June 16, 2025 • 27 mins
What is it like to run a lodge on the edge of tiger country, train over two thousand wildlife guides and share your backyard with big cats? Just ask Ratna Singh, India’s very own superwoman.
In this episode I am recording right on the pool deck at our beautiful base inside Kanha National Park. There are candles flickering, owls calling and the forest is only metres away, perfect for a chat with Ratna, who is one of the most inspiring women I know.
We talk about
• Her wild childhood growing up alongside tigers in Bandhavgarh
• The leap from a career in law and the UN to tracking big cats for a living
• Being the first and only female guide in several parks across India
• What makes Indian safaris so unique and why tracking here keeps you sharp
• How India is leading the way with conservation and how we can all help
There are tiger tales, leopard close calls and the magic of seeing nature through new eyes. Ratna is living proof that following your instincts can change your life and protect the wild places we all love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Safari Life with Bobby Jo, where you'll get a
front row seat to some of the most breathtaking wildlife
experiences on the planet. Bobby Jo's a wildlife
photographer and safari guide, leading photography tours to
incredible destinations like theSerengeti, Patagonia, India,
Antarctica and beyond. In this podcast, she shares
(00:21):
expert photography tips, behind the scenes stories, and insights
into Wildlife Conservation. If you'd like to learn more
about her tours and workshops, visit bobbyjoesafaris.com.
Hello Honey Badgers. It's your chief honey badger
here, Bobby Joe, and I'm connecting with you from a
(00:42):
really special place actually atdinner.
We just had a fabulous meal and we're on the pool deck with
candles everywhere. It's a really beautiful
atmosphere and we're right on the edge of Khanna National
Park, so the forest is only metres away.
And in fact maybe about 15 minutes ago we had a barking
deer alarm calling. So we're sitting here and
(01:04):
there's probably a tiger or a leopard or even some wild dogs
coming past. So that's really cool.
And we've my lovely guests and we've got a very special person
that has joined us for dinner and that's Ratna Singh.
And I have known Ratna since 2019 and she is an absolute
superwoman. I have a massive girl crush on
her. She's very inspiring.
(01:25):
She actually owns this beautifullodge with her husband Wasim
that we're staying in Sacrum Lodge.
It's amazing. It's such an experience staying
here. But also route night trains,
guides. So wildlife guys or naturalist
in India and I think you've mentioned before Ratna that
you've trained 2400 guides. Yes, that's incredible.
Thank. You.
Do you remember how we first metyou?
(01:46):
I met you at NAG 0. Yes.
And I invited Ratna to join us on a game drive with some of my
guests. And your knowledge was just
incredible. And I as soon as you opened your
mouth, I was like, this woman isamazing.
And we actually my very first Asian wild dog sighting was with
you at the waterhole. Do you remember that?
No, you don't remember that. I remember the wild dogs, but I
(02:08):
didn't know that it was your first sighting in India ever.
Yeah, so I feel like I'm connected to you through the
doll, the Asian wild dog. And then today we had an
exceptional sighting in the park.
We saw 22 dogs and I think 10 ofthem were puppies.
So amazing. Tell me Ratna, you grew up in
Bandhavaga. Is that sin MP?
(02:29):
The state is, Yep, yes. So I didn't actually, my home's
quite close to Bandhavgarh TigerReserve, but I went away to
boarding school because you knowwhat, these areas are like rural
education back then wasn't, you know, the opportunities for
education were very basic. So I went off to boarding
school. What's that animal?
(02:53):
It's and I'll. OK, we are literally sitting out
in the wild right now, so we might get interrupted with we've
got owls calling. OK, sorry.
Continue. Yeah, so I grew up actually in a
boarding school, but I'm from near Bangalore, Tiger Reserve.
And you know, it's really interesting where we are sitting
now. My backyard literally was this.
(03:15):
So I have seen as a as a very young child, I've seen tigers
from the balcony of my home. How well would you be?
About 5:00-ish. And how did that make you feel
seeing your first tiger? I didn't at that time, no.
It was my first Tiger because I had probably been seeing them
quite regularly. For us, wild animals were the
(03:37):
norm rather than the exception. It's quite like, you know, we're
sitting here very close to the jungle.
It's amazing. We grew, well, the three of us
here grew up with Kangaroos, I guess.
Wow, at our back. I literally had Kangaroos at my
back door most nights and in thefront yard.
But tigers slightly different. That's incredible.
And when you were younger, what did you want to do with your
(03:58):
life? Is this the path that you wanted
to take? No, I didn't know that.
I always liked wildlife. I always liked animals in the
jungles. Also because, you know, I went
to boarding school in the city far away, and the state was the
most populous state in India. So, you know, there were more
people, less jungle. And when I was driving back home
(04:19):
every holiday for vacation, the moment I started to see forests
and, you know, just vast open spaces, I had this feeling of
being home. And that sort of always stayed
with me. Whenever I'm in the jungle, I
have this feeling that I'm home.So that was my first sort of
(04:41):
draw with wildlife. But I didn't know then, Bobby
Joe, that you could do somethingin the wilderness.
Like fine, if you were working for the forest department or you
were researching, it's a different matter.
But to be a wildlife guide is I didn't know such a thing existed
and definitely not for women. When?
(05:03):
Was the moment that you realizedor how did you get into the
guiding? You know, the older I got.
And then because my home was here and every time I came from
school or college as a family, we just went into either Kanha
or Bangarhar, like one of these reserves.
And then when I was, I think, incollege, I used to really envy
(05:24):
the men who were the naturalistsbecause I thought it was such a
good job to, you know, live in the wilderness and go out track
tigers. And then in the evening you're
sitting by the fire. It seemed like an idyllic life
and it seemed like something I would really love and it would
come naturally to me because, you know, my roots are rural and
(05:47):
jungle. I actually studied history and
then I did a postgraduate diploma in international law and
then I was working for the UNHCR.
What's that? Sorry.
United Nations High Commissionerfor Refugees.
Wow. So yes, I was working for them
and I was on my way to pursue LLM to a master's degree in law.
(06:13):
And then a very good friend of mine calls me and he says,
listen, it was just like, by theway, kind of a conversation.
He happened to call and say, listen, you wanted to be in the
jungles and there's this Africancompany and it's teaming up with
this Indian hotel, you know, andthey're coming up and you were
keen, so why don't you give it ashot?
(06:33):
So I said, really, I was like amazed.
So he gave me the trainer's number, who later on was my
boss. He said, you know what, I'm
going to Bamagar actually. And I have a train to catch at
2:00. And this was at 9:30 or 10:00 in
the morning. So if you come and meet me,
we'll we'll just see. So promptly I arrived at the
(06:55):
hotel where he was scheduled to leave and we had this interview.
And he said, OK, fine, you're onand in three days time you
report to. And I was absolutely the last
person on the bus for that Ranger training course.
I just gave it a shot and I had deferred joining for my masters
in law remember and I never did go back.
(07:17):
Wow, But that still probably helps you right now in in the
role you're here at the lodge and even in your guiding having
all that background, I'd say I. Think just education is always
good, you know, It just gives you a different perspective.
OK. And you mentioned earlier to us
that you actually went over to South Africa I.
Did yes. I started going there in 2007,
(07:38):
then I was last there in 2013 totrain and I think 2015 was my
last trip. What are the biggest?
Differences between going on safari, say, and we've guiding
in South Africa to India as. You know, the jungles are very
different. It's a Bush.
It's open. The number of animals, you know,
animal numbers are higher. But here I want to say, and I
(07:59):
think it's quite an interesting thing when we say Africa
generally, I think it might interest people to know that the
entire continent of Africa, the population of the entire
continent of Africa is almost the same to India.
So you have the one country witha whole continent's population
(08:21):
and at the same time managing tohave these wild spaces and this
biodiversity. I think it's something
commendable because we're so packed so tightly with the
animals. But you know, to answer your
question, I think in Africa you see animals easily.
Here you really have to track them.
(08:42):
Yeah, Wasim, I think Wasim said to us last night that yeah,
Africa you see animals, India, you look, you have to look and
you. Hear you hear?
Yeah, I have to track them. That's one of my biggest
enjoyments actually. I don't, if you guys agree, is
that when you're out there and it's all like putting the puzzle
together, I feel like, you know,law and order out in Kana
National Park. Like, you hear the alarm call,
(09:02):
then you see a pug mark and yeah, you put it together and
you sit yourself on a road whereyou think they're gonna come
through. And we have been heavily
reinforced, like massively rewarded for just listening.
Yes, watching and waiting, that's a really amazing part of
it and. Also, because the jungles are so
dense, the wildlife here is, I feel a lot more vocal.
And I think the animals in Africa, because they're
(09:26):
literally trying to hide in plain sight, they keep a very
quiet. 3,000,000 Wildebeest hiding.
They're pretty vocal though, to be fair.
Wildebeest. A very vocal, yeah.
Wildebeest. What's your most memorable
sighting that you've had? Like 1 sighting that you always
just. It's your go to when someone
asks you this question. Goodness, it can be more than
one all. Right.
(09:46):
So you know, that's just what comes to my head right now.
This was when I was in training,and I had this trainer from
Binder, and he was sitting behind me, and I was at the
wheel. And you know how vehicles in
Africa don't have the door? The Ranger doesn't have the
door. Yeah.
So back then, all vehicles also didn't have the door.
(10:08):
And we were tracking this tigress, and I could see her
coming like that. So I parked next to a rocky
patch. It was slightly higher ground,
so we could see the tigress walking.
And suddenly she disappears. The next minute.
She's about 3 feet away from me at eye level.
(10:28):
She's just come up from she sneaked around and she's just
come up on this rock next to me.And now she's at eye level.
And I wasn't really frightened, but for some reason, I was
fumbling with my, you know, And so Seth was really calm, my
trainer. And he says, OK, Ratna, let's
reverse. And I just couldn't seem to get
(10:50):
the vehicle started. And he said, OK, fine, now do
nothing, let's just sit here. So we sat quietly.
It didn't seem to be like a stressful situation.
And the Tigris also stood there.And then I think a few seconds
later she just walked off. Was she giving you eye contact?
(11:10):
I didn't give it eye contact. Oh my word.
Yeah. No door as well.
Wow. OK, you got another story.
I love stories with you guys. This.
Was also at another lodge where the property is quite huge.
It's about 200 acres. So from the staff village to the
(11:32):
guest area was like a kilometer through the jungle.
I remember New Year Eve and there was a Bush dinner with
guests and everyone was out tillmidnight.
And then since the guests were right there not far, so they
went to bed. And there used to be a shuttle
service. Like some vehicles would go up
and down with the staff. But I said, you know, it's going
to take a lot of time. It's already past midnight and I
(11:55):
have a safari in the morning, soI'll just quickly walk back.
It's not going to take me more than like 10 minutes or slow.
And I didn't have a torch, just the torch on my cell phone.
And now as I'm walking exactly midway, I realized that my
batteries have run out. So now I'm walking in pitch
darkness. There was some moon, so you
(12:17):
could see. You know how after a while, if
the track is broad, your eyes adjust?
And so I started to walk and then I see this leopard.
It jumped out from the tree in front of me.
So when the leopard jumped, I could see him outlined.
And then it landed softly in front of me.
When something is outlined, I could see it easily, but when
(12:40):
there's undergrowth and it was completely dark, so I couldn't
see the leopard, and I was sort of waiting for a scurrying sound
and I just froze in my tracks because that's what you're
trained to do. But I couldn't hear the leopard
walking away, so I just stood there shaking.
And then I could hear from town like you can hear this music.
(13:02):
I could hear these drum beats. And I'm thinking to myself, no,
what? People are still partying.
And then I realised it was my heart beating.
Oh. My word.
It was like drum beat. It's My heart was pounding.
And the leopard would have heardthat, no doubt I.
Just waited for a while and I think it may have been not more
(13:22):
than a few minutes, and then I heard, you know, the crunching
of leaves. So I knew that the leopard's now
walking away. And then, slowly, in the
darkness, I made my way back. That is a very intense story and
we saw some footage every night from Wasim showed us your
security cameras. Yes, you guys get regular tigers
(13:44):
walking through the property. And this tiger, I'm not sure
which it was a male. He walked from like where my
room is along the path and down to where the guests are staying.
That's quite incredible. And Wasim was saying last night
that they could be just sitting there and they just wait for you
to move out the way and then they come through.
They've already seen and heard us.
That's usually the case. Wow, and when you first started
(14:05):
guiding, what were the challenges?
I mean, it's we talked earlier on before it's very male
dominated the guiding world evenin Africa all over the world,
you'd have been only one of few females, right?
How many females were guiding at?
That time there was just me in every park that I went.
So starting out in Balagar, Paige, Panna Kanha, I never saw
any other women guiding before me, at least in all these parks.
(14:30):
Were you accepted? So initially I was treated like
an oddity and when I would drivein the villages, sometimes the
kids and people would come running out to see this woman
driving because Indians and rural India people are generally
very mild. I think they were not quite sure
(14:53):
with me behind the wheel if I'd,you know, going to drive off a
Cliff. So I think that was definitely
one of the concerns. What about your communication?
And this is by no means hating on men.
I mean, we all love, we love men, you know.
Did you have communication issues with other guides?
(15:13):
Were they secretive of information?
Did they see you as a threat? How were you perceived amongst
your fellow colleagues? Interestingly, my own colleagues
with my own company, they were very, very, very supportive and
the company is really supportive.
So that was good. On the outside.
Other people, they'd say things like, oh, it's a male dominated
(15:35):
field and people would also say that, you know, a woman doing a
man's job is so not ladylike. People will cast aspersions at
your character because you have to be bad characters if you're
working in a male dominated society.
Interestingly. And now that you're asking me,
Bobbijo, I can't think of the, you know, I know that it was
(15:57):
very stressful when I was going through it, but when I look
back, I can only remember the good stuff.
And the good thing, though, is when I gained a bit of respect,
I went right to the top in termsof support.
People really looked out for me.They helped me and I became one
(16:19):
of the guys, I guess, Yeah. And what made you go from being
a naturalist guide to training people to be naturalist guides?
Quite simply, I saw how a personality can change with this
particular guiding method and I was very impressed and
influenced by my own trainer. He heads his the head of all
(16:43):
trainers for and beyond in Africa, and he had a lot of
influence on moulding my personality, I would say.
So I think that done right, it has the power to really mould
people. Yeah, that's why so.
You're still doing that job, you're obviously running the
lodge with Wasim and you're still teaching, yes.
So you're travelling all over. Where are you travelling to?
(17:06):
Mostly central India, but I go as far as Kaziranga and
Rajasthan. Central India is my comfort
zone. Well, the.
Guides we've come across so far in central India have been
exceptional, so I'm sure you've had something to do with them
along the way. Just really passionate and so
friendly. Yes, thank you.
I. Have to ask you this question
(17:26):
'cause I I know this story, but I don't think the guests know
that you did. You guide Jonathan and Angela
Scott on Safari. I do I'm so.
Jealous. Jonathan and Angie, Yeah.
Where did you guide them? At Panna and also here in Kanha.
Yeah, for those that don't know who they are, it's a Big Cat
diary. They've shaped a lot of the the
TV and we've seen of cats. Like I grew up watching Big Cat
(17:49):
Diaries and what would they like?
Lovely, wonderful people, they look.
Like they'd be and. Then, yeah.
And when we went out to Panna together and I learned so much
from them just, you know, the love for wildlife that they
have. And other than that, they're
just such humble and kind. And, you know, they're people
(18:10):
that all wildlife is around the world.
Recognize. They're also quite funny.
Yeah, they're, they're quite funny.
Were they very witty? How were they when they saw
their tigers? Like, how did are they?
Pretty excited. So I think.
Before I started guiding, they had been to India and they had
seen tigers. But this is another thing that
strikes me now that when I'm remembering that, you know, they
(18:33):
may have seen so many animals around in their life, but every
time they came back from safari,they were excited about even the
smallest of things. What's the best thing about
safari is that, you know, naturally we're all attracted to
the draw card is tigers. But yeah, some of my guests
today got to witness, see my obsession come into play with
the dogs. Yeah, and be really kind of
(18:55):
blown away by the behaviour we watched today.
And the more and more you go on safari and you go into nature,
you start getting, you just start noticing all the small
things. Like today I was blown away with
hundreds of butterflies in your in the accommodate around the
accommodation in in the Creek there.
It's just beautiful. What's your favorite thing to do
in Kana? Like is it when you've got time
off? Do you go and spend any time in
(19:15):
the park? We will see him.
Like I'm assuming you don't go out tracking tigers 'cause
that's what you're doing with tourists.
What's your favorite thing to doin Kana?
I. Know this may come across as
slightly lame, but. Lame.
But especially on winter mornings, I like to drive
around. Wasim loves birding and we just,
(19:37):
I'm very happy to see signs of tiger.
I don't necessarily have to track Tiger or see it, and
that's because, you know, we live here, but I really love
having coffee in that mid morning break in the park.
Well, I love it. My highlight, Carter is the
samosas. I remember my first samosa back
(19:58):
in 2009 in Kana National Park and it still hasn't changed.
You're heavily involved in conservation.
What do you see in the future happening?
Do you think things are in? I mean, I've travelled
extensively across the planet, especially in Africa.
I'll have to tell you right now,India does conservation well, I
mean, you've got the hard ground.
Bara Singer here, which were almost you almost lost them 60
(20:21):
was it 66 individuals? They went down to 19. 70, yeah.
And how many now in the? State, I think close to 1800.
Wow. But that's 2000, and that's
mostly due to the work that KanaNational Park has done, Yes.
And you guys, we've seen the Bombers out in the park where
you've caught some up and transferred them to like Bent
Havgar, right? Yes, that's incredible work.
(20:42):
I mean, India is really ahead ofthe game with conservation in my
opinion. Yes, I agree with you.
Do you, what do you think needs to happen to to keep having
these improvements? Do you think tourism?
I'm very careful in watching tourism all the time and seeing
what impact even I have as my small safari business.
What do you think needs to improve or what could we?
What can tourists help with especially?
(21:04):
In India at the moment, you knowthe government is at least on
paper, they've caught all the right policies.
So for example, all the lodges have this rule that how you
manage waste and all of that. So on paper the policies are
there. I think everyone who's a part of
this business needs to follow through.
(21:24):
So that's one. But I think as tourists nowadays
in rural areas like this, we don't have very good
infrastructure for waste management.
We have to somehow manage it. So I think what tourists can do
is be mindful of producing wastewhen they go on safari.
That's one. And the good thing here is that
(21:48):
India, the parks are not dependent entirely on tourism or
actually at all on tourism for the running of the parks.
So for the country the parks areconservation 1st and tourism is
a by product it. Makes a lot of sense.
We've, yeah. Some conversations we've had and
(22:08):
people we've met, yeah. Given we've got the world's
largest population living alongside the largest cat, you
know, India has some of the mosticonic megafauna anywhere in the
world. Like we've got tigers, we've got
lions, we've got elephants, we've got rhino, we've got Gore,
(22:30):
which is the largest cow in the world.
We've got wild Buffalo, we have got the largest venomous snake
in the world, the king cobra. So Indians are living alongside
all of these animals, you know, And it's, I find it incredible
that not long ago, I think it was in the West somewhere,
somebody had a squirrel, a pet squirrel that was quite famous
(22:52):
on Instagram. But it was.
So the squirrel, it was the US and the squirrel used to go into
other people's homes, I think two months ago.
And somebody complained and animal control came and
euthanized the squirrel. So imagine the kind of conflict
that Indians are living with, with tigers and leopards and
(23:17):
lions at the same time managing to save and getting better.
So I think in terms of hope, we're doing well.
But even for because Indians themselves are travelling in
large numbers within the parks, I think they need to in general,
tourists need to be mindful of what they're doing here.
I. Haven't discovered the whole
(23:38):
world yet, but I can say that Indians are some of the most
passionate, enthusiastic safari goers.
Like it actually is a highlight of my safari.
And I think the guests will agree that you go on safari and
you come across another safari truck and it can be a bit of
traffic out there and you're allkind of trying to, you're
jostling for the best position in your little gypsy.
(23:59):
No one gets cranky. Everybody waves everybody in.
We've even had car accidents where people have run up our
backside in the gypsies and no one says like, no one gets
upset. Everyone's like, no worries.
Like, we're here watching a leopard.
It is the most friendliest placeto go on safari.
Like, everyone's waving at you. The other day, we were at a
leopard sighting in Nag 0, whichwas very exceptional sighting.
(24:21):
And Nag 0 can be, you know, the animals can be shy there.
And it's this leopard was quite comfortable and she was
drinking. And there's this group of
gorgeous Indian women in the carnext to us.
And their sighting was Susan. They were staring at Susan the
entire trip and smiling at her. They weren't even looking at the
leopard. And they were like, hello, ma'am
and waving and, and you know, Susan's up in action trying to
get the shots of the leopard. And these, these guests are
(24:42):
actually watching what's incurred the entire sighting.
You just can't help but just smile.
And it's infectious, the enthusiasm here.
It's it's brilliant. Thank you.
We we love this place and we're having such a great safari.
Thank you so much for having us here and for joining us on the
podcast. And yeah, you're very inspiring
woman. And what's the future for you?
(25:02):
Like what do you want to do in the future?
My endeavour now is creating awareness amongst tourists and
also business owners. Yes.
Because, you know, I, I feel that there's a responsibility
in, in wildlife areas for business owners.
And unfortunately, you know, there have been some poaching
instances and some of those are because, you know, we know that
(25:25):
we have animal movement here. We never put it on social media.
And this is nowadays, this is one of my pet projects because
these gang members or poachers will look for social media posts
of animals that are outside the reserve.
I've seen your posts on that recently so that that's.
Something that I feel really strongly about.
(25:46):
OK. And also, yeah, that for now,
and it keeps changing once. If I've got a bit of traction on
that then I'll move on to something else.
Congratulations on a beautiful life.
And the lodge is yeah, it's we, it's my favorite place.
So I'm so glad that you guys came here and it's it's so nice
to have met you all those years ago.
Thank you very much. Thank.
(26:06):
You, Bobby. Jill.
I really hope you've enjoyed listening to our India
adventures in 2025. It's a place that you must put
on your list. A lot of people are nervous
about visiting India. Please don't be.
It's spectacular. Indians are so friendly and
accommodating. The wildlife is unreal, the
habitats, the food. It is such an exceptional
experience that everyone must experience for themselves.
(26:29):
Please get in touch if you'd like to travel with me next
year. In 2026 I'm going to be running
the exact same trip and hosting it myself.
Still got a couple of spots left.
Don't be sure you'll not regret it.
It is such an experience. It's going to open your eyes and
open your heart and you're goingto come away with some
spectacular photographs and stories.
So get in touch info@bobbyjoesafaris.com.
(26:50):
You can also download the India brochure under our 2026 safaris
on the website bobbyjoesafaris.com if you.
Enjoyed this episode? Be sure to hit the follow button
so you never miss an adventure. You can keep up with Bobby Joe's
wildlife photography and safari journeys on Instagram and
Facebook at Bobby Joe's Safaris.And if you'd love to join one of
her photography tours or workshops, you can find all the
(27:13):
details at bobbyjoesafaris.com.
Welcome to Safari Life with Bobby Jo, where you'll get a
front row seat to some of the most breathtaking wildlife
experiences on the planet. Bobby Jo's a wildlife
photographer and safari guide, leading photography tours to
incredible destinations like theSerengeti, Patagonia, India,
Antarctica and beyond. In this podcast, she shares
(00:21):
expert photography tips, behind the scenes stories, and insights
into Wildlife Conservation. If you'd like to learn more
about her tours and workshops, visit bobbyjoesafaris.com.
Hello Honey Badgers. It's your chief honey badger
here, Bobby Joe, and I'm connecting with you from a
(00:42):
really special place actually atdinner.
We just had a fabulous meal and we're on the pool deck with
candles everywhere. It's a really beautiful
atmosphere and we're right on the edge of Khanna National
Park, so the forest is only metres away.
And in fact maybe about 15 minutes ago we had a barking
deer alarm calling. So we're sitting here and
(01:04):
there's probably a tiger or a leopard or even some wild dogs
coming past. So that's really cool.
And we've my lovely guests and we've got a very special person
that has joined us for dinner and that's Ratna Singh.
And I have known Ratna since 2019 and she is an absolute
superwoman. I have a massive girl crush on
her. She's very inspiring.
(01:25):
She actually owns this beautifullodge with her husband Wasim
that we're staying in Sacrum Lodge.
It's amazing. It's such an experience staying
here. But also route night trains,
guides. So wildlife guys or naturalist
in India and I think you've mentioned before Ratna that
you've trained 2400 guides. Yes, that's incredible.
Thank. You.
Do you remember how we first metyou?
(01:46):
I met you at NAG 0. Yes.
And I invited Ratna to join us on a game drive with some of my
guests. And your knowledge was just
incredible. And I as soon as you opened your
mouth, I was like, this woman isamazing.
And we actually my very first Asian wild dog sighting was with
you at the waterhole. Do you remember that?
No, you don't remember that. I remember the wild dogs, but I
(02:08):
didn't know that it was your first sighting in India ever.
Yeah, so I feel like I'm connected to you through the
doll, the Asian wild dog. And then today we had an
exceptional sighting in the park.
We saw 22 dogs and I think 10 ofthem were puppies.
So amazing. Tell me Ratna, you grew up in
Bandhavaga. Is that sin MP?
(02:29):
The state is, Yep, yes. So I didn't actually, my home's
quite close to Bandhavgarh TigerReserve, but I went away to
boarding school because you knowwhat, these areas are like rural
education back then wasn't, you know, the opportunities for
education were very basic. So I went off to boarding
school. What's that animal?
(02:53):
It's and I'll. OK, we are literally sitting out
in the wild right now, so we might get interrupted with we've
got owls calling. OK, sorry.
Continue. Yeah, so I grew up actually in a
boarding school, but I'm from near Bangalore, Tiger Reserve.
And you know, it's really interesting where we are sitting
now. My backyard literally was this.
(03:15):
So I have seen as a as a very young child, I've seen tigers
from the balcony of my home. How well would you be?
About 5:00-ish. And how did that make you feel
seeing your first tiger? I didn't at that time, no.
It was my first Tiger because I had probably been seeing them
quite regularly. For us, wild animals were the
(03:37):
norm rather than the exception. It's quite like, you know, we're
sitting here very close to the jungle.
It's amazing. We grew, well, the three of us
here grew up with Kangaroos, I guess.
Wow, at our back. I literally had Kangaroos at my
back door most nights and in thefront yard.
But tigers slightly different. That's incredible.
And when you were younger, what did you want to do with your
(03:58):
life? Is this the path that you wanted
to take? No, I didn't know that.
I always liked wildlife. I always liked animals in the
jungles. Also because, you know, I went
to boarding school in the city far away, and the state was the
most populous state in India. So, you know, there were more
people, less jungle. And when I was driving back home
(04:19):
every holiday for vacation, the moment I started to see forests
and, you know, just vast open spaces, I had this feeling of
being home. And that sort of always stayed
with me. Whenever I'm in the jungle, I
have this feeling that I'm home.So that was my first sort of
(04:41):
draw with wildlife. But I didn't know then, Bobby
Joe, that you could do somethingin the wilderness.
Like fine, if you were working for the forest department or you
were researching, it's a different matter.
But to be a wildlife guide is I didn't know such a thing existed
and definitely not for women. When?
(05:03):
Was the moment that you realizedor how did you get into the
guiding? You know, the older I got.
And then because my home was here and every time I came from
school or college as a family, we just went into either Kanha
or Bangarhar, like one of these reserves.
And then when I was, I think, incollege, I used to really envy
(05:24):
the men who were the naturalistsbecause I thought it was such a
good job to, you know, live in the wilderness and go out track
tigers. And then in the evening you're
sitting by the fire. It seemed like an idyllic life
and it seemed like something I would really love and it would
come naturally to me because, you know, my roots are rural and
(05:47):
jungle. I actually studied history and
then I did a postgraduate diploma in international law and
then I was working for the UNHCR.
What's that? Sorry.
United Nations High Commissionerfor Refugees.
Wow. So yes, I was working for them
and I was on my way to pursue LLM to a master's degree in law.
(06:13):
And then a very good friend of mine calls me and he says,
listen, it was just like, by theway, kind of a conversation.
He happened to call and say, listen, you wanted to be in the
jungles and there's this Africancompany and it's teaming up with
this Indian hotel, you know, andthey're coming up and you were
keen, so why don't you give it ashot?
(06:33):
So I said, really, I was like amazed.
So he gave me the trainer's number, who later on was my
boss. He said, you know what, I'm
going to Bamagar actually. And I have a train to catch at
2:00. And this was at 9:30 or 10:00 in
the morning. So if you come and meet me,
we'll we'll just see. So promptly I arrived at the
(06:55):
hotel where he was scheduled to leave and we had this interview.
And he said, OK, fine, you're onand in three days time you
report to. And I was absolutely the last
person on the bus for that Ranger training course.
I just gave it a shot and I had deferred joining for my masters
in law remember and I never did go back.
(07:17):
Wow, But that still probably helps you right now in in the
role you're here at the lodge and even in your guiding having
all that background, I'd say I. Think just education is always
good, you know, It just gives you a different perspective.
OK. And you mentioned earlier to us
that you actually went over to South Africa I.
Did yes. I started going there in 2007,
(07:38):
then I was last there in 2013 totrain and I think 2015 was my
last trip. What are the biggest?
Differences between going on safari, say, and we've guiding
in South Africa to India as. You know, the jungles are very
different. It's a Bush.
It's open. The number of animals, you know,
animal numbers are higher. But here I want to say, and I
(07:59):
think it's quite an interesting thing when we say Africa
generally, I think it might interest people to know that the
entire continent of Africa, the population of the entire
continent of Africa is almost the same to India.
So you have the one country witha whole continent's population
(08:21):
and at the same time managing tohave these wild spaces and this
biodiversity. I think it's something
commendable because we're so packed so tightly with the
animals. But you know, to answer your
question, I think in Africa you see animals easily.
Here you really have to track them.
(08:42):
Yeah, Wasim, I think Wasim said to us last night that yeah,
Africa you see animals, India, you look, you have to look and
you. Hear you hear?
Yeah, I have to track them. That's one of my biggest
enjoyments actually. I don't, if you guys agree, is
that when you're out there and it's all like putting the puzzle
together, I feel like, you know,law and order out in Kana
National Park. Like, you hear the alarm call,
(09:02):
then you see a pug mark and yeah, you put it together and
you sit yourself on a road whereyou think they're gonna come
through. And we have been heavily
reinforced, like massively rewarded for just listening.
Yes, watching and waiting, that's a really amazing part of
it and. Also, because the jungles are so
dense, the wildlife here is, I feel a lot more vocal.
And I think the animals in Africa, because they're
(09:26):
literally trying to hide in plain sight, they keep a very
quiet. 3,000,000 Wildebeest hiding.
They're pretty vocal though, to be fair.
Wildebeest. A very vocal, yeah.
Wildebeest. What's your most memorable
sighting that you've had? Like 1 sighting that you always
just. It's your go to when someone
asks you this question. Goodness, it can be more than
one all. Right.
(09:46):
So you know, that's just what comes to my head right now.
This was when I was in training,and I had this trainer from
Binder, and he was sitting behind me, and I was at the
wheel. And you know how vehicles in
Africa don't have the door? The Ranger doesn't have the
door. Yeah.
So back then, all vehicles also didn't have the door.
(10:08):
And we were tracking this tigress, and I could see her
coming like that. So I parked next to a rocky
patch. It was slightly higher ground,
so we could see the tigress walking.
And suddenly she disappears. The next minute.
She's about 3 feet away from me at eye level.
(10:28):
She's just come up from she sneaked around and she's just
come up on this rock next to me.And now she's at eye level.
And I wasn't really frightened, but for some reason, I was
fumbling with my, you know, And so Seth was really calm, my
trainer. And he says, OK, Ratna, let's
reverse. And I just couldn't seem to get
(10:50):
the vehicle started. And he said, OK, fine, now do
nothing, let's just sit here. So we sat quietly.
It didn't seem to be like a stressful situation.
And the Tigris also stood there.And then I think a few seconds
later she just walked off. Was she giving you eye contact?
(11:10):
I didn't give it eye contact. Oh my word.
Yeah. No door as well.
Wow. OK, you got another story.
I love stories with you guys. This.
Was also at another lodge where the property is quite huge.
It's about 200 acres. So from the staff village to the
(11:32):
guest area was like a kilometer through the jungle.
I remember New Year Eve and there was a Bush dinner with
guests and everyone was out tillmidnight.
And then since the guests were right there not far, so they
went to bed. And there used to be a shuttle
service. Like some vehicles would go up
and down with the staff. But I said, you know, it's going
to take a lot of time. It's already past midnight and I
(11:55):
have a safari in the morning, soI'll just quickly walk back.
It's not going to take me more than like 10 minutes or slow.
And I didn't have a torch, just the torch on my cell phone.
And now as I'm walking exactly midway, I realized that my
batteries have run out. So now I'm walking in pitch
darkness. There was some moon, so you
(12:17):
could see. You know how after a while, if
the track is broad, your eyes adjust?
And so I started to walk and then I see this leopard.
It jumped out from the tree in front of me.
So when the leopard jumped, I could see him outlined.
And then it landed softly in front of me.
When something is outlined, I could see it easily, but when
(12:40):
there's undergrowth and it was completely dark, so I couldn't
see the leopard, and I was sort of waiting for a scurrying sound
and I just froze in my tracks because that's what you're
trained to do. But I couldn't hear the leopard
walking away, so I just stood there shaking.
And then I could hear from town like you can hear this music.
(13:02):
I could hear these drum beats. And I'm thinking to myself, no,
what? People are still partying.
And then I realised it was my heart beating.
Oh. My word.
It was like drum beat. It's My heart was pounding.
And the leopard would have heardthat, no doubt I.
Just waited for a while and I think it may have been not more
(13:22):
than a few minutes, and then I heard, you know, the crunching
of leaves. So I knew that the leopard's now
walking away. And then, slowly, in the
darkness, I made my way back. That is a very intense story and
we saw some footage every night from Wasim showed us your
security cameras. Yes, you guys get regular tigers
(13:44):
walking through the property. And this tiger, I'm not sure
which it was a male. He walked from like where my
room is along the path and down to where the guests are staying.
That's quite incredible. And Wasim was saying last night
that they could be just sitting there and they just wait for you
to move out the way and then they come through.
They've already seen and heard us.
That's usually the case. Wow, and when you first started
(14:05):
guiding, what were the challenges?
I mean, it's we talked earlier on before it's very male
dominated the guiding world evenin Africa all over the world,
you'd have been only one of few females, right?
How many females were guiding at?
That time there was just me in every park that I went.
So starting out in Balagar, Paige, Panna Kanha, I never saw
any other women guiding before me, at least in all these parks.
(14:30):
Were you accepted? So initially I was treated like
an oddity and when I would drivein the villages, sometimes the
kids and people would come running out to see this woman
driving because Indians and rural India people are generally
very mild. I think they were not quite sure
(14:53):
with me behind the wheel if I'd,you know, going to drive off a
Cliff. So I think that was definitely
one of the concerns. What about your communication?
And this is by no means hating on men.
I mean, we all love, we love men, you know.
Did you have communication issues with other guides?
(15:13):
Were they secretive of information?
Did they see you as a threat? How were you perceived amongst
your fellow colleagues? Interestingly, my own colleagues
with my own company, they were very, very, very supportive and
the company is really supportive.
So that was good. On the outside.
Other people, they'd say things like, oh, it's a male dominated
(15:35):
field and people would also say that, you know, a woman doing a
man's job is so not ladylike. People will cast aspersions at
your character because you have to be bad characters if you're
working in a male dominated society.
Interestingly. And now that you're asking me,
Bobbijo, I can't think of the, you know, I know that it was
(15:57):
very stressful when I was going through it, but when I look
back, I can only remember the good stuff.
And the good thing, though, is when I gained a bit of respect,
I went right to the top in termsof support.
People really looked out for me.They helped me and I became one
(16:19):
of the guys, I guess, Yeah. And what made you go from being
a naturalist guide to training people to be naturalist guides?
Quite simply, I saw how a personality can change with this
particular guiding method and I was very impressed and
influenced by my own trainer. He heads his the head of all
(16:43):
trainers for and beyond in Africa, and he had a lot of
influence on moulding my personality, I would say.
So I think that done right, it has the power to really mould
people. Yeah, that's why so.
You're still doing that job, you're obviously running the
lodge with Wasim and you're still teaching, yes.
So you're travelling all over. Where are you travelling to?
(17:06):
Mostly central India, but I go as far as Kaziranga and
Rajasthan. Central India is my comfort
zone. Well, the.
Guides we've come across so far in central India have been
exceptional, so I'm sure you've had something to do with them
along the way. Just really passionate and so
friendly. Yes, thank you.
I. Have to ask you this question
(17:26):
'cause I I know this story, but I don't think the guests know
that you did. You guide Jonathan and Angela
Scott on Safari. I do I'm so.
Jealous. Jonathan and Angie, Yeah.
Where did you guide them? At Panna and also here in Kanha.
Yeah, for those that don't know who they are, it's a Big Cat
diary. They've shaped a lot of the the
TV and we've seen of cats. Like I grew up watching Big Cat
(17:49):
Diaries and what would they like?
Lovely, wonderful people, they look.
Like they'd be and. Then, yeah.
And when we went out to Panna together and I learned so much
from them just, you know, the love for wildlife that they
have. And other than that, they're
just such humble and kind. And, you know, they're people
(18:10):
that all wildlife is around the world.
Recognize. They're also quite funny.
Yeah, they're, they're quite funny.
Were they very witty? How were they when they saw
their tigers? Like, how did are they?
Pretty excited. So I think.
Before I started guiding, they had been to India and they had
seen tigers. But this is another thing that
strikes me now that when I'm remembering that, you know, they
(18:33):
may have seen so many animals around in their life, but every
time they came back from safari,they were excited about even the
smallest of things. What's the best thing about
safari is that, you know, naturally we're all attracted to
the draw card is tigers. But yeah, some of my guests
today got to witness, see my obsession come into play with
the dogs. Yeah, and be really kind of
(18:55):
blown away by the behaviour we watched today.
And the more and more you go on safari and you go into nature,
you start getting, you just start noticing all the small
things. Like today I was blown away with
hundreds of butterflies in your in the accommodate around the
accommodation in in the Creek there.
It's just beautiful. What's your favorite thing to do
in Kana? Like is it when you've got time
off? Do you go and spend any time in
(19:15):
the park? We will see him.
Like I'm assuming you don't go out tracking tigers 'cause
that's what you're doing with tourists.
What's your favorite thing to doin Kana?
I. Know this may come across as
slightly lame, but. Lame.
But especially on winter mornings, I like to drive
around. Wasim loves birding and we just,
(19:37):
I'm very happy to see signs of tiger.
I don't necessarily have to track Tiger or see it, and
that's because, you know, we live here, but I really love
having coffee in that mid morning break in the park.
Well, I love it. My highlight, Carter is the
samosas. I remember my first samosa back
(19:58):
in 2009 in Kana National Park and it still hasn't changed.
You're heavily involved in conservation.
What do you see in the future happening?
Do you think things are in? I mean, I've travelled
extensively across the planet, especially in Africa.
I'll have to tell you right now,India does conservation well, I
mean, you've got the hard ground.
Bara Singer here, which were almost you almost lost them 60
(20:21):
was it 66 individuals? They went down to 19. 70, yeah.
And how many now in the? State, I think close to 1800.
Wow. But that's 2000, and that's
mostly due to the work that KanaNational Park has done, Yes.
And you guys, we've seen the Bombers out in the park where
you've caught some up and transferred them to like Bent
Havgar, right? Yes, that's incredible work.
(20:42):
I mean, India is really ahead ofthe game with conservation in my
opinion. Yes, I agree with you.
Do you, what do you think needs to happen to to keep having
these improvements? Do you think tourism?
I'm very careful in watching tourism all the time and seeing
what impact even I have as my small safari business.
What do you think needs to improve or what could we?
What can tourists help with especially?
(21:04):
In India at the moment, you knowthe government is at least on
paper, they've caught all the right policies.
So for example, all the lodges have this rule that how you
manage waste and all of that. So on paper the policies are
there. I think everyone who's a part of
this business needs to follow through.
(21:24):
So that's one. But I think as tourists nowadays
in rural areas like this, we don't have very good
infrastructure for waste management.
We have to somehow manage it. So I think what tourists can do
is be mindful of producing wastewhen they go on safari.
That's one. And the good thing here is that
(21:48):
India, the parks are not dependent entirely on tourism or
actually at all on tourism for the running of the parks.
So for the country the parks areconservation 1st and tourism is
a by product it. Makes a lot of sense.
We've, yeah. Some conversations we've had and
(22:08):
people we've met, yeah. Given we've got the world's
largest population living alongside the largest cat, you
know, India has some of the mosticonic megafauna anywhere in the
world. Like we've got tigers, we've got
lions, we've got elephants, we've got rhino, we've got Gore,
(22:30):
which is the largest cow in the world.
We've got wild Buffalo, we have got the largest venomous snake
in the world, the king cobra. So Indians are living alongside
all of these animals, you know, And it's, I find it incredible
that not long ago, I think it was in the West somewhere,
somebody had a squirrel, a pet squirrel that was quite famous
(22:52):
on Instagram. But it was.
So the squirrel, it was the US and the squirrel used to go into
other people's homes, I think two months ago.
And somebody complained and animal control came and
euthanized the squirrel. So imagine the kind of conflict
that Indians are living with, with tigers and leopards and
(23:17):
lions at the same time managing to save and getting better.
So I think in terms of hope, we're doing well.
But even for because Indians themselves are travelling in
large numbers within the parks, I think they need to in general,
tourists need to be mindful of what they're doing here.
I. Haven't discovered the whole
(23:38):
world yet, but I can say that Indians are some of the most
passionate, enthusiastic safari goers.
Like it actually is a highlight of my safari.
And I think the guests will agree that you go on safari and
you come across another safari truck and it can be a bit of
traffic out there and you're allkind of trying to, you're
jostling for the best position in your little gypsy.
(23:59):
No one gets cranky. Everybody waves everybody in.
We've even had car accidents where people have run up our
backside in the gypsies and no one says like, no one gets
upset. Everyone's like, no worries.
Like, we're here watching a leopard.
It is the most friendliest placeto go on safari.
Like, everyone's waving at you. The other day, we were at a
leopard sighting in Nag 0, whichwas very exceptional sighting.
(24:21):
And Nag 0 can be, you know, the animals can be shy there.
And it's this leopard was quite comfortable and she was
drinking. And there's this group of
gorgeous Indian women in the carnext to us.
And their sighting was Susan. They were staring at Susan the
entire trip and smiling at her. They weren't even looking at the
leopard. And they were like, hello, ma'am
and waving and, and you know, Susan's up in action trying to
get the shots of the leopard. And these, these guests are
(24:42):
actually watching what's incurred the entire sighting.
You just can't help but just smile.
And it's infectious, the enthusiasm here.
It's it's brilliant. Thank you.
We we love this place and we're having such a great safari.
Thank you so much for having us here and for joining us on the
podcast. And yeah, you're very inspiring
woman. And what's the future for you?
(25:02):
Like what do you want to do in the future?
My endeavour now is creating awareness amongst tourists and
also business owners. Yes.
Because, you know, I, I feel that there's a responsibility
in, in wildlife areas for business owners.
And unfortunately, you know, there have been some poaching
instances and some of those are because, you know, we know that
(25:25):
we have animal movement here. We never put it on social media.
And this is nowadays, this is one of my pet projects because
these gang members or poachers will look for social media posts
of animals that are outside the reserve.
I've seen your posts on that recently so that that's.
Something that I feel really strongly about.
(25:46):
OK. And also, yeah, that for now,
and it keeps changing once. If I've got a bit of traction on
that then I'll move on to something else.
Congratulations on a beautiful life.
And the lodge is yeah, it's we, it's my favorite place.
So I'm so glad that you guys came here and it's it's so nice
to have met you all those years ago.
Thank you very much. Thank.
(26:06):
You, Bobby. Jill.
I really hope you've enjoyed listening to our India
adventures in 2025. It's a place that you must put
on your list. A lot of people are nervous
about visiting India. Please don't be.
It's spectacular. Indians are so friendly and
accommodating. The wildlife is unreal, the
habitats, the food. It is such an exceptional
experience that everyone must experience for themselves.
(26:29):
Please get in touch if you'd like to travel with me next
year. In 2026 I'm going to be running
the exact same trip and hosting it myself.
Still got a couple of spots left.
Don't be sure you'll not regret it.
It is such an experience. It's going to open your eyes and
open your heart and you're goingto come away with some
spectacular photographs and stories.
So get in touch info@bobbyjoesafaris.com.
(26:50):
You can also download the India brochure under our 2026 safaris
on the website bobbyjoesafaris.com if you.
Enjoyed this episode? Be sure to hit the follow button
so you never miss an adventure. You can keep up with Bobby Joe's
wildlife photography and safari journeys on Instagram and
Facebook at Bobby Joe's Safaris.And if you'd love to join one of
her photography tours or workshops, you can find all the
(27:13):
details at bobbyjoesafaris.com.
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