June 10, 2025 • 43 mins
This episode is Part 2 of our conversation with John Azzolina.
When faced with a terminal cancer diagnosis, what truly matters in life comes into crystal-clear focus. In this powerful continuation of his conversation with his stepfather John, David Sage delves deeper into the emotional and psychological journey of living with stage four liver cancer.
John's remarkable evolution from anger to acceptance offers profound insights for anyone facing life's challenges. "Three months ago I wouldn't be able to be sitting here," John admits, describing his initial struggle with frustration and depression. What follows is an extraordinary account of personal transformation, as John shares how support from family, renewed faith, and a shift in perspective helped him find peace with his diagnosis.
The conversation tackles difficult yet universal themes: the fragility of health, the weight of mortality, and our natural tendency to postpone authentic living. John's candid reflections challenge us to examine our priorities before crisis forces our hand: "All that matters is the relationships that we build with the people that we care about. It's not the money, it's not the cars... I'd give it all up just to have more time."
Perhaps most illuminating is John's perspective on how cancer patients are often treated. Well-intentioned protection from loved ones can inadvertently make patients feel powerless. "Everyone treats you differently," John explains, offering valuable guidance for supporting someone through serious illness while preserving their dignity and autonomy.
This episode serves as both a heartbreaking testimony and a life-affirming call to action. John's journey reminds us that taking care of our health isn't just self-preservation—it's an act of love toward those who care about us. His powerful question lingers: "Why did it take such a profound situation for me to become who I am now?"
Listen, reflect, and consider how you might apply these hard-earned insights to your own life, without waiting for crisis to show you what matters most.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk
about all things personalgrowth, personal development and
becoming your best self.
My name is David Sage and I ama self-worth and confidence
coach with Sage CoachingSolutions solutions.
This episode is part two of myconversation with my stepfather,
(00:28):
john Ezelina, about histerminal cancer diagnosis, his
life and his mindset.
If you haven't had a chance tolisten to part one, I strongly
recommend that you go back andlisten to part one before you
start this episode, part two,where we focus more on the
(00:49):
realizations and mindsets thatJohn has come to and had.
Also, depending on yoursituation, this may be a very
triggering episode for somebodywho is either going through
cancer or had a close loved onego through cancer.
So if you don't feel likeyou're in a place to listen to
this episode right now, that'stotally okay.
(01:11):
In our first episode, weinterviewed my stepfather, john,
and talked to him about thefactual medical timeline and the
cancer journey that he's beenon, finding out that he had
stage four terminal cancer andall of the events following that
.
We also talked about John'slife before the cancer and many
(01:33):
of the pivotal events or choicesthat he made that led him to
become the incredible personthat he is today.
Before we get into it, our goalwith this podcast is to share
free, helpful tools with you andanyone you know who is looking
to improve their life.
So take action, subscribe andshare this podcast with them.
(02:05):
John, as you were living throughall of these different ups and
downs, the roller coaster ofthis battle with cancer, I think
it's really important that wetouch on some of the non-cancer
events that happened all aroundthe same time.
We kind of hit a point whereyou me, Hannah Anna, hannah Anna
(02:29):
, my mom we would just look ateach other, shake our heads and,
with a sad chuckle, just saywhen it rains, it pours, because
each new thing that kepthappening really poured it on.
I'd like you to touch on theevents that happened surrounding
Avi or Avalon, your cat, andFowler, your dog, and how the
unfortunate timing made thiswhole situation that much harder
(02:56):
.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Absolutely.
Avi and Fowler are our pets.
Avi's, our little cat Fowler weadopted during the pandemic.
While I was in the hospital,laura kept me updated with the
situation with the animals andhow they were dealing with
everything, and obviously theymissed me.
Taking it a step further, abouta year prior to my diagnosis
(03:22):
maybe even longer, I'm notexactly sure Fowler started
losing weight.
He was diagnosed with kidneydisease.
They gave him maybe a year andhe went about a year.
It was tough but he kept hisspirits high.
I was hoping I would bereleased soon enough where I
(03:43):
could at least say goodbye.
Unfortunately that did nothappen, so Laura had to put him
down when I was in the hospital.
That was difficult on all of us.
I know it was particularlydifficult on your mom.
She bonded with Fowler andFowler obviously bonded with
your mom.
The cat had more of a bond withme.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
She definitely, definitely struggled with it.
I actually stayed in the roomwith her when they put him down
and both of us were strugglingwith how frustrating it must
have been that you weren't ableto be there.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It was extremely frustrating.
It was frustrating not beingthere saying my last goodbyes to
him, but a lot of thefrustration came from the fact
that I felt helpless.
I wasn't able to be there foryour mom.
She was there for me and stillis.
She was there for the animalsand everyone, but the one time
(04:41):
that she needed me, I was unableto be there for her.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
And obviously it was out of your control.
But the one time that sheneeded me I was unable to be
there for her, and obviously itwas out of your control.
You know that wasn't somethingthat you had a choice in and we
all know that if there was anyway you could have been there,
you would have One.
I guess bright side is thatafter you were released from the
hospital, abby, your guy'sadorable little cat, was glued
(05:18):
to you at the hip, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I was fortunate enough to have a little time
with her before she passed.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
They think maybe it was leukemia and about how long
after you got released was this?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
probably a month and a half.
Uh, she, we had to put avi down.
November 4th, your mom adoptedlaura, adopted avi and it was
her cat.
For the most part, she wasalways your mom's cat, but 2019,
we had to put my chocolate labdown and I would describe Abby's
(05:55):
relationship with my chocolatelab as the brother and sister
that loved each other in abrotherly-sister kind of way.
The relationship Abby had withFowler was oh no, this is my
domain, you just are lucky to behere.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's very true.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, when JD died I think we were both grieving and
she clung to me and we developedquite the strong bond.
I never thought I was going tobe a cat person I really never
was but she became my littlegirl.
I miss her.
(06:37):
I miss all our animals.
We had amazing animals and Iwas fortunate enough to have
them in my life and I know thatthe time I had with her after
the hospital was amazing for meat least.
She clung to me.
(06:58):
I was home more often so shejust hunkered down on my lap as
long as she could and that wasit.
I mean, I think we stillstruggle to this day.
Your mom had brought up onceadopting again, but I don't know
if we're in the situation andeverything that we're dealing
(07:21):
with, where that would be a goodidea.
There's times that I'vecontemplated that and thought
about bringing it up to her, butthen I think about it and that
would just be another thing oneveryone's plate that I don't
know if we can deal with rightnow.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Which is totally understandable, understandable.
I'd like to dive into yourexperiences, your mindset, what
led you to this point and maybeany lessons that you might have
surrounding this, and we canstart wherever you'd like.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Thank you, david.
Three months ago I wouldn't beable to be sitting here being on
this podcast.
I was not in the mental statethat I needed to be or wanted to
be.
My friends and everyone thatknows me and knows me well knew
I was masked and everything Iwould say, oh, I'm fine.
But I wasn't.
I had some built-up anger,frustration, quite a bit of
(08:23):
anger, to be honest with you,not that.
Oh, why did this happen to me?
I had to do some looking atmyself in the mirror and, yeah,
it sucks that I developedterminal liver cancer, but some
of it's on me.
For a part of my adult life well, most of my adult life I smoked
(08:45):
, I drank.
I never thought I drank much.
During the pandemic I had onecocktail an evening.
Why, I don't know, can't figurethat out.
But my mindset was not where itneeded to be.
It was not just affecting me ona daily basis, it was affecting
the most important people in mylife Laura, david, hannah, anna
(09:09):
, my mom, my brother, my uncle.
They saw what I was goingthrough, especially Laura,
because she's with me all thetime.
She put on that strong face and, oh, it's okay, because some of
my frustration would be notdirected towards her, but she
was in the vicinity of it.
I also didn't want cancer todefine me, meaning oh, he was a
(09:35):
great guy and he got cancer andhe became an asshole.
It's not the way I wanted to beportrayed by my loved ones and
everyone else that knew me.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I wanted to be portrayed by my loved ones and
everyone else that knew me Well.
And John, I do want to say thisyour life changed and your
future surrounding your lifechanged quite a bit, and I'm
really happy that you're in theheadspace that you're in now.
(10:06):
Really, I wanted nothing morethan that.
But I also don't fault you forwhere you were at and I don't
think you should fault yourselffor that either.
You know you were dealing withstages of grief.
Whether they were in the presetorder that they talk about, we
(10:26):
don't need to get into thespecifics of that.
But frankly, so many areas ofyour life and your future were
changing simultaneously thatit's totally understandable that
your brain, your body, yourspirit would need to take time
to process that in differentways, to grieve what you are
(10:50):
losing and to find a way forward.
It's very rare for somebody togo through a grieving process
without anger.
It's basically an essentialstep.
It's a part of the process thatyou can't really skip.
It's just about when it happens.
So I'm not telling you how tolive your life or anything.
(11:14):
I just do think that youdeserve grace for going through
the steps in the way that youneeded to.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I really appreciate you saying that, david, but
looking back, it was more thanthat.
It was affecting everyone elseyou, your mom.
My depression made them I mean,I know how much you guys care
about me and it was affectingthem on a daily basis and I
(11:44):
didn't want that and also Ididn't want cancer to for lack
of better terms define me.
I'm trying not to let myremaining time be controlled by
this disease and I'm not sayingit doesn't affect me because it
(12:06):
does, but I don't want.
I don't want it to affect me inthe most negative ways, cause I
saw what it was doing firsthandto your mom.
Uh, she was.
My depression made herdepressed.
She is one of the strongestpeople and woman I've ever met
and I couldn't be going throughthis without her.
Um, people and woman I've evermet and I couldn't be going
(12:27):
through this without her.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I didn't want my situation to make her depressed.
I think it's very insightful ofyou to have reflected so
heavily on how your situationwas also affecting the people
that you love, but I also don'tthink it was your intention to
hurt anyone with it.
I think what you're goingthrough is something I can't
(12:55):
even fathom.
I can try and empathize to thebest of my ability and to some
degree I'm going through itbecause of my feelings towards
you and how much I love you, butI'm not saying that just to
make you feel better.
I honestly never really faultedyou for being in the headspace
(13:17):
that you were in, becauseaccepting something like that a
terminal cancer diagnosis out ofnowhere and all of the changes
that come with that is somethingthat very few people listening
to this truly understand theweight of, if any, and I
(13:37):
genuinely think that theintention matters too.
I don't believe that at anypoint it was your intention to
hurt anyone around you.
I just think you had really bigfeelings, emotions surrounding
it and unfortunately it wascausing some collateral damage
(13:58):
and I think once you becamefully aware of that collateral
damage, you made a decision andsince you've made that decision,
you've stuck with it and forthat being able to have the
mindset that you have now in thesituation that you're in is
something that I'm bothincredibly impressed with and
(14:22):
very proud of.
So I want you to know that I'mproud of you and and I love you
and we're going to get throughthis together, and I brought you
on here because I know that youhave a lot of value to provide
to the people listening to this.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So I do appreciate you saying that, david.
I needed to get out of thatmindset because I was grieving
inside and since then I'm in abetter place.
And how I got there?
It wasn't easy.
I contribute my mindset changeto a few factors.
(15:02):
One, hannah on her days off shetakes the time to come over and
listen to that, tuesdays withMaury audiobook with me,
spending time with me, davidwhen he's available, coming with
Anna and listening to thispodcast.
And then David's sister, annaone day she had asked me to go
(15:27):
to church with her.
I know along the road I lost myway in faith and your sisters
brought that back into my lifeand it's helped.
It may not be for everyone, butit's really helped me to come
to peace with everything.
I'm not going to sit here anddive into the whole religion
(15:50):
thing or whatnot.
In this particular church whereI go, it works for me.
It's been good for me.
I've gone every Sunday now forover two months.
The support system that I haveLaura, my family, my friends
keep me grounded.
I have a small village behindme and I'm fortunate that way.
(16:13):
If it wasn't for the smallvillage, hannah, david and
everyone I wouldn't be sittinghere on this podcast, talking to
you guys.
It's really transformed on howI conduct my daily life and how
(16:33):
I look at things.
I mean I'm not going to be ableto change my situation, my
health.
I can only make the best ofwhat is dealt Nowadays.
I enjoy the little things wakingup in the morning Okay, I got
another day Spending time withall my loved ones, my family, my
friends.
So I just enjoy the littlethings and try to go as far as I
(16:56):
can.
I think the worst thing thatthe doctors did is put a
timeline on my life, because nowI'm out to prove them wrong and
I'm going to do everything Ican.
It's'm out to prove them wrongand I'm going to do everything I
can.
It's not just to prove themwrong, it's also for me.
I want a little more time witheveryone.
I've been fortunate enough toenjoy life and everything that
(17:21):
goes along with it.
I do want to simply touch onone thing.
I'm not here to preach toanyone, but don't get caught up
on the material things in thisworld the house, the cars, the
money, whatnot Can't take itwith you.
Enjoy the things that trulymatter, the people that we
(17:46):
engage with.
Those are what really matters,because now, god in the house,
the car, whatever, doesn't meananything to me.
I just want more time withthese people.
I'm going to leave it at that.
Thank you for everything.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Wow, wow.
There was just a lot of valuethere.
There was so much wisdom andpractical experience from the
situation that you're in.
It sounds like You've come to aplace of simultaneous
(18:29):
acceptance and at least somelevel of peace, especially
compared to where your mindsetwas before.
And this simultaneous drivelike a fight.
You know where you're acceptingthe reality of your situation,
(18:56):
making the most of the time thatyou have, but not just laying
down and letting it happen Likethere's still a fight in you,
because not only do you want tomake the most of the time that
you have, but you want to makethe most time to have it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, I've come to accept everything for what it is
.
I mean, when you're dying, youhave to accept the situation for
what it is, because if youdon't, honestly it's going to
eat you alive.
I've encountered way too manypeople right now who have cancer
.
Your attitude is going to go along way.
If you try to portray positiveattitude, it's going to work in
(19:32):
your favor.
From a physical standpoint, thecancer is always going to be
there.
There's certain things that wecan do to minimize that.
Unfortunately, my situation is alot more difficult from the
outside.
As I said earlier, I'm thehealthiest dying person you guys
will probably ever hear orencounter.
Yeah, I'm.
(19:52):
I've accepted everything forwhat it is and, like I said,
some of that acceptance I had todo from a standpoint of I had
to look in the mirror and takesome responsibility for the
situation.
Would things be different ifmaybe I would have gone to the
doctor more?
Maybe Part of the reason I saythat is David couldn't attest.
(20:13):
They said that the tumors haveprobably been in me for about
five years, so could things havebeen different?
Possibly, do your dailycheckups everyone.
Maybe I would be in a differentsituation.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, actually I do want to double click on this
because you and I have had someconversations surrounding this
and I know earlier you said Idon't want to preach.
But frankly, john, it's myopinion, at least on this
podcast, that you're in aspecial position to preach.
I don't necessarily meanreligion.
We do tend to keep this podcasta religious and a political.
(20:50):
But, um, any lessons or thingsthat you've learned or things
that, based on your experience,uh, you want to stress to people
, feel free to do it here.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
The one thing I do want to say.
I've heard it from other peoplewho are in situations similar
and they're dying, or the oldman sitting in the hospital and
he doesn't have much time left.
My advice is take care of yourhealth while you can.
(21:25):
I know it's a broad statement,but everyone always says that,
even in the movies you hear, oh,you know should have taken
better care of myself, and I dowish I would have.
From the outside, I looked likeyour healthiest individual that
you have ever met, but I didn'trealize until last year how bad
(21:47):
the situation was, whether thatbe the smoking, the drinking,
the, you know, more exercise,your checkups with your regular
doctor.
I recommend doing it all, notfor me, not for yourself, but
for the people around you thatcare about you, but for the
people around you that careabout you because they're
(22:08):
invested in this as well as youare, if not more, sometimes.
So I'm going to end this hereto tell everyone do what's best
for yourself and your health,because at the end of the day,
as I stated earlier, the moneywill come and go, the house will
come and go.
You can't take that with you.
The only thing that matters tome anymore is the time that I
(22:30):
have with everyone, and if youwant more time, I suggest taking
care of yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
No, it's good advice and it's from a perspective that
most people don't think about.
I haven't really thought aboutthe aspect of taking care of
your health as something that'sa kindness to your loved ones.
It's actually a really uniqueperspective and I'm going to
have to do more thinking aboutand reflecting on that.
I also want to go a littledeeper on this difference in
(23:02):
mindset shift.
I think you covered it prettywell, but I think there's two
different conclusions thatpeople can come to as a dying
person and honestly, that'soversimplifying it.
I'm not being shades of grayenough here, but to some degree
there's two common ones thatemerge.
One of them is I'm going to die, so what's the point?
(23:26):
And the other is I'm going todie, so every second is precious
.
And, logically speaking,depending on your mindset,
depending on your thinking, theyboth make some sense, but one
of them seems like a much betteroption, in my opinion, like a
much more fulfilling option,whereas the first one doesn't
(23:50):
really help you, it doesn'treally accomplish much.
It's a very nihilistic way oflooking at it.
Just because you're dying, itdoesn't mean that nothing
matters, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
In regards to the first aspect that you said about
dying, oh, I'm going to die.
Let me tell you that's the wayI felt and, to be honest with
you, I think that it's.
They're masking their truefeelings.
They're scared, as I think mostpeople are.
I would catch myself saying, oh, it doesn't matter, you know
(24:24):
we're all going to die.
You know, once the doctors andmedical professionals put a
timeline on your life, itbecomes real, becomes real real
quick.
Believe me, that changes yourmindset real quick.
Because I was that person andpart of that was, I think, I was
scared, but I also I wanted toportray this larger-than-life
(24:47):
persona about okay, you know,nothing's going to hurt me or
whatever, you know nothing'sgoing to stop me.
And for the most part, I thinkI portrayed that persona quite
well.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I would agree.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
But it was wrong.
I mean, deep down inside,looking back now, I was scared.
I think we all are, whether wewant to admit it or not.
That's two different things.
Now you can ask me anything.
I'm not going to lie In thesituation I'm in.
(25:23):
There's no reason for me tomask any of my true feelings
about any situation or any topic.
So if you want whatever realanswer, come and talk to me.
I'll give it to you straight,believe me.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
That's one thing that I really admire about you, even
before, but I think especiallynow admire about you even before
, but I think especially now youare willing to give it to
people straight, but especiallynow you're willing to say things
even if they're uncomfortableto say, to be vulnerable, to be
real with people and I think ina way, that's kind of a
(26:07):
superpower that you've gainedfrom this whole experience.
I'm not trying to be this blindoptimist in what I'm about to
say.
I wouldn't wish going throughwhat you're going through on
anyone, but that doesn't meanthat no good can come from it.
But that doesn't mean that nogood can come from it.
(26:31):
And through some of theconversations that we've had,
you've alluded to the fact thatyou actually feel like, with
this new mindset, you're an evenbetter version of yourself than
you were before.
I think there's been a littlebit of a theme throughout this
podcast of talking about how,while pain is real and objective
(26:51):
and hard, it's also unescapable.
We're all going to have pain inour life at different points in
our life, from different thingsin our life, and we can't just
avoid all pain because A it'simpossible, just avoid all pain
(27:12):
because a it's impossible and b.
Working through the pain cancause some of our most
significant growth as humanbeings.
Would you be willing to talkabout some of the growth that
you feel you've had from goingthrough such a painful yet
unique experience?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Absolutely.
I didn't know we were going togo here, but it's fine.
This is going to be a littledifficult for me, so I don't
think I was a bad person beforemy diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I'm going to stop right there for a second and say
I wholeheartedly don't thinkyou were a bad person for a
second and say I wholeheartedlydon't think you were a bad
person.
I think you were a good personthat I love and has been a very
helpful person in my life.
But you were also human, justlike the rest of us, and we all
make mistakes, and I think it'simportant that you give yourself
(28:03):
some self-compassion hereBecause, like I said, what
you're going through right nowcomes with unique insights that
some people may never havewithout going through the
experiences that you have.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Thank you for all that, david.
I appreciate it.
As I was saying, I don't thinkI was a bad person.
In my growth here, in mymindset change and how I'm
dealing with everything, I thinkI'm a better person now than I
was before.
As David alluded to, I'm morein touch with my feelings, not
(28:43):
just with myself, but witheveryone else around me.
I tell everyone that I lovethem Obviously the ones that I
do love, not the ones but I'mmore in the moment with
everything that's going on in mylife.
The thing that I do strugglewith right now and I haven't
(29:03):
been able to answer thisquestion, I'm still grappling
and dealing with it in my ownhead Is why did it take such a
profound situation for me tobecome who I am now?
I don't have the answer to thatright now.
(29:24):
I'm hoping to find out not foryou guys, for myself why it took
so long.
I've been trying to answer thisquestion for several weeks now.
I do a lot of this thinkingwhen I'm on my own, which is
best.
I need to figure this out on myown.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I think that's a very powerful question to be asking
yourself.
I'm just going to restress,don't be too hard on yourself
with it but I think it's a veryself-aware, powerful question to
be asking and to be trying tofind the answer to, and I think
you're the only person that cantruly find that answer.
(30:05):
I know something that's beenhard for you throughout this
journey is how the shift inpeople's behavior naturally
tends to happen when you becomea terminal cancer patient.
I think there's a lesson herefor anybody who is in the life
(30:31):
of someone who is going throughcancer, or for anyone who is
going through cancer.
I think having an awareness ofthis would be a helpful thing.
You've talked about how people'sbehavior towards you has
changed and to some degreethat's inevitable because the
(30:53):
situation has changed, butbecause people don't actually
know what you're going through,because people can only assume
what it's like or they have adifferent experience with
someone with cancer who maybewas in a lot more pain, or
whatever the situation may be,the way that you're treated is
(31:16):
different Almost sometimes bysome individuals it can be like
fragile and frankly, in my eyesyou're not fragile, but I think
it's easy for somebody toover-index on caretaking, on
(31:37):
being careful with you, whatthat experience is like, knowing
that people have the bestintentions with this, but I
think it would be helpful tobring some awareness to what
it's actually like to experiencethat so that people can
(31:59):
approach it from a better place.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Absolutely.
Now, mind you, I'mself-sufficient.
I can drive, I can do prettymuch everything.
I have limitations and I knowthose and I don't exceed those.
But in my head, cancer everyday slowly takes something away
from you your physical strength,your fatigue.
At some point I'm sure it'sgoing to take the ability for me
(32:23):
to be as self-sufficient as Iam, whether that be driving or
doing whatever, and I'm aware ofthat.
What's difficult from myperspective and I know everyone
has their best intentions yourmother.
We had a chat.
This went on for a few weeksafter I got out of the hospital.
(32:46):
It wasn't just your mother, itwas my mother, everyone, my
uncle, my brother.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I mean hell.
I know I've been guilty of ittoo.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Everyone treats you differently, then, oh, you
shouldn't be lifting that.
Can you do?
I take walks with Laura aroundthe neighborhood.
Can you do another one?
Yeah, I'm fine and I understandtheir concern and it's their
(33:23):
intentions are good intentions,but it's hard because I went
from being so self-sufficient tobeing not as self-sufficient.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I would say that you went from not just being
self-sufficient, but I think youwere also like the person that
many people leaned on.
You know you were sufficientenough for yourself and for many
others, so I think the swingwas even bigger for you.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I would agree with that, and you're right about
that.
I didn't.
I wasn't going to I don't know,for lack of better terms toot
my own horn, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Well, that's okay, I'll toot it.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
But yeah, you're right.
I mean, there was otherindividuals that I don't want to
say counted on me, but came tome when they needed it.
So I was more than happy toaccommodate and try to help out
in any way I could.
Now, if you guys know David'smom I love her.
When I had this conversationshe took a little time to digest
(34:24):
everything.
Two days went by digesteverything.
Two days went by and she wasgetting up to go to work and get
ready.
I was up, she handed me a list.
I was like what's this?
There was five items on there.
She's like you don't want to betreated different.
She goes get these done today.
I go okay, I'm like that's whatI needed to hear.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, you were probably happy.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, absolutely so.
That was a shift in change thatshe's gotten better.
There's times that she fallsback, but for the most part she
tries not to treat me anydifferently.
It's harder for other people.
Some people still treat medifferently and I point it out
(35:10):
to them and they don'tacknowledge that and they're
like oh, we love you, that's whywe're treating you different.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
But I think it's important for anyone listening
to do some self-reflection onyes, you care for the individual
right and yes, you want to makesure that they're not doing
something that's going to injurethem.
That's all coming from a goodplace, but we have to find the
shades of gray here.
We have to find the balance.
When you're thinking about thatperson, think both about their
(35:42):
physical health and their mentalhealth.
Filter it through the lens ofhow is saying this going to make
them feel?
Am I making them feel weak?
Am I making them feel powerless?
There's multiple sides to it.
You can ask things or framethings in a way that shows that
you care, while also not puttingthem in a frame or a place of
(36:09):
powerlessness or weakness.
For instance and maybe thisisn't a great example but off
the top of my head, saying well,you shouldn't be doing that,
you have cancer versus hey, justlet me know if you need any
help.
Okay, assuming that they got it, not saying like you will need
help, but also just leaving thedoor open for, if you know, it
(36:32):
is a little over.
I think there's always adifferent way of doing things or
framing things.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I would agree because , especially when you said, it
makes me feel powerless andthose are some of the emotions
that I have experienced or occurI feel powerless and it's like,
please stop.
It doesn't make me feel good.
It may make you feel good inthe present time and moment, but
it doesn't do anything for meand I'm not trying to be all
(37:05):
about me in this particularsituation but it doesn't help my
state of mind.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
And we can find a balance.
I'm also going to be honestwith you, John, multiple times
throughout this podcast.
I think a lot of people don'trealize that the timing of this
podcast's launch was onlyseveral weeks before the
diagnosis, only several weeksbefore the diagnosis.
(37:36):
This podcast has been wrappedaround the genesis of this
diagnosis and, if I'm beinghonest with you, multiple times
when we've had certainconversations, conversations
that we've had inspired me to doepisodes or topics on this
podcast because I thought ifthey might be helpful to you,
they might be helpful to someoneelse, and because you've been
(37:57):
very front of mind I don't thinkyou realize how many episodes
you've secretly inspired.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
No, I was not aware of that.
I appreciate that, David.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
No, I was not aware of that.
I appreciate that, that nothingwill ever happen, that we have
an endless amount of time, evenif we know it's not endless, to
treat it like it's endless andto not live life to its fullest
because we feel like we have somuch time.
But I think when that time getstaken away, it really
emphasizes how important time is.
(38:54):
And it sounds like your morerecent mindset which, might I
say, does echo Maury fromTuesdays with Maury really gets
that across and I want everyonelistening to really think about
this.
Don't just roll your eyes orsay, oh yeah, I'll do that and
(39:18):
then just let this roll off yourback.
I'm sure if you could have hadthis realization earlier, while
you were healthy realizationearlier, while you were healthy,
if you could have had theopportunity to have somebody get
this lesson across to you inthe way that you've come, to get
this lesson across for yourselfin retrospect, you would want
(39:42):
that and in my eyes, that's whatyou're providing to everyone
here.
You're all being blessed withthe opportunity to take your
life into your own hands andlive it.
As cliche as it sounds like youwere dying To actually put the
first things first, what mattersmost to you in your life, in
(40:06):
the front, instead of waitingtill something terrible happens
to have this realization.
So I'm going to let you tellpeople one more time what's
really important.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
As I stated earlier and will continue to emphasize,
all that matters is therelationships that we build with
the people that we care about.
It's not the money, it's notthe cars, it's not the trucks,
all these materialistic thingsthat we spend so much time
trying to achieve or acquire.
(40:39):
None of it matters anymore, atleast not in my eyes.
I'll give it all up just tohave more time than I'm probably
going to have with the peoplethat I love, but everyone has to
figure that out for themselvesin what's really important to
them, whether it be family,friends, whether it's something
(41:00):
else I don't know.
At least for me, what mattersis the people.
I do want to thank you, david,for having me on.
Hopefully my situation can helpsomeone else, whether it be
through their illness or theirstate of mind and where they are
with everything.
If I can help one person, I'mhappy.
(41:21):
I'm hoping I can hopefullyimpact more individuals.
That would be my goal andhopefully that will happen.
Once again, thank you, david,for having me on and giving me
this opportunity to talk witheveryone.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
And thank you, john, for agreeing to do this podcast
with me.
This means the world to me and,frankly, I'm doing this one for
me, not for you guys.
I'm being a little selfish here.
This is really important to me,but I do hope that everyone
(42:01):
listening gets something out ofthis podcast.
This is a unique situation andI hope it makes a difference.
And remember you are enough andyou deserve to fill up your
(42:26):
inner cup with happiness,confidence and self-compassion.
Thank you for listening to theSage Solutions Podcast.
Your time is valuable and I'mso glad you choose to learn and
grow here with me.
If you haven't already, don'tforget to subscribe so you don't
(42:51):
miss out on more Sage advice.
One last thing the legallanguage.
This podcast is for educationaland informational purposes only
.
No coaching client relationshipis formed.
It is not intended as asubstitute for the personalized
advice of a physician,professional coach,
psychotherapist or otherqualified professional.
(43:14):
The opinions of guests aretheir own and may not
necessarily reflect the opinionsof the podcast.
Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk
about all things personalgrowth, personal development and
becoming your best self.
My name is David Sage and I ama self-worth and confidence
coach with Sage CoachingSolutions solutions.
This episode is part two of myconversation with my stepfather,
(00:28):
john Ezelina, about histerminal cancer diagnosis, his
life and his mindset.
If you haven't had a chance tolisten to part one, I strongly
recommend that you go back andlisten to part one before you
start this episode, part two,where we focus more on the
(00:49):
realizations and mindsets thatJohn has come to and had.
Also, depending on yoursituation, this may be a very
triggering episode for somebodywho is either going through
cancer or had a close loved onego through cancer.
So if you don't feel likeyou're in a place to listen to
this episode right now, that'stotally okay.
(01:11):
In our first episode, weinterviewed my stepfather, john,
and talked to him about thefactual medical timeline and the
cancer journey that he's beenon, finding out that he had
stage four terminal cancer andall of the events following that
.
We also talked about John'slife before the cancer and many
(01:33):
of the pivotal events or choicesthat he made that led him to
become the incredible personthat he is today.
Before we get into it, our goalwith this podcast is to share
free, helpful tools with you andanyone you know who is looking
to improve their life.
So take action, subscribe andshare this podcast with them.
(02:05):
John, as you were living throughall of these different ups and
downs, the roller coaster ofthis battle with cancer, I think
it's really important that wetouch on some of the non-cancer
events that happened all aroundthe same time.
We kind of hit a point whereyou me, Hannah Anna, hannah Anna
(02:29):
, my mom we would just look ateach other, shake our heads and,
with a sad chuckle, just saywhen it rains, it pours, because
each new thing that kepthappening really poured it on.
I'd like you to touch on theevents that happened surrounding
Avi or Avalon, your cat, andFowler, your dog, and how the
unfortunate timing made thiswhole situation that much harder
(02:56):
.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Absolutely.
Avi and Fowler are our pets.
Avi's, our little cat Fowler weadopted during the pandemic.
While I was in the hospital,laura kept me updated with the
situation with the animals andhow they were dealing with
everything, and obviously theymissed me.
Taking it a step further, abouta year prior to my diagnosis
(03:22):
maybe even longer, I'm notexactly sure Fowler started
losing weight.
He was diagnosed with kidneydisease.
They gave him maybe a year andhe went about a year.
It was tough but he kept hisspirits high.
I was hoping I would bereleased soon enough where I
(03:43):
could at least say goodbye.
Unfortunately that did nothappen, so Laura had to put him
down when I was in the hospital.
That was difficult on all of us.
I know it was particularlydifficult on your mom.
She bonded with Fowler andFowler obviously bonded with
your mom.
The cat had more of a bond withme.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
She definitely, definitely struggled with it.
I actually stayed in the roomwith her when they put him down
and both of us were strugglingwith how frustrating it must
have been that you weren't ableto be there.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It was extremely frustrating.
It was frustrating not beingthere saying my last goodbyes to
him, but a lot of thefrustration came from the fact
that I felt helpless.
I wasn't able to be there foryour mom.
She was there for me and stillis.
She was there for the animalsand everyone, but the one time
(04:41):
that she needed me, I was unableto be there for her.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
And obviously it was out of your control.
But the one time that sheneeded me I was unable to be
there for her, and obviously itwas out of your control.
You know that wasn't somethingthat you had a choice in and we
all know that if there was anyway you could have been there,
you would have One.
I guess bright side is thatafter you were released from the
hospital, abby, your guy'sadorable little cat, was glued
(05:18):
to you at the hip, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I was fortunate enough to have a little time
with her before she passed.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
They think maybe it was leukemia and about how long
after you got released was this?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
probably a month and a half.
Uh, she, we had to put avi down.
November 4th, your mom adoptedlaura, adopted avi and it was
her cat.
For the most part, she wasalways your mom's cat, but 2019,
we had to put my chocolate labdown and I would describe Abby's
(05:55):
relationship with my chocolatelab as the brother and sister
that loved each other in abrotherly-sister kind of way.
The relationship Abby had withFowler was oh no, this is my
domain, you just are lucky to behere.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's very true.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, when JD died I think we were both grieving and
she clung to me and we developedquite the strong bond.
I never thought I was going tobe a cat person I really never
was but she became my littlegirl.
I miss her.
(06:37):
I miss all our animals.
We had amazing animals and Iwas fortunate enough to have
them in my life and I know thatthe time I had with her after
the hospital was amazing for meat least.
She clung to me.
(06:58):
I was home more often so shejust hunkered down on my lap as
long as she could and that wasit.
I mean, I think we stillstruggle to this day.
Your mom had brought up onceadopting again, but I don't know
if we're in the situation andeverything that we're dealing
(07:21):
with, where that would be a goodidea.
There's times that I'vecontemplated that and thought
about bringing it up to her, butthen I think about it and that
would just be another thing oneveryone's plate that I don't
know if we can deal with rightnow.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Which is totally understandable, understandable.
I'd like to dive into yourexperiences, your mindset, what
led you to this point and maybeany lessons that you might have
surrounding this, and we canstart wherever you'd like.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Thank you, david.
Three months ago I wouldn't beable to be sitting here being on
this podcast.
I was not in the mental statethat I needed to be or wanted to
be.
My friends and everyone thatknows me and knows me well knew
I was masked and everything Iwould say, oh, I'm fine.
But I wasn't.
I had some built-up anger,frustration, quite a bit of
(08:23):
anger, to be honest with you,not that.
Oh, why did this happen to me?
I had to do some looking atmyself in the mirror and, yeah,
it sucks that I developedterminal liver cancer, but some
of it's on me.
For a part of my adult life well, most of my adult life I smoked
(08:45):
, I drank.
I never thought I drank much.
During the pandemic I had onecocktail an evening.
Why, I don't know, can't figurethat out.
But my mindset was not where itneeded to be.
It was not just affecting me ona daily basis, it was affecting
the most important people in mylife Laura, david, hannah, anna
(09:09):
, my mom, my brother, my uncle.
They saw what I was goingthrough, especially Laura,
because she's with me all thetime.
She put on that strong face and, oh, it's okay, because some of
my frustration would be notdirected towards her, but she
was in the vicinity of it.
I also didn't want cancer todefine me, meaning oh, he was a
(09:35):
great guy and he got cancer andhe became an asshole.
It's not the way I wanted to beportrayed by my loved ones and
everyone else that knew me.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I wanted to be portrayed by my loved ones and
everyone else that knew me Well.
And John, I do want to say thisyour life changed and your
future surrounding your lifechanged quite a bit, and I'm
really happy that you're in theheadspace that you're in now.
(10:06):
Really, I wanted nothing morethan that.
But I also don't fault you forwhere you were at and I don't
think you should fault yourselffor that either.
You know you were dealing withstages of grief.
Whether they were in the presetorder that they talk about, we
(10:26):
don't need to get into thespecifics of that.
But frankly, so many areas ofyour life and your future were
changing simultaneously thatit's totally understandable that
your brain, your body, yourspirit would need to take time
to process that in differentways, to grieve what you are
(10:50):
losing and to find a way forward.
It's very rare for somebody togo through a grieving process
without anger.
It's basically an essentialstep.
It's a part of the process thatyou can't really skip.
It's just about when it happens.
So I'm not telling you how tolive your life or anything.
(11:14):
I just do think that youdeserve grace for going through
the steps in the way that youneeded to.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I really appreciate you saying that, david, but
looking back, it was more thanthat.
It was affecting everyone elseyou, your mom.
My depression made them I mean,I know how much you guys care
about me and it was affectingthem on a daily basis and I
(11:44):
didn't want that and also Ididn't want cancer to for lack
of better terms define me.
I'm trying not to let myremaining time be controlled by
this disease and I'm not sayingit doesn't affect me because it
(12:06):
does, but I don't want.
I don't want it to affect me inthe most negative ways, cause I
saw what it was doing firsthandto your mom.
Uh, she was.
My depression made herdepressed.
She is one of the strongestpeople and woman I've ever met
and I couldn't be going throughthis without her.
Um, people and woman I've evermet and I couldn't be going
(12:27):
through this without her.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I didn't want my situation to make her depressed.
I think it's very insightful ofyou to have reflected so
heavily on how your situationwas also affecting the people
that you love, but I also don'tthink it was your intention to
hurt anyone with it.
I think what you're goingthrough is something I can't
(12:55):
even fathom.
I can try and empathize to thebest of my ability and to some
degree I'm going through itbecause of my feelings towards
you and how much I love you, butI'm not saying that just to
make you feel better.
I honestly never really faultedyou for being in the headspace
(13:17):
that you were in, becauseaccepting something like that a
terminal cancer diagnosis out ofnowhere and all of the changes
that come with that is somethingthat very few people listening
to this truly understand theweight of, if any, and I
(13:37):
genuinely think that theintention matters too.
I don't believe that at anypoint it was your intention to
hurt anyone around you.
I just think you had really bigfeelings, emotions surrounding
it and unfortunately it wascausing some collateral damage
(13:58):
and I think once you becamefully aware of that collateral
damage, you made a decision andsince you've made that decision,
you've stuck with it and forthat being able to have the
mindset that you have now in thesituation that you're in is
something that I'm bothincredibly impressed with and
(14:22):
very proud of.
So I want you to know that I'mproud of you and and I love you
and we're going to get throughthis together, and I brought you
on here because I know that youhave a lot of value to provide
to the people listening to this.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So I do appreciate you saying that, david.
I needed to get out of thatmindset because I was grieving
inside and since then I'm in abetter place.
And how I got there?
It wasn't easy.
I contribute my mindset changeto a few factors.
(15:02):
One, hannah on her days off shetakes the time to come over and
listen to that, tuesdays withMaury audiobook with me,
spending time with me, davidwhen he's available, coming with
Anna and listening to thispodcast.
And then David's sister, annaone day she had asked me to go
(15:27):
to church with her.
I know along the road I lost myway in faith and your sisters
brought that back into my lifeand it's helped.
It may not be for everyone, butit's really helped me to come
to peace with everything.
I'm not going to sit here anddive into the whole religion
(15:50):
thing or whatnot.
In this particular church whereI go, it works for me.
It's been good for me.
I've gone every Sunday now forover two months.
The support system that I haveLaura, my family, my friends
keep me grounded.
I have a small village behindme and I'm fortunate that way.
(16:13):
If it wasn't for the smallvillage, hannah, david and
everyone I wouldn't be sittinghere on this podcast, talking to
you guys.
It's really transformed on howI conduct my daily life and how
(16:33):
I look at things.
I mean I'm not going to be ableto change my situation, my
health.
I can only make the best ofwhat is dealt Nowadays.
I enjoy the little things wakingup in the morning Okay, I got
another day Spending time withall my loved ones, my family, my
friends.
So I just enjoy the littlethings and try to go as far as I
(16:56):
can.
I think the worst thing thatthe doctors did is put a
timeline on my life, because nowI'm out to prove them wrong and
I'm going to do everything Ican.
It's'm out to prove them wrongand I'm going to do everything I
can.
It's not just to prove themwrong, it's also for me.
I want a little more time witheveryone.
I've been fortunate enough toenjoy life and everything that
(17:21):
goes along with it.
I do want to simply touch onone thing.
I'm not here to preach toanyone, but don't get caught up
on the material things in thisworld the house, the cars, the
money, whatnot Can't take itwith you.
Enjoy the things that trulymatter, the people that we
(17:46):
engage with.
Those are what really matters,because now, god in the house,
the car, whatever, doesn't meananything to me.
I just want more time withthese people.
I'm going to leave it at that.
Thank you for everything.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Wow, wow.
There was just a lot of valuethere.
There was so much wisdom andpractical experience from the
situation that you're in.
It sounds like You've come to aplace of simultaneous
(18:29):
acceptance and at least somelevel of peace, especially
compared to where your mindsetwas before.
And this simultaneous drivelike a fight.
You know where you're acceptingthe reality of your situation,
(18:56):
making the most of the time thatyou have, but not just laying
down and letting it happen Likethere's still a fight in you,
because not only do you want tomake the most of the time that
you have, but you want to makethe most time to have it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, I've come to accept everything for what it is
.
I mean, when you're dying, youhave to accept the situation for
what it is, because if youdon't, honestly it's going to
eat you alive.
I've encountered way too manypeople right now who have cancer
.
Your attitude is going to go along way.
If you try to portray positiveattitude, it's going to work in
(19:32):
your favor.
From a physical standpoint, thecancer is always going to be
there.
There's certain things that wecan do to minimize that.
Unfortunately, my situation is alot more difficult from the
outside.
As I said earlier, I'm thehealthiest dying person you guys
will probably ever hear orencounter.
Yeah, I'm.
(19:52):
I've accepted everything forwhat it is and, like I said,
some of that acceptance I had todo from a standpoint of I had
to look in the mirror and takesome responsibility for the
situation.
Would things be different ifmaybe I would have gone to the
doctor more?
Maybe Part of the reason I saythat is David couldn't attest.
(20:13):
They said that the tumors haveprobably been in me for about
five years, so could things havebeen different?
Possibly, do your dailycheckups everyone.
Maybe I would be in a differentsituation.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, actually I do want to double click on this
because you and I have had someconversations surrounding this
and I know earlier you said Idon't want to preach.
But frankly, john, it's myopinion, at least on this
podcast, that you're in aspecial position to preach.
I don't necessarily meanreligion.
We do tend to keep this podcasta religious and a political.
(20:50):
But, um, any lessons or thingsthat you've learned or things
that, based on your experience,uh, you want to stress to people
, feel free to do it here.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
The one thing I do want to say.
I've heard it from other peoplewho are in situations similar
and they're dying, or the oldman sitting in the hospital and
he doesn't have much time left.
My advice is take care of yourhealth while you can.
(21:25):
I know it's a broad statement,but everyone always says that,
even in the movies you hear, oh,you know should have taken
better care of myself, and I dowish I would have.
From the outside, I looked likeyour healthiest individual that
you have ever met, but I didn'trealize until last year how bad
(21:47):
the situation was, whether thatbe the smoking, the drinking,
the, you know, more exercise,your checkups with your regular
doctor.
I recommend doing it all, notfor me, not for yourself, but
for the people around you thatcare about you, but for the
people around you that careabout you because they're
(22:08):
invested in this as well as youare, if not more, sometimes.
So I'm going to end this hereto tell everyone do what's best
for yourself and your health,because at the end of the day,
as I stated earlier, the moneywill come and go, the house will
come and go.
You can't take that with you.
The only thing that matters tome anymore is the time that I
(22:30):
have with everyone, and if youwant more time, I suggest taking
care of yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
No, it's good advice and it's from a perspective that
most people don't think about.
I haven't really thought aboutthe aspect of taking care of
your health as something that'sa kindness to your loved ones.
It's actually a really uniqueperspective and I'm going to
have to do more thinking aboutand reflecting on that.
I also want to go a littledeeper on this difference in
(23:02):
mindset shift.
I think you covered it prettywell, but I think there's two
different conclusions thatpeople can come to as a dying
person and honestly, that'soversimplifying it.
I'm not being shades of grayenough here, but to some degree
there's two common ones thatemerge.
One of them is I'm going to die, so what's the point?
(23:26):
And the other is I'm going todie, so every second is precious
.
And, logically speaking,depending on your mindset,
depending on your thinking, theyboth make some sense, but one
of them seems like a much betteroption, in my opinion, like a
much more fulfilling option,whereas the first one doesn't
(23:50):
really help you, it doesn'treally accomplish much.
It's a very nihilistic way oflooking at it.
Just because you're dying, itdoesn't mean that nothing
matters, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
In regards to the first aspect that you said about
dying, oh, I'm going to die.
Let me tell you that's the wayI felt and, to be honest with
you, I think that it's.
They're masking their truefeelings.
They're scared, as I think mostpeople are.
I would catch myself saying, oh, it doesn't matter, you know
(24:24):
we're all going to die.
You know, once the doctors andmedical professionals put a
timeline on your life, itbecomes real, becomes real real
quick.
Believe me, that changes yourmindset real quick.
Because I was that person andpart of that was, I think, I was
scared, but I also I wanted toportray this larger-than-life
(24:47):
persona about okay, you know,nothing's going to hurt me or
whatever, you know nothing'sgoing to stop me.
And for the most part, I thinkI portrayed that persona quite
well.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I would agree.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
But it was wrong.
I mean, deep down inside,looking back now, I was scared.
I think we all are, whether wewant to admit it or not.
That's two different things.
Now you can ask me anything.
I'm not going to lie In thesituation I'm in.
(25:23):
There's no reason for me tomask any of my true feelings
about any situation or any topic.
So if you want whatever realanswer, come and talk to me.
I'll give it to you straight,believe me.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
That's one thing that I really admire about you, even
before, but I think especiallynow admire about you even before
, but I think especially now youare willing to give it to
people straight, but especiallynow you're willing to say things
even if they're uncomfortableto say, to be vulnerable, to be
real with people and I think ina way, that's kind of a
(26:07):
superpower that you've gainedfrom this whole experience.
I'm not trying to be this blindoptimist in what I'm about to
say.
I wouldn't wish going throughwhat you're going through on
anyone, but that doesn't meanthat no good can come from it.
But that doesn't mean that nogood can come from it.
(26:31):
And through some of theconversations that we've had,
you've alluded to the fact thatyou actually feel like, with
this new mindset, you're an evenbetter version of yourself than
you were before.
I think there's been a littlebit of a theme throughout this
podcast of talking about how,while pain is real and objective
(26:51):
and hard, it's also unescapable.
We're all going to have pain inour life at different points in
our life, from different thingsin our life, and we can't just
avoid all pain because A it'simpossible, just avoid all pain
(27:12):
because a it's impossible and b.
Working through the pain cancause some of our most
significant growth as humanbeings.
Would you be willing to talkabout some of the growth that
you feel you've had from goingthrough such a painful yet
unique experience?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Absolutely.
I didn't know we were going togo here, but it's fine.
This is going to be a littledifficult for me, so I don't
think I was a bad person beforemy diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I'm going to stop right there for a second and say
I wholeheartedly don't thinkyou were a bad person for a
second and say I wholeheartedlydon't think you were a bad
person.
I think you were a good personthat I love and has been a very
helpful person in my life.
But you were also human, justlike the rest of us, and we all
make mistakes, and I think it'simportant that you give yourself
(28:03):
some self-compassion hereBecause, like I said, what
you're going through right nowcomes with unique insights that
some people may never havewithout going through the
experiences that you have.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Thank you for all that, david.
I appreciate it.
As I was saying, I don't thinkI was a bad person.
In my growth here, in mymindset change and how I'm
dealing with everything, I thinkI'm a better person now than I
was before.
As David alluded to, I'm morein touch with my feelings, not
(28:43):
just with myself, but witheveryone else around me.
I tell everyone that I lovethem Obviously the ones that I
do love, not the ones but I'mmore in the moment with
everything that's going on in mylife.
The thing that I do strugglewith right now and I haven't
(29:03):
been able to answer thisquestion, I'm still grappling
and dealing with it in my ownhead Is why did it take such a
profound situation for me tobecome who I am now?
I don't have the answer to thatright now.
(29:24):
I'm hoping to find out not foryou guys, for myself why it took
so long.
I've been trying to answer thisquestion for several weeks now.
I do a lot of this thinkingwhen I'm on my own, which is
best.
I need to figure this out on myown.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I think that's a very powerful question to be asking
yourself.
I'm just going to restress,don't be too hard on yourself
with it but I think it's a veryself-aware, powerful question to
be asking and to be trying tofind the answer to, and I think
you're the only person that cantruly find that answer.
(30:05):
I know something that's beenhard for you throughout this
journey is how the shift inpeople's behavior naturally
tends to happen when you becomea terminal cancer patient.
I think there's a lesson herefor anybody who is in the life
(30:31):
of someone who is going throughcancer, or for anyone who is
going through cancer.
I think having an awareness ofthis would be a helpful thing.
You've talked about how people'sbehavior towards you has
changed and to some degreethat's inevitable because the
(30:53):
situation has changed, butbecause people don't actually
know what you're going through,because people can only assume
what it's like or they have adifferent experience with
someone with cancer who maybewas in a lot more pain, or
whatever the situation may be,the way that you're treated is
(31:16):
different Almost sometimes bysome individuals it can be like
fragile and frankly, in my eyesyou're not fragile, but I think
it's easy for somebody toover-index on caretaking, on
(31:37):
being careful with you, whatthat experience is like, knowing
that people have the bestintentions with this, but I
think it would be helpful tobring some awareness to what
it's actually like to experiencethat so that people can
(31:59):
approach it from a better place.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Absolutely.
Now, mind you, I'mself-sufficient.
I can drive, I can do prettymuch everything.
I have limitations and I knowthose and I don't exceed those.
But in my head, cancer everyday slowly takes something away
from you your physical strength,your fatigue.
At some point I'm sure it'sgoing to take the ability for me
(32:23):
to be as self-sufficient as Iam, whether that be driving or
doing whatever, and I'm aware ofthat.
What's difficult from myperspective and I know everyone
has their best intentions yourmother.
We had a chat.
This went on for a few weeksafter I got out of the hospital.
(32:46):
It wasn't just your mother, itwas my mother, everyone, my
uncle, my brother.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I mean hell.
I know I've been guilty of ittoo.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Everyone treats you differently, then, oh, you
shouldn't be lifting that.
Can you do?
I take walks with Laura aroundthe neighborhood.
Can you do another one?
Yeah, I'm fine and I understandtheir concern and it's their
(33:23):
intentions are good intentions,but it's hard because I went
from being so self-sufficient tobeing not as self-sufficient.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I would say that you went from not just being
self-sufficient, but I think youwere also like the person that
many people leaned on.
You know you were sufficientenough for yourself and for many
others, so I think the swingwas even bigger for you.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I would agree with that, and you're right about
that.
I didn't.
I wasn't going to I don't know,for lack of better terms toot
my own horn, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Well, that's okay, I'll toot it.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
But yeah, you're right.
I mean, there was otherindividuals that I don't want to
say counted on me, but came tome when they needed it.
So I was more than happy toaccommodate and try to help out
in any way I could.
Now, if you guys know David'smom I love her.
When I had this conversationshe took a little time to digest
(34:24):
everything.
Two days went by digesteverything.
Two days went by and she wasgetting up to go to work and get
ready.
I was up, she handed me a list.
I was like what's this?
There was five items on there.
She's like you don't want to betreated different.
She goes get these done today.
I go okay, I'm like that's whatI needed to hear.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, you were probably happy.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, absolutely so.
That was a shift in change thatshe's gotten better.
There's times that she fallsback, but for the most part she
tries not to treat me anydifferently.
It's harder for other people.
Some people still treat medifferently and I point it out
(35:10):
to them and they don'tacknowledge that and they're
like oh, we love you, that's whywe're treating you different.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
But I think it's important for anyone listening
to do some self-reflection onyes, you care for the individual
right and yes, you want to makesure that they're not doing
something that's going to injurethem.
That's all coming from a goodplace, but we have to find the
shades of gray here.
We have to find the balance.
When you're thinking about thatperson, think both about their
(35:42):
physical health and their mentalhealth.
Filter it through the lens ofhow is saying this going to make
them feel?
Am I making them feel weak?
Am I making them feel powerless?
There's multiple sides to it.
You can ask things or framethings in a way that shows that
you care, while also not puttingthem in a frame or a place of
(36:09):
powerlessness or weakness.
For instance and maybe thisisn't a great example but off
the top of my head, saying well,you shouldn't be doing that,
you have cancer versus hey, justlet me know if you need any
help.
Okay, assuming that they got it, not saying like you will need
help, but also just leaving thedoor open for, if you know, it
(36:32):
is a little over.
I think there's always adifferent way of doing things or
framing things.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I would agree because , especially when you said, it
makes me feel powerless andthose are some of the emotions
that I have experienced or occurI feel powerless and it's like,
please stop.
It doesn't make me feel good.
It may make you feel good inthe present time and moment, but
it doesn't do anything for meand I'm not trying to be all
(37:05):
about me in this particularsituation but it doesn't help my
state of mind.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
And we can find a balance.
I'm also going to be honestwith you, John, multiple times
throughout this podcast.
I think a lot of people don'trealize that the timing of this
podcast's launch was onlyseveral weeks before the
diagnosis, only several weeksbefore the diagnosis.
(37:36):
This podcast has been wrappedaround the genesis of this
diagnosis and, if I'm beinghonest with you, multiple times
when we've had certainconversations, conversations
that we've had inspired me to doepisodes or topics on this
podcast because I thought ifthey might be helpful to you,
they might be helpful to someoneelse, and because you've been
(37:57):
very front of mind I don't thinkyou realize how many episodes
you've secretly inspired.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
No, I was not aware of that.
I appreciate that, David.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
No, I was not aware of that.
I appreciate that, that nothingwill ever happen, that we have
an endless amount of time, evenif we know it's not endless, to
treat it like it's endless andto not live life to its fullest
because we feel like we have somuch time.
But I think when that time getstaken away, it really
emphasizes how important time is.
(38:54):
And it sounds like your morerecent mindset which, might I
say, does echo Maury fromTuesdays with Maury really gets
that across and I want everyonelistening to really think about
this.
Don't just roll your eyes orsay, oh yeah, I'll do that and
(39:18):
then just let this roll off yourback.
I'm sure if you could have hadthis realization earlier, while
you were healthy realizationearlier, while you were healthy,
if you could have had theopportunity to have somebody get
this lesson across to you inthe way that you've come, to get
this lesson across for yourselfin retrospect, you would want
(39:42):
that and in my eyes, that's whatyou're providing to everyone
here.
You're all being blessed withthe opportunity to take your
life into your own hands andlive it.
As cliche as it sounds like youwere dying To actually put the
first things first, what mattersmost to you in your life, in
(40:06):
the front, instead of waitingtill something terrible happens
to have this realization.
So I'm going to let you tellpeople one more time what's
really important.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
As I stated earlier and will continue to emphasize,
all that matters is therelationships that we build with
the people that we care about.
It's not the money, it's notthe cars, it's not the trucks,
all these materialistic thingsthat we spend so much time
trying to achieve or acquire.
(40:39):
None of it matters anymore, atleast not in my eyes.
I'll give it all up just tohave more time than I'm probably
going to have with the peoplethat I love, but everyone has to
figure that out for themselvesin what's really important to
them, whether it be family,friends, whether it's something
(41:00):
else I don't know.
At least for me, what mattersis the people.
I do want to thank you, david,for having me on.
Hopefully my situation can helpsomeone else, whether it be
through their illness or theirstate of mind and where they are
with everything.
If I can help one person, I'mhappy.
(41:21):
I'm hoping I can hopefullyimpact more individuals.
That would be my goal andhopefully that will happen.
Once again, thank you, david,for having me on and giving me
this opportunity to talk witheveryone.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
And thank you, john, for agreeing to do this podcast
with me.
This means the world to me and,frankly, I'm doing this one for
me, not for you guys.
I'm being a little selfish here.
This is really important to me,but I do hope that everyone
(42:01):
listening gets something out ofthis podcast.
This is a unique situation andI hope it makes a difference.
And remember you are enough andyou deserve to fill up your
(42:26):
inner cup with happiness,confidence and self-compassion.
Thank you for listening to theSage Solutions Podcast.
Your time is valuable and I'mso glad you choose to learn and
grow here with me.
If you haven't already, don'tforget to subscribe so you don't
(42:51):
miss out on more Sage advice.
One last thing the legallanguage.
This podcast is for educationaland informational purposes only
.
No coaching client relationshipis formed.
It is not intended as asubstitute for the personalized
advice of a physician,professional coach,
psychotherapist or otherqualified professional.
(43:14):
The opinions of guests aretheir own and may not
necessarily reflect the opinionsof the podcast.
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