June 21, 2024 • 34 mins
Episode 168. We are off to explore the sake scene in another region of Japan! This time it is beautiful Oita Prefecture! As we don't know much about Oita, despite there being 33 sake breweries there, we needed to phone-a-friend. Luckily for us, our buddy Chris Johnson (aka The Sake Ninja) lived for 3 years in rural Oita on the Jet program. Chris gets us up to speed on the charms of Oita as well as the local customs and food culture. We also hear tales of Onsen that are so hot, they are known as the Seven Hells as well has compulsory sumo wresting and a drinking game or two thrown in for good measure. We also taste Wakabotan sake, a newly exported Oita brew. Let's explore together what Oita has to offer! #SakeRevolution
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Puma (00:21):
And welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's first sakepodcast.
If you're new here, I am yourhost John Puma from the Sake
Notes as also the administratorat the internet sake discord and
reddit's r slash sake community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:34):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai.
I'm the Director of Education atthe Sake Studies Center, and I'm
also the founder of the UrbanSake website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, And doingour best to make it fun and easy
to understand.
John Puma (00:51):
Tim you adjusted your intro a little bit.
I like that
Timothy Sullivan (00:54):
a little.
John Puma (00:55):
You know as as the as the resume changes so must or as
the resume gathers new new itemsSo must the intro change
Timothy Sullivan (01:03):
And you, you know, I don't like to change my
script, right?
John Puma (01:06):
No, no, you don't like to change your script at
all.
That must have been, uh, thatmust have caused crippling
anxiety for you.
Timothy Sullivan (01:13):
We got through it together.
John Puma (01:15):
Oh, nice.
So how are things?
Good.
Timothy Sullivan (01:17):
Things are good.
And I'm excited for today.
We're going to be talking abouta place in Japan.
I pretty much know nothingabout, so that's good.
John Puma (01:28):
Well, it's a place in Japan I know very little about.
So that works out.
Timothy Sullivan (01:32):
are we going to talk about today?
John Puma (01:34):
Uh, today we're going to talk about, uh, OITA a
prefecture.
Timothy Sullivan (01:38):
Ooh, a Prefecture profile.
I
John Puma (01:39):
yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna do a, we, what we
call them the, prefecture deepdive, but not too deep
Timothy Sullivan (01:45):
Not too deep.
John Puma (01:46):
because neither of us have spent an appreciable amount
of time there.
I was there for a whopping twodays last year.
So I think that my own abilityto speak with authority, uh,
might be limited.
How about you?
Timothy Sullivan (01:59):
Oh, I, I don't know much about OITA at all.
I think, I think we're going toneed to phone a friend on this
one.
John Puma (02:06):
All right.
Do we have one handy?
Timothy Sullivan (02:08):
We do!
John Puma (02:09):
Ah,
Timothy Sullivan (02:11):
Let me introduce our good buddy and
Sake Revolution alumni, ChrisJohnson.
Uh, he is the National SalesManager for World Sake Imports.
And also World renowned as theSake Ninja, Chris first appeared
on Sake Revolution in May of2020 in episode eight, back when
(02:31):
we didn't know what we weredoing and we still don't.
And,
John Puma (02:35):
say I quit it.
What changed?
Timothy Sullivan (02:37):
and CJ was also a very special guest on our
100th episode in March, 2022.
So with that, let's welcome CJ,Chris Johnson to the episode.
Hey, Chris.
Chris Johnson (02:48):
Hello, hello.
Very excited to be joining youagain for this exciting
opportunity.
John Puma (02:54):
Yeah,
Chris Johnson (02:55):
Should be fun to go down the path of Oita ken and
its exciting stories.
I don't know if I know all thehistory.
but I do personally have quite abit of history in the
prefecture.
John Puma (03:09):
have plenty of history there.
So can you, uh, tell our, ourlisteners what your history
entails?
Chris Johnson (03:16):
Well, I was on a program called the JET program.
Which is an exchange andteaching program set up by the
Japanese government.
And I, like almost everyone whoapplies, said, I want to be in
the countryside of Kyoto.
And all I think they heard wascountryside, cause I ended up in
the countryside of Oita Ken.
And I lived there for, I livedthere for three years and dug in
(03:39):
and loved all of it and prettymuch did anything you could
imagine when it came to Oita andits existence, so pretty fun.
Timothy Sullivan (03:47):
Can I ask you, what was your first thought when
you opened the letter and itsaid you're going to Oita
Prefecture?
Chris Johnson (03:55):
I mean, keeping it PG, it was where the, is that
place?
Timothy Sullivan (04:02):
Did you reach for a map right away?
Chris Johnson (04:04):
I went, I went and immediately searched for a
map and it, you know, I, becausewe're old, we didn't have these
things called cell phones at thetime, so I couldn't just quickly
Google it.
I had to, you know, sit down andtry and figure out where this
place was.
I actually also phoned a friend,uh, and asked a family friend
who lived in Tokyo, I was like,talk to me about this Oita
(04:25):
Kusumachi place, and they went,we know nothing, was their
response.
John Puma (04:31):
so for, uh, for everybody at home, uh, Oita is,
um, located in Kyushu.
So on, uh, Kyushu Island andthen like, uh, Southern Japan.
And it's, it's on the, it'spretty much the, the Eastern
most part of the island.
If I'm, if I'm not horriblymistaken, is
Chris Johnson (04:44):
Northeast, kept me in the Northeast, just, it
was a different part of theNortheast.
Timothy Sullivan (04:51):
So Chris, can you give us the cliff notes
version of Oita?
Like, what is it famous for?
What should people know aboutit?
Chris Johnson (04:59):
So, it's famous for quite a few things,
actually, but, uh, one of themain things is that it is heavy,
uh, the onsen, quote unquote,onsen capital of the world,
Beppu, is right there in Oita,where they have the seven pools
of hell.
Uh, don't know if that sounds asattractive as I just made it
(05:19):
sound, but it's, it's, it's whatthey call it.
John Puma (05:22):
I need, we need to rewind.
Uh, uh, Seven Pools of Hell,
Chris Johnson (05:26):
Yes, uh, yes, because they're all,
John Puma (05:28):
it,
Chris Johnson (05:28):
yeah, the hot springs, they have different,
take a path up to all thedifferent experiences.
One's blue, one's red.
It's fairly exciting, but yeah,they're To me, when I always
went to it, I felt like Beppuwas the Vegas of Onsen, because
I had lived out in thecountryside.
So when I first learned abouthot springs, it was like actual,
like outdoor or a little bitmore, you went into this old hut
(05:51):
in this old house and all these,you know, the wonderful aspects
of what we've come to know isryokan and onsen.
And in Beppu, it's big flashinglights and gigantic pools and
neon signs and all sorts of funthings like that.
So that's one of the thingsthat's quite well known for.
It is also known for.
(06:11):
Shimesaba, and the actuallyamazing mackerel that is there.
They have great blowfish.
And nature, right, so that'sanother thing that's very much
so a component of Oita.
beautiful changing of leaves inthe town I lived in.
There used to be a road not thatfar down the The street from
(06:32):
where I live that people woulddrive from hours away just to
sit and traffic.
That's literally a 20 minutedrive that would take them four
hours to get through just to seethe different colors of leaves
in this one area.
John Puma (06:45):
Oh,
Chris Johnson (06:46):
So lots of fun.
Oita is also known for its Oneof the few places historically
that made both shochu, becausethat's a Kyushu thing, as well
as sake, because we had justenough cold weather and, and
good snow melt to be able tocreate fantastic sake.
Timothy Sullivan (07:02):
could you give us a quick Uh, differentiation
between what shochu is versuswhat sake is for our listeners
who may not be familiar.
Chris Johnson (07:10):
Sure.
Well, I'm pretty sure you allknow what sake is based on the
number of episodes
Timothy Sullivan (07:15):
Ha ha
Chris Johnson (07:16):
to by these two fantastic gentlemen.
But the big difference betweenthe two is that shochu is our
distilled spirit.
Uh, and it can be made frommultiple different bases.
It's pretty much anything thathas starch and or naturally
occurring sugar can become ashochu.
The one thing that gives aparallel between the two is that
both of them must use koji.
(07:37):
So the difference being thatit's a ferment like sake that
then can become an alcohol onceit's distilled, so we do have
shochus that have been made froma sake base, but you can make
from carrots and brown sugar andsweet potato and other potatoes
and barley and grains and allsorts of fun things, so it's
(07:57):
very different, but Intriguingthat we had both in the same
area.
And so I got to experience bothof those items quite often as a
young individual venturing intothe world of Japanese culture
when I first went there to teachEnglish.
And to understand how far in thecountryside I was, when we got
picked up from the plane flyingdown from our orientation in
(08:21):
Tokyo, all the other.
New jets got sweeped away intoOita City for a meeting and a
couple more days of getting toknow each other.
I got picked up by two peoplethat did not speak English, and
then they drove me to my town.
And two and a half hours later,after driving through mountains
and tunnels and valleys and moremountains and more tunnels and
more valleys, and it just gotfarther and farther into the
(08:42):
countryside, and then they werelike, We're here! that's where I
lived.
John Puma (08:49):
Mountains and tunnels are making me think that they
figured you were a flight riskand they had to prevent it.
Chris Johnson (08:53):
they wanted to make sure I got stuck in the
town and I couldn't get out.
John Puma (09:00):
That's interesting.
I didn't see that coming.
and then you said you were overthere for, uh, what, three years
Chris Johnson (09:05):
Yes, three years.
I went for a one year contractand then just kind of fell in
love with the situation anddidn't think I was done with
doing what I was there to do,which was to get everybody to
know me as Chris instead ofGaijin and, you know, the
barbarian foreigner, as some ofyou have all gotten to notice
from the Shogun, uh, recentproduction that was out there,
uh, so that that I felt that theyear three was when I finally
(09:28):
had accomplished said goals.
I was just another human whodrank a lot of sake when I lived
there.
John Puma (09:34):
So you were introduced to sake when you were
Chris Johnson (09:35):
I was.
Uh, however, introduction isvery different than under in the
sense of I was introduced to it,but I wasn't introduced to what
sake is today and what we allunderstand of the Daiginjos and
Ginjos.
I was drinking beautifully madesake, but it was at office
parties.
And I was often invited to everyoffice party.
(09:57):
And so part of that culture wasto share a drink with your co
workers and have as many drinksas your superior or senpai wants
you to partake in.
So there was just a lot of mewandering around circles of 20
plus individuals at a party andjust sitting and drinking with
all of them.
And we drank again, perfectlywonderful sake, but it was all
(10:18):
futsushu.
So I did not know the quality ofthings that were out there until
I, I Basically left in the thirdyear right before I left, I got
exposed to some beautiful stuff.
Timothy Sullivan (10:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Tell us that story.
That's, that's your aha momentwas right when you were on the
way out.
Chris Johnson (10:37):
on the, on the way out there, you're getting
rid of
Timothy Sullivan (10:40):
happened?
What happened?
Chris Johnson (10:42):
again, after years of drinking sake, I didn't
despise it in any way, shape, orform, but it was just a beverage
that got us to the next stage ofthe evening, right?
Start with sake, go to beer, endup in some sort of other Other
space, depending on how manykais we had.
Ichijikai, Nijikai, Sanjikai,Yonjikai, all those fun numbers
of parties as you build throughthem.
(11:03):
We, we had gotten to year three.
I was leaving.
I was at my farewell party andhad a whole bunch of people
there.
It was a big celebration andthey brought me a beautiful, big
1.
8 liter sake wrapped in agigantic box.
with bows, and it was wood, andit was a Junmai Daiginjo from
(11:25):
Yatsushika Shuzo, which is a abrewery just in the next town
where I lived, also in Oita.
And I looked at it and I went,sake.
I've just packed up three yearsof stuff.
And every school that I taughtat, I taught at seven schools,
everybody gave me letters andpictures and items.
So there was just, I'd alreadypacked a lot and I'm like, how
(11:47):
am I going to fit this ginormous1.
8 liter in a box back home withme?
And I'm on stage at the pointand my mom's, Little voice jumps
in my head and says, this issuch a wonderful gift.
We should share it witheverybody.
And so I was like, this is sogreat.
We should all do it.
Let's all pour out a Kanpai.
I said a little speech, took asip of the sake.
(12:08):
It was like, don't finish it.
Give me some of that back.
Cause it was absolutely amazing.
And I was like, Oh, wow.
I need to learn more about thisbeverage.
And I left three days later andstarted my path, true path of
sake back here in the UnitedStates.
John Puma (12:20):
Nice.
Timothy Sullivan (12:21):
So when you landed back in the States, like
echoes of that delicious flavorwere lingering in your, in your
mind, and you're like, I got tostudy more about that
Chris Johnson (12:29):
Exactly.
And then started a job about twoweeks after I got home at a
small restaurant in midtowncalled Katsuhama.
They had five sakes on theirlist, and that was the beginning
of the tour of just tasting andexperiencing and kept going from
1996 all the way till today.
Timothy Sullivan (12:48):
you're known as the sake ninja.
But I understand you also had afew experiences you in Oita
where perhaps you could havewound up as the sake sumo
wrestler.
Chris Johnson (12:59):
Yeah.
There's the, this is, this isvery true.
There are, there is this factthat I was, I did sumo wrestle
and I did drink sake on the sameevening, so I could have beca
become the sake sumo.
Samurai, something, I don'tknow, we'll figure out what it
is Yeah, so
Timothy Sullivan (13:16):
you doing?
How did that happen?
Why were you doing sumowrestling?
How did that
Chris Johnson (13:21):
one of the many traditions in the small town
that I lived in, uh, and is thatwhen you join the town office
every year, the first yearmembers of the town office must
participate in a 300 plus yearold sumo tournament in one of
the small little villages thatare part of the overall town.
(13:42):
And.
I met two people on the firstday that I rolled into the
office, and they came up to mein their best English, and I did
not speak Japanese at the time,and they said, Chris, you like
sumo?
And I said, yes, I don't reallyknow what sumo is, but of
course, of course I love it.
It's fantastic.
Those are big guys that pusheach other around, right?
Yeah, sure, I love it.
(14:02):
Did not see those two guys untilAgain, this was in the end of
August, or end of July, I guess.
I didn't see those twoindividuals again until October
29th.
And they came in and they handedme a little blue book, which is
what they do in Japan, thelittle blue books, and now I
could read my name.
And I saw my name and they said,Sumo tournament, Kusan, sub
(14:24):
captain, practice tonight.
And the tournament was the 31stevery year.
And so I went in and, andpracticed that night, uh,
learning how to be a sumowrestler per se.
And those of you who might knowme, uh, I am a lot heavier than
I was when I lived in Japan.
(14:45):
And so I was probably 175, 180pounds, uh, sweaty and soaking
wet.
And they put me into these
Timothy Sullivan (14:54):
like six, two,
Chris Johnson (14:55):
Six, Six, foot one.
Yeah, so a fairly tall personand a very skinny one.
And so the sumo was a, was aninteresting yet, yet fantastic
event, but it was super fun.
It was amazing.
Um, I can tell you that whenyou're not a pro, the little
Mawashi, which are the Kind ofoutfits you wear are made out of
(15:15):
canvas, and they're nowhere nearas comfortable as one might
think they'd be.
I know they look verycomfortable when you see them on
TV, but they're not.
Um, and we wrestled, we did it,and I was, had so much fun.
I laughed, I called friends, andthen I, for the next two years,
I invited foreigners, and we hada foreigner team.
And then the third year, we hadtwo foreigner teams come in and
(15:37):
actually participate in thistournament.
Uh, and it was, it washilarious.
It was absolutely hilarious.
I have a photo somewhere of meagainst my very first, uh,
opponent and this is, he'sprobably in junior high school,
but he's 265 pounds on his wayto go to Tokyo to be a part of
(15:59):
an actual sumo beya.
Like, he was becoming a sumowrestler and that was the first
person that I ever fought, uh,in an actual sumo ring.
And I kind of remember the guysaying go and then I looked up
and I was on my back outside thering.
So, um, that was fun.
Timothy Sullivan (16:19):
Well, if we can locate that picture, we have
to
Chris Johnson (16:22):
Oh,
Timothy Sullivan (16:22):
it in the show notes.
John Puma (16:23):
uh,
Chris Johnson (16:23):
have it somewhere.
John Puma (16:25):
show notes.
Chris Johnson (16:27):
I have it somewhere.
I just have to find it.
John Puma (16:28):
Yeah.
Chris Johnson (16:29):
so sumo was a, was very exciting, I did get to
participate in pretty much everysport you could imagine that
ever happened in that town.
Um, so another exciting sakerelated tradition was that on
the baseball team, the samerookies would have to drink out
of a 1.
8 liter bottle as much as theycan.
Right?
To show how much they canparticipate in the alcohol
(16:51):
situation.
I do not recommend this to allyou listeners out there.
This is not something you shouldgo and try and do on your
weekends.
However, I did participate insaid thing.
And I will tell you, uh, that Idrank too much of that bottle
and I did ride my bike into arice field on the way home.
John Puma (17:13):
Mm-Hmm.
Chris Johnson (17:13):
Yeah.
to my defense, there were nolights, uh, out in the middle of
the rice fields, so I was ridingback to my homestay family, and
I misjudged the right turn thatI knew was coming up, just
missed it by that much.
John Puma (17:28):
Mm.
Timothy Sullivan (17:30):
wow.
I think we have to list liketeam building into the, uh,
attractions of Oita.
This is amazing.
Chris Johnson (17:38):
Yeah, lots of team
John Puma (17:39):
Yeah.
Chris Johnson (17:39):
lots of team building.
I mean, obviously that's not theonly thing that we participated
in while we were there, but yes,a lot of team building.
John Puma (17:46):
well, uh, we should, The drinking of some OITA sake
that we have with us today.
Chris Johnson (17:51):
Excellent.
John Puma (17:52):
yeah.
It doesn't, it doesn't seem tome like a lot of the, breweries
that are over there areexporting to the US
unfortunately, but we do have,uh, at least one, and, and we've
got that with us today tim,what's the, uh, what is the sake
we've gotten?
Who's making it?
Mm-Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (18:08):
Well, I think this is especially appropriate.
to represent Oita because thisis actually a sake that is
produced by a shochu distillerythat has a sub business in sake
making.
So their primary business ismaking a really super famous
shochu called Ichiko, and theyhave a Side business,
(18:32):
Kokunokura, under the brand ofWakabotan.
So this is Wakabotan JunmaiGinjo.
John, do you want to give us thestats for this great sake?
Shurui.
John Puma (18:43):
I sure do.
so as Tim pointed out, this is,from, Kokonokura Kura Brewery,
this is the WakabotanHino-hikari 50.
Now, um, the hinohikari is,referring to the rice type, and
that is apparently, uh, tablerice in OITA prefecture in this,
city of, uh, usa where actuallythe, the brewery is located.
(19:06):
this is a Junmai Ginjo Genshu.
That Hino Hikari is milled downto 50 percent of its original
size Your sake meter value iszero.
So nice and nice and neutral onyour weight The acidity is 1.
9, which is also pretty not toohigh and the yeast in this case
is association 1801 andassociation number 9
Timothy Sullivan (19:29):
All right.
John Puma (19:30):
let's let's get this in the glass
Chris Johnson (19:36):
fact that many breweries do the side business
of sake production, that'ssimilar to another producer
there, Yatsushika, who makes thesake.
Shochu, because he knows that itsells a lot, but he does that so
he can do his passion project,which is actually making the
sake, and that's not, it'sfairly common, in Oita, of the,
(19:56):
the shochu, because that's whateverybody's or more commonly
known for down in Kyushu, leadsthe path.
But then the sake is the passionproject on the side to kind of
go back to the the oldertraditions of brewing.
John Puma (20:07):
I see
Timothy Sullivan (20:08):
Yeah.
And, and Kyushu is really knownas shochu country generally, but
I looked it up and there's about33 sake breweries in Oita.
So it is no slouch when it comesto sake production at all.
Chris Johnson (20:23):
We're one of the weird, one of the weird
prefectures that gets a crazyamount of snow, uh, because it's
still on that line of where thesnow flow comes in.
So we have that, there's enoughelevation and enough of that
really fantastic water thatguides to the sake brewing and
also the cold enough winters.
The town that I lived in was oneof three in the entire
prefecture where you could havea heater in the school
(20:45):
classrooms.
So that cold, as we all knowfrom our sake studies, that,
that winter cold is what reallysupports the history of sake
brewing.
And Oita has just enough of thatto be able to have those
breweries still exist.
Timothy Sullivan (21:00):
Oh, that's really cool to know.
CJ, have you had this sakebefore?
Are you familiar with Wakabotan?
Chris Johnson (21:07):
I have had it before.
Uh, I think the first time I hadit though was here, not actually
in Japan.
Timothy Sullivan (21:13):
Yeah.
Chris Johnson (21:14):
Um, so, I know Ichigo, their other, their
shochu product very well.
And, you know, we used to chatUSA, USA when we drove past USA
on our way to other places.
You know, so we all felt, we allfelt like we were at home.
Um, you know, just a, just alittle side note, little side
story.
Timothy Sullivan (21:35):
That's funny.
It's like going to Obama, Japan,and then go to U.
S.
A.
Love it.
Love it.
Chris Johnson (21:42):
exactly.
Timothy Sullivan (21:44):
All right.
Well, let's give this a smell.
John Puma (21:47):
so you've got your usual, ginjo, notes here, you
got your tropical fruit, alittle bit of, little bit of
mango but a little more berry, alittle more on the berry side of
things, but there's still someof those tropical fruits as
well.
It's nice.
It's really, this is a verypleasant aroma.
It definitely smells likesomething that's going to be in
the, the John Puma wheelhouse.
(22:08):
Hmm.
Chris Johnson (22:11):
is, is right there.
I get like the soft star fruittype kind of things.
It's not, it's not explosivetropical notes that we sometimes
get out of those, thosenorthern, uh, John Puma style
Sakes.
But it, but it is, it is still,it is still showing up.
With those nice tones and Ithink that that very note, like,
(22:32):
especially I just had reallyfresh strawberries that just,
just got, brought in fromHarry's, locally and I can smell
that kind of strawberry notethat's reminding me of what I
just smelled yesterday.
Timothy Sullivan (22:43):
Hmm.
I got a little blurb off thebrewery's website that this sake
was developed in 2016, and theywanted to pursue a more gorgeous
and fruity taste.
And Hinohikari, as youmentioned, John, is grown in
large quantities on the UsaPlain, and is Traditionally used
(23:04):
for as an eating rice, uh, buthere they've taken it and
crafted it into a very elegantand fruity style of sake.
So I think it's just interestingthat, that this sake hasn't been
around for a long time andthey're really striving for that
fruity flavor.
give it a taste.
Mmm, it's very smooth.
John Puma (23:25):
is, as advertised.
That fruit comes across, I wantto say it's, it is a little bit
less fruity than the aroma ledme to believe it would be, but
I, but it does like making upfor that by just being really
nice and smooth and easydrinking, which, is also
something I really enjoy in asake.
So yeah, this is, this is, uh,for me, this is a bit of a
(23:48):
winner.
I like this.
Tim, you mentioned that thisonly came into existence in
2016.
Wow.
So this is a a relatively newsake then.
That's interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (23:57):
And when we talk about the palate, I think
it's also worth mentioning thatthe alcohol percentage here is
14.
5 percent and it's sold as agenshu.
So this is, I think, brewed upto this limit and then they stop
it there.
So there's some weight and alittle bit of richness in the
texture, but, uh, it's not atraditional genshu where it's,
(24:18):
you know, It's like going towallop you like a sumo wrestler
on the USA plane.
I
Chris Johnson (24:27):
sumo wrestlers were based in Usa and Nakatsu,
which are part of that, that UsaPlain, um, so, I agree, I,
interesting to hear that theacidity shows up more than when
we spoke about it initially, youknow, John saying 1.
9, not crazy, it, it has thislittle bit of acidity, I'm
getting like a soft Kind ofcitrusy, very soft lemon peel
(24:48):
type note in it, which is great,especially in the finish, like
the after, like a little bit ofthat aftertaste is showing some
of those notes.
Timothy Sullivan (24:58):
totally agree, CJ.
That's a great note.
And I think 1.
9 is kind of on the higher endof that standard range of, you
know, what you might expect in asake.
So they might've bumped up thatacidity a little bit.
It does bring out a littlecitrus note on the finish,
absolutely.
Chris Johnson (25:13):
I agree.
1.
9 is on the
John Puma (25:16):
It's on the, it's on the higher end, but it's not
Chris Johnson (25:18):
the standard.
Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan (25:20):
yeah.
And I've never, do you have anymemories of Hino Hikari from
your time in Oita?
I've never heard of this eatingrice before.
Chris Johnson (25:30):
that's one of the rices that were was fairly
commonly used in restaurants andstuff.
I, I didn't eat it at home.
I didn't really purchase ricebecause my homestay family had
rice that I used to harvestmyself.
And so I had, I had access to myown rice all the time from the
family.
So we didn't necessarily have tobuy rice per se.
(25:50):
But I do remember Hino Hikari asa, as a brand out there.
Timothy Sullivan (25:53):
Awesome.
Chris Johnson (25:54):
It was nice having a, you know, my own
little grandma made vegetablesand we just, whenever I stopped
by, I'd get a little basket of,of things to cook with and, and
have the rice there.
But I also had to go and work onthe, you know, in the fields in
order to get the access to said,to said rice.
So every, every year I didplanting of the rice and
(26:16):
harvesting of the rice andhelping with the vegetables and
moving things and helpinggrandpa and all that good stuff.
Timothy Sullivan (26:22):
Good lord.
They kept you busy.
Chris Johnson (26:24):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (26:25):
Oh my god.
I'm getting tired just hearingabout it.
now, CJ, you have a long,illustrious career in
restaurants as well as the sakeworld, and you are a very
accomplished cook as well.
And I wanted to know if you hadany thoughts or ideas or things
that might pair well with thissake.
(26:46):
This is something that John andI talk about a lot on every
episode and it stumps us.
It stumps us sometimes.
So any, any thoughts on dishesthat might pair well with this
lightly fruity sake from Oita?
Chris Johnson (26:59):
I mean, right now, I would think moving into
kind of springtime, summertime,lighter, lighter preparations of
dishes like a chicken paillardtype thing where it's just
pounded pounded lightly with anice salad on top.
We actually, last night, I justhad a chicken cutlets with a
Caesar salad on top and thiswould crush with that.
(27:22):
It would be absolutely perfectbecause you have a little bit of
umami from the anchovy, but thenyou have citrus from the lemon,
and then all those kind oflittle balances, a little bit of
fried, and fried food with sakeis like this, this acidity is
going to play off a little bitof that, that soft fat.
So I don't think heavy, heavydishes right now for this, but I
think some, some lighter cookedfoods would be great.
Lighter side of your barbecue,pasta salad.
(27:45):
with the vegetables and thingsthat you might serve during a
barbecue on the weekends.
I think that would play withpretty well.
Timothy Sullivan (27:50):
that's such a good point.
I think that, just a hint ofhigher acidity.
It's like a little squeeze oflemon on whatever you're eating.
And the Caesar salad has thatdressing that really coats your
palate.
And this sake would just cutthrough that, the perfect
amount.
That's yum.
That sounds really good.
Chris Johnson (28:08):
I'll try and save some in
Timothy Sullivan (28:10):
ha ha.
ha ha.
Chris Johnson (28:12):
lunch, with lunch later.
But I think as we all know sakeis so versatile and it really
can live in lots of places.
But for me when it's palatedriven and fruit driven, as
you've kind of described here,and that genshu gives it a
little bit more mid palateweight.
It can stand up to cooked andnot just soft and delicate, even
though it's got that little bitof acidity, I think it plays off
(28:32):
some of those things that we'llbe doing this summer with
barbecues and whatnot.
I think this can show up alittle bit, especially with like
marinated chicken and stuff.
I know A lot of people do, youknow, make a dressing and
marinate the chicken in thatdressing that has citrus and
olive oil and garlic andwhatnot.
I think this would be reallygreat with a simply grilled
marinated chicken and then softfish with herbs and a little bit
(28:59):
of citrus and or fruit in thecavity.
John Puma (29:02):
Everything you just said sounds great.
Timothy Sullivan (29:04):
kind of to wrap things up, what was your
overall impression of OITA?
Would you recommend Sake Loversvisit this region?
any, closing thoughts on yourthree years living in OITA?
Chris Johnson (29:15):
Obviously with 33 breweries, there's a lot for a
sake fan to go experience.
Um, a lot of them are thosesmall breweries that, that you
can only taste there.
The, my Town Yukusumachi hasKamenooi, which is a very small
sake brewery right in town, thatwhich was the sake that I drank
most of the time.
So I think absolutely go there.
But it is a beautiful,beautiful, beautiful prefecture.
(29:37):
Fantastic.
hot springs, beautifulmountains, valleys, there's
also, and there's, Yufuin, whichis a super famous onsen town.
There's lots of history.
It's really cool.
Like, there's all the differentthings you could imagine because
it is a southern prefecture, butit has the mountains and it has
the valleys and it has Wonderfulwaterfalls and beautiful hikes
(30:02):
and amazing food.
You have influence from Koreaand the mainland into the food.
So there's a little bit morespice, a little bit more
richness.
So it's different from theTohoku region and the flavor
profiles there.
So it is really a wonderfulplace to visit.
So I would 100 percent recommendthat and to get out there and
try all those things.
There's lots of cool stuff.
John Puma (30:24):
As CJ.
mentioned, Beppu is where a lotof people go to visit when they
go to Oita.
It is apparently the Vegas of,hot spring towns.
I went to the city area just tokind of get a feel for the vibe
and like the local, localIzakaya culture, and A lot of
the food was, a lot of the foodwas really great.
the local sake was fantastic.
(30:45):
It was a really fun place tovisit.
And I, I also would recommend ifyou're in the, if you're in the
lookout for a place to go whileyou're in Kyushu or just, you
know, trying to get some placein Japan that maybe isn't,
Kyoto, I think it's a reallywonderful place to take a look
at.
Chris Johnson (31:01):
A lot of coastline, a lot of good fish, a
lot of good mountains.
You have both.
I lived in the mountains, butthere's a wonderful coastline,
Kunisaki and Saiki, and justabsolutely stunning.
And like I said earlier, thatmackerel, they catch it right
there.
That whole
John Puma (31:15):
That mackerel's good.
That mackerel's real good.
Chris Johnson (31:18):
Shimesaba thing, happened right there.
Timothy Sullivan (31:20):
is that the Seto Inland Sea right there that
it's on or Pacific Ocean
John Puma (31:26):
I think it's the ocean, right?
Chris Johnson (31:28):
It's kind of a mixture.
So it's, it's the Pacific,mostly, but it's the Sea of
Japan doesn't quite hit whereKyushu is.
It kind of, because you'regetting a little bit of both,
and then the Seto Island.
Inland sea from where Shikoku iskind of hit, so it's a
confluence of the differentwaters kind of right in there,
(31:49):
so that gives a pretty amazingplace for the fish, which is why
you have such a diverse fishpopulation there and such great
seafood in Oita.
Timothy Sullivan (31:57):
Mm.
Amazing.
All right.
Now, CJ, you do a lot of sakeevents with your work for World
Sake Imports.
Where can people find you onlineand follow you if they want to
get a sense for what you're outthere doing in the world for
sake?
Chris Johnson (32:11):
I am on the gram, with the tag name The sake
Ninja.
So you can find me on Instagramat The Sake Ninja, and that's
really where I do most of mystuff.
Timothy Sullivan (32:23):
Awesome.
Sounds great.
So we'll be sure to tag that inour show notes and you can
follow Chris there.
Chris, thank you so much forjoining us from episode eight
until today.
Uh, it's so nice to have youback.
Chris Johnson (32:37):
Thank you very much for having me.
I am always available to hangout and chat with you two
wonderful people.
I enjoy it a lot.
And we'll consistently be hereto talk sake with the two of you
whenever we can.
John Puma (32:50):
Excellent.
Timothy Sullivan (32:51):
All right.
Well, Chris.
And John, it was so great totaste this sake with you.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
And CJ, we can't wait to haveyou back again soon.
A special thank you to all ofour listeners for tuning in, but
a special hello, hi, and extraspecial thank you to our
patrons.
(33:11):
We would not be here without thewonderful support from all our
patrons.
And if you would like to learnmore about supporting our show,
you can visitPatreon.com/SakeRevolution.com
to learn more.
John Puma (33:22):
and, well, we already told you you should check out
the show notes.
But, there's also a little shopat our, website,
SakeRevolution.Com, where youcan, uh, get some Sake
Revolution swag for you or the,the, uh, Budding sake lover in
your life.
so you check it out and see ifany of our merchandise appeals
to you so everybody on thatnote, let's grab a glass
(33:47):
remember to keep drinking sakeand Kanpai
And welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's first sakepodcast.
If you're new here, I am yourhost John Puma from the Sake
Notes as also the administratorat the internet sake discord and
reddit's r slash sake community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:34):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai.
I'm the Director of Education atthe Sake Studies Center, and I'm
also the founder of the UrbanSake website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, And doingour best to make it fun and easy
to understand.
John Puma (00:51):
Tim you adjusted your intro a little bit.
I like that
Timothy Sullivan (00:54):
a little.
John Puma (00:55):
You know as as the as the resume changes so must or as
the resume gathers new new itemsSo must the intro change
Timothy Sullivan (01:03):
And you, you know, I don't like to change my
script, right?
John Puma (01:06):
No, no, you don't like to change your script at
all.
That must have been, uh, thatmust have caused crippling
anxiety for you.
Timothy Sullivan (01:13):
We got through it together.
John Puma (01:15):
Oh, nice.
So how are things?
Good.
Timothy Sullivan (01:17):
Things are good.
And I'm excited for today.
We're going to be talking abouta place in Japan.
I pretty much know nothingabout, so that's good.
John Puma (01:28):
Well, it's a place in Japan I know very little about.
So that works out.
Timothy Sullivan (01:32):
are we going to talk about today?
John Puma (01:34):
Uh, today we're going to talk about, uh, OITA a
prefecture.
Timothy Sullivan (01:38):
Ooh, a Prefecture profile.
I
John Puma (01:39):
yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna do a, we, what we
call them the, prefecture deepdive, but not too deep
Timothy Sullivan (01:45):
Not too deep.
John Puma (01:46):
because neither of us have spent an appreciable amount
of time there.
I was there for a whopping twodays last year.
So I think that my own abilityto speak with authority, uh,
might be limited.
How about you?
Timothy Sullivan (01:59):
Oh, I, I don't know much about OITA at all.
I think, I think we're going toneed to phone a friend on this
one.
John Puma (02:06):
All right.
Do we have one handy?
Timothy Sullivan (02:08):
We do!
John Puma (02:09):
Ah,
Timothy Sullivan (02:11):
Let me introduce our good buddy and
Sake Revolution alumni, ChrisJohnson.
Uh, he is the National SalesManager for World Sake Imports.
And also World renowned as theSake Ninja, Chris first appeared
on Sake Revolution in May of2020 in episode eight, back when
(02:31):
we didn't know what we weredoing and we still don't.
And,
John Puma (02:35):
say I quit it.
What changed?
Timothy Sullivan (02:37):
and CJ was also a very special guest on our
100th episode in March, 2022.
So with that, let's welcome CJ,Chris Johnson to the episode.
Hey, Chris.
Chris Johnson (02:48):
Hello, hello.
Very excited to be joining youagain for this exciting
opportunity.
John Puma (02:54):
Yeah,
Chris Johnson (02:55):
Should be fun to go down the path of Oita ken and
its exciting stories.
I don't know if I know all thehistory.
but I do personally have quite abit of history in the
prefecture.
John Puma (03:09):
have plenty of history there.
So can you, uh, tell our, ourlisteners what your history
entails?
Chris Johnson (03:16):
Well, I was on a program called the JET program.
Which is an exchange andteaching program set up by the
Japanese government.
And I, like almost everyone whoapplies, said, I want to be in
the countryside of Kyoto.
And all I think they heard wascountryside, cause I ended up in
the countryside of Oita Ken.
And I lived there for, I livedthere for three years and dug in
(03:39):
and loved all of it and prettymuch did anything you could
imagine when it came to Oita andits existence, so pretty fun.
Timothy Sullivan (03:47):
Can I ask you, what was your first thought when
you opened the letter and itsaid you're going to Oita
Prefecture?
Chris Johnson (03:55):
I mean, keeping it PG, it was where the, is that
place?
Timothy Sullivan (04:02):
Did you reach for a map right away?
Chris Johnson (04:04):
I went, I went and immediately searched for a
map and it, you know, I, becausewe're old, we didn't have these
things called cell phones at thetime, so I couldn't just quickly
Google it.
I had to, you know, sit down andtry and figure out where this
place was.
I actually also phoned a friend,uh, and asked a family friend
who lived in Tokyo, I was like,talk to me about this Oita
(04:25):
Kusumachi place, and they went,we know nothing, was their
response.
John Puma (04:31):
so for, uh, for everybody at home, uh, Oita is,
um, located in Kyushu.
So on, uh, Kyushu Island andthen like, uh, Southern Japan.
And it's, it's on the, it'spretty much the, the Eastern
most part of the island.
If I'm, if I'm not horriblymistaken, is
Chris Johnson (04:44):
Northeast, kept me in the Northeast, just, it
was a different part of theNortheast.
Timothy Sullivan (04:51):
So Chris, can you give us the cliff notes
version of Oita?
Like, what is it famous for?
What should people know aboutit?
Chris Johnson (04:59):
So, it's famous for quite a few things,
actually, but, uh, one of themain things is that it is heavy,
uh, the onsen, quote unquote,onsen capital of the world,
Beppu, is right there in Oita,where they have the seven pools
of hell.
Uh, don't know if that sounds asattractive as I just made it
(05:19):
sound, but it's, it's, it's whatthey call it.
John Puma (05:22):
I need, we need to rewind.
Uh, uh, Seven Pools of Hell,
Chris Johnson (05:26):
Yes, uh, yes, because they're all,
John Puma (05:28):
it,
Chris Johnson (05:28):
yeah, the hot springs, they have different,
take a path up to all thedifferent experiences.
One's blue, one's red.
It's fairly exciting, but yeah,they're To me, when I always
went to it, I felt like Beppuwas the Vegas of Onsen, because
I had lived out in thecountryside.
So when I first learned abouthot springs, it was like actual,
like outdoor or a little bitmore, you went into this old hut
(05:51):
in this old house and all these,you know, the wonderful aspects
of what we've come to know isryokan and onsen.
And in Beppu, it's big flashinglights and gigantic pools and
neon signs and all sorts of funthings like that.
So that's one of the thingsthat's quite well known for.
It is also known for.
(06:11):
Shimesaba, and the actuallyamazing mackerel that is there.
They have great blowfish.
And nature, right, so that'sanother thing that's very much
so a component of Oita.
beautiful changing of leaves inthe town I lived in.
There used to be a road not thatfar down the The street from
(06:32):
where I live that people woulddrive from hours away just to
sit and traffic.
That's literally a 20 minutedrive that would take them four
hours to get through just to seethe different colors of leaves
in this one area.
John Puma (06:45):
Oh,
Chris Johnson (06:46):
So lots of fun.
Oita is also known for its Oneof the few places historically
that made both shochu, becausethat's a Kyushu thing, as well
as sake, because we had justenough cold weather and, and
good snow melt to be able tocreate fantastic sake.
Timothy Sullivan (07:02):
could you give us a quick Uh, differentiation
between what shochu is versuswhat sake is for our listeners
who may not be familiar.
Chris Johnson (07:10):
Sure.
Well, I'm pretty sure you allknow what sake is based on the
number of episodes
Timothy Sullivan (07:15):
Ha ha
Chris Johnson (07:16):
to by these two fantastic gentlemen.
But the big difference betweenthe two is that shochu is our
distilled spirit.
Uh, and it can be made frommultiple different bases.
It's pretty much anything thathas starch and or naturally
occurring sugar can become ashochu.
The one thing that gives aparallel between the two is that
both of them must use koji.
(07:37):
So the difference being thatit's a ferment like sake that
then can become an alcohol onceit's distilled, so we do have
shochus that have been made froma sake base, but you can make
from carrots and brown sugar andsweet potato and other potatoes
and barley and grains and allsorts of fun things, so it's
(07:57):
very different, but Intriguingthat we had both in the same
area.
And so I got to experience bothof those items quite often as a
young individual venturing intothe world of Japanese culture
when I first went there to teachEnglish.
And to understand how far in thecountryside I was, when we got
picked up from the plane flyingdown from our orientation in
(08:21):
Tokyo, all the other.
New jets got sweeped away intoOita City for a meeting and a
couple more days of getting toknow each other.
I got picked up by two peoplethat did not speak English, and
then they drove me to my town.
And two and a half hours later,after driving through mountains
and tunnels and valleys and moremountains and more tunnels and
more valleys, and it just gotfarther and farther into the
(08:42):
countryside, and then they werelike, We're here! that's where I
lived.
John Puma (08:49):
Mountains and tunnels are making me think that they
figured you were a flight riskand they had to prevent it.
Chris Johnson (08:53):
they wanted to make sure I got stuck in the
town and I couldn't get out.
John Puma (09:00):
That's interesting.
I didn't see that coming.
and then you said you were overthere for, uh, what, three years
Chris Johnson (09:05):
Yes, three years.
I went for a one year contractand then just kind of fell in
love with the situation anddidn't think I was done with
doing what I was there to do,which was to get everybody to
know me as Chris instead ofGaijin and, you know, the
barbarian foreigner, as some ofyou have all gotten to notice
from the Shogun, uh, recentproduction that was out there,
uh, so that that I felt that theyear three was when I finally
(09:28):
had accomplished said goals.
I was just another human whodrank a lot of sake when I lived
there.
John Puma (09:34):
So you were introduced to sake when you were
Chris Johnson (09:35):
I was.
Uh, however, introduction isvery different than under in the
sense of I was introduced to it,but I wasn't introduced to what
sake is today and what we allunderstand of the Daiginjos and
Ginjos.
I was drinking beautifully madesake, but it was at office
parties.
And I was often invited to everyoffice party.
(09:57):
And so part of that culture wasto share a drink with your co
workers and have as many drinksas your superior or senpai wants
you to partake in.
So there was just a lot of mewandering around circles of 20
plus individuals at a party andjust sitting and drinking with
all of them.
And we drank again, perfectlywonderful sake, but it was all
(10:18):
futsushu.
So I did not know the quality ofthings that were out there until
I, I Basically left in the thirdyear right before I left, I got
exposed to some beautiful stuff.
Timothy Sullivan (10:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Tell us that story.
That's, that's your aha momentwas right when you were on the
way out.
Chris Johnson (10:37):
on the, on the way out there, you're getting
rid of
Timothy Sullivan (10:40):
happened?
What happened?
Chris Johnson (10:42):
again, after years of drinking sake, I didn't
despise it in any way, shape, orform, but it was just a beverage
that got us to the next stage ofthe evening, right?
Start with sake, go to beer, endup in some sort of other Other
space, depending on how manykais we had.
Ichijikai, Nijikai, Sanjikai,Yonjikai, all those fun numbers
of parties as you build throughthem.
(11:03):
We, we had gotten to year three.
I was leaving.
I was at my farewell party andhad a whole bunch of people
there.
It was a big celebration andthey brought me a beautiful, big
1.
8 liter sake wrapped in agigantic box.
with bows, and it was wood, andit was a Junmai Daiginjo from
(11:25):
Yatsushika Shuzo, which is a abrewery just in the next town
where I lived, also in Oita.
And I looked at it and I went,sake.
I've just packed up three yearsof stuff.
And every school that I taughtat, I taught at seven schools,
everybody gave me letters andpictures and items.
So there was just, I'd alreadypacked a lot and I'm like, how
(11:47):
am I going to fit this ginormous1.
8 liter in a box back home withme?
And I'm on stage at the pointand my mom's, Little voice jumps
in my head and says, this issuch a wonderful gift.
We should share it witheverybody.
And so I was like, this is sogreat.
We should all do it.
Let's all pour out a Kanpai.
I said a little speech, took asip of the sake.
(12:08):
It was like, don't finish it.
Give me some of that back.
Cause it was absolutely amazing.
And I was like, Oh, wow.
I need to learn more about thisbeverage.
And I left three days later andstarted my path, true path of
sake back here in the UnitedStates.
John Puma (12:20):
Nice.
Timothy Sullivan (12:21):
So when you landed back in the States, like
echoes of that delicious flavorwere lingering in your, in your
mind, and you're like, I got tostudy more about that
Chris Johnson (12:29):
Exactly.
And then started a job about twoweeks after I got home at a
small restaurant in midtowncalled Katsuhama.
They had five sakes on theirlist, and that was the beginning
of the tour of just tasting andexperiencing and kept going from
1996 all the way till today.
Timothy Sullivan (12:48):
you're known as the sake ninja.
But I understand you also had afew experiences you in Oita
where perhaps you could havewound up as the sake sumo
wrestler.
Chris Johnson (12:59):
Yeah.
There's the, this is, this isvery true.
There are, there is this factthat I was, I did sumo wrestle
and I did drink sake on the sameevening, so I could have beca
become the sake sumo.
Samurai, something, I don'tknow, we'll figure out what it
is Yeah, so
Timothy Sullivan (13:16):
you doing?
How did that happen?
Why were you doing sumowrestling?
How did that
Chris Johnson (13:21):
one of the many traditions in the small town
that I lived in, uh, and is thatwhen you join the town office
every year, the first yearmembers of the town office must
participate in a 300 plus yearold sumo tournament in one of
the small little villages thatare part of the overall town.
(13:42):
And.
I met two people on the firstday that I rolled into the
office, and they came up to mein their best English, and I did
not speak Japanese at the time,and they said, Chris, you like
sumo?
And I said, yes, I don't reallyknow what sumo is, but of
course, of course I love it.
It's fantastic.
Those are big guys that pusheach other around, right?
Yeah, sure, I love it.
(14:02):
Did not see those two guys untilAgain, this was in the end of
August, or end of July, I guess.
I didn't see those twoindividuals again until October
29th.
And they came in and they handedme a little blue book, which is
what they do in Japan, thelittle blue books, and now I
could read my name.
And I saw my name and they said,Sumo tournament, Kusan, sub
(14:24):
captain, practice tonight.
And the tournament was the 31stevery year.
And so I went in and, andpracticed that night, uh,
learning how to be a sumowrestler per se.
And those of you who might knowme, uh, I am a lot heavier than
I was when I lived in Japan.
(14:45):
And so I was probably 175, 180pounds, uh, sweaty and soaking
wet.
And they put me into these
Timothy Sullivan (14:54):
like six, two,
Chris Johnson (14:55):
Six, Six, foot one.
Yeah, so a fairly tall personand a very skinny one.
And so the sumo was a, was aninteresting yet, yet fantastic
event, but it was super fun.
It was amazing.
Um, I can tell you that whenyou're not a pro, the little
Mawashi, which are the Kind ofoutfits you wear are made out of
(15:15):
canvas, and they're nowhere nearas comfortable as one might
think they'd be.
I know they look verycomfortable when you see them on
TV, but they're not.
Um, and we wrestled, we did it,and I was, had so much fun.
I laughed, I called friends, andthen I, for the next two years,
I invited foreigners, and we hada foreigner team.
And then the third year, we hadtwo foreigner teams come in and
(15:37):
actually participate in thistournament.
Uh, and it was, it washilarious.
It was absolutely hilarious.
I have a photo somewhere of meagainst my very first, uh,
opponent and this is, he'sprobably in junior high school,
but he's 265 pounds on his wayto go to Tokyo to be a part of
(15:59):
an actual sumo beya.
Like, he was becoming a sumowrestler and that was the first
person that I ever fought, uh,in an actual sumo ring.
And I kind of remember the guysaying go and then I looked up
and I was on my back outside thering.
So, um, that was fun.
Timothy Sullivan (16:19):
Well, if we can locate that picture, we have
to
Chris Johnson (16:22):
Oh,
Timothy Sullivan (16:22):
it in the show notes.
John Puma (16:23):
uh,
Chris Johnson (16:23):
have it somewhere.
John Puma (16:25):
show notes.
Chris Johnson (16:27):
I have it somewhere.
I just have to find it.
John Puma (16:28):
Yeah.
Chris Johnson (16:29):
so sumo was a, was very exciting, I did get to
participate in pretty much everysport you could imagine that
ever happened in that town.
Um, so another exciting sakerelated tradition was that on
the baseball team, the samerookies would have to drink out
of a 1.
8 liter bottle as much as theycan.
Right?
To show how much they canparticipate in the alcohol
(16:51):
situation.
I do not recommend this to allyou listeners out there.
This is not something you shouldgo and try and do on your
weekends.
However, I did participate insaid thing.
And I will tell you, uh, that Idrank too much of that bottle
and I did ride my bike into arice field on the way home.
John Puma (17:13):
Mm-Hmm.
Chris Johnson (17:13):
Yeah.
to my defense, there were nolights, uh, out in the middle of
the rice fields, so I was ridingback to my homestay family, and
I misjudged the right turn thatI knew was coming up, just
missed it by that much.
John Puma (17:28):
Mm.
Timothy Sullivan (17:30):
wow.
I think we have to list liketeam building into the, uh,
attractions of Oita.
This is amazing.
Chris Johnson (17:38):
Yeah, lots of team
John Puma (17:39):
Yeah.
Chris Johnson (17:39):
lots of team building.
I mean, obviously that's not theonly thing that we participated
in while we were there, but yes,a lot of team building.
John Puma (17:46):
well, uh, we should, The drinking of some OITA sake
that we have with us today.
Chris Johnson (17:51):
Excellent.
John Puma (17:52):
yeah.
It doesn't, it doesn't seem tome like a lot of the, breweries
that are over there areexporting to the US
unfortunately, but we do have,uh, at least one, and, and we've
got that with us today tim,what's the, uh, what is the sake
we've gotten?
Who's making it?
Mm-Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (18:08):
Well, I think this is especially appropriate.
to represent Oita because thisis actually a sake that is
produced by a shochu distillerythat has a sub business in sake
making.
So their primary business ismaking a really super famous
shochu called Ichiko, and theyhave a Side business,
(18:32):
Kokunokura, under the brand ofWakabotan.
So this is Wakabotan JunmaiGinjo.
John, do you want to give us thestats for this great sake?
Shurui.
John Puma (18:43):
I sure do.
so as Tim pointed out, this is,from, Kokonokura Kura Brewery,
this is the WakabotanHino-hikari 50.
Now, um, the hinohikari is,referring to the rice type, and
that is apparently, uh, tablerice in OITA prefecture in this,
city of, uh, usa where actuallythe, the brewery is located.
(19:06):
this is a Junmai Ginjo Genshu.
That Hino Hikari is milled downto 50 percent of its original
size Your sake meter value iszero.
So nice and nice and neutral onyour weight The acidity is 1.
9, which is also pretty not toohigh and the yeast in this case
is association 1801 andassociation number 9
Timothy Sullivan (19:29):
All right.
John Puma (19:30):
let's let's get this in the glass
Chris Johnson (19:36):
fact that many breweries do the side business
of sake production, that'ssimilar to another producer
there, Yatsushika, who makes thesake.
Shochu, because he knows that itsells a lot, but he does that so
he can do his passion project,which is actually making the
sake, and that's not, it'sfairly common, in Oita, of the,
(19:56):
the shochu, because that's whateverybody's or more commonly
known for down in Kyushu, leadsthe path.
But then the sake is the passionproject on the side to kind of
go back to the the oldertraditions of brewing.
John Puma (20:07):
I see
Timothy Sullivan (20:08):
Yeah.
And, and Kyushu is really knownas shochu country generally, but
I looked it up and there's about33 sake breweries in Oita.
So it is no slouch when it comesto sake production at all.
Chris Johnson (20:23):
We're one of the weird, one of the weird
prefectures that gets a crazyamount of snow, uh, because it's
still on that line of where thesnow flow comes in.
So we have that, there's enoughelevation and enough of that
really fantastic water thatguides to the sake brewing and
also the cold enough winters.
The town that I lived in was oneof three in the entire
prefecture where you could havea heater in the school
(20:45):
classrooms.
So that cold, as we all knowfrom our sake studies, that,
that winter cold is what reallysupports the history of sake
brewing.
And Oita has just enough of thatto be able to have those
breweries still exist.
Timothy Sullivan (21:00):
Oh, that's really cool to know.
CJ, have you had this sakebefore?
Are you familiar with Wakabotan?
Chris Johnson (21:07):
I have had it before.
Uh, I think the first time I hadit though was here, not actually
in Japan.
Timothy Sullivan (21:13):
Yeah.
Chris Johnson (21:14):
Um, so, I know Ichigo, their other, their
shochu product very well.
And, you know, we used to chatUSA, USA when we drove past USA
on our way to other places.
You know, so we all felt, we allfelt like we were at home.
Um, you know, just a, just alittle side note, little side
story.
Timothy Sullivan (21:35):
That's funny.
It's like going to Obama, Japan,and then go to U.
S.
A.
Love it.
Love it.
Chris Johnson (21:42):
exactly.
Timothy Sullivan (21:44):
All right.
Well, let's give this a smell.
John Puma (21:47):
so you've got your usual, ginjo, notes here, you
got your tropical fruit, alittle bit of, little bit of
mango but a little more berry, alittle more on the berry side of
things, but there's still someof those tropical fruits as
well.
It's nice.
It's really, this is a verypleasant aroma.
It definitely smells likesomething that's going to be in
the, the John Puma wheelhouse.
(22:08):
Hmm.
Chris Johnson (22:11):
is, is right there.
I get like the soft star fruittype kind of things.
It's not, it's not explosivetropical notes that we sometimes
get out of those, thosenorthern, uh, John Puma style
Sakes.
But it, but it is, it is still,it is still showing up.
With those nice tones and Ithink that that very note, like,
(22:32):
especially I just had reallyfresh strawberries that just,
just got, brought in fromHarry's, locally and I can smell
that kind of strawberry notethat's reminding me of what I
just smelled yesterday.
Timothy Sullivan (22:43):
Hmm.
I got a little blurb off thebrewery's website that this sake
was developed in 2016, and theywanted to pursue a more gorgeous
and fruity taste.
And Hinohikari, as youmentioned, John, is grown in
large quantities on the UsaPlain, and is Traditionally used
(23:04):
for as an eating rice, uh, buthere they've taken it and
crafted it into a very elegantand fruity style of sake.
So I think it's just interestingthat, that this sake hasn't been
around for a long time andthey're really striving for that
fruity flavor.
give it a taste.
Mmm, it's very smooth.
John Puma (23:25):
is, as advertised.
That fruit comes across, I wantto say it's, it is a little bit
less fruity than the aroma ledme to believe it would be, but
I, but it does like making upfor that by just being really
nice and smooth and easydrinking, which, is also
something I really enjoy in asake.
So yeah, this is, this is, uh,for me, this is a bit of a
(23:48):
winner.
I like this.
Tim, you mentioned that thisonly came into existence in
2016.
Wow.
So this is a a relatively newsake then.
That's interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (23:57):
And when we talk about the palate, I think
it's also worth mentioning thatthe alcohol percentage here is
14.
5 percent and it's sold as agenshu.
So this is, I think, brewed upto this limit and then they stop
it there.
So there's some weight and alittle bit of richness in the
texture, but, uh, it's not atraditional genshu where it's,
(24:18):
you know, It's like going towallop you like a sumo wrestler
on the USA plane.
I
Chris Johnson (24:27):
sumo wrestlers were based in Usa and Nakatsu,
which are part of that, that UsaPlain, um, so, I agree, I,
interesting to hear that theacidity shows up more than when
we spoke about it initially, youknow, John saying 1.
9, not crazy, it, it has thislittle bit of acidity, I'm
getting like a soft Kind ofcitrusy, very soft lemon peel
(24:48):
type note in it, which is great,especially in the finish, like
the after, like a little bit ofthat aftertaste is showing some
of those notes.
Timothy Sullivan (24:58):
totally agree, CJ.
That's a great note.
And I think 1.
9 is kind of on the higher endof that standard range of, you
know, what you might expect in asake.
So they might've bumped up thatacidity a little bit.
It does bring out a littlecitrus note on the finish,
absolutely.
Chris Johnson (25:13):
I agree.
1.
9 is on the
John Puma (25:16):
It's on the, it's on the higher end, but it's not
Chris Johnson (25:18):
the standard.
Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan (25:20):
yeah.
And I've never, do you have anymemories of Hino Hikari from
your time in Oita?
I've never heard of this eatingrice before.
Chris Johnson (25:30):
that's one of the rices that were was fairly
commonly used in restaurants andstuff.
I, I didn't eat it at home.
I didn't really purchase ricebecause my homestay family had
rice that I used to harvestmyself.
And so I had, I had access to myown rice all the time from the
family.
So we didn't necessarily have tobuy rice per se.
(25:50):
But I do remember Hino Hikari asa, as a brand out there.
Timothy Sullivan (25:53):
Awesome.
Chris Johnson (25:54):
It was nice having a, you know, my own
little grandma made vegetablesand we just, whenever I stopped
by, I'd get a little basket of,of things to cook with and, and
have the rice there.
But I also had to go and work onthe, you know, in the fields in
order to get the access to said,to said rice.
So every, every year I didplanting of the rice and
(26:16):
harvesting of the rice andhelping with the vegetables and
moving things and helpinggrandpa and all that good stuff.
Timothy Sullivan (26:22):
Good lord.
They kept you busy.
Chris Johnson (26:24):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (26:25):
Oh my god.
I'm getting tired just hearingabout it.
now, CJ, you have a long,illustrious career in
restaurants as well as the sakeworld, and you are a very
accomplished cook as well.
And I wanted to know if you hadany thoughts or ideas or things
that might pair well with thissake.
(26:46):
This is something that John andI talk about a lot on every
episode and it stumps us.
It stumps us sometimes.
So any, any thoughts on dishesthat might pair well with this
lightly fruity sake from Oita?
Chris Johnson (26:59):
I mean, right now, I would think moving into
kind of springtime, summertime,lighter, lighter preparations of
dishes like a chicken paillardtype thing where it's just
pounded pounded lightly with anice salad on top.
We actually, last night, I justhad a chicken cutlets with a
Caesar salad on top and thiswould crush with that.
(27:22):
It would be absolutely perfectbecause you have a little bit of
umami from the anchovy, but thenyou have citrus from the lemon,
and then all those kind oflittle balances, a little bit of
fried, and fried food with sakeis like this, this acidity is
going to play off a little bitof that, that soft fat.
So I don't think heavy, heavydishes right now for this, but I
think some, some lighter cookedfoods would be great.
Lighter side of your barbecue,pasta salad.
(27:45):
with the vegetables and thingsthat you might serve during a
barbecue on the weekends.
I think that would play withpretty well.
Timothy Sullivan (27:50):
that's such a good point.
I think that, just a hint ofhigher acidity.
It's like a little squeeze oflemon on whatever you're eating.
And the Caesar salad has thatdressing that really coats your
palate.
And this sake would just cutthrough that, the perfect
amount.
That's yum.
That sounds really good.
Chris Johnson (28:08):
I'll try and save some in
Timothy Sullivan (28:10):
ha ha.
ha ha.
Chris Johnson (28:12):
lunch, with lunch later.
But I think as we all know sakeis so versatile and it really
can live in lots of places.
But for me when it's palatedriven and fruit driven, as
you've kind of described here,and that genshu gives it a
little bit more mid palateweight.
It can stand up to cooked andnot just soft and delicate, even
though it's got that little bitof acidity, I think it plays off
(28:32):
some of those things that we'llbe doing this summer with
barbecues and whatnot.
I think this can show up alittle bit, especially with like
marinated chicken and stuff.
I know A lot of people do, youknow, make a dressing and
marinate the chicken in thatdressing that has citrus and
olive oil and garlic andwhatnot.
I think this would be reallygreat with a simply grilled
marinated chicken and then softfish with herbs and a little bit
(28:59):
of citrus and or fruit in thecavity.
John Puma (29:02):
Everything you just said sounds great.
Timothy Sullivan (29:04):
kind of to wrap things up, what was your
overall impression of OITA?
Would you recommend Sake Loversvisit this region?
any, closing thoughts on yourthree years living in OITA?
Chris Johnson (29:15):
Obviously with 33 breweries, there's a lot for a
sake fan to go experience.
Um, a lot of them are thosesmall breweries that, that you
can only taste there.
The, my Town Yukusumachi hasKamenooi, which is a very small
sake brewery right in town, thatwhich was the sake that I drank
most of the time.
So I think absolutely go there.
But it is a beautiful,beautiful, beautiful prefecture.
(29:37):
Fantastic.
hot springs, beautifulmountains, valleys, there's
also, and there's, Yufuin, whichis a super famous onsen town.
There's lots of history.
It's really cool.
Like, there's all the differentthings you could imagine because
it is a southern prefecture, butit has the mountains and it has
the valleys and it has Wonderfulwaterfalls and beautiful hikes
(30:02):
and amazing food.
You have influence from Koreaand the mainland into the food.
So there's a little bit morespice, a little bit more
richness.
So it's different from theTohoku region and the flavor
profiles there.
So it is really a wonderfulplace to visit.
So I would 100 percent recommendthat and to get out there and
try all those things.
There's lots of cool stuff.
John Puma (30:24):
As CJ.
mentioned, Beppu is where a lotof people go to visit when they
go to Oita.
It is apparently the Vegas of,hot spring towns.
I went to the city area just tokind of get a feel for the vibe
and like the local, localIzakaya culture, and A lot of
the food was, a lot of the foodwas really great.
the local sake was fantastic.
(30:45):
It was a really fun place tovisit.
And I, I also would recommend ifyou're in the, if you're in the
lookout for a place to go whileyou're in Kyushu or just, you
know, trying to get some placein Japan that maybe isn't,
Kyoto, I think it's a reallywonderful place to take a look
at.
Chris Johnson (31:01):
A lot of coastline, a lot of good fish, a
lot of good mountains.
You have both.
I lived in the mountains, butthere's a wonderful coastline,
Kunisaki and Saiki, and justabsolutely stunning.
And like I said earlier, thatmackerel, they catch it right
there.
That whole
John Puma (31:15):
That mackerel's good.
That mackerel's real good.
Chris Johnson (31:18):
Shimesaba thing, happened right there.
Timothy Sullivan (31:20):
is that the Seto Inland Sea right there that
it's on or Pacific Ocean
John Puma (31:26):
I think it's the ocean, right?
Chris Johnson (31:28):
It's kind of a mixture.
So it's, it's the Pacific,mostly, but it's the Sea of
Japan doesn't quite hit whereKyushu is.
It kind of, because you'regetting a little bit of both,
and then the Seto Island.
Inland sea from where Shikoku iskind of hit, so it's a
confluence of the differentwaters kind of right in there,
(31:49):
so that gives a pretty amazingplace for the fish, which is why
you have such a diverse fishpopulation there and such great
seafood in Oita.
Timothy Sullivan (31:57):
Mm.
Amazing.
All right.
Now, CJ, you do a lot of sakeevents with your work for World
Sake Imports.
Where can people find you onlineand follow you if they want to
get a sense for what you're outthere doing in the world for
sake?
Chris Johnson (32:11):
I am on the gram, with the tag name The sake
Ninja.
So you can find me on Instagramat The Sake Ninja, and that's
really where I do most of mystuff.
Timothy Sullivan (32:23):
Awesome.
Sounds great.
So we'll be sure to tag that inour show notes and you can
follow Chris there.
Chris, thank you so much forjoining us from episode eight
until today.
Uh, it's so nice to have youback.
Chris Johnson (32:37):
Thank you very much for having me.
I am always available to hangout and chat with you two
wonderful people.
I enjoy it a lot.
And we'll consistently be hereto talk sake with the two of you
whenever we can.
John Puma (32:50):
Excellent.
Timothy Sullivan (32:51):
All right.
Well, Chris.
And John, it was so great totaste this sake with you.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
And CJ, we can't wait to haveyou back again soon.
A special thank you to all ofour listeners for tuning in, but
a special hello, hi, and extraspecial thank you to our
patrons.
(33:11):
We would not be here without thewonderful support from all our
patrons.
And if you would like to learnmore about supporting our show,
you can visitPatreon.com/SakeRevolution.com
to learn more.
John Puma (33:22):
and, well, we already told you you should check out
the show notes.
But, there's also a little shopat our, website,
SakeRevolution.Com, where youcan, uh, get some Sake
Revolution swag for you or the,the, uh, Budding sake lover in
your life.
so you check it out and see ifany of our merchandise appeals
to you so everybody on thatnote, let's grab a glass
(33:47):
remember to keep drinking sakeand Kanpai
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