August 18, 2024 • 32 mins
Episode 171. This week we go back to school...again! Timothy's new role as the Director of Education at the Sake Studies Center at Brooklyn Kura is the focus of today's episode. The Sake Studies Center is the new sake school on the block, offering education, tastings and brewery tours for professionals and sake-curious consumers alike at our state-of-the-art facility at Industry City in Brooklyn. It's also a sake community center where other sake educators can bring their classes and special events. As the only sake school in the U.S. attached to a working sake brewery, it really is the best place to "learn about sake where sake is made!" We hope you'll join us for a seminar or tasting soon. Listen in for all the details! #SakeRevolution
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Episode Transcript
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John Puma (00:22):
Hello everybody.
And welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's first sakepodcast, and I am one of your
hosts.
My name is John Puma.
I'm from the Sake Notes.
I'm also from the internet SakeDiscord and Reddit's R/ Sake
community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:37):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai.
I'm a sake educator, as well asthe founder of the Urban Sake
website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, and doingour best to make it fun and easy
to understand.
John Puma (00:54):
Hello there, Tim.
How are you today?
Timothy Sullivan (00:56):
John, how's it going?
John Puma (00:58):
It's going well, it's going pretty well.
Um, I have a confession to make.
I
Timothy Sullivan (01:03):
love true confessions.
John Puma (01:05):
I have yet to begin my sake revolution resolution
for this year, 20 and 24.
I know we talked, I talked agood game,
Timothy Sullivan (01:16):
sure did.
John Puma (01:17):
but I haven't done anything about it yet.
Timothy Sullivan (01:20):
Well, remind our listeners at home what your
resolution was for this year.
John Puma (01:24):
my resolution was to get some formal sake education.
most of my education, I am selftaught, I guess you'd say.
And you know, I've done it byreading books, by tasting
things, by going places, bydoing things.
I haven't had the thing whereyou sit down and actually learn
the thing.
And I find that in a lot ofplaces in your life, you do
(01:49):
learn a lot from hands on.
experience.
But you do have holes in yourwisdom when you don't get proper
education.
Uh, you know, there's a lot ofconcepts that I understand, but
I don't necessarily know thenames of those concepts and how
and why I know the thing.
I don't know the why.
And so the idea is I want tolearn all those things and have
(02:11):
Some kind of certification thatI can put on my wall or, uh, or,
or put in the show notes when Ifinally do it.
Timothy Sullivan (02:18):
Well, you know, I know a guy
John Puma (02:20):
You don't, do you?
I thought you might.
After all, what do you, what dowe say here?
Uh, you're a sake educator, sakesamurai and a sake educator?
Yes, and the founder of theUrban Sake website.
Do you do, is it, do you haveany other, anything else that
you, um, that you run or
Timothy Sullivan (02:37):
well, I'm going to need to update our
intro because, uh, yeah, there'ssome, uh, shameless self
promotion about to happen.
but I've been working on a bigproject since last November.
I've mentioned it here and thereon the podcast, but I thought
today we might devote some timeto talking about Something I've
been working on for the past fewmonths, which is the Sake
(03:01):
Studies Center at Brooklyn Kura.
And this is a sake educationschool that we've established at
Brooklyn Kura, which is New YorkState's first sake brewery.
They just had a big expansion.
They increased the size of theirproduction facility.
They increased the size of theirtaproom.
(03:22):
And I was brought in.
Last November to start runningclasses in the Study Center.
So if you indulge me today, JP,I wanted to talk a little bit
about the course offerings wehave there and what the Study
Center is all about, because Ithink it's an amazing resource
for people who want to learnabout sake.
John Puma (03:41):
Alright, so is this going to be like one of those
things where you go to thetimeshare and they sit you down
and you're going to try and sellme on it?
Timothy Sullivan (03:48):
Sit through my presentation and you'll get a,
John Puma (03:51):
this is actually, something I think is interesting
and I I have been to the spacewhere the sake study center is,
but I have not been presentduring a sake study center
event.
So, um, this is kind of nice tobe able to Chat about it and,
uh, you know, get a littleknowledge, get a little
information about this.
and then, uh, I think also, Tim,we're, we're going to be tasting
(04:12):
some sake as well, right?
Um, where, where is this sakegoing to be coming from?
Timothy Sullivan (04:16):
yeah, well, I brought in a Brooklyn Kura sake
for us to taste today.
I thought it was onlyappropriate
John Puma (04:23):
I thought so too.
the best thing about thisbrooklyn Kura has a subscription
service called Kura Kin and Ihave been a member since day one
I think they I want to say theylaunched this in 2020.
And so the ability to have sakedelivered to your home was
Suddenly, very, very appealing,because you really couldn't go
(04:43):
out too much.
And so once a month they ship acertain, uh, usually two bottles
to your home.
Typically one of the bottles isthe, is one of their normal
quote unquote, we're going tosay normal, uh, sake is their
blue door or their number 14,their, their, their flagship
sakes.
And then the other one is.
(05:03):
Something a little differentright something a little
sometimes something a littleweird sometimes something a
little seasonal And that's uh,that's like where it gets to be
a lot of fun And the sake we'regoing to be tasting today is one
of the one of those interestingweird ones I'm excited to get
around to it, but we we've gotto earn that tim.
So I need to learn aboutlearning.
So teach me about teaching.
(05:24):
Really?
Timothy Sullivan (05:26):
I want to mention that we did an episode
last year called Back to School,where we talked about all the
education offerings that wereavailable in the States.
And that was before the SakeStudies Center opened.
So I think it's good for us torevisit.
That's one of our most popularepisodes, by the way, based on
downloads.
(05:47):
So I think there's a demand outthere for education.
And I think it's appropriatethat we kind of refresh that and
talk about.
This new offering at BrooklynKura and the types of classes
that we have there, the eventswe have there, and who might be
interested in coming.
So the first thing I'll say isthat the Sake Studies Center is
(06:07):
open to everybody.
We have a Portfolio of classesthat we offer for consumers.
These are usually 90 minuteslong.
They involve a tasting and abrewery tour.
And then we also offer coursesthat are intended for
professionals.
So these are usually one dayclasses where we do training for
restaurant staff and things likethat.
(06:28):
So we do some professionaltraining, but mostly we focus on
getting consumers comfortablewith tasting sake.
John Puma (06:36):
Okay.
Because yeah, I, I think peopleshould understand that learning
about sake is, is like a two-waything.
It's, it's beneficial for peoplewho are tasting sake to, to
learn about it, um, and to learnabout tasting sake and that
experience, kinda like peoplegoing to wine tasting classes
all the time.
Uh, and then you've got theother side of it where you're
kind of.
(06:56):
learning how to introduce peopleto sake.
Is that, is that the ideabasically?
Timothy Sullivan (07:00):
Absolutely.
We've got an intro to sakecourse, which is our
foundational course.
We offer that most often, andthat's, you know, a 90 minute
class where we do all the sakebasics.
We taste four sakes, we have afew little bites for food
pairing, and then we do abrewery tour.
So it's a crash course on thebasics.
(07:21):
I call it everything you need tobe dangerous with a sake menu.
And, you know,
John Puma (07:26):
I like that.
That's pretty good.
Timothy Sullivan (07:28):
Yeah, we just want to give people enough
confidence to know the differentclassifications and understand
what the ingredients are, havewalked through a brewery, tasted
a variety of styles, and theycan take that knowledge.
And then when they're in arestaurant next time, staring at
a sake menu, or they're in theliquor store looking at the
(07:49):
shelf with all the sakes on it,they'll know some of those terms
and they'll be able to make amore informed decision when they
buy sake next time.
So that's really the goal ofthat 101 class.
John Puma (07:59):
So let's say, you know, you've, you've done your
101 class and you're, excited,you're, you're interested.
What, what's, what's next?
Not
Timothy Sullivan (08:08):
but one of our, do you know where I'm going
with this?
John Puma (08:11):
yet.
I'm very curious.
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (08:14):
One of our most popular food pairing
classes is our sake and cheese
John Puma (08:20):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's definitely not forme.
Timothy Sullivan (08:25):
You and I've been talking about a sake and
cheese episode for SakeRevolution for a long time,
which hasn't happened
John Puma (08:30):
No, I am a major hurdle to making that happen.
Timothy Sullivan (08:36):
for those scratching their heads, John
Puma is a cheese.
Hater?
Is that fair to say?
John Puma (08:42):
Hater means, hater sounds like I've got some kind
of vendetta or I have somethingagainst cheese.
I don't have anything againstcheese personally.
I just don't enjoy eating it.
Or smelling it or
Timothy Sullivan (08:55):
Or looking at
John Puma (08:56):
at it really.
It's I just, all right, fine.
I don't like cheese.
Timothy Sullivan (08:59):
Okay.
Well, even though this classisn't for you in particular,
it's been very popular at theSake Study Center.
We take five sakes and we pairthem with five different types
of cheese.
And one thing I want to makeclear is that We introduce other
sakes, not just Brooklyn Kurasake.
So Brooklyn Kura is always inthe mix in these classes, but we
(09:20):
have a lot of sakes brought infrom Japan, and you can taste a
variety of sake.
Some people think it's atBrooklyn Kura, so it's every
class is only Brooklyn Kurasake, but that's not true.
This sake and cheese course, we,we pick five different sakes,
different styles, and we pairthem with different cheeses, and
it is a lot of fun.
John Puma (09:42):
I'll take your word for it.
Timothy Sullivan (09:44):
Yeah, you'll have to, you'll have to take my
word for that one.
I will say that when I wascleaning up the classroom last
time, I picked up a napkin andthere was, Five crumpled packets
of lactate under there.
So someone attending the classwas chomping down on lactate
(10:05):
between every bite of cheese.
John Puma (10:07):
I mean, let me tell you that if I were to take that
class, I would need to do that.
That's for sure.
I cannot, uh, cannot handle thelactose.
Unfortunately.
Timothy Sullivan (10:17):
let's move on from sake and cheese.
How about sake and desserts?
How does that
John Puma (10:21):
That sounds like fun.
I like dessert.
I like sake.
So yeah.
Uh, let's, let's talk a littlebit about that.
Timothy Sullivan (10:30):
remember Eat Your Sake?
Do you remember that episode wedid?
John Puma (10:33):
Yeah, of course.
That was, uh, that was fun.
We got to, uh, have some icecream, which by the way, uh, for
anybody concerned at home,interestingly enough, ice cream
doesn't bother me in the least.
Timothy Sullivan (10:44):
okay,
John Puma (10:46):
I don't, I don't make the rules.
I don't know why it happens thatway, but you know, this is the
way it is
Timothy Sullivan (10:51):
well, that's, that's very fortunate.
I would feel sad for you if youwere denied cheese and ice
cream, so what we did in the EatYour Sake episode was we
actually took an eight year agedKijoshu and we poured it over
the ice cream as a sauce, as atopping.
And that is one of the coursesof the sake and desserts class
(11:12):
that we do at the study center.
Did you enjoy that pairing?
John Puma (11:15):
Uh, I sure did.
Uh, it, it sounds to me like youguys just have a lot of fun,
Timothy Sullivan (11:21):
Yes,
John Puma (11:22):
That's pretty cool.
the question I have for, andthis is a little self-serving,
um, what I, with John Puma formy resolution, am I taking the 1
0 1 class or do I need to scootinto like one of the, um, one of
the more business orientedclasses?
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (11:40):
I think that your resolution was focused on
getting a certificate.
And currently at the studycenter, we only offer
certificates for the full dayprofessional class.
John Puma (11:51):
Mm, you gotta earn it.
That's how it is.
Timothy Sullivan (11:54):
You got to earn it.
You got to put in the
John Puma (11:57):
Gotta put in the time.
If you, uh, if you, if, yes,exactly.
You have to put in the time.
So, yeah, that's interesting.
You know, that may, may be athing we have to look into.
How's it gonna go?
Full day, huh?
Timothy Sullivan (12:07):
Yeah.
I can tell you about thatcourse.
It's the called the sake servercertification.
John Puma (12:12):
Sake server certification.
And I guess I will be learninghow to serve sake.
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (12:16):
Yes.
It's designed specifically forpeople who work in restaurants
or for people who sell sake in aretail store.
So this is kind of anunderserved community.
I think in a lot of theeducational programs that are
out there, we focus a one daycourse specifically on training
people.
in the sake basics, um, sakecommunication and sales
(12:39):
techniques for introducing andselling sake.
And then we do a whole module onserving, pouring, etiquette and
stuff like that.
John Puma (12:47):
that sounds lovely.
That does sound like something Iwould benefit from.
You've seen me pour sake, Tim.
It's ugly.
Timothy Sullivan (12:55):
No comment.
John Puma (12:58):
You made some snide remarks at Thanksgiving dinner
when I was pouring you
Timothy Sullivan (13:03):
I did?
What did I say?
John Puma (13:06):
Nothing overt, nothing too mean, but you gave
me a little bit of a, you canapprove on this, kind of
Timothy Sullivan (13:11):
Did I, did I give you the samurai side eye?
John Puma (13:14):
Uh, maybe a touch, just a little bit.
And I was like, Oh man, I gotta,I gotta up my game.
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (13:24):
Well, uh, there is an exam for that, John.
John Puma (13:27):
Oh, I think that what I'm envisioning involves an
exam.
So this is
Timothy Sullivan (13:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So when you, when you take thesake server certification, you
come to Brooklyn Kura.
We also offer it online forpeople who are not in the New
York City area.
It's, I think it's better tocome in person if you're nearby
or if you're going to be in NewYork because you can do the
brewery tour live and in person.
(13:51):
Whereas the online version, Iwalk around with my iPhone and I
show you the brewery, but it'sjust not the same as being there
in
John Puma (13:58):
I would, I would agree with you on that one.
I think that, uh, you know, TVis never as good as being in
that person.
Timothy Sullivan (14:04):
Yeah.
But, uh, when you, when youcomplete the course, whether
you've taken it online or inperson, uh, at the end of the
course, I send you a link andyou have two weeks to do an
online quiz, an online exam.
It's one hour, it's 100questions and you have to get,
it's multiple choice and youhave to get 75 percent correct
to pass.
(14:25):
And then you get a certificatein the mail.
John Puma (14:27):
Okay.
cool.
maybe I need to look into that.
Timothy Sullivan (14:29):
Yeah.
John Puma (14:30):
Good relevant question.
What's this all cost?
Timothy Sullivan (14:34):
Oh, yeah.
So the, the intro to sake, ofcourse, is the least expensive
and that is around 75.
And then the cheese pairingcourse, the desserts course,
those are 99.
And then the sake servercertification is currently 150.
John Puma (14:57):
Okay.
That's all sounds reasonable.
I imagine you'll be sipping abunch of sake as well That's
that's part of you know
Timothy Sullivan (15:05):
yeah, there's, uh, sake and nibbles with every
course and every course weoffer, every single one includes
a brewery tour,
John Puma (15:15):
Okay Mm
Timothy Sullivan (15:16):
an add on, value add on.
You can walk through thebrewery, you can see the sites,
Smell the smells.
and, you
John Puma (15:25):
Are these tours ever done, uh, during brewing or is
it, uh, generally they clear outfirst?
Timothy Sullivan (15:31):
Brewing is usually concentrated in the
morning time, like 9, 10, 11.
So sometimes for the sake servercertification, we can catch the
brewers in action.
John Puma (15:41):
Nice.
Timothy Sullivan (15:42):
The consumer courses are either, they're
usually, like an evening on aWednesday or a Friday, or we
have them on the afternoon on aSaturday or Sunday.
John Puma (15:52):
Well, that makes sense.
Timothy Sullivan (15:53):
Great thing is that even if you don't see the
brewers in action at thatmoment, there's the, I'm not
joking about smelling thesmells, like when you go into
the pressing room and there'sthe giant yabuta, they're
pressing now in there and Itcould be running overnight and
you're going to smell thisintense fruity aroma coming off
the press.
And it's really intoxicating andbeautiful and just makes you
(16:16):
fall in love with sake all overagain.
So it's a true experiential,tour.
So, and we love to have peopletaste a little bit of koji or
sip some moromi from a batchthat's, currently bubbling away
in the tank.
So our, our tagline in this, Icame up with this myself.
Do you want to hear themarketing genius tagline?
(16:40):
So the tagline is, learn aboutsake where sake is made.
John Puma (16:44):
Hey, that is, that is accurate.
That's what you're doing.
Sake is definitely made on siteand you're learning.
Timothy Sullivan (16:51):
Yes, you're learning.
I just think that having thesake school the site of a
working sake brewery is uniquein a our country.
It's the only school that islocated at a sake brewery.
So we can give you the in deptheducation and you can tour the
brewery and taste all the stepsalong the way through the
(17:15):
production process.
So that's, that's super unique.
And that's what gets me reallyexcited.
John Puma (17:18):
That's pretty cool and for you this must be
particularly exciting becauseyou've been You know into sake
education for a very long timeTim And you've got your own
place now, you know, you'regoing to kind of run these these
events Design them if you'reeven if you are you generally
teaching most of the classes oreven all of them.
Timothy Sullivan (17:42):
Right now I'm teaching all the classes.
We've only been up and runningsince November of 2023, but our
goal is to have.
A number of teachers teachingclasses, and we're creating our
own curriculum, but it'simportant for me to mention here
as well that we invite othereducators to come to our
classroom and teach as well.
(18:04):
So one example is we haveMichael Tremblay, who's been on
our podcast before, and heteaches this sake scholar
certification.
Which is a very advanced courseabout terroir and sake
regionality.
It's a three day class, reallyintense.
And he's coming to Brooklyn Kurain October to teach at the Sake
(18:26):
Study Center.
So not only do we do our ownclasses, most of which I'm
teaching right now, but we alsoinvite other educators to come.
And we've also had the SakeSchool of America come in and
they've taught the WSET levelthree.
in our classroom.
And that's been great to haveother teachers come in as well.
(18:46):
And the advantage for them isthat they can do that brewery
tour.
And when they talk about kojimaking in their materials, we
can go up to the koji room and,you know, taste some koji and
see what it looks like.
So it's a win win situation foreverybody.
And our goal is to just expandthe opportunities for education
all around, all around.
John Puma (19:08):
Excellent.
That sounds pretty cool.
just to let everybody know athome, uh, you may, you may think
that if you are in the New Yorkarea, you may consider, Industry
City where.
This is located to be, it's abit of a trip, but, and I say
this without exaggeration, Ifeel like every day there's more
stuff to do around there, inindustry city.
(19:29):
you know, there's plenty ofshopping, there's amazing
restaurants, there are smalldistilleries in the, in the area
too.
And I think a beer brewery aswell, you can really make a day
out of it and see a lot ofdifferent things and experience
a lot of stuff.
Timothy Sullivan (19:41):
That's such a great point, John.
Industry City, where BrooklynKura is located, is a
destination in and of itself.
So when people, when people comein to do like the sake server
training and they're there allday, they get a one hour lunch
break and they can go to JapanVillage.
They can go to the food court.
And there's all types of thingsto explore for lunch.
(20:01):
And then when class is over,there's distilleries, there's
beer breweries, uh, there's atap room at Brooklyn Kura.
You can, have a drink afterclass and just enjoy yourself.
So it's a real destination andwe're so happy to be a part of
the community at Industry Cityand it is every year it's
growing bigger and more dynamic.
John Puma (20:22):
awesome.
So, maybe it's time we, wecracked open this sake and
talked a little bit about thislatest offering from, Kura Kin.
Timothy Sullivan (20:32):
Yes.
So Kura Kin, again, as you saidbefore, is the.
Subscription service.
John, do you get it monthly orevery two months?
How often do you get it
John Puma (20:39):
monthly.
Um, I, I, like I said before, Ireally like getting the, special
bottles like, like this, forexample, and seeing like what
they're up to.
I think that's a lot of fun.
it feels like we're shilling alittle bit here, but I really do
authentically, like thisservice.
I, I, I wish there were more,craft breweries that were doing
something like this, uh, hint,hint, hint.
Timothy Sullivan (21:01):
Yeah.
Kura Kin is amazing.
And one of the things that isreally special about it, as you
mentioned, is that you get theselimited release bottles, which
is what we're going to tastetoday.
It's not available.
If you go to your local liquorKura, these are limited edition
bottles that you can get in thetap room.
If you visit the tap room inperson, or if you Sign up for
(21:25):
the subscription service.
All right.
So John, why don't you introduceus to the delicious sake we're
about to taste?
John Puma (21:31):
Sure.
Uh, so this one is a, uh, NamaChozo Junmai Ginjo.
Most of the additional bottlesthat come through are nama Chozo
or have been historically.
Timothy Sullivan (21:42):
Do you want to remind us what namachozo?
John Puma (21:44):
Namachozo means that it has been pasteurized, but
once,
Timothy Sullivan (21:48):
Correct.
John Puma (21:49):
the sake is all Yamada Nishiki, and it's milled
down to 60%, uh, the ABV is 16%.
The sake meter value, thatmeasure of dry to sweet, is
minus 5.
7, so it's a touch on the sweetside.
But, the acidity is 2.
6, Tim.
You know what that means.
Balance.
Balance.
(22:10):
At least that's what I'm hopingfor.
I've actually never tasted thisone.
I haven't opened it yet.
Um, and for the record, I havebottle number 182.
These are numbered.
What's yours?
Ooh, okay, not too far.
They're
Timothy Sullivan (22:22):
What's, what's this, uh, what's this special
edition called?
John Puma (22:25):
Oh yeah, I never, I never mentioned that.
Oh it is called Brooklyn Kuranear and far Now the name Tim I
think I believe the name is is ais a pun about the transition
between their original breweryand their new facility now was
this made at the new facility orthe old facility?
Would you happen to know that?
Timothy Sullivan (22:45):
I do know that for sure.
This Sake was made at the oldfacility, so the small batch
facility, and we moved from 6834th street down to 34 34th
street in Sunset Park, Brooklyn.
So near and far, we felt likeduring the transition, we would
(23:06):
go back and forth.
And, uh, so that's where thename near and far comes from for
this limited edition JunmaiGinjo.
John Puma (23:16):
excellent.
Excellent.
All right.
Well, let's crack it open andget it in the glass.
You can see what one of the lastbatches to come out of that
brewery is gonna taste like.
(23:39):
At Sake Revolution, we generallyencourage people to make use of
the wine glasses they have athome, because you probably
already have wine glasses athome.
So, They're real easy to sip outof.
They capture the aroma of sakeexceptionally well.
Um, and again, you've alreadygot them.
All right, Tim, let's get thenose going.
(24:00):
What do we have here?
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (24:03):
Well, I have a little note here from Brooklyn
Kura that says this has notes ofgolden apple and hints of melon.
John Puma (24:12):
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (24:14):
I think I picked up more on the apple
aromatics than melon per se.
John Puma (24:19):
I definitely don't pick up on the melon too much.
So yes, I'm
Timothy Sullivan (24:21):
Yeah.
John Puma (24:22):
you.
It's got a really pleasant
Timothy Sullivan (24:25):
Hmm.
John Puma (24:27):
It would have taken a while for me to arrive at Golden
Apple, though.
Hmm.
I like that.
It's kind of, it's almost alittle, like the nose is almost
a little jammy.
Just a ton, you know, not like,I know that when we talk about
jammies, like woohoo, but youknow, this is a very light one.
Light
Timothy Sullivan (24:45):
Yeah.
John Puma (24:45):
a little bit.
Timothy Sullivan (24:47):
Yeah, I pick up on notes of strawberry, and
this is going to be very random,but you know when you are
trimming strawberries, and youcut off all the green bits on
the top, and you pile them up ina little bowl?
John Puma (25:02):
them off?
Timothy Sullivan (25:02):
off the green bits on the top of
John Puma (25:04):
I just, I just, bite them off.
I just bite.
Right?
But no, it's actually not true.
I just, um, I pluck them off andI eat everything, including the
stem, but I pluck off the greenbits.
Timothy Sullivan (25:17):
Okay, let's go.
Envision this, jP.
John Puma (25:20):
I know, I know, I know, people who do it that way.
I married to somebody who doesit that way.
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan (25:31):
and I need to prepare the strawberry.
So I'm cutting off the greenbits and I've got a bowl of
those green stems.
Okay.
John Puma (25:39):
Got it.
Timothy Sullivan (25:40):
to your nose and and smell the strawberry
leaves and stems, it kind ofsmells like
John Puma (25:46):
Okay.
All right.
I'm with you.
Timothy Sullivan (25:49):
So there's a little bit of fruitiness, but I
think the golden apple and.
Strawberry
John Puma (25:56):
the strawberry is really front of mind now for me.
I'm going to be reallydisappointed if this doesn't
taste like strawberries.
Timothy Sullivan (26:04):
Let's give it a taste.
John Puma (26:05):
All right, let's, let's see what it actually does
taste like.
Timothy Sullivan (26:12):
Okay, so your note about jamminess comes
across more in the mouth, right?
it
John Puma (26:20):
It's nice.
Um, this is fun.
This is a fun sake.
Timothy Sullivan (26:25):
does have an apple crisp taste to it.
John Puma (26:29):
I will say that it's a little warm in my apartment
and we do turn off the air forthese recordings.
And so this has been sitting fora little bit as we've been
recording.
And I think it's approachingroom tempi.
And I think that's making thejamminess come out a little bit
more.
And I like it.
I think it's doing it favors.
(26:49):
It's really nice.
we've, we've talked a little bitabout how, you know, you don't
have to really warm up a sakenecessarily.
You can just, you know, give ita few degrees.
and this really comes across assomething that to me, at least
is really benefiting from just afew degrees, North of my usual
kind of, uh, 40, 42 degrees thatI usually have sake.
(27:09):
What do you think?
Timothy Sullivan (27:10):
Yeah, mine is relatively well chilled, so I, I
think it, it tastes great atthat temperature as well.
And the more this is resting onmy palate, I'm getting, we
talked about golden apple, butalso green apple, like that is
finally solidifying in my mind.
It's like, ah, it's like greenapple, Granny Smith, apple
flavors.
(27:31):
That's coming through really,
John Puma (27:32):
Granny Smith.
Mmm.
That's some good stuff.
Timothy Sullivan (27:37):
Yeah, it's it, but it does have a little bit of
a jammy texture to it, meaningthat it's not bone dry.
It's got a hint of richness.
This is only once pasteurizedand it's all Yamada Nishiki.
So that can help bring out thosefruit flavors because it
supplies a lot of starch to the,to the moromi mash.
(27:57):
So, uh, yeah, really wellcrafted.
I think this is a tinge sweeterthan most their standard sakes.
John Puma (28:06):
so I will say that I only know of a couple of other
sake's where Brooklyn Kura hasdone a full, full Yamada
Nishiki, and I think thatusually when they do, it comes
out pretty dry, and I like thatthey went the other direction
with this one, and let it get alittle sweet, and tried
something different.
Timothy Sullivan (28:26):
Yeah, so this is, an example of the type of
sake you would be able to enjoyat the Sake Studies Center.
If we have limited releases likethis I often fold them into the
sakes that we taste in class.
So we try to keep thingsinteresting and unique and
really focus on the pairings ormake sure that the sakes we
(28:48):
taste are very relevant to thetopic or what we're trying to
get across in the class.
John Puma (28:53):
mmm, nice.
All right.
So, Tim, we've, uh, we've talkedabout education.
We've sipped some delicioussake.
where can, uh, people who arecurious about taking one of
these courses or perhaps tastingsome of the sake, where can they
do that?
Timothy Sullivan (29:09):
the website is, uh, Sake studies center.com.
John Puma (29:14):
hmm.
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (29:15):
we also have an Instagram at sake studies
center.
And you can also visit theBrooklyn Kura website and
connect through.
Uh, but if you want to visit usdirectly, sake studies
center.com, and there's acourses page and we have a full
list of all the courses we'reoffering.
(29:36):
we have the sake and.
Cheese course, the introductionto sake.
We have the sake server course,coming up soon.
We also have, uh, sake anddesserts.
And one other course that isgoing to be hitting the calendar
very soon is a sparkling
John Puma (29:52):
Ooh, that's going to be interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (29:55):
Yeah, it's a survey of five different types
of sparkling sake and a littlepairing to go with each one.
So I think in the summer when itgets a little warmer, some ice
cold sparkling sake would bereally good.
John Puma (30:09):
That sounds like a good time.
Timothy Sullivan (30:11):
Yeah.
John Puma (30:12):
Cool.
Timothy Sullivan (30:13):
Well, I welcome every one of our sake
revolution listeners to checkout the Sake Study Center.
Thanks for indulging me todaywith a little bit of self
promotion.
And I'm so, so happy
John Puma (30:26):
I like that you're, I like that you're being
straightforward about it.
Like,
Timothy Sullivan (30:28):
yeah, yes,
John Puma (30:29):
self promotion,
Timothy Sullivan (30:31):
it is.
But I think, you know, I thinkhonestly, our listeners would
probably be interested in what'shappening at the Sake Study
Center.
John Puma (30:39):
right?
Timothy Sullivan (30:41):
from the Sake Revolution audience comes to the
Study Center.
Please let us know when you signup.
There's a little form when yousign up and you can put a
message in there.
Let us know if you're a SakeRevolution listener because we'd
love to connect with you whenyou come into class.
John Puma (30:56):
Oh, so if I do it, I have to say, yes, I am a
listener.
guess.
Timothy Sullivan (31:02):
Yes.
Yes.
You have to say you're a sakerevolution listener.
John Puma (31:05):
noted.
noted.
Timothy Sullivan (31:07):
so John, am I going to see you in class?
John Puma (31:08):
Yeah, let's see, I mean, I'll, I'll class.
I don't know which class yet.
Uh, you know, I, I, I'll figuresomething out.
Timothy Sullivan (31:17):
Okay.
We're halfway through the year.
You've got, you've got about sixmonths or so to figure it out.
John Puma (31:22):
halfway?
Timothy Sullivan (31:23):
Almost.
John Puma (31:24):
Oh my God.
Oh, I wasn't ready for that.
All right.
Well, hey, all right.
Good to know.
Timothy Sullivan (31:31):
All right.
Well, John, this was so muchfun.
Thanks for letting me introducethe Sake Studies Center and
thanks for tasting a BrooklynKura Sake.
I think this one is reallydelicious and I think this
bottle is going to disappearpretty soon.
John Puma (31:43):
They usually do
Timothy Sullivan (31:44):
I usually do, right?
A thank you as well to all ourlisteners and a special shout
out, hello, and extra specialthank you to our patrons.
Thank you so much forcontributing to our podcast.
Without you, Sake Revolutionwould not be possible.
So we're so grateful.
If any of our listeners wouldlike to learn more about
(32:05):
supporting us as a patron,please visit
Patreon.com/SakeRevolution.
John Puma (32:10):
yes, and also if you have a moment, please take it
and Review our show over atApple podcasts or your podcast
platform of choice It reallyhelps get the word out about the
show and you know People hearabout us a little bit more
quickly when they look up sakestuff and they say America's
first time Oh, look at that.
And and hopefully they give us alisten.
(32:31):
That's that's That's the goal.
That's the, that's the dream.
Uh, so yeah, please take a fewminutes and do that if you can.
So on that note, please grabyour glass.
Remember to keep drinking sakeand Kanpai! All right.
Hello everybody.
And welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's first sakepodcast, and I am one of your
hosts.
My name is John Puma.
I'm from the Sake Notes.
I'm also from the internet SakeDiscord and Reddit's R/ Sake
community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:37):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai.
I'm a sake educator, as well asthe founder of the Urban Sake
website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, and doingour best to make it fun and easy
to understand.
John Puma (00:54):
Hello there, Tim.
How are you today?
Timothy Sullivan (00:56):
John, how's it going?
John Puma (00:58):
It's going well, it's going pretty well.
Um, I have a confession to make.
I
Timothy Sullivan (01:03):
love true confessions.
John Puma (01:05):
I have yet to begin my sake revolution resolution
for this year, 20 and 24.
I know we talked, I talked agood game,
Timothy Sullivan (01:16):
sure did.
John Puma (01:17):
but I haven't done anything about it yet.
Timothy Sullivan (01:20):
Well, remind our listeners at home what your
resolution was for this year.
John Puma (01:24):
my resolution was to get some formal sake education.
most of my education, I am selftaught, I guess you'd say.
And you know, I've done it byreading books, by tasting
things, by going places, bydoing things.
I haven't had the thing whereyou sit down and actually learn
the thing.
And I find that in a lot ofplaces in your life, you do
(01:49):
learn a lot from hands on.
experience.
But you do have holes in yourwisdom when you don't get proper
education.
Uh, you know, there's a lot ofconcepts that I understand, but
I don't necessarily know thenames of those concepts and how
and why I know the thing.
I don't know the why.
And so the idea is I want tolearn all those things and have
(02:11):
Some kind of certification thatI can put on my wall or, uh, or,
or put in the show notes when Ifinally do it.
Timothy Sullivan (02:18):
Well, you know, I know a guy
John Puma (02:20):
You don't, do you?
I thought you might.
After all, what do you, what dowe say here?
Uh, you're a sake educator, sakesamurai and a sake educator?
Yes, and the founder of theUrban Sake website.
Do you do, is it, do you haveany other, anything else that
you, um, that you run or
Timothy Sullivan (02:37):
well, I'm going to need to update our
intro because, uh, yeah, there'ssome, uh, shameless self
promotion about to happen.
but I've been working on a bigproject since last November.
I've mentioned it here and thereon the podcast, but I thought
today we might devote some timeto talking about Something I've
been working on for the past fewmonths, which is the Sake
(03:01):
Studies Center at Brooklyn Kura.
And this is a sake educationschool that we've established at
Brooklyn Kura, which is New YorkState's first sake brewery.
They just had a big expansion.
They increased the size of theirproduction facility.
They increased the size of theirtaproom.
(03:22):
And I was brought in.
Last November to start runningclasses in the Study Center.
So if you indulge me today, JP,I wanted to talk a little bit
about the course offerings wehave there and what the Study
Center is all about, because Ithink it's an amazing resource
for people who want to learnabout sake.
John Puma (03:41):
Alright, so is this going to be like one of those
things where you go to thetimeshare and they sit you down
and you're going to try and sellme on it?
Timothy Sullivan (03:48):
Sit through my presentation and you'll get a,
John Puma (03:51):
this is actually, something I think is interesting
and I I have been to the spacewhere the sake study center is,
but I have not been presentduring a sake study center
event.
So, um, this is kind of nice tobe able to Chat about it and,
uh, you know, get a littleknowledge, get a little
information about this.
and then, uh, I think also, Tim,we're, we're going to be tasting
(04:12):
some sake as well, right?
Um, where, where is this sakegoing to be coming from?
Timothy Sullivan (04:16):
yeah, well, I brought in a Brooklyn Kura sake
for us to taste today.
I thought it was onlyappropriate
John Puma (04:23):
I thought so too.
the best thing about thisbrooklyn Kura has a subscription
service called Kura Kin and Ihave been a member since day one
I think they I want to say theylaunched this in 2020.
And so the ability to have sakedelivered to your home was
Suddenly, very, very appealing,because you really couldn't go
(04:43):
out too much.
And so once a month they ship acertain, uh, usually two bottles
to your home.
Typically one of the bottles isthe, is one of their normal
quote unquote, we're going tosay normal, uh, sake is their
blue door or their number 14,their, their, their flagship
sakes.
And then the other one is.
(05:03):
Something a little differentright something a little
sometimes something a littleweird sometimes something a
little seasonal And that's uh,that's like where it gets to be
a lot of fun And the sake we'regoing to be tasting today is one
of the one of those interestingweird ones I'm excited to get
around to it, but we we've gotto earn that tim.
So I need to learn aboutlearning.
So teach me about teaching.
(05:24):
Really?
Timothy Sullivan (05:26):
I want to mention that we did an episode
last year called Back to School,where we talked about all the
education offerings that wereavailable in the States.
And that was before the SakeStudies Center opened.
So I think it's good for us torevisit.
That's one of our most popularepisodes, by the way, based on
downloads.
(05:47):
So I think there's a demand outthere for education.
And I think it's appropriatethat we kind of refresh that and
talk about.
This new offering at BrooklynKura and the types of classes
that we have there, the eventswe have there, and who might be
interested in coming.
So the first thing I'll say isthat the Sake Studies Center is
(06:07):
open to everybody.
We have a Portfolio of classesthat we offer for consumers.
These are usually 90 minuteslong.
They involve a tasting and abrewery tour.
And then we also offer coursesthat are intended for
professionals.
So these are usually one dayclasses where we do training for
restaurant staff and things likethat.
(06:28):
So we do some professionaltraining, but mostly we focus on
getting consumers comfortablewith tasting sake.
John Puma (06:36):
Okay.
Because yeah, I, I think peopleshould understand that learning
about sake is, is like a two-waything.
It's, it's beneficial for peoplewho are tasting sake to, to
learn about it, um, and to learnabout tasting sake and that
experience, kinda like peoplegoing to wine tasting classes
all the time.
Uh, and then you've got theother side of it where you're
kind of.
(06:56):
learning how to introduce peopleto sake.
Is that, is that the ideabasically?
Timothy Sullivan (07:00):
Absolutely.
We've got an intro to sakecourse, which is our
foundational course.
We offer that most often, andthat's, you know, a 90 minute
class where we do all the sakebasics.
We taste four sakes, we have afew little bites for food
pairing, and then we do abrewery tour.
So it's a crash course on thebasics.
(07:21):
I call it everything you need tobe dangerous with a sake menu.
And, you know,
John Puma (07:26):
I like that.
That's pretty good.
Timothy Sullivan (07:28):
Yeah, we just want to give people enough
confidence to know the differentclassifications and understand
what the ingredients are, havewalked through a brewery, tasted
a variety of styles, and theycan take that knowledge.
And then when they're in arestaurant next time, staring at
a sake menu, or they're in theliquor store looking at the
(07:49):
shelf with all the sakes on it,they'll know some of those terms
and they'll be able to make amore informed decision when they
buy sake next time.
So that's really the goal ofthat 101 class.
John Puma (07:59):
So let's say, you know, you've, you've done your
101 class and you're, excited,you're, you're interested.
What, what's, what's next?
Not
Timothy Sullivan (08:08):
but one of our, do you know where I'm going
with this?
John Puma (08:11):
yet.
I'm very curious.
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (08:14):
One of our most popular food pairing
classes is our sake and cheese
John Puma (08:20):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's definitely not forme.
Timothy Sullivan (08:25):
You and I've been talking about a sake and
cheese episode for SakeRevolution for a long time,
which hasn't happened
John Puma (08:30):
No, I am a major hurdle to making that happen.
Timothy Sullivan (08:36):
for those scratching their heads, John
Puma is a cheese.
Hater?
Is that fair to say?
John Puma (08:42):
Hater means, hater sounds like I've got some kind
of vendetta or I have somethingagainst cheese.
I don't have anything againstcheese personally.
I just don't enjoy eating it.
Or smelling it or
Timothy Sullivan (08:55):
Or looking at
John Puma (08:56):
at it really.
It's I just, all right, fine.
I don't like cheese.
Timothy Sullivan (08:59):
Okay.
Well, even though this classisn't for you in particular,
it's been very popular at theSake Study Center.
We take five sakes and we pairthem with five different types
of cheese.
And one thing I want to makeclear is that We introduce other
sakes, not just Brooklyn Kurasake.
So Brooklyn Kura is always inthe mix in these classes, but we
(09:20):
have a lot of sakes brought infrom Japan, and you can taste a
variety of sake.
Some people think it's atBrooklyn Kura, so it's every
class is only Brooklyn Kurasake, but that's not true.
This sake and cheese course, we,we pick five different sakes,
different styles, and we pairthem with different cheeses, and
it is a lot of fun.
John Puma (09:42):
I'll take your word for it.
Timothy Sullivan (09:44):
Yeah, you'll have to, you'll have to take my
word for that one.
I will say that when I wascleaning up the classroom last
time, I picked up a napkin andthere was, Five crumpled packets
of lactate under there.
So someone attending the classwas chomping down on lactate
(10:05):
between every bite of cheese.
John Puma (10:07):
I mean, let me tell you that if I were to take that
class, I would need to do that.
That's for sure.
I cannot, uh, cannot handle thelactose.
Unfortunately.
Timothy Sullivan (10:17):
let's move on from sake and cheese.
How about sake and desserts?
How does that
John Puma (10:21):
That sounds like fun.
I like dessert.
I like sake.
So yeah.
Uh, let's, let's talk a littlebit about that.
Timothy Sullivan (10:30):
remember Eat Your Sake?
Do you remember that episode wedid?
John Puma (10:33):
Yeah, of course.
That was, uh, that was fun.
We got to, uh, have some icecream, which by the way, uh, for
anybody concerned at home,interestingly enough, ice cream
doesn't bother me in the least.
Timothy Sullivan (10:44):
okay,
John Puma (10:46):
I don't, I don't make the rules.
I don't know why it happens thatway, but you know, this is the
way it is
Timothy Sullivan (10:51):
well, that's, that's very fortunate.
I would feel sad for you if youwere denied cheese and ice
cream, so what we did in the EatYour Sake episode was we
actually took an eight year agedKijoshu and we poured it over
the ice cream as a sauce, as atopping.
And that is one of the coursesof the sake and desserts class
(11:12):
that we do at the study center.
Did you enjoy that pairing?
John Puma (11:15):
Uh, I sure did.
Uh, it, it sounds to me like youguys just have a lot of fun,
Timothy Sullivan (11:21):
Yes,
John Puma (11:22):
That's pretty cool.
the question I have for, andthis is a little self-serving,
um, what I, with John Puma formy resolution, am I taking the 1
0 1 class or do I need to scootinto like one of the, um, one of
the more business orientedclasses?
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (11:40):
I think that your resolution was focused on
getting a certificate.
And currently at the studycenter, we only offer
certificates for the full dayprofessional class.
John Puma (11:51):
Mm, you gotta earn it.
That's how it is.
Timothy Sullivan (11:54):
You got to earn it.
You got to put in the
John Puma (11:57):
Gotta put in the time.
If you, uh, if you, if, yes,exactly.
You have to put in the time.
So, yeah, that's interesting.
You know, that may, may be athing we have to look into.
How's it gonna go?
Full day, huh?
Timothy Sullivan (12:07):
Yeah.
I can tell you about thatcourse.
It's the called the sake servercertification.
John Puma (12:12):
Sake server certification.
And I guess I will be learninghow to serve sake.
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (12:16):
Yes.
It's designed specifically forpeople who work in restaurants
or for people who sell sake in aretail store.
So this is kind of anunderserved community.
I think in a lot of theeducational programs that are
out there, we focus a one daycourse specifically on training
people.
in the sake basics, um, sakecommunication and sales
(12:39):
techniques for introducing andselling sake.
And then we do a whole module onserving, pouring, etiquette and
stuff like that.
John Puma (12:47):
that sounds lovely.
That does sound like something Iwould benefit from.
You've seen me pour sake, Tim.
It's ugly.
Timothy Sullivan (12:55):
No comment.
John Puma (12:58):
You made some snide remarks at Thanksgiving dinner
when I was pouring you
Timothy Sullivan (13:03):
I did?
What did I say?
John Puma (13:06):
Nothing overt, nothing too mean, but you gave
me a little bit of a, you canapprove on this, kind of
Timothy Sullivan (13:11):
Did I, did I give you the samurai side eye?
John Puma (13:14):
Uh, maybe a touch, just a little bit.
And I was like, Oh man, I gotta,I gotta up my game.
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (13:24):
Well, uh, there is an exam for that, John.
John Puma (13:27):
Oh, I think that what I'm envisioning involves an
exam.
So this is
Timothy Sullivan (13:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So when you, when you take thesake server certification, you
come to Brooklyn Kura.
We also offer it online forpeople who are not in the New
York City area.
It's, I think it's better tocome in person if you're nearby
or if you're going to be in NewYork because you can do the
brewery tour live and in person.
(13:51):
Whereas the online version, Iwalk around with my iPhone and I
show you the brewery, but it'sjust not the same as being there
in
John Puma (13:58):
I would, I would agree with you on that one.
I think that, uh, you know, TVis never as good as being in
that person.
Timothy Sullivan (14:04):
Yeah.
But, uh, when you, when youcomplete the course, whether
you've taken it online or inperson, uh, at the end of the
course, I send you a link andyou have two weeks to do an
online quiz, an online exam.
It's one hour, it's 100questions and you have to get,
it's multiple choice and youhave to get 75 percent correct
to pass.
(14:25):
And then you get a certificatein the mail.
John Puma (14:27):
Okay.
cool.
maybe I need to look into that.
Timothy Sullivan (14:29):
Yeah.
John Puma (14:30):
Good relevant question.
What's this all cost?
Timothy Sullivan (14:34):
Oh, yeah.
So the, the intro to sake, ofcourse, is the least expensive
and that is around 75.
And then the cheese pairingcourse, the desserts course,
those are 99.
And then the sake servercertification is currently 150.
John Puma (14:57):
Okay.
That's all sounds reasonable.
I imagine you'll be sipping abunch of sake as well That's
that's part of you know
Timothy Sullivan (15:05):
yeah, there's, uh, sake and nibbles with every
course and every course weoffer, every single one includes
a brewery tour,
John Puma (15:15):
Okay Mm
Timothy Sullivan (15:16):
an add on, value add on.
You can walk through thebrewery, you can see the sites,
Smell the smells.
and, you
John Puma (15:25):
Are these tours ever done, uh, during brewing or is
it, uh, generally they clear outfirst?
Timothy Sullivan (15:31):
Brewing is usually concentrated in the
morning time, like 9, 10, 11.
So sometimes for the sake servercertification, we can catch the
brewers in action.
John Puma (15:41):
Nice.
Timothy Sullivan (15:42):
The consumer courses are either, they're
usually, like an evening on aWednesday or a Friday, or we
have them on the afternoon on aSaturday or Sunday.
John Puma (15:52):
Well, that makes sense.
Timothy Sullivan (15:53):
Great thing is that even if you don't see the
brewers in action at thatmoment, there's the, I'm not
joking about smelling thesmells, like when you go into
the pressing room and there'sthe giant yabuta, they're
pressing now in there and Itcould be running overnight and
you're going to smell thisintense fruity aroma coming off
the press.
And it's really intoxicating andbeautiful and just makes you
(16:16):
fall in love with sake all overagain.
So it's a true experiential,tour.
So, and we love to have peopletaste a little bit of koji or
sip some moromi from a batchthat's, currently bubbling away
in the tank.
So our, our tagline in this, Icame up with this myself.
Do you want to hear themarketing genius tagline?
(16:40):
So the tagline is, learn aboutsake where sake is made.
John Puma (16:44):
Hey, that is, that is accurate.
That's what you're doing.
Sake is definitely made on siteand you're learning.
Timothy Sullivan (16:51):
Yes, you're learning.
I just think that having thesake school the site of a
working sake brewery is uniquein a our country.
It's the only school that islocated at a sake brewery.
So we can give you the in deptheducation and you can tour the
brewery and taste all the stepsalong the way through the
(17:15):
production process.
So that's, that's super unique.
And that's what gets me reallyexcited.
John Puma (17:18):
That's pretty cool and for you this must be
particularly exciting becauseyou've been You know into sake
education for a very long timeTim And you've got your own
place now, you know, you'regoing to kind of run these these
events Design them if you'reeven if you are you generally
teaching most of the classes oreven all of them.
Timothy Sullivan (17:42):
Right now I'm teaching all the classes.
We've only been up and runningsince November of 2023, but our
goal is to have.
A number of teachers teachingclasses, and we're creating our
own curriculum, but it'simportant for me to mention here
as well that we invite othereducators to come to our
classroom and teach as well.
(18:04):
So one example is we haveMichael Tremblay, who's been on
our podcast before, and heteaches this sake scholar
certification.
Which is a very advanced courseabout terroir and sake
regionality.
It's a three day class, reallyintense.
And he's coming to Brooklyn Kurain October to teach at the Sake
(18:26):
Study Center.
So not only do we do our ownclasses, most of which I'm
teaching right now, but we alsoinvite other educators to come.
And we've also had the SakeSchool of America come in and
they've taught the WSET levelthree.
in our classroom.
And that's been great to haveother teachers come in as well.
(18:46):
And the advantage for them isthat they can do that brewery
tour.
And when they talk about kojimaking in their materials, we
can go up to the koji room and,you know, taste some koji and
see what it looks like.
So it's a win win situation foreverybody.
And our goal is to just expandthe opportunities for education
all around, all around.
John Puma (19:08):
Excellent.
That sounds pretty cool.
just to let everybody know athome, uh, you may, you may think
that if you are in the New Yorkarea, you may consider, Industry
City where.
This is located to be, it's abit of a trip, but, and I say
this without exaggeration, Ifeel like every day there's more
stuff to do around there, inindustry city.
(19:29):
you know, there's plenty ofshopping, there's amazing
restaurants, there are smalldistilleries in the, in the area
too.
And I think a beer brewery aswell, you can really make a day
out of it and see a lot ofdifferent things and experience
a lot of stuff.
Timothy Sullivan (19:41):
That's such a great point, John.
Industry City, where BrooklynKura is located, is a
destination in and of itself.
So when people, when people comein to do like the sake server
training and they're there allday, they get a one hour lunch
break and they can go to JapanVillage.
They can go to the food court.
And there's all types of thingsto explore for lunch.
(20:01):
And then when class is over,there's distilleries, there's
beer breweries, uh, there's atap room at Brooklyn Kura.
You can, have a drink afterclass and just enjoy yourself.
So it's a real destination andwe're so happy to be a part of
the community at Industry Cityand it is every year it's
growing bigger and more dynamic.
John Puma (20:22):
awesome.
So, maybe it's time we, wecracked open this sake and
talked a little bit about thislatest offering from, Kura Kin.
Timothy Sullivan (20:32):
Yes.
So Kura Kin, again, as you saidbefore, is the.
Subscription service.
John, do you get it monthly orevery two months?
How often do you get it
John Puma (20:39):
monthly.
Um, I, I, like I said before, Ireally like getting the, special
bottles like, like this, forexample, and seeing like what
they're up to.
I think that's a lot of fun.
it feels like we're shilling alittle bit here, but I really do
authentically, like thisservice.
I, I, I wish there were more,craft breweries that were doing
something like this, uh, hint,hint, hint.
Timothy Sullivan (21:01):
Yeah.
Kura Kin is amazing.
And one of the things that isreally special about it, as you
mentioned, is that you get theselimited release bottles, which
is what we're going to tastetoday.
It's not available.
If you go to your local liquorKura, these are limited edition
bottles that you can get in thetap room.
If you visit the tap room inperson, or if you Sign up for
(21:25):
the subscription service.
All right.
So John, why don't you introduceus to the delicious sake we're
about to taste?
John Puma (21:31):
Sure.
Uh, so this one is a, uh, NamaChozo Junmai Ginjo.
Most of the additional bottlesthat come through are nama Chozo
or have been historically.
Timothy Sullivan (21:42):
Do you want to remind us what namachozo?
John Puma (21:44):
Namachozo means that it has been pasteurized, but
once,
Timothy Sullivan (21:48):
Correct.
John Puma (21:49):
the sake is all Yamada Nishiki, and it's milled
down to 60%, uh, the ABV is 16%.
The sake meter value, thatmeasure of dry to sweet, is
minus 5.
7, so it's a touch on the sweetside.
But, the acidity is 2.
6, Tim.
You know what that means.
Balance.
Balance.
(22:10):
At least that's what I'm hopingfor.
I've actually never tasted thisone.
I haven't opened it yet.
Um, and for the record, I havebottle number 182.
These are numbered.
What's yours?
Ooh, okay, not too far.
They're
Timothy Sullivan (22:22):
What's, what's this, uh, what's this special
edition called?
John Puma (22:25):
Oh yeah, I never, I never mentioned that.
Oh it is called Brooklyn Kuranear and far Now the name Tim I
think I believe the name is is ais a pun about the transition
between their original breweryand their new facility now was
this made at the new facility orthe old facility?
Would you happen to know that?
Timothy Sullivan (22:45):
I do know that for sure.
This Sake was made at the oldfacility, so the small batch
facility, and we moved from 6834th street down to 34 34th
street in Sunset Park, Brooklyn.
So near and far, we felt likeduring the transition, we would
(23:06):
go back and forth.
And, uh, so that's where thename near and far comes from for
this limited edition JunmaiGinjo.
John Puma (23:16):
excellent.
Excellent.
All right.
Well, let's crack it open andget it in the glass.
You can see what one of the lastbatches to come out of that
brewery is gonna taste like.
(23:39):
At Sake Revolution, we generallyencourage people to make use of
the wine glasses they have athome, because you probably
already have wine glasses athome.
So, They're real easy to sip outof.
They capture the aroma of sakeexceptionally well.
Um, and again, you've alreadygot them.
All right, Tim, let's get thenose going.
(24:00):
What do we have here?
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (24:03):
Well, I have a little note here from Brooklyn
Kura that says this has notes ofgolden apple and hints of melon.
John Puma (24:12):
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (24:14):
I think I picked up more on the apple
aromatics than melon per se.
John Puma (24:19):
I definitely don't pick up on the melon too much.
So yes, I'm
Timothy Sullivan (24:21):
Yeah.
John Puma (24:22):
you.
It's got a really pleasant
Timothy Sullivan (24:25):
Hmm.
John Puma (24:27):
It would have taken a while for me to arrive at Golden
Apple, though.
Hmm.
I like that.
It's kind of, it's almost alittle, like the nose is almost
a little jammy.
Just a ton, you know, not like,I know that when we talk about
jammies, like woohoo, but youknow, this is a very light one.
Light
Timothy Sullivan (24:45):
Yeah.
John Puma (24:45):
a little bit.
Timothy Sullivan (24:47):
Yeah, I pick up on notes of strawberry, and
this is going to be very random,but you know when you are
trimming strawberries, and youcut off all the green bits on
the top, and you pile them up ina little bowl?
John Puma (25:02):
them off?
Timothy Sullivan (25:02):
off the green bits on the top of
John Puma (25:04):
I just, I just, bite them off.
I just bite.
Right?
But no, it's actually not true.
I just, um, I pluck them off andI eat everything, including the
stem, but I pluck off the greenbits.
Timothy Sullivan (25:17):
Okay, let's go.
Envision this, jP.
John Puma (25:20):
I know, I know, I know, people who do it that way.
I married to somebody who doesit that way.
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan (25:31):
and I need to prepare the strawberry.
So I'm cutting off the greenbits and I've got a bowl of
those green stems.
Okay.
John Puma (25:39):
Got it.
Timothy Sullivan (25:40):
to your nose and and smell the strawberry
leaves and stems, it kind ofsmells like
John Puma (25:46):
Okay.
All right.
I'm with you.
Timothy Sullivan (25:49):
So there's a little bit of fruitiness, but I
think the golden apple and.
Strawberry
John Puma (25:56):
the strawberry is really front of mind now for me.
I'm going to be reallydisappointed if this doesn't
taste like strawberries.
Timothy Sullivan (26:04):
Let's give it a taste.
John Puma (26:05):
All right, let's, let's see what it actually does
taste like.
Timothy Sullivan (26:12):
Okay, so your note about jamminess comes
across more in the mouth, right?
it
John Puma (26:20):
It's nice.
Um, this is fun.
This is a fun sake.
Timothy Sullivan (26:25):
does have an apple crisp taste to it.
John Puma (26:29):
I will say that it's a little warm in my apartment
and we do turn off the air forthese recordings.
And so this has been sitting fora little bit as we've been
recording.
And I think it's approachingroom tempi.
And I think that's making thejamminess come out a little bit
more.
And I like it.
I think it's doing it favors.
(26:49):
It's really nice.
we've, we've talked a little bitabout how, you know, you don't
have to really warm up a sakenecessarily.
You can just, you know, give ita few degrees.
and this really comes across assomething that to me, at least
is really benefiting from just afew degrees, North of my usual
kind of, uh, 40, 42 degrees thatI usually have sake.
(27:09):
What do you think?
Timothy Sullivan (27:10):
Yeah, mine is relatively well chilled, so I, I
think it, it tastes great atthat temperature as well.
And the more this is resting onmy palate, I'm getting, we
talked about golden apple, butalso green apple, like that is
finally solidifying in my mind.
It's like, ah, it's like greenapple, Granny Smith, apple
flavors.
(27:31):
That's coming through really,
John Puma (27:32):
Granny Smith.
Mmm.
That's some good stuff.
Timothy Sullivan (27:37):
Yeah, it's it, but it does have a little bit of
a jammy texture to it, meaningthat it's not bone dry.
It's got a hint of richness.
This is only once pasteurizedand it's all Yamada Nishiki.
So that can help bring out thosefruit flavors because it
supplies a lot of starch to the,to the moromi mash.
(27:57):
So, uh, yeah, really wellcrafted.
I think this is a tinge sweeterthan most their standard sakes.
John Puma (28:06):
so I will say that I only know of a couple of other
sake's where Brooklyn Kura hasdone a full, full Yamada
Nishiki, and I think thatusually when they do, it comes
out pretty dry, and I like thatthey went the other direction
with this one, and let it get alittle sweet, and tried
something different.
Timothy Sullivan (28:26):
Yeah, so this is, an example of the type of
sake you would be able to enjoyat the Sake Studies Center.
If we have limited releases likethis I often fold them into the
sakes that we taste in class.
So we try to keep thingsinteresting and unique and
really focus on the pairings ormake sure that the sakes we
(28:48):
taste are very relevant to thetopic or what we're trying to
get across in the class.
John Puma (28:53):
mmm, nice.
All right.
So, Tim, we've, uh, we've talkedabout education.
We've sipped some delicioussake.
where can, uh, people who arecurious about taking one of
these courses or perhaps tastingsome of the sake, where can they
do that?
Timothy Sullivan (29:09):
the website is, uh, Sake studies center.com.
John Puma (29:14):
hmm.
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (29:15):
we also have an Instagram at sake studies
center.
And you can also visit theBrooklyn Kura website and
connect through.
Uh, but if you want to visit usdirectly, sake studies
center.com, and there's acourses page and we have a full
list of all the courses we'reoffering.
(29:36):
we have the sake and.
Cheese course, the introductionto sake.
We have the sake server course,coming up soon.
We also have, uh, sake anddesserts.
And one other course that isgoing to be hitting the calendar
very soon is a sparkling
John Puma (29:52):
Ooh, that's going to be interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (29:55):
Yeah, it's a survey of five different types
of sparkling sake and a littlepairing to go with each one.
So I think in the summer when itgets a little warmer, some ice
cold sparkling sake would bereally good.
John Puma (30:09):
That sounds like a good time.
Timothy Sullivan (30:11):
Yeah.
John Puma (30:12):
Cool.
Timothy Sullivan (30:13):
Well, I welcome every one of our sake
revolution listeners to checkout the Sake Study Center.
Thanks for indulging me todaywith a little bit of self
promotion.
And I'm so, so happy
John Puma (30:26):
I like that you're, I like that you're being
straightforward about it.
Like,
Timothy Sullivan (30:28):
yeah, yes,
John Puma (30:29):
self promotion,
Timothy Sullivan (30:31):
it is.
But I think, you know, I thinkhonestly, our listeners would
probably be interested in what'shappening at the Sake Study
Center.
John Puma (30:39):
right?
Timothy Sullivan (30:41):
from the Sake Revolution audience comes to the
Study Center.
Please let us know when you signup.
There's a little form when yousign up and you can put a
message in there.
Let us know if you're a SakeRevolution listener because we'd
love to connect with you whenyou come into class.
John Puma (30:56):
Oh, so if I do it, I have to say, yes, I am a
listener.
guess.
Timothy Sullivan (31:02):
Yes.
Yes.
You have to say you're a sakerevolution listener.
John Puma (31:05):
noted.
noted.
Timothy Sullivan (31:07):
so John, am I going to see you in class?
John Puma (31:08):
Yeah, let's see, I mean, I'll, I'll class.
I don't know which class yet.
Uh, you know, I, I, I'll figuresomething out.
Timothy Sullivan (31:17):
Okay.
We're halfway through the year.
You've got, you've got about sixmonths or so to figure it out.
John Puma (31:22):
halfway?
Timothy Sullivan (31:23):
Almost.
John Puma (31:24):
Oh my God.
Oh, I wasn't ready for that.
All right.
Well, hey, all right.
Good to know.
Timothy Sullivan (31:31):
All right.
Well, John, this was so muchfun.
Thanks for letting me introducethe Sake Studies Center and
thanks for tasting a BrooklynKura Sake.
I think this one is reallydelicious and I think this
bottle is going to disappearpretty soon.
John Puma (31:43):
They usually do
Timothy Sullivan (31:44):
I usually do, right?
A thank you as well to all ourlisteners and a special shout
out, hello, and extra specialthank you to our patrons.
Thank you so much forcontributing to our podcast.
Without you, Sake Revolutionwould not be possible.
So we're so grateful.
If any of our listeners wouldlike to learn more about
(32:05):
supporting us as a patron,please visit
Patreon.com/SakeRevolution.
John Puma (32:10):
yes, and also if you have a moment, please take it
and Review our show over atApple podcasts or your podcast
platform of choice It reallyhelps get the word out about the
show and you know People hearabout us a little bit more
quickly when they look up sakestuff and they say America's
first time Oh, look at that.
And and hopefully they give us alisten.
(32:31):
That's that's That's the goal.
That's the, that's the dream.
Uh, so yeah, please take a fewminutes and do that if you can.
So on that note, please grabyour glass.
Remember to keep drinking sakeand Kanpai! All right.
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