July 21, 2025 • 30 mins
Episode 180. In this episode, we again shine a light on the role of Sake Yeast in our series known as the Kobo Chronicles. “Irradiation” and “mutant” are not typical words you’d find in sake marketing, but Tokushima Prefecture makes it work in promoting their “LED YUME” sake yeast. By exposing yeast to blue LED lights, they’ve created new strains of sake yeast for use specifically by Tokushima Prefecture breweries. The brewers at Narutotai have taken this yeast and made a sake that give us sweet flavors – we’re talking jammy notes of pineapple and mango. A noticeably high acidity balances out the sweetness and rounds out the palate. If you’d like to see the major role that a mutant yeast variety can play in a sake, join us and listen in! #SakeRevolution
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Puma (00:21):
Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's First Sakepodcast and I am your host, John
Puma.
I'm from the Sake Notes.
I'm also the administrator overat the Internet Sake Discord
and the lead mod at Reddits rslash sake community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:39):
And I'm your host, Timothy.
Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai.
I'm the Director of Educationat the Sake Studies Center, as
well as the founder of the UrbanSake website and every week
John and I will be here tastingand chatting about all things
sake and doing our best to makeit fun and easy to understand.
Hello John.
How are you?
John Puma (00:57):
Oh, you beat me too.
You, you were quick on the drawthere, Tim.
Timothy Sullivan (01:01):
Yes.
John Puma (01:01):
I, I appreciate that.
Uh, I'm doing, I'm doing ratherwell.
I'm doing pretty, pretty well.
Uh, how are you doing
Timothy Sullivan (01:09):
I am doing good.
I have been working hardteaching sake classes, and it's
been a lot of fun living thedream, as they say.
John Puma (01:20):
Nice.
Nice.
I wanna just get in therereally fast and say that, my
Sake Revolution resolutions,they're coming along well, one
of 'em is coming along.
I haven't done anything with acert with certificate yet.
I haven't signed up for anyclasses yet, but.
But I have been taking photosof the new bottles of sake that
(01:41):
I open.
And it's been number one, it'sbeen really fun to do.
Like I've really been enjoyingthat.
it's fun to have a record ofthe things that you've been
tasting.
Um, and that's, you know, Iknow a lot of people will do
like photos.
They'll take notes on top ofthat.
Uh, I haven't been doing notes,but I have been doing photos,
which reminds me of like whatI've been, what I've been doing.
(02:01):
So this, this, this exercisehas been kind of fun and, and
really, um, a good time so far.
I do need to do the other bit,you know, I'm way behind on
that, but, you know, we'll getthere, you know.
Timothy Sullivan (02:17):
Well, JP, I can totally vouch for you
because I am signed up as asubscriber to your Google Photo
album.
So every time you post yourphotos of what you've been
drinking, I get a little alertand I've been checking up on
you, and you're doing a goodjob.
John Puma (02:34):
You know, I think it's important that I, I think
it's important that I, I.
Have things in place to keep mehonest.
And so yeah, people are allowedto, to, to subscribe to the
album and they'll see what Ihave been drinking.
I believe that's in the shownotes from that episode we did
on the Sake Revolutionresolutions.
(02:54):
Maybe, maybe not.
But it's been a lot of fun and,and you Oh, well.
Maybe we can put in these showsnotes and you too can be
notified every time I open up anew bottle of sake.
Please note it's not, that'snot what's happening because
there's a lot of times, likeI've been realizing I didn't
post four or five pictures fromlike a, a like a week, and then
I'll just post 'em all at onceon like a Tuesday afternoon.
(03:15):
That's not what's going on onmy Tuesday afternoon.
Just FYI, no, I figured youknew that.
Timothy Sullivan (03:22):
my favorite part, my favorite part of
checking out the album is alwayslooking in the background to
see where you're drinking.
Like, I'm like, is that asoko?
Is that his house?
Is, is that accidental?
Like, where is he?
Where?
Where in the world is JohnPuma?
John Puma (03:38):
More often than not, it's my house,
Timothy Sullivan (03:40):
Yeah.
John Puma (03:41):
but yeah.
But it's been, it's been prettycool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so, but that's, that's notwhy we're here today, Tim.
We're not here to talk about metaking pictures of bottles of
sake.
Um,
Timothy Sullivan (03:52):
although it, it is nice to get an update on
your resolution,
John Puma (03:55):
yeah, you know, I think it's important, uh, we are
here to actually talk about,uh, about sake.
How about that?
We're gonna taste and talkabout sake.
What are we tasting and talkingabout today, Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (04:05):
Well, we're going to dip our toe back into
the world of what I've beencalling the Kobo Chronicles.
Kobo.
Kobo is the Japanese word foryeast.
And maybe we should just do aquick review of what yeast is
and what role it plays in sake.
(04:25):
And, uh, so it's called kobo inJapanese and.
I often define yeast as theengine of alcoholic
fermentation.
So it's the microorganism thateats sugar and gives off alcohol
and CO2 as a byproduct.
And, uh, that is the role ofyeast.
(04:47):
And in my mind's eye, I alwayspicture it like a little pacman.
Waka Waka Waka Waka chompingits way.
John Puma (04:55):
and it's important to note that like, for, everybody
at home, the use of yeast hereis not unique to sake.
This is, as you pointed out,something is an all alcoholic
beverages.
It's like alcohol doesn'thappen without yeast.
Is that more or less correct.
Timothy Sullivan (05:08):
That's right.
John Puma (05:09):
Yeah.
And here we
Timothy Sullivan (05:10):
So there, yeah, we've talked about yeast
many times on the podcast.
It's always good to review thebasics and, the Kobo Chronicles
is all about examining differentvarieties or maybe unusual
varieties of yeast and how theycan, how they can, uh.
contribute to flavors, aromas,and that kind of thing.
(05:30):
So we, we both got our hands ona sake that has a very unique
yeast, and we're going to talkabout that and taste that sake
today.
John Puma (05:41):
Yeah, I'm excited.
And I think that, I think thatin the sake world, or at least
where it comes to, like peopletalking about sake and like what
you see on the label, in a lotof cases, a lot of attention is
given to rice, right?
What kind of rice is in this?
What kind of rice?
And, and very rarely, notnever, but very rarely do we
(06:04):
get.
Talk of what kind of yeast isin this.
And so the idea that, that thefocus here on the series and
this bottle is on the yeast, isreally cool and I'm excited to,
to dive into it with you.
Timothy Sullivan (06:18):
Yeah, you're definitely right.
Yeast is very often like in thebackground and not the star
when it comes to, usually wetalk about the rice, as you
said, or sometimes even thewater Before.
We'll talk about the yeastvariety.
John Puma (06:32):
Yeah.
Okay.
Even though you're absolutelyright about that.
But not today.
Today it's all about thatyeast.
Timothy Sullivan (06:39):
Yes.
John Puma (06:39):
and and what is that yeast, Tim, what is that Yeast.
Timothy Sullivan (06:41):
well, today's yeast.
Today's yeast is a mutant.
John Puma (06:47):
Mutant.
Oh my goodness.
Timothy Sullivan (06:50):
Yes
John Puma (06:51):
does Stan Lee know about this?
Timothy Sullivan (06:55):
so.
This is, and we're gonna talkabout how to pronounce this, but
it is known as, uh, LED orlead, so it's the letters.
L-E-D-L-E-D-L-E-D, or lead.
What do you, what do you thinkit is?
(07:15):
I, I said LED.
John Puma (07:17):
Well, normally I would be inclined to say lead
'cause I think LED I'm thinkingof, you know, light emitting
diodes.
But I don't know a lot aboutthis yeast yet.
I'm trying to go into this withan open mind.
no contamination.
Timothy Sullivan (07:32):
Right.
Well, we're, I will give you amajor, major hint.
The mutant nature of this yeastis connected to lights.
John Puma (07:43):
Ooh.
Now I'm leaning LED.
That's
Timothy Sullivan (07:46):
Yes.
Let's, let's go with LED.
So.
The sake that we're tastingtoday is Narutotai, LED sake.
John Puma (07:57):
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (07:58):
It's uh, out of Tokushima Prefecture.
And, this is a sake that isbasically marketed and it's main
attraction is really the yeastthat they use, this mutant
yeast.
And maybe we can talk a littlebit about how it was created.
John Puma (08:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's very interesting.
And so this is, these are theguys that are known for the, for
the can.
Is this, is this not the case?
Timothy Sullivan (08:26):
Yes.
Now we've featured, i'veinfamously called it the oil
Can.
John Puma (08:32):
Yes you have.
Timothy Sullivan (08:34):
And, uh, to the, to the president's face
President of the company.
John Puma (08:37):
Uh, and what was his reaction to that?
Timothy Sullivan (08:40):
uh, I think nonplus is
John Puma (08:43):
Oh, okay.
Timothy Sullivan (08:44):
the word.
John Puma (08:47):
That's not the reaction you want.
Timothy Sullivan (08:49):
yeah.
So, Myshell is a big fan ofthis brand.
Is she not?
John Puma (08:53):
Oh, she's a huge fan of this brand.
The biggest,
Timothy Sullivan (08:58):
Yeah, so the classic Narutotai is Which one?
John Puma (09:02):
It's that It's at Shiboritate Ginjo Nama Gensh u,
if I'm not mistaken.
Timothy Sullivan (09:09):
Yeah.
Genshu?
John Puma (09:10):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (09:11):
And it's in that really cool aluminum can,
John Puma (09:15):
Right.
Just don't call it oil canapparently.
Timothy Sullivan (09:17):
Call it an oil can.
To the President's face, it'ssomething they're really, really
known for and this is adifferent product from their
lineup
John Puma (09:27):
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (09:28):
and they're calling it the LED sake.
And I have a little informationfor you about how this yeast
was created.
Uh, it was made in Tokushima.
So this is a yeast that is onlyused in Tokushima prefecture.
John Puma (09:45):
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (09:47):
And it was based off the work from the
Tokushima Prefectural IndustrialTechnology Center, and they did
work with, researchingIrradiating yeast with UV LEDs,
and what this does is it createsmutant strains of the yeast
when they zap it with the LEDlight.
(10:09):
And I also read that it's theblue wavelength in particular
John Puma (10:16):
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan (10:17):
They're applying to this yeast, and then
when the yeast is reproducing,it changes its DNAA little bit
and they get different,different strains of the yeast,
and they found one that theythought was particularly good
for making sake.
John Puma (10:35):
Very interesting.
I like that.
So they took the, they existingyeast and they like bombarded
it just to kind of see what itwould, not just to see what it
would do, but, to see whateffect it had.
And I imagine they did a lot ofthese experiments and and this
was one that, gave positiveresult.
Timothy Sullivan (10:50):
Yes.
And I mean things like, thingslike mutant and irradiate are
not the words we traditionallyuse in marketing sake, right?
John Puma (11:00):
It's a first for me,
Timothy Sullivan (11:03):
it's gonna be really interesting to taste
this.
Have you had this before?
John Puma (11:08):
I actually have.
I had this in Tokushima lastyear as a matter of fact.
I happened to be in Tokushima.
And number one, tokushima is awonderful Prefecture.
The city is absolutelydelightful to, um, to walk
around in.
The food is wonderful.
The people are friendly.
People don't know aboutTokushima, but don't they,
people don't go to Tokushima.
They should.
It's wonderful.
Timothy Sullivan (11:28):
You visited this prefecture and I've never
been there, so you're one up onme.
John Puma (11:35):
Aha.
Timothy Sullivan (11:36):
You scooped me, Puma.
John Puma (11:39):
If only I went to the brewery while I was there, then
I would really scoop you.
Timothy Sullivan (11:44):
so the name of this yeast is LED, Yume Kobo,
which means dream yeast.
So that's dream yeast.
'cause I guess it produces adreamy sake.
I don't know.
I.
John Puma (12:00):
I hope it does.
I'm look, I'm excited to findout.
Timothy Sullivan (12:03):
Now should I, should, should I read a, tasting
note to, tell us what thepromise of the flavor is before
we open?
John Puma (12:10):
Sure.
Let's find out what the, whatthe marketing says now.
Timothy Sullivan (12:16):
Alright, so let's see.
Okay, so it says, the variouslights of the LED irradiate, the
existing yeast and develop newyeast through mutations.
This allows us to produce acompletely new type of sake,
sour, sweet, and tropical.
John Puma (12:35):
Ooh.
Timothy Sullivan (12:36):
Uh, it's designed to have a very high
acidity and a sweet finish.
Drink the sake chilled in awine glass, and you'll get a
sour aroma like yogurt.
Slightly sweet aroma likeapple, which will Whet your
appetite.
John Puma (12:52):
Oh
Timothy Sullivan (12:53):
Alright?
Yes.
John Puma (12:55):
Wonderful.
That, that sounds great.
Yeah, I kind of want to, wannagive that a shot.
Now this is, that's very
Timothy Sullivan (13:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Before we open, let's talkabout this label too.
John Puma (13:06):
Yeah.
for us in, in the West, weprimarily experienced the eye
through their flagship canproduct that Shiboritate Ginjo
Genshu, And that is, oh, asquat.
White can with some Kanji onit.
Not a lot else going on.
(13:27):
This on the other hand, is avery elegant looking bottle.
It's one of those, um, longerneck, you know, kind of fatter
bottom bottles that I've beenseeing a little bit more of
these days.
Does it, Tim, is there a namefor this?
Timothy Sullivan (13:42):
Did you just say this bottle has a fat
bottom?
John Puma (13:45):
It does.
I
Timothy Sullivan (13:48):
covering the ears of my bottle.
When you said that, I thinkthat this is one of
John Puma (13:55):
calling it as I see it, Tim.
I don't know.
Timothy Sullivan (13:59):
The bottle shape that I know doesn't have a
specific name, but it is wideron the bottom and not the, the,
the higher neck.
I didn't say it had a fatbottom.
I said it's wider on thebottom, but it has a longer
narrow neck swan like neck.
Very beautiful.
I.
John Puma (14:15):
Yes.
That's very nice.
And then the label is verycolorful.
it's very colorful.
It's, and contrasting with thekanji filled label of the, of
their f.
Mainline product.
There's none on the front ofthis one.
It's just a bunch of colors andpatterns and even, even a bit
of a different texture.
(14:35):
Some foil on here.
It looks very lovely.
Did they ever say, in any,anything that you've read, what
they were trying to representwith this
Timothy Sullivan (14:43):
Well, I am putting two and two together
looking at this.
And the, the information I readabout the LED light, remember I
said they used the bluewavelength in particular?
And the blue on this design isthe one that gets the foil.
So the blue is the blue.
A line on the label is likesparkling and glowing with the
(15:08):
foil treatment.
I think these are all thedifferent wavelengths of light.
I think that's what this recrepresents in a very abstract
way.
But the blue one gets thespecial treatment and on the
side it says LED in the foil as
John Puma (15:24):
In the blue foil.
Timothy Sullivan (15:25):
Yeah.
I think that refers to the bluewavelength.
John Puma (15:28):
That stands to reason.
I like it,
Timothy Sullivan (15:30):
Yeah.
John Puma (15:31):
but very, yeah, very colorful, very striking, bottle
here.
And, uh, yeah, if you don'tmind, I'm gonna.
I give everybody at home aquick rundown of the stats for
this sake.
as, Tim pointed out, this isthe Naruto.
LED sake.
It is a Junmai Ginjo from,Honke Matsuura, which is of
(15:57):
course in Tokushima, which is,uh, on Shikoku, uh, island.
And the A BV here is 15%, theacidity is 2.5, which sounds
high to me.
That's, that's up there, right?
That's very high.
We, we've got, AWA IchibaYamadanishiki Rice from
Tokushima.
(16:17):
Now Tim, we know what YamadaNishiki Rice is.
We know what Tokushima is.
Uh, what is Awa Ichiba?
Timothy Sullivan (16:25):
Awa Ichiba refers to the location, so this
is, uh, Tokushima grownYamadanishiki.
John Puma (16:31):
Ah, very nice.
Very nice.
Well, they take that Awa IchibaYamada Nishiki from Tokushima,
and they Mill it down to 58% ofits original size.
Uh, and then here's, uh, here'swhere things get a little
extreme.
The sake meter value is minus20.
If you're wondering how theywere gonna deal with that 2.5
acidity.
I think we know where they'regoing.
(16:52):
I think that they're gonna tryand meet somewhere in the middle
with this very, very low SMVand that very high acidity.
What do you think, Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (17:01):
Yep,
John Puma (17:02):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (17:02):
that sounds right.
And of course the yeast is ourLED Dream sake yeast.
John Puma (17:08):
Yes.
Well, I didn't think I neededto mention that,
Timothy Sullivan (17:10):
Well, I.
John Puma (17:12):
but I appreciate you being thorough.
Timothy Sullivan (17:15):
I, I'm very, very thorough.
Someone might start listeningin the middle, you know,
John Puma (17:21):
Uh, if you listen, if you just started the show,
please go back to the beginningof the show.
You don't have to go to thebeginning of like episode one of
Sake Revolution, but for thisparticular episode, just do me a
solid and go back to thebeginning.
We put a lot of work into that.
All right, so let's, Tim, let'sopen
Timothy Sullivan (17:38):
so we got the stats.
Yes, we got it.
Let's open it.
John Puma (17:43):
Please do.
All right, so we've got it inthe glass.
Timothy Sullivan (17:48):
Yep, I've got the, uh, Narutotai, LED sake, in
the glass.
Let's give it a smell.
John Puma (17:55):
Yeah.
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (18:00):
It smells fruity to me.
I.
John Puma (18:02):
Tropical, it may just be that they imprinted that
word for me there, but, Hmm.
Yeah.
Very for me.
Very tropical on the nose.
Timothy Sullivan (18:16):
Yep.
It smells, smells a littlelike, um, jammy and mango.
Not too much melon this time.
I mean, you and I love to talkabout melon, but it's not as
melon.
Yeah.
I.
John Puma (18:29):
Yeah.
It's not, it's not very Melonyat all.
It is as, yeah.
Much more of that mango maybe.
Maybe a little, oh, maybe alittle pineapple.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Are you ready to
Timothy Sullivan (18:40):
give it a taste.
I am.
Hmm.
John Puma (18:46):
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (18:47):
Oh, it's interesting.
John Puma (18:49):
That is a blast of, of fruit.
Timothy Sullivan (18:52):
Yeah.
John Puma (18:54):
Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan (18:55):
It almost tastes like a starburst.
John Puma (18:57):
it's, it's, this is not subtle in the least.
Timothy Sullivan (19:02):
it's very rich and juicy and sweet, but the
acidity comes on the finish forme, like it's bright and acidic
on the finish.
John Puma (19:11):
Yeah, it is.
bear with me for a moment.
The.
The OG Narutotai that, thatGenshu is well known for just
being like a big intense likeblast of, nama Assult and this
is like, it's got that pow toit, but this is fruit and sweet
and sour.
it's a very different style,but the.
(19:33):
The core energy that that thisbrand brings, that's take no
prisoners.
Here's the flavor.
Appears to be present.
Timothy Sullivan (19:43):
Yeah, it's not shy.
Neither of their sakes are shy.
Yeah.
John Puma (19:48):
Yeah.
They're just going big or goinghome and they're, they're going
big here.
Timothy Sullivan (19:52):
I think one of the biggest differences between
the classic Narutotai that wefeatured before, and this one is
that the alcohol percentage isdifferent.
The Narutotai in the can, theNama Genshu is just so bombastic
and high alcohol.
This is juicy, sweet high acid,but the alcohol's only at 15%,
(20:14):
so it doesn't bowl me over inthat same way.
Let me know if you think thisis a fair statement, but I think
that if you are a lover ofJuicy White Wines, that you
would really like this.
What do you think?
John Puma (20:31):
Yeah.
It does have that high aciditywhite, yeah, white wine's like a
Riesling, it's like pow, like,you know, or a, like a Muscat,
like almost kind of thing.
it, is it just big and vibrant?
It's a lot of fun to drink..
I don't think it's somethingyou can just, like absently,
keep sipping.
'cause it is so intense.
you know, you're, you're gonnaget a little bit of like maybe
palate fatigue for a bit.
(20:52):
It's, it's just, that's a lot.
It's ti it's almost tiring.
This is not an nama, but itdoes.
Um, and in some ways feel likeone, it's 'cause it's so
vibrant.
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (21:02):
Well, the thing that is really exciting
for me about this sake is thatit does push the envelope.
You know, we don't want sakesto always be the same or never
innovate, and it sounds likewith this mutant yeast, they
were able to, innovate in a wayand make the sake more
expressive.
And it is.
In.
(21:22):
In my opinion, it's leaningmore towards a wine like sake,
and I don't think that's a badthing.
I think that will attract a lotof wine lovers to sake.
John Puma (21:33):
Yeah, it could.
It definitely could.
And.
You know, as somebody whoenjoys the wine from time to
time.
Yeah.
This is definitely really nice.
Timothy Sullivan (21:42):
Yeah.
Now we have to ask ourselves,I.
What we would pair with this,because it's a very unique sake.
John Puma (21:50):
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (21:51):
It's got the sweetness going on, it's got the
high acidity, um, it's gotthat, uh, kind of muted tropical
fruit.
John Puma (22:02):
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (22:02):
And I do have some pairing recommendations
from the distributor.
John Puma (22:10):
Mm.
Timothy Sullivan (22:11):
So should I read those and we can react to
them?
Do a live
John Puma (22:15):
Yeah, I, I think that'll be fun.
Let's go for that.
Timothy Sullivan (22:18):
Okay.
So the first one is cheeserisotto.
Cheese risotto
John Puma (22:25):
I cannot opine.
Timothy Sullivan (22:29):
because of the cheese.
John Puma (22:30):
Because of the cheese.
But
Timothy Sullivan (22:32):
For new listeners, for new listeners.
John Puma (22:35):
John does not
Timothy Sullivan (22:35):
John Puma does not eat cheese.
That was a, that was a misfireon my
John Puma (22:40):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It's fine.
Tim, what about you?
Timothy Sullivan (22:44):
I think it would be great.
John Puma (22:45):
Okay.
So that that one works
Timothy Sullivan (22:47):
risotto.
Risotto is, is often cookedwith cheese and white wine and I
think that it gives that alittle bit of acidity to cheese
Risotto.
Cheese risotto is irresistiblein my book, so, I think that's
wonderful.
They also say.
Caesar salad.
John Puma (23:05):
okay.
I'm here for that.
And I think that this would goreally well with that.
Uh, okay.
Timothy Sullivan (23:12):
They said fruit.
Fruit platter.
John Puma (23:14):
Sure.
Timothy Sullivan (23:15):
Yeah.
I don't sit around with a fruitplatter all
John Puma (23:18):
No.
Yeah.
me either.
And so I'm like, yeah, I guessthat would work.
Sure.
Timothy Sullivan (23:26):
And also in the dessert section they also
say cheesecake with blueberrysauce.
John Puma (23:32):
That's very specific.
Timothy Sullivan (23:35):
I'm not a big fan.
Scott will tell you, I'm not abig fan of blueberry in general,
but just plain cheesecake.
I could see this.
It has the sweetness to put afoot, put a foot into dessert
territory, but I don't think youneed to like, this isn't so
sweet that I feel like it's adessert sake.
What do you think?
John Puma (23:55):
I don't, no, I don't think it's there.
I think that the Caesar saladkind of made my eyes light up a
little bit.
That sounded nice.
I have also found therecommendations, uh, at least,
uh, I think these are from theimporter as well.
I see also roast beef here.
That's an interesting idea.
That's like a, a, a, you know,a heavier flavor.
And I think that the highacidity on this would, would
(24:16):
perhaps, be tamed a little bitby it.
I think.
I think that's a fun way tohave it.
I'd be interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (24:23):
Yeah, well, let's come up with our own food
pairing recommendations too.
This is, it's not easy, butthis is a muscle that we have to
exercise.
Like we have to envision ourfood pairing options.
And the more you do it, theeasier it gets to kind of
envision what you would havewith this.
So I really like the idea of asalad for sure.
(24:45):
Caesar salad sounds great.
Raspberry vinegarette would begreat.
I often go to that with sake,and I think this would pair
really well with, pardon me,John, but a, a cheese, cheese
plate.
This is a sake I would featurein my cheese pairing class for
John Puma (25:03):
I was, I was just about to ask you that.
Timothy Sullivan (25:05):
Yeah.
John Puma (25:07):
Um, great.
And I also, so, um, do youthink that something with Lemon
would clash with this?
Timothy Sullivan (25:14):
Hmm.
I think the, the acidity from alemon based vinegarette or a
lemon dressing would be great.
And that makes me also think ofsomething like a lemon chicken,
you know?
Um, I love lemon chicken and Ithink that would go great with
this.
Okay.
So we won't go hungry.
And there's lots, there's lotsto pair with this sake.
John Puma (25:36):
Yes, I, I agree.
Timothy Sullivan (25:39):
And you know, when you see those numbers on
the stats, like acidity 2.5, SMVminus 20, it's like, oh my God,
what am I gonna do with thisthing?
It's out of bounds in a lot ofways but tasting it, it's like,
oh, this is not that crazy.
After all, this is not a funkysake for our funky sake series,
I
John Puma (25:58):
it is not.
No, no.
It is definitely not funky.
Uh, and we mean that we don'tmean that as an insult.
Um, yeah, no, this is not afunky sake.
It is a really well balancedsake.
The numbers may make you think,oh my God, this is going to be
absolutely insane.
But because you, you have ahigh number on either side,
(26:19):
it's, meeting in the middle in away.
And it's really nice.
Timothy Sullivan (26:24):
Yeah, it's the alcohol acidity and, sweetness,
all balance each other out.
And, uh, it definitely leansmore on the sweet side.
I think if you buy the sake,you should know it's gonna be on
the sweeter side, but it's notoverpowering, it's not out of
balance and super unique.
And I think it's great that wecan, uh, have new yeast
(26:48):
varieties like this.
This LED.
Dream yeast or LED you may,and, have it produce these
interesting, flavors I think isgreat.
And, I'm excited to see.
I know that a few other brewersin Tokushima are gonna be using
this yeast as well, so maybe wecan get our hands on another
LED sake that uses this yeastand do a taste comparison.
(27:12):
That would be fun for a futureepisode.
John Puma (27:14):
That would be a lot of fun.
And is, there's one last thingI want to, to, to talk about
here with this and that is, tome at least, and feel free, I
definitely want to get your,feedback.
But I think that this is asake, we want to definitely
serve more on the colder side ofthings.
Uh, it does not feel likesomething that we wanna warm up
too much and it doesn't feellike something that's gonna love
being.
Uh, love being all that roomtemperature, either, uh, I don't
(27:39):
know what your thoughts are.
Timothy Sullivan (27:41):
It doesn't matter what my thoughts are,
John.
The back label says, servechilled.
Only the brewery is telling usServe chilled only.
I.
John Puma (27:53):
the power of the brewery compels us.
Well then I'm glad I, uh,brought that up.
Timothy Sullivan (28:01):
Yeah, so the brewery recommends 51 degrees
Fahrenheit.
If you go into their, deepernotes online, they say that 51
Fahrenheit is the magictemperature, which is quite,
quite cold for sake.
And so they want this wellchilled, and I think that helps
hold the integrity of the saketogether.
(28:22):
Like maybe when it gets towardsroom temperature, it becomes a
little more flabby.
But, uh, I think.
Um, when it's chilled, it kindof keeps it a little crisper on
the finish.
And, uh, I, I would agree withthat.
So I think chilled is the wayto go.
John Puma (28:35):
Hmm.
Alright, well, Tim, this hasbeen a lot of fun.
We had a, a nice new, excitingsake and I, I like the series
too, like that.
We're putting a spotlight onKobo.
Um,
Timothy Sullivan (28:46):
Who knew that a irradiation and mutation could
be so much fun?
John Puma (28:51):
be X-Men anyway.
Timothy Sullivan (28:57):
well, well, John, it was so much fun to
taste with you.
Thanks for sharing this sakewith me.
And, um, I wanna thank ourlisteners as well for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed our show.
Now, if you are one of our.
Patreon supporters, we want tosend you a special hi.
Hello, and thank you forsupporting us.
(29:17):
If any listeners out there arenot in our Patreon community and
you'd like to join, visitpatreon.com/sake revolution.
And join us.
We have a monthly live happyhour the first Wednesday of
every month, and you can talk tous live in person on Zoom, and
we'd love to see you there.
So join us on Patreon.
John Puma (29:37):
And, when you have a chance, if you'd like other ways
to support our show, pleasemention us to people, you know,
mention us to your friends.
Also, I.
Give us a little shout on yourpodcast platform of choice, a
little review, whatever amountof stars you think is
appropriate.
goes a long way towards gettingour podcast to the top of the,
relevant charts.
(29:59):
When people search for Sakepodcast, we want them to find
Sake Revolution, and this willhelp out.
So on that note, Tim, raiseyour glass.
Remember to keep drinking sakeanpaiand K.
Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's First Sakepodcast and I am your host, John
Puma.
I'm from the Sake Notes.
I'm also the administrator overat the Internet Sake Discord
and the lead mod at Reddits rslash sake community.
Timothy Sullivan (00:39):
And I'm your host, Timothy.
Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai.
I'm the Director of Educationat the Sake Studies Center, as
well as the founder of the UrbanSake website and every week
John and I will be here tastingand chatting about all things
sake and doing our best to makeit fun and easy to understand.
Hello John.
How are you?
John Puma (00:57):
Oh, you beat me too.
You, you were quick on the drawthere, Tim.
Timothy Sullivan (01:01):
Yes.
John Puma (01:01):
I, I appreciate that.
Uh, I'm doing, I'm doing ratherwell.
I'm doing pretty, pretty well.
Uh, how are you doing
Timothy Sullivan (01:09):
I am doing good.
I have been working hardteaching sake classes, and it's
been a lot of fun living thedream, as they say.
John Puma (01:20):
Nice.
Nice.
I wanna just get in therereally fast and say that, my
Sake Revolution resolutions,they're coming along well, one
of 'em is coming along.
I haven't done anything with acert with certificate yet.
I haven't signed up for anyclasses yet, but.
But I have been taking photosof the new bottles of sake that
(01:41):
I open.
And it's been number one, it'sbeen really fun to do.
Like I've really been enjoyingthat.
it's fun to have a record ofthe things that you've been
tasting.
Um, and that's, you know, Iknow a lot of people will do
like photos.
They'll take notes on top ofthat.
Uh, I haven't been doing notes,but I have been doing photos,
which reminds me of like whatI've been, what I've been doing.
(02:01):
So this, this, this exercisehas been kind of fun and, and
really, um, a good time so far.
I do need to do the other bit,you know, I'm way behind on
that, but, you know, we'll getthere, you know.
Timothy Sullivan (02:17):
Well, JP, I can totally vouch for you
because I am signed up as asubscriber to your Google Photo
album.
So every time you post yourphotos of what you've been
drinking, I get a little alertand I've been checking up on
you, and you're doing a goodjob.
John Puma (02:34):
You know, I think it's important that I, I think
it's important that I, I.
Have things in place to keep mehonest.
And so yeah, people are allowedto, to, to subscribe to the
album and they'll see what Ihave been drinking.
I believe that's in the shownotes from that episode we did
on the Sake Revolutionresolutions.
(02:54):
Maybe, maybe not.
But it's been a lot of fun and,and you Oh, well.
Maybe we can put in these showsnotes and you too can be
notified every time I open up anew bottle of sake.
Please note it's not, that'snot what's happening because
there's a lot of times, likeI've been realizing I didn't
post four or five pictures fromlike a, a like a week, and then
I'll just post 'em all at onceon like a Tuesday afternoon.
(03:15):
That's not what's going on onmy Tuesday afternoon.
Just FYI, no, I figured youknew that.
Timothy Sullivan (03:22):
my favorite part, my favorite part of
checking out the album is alwayslooking in the background to
see where you're drinking.
Like, I'm like, is that asoko?
Is that his house?
Is, is that accidental?
Like, where is he?
Where?
Where in the world is JohnPuma?
John Puma (03:38):
More often than not, it's my house,
Timothy Sullivan (03:40):
Yeah.
John Puma (03:41):
but yeah.
But it's been, it's been prettycool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so, but that's, that's notwhy we're here today, Tim.
We're not here to talk about metaking pictures of bottles of
sake.
Um,
Timothy Sullivan (03:52):
although it, it is nice to get an update on
your resolution,
John Puma (03:55):
yeah, you know, I think it's important, uh, we are
here to actually talk about,uh, about sake.
How about that?
We're gonna taste and talkabout sake.
What are we tasting and talkingabout today, Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (04:05):
Well, we're going to dip our toe back into
the world of what I've beencalling the Kobo Chronicles.
Kobo.
Kobo is the Japanese word foryeast.
And maybe we should just do aquick review of what yeast is
and what role it plays in sake.
(04:25):
And, uh, so it's called kobo inJapanese and.
I often define yeast as theengine of alcoholic
fermentation.
So it's the microorganism thateats sugar and gives off alcohol
and CO2 as a byproduct.
And, uh, that is the role ofyeast.
(04:47):
And in my mind's eye, I alwayspicture it like a little pacman.
Waka Waka Waka Waka chompingits way.
John Puma (04:55):
and it's important to note that like, for, everybody
at home, the use of yeast hereis not unique to sake.
This is, as you pointed out,something is an all alcoholic
beverages.
It's like alcohol doesn'thappen without yeast.
Is that more or less correct.
Timothy Sullivan (05:08):
That's right.
John Puma (05:09):
Yeah.
And here we
Timothy Sullivan (05:10):
So there, yeah, we've talked about yeast
many times on the podcast.
It's always good to review thebasics and, the Kobo Chronicles
is all about examining differentvarieties or maybe unusual
varieties of yeast and how theycan, how they can, uh.
contribute to flavors, aromas,and that kind of thing.
(05:30):
So we, we both got our hands ona sake that has a very unique
yeast, and we're going to talkabout that and taste that sake
today.
John Puma (05:41):
Yeah, I'm excited.
And I think that, I think thatin the sake world, or at least
where it comes to, like peopletalking about sake and like what
you see on the label, in a lotof cases, a lot of attention is
given to rice, right?
What kind of rice is in this?
What kind of rice?
And, and very rarely, notnever, but very rarely do we
(06:04):
get.
Talk of what kind of yeast isin this.
And so the idea that, that thefocus here on the series and
this bottle is on the yeast, isreally cool and I'm excited to,
to dive into it with you.
Timothy Sullivan (06:18):
Yeah, you're definitely right.
Yeast is very often like in thebackground and not the star
when it comes to, usually wetalk about the rice, as you
said, or sometimes even thewater Before.
We'll talk about the yeastvariety.
John Puma (06:32):
Yeah.
Okay.
Even though you're absolutelyright about that.
But not today.
Today it's all about thatyeast.
Timothy Sullivan (06:39):
Yes.
John Puma (06:39):
and and what is that yeast, Tim, what is that Yeast.
Timothy Sullivan (06:41):
well, today's yeast.
Today's yeast is a mutant.
John Puma (06:47):
Mutant.
Oh my goodness.
Timothy Sullivan (06:50):
Yes
John Puma (06:51):
does Stan Lee know about this?
Timothy Sullivan (06:55):
so.
This is, and we're gonna talkabout how to pronounce this, but
it is known as, uh, LED orlead, so it's the letters.
L-E-D-L-E-D-L-E-D, or lead.
What do you, what do you thinkit is?
(07:15):
I, I said LED.
John Puma (07:17):
Well, normally I would be inclined to say lead
'cause I think LED I'm thinkingof, you know, light emitting
diodes.
But I don't know a lot aboutthis yeast yet.
I'm trying to go into this withan open mind.
no contamination.
Timothy Sullivan (07:32):
Right.
Well, we're, I will give you amajor, major hint.
The mutant nature of this yeastis connected to lights.
John Puma (07:43):
Ooh.
Now I'm leaning LED.
That's
Timothy Sullivan (07:46):
Yes.
Let's, let's go with LED.
So.
The sake that we're tastingtoday is Narutotai, LED sake.
John Puma (07:57):
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (07:58):
It's uh, out of Tokushima Prefecture.
And, this is a sake that isbasically marketed and it's main
attraction is really the yeastthat they use, this mutant
yeast.
And maybe we can talk a littlebit about how it was created.
John Puma (08:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's very interesting.
And so this is, these are theguys that are known for the, for
the can.
Is this, is this not the case?
Timothy Sullivan (08:26):
Yes.
Now we've featured, i'veinfamously called it the oil
Can.
John Puma (08:32):
Yes you have.
Timothy Sullivan (08:34):
And, uh, to the, to the president's face
President of the company.
John Puma (08:37):
Uh, and what was his reaction to that?
Timothy Sullivan (08:40):
uh, I think nonplus is
John Puma (08:43):
Oh, okay.
Timothy Sullivan (08:44):
the word.
John Puma (08:47):
That's not the reaction you want.
Timothy Sullivan (08:49):
yeah.
So, Myshell is a big fan ofthis brand.
Is she not?
John Puma (08:53):
Oh, she's a huge fan of this brand.
The biggest,
Timothy Sullivan (08:58):
Yeah, so the classic Narutotai is Which one?
John Puma (09:02):
It's that It's at Shiboritate Ginjo Nama Gensh u,
if I'm not mistaken.
Timothy Sullivan (09:09):
Yeah.
Genshu?
John Puma (09:10):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (09:11):
And it's in that really cool aluminum can,
John Puma (09:15):
Right.
Just don't call it oil canapparently.
Timothy Sullivan (09:17):
Call it an oil can.
To the President's face, it'ssomething they're really, really
known for and this is adifferent product from their
lineup
John Puma (09:27):
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (09:28):
and they're calling it the LED sake.
And I have a little informationfor you about how this yeast
was created.
Uh, it was made in Tokushima.
So this is a yeast that is onlyused in Tokushima prefecture.
John Puma (09:45):
All right.
Timothy Sullivan (09:47):
And it was based off the work from the
Tokushima Prefectural IndustrialTechnology Center, and they did
work with, researchingIrradiating yeast with UV LEDs,
and what this does is it createsmutant strains of the yeast
when they zap it with the LEDlight.
(10:09):
And I also read that it's theblue wavelength in particular
John Puma (10:16):
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan (10:17):
They're applying to this yeast, and then
when the yeast is reproducing,it changes its DNAA little bit
and they get different,different strains of the yeast,
and they found one that theythought was particularly good
for making sake.
John Puma (10:35):
Very interesting.
I like that.
So they took the, they existingyeast and they like bombarded
it just to kind of see what itwould, not just to see what it
would do, but, to see whateffect it had.
And I imagine they did a lot ofthese experiments and and this
was one that, gave positiveresult.
Timothy Sullivan (10:50):
Yes.
And I mean things like, thingslike mutant and irradiate are
not the words we traditionallyuse in marketing sake, right?
John Puma (11:00):
It's a first for me,
Timothy Sullivan (11:03):
it's gonna be really interesting to taste
this.
Have you had this before?
John Puma (11:08):
I actually have.
I had this in Tokushima lastyear as a matter of fact.
I happened to be in Tokushima.
And number one, tokushima is awonderful Prefecture.
The city is absolutelydelightful to, um, to walk
around in.
The food is wonderful.
The people are friendly.
People don't know aboutTokushima, but don't they,
people don't go to Tokushima.
They should.
It's wonderful.
Timothy Sullivan (11:28):
You visited this prefecture and I've never
been there, so you're one up onme.
John Puma (11:35):
Aha.
Timothy Sullivan (11:36):
You scooped me, Puma.
John Puma (11:39):
If only I went to the brewery while I was there, then
I would really scoop you.
Timothy Sullivan (11:44):
so the name of this yeast is LED, Yume Kobo,
which means dream yeast.
So that's dream yeast.
'cause I guess it produces adreamy sake.
I don't know.
I.
John Puma (12:00):
I hope it does.
I'm look, I'm excited to findout.
Timothy Sullivan (12:03):
Now should I, should, should I read a, tasting
note to, tell us what thepromise of the flavor is before
we open?
John Puma (12:10):
Sure.
Let's find out what the, whatthe marketing says now.
Timothy Sullivan (12:16):
Alright, so let's see.
Okay, so it says, the variouslights of the LED irradiate, the
existing yeast and develop newyeast through mutations.
This allows us to produce acompletely new type of sake,
sour, sweet, and tropical.
John Puma (12:35):
Ooh.
Timothy Sullivan (12:36):
Uh, it's designed to have a very high
acidity and a sweet finish.
Drink the sake chilled in awine glass, and you'll get a
sour aroma like yogurt.
Slightly sweet aroma likeapple, which will Whet your
appetite.
John Puma (12:52):
Oh
Timothy Sullivan (12:53):
Alright?
Yes.
John Puma (12:55):
Wonderful.
That, that sounds great.
Yeah, I kind of want to, wannagive that a shot.
Now this is, that's very
Timothy Sullivan (13:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Before we open, let's talkabout this label too.
John Puma (13:06):
Yeah.
for us in, in the West, weprimarily experienced the eye
through their flagship canproduct that Shiboritate Ginjo
Genshu, And that is, oh, asquat.
White can with some Kanji onit.
Not a lot else going on.
(13:27):
This on the other hand, is avery elegant looking bottle.
It's one of those, um, longerneck, you know, kind of fatter
bottom bottles that I've beenseeing a little bit more of
these days.
Does it, Tim, is there a namefor this?
Timothy Sullivan (13:42):
Did you just say this bottle has a fat
bottom?
John Puma (13:45):
It does.
I
Timothy Sullivan (13:48):
covering the ears of my bottle.
When you said that, I thinkthat this is one of
John Puma (13:55):
calling it as I see it, Tim.
I don't know.
Timothy Sullivan (13:59):
The bottle shape that I know doesn't have a
specific name, but it is wideron the bottom and not the, the,
the higher neck.
I didn't say it had a fatbottom.
I said it's wider on thebottom, but it has a longer
narrow neck swan like neck.
Very beautiful.
I.
John Puma (14:15):
Yes.
That's very nice.
And then the label is verycolorful.
it's very colorful.
It's, and contrasting with thekanji filled label of the, of
their f.
Mainline product.
There's none on the front ofthis one.
It's just a bunch of colors andpatterns and even, even a bit
of a different texture.
(14:35):
Some foil on here.
It looks very lovely.
Did they ever say, in any,anything that you've read, what
they were trying to representwith this
Timothy Sullivan (14:43):
Well, I am putting two and two together
looking at this.
And the, the information I readabout the LED light, remember I
said they used the bluewavelength in particular?
And the blue on this design isthe one that gets the foil.
So the blue is the blue.
A line on the label is likesparkling and glowing with the
(15:08):
foil treatment.
I think these are all thedifferent wavelengths of light.
I think that's what this recrepresents in a very abstract
way.
But the blue one gets thespecial treatment and on the
side it says LED in the foil as
John Puma (15:24):
In the blue foil.
Timothy Sullivan (15:25):
Yeah.
I think that refers to the bluewavelength.
John Puma (15:28):
That stands to reason.
I like it,
Timothy Sullivan (15:30):
Yeah.
John Puma (15:31):
but very, yeah, very colorful, very striking, bottle
here.
And, uh, yeah, if you don'tmind, I'm gonna.
I give everybody at home aquick rundown of the stats for
this sake.
as, Tim pointed out, this isthe Naruto.
LED sake.
It is a Junmai Ginjo from,Honke Matsuura, which is of
(15:57):
course in Tokushima, which is,uh, on Shikoku, uh, island.
And the A BV here is 15%, theacidity is 2.5, which sounds
high to me.
That's, that's up there, right?
That's very high.
We, we've got, AWA IchibaYamadanishiki Rice from
Tokushima.
(16:17):
Now Tim, we know what YamadaNishiki Rice is.
We know what Tokushima is.
Uh, what is Awa Ichiba?
Timothy Sullivan (16:25):
Awa Ichiba refers to the location, so this
is, uh, Tokushima grownYamadanishiki.
John Puma (16:31):
Ah, very nice.
Very nice.
Well, they take that Awa IchibaYamada Nishiki from Tokushima,
and they Mill it down to 58% ofits original size.
Uh, and then here's, uh, here'swhere things get a little
extreme.
The sake meter value is minus20.
If you're wondering how theywere gonna deal with that 2.5
acidity.
I think we know where they'regoing.
(16:52):
I think that they're gonna tryand meet somewhere in the middle
with this very, very low SMVand that very high acidity.
What do you think, Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (17:01):
Yep,
John Puma (17:02):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (17:02):
that sounds right.
And of course the yeast is ourLED Dream sake yeast.
John Puma (17:08):
Yes.
Well, I didn't think I neededto mention that,
Timothy Sullivan (17:10):
Well, I.
John Puma (17:12):
but I appreciate you being thorough.
Timothy Sullivan (17:15):
I, I'm very, very thorough.
Someone might start listeningin the middle, you know,
John Puma (17:21):
Uh, if you listen, if you just started the show,
please go back to the beginningof the show.
You don't have to go to thebeginning of like episode one of
Sake Revolution, but for thisparticular episode, just do me a
solid and go back to thebeginning.
We put a lot of work into that.
All right, so let's, Tim, let'sopen
Timothy Sullivan (17:38):
so we got the stats.
Yes, we got it.
Let's open it.
John Puma (17:43):
Please do.
All right, so we've got it inthe glass.
Timothy Sullivan (17:48):
Yep, I've got the, uh, Narutotai, LED sake, in
the glass.
Let's give it a smell.
John Puma (17:55):
Yeah.
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (18:00):
It smells fruity to me.
I.
John Puma (18:02):
Tropical, it may just be that they imprinted that
word for me there, but, Hmm.
Yeah.
Very for me.
Very tropical on the nose.
Timothy Sullivan (18:16):
Yep.
It smells, smells a littlelike, um, jammy and mango.
Not too much melon this time.
I mean, you and I love to talkabout melon, but it's not as
melon.
Yeah.
I.
John Puma (18:29):
Yeah.
It's not, it's not very Melonyat all.
It is as, yeah.
Much more of that mango maybe.
Maybe a little, oh, maybe alittle pineapple.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Are you ready to
Timothy Sullivan (18:40):
give it a taste.
I am.
Hmm.
John Puma (18:46):
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (18:47):
Oh, it's interesting.
John Puma (18:49):
That is a blast of, of fruit.
Timothy Sullivan (18:52):
Yeah.
John Puma (18:54):
Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan (18:55):
It almost tastes like a starburst.
John Puma (18:57):
it's, it's, this is not subtle in the least.
Timothy Sullivan (19:02):
it's very rich and juicy and sweet, but the
acidity comes on the finish forme, like it's bright and acidic
on the finish.
John Puma (19:11):
Yeah, it is.
bear with me for a moment.
The.
The OG Narutotai that, thatGenshu is well known for just
being like a big intense likeblast of, nama Assult and this
is like, it's got that pow toit, but this is fruit and sweet
and sour.
it's a very different style,but the.
(19:33):
The core energy that that thisbrand brings, that's take no
prisoners.
Here's the flavor.
Appears to be present.
Timothy Sullivan (19:43):
Yeah, it's not shy.
Neither of their sakes are shy.
Yeah.
John Puma (19:48):
Yeah.
They're just going big or goinghome and they're, they're going
big here.
Timothy Sullivan (19:52):
I think one of the biggest differences between
the classic Narutotai that wefeatured before, and this one is
that the alcohol percentage isdifferent.
The Narutotai in the can, theNama Genshu is just so bombastic
and high alcohol.
This is juicy, sweet high acid,but the alcohol's only at 15%,
(20:14):
so it doesn't bowl me over inthat same way.
Let me know if you think thisis a fair statement, but I think
that if you are a lover ofJuicy White Wines, that you
would really like this.
What do you think?
John Puma (20:31):
Yeah.
It does have that high aciditywhite, yeah, white wine's like a
Riesling, it's like pow, like,you know, or a, like a Muscat,
like almost kind of thing.
it, is it just big and vibrant?
It's a lot of fun to drink..
I don't think it's somethingyou can just, like absently,
keep sipping.
'cause it is so intense.
you know, you're, you're gonnaget a little bit of like maybe
palate fatigue for a bit.
(20:52):
It's, it's just, that's a lot.
It's ti it's almost tiring.
This is not an nama, but itdoes.
Um, and in some ways feel likeone, it's 'cause it's so
vibrant.
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (21:02):
Well, the thing that is really exciting
for me about this sake is thatit does push the envelope.
You know, we don't want sakesto always be the same or never
innovate, and it sounds likewith this mutant yeast, they
were able to, innovate in a wayand make the sake more
expressive.
And it is.
In.
(21:22):
In my opinion, it's leaningmore towards a wine like sake,
and I don't think that's a badthing.
I think that will attract a lotof wine lovers to sake.
John Puma (21:33):
Yeah, it could.
It definitely could.
And.
You know, as somebody whoenjoys the wine from time to
time.
Yeah.
This is definitely really nice.
Timothy Sullivan (21:42):
Yeah.
Now we have to ask ourselves,I.
What we would pair with this,because it's a very unique sake.
John Puma (21:50):
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (21:51):
It's got the sweetness going on, it's got the
high acidity, um, it's gotthat, uh, kind of muted tropical
fruit.
John Puma (22:02):
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (22:02):
And I do have some pairing recommendations
from the distributor.
John Puma (22:10):
Mm.
Timothy Sullivan (22:11):
So should I read those and we can react to
them?
Do a live
John Puma (22:15):
Yeah, I, I think that'll be fun.
Let's go for that.
Timothy Sullivan (22:18):
Okay.
So the first one is cheeserisotto.
Cheese risotto
John Puma (22:25):
I cannot opine.
Timothy Sullivan (22:29):
because of the cheese.
John Puma (22:30):
Because of the cheese.
But
Timothy Sullivan (22:32):
For new listeners, for new listeners.
John Puma (22:35):
John does not
Timothy Sullivan (22:35):
John Puma does not eat cheese.
That was a, that was a misfireon my
John Puma (22:40):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It's fine.
Tim, what about you?
Timothy Sullivan (22:44):
I think it would be great.
John Puma (22:45):
Okay.
So that that one works
Timothy Sullivan (22:47):
risotto.
Risotto is, is often cookedwith cheese and white wine and I
think that it gives that alittle bit of acidity to cheese
Risotto.
Cheese risotto is irresistiblein my book, so, I think that's
wonderful.
They also say.
Caesar salad.
John Puma (23:05):
okay.
I'm here for that.
And I think that this would goreally well with that.
Uh, okay.
Timothy Sullivan (23:12):
They said fruit.
Fruit platter.
John Puma (23:14):
Sure.
Timothy Sullivan (23:15):
Yeah.
I don't sit around with a fruitplatter all
John Puma (23:18):
No.
Yeah.
me either.
And so I'm like, yeah, I guessthat would work.
Sure.
Timothy Sullivan (23:26):
And also in the dessert section they also
say cheesecake with blueberrysauce.
John Puma (23:32):
That's very specific.
Timothy Sullivan (23:35):
I'm not a big fan.
Scott will tell you, I'm not abig fan of blueberry in general,
but just plain cheesecake.
I could see this.
It has the sweetness to put afoot, put a foot into dessert
territory, but I don't think youneed to like, this isn't so
sweet that I feel like it's adessert sake.
What do you think?
John Puma (23:55):
I don't, no, I don't think it's there.
I think that the Caesar saladkind of made my eyes light up a
little bit.
That sounded nice.
I have also found therecommendations, uh, at least,
uh, I think these are from theimporter as well.
I see also roast beef here.
That's an interesting idea.
That's like a, a, a, you know,a heavier flavor.
And I think that the highacidity on this would, would
(24:16):
perhaps, be tamed a little bitby it.
I think.
I think that's a fun way tohave it.
I'd be interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (24:23):
Yeah, well, let's come up with our own food
pairing recommendations too.
This is, it's not easy, butthis is a muscle that we have to
exercise.
Like we have to envision ourfood pairing options.
And the more you do it, theeasier it gets to kind of
envision what you would havewith this.
So I really like the idea of asalad for sure.
(24:45):
Caesar salad sounds great.
Raspberry vinegarette would begreat.
I often go to that with sake,and I think this would pair
really well with, pardon me,John, but a, a cheese, cheese
plate.
This is a sake I would featurein my cheese pairing class for
John Puma (25:03):
I was, I was just about to ask you that.
Timothy Sullivan (25:05):
Yeah.
John Puma (25:07):
Um, great.
And I also, so, um, do youthink that something with Lemon
would clash with this?
Timothy Sullivan (25:14):
Hmm.
I think the, the acidity from alemon based vinegarette or a
lemon dressing would be great.
And that makes me also think ofsomething like a lemon chicken,
you know?
Um, I love lemon chicken and Ithink that would go great with
this.
Okay.
So we won't go hungry.
And there's lots, there's lotsto pair with this sake.
John Puma (25:36):
Yes, I, I agree.
Timothy Sullivan (25:39):
And you know, when you see those numbers on
the stats, like acidity 2.5, SMVminus 20, it's like, oh my God,
what am I gonna do with thisthing?
It's out of bounds in a lot ofways but tasting it, it's like,
oh, this is not that crazy.
After all, this is not a funkysake for our funky sake series,
I
John Puma (25:58):
it is not.
No, no.
It is definitely not funky.
Uh, and we mean that we don'tmean that as an insult.
Um, yeah, no, this is not afunky sake.
It is a really well balancedsake.
The numbers may make you think,oh my God, this is going to be
absolutely insane.
But because you, you have ahigh number on either side,
(26:19):
it's, meeting in the middle in away.
And it's really nice.
Timothy Sullivan (26:24):
Yeah, it's the alcohol acidity and, sweetness,
all balance each other out.
And, uh, it definitely leansmore on the sweet side.
I think if you buy the sake,you should know it's gonna be on
the sweeter side, but it's notoverpowering, it's not out of
balance and super unique.
And I think it's great that wecan, uh, have new yeast
(26:48):
varieties like this.
This LED.
Dream yeast or LED you may,and, have it produce these
interesting, flavors I think isgreat.
And, I'm excited to see.
I know that a few other brewersin Tokushima are gonna be using
this yeast as well, so maybe wecan get our hands on another
LED sake that uses this yeastand do a taste comparison.
(27:12):
That would be fun for a futureepisode.
John Puma (27:14):
That would be a lot of fun.
And is, there's one last thingI want to, to, to talk about
here with this and that is, tome at least, and feel free, I
definitely want to get your,feedback.
But I think that this is asake, we want to definitely
serve more on the colder side ofthings.
Uh, it does not feel likesomething that we wanna warm up
too much and it doesn't feellike something that's gonna love
being.
Uh, love being all that roomtemperature, either, uh, I don't
(27:39):
know what your thoughts are.
Timothy Sullivan (27:41):
It doesn't matter what my thoughts are,
John.
The back label says, servechilled.
Only the brewery is telling usServe chilled only.
I.
John Puma (27:53):
the power of the brewery compels us.
Well then I'm glad I, uh,brought that up.
Timothy Sullivan (28:01):
Yeah, so the brewery recommends 51 degrees
Fahrenheit.
If you go into their, deepernotes online, they say that 51
Fahrenheit is the magictemperature, which is quite,
quite cold for sake.
And so they want this wellchilled, and I think that helps
hold the integrity of the saketogether.
(28:22):
Like maybe when it gets towardsroom temperature, it becomes a
little more flabby.
But, uh, I think.
Um, when it's chilled, it kindof keeps it a little crisper on
the finish.
And, uh, I, I would agree withthat.
So I think chilled is the wayto go.
John Puma (28:35):
Hmm.
Alright, well, Tim, this hasbeen a lot of fun.
We had a, a nice new, excitingsake and I, I like the series
too, like that.
We're putting a spotlight onKobo.
Um,
Timothy Sullivan (28:46):
Who knew that a irradiation and mutation could
be so much fun?
John Puma (28:51):
be X-Men anyway.
Timothy Sullivan (28:57):
well, well, John, it was so much fun to
taste with you.
Thanks for sharing this sakewith me.
And, um, I wanna thank ourlisteners as well for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed our show.
Now, if you are one of our.
Patreon supporters, we want tosend you a special hi.
Hello, and thank you forsupporting us.
(29:17):
If any listeners out there arenot in our Patreon community and
you'd like to join, visitpatreon.com/sake revolution.
And join us.
We have a monthly live happyhour the first Wednesday of
every month, and you can talk tous live in person on Zoom, and
we'd love to see you there.
So join us on Patreon.
John Puma (29:37):
And, when you have a chance, if you'd like other ways
to support our show, pleasemention us to people, you know,
mention us to your friends.
Also, I.
Give us a little shout on yourpodcast platform of choice, a
little review, whatever amountof stars you think is
appropriate.
goes a long way towards gettingour podcast to the top of the,
relevant charts.
(29:59):
When people search for Sakepodcast, we want them to find
Sake Revolution, and this willhelp out.
So on that note, Tim, raiseyour glass.
Remember to keep drinking sakeanpaiand K.
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