July 13, 2024 • 29 mins
Episode 169. This week, we are returning to our series on sake vessels, but this time looking at sake serviceware in particular. We're focusing in on the Tokkuri, the workhorse carafe used for sake service across the world. Tokkuri carafes can be used to serve sake chilled, room temperature, and to warm it up as well. The materials used to make tokkuri run the gamut from metal to glass to wood, with the most popular being ceramic. However utilitarian, use of the tokkuri comes with some etiquette rules, too. Have you broken any of the Tokkuri rules? Listen in and let's find out! #sakerevolution
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Episode Transcript
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John Puma (00:21):
Hello, everybody.
And welcome to sake podcast.
I'm your host, John Puma fromthe Sake Notes.
Also, I'm the administrator atthe Internet Sake Discord, as
well as Reddit's r slash sakecommunity.
Timothy Sullivan (00:36):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I am a Sake Samurai.
I'm a sake educator, as well asthe founder of the Urban Sake
website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake and doingour best to make it fun and easy
to understand.
John Puma (00:53):
All things sake.
I love it.
On this show, we're goingthrough our search for all
things sake.
We have a lot of series that welike to do.
We go and we, we talk aboutdifferent rices.
We focus on differentprefectures and we have a series
where we talk about differentsake serving vessels.
(01:14):
You have tuned into one of thoseepisodes where we're going to
talk about another sake servingvessel, Timothy.
What do we have
Timothy Sullivan (01:21):
Yeah.
Well, it's interesting.
our sake vessels series has beenfocused Up until now on drinking
vessels, meaning the actual cupsthat we use, and we've had
Sakazuki, we've had Ochoko,we've had Guinomi, and today
we're going to take a little bitof a different tack.
We're going to be looking at aservice vessel.
(01:42):
So this is a vessel for pouringsake, and this is something that
Everybody has probably seen outin Japanese restaurants out and
about town.
We're going to be talking todayabout the tokkuri.
John Puma (01:55):
mhm,
Timothy Sullivan (01:56):
Now, John, you know what a tokkuri is, don't
you?
John Puma (01:59):
I do.
And, uh, I like that you said,like, it's something that
everybody's probably seen in theJapanese restaurant before,
because I definitely knew what aTokkuri was a long time before I
ever heard the word Tokkuri.
Timothy Sullivan (02:10):
Yes.
John Puma (02:12):
And I think that's probably the case for a lot of
people who, uh, who are gettinginterested in sake and have seen
these before, uh, uh, many, manytimes, I'm sure, uh, in various
restaurants.
how would you describe, what,what, what's, what is the
textbook definition of theTokkuri?
Timothy Sullivan (02:30):
Right.
Well, the tokkuri I oftendescribe it as a carafe for
pouring sake
John Puma (02:37):
Mmhmm.
Timothy Sullivan (02:37):
and it, it is almost a symbol of the sake
industry.
A lot of people who have sakebusinesses use a tokkuri in
their logo.
And if you'd like to see a photoof a classic tokkuri, visit our
show notes at sakerevolution.
com right now.
And you can see some photos ofwhat tokkuris look like, but
I'll do my best to describe it.
(02:59):
They are.
Tall and slender.
And one of the characteristicsof Tokkuri are the narrow neck.
So there's a narrow neck andthen they kind of flare out a
little bit.
the classic Tokkuri is made froma white porcelain or a white
ceramic and they're tall andslender carafts with a narrow
(03:20):
neck.
I think that's the best andeasiest way to describe what
Tokkuri are.
John Puma (03:24):
Yes, and based on that, I think there are probably
at least 50 to 100 peoplelistening right now who are
going, oh, it's the, yeah, that,okay.
Yeah, people have definitelyseen these.
Timothy Sullivan (03:39):
If you walk into your average sushi
restaurant anywhere in thecountry, you'll see these white
ceramic carafes sitting on thecounter, people pouring hot sake
from them, and they're soclassic
John Puma (03:55):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (03:56):
and so, you know, integral to the sake
experience.
You can buy them for as littleas three dollars or they go up
to very, very expensive ones.
And it is, it is a carafe.
It's for pouring sake, but notjust that.
It's also quite often used forheating sake.
(04:17):
So this is something that youwould fill, fill sake in the
carafe, the tokkuri, and you'dset it in a water bath.
And it's a vessel for warmingsake as well as pouring sake,
right?
John Puma (04:28):
That's exactly right.
In fact, I think the first timeI ever warmed my own sake, I
used that exact method.
because it is, of course,ceramic.
Ceramic is very resilient toheat.
And it also contains the heatreally well.
It insulates fairly well.
And so you can, you know, it'llkeep that sake warm, uh, inside
(04:49):
for a little bit.
Timothy Sullivan (04:50):
Yeah, so when you put a porcelain or ceramic
tokkuri into hot water, thewater actually warms the carafe
first, warms the tokkuri first,and then it warms the sake
inside.
So when you pull it out of thewater, you dab it off.
There's a lot of residual heatactually hanging out in the
vessel itself, and that keeps itwarm at the table.
(05:11):
So that's one of the advantagesof these, tokkuris.
Uh, let's talk about some of thematerials that they use.
We talked about ceramic already,like the classic white ceramic,
but you can find tokkuri indifferent materials as well.
have you seen any other types,John?
John Puma (05:28):
I actually own one that's made of glass.
yeah.
and I love it.
It's one of my favorite, um,intermediary pouring vessels.
Timothy Sullivan (05:39):
Yeah.
John Puma (05:40):
When I'm not, when I'm not pouring sake directly
from the bottle into the glass,I'll use that.
Primarily in my home, it getsused when guests are over.
Timothy Sullivan (05:49):
Oh,
John Puma (05:50):
Right, so when you want to pour a couple of
different sakes, you pour theminto the tokkuri and put those
on the table.
also if you have perhaps magnumsaround the house, which is rare,
but not unheard of.
Uh, it's an easy way to, to keepthat sake, keep that sake bottle
in the fridge.
And not on the table drawingwarming up and you can just pour
(06:11):
out a relatively small amountinto the tokkuri and bring that
to the table and then you canrefill it when you Need to and
it keeps the bottle fresh in thefridge
Timothy Sullivan (06:18):
Yeah, and it's a lot easier to pour from a
tokkuri into a small sake cupversus from a giant 1.
8 liter bottle.
John Puma (06:26):
Well, you know you get a little workout with the 1.
8 liter bottle, but yes, I thinkthat's Definitely a good idea,
especially as the night wears onyou Don't want anybody slipping
and then the sake is all overthe place and
Timothy Sullivan (06:36):
yeah, for sure.
So we've got the classicceramic, we have glass.
Uh, there's also sometimes theymake them in metal tin very
often, hammered tin.
And you also see them, I've seenthem in wood as well.
Now wood wouldn't be used forwarming sake, but it is a form
factor that I've seen beforewith the classic tall skinny
(07:00):
tokkuri with the narrow neck andthen the flared mouth.
I think that the shape is soiconic that people have made it
in all different materials.
John Puma (07:10):
I don't think I've ever seen one in wood before.
That's interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (07:14):
Yeah.
I've seen like a wood tokkuriand Ochoko set kind of carved
out of bamboo or something likethat.
So it's not, it's not common,but they make them in all
different materials.
So it's something to look outfor.
Now, the next thing to talkabout when it comes to tokkuri
is what are the sizes?
John Puma (07:29):
Hmm.
That is a good question.
I've never even, I've neverthought of the size of the
tokkuri as far as what kind of,are we talking like, there's
like physically how big is, or,or what kind of volume does it
hold?
Timothy Sullivan (07:41):
Yeah, what kind of volume does it
John Puma (07:42):
Okay.
And, and is there a standard?
Mm hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (07:45):
There is a
John Puma (07:46):
A ha! I knew it! And is this standard, uh, is this
standard perhaps calculated inGo?
Ah! So, Tim, for our, um,listeners at home who might not
have listened to Go.
(08:07):
Every episode in the Vesselseries, which we, we did talk
about Go, I believe in one ofthem.
Timothy Sullivan (08:12):
we did when we talked about the Masu, the M A S
U, Masu.
So the Masu is the, the squarewooden box.
And that has a base measurementof 180 milliliters.
Which is considered one go orone standard serving of sake.
And Tokkuri also come indifferent go measurements.
(08:33):
So very often there's a one goor two go, and it's either 180
ml or 360 ml.
And when you're in a restaurant,it is very common in Japan to
say, Oh, I want this sake, giveme a to go serving.
And that'll come in a largertokkuri with 360 ml.
(08:56):
And then you use that to poureverybody at the table.
John Puma (08:59):
Uh oh.
Timothy Sullivan (09:00):
So, You very often see them in either the 180
ml or the 360 ml.
Those are the two most commonsizes that you see.
John Puma (09:09):
So 180 matches up with, a one cup is exactly 180
milliliters.
Um, so that, that's excellent toknow.
And then imagine just two ofthose.
So
Timothy Sullivan (09:23):
It's also very often one cup.
It's uh, the smaller Tokkurisize is often 180 ml.
And you can also imagine it asone quarter of a standard sake
bottle size.
John Puma (09:36):
if you have four of those, you have done a whole
bottle of sake.
Timothy Sullivan (09:40):
You have done a whole
John Puma (09:41):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (09:41):
sake.
John Puma (09:44):
And they said I wasn't good at math.
I don't know.
Excellent.
Excellent.
Timothy Sullivan (09:51):
Yeah, so those are the sizes you can look for,
but I think there are a lot ofTokkuri Like made in China and
made elsewhere, and they mightnot stick strictly to those
measurements.
So you can get novelty sizes inall different sizes as well.
So I don't want anyone to thinkit's just limited to those.
(10:11):
But if you buy a Japanesetokkuri, very often they're sold
in, in those two sizes.
They're very common.
So if you see a smaller one,chances are it holds 180 ml.
John Puma (10:22):
we mentioned, you know, how tokkuri get used, in
restaurants, mostly, uh,restaurants here, domestically
restaurants in Japan.
I talked about how I use them inhouse.
do you ever have a chance to usetokkuri home?
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (10:37):
enjoy using tokkuri.
I have a couple very fine Aritaporcelain ones, some ceramic
ones.
And I use them both for hot andcold sake.
They're more associated with hotsake because as we mentioned,
you can take these ceramictokkuri and put them right in a
(10:57):
hot water bath and warm them up.
But you can also put them in thefridge and kind of chill them a
little bit and then use them toserve cold sake as well.
So I, I enjoy it.
And honestly, I use it often athome as a form of portion
control, where, you know, youwant to, you know, You wanna,
oh, you laugh.
John Puma (11:18):
Oh, no, I'm laughing.
Cause you're right.
Timothy Sullivan (11:22):
You know, we've talked so often about that
super yummy sake that you justkeep one more splash, one more
splash, one more splash, andthen you turn around and the
bottle's gone.
Whereas if you pour tokkuri at atime, you can measure and, I
think it slows your roll alittle bit and helps you enjoy
sake.
And I agree with you, I tend tobring the tokkuri out more often
(11:45):
when I have guests over and I'msharing sake with someone.
And it's a little more elegantto pour from a beautiful carafe
than it is from, the rough andtumble bottle itself.
So.
John Puma (11:55):
The rough and tumble bottle.
I'm still laughing about theportion control.
That's just, that is, that issuch a phenomenally, uh, like on
the nose.
Great use for it.
Oh, that's
Timothy Sullivan (12:09):
Yeah, so if, if any of our listeners are
curious about using a tokkurifor warming sake, please visit
our show notes again atsakerevolution.
com.
And we're going to have adownloadable PDF there that
shows you step by step how youcan warm sake at home using a
water bath and a tokkuri.
John Puma (12:27):
Excellent.
I love it.
Timothy Sullivan (12:29):
Also wanted to mention one final thing before
we move on to our tasting today,and that's a few words about
etiquette and polite service.
John Puma (12:39):
Ooh, okay.
Timothy Sullivan (12:40):
Yeah.
do you know the rules ofhandling your tokkuri?
John Puma (12:45):
so I'm gonna, crib some things I learned from a
previous episode on sakeetiquette that we've done, and
I'm going to say that I shouldnot be pouring my own.
Timothy Sullivan (12:56):
That's
John Puma (12:57):
that, is that something you want to tell me?
Uh, is that, is that not, isthat not where you're going?
Timothy Sullivan (13:02):
that wasn't where I was going
John Puma (13:04):
All right.
But, but true, but not, but notwhere we're going.
Okay.
Tim, where were we going?
Timothy Sullivan (13:10):
Well, when you have a tokkuri, this tall
slender carafe with the narrowneck.
In Japan, again, this is forJapanese etiquette.
You don't have to do this in theUS.
Every time, but I find when itcomes to etiquette, Japanese
etiquette related to sake, it'sbetter to know the proper way
(13:30):
and deviate when you feelcomfortable.
Uh, but I'm not saying everyonehas to pour sake this way, but
in Japan with a tokkuri in moreformal settings,
John Puma (13:40):
a lot of, uh,
Timothy Sullivan (13:41):
lead up,
John Puma (13:42):
yes, it's like really qualifying this one a lot.
Timothy Sullivan (13:49):
in Japan, if you want to be, The most polite
you can be when pouring sake,it's considered polite to hold
the tokkuri with two hands whenyou pour.
John Puma (13:58):
Ooh,
Timothy Sullivan (14:00):
Yes.
Yes.
One handed tokkuri pouring isconsidered more casual, a little
bit more friendly, a little bitmore, you know, uh, familiar.
So if you want to show respectto the person you're pouring to,
in Japanese culture, theexpectation is you would Hold
the tokkuri with one hand andbalance with the other hand and
(14:22):
your both hands are touching thetokkuri when you pour.
So that's the most formal andmost polite way.
John Puma (14:28):
Hmm.
You know, when you say it likethat, I'm like, of course, you
know, it makes sense after you,after you hear it.
Um, but I would not have, uh, Iwould not have come up with
that.
Cause I don't think we actuallywent over that on our etiquette
episode.
So I'm learning something newtoday.
Timothy Sullivan (14:43):
Yeah, and I have another piece of etiquette
specifically for tokkuri andone, one challenge with tokkuri
is that when you've been pouringfrom them, you don't always know
What's left inside becausethey're,
John Puma (14:58):
You're absolutely right.
Timothy Sullivan (14:59):
So there's two things you should not do in
polite company.
The,
John Puma (15:05):
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan (15:06):
the, if
John Puma (15:06):
right, Tim.
Thing number one, what do I notdo at the light company with my
Timothy Sullivan (15:11):
so you don't want to peer into the tokkuri
like you're looking through akaleidoscope,
John Puma (15:19):
Okay.
So, so don't, don't hold it upand kind of, okay,
Timothy Sullivan (15:23):
don't hold the opening up to your eye and try
to see how much liquid is leftin there.
That's considered bad manners.
John Puma (15:29):
okay.
That makes sense.
I can see that.
Timothy Sullivan (15:32):
yeah, And the other thing that's kind of bad
form is when you pick up thetokkuri and you hold it next to
your ear and you ring it backand forth like a bell.
To hear any sloshing.
John Puma (15:48):
it also makes sense.
I guess I don't think it everoccurred to me to try that.
Um, there are situations though,and I do wonder how much is left
in there because as we pointedout earlier, these are generally
speaking, porcelain.
They are opaque.
They have weight to them bynature of being porcelain.
(16:09):
How do you know how much is leftin there?
Timothy Sullivan (16:12):
I have an answer to this question.
John Puma (16:14):
I thought you might.
Timothy Sullivan (16:15):
I actually asked a brewer once.
I'm like, okay, I know I'm notsupposed to peer inside with my
eye.
I'm not supposed to shake it.
How do I know how much is leftin?
And the answer is a littleunsatisfactory, but you're
supposed to know by the weight.
When you pick it up, you shouldknow the weight of your tokkuri
empty roughly.
(16:36):
And then you, when it's gettingnear empty.
You should know based on theweight.
That was the
John Puma (16:45):
you need to study your tokkuri before party.
Timothy Sullivan (16:51):
Puma, I have one more.
One more no no when it comes totokkuri.
John Puma (16:56):
One more no no I'm ready for.
What do I not do with my
Timothy Sullivan (16:59):
So if you're having a party with many people
and you have multiple tokkurisout on the table, if you have a
little sake left in this one, alittle sake left in this one,
one thing you should never do ispour one into the other and kind
of pour
John Puma (17:14):
Hmm.
Consolidate.
Timothy Sullivan (17:16):
Yes.
Again, among friends, no one'sgoing to care, but if you're in
a more formal situation or maybea business dinner, that would be
viewed as bad form as well.
John Puma (17:27):
If I am out to dinner with a Japanese brewer, I should
definitely not do that.
heh heh heh heh heh heh heh hehNoted.
Timothy Sullivan (17:36):
Yes.
John Puma (17:37):
Uh, well, alright, now this was actually a lot of
fun.
I was like, there's a lot ofstuff about tokkuri that I
didn't know going into thisepisode.
Clearly.
Timothy Sullivan (17:46):
Yes.
And of course, never drink fromyour tokkuri.
also
John Puma (17:50):
goes without saying, because so, so the one thing
that I was like, so typicallywhen we do this series, what we
do is we, we take the sake we'regoing to be having that week and
we pour it into the vessel ofthe week.
And then we also pour it intothe wine glass and try to see
kind of where those bring us inthis case, since this is an
(18:11):
intermediary device.
What are we doing?
Timothy Sullivan (18:14):
Yeah.
I think we should just put oursake into our tokkuri and enjoy
it out of our wine as we usuallydo.
John Puma (18:22):
Excellent.
That sounds great.
And what is that sake?
You might be asking yourself?
Well, we've got the answer foryou right here.
Uh, this week out of ourTokkuri, we wanted to pick
something that we felt would gopretty well cold, but also
pretty well warmed in order tokind of keep in with the theme
of the Tokkuri, which canfacilitate both options.
(18:43):
So we've got the, Choryo,Tokubetsu Junmai Omachi.
This is from Nara Prefecture andthe wrinkle in this one, the
interesting thing about this oneis that it's a 10 year cold aged
sake.
So it's, it was actually, brewedback in 2013 and the label on,
(19:03):
I'm sorry, the label on thebottle that says 2013, it was
only bottled.
In 2023,
Timothy Sullivan (19:10):
hmm.
John Puma (19:11):
which is very interesting.
It was battled back in June.
again, this is a Omanchi.
now the, another interestingthing about it actually is the
Omanchi is from Takashima inOkayama Prefecture, so the, The
home of omachi, breweries oftenlike to, to, to mention when
their, when their omachi hascome from Okayama because that's
(19:31):
the, the, the, the home.
Um, this has been milled down to68%, which is, Very specific.
Uh, the sake meter value is,plus 2.
5 and the acidity is 1.
4.
Now with a 10 year cold agedOmachi, Tim, what do you think
(19:52):
we're going to experience here?
Timothy Sullivan (19:54):
I don't really know.
I'm so excited to try this.
I have not had this sake before,but we have had Choryo brand on
the show before, and they'rereally, really well known for
their taru sake or their cedarbarrel aged sake.
So I think we featured theircedar taru before.
John Puma (20:15):
in our Taru episode.
Timothy Sullivan (20:17):
And I know, John, you're a big fan of
omachi.
John Puma (20:20):
I am.
Timothy Sullivan (20:22):
uh, so.
I'm excited to try this.
I've never had this sake before.
And I also want to mention thatfor a 10 year cold aged sake,
the price for this was prettyreasonable and affordable,
wasn't it?
John Puma (20:37):
Yeah, it was actually, almost alarmingly
inexpensive.
I'm going to
Timothy Sullivan (20:43):
Could we give, could we give a range for our
listeners?
I'm sure they'll be curious.
John Puma (20:47):
this, sake was under 30 in New York, Manhattan.
Timothy Sullivan (20:52):
Usually aging a sake by the brewery tends to
add to the cost.
So we'll have to see.
I'm going to expect a little bitof rice forward flavors,
probably.
And some, maybe some caramelizednotes from the aging, even
though it's cold storage, theremight be some caramelization of
the sugars over those 10 years.
(21:13):
I have mine prepared chilled.
So I'm going to try it chilledtoday.
Uh, but I'm so excited to getthis into the tokkuri.
John Puma (21:21):
Excellent.
Um, by the way, I am right withyou.
I think that we're going to begetting a little bit of that
caramelization.
Not as much, nothing, nothinglike you would expect for a 10
year old sake.
and, it's going to be, there'sgoing to be a richness and depth
to it.
That, that's kind of what I'mthinking.
I know I'm really taking reallytaking a big
Timothy Sullivan (21:40):
So John, should we get this into our
tokkuris?
John Puma (21:43):
Let's do it.
Timothy Sullivan (21:44):
Okay.
John Puma (21:45):
This is gonna be tricky.
I've never poured into a Tokkurion the show before.
Timothy Sullivan (21:51):
All right.
Well, I'm ready to,
John Puma (21:55):
All right, here we go.
now I'm going to make the secondjourney from the Tokkuri
Timothy Sullivan (22:02):
turi into the glass.
Here we go.
John Puma (22:08):
Uh, so one thing I've learned about this is that
Tokkuri is pretty quiet.
Pouring into the Tokkuri wasvery quiet.
Pouring out of the Tokkuri waspretty quiet.
It's a stealthy vessel that wehave here.
Timothy Sullivan (22:23):
Alright, let's give this a smell.
Mmm.
Okay.
It smells really ricey.
John Puma (22:29):
It really, really does.
Um, but before we talk about.
That smell.
I do want to point out that thisdoes not look like a koshu.
Timothy Sullivan (22:39):
No, it's got some, a hint of yellow to
John Puma (22:42):
Right.
If you, if you told me this wasjust like Moroka, I'd be like,
okay.
Yeah.
Um, but it, it doesn't lookaged, but that's that cold
storage.
Timothy Sullivan (22:54):
Mmm.
John Puma (22:56):
You're right about that aroma, though.
It is so, um,
Timothy Sullivan (23:01):
Yeah.
it almost smells, instead ofrice, it almost smells like
barley.
You know, it smells like verygrain forward.
John Puma (23:08):
Yeah, and oh, like, like toasted.
Timothy Sullivan (23:11):
Mmm.
John Puma (23:11):
yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (23:12):
Okay.
Let's give it a taste.
Well, I know, John, you and Ihave improved a lot since 2013,
so I hope this sake has improveda lot as well.
John Puma (23:22):
okay.
So my very bold prediction ofdepth has, has maybe.
come through.
It's a very, it's a lot going onhere.
But it still has a lot of that,and maybe it's a power of
suggestion Tim.
But that that toasty barley kindof thing is present on the on
(23:43):
the tongue.
Timothy Sullivan (23:44):
Yeah.
John Puma (23:45):
some of that.
Timothy Sullivan (23:46):
For me, I have a lot of, I mean, you and I have
had this debate.
Is it caramel?
Is it caramel?
But caramel slash caramel.
John Puma (23:56):
Yes.
I'm saying this sake is both.
Timothy Sullivan (24:00):
Yes.
So there, there's definitely alittle bit of sweetness there,
but it's like a caramelsweetness and.
For me, the aroma was a littlemore pronounced with that barley
toasted rice aroma.
On the palate, it's a littlemore reserved and there's a,
(24:21):
there's a trace of sweetnessthere, but it feels toasted and
caramelized.
Yeah.
Very interesting sake.
Hmm.
John Puma (24:30):
you told me that this was perhaps a three year regular
age sake, that would totallytrack.
So 10 year cold age, I thinkyou're meeting at certain point,
right?
But it definitely, tastes aged.
It definitely tastes like koshuBut I cannot help but wonder,
(24:52):
what does this taste like warmedup?
Because that might be a placewhere this can shine.
I think that room temperatureand warm is where, uh, is where
your, your older, your, your agesake sometimes, you know, gets,
gets a little burst of life.
I think it's outside of thescope of what we're doing today
on the show, but I'm verycurious about what that might
(25:14):
look like and might have to dosome personal experiments in the
future.
Timothy Sullivan (25:18):
Yeah.
I think without a doubt, thissake would fare very well for
warming up and the tokkuri isthe perfect vessel for doing
that.
So, I think that warm wouldbring out more of a, my
prediction would be a little bitof a spicy note.
(25:39):
Like, um, when the caramelflavors get a little bit warmed
up, sometimes you can get a hintof like, almost like baking
spices and things like that in,in koshu sake.
And I think that we would getsome of that here for sure.
John Puma (25:54):
That sounds like a pretty, uh, a decent prediction.
I think that that I can see thathappening.
Timothy Sullivan (26:02):
Yeah.
And this style of sake generallylike aged, cold aged for 10
years.
And this is a Tokubetsu JunmaiOmachi again, to remind our
listeners, this type of sake,this profile is generally really
good for warming.
So you can really look for, uh,an expansion of those ricey
(26:26):
flavors.
And I think the Omachi profilewould come forward even more
when you give it a gentlewarming.
John Puma (26:32):
Yeah.
I think that the, and thatkoshu, the caramel is kind of,
in my mind, it's, it's gettingin the way of that omachi note
that I, that I love so much.
It's hard to detect in the sakebecause it's, there's so much
more going on and maybe it'sjust hiding and needs a little,
a little warmth to bring it out.
Timothy Sullivan (26:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, warming in general,tends to bring the alcohol notes
forward and the warmingsensation in general.
And I think in this case, it'sgoing to bring the rice a little
bit forward as well.
John Puma (27:08):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (27:08):
Well, John, did you learn something about
tokkuri in this episode?
John Puma (27:14):
Tim, I learned a lot about Tokkuri in episode, mostly
about etiquette in Tokkuri.
But you know, what are you goingto do?
Uh, it was, uh, this was fun.
Uh, the Vessel series is always,uh, is always a good time for
me.
I always have fun with these.
Timothy Sullivan (27:27):
Yeah.
Well, you can't go wrong with alittle etiquette.
John Puma (27:30):
Never, a little etiquette goes a long way.
Timothy Sullivan (27:33):
I should have said that.
A little etiquette goes a longway.
John Puma (27:36):
People remember when you don't do the etiquette,
right, they forget when you doit, right.
Timothy Sullivan (27:43):
I think it's, it's worthwhile to have a few
tokkuri in your house, again,for portion control and for
serving your guests.
And for warming sake, it's like,it's a Swiss army knife of, of
sake vessels.
I think it does so much.
All right.
Well, John, it was so nice totaste with you.
This sake was so interestingthat we enjoyed today.
(28:05):
it's approaching omachi from adifferent point of view, but I
really enjoyed tasting it.
And, uh, it was really, reallyinteresting to have that from
our Tokkuris.
I want to thank our listenersfor tuning in.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We're so glad you're here.
And a special hello and thankyou to our patrons as well.
Sake Revolution is a listenersupported show.
(28:27):
And if you would like to learnmore about joining our community
at Patreon and supporting theshow, please visit
Patreon.com/SakeRevolution tolearn more.
John Puma (28:38):
and there's another really great way to support the
show.
You can go out there and reviewus on Apple podcasts or any
other podcast platform that youmight interact with, uh, gets
the word out about the showhelps, uh, the algorithm find us
so that when people are lookingfor shows about sake, we become
a little bit easier for them toget ahold of.
So on that note, Timothy.
(29:00):
Thank you very much for comingby today.
Um, don't forget to raise yourtokkuri two hands, two hands,
Tim, two hands.
Remember to keep drinking sakeand kanpai! kanpai.
Hello, everybody.
And welcome to sake podcast.
I'm your host, John Puma fromthe Sake Notes.
Also, I'm the administrator atthe Internet Sake Discord, as
well as Reddit's r slash sakecommunity.
Timothy Sullivan (00:36):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I am a Sake Samurai.
I'm a sake educator, as well asthe founder of the Urban Sake
website.
And every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake and doingour best to make it fun and easy
to understand.
John Puma (00:53):
All things sake.
I love it.
On this show, we're goingthrough our search for all
things sake.
We have a lot of series that welike to do.
We go and we, we talk aboutdifferent rices.
We focus on differentprefectures and we have a series
where we talk about differentsake serving vessels.
(01:14):
You have tuned into one of thoseepisodes where we're going to
talk about another sake servingvessel, Timothy.
What do we have
Timothy Sullivan (01:21):
Yeah.
Well, it's interesting.
our sake vessels series has beenfocused Up until now on drinking
vessels, meaning the actual cupsthat we use, and we've had
Sakazuki, we've had Ochoko,we've had Guinomi, and today
we're going to take a little bitof a different tack.
We're going to be looking at aservice vessel.
(01:42):
So this is a vessel for pouringsake, and this is something that
Everybody has probably seen outin Japanese restaurants out and
about town.
We're going to be talking todayabout the tokkuri.
John Puma (01:55):
mhm,
Timothy Sullivan (01:56):
Now, John, you know what a tokkuri is, don't
you?
John Puma (01:59):
I do.
And, uh, I like that you said,like, it's something that
everybody's probably seen in theJapanese restaurant before,
because I definitely knew what aTokkuri was a long time before I
ever heard the word Tokkuri.
Timothy Sullivan (02:10):
Yes.
John Puma (02:12):
And I think that's probably the case for a lot of
people who, uh, who are gettinginterested in sake and have seen
these before, uh, uh, many, manytimes, I'm sure, uh, in various
restaurants.
how would you describe, what,what, what's, what is the
textbook definition of theTokkuri?
Timothy Sullivan (02:30):
Right.
Well, the tokkuri I oftendescribe it as a carafe for
pouring sake
John Puma (02:37):
Mmhmm.
Timothy Sullivan (02:37):
and it, it is almost a symbol of the sake
industry.
A lot of people who have sakebusinesses use a tokkuri in
their logo.
And if you'd like to see a photoof a classic tokkuri, visit our
show notes at sakerevolution.
com right now.
And you can see some photos ofwhat tokkuris look like, but
I'll do my best to describe it.
(02:59):
They are.
Tall and slender.
And one of the characteristicsof Tokkuri are the narrow neck.
So there's a narrow neck andthen they kind of flare out a
little bit.
the classic Tokkuri is made froma white porcelain or a white
ceramic and they're tall andslender carafts with a narrow
(03:20):
neck.
I think that's the best andeasiest way to describe what
Tokkuri are.
John Puma (03:24):
Yes, and based on that, I think there are probably
at least 50 to 100 peoplelistening right now who are
going, oh, it's the, yeah, that,okay.
Yeah, people have definitelyseen these.
Timothy Sullivan (03:39):
If you walk into your average sushi
restaurant anywhere in thecountry, you'll see these white
ceramic carafes sitting on thecounter, people pouring hot sake
from them, and they're soclassic
John Puma (03:55):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (03:56):
and so, you know, integral to the sake
experience.
You can buy them for as littleas three dollars or they go up
to very, very expensive ones.
And it is, it is a carafe.
It's for pouring sake, but notjust that.
It's also quite often used forheating sake.
(04:17):
So this is something that youwould fill, fill sake in the
carafe, the tokkuri, and you'dset it in a water bath.
And it's a vessel for warmingsake as well as pouring sake,
right?
John Puma (04:28):
That's exactly right.
In fact, I think the first timeI ever warmed my own sake, I
used that exact method.
because it is, of course,ceramic.
Ceramic is very resilient toheat.
And it also contains the heatreally well.
It insulates fairly well.
And so you can, you know, it'llkeep that sake warm, uh, inside
(04:49):
for a little bit.
Timothy Sullivan (04:50):
Yeah, so when you put a porcelain or ceramic
tokkuri into hot water, thewater actually warms the carafe
first, warms the tokkuri first,and then it warms the sake
inside.
So when you pull it out of thewater, you dab it off.
There's a lot of residual heatactually hanging out in the
vessel itself, and that keeps itwarm at the table.
(05:11):
So that's one of the advantagesof these, tokkuris.
Uh, let's talk about some of thematerials that they use.
We talked about ceramic already,like the classic white ceramic,
but you can find tokkuri indifferent materials as well.
have you seen any other types,John?
John Puma (05:28):
I actually own one that's made of glass.
yeah.
and I love it.
It's one of my favorite, um,intermediary pouring vessels.
Timothy Sullivan (05:39):
Yeah.
John Puma (05:40):
When I'm not, when I'm not pouring sake directly
from the bottle into the glass,I'll use that.
Primarily in my home, it getsused when guests are over.
Timothy Sullivan (05:49):
Oh,
John Puma (05:50):
Right, so when you want to pour a couple of
different sakes, you pour theminto the tokkuri and put those
on the table.
also if you have perhaps magnumsaround the house, which is rare,
but not unheard of.
Uh, it's an easy way to, to keepthat sake, keep that sake bottle
in the fridge.
And not on the table drawingwarming up and you can just pour
(06:11):
out a relatively small amountinto the tokkuri and bring that
to the table and then you canrefill it when you Need to and
it keeps the bottle fresh in thefridge
Timothy Sullivan (06:18):
Yeah, and it's a lot easier to pour from a
tokkuri into a small sake cupversus from a giant 1.
8 liter bottle.
John Puma (06:26):
Well, you know you get a little workout with the 1.
8 liter bottle, but yes, I thinkthat's Definitely a good idea,
especially as the night wears onyou Don't want anybody slipping
and then the sake is all overthe place and
Timothy Sullivan (06:36):
yeah, for sure.
So we've got the classicceramic, we have glass.
Uh, there's also sometimes theymake them in metal tin very
often, hammered tin.
And you also see them, I've seenthem in wood as well.
Now wood wouldn't be used forwarming sake, but it is a form
factor that I've seen beforewith the classic tall skinny
(07:00):
tokkuri with the narrow neck andthen the flared mouth.
I think that the shape is soiconic that people have made it
in all different materials.
John Puma (07:10):
I don't think I've ever seen one in wood before.
That's interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (07:14):
Yeah.
I've seen like a wood tokkuriand Ochoko set kind of carved
out of bamboo or something likethat.
So it's not, it's not common,but they make them in all
different materials.
So it's something to look outfor.
Now, the next thing to talkabout when it comes to tokkuri
is what are the sizes?
John Puma (07:29):
Hmm.
That is a good question.
I've never even, I've neverthought of the size of the
tokkuri as far as what kind of,are we talking like, there's
like physically how big is, or,or what kind of volume does it
hold?
Timothy Sullivan (07:41):
Yeah, what kind of volume does it
John Puma (07:42):
Okay.
And, and is there a standard?
Mm hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (07:45):
There is a
John Puma (07:46):
A ha! I knew it! And is this standard, uh, is this
standard perhaps calculated inGo?
Ah! So, Tim, for our, um,listeners at home who might not
have listened to Go.
(08:07):
Every episode in the Vesselseries, which we, we did talk
about Go, I believe in one ofthem.
Timothy Sullivan (08:12):
we did when we talked about the Masu, the M A S
U, Masu.
So the Masu is the, the squarewooden box.
And that has a base measurementof 180 milliliters.
Which is considered one go orone standard serving of sake.
And Tokkuri also come indifferent go measurements.
(08:33):
So very often there's a one goor two go, and it's either 180
ml or 360 ml.
And when you're in a restaurant,it is very common in Japan to
say, Oh, I want this sake, giveme a to go serving.
And that'll come in a largertokkuri with 360 ml.
(08:56):
And then you use that to poureverybody at the table.
John Puma (08:59):
Uh oh.
Timothy Sullivan (09:00):
So, You very often see them in either the 180
ml or the 360 ml.
Those are the two most commonsizes that you see.
John Puma (09:09):
So 180 matches up with, a one cup is exactly 180
milliliters.
Um, so that, that's excellent toknow.
And then imagine just two ofthose.
So
Timothy Sullivan (09:23):
It's also very often one cup.
It's uh, the smaller Tokkurisize is often 180 ml.
And you can also imagine it asone quarter of a standard sake
bottle size.
John Puma (09:36):
if you have four of those, you have done a whole
bottle of sake.
Timothy Sullivan (09:40):
You have done a whole
John Puma (09:41):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (09:41):
sake.
John Puma (09:44):
And they said I wasn't good at math.
I don't know.
Excellent.
Excellent.
Timothy Sullivan (09:51):
Yeah, so those are the sizes you can look for,
but I think there are a lot ofTokkuri Like made in China and
made elsewhere, and they mightnot stick strictly to those
measurements.
So you can get novelty sizes inall different sizes as well.
So I don't want anyone to thinkit's just limited to those.
(10:11):
But if you buy a Japanesetokkuri, very often they're sold
in, in those two sizes.
They're very common.
So if you see a smaller one,chances are it holds 180 ml.
John Puma (10:22):
we mentioned, you know, how tokkuri get used, in
restaurants, mostly, uh,restaurants here, domestically
restaurants in Japan.
I talked about how I use them inhouse.
do you ever have a chance to usetokkuri home?
Mm
Timothy Sullivan (10:37):
enjoy using tokkuri.
I have a couple very fine Aritaporcelain ones, some ceramic
ones.
And I use them both for hot andcold sake.
They're more associated with hotsake because as we mentioned,
you can take these ceramictokkuri and put them right in a
(10:57):
hot water bath and warm them up.
But you can also put them in thefridge and kind of chill them a
little bit and then use them toserve cold sake as well.
So I, I enjoy it.
And honestly, I use it often athome as a form of portion
control, where, you know, youwant to, you know, You wanna,
oh, you laugh.
John Puma (11:18):
Oh, no, I'm laughing.
Cause you're right.
Timothy Sullivan (11:22):
You know, we've talked so often about that
super yummy sake that you justkeep one more splash, one more
splash, one more splash, andthen you turn around and the
bottle's gone.
Whereas if you pour tokkuri at atime, you can measure and, I
think it slows your roll alittle bit and helps you enjoy
sake.
And I agree with you, I tend tobring the tokkuri out more often
(11:45):
when I have guests over and I'msharing sake with someone.
And it's a little more elegantto pour from a beautiful carafe
than it is from, the rough andtumble bottle itself.
So.
John Puma (11:55):
The rough and tumble bottle.
I'm still laughing about theportion control.
That's just, that is, that issuch a phenomenally, uh, like on
the nose.
Great use for it.
Oh, that's
Timothy Sullivan (12:09):
Yeah, so if, if any of our listeners are
curious about using a tokkurifor warming sake, please visit
our show notes again atsakerevolution.
com.
And we're going to have adownloadable PDF there that
shows you step by step how youcan warm sake at home using a
water bath and a tokkuri.
John Puma (12:27):
Excellent.
I love it.
Timothy Sullivan (12:29):
Also wanted to mention one final thing before
we move on to our tasting today,and that's a few words about
etiquette and polite service.
John Puma (12:39):
Ooh, okay.
Timothy Sullivan (12:40):
Yeah.
do you know the rules ofhandling your tokkuri?
John Puma (12:45):
so I'm gonna, crib some things I learned from a
previous episode on sakeetiquette that we've done, and
I'm going to say that I shouldnot be pouring my own.
Timothy Sullivan (12:56):
That's
John Puma (12:57):
that, is that something you want to tell me?
Uh, is that, is that not, isthat not where you're going?
Timothy Sullivan (13:02):
that wasn't where I was going
John Puma (13:04):
All right.
But, but true, but not, but notwhere we're going.
Okay.
Tim, where were we going?
Timothy Sullivan (13:10):
Well, when you have a tokkuri, this tall
slender carafe with the narrowneck.
In Japan, again, this is forJapanese etiquette.
You don't have to do this in theUS.
Every time, but I find when itcomes to etiquette, Japanese
etiquette related to sake, it'sbetter to know the proper way
(13:30):
and deviate when you feelcomfortable.
Uh, but I'm not saying everyonehas to pour sake this way, but
in Japan with a tokkuri in moreformal settings,
John Puma (13:40):
a lot of, uh,
Timothy Sullivan (13:41):
lead up,
John Puma (13:42):
yes, it's like really qualifying this one a lot.
Timothy Sullivan (13:49):
in Japan, if you want to be, The most polite
you can be when pouring sake,it's considered polite to hold
the tokkuri with two hands whenyou pour.
John Puma (13:58):
Ooh,
Timothy Sullivan (14:00):
Yes.
Yes.
One handed tokkuri pouring isconsidered more casual, a little
bit more friendly, a little bitmore, you know, uh, familiar.
So if you want to show respectto the person you're pouring to,
in Japanese culture, theexpectation is you would Hold
the tokkuri with one hand andbalance with the other hand and
(14:22):
your both hands are touching thetokkuri when you pour.
So that's the most formal andmost polite way.
John Puma (14:28):
Hmm.
You know, when you say it likethat, I'm like, of course, you
know, it makes sense after you,after you hear it.
Um, but I would not have, uh, Iwould not have come up with
that.
Cause I don't think we actuallywent over that on our etiquette
episode.
So I'm learning something newtoday.
Timothy Sullivan (14:43):
Yeah, and I have another piece of etiquette
specifically for tokkuri andone, one challenge with tokkuri
is that when you've been pouringfrom them, you don't always know
What's left inside becausethey're,
John Puma (14:58):
You're absolutely right.
Timothy Sullivan (14:59):
So there's two things you should not do in
polite company.
The,
John Puma (15:05):
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan (15:06):
the, if
John Puma (15:06):
right, Tim.
Thing number one, what do I notdo at the light company with my
Timothy Sullivan (15:11):
so you don't want to peer into the tokkuri
like you're looking through akaleidoscope,
John Puma (15:19):
Okay.
So, so don't, don't hold it upand kind of, okay,
Timothy Sullivan (15:23):
don't hold the opening up to your eye and try
to see how much liquid is leftin there.
That's considered bad manners.
John Puma (15:29):
okay.
That makes sense.
I can see that.
Timothy Sullivan (15:32):
yeah, And the other thing that's kind of bad
form is when you pick up thetokkuri and you hold it next to
your ear and you ring it backand forth like a bell.
To hear any sloshing.
John Puma (15:48):
it also makes sense.
I guess I don't think it everoccurred to me to try that.
Um, there are situations though,and I do wonder how much is left
in there because as we pointedout earlier, these are generally
speaking, porcelain.
They are opaque.
They have weight to them bynature of being porcelain.
(16:09):
How do you know how much is leftin there?
Timothy Sullivan (16:12):
I have an answer to this question.
John Puma (16:14):
I thought you might.
Timothy Sullivan (16:15):
I actually asked a brewer once.
I'm like, okay, I know I'm notsupposed to peer inside with my
eye.
I'm not supposed to shake it.
How do I know how much is leftin?
And the answer is a littleunsatisfactory, but you're
supposed to know by the weight.
When you pick it up, you shouldknow the weight of your tokkuri
empty roughly.
(16:36):
And then you, when it's gettingnear empty.
You should know based on theweight.
That was the
John Puma (16:45):
you need to study your tokkuri before party.
Timothy Sullivan (16:51):
Puma, I have one more.
One more no no when it comes totokkuri.
John Puma (16:56):
One more no no I'm ready for.
What do I not do with my
Timothy Sullivan (16:59):
So if you're having a party with many people
and you have multiple tokkurisout on the table, if you have a
little sake left in this one, alittle sake left in this one,
one thing you should never do ispour one into the other and kind
of pour
John Puma (17:14):
Hmm.
Consolidate.
Timothy Sullivan (17:16):
Yes.
Again, among friends, no one'sgoing to care, but if you're in
a more formal situation or maybea business dinner, that would be
viewed as bad form as well.
John Puma (17:27):
If I am out to dinner with a Japanese brewer, I should
definitely not do that.
heh heh heh heh heh heh heh hehNoted.
Timothy Sullivan (17:36):
Yes.
John Puma (17:37):
Uh, well, alright, now this was actually a lot of
fun.
I was like, there's a lot ofstuff about tokkuri that I
didn't know going into thisepisode.
Clearly.
Timothy Sullivan (17:46):
Yes.
And of course, never drink fromyour tokkuri.
also
John Puma (17:50):
goes without saying, because so, so the one thing
that I was like, so typicallywhen we do this series, what we
do is we, we take the sake we'regoing to be having that week and
we pour it into the vessel ofthe week.
And then we also pour it intothe wine glass and try to see
kind of where those bring us inthis case, since this is an
(18:11):
intermediary device.
What are we doing?
Timothy Sullivan (18:14):
Yeah.
I think we should just put oursake into our tokkuri and enjoy
it out of our wine as we usuallydo.
John Puma (18:22):
Excellent.
That sounds great.
And what is that sake?
You might be asking yourself?
Well, we've got the answer foryou right here.
Uh, this week out of ourTokkuri, we wanted to pick
something that we felt would gopretty well cold, but also
pretty well warmed in order tokind of keep in with the theme
of the Tokkuri, which canfacilitate both options.
(18:43):
So we've got the, Choryo,Tokubetsu Junmai Omachi.
This is from Nara Prefecture andthe wrinkle in this one, the
interesting thing about this oneis that it's a 10 year cold aged
sake.
So it's, it was actually, brewedback in 2013 and the label on,
(19:03):
I'm sorry, the label on thebottle that says 2013, it was
only bottled.
In 2023,
Timothy Sullivan (19:10):
hmm.
John Puma (19:11):
which is very interesting.
It was battled back in June.
again, this is a Omanchi.
now the, another interestingthing about it actually is the
Omanchi is from Takashima inOkayama Prefecture, so the, The
home of omachi, breweries oftenlike to, to, to mention when
their, when their omachi hascome from Okayama because that's
(19:31):
the, the, the, the home.
Um, this has been milled down to68%, which is, Very specific.
Uh, the sake meter value is,plus 2.
5 and the acidity is 1.
4.
Now with a 10 year cold agedOmachi, Tim, what do you think
(19:52):
we're going to experience here?
Timothy Sullivan (19:54):
I don't really know.
I'm so excited to try this.
I have not had this sake before,but we have had Choryo brand on
the show before, and they'rereally, really well known for
their taru sake or their cedarbarrel aged sake.
So I think we featured theircedar taru before.
John Puma (20:15):
in our Taru episode.
Timothy Sullivan (20:17):
And I know, John, you're a big fan of
omachi.
John Puma (20:20):
I am.
Timothy Sullivan (20:22):
uh, so.
I'm excited to try this.
I've never had this sake before.
And I also want to mention thatfor a 10 year cold aged sake,
the price for this was prettyreasonable and affordable,
wasn't it?
John Puma (20:37):
Yeah, it was actually, almost alarmingly
inexpensive.
I'm going to
Timothy Sullivan (20:43):
Could we give, could we give a range for our
listeners?
I'm sure they'll be curious.
John Puma (20:47):
this, sake was under 30 in New York, Manhattan.
Timothy Sullivan (20:52):
Usually aging a sake by the brewery tends to
add to the cost.
So we'll have to see.
I'm going to expect a little bitof rice forward flavors,
probably.
And some, maybe some caramelizednotes from the aging, even
though it's cold storage, theremight be some caramelization of
the sugars over those 10 years.
(21:13):
I have mine prepared chilled.
So I'm going to try it chilledtoday.
Uh, but I'm so excited to getthis into the tokkuri.
John Puma (21:21):
Excellent.
Um, by the way, I am right withyou.
I think that we're going to begetting a little bit of that
caramelization.
Not as much, nothing, nothinglike you would expect for a 10
year old sake.
and, it's going to be, there'sgoing to be a richness and depth
to it.
That, that's kind of what I'mthinking.
I know I'm really taking reallytaking a big
Timothy Sullivan (21:40):
So John, should we get this into our
tokkuris?
John Puma (21:43):
Let's do it.
Timothy Sullivan (21:44):
Okay.
John Puma (21:45):
This is gonna be tricky.
I've never poured into a Tokkurion the show before.
Timothy Sullivan (21:51):
All right.
Well, I'm ready to,
John Puma (21:55):
All right, here we go.
now I'm going to make the secondjourney from the Tokkuri
Timothy Sullivan (22:02):
turi into the glass.
Here we go.
John Puma (22:08):
Uh, so one thing I've learned about this is that
Tokkuri is pretty quiet.
Pouring into the Tokkuri wasvery quiet.
Pouring out of the Tokkuri waspretty quiet.
It's a stealthy vessel that wehave here.
Timothy Sullivan (22:23):
Alright, let's give this a smell.
Mmm.
Okay.
It smells really ricey.
John Puma (22:29):
It really, really does.
Um, but before we talk about.
That smell.
I do want to point out that thisdoes not look like a koshu.
Timothy Sullivan (22:39):
No, it's got some, a hint of yellow to
John Puma (22:42):
Right.
If you, if you told me this wasjust like Moroka, I'd be like,
okay.
Yeah.
Um, but it, it doesn't lookaged, but that's that cold
storage.
Timothy Sullivan (22:54):
Mmm.
John Puma (22:56):
You're right about that aroma, though.
It is so, um,
Timothy Sullivan (23:01):
Yeah.
it almost smells, instead ofrice, it almost smells like
barley.
You know, it smells like verygrain forward.
John Puma (23:08):
Yeah, and oh, like, like toasted.
Timothy Sullivan (23:11):
Mmm.
John Puma (23:11):
yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (23:12):
Okay.
Let's give it a taste.
Well, I know, John, you and Ihave improved a lot since 2013,
so I hope this sake has improveda lot as well.
John Puma (23:22):
okay.
So my very bold prediction ofdepth has, has maybe.
come through.
It's a very, it's a lot going onhere.
But it still has a lot of that,and maybe it's a power of
suggestion Tim.
But that that toasty barley kindof thing is present on the on
(23:43):
the tongue.
Timothy Sullivan (23:44):
Yeah.
John Puma (23:45):
some of that.
Timothy Sullivan (23:46):
For me, I have a lot of, I mean, you and I have
had this debate.
Is it caramel?
Is it caramel?
But caramel slash caramel.
John Puma (23:56):
Yes.
I'm saying this sake is both.
Timothy Sullivan (24:00):
Yes.
So there, there's definitely alittle bit of sweetness there,
but it's like a caramelsweetness and.
For me, the aroma was a littlemore pronounced with that barley
toasted rice aroma.
On the palate, it's a littlemore reserved and there's a,
(24:21):
there's a trace of sweetnessthere, but it feels toasted and
caramelized.
Yeah.
Very interesting sake.
Hmm.
John Puma (24:30):
you told me that this was perhaps a three year regular
age sake, that would totallytrack.
So 10 year cold age, I thinkyou're meeting at certain point,
right?
But it definitely, tastes aged.
It definitely tastes like koshuBut I cannot help but wonder,
(24:52):
what does this taste like warmedup?
Because that might be a placewhere this can shine.
I think that room temperatureand warm is where, uh, is where
your, your older, your, your agesake sometimes, you know, gets,
gets a little burst of life.
I think it's outside of thescope of what we're doing today
on the show, but I'm verycurious about what that might
(25:14):
look like and might have to dosome personal experiments in the
future.
Timothy Sullivan (25:18):
Yeah.
I think without a doubt, thissake would fare very well for
warming up and the tokkuri isthe perfect vessel for doing
that.
So, I think that warm wouldbring out more of a, my
prediction would be a little bitof a spicy note.
(25:39):
Like, um, when the caramelflavors get a little bit warmed
up, sometimes you can get a hintof like, almost like baking
spices and things like that in,in koshu sake.
And I think that we would getsome of that here for sure.
John Puma (25:54):
That sounds like a pretty, uh, a decent prediction.
I think that that I can see thathappening.
Timothy Sullivan (26:02):
Yeah.
And this style of sake generallylike aged, cold aged for 10
years.
And this is a Tokubetsu JunmaiOmachi again, to remind our
listeners, this type of sake,this profile is generally really
good for warming.
So you can really look for, uh,an expansion of those ricey
(26:26):
flavors.
And I think the Omachi profilewould come forward even more
when you give it a gentlewarming.
John Puma (26:32):
Yeah.
I think that the, and thatkoshu, the caramel is kind of,
in my mind, it's, it's gettingin the way of that omachi note
that I, that I love so much.
It's hard to detect in the sakebecause it's, there's so much
more going on and maybe it'sjust hiding and needs a little,
a little warmth to bring it out.
Timothy Sullivan (26:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, warming in general,tends to bring the alcohol notes
forward and the warmingsensation in general.
And I think in this case, it'sgoing to bring the rice a little
bit forward as well.
John Puma (27:08):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (27:08):
Well, John, did you learn something about
tokkuri in this episode?
John Puma (27:14):
Tim, I learned a lot about Tokkuri in episode, mostly
about etiquette in Tokkuri.
But you know, what are you goingto do?
Uh, it was, uh, this was fun.
Uh, the Vessel series is always,uh, is always a good time for
me.
I always have fun with these.
Timothy Sullivan (27:27):
Yeah.
Well, you can't go wrong with alittle etiquette.
John Puma (27:30):
Never, a little etiquette goes a long way.
Timothy Sullivan (27:33):
I should have said that.
A little etiquette goes a longway.
John Puma (27:36):
People remember when you don't do the etiquette,
right, they forget when you doit, right.
Timothy Sullivan (27:43):
I think it's, it's worthwhile to have a few
tokkuri in your house, again,for portion control and for
serving your guests.
And for warming sake, it's like,it's a Swiss army knife of, of
sake vessels.
I think it does so much.
All right.
Well, John, it was so nice totaste with you.
This sake was so interestingthat we enjoyed today.
(28:05):
it's approaching omachi from adifferent point of view, but I
really enjoyed tasting it.
And, uh, it was really, reallyinteresting to have that from
our Tokkuris.
I want to thank our listenersfor tuning in.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We're so glad you're here.
And a special hello and thankyou to our patrons as well.
Sake Revolution is a listenersupported show.
(28:27):
And if you would like to learnmore about joining our community
at Patreon and supporting theshow, please visit
Patreon.com/SakeRevolution tolearn more.
John Puma (28:38):
and there's another really great way to support the
show.
You can go out there and reviewus on Apple podcasts or any
other podcast platform that youmight interact with, uh, gets
the word out about the showhelps, uh, the algorithm find us
so that when people are lookingfor shows about sake, we become
a little bit easier for them toget ahold of.
So on that note, Timothy.
(29:00):
Thank you very much for comingby today.
Um, don't forget to raise yourtokkuri two hands, two hands,
Tim, two hands.
Remember to keep drinking sakeand kanpai! kanpai.
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