I here,
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'm two weeks outta surgery, so
I can absolutely talk about more thanprobably ad nauseum, quite frankly.
Speaker (08:09):
Well, and you know, I think the thing.
Sometimes I have to get hitover the head to actually start
really taking care of myself.
And I, and I had that happen, you know, inthe last year where things really change.
But right now I'm sitting in, mydaughter is finishing up her residency.
She's downstairs.
sleeping.
Well, yeah, she's sleeping.
(08:31):
'cause she's working nights.
She's got little Oliver, who's, I'mrunning back and forth to daycare because
hubby, they're, they're moving back byus, which is so awesome when she's done.
But hubby already got hisjob, so she's here all alone.
I'm like, what the hell isshe doing for self-care?
Nothing.
I mean, she's like, no, I assure you she's
Speaker 2 (08:49):
doing nothing.
Speaker (08:50):
Nothing.
I mean, she might jump on the Peloton,but I don't think that's outta self-care.
I think
Speaker 2 (08:54):
that is not what she probably needs right now.
Speaker (08:56):
no, no.
I'm gonna share this withher when she, has a moment to
listen, but not just with her.
I also for a period of time, wasa stay at home mom, you know,
before I worked as an attorney.
And by golly, that isnot easy stuff to do.
I think that was when I didnot take care of myself.
Probably that was the hardest timefor me because I felt like I had
(09:17):
to let blood because, oh, I'm home.
I have to do everything.
I, you know, I can't complain.
I don't have time for myself.
and I loved how, something that I sawthat you had talked about self-care being
as simple as getting your mammogram.
and I just had my colonoscopy,but you gotta know, honey, I don't
know if you know this about me.
They caught stage one breastcancer on me a year ago.
(09:40):
So I have been through, I mean, Iknew it was all gonna end up okay.
I didn't right at thebeginning, but I went through
surgery, chemo, and radiation.
and I'm the lucky one.
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
You are the lucky one.
Speaker (09:54):
Yeah.
And at that moment I went,holy shit, I need to rest.
I need to rest more.
And that's when a light bulb went onthat we need, joy and fun and rest.
leading into that, I wanna hearfrom you and learn from you.
I want my daughter, those highachievers, those stay at home moms.
to learn how they take care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So, funny you mentioned the breast cancer story.
My journey, and I don't think manypeople know this, my very first mammogram
when you turned 40 Found a lump.
and I was told that it was, becausethey do the B rrAD rating of, tumors for
breast cancer and before actual diagnosis.
And they had rated mine like a B rrADfour, which is basically it's cancer.
(10:40):
But they haven't gotten theconfirmation from the biopsy.
B five is it's, they know it'scancer, but it's not been confirmed.
if I recall the B rrAD scales correctly,and they rated mine at the B rrAD
four because it was, they had, itwas veins going to it and everything.
And my gynecologist said, here's,I'm gonna send you up to the, one
of the best breast cancer surgeonsin Austin set up the appointment.
(11:02):
And so I had a 2-year-old at the time.
I was like, and 40 myvery first mammogram.
Fortunately it came out to bebenign, but I still had the lump.
I had a lumpectomy to have itremoved because it had, where we
found out it had abnormal cells soit would've turned it into cancer.
And so I go back to tellingeveryone that's where I self-care
is really as simple as a mammogram.
(11:23):
Because in mine I don't have the genes.
Like I did all the genetictesting me, so me neither.
So I don't have the geneticsfor the pancreatic cancer or
the ovaries or the breasts.
But guess what?
I still had a lump and it was my 40th.
I went and they found somethingand it was terrifying.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
But that
Speaker 2 (11:39):
To figure out that I really needed to care for myself, and that's
when I woke up in October of 2020.
So during Covid, I wokeup and I couldn't move.
It was a Saturday morning and I hadsome, like, neck problems and stuff in my
shoulders and my neck, but I dealt withthat for five years and I just attributed
it to, I sit in an office, I sit in achair all day long and it's stressed.
(12:02):
I have a very, I'm a litigator.
I go to jury trials.
'cause Texas is the only state left thejudge jury trials for family law cases.
so I just figured it was stress.
My hands were going numb when I slept.
I figured it was stress and I ignoredit until I couldn't wake up and so, or
I couldn't move when I woke up, and soI sat in like a hot tub bath for two
hours that morning and barely helped.
(12:24):
I was like, well, lemme go get a massage.
Lemme go see my chiropractor.
None of that worked.
Then a week later I went to my orthopedicsurgery group 'cause they by now
treated my spine, my knees, my ankle.
And I got in and they did this.
Here's a steroid pack for five days.
If that doesn't work, call us back.
And called back, said,send me for their MRI.
And I went back for the MRI and I wasin, I was in surgery 10 days later.
(12:46):
My doctor told me I wasrisking permanent paralysis.
and had my first cervicalfusion in November of 2020.
Then I had my second cervical fusionin November of 2022, and then I had my
third cervical fusion two weeks ago.
And so, it's been, and that'sjust the tip of the iceberg.
(13:06):
I was also, for a period of time,probably around 300 pounds, I
don't really know how heavy I gotbecause I stopped weighing myself.
I think the highest I ever weighed myselfwas like 2 94, 2 96, and I just stopped.
I've now lost 110 pounds.
You look amazing.
You're beautiful.
Well, thank you.
but it's been a journey toget here and I wish that I had
(13:31):
not put everyone else first.
I put my step kids first.
I put my kids first.
I put my husband first.
I put everyone first becausethat's how I was raised is
that's what wives and moms do.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And I did it to my detriment.
And what I tell now, 'cause thisis really one of the platforms I
speak on, on the most, is no onewill be there to care for your kids
the way you care for them, period.
And so if you don't take care of yourselfand you don't get, you know, the early
(14:06):
screening exams and you don't do whatyou're supposed to do, then you're
not gonna be around for your kids.
And that's kind of really what shook me.
And that's probably the reason, that'sone of the reasons why I'm divorced, is
because we had won too many arguments andit was detrimentally affecting my health.
I mean, I, my blood pressure was sohigh in December of 20, 22, 23, 20
(14:32):
23 that I think I almost stroked out.
I, then had to go for ironinfusions 'cause my eye was anemic.
it was just my body was a wreckand my marriage was miserable.
he was probably as miserable as I was.
And then we just had, we had a fight in,I think March of 2024, and I said no more.
I was killing myself because Ithought staying for the benefit of the
(14:53):
kids was what I was supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
And it just, it was not, and it's not advice that I
would tell anyone now to follow.
I think my advice now is get outwhen you can and get out early.
Because it's only worse the kidand it's not any good for the kids.
And when you're older and get, whenyou're older and get divorced, when the
kids are older, the kids more take sides.
And not only do the kids takesides, but it's harder on the kids.
(15:20):
They don't wanna have to adjustand the parent loses out.
And then the damage thatoccurs to those kids.
Seeing parents argue, seeing their parentsin an unhappy marriage, everyone thinks,
oh, well it's better to stay together.
And I gotta tell you, I think I'mof a different belief now from
what, 'cause I thank God everyday that my parents got divorced.
Thank God.
Every day.
(15:40):
thank God they got divorced.
Thank God.
I don't think I'd be the person Iam today without my stepdad, who,
has been wonderful, wonderful tome, wonderful my brother, lifesaver,
quite frankly in so many ways.
And I am where I am today solely, well,not solely, my mom's a rockstar, but
between the two of them most instrumentalpeople for why I am where I'm in my life.
Speaker (16:03):
Well, and I think that is a.
I think that's a message.
Sorry I didn't interrupt.
No, I interrupted you.
I didn't mean to, it'shard on these calls.
We don't mean to, we're polite people.
Yeah, but I mean, I think themessage is to make this less scary
for some women out there is I.
This might actually be thebest thing for your kids.
(16:24):
And I am like a proponentof marriage, Michelle.
I have been married for 34 years.
Oh.
My husband's gonna kill me.
I can't remember if it's 33 or 34.
So I've been married a long time.
I'm a grandma.
Like now I do strength training soI can lift grand babies, you know?
I have a son who doeseverything for everyone too.
Like why is it that weput other people's needs?
(16:46):
Because if we're not here, likeyou said, then God can't use us.
We can't parent our children.
So tell me, give me a little bit.
Give the listeners a little bit ofa few tips, just a few tips on how
they can take care of themselves.
How can they change that so that they'rethinking of themselves and seeing that
is what's really gonna help their kids?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, number one, it's not selfish to think of yourself.
I mean, that's really number one.
it's not selfish.
it's, that's what you're supposed to do.
I have some people that I knownow, some other women professionals
like me that'll take a week.
Schedule instead of like going onvacation, they schedule all their
doctor's appoints in that week.
(17:27):
I think that's actually pretty damn smart.
I mean, I really do.
I mean, just get it, get it allout of the way and get it done.
That way you can just carryon with everything else.
But number one is, taking careof yourself is not selfish.
That really is number one.
The number two, I think mostuseful thing is learning the word
no and being okay with using it.
(17:49):
It is okay to say, no,I don't want to do that.
I love telling doctors no,because they're like, wait, what?
And I have told doctors no quite often.
but no, is your friend not an enemy?
And people pleasing onlymakes you miserable.
Not everyone in life is gonna like you.
(18:09):
And in fact, you're gonna have people,some people that don't like you, I have
a long list of haters and that's okay.
And it's usually the people thatI've cross examined, they don't
like me, I cross examine them.
and it's okay.
It's okay to have people not like you.
You don't need your circleof friends to be huge because
you don't take them with you.
What you leave behind is thememories that your children have,
(18:33):
that your grandchildren have.
That's what's important, and sothat's why taking care of yourself
is not selfish, because you'll bearound to help make those memories
for those children and grandchildren.
Speaker (18:46):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I thought those are the three.
Speaker (18:48):
Yeah.
Love it.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Learn how to say no.
Speaker (18:50):
And I'm not good at, no.
Especially with my children.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
yeah.
Of course not.
They're grown.
But I want people, please.
I mean, you don't wanna disappoint anyoneand learning your boundaries and learning
to say no has really been kind of.
The last few years for me,I'm not doing that anymore.
I'm not people pleasing because it got me,it, when you don't take care of yourself
and don't find happiness in what you'redoing, but are doing it for everyone else.
(19:16):
That's when depression kicks in.
That's where you find other substitutesthat immediate, like, feel better kick.
that's where I turned to food.
I don't have any doubt that foodwas an emotional support for me.
Speaker (19:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
but Now it's not even an issue anymore.
But before it was that it reallywas because I was miserable because
instead of taking care of what Ineeded to fill my cup, I was making
sure everyone else's was full.
Yep.
I was making sure my husband had thosesurprise birthday parties and the big
mo moments and you know, many surprisebirthday parties he threw for me.
(19:48):
Right.
And think about it.
Think about the people in your life andhow are they are adding to your plate.
Helping share that plate.
For example, how often areyou the one scheduling all the
appointments for your spouse?
How many times are you helpingdo X, Y, and Z for someone, but
they're not doing something for you?
If someone is adding to your platecontinuously, but not helping
(20:10):
share on that plate or that burden,then how are they benefiting you?
Speaker (20:15):
Right.
Well, and I think once you startto realize this, you realize
you are responsible for feelinghappy because you are the one
and you set up those boundaries.
it really has changed my life.
In fact, I have a really dearfriend and she kind of forgot like
a date I had to go in for that firstdiagnostic mammogram and she just
(20:36):
blew it off and I said, I need you.
I need you to care because we're friends.
It was okay.
Right?
And the old Lisa would've never done that.
She would've stuck it.
Right?
She would've not respected howI, I felt, I would've thought,
well, I shouldn't feel that way.
That's asking for too much.
Well, what the heck if I need it frommy friend, I need it from my friend.
So I love that.
(20:56):
And I love everything you'resaying about self care.
And that is, my wish is that thiscan just be a starting block for some
of those women out there to just.
Have a better life and juststart taking care of themselves.
Rest, you know, get your care.
It's not something to feel guilty about.
It's, it's so that you can doyour work and your calling and,
(21:20):
and you know, whatever that is.
So, I love that so much.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
it is hard for us to, women embrace, especially moms
because we give, give, give, and give.
But I gotta tell you, and this iskinda the journey that I've been on,
is happiness, is you are 100% correct.
It is your own duty tofind your own happiness.
No one's gonna give it to you.
No one's gonna make you happy.
And if you're depending on those thingsfor happiness, you'll never be happy.
(21:47):
Right.
Like, it's not the cars, it'snot the David your room jewelry,
which is my happy place.
but it's, those things don't,it's, it's an immediate, it's an
immediate high, but at the end ofthe day when you're laying in bed,
that's not what's making you happy.
Speaker (22:03):
Right.
And that's such a great point.
It's a great place to pause and end.
And thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.