September 22, 2025 • 27 mins
Imagine sitting under a tree in the middle of the Tanzanian bush, surrounded by Maasai elders and young warriors. They've just slaughtered a goat, and as the only woman there, I'm trying to absorb the weight of the moment. This isn't just any meeting; they are debating the future of lions in their homeland, and an elder has just asked the most direct question possible: "Do you guys want lions in Ngorongoro or not?"
In this episode, the third in our series with the incredible team at KopeLion, I take you into the field for some of the most profound experiences I’ve ever had. We start by tracking a collared lioness with a group of Maasai warriors (who were just as excited as I was to see her climb a tree!), but the real heart of this story is the community meeting I was privileged to witness.
I sit down with KopeLion co-founder, William Ole Seki, an inspiring Maasai leader who talks us through the complexities of human-wildlife coexistence. He shares the powerful story of a young warrior who was mauled by a lion but now fiercely advocates for their protection. It’s an unbelievable story of forgiveness and understanding.
We also get to meet some of the other unsung heroes of the team, like Lillian, the outreach officer changing young minds, and the mechanic who keeps the whole operation moving on some of the toughest roads in Africa!
If you enjoy the episode, would you mind giving it a quick review or rating? I love reading your comments as well!
To get in touch via social media:
Instagram: @bobbyjosafaris
Facebook: Bobby-Jo Safaris
And to explore upcoming safaris: Bobby-Jo Safaris
This is a Podvan Media production.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Safari Life with Bobby Jo, where you'll get a
front row seat to some of the most breathtaking wildlife
experiences on the planet. Bobby Jo's a wildlife
photographer and safari guide, leading photography tours to
incredible destinations like theSerengeti, Patagonia, India,
Antarctica and beyond. In this podcast, she shares
(00:21):
expert photography tips, behind the scenes stories, and insights
into Wildlife Conservation. If you'd like to learn more
about her tours and workshops, visit bobbyjoesafaris.com.
G'day Honey Badgers. It's a cheap honey badger.
Bobby Joe here, and thanks for tuning in for another episode of
(00:43):
Safari Life. With Bobby Joe.
Really glad you're enjoying it. I really.
Appreciate all your support. And for sharing the podcast and
providing feedback, I've got a massive favour to ask you if you
wouldn't mind jumping onto Spotify or Apple and giving the
podcast a rating and that will help.
Push out the podcast. To a greater audience, people
that you know, appreciate safari, travel, conservation,
wildlife photography, be great to reach a bigger audience and
(01:06):
share these wonderful safari stories with everybody.
Now, this is the third instalment of an episode all
about Coping Line, the wonderfulconservation issue that I work
with in Tanzania. And today we're going to be
sharing some stories of my time in the field.
I got to go to a very important meeting and do 2 some Maasai
elders. You're gonna meet some team
members and a very important team member and.
(01:28):
Also a Co founder. William Oliseki, who is a
wonderful Maasai man from GordonGoro.
So have a listen and please reach out to me if you've got
any questions about the work of Kopi Lyon, I'd be more than
happy to answer and if you need any information sent to you
very. Passionate about.
That organization and would loveto be able to provide as much
information to you as I can, so thanks again for listening.
(01:49):
Stay tuned for more. Exciting stories from safari
life. Morning honey Badgers myself and
Kamani have. Driven to Indutu, which is like
one of my favorite places on theplanet.
This morning and we're looking for Indaloc and he's one of the
Uljikuti coordinator is actuallywhat's in deluxe title now.
He's a field research assistant.And we haven't been able to find
(02:10):
him. There's no signal in Dutu.
We're supposed to meet him almost two hours ago and he
didn't show up so we decided to go.
Adventuring and then found. A heap of cattle walking towards
Lake and Dutu and the dust was kicking up and it's.
A really great shot. And so we pulled over to ask if
we could take the. Photo And then we met with one
of the ultra. Kutis who was with them and
sorry who's the ultra Kuti get? Isaiah.
(02:31):
And Isaiah? And his friends, they did a deal
with us we could take. A foe.
Towards them and they're. Cattle if we went and found a
line with them. And so Sia had his.
Tracking equipment and we've. Just found Gita and she's a
collared. Female from the twin.
Hills sisters pride. So she's a that's a break off
pride from Twin Hills. And we've been Bush.
Bashing, going through Bush and she's kind of, we think we
(02:51):
interrupted her maybe looking tohunt cattle.
So that's probably a good thing that we did interrupt her.
But then Isaiah's saying she might also be looking for a
mate. So she's only sitting like
maybe. 10 meters away from us, she's a little bit nervous and
staring at us. And what's her story, Kimani
Like, what's her background? So recently she has had a cub
and now she's. Now she's just moving off there.
(03:14):
We're talking about her. Yeah, so she's been off since
Lofi was separated from these females, two young Cubs and now
she has two grown up male lion. And she left the little one with
the two brothers taking care of him while she's coming around to
(03:35):
hunt. That's really smart.
Actually, we probably. Need to keep up with her I
guess. She's just left us.
And we have to keep Bush bashing.
I'm getting a real. Kick out of seeing the Messiah
here. Just so excited to see the
Lioness up close and. Without their cattle, of course.
Do you say that's a pretty? Rewarding part of your job
seeing these guys looking at wild lions close.
Definitely. They don't see the lion as an
(03:56):
enemy right now, they're just more curious than actually
wanting to harm the lion. Yeah, that's awesome.
All right, let's go find her again.
She's just left. So we just got a.
Spectacular view of Nangita, thecoloured lioness from Dutu.
And yeah, I think I'm. She's climbed a tree.
Where right? This Oh wow, she's.
Up a small Acacia tree. I love about the lines of
(04:19):
Indutu. They love.
Getting into the trees to look around and she's definitely
looking for something up there like across the scrub here, it's
really dry and thick, so gettingup the trees a really great
advantage point for her. Not.
Really. A photo opportunities.
That tree's a bit thick, but yeah, this has been really cool.
And all the. Masai guys are loving my camera
and looking at the detail in in the playback.
(04:39):
So I've just. Arrived at a very important
meeting out in the middle of theBush with the Maasai elders and
some of the younger Maasai and I'm pretty intimidated it's
they're all men and they've justslaughtered a goat under the
tree and this meeting is very important and it's a real.
Privilege that I'm. Here getting to photograph it
(05:00):
and they're also lovely to me but they're here to talk about
serious issues of lion hunting, stopping retaliation, killing,
stopping lion, you know ceremonial lion hunting and all
the sort of craziness that can happen in these areas where
people are sharing the same space as a lion.
So it's the elders basically trying to give the younger
Messiah a series talking to about.
Protecting lions and not. Killing them may be the most
(05:22):
important meeting that. I'll have ever attended.
And I won't know single word they're saying, you know?
Sometimes you're at. Work or back in your home life
and you think this meeting couldhave been in an e-mail well,
this one is definitely not the case so it's.
Gonna be really interesting. Hopefully I can grab some audio
from it and Kimani and I'll havea chat on the way home about
what was said. But yeah, I feel very privileged
but also a little bit nervous tobe here.
(05:46):
We're in the middle of nowhere, but where are we actually in
Dutu? Do you know where we are?
Yes, so this is called in depas.And depas yes.
It's in Dutu, but this is where the massacre to come to graze in
the dry season. OK, so the meeting's.
Officially started. My mind's a bit blown.
I actually have become a vegetarian the last four or five
(06:07):
months and they just slaughtereda goat and they just asked me to
photograph. A sheep before it got.
Slaughtered, and I'm very respectful of that.
And I did that. And then they're asking me to
eat the goat with them. So I ate the goat.
It's a very special occasion. But I did break my vegetarianism
today by eating a goat. Yeah.
They're all sitting around talking.
It's super special. I don't really have words for
(06:29):
it. It's amazing that they're all
getting together and talking about stopping the killing of
wild animals while sacrificing some goats and sheep.
It's incredible. And I feel like they're all
really connected. And who does this?
Like our culture is missing is something we don't necessarily
have to get together and slaughter animals and sit around
and eat meat and talk shit. But maybe we do.
Maybe mine is animal slaughtering.
(06:49):
Maybe we do need to sit around, eat food and talk shit.
But like properly talk shit, like sit here and have deep
conversations with each other, with younger people, older
people. We're so missing that in Aussie
land. Let's bring it back.
So the meetings underway and oneof the elders have just asked a
Ripper question straight up to the young Warriors and said do
(07:11):
you guys want lines in Gordon Guru or not?
Answer the question honestly. So I'm waiting to hear what they
say. Hey, I'm with a wonderful man,
the board director and Co founder of Copi Lion.
Hello William, how are you? I'm very fine baby.
How are you? Good.
First of all, thank you for letting me attend today's
meeting. That has to be one of the most
special important meetings that I've ever attended to.
(07:33):
Santa Sana welcome. And.
Just to let people know what? Was the meeting about?
This is a meeting is actually part of an integrated program of
Copi Lion. And although we have Icho Kuti
on the ground, we still need to do outreach.
And this this is part of the outreach programs where we have
a meeting of community elders and leaders together with the
(07:57):
youth. And the reason is to make the
elders understand copper lions work when it comes to talking to
the youth, to completely abandoned ritual lion hunts or
even killing lions at all for reasons of conflict, but also to
retaliate after conflict has happened.
(08:20):
And so we want the elders to be aware of what we actually talk
about when we meet the young warriors.
And so coming together is also a2 face benefit.
So the young people should know that the elders are aware of
what we actually talk to the young men about.
(08:40):
And in this way, I think we are empowering both parties.
We are empowering the elders to really understand what our work
is. And secondly, we want them to
not even become suspicious like we have a hidden agenda when it
comes to talking to their young.But then we also empower elders
(09:01):
to actually take charge of the fact that they are responsible
for the coexistence that their family owners, the people who
are actually responsible to ensure that peace is kept.
And especially in Gorongoro where you have a conservation
area where low enforcement is ever watching.
(09:21):
And then us now coming and facilitate and actually really
like put a lot of value into thefact that our human rights are
actually attached to the fact that we can coexist harmoniously
with wildlife. And I think this is not even
something we struggle with because our story of creation is
(09:42):
one that tells us the responsibility one, to be
thankful for the livestock that we keep live on, but also to the
fact that we believe that we also have a divine
responsibility to protect God's own livestock and that is the
wildlife. The wildlife have place in our
clans. There are totems, they are so
(10:05):
highly, I mean, the spiritual relationship is so deep.
There will always be someone to protect that giraffe, to protect
that elephant, to protect that lion, even an insect, even a
lizard, even a snake. And so I think this is a
foundation where I think conservation can be built on
meaningfully with value. And I think we're also now
(10:27):
realizing, and we are hearing from a meeting like this that
people are acknowledging the fact that we're working with
Copper Lion. He's giving them benefit.
One is because conflict is mitigated.
And 2nd, there's people benefiting directly, like our
employees are actually earning asalary that supports their
families, but in a way also support the wider communities
(10:48):
because we people who share resources and so those who have
will always share with those whodo not.
It was the most incredible meeting.
I mean, that's something I'll never forget.
How often do you meet the eldersand the younger guys meet?
We have now done this over the last three years and fortunately
this time we are actually increasing the number of these
(11:11):
meetings in different places. There has only been three each
year, but this year we are managing to actually make 6
meetings and that will really cover many of the places we work
in. This is probably one of the
times when we have very, very genuine but also engaging
encounters because this is a space like a meeting like this.
(11:33):
We actually ask very difficult questions.
We ask people whether they want lions to be in the environment.
And some will say we don't want lions and only for one reason,
that lions cause problems. They eat our livestock, they can
also eat us. But it is also a place where
people can really, like speak freely because we encourage them
(11:54):
to give us the journey in deep reflective feedback of how they
feel. And yet we hear both sides of
the story, some who say, yes, wewe would always want the lions
to be because they're important for us.
They're our livestock, they're our lions.
And I think that idea of owning the conservation of wildlife,
(12:18):
the coexistence is actually growing very strong.
We hear that. And you don't even have to tell
people anything about it. They speak about it very freely.
And so I think it is meetings that give us the feedback we
need to be able to adjust to what people feel, how they
coexist, what challenges. And yet one nice story is they
(12:39):
tell about lower coexistence. Kamani said one of the first
questions asked was, do you wantlions in Gordon Goro?
What was the response from people?
The response is if our forefathers wanted them, what
reason do we have not want them now?
And we must accept that we have to live together.
Yet some people would say if only for the reason that the
(13:00):
lions would not eat us, then we will want them.
But because they are also aggressive, they are lion.
But that is also, like they say now as compared to before, we
are quite comfortable because wenow have the means and ways to
actually live with lions better than it used to be with the
coloring of lions, with the presence of, you know, a
(13:23):
chokuti. I think we have chosen to
actually cooperate because the happy thing is, who do we blame
if it is US who are doing it, ifit is US who are actually
securing the lands and yet securing our livestock and
ourselves? I think they're saying, yeah,
what we need is to actually get united around that purpose.
(13:45):
Let live. Let us live.
And I think that is what we hearin meetings like this.
Well, you speak so beautifully. I mean, you speak multiple
languages, but your English is so fantastic and you were kind
enough today to involve me in the meeting and tell me what was
happening. And one of the younger men, he
had a line injury. When I first pull arrived in the
car, he greeted me and put his hand out.
(14:06):
I noticed he was missing most ofhis fingers.
And he shared his story today. Can you relay that story?
What had happened? Yes, he said as a young man, and
probably like he said in the group that went for a lion hunt
that day, he felt he was the most brave guy, the most strong,
indeed, a guy who can stand his ground.
And he did send his ground. Now, what happened is that when
(14:28):
they came to these 12 lions, the11 lions ran away, but this one
stood his ground as well. And so this was like he said, I
enjoyed it because I knew I was going now to show who I am.
And yes, because he was left alone, the others ran away.
He actually confronted the lion,but then he he realized that he
was losing the battle. And so he decided to stop being
(14:52):
aggressive and let the lion realized that he was not
fighting him. He said, I was willing to say to
the lion, you won. However, he said I was only
really finding a way to make a very strong blow to the lion by
using my sword. And eventually he said, one of
my fellows came and he chased the lion away.
(15:14):
The second time actually he he was actually now telling people
to live a lion that had caused conflict.
And when the people went and thelion also ran away, the lion ran
and his livestock were going to that direction.
And he did not know. He said, I was sitting and all I
could hear was the closeness of the lion running after me.
(15:34):
And he said I stood up and it was too late to run away from
the lion. So I said I got attacked.
But the story is he says, no, there's no value in actually
going after lions. He said if you look for trouble,
indeed, you will get it. Lions are also strong.
They're fierce. They are brave and so you cannot
(15:55):
avoid getting hurt. It's either you or a lion.
I can't believe he was standing there telling me story and still
so supportive of living with lions.
I mean, that's quite incredible.I, I don't expect anyone to be
OK living with lions if they've been attacked.
But you know, that's every time I met him.
I just really like feel it very deeply because I remember when I
was young, I was a warrior doingschool, but always came back
(16:18):
during the holidays. And I really, one of the things
I wanted to happen in my holidays was going to lion
hunts. And we actually, I participated
in many. I lived in a manata where we
actually killed 33 lions. Wow.
And I remember of a case where one of our fellows really got
hurt badly by a lion we found early in the morning and we was
(16:40):
fighting it. We lost it because even though
we killed a lion, but we never celebrated it because one of us
got badly hurt. It was even a coincidence
because we carried him to the road not expecting to have like
any kind of help. But God brought the hell because
there was a car coming, a mission car came and it was
going to the hospital. So this guy was brought to the
hospital. And today that guy is actually
(17:03):
one of the outstanding lion advocate, although he misses 2
rips from his left side and thathe was fiercely attacked that
day. But I think people eventually
get to realize that they would not be hurt if they didn't go
after them if they. Didn't pursue conflict.
And so that always reminds me ofwhat the Hadzab said to me in
(17:25):
one of the places work that is they said we are hunter
gatherers. And he said if you don't go
after the lions, they will not come after you.
And I think that is common to all wildlife.
As long as you provide space, then they will also can, you
know, like always, you know, avoid conflict.
And I think that really becomes a very important lesson I
(17:49):
learned from the Hadza people. I learned it also.
Now when I hear the mass, I say if you don't fight the lions,
they will not fight. And in Gorongoro, maybe lions
will not go after people if theygot enough wildlife and think
they do. Yeah.
Well, thank you very much for today.
And it's such a pleasure to meetyou.
You're a true inspiration. Thank you for all the work that
(18:09):
you do for not only the lions, but it's the people, the work
you do for the communities and the people.
The bigger picture is that people and wildlife have to live
peacefully together. Thank you very much for that.
You do. Beautiful.
Thank you very much. And thank you, too, for the work
you do for us, the help and without much pay, after all.
And I think this is really also very unique secret.
(18:32):
I don't do it for the money. Yes.
I do it because I love it. Yes.
Let's do it together. We have the responsibility.
Shingling William. It's yeah.
If our generations come and findthe beauty, they enjoy me.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. I have the lovely Lillian with
me. Hello, Lillian.
And I've known Lillian since 2018.
(18:53):
Yes. Yeah, and you've had many roles.
What is your work? My role in Coppola now is admin
and the outreach officer. What does that mean, being an
outreach officer? It was a new role to me, but I'm
happy to learn, keeping learning.
But almost of time I'm using with kids in schools, teaching
them about your wildlife and also environment.
(19:14):
Do you really enjoy it? Yeah.
Being with children. Sure.
I'm not sure if I told you the other day I got to photograph
you with the kids. And you change like when you
walk into that room because you are you are naturally shy.
Like you can be quiet and shy, but when you walk into that
room, you become like this confident, amazing.
Like you're just so good with the kids.
And it's really great to see. Yeah.
(19:36):
I can see how much you love it. Yeah.
What is the favorite part of your job?
Is it connecting with children? Yeah, I really to the new things
to me, but I was really happy toteach them about the environment
and also wildlife. Many time when I visit them, I
see their cooperation with me, how they understand what I have
teach them. So that is something that make
(19:58):
me happy. How many?
Schools Do you visit in morning?Guru 88 What's the furthest
school from the The office is like above the crater.
Near the gate. But what is the furthest school
that you visit? Yeah, their further school.
It was in Orpiro. OK.
It was really far from from herebecause I saw you at Endolin 2
days ago and then you had to stay overnight so that you visit
(20:19):
that school. Yeah, so that they can be there
in the morning. Do you have to walk?
Yeah, there is a lot of stone soyou can't drive down there.
OK. How long does it take you to
walk with all your equipment? For yesterday we it took us 30
minutes to go down. To go down, yes.
Almost one hour to come up. And Joshua helped you take all
the. Yeah.
(20:39):
And you have children of your own now?
Yeah, I have two children. Yeah.
When I met you, I think you wereengaged or you're about to be
married and you didn't have kids.
And then I've watched you get married and he looks.
He was so beautiful at your wedding.
So it's a lovely friendship thatI have with you.
Where did you grow up? In Gorongoro.
I grew up in Gorongoro. The place called Malanga.
(20:59):
Malunga Depression. Yes.
I think we've been talking aboutMalunga a lot this week and
spent a lot of time there. And I remember you telling me a
story. But I'd love to let the honey
Badgers know that when you were younger, you used to graze your
livestock in the crater. Yes.
Yeah. I did the one trip in the crater
with my brother. Yeah.
But I was really tired. They were hungry.
(21:20):
So. But I finally reaching the
crater on foot. What were you grazing?
Cattle? Yeah.
Yeah. Was it scary?
Because it would have been a lotlike.
There's so many lines in the crater.
Yeah. To scare, but I was really like
to go with kettle because they are not going too fast.
Yeah, that's hard. Yeah.
To come up to to the to home. What do you hope for the future?
(21:42):
Like what would you like to see happen in the future even with
your own children? Like do you plan on staying in
this part of the world in Gorongoro or what?
What is your future plans? Oh, my future plans is to also
continue staying here in Gorongoro and also teaching my
community about the importance of wildlife and also the
environment. Yeah.
Wow, that's amazing. And very inspiring and shout out
(22:03):
to your Mama, who actually made a lot of Shanga for me that are
on my walls that some people have seen.
So your mum is very clever. I love our friendship.
Thank you, Lillian, for everything that you do for Kobe
Lyon. Thank you, buddy.
Joe. So I'm with Joshua.
Hello, Joshua. Hello, Bob.
Joe. And Joshua, is the mechanic a
very important role for Copy Line and how long have you been
working for Copy Line for? I have now one year.
(22:26):
One year, yeah, but how long have you been a mechanic for?
I have a long time for working mechanics for the different
place. Where did you learn mechanics?
I learned in mechanics at RussiaTechnic college.
OK, being a mechanic for copy line is I'm not sure if you
realise it's a very important job.
Yeah, because the vehicles. Really are hard going.
Yesterday I was in the vehicle and we were like going over
(22:47):
rocks and through bushes. And is it challenging to fix
some of these vehicles? Sometimes, yeah.
I get a big challenge for the Land Rover.
That was my next question. Do you prefer Land Rover or Land
Cruiser? Oh Land Rover, they get many
problem more than Land Cruiser. OK, but I hear that Land Rovers
are easier to drive, like in theBush.
Yeah. But actually very easy, OK,
(23:07):
because that's 4 wheel drive allthe time.
Yeah. And short wheelbase, is that
why? Yeah.
Land Rover. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This week we had some 2 has comethrough and they had did they
snap their shock absorber in their vehicle?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you fix that for them.
Fix. Yeah, just out of the goodness
of your heart. A fix in Land Rover and Land
Closer this week. Yeah, OK.
Yeah. So that's really kind of you to
fix the guests that are driving through and how did they break?
(23:29):
Was it on the roads? Yeah, while I see the no
suspicion again, good suspicion,yeah, that I would change it.
Yeah, the suspensions has to be so good here because the roads
are so bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We our number plate fell off yesterday.
Yeah, when we were driving, running along the road, it was
that bad. Yeah.
And sometimes I've noticed that you are not doing mechanics,
(23:50):
that you're going with Lillian and you've been out with me.
So you must really enjoy that. Yeah, and we enjoy because I'm
mechanics also, and then I'm a driver.
So when I get a chance for work more than mechanics, I'm go for
field. Yeah, or around the school.
When you started driving, being sometimes doing the driving,
Yeah. Were you shocked at how much you
(24:12):
have to drive off road? Yeah, like you were a bit like,
wow, this is Kumbe. This is yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is serious. Yeah, so the way when I I drive
the car by the different place, I see the problem.
Yeah, you see go some mechanics.When I drive the car in a in a
place, I see there is something wrong.
Yeah. I'm not sure if you remember
when you drove me down to Aseri.Yeah.
And we went into an aardvark hole.
(24:34):
Do you remember that? Yeah, we got stuck in a.
Stuck somewhere? We went into a big aardvark hole
and we had to go and get rocks and you had like a metal ladder,
like a recovery ladder to pop under the tire, under the wheel.
Do you enjoy going to the schools with the children?
Yeah. I enjoy well because I'm the
person who like to learn. Yeah.
So when I go to the visit school, then I see student, then
(24:56):
we talk about the lion, about the school environment and then
we teach children also. Yeah, so you're much more than a
mechanic. You're a good team player.
You're a driver. You're also becoming like an out
officer, like with Lillian and yeah, yeah.
What would you like to see happen in the future?
Yeah, my future learning. I think after maybe when I get a
(25:17):
chance for the Copper Lion, I'm going to continue to get a
school more. Yep, when I get the trouble for
the electrical system with the car, then I'm go the short
course of all the mechanics about the electrical system.
This week I've spoken to outreach officers, directors,
cofounders, elders, and now mechanic.
(25:37):
There's so many amazing people here in different roles, and I
want to thank you for all your dedication and your hard work
for Copy Line. Yeah, yeah.
It's a real pleasure to know you.
Thank you. Hey honey Badgers, I really hope
you. Enjoyed that episode, learning
all about the work of copy line,meeting team members, listening
to important mass eye conversations.
It's confronting work, it's rewarding work.
(25:59):
It's incredible to be part of that team.
I'm so honored and proud and I'mreally happy I get to share the
stories with you and promote their work.
Don't forget that if you'd like.To help copy line, they need
money, they need funding to be able to pay salaries, operate
vehicles. Do help assist.
In Gurgaon Grove line research they need so you can make a
(26:19):
donation to copeline.org Doesn'thave to be a big donation.
Every small amount of funding helps.
It's. Part of a bigger picture so you
can head to. Copeline.org to make a donation.
There's a link there. For PayPal, so jump on now.
And yeah, if you if you've got even a dollar to spare, it'd
make the world of difference to that incredible team that are
working in that complicated landscape.
(26:40):
Now I may be back with Copeline next February when I'm back in
East Africa, in Tanzania and I'll be capturing a lot of new.
Fresh content for them, but. Also reporting in the field and
getting some more podcasts for you guys to listen to.
So massive thanks for Coping Line for their patience in all
my interviews and for having me as usual.
Thanks so much for listening guys.
Really appreciate you lending your ear to the podcast and
(27:03):
being so passionate about all the stories and I can't wait to
be interviewing you one day Or. Hosting you on.
Safari and I'm going to be running a wine conservation trip
next year, in 2026, in August, and it's going.
To be visiting Goronguru. And also Kogatende to see the
wildebeest in action. And a big part of that trip will
be spent with. Copeline and meeting the team,
(27:23):
so stay. Tuned for more?
Information on a special line conservation trip that will be
happening in 2026. Thanks for listening.
Appreciate all your. Support If you enjoyed this
episode, be sure to hit the follow button so you never miss
an adventure. You can keep up with Bobby Jo's
wildlife photography and safari journeys on Instagram and
Facebook at Bobby Jo Safaris. And if you'd love to join one of
(27:43):
her photography tours or workshops, you can find all the
details at Bobby Joseph safaris.com.
Welcome to Safari Life with Bobby Jo, where you'll get a
front row seat to some of the most breathtaking wildlife
experiences on the planet. Bobby Jo's a wildlife
photographer and safari guide, leading photography tours to
incredible destinations like theSerengeti, Patagonia, India,
Antarctica and beyond. In this podcast, she shares
(00:21):
expert photography tips, behind the scenes stories, and insights
into Wildlife Conservation. If you'd like to learn more
about her tours and workshops, visit bobbyjoesafaris.com.
G'day Honey Badgers. It's a cheap honey badger.
Bobby Joe here, and thanks for tuning in for another episode of
(00:43):
Safari Life. With Bobby Joe.
Really glad you're enjoying it. I really.
Appreciate all your support. And for sharing the podcast and
providing feedback, I've got a massive favour to ask you if you
wouldn't mind jumping onto Spotify or Apple and giving the
podcast a rating and that will help.
Push out the podcast. To a greater audience, people
that you know, appreciate safari, travel, conservation,
wildlife photography, be great to reach a bigger audience and
(01:06):
share these wonderful safari stories with everybody.
Now, this is the third instalment of an episode all
about Coping Line, the wonderfulconservation issue that I work
with in Tanzania. And today we're going to be
sharing some stories of my time in the field.
I got to go to a very important meeting and do 2 some Maasai
elders. You're gonna meet some team
members and a very important team member and.
(01:28):
Also a Co founder. William Oliseki, who is a
wonderful Maasai man from GordonGoro.
So have a listen and please reach out to me if you've got
any questions about the work of Kopi Lyon, I'd be more than
happy to answer and if you need any information sent to you
very. Passionate about.
That organization and would loveto be able to provide as much
information to you as I can, so thanks again for listening.
(01:49):
Stay tuned for more. Exciting stories from safari
life. Morning honey Badgers myself and
Kamani have. Driven to Indutu, which is like
one of my favorite places on theplanet.
This morning and we're looking for Indaloc and he's one of the
Uljikuti coordinator is actuallywhat's in deluxe title now.
He's a field research assistant.And we haven't been able to find
(02:10):
him. There's no signal in Dutu.
We're supposed to meet him almost two hours ago and he
didn't show up so we decided to go.
Adventuring and then found. A heap of cattle walking towards
Lake and Dutu and the dust was kicking up and it's.
A really great shot. And so we pulled over to ask if
we could take the. Photo And then we met with one
of the ultra. Kutis who was with them and
sorry who's the ultra Kuti get? Isaiah.
(02:31):
And Isaiah? And his friends, they did a deal
with us we could take. A foe.
Towards them and they're. Cattle if we went and found a
line with them. And so Sia had his.
Tracking equipment and we've. Just found Gita and she's a
collared. Female from the twin.
Hills sisters pride. So she's a that's a break off
pride from Twin Hills. And we've been Bush.
Bashing, going through Bush and she's kind of, we think we
(02:51):
interrupted her maybe looking tohunt cattle.
So that's probably a good thing that we did interrupt her.
But then Isaiah's saying she might also be looking for a
mate. So she's only sitting like
maybe. 10 meters away from us, she's a little bit nervous and
staring at us. And what's her story, Kimani
Like, what's her background? So recently she has had a cub
and now she's. Now she's just moving off there.
(03:14):
We're talking about her. Yeah, so she's been off since
Lofi was separated from these females, two young Cubs and now
she has two grown up male lion. And she left the little one with
the two brothers taking care of him while she's coming around to
(03:35):
hunt. That's really smart.
Actually, we probably. Need to keep up with her I
guess. She's just left us.
And we have to keep Bush bashing.
I'm getting a real. Kick out of seeing the Messiah
here. Just so excited to see the
Lioness up close and. Without their cattle, of course.
Do you say that's a pretty? Rewarding part of your job
seeing these guys looking at wild lions close.
Definitely. They don't see the lion as an
(03:56):
enemy right now, they're just more curious than actually
wanting to harm the lion. Yeah, that's awesome.
All right, let's go find her again.
She's just left. So we just got a.
Spectacular view of Nangita, thecoloured lioness from Dutu.
And yeah, I think I'm. She's climbed a tree.
Where right? This Oh wow, she's.
Up a small Acacia tree. I love about the lines of
(04:19):
Indutu. They love.
Getting into the trees to look around and she's definitely
looking for something up there like across the scrub here, it's
really dry and thick, so gettingup the trees a really great
advantage point for her. Not.
Really. A photo opportunities.
That tree's a bit thick, but yeah, this has been really cool.
And all the. Masai guys are loving my camera
and looking at the detail in in the playback.
(04:39):
So I've just. Arrived at a very important
meeting out in the middle of theBush with the Maasai elders and
some of the younger Maasai and I'm pretty intimidated it's
they're all men and they've justslaughtered a goat under the
tree and this meeting is very important and it's a real.
Privilege that I'm. Here getting to photograph it
(05:00):
and they're also lovely to me but they're here to talk about
serious issues of lion hunting, stopping retaliation, killing,
stopping lion, you know ceremonial lion hunting and all
the sort of craziness that can happen in these areas where
people are sharing the same space as a lion.
So it's the elders basically trying to give the younger
Messiah a series talking to about.
Protecting lions and not. Killing them may be the most
(05:22):
important meeting that. I'll have ever attended.
And I won't know single word they're saying, you know?
Sometimes you're at. Work or back in your home life
and you think this meeting couldhave been in an e-mail well,
this one is definitely not the case so it's.
Gonna be really interesting. Hopefully I can grab some audio
from it and Kimani and I'll havea chat on the way home about
what was said. But yeah, I feel very privileged
but also a little bit nervous tobe here.
(05:46):
We're in the middle of nowhere, but where are we actually in
Dutu? Do you know where we are?
Yes, so this is called in depas.And depas yes.
It's in Dutu, but this is where the massacre to come to graze in
the dry season. OK, so the meeting's.
Officially started. My mind's a bit blown.
I actually have become a vegetarian the last four or five
(06:07):
months and they just slaughtereda goat and they just asked me to
photograph. A sheep before it got.
Slaughtered, and I'm very respectful of that.
And I did that. And then they're asking me to
eat the goat with them. So I ate the goat.
It's a very special occasion. But I did break my vegetarianism
today by eating a goat. Yeah.
They're all sitting around talking.
It's super special. I don't really have words for
(06:29):
it. It's amazing that they're all
getting together and talking about stopping the killing of
wild animals while sacrificing some goats and sheep.
It's incredible. And I feel like they're all
really connected. And who does this?
Like our culture is missing is something we don't necessarily
have to get together and slaughter animals and sit around
and eat meat and talk shit. But maybe we do.
Maybe mine is animal slaughtering.
(06:49):
Maybe we do need to sit around, eat food and talk shit.
But like properly talk shit, like sit here and have deep
conversations with each other, with younger people, older
people. We're so missing that in Aussie
land. Let's bring it back.
So the meetings underway and oneof the elders have just asked a
Ripper question straight up to the young Warriors and said do
(07:11):
you guys want lines in Gordon Guru or not?
Answer the question honestly. So I'm waiting to hear what they
say. Hey, I'm with a wonderful man,
the board director and Co founder of Copi Lion.
Hello William, how are you? I'm very fine baby.
How are you? Good.
First of all, thank you for letting me attend today's
meeting. That has to be one of the most
special important meetings that I've ever attended to.
(07:33):
Santa Sana welcome. And.
Just to let people know what? Was the meeting about?
This is a meeting is actually part of an integrated program of
Copi Lion. And although we have Icho Kuti
on the ground, we still need to do outreach.
And this this is part of the outreach programs where we have
a meeting of community elders and leaders together with the
(07:57):
youth. And the reason is to make the
elders understand copper lions work when it comes to talking to
the youth, to completely abandoned ritual lion hunts or
even killing lions at all for reasons of conflict, but also to
retaliate after conflict has happened.
(08:20):
And so we want the elders to be aware of what we actually talk
about when we meet the young warriors.
And so coming together is also a2 face benefit.
So the young people should know that the elders are aware of
what we actually talk to the young men about.
(08:40):
And in this way, I think we are empowering both parties.
We are empowering the elders to really understand what our work
is. And secondly, we want them to
not even become suspicious like we have a hidden agenda when it
comes to talking to their young.But then we also empower elders
(09:01):
to actually take charge of the fact that they are responsible
for the coexistence that their family owners, the people who
are actually responsible to ensure that peace is kept.
And especially in Gorongoro where you have a conservation
area where low enforcement is ever watching.
(09:21):
And then us now coming and facilitate and actually really
like put a lot of value into thefact that our human rights are
actually attached to the fact that we can coexist harmoniously
with wildlife. And I think this is not even
something we struggle with because our story of creation is
(09:42):
one that tells us the responsibility one, to be
thankful for the livestock that we keep live on, but also to the
fact that we believe that we also have a divine
responsibility to protect God's own livestock and that is the
wildlife. The wildlife have place in our
clans. There are totems, they are so
(10:05):
highly, I mean, the spiritual relationship is so deep.
There will always be someone to protect that giraffe, to protect
that elephant, to protect that lion, even an insect, even a
lizard, even a snake. And so I think this is a
foundation where I think conservation can be built on
meaningfully with value. And I think we're also now
(10:27):
realizing, and we are hearing from a meeting like this that
people are acknowledging the fact that we're working with
Copper Lion. He's giving them benefit.
One is because conflict is mitigated.
And 2nd, there's people benefiting directly, like our
employees are actually earning asalary that supports their
families, but in a way also support the wider communities
(10:48):
because we people who share resources and so those who have
will always share with those whodo not.
It was the most incredible meeting.
I mean, that's something I'll never forget.
How often do you meet the eldersand the younger guys meet?
We have now done this over the last three years and fortunately
this time we are actually increasing the number of these
(11:11):
meetings in different places. There has only been three each
year, but this year we are managing to actually make 6
meetings and that will really cover many of the places we work
in. This is probably one of the
times when we have very, very genuine but also engaging
encounters because this is a space like a meeting like this.
(11:33):
We actually ask very difficult questions.
We ask people whether they want lions to be in the environment.
And some will say we don't want lions and only for one reason,
that lions cause problems. They eat our livestock, they can
also eat us. But it is also a place where
people can really, like speak freely because we encourage them
(11:54):
to give us the journey in deep reflective feedback of how they
feel. And yet we hear both sides of
the story, some who say, yes, wewe would always want the lions
to be because they're important for us.
They're our livestock, they're our lions.
And I think that idea of owning the conservation of wildlife,
(12:18):
the coexistence is actually growing very strong.
We hear that. And you don't even have to tell
people anything about it. They speak about it very freely.
And so I think it is meetings that give us the feedback we
need to be able to adjust to what people feel, how they
coexist, what challenges. And yet one nice story is they
(12:39):
tell about lower coexistence. Kamani said one of the first
questions asked was, do you wantlions in Gordon Goro?
What was the response from people?
The response is if our forefathers wanted them, what
reason do we have not want them now?
And we must accept that we have to live together.
Yet some people would say if only for the reason that the
(13:00):
lions would not eat us, then we will want them.
But because they are also aggressive, they are lion.
But that is also, like they say now as compared to before, we
are quite comfortable because wenow have the means and ways to
actually live with lions better than it used to be with the
coloring of lions, with the presence of, you know, a
(13:23):
chokuti. I think we have chosen to
actually cooperate because the happy thing is, who do we blame
if it is US who are doing it, ifit is US who are actually
securing the lands and yet securing our livestock and
ourselves? I think they're saying, yeah,
what we need is to actually get united around that purpose.
(13:45):
Let live. Let us live.
And I think that is what we hearin meetings like this.
Well, you speak so beautifully. I mean, you speak multiple
languages, but your English is so fantastic and you were kind
enough today to involve me in the meeting and tell me what was
happening. And one of the younger men, he
had a line injury. When I first pull arrived in the
car, he greeted me and put his hand out.
(14:06):
I noticed he was missing most ofhis fingers.
And he shared his story today. Can you relay that story?
What had happened? Yes, he said as a young man, and
probably like he said in the group that went for a lion hunt
that day, he felt he was the most brave guy, the most strong,
indeed, a guy who can stand his ground.
And he did send his ground. Now, what happened is that when
(14:28):
they came to these 12 lions, the11 lions ran away, but this one
stood his ground as well. And so this was like he said, I
enjoyed it because I knew I was going now to show who I am.
And yes, because he was left alone, the others ran away.
He actually confronted the lion,but then he he realized that he
was losing the battle. And so he decided to stop being
(14:52):
aggressive and let the lion realized that he was not
fighting him. He said, I was willing to say to
the lion, you won. However, he said I was only
really finding a way to make a very strong blow to the lion by
using my sword. And eventually he said, one of
my fellows came and he chased the lion away.
(15:14):
The second time actually he he was actually now telling people
to live a lion that had caused conflict.
And when the people went and thelion also ran away, the lion ran
and his livestock were going to that direction.
And he did not know. He said, I was sitting and all I
could hear was the closeness of the lion running after me.
(15:34):
And he said I stood up and it was too late to run away from
the lion. So I said I got attacked.
But the story is he says, no, there's no value in actually
going after lions. He said if you look for trouble,
indeed, you will get it. Lions are also strong.
They're fierce. They are brave and so you cannot
(15:55):
avoid getting hurt. It's either you or a lion.
I can't believe he was standing there telling me story and still
so supportive of living with lions.
I mean, that's quite incredible.I, I don't expect anyone to be
OK living with lions if they've been attacked.
But you know, that's every time I met him.
I just really like feel it very deeply because I remember when I
was young, I was a warrior doingschool, but always came back
(16:18):
during the holidays. And I really, one of the things
I wanted to happen in my holidays was going to lion
hunts. And we actually, I participated
in many. I lived in a manata where we
actually killed 33 lions. Wow.
And I remember of a case where one of our fellows really got
hurt badly by a lion we found early in the morning and we was
(16:40):
fighting it. We lost it because even though
we killed a lion, but we never celebrated it because one of us
got badly hurt. It was even a coincidence
because we carried him to the road not expecting to have like
any kind of help. But God brought the hell because
there was a car coming, a mission car came and it was
going to the hospital. So this guy was brought to the
hospital. And today that guy is actually
(17:03):
one of the outstanding lion advocate, although he misses 2
rips from his left side and thathe was fiercely attacked that
day. But I think people eventually
get to realize that they would not be hurt if they didn't go
after them if they. Didn't pursue conflict.
And so that always reminds me ofwhat the Hadzab said to me in
(17:25):
one of the places work that is they said we are hunter
gatherers. And he said if you don't go
after the lions, they will not come after you.
And I think that is common to all wildlife.
As long as you provide space, then they will also can, you
know, like always, you know, avoid conflict.
And I think that really becomes a very important lesson I
(17:49):
learned from the Hadza people. I learned it also.
Now when I hear the mass, I say if you don't fight the lions,
they will not fight. And in Gorongoro, maybe lions
will not go after people if theygot enough wildlife and think
they do. Yeah.
Well, thank you very much for today.
And it's such a pleasure to meetyou.
You're a true inspiration. Thank you for all the work that
(18:09):
you do for not only the lions, but it's the people, the work
you do for the communities and the people.
The bigger picture is that people and wildlife have to live
peacefully together. Thank you very much for that.
You do. Beautiful.
Thank you very much. And thank you, too, for the work
you do for us, the help and without much pay, after all.
And I think this is really also very unique secret.
(18:32):
I don't do it for the money. Yes.
I do it because I love it. Yes.
Let's do it together. We have the responsibility.
Shingling William. It's yeah.
If our generations come and findthe beauty, they enjoy me.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. I have the lovely Lillian with
me. Hello, Lillian.
And I've known Lillian since 2018.
(18:53):
Yes. Yeah, and you've had many roles.
What is your work? My role in Coppola now is admin
and the outreach officer. What does that mean, being an
outreach officer? It was a new role to me, but I'm
happy to learn, keeping learning.
But almost of time I'm using with kids in schools, teaching
them about your wildlife and also environment.
(19:14):
Do you really enjoy it? Yeah.
Being with children. Sure.
I'm not sure if I told you the other day I got to photograph
you with the kids. And you change like when you
walk into that room because you are you are naturally shy.
Like you can be quiet and shy, but when you walk into that
room, you become like this confident, amazing.
Like you're just so good with the kids.
And it's really great to see. Yeah.
(19:36):
I can see how much you love it. Yeah.
What is the favorite part of your job?
Is it connecting with children? Yeah, I really to the new things
to me, but I was really happy toteach them about the environment
and also wildlife. Many time when I visit them, I
see their cooperation with me, how they understand what I have
teach them. So that is something that make
(19:58):
me happy. How many?
Schools Do you visit in morning?Guru 88 What's the furthest
school from the The office is like above the crater.
Near the gate. But what is the furthest school
that you visit? Yeah, their further school.
It was in Orpiro. OK.
It was really far from from herebecause I saw you at Endolin 2
days ago and then you had to stay overnight so that you visit
(20:19):
that school. Yeah, so that they can be there
in the morning. Do you have to walk?
Yeah, there is a lot of stone soyou can't drive down there.
OK. How long does it take you to
walk with all your equipment? For yesterday we it took us 30
minutes to go down. To go down, yes.
Almost one hour to come up. And Joshua helped you take all
the. Yeah.
(20:39):
And you have children of your own now?
Yeah, I have two children. Yeah.
When I met you, I think you wereengaged or you're about to be
married and you didn't have kids.
And then I've watched you get married and he looks.
He was so beautiful at your wedding.
So it's a lovely friendship thatI have with you.
Where did you grow up? In Gorongoro.
I grew up in Gorongoro. The place called Malanga.
(20:59):
Malunga Depression. Yes.
I think we've been talking aboutMalunga a lot this week and
spent a lot of time there. And I remember you telling me a
story. But I'd love to let the honey
Badgers know that when you were younger, you used to graze your
livestock in the crater. Yes.
Yeah. I did the one trip in the crater
with my brother. Yeah.
But I was really tired. They were hungry.
(21:20):
So. But I finally reaching the
crater on foot. What were you grazing?
Cattle? Yeah.
Yeah. Was it scary?
Because it would have been a lotlike.
There's so many lines in the crater.
Yeah. To scare, but I was really like
to go with kettle because they are not going too fast.
Yeah, that's hard. Yeah.
To come up to to the to home. What do you hope for the future?
(21:42):
Like what would you like to see happen in the future even with
your own children? Like do you plan on staying in
this part of the world in Gorongoro or what?
What is your future plans? Oh, my future plans is to also
continue staying here in Gorongoro and also teaching my
community about the importance of wildlife and also the
environment. Yeah.
Wow, that's amazing. And very inspiring and shout out
(22:03):
to your Mama, who actually made a lot of Shanga for me that are
on my walls that some people have seen.
So your mum is very clever. I love our friendship.
Thank you, Lillian, for everything that you do for Kobe
Lyon. Thank you, buddy.
Joe. So I'm with Joshua.
Hello, Joshua. Hello, Bob.
Joe. And Joshua, is the mechanic a
very important role for Copy Line and how long have you been
working for Copy Line for? I have now one year.
(22:26):
One year, yeah, but how long have you been a mechanic for?
I have a long time for working mechanics for the different
place. Where did you learn mechanics?
I learned in mechanics at RussiaTechnic college.
OK, being a mechanic for copy line is I'm not sure if you
realise it's a very important job.
Yeah, because the vehicles. Really are hard going.
Yesterday I was in the vehicle and we were like going over
(22:47):
rocks and through bushes. And is it challenging to fix
some of these vehicles? Sometimes, yeah.
I get a big challenge for the Land Rover.
That was my next question. Do you prefer Land Rover or Land
Cruiser? Oh Land Rover, they get many
problem more than Land Cruiser. OK, but I hear that Land Rovers
are easier to drive, like in theBush.
Yeah. But actually very easy, OK,
(23:07):
because that's 4 wheel drive allthe time.
Yeah. And short wheelbase, is that
why? Yeah.
Land Rover. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This week we had some 2 has comethrough and they had did they
snap their shock absorber in their vehicle?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you fix that for them.
Fix. Yeah, just out of the goodness
of your heart. A fix in Land Rover and Land
Closer this week. Yeah, OK.
Yeah. So that's really kind of you to
fix the guests that are driving through and how did they break?
(23:29):
Was it on the roads? Yeah, while I see the no
suspicion again, good suspicion,yeah, that I would change it.
Yeah, the suspensions has to be so good here because the roads
are so bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We our number plate fell off yesterday.
Yeah, when we were driving, running along the road, it was
that bad. Yeah.
And sometimes I've noticed that you are not doing mechanics,
(23:50):
that you're going with Lillian and you've been out with me.
So you must really enjoy that. Yeah, and we enjoy because I'm
mechanics also, and then I'm a driver.
So when I get a chance for work more than mechanics, I'm go for
field. Yeah, or around the school.
When you started driving, being sometimes doing the driving,
Yeah. Were you shocked at how much you
(24:12):
have to drive off road? Yeah, like you were a bit like,
wow, this is Kumbe. This is yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is serious. Yeah, so the way when I I drive
the car by the different place, I see the problem.
Yeah, you see go some mechanics.When I drive the car in a in a
place, I see there is something wrong.
Yeah. I'm not sure if you remember
when you drove me down to Aseri.Yeah.
And we went into an aardvark hole.
(24:34):
Do you remember that? Yeah, we got stuck in a.
Stuck somewhere? We went into a big aardvark hole
and we had to go and get rocks and you had like a metal ladder,
like a recovery ladder to pop under the tire, under the wheel.
Do you enjoy going to the schools with the children?
Yeah. I enjoy well because I'm the
person who like to learn. Yeah.
So when I go to the visit school, then I see student, then
(24:56):
we talk about the lion, about the school environment and then
we teach children also. Yeah, so you're much more than a
mechanic. You're a good team player.
You're a driver. You're also becoming like an out
officer, like with Lillian and yeah, yeah.
What would you like to see happen in the future?
Yeah, my future learning. I think after maybe when I get a
(25:17):
chance for the Copper Lion, I'm going to continue to get a
school more. Yep, when I get the trouble for
the electrical system with the car, then I'm go the short
course of all the mechanics about the electrical system.
This week I've spoken to outreach officers, directors,
cofounders, elders, and now mechanic.
(25:37):
There's so many amazing people here in different roles, and I
want to thank you for all your dedication and your hard work
for Copy Line. Yeah, yeah.
It's a real pleasure to know you.
Thank you. Hey honey Badgers, I really hope
you. Enjoyed that episode, learning
all about the work of copy line,meeting team members, listening
to important mass eye conversations.
It's confronting work, it's rewarding work.
(25:59):
It's incredible to be part of that team.
I'm so honored and proud and I'mreally happy I get to share the
stories with you and promote their work.
Don't forget that if you'd like.To help copy line, they need
money, they need funding to be able to pay salaries, operate
vehicles. Do help assist.
In Gurgaon Grove line research they need so you can make a
(26:19):
donation to copeline.org Doesn'thave to be a big donation.
Every small amount of funding helps.
It's. Part of a bigger picture so you
can head to. Copeline.org to make a donation.
There's a link there. For PayPal, so jump on now.
And yeah, if you if you've got even a dollar to spare, it'd
make the world of difference to that incredible team that are
working in that complicated landscape.
(26:40):
Now I may be back with Copeline next February when I'm back in
East Africa, in Tanzania and I'll be capturing a lot of new.
Fresh content for them, but. Also reporting in the field and
getting some more podcasts for you guys to listen to.
So massive thanks for Coping Line for their patience in all
my interviews and for having me as usual.
Thanks so much for listening guys.
Really appreciate you lending your ear to the podcast and
(27:03):
being so passionate about all the stories and I can't wait to
be interviewing you one day Or. Hosting you on.
Safari and I'm going to be running a wine conservation trip
next year, in 2026, in August, and it's going.
To be visiting Goronguru. And also Kogatende to see the
wildebeest in action. And a big part of that trip will
be spent with. Copeline and meeting the team,
(27:23):
so stay. Tuned for more?
Information on a special line conservation trip that will be
happening in 2026. Thanks for listening.
Appreciate all your. Support If you enjoyed this
episode, be sure to hit the follow button so you never miss
an adventure. You can keep up with Bobby Jo's
wildlife photography and safari journeys on Instagram and
Facebook at Bobby Jo Safaris. And if you'd love to join one of
(27:43):
her photography tours or workshops, you can find all the
details at Bobby Joseph safaris.com.
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