May 29, 2024 • 31 mins
Episode 167. If we think about sake, usually an image of a glass bottle pops to mind. But if we scratch the surface and investigate a bit more the way that sake is packaged and shipped, there is a world of variety out there you may not have considered! This leads us to our latest series we are calling "Funky Packaging"... think of it as sake beyond the glass bottle. Cups, bags, paks, and today's packaging - the Kikusui Funaguchi "Smart Pouch". It's kinda like a Capri Sun and a boxed wine had a baby. This is definitely not your old school glass sake bottle. The spout allows for quick and easy dispensing with no oxygen exposure and the pouch itself stands up on it's own without a box. Listen in as we explore another variation of funky packaging. #SakeRevolution
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Puma (00:21):
Hello everybody.
And welcome to sake revolution.
This is America's first sakepodcast and When you know it,
I'm your host, John Puma fromthe Sake Notes.
Also from the Internet SakeDiscord and Reddit's r slash
sake community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:35):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a sake samurai.
I'm a sake educator, as well asthe founder of the Urban Sake
website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, and doingour best to make it fun and easy
to understand.
Hey, John.
John Puma (00:54):
Hey, Tim, what are you hear?
Timothy Sullivan (00:57):
Well, you know, I really liked our last
episode focusing on the funk,funky packaging.
Do you remember that?
Yes.
John Puma (01:08):
in my mind.
I distinctly remember the, theweirdly, um, uh, perhaps
inappropriate juice box and thesake that honestly, was better
than it had any right to becoming out of a juice box or a
straw.
Like I was like very takenaback.
I was like, wait a minute.
This is actually a legitimate,this is pretty good.
(01:29):
yeah.
So what's, what's today?
Capri Sun?
Timothy Sullivan (01:33):
I wish.
No, today is another funkypackaging.
John Puma (01:39):
Uh huh.
Timothy Sullivan (01:40):
got mini obsessed.
John Puma (01:43):
Mini
Timothy Sullivan (01:43):
I found something pretty darn funky.
Which I dropped off to you.
And today, we're going toexplore another round of Funky
packaging for sake.
John Puma (01:56):
packaging.
Timothy Sullivan (01:58):
I went to the manufacturer's website for this
funky packaging and they sayright on their webpage that this
is the future of sake.
John Puma (02:07):
The future of sake.
Timothy Sullivan (02:09):
Yes,
John Puma (02:10):
All right.
That's a pretty, um, that's alofty statement, I think.
Right.
Timothy Sullivan (02:15):
pretty bold statement, but I am excited to
get started.
John Puma (02:19):
Hmm.
Yeah.
This is a sake that I'm prettysure we have featured before,
just never in this packaging,right?
Timothy Sullivan (02:29):
Yes,
John Puma (02:30):
yeah, so, so what we've got, what is, what is on
my desk right now, what Timothyhas given me.
is actually not too far off fromthe Capri Sun joke I made
earlier.
So, um, you remember last week,we talked a little bit about, we
reminisced a little bit aboutCapri Sun, the, uh, the pouch,
what, you had a straw, youstabbed through the straw, and
(02:52):
then, and then you, you drinkyour, your beverage while we
were having our juice box.
This week, Tim went and found Abag, a bag that looks a little,
I'm not going to say, I'm notgoing to lie.
It looks a little, it makes methink of Capri Sun, just a much,
much larger one.
And in this case, we're notusing a straw to stab through
it.
Although I, if I wereparticularly thirsty, I guess I
(03:15):
could, but this is a, This is a1500 milliliter bag of sake.
Timothy Sullivan (03:24):
Yes,
John Puma (03:25):
And if it wasn't sitting on my desk, I wouldn't
believe it.
Timothy Sullivan (03:30):
yes, this is, called a smart pouch.
John Puma (03:33):
Smart pouch.
Timothy Sullivan (03:35):
Yes, it is a pouch.
1500 milliliter pouch of sake,as you said, almost, almost up
to a full isho bin size.
And it weighs about five pounds.
I could do some curls with this.
John Puma (03:52):
Yeah, I guess I could.
Timothy Sullivan (03:53):
yeah, to give our listeners An image of what
we're looking at here, it isbasically a freestanding plastic
pouch sealed at the top, and ithas a spout coming off of it.
Very much like a bag in boxwine, right?
Like the boxed wine with thespout.
We've all seen that.
(04:14):
And if you look inside the boxedwine, there's like a plastic
bladder in there, right?
With a spout coming off of it.
Yes,
John Puma (04:22):
um, and it looks to me like this, the smart pouch is
that, without the box, and uh,with sake instead of wine.
Timothy Sullivan (04:33):
Yeah, so the Type of packaging that this is,
I think, inspired by is what isknown as B.
I.
B.
Or, yeah, there's a Wikipediapage dedicated to B.
I.
B., which is bag in box alcohol,bag in box alcohol.
And it's similar to the juicebox design that we had last
(04:57):
week, this is a similarpolyethylene material and it's
food safe and it has a spoutcoming out and it has a unique
fold on the bottom.
So it could kind of standupright, right?
It can like stand on its own.
John Puma (05:16):
Which I believe the Capri Sun had that, that, that
general shape.
Timothy Sullivan (05:21):
Yes,
John Puma (05:22):
You could stand it up.
Cause you had to stand it up.
Cause you had, you know, he waslike, here, we're going to punch
the hole in it with the straw.
And then it sits on your, onyour table next to your lunch.
I don't,
Timothy Sullivan (05:31):
true.
If this was If this was a CapriSun, that, the basic shape is
similar.
You're absolutely right.
It had like that fold on thebottom so it could stand up.
John Puma (05:43):
It's just a really
Timothy Sullivan (05:45):
really big
John Puma (05:46):
significantly large.
I don't know how manymilliliters were in a Capri Sun,
but I'm going to guess it wasn't1, 500.
Timothy Sullivan (05:54):
Well, we should also let the cat out of
the bag about which producer andwhich sake this is.
So, do you want to give us thesake name and the stats?
John Puma (06:04):
Absolutely.
So, um, this is an old friend ofours, the Kikusui Funaguchi.
Uh, this is their Nama GenshuHonjozo.
Now, typically this is a sakethat is Sold as bought and sold
in a can a small like a one cupsized can 180 milliliters And
(06:25):
they decided that that is notenough for some people and so
they need They need a sack andthat's what we have here.
They may specifically they needa smart pouch now Just to give
you the stats on that sake, thatlegendary sake, uh, this is, uh,
this is one of those genshusthat has a capital G, Genshu, it
(06:49):
is a 19 percent alcohol byvolume sake.
Uh, the rice is, uh, it's, it isnot specified, but it is a
Niigata Prefecture rice becauseKikusui Shuzo is of course in
Niigata.
Um, that rice is milled down to70 percent of its original size,
and the sake meter value is plus10.
(07:11):
Two.
Um, and I, I just loved tim, howthey, they've jumped straight
from one cup to nearly, verynearly a magnum, like very
nearly an isshobin, like justwent right for it.
Timothy Sullivan (07:26):
You know, the interesting point there, the
thing that connects the can withthis pouch is the fact that this
is a nama, right?
Kikusui says that this sake isthe first commercially available
nama and it was released in1972.
John Puma (07:44):
Wow.
Really?
Timothy Sullivan (07:45):
Yes, that's what they say on their website.
So I think that When we talkabout funky packaging, we have
the classic can, which has beenaround for decades, and then
they've introduced this pouch.
So what's the connection withthe pouch and the can?
And I think the first one is toprotect against the light,
(08:07):
right?
John Puma (08:07):
hmm.
Yeah.
Because both the pouch and thatcan are completely opaque.
Timothy Sullivan (08:13):
Absolutely.
And the writing on the pouchitself has some key selling
points that make it especiallysuited for unpasteurized sake,
according to Kikusui.
The first one is that it easilyfits in the fridge, and I had
mine stored in the fridge veryeasily.
(08:35):
The pouch has three holes.
On the top, which can fit yourfingers.
So you get a grip if you need tolift it.
It's really very handy.
Don't you think?
John Puma (08:44):
I, I do.
I do.
and this is a sake that I'mgoing to, mention here that I
think like it was like during,during like, you know, lockdown
era, we went and did a littlebarbecue.
We, went down by the, down intothe park and ran, grilled some
things out on the, public grillsthere.
And it went really well with thegrilled food with the, you know,
with the, the hot dogs and theburgers and all that.
(09:04):
And this pouch has a nice littleto go aspect to it with the
handles, as you pointed out,it's, it seems to me like great
for a situation like that, havea bunch of friends, have some
cups and then you're, you know,you got your, your pouch of sake
and you're good.
Timothy Sullivan (09:20):
it's so funny.
You should say that because Iactually found a YouTube video,
which we will link in the shownotes.
And I encourage everyone tovisit sakerevolution.
com to watch this one minutevideo.
But there is a Japaneseadvertisement that was released
at the time of this productlaunch of the pouch.
(09:41):
And there are four.
Japanese ladies in a park,sitting at a small table, eating
snacks, and one of them pullsthe pouch out of her purse.
John Puma (09:52):
Wait, this pouch fit in her
Timothy Sullivan (09:54):
Yes!
John Puma (09:55):
That was a hefty, purse, because this, it's still,
as you pointed out, it is still1, 500 milliliters.
This is not a small bag.
Timothy Sullivan (10:02):
it's pretty heavy.
Anyway, she pulls it out, andshe starts dispensing sake, and
they happen to have these Cutcrystal glasses in the park for
their picnic and they'redrinking kikusui from the pouch
and It is absolutely wonderfulSo, please Be sure to visit our
(10:25):
show notes to see the Japanesesmart pouch advertising video.
You don't want to miss it.
It's delightful.
Uh, but I guess the key point isthat it blocks the air and it
blocks the light from spoilingyour nama sake.
And, this type of packagingreally does help prevent.
(10:49):
oxidation from affecting eithera wine or a sake.
John Puma (10:54):
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (10:55):
It kind of uses gravity when you pick it up
and you dispense using thespout, the gravity pulls against
it and it doesn't let any airin.
So the pouch gets thinner andthinner as you use it, you know,
so there's no air going in.
It's a one way spout.
So it's a really super cleverdesign.
John Puma (11:13):
that's really cool.
It's very interestingly, bothreasonably sized and enormous.
Timothy Sullivan (11:20):
Hey, Hey JP, I got a question for you.
When it comes to wine,
John Puma (11:25):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (11:25):
are you a glass bottle with a cork only
person?
Or do you think B.
I.
B.
like bag in box wine can begood?
Is that something you buy foryourself?
Or do you think that is not anelegant way to serve wine?
What do you think?
John Puma (11:45):
Um, well, honestly, I haven't done a whole lot of
boxed wine in my time.
I think I've had it like once ortwice.
Uh, it was a little earlier onin my.
Am I, am I, my drinking career?
I don't know if that's the wordwe're gonna use.
Uh, yeah, it was, I didn't knowa lot about wine when I had it.
I thought it was fine.
(12:05):
I have heard that generallyspeaking, you, you have lower
quality wine in the bag and box,but I don't know if there's any
truth to it, you know, does thatmake sense to you?
Timothy Sullivan (12:13):
It does.
Yeah, I think people havepreconceived notions, but
similar to Breweries releasinghigher end sakes in one cups, I
think that there are somewineries that release high
quality wines in the pouch, inthe bag, in box.
So boxed wine has a little bitof an image problem, just like
(12:36):
cup sake does, don't you think?
John Puma (12:38):
A little bit.
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (12:41):
It makes me question, is it just an image
problem or is there somethingwrong with this technology?
It seems like it's really goodat preserving the contents.
Should be.
And the other thing that theysay on the Kikusui website, the
very end of the video, thatlittle one minute video I was
(13:01):
talking about, they show thewoman folding up the bag and
putting it in the recycling andit's thin as a piece of paper.
So it's like, it goes from beingthis heavy thing to something
you can recycle very easily.
I think that the time has comefor us to crack open
John Puma (13:20):
Is that what you do with this you crack this open
Timothy Sullivan (13:24):
Don't cut across the top, John.
That's not how we get into
John Puma (13:27):
so I don't you don't want me to go get my straw
Timothy Sullivan (13:30):
No.
John Puma (13:33):
Uh, Alright.
alright, I'm gonna, alright, sowhen I'm looking at this, it
looks like that spout you weretalking about earlier.
Uh, it's got a little foil,topper at the bottom, I, I think
just to kind of keep it, keep itclean.
And then,, is a plastic, uh,like a plastic tab that's kind
of built into the, into theplunger.
Timothy Sullivan (13:51):
Yeah, it's like a collar.
It's like a collar that goesaround to keep the, the, um,
lever from moving down.
So I'm going to peel that offright now.
Okay.
I got
John Puma (14:02):
Okay.
I got mine here.
Oh, oh, hey.
All right.
This this was Ooh, okay.
It goes all the way around.
This was very easy to take off
Timothy Sullivan (14:12):
And then there's a little, as you said,
there's a little foil tab rightwhere the, the sake comes out
and that just keeps the mouth ofthe spout clean.
So I peeled that off and
John Puma (14:25):
in theory this thing's ready for business,
right?
Timothy Sullivan (14:27):
all right.
So.
are we ready?
John Puma (14:30):
I think so now before we before we start though.
I need to We need to telleverybody at home that we are we
are drinking this in veryslightly different styles Is he
um, yeah, i've got my stemlesswine glass for this.
And tim is going to be havingthis in a tumbler, uh, you know,
basically a rocks glass with,with some ice.
(14:53):
It is the famous clear TimSullivan ice.
And, on the back of the pouch,they do say in Japanese that
this should be served chilled oron the rocks.
So we're going to do both.
Timothy Sullivan (15:03):
Yes.
So, I have enjoyed KikusuiFunaguchi in the can for years,
and having had it many times, myfavorite way to drink it is on
the side.
a giant clear ice cube and haveit be chilled and diluted just a
bit.
So this is my preferred methodof drinking this particular
(15:25):
sake.
I've never squirted it out of apouch before, but
John Puma (15:30):
I don't think I've ever not had it in the can.
Timothy Sullivan (15:33):
oh, so you drink it out of the
John Puma (15:35):
I drink it out of the can.
Timothy Sullivan (15:36):
That's, that's what you should do, I think.
John Puma (15:39):
Yeah, yeah I have my cup in hand, the pouch.
I've moved the pouch to the edgeof my desk.
So the spout is hanging over theside and then I'm going to grab
my cup.
I'm going to put it underneathand I'm going to hit the button.
Oh Yeah, Tim.
(15:59):
Um, well, um, it flies out ofthere pretty fast.
So it's, it's less of a gentlepour and more of like a fire
hydrant sort of experience.
Timothy Sullivan (16:11):
How smart do you have to be to operate the
smart couch?
John Puma (16:14):
Not, not very, you just have to be prepared for the
volume that's going to come outof it.
Remember gravity you mentionedis what's powering this and
gravity is a powerful beast.
Timothy Sullivan (16:24):
All right.
John Puma (16:25):
Yeah.
Yeah, we, we generally, whenwe're doing this, we pour like a
relatively small amount into theglass.
And this thing was like, and Iwas like, whoa,
Timothy Sullivan (16:33):
Okay.
I'm going to pour mine and tryto get it to the microphone.
Here we go.
John Puma (16:37):
Alrighty.
I have a feeling you didn'tplunge that one all the way
down.
Like I did.
You learn from my mistakes.
Timothy Sullivan (16:50):
Yeah.
I, uh, I was a little slower onthe
John Puma (16:53):
Yeah.
Well, I just went, I thought itwas a binary switch.
So I, and that sake was likefreedom.
Timothy Sullivan (17:01):
You hear that, John?
John Puma (17:02):
Yeah.
That's the, that's the, is thatthe, the trademark Tim Sullivan
Timothy Sullivan (17:05):
that is the trademark Tim Sullivan crystal
clear ice cube.
All right.
Well, I smell Funaguchi.
John Puma (17:12):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (17:14):
Should we give it a taste?
John Puma (17:15):
Um, well, you want to talk a little bit about what we
smell?
Timothy Sullivan (17:17):
Oh yeah.
John Puma (17:18):
So Yeah, it's, this is a sake we've had many times
before and it does capture the,the, experience of, taking in
the Funaguchi.
It's, um, it is very, like, onmy, I don't know about on your
side, but on my nose, it's, it'svery, um, uh, boozy.
Like I'm getting a lot of that,like, that little tingle in
your, in your nostrils when youbring it in, like, you can tell
(17:39):
that it's a high, high alcoholbeverage.
Timothy Sullivan (17:42):
Yeah.
It's worth noting that this is.
As you said earlier, it's 19percent alcohol, but it's also
arutenshu or alcohol added sake.
So this is not a Junmai style.
This is a Honjozo style.
That means distilled alcohol hasbeen added to this.
And I think that that little bitof, um, ethanol does come
(18:04):
through on the aroma.
But that's part of the charm ofthis sake.
boozy strong sake.
And that's one of the reasons Ihave it on the rocks.
I also smell a little bit oflike a cotton candy smell.
There's some, uh, sweetnessthere.
John Puma (18:20):
There is a, yeah, there is a bit, definitely a
little bit of a sweetness aswell.
from the distance, like when Ibring it like kind of close,
it's like, Oh yeah, the firstthing I got was that ethanol.
And then you get closer andyou're like, Oh, and, and some,
and some sweetness to it.
All right.
So I think we're ready to, tohave a sip
Timothy Sullivan (18:35):
Okay.
I'm going to take a sip.
My, my glass is very clanky withthe ice cube in it.
So I'm just going to go for it.
John Puma (18:40):
Go for it.
yeah.
This is such a fun sake.
Oh,
Timothy Sullivan (18:52):
I think primarily it comes across as
rich and strong.
It's very bold.
John Puma (18:58):
yes.
Oh, absolutely.
Now you've got the ice in there.
We've had it in there for alittle bit.
Have you find that it's kind oftaming it a little bit for you?
Timothy Sullivan (19:07):
Not yet.
John Puma (19:08):
Not yet.
It needs a minute.
Timothy Sullivan (19:11):
Needs a minute.
I really like the ice cube inthere.
It keeps it nice and chilled andcrisp, and it also dilutes it a
little bit.
It is a little clanky in myrocks glass, but I really enjoy
it that way.
John Puma (19:28):
I do think this is a sake that, in addition to the
idea that the ice is going to,to mellow it out a little bit.
I'm also of the opinion thathaving the sake particularly
cold or a little bit warm is funand it,, it lends itself to, to
playing with temperature alittle bit.
Um, I think that it's right nowI have it kind of like, you
(19:48):
know, we've been recording andsitting on my desk.
It's, it's cold, but it is not.
Ice cold.
And I think that this sake isgreat when it's ice cold.
So I'm a little jealous that youhave an ice cube in yours.
Timothy Sullivan (20:00):
Yeah, I agree.
I think when a sake that hashigher alcohol, when it's, it's
like, you know, when you reallychill a martini, And it brings
out the crispness of it.
If a martini gets closer to roomtemperature, the booze really
comes forward.
And it's not as enjoyable.
I think there's a similar,concept at play here when it's
(20:22):
nice and icy cold.
It just makes it crisper on thepalate.
Um, but it is one of thestrongest sake's out there.
It really does pack a punch,right?
John Puma (20:33):
there like a legal limit to the alcoholic of being
sake?
Timothy Sullivan (20:36):
There is.
Yes.
it?
is the, the law states in Japan,it has to be.
Below 22%, so that means 21.999,
John Puma (20:49):
So we've got some some room.
Timothy Sullivan (20:51):
we have some wiggle room.
Yes.
John Puma (20:53):
They can, they can increase this all they want.
That's great.
Yeah, this is, this is such aclassic and I, uh, as I was
saying earlier, like, I love theidea that you're just grabbing
one of these going to like acookout or something.
this goes really well with your4th of July barbecue.
Uh, array, I think.
(21:14):
I think it goes fabulously withthings like that.
With your, uh, with your hotdogs, your burgers, your, uh,
whatever else you're going tohave over there.
Mac and cheese.
They're fine.
I, I don't even eat cheese.
That sounds, that sounds likeit'd work.
Timothy Sullivan (21:29):
Well, I, I really agree with you a hundred
percent.
What makes this approachable forthat type of food is the weight,
the body.
And the richness of this sake.
It's juicy, it's strong, and ifyou had something like, you
know, a burger dripping withbarbecue sauce or something like
(21:51):
that, it is amazing.
Just so good.
It would be so good.
John Puma (21:56):
Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan (21:57):
or
John Puma (21:58):
you can do some
Timothy Sullivan (21:59):
hot dogs.
Hmm.
John Puma (22:02):
Yeah, definitely.
No, I won't.
No, I want ribs, Tim.
What have we done?
Timothy Sullivan (22:06):
Do you have a, do you have a grill set up where
you live?
John Puma (22:09):
No, I live in an apartment.
Timothy Sullivan (22:11):
Yeah.
I can't either.
I thought maybe sometimesapartment buildings have a
shared grill, but we don't, wedon't have that in our
apartment.
John Puma (22:17):
me either.
Um, and like some of the unitsin my building have, um,
terraces, but there are strict,no grilling on the terraces
rules.
I think they're worried aboutburning down the building or
something like
Timothy Sullivan (22:30):
that's prudent.
John Puma (22:32):
You know, what are you going to do?
but I do have a park nearby thatdoes have, um, public grills.
So all you have to do is bring,uh, technically you're just
bringing like your briquettesand whatnot.
Timothy Sullivan (22:44):
Well, I'll just wait for my invitation.
John Puma (22:47):
Well, I haven't done this in several years, but maybe
we need to bring it back Nowthat the Funaguchi pouch exists
Timothy Sullivan (22:53):
exactly, if you, if you provide the burgers
and the hot dogs, I'll bring thepouch.
John Puma (22:58):
Uh huh, I think I think you might have already
purchased the pouch wait aminute
Timothy Sullivan (23:03):
Now, John, what do you think about the size
of this pouch?
It is In addition to the pouchitself being funky, the size is
also funky.
Like what is up with 1500milliliters?
What do you, what do you think?
John Puma (23:19):
Um To me, when I look at this thing, it looks like
they wanted to get like asizable amount of sake because
1500 milliliters ain't messingaround.
Um, And they wanted somethingthat would be relatively
portable.
The video showed this womanpulling it out of her purse.
So it's got to be target, targetsize, smaller than a purse,
(23:41):
right?
Or a smaller than that woman'spurse, at least.
And that's just, you know, Ithink that works.
I think that, uh, I think that'swhat they were aiming for.
They wanted to get somethingthat would be like as much sake
as makes sense.
And then something that's stillportable.
I think if you go bigger thanthis, it gets a little heavy.
It gets a little unwieldy.
Maybe, you know, it's also maybethe integrity of the pouch.
(24:04):
Becomes questionable.
It says it's not in a box.
You've got to take into
Timothy Sullivan (24:09):
Yeah, I mean, the standard bottle size in
Japan is 720 ml.
And if you had two bottles, thatwould be 1440, but they're
giving us 1500.
So it's a little bit strangethat it's, it's, Just above what
(24:29):
two bottles would be.
And the isshobin, the 1.
8 liter is 2.
5 bottles.
So yeah, it's, it probably hasto do with the packaging
manufacturer.
Don't you think?
Like there's probably set sizesfor these things.
And if you buy it from a, uh,supplier of liquid packaging,
(24:52):
there's probably a limit to whatthey make.
And it's not.
geared necessarily towards theweird sake measurements that
they have.
John Puma (25:00):
I think that, yeah, they probably did get, you know,
your, I don't think they hadthese custom made.
I think that somebody probablywas producing something like
this and they were like, Hey, Iwant to get in on that.
Timothy Sullivan (25:10):
Yeah,
John Puma (25:10):
size you got?
Timothy Sullivan (25:11):
And I just noticed that there is a giant
picture of the can on the pouch.
John Puma (25:16):
Yes.
It's not just, it's not just thelogo.
They're like, no, it's this, itis this, this can that you know,
Timothy Sullivan (25:23):
Yeah, well, I have to say, I really like this.
Like the, the um, the juice boxwith the straw was not the best
way for me to drink sake out ofa little, a little kindergarten
straw like that.
But this, like lift up the pouchand push the button.
(25:44):
It's pretty nice.
John Puma (25:48):
It's a party and a bag.
Timothy Sullivan (25:51):
Yeah.
John Puma (25:53):
I gotcha.
going to say it.
Um, yeah, this is great.
And I, like I said, this isperfect to like go And, and
again, this food, this rather,and again, this sake
specifically, is, is, great for,you know, your, your 4th of July
barbecue.
Timothy Sullivan (26:08):
Yeah.
It's very.
entertaining and shareable sake,don't you think?
It's like not the fanciest ormost nuanced sake on the market,
but it's still really enjoyableand great for sharing.
John Puma (26:23):
I don't think I've encountered people who, um, who
didn't enjoy Funaguchi the firsttime they had it.
And if I did, I wouldn't trustthose people.
Timothy Sullivan (26:33):
The only thing I have to say is that I always
warn people that it packs apunch.
So if people are Sipping on thislike regular sake and not using
ice or, you know, not dilutingit with anything.
I always say, you know, just beaware this packs a punch.
I like how it sits on thecounter like a Capri Sun pouch.
(26:56):
Like you can stand it up and,you know, It's really, that's
super convenient.
And if you drop it, you don'thave to worry about it smashing
on the floor.
Like, I love that too.
I, for my job, I transport a lotof bottles and I put them in my
suitcase.
I wrap them in bubble wrap andyou have to be very careful
transporting glass.
(27:18):
And this is like, you know, youcan just throw this, throw this
in your suitcase and you don'thave to worry about it breaking,
which is great.
John Puma (27:29):
And if I'm not mistaken, like, you know, this
bag, I'm, I'm not going topretend to know exactly what
this bag weighs, but I'm goingto bet you that it weighs less
than glass.
So the weight of this bag, whichagain, we mentioned this at the
front, isn't, This is not light.
Um, it is
Timothy Sullivan (27:47):
Yeah.
John Puma (27:48):
all sake.
Timothy Sullivan (27:49):
Yeah,
John Puma (27:49):
And you know and some and some plastic that is it, you
know It is really your theweight is all the importance of
so when it's empty when it'sdone You can just fold it up and
if you're in Japan, apparentlyyou can put it in recycling
Timothy Sullivan (28:00):
And as you, as you pour from the pouch, from
the spout, uh, it's a one wayvalve, as we mentioned, so that
no air goes in, the pouchcollapses thinner and thinner as
you use it, and I really likethat too.
It does protect against oxygen,and uh, And I like just giving,
(28:22):
like, if you want a little topoff, you can just squeeze the
tab and there you go.
Love it.
John Puma (28:31):
Need a little extra here we go And you know and and
also you can just like throwthis whole bag onto some ice in
the in the cooler And boom, youknow, every time you can pull it
out, pour some out, Not bad,right?
Timothy Sullivan (28:44):
All right.
John, we've, we've exploredanother dimension of funky
packaging.
What do you, I like this newseries.
What do you think?
John Puma (28:52):
I like this in series too.
I, I'm wondering how long you'regonna be able to keep this up,
Tim.
no, it's, it's been, it, it isfun.
I had a good time with the, the,the juice box.
Uh, but this is a veryenormously practical
Timothy Sullivan (29:07):
Right.
John Puma (29:08):
an improvement.
I don't know.
I love it.
This is great.
Mm-Hmm.
Mm-Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (29:12):
love it too.
And I think, uh, if, if otherEven more premium sakes came in
this packaging.
Like I would definitely beinterested, like as a consumer,
I would vote for this.
I think this is convenient, easyto use, protects the sake, It's,
it's just, there's a lot ofpractical advantages to this, I
(29:34):
think.
John Puma (29:35):
There, there are, there are.
Um, you know, I would love tosee more, um, to see more stuff
like this go on.
Timothy Sullivan (29:42):
Yeah.
So we'll.
We'll see in the next few yearsif this is the future of sake as
Kikusui thinks it will be.
But I do hope to see it with afew other, with a few other
brands.
Let's see how it goes.
John Puma (29:55):
Yeah, that'd be a lot of fun.
I'm excited.
Timothy Sullivan (29:57):
All right.
Well, John, so great to tastewith you and we'll have to see
where our funky packaging takesus next.
Um, thank you so for, uh, allthe great, uh, sake chit chat
today.
And I also want to send out aspecial thank you to all of our
listeners.
Thanks again for tuning intoday.
A special hi, hello, and thankyou to our patrons as well.
(30:21):
We are a listener supportedshow.
And if you would like to joinour community on Patreon, please
visit patreon.com/sakerevolutionto learn more.
We hope to see you there.
John Puma (30:33):
And as a quick little reminder, all of our episodes
have a corresponding page on theSake Revolution website at
sakerevolution.
com.
We've got show notes.
This one's got a video ofapparently a bunch of ladies
having a really good time in apark and then recycling very
responsibly.
We always have pictures of thebottles.
(30:53):
We always have details on thesake we drank.
Uh, and we always have atranscript, which is actually
pretty cool.
and we also have a link to ourstore there where we've got t
shirts, we've got stickers, um,and we keep saying that one day
there's going to be more.
And I mean it, I mean it thistime, especially, having said
that.
How, how are we going to takethis out, Tim?
I don't want you to raise yourpouch.
(31:14):
What do you want to do?
Yeah.
All right.
That's how we're going to do it.
raise your pouch.
Remember to keep drinking sake,potentially out of a pouch
Kampai.
Timothy Sullivan (31:27):
Kanpai!
Hello everybody.
And welcome to sake revolution.
This is America's first sakepodcast and When you know it,
I'm your host, John Puma fromthe Sake Notes.
Also from the Internet SakeDiscord and Reddit's r slash
sake community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:35):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a sake samurai.
I'm a sake educator, as well asthe founder of the Urban Sake
website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, and doingour best to make it fun and easy
to understand.
Hey, John.
John Puma (00:54):
Hey, Tim, what are you hear?
Timothy Sullivan (00:57):
Well, you know, I really liked our last
episode focusing on the funk,funky packaging.
Do you remember that?
Yes.
John Puma (01:08):
in my mind.
I distinctly remember the, theweirdly, um, uh, perhaps
inappropriate juice box and thesake that honestly, was better
than it had any right to becoming out of a juice box or a
straw.
Like I was like very takenaback.
I was like, wait a minute.
This is actually a legitimate,this is pretty good.
(01:29):
yeah.
So what's, what's today?
Capri Sun?
Timothy Sullivan (01:33):
I wish.
No, today is another funkypackaging.
John Puma (01:39):
Uh huh.
Timothy Sullivan (01:40):
got mini obsessed.
John Puma (01:43):
Mini
Timothy Sullivan (01:43):
I found something pretty darn funky.
Which I dropped off to you.
And today, we're going toexplore another round of Funky
packaging for sake.
John Puma (01:56):
packaging.
Timothy Sullivan (01:58):
I went to the manufacturer's website for this
funky packaging and they sayright on their webpage that this
is the future of sake.
John Puma (02:07):
The future of sake.
Timothy Sullivan (02:09):
Yes,
John Puma (02:10):
All right.
That's a pretty, um, that's alofty statement, I think.
Right.
Timothy Sullivan (02:15):
pretty bold statement, but I am excited to
get started.
John Puma (02:19):
Hmm.
Yeah.
This is a sake that I'm prettysure we have featured before,
just never in this packaging,right?
Timothy Sullivan (02:29):
Yes,
John Puma (02:30):
yeah, so, so what we've got, what is, what is on
my desk right now, what Timothyhas given me.
is actually not too far off fromthe Capri Sun joke I made
earlier.
So, um, you remember last week,we talked a little bit about, we
reminisced a little bit aboutCapri Sun, the, uh, the pouch,
what, you had a straw, youstabbed through the straw, and
(02:52):
then, and then you, you drinkyour, your beverage while we
were having our juice box.
This week, Tim went and found Abag, a bag that looks a little,
I'm not going to say, I'm notgoing to lie.
It looks a little, it makes methink of Capri Sun, just a much,
much larger one.
And in this case, we're notusing a straw to stab through
it.
Although I, if I wereparticularly thirsty, I guess I
(03:15):
could, but this is a, This is a1500 milliliter bag of sake.
Timothy Sullivan (03:24):
Yes,
John Puma (03:25):
And if it wasn't sitting on my desk, I wouldn't
believe it.
Timothy Sullivan (03:30):
yes, this is, called a smart pouch.
John Puma (03:33):
Smart pouch.
Timothy Sullivan (03:35):
Yes, it is a pouch.
1500 milliliter pouch of sake,as you said, almost, almost up
to a full isho bin size.
And it weighs about five pounds.
I could do some curls with this.
John Puma (03:52):
Yeah, I guess I could.
Timothy Sullivan (03:53):
yeah, to give our listeners An image of what
we're looking at here, it isbasically a freestanding plastic
pouch sealed at the top, and ithas a spout coming off of it.
Very much like a bag in boxwine, right?
Like the boxed wine with thespout.
We've all seen that.
(04:14):
And if you look inside the boxedwine, there's like a plastic
bladder in there, right?
With a spout coming off of it.
Yes,
John Puma (04:22):
um, and it looks to me like this, the smart pouch is
that, without the box, and uh,with sake instead of wine.
Timothy Sullivan (04:33):
Yeah, so the Type of packaging that this is,
I think, inspired by is what isknown as B.
I.
B.
Or, yeah, there's a Wikipediapage dedicated to B.
I.
B., which is bag in box alcohol,bag in box alcohol.
And it's similar to the juicebox design that we had last
(04:57):
week, this is a similarpolyethylene material and it's
food safe and it has a spoutcoming out and it has a unique
fold on the bottom.
So it could kind of standupright, right?
It can like stand on its own.
John Puma (05:16):
Which I believe the Capri Sun had that, that, that
general shape.
Timothy Sullivan (05:21):
Yes,
John Puma (05:22):
You could stand it up.
Cause you had to stand it up.
Cause you had, you know, he waslike, here, we're going to punch
the hole in it with the straw.
And then it sits on your, onyour table next to your lunch.
I don't,
Timothy Sullivan (05:31):
true.
If this was If this was a CapriSun, that, the basic shape is
similar.
You're absolutely right.
It had like that fold on thebottom so it could stand up.
John Puma (05:43):
It's just a really
Timothy Sullivan (05:45):
really big
John Puma (05:46):
significantly large.
I don't know how manymilliliters were in a Capri Sun,
but I'm going to guess it wasn't1, 500.
Timothy Sullivan (05:54):
Well, we should also let the cat out of
the bag about which producer andwhich sake this is.
So, do you want to give us thesake name and the stats?
John Puma (06:04):
Absolutely.
So, um, this is an old friend ofours, the Kikusui Funaguchi.
Uh, this is their Nama GenshuHonjozo.
Now, typically this is a sakethat is Sold as bought and sold
in a can a small like a one cupsized can 180 milliliters And
(06:25):
they decided that that is notenough for some people and so
they need They need a sack andthat's what we have here.
They may specifically they needa smart pouch now Just to give
you the stats on that sake, thatlegendary sake, uh, this is, uh,
this is one of those genshusthat has a capital G, Genshu, it
(06:49):
is a 19 percent alcohol byvolume sake.
Uh, the rice is, uh, it's, it isnot specified, but it is a
Niigata Prefecture rice becauseKikusui Shuzo is of course in
Niigata.
Um, that rice is milled down to70 percent of its original size,
and the sake meter value is plus10.
(07:11):
Two.
Um, and I, I just loved tim, howthey, they've jumped straight
from one cup to nearly, verynearly a magnum, like very
nearly an isshobin, like justwent right for it.
Timothy Sullivan (07:26):
You know, the interesting point there, the
thing that connects the can withthis pouch is the fact that this
is a nama, right?
Kikusui says that this sake isthe first commercially available
nama and it was released in1972.
John Puma (07:44):
Wow.
Really?
Timothy Sullivan (07:45):
Yes, that's what they say on their website.
So I think that When we talkabout funky packaging, we have
the classic can, which has beenaround for decades, and then
they've introduced this pouch.
So what's the connection withthe pouch and the can?
And I think the first one is toprotect against the light,
(08:07):
right?
John Puma (08:07):
hmm.
Yeah.
Because both the pouch and thatcan are completely opaque.
Timothy Sullivan (08:13):
Absolutely.
And the writing on the pouchitself has some key selling
points that make it especiallysuited for unpasteurized sake,
according to Kikusui.
The first one is that it easilyfits in the fridge, and I had
mine stored in the fridge veryeasily.
(08:35):
The pouch has three holes.
On the top, which can fit yourfingers.
So you get a grip if you need tolift it.
It's really very handy.
Don't you think?
John Puma (08:44):
I, I do.
I do.
and this is a sake that I'mgoing to, mention here that I
think like it was like during,during like, you know, lockdown
era, we went and did a littlebarbecue.
We, went down by the, down intothe park and ran, grilled some
things out on the, public grillsthere.
And it went really well with thegrilled food with the, you know,
with the, the hot dogs and theburgers and all that.
(09:04):
And this pouch has a nice littleto go aspect to it with the
handles, as you pointed out,it's, it seems to me like great
for a situation like that, havea bunch of friends, have some
cups and then you're, you know,you got your, your pouch of sake
and you're good.
Timothy Sullivan (09:20):
it's so funny.
You should say that because Iactually found a YouTube video,
which we will link in the shownotes.
And I encourage everyone tovisit sakerevolution.
com to watch this one minutevideo.
But there is a Japaneseadvertisement that was released
at the time of this productlaunch of the pouch.
(09:41):
And there are four.
Japanese ladies in a park,sitting at a small table, eating
snacks, and one of them pullsthe pouch out of her purse.
John Puma (09:52):
Wait, this pouch fit in her
Timothy Sullivan (09:54):
Yes!
John Puma (09:55):
That was a hefty, purse, because this, it's still,
as you pointed out, it is still1, 500 milliliters.
This is not a small bag.
Timothy Sullivan (10:02):
it's pretty heavy.
Anyway, she pulls it out, andshe starts dispensing sake, and
they happen to have these Cutcrystal glasses in the park for
their picnic and they'redrinking kikusui from the pouch
and It is absolutely wonderfulSo, please Be sure to visit our
(10:25):
show notes to see the Japanesesmart pouch advertising video.
You don't want to miss it.
It's delightful.
Uh, but I guess the key point isthat it blocks the air and it
blocks the light from spoilingyour nama sake.
And, this type of packagingreally does help prevent.
(10:49):
oxidation from affecting eithera wine or a sake.
John Puma (10:54):
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (10:55):
It kind of uses gravity when you pick it up
and you dispense using thespout, the gravity pulls against
it and it doesn't let any airin.
So the pouch gets thinner andthinner as you use it, you know,
so there's no air going in.
It's a one way spout.
So it's a really super cleverdesign.
John Puma (11:13):
that's really cool.
It's very interestingly, bothreasonably sized and enormous.
Timothy Sullivan (11:20):
Hey, Hey JP, I got a question for you.
When it comes to wine,
John Puma (11:25):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (11:25):
are you a glass bottle with a cork only
person?
Or do you think B.
I.
B.
like bag in box wine can begood?
Is that something you buy foryourself?
Or do you think that is not anelegant way to serve wine?
What do you think?
John Puma (11:45):
Um, well, honestly, I haven't done a whole lot of
boxed wine in my time.
I think I've had it like once ortwice.
Uh, it was a little earlier onin my.
Am I, am I, my drinking career?
I don't know if that's the wordwe're gonna use.
Uh, yeah, it was, I didn't knowa lot about wine when I had it.
I thought it was fine.
(12:05):
I have heard that generallyspeaking, you, you have lower
quality wine in the bag and box,but I don't know if there's any
truth to it, you know, does thatmake sense to you?
Timothy Sullivan (12:13):
It does.
Yeah, I think people havepreconceived notions, but
similar to Breweries releasinghigher end sakes in one cups, I
think that there are somewineries that release high
quality wines in the pouch, inthe bag, in box.
So boxed wine has a little bitof an image problem, just like
(12:36):
cup sake does, don't you think?
John Puma (12:38):
A little bit.
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (12:41):
It makes me question, is it just an image
problem or is there somethingwrong with this technology?
It seems like it's really goodat preserving the contents.
Should be.
And the other thing that theysay on the Kikusui website, the
very end of the video, thatlittle one minute video I was
(13:01):
talking about, they show thewoman folding up the bag and
putting it in the recycling andit's thin as a piece of paper.
So it's like, it goes from beingthis heavy thing to something
you can recycle very easily.
I think that the time has comefor us to crack open
John Puma (13:20):
Is that what you do with this you crack this open
Timothy Sullivan (13:24):
Don't cut across the top, John.
That's not how we get into
John Puma (13:27):
so I don't you don't want me to go get my straw
Timothy Sullivan (13:30):
No.
John Puma (13:33):
Uh, Alright.
alright, I'm gonna, alright, sowhen I'm looking at this, it
looks like that spout you weretalking about earlier.
Uh, it's got a little foil,topper at the bottom, I, I think
just to kind of keep it, keep itclean.
And then,, is a plastic, uh,like a plastic tab that's kind
of built into the, into theplunger.
Timothy Sullivan (13:51):
Yeah, it's like a collar.
It's like a collar that goesaround to keep the, the, um,
lever from moving down.
So I'm going to peel that offright now.
Okay.
I got
John Puma (14:02):
Okay.
I got mine here.
Oh, oh, hey.
All right.
This this was Ooh, okay.
It goes all the way around.
This was very easy to take off
Timothy Sullivan (14:12):
And then there's a little, as you said,
there's a little foil tab rightwhere the, the sake comes out
and that just keeps the mouth ofthe spout clean.
So I peeled that off and
John Puma (14:25):
in theory this thing's ready for business,
right?
Timothy Sullivan (14:27):
all right.
So.
are we ready?
John Puma (14:30):
I think so now before we before we start though.
I need to We need to telleverybody at home that we are we
are drinking this in veryslightly different styles Is he
um, yeah, i've got my stemlesswine glass for this.
And tim is going to be havingthis in a tumbler, uh, you know,
basically a rocks glass with,with some ice.
(14:53):
It is the famous clear TimSullivan ice.
And, on the back of the pouch,they do say in Japanese that
this should be served chilled oron the rocks.
So we're going to do both.
Timothy Sullivan (15:03):
Yes.
So, I have enjoyed KikusuiFunaguchi in the can for years,
and having had it many times, myfavorite way to drink it is on
the side.
a giant clear ice cube and haveit be chilled and diluted just a
bit.
So this is my preferred methodof drinking this particular
(15:25):
sake.
I've never squirted it out of apouch before, but
John Puma (15:30):
I don't think I've ever not had it in the can.
Timothy Sullivan (15:33):
oh, so you drink it out of the
John Puma (15:35):
I drink it out of the can.
Timothy Sullivan (15:36):
That's, that's what you should do, I think.
John Puma (15:39):
Yeah, yeah I have my cup in hand, the pouch.
I've moved the pouch to the edgeof my desk.
So the spout is hanging over theside and then I'm going to grab
my cup.
I'm going to put it underneathand I'm going to hit the button.
Oh Yeah, Tim.
(15:59):
Um, well, um, it flies out ofthere pretty fast.
So it's, it's less of a gentlepour and more of like a fire
hydrant sort of experience.
Timothy Sullivan (16:11):
How smart do you have to be to operate the
smart couch?
John Puma (16:14):
Not, not very, you just have to be prepared for the
volume that's going to come outof it.
Remember gravity you mentionedis what's powering this and
gravity is a powerful beast.
Timothy Sullivan (16:24):
All right.
John Puma (16:25):
Yeah.
Yeah, we, we generally, whenwe're doing this, we pour like a
relatively small amount into theglass.
And this thing was like, and Iwas like, whoa,
Timothy Sullivan (16:33):
Okay.
I'm going to pour mine and tryto get it to the microphone.
Here we go.
John Puma (16:37):
Alrighty.
I have a feeling you didn'tplunge that one all the way
down.
Like I did.
You learn from my mistakes.
Timothy Sullivan (16:50):
Yeah.
I, uh, I was a little slower onthe
John Puma (16:53):
Yeah.
Well, I just went, I thought itwas a binary switch.
So I, and that sake was likefreedom.
Timothy Sullivan (17:01):
You hear that, John?
John Puma (17:02):
Yeah.
That's the, that's the, is thatthe, the trademark Tim Sullivan
Timothy Sullivan (17:05):
that is the trademark Tim Sullivan crystal
clear ice cube.
All right.
Well, I smell Funaguchi.
John Puma (17:12):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (17:14):
Should we give it a taste?
John Puma (17:15):
Um, well, you want to talk a little bit about what we
smell?
Timothy Sullivan (17:17):
Oh yeah.
John Puma (17:18):
So Yeah, it's, this is a sake we've had many times
before and it does capture the,the, experience of, taking in
the Funaguchi.
It's, um, it is very, like, onmy, I don't know about on your
side, but on my nose, it's, it'svery, um, uh, boozy.
Like I'm getting a lot of that,like, that little tingle in
your, in your nostrils when youbring it in, like, you can tell
(17:39):
that it's a high, high alcoholbeverage.
Timothy Sullivan (17:42):
Yeah.
It's worth noting that this is.
As you said earlier, it's 19percent alcohol, but it's also
arutenshu or alcohol added sake.
So this is not a Junmai style.
This is a Honjozo style.
That means distilled alcohol hasbeen added to this.
And I think that that little bitof, um, ethanol does come
(18:04):
through on the aroma.
But that's part of the charm ofthis sake.
boozy strong sake.
And that's one of the reasons Ihave it on the rocks.
I also smell a little bit oflike a cotton candy smell.
There's some, uh, sweetnessthere.
John Puma (18:20):
There is a, yeah, there is a bit, definitely a
little bit of a sweetness aswell.
from the distance, like when Ibring it like kind of close,
it's like, Oh yeah, the firstthing I got was that ethanol.
And then you get closer andyou're like, Oh, and, and some,
and some sweetness to it.
All right.
So I think we're ready to, tohave a sip
Timothy Sullivan (18:35):
Okay.
I'm going to take a sip.
My, my glass is very clanky withthe ice cube in it.
So I'm just going to go for it.
John Puma (18:40):
Go for it.
yeah.
This is such a fun sake.
Oh,
Timothy Sullivan (18:52):
I think primarily it comes across as
rich and strong.
It's very bold.
John Puma (18:58):
yes.
Oh, absolutely.
Now you've got the ice in there.
We've had it in there for alittle bit.
Have you find that it's kind oftaming it a little bit for you?
Timothy Sullivan (19:07):
Not yet.
John Puma (19:08):
Not yet.
It needs a minute.
Timothy Sullivan (19:11):
Needs a minute.
I really like the ice cube inthere.
It keeps it nice and chilled andcrisp, and it also dilutes it a
little bit.
It is a little clanky in myrocks glass, but I really enjoy
it that way.
John Puma (19:28):
I do think this is a sake that, in addition to the
idea that the ice is going to,to mellow it out a little bit.
I'm also of the opinion thathaving the sake particularly
cold or a little bit warm is funand it,, it lends itself to, to
playing with temperature alittle bit.
Um, I think that it's right nowI have it kind of like, you
(19:48):
know, we've been recording andsitting on my desk.
It's, it's cold, but it is not.
Ice cold.
And I think that this sake isgreat when it's ice cold.
So I'm a little jealous that youhave an ice cube in yours.
Timothy Sullivan (20:00):
Yeah, I agree.
I think when a sake that hashigher alcohol, when it's, it's
like, you know, when you reallychill a martini, And it brings
out the crispness of it.
If a martini gets closer to roomtemperature, the booze really
comes forward.
And it's not as enjoyable.
I think there's a similar,concept at play here when it's
(20:22):
nice and icy cold.
It just makes it crisper on thepalate.
Um, but it is one of thestrongest sake's out there.
It really does pack a punch,right?
John Puma (20:33):
there like a legal limit to the alcoholic of being
sake?
Timothy Sullivan (20:36):
There is.
Yes.
it?
is the, the law states in Japan,it has to be.
Below 22%, so that means 21.999,
John Puma (20:49):
So we've got some some room.
Timothy Sullivan (20:51):
we have some wiggle room.
Yes.
John Puma (20:53):
They can, they can increase this all they want.
That's great.
Yeah, this is, this is such aclassic and I, uh, as I was
saying earlier, like, I love theidea that you're just grabbing
one of these going to like acookout or something.
this goes really well with your4th of July barbecue.
Uh, array, I think.
(21:14):
I think it goes fabulously withthings like that.
With your, uh, with your hotdogs, your burgers, your, uh,
whatever else you're going tohave over there.
Mac and cheese.
They're fine.
I, I don't even eat cheese.
That sounds, that sounds likeit'd work.
Timothy Sullivan (21:29):
Well, I, I really agree with you a hundred
percent.
What makes this approachable forthat type of food is the weight,
the body.
And the richness of this sake.
It's juicy, it's strong, and ifyou had something like, you
know, a burger dripping withbarbecue sauce or something like
(21:51):
that, it is amazing.
Just so good.
It would be so good.
John Puma (21:56):
Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan (21:57):
or
John Puma (21:58):
you can do some
Timothy Sullivan (21:59):
hot dogs.
Hmm.
John Puma (22:02):
Yeah, definitely.
No, I won't.
No, I want ribs, Tim.
What have we done?
Timothy Sullivan (22:06):
Do you have a, do you have a grill set up where
you live?
John Puma (22:09):
No, I live in an apartment.
Timothy Sullivan (22:11):
Yeah.
I can't either.
I thought maybe sometimesapartment buildings have a
shared grill, but we don't, wedon't have that in our
apartment.
John Puma (22:17):
me either.
Um, and like some of the unitsin my building have, um,
terraces, but there are strict,no grilling on the terraces
rules.
I think they're worried aboutburning down the building or
something like
Timothy Sullivan (22:30):
that's prudent.
John Puma (22:32):
You know, what are you going to do?
but I do have a park nearby thatdoes have, um, public grills.
So all you have to do is bring,uh, technically you're just
bringing like your briquettesand whatnot.
Timothy Sullivan (22:44):
Well, I'll just wait for my invitation.
John Puma (22:47):
Well, I haven't done this in several years, but maybe
we need to bring it back Nowthat the Funaguchi pouch exists
Timothy Sullivan (22:53):
exactly, if you, if you provide the burgers
and the hot dogs, I'll bring thepouch.
John Puma (22:58):
Uh huh, I think I think you might have already
purchased the pouch wait aminute
Timothy Sullivan (23:03):
Now, John, what do you think about the size
of this pouch?
It is In addition to the pouchitself being funky, the size is
also funky.
Like what is up with 1500milliliters?
What do you, what do you think?
John Puma (23:19):
Um To me, when I look at this thing, it looks like
they wanted to get like asizable amount of sake because
1500 milliliters ain't messingaround.
Um, And they wanted somethingthat would be relatively
portable.
The video showed this womanpulling it out of her purse.
So it's got to be target, targetsize, smaller than a purse,
(23:41):
right?
Or a smaller than that woman'spurse, at least.
And that's just, you know, Ithink that works.
I think that, uh, I think that'swhat they were aiming for.
They wanted to get somethingthat would be like as much sake
as makes sense.
And then something that's stillportable.
I think if you go bigger thanthis, it gets a little heavy.
It gets a little unwieldy.
Maybe, you know, it's also maybethe integrity of the pouch.
(24:04):
Becomes questionable.
It says it's not in a box.
You've got to take into
Timothy Sullivan (24:09):
Yeah, I mean, the standard bottle size in
Japan is 720 ml.
And if you had two bottles, thatwould be 1440, but they're
giving us 1500.
So it's a little bit strangethat it's, it's, Just above what
(24:29):
two bottles would be.
And the isshobin, the 1.
8 liter is 2.
5 bottles.
So yeah, it's, it probably hasto do with the packaging
manufacturer.
Don't you think?
Like there's probably set sizesfor these things.
And if you buy it from a, uh,supplier of liquid packaging,
(24:52):
there's probably a limit to whatthey make.
And it's not.
geared necessarily towards theweird sake measurements that
they have.
John Puma (25:00):
I think that, yeah, they probably did get, you know,
your, I don't think they hadthese custom made.
I think that somebody probablywas producing something like
this and they were like, Hey, Iwant to get in on that.
Timothy Sullivan (25:10):
Yeah,
John Puma (25:10):
size you got?
Timothy Sullivan (25:11):
And I just noticed that there is a giant
picture of the can on the pouch.
John Puma (25:16):
Yes.
It's not just, it's not just thelogo.
They're like, no, it's this, itis this, this can that you know,
Timothy Sullivan (25:23):
Yeah, well, I have to say, I really like this.
Like the, the um, the juice boxwith the straw was not the best
way for me to drink sake out ofa little, a little kindergarten
straw like that.
But this, like lift up the pouchand push the button.
(25:44):
It's pretty nice.
John Puma (25:48):
It's a party and a bag.
Timothy Sullivan (25:51):
Yeah.
John Puma (25:53):
I gotcha.
going to say it.
Um, yeah, this is great.
And I, like I said, this isperfect to like go And, and
again, this food, this rather,and again, this sake
specifically, is, is, great for,you know, your, your 4th of July
barbecue.
Timothy Sullivan (26:08):
Yeah.
It's very.
entertaining and shareable sake,don't you think?
It's like not the fanciest ormost nuanced sake on the market,
but it's still really enjoyableand great for sharing.
John Puma (26:23):
I don't think I've encountered people who, um, who
didn't enjoy Funaguchi the firsttime they had it.
And if I did, I wouldn't trustthose people.
Timothy Sullivan (26:33):
The only thing I have to say is that I always
warn people that it packs apunch.
So if people are Sipping on thislike regular sake and not using
ice or, you know, not dilutingit with anything.
I always say, you know, just beaware this packs a punch.
I like how it sits on thecounter like a Capri Sun pouch.
(26:56):
Like you can stand it up and,you know, It's really, that's
super convenient.
And if you drop it, you don'thave to worry about it smashing
on the floor.
Like, I love that too.
I, for my job, I transport a lotof bottles and I put them in my
suitcase.
I wrap them in bubble wrap andyou have to be very careful
transporting glass.
(27:18):
And this is like, you know, youcan just throw this, throw this
in your suitcase and you don'thave to worry about it breaking,
which is great.
John Puma (27:29):
And if I'm not mistaken, like, you know, this
bag, I'm, I'm not going topretend to know exactly what
this bag weighs, but I'm goingto bet you that it weighs less
than glass.
So the weight of this bag, whichagain, we mentioned this at the
front, isn't, This is not light.
Um, it is
Timothy Sullivan (27:47):
Yeah.
John Puma (27:48):
all sake.
Timothy Sullivan (27:49):
Yeah,
John Puma (27:49):
And you know and some and some plastic that is it, you
know It is really your theweight is all the importance of
so when it's empty when it'sdone You can just fold it up and
if you're in Japan, apparentlyyou can put it in recycling
Timothy Sullivan (28:00):
And as you, as you pour from the pouch, from
the spout, uh, it's a one wayvalve, as we mentioned, so that
no air goes in, the pouchcollapses thinner and thinner as
you use it, and I really likethat too.
It does protect against oxygen,and uh, And I like just giving,
(28:22):
like, if you want a little topoff, you can just squeeze the
tab and there you go.
Love it.
John Puma (28:31):
Need a little extra here we go And you know and and
also you can just like throwthis whole bag onto some ice in
the in the cooler And boom, youknow, every time you can pull it
out, pour some out, Not bad,right?
Timothy Sullivan (28:44):
All right.
John, we've, we've exploredanother dimension of funky
packaging.
What do you, I like this newseries.
What do you think?
John Puma (28:52):
I like this in series too.
I, I'm wondering how long you'regonna be able to keep this up,
Tim.
no, it's, it's been, it, it isfun.
I had a good time with the, the,the juice box.
Uh, but this is a veryenormously practical
Timothy Sullivan (29:07):
Right.
John Puma (29:08):
an improvement.
I don't know.
I love it.
This is great.
Mm-Hmm.
Mm-Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (29:12):
love it too.
And I think, uh, if, if otherEven more premium sakes came in
this packaging.
Like I would definitely beinterested, like as a consumer,
I would vote for this.
I think this is convenient, easyto use, protects the sake, It's,
it's just, there's a lot ofpractical advantages to this, I
(29:34):
think.
John Puma (29:35):
There, there are, there are.
Um, you know, I would love tosee more, um, to see more stuff
like this go on.
Timothy Sullivan (29:42):
Yeah.
So we'll.
We'll see in the next few yearsif this is the future of sake as
Kikusui thinks it will be.
But I do hope to see it with afew other, with a few other
brands.
Let's see how it goes.
John Puma (29:55):
Yeah, that'd be a lot of fun.
I'm excited.
Timothy Sullivan (29:57):
All right.
Well, John, so great to tastewith you and we'll have to see
where our funky packaging takesus next.
Um, thank you so for, uh, allthe great, uh, sake chit chat
today.
And I also want to send out aspecial thank you to all of our
listeners.
Thanks again for tuning intoday.
A special hi, hello, and thankyou to our patrons as well.
(30:21):
We are a listener supportedshow.
And if you would like to joinour community on Patreon, please
visit patreon.com/sakerevolutionto learn more.
We hope to see you there.
John Puma (30:33):
And as a quick little reminder, all of our episodes
have a corresponding page on theSake Revolution website at
sakerevolution.
com.
We've got show notes.
This one's got a video ofapparently a bunch of ladies
having a really good time in apark and then recycling very
responsibly.
We always have pictures of thebottles.
(30:53):
We always have details on thesake we drank.
Uh, and we always have atranscript, which is actually
pretty cool.
and we also have a link to ourstore there where we've got t
shirts, we've got stickers, um,and we keep saying that one day
there's going to be more.
And I mean it, I mean it thistime, especially, having said
that.
How, how are we going to takethis out, Tim?
I don't want you to raise yourpouch.
(31:14):
What do you want to do?
Yeah.
All right.
That's how we're going to do it.
raise your pouch.
Remember to keep drinking sake,potentially out of a pouch
Kampai.
Timothy Sullivan (31:27):
Kanpai!
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