December 28, 2023 • 30 mins
Episode 161. This week, John and Timothy explore another brand profile: Masumi from Miyasaka Jozo in Nagano Prefecture. Most well known as the birthplace of Association Number 7 sake yeast, Masumi has a long history dating back to 1662. Located on beautiful Lake Suwa, Masumi is a brand that is well known outside of Japan. The brand name of "Masumi" means transparency or truth and traces its origin to an ancient bronze mirror, which is a treasure of the local shrine and is the proverbial "mirror of truth". Masumi also recently updated their label design and sake portfolio to tie into their legacy as the home of number 7 sake yeast - a yeast that has gone on to become the most widely used sake yeast in the industry. Let's explore the flavors and history of Masumi together! #SakeRevolution
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Puma (00:21):
Hello everybody.
And welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's first Sakepodcast and I am your host, John
Puma from the Sake Notes.
I'm also the guy who started theinternet Sake discord, and I'm
also the lead mod over atReddit's r slash Sake community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:36):
and I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai, I'm a sakeeducator, as well as the founder
of the Urban Sake website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, doing ourbest to make it fun and easy to
understand.
Hello!
John Puma (00:53):
Tim.
Welcome back to, uh, to theshow.
Timothy Sullivan (00:56):
Yeah, welcome back to the studio.
John Puma (00:59):
This is the Zoom studio.
Timothy Sullivan (01:00):
Yes, it's nice to be recording again.
And I'm looking forward to somesuper yummy, yummy sake today.
John Puma (01:08):
Well, you are in luck because we do have some very
yummy sake today.
and, uh, so today we're goingback into one of our series, one
of our fun series.
and which, which series is this,Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (01:21):
going to be dipping our toe back into the
branded series where we focus onone particular well known or
interesting brand of sake andtalk about what they're all
about.
John Puma (01:33):
What I find interesting is that typically
when we do these brandedepisodes, they often end up
being these brand new, um,brands or sometimes brand new
breweries.
Um, and that's not the casetoday.
Today we've got a brand and abrewery that's been around for a
long time, uh, but has recentlygone through a little bit of a,
(01:55):
a little bit of a shift.
Is that, is that, is that a fairway to put it?
Timothy Sullivan (01:58):
Yeah.
Like a reboot, redesign.
John Puma (02:01):
I or made a reboot That makes sense.
so why don't you, uh, tell thefolks at home what we're doing?
Timothy Sullivan (02:07):
Yeah.
Let's get into it.
We're going to be talking aboutthe brand Masumi today.
Now, before we get into all thedetails and history and all the
stories.
What do you know about Masumioff the top of your head?
Because it is a well known brandthat has been out there.
So what, what do you know aboutMasumi?
Mm
John Puma (02:25):
so things I know about Masami, uh, number one,
they are located in Nagano, uh,they are right by Lake Suwa, we,
I know that the family name isMiyasaka, and I know that they
discovered yeast number seven?
Timothy Sullivan (02:40):
right.
John Puma (02:41):
is that right?
Timothy Sullivan (02:42):
good.
Yes, you
John Puma (02:43):
Okay.
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (02:44):
Yeah.
John Puma (02:45):
I wasn't sure if it was like discovered or they
cultivated or what.
I know that, I know that Iassociate Masumi and yeast
number seven.
Timothy Sullivan (02:51):
very good.
Yeah.
That's the, that's the cliffnotes of the episode.
So if you're pressed for time,you can just stop here and John
filled you in on the highlightsof Masumi.
John Puma (03:00):
Well, you know, that's just, that's just.
You know, just the cliff notes.
You really should always readthe full book.
Timothy Sullivan (03:06):
Absolutely.
Uh, yeah, so the brewery namethat makes the Masumi brand is
Miyasaka Jozo.
So, as you said, Miyasaka is thefamily name.
And this brewery was founded in1662, if you can believe it.
John Puma (03:24):
that's, that's even old by like sake brewery
standards, like 1662.
Oh my goodness.
Timothy Sullivan (03:31):
I don't know, I don't know the full story, but
apparently they were Theystarted out as sword makers, and
then there was some like MiddleAges warring period in Japan,
and they decided to put down thesword and pick up the sake and
became sake makers.
And, uh, yeah, so the, thefamily business started out
(03:53):
sword making, then it switchedto sake brewing.
And there have been many, manygenerations of Miyasakas until
we get to, uh, the currentpresident.
And I thought it might beinteresting to talk about the.
The word Masumi and why theychose that as your, their brand
name and where does that comefrom?
John Puma (04:16):
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (04:17):
So you mentioned that the Brewery
Miyasakajozo is on Lake Suwa inNagano Prefecture, and there is
a shrine there in Suwa, and theshrine has an ancient treasure
which they keep and revere, andit's actually an ancient bronze
(04:40):
mirror.
So it's a piece of bronze thatwas polished eons ago to a
mirror like finish, and thisancient treasure is Kept in the
shrine and venerated there andThey decided to name their sake
Masumi which translates totransparency or truth So it's
it's a reference to this mirror,which is Revered at their local
(05:04):
shrine very Japanese, right?
Yeah,
John Puma (05:08):
quite, quite, quite, but you know, that's really cool
actually.
Yeah.
That's a, that's nice.
I like that.
It's got a local storyassociated with it.
I think that's pretty cool.
Pretty cool.
Timothy Sullivan (05:18):
and one of their one of their sake's is
mirror of truth Uh, you may havehad that in the past.
It's not what we're tastingtoday.
Spoiler alert.
But, uh, one of their, one oftheir Masumi sakes is called
Mirror of Truth.
And that refers to the nameMasumi and this bronze mirror
that's, um, the local treasureat the shrine.
John Puma (05:37):
Hmm.
Yeah.
And I, I am familiar with themirror of truth that's really
cool now.
Now, we mentioned in the CliffNotes that they've also gotten a
little bit of history associatedwith that brewery, uh, with this
yeast and,
Timothy Sullivan (05:50):
Oh yeah.
John Puma (05:51):
and probably some other stuff.
When you're around since 1662,things happen around you
sometimes, I think.
So what are some of thehighlights here?
Timothy Sullivan (05:59):
Yeah.
Well, the yeast number seven isby and large the number one
thing that Masumi is famous for.
And they had a little bit of adark period in the early part of
the 20th century where, youknow, they weren't doing well.
And the, uh, ancestors of thecurrent president went around
(06:20):
Japan and studied how to makesake and then.
In the mid 1940s, they startedwinning gold medals all of a
sudden at the national sakecompetitions.
1943 was the first time theytook the first place in the
national sake competition.
And then they did it again thenext year.
(06:40):
So in 1946 Shoichi Yamada, thescientist from the National
Brewing Institute, went to Suwa,went to Nagano, and want to
examine what was making theirsake so good.
And they isolated number sevenyeast for the first time.
And
John Puma (06:58):
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
So let me get this straight.
I'm going to repeat some of thisbecause I just want to make sure
I have this 100%.
So they were winningcompetitions and everyone was
like, wait a minute.
Why are these guys so good?
Timothy Sullivan (07:09):
yes.
John Puma (07:10):
And so they sent, so they sent somebody over to study
it and were like, Oh wait, theydiscovered a new yeast by
accident.
Timothy Sullivan (07:16):
Kind of.
I think that's it.
Yes.
John Puma (07:19):
That's so cool.
Timothy Sullivan (07:20):
mean, they weren't, they weren't fishing.
They weren't fishing for a newyeast, but my understanding is
that this kind of, uh, you know,yeast is a living thing and it,
it morphs and modifies and, theybasically could isolate off the
foam of these batches that wereso coming out so delicious that
this yeast was something new andit, it is recorded as being born
(07:46):
in.
This brewery.
So in the show notes, I'mactually going to put a picture
of the plaque that is on thewall of the Moromi room at the
Suwa Brewery where it isrecognized that number seven
yeast is was born so,
John Puma (08:01):
is, that is a really fun story.
I have to say, I really likedthat.
I love the idea that, thathappens that way.
I think these days it's probablya lot more, Done in my mind.
I feel like it's done in thelab, right?
Uh, they're trying to cultivateeach trying to do something a
certain way Uh, I like the ideathat that this was something
that was more or less ambient tothem and they were like, wait a
minute We're on to something oror other people were like, why
(08:24):
is this so good?
Why?
Timothy Sullivan (08:26):
like,
John Puma (08:27):
are up to something.
We have to check it out.
Timothy Sullivan (08:29):
I think what, well, you know, this is, this
is, this was 1946.
So Japan was, I'm surestruggling with recovery from
the war period and I think thatin the past taxes from the sale
of sake were a big income sourcefor the Japanese government.
So I think that they were alsolooking for a way to rebound the
(08:51):
sake industry.
And as we know from this postwar period, To about 1974, it
was nothing but gangbustersgrowth for the sake industry.
And 1974 is like the high point.
So, this is the beginning ofthat recovery, the post war
period.
And they were nationally lookinglike, how can we make sake
better?
How can we revitalize theindustry?
(09:13):
So, I'm sure that's thebackground for discovering this
new yeast and distributing itvery widely.
And that's another thing Iwanted to say about this is that
number seven yeast is the mostused yeast in the sake industry.
John Puma (09:28):
remember seeing that once and I was so surprised
because when I think of commonyeast in, you know, in, in 2023,
I always think of like numbernine.
That's like the thing that popsinto my head.
Cause everybody wants that kindof that little ginjo kick that
it gives and things like that.
but I did not realize thatnumber seven is still so big and
such a big deal.
Timothy Sullivan (09:48):
Yeah, it's widely distributed.
It's super reliable.
It's been around for so long,and it is the workhorse of the
premium sake industry.
So you're going to find it.
A majority of breweries in Japanare using number seven.
John Puma (10:06):
Very cool.
I like that.
I like that.
Timothy Sullivan (10:09):
So the number seven yeast story is huge.
and We were saying a moment agohow this is this, rebirth of the
sake industry and consumption'sgrowing, the Japanese economy is
recovering, it has this miraclerecovery during this post war
period, um Miyasaka Jozoresponded by building a second
(10:36):
facility to grow theirproduction capacity.
Their Suwa Brewery is theiroriginal, beautiful, old
brewery, and they needed morespace, they needed more
production capacity.
So they found a site that isaway from the Suwa Brewery, and
it's in Fujimi.
The unique thing about this isit is at an elevation of a
(10:59):
thousand meters, so it's up,it's up in the mountains.
I think I've read it's the high,it's the highest elevation sake
brewery in the world.
I think that's true.
I'm not sure, but I've heardthat.
John Puma (11:16):
Do we know why, or is this like an Everest thing where
it's like, because it was there,like, I don't like, why would
you build your sake brewery?
A thousand meters in the, that'sa lot of meters, Tim.
Timothy Sullivan (11:26):
Yes, well, I do know the answer to this
because I just read it.
The answer is that the masterbrewer at the time, lived there.
Or he was born there or fromthere or something.
So there was a connection to themaster brewer.
And that's how they found thatplot of land.
And I think the drive from onebrewery to the other is half an
(11:48):
hour or 45 minutes.
It's like a relatively Shortdrive, but it is very high up in
the elevation and it has, uh,all those considerations when
you're brewing at a highelevation.
But I think that's just a funlittle factoid that they have
one brewery, Lake Suwa, andanother one way up in the nearby
(12:08):
mountains.
John Puma (12:10):
That's interesting.
Now, For everybody at home, ifyou, if you have ever tried to
flex in some way at your, placeof work to get something, uh,
done the way you wanted to, bearin mind that we now have a bar
that you have to meet and it ishaving your, having your place
of work build an office athousand meters, uh, in the
mountains, because you're fromthere.
Timothy Sullivan (12:30):
Have you ever been to, uh, Miyasaka Jozo?
Oh,
John Puma (12:35):
No, I have not it's something we're trying to trying
to work out for the futurethough I had some some friends
that live in in the area aroundLake Suwa So it would be nice to
to see them to see the brewerythe area looks really beautiful
There's a lot of onsens on theon the lakefront So it
definitely seems like a reallyrelaxing place to visit It also,
(12:58):
it looks like there's a bunch ofsake breweries, like, kind of in
a row, uh, in that area, so thatseems like a, like a good reason
to get over
Timothy Sullivan (13:05):
Yeah, there are a number of breweries in the
area, but Masumi is really thebig kahuna in that, in that
region.
And That has a lot to do withthe current Miyasaka family
that's running things.
So the president is NaotakaMiyasaka, and his lovely wife,
Kumi, is also working at thebrewery.
(13:26):
She runs Cella Masumi, which islike the most exquisite gift
shop you will ever visit at asake brewery.
John Puma (13:34):
Really?
Timothy Sullivan (13:35):
The goods that she has curated there are just
amazing.
Textiles, sake cups, glassware.
It's just all so beautiful.
And the son, Mr.
and Mrs.
Miyasaka's son, Katsuhiko, he'sworking at the brewery as well.
And has a,, many years ofexperience working there and has
input on, uh, the currentlineup.
(13:56):
And I also want to mention ourbuddy Keith Norum.
Who's a long time ambassador forMasumi and travels the world.
Uh, we have to have him on theshow separately for sure.
John Puma (14:08):
definitely.
Timothy Sullivan (14:08):
And he is a advocate and ambassador for
Masumi and all of them are sowelcoming and so nice.
So if you get a chance to visit,definitely highly, highly
recommended.
John Puma (14:19):
Yeah, I was, fortunate enough back in 2020, I
got to go to a, an event that,Katsuhiko was doing in Tokyo.
Uh, which was an Englishlanguage event a lot about.
The new direction that thebrewery was going to be going
into.
So can we talk a little bitabout, that and, and focus on
(14:41):
what's new for them?
What, what's the new thingthey're doing?
Timothy Sullivan (14:43):
Yeah, that all started in 2019, and I think
Katsuhiko wanted to suggest tothe company to kind of redesign
and reboot a little bit of thebranding and return to the
company roots of number 7.
So before 2019, they were usinga number of different yeasts,
and I think what was suggestedwas that they produce all their
(15:08):
sake only with their proprietarystrain of number 7.
So that's what they've donesince 2019.
And And the other thing is thatthey've redesigned all their
labels, um, which is a beautifulnew redesign and they're all
cohesive, different colors, butthey have the same kind of
(15:28):
brushstroke circle design.
And you can visitsakerevolution.
com to see our show notes andsee some of the photos of the
bottles and the labels, but theymade it all cohesive and they
use this very abstract andbeautiful kind of brush,
brushstroke circle to representthe.
I assume the mirror and, kind ofbringing it all together and
(15:51):
unifying it and getting back totheir roots in a way, wouldn't
you say?
John Puma (15:55):
yeah, I think it's really interesting.
I.
It's fun to see a brewery gothrough like a really big
rebranding like this.
I can imagine though it musthave been really challenging for
the Toji and for the otherbrewers to make this switch.
You've been working with theseother yeast for so long and then
(16:16):
you've got to, you know, try toreplicate the sake you've been
making but switch up the yeast.
It's got to be a big challengefor them.
Timothy Sullivan (16:22):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Well, maybe when we get Keith onthe show someday, he can tell us
what went down behind thescenes, but we can only
speculate.
Uh, but I think it makes a lotof sense.
Like if if that's what yourbrewery is known for, that
you're the birthplace of numberseven yeast, it really does make
perfect sense that you wouldreally hang your hat on that and
(16:44):
make that the foundation of allyour products.
So it does make a lot of sense.
John Puma (16:49):
Yeah, now, when I was at that event, Katsuhiko san was
expressing a little bit aboutwhy, he wanted to do this, and
he feels that, he feels that alot of the time sake's become
lost in the shuffle, and they,they kind of taste a little
similar, and he felt like thefact that that number seven was
discovered in their brewery.
(17:09):
It's something that reallydistinguishes them.
And he wanted to focus on that.
He wanted to do to, to say, thisis what makes our brewery
different from all of the otherones.
We're going to use this yeastand we're going to focus on it.
We're going to be the best atmaking, um, number seven, yeast
sake.
And.
he feels like there's a littlebit too much, uh, sameness going
(17:29):
on.
He wanted to be different.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting.
Uh, What do you
Timothy Sullivan (17:33):
I think it's really smart, you know, you have
to play to your strengths inbranding.
And I think that's You know,when I asked you, what's the
cliff notes, what, what are thehighlights of this brand?
Like you, you knew as a sakefan, you knew off the top of
your head that number seven was,was associated with them.
So I think it makes a lot ofsense for them to, really
(17:56):
highlight that.
And I, I'm sure it was atransition for them internally,
but now that they're out theother end of it, um, it's
something that kind of ties alltheir sakes together.
And that makes for a reallystrong brand story.
John Puma (18:09):
Cool.
Well, fortunately, we've got abottle of one of their, newly,
refreshed designs.
and this is the Masumi Shiro.
Junmai ginjo that we're going tobe tasting today.
This label is, let me tell you,this label is classy looking.
It is very nice.
It is very elegant.
(18:29):
It is, the logo, which, whichTim, mentioned earlier, almost
looks like a reflection, or sowe think it may be that mirror
of truth.
Perhaps, is it's white on white.
But it's a little bit raised soyou can still see it.
It's a different texture thanthe rest of the bottle.
Again, very elegant looking,very nice.
Uh, and then your writing isgenerally in like a light gray.
(18:50):
So everything looks very subtleand purposeful.
Like I said, very, it looks verypremium to me.
That's like the vibe that I getoff of this bottle.
What do you think?
Timothy Sullivan (18:59):
beautiful, very elegant.
Totally
John Puma (19:01):
yeah.
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (19:04):
this sake is called shiro, and what does that
mean in English?
John Puma (19:07):
It means white, so they're leaning in with this
label.
Timothy Sullivan (19:09):
Yes, so white label and the sake means white,
and I looked on their websiteand they had a little
description.
I don't know what this meansexactly, but, um, they said that
Shiro is named for a soft whitecloth made from tree bark that
has the same light and buoyantcharacter.
John Puma (19:31):
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (19:32):
I guess it's named after a fabric of some
kind, but there wasn't any moreinformation than that.
And, um, they also said thatShiro is their session sake.
So let's look at why that mightbe the case.
Do you want to give us the statsfor, Masumi Shiro?
John Puma (19:49):
I will preface though, the English brand name
is sake matinee.
the rice variety being used hereis actually, we've got two of
them.
We've got a Miyama Nishiki andYamada Nishiki.
The yeast of course is theMasumi proprietary number seven.
it is brewed using the Sokujomethod.
So very modern.
And, that rice is polished downto 55 percent of its original
(20:12):
size.
And so this is a Junmai Ginjo,if I didn't mention it earlier.
one thing that's interestingabout this, it's relatively low
alcohol.
This is a 12 percent alcoholsake, so a little bit, a little
bit on the lower
Timothy Sullivan (20:23):
Aha.
Okay.
John Puma (20:24):
Yeah, uh, the acidity is 1.
5 and the sake meter value, thatmeasure of your dryness, the
sweetness is a negative three.
Timothy Sullivan (20:33):
All right.
Well that alcohol percentage isjumping out to me.
So when they say this is theirsession sake or their sip-able
sake, you can enjoy throughoutthe evening, that is what we're
zeroing in on.
So it's a lower alcohol sake.
That's really key I think, forthis particular one.
And as you mentioned, it hasthat number seven proprietary
(20:54):
yeast, which is their houseyeast.
Super historic.
John Puma (20:59):
I was actually going to ask you what a session sake
was.
I had never heard the termbefore and I'm glad you went
into that.
Timothy Sullivan (21:04):
Doesn't, doesn't that come from the beer
world?
Like a session beer is a beer
John Puma (21:08):
be.
I don't drink a lot of beer.
Timothy Sullivan (21:09):
well, we're educating all around people.
John Puma (21:13):
this is great.
So session sake.
So let's let's open it up andget it in the glass.
Timothy Sullivan (21:20):
All right, we have our Masumi Shiro Junmai
Ginjo poured.
John Puma (21:35):
Mm hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (21:35):
Let's give it.
It looks very clear.
I'm going to give it a smell.
John Puma (21:40):
Yes, it is.
Timothy Sullivan (21:44):
Mmm.
To me, it smells like peaches.
John Puma (21:47):
Yeah, peaches and um, and like.
Almost like a really mildhoneydew.
Timothy Sullivan (21:53):
Mmm.
John Puma (21:54):
Like very subtle, like not, you know, not beating
you over the head with it.
This is not the, this is notthe, ginjoka until you get a
nosebleed sake.
This is a very light one.
Timothy Sullivan (22:02):
Yes.
Well, just looking at the stats,knowing that it's 12 percent
alcohol, that, Leads me to thinkit's going to be just a milder
impression across the board.
John Puma (22:12):
Well, let's find out.
Timothy Sullivan (22:13):
All right.
Let's give it, let's give it ataste.
John Puma (22:17):
That's smooth.
Timothy Sullivan (22:18):
Hmm.
John Puma (22:20):
That was the first, the first thing that popped into
my head.
I was like, Ooh, this is, itmade me think of, browner
beverages that you would thinkabout the smoothness when you're
taking them in.
This is very smooth.
Timothy Sullivan (22:29):
Yeah.
It's, it's overall for me, it'skind of soft in the texture and
it's not.
Um, wimpy in any way, like theacidity is 1.
5, which is like right in themiddle of our usual zone.
So the acidity is there enoughto give it some structure and,
(22:50):
just has a wonderful softfruitiness that spreads across
the palate when you sip on it.
But overall, light, mild, easydrinking, and soft.
That's how, that's what I wouldsay in a nutshell.
John Puma (23:02):
Yeah, I think a hundred percent.
And, you know, you mentionedthat this is, this is their sake
for, for exactly that situation.
And I get it.
Like, it's totally, this is easydrinking.
This is something you canaccidentally, oh my goodness,
where'd the bottle go?
That kind of thing.
Timothy Sullivan (23:19):
Yeah, but overall, the.
The flavors tend to lean just atouch on the sweet side and a
touch on the fruity side.
And there's, there's the hint ofacidity that comes through that
kind of saves the day from itbeing too sweet.
And then the finish just kindof, is really soft and gentle
(23:42):
and kind of just, uh, fluttersaway on you.
right.
John Puma (23:48):
I get what you're saying there.
I like that.
descriptor.
Yeah, this is a little, thisone's a little bit challenging
for me to describe when I tasteit, to be completely honest,
because it is really subtle, butyou know, there, there's,
there's a bit going on here andit's, it's a little bit
different from your typicalsake, right?
(24:10):
I mean, there is a, you know,there it's very light and
smooth, but there's, um, there'sa deceptive amount going on, I
think.
Like if you're paying attention,it really, like you point out
that sweetness is there and thatacidity and that they play
really nicely together.
I don't know.
This is really
Timothy Sullivan (24:30):
yeah, the import label says this sake is
ideal for lunchtime sakesipping.
Hashtag, hashtag day drinking.
John Puma (24:42):
No, they don't say hashtag day drinking,
Timothy Sullivan (24:43):
I do.
John Puma (24:44):
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan (24:45):
added that part, yes.
John Puma (24:48):
Yeah.
Um,
Timothy Sullivan (24:49):
know, we need more sake for lunchtime sake
sipping, I
John Puma (24:52):
Oh, well, you know.
Timothy Sullivan (24:53):
This is a tragically underserved
community.
John Puma (24:59):
Absolutely, absolutely, I agree.
And, you know, with a lot ofalcohol, you can go back to work
and, you know, maybe beproductive.
Yeah, that's nice.
That's really good.
Timothy Sullivan (25:09):
I think beer people listening that we're
saying like 12 percent is like aeasy sipping lunchtime sake,
light as a feather, I thinkthat's a pretty hardcore beer.
John Puma (25:22):
talking about?
Timothy Sullivan (25:24):
Yes.
Well, okay.
So what are, what are we havingfor lunch?
I'm I'm down with drinking thiswith lunch, but what are we
going to order for
John Puma (25:34):
so I have to tell you, I, I have had this, this
particular bottle with dinner,not with lunch.
Uh, and I had it with, um, withsushi, with nigiri, and it was
perfect.
It was absolutely flawless.
It was a wonderful pairing.
So that's going to be my, that'sgoing to be my way in is I think
(25:55):
you should have this with sushi.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Timothy Sullivan (26:02):
any, any sweetness in like a soy sauce or
something like that.
And, uh, that could be nice.
I would like to have this forlunch with like a Caesar salad.
I think that would be reallygreat.
John Puma (26:14):
Leaning into that lunch
Timothy Sullivan (26:15):
Yes, I'm leaning into lunch.
Hashtag day drinking, and Ithink a Caesar salad with
chicken, maybe?
That would be really great.
John Puma (26:26):
think that would work really nicely, actually.
Yeah.
I gotta start opening up mylunch sake pairing ideas now.
Or rather, my lunch sake pairingoptions.
Timothy Sullivan (26:39):
Yeah, I'm gonna have to start checking
your thermos, whatever you bringto, to work with you.
John Puma (26:45):
Sir.
What are you implying?
Timothy Sullivan (26:48):
be Masumi Shiro.
John Puma (26:52):
Could be.
Timothy Sullivan (26:52):
Yeah.
So what's our overall impressionof Masumi Shiro and The brand
story.
Well, I'm going to go first.
I know I asked the question, butI'm just going to jump right in.
I think the brand story isreally compelling.
Like there's so much history andsome really historical stuff
going on.
And the thing that strikes methe most is that the current
(27:15):
generation and the nextgeneration are growing in a new
direction and creating a, a newspace for their brand and their
sake to grow.
So I think that's awesome.
Yeah.
John Puma (27:28):
I agree.
I think that change isimportant.
You need to change his growth,right?
and if you don't grow, you don'tchange you.
You can stagnate.
I really like Well, Katsuhiko's,thoughts are on the future of
the brewery.
And he, sees a way forward andhe, he knows what he wants to do
and he's, and he's acting on it.
And I think that's like.
(27:50):
I think that's really nice.
I think that's cool.
Uh, I think a lot of timespeople come into a situation
like this and you don't want tomess with anything, right?
Uh, and I think that in his, inhis mind he's got a lot of
things he wants to do and he'sgetting started early and he
sees a future for the brewerythat's like very focused and
very direct and he's, he's goingfor it.
He's got a vision.
That's what I'm trying to say.
He's got a vision.
Timothy Sullivan (28:11):
Awesome.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And it was so awesome and solucky that you got to go to that
event in English.
Like, how awesome is that?
John Puma (28:20):
Definitely a very, um, unusual opportunity, but I'm
really glad that we decided togo to it.
Timothy Sullivan (28:26):
Yeah.
Well, I think that Masumi isgoing to have a lot of great
stuff coming up in the future.
We really have to keep our eyeon this brand.
And I'm so happy we got to talkabout them today.
John Puma (28:41):
Absolutely.
huh.
It
Timothy Sullivan (28:43):
was so great to taste with you.
Thanks for Hashtag day drinkingwith me today and, uh, love this
Masumi Shiro Junmai Ginjo,fabulous.
I want to thank our listenersagain so much for tuning in.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
Uh, we hope that you learned alittle bit about Masumi and
we'll give their brand a try.
(29:04):
A special hello and thank you toour patrons.
Thank you guys so much.
Now, if you would like tosupport Sake Revolution and
these shows are interesting toyou, please visit our Patreon.
That's atPatreon.com/SakeRevolution,
where you can learn more aboutsigning up and supporting the
show.
John Puma (29:21):
and if you liked what we had to say today and you want
to give us your thoughts, youcan reach out to us and contact
us atFeedback@SakeRevolution.Com.
We're always excited to hearfrom you.
Uh, you can also reach out tosake revolution on Instagram and
other social media outlets outthere.
(29:42):
Not doing the, we're not doingthe Tik Tok thing yet, right
Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (29:45):
No, not yet.
John Puma (29:46):
No.
No.
Okay.
So no TikTok guys.
No TikTok.
Next time?
Maybe, probably not.
Okay.
So please raise a glass.
Remember to keep drinking sakeand come pie
Hello everybody.
And welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's first Sakepodcast and I am your host, John
Puma from the Sake Notes.
I'm also the guy who started theinternet Sake discord, and I'm
also the lead mod over atReddit's r slash Sake community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:36):
and I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai, I'm a sakeeducator, as well as the founder
of the Urban Sake website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, doing ourbest to make it fun and easy to
understand.
Hello!
John Puma (00:53):
Tim.
Welcome back to, uh, to theshow.
Timothy Sullivan (00:56):
Yeah, welcome back to the studio.
John Puma (00:59):
This is the Zoom studio.
Timothy Sullivan (01:00):
Yes, it's nice to be recording again.
And I'm looking forward to somesuper yummy, yummy sake today.
John Puma (01:08):
Well, you are in luck because we do have some very
yummy sake today.
and, uh, so today we're goingback into one of our series, one
of our fun series.
and which, which series is this,Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (01:21):
going to be dipping our toe back into the
branded series where we focus onone particular well known or
interesting brand of sake andtalk about what they're all
about.
John Puma (01:33):
What I find interesting is that typically
when we do these brandedepisodes, they often end up
being these brand new, um,brands or sometimes brand new
breweries.
Um, and that's not the casetoday.
Today we've got a brand and abrewery that's been around for a
long time, uh, but has recentlygone through a little bit of a,
(01:55):
a little bit of a shift.
Is that, is that, is that a fairway to put it?
Timothy Sullivan (01:58):
Yeah.
Like a reboot, redesign.
John Puma (02:01):
I or made a reboot That makes sense.
so why don't you, uh, tell thefolks at home what we're doing?
Timothy Sullivan (02:07):
Yeah.
Let's get into it.
We're going to be talking aboutthe brand Masumi today.
Now, before we get into all thedetails and history and all the
stories.
What do you know about Masumioff the top of your head?
Because it is a well known brandthat has been out there.
So what, what do you know aboutMasumi?
Mm
John Puma (02:25):
so things I know about Masami, uh, number one,
they are located in Nagano, uh,they are right by Lake Suwa, we,
I know that the family name isMiyasaka, and I know that they
discovered yeast number seven?
Timothy Sullivan (02:40):
right.
John Puma (02:41):
is that right?
Timothy Sullivan (02:42):
good.
Yes, you
John Puma (02:43):
Okay.
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (02:44):
Yeah.
John Puma (02:45):
I wasn't sure if it was like discovered or they
cultivated or what.
I know that, I know that Iassociate Masumi and yeast
number seven.
Timothy Sullivan (02:51):
very good.
Yeah.
That's the, that's the cliffnotes of the episode.
So if you're pressed for time,you can just stop here and John
filled you in on the highlightsof Masumi.
John Puma (03:00):
Well, you know, that's just, that's just.
You know, just the cliff notes.
You really should always readthe full book.
Timothy Sullivan (03:06):
Absolutely.
Uh, yeah, so the brewery namethat makes the Masumi brand is
Miyasaka Jozo.
So, as you said, Miyasaka is thefamily name.
And this brewery was founded in1662, if you can believe it.
John Puma (03:24):
that's, that's even old by like sake brewery
standards, like 1662.
Oh my goodness.
Timothy Sullivan (03:31):
I don't know, I don't know the full story, but
apparently they were Theystarted out as sword makers, and
then there was some like MiddleAges warring period in Japan,
and they decided to put down thesword and pick up the sake and
became sake makers.
And, uh, yeah, so the, thefamily business started out
(03:53):
sword making, then it switchedto sake brewing.
And there have been many, manygenerations of Miyasakas until
we get to, uh, the currentpresident.
And I thought it might beinteresting to talk about the.
The word Masumi and why theychose that as your, their brand
name and where does that comefrom?
John Puma (04:16):
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (04:17):
So you mentioned that the Brewery
Miyasakajozo is on Lake Suwa inNagano Prefecture, and there is
a shrine there in Suwa, and theshrine has an ancient treasure
which they keep and revere, andit's actually an ancient bronze
(04:40):
mirror.
So it's a piece of bronze thatwas polished eons ago to a
mirror like finish, and thisancient treasure is Kept in the
shrine and venerated there andThey decided to name their sake
Masumi which translates totransparency or truth So it's
it's a reference to this mirror,which is Revered at their local
(05:04):
shrine very Japanese, right?
Yeah,
John Puma (05:08):
quite, quite, quite, but you know, that's really cool
actually.
Yeah.
That's a, that's nice.
I like that.
It's got a local storyassociated with it.
I think that's pretty cool.
Pretty cool.
Timothy Sullivan (05:18):
and one of their one of their sake's is
mirror of truth Uh, you may havehad that in the past.
It's not what we're tastingtoday.
Spoiler alert.
But, uh, one of their, one oftheir Masumi sakes is called
Mirror of Truth.
And that refers to the nameMasumi and this bronze mirror
that's, um, the local treasureat the shrine.
John Puma (05:37):
Hmm.
Yeah.
And I, I am familiar with themirror of truth that's really
cool now.
Now, we mentioned in the CliffNotes that they've also gotten a
little bit of history associatedwith that brewery, uh, with this
yeast and,
Timothy Sullivan (05:50):
Oh yeah.
John Puma (05:51):
and probably some other stuff.
When you're around since 1662,things happen around you
sometimes, I think.
So what are some of thehighlights here?
Timothy Sullivan (05:59):
Yeah.
Well, the yeast number seven isby and large the number one
thing that Masumi is famous for.
And they had a little bit of adark period in the early part of
the 20th century where, youknow, they weren't doing well.
And the, uh, ancestors of thecurrent president went around
(06:20):
Japan and studied how to makesake and then.
In the mid 1940s, they startedwinning gold medals all of a
sudden at the national sakecompetitions.
1943 was the first time theytook the first place in the
national sake competition.
And then they did it again thenext year.
(06:40):
So in 1946 Shoichi Yamada, thescientist from the National
Brewing Institute, went to Suwa,went to Nagano, and want to
examine what was making theirsake so good.
And they isolated number sevenyeast for the first time.
And
John Puma (06:58):
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
So let me get this straight.
I'm going to repeat some of thisbecause I just want to make sure
I have this 100%.
So they were winningcompetitions and everyone was
like, wait a minute.
Why are these guys so good?
Timothy Sullivan (07:09):
yes.
John Puma (07:10):
And so they sent, so they sent somebody over to study
it and were like, Oh wait, theydiscovered a new yeast by
accident.
Timothy Sullivan (07:16):
Kind of.
I think that's it.
Yes.
John Puma (07:19):
That's so cool.
Timothy Sullivan (07:20):
mean, they weren't, they weren't fishing.
They weren't fishing for a newyeast, but my understanding is
that this kind of, uh, you know,yeast is a living thing and it,
it morphs and modifies and, theybasically could isolate off the
foam of these batches that wereso coming out so delicious that
this yeast was something new andit, it is recorded as being born
(07:46):
in.
This brewery.
So in the show notes, I'mactually going to put a picture
of the plaque that is on thewall of the Moromi room at the
Suwa Brewery where it isrecognized that number seven
yeast is was born so,
John Puma (08:01):
is, that is a really fun story.
I have to say, I really likedthat.
I love the idea that, thathappens that way.
I think these days it's probablya lot more, Done in my mind.
I feel like it's done in thelab, right?
Uh, they're trying to cultivateeach trying to do something a
certain way Uh, I like the ideathat that this was something
that was more or less ambient tothem and they were like, wait a
minute We're on to something oror other people were like, why
(08:24):
is this so good?
Why?
Timothy Sullivan (08:26):
like,
John Puma (08:27):
are up to something.
We have to check it out.
Timothy Sullivan (08:29):
I think what, well, you know, this is, this
is, this was 1946.
So Japan was, I'm surestruggling with recovery from
the war period and I think thatin the past taxes from the sale
of sake were a big income sourcefor the Japanese government.
So I think that they were alsolooking for a way to rebound the
(08:51):
sake industry.
And as we know from this postwar period, To about 1974, it
was nothing but gangbustersgrowth for the sake industry.
And 1974 is like the high point.
So, this is the beginning ofthat recovery, the post war
period.
And they were nationally lookinglike, how can we make sake
better?
How can we revitalize theindustry?
(09:13):
So, I'm sure that's thebackground for discovering this
new yeast and distributing itvery widely.
And that's another thing Iwanted to say about this is that
number seven yeast is the mostused yeast in the sake industry.
John Puma (09:28):
remember seeing that once and I was so surprised
because when I think of commonyeast in, you know, in, in 2023,
I always think of like numbernine.
That's like the thing that popsinto my head.
Cause everybody wants that kindof that little ginjo kick that
it gives and things like that.
but I did not realize thatnumber seven is still so big and
such a big deal.
Timothy Sullivan (09:48):
Yeah, it's widely distributed.
It's super reliable.
It's been around for so long,and it is the workhorse of the
premium sake industry.
So you're going to find it.
A majority of breweries in Japanare using number seven.
John Puma (10:06):
Very cool.
I like that.
I like that.
Timothy Sullivan (10:09):
So the number seven yeast story is huge.
and We were saying a moment agohow this is this, rebirth of the
sake industry and consumption'sgrowing, the Japanese economy is
recovering, it has this miraclerecovery during this post war
period, um Miyasaka Jozoresponded by building a second
(10:36):
facility to grow theirproduction capacity.
Their Suwa Brewery is theiroriginal, beautiful, old
brewery, and they needed morespace, they needed more
production capacity.
So they found a site that isaway from the Suwa Brewery, and
it's in Fujimi.
The unique thing about this isit is at an elevation of a
(10:59):
thousand meters, so it's up,it's up in the mountains.
I think I've read it's the high,it's the highest elevation sake
brewery in the world.
I think that's true.
I'm not sure, but I've heardthat.
John Puma (11:16):
Do we know why, or is this like an Everest thing where
it's like, because it was there,like, I don't like, why would
you build your sake brewery?
A thousand meters in the, that'sa lot of meters, Tim.
Timothy Sullivan (11:26):
Yes, well, I do know the answer to this
because I just read it.
The answer is that the masterbrewer at the time, lived there.
Or he was born there or fromthere or something.
So there was a connection to themaster brewer.
And that's how they found thatplot of land.
And I think the drive from onebrewery to the other is half an
(11:48):
hour or 45 minutes.
It's like a relatively Shortdrive, but it is very high up in
the elevation and it has, uh,all those considerations when
you're brewing at a highelevation.
But I think that's just a funlittle factoid that they have
one brewery, Lake Suwa, andanother one way up in the nearby
(12:08):
mountains.
John Puma (12:10):
That's interesting.
Now, For everybody at home, ifyou, if you have ever tried to
flex in some way at your, placeof work to get something, uh,
done the way you wanted to, bearin mind that we now have a bar
that you have to meet and it ishaving your, having your place
of work build an office athousand meters, uh, in the
mountains, because you're fromthere.
Timothy Sullivan (12:30):
Have you ever been to, uh, Miyasaka Jozo?
Oh,
John Puma (12:35):
No, I have not it's something we're trying to trying
to work out for the futurethough I had some some friends
that live in in the area aroundLake Suwa So it would be nice to
to see them to see the brewerythe area looks really beautiful
There's a lot of onsens on theon the lakefront So it
definitely seems like a reallyrelaxing place to visit It also,
(12:58):
it looks like there's a bunch ofsake breweries, like, kind of in
a row, uh, in that area, so thatseems like a, like a good reason
to get over
Timothy Sullivan (13:05):
Yeah, there are a number of breweries in the
area, but Masumi is really thebig kahuna in that, in that
region.
And That has a lot to do withthe current Miyasaka family
that's running things.
So the president is NaotakaMiyasaka, and his lovely wife,
Kumi, is also working at thebrewery.
(13:26):
She runs Cella Masumi, which islike the most exquisite gift
shop you will ever visit at asake brewery.
John Puma (13:34):
Really?
Timothy Sullivan (13:35):
The goods that she has curated there are just
amazing.
Textiles, sake cups, glassware.
It's just all so beautiful.
And the son, Mr.
and Mrs.
Miyasaka's son, Katsuhiko, he'sworking at the brewery as well.
And has a,, many years ofexperience working there and has
input on, uh, the currentlineup.
(13:56):
And I also want to mention ourbuddy Keith Norum.
Who's a long time ambassador forMasumi and travels the world.
Uh, we have to have him on theshow separately for sure.
John Puma (14:08):
definitely.
Timothy Sullivan (14:08):
And he is a advocate and ambassador for
Masumi and all of them are sowelcoming and so nice.
So if you get a chance to visit,definitely highly, highly
recommended.
John Puma (14:19):
Yeah, I was, fortunate enough back in 2020, I
got to go to a, an event that,Katsuhiko was doing in Tokyo.
Uh, which was an Englishlanguage event a lot about.
The new direction that thebrewery was going to be going
into.
So can we talk a little bitabout, that and, and focus on
(14:41):
what's new for them?
What, what's the new thingthey're doing?
Timothy Sullivan (14:43):
Yeah, that all started in 2019, and I think
Katsuhiko wanted to suggest tothe company to kind of redesign
and reboot a little bit of thebranding and return to the
company roots of number 7.
So before 2019, they were usinga number of different yeasts,
and I think what was suggestedwas that they produce all their
(15:08):
sake only with their proprietarystrain of number 7.
So that's what they've donesince 2019.
And And the other thing is thatthey've redesigned all their
labels, um, which is a beautifulnew redesign and they're all
cohesive, different colors, butthey have the same kind of
(15:28):
brushstroke circle design.
And you can visitsakerevolution.
com to see our show notes andsee some of the photos of the
bottles and the labels, but theymade it all cohesive and they
use this very abstract andbeautiful kind of brush,
brushstroke circle to representthe.
I assume the mirror and, kind ofbringing it all together and
(15:51):
unifying it and getting back totheir roots in a way, wouldn't
you say?
John Puma (15:55):
yeah, I think it's really interesting.
I.
It's fun to see a brewery gothrough like a really big
rebranding like this.
I can imagine though it musthave been really challenging for
the Toji and for the otherbrewers to make this switch.
You've been working with theseother yeast for so long and then
(16:16):
you've got to, you know, try toreplicate the sake you've been
making but switch up the yeast.
It's got to be a big challengefor them.
Timothy Sullivan (16:22):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Well, maybe when we get Keith onthe show someday, he can tell us
what went down behind thescenes, but we can only
speculate.
Uh, but I think it makes a lotof sense.
Like if if that's what yourbrewery is known for, that
you're the birthplace of numberseven yeast, it really does make
perfect sense that you wouldreally hang your hat on that and
(16:44):
make that the foundation of allyour products.
So it does make a lot of sense.
John Puma (16:49):
Yeah, now, when I was at that event, Katsuhiko san was
expressing a little bit aboutwhy, he wanted to do this, and
he feels that, he feels that alot of the time sake's become
lost in the shuffle, and they,they kind of taste a little
similar, and he felt like thefact that that number seven was
discovered in their brewery.
(17:09):
It's something that reallydistinguishes them.
And he wanted to focus on that.
He wanted to do to, to say, thisis what makes our brewery
different from all of the otherones.
We're going to use this yeastand we're going to focus on it.
We're going to be the best atmaking, um, number seven, yeast
sake.
And.
he feels like there's a littlebit too much, uh, sameness going
(17:29):
on.
He wanted to be different.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting.
Uh, What do you
Timothy Sullivan (17:33):
I think it's really smart, you know, you have
to play to your strengths inbranding.
And I think that's You know,when I asked you, what's the
cliff notes, what, what are thehighlights of this brand?
Like you, you knew as a sakefan, you knew off the top of
your head that number seven was,was associated with them.
So I think it makes a lot ofsense for them to, really
(17:56):
highlight that.
And I, I'm sure it was atransition for them internally,
but now that they're out theother end of it, um, it's
something that kind of ties alltheir sakes together.
And that makes for a reallystrong brand story.
John Puma (18:09):
Cool.
Well, fortunately, we've got abottle of one of their, newly,
refreshed designs.
and this is the Masumi Shiro.
Junmai ginjo that we're going tobe tasting today.
This label is, let me tell you,this label is classy looking.
It is very nice.
It is very elegant.
(18:29):
It is, the logo, which, whichTim, mentioned earlier, almost
looks like a reflection, or sowe think it may be that mirror
of truth.
Perhaps, is it's white on white.
But it's a little bit raised soyou can still see it.
It's a different texture thanthe rest of the bottle.
Again, very elegant looking,very nice.
Uh, and then your writing isgenerally in like a light gray.
(18:50):
So everything looks very subtleand purposeful.
Like I said, very, it looks verypremium to me.
That's like the vibe that I getoff of this bottle.
What do you think?
Timothy Sullivan (18:59):
beautiful, very elegant.
Totally
John Puma (19:01):
yeah.
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (19:04):
this sake is called shiro, and what does that
mean in English?
John Puma (19:07):
It means white, so they're leaning in with this
label.
Timothy Sullivan (19:09):
Yes, so white label and the sake means white,
and I looked on their websiteand they had a little
description.
I don't know what this meansexactly, but, um, they said that
Shiro is named for a soft whitecloth made from tree bark that
has the same light and buoyantcharacter.
John Puma (19:31):
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (19:32):
I guess it's named after a fabric of some
kind, but there wasn't any moreinformation than that.
And, um, they also said thatShiro is their session sake.
So let's look at why that mightbe the case.
Do you want to give us the statsfor, Masumi Shiro?
John Puma (19:49):
I will preface though, the English brand name
is sake matinee.
the rice variety being used hereis actually, we've got two of
them.
We've got a Miyama Nishiki andYamada Nishiki.
The yeast of course is theMasumi proprietary number seven.
it is brewed using the Sokujomethod.
So very modern.
And, that rice is polished downto 55 percent of its original
(20:12):
size.
And so this is a Junmai Ginjo,if I didn't mention it earlier.
one thing that's interestingabout this, it's relatively low
alcohol.
This is a 12 percent alcoholsake, so a little bit, a little
bit on the lower
Timothy Sullivan (20:23):
Aha.
Okay.
John Puma (20:24):
Yeah, uh, the acidity is 1.
5 and the sake meter value, thatmeasure of your dryness, the
sweetness is a negative three.
Timothy Sullivan (20:33):
All right.
Well that alcohol percentage isjumping out to me.
So when they say this is theirsession sake or their sip-able
sake, you can enjoy throughoutthe evening, that is what we're
zeroing in on.
So it's a lower alcohol sake.
That's really key I think, forthis particular one.
And as you mentioned, it hasthat number seven proprietary
(20:54):
yeast, which is their houseyeast.
Super historic.
John Puma (20:59):
I was actually going to ask you what a session sake
was.
I had never heard the termbefore and I'm glad you went
into that.
Timothy Sullivan (21:04):
Doesn't, doesn't that come from the beer
world?
Like a session beer is a beer
John Puma (21:08):
be.
I don't drink a lot of beer.
Timothy Sullivan (21:09):
well, we're educating all around people.
John Puma (21:13):
this is great.
So session sake.
So let's let's open it up andget it in the glass.
Timothy Sullivan (21:20):
All right, we have our Masumi Shiro Junmai
Ginjo poured.
John Puma (21:35):
Mm hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (21:35):
Let's give it.
It looks very clear.
I'm going to give it a smell.
John Puma (21:40):
Yes, it is.
Timothy Sullivan (21:44):
Mmm.
To me, it smells like peaches.
John Puma (21:47):
Yeah, peaches and um, and like.
Almost like a really mildhoneydew.
Timothy Sullivan (21:53):
Mmm.
John Puma (21:54):
Like very subtle, like not, you know, not beating
you over the head with it.
This is not the, this is notthe, ginjoka until you get a
nosebleed sake.
This is a very light one.
Timothy Sullivan (22:02):
Yes.
Well, just looking at the stats,knowing that it's 12 percent
alcohol, that, Leads me to thinkit's going to be just a milder
impression across the board.
John Puma (22:12):
Well, let's find out.
Timothy Sullivan (22:13):
All right.
Let's give it, let's give it ataste.
John Puma (22:17):
That's smooth.
Timothy Sullivan (22:18):
Hmm.
John Puma (22:20):
That was the first, the first thing that popped into
my head.
I was like, Ooh, this is, itmade me think of, browner
beverages that you would thinkabout the smoothness when you're
taking them in.
This is very smooth.
Timothy Sullivan (22:29):
Yeah.
It's, it's overall for me, it'skind of soft in the texture and
it's not.
Um, wimpy in any way, like theacidity is 1.
5, which is like right in themiddle of our usual zone.
So the acidity is there enoughto give it some structure and,
(22:50):
just has a wonderful softfruitiness that spreads across
the palate when you sip on it.
But overall, light, mild, easydrinking, and soft.
That's how, that's what I wouldsay in a nutshell.
John Puma (23:02):
Yeah, I think a hundred percent.
And, you know, you mentionedthat this is, this is their sake
for, for exactly that situation.
And I get it.
Like, it's totally, this is easydrinking.
This is something you canaccidentally, oh my goodness,
where'd the bottle go?
That kind of thing.
Timothy Sullivan (23:19):
Yeah, but overall, the.
The flavors tend to lean just atouch on the sweet side and a
touch on the fruity side.
And there's, there's the hint ofacidity that comes through that
kind of saves the day from itbeing too sweet.
And then the finish just kindof, is really soft and gentle
(23:42):
and kind of just, uh, fluttersaway on you.
right.
John Puma (23:48):
I get what you're saying there.
I like that.
descriptor.
Yeah, this is a little, thisone's a little bit challenging
for me to describe when I tasteit, to be completely honest,
because it is really subtle, butyou know, there, there's,
there's a bit going on here andit's, it's a little bit
different from your typicalsake, right?
(24:10):
I mean, there is a, you know,there it's very light and
smooth, but there's, um, there'sa deceptive amount going on, I
think.
Like if you're paying attention,it really, like you point out
that sweetness is there and thatacidity and that they play
really nicely together.
I don't know.
This is really
Timothy Sullivan (24:30):
yeah, the import label says this sake is
ideal for lunchtime sakesipping.
Hashtag, hashtag day drinking.
John Puma (24:42):
No, they don't say hashtag day drinking,
Timothy Sullivan (24:43):
I do.
John Puma (24:44):
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan (24:45):
added that part, yes.
John Puma (24:48):
Yeah.
Um,
Timothy Sullivan (24:49):
know, we need more sake for lunchtime sake
sipping, I
John Puma (24:52):
Oh, well, you know.
Timothy Sullivan (24:53):
This is a tragically underserved
community.
John Puma (24:59):
Absolutely, absolutely, I agree.
And, you know, with a lot ofalcohol, you can go back to work
and, you know, maybe beproductive.
Yeah, that's nice.
That's really good.
Timothy Sullivan (25:09):
I think beer people listening that we're
saying like 12 percent is like aeasy sipping lunchtime sake,
light as a feather, I thinkthat's a pretty hardcore beer.
John Puma (25:22):
talking about?
Timothy Sullivan (25:24):
Yes.
Well, okay.
So what are, what are we havingfor lunch?
I'm I'm down with drinking thiswith lunch, but what are we
going to order for
John Puma (25:34):
so I have to tell you, I, I have had this, this
particular bottle with dinner,not with lunch.
Uh, and I had it with, um, withsushi, with nigiri, and it was
perfect.
It was absolutely flawless.
It was a wonderful pairing.
So that's going to be my, that'sgoing to be my way in is I think
(25:55):
you should have this with sushi.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Timothy Sullivan (26:02):
any, any sweetness in like a soy sauce or
something like that.
And, uh, that could be nice.
I would like to have this forlunch with like a Caesar salad.
I think that would be reallygreat.
John Puma (26:14):
Leaning into that lunch
Timothy Sullivan (26:15):
Yes, I'm leaning into lunch.
Hashtag day drinking, and Ithink a Caesar salad with
chicken, maybe?
That would be really great.
John Puma (26:26):
think that would work really nicely, actually.
Yeah.
I gotta start opening up mylunch sake pairing ideas now.
Or rather, my lunch sake pairingoptions.
Timothy Sullivan (26:39):
Yeah, I'm gonna have to start checking
your thermos, whatever you bringto, to work with you.
John Puma (26:45):
Sir.
What are you implying?
Timothy Sullivan (26:48):
be Masumi Shiro.
John Puma (26:52):
Could be.
Timothy Sullivan (26:52):
Yeah.
So what's our overall impressionof Masumi Shiro and The brand
story.
Well, I'm going to go first.
I know I asked the question, butI'm just going to jump right in.
I think the brand story isreally compelling.
Like there's so much history andsome really historical stuff
going on.
And the thing that strikes methe most is that the current
(27:15):
generation and the nextgeneration are growing in a new
direction and creating a, a newspace for their brand and their
sake to grow.
So I think that's awesome.
Yeah.
John Puma (27:28):
I agree.
I think that change isimportant.
You need to change his growth,right?
and if you don't grow, you don'tchange you.
You can stagnate.
I really like Well, Katsuhiko's,thoughts are on the future of
the brewery.
And he, sees a way forward andhe, he knows what he wants to do
and he's, and he's acting on it.
And I think that's like.
(27:50):
I think that's really nice.
I think that's cool.
Uh, I think a lot of timespeople come into a situation
like this and you don't want tomess with anything, right?
Uh, and I think that in his, inhis mind he's got a lot of
things he wants to do and he'sgetting started early and he
sees a future for the brewerythat's like very focused and
very direct and he's, he's goingfor it.
He's got a vision.
That's what I'm trying to say.
He's got a vision.
Timothy Sullivan (28:11):
Awesome.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And it was so awesome and solucky that you got to go to that
event in English.
Like, how awesome is that?
John Puma (28:20):
Definitely a very, um, unusual opportunity, but I'm
really glad that we decided togo to it.
Timothy Sullivan (28:26):
Yeah.
Well, I think that Masumi isgoing to have a lot of great
stuff coming up in the future.
We really have to keep our eyeon this brand.
And I'm so happy we got to talkabout them today.
John Puma (28:41):
Absolutely.
huh.
It
Timothy Sullivan (28:43):
was so great to taste with you.
Thanks for Hashtag day drinkingwith me today and, uh, love this
Masumi Shiro Junmai Ginjo,fabulous.
I want to thank our listenersagain so much for tuning in.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
Uh, we hope that you learned alittle bit about Masumi and
we'll give their brand a try.
(29:04):
A special hello and thank you toour patrons.
Thank you guys so much.
Now, if you would like tosupport Sake Revolution and
these shows are interesting toyou, please visit our Patreon.
That's atPatreon.com/SakeRevolution,
where you can learn more aboutsigning up and supporting the
show.
John Puma (29:21):
and if you liked what we had to say today and you want
to give us your thoughts, youcan reach out to us and contact
us atFeedback@SakeRevolution.Com.
We're always excited to hearfrom you.
Uh, you can also reach out tosake revolution on Instagram and
other social media outlets outthere.
(29:42):
Not doing the, we're not doingthe Tik Tok thing yet, right
Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (29:45):
No, not yet.
John Puma (29:46):
No.
No.
Okay.
So no TikTok guys.
No TikTok.
Next time?
Maybe, probably not.
Okay.
So please raise a glass.
Remember to keep drinking sakeand come pie
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