August 10, 2023 • 29 mins
In our fast-paced world, it's easy to get swept up in the hustle, forgetting to take care of ourselves along the way. Lindsay Miller dives into the urgent need for consciously deciding not to wear ourselves thin. We talk about how society often fails to emphasize self-care, and the importance of intentionally cultivating habits that promote it. Mindfulness as not just a passing trend, but a lifestyle that promotes clarity, focus, and inner peace.
We also explore the concept of mindful awareness: the power of being present, observing our thoughts and feelings from a distance, and creating a daily practice of mindfulness. When we start understanding our emotions and how past experiences influence our present reactions, then we can see how that can be beneficial. Finally, we discuss how shifting from a fear-based mindset to one of curiosity can enhance resilience, offering you a fresh and empowering perspective on navigating life's ups and downs. Set sail with us on this enlightening journey, and discover the tools to create a more fulfilling, resilient, and mindful life.
You can learn more about Lindsay on her website TheStressNanny.com, Instagram @thestressnanny, and you can listen to her Podcast The Stress Nanny with Lindsay Miller.
To hear to full episode: That Sinking Feeling: Pushing to the Breaking Point
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lorie Tesny (00:01):
Are you so engulfed in your daily life that you've
forgotten to take care ofyourself?
Tapping into our reality andmaking small changes can shift
the course we're on.
I found myself looking fordirection and understanding in
my own situation.
If you want to find balanceagain in the chaos of life, keep
listening.
Hello and welcome to SailingThrough Life.
(00:26):
I'm Lori, your host and friend.
Join me as I shareconversations that give you hope
through the storms of life.
You'll find inspiration throughthe experiences of my guests,
as well as hearing my own crazy,wonderful adventure.
Create the life you desire bydiscovering new ways to focus on
your health and well-beingthrough modifying your habits
(00:49):
and improving your mindset.
Set sail with me on thisjourney to realize the strength
and resilience you have inside.
Let us show you how, as yousail through life.
Welcome aboard.
Thank you for sharing your timewith me today.
(01:12):
You are extremely important tome and this show, and I'm
grateful for you being here.
I hope to continue to bringinspiration to your day every
day.
Want to be a part of the crew.
Support us by sharing this showwith your friends and family
and by making a contributionfinancially to help us to
(01:32):
continue to grow the show.
You can learn more atsailingthroughlifepodcastcom.
My cancer experience made meconfront difficult choices head
on, which has reshaped myperspective on life and what's
truly important.
I'm drawing strength from thesupport of my friends and family
(01:55):
as I embark on this journey ofself-discovery, dealing with the
emotional side of loss,including the challenge of
identity.
Resilience is the ability tobounce back from difficult or
challenging situations.
It's a learned skill that canbe developed through practice.
People who are resilient areable to cope with stress and
(02:20):
adversity in a healthy way.
They're also able to seesetbacks as temporary and learn
from them.
They're able to maintain apositive outlook even in tough
times.
It's important to take care ofyourself, both physically and
mentally.
If you feel overwhelmed andexhausted by your current
(02:42):
circumstances, it's important totake some time for yourself to
relax and de-stress.
You may want to try taking awalk, reading a book or spending
time with people who ignite you.
It's important to continuehealthy habits, with eating
healthy and getting enough sleep.
Your mental health is key toall of it.
(03:06):
Today I'm going back to aprevious conversation, so relax,
take a deep breath and join usas we unravel the transformative
power of mindfulness andself-care.
With my past guest, lindsayMiller, we explore the
importance of slowing down,prioritizing activities that
(03:26):
bring joy, and how beingintentional about our time can
lead to a more fulfilling life.
Just being in tune withyourself and being aware of when
you're in a good place, payingattention to that, and when
things start to slide, notingwhat are those things and
addressing them right away.
(03:47):
And I think that's a wonderfulthought process is to catch
things when they're early andnot wait until things have
gotten to a point where you're,like you said, go to the doctor
and find things out.
I think everybody's just sogeared anymore that you just go,
go, go and you don't even payattention anymore to the simple
things because you're so focusedon next week or whatever is
(04:10):
going on outside of you thatit's it's hard to be in the
moment and slow down enough andand modifying that behavior to
the point where you can reallypay attention and really stop.
And a lot of the people I endup talking to on this podcast
have been in that position wherethey've just pushed so hard
that their bodies have saidenough already and if you're not
(04:32):
going to listen, I'm going togive you something to make you
listen and it's scary to thinkthat for some reason it's, you
know, socially or whatever,acceptable to push yourself to
that extreme and that people areexpected to work at that level.
That's it's so destructive andit really does create more
situations health wise, mentallyand physically that take you
(04:56):
away from doing the things youcould have been doing.
Lindsay Miller (04:59):
Then if you just slowed down in the first place
and kind of broke it off intosmaller sections or, like you
said, start saying no a littlebit more, so that you have that
time for yourself to recharge,yeah, yeah, it's such a great
point that we don't giveourselves the permission maybe
sometimes and you know we don'tneed permission to be human and
to have bodies that have needsor, you know, to need sleep, but
(05:20):
our culture doesn't reinforcethose things with any kind of
regularity usually, and so weend up needing to really be
intentional about it, right?
And, like you're saying, say,okay, I'm going to make this
conscious decision to not runmyself ragged, to not, you know,
stay up until two in themorning every night.
And it's surprising to me, youknow, I'll look back at my sleep
(05:43):
habits before and you know thefact that I made it for as long
as I did without having a healthcrisis with the kind of sleep I
was giving my body.
It's kind of astounding, youknow, right?
Oh, no.
Lorie Tesny (05:55):
I agree.
Lindsay Miller (05:57):
Yeah, I agree.
So I think that there's so muchvalue in just owning and
honoring those needs.
And I you know the people thatI work with in cultivating
habits that promote self-caresleep is one of the hardest ones
, because they feel weak or theyfeel lazy, or they feel, you
know and we're not talking aboutgoing to bed at 530, we're
talking to go about going to bedat 10 or 930.
(06:19):
But to them they're like that'slike four hours of my day, you
know, like I can't.
What am I going to do?
How do I, how do I geteverything done If I go to sleep
?
Then, and I was like, well, youdon't, you know you do less
things.
In my own life, I found thatwhen I chose to prioritize sleep
and when I chose to prioritizeself-care, I got a lot more
(06:40):
discerning about what I allowedinto those awake hours, because
all of a sudden, they weren'tunlimited anymore.
Right, I was giving myself likea finite number of hours to get
things done each day, and so Ifound myself filling them with
very intentional activities, andit created additional meaning
for me because I was not justtaking whatever came my way and
(07:03):
not just saying yes all the time, but I was, like you said,
really honoring that moment,what I had to give, what was
being asked of me, and then, youknow, noting whether it was
something I wanted to engagewith.
And when we can get to thatlevel of presence and not just
run on autopilot and say yes allthe time and feel overwhelmed
all the time, we really do giveourselves an additional level of
(07:27):
meaning in our lives, becausewe fill our lives with the
things that matter most to usinstead of just whatever comes
our way.
Lorie Tesny (07:33):
So this goes along the lines of being more mindful
and trying to really just putthings in perspective.
Try to understand better whatis working for you and what are
some of the things you can weedout.
What would you give as anexample to a client?
Something to do to practicemore mindfulness?
Lindsay Miller (07:57):
I'm so glad you asked.
As you know, I love talking.
It's a really great question.
So one of the things that Ithink is really important to
understand about mindfulness isthat it can become a way of life
and it takes practice.
So when we just get started, wedon't want to berate ourselves
if this doesn't come easily.
It just takes time and wereally are making changes in our
(08:18):
brains that allow this to comeabout.
So don't try it once or twiceand then give up if you don't
feel like it's having theresults that I'm about to
describe, because it does taketime.
But one of the things that Ithink is great to consider is
this idea of open monitoring andthen very specific present
moment.
So there's a part of our brainthat is designed to kind of
(08:38):
watch us and that can sound alittle bit weird or
uncomfortable for people.
You can consider it like, maybe, if you're in like a factory,
say the Crayola factory, andyou're watching the crayons get
made, and you're walking alongthat high level area above the
factory and kind of looking atall the things that are going on
down below, um, you're noticingthe processes individually.
(08:59):
Then you can see everything andhow it kind of fits together
and how eventually, at the end,you get this crayon right.
So there's a part of our brainthat's designed to do that, to
kind of keep tabs on all thedifferent things I'll, you know,
like our emotional awareness,our physical wellbeing, our
senses, how we're relating toother people.
There's a part of our braindesigned to do that.
We don't always give it a tonof exercise, so sometimes it's
not the strongest part of ourbrain.
(09:20):
So an example of that this weekmy um, my daughter, had a
concussion and so in our housewe, you know, had this, the
added layer of stress, right.
We had just come off a weekendwhere we'd had company in town.
We didn't have a ton of umsleep, you know, we would stay
up late chatting, so we werealready tired.
Um, she has this like trauma.
So then we have the concussionwe're dealing with, and then we
(09:43):
also, you know, I've got to beinterfacing with her school and
we're interfacing with thedoctor and luckily it's minor,
but she still has to take someinterventions to, you know, to
recover.
So I'm recalibrating myschedules, I'm working on
figuring out what she needs andmaking sure she has the support
she needs but also the quiet andrest and it's really out of
routine for us, right?
So in that moment, what I cando is I can get really stressed
(10:05):
and, um, frustrated and anxiousabout all the different pieces
that are going on, or I can kindof go up to that catwalk right,
that place above, where I'mobserving what's going on and
saying Lindsay, in this momentyou have a lot on your plate,
right, like you already aretired, so maybe getting some
sleep is going to be important.
Over here you're working onfiguring out how to organize her
(10:26):
schoolwork and all these thingsthat are going on, and that's
going to be stressful becauseyou didn't anticipate that as
part of your week and you'realready trying to catch up from
having company.
So give yourself a break.
You know, be patient withyourself this week, because
you're navigating quite a fewthings.
You have a lot going on in yourfactory that you're not used to
and you're trying to get somenew processes up and running and
it's just going to take sometime and energy.
So make sure you're caring foryourself and maybe say no to a
(10:48):
couple of things.
You know I rescheduled a bunchof appointments and just tried
to create space so that I couldaddress what was going on in our
life At the same time having,like present moment, awareness
about the stress.
That looked like me being atthe doctor's office with her and
you know we're talking to thedoctor and just being really
clear about what her symptomsare.
So those symptoms felt a littlescary to me.
(11:11):
So my tendency- was maybe to shyaway from them or want to gloss
over them.
And so when she would come to mewith a new symptom this week,
I'd say, okay, that's greatinformation for us to have and
really just sit in that presentmoment and watch.
But I think in like a dailypractice what that looks like.
It really does just look likesitting for a couple of minutes
a day and like watching yourthoughts and that's where I
(11:32):
always tell people to start Likethey sit by your bed right
after you wake up for twominutes and just sit there and
breathe and then consider, likeyou're on the side of a river
and your thoughts are the riverright and you're just watching
your thought river go by andyou're watching the thoughts
that you're having.
You're watching your emotions,you're watching whatever's
coming, your memories, worries,and instead of being in the
(11:53):
thick of them and getting kindof beaten around by them and
like drowning in those, you'rejust taking a few steps out,
sitting on the rock at the sideof the river and watching them
float by.
And so it sounds so simple.
But just a practice like thatleads to those moments I
described this week right, wherewhen you just can do that
consistently and start to tuneinto that part of your brain
that can be the observer andthen simultaneously connect with
(12:16):
your just really present momentawareness.
It leads to this ability toreally engage with life from a
big picture perspective and thenwith present moment awareness,
which creates a kind ofmindfulness magic.
That's really great.
Lorie Tesny (12:30):
Trying to just be outside of yourself and observe
from a distance or, like you'resaying, sitting on the edge of
the river and watching all thatgo by and not being consumed by
it, and really just being aware,just inventorying what is going
on right now and having thatsense of calm it, you really you
take the power away from the,the stress and the overwhelmed
(12:53):
feelings because you're outsideof it and just breaking it down
into the simple things that arehappening.
It does really change the waythings play out because you're
not caught up in the emotion ofit.
You're taking that time to becalm and understand and make
educated decisions and not kneejerk reactions to things.
(13:15):
If you can catch yourself andput yourself outside of it to
really just stop and observe howmuch difference that makes in
going through something you knowin your life, a challenge that
you have.
Lindsay Miller (13:28):
Yeah, it really, really does.
And I, you know, there's onething about being overwhelmed
and like feeling emotion that'sreally fascinating to me.
Well, there are a lot of things, but one of the things about it
and you touched on it when youjust were talking about patterns
and reactivity is that if wehave emotions that haven't kind
of been organized in ourselves,one of the things that can
(13:49):
happen is those emotions cankind of get stuck.
So if you think about it like aconveyor belt and like the
emotions are running alonginside you and eventually they
need to get organized, and atfirst it's just this felt sense,
right, and then it goes downthe conveyor belt and then it
gets organized into like thisone with this experience, this
emotion.
You know tethers with this.
This is how we're going toapply or respond to this emotion
(14:10):
, right, this is how weunderstand it.
Well, what can happen and I findthis especially true for people
in traumatic or stressfulexperiences is we can be
triggered by emotions we've hadpreviously that didn't kind of
get organized.
So if you think about it likethat conveyor belt, if you this
is Dan Siegel's work too If youhave an emotion that reminds you
(14:32):
of an emotion that didn't getorganized.
What happens is you get boththe emotion Like so you get an
emotion that's really old and isjust like this felt sense that
didn't ever find a place to beorganized in you and you didn't
ever kind of process it properlyor with the kind of intention
that you needed to.
And so what happens is if youhave another emotion that feels
(14:53):
similar, both kind of gluetogether and it's kind of like
it's stuck on your conveyor beltand it's just like.
And so with mindfulness we canstart to be a little more
discerning.
And this comes intorelationships pretty heavily,
because a lot of times whathappens is is when those stuck
feelings come into play, itreally affects our relationships
.
One example would be like if youhad a situation where, say,
(15:14):
you've been married previouslyand you had some, you know, some
relational trauma from adivorce and you were engaging in
a new relationship, but you hadthings come up, situations come
up, that kind of reminded youof the old trauma in your
relationship, well, what canhappen is you can respond to the
new relationship, like with thepatterns of the old trauma, but
(15:35):
when we're mindful we can kindof sift through it and process
it.
You know, maybe we're workingwith a therapist, maybe we're
working with journaling,whatever to kind of put those
emotions in their place.
Like that is from thatexperience.
This current experience maybehas some similarities or the
feeling is similar, but this isa different scenario and I can
respond excuse me, I can respondintentionally in a way that
(15:56):
reflects what this relationshipis and what's going on right now
, in the present instead of thatpast.
You know, responding as thoughthis is a stress from the past.
Lorie Tesny (16:04):
Just that example of the relationship situation.
Sometimes those things happenin a split second.
How do you derail that reactionwhen it's happening that fast
in real time?
Lindsay Miller (16:17):
Yeah, that's such a great question.
This is again Dan Siegel's work, but he talks about this idea
of green zones and how we havethe ability in our brain to
operate from a place of relaxedreadiness, like we can, in any
situation, respond with relaxedreadiness.
Well, what that looks like isjust being able to take what
comes and be a little bit moreflexible with it, and there are
(16:41):
alternate.
So he talks about it as a river, so like if we have this flow
in the river, relaxed readinessin this flow state is in the
middle and that's when we canmove down the river of our life
in a way that is very adaptable.
You know, we don't have troublewith new situations and we can
really handle stress with alevel of resilience that gets us
through it, you know, withoutcompounding the stress.
(17:03):
And then on either side of theriver we have, like this sense
of rigidity and this sense ofchaos.
So if you think about it like ariver with like a big stone
wall on one side, and then onthe other side there are these
little reeds like weeds and youcan just get stuck over there in
the chaos.
So a lot of times our reactionswill be either one or the other
, and the middle is this greenzone.
(17:23):
Right, the middle is the spacewhere we can flow with our life
and move forward in a way thatdoesn't get us stuck and doesn't
leave us like battered againstthis, you know, stone wall.
And so, again, having thepractices in place to just watch
our thoughts allows that greenzone or that river to widen.
So when we practice justbreathing and watching our
(17:44):
thoughts, when we practiceresponding to situations and
I'll go through this otheracronym in just a minute when we
practice responding tosituations and just trying to
widen that space just a littlebit, and it comes over time, we
can end up with a pretty widegreen zone.
Another way you can practicethis idea of presence is in just
(18:05):
simple activities and movementthroughout the day.
So you can start to move withmore intention and mindfulness.
So that might look likenoticing when your toe hits the
ground when you're walkingversus when your heel hits,
being aware of when your archflattens when you're walking,
you know and then, as you pickyour foot up, noticing how heavy
your foot is.
It could be hand washing You'rewashing your hands, really
(18:25):
feeling the bubbles or the soapon your hands, noticing the
temperature of the water andjust moving, slowly, slowing
down, to just get really present.
You'll slowly, over time, seethat green zone start to widen
and then the next time you're ina situation say it is
relational where you're going onthat knee jerk reaction and
you're just making, you knowyou're having a response that is
(18:48):
maybe not the most productive.
In that moment you'll stop andI watch people do this again and
again and they'll say to me Ifinally did it.
Like I've been thinking that Ineeded to do this.
I've been thinking I justneeded to hold my tongue for a
minute and think through what Iwanted to say, but I finally was
able to do it Like I had enough, you know, self-control or
discipline at that point that mygreen zone was big enough that
(19:10):
I could stop in that moment,take an intentional response and
then you know, see what happens.
And so, again, it's just timeand those simple, simple daily
practices.
You just have to start right.
Start today, do something you'renot fully today and then it
will start to trickle into allthese other areas of your life
where it will have a big impact.
Lorie Tesny (19:28):
And so the more you do this, it's something so
continual in your life that ifyou do it and you start doing it
more and more every day, thatdoes lead to having that
experience.
If you do have a situationwhere you have that moment to
just think and build up to that,that's a great example and the
visuals are amazing.
(19:48):
You never know what happens inlife.
I think it's part of yourarsenal of things that you need
in your back pocket to have inpractice and to become more in
that moment and better yourself,to be more accepting and
working through those glitchesthat you have of being reactive
(20:10):
to something.
So I appreciate that.
Thank you.
Lindsay Miller (20:13):
Yeah, my pleasure and I think you really.
Yeah, what you just said isgreat, because I think that idea
of acceptance is one that wemay be fight and one of the
things about mindfulness that'sgreat.
And a lot of people, when theyfirst practice, they're like I
can't do it, I cannot do this,I'm not.
You know meditation.
They were like my mind justwon't stop, it just won't stop
(20:33):
and it's.
It's fascinating to me and Ilove watching people connect
with the idea that you'reactually not supposed to stop
your mind.
Like that's not the idea.
The idea is to just observe it,understand what's going on and
then make an intentional choice.
Right, and so I love that youcould connect with the analogy.
And I think the thing that Isee the most from people is that
when they find themselves on,you know, say, they're over in
(20:57):
the reeds and they're feelingoverwhelmed, or their boats
bashing up against the you knowstone wall and they're just
feeling that sense of rigidityinternally, Like, unless this
happens, I'm not going to beokay, they get frustrated with
themselves in those moments andthey think like why can't I just
do it?
Why can't I just be in themiddle of the river?
And, part of the practice Iwould even say the most
important part of the practiceis gracefully acknowledging that
(21:20):
and accepting those moments andthen, just like, doing what you
can to try to move toward yourgreen zone, you know, move
toward the middle of the river.
But it's not that we don't havethose moments because, like you
said, we all do but it's thegraceful handling of them and
the acceptance of them thatallows us to move forward and
not beat ourselves up Like wenever beat ourselves up that we
(21:41):
hit the rock wall.
We don't beat ourselves up thatwe got stuck in the reeds.
We just acknowledge and thenmove forward.
And it's that practice,repeatedly, that is the thing
that changes you.
It's that grace and thatpatience with yourself that
changes every situation.
Because once you can start tocultivate that within your own
self, it's much easier to giveit to other people.
So when we're in thoserelationship moments, if we can
(22:03):
be patient with ourselves andsay, oh my gosh, I am completely
operating under, you know, anold relational pattern.
Or you know what my co workerreally frustrated me today and
that's why I'm getting mad at myyou know, my partner right now
that if we can have the grace tonot beat ourselves up in that
right and be like I can'tbelieve I did that and so I
can't just write.
You know, we often and it'snormal we get stuck there, and
(22:26):
so the goal then is, when youcultivate this awareness, to do
so with as much grace as you canmuster and then just be like
huh, you know, I did just reactabout something that happened
earlier today and had nothing todo with you, and I'm really
sorry, you know, and then let itgo.
We just the grace tends to flowwhen we can give it to
ourselves.
Lorie Tesny (22:44):
So all this practicing and and being mindful
and paying attention andshifting how you react or
respond to things.
How does that play intoresilience and getting through
challenges?
Lindsay Miller (22:58):
That's such a great question, and one of the
things that Dan Siegel talksabout that I really love is his
analogy is coal, and it'scuriosity, openness, acceptance
and love, and this is somethingthat didn't come easily for me
at all.
This is a practice that Iworked for quite some time to
adopt and I would say it's oneof the biggest players in my
(23:20):
resilience tool belt is beingable to approach any situation
with a sense of curiosity, likewhat's actually going on here,
because our brains can't beafraid and curious at the same
time.
They're not wired for that.
So if we can shift from a fearstate during times of stress to
a curiosity state, that'salready just going to give us a
huge bonus in terms of themental faculties that are
(23:42):
available to us.
So we go into something withcuriosity.
We're open to differentoutcomes, and that can be really
hard during stressful times,right, especially when it comes
to health, like we want acertain outcome.
But when we are open, we arelooking at different options.
We're willing to see differentpathways forward.
Just as you know, we don't wantto have a ton of rigidity.
(24:03):
When we can be open todifferent options, we avail
ourselves of a ton of our owncreativity, but also the
insights that might come to usfrom others.
We see solutions in differentplaces than maybe what we were
used to, and so that's huge.
And then acceptance we canaccept different, like if it's a
health struggle, we can acceptdifferent diagnoses or different
(24:26):
prognoses along the way, and wecan do so from a place of not
fighting them.
And one of the thingsmindfulness can really give us a
boost in is this idea of justaccepting what is and then
working there.
And I know, you know, in timeswhen there are things involved
that are less than appealing,that can be especially
challenging, right, whether it'sreally, whether it's in life,
(24:48):
whether it's in health, butagain, the only options we have
are in this moment.
So the sooner we can accept thismoment, the sooner we can take
action and move forward inwhatever that looks like, in a
way that's going to allow us tocreate the most meaning that we
can.
And the longer we go about notaccepting this moment, the
longer we put off any realdecisions that we could be
(25:11):
making.
And so when we can practicethis idea of acceptance and just
be open to different solutions,scenarios like outcomes, and do
so with a sense of curiositythat's going to lead us to that
L in coal which is love, and wecan accept ourselves right and
offer ourselves love, and thenwe can offer love to those
around us because we're notfeeling stuck, we're not
(25:32):
fighting the situation thatwe're in.
And so I would say practicingmindfulness over time allows us
to cultivate these qualitiesthis curiosity, openness,
acceptance and love in a lot ofsituations.
And when we can approachsituations with those qualities,
our level of resilienceskyrockets because we're in a
position to just respond, andrespond intentionally instead of
(25:54):
being reactive.
Lorie Tesny (25:56):
I just think about the all the elements of what
happens in a day in a life andhow many opportunities we have
to make choices and how excitingit is that just making one
decision different, making onething better in a day, how much
(26:17):
that changes tomorrow and thenext day and the next day, and
how you can build on that simplechange to better your life and
be in a different place.
The thing that was striking mewas the turning the fear into
curiosity.
Like you know, when somebodytells you your health is being
(26:37):
challenged, when you're goingthrough something that's very
serious, it is very overwhelmingand you are in that fear state
and your mind does do thatreeling of what ifs and it's
flipping the switch and bringingthat curiosity into it and
being more open to justunderstanding a little bit more
(26:58):
and taking the power away fromthe fear, just having that sense
of peace and calm and workingthrough it and all these visuals
that you've put into place ofhow to adjust that thinking and
how to adapt to a new way ofliving, more in the intentional
and calm ways.
That makes a world ofdifference.
(27:19):
And it's just slow, repetitiveand giving yourself a break if
you mess up, but beingconsistent with it as best you
can, to get to the point whereyou tip the scale, and it's not
so much a hard thing to do.
It starts coming naturally.
So I think that's an amazingaspect to everything you do, and
how powerful these things arethat you've talked about today.
(27:41):
By paying attention to thepresent moment without judgment,
you can reduce your stress,improve focus and increase your
self awareness.
Mindfulness can be practicedthrough meditation, yoga or even
simply by being aware of yourthoughts and feelings as they
(28:01):
arise.
This insightful conversation.
We learned to invitemindfulness and resilience into
our daily lives.
If you're feeling like you'reneglecting your own well-being,
it's important to talk to adoctor or therapist.
They can help you develop aplan to manage your stress and
improve your overall health.
(28:21):
You can learn more aboutLindsay on her website at
thestressnannycom.
I'll make sure to include thelink to the full episode in the
description.
It's time to feel empowered.
It's time to make every choicecount.
If you or someone you careabout would like to share their
experience, or if you know anorganization to help even just
(28:43):
one person, message me throughmy website.
Just go tosailingthroughlifepodcastcom to
help out.
Stay Anchored.
Chat with you next time.
Are you so engulfed in your daily life that you've
forgotten to take care ofyourself?
Tapping into our reality andmaking small changes can shift
the course we're on.
I found myself looking fordirection and understanding in
my own situation.
If you want to find balanceagain in the chaos of life, keep
listening.
Hello and welcome to SailingThrough Life.
(00:26):
I'm Lori, your host and friend.
Join me as I shareconversations that give you hope
through the storms of life.
You'll find inspiration throughthe experiences of my guests,
as well as hearing my own crazy,wonderful adventure.
Create the life you desire bydiscovering new ways to focus on
your health and well-beingthrough modifying your habits
(00:49):
and improving your mindset.
Set sail with me on thisjourney to realize the strength
and resilience you have inside.
Let us show you how, as yousail through life.
Welcome aboard.
Thank you for sharing your timewith me today.
(01:12):
You are extremely important tome and this show, and I'm
grateful for you being here.
I hope to continue to bringinspiration to your day every
day.
Want to be a part of the crew.
Support us by sharing this showwith your friends and family
and by making a contributionfinancially to help us to
(01:32):
continue to grow the show.
You can learn more atsailingthroughlifepodcastcom.
My cancer experience made meconfront difficult choices head
on, which has reshaped myperspective on life and what's
truly important.
I'm drawing strength from thesupport of my friends and family
(01:55):
as I embark on this journey ofself-discovery, dealing with the
emotional side of loss,including the challenge of
identity.
Resilience is the ability tobounce back from difficult or
challenging situations.
It's a learned skill that canbe developed through practice.
People who are resilient areable to cope with stress and
(02:20):
adversity in a healthy way.
They're also able to seesetbacks as temporary and learn
from them.
They're able to maintain apositive outlook even in tough
times.
It's important to take care ofyourself, both physically and
mentally.
If you feel overwhelmed andexhausted by your current
(02:42):
circumstances, it's important totake some time for yourself to
relax and de-stress.
You may want to try taking awalk, reading a book or spending
time with people who ignite you.
It's important to continuehealthy habits, with eating
healthy and getting enough sleep.
Your mental health is key toall of it.
(03:06):
Today I'm going back to aprevious conversation, so relax,
take a deep breath and join usas we unravel the transformative
power of mindfulness andself-care.
With my past guest, lindsayMiller, we explore the
importance of slowing down,prioritizing activities that
(03:26):
bring joy, and how beingintentional about our time can
lead to a more fulfilling life.
Just being in tune withyourself and being aware of when
you're in a good place, payingattention to that, and when
things start to slide, notingwhat are those things and
addressing them right away.
(03:47):
And I think that's a wonderfulthought process is to catch
things when they're early andnot wait until things have
gotten to a point where you're,like you said, go to the doctor
and find things out.
I think everybody's just sogeared anymore that you just go,
go, go and you don't even payattention anymore to the simple
things because you're so focusedon next week or whatever is
(04:10):
going on outside of you thatit's it's hard to be in the
moment and slow down enough andand modifying that behavior to
the point where you can reallypay attention and really stop.
And a lot of the people I endup talking to on this podcast
have been in that position wherethey've just pushed so hard
that their bodies have saidenough already and if you're not
(04:32):
going to listen, I'm going togive you something to make you
listen and it's scary to thinkthat for some reason it's, you
know, socially or whatever,acceptable to push yourself to
that extreme and that people areexpected to work at that level.
That's it's so destructive andit really does create more
situations health wise, mentallyand physically that take you
(04:56):
away from doing the things youcould have been doing.
Lindsay Miller (04:59):
Then if you just slowed down in the first place
and kind of broke it off intosmaller sections or, like you
said, start saying no a littlebit more, so that you have that
time for yourself to recharge,yeah, yeah, it's such a great
point that we don't giveourselves the permission maybe
sometimes and you know we don'tneed permission to be human and
to have bodies that have needsor, you know, to need sleep, but
(05:20):
our culture doesn't reinforcethose things with any kind of
regularity usually, and so weend up needing to really be
intentional about it, right?
And, like you're saying, say,okay, I'm going to make this
conscious decision to not runmyself ragged, to not, you know,
stay up until two in themorning every night.
And it's surprising to me, youknow, I'll look back at my sleep
(05:43):
habits before and you know thefact that I made it for as long
as I did without having a healthcrisis with the kind of sleep I
was giving my body.
It's kind of astounding, youknow, right?
Oh, no.
Lorie Tesny (05:55):
I agree.
Lindsay Miller (05:57):
Yeah, I agree.
So I think that there's so muchvalue in just owning and
honoring those needs.
And I you know the people thatI work with in cultivating
habits that promote self-caresleep is one of the hardest ones
, because they feel weak or theyfeel lazy, or they feel, you
know and we're not talking aboutgoing to bed at 530, we're
talking to go about going to bedat 10 or 930.
(06:19):
But to them they're like that'slike four hours of my day, you
know, like I can't.
What am I going to do?
How do I, how do I geteverything done If I go to sleep
?
Then, and I was like, well, youdon't, you know you do less
things.
In my own life, I found thatwhen I chose to prioritize sleep
and when I chose to prioritizeself-care, I got a lot more
(06:40):
discerning about what I allowedinto those awake hours, because
all of a sudden, they weren'tunlimited anymore.
Right, I was giving myself likea finite number of hours to get
things done each day, and so Ifound myself filling them with
very intentional activities, andit created additional meaning
for me because I was not justtaking whatever came my way and
(07:03):
not just saying yes all the time, but I was, like you said,
really honoring that moment,what I had to give, what was
being asked of me, and then, youknow, noting whether it was
something I wanted to engagewith.
And when we can get to thatlevel of presence and not just
run on autopilot and say yes allthe time and feel overwhelmed
all the time, we really do giveourselves an additional level of
(07:27):
meaning in our lives, becausewe fill our lives with the
things that matter most to usinstead of just whatever comes
our way.
Lorie Tesny (07:33):
So this goes along the lines of being more mindful
and trying to really just putthings in perspective.
Try to understand better whatis working for you and what are
some of the things you can weedout.
What would you give as anexample to a client?
Something to do to practicemore mindfulness?
Lindsay Miller (07:57):
I'm so glad you asked.
As you know, I love talking.
It's a really great question.
So one of the things that Ithink is really important to
understand about mindfulness isthat it can become a way of life
and it takes practice.
So when we just get started, wedon't want to berate ourselves
if this doesn't come easily.
It just takes time and wereally are making changes in our
(08:18):
brains that allow this to comeabout.
So don't try it once or twiceand then give up if you don't
feel like it's having theresults that I'm about to
describe, because it does taketime.
But one of the things that Ithink is great to consider is
this idea of open monitoring andthen very specific present
moment.
So there's a part of our brainthat is designed to kind of
(08:38):
watch us and that can sound alittle bit weird or
uncomfortable for people.
You can consider it like, maybe, if you're in like a factory,
say the Crayola factory, andyou're watching the crayons get
made, and you're walking alongthat high level area above the
factory and kind of looking atall the things that are going on
down below, um, you're noticingthe processes individually.
(08:59):
Then you can see everything andhow it kind of fits together
and how eventually, at the end,you get this crayon right.
So there's a part of our brainthat's designed to do that, to
kind of keep tabs on all thedifferent things I'll, you know,
like our emotional awareness,our physical wellbeing, our
senses, how we're relating toother people.
There's a part of our braindesigned to do that.
We don't always give it a tonof exercise, so sometimes it's
not the strongest part of ourbrain.
(09:20):
So an example of that this weekmy um, my daughter, had a
concussion and so in our housewe, you know, had this, the
added layer of stress, right.
We had just come off a weekendwhere we'd had company in town.
We didn't have a ton of umsleep, you know, we would stay
up late chatting, so we werealready tired.
Um, she has this like trauma.
So then we have the concussionwe're dealing with, and then we
(09:43):
also, you know, I've got to beinterfacing with her school and
we're interfacing with thedoctor and luckily it's minor,
but she still has to take someinterventions to, you know, to
recover.
So I'm recalibrating myschedules, I'm working on
figuring out what she needs andmaking sure she has the support
she needs but also the quiet andrest and it's really out of
routine for us, right?
So in that moment, what I cando is I can get really stressed
(10:05):
and, um, frustrated and anxiousabout all the different pieces
that are going on, or I can kindof go up to that catwalk right,
that place above, where I'mobserving what's going on and
saying Lindsay, in this momentyou have a lot on your plate,
right, like you already aretired, so maybe getting some
sleep is going to be important.
Over here you're working onfiguring out how to organize her
(10:26):
schoolwork and all these thingsthat are going on, and that's
going to be stressful becauseyou didn't anticipate that as
part of your week and you'realready trying to catch up from
having company.
So give yourself a break.
You know, be patient withyourself this week, because
you're navigating quite a fewthings.
You have a lot going on in yourfactory that you're not used to
and you're trying to get somenew processes up and running and
it's just going to take sometime and energy.
So make sure you're caring foryourself and maybe say no to a
(10:48):
couple of things.
You know I rescheduled a bunchof appointments and just tried
to create space so that I couldaddress what was going on in our
life At the same time having,like present moment, awareness
about the stress.
That looked like me being atthe doctor's office with her and
you know we're talking to thedoctor and just being really
clear about what her symptomsare.
So those symptoms felt a littlescary to me.
(11:11):
So my tendency- was maybe to shyaway from them or want to gloss
over them.
And so when she would come to mewith a new symptom this week,
I'd say, okay, that's greatinformation for us to have and
really just sit in that presentmoment and watch.
But I think in like a dailypractice what that looks like.
It really does just look likesitting for a couple of minutes
a day and like watching yourthoughts and that's where I
(11:32):
always tell people to start Likethey sit by your bed right
after you wake up for twominutes and just sit there and
breathe and then consider, likeyou're on the side of a river
and your thoughts are the riverright and you're just watching
your thought river go by andyou're watching the thoughts
that you're having.
You're watching your emotions,you're watching whatever's
coming, your memories, worries,and instead of being in the
(11:53):
thick of them and getting kindof beaten around by them and
like drowning in those, you'rejust taking a few steps out,
sitting on the rock at the sideof the river and watching them
float by.
And so it sounds so simple.
But just a practice like thatleads to those moments I
described this week right, wherewhen you just can do that
consistently and start to tuneinto that part of your brain
that can be the observer andthen simultaneously connect with
(12:16):
your just really present momentawareness.
It leads to this ability toreally engage with life from a
big picture perspective and thenwith present moment awareness,
which creates a kind ofmindfulness magic.
That's really great.
Lorie Tesny (12:30):
Trying to just be outside of yourself and observe
from a distance or, like you'resaying, sitting on the edge of
the river and watching all thatgo by and not being consumed by
it, and really just being aware,just inventorying what is going
on right now and having thatsense of calm it, you really you
take the power away from the,the stress and the overwhelmed
(12:53):
feelings because you're outsideof it and just breaking it down
into the simple things that arehappening.
It does really change the waythings play out because you're
not caught up in the emotion ofit.
You're taking that time to becalm and understand and make
educated decisions and not kneejerk reactions to things.
(13:15):
If you can catch yourself andput yourself outside of it to
really just stop and observe howmuch difference that makes in
going through something you knowin your life, a challenge that
you have.
Lindsay Miller (13:28):
Yeah, it really, really does.
And I, you know, there's onething about being overwhelmed
and like feeling emotion that'sreally fascinating to me.
Well, there are a lot of things, but one of the things about it
and you touched on it when youjust were talking about patterns
and reactivity is that if wehave emotions that haven't kind
of been organized in ourselves,one of the things that can
(13:49):
happen is those emotions cankind of get stuck.
So if you think about it like aconveyor belt and like the
emotions are running alonginside you and eventually they
need to get organized, and atfirst it's just this felt sense,
right, and then it goes downthe conveyor belt and then it
gets organized into like thisone with this experience, this
emotion.
You know tethers with this.
This is how we're going toapply or respond to this emotion
(14:10):
, right, this is how weunderstand it.
Well, what can happen and I findthis especially true for people
in traumatic or stressfulexperiences is we can be
triggered by emotions we've hadpreviously that didn't kind of
get organized.
So if you think about it likethat conveyor belt, if you this
is Dan Siegel's work too If youhave an emotion that reminds you
(14:32):
of an emotion that didn't getorganized.
What happens is you get boththe emotion Like so you get an
emotion that's really old and isjust like this felt sense that
didn't ever find a place to beorganized in you and you didn't
ever kind of process it properlyor with the kind of intention
that you needed to.
And so what happens is if youhave another emotion that feels
(14:53):
similar, both kind of gluetogether and it's kind of like
it's stuck on your conveyor beltand it's just like.
And so with mindfulness we canstart to be a little more
discerning.
And this comes intorelationships pretty heavily,
because a lot of times whathappens is is when those stuck
feelings come into play, itreally affects our relationships
.
One example would be like if youhad a situation where, say,
(15:14):
you've been married previouslyand you had some, you know, some
relational trauma from adivorce and you were engaging in
a new relationship, but you hadthings come up, situations come
up, that kind of reminded youof the old trauma in your
relationship, well, what canhappen is you can respond to the
new relationship, like with thepatterns of the old trauma, but
(15:35):
when we're mindful we can kindof sift through it and process
it.
You know, maybe we're workingwith a therapist, maybe we're
working with journaling,whatever to kind of put those
emotions in their place.
Like that is from thatexperience.
This current experience maybehas some similarities or the
feeling is similar, but this isa different scenario and I can
respond excuse me, I can respondintentionally in a way that
(15:56):
reflects what this relationshipis and what's going on right now
, in the present instead of thatpast.
You know, responding as thoughthis is a stress from the past.
Lorie Tesny (16:04):
Just that example of the relationship situation.
Sometimes those things happenin a split second.
How do you derail that reactionwhen it's happening that fast
in real time?
Lindsay Miller (16:17):
Yeah, that's such a great question.
This is again Dan Siegel's work, but he talks about this idea
of green zones and how we havethe ability in our brain to
operate from a place of relaxedreadiness, like we can, in any
situation, respond with relaxedreadiness.
Well, what that looks like isjust being able to take what
comes and be a little bit moreflexible with it, and there are
(16:41):
alternate.
So he talks about it as a river, so like if we have this flow
in the river, relaxed readinessin this flow state is in the
middle and that's when we canmove down the river of our life
in a way that is very adaptable.
You know, we don't have troublewith new situations and we can
really handle stress with alevel of resilience that gets us
through it, you know, withoutcompounding the stress.
(17:03):
And then on either side of theriver we have, like this sense
of rigidity and this sense ofchaos.
So if you think about it like ariver with like a big stone
wall on one side, and then onthe other side there are these
little reeds like weeds and youcan just get stuck over there in
the chaos.
So a lot of times our reactionswill be either one or the other
, and the middle is this greenzone.
(17:23):
Right, the middle is the spacewhere we can flow with our life
and move forward in a way thatdoesn't get us stuck and doesn't
leave us like battered againstthis, you know, stone wall.
And so, again, having thepractices in place to just watch
our thoughts allows that greenzone or that river to widen.
So when we practice justbreathing and watching our
(17:44):
thoughts, when we practiceresponding to situations and
I'll go through this otheracronym in just a minute when we
practice responding tosituations and just trying to
widen that space just a littlebit, and it comes over time, we
can end up with a pretty widegreen zone.
Another way you can practicethis idea of presence is in just
(18:05):
simple activities and movementthroughout the day.
So you can start to move withmore intention and mindfulness.
So that might look likenoticing when your toe hits the
ground when you're walkingversus when your heel hits,
being aware of when your archflattens when you're walking,
you know and then, as you pickyour foot up, noticing how heavy
your foot is.
It could be hand washing You'rewashing your hands, really
(18:25):
feeling the bubbles or the soapon your hands, noticing the
temperature of the water andjust moving, slowly, slowing
down, to just get really present.
You'll slowly, over time, seethat green zone start to widen
and then the next time you're ina situation say it is
relational where you're going onthat knee jerk reaction and
you're just making, you knowyou're having a response that is
(18:48):
maybe not the most productive.
In that moment you'll stop andI watch people do this again and
again and they'll say to me Ifinally did it.
Like I've been thinking that Ineeded to do this.
I've been thinking I justneeded to hold my tongue for a
minute and think through what Iwanted to say, but I finally was
able to do it Like I had enough, you know, self-control or
discipline at that point that mygreen zone was big enough that
(19:10):
I could stop in that moment,take an intentional response and
then you know, see what happens.
And so, again, it's just timeand those simple, simple daily
practices.
You just have to start right.
Start today, do something you'renot fully today and then it
will start to trickle into allthese other areas of your life
where it will have a big impact.
Lorie Tesny (19:28):
And so the more you do this, it's something so
continual in your life that ifyou do it and you start doing it
more and more every day, thatdoes lead to having that
experience.
If you do have a situationwhere you have that moment to
just think and build up to that,that's a great example and the
visuals are amazing.
(19:48):
You never know what happens inlife.
I think it's part of yourarsenal of things that you need
in your back pocket to have inpractice and to become more in
that moment and better yourself,to be more accepting and
working through those glitchesthat you have of being reactive
(20:10):
to something.
So I appreciate that.
Thank you.
Lindsay Miller (20:13):
Yeah, my pleasure and I think you really.
Yeah, what you just said isgreat, because I think that idea
of acceptance is one that wemay be fight and one of the
things about mindfulness that'sgreat.
And a lot of people, when theyfirst practice, they're like I
can't do it, I cannot do this,I'm not.
You know meditation.
They were like my mind justwon't stop, it just won't stop
(20:33):
and it's.
It's fascinating to me and Ilove watching people connect
with the idea that you'reactually not supposed to stop
your mind.
Like that's not the idea.
The idea is to just observe it,understand what's going on and
then make an intentional choice.
Right, and so I love that youcould connect with the analogy.
And I think the thing that Isee the most from people is that
when they find themselves on,you know, say, they're over in
(20:57):
the reeds and they're feelingoverwhelmed, or their boats
bashing up against the you knowstone wall and they're just
feeling that sense of rigidityinternally, Like, unless this
happens, I'm not going to beokay, they get frustrated with
themselves in those moments andthey think like why can't I just
do it?
Why can't I just be in themiddle of the river?
And, part of the practice Iwould even say the most
important part of the practiceis gracefully acknowledging that
(21:20):
and accepting those moments andthen, just like, doing what you
can to try to move toward yourgreen zone, you know, move
toward the middle of the river.
But it's not that we don't havethose moments because, like you
said, we all do but it's thegraceful handling of them and
the acceptance of them thatallows us to move forward and
not beat ourselves up Like wenever beat ourselves up that we
(21:41):
hit the rock wall.
We don't beat ourselves up thatwe got stuck in the reeds.
We just acknowledge and thenmove forward.
And it's that practice,repeatedly, that is the thing
that changes you.
It's that grace and thatpatience with yourself that
changes every situation.
Because once you can start tocultivate that within your own
self, it's much easier to giveit to other people.
So when we're in thoserelationship moments, if we can
(22:03):
be patient with ourselves andsay, oh my gosh, I am completely
operating under, you know, anold relational pattern.
Or you know what my co workerreally frustrated me today and
that's why I'm getting mad at myyou know, my partner right now
that if we can have the grace tonot beat ourselves up in that
right and be like I can'tbelieve I did that and so I
can't just write.
You know, we often and it'snormal we get stuck there, and
(22:26):
so the goal then is, when youcultivate this awareness, to do
so with as much grace as you canmuster and then just be like
huh, you know, I did just reactabout something that happened
earlier today and had nothing todo with you, and I'm really
sorry, you know, and then let itgo.
We just the grace tends to flowwhen we can give it to
ourselves.
Lorie Tesny (22:44):
So all this practicing and and being mindful
and paying attention andshifting how you react or
respond to things.
How does that play intoresilience and getting through
challenges?
Lindsay Miller (22:58):
That's such a great question, and one of the
things that Dan Siegel talksabout that I really love is his
analogy is coal, and it'scuriosity, openness, acceptance
and love, and this is somethingthat didn't come easily for me
at all.
This is a practice that Iworked for quite some time to
adopt and I would say it's oneof the biggest players in my
(23:20):
resilience tool belt is beingable to approach any situation
with a sense of curiosity, likewhat's actually going on here,
because our brains can't beafraid and curious at the same
time.
They're not wired for that.
So if we can shift from a fearstate during times of stress to
a curiosity state, that'salready just going to give us a
huge bonus in terms of themental faculties that are
(23:42):
available to us.
So we go into something withcuriosity.
We're open to differentoutcomes, and that can be really
hard during stressful times,right, especially when it comes
to health, like we want acertain outcome.
But when we are open, we arelooking at different options.
We're willing to see differentpathways forward.
Just as you know, we don't wantto have a ton of rigidity.
(24:03):
When we can be open todifferent options, we avail
ourselves of a ton of our owncreativity, but also the
insights that might come to usfrom others.
We see solutions in differentplaces than maybe what we were
used to, and so that's huge.
And then acceptance we canaccept different, like if it's a
health struggle, we can acceptdifferent diagnoses or different
(24:26):
prognoses along the way, and wecan do so from a place of not
fighting them.
And one of the thingsmindfulness can really give us a
boost in is this idea of justaccepting what is and then
working there.
And I know, you know, in timeswhen there are things involved
that are less than appealing,that can be especially
challenging, right, whether it'sreally, whether it's in life,
(24:48):
whether it's in health, butagain, the only options we have
are in this moment.
So the sooner we can accept thismoment, the sooner we can take
action and move forward inwhatever that looks like, in a
way that's going to allow us tocreate the most meaning that we
can.
And the longer we go about notaccepting this moment, the
longer we put off any realdecisions that we could be
(25:11):
making.
And so when we can practicethis idea of acceptance and just
be open to different solutions,scenarios like outcomes, and do
so with a sense of curiositythat's going to lead us to that
L in coal which is love, and wecan accept ourselves right and
offer ourselves love, and thenwe can offer love to those
around us because we're notfeeling stuck, we're not
(25:32):
fighting the situation thatwe're in.
And so I would say practicingmindfulness over time allows us
to cultivate these qualitiesthis curiosity, openness,
acceptance and love in a lot ofsituations.
And when we can approachsituations with those qualities,
our level of resilienceskyrockets because we're in a
position to just respond, andrespond intentionally instead of
(25:54):
being reactive.
Lorie Tesny (25:56):
I just think about the all the elements of what
happens in a day in a life andhow many opportunities we have
to make choices and how excitingit is that just making one
decision different, making onething better in a day, how much
(26:17):
that changes tomorrow and thenext day and the next day, and
how you can build on that simplechange to better your life and
be in a different place.
The thing that was striking mewas the turning the fear into
curiosity.
Like you know, when somebodytells you your health is being
(26:37):
challenged, when you're goingthrough something that's very
serious, it is very overwhelmingand you are in that fear state
and your mind does do thatreeling of what ifs and it's
flipping the switch and bringingthat curiosity into it and
being more open to justunderstanding a little bit more
(26:58):
and taking the power away fromthe fear, just having that sense
of peace and calm and workingthrough it and all these visuals
that you've put into place ofhow to adjust that thinking and
how to adapt to a new way ofliving, more in the intentional
and calm ways.
That makes a world ofdifference.
(27:19):
And it's just slow, repetitiveand giving yourself a break if
you mess up, but beingconsistent with it as best you
can, to get to the point whereyou tip the scale, and it's not
so much a hard thing to do.
It starts coming naturally.
So I think that's an amazingaspect to everything you do, and
how powerful these things arethat you've talked about today.
(27:41):
By paying attention to thepresent moment without judgment,
you can reduce your stress,improve focus and increase your
self awareness.
Mindfulness can be practicedthrough meditation, yoga or even
simply by being aware of yourthoughts and feelings as they
(28:01):
arise.
This insightful conversation.
We learned to invitemindfulness and resilience into
our daily lives.
If you're feeling like you'reneglecting your own well-being,
it's important to talk to adoctor or therapist.
They can help you develop aplan to manage your stress and
improve your overall health.
(28:21):
You can learn more aboutLindsay on her website at
thestressnannycom.
I'll make sure to include thelink to the full episode in the
description.
It's time to feel empowered.
It's time to make every choicecount.
If you or someone you careabout would like to share their
experience, or if you know anorganization to help even just
(28:43):
one person, message me throughmy website.
Just go tosailingthroughlifepodcastcom to
help out.
Stay Anchored.
Chat with you next time.
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