March 18, 2025 • 39 mins
Fear has a way of twisting our perception, doesn't it? That small mistake at work suddenly threatens your entire career. The awkward social moment becomes evidence that everyone secretly dislikes you. This mental spiral—catastrophizing—feels protective but actually amplifies our suffering.
David and Anna Sage unpack this universal human tendency with both scientific insight and personal vulnerability. Anna courageously shares her lifelong struggle with catastrophic thinking, especially in social situations, while David explains how our ancient survival mechanisms misfire in modern contexts. Their conversation moves beyond simply identifying the problem to offering practical, evidence-based solutions that listeners can implement immediately.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is its nuanced approach to different catastrophizing scenarios. The hosts distinguish between "small-scale" catastrophizing (personal situations within our control) and "big-scale" catastrophizing (larger events beyond our influence), providing tailored strategies for each. From mindful stoicism to rational optimism, the episode presents a toolkit rather than a one-size-fits-all solution.
Research supports their guidance—studies show traditional pessimism doesn't actually prepare us for negative outcomes but instead intensifies both emotional distress and physical pain. The alternative they propose—rational optimism paired with practical planning—offers a more effective approach to life's uncertainties.
Whether you're facing a job evaluation, relationship challenges, or anxiety about world events, this episode provides clarity about why your brain jumps to worst-case scenarios—and more importantly, how to interrupt that pattern. These techniques don't just reduce anxiety; they help restore your sense of agency and perspective when fear threatens to overwhelm.
Subscribe to continue this journey toward greater self-awareness and emotional resilience. Your thoughts shape your reality—learn to choose them wisely.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk
about all things personalgrowth, personal development and
becoming your best self.
My name is David Sage and I ama self-worth and confidence
coach with Sage CoachingSolutions.
Today, I'm joined by my co-hostand sister, anna Sage.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Anna has more lived experience with the topic that
we're talking about today, soI'm going to let her introduce
it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Have you ever found yourself in a position where you
feel like you're spiraling?
You're spiraling.
Your thoughts are making youfeel overwhelmed and every angle
you look at just seems to beagainst you.
As you keep thinking, it justseems to get worse and worse and
worse and there seems to be noway out.
(00:58):
Well, if you're saying, yep,I've been there before, you're
not alone, because that used tobe me for a majority of my life,
when I would come across aproblem or when I was faced with
an obstacle.
That experience of negativethought spiraling is commonly
referred to as catastrophizing.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Before we get into it .
Our goal with this podcast isto share free, helpful tools
with you and anyone you know whois looking to improve their
life.
So take action, subscribe andshare this podcast with them.
The word catastrophizing comesfrom the word catastrophe, but
(01:45):
when you're catastrophizing,it's not creating a literal
catastrophe or a disaster thatwould make headlines.
We're talking about the innernarrative of catastrophic
thinking that can hold us back.
So let's explore whatcatastrophizing actually is, how
it takes place in our minds,why we're prone to it and, most
(02:09):
importantly, how we can overcomeit to live a more clear and
peaceful life.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
The people I work with today would probably be
pretty surprised to hear that Iused to be a habitual
catastrophizer that I used to bea habitual catastrophizer.
These days, I'm usually one ofthe first to recognize when
people are catastrophizing andsay, hey, hold on one second,
let's reframe that or let'sfocus on our locus and focus on
(02:36):
one step at a time.
But that's not something thatalways came naturally to me.
It's something that I've had tointentionally practice and
retrain my brain to thinkdifferently about and, honestly,
I'm not perfect, so there aredefinitely still times where I
find myself spiraling mentallyor catastrophizing.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And, frankly, no one is.
I'm not particularly prone tocatastrophizing, but I still do
it from time to time too, andit's because we, as humans,
evolved in a way thatcatastrophizing actually had
some beneficial use, but theworld that we live in today is
(03:21):
so different from the world thatwe lived in when it was
beneficial.
I don't want to get too into theweeds, though, before we
actually explain exactly whatcatastrophizing is.
Catastrophizing is a form ofcognitive distortion where we
exaggerate the likelihood or theimpact of negative events that
(03:43):
are either happening in our lifeor could happen in our life.
Instead of viewing challengesor setbacks as manageable, we
transform them in our minds intothese overwhelming disasters
that get worse and worse themore that we think about them.
An example would be if you makea small mistake at work, you
(04:05):
might instantly think this isgoing to ruin my career, and
then you start thinking aboutwell, where am I going to get
another job after they fire me?
And on and on and on, until youare homeless, living in a box,
and nobody likes you.
Obviously, this isn'trealistically what's going to
(04:27):
happen, but our minds still dothis exercise, regardless of
whether it's realistic or not.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
When I was a kid.
This would show up for me mostwhen I was feeling very insecure
in a social setting with mypeers.
If I'd make some sort of smallsocial faux pas, I would start
thinking, oh my gosh, noweverybody's laughing at me.
I'd think that other peoplearound me who are whispering oh,
they must be talking about meand thinking now they're going
(04:59):
to go and tell their friendsabout what happened.
And now the whole school'sgoing to know about what
happened.
And it was quite unrealistic.
But in my head it was justfeeding off of my fear that I
was unliked and not good enough.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Instead of seeing it as just one normal human mistake
, it became this grandiose,life-changing error that was
going to ruin the rest of yourschool life.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, I mean it does sound a little too dramatic the
way we're framing it, but Ithink realistically in my head
it was more like kids wouldn'tforget about it, like that
they'd carry it with them aboutme, but in the moment.
Yeah, in the moment though,like I didn't't think it was
like.
Now the whole school is going tobe talking about this small
(05:49):
thing I did, but it was more sonow.
That impact is going to staywith them about me and they're
never going to see me asanything but like oh that weird
kid, does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, because I think sometimes, when we are
explaining it as so extreme,people might not be able to
relate to it Like, well, I'venever thought of to the point
I'm going to be homeless.
But it doesn't always have tobe that extreme.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
No, you're right, and I was probably
over-exaggerating in the waythat I said it, because for some
people it might be that extreme.
For some people it might bethat extreme.
I was more just trying to getacross the fact that it would be
lasting, that this would have along-term negative impact.
That was way disproportionateto the reality.
Right, this pattern of thinkingis more common than you might
(06:37):
realize.
This pattern of thinking ismore common than you might
realize.
It's not about being overlypessimistic, however, pessimism
definitely makes it worse.
If you have a pessimisticoutlook, it is going to fuel
this.
It's like throwing extra gas onthe fire.
But it doesn't come frompessimism.
(06:58):
It's about the brain's naturaltendency to focus on potential
threats, about the brain'snatural tendency to focus on
potential threats, a habit thatonce helped our ancestors, like
I said before, to survive.
Figuring out the worst casescenario being programmed into
our brains, when it wasliterally life or death,
survival, could help us plan forthe worst case scenario.
(07:21):
People that planned for theworst case scenario tended to
survive the worst case scenario.
People that planned for theworst case scenario tended to
survive the worst case scenario.
The people that didn't died off.
But now, because we're notrunning away from tigers.
It can hinder our ability toenjoy the present moment.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
That makes a lot of sense and that resonates with me
.
I think little Anna, who had alot of insecurity of herself in
school settings, socially, wasintentionally trying to be aware
of the worst case scenario inadvance, thinking that at least
(08:04):
if I could prepare myself for itmentally, it wouldn't hurt so
bad if it happened in real life.
So although I was trying toprotect myself from pain,
rejection in the future, Ididn't realize at the time that
it was just preventing me frombeing at peace in the moment.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So why do we keep falling into this trap of
catastrophizing?
Well, for one, like I said, wehave that evolutionary wiring.
Our brains are hardwired todetect threats.
The ancient survival mechanismthat once kept us alive from
physical dangers often misfiresbecause the world that we live
(08:46):
in is so different than the onethat we used to live in.
We have this system fire as ifa tiger is chasing us or as if
something terrible is happeningin normal everyday life, causing
us to catastrophize and planfor survival in situations that
have nothing to do with survival.
(09:08):
It also becomes a learnedbehavior.
Over time, we might learn thatanticipating the worst can
occasionally help us prepare forthat failure, for example, by
thinking if I fail this project,everything will collapse.
We think that we might convinceourselves that we are getting
ready for the disaster, or evenpossibly trying to motivate
(09:31):
ourselves to not have it happen,even though this only actually
increases our anxiety.
Even though this only actuallyincreases our anxiety.
A study by Sullivan andcolleagues in 2001 found that
individuals who engage incatastrophizing tend to
experience higher levels of bothemotional distress and physical
pain.
The research highlighted thatthis type of thinking doesn't
(09:54):
just affect our mood.
It can also have tangibleeffects on our overall
well-being.
Additionally, our environmentplays a significant role.
Constant exposure tosensationalized negative news
and social media feeds thatemphasize the worst-case
scenarios can reinforce ourtendency to catastrophize.
(10:18):
This cultural backdrop can makeour fears seem not only
plausible but inevitable.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Reflecting on what you just said, I'm thinking of
catastrophizing in two differentways.
One would be like big worldcatastrophizing and then another
maybe like small worldcatastrophizing, and here's what
I mean by that, in my head atleast.
Big world catastrophizing wouldbe catastrophizing about things
(10:49):
that are beyond your ownpersonal actions and control,
like a new initiative or systembeing put in at your work that
is going to change up a lot ofthe world that you knew it.
In your position and your role,or even on a broader scale,
(11:12):
like a new presidency, you canactively control things that are
choices you need to make foryourself or a mistake that you
already made, that you're tryingto prevent yourself from being
hurt by making the wrong choiceor from having an awful impact
because of the choice youalready made.
(11:32):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, I think it's an interesting way of
conceptualizing it.
Let's dig a little more intothe small scale ones here for a
second.
You talked about making amistake and then catastrophizing
what you thought the effects ofthat mistake that you actively
(11:55):
made were.
But could you touch on thescenarios where you haven't made
a mistake yet and how thecatastrophizing into the future
happens in that smaller scalerealm?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah.
So I can think of one example.
When I was offered aninternship position for student
teaching, I had the choice oftwo different schools, two
different grade levels, and itfelt like a huge life choice,
even though, in the grand schemeof things, that wasn't going to
change the trajectory of mylife one way or the other.
(12:29):
It was either way going to be ateaching placement.
But anyways, when I was tryingto consider which placement
would be the best fit for me, Istarted putting a lot more
weight on the potentialnegatives of each placement and
the potential negatives of notchoosing the other placement.
(12:51):
Like, well, what if I choosethis placement and then I find
out that the other one wouldhave been the perfect fit for me
and I lose out on working withthat grade level because that
grade level would have been abetter fit?
Or what if the teacher at theother placement is a better
teacher that I could havelearned from and I now missed
the opportunity to learn fromsomebody who's excellent as
(13:13):
opposed to just somebody who'spretty good.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So it seems like one of the things that contributed
to your general indecisivenessbeing a weaker skill for you, as
you've said in previouspodcasts is because, when you
think about them, you're jumpinginto catastrophizing and that
also seems to come with someperfectionism and a ton of extra
(13:38):
pressure on having to make theperfect decision and then, by
catastrophizing and projectingthe worst possible situation on
both of them, you're making thechoice so much more pressured
and with so much more weightthat it makes it hard to make
the choice, because it feelslike it's life or death from the
catastrophizing right.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Right, and I do feel a little more removed from that,
since that was years ago.
I want to give a differentexample that could be more
relatable for those that aren'tin the education field and are
like, okay, yeah, that doesn'tmean anything to me Right now I
actually am actively trying toreframe my thinking around my
evaluation at my new job that iscoming up and I'm putting a lot
(14:21):
of weight on it because it doeshave big implications for me,
or it could, I guess.
I don't really know yet, but ifmy evaluation were to go really
well, maybe there could be apotential that I could get a
raise, and that has a big impacton my life and my well-being.
Now, while this is anotherexample of small-scale
(14:47):
catastrophizing, it's a littledifferent than the example I
gave earlier, where I was facedwith a choice and putting a lot
of weight on the negativepossibilities of each choice.
The reason I'm giving thisexample is twofold One, a lot of
people have evaluations intheir work and I think they
could relate to it, no matterwhat field they work in.
And two, I'm actively goingthrough it right now, so you can
even maybe give me some adviceof how to reframe as I'm
(15:12):
preparing for my evaluation.
Of course I'm doing everythingI can to be as prepared as
possible.
Of course I don't want to messit up.
However, if I'm nervous orsomething unexpected happens, it
might be a little bit out of mycontrol.
So my brain starts coming upwith all the possible small
things that could happen out ofmy control that could lead to my
(15:34):
evaluation going poorly andthat just makes me more anxious
about it, which makes it, I know, logically more likely to
happen that I'm going to messsomething up.
So how do I navigate my anxietysurrounding the pressure of
this to reframe mycatastrophizing so that I don't
(15:58):
end up messing it up for myself?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Before I tell you exactly how to handle your
specific situation, I want totalk about how we overcome
catastrophizing as a whole, andthen I will zone it into your
specific situation.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Sounds great.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Okay.
So catastrophizing comes from aculmination of a series of
different things that we'vetalked about in previous
episodes.
When you're catastrophizing,you're being overcome by fear.
It often spirals and createsanxiety and eventually leads to
the feeling of overwhelm.
(16:41):
When you have a scarcitymindset and you believe that
everything is a zero-sum gameand that there isn't enough for
everyone to go around, that candefinitely contribute to it.
If you're viewing things asblack and white, of course
you're going to blow things outof proportion, and if you're
(17:04):
setting yourself up for negativeexpectations, you're more
likely to actually have thosethings happen.
What we talked about in theepisode on expectations was that
it was best to hope for thebest, not to expect the best,
but also that expecting theworst actually made the worst
(17:26):
more likely to happen.
There's a fundamental flaw inthe logic behind catastrophizing
, especially when studiesactually show that
catastrophizing about somethingand then having it happen does
not actually make the pain ofhaving it happen any better.
You've actually built it up tobe an even bigger problem.
(17:50):
You've felt so much more painin the catastrophizing phase
than half of the time when itactually happens, and then, when
it actually happens, it hurtsjust as much, if not more.
When you ruminate on somethinglike that and you are
catastrophizing, having thisscarcity mindset, the fear is
(18:13):
overwhelming you and you havenegative expectations.
You're often not even doing anyplanning that's productive or
helpful.
You're just repeatedly beatingyourself up as if this terrible
thing is happening to you now.
You're putting yourself throughpain that might not even happen
and, as we just discussed,you're not reducing the pain if
(18:35):
it does.
This is why taking the approachof pessimism and also cynicism
doesn't actually help you orprepare you for the situation to
be any better.
Catastrophizing and puttingyourself in a state of
hopelessness is never helpful.
Hopelessness helps no one.
(18:57):
You want hope.
Otherwise, you're going to justfeel defeated and give up.
This is the big differencebetween worrying about something
and planning for it, aboutsomething and planning for it.
So, instead of resorting topessimism and catastrophizing
(19:17):
and setting negativeexpectations, I'm going to make
the argument for the oppositeoptimism.
Now, I understand it's easiersaid than done.
Just saying hey, don't worryisn't actually that productive.
But it's important tounderstand that worrying isn't
benefiting you.
So don't trick yourself intobelieving that you're helping.
(19:39):
What I'm advocating for is whatI'm calling rational or
realistic optimism.
This is where we do actuallyidentify realistic things that
could go wrong.
But we have to be realistic.
We're using shades of graythinking here to be realistic
(19:59):
and rational about what could gowrong and then actually
building a plan to make surethat those things don't go wrong
.
Those things don't go wrong,then we're hoping for the best
and taking an optimistic outlookbecause we know that we've
already planned for the thingsthat could go wrong, which means
that the situation is morelikely to go right.
(20:22):
Therefore, why not hope for thebest and help make it happen?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Rational optimism Well, hearing you say that I
might have actually alreadyanswered my own question, Can I
share my thinking?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
So I already have a lot of the skills I need to to
be able to recognize when I'mdoing something unhelpful, like
catastrophizing or focusing onthe negatives.
It's just a matter of taking astep back and remembering the
tools I have and the things thatare helpful, to be able to
practice and reframe.
Now that I've been listening toyou and reflecting on it, I
(21:02):
already know what I need to dowhen I have my evaluation.
If I make a mistake, I mix upmy words or I switch up the
order of the lesson that I'mgoing through that I've planned
out well and thoroughly inadvance, or I miss a part of it.
Well, you know what I mightstop and use that as a learning
(21:22):
opportunity for my students,because that's still going to
reflect well on me for mysupervisor to see that I say you
know what.
Even adults make mistakes too,and that's okay.
We can be flexible, we canshift.
Let's go ahead and get intowhat it should be, because
that's just as valuable.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I couldn't agree with you more.
I think that that's a reallygood evaluation of how you can
handle your current situation,but let's remember that your
current situation is one offuture prediction.
We talked about howcatastrophizing happens in
multiple different situations.
One of those situations is whenyou are worried about the
(22:02):
outcomes of something in thefuture, whether it be a decision
or something going wrong.
Another is what happens whenyou just did something, made a
mistake, and now you arecatastrophizing about the
outcomes that will come of that.
The approaches that we have totake are a bit different.
(22:23):
Rational optimism is stillhelpful there, and I will be
doing an episode on it in thefuture.
But I want to talk about theother half, or the flip side,
which is a combination of twodifferent podcasts that we did
in the past, if not more MindfulStoicism, combining the
(22:46):
practices of mindfulness andStoicism.
They might seem like they'resomewhat opposed, but that's the
power of mindfulness andstoicism.
They might seem like they'resomewhat opposed, but that's the
power of it Leaning intowhichever strategy makes more
sense at the time, using ashades of gray approach and
either taking the mindfulapproach or the stoic approach,
(23:07):
based on what is most helpful inthe moment.
These include things likegiving yourself self-compassion
when you screw something up.
Having self-compassion insteadof beating yourself up and
shaming yourself is going to bemuch more productive.
Being mindful and taking abreak to either breathe or walk
(23:28):
or meditate, or many otherthings that we could do using
mindfulness to remove ourselvesfrom that situation.
We are using mindfulness tobring ourselves and our
awareness to the present momentand away from spiraling or
catastrophizing about thepossible implications or the
(23:49):
future.
We can also redirect ourattention to things like
gratitude and the things thatwe're grateful for.
It's hard to spiral while we'retruly feeling grateful.
But beyond just focusing on ourbreath or taking a mindful walk
, mindfulness also gives us thetools to actually be present
(24:13):
with and give ourselves thepermission to feel our emotions
instead of suppressing them,which actually helps us be more
resilient and get through thatsituation.
Now, depending on the situationand the urgency of the matter,
it might actually be moreeffective to take the stoic
approach.
(24:34):
If you're in a crisis situation,you might not have time to give
yourself permission to feel.
You might need to take thestoic approach of I have to shut
those down for a second and setthose emotions aside to get
myself out of this crisis and beas logical as I can.
I need to focus on theimmediate obstacle or problem in
(24:57):
front of me, and so theobstacle becomes the way.
I understand that thoseemotions are happening and I
will come back and take themindful approach as soon as I
have time for it, but right nowI am going to change my
perspective of reality andreframe to what is most helpful
in the situation.
I'm going to focus on my locusof control and do everything
(25:21):
that I can to get myself out ofthis crisis situation and then,
when I have the space, I cangive myself a break and give
myself permission to feel thoseemotions.
Depending on the situation, wecan choose either approach and
get through it with whichever ismore beneficial right in the
moment.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Wow, so well said.
So you have addressed bothforms of the small-scale
catastrophizing that we'vediscussed, both in the future
catastrophizing and because ofsomething that has already
happened.
Would you then advise people totake the stoic or mindful
(26:04):
approach for large-scalecatastrophizing as well, because
there's a lot of that goingaround right now?
Scale?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
catastrophizing as well, because there's a lot of
that going around right now.
For large scale catastrophizing, focus on your locus of control
.
If this big scale thing is outof your control, how much
worrying do you need to do tofix it?
If you do more worrying, if youspend more time catastrophizing
(26:32):
, are you going to solve theproblem?
Now?
Maybe, if you're in a positionof power where your locus of
control can actually do that,maybe you should spend some time
thinking about it.
But, as we said,catastrophizing probably isn't
the best approach.
But let's say you're not.
Is it helpful for all of theother things in your life to
(26:56):
spend a huge chunk of your timecatastrophizing on something
that you can't do anything about?
No, so what's the point ofdoing all of this extra
ruminating?
What's the point?
You're not.
You don't have agency here.
Focus on your locus.
I'm not saying ignoreeverything else, but you can
(27:20):
take control of your consciousperspective and focus on the
things that you can do to giveyourself a feeling of agency and
power when you feel powerlessfrom negative things that you
don't have control over.
So, yes, mindful stoicism, giveyourself the permission to feel
when you need to when thingshappen in your life that are out
(27:43):
of your control, but also takethe stoic approach when things
are out of your control.
Focus on your locus, takecontrol of your conscious
perspective of reality and breakdown what you need to do into
small, simple steps.
Catastrophizing often results inoverwhelm, so there's going to
(28:05):
be a huge overlap in thestrategies.
When we talked about overwhelm,we talked about mindfulness, we
talked about locus of controland we talked about small,
simple steps.
Well, if catastrophizing getsyou to overwhelm, then using the
things that get you out ofoverwhelm before you get to
overwhelm can also stop the sameprocess.
(28:28):
Overwhelm can also stop thesame process.
And because fear is often thedriver behind catastrophizing,
we can also utilize courage,which is one of the stoic
virtues.
Standing up for being brave andfacing your fears.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Being courageous is another way to handle
catastrophizing big and out ofmy control that I don't feel I
(29:12):
can actively change.
I'm not going to put a lot ofemotional investment into the
large scale things that arecausing me to catastrophize.
People have made the argumentof well, isn't that just apathy?
Isn't that just showing youaren't caring?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
So why don't you take on that role?
Let's say you're telling methat, right?
Yeah, my response to you wouldbe I think that's an interesting
point.
How much difference are youmaking in this large scale thing
by catastrophizing?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
None.
But what about if it'ssomething that has a big impact
on your life and it really doesmatter for your day-to-day life?
It's not something that'sfar-fetched or out of reach.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And how is catastrophizing helping fix it?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
This big scale thing happened.
It's having a negative effecton your life.
This big scale thing happened.
It's having a negative effecton your life, so give yourself
permission to feel the emotionsthat you feel about it.
(30:28):
You shouldn't be shamingyourself for thinking about
something outside of our locusof control.
It's not that black and white.
All I'm saying is, if you spendall of your waking time
worrying about things that youcan't and aren't actually doing
anything about, it's not thathelpful.
Now, if there are things inyour locus of control, even if
(30:49):
they're small, that can make adifference, then maybe you
should consider doing thosethings.
What I'm not advocating for islying to yourself about your
locus of control and tellingyourself that you have no
control when you actually do.
I'm not advocating for justpure apathy and indifference to
(31:11):
everything that you don't haveabsolute control over.
In fact, the Stoics believed inaccomplishing and doing hard
things.
Marcus Aurelius ruled an empire.
Abraham Lincoln started a warfor a civil war, for civil
rights.
The Stoics are about beinghonest with yourself, with your
(31:33):
locus of control, taking controlof that conscious perspective
and using it to do everything inyour power to solve those big,
hard problems.
Get creative, use more than oneor two-step thinking to find
ways to do something about it inyour locus of control.
(31:55):
Use courage, even if it mightbe hard.
Remember the obstacle is theway.
But maybe make what you'redoing and the time that you're
spending proportional to howmuch of a difference it can make
or that you can make.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
That's good advice, so make sure your thinking
aligns with the proportionalityof your control.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Making decisions based on catastrophizing and
pessimistic projections isgiving into fear.
It's not courage, it's notfinding what you can do in the
face of fear.
It's giving in to fear.
This is why we have toobjectively and realistically
(32:41):
look at situations and try anduse our critical thinking and
shades of gray to determinewhat's real and what has
happened and what is happeningin any given situation, so that
we're making rational andpragmatic, helpful decisions,
not just because we're feelingfear in the moment.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
All right.
So does that sum it up?
Is there anything else we cando to help us deal with
catastrophizing?
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Well, there's a little bit more that comes from
a slightly different approach.
The encouraging news is thatcatastrophizing is a habit.
It's a pattern and a thoughtthat we can change with practice
and by using some of the toolsthat I just talked about.
A couple other strategies thatwe can use is to develop
(33:30):
awareness.
The first step is thatrecognizing when you're slipping
into catastrophic thinkinghelps us bring ourselves back
out of it.
Notice those what-if thoughtsthat escalate small problems
into huge crises.
Once you're aware, you canbegin to challenge these
thoughts by asking is thisrealistic and the real worst
(33:53):
case scenario?
Another thing is utilizingcognitive behavioral therapy and
the techniques that it offers.
It has powerful tools that helpus reframe negative thoughts
Instead of letting a minorsetback spiral out of control.
Cbt teaches you to viewchallenges as opportunities and
(34:14):
obstacles to overcome, just likestoicism does.
Research by Cortana andcolleagues in 2009 supported the
effectiveness of this approach.
Their study found thatreframing catastrophic thoughts
not only reduced emotionaldistress, but also alleviated
physical pain.
(34:35):
Another helpful tool is to talkit out with somebody that you
know and trust.
Sometimes, sharing your worrieswith a trusted friend or family
member, or even your therapist,can provide a fresh perspective
.
Verbalizing your fears can helpdiminish their intensity and
remind you that many of yourconcerns are more imagined than
(34:55):
they are real.
And lastly, positiveaffirmation.
We can replace some of thesecatastrophic what-ifs with
positive what-ifs throughaffirmations that focus on our
strengths and our past successes.
To echo the wisdom of WilliamJames, the great weapon against
(35:16):
stress is our ability to chooseone thought over another.
The quote reminds us that wehave the agency to steer our
minds towards empowering andrealistic perspectives.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Similar to those small, simple steps that you
mentioned for bothcatastrophizing and overwhelm.
Something I've foundparticularly helpful when I'm
catastrophizing or overwhelmedwith something or when I have a
colleague or friend who'sexperiencing that, is to suggest
writing down each of the tasksor things you need to work
(35:50):
through into a list and thencategorizing them by what can be
taken care of now, or whatneeds to be done first and what
things can be taken care oflater, and then picking just one
of those things to focus on ata time.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Which makes it so much less overwhelming, and it
helps clear your brain of having12 million thoughts about it
going on at the same time.
So, to bring this all together,let's take a moment to reflect.
Catastrophizing is a commoncognitive trap, a way that our
minds try to protect us, but itoften backfires.
(36:33):
By understanding that it's alearned pattern influenced by
both biology and our environment, we can start to take these
active steps to change ournarrative.
When you catch yourself in acycle of catastrophic thoughts,
remember that you have choices.
You can allow these thoughts todominate your day or you can
(36:55):
gently challenge them and choosea more balanced perspective.
Whether it's through mindfulstoicism, rational optimism,
cognitive behavioral therapytechniques or simply talking
through it with someone whoknows and understands you, every
small step helps rewire yourthinking, and we've all been
(37:18):
there.
I've been there myself, caughtin the grip of catastrophic
thinking, where every smallsetback seems like an
insurmountable disaster.
But over time, learning torecognize these patterns and
actively challenge them throughour conscious perspective has
transformed how I viewchallenges and setbacks.
(37:40):
It's an ongoing journey, butevery effort to pause and
reframe my thoughts has made aprofound difference.
If you're struggling withcatastrophizing, know that
change is possible.
Embrace the journey withpatience and self-compassion.
Remember it's not abouteliminating worry entirely.
(38:03):
It's about creating a balancedperspective that allows you to
thrive even in the face ofuncertainty.
And remember you are enough andyou deserve to fill up your
inner cup with happiness,confidence and self-compassion.
(38:28):
Thank you for listening to theSage Solutions Podcast.
Your time is valuable and I'mso glad that you choose to learn
and grow here with me.
If you haven't already, don'tforget to subscribe so you don't
miss out on more Sage advice.
One last thing the legallanguage.
(38:58):
This podcast is for educationaland informational purposes only
.
No coaching client relationshipis formed.
It is not intended as asubstitute for the personalized
advice of a physician,professional coach,
psychotherapist or otherqualified professional.
Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk
about all things personalgrowth, personal development and
becoming your best self.
My name is David Sage and I ama self-worth and confidence
coach with Sage CoachingSolutions.
Today, I'm joined by my co-hostand sister, anna Sage.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Anna has more lived experience with the topic that
we're talking about today, soI'm going to let her introduce
it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Have you ever found yourself in a position where you
feel like you're spiraling?
You're spiraling.
Your thoughts are making youfeel overwhelmed and every angle
you look at just seems to beagainst you.
As you keep thinking, it justseems to get worse and worse and
worse and there seems to be noway out.
(00:58):
Well, if you're saying, yep,I've been there before, you're
not alone, because that used tobe me for a majority of my life,
when I would come across aproblem or when I was faced with
an obstacle.
That experience of negativethought spiraling is commonly
referred to as catastrophizing.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Before we get into it .
Our goal with this podcast isto share free, helpful tools
with you and anyone you know whois looking to improve their
life.
So take action, subscribe andshare this podcast with them.
The word catastrophizing comesfrom the word catastrophe, but
(01:45):
when you're catastrophizing,it's not creating a literal
catastrophe or a disaster thatwould make headlines.
We're talking about the innernarrative of catastrophic
thinking that can hold us back.
So let's explore whatcatastrophizing actually is, how
it takes place in our minds,why we're prone to it and, most
(02:09):
importantly, how we can overcomeit to live a more clear and
peaceful life.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
The people I work with today would probably be
pretty surprised to hear that Iused to be a habitual
catastrophizer that I used to bea habitual catastrophizer.
These days, I'm usually one ofthe first to recognize when
people are catastrophizing andsay, hey, hold on one second,
let's reframe that or let'sfocus on our locus and focus on
(02:36):
one step at a time.
But that's not something thatalways came naturally to me.
It's something that I've had tointentionally practice and
retrain my brain to thinkdifferently about and, honestly,
I'm not perfect, so there aredefinitely still times where I
find myself spiraling mentallyor catastrophizing.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And, frankly, no one is.
I'm not particularly prone tocatastrophizing, but I still do
it from time to time too, andit's because we, as humans,
evolved in a way thatcatastrophizing actually had
some beneficial use, but theworld that we live in today is
(03:21):
so different from the world thatwe lived in when it was
beneficial.
I don't want to get too into theweeds, though, before we
actually explain exactly whatcatastrophizing is.
Catastrophizing is a form ofcognitive distortion where we
exaggerate the likelihood or theimpact of negative events that
(03:43):
are either happening in our lifeor could happen in our life.
Instead of viewing challengesor setbacks as manageable, we
transform them in our minds intothese overwhelming disasters
that get worse and worse themore that we think about them.
An example would be if you makea small mistake at work, you
(04:05):
might instantly think this isgoing to ruin my career, and
then you start thinking aboutwell, where am I going to get
another job after they fire me?
And on and on and on, until youare homeless, living in a box,
and nobody likes you.
Obviously, this isn'trealistically what's going to
(04:27):
happen, but our minds still dothis exercise, regardless of
whether it's realistic or not.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
When I was a kid.
This would show up for me mostwhen I was feeling very insecure
in a social setting with mypeers.
If I'd make some sort of smallsocial faux pas, I would start
thinking, oh my gosh, noweverybody's laughing at me.
I'd think that other peoplearound me who are whispering oh,
they must be talking about meand thinking now they're going
(04:59):
to go and tell their friendsabout what happened.
And now the whole school'sgoing to know about what
happened.
And it was quite unrealistic.
But in my head it was justfeeding off of my fear that I
was unliked and not good enough.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Instead of seeing it as just one normal human mistake
, it became this grandiose,life-changing error that was
going to ruin the rest of yourschool life.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, I mean it does sound a little too dramatic the
way we're framing it, but Ithink realistically in my head
it was more like kids wouldn'tforget about it, like that
they'd carry it with them aboutme, but in the moment.
Yeah, in the moment though,like I didn't't think it was
like.
Now the whole school is going tobe talking about this small
(05:49):
thing I did, but it was more sonow.
That impact is going to staywith them about me and they're
never going to see me asanything but like oh that weird
kid, does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, because I think sometimes, when we are
explaining it as so extreme,people might not be able to
relate to it Like, well, I'venever thought of to the point
I'm going to be homeless.
But it doesn't always have tobe that extreme.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
No, you're right, and I was probably
over-exaggerating in the waythat I said it, because for some
people it might be that extreme.
For some people it might bethat extreme.
I was more just trying to getacross the fact that it would be
lasting, that this would have along-term negative impact.
That was way disproportionateto the reality.
Right, this pattern of thinkingis more common than you might
(06:37):
realize.
This pattern of thinking ismore common than you might
realize.
It's not about being overlypessimistic, however, pessimism
definitely makes it worse.
If you have a pessimisticoutlook, it is going to fuel
this.
It's like throwing extra gas onthe fire.
But it doesn't come frompessimism.
(06:58):
It's about the brain's naturaltendency to focus on potential
threats, about the brain'snatural tendency to focus on
potential threats, a habit thatonce helped our ancestors, like
I said before, to survive.
Figuring out the worst casescenario being programmed into
our brains, when it wasliterally life or death,
survival, could help us plan forthe worst case scenario.
(07:21):
People that planned for theworst case scenario tended to
survive the worst case scenario.
People that planned for theworst case scenario tended to
survive the worst case scenario.
The people that didn't died off.
But now, because we're notrunning away from tigers.
It can hinder our ability toenjoy the present moment.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
That makes a lot of sense and that resonates with me
.
I think little Anna, who had alot of insecurity of herself in
school settings, socially, wasintentionally trying to be aware
of the worst case scenario inadvance, thinking that at least
(08:04):
if I could prepare myself for itmentally, it wouldn't hurt so
bad if it happened in real life.
So although I was trying toprotect myself from pain,
rejection in the future, Ididn't realize at the time that
it was just preventing me frombeing at peace in the moment.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So why do we keep falling into this trap of
catastrophizing?
Well, for one, like I said, wehave that evolutionary wiring.
Our brains are hardwired todetect threats.
The ancient survival mechanismthat once kept us alive from
physical dangers often misfiresbecause the world that we live
(08:46):
in is so different than the onethat we used to live in.
We have this system fire as ifa tiger is chasing us or as if
something terrible is happeningin normal everyday life, causing
us to catastrophize and planfor survival in situations that
have nothing to do with survival.
(09:08):
It also becomes a learnedbehavior.
Over time, we might learn thatanticipating the worst can
occasionally help us prepare forthat failure, for example, by
thinking if I fail this project,everything will collapse.
We think that we might convinceourselves that we are getting
ready for the disaster, or evenpossibly trying to motivate
(09:31):
ourselves to not have it happen,even though this only actually
increases our anxiety.
Even though this only actuallyincreases our anxiety.
A study by Sullivan andcolleagues in 2001 found that
individuals who engage incatastrophizing tend to
experience higher levels of bothemotional distress and physical
pain.
The research highlighted thatthis type of thinking doesn't
(09:54):
just affect our mood.
It can also have tangibleeffects on our overall
well-being.
Additionally, our environmentplays a significant role.
Constant exposure tosensationalized negative news
and social media feeds thatemphasize the worst-case
scenarios can reinforce ourtendency to catastrophize.
(10:18):
This cultural backdrop can makeour fears seem not only
plausible but inevitable.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Reflecting on what you just said, I'm thinking of
catastrophizing in two differentways.
One would be like big worldcatastrophizing and then another
maybe like small worldcatastrophizing, and here's what
I mean by that, in my head atleast.
Big world catastrophizing wouldbe catastrophizing about things
(10:49):
that are beyond your ownpersonal actions and control,
like a new initiative or systembeing put in at your work that
is going to change up a lot ofthe world that you knew it.
In your position and your role,or even on a broader scale,
(11:12):
like a new presidency, you canactively control things that are
choices you need to make foryourself or a mistake that you
already made, that you're tryingto prevent yourself from being
hurt by making the wrong choiceor from having an awful impact
because of the choice youalready made.
(11:32):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, I think it's an interesting way of
conceptualizing it.
Let's dig a little more intothe small scale ones here for a
second.
You talked about making amistake and then catastrophizing
what you thought the effects ofthat mistake that you actively
(11:55):
made were.
But could you touch on thescenarios where you haven't made
a mistake yet and how thecatastrophizing into the future
happens in that smaller scalerealm?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah.
So I can think of one example.
When I was offered aninternship position for student
teaching, I had the choice oftwo different schools, two
different grade levels, and itfelt like a huge life choice,
even though, in the grand schemeof things, that wasn't going to
change the trajectory of mylife one way or the other.
(12:29):
It was either way going to be ateaching placement.
But anyways, when I was tryingto consider which placement
would be the best fit for me, Istarted putting a lot more
weight on the potentialnegatives of each placement and
the potential negatives of notchoosing the other placement.
(12:51):
Like, well, what if I choosethis placement and then I find
out that the other one wouldhave been the perfect fit for me
and I lose out on working withthat grade level because that
grade level would have been abetter fit?
Or what if the teacher at theother placement is a better
teacher that I could havelearned from and I now missed
the opportunity to learn fromsomebody who's excellent as
(13:13):
opposed to just somebody who'spretty good.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So it seems like one of the things that contributed
to your general indecisivenessbeing a weaker skill for you, as
you've said in previouspodcasts is because, when you
think about them, you're jumpinginto catastrophizing and that
also seems to come with someperfectionism and a ton of extra
(13:38):
pressure on having to make theperfect decision and then, by
catastrophizing and projectingthe worst possible situation on
both of them, you're making thechoice so much more pressured
and with so much more weightthat it makes it hard to make
the choice, because it feelslike it's life or death from the
catastrophizing right.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Right, and I do feel a little more removed from that,
since that was years ago.
I want to give a differentexample that could be more
relatable for those that aren'tin the education field and are
like, okay, yeah, that doesn'tmean anything to me Right now I
actually am actively trying toreframe my thinking around my
evaluation at my new job that iscoming up and I'm putting a lot
(14:21):
of weight on it because it doeshave big implications for me,
or it could, I guess.
I don't really know yet, but ifmy evaluation were to go really
well, maybe there could be apotential that I could get a
raise, and that has a big impacton my life and my well-being.
Now, while this is anotherexample of small-scale
(14:47):
catastrophizing, it's a littledifferent than the example I
gave earlier, where I was facedwith a choice and putting a lot
of weight on the negativepossibilities of each choice.
The reason I'm giving thisexample is twofold One, a lot of
people have evaluations intheir work and I think they
could relate to it, no matterwhat field they work in.
And two, I'm actively goingthrough it right now, so you can
even maybe give me some adviceof how to reframe as I'm
(15:12):
preparing for my evaluation.
Of course I'm doing everythingI can to be as prepared as
possible.
Of course I don't want to messit up.
However, if I'm nervous orsomething unexpected happens, it
might be a little bit out of mycontrol.
So my brain starts coming upwith all the possible small
things that could happen out ofmy control that could lead to my
(15:34):
evaluation going poorly andthat just makes me more anxious
about it, which makes it, I know, logically more likely to
happen that I'm going to messsomething up.
So how do I navigate my anxietysurrounding the pressure of
this to reframe mycatastrophizing so that I don't
(15:58):
end up messing it up for myself?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Before I tell you exactly how to handle your
specific situation, I want totalk about how we overcome
catastrophizing as a whole, andthen I will zone it into your
specific situation.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Sounds great.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Okay.
So catastrophizing comes from aculmination of a series of
different things that we'vetalked about in previous
episodes.
When you're catastrophizing,you're being overcome by fear.
It often spirals and createsanxiety and eventually leads to
the feeling of overwhelm.
(16:41):
When you have a scarcitymindset and you believe that
everything is a zero-sum gameand that there isn't enough for
everyone to go around, that candefinitely contribute to it.
If you're viewing things asblack and white, of course
you're going to blow things outof proportion, and if you're
(17:04):
setting yourself up for negativeexpectations, you're more
likely to actually have thosethings happen.
What we talked about in theepisode on expectations was that
it was best to hope for thebest, not to expect the best,
but also that expecting theworst actually made the worst
(17:26):
more likely to happen.
There's a fundamental flaw inthe logic behind catastrophizing
, especially when studiesactually show that
catastrophizing about somethingand then having it happen does
not actually make the pain ofhaving it happen any better.
You've actually built it up tobe an even bigger problem.
(17:50):
You've felt so much more painin the catastrophizing phase
than half of the time when itactually happens, and then, when
it actually happens, it hurtsjust as much, if not more.
When you ruminate on somethinglike that and you are
catastrophizing, having thisscarcity mindset, the fear is
(18:13):
overwhelming you and you havenegative expectations.
You're often not even doing anyplanning that's productive or
helpful.
You're just repeatedly beatingyourself up as if this terrible
thing is happening to you now.
You're putting yourself throughpain that might not even happen
and, as we just discussed,you're not reducing the pain if
(18:35):
it does.
This is why taking the approachof pessimism and also cynicism
doesn't actually help you orprepare you for the situation to
be any better.
Catastrophizing and puttingyourself in a state of
hopelessness is never helpful.
Hopelessness helps no one.
(18:57):
You want hope.
Otherwise, you're going to justfeel defeated and give up.
This is the big differencebetween worrying about something
and planning for it, aboutsomething and planning for it.
So, instead of resorting topessimism and catastrophizing
(19:17):
and setting negativeexpectations, I'm going to make
the argument for the oppositeoptimism.
Now, I understand it's easiersaid than done.
Just saying hey, don't worryisn't actually that productive.
But it's important tounderstand that worrying isn't
benefiting you.
So don't trick yourself intobelieving that you're helping.
(19:39):
What I'm advocating for is whatI'm calling rational or
realistic optimism.
This is where we do actuallyidentify realistic things that
could go wrong.
But we have to be realistic.
We're using shades of graythinking here to be realistic
(19:59):
and rational about what could gowrong and then actually
building a plan to make surethat those things don't go wrong
.
Those things don't go wrong,then we're hoping for the best
and taking an optimistic outlookbecause we know that we've
already planned for the thingsthat could go wrong, which means
that the situation is morelikely to go right.
(20:22):
Therefore, why not hope for thebest and help make it happen?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Rational optimism Well, hearing you say that I
might have actually alreadyanswered my own question, Can I
share my thinking?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
So I already have a lot of the skills I need to to
be able to recognize when I'mdoing something unhelpful, like
catastrophizing or focusing onthe negatives.
It's just a matter of taking astep back and remembering the
tools I have and the things thatare helpful, to be able to
practice and reframe.
Now that I've been listening toyou and reflecting on it, I
(21:02):
already know what I need to dowhen I have my evaluation.
If I make a mistake, I mix upmy words or I switch up the
order of the lesson that I'mgoing through that I've planned
out well and thoroughly inadvance, or I miss a part of it.
Well, you know what I mightstop and use that as a learning
(21:22):
opportunity for my students,because that's still going to
reflect well on me for mysupervisor to see that I say you
know what.
Even adults make mistakes too,and that's okay.
We can be flexible, we canshift.
Let's go ahead and get intowhat it should be, because
that's just as valuable.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I couldn't agree with you more.
I think that that's a reallygood evaluation of how you can
handle your current situation,but let's remember that your
current situation is one offuture prediction.
We talked about howcatastrophizing happens in
multiple different situations.
One of those situations is whenyou are worried about the
(22:02):
outcomes of something in thefuture, whether it be a decision
or something going wrong.
Another is what happens whenyou just did something, made a
mistake, and now you arecatastrophizing about the
outcomes that will come of that.
The approaches that we have totake are a bit different.
(22:23):
Rational optimism is stillhelpful there, and I will be
doing an episode on it in thefuture.
But I want to talk about theother half, or the flip side,
which is a combination of twodifferent podcasts that we did
in the past, if not more MindfulStoicism, combining the
(22:46):
practices of mindfulness andStoicism.
They might seem like they'resomewhat opposed, but that's the
power of mindfulness andstoicism.
They might seem like they'resomewhat opposed, but that's the
power of it Leaning intowhichever strategy makes more
sense at the time, using ashades of gray approach and
either taking the mindfulapproach or the stoic approach,
(23:07):
based on what is most helpful inthe moment.
These include things likegiving yourself self-compassion
when you screw something up.
Having self-compassion insteadof beating yourself up and
shaming yourself is going to bemuch more productive.
Being mindful and taking abreak to either breathe or walk
(23:28):
or meditate, or many otherthings that we could do using
mindfulness to remove ourselvesfrom that situation.
We are using mindfulness tobring ourselves and our
awareness to the present momentand away from spiraling or
catastrophizing about thepossible implications or the
(23:49):
future.
We can also redirect ourattention to things like
gratitude and the things thatwe're grateful for.
It's hard to spiral while we'retruly feeling grateful.
But beyond just focusing on ourbreath or taking a mindful walk
, mindfulness also gives us thetools to actually be present
(24:13):
with and give ourselves thepermission to feel our emotions
instead of suppressing them,which actually helps us be more
resilient and get through thatsituation.
Now, depending on the situationand the urgency of the matter,
it might actually be moreeffective to take the stoic
approach.
(24:34):
If you're in a crisis situation,you might not have time to give
yourself permission to feel.
You might need to take thestoic approach of I have to shut
those down for a second and setthose emotions aside to get
myself out of this crisis and beas logical as I can.
I need to focus on theimmediate obstacle or problem in
(24:57):
front of me, and so theobstacle becomes the way.
I understand that thoseemotions are happening and I
will come back and take themindful approach as soon as I
have time for it, but right nowI am going to change my
perspective of reality andreframe to what is most helpful
in the situation.
I'm going to focus on my locusof control and do everything
(25:21):
that I can to get myself out ofthis crisis situation and then,
when I have the space, I cangive myself a break and give
myself permission to feel thoseemotions.
Depending on the situation, wecan choose either approach and
get through it with whichever ismore beneficial right in the
moment.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Wow, so well said.
So you have addressed bothforms of the small-scale
catastrophizing that we'vediscussed, both in the future
catastrophizing and because ofsomething that has already
happened.
Would you then advise people totake the stoic or mindful
(26:04):
approach for large-scalecatastrophizing as well, because
there's a lot of that goingaround right now?
Scale?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
catastrophizing as well, because there's a lot of
that going around right now.
For large scale catastrophizing, focus on your locus of control
.
If this big scale thing is outof your control, how much
worrying do you need to do tofix it?
If you do more worrying, if youspend more time catastrophizing
(26:32):
, are you going to solve theproblem?
Now?
Maybe, if you're in a positionof power where your locus of
control can actually do that,maybe you should spend some time
thinking about it.
But, as we said,catastrophizing probably isn't
the best approach.
But let's say you're not.
Is it helpful for all of theother things in your life to
(26:56):
spend a huge chunk of your timecatastrophizing on something
that you can't do anything about?
No, so what's the point ofdoing all of this extra
ruminating?
What's the point?
You're not.
You don't have agency here.
Focus on your locus.
I'm not saying ignoreeverything else, but you can
(27:20):
take control of your consciousperspective and focus on the
things that you can do to giveyourself a feeling of agency and
power when you feel powerlessfrom negative things that you
don't have control over.
So, yes, mindful stoicism, giveyourself the permission to feel
when you need to when thingshappen in your life that are out
(27:43):
of your control, but also takethe stoic approach when things
are out of your control.
Focus on your locus, takecontrol of your conscious
perspective of reality and breakdown what you need to do into
small, simple steps.
Catastrophizing often results inoverwhelm, so there's going to
(28:05):
be a huge overlap in thestrategies.
When we talked about overwhelm,we talked about mindfulness, we
talked about locus of controland we talked about small,
simple steps.
Well, if catastrophizing getsyou to overwhelm, then using the
things that get you out ofoverwhelm before you get to
overwhelm can also stop the sameprocess.
(28:28):
Overwhelm can also stop thesame process.
And because fear is often thedriver behind catastrophizing,
we can also utilize courage,which is one of the stoic
virtues.
Standing up for being brave andfacing your fears.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Being courageous is another way to handle
catastrophizing big and out ofmy control that I don't feel I
(29:12):
can actively change.
I'm not going to put a lot ofemotional investment into the
large scale things that arecausing me to catastrophize.
People have made the argumentof well, isn't that just apathy?
Isn't that just showing youaren't caring?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
So why don't you take on that role?
Let's say you're telling methat, right?
Yeah, my response to you wouldbe I think that's an interesting
point.
How much difference are youmaking in this large scale thing
by catastrophizing?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
None.
But what about if it'ssomething that has a big impact
on your life and it really doesmatter for your day-to-day life?
It's not something that'sfar-fetched or out of reach.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And how is catastrophizing helping fix it?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
This big scale thing happened.
It's having a negative effecton your life.
This big scale thing happened.
It's having a negative effecton your life, so give yourself
permission to feel the emotionsthat you feel about it.
(30:28):
You shouldn't be shamingyourself for thinking about
something outside of our locusof control.
It's not that black and white.
All I'm saying is, if you spendall of your waking time
worrying about things that youcan't and aren't actually doing
anything about, it's not thathelpful.
Now, if there are things inyour locus of control, even if
(30:49):
they're small, that can make adifference, then maybe you
should consider doing thosethings.
What I'm not advocating for islying to yourself about your
locus of control and tellingyourself that you have no
control when you actually do.
I'm not advocating for justpure apathy and indifference to
(31:11):
everything that you don't haveabsolute control over.
In fact, the Stoics believed inaccomplishing and doing hard
things.
Marcus Aurelius ruled an empire.
Abraham Lincoln started a warfor a civil war, for civil
rights.
The Stoics are about beinghonest with yourself, with your
(31:33):
locus of control, taking controlof that conscious perspective
and using it to do everything inyour power to solve those big,
hard problems.
Get creative, use more than oneor two-step thinking to find
ways to do something about it inyour locus of control.
(31:55):
Use courage, even if it mightbe hard.
Remember the obstacle is theway.
But maybe make what you'redoing and the time that you're
spending proportional to howmuch of a difference it can make
or that you can make.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
That's good advice, so make sure your thinking
aligns with the proportionalityof your control.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Making decisions based on catastrophizing and
pessimistic projections isgiving into fear.
It's not courage, it's notfinding what you can do in the
face of fear.
It's giving in to fear.
This is why we have toobjectively and realistically
(32:41):
look at situations and try anduse our critical thinking and
shades of gray to determinewhat's real and what has
happened and what is happeningin any given situation, so that
we're making rational andpragmatic, helpful decisions,
not just because we're feelingfear in the moment.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
All right.
So does that sum it up?
Is there anything else we cando to help us deal with
catastrophizing?
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Well, there's a little bit more that comes from
a slightly different approach.
The encouraging news is thatcatastrophizing is a habit.
It's a pattern and a thoughtthat we can change with practice
and by using some of the toolsthat I just talked about.
A couple other strategies thatwe can use is to develop
(33:30):
awareness.
The first step is thatrecognizing when you're slipping
into catastrophic thinkinghelps us bring ourselves back
out of it.
Notice those what-if thoughtsthat escalate small problems
into huge crises.
Once you're aware, you canbegin to challenge these
thoughts by asking is thisrealistic and the real worst
(33:53):
case scenario?
Another thing is utilizingcognitive behavioral therapy and
the techniques that it offers.
It has powerful tools that helpus reframe negative thoughts
Instead of letting a minorsetback spiral out of control.
Cbt teaches you to viewchallenges as opportunities and
(34:14):
obstacles to overcome, just likestoicism does.
Research by Cortana andcolleagues in 2009 supported the
effectiveness of this approach.
Their study found thatreframing catastrophic thoughts
not only reduced emotionaldistress, but also alleviated
physical pain.
(34:35):
Another helpful tool is to talkit out with somebody that you
know and trust.
Sometimes, sharing your worrieswith a trusted friend or family
member, or even your therapist,can provide a fresh perspective
.
Verbalizing your fears can helpdiminish their intensity and
remind you that many of yourconcerns are more imagined than
(34:55):
they are real.
And lastly, positiveaffirmation.
We can replace some of thesecatastrophic what-ifs with
positive what-ifs throughaffirmations that focus on our
strengths and our past successes.
To echo the wisdom of WilliamJames, the great weapon against
(35:16):
stress is our ability to chooseone thought over another.
The quote reminds us that wehave the agency to steer our
minds towards empowering andrealistic perspectives.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Similar to those small, simple steps that you
mentioned for bothcatastrophizing and overwhelm.
Something I've foundparticularly helpful when I'm
catastrophizing or overwhelmedwith something or when I have a
colleague or friend who'sexperiencing that, is to suggest
writing down each of the tasksor things you need to work
(35:50):
through into a list and thencategorizing them by what can be
taken care of now, or whatneeds to be done first and what
things can be taken care oflater, and then picking just one
of those things to focus on ata time.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Which makes it so much less overwhelming, and it
helps clear your brain of having12 million thoughts about it
going on at the same time.
So, to bring this all together,let's take a moment to reflect.
Catastrophizing is a commoncognitive trap, a way that our
minds try to protect us, but itoften backfires.
(36:33):
By understanding that it's alearned pattern influenced by
both biology and our environment, we can start to take these
active steps to change ournarrative.
When you catch yourself in acycle of catastrophic thoughts,
remember that you have choices.
You can allow these thoughts todominate your day or you can
(36:55):
gently challenge them and choosea more balanced perspective.
Whether it's through mindfulstoicism, rational optimism,
cognitive behavioral therapytechniques or simply talking
through it with someone whoknows and understands you, every
small step helps rewire yourthinking, and we've all been
(37:18):
there.
I've been there myself, caughtin the grip of catastrophic
thinking, where every smallsetback seems like an
insurmountable disaster.
But over time, learning torecognize these patterns and
actively challenge them throughour conscious perspective has
transformed how I viewchallenges and setbacks.
(37:40):
It's an ongoing journey, butevery effort to pause and
reframe my thoughts has made aprofound difference.
If you're struggling withcatastrophizing, know that
change is possible.
Embrace the journey withpatience and self-compassion.
Remember it's not abouteliminating worry entirely.
(38:03):
It's about creating a balancedperspective that allows you to
thrive even in the face ofuncertainty.
And remember you are enough andyou deserve to fill up your
inner cup with happiness,confidence and self-compassion.
(38:28):
Thank you for listening to theSage Solutions Podcast.
Your time is valuable and I'mso glad that you choose to learn
and grow here with me.
If you haven't already, don'tforget to subscribe so you don't
miss out on more Sage advice.
One last thing the legallanguage.
(38:58):
This podcast is for educationaland informational purposes only
.
No coaching client relationshipis formed.
It is not intended as asubstitute for the personalized
advice of a physician,professional coach,
psychotherapist or otherqualified professional.
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