December 12, 2023 • 30 mins
Episode 160. It's time to get wild again! Wild about sake rice, that is. Wild Rice is our series where we look closer at different strains of sake rice and what makes them unique. This time around, we look to a rice native to Hiroshima Prefecture - Hattannishiki. Known to not grow as tall as other sake rice, but still have a well developed shinpaku (starchy core) Hattannishiki is a fairly modern rice, as it was developed in the 1970's. Let's dive in and see what flavors Hattannishiki has in store for us! #sakerevolution
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Puma (00:21):
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's first sakepodcast and.
I'm your host, John Puma fromthe Sake Notes.
Also, the administrator at theinternet Sake Discord.
Do come and join us sometime.
And also, I run Reddit's r slashsake community.
Join us there, too.
Timothy Sullivan (00:40):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai, I'm a sakeeducator, as well as the founder
of the Urban Sake website.
and every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, doing ourbest to make it fun and easy to
understand.
So, John, how have you beendoing?
Have you had any good sakeadventures or any tastings
you've done recently that havebeen fun or exciting?
John Puma (01:03):
Uh, taste sake that I like all the time, Tim.
It's one of the, one of thewonders of, uh, of, of honestly,
it's one of the nice thingsabout living in New York is that
you do have access to a lot ofoptions, a lot of variety.
and I'm also, you know, startingto plan.
We're going to Japan in a coupleof months, so yeah, working on,
uh, working on our itinerary,where we're going to go, what
(01:25):
we're going to do, who we'regoing to see,
Timothy Sullivan (01:27):
It takes, it takes more planning than you
would think to successfully pulloff a sake trip to Japan, I
think.
John Puma (01:34):
It's, it's a little bit, yeah.
If you, if you think you canjust wing it when you get there,
you might, um, yeah.
I mean, for going to Japan, youcan wing it when you get there,
but for to focus on sake stuff,it's a little bit trickier,
because people, believe it ornot, the people who run these
establishments and breweries,they have lives, and they are
very busy.
(01:56):
And you've got to be respectfulof their time as well.
So, it does take a little bit ofdoing.
Timothy Sullivan (02:03):
Yes, planning really does help if you're going
to Japan and you want toexperience some sake things.
I wholeheartedly agree withthat.
John Puma (02:09):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (02:10):
So what are we going to be talking about today?
John Puma (02:13):
Well, today we're going to, have a little bit of a
combination of old and newtoday.
We're going to revisit our wildrice series.
And the sake we're going todrink It's actually a returning
brand, but we'll get to that ina little bit.
Timothy Sullivan (02:27):
all right.
So we're going to talk aboutwild rice.
Things might get a little wildin here.
So who knows what will happen.
John Puma (02:34):
It's Not a crazy rice.
Timothy Sullivan (02:36):
Not crazy rice.
We'll see.
We'll see.
All right.
Yeah.
So we're going to touch on a, astrain of sake rice that we
haven't focused on for a wholeepisode yet.
And we've done some other ricestrains in the past.
We've done Omachi.
I know that we've done YamadaNishiki.
And today we're going to betalking about another famous
(02:56):
Nishiki.
Uh, this is Hattan Nishiki.
John Puma (03:00):
Hattan Nishiki.
Yes, yes, yes.
I, if memory serves, this is a,when I think of Hattan Nishiki,
I think of Hiroshima.
Timothy Sullivan (03:08):
Yes, Hattanishiki is born in
Hiroshima, and it's a, I guess,a relatively recent rice
concoction.
Uh, Hattanishiki was created,crossbred, in the 1970s, and the
parents of Hattanishiki areHattan 35 Go and Akitsuho.
(03:32):
So those are two rice varietiesthat were cross bred to make
Hattan nishiki.
And this happened in Hiroshima.
John Puma (03:41):
That's interesting.
Typically when, you know, whenwe hear about these rice
varieties, it's often like, oh,we took Omachi and we took like
yamada, or Yeah, we didsomething with that and, and
played off of it.
I'm not familiar with either ofthese two rices that this one
was crossbred to, to create.
So that's very interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (03:59):
Yeah.
So, you know, they did a lot ofthis cross breeding to try to
get new and exciting andinteresting rice varieties that
had certain characteristics toit.
And when they created Hattannishiki, they discovered a few
things that were actuallyadvantages that other rice
(04:19):
varieties didn't specialize in.
And the first one is the heightof the stalk.
So Hattan nishiki is actually ashort king.
John Puma (04:29):
wasn't ready for that one.
Sorry.
Timothy Sullivan (04:36):
so, Most sake rice is known for growing taller
than standard eating rice, butHattan nishiki is actually a
little short by the standards ofwhat you would say for regular
sake rice, so we can say underthree feet.
And the advantage to this isthat it keeps the rice from
(04:58):
lodging.
And that's a word we learnedfrom Whitney at Isbell Farms.
Lodging is when the rice fallsover and kind of lands on the
ground and might get stuck inthe mud or the paddy.
And to prevent that fromhappening, the, the actually
shorter stalks are a little lessprone to that because they're
(05:18):
not up in the air as much.
And if there's a typhoon orstrong winds come through, they
have a little bit moreresistance to falling over.
And they have a really niceamount of shimpaku in their
structure..
So the starchy core is reallyprominent, and that's exactly
what you want to see when you'recultivating new sake rice.
(05:39):
And I think the amount ofproduction of Hattanishiki is
about, I think it ranks, sixthin overall production.
So five other rice varieties areproduced in more volume.
I think Hattanishiki is, isranked about sixth.
It changes from year to year,but I think last stats I looked
(06:00):
up, it was around the sixth mostproduced sake rice.
Yeah,
John Puma (06:05):
cool.
It seems to me like a lot of thefactors with this, with this
rice are, are practical, theshortness, uh, to, to make us
easier to harvest, the, youknow, the.
Shinpaku, you know, it seemslike it's just seems like a
really solid rice to use,whenever you can.
And it's, I I'm not surprisedthat it's so well known that's
being used so much because itdoes seem like, it seems like a
(06:27):
really easy rice to work with,relatively speaking.
Timothy Sullivan (06:31):
but this, this rice strain, Hattanishiki, is
really very, very closely tiedwith Hiroshima.
the place of its origin.
And, you know, Omachi is reallyfamous from Okayama, and Yamada
Nishiki is really famous fromHyogo, and I think Hattan
Nishiki is just tiedintrinsically with Hiroshima.
And you, you and I did anepisode, episode 23, dedicated
(06:54):
to our stories in Hiroshima,and, we tasted Hattan Nishiki at
that time, and now we're goingto focus in and revisit and see
what makes it.
So delicious and so compelling,right?
John Puma (07:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yes, Tim, as you mentioned,this sake was previously
featured in episode 23.
And it is the, uh, Joto, quote,the one with the clocks, uh,
Daiginjo.
Someone at Joto clearly, has anaffinity for Friends, the, the
old TV show.
so number one, Joto Daiginjo,is, is a white labeled sake.
(07:32):
It is one that is, relabeled,you know, when it's brought over
to the United States, but it'ssold under a different name in
Japan.
Now, now, Tim, how often doesthis kind of thing happen and,
and what's the story behindthat?
Timothy Sullivan (07:44):
Well, we did an episode on white labeling or
rebranding of sake, and it'sbecoming, I think, more common
than it used to be.
You know, if a restaurant wantsto produce their own, shall we
say, vanity label, or their ownbrand of sake, the easiest way
to do that is simply to buy sakefrom a brewery, put it in a
(08:05):
bottle, and put your own labelon it and say, this is our sake.
John Puma (08:08):
Mm.
Uh
Timothy Sullivan (08:10):
with this white labeling thing that I
think Joto does really well hereis that they are completely
transparent about where the sakecomes from, who makes it.
They're, they're proud to saythat this is from this producer.
And that is, in my book, theonly way to fly.
Because if you're hiding who theproducer is in your sake, like,
(08:30):
why are you Even doing that,that does not make a lick of
sense to me.
So, what I think Joto is doingreally well here is that they
wanted to create a brand, theirown brand.
I think, I would imagine, tomake sake accessible in their
view.
You know, to give it a westernlabel and easy to understand and
(08:51):
easy to introduce.
Um, so I think they picked aJunmai and a Junmai Daiginjo and
a Junmai Ginjo.
And, um,
John Puma (08:59):
I think I nigori as
Timothy Sullivan (09:00):
as well, yeah.
And, uh, do you think that'strue that they're trying to make
their own line to make itaccessible to people and easy to
approach?
John Puma (09:10):
I do.
I think that they, I think thatthey position them as sort of a,
I don't want to use the wordentry level cause this is a
Daiginjo that we're going to betalking about.
I do think that the idea is tokind of, you know, Give
somebody, uh, who may be alittle intimidated by Japanese
sake labels, and this issomething that we've talked
about in the show many times,uh, giving them something that's
(09:31):
a little bit more friendly, alittle bit more, specific, a
little bit more Englishfriendly, I think a little more
Western friendly label so thatit looks more approachable,
something that you're notintimidated by, and there's no
Japanese on it.
It's like, Oh, this isinteresting and it looks cool
and blah, blah, blah.
So I think that that's probablya lot of the thought process
behind it.
you know, also, even though thisline of Joto branded sake, each
(09:55):
one, I think just about everyone of them is from a different
one of their breweries thatthey, that they feature.
So it's kind of like they'reshowcasing a different one on
each.
I think that's also reallyinteresting because if you go
through all of the differentJoto Labeled sake's you'll get a
feel for their whole lineup ofdifferent brands that they
(10:15):
represent And that's I thinkthat's probably not an accident
also, you know So I think that'sa it's a good way to introduce
new people to what to theirbrand family I guess to be a
good way of put it
Timothy Sullivan (10:26):
all right.
So, as we established, this sakeis released from Joto, but it is
really produced by the NakaoBrewery in Hiroshima.
And this sake is sold under adifferent name.
label in Japan.
It's the Maboroshi label, right?
John Puma (10:43):
right, right Maboroshi meaning like mystery
and it's a it's a But one of thethings that, that separates the
Mahi brand from the other onesthat Nakao produces is that they
actually use, uh, apple yeast.
It's a, it's a Hana kobo.
And we've talked a little biton, on past episodes about a lot
(11:05):
of past episodes are culminatingon this chat we're having today.
Tim so yes, this is the yeastfrom the, the Apple Blossom that
they've been able to cultivateand, and use to, um, to make
this sake and to make the othersakes in the Maboroshi line.
Nakao also has another linecalled Seikyo, which you may
(11:25):
have almost certainly hadbefore.
Really really great stuff top tobottom from this brewery.
And this sake that we're goingto talk about today, the one
with the clocks, also because itis, as you mentioned, a
Maboroshi sake, is also usingapple yeast as well.
Timothy Sullivan (11:41):
Awesome.
So why don't you give us thestats for the one with the
clocks, Daiginjo?
That name just rolls off thetongue.
The one with the clocks,Daiginjo.
John Puma (11:51):
I think we buried the lead a little bit here.
So this is of course, uh, ourHattan Nishiki episode.
So obviously the rice in usehere is Hattan nishiki.
Who knew?
the Seimaibuai, the millingpercentage is 50%.
As we mentioned, the brewery isNakao.
Apple yeast in use here.
the acidity is 1.
3.
(12:11):
which is very reasonable.
And the sake meter value is aplus five.
And Tim, you know, what's reallyinteresting.
We don't get a lot of these.
This is not a Junmai Daiginjo.
This is a Daiginjo.
This is aruten, as this is aalcohol added.
Now, you know, we've talkedabout this many times on the
show before alcohol added doesnot mean it's like they're
(12:32):
fortifying it with, to make itboozy.
It means that they have addedsome neutral spirits during the
earlier part of the brewingprocess in order to bring out
some of the aromas.
Is that, is that a good way ofputting it, Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (12:43):
Yes, they add a distillate of usually
sugarcane, a neutral spirit, onthe last day of fermentation of
the moromi or the main mash.
And then that dissolvesadditional rice particles and
allows, untapped aromas andflavors to come out.
So it's just a, a alternate.
Slightly alternate productionmethod that is allowed in Japan
(13:05):
and this is a rare Daiginjo.
You're absolutely right.
We don't see as many Daiginjosas Junmai Daiginjos.
John Puma (13:13):
I think there's a, a big.
Junmai sakes are very popularright now.
I think it's a nice way ofputting it There's a big like a
thrust towards the pure ricesake And so I think that Aruten
is a little bit less a littlebit less popular these days But
hopefully you can come make acomeback.
I think that would be nicebecause some of those aromas are
really really fun
Timothy Sullivan (13:32):
Absolutely.
So this has a lot, readingthrough these stats here, this
has a lot of things that areappealing to me for sure.
50 percent rice polish, appleyeast, mild acidity, uh,
Daiginjo grade.
This is lining up to be a realstunner, I think.
John Puma (13:52):
yes it is.
Timothy Sullivan (13:53):
Well, there's only one way to find out.
Should we dive in and get thisin the glass?
Okay, so I'm picking up thebottle, getting ready to pour,
and I noticed, John, this has avery distinct label.
What do you see here?
John Puma (14:04):
Uh, there's a lot of clocks.
Timothy Sullivan (14:05):
Yes!
John Puma (14:08):
So, um, all right, so, uh, this label is actually
primarily white with gold andsilver foil inlays.
Um, for the most part, the goldand silver foil for the vast
majority of this label areusing, are used to make little
clock dial, little clocks onthem to show you, uh, I think
every, Just about every time ofday possible, perhaps,
Timothy Sullivan (14:31):
I don't know what time it is looking at this.
John Puma (14:33):
no, no, I do not know what time of day it is, but you
know, this is definitely the onewith the clocks.
There's a lot of clocks on it.
and on the, on the side, and itactually, it says, uh, it takes
72 hours to mill or polish abatch of rice for this sake.
Only the best 50 percent isused.
And that's in English, becauseagain, this is a white labeled
(14:54):
sake for the Western market.
Very, very modern label, I wantto say.
says, uh, This Daiginjo isdelicate, soft, and clean,
showing hints of green apple.
It should be served Chilled andpaired with salads, grilled
chicken, sushi, and sashimi.
And again, this is all on thefront label.
This is stuff that usually getkind of like buried in the back,
(15:17):
but I think when you're able todo the whole label for your
brand, you can put thisinformation up front and you can
put this information front andcenter.
So the potential buyer can lookat that and go like, Oh, well,
wait a minute.
That's interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (15:31):
Yes.
And it also says on the frontlabel, there's more.
It says, Since 2005, Joto Sakehas meticulously selected every
brewery and every sake weimport.
This Daiginjo is no exception.
So they have a lot of messagingon this front
John Puma (15:47):
Yes, it's a lot of language and a lot of clocks.
Timothy Sullivan (15:51):
but I want to call your attention to the back
label just briefly.
There is something really uniqueand interesting that you don't
see every day and mine has adate stamp on it.
John Puma (16:03):
So does mine.
Timothy Sullivan (16:05):
Yes, what does your date stamp say?
John Puma (16:07):
Uh, my date stamp says 04.
06.
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (16:14):
OK, mine say 04.09.
John Puma (16:18):
So, uh, this is interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (16:20):
Is it 2004?
John Puma (16:23):
I was, I was recently visiting my family down in
Florida and there's a TotalWines, Total Wines is a very big
Timothy Sullivan (16:32):
Yeah, big corporate wine store
John Puma (16:33):
Yes, Yes, Uh, and they carry a lot of Joto
products in their sake section.
They actually have a sakesection, at least the one near
my parents place in Florida.
And so I grabbed a bottle ofMaboroshi.
They had a bottle of Maboroshithere.
And it also had a date that wasvery similar.
And I was immediately concernedthat perhaps it meant 2004 or
(16:58):
perhaps 2006.
And then I remembered,
Timothy Sullivan (17:03):
Hmm.
John Puma (17:04):
yes,
Timothy Sullivan (17:06):
What did you remember?
John Puma (17:07):
I remembered that they reset the brewing year when
the new emperor took over.
Timothy Sullivan (17:14):
Yes.
John Puma (17:15):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (17:16):
A
John Puma (17:17):
all of my concerns melted away.
Timothy Sullivan (17:20):
My sake student, John Puma, gets an A
plus for this, this lesson.
Yes.
So a lot of breweries use theWestern calendar year to label
their sake, and they're going tostamp a year.
So it might be 23.
09.
That would be September 2023,and that's what you would expect
to see, but this says 0409.
(17:43):
So, 04 is actually the Emperor'syear, and the current Emperor
ascended to the throne in 2019.
So, they refer to the Emperor'syear as, that was Reiwa.
One.
And, uh, we're in Reiwa fournow.
So, this was a fresh bottle ofsake.
(18:04):
You don't have to worry.
And, uh, super fresh, actually.
So Reiwa four is the Emperor'syear.
And the reason I called that outis because it is pretty rare to
see this on the label.
So I think that, uh, NakaoBrewery in Hiroshima is pretty
traditionalist.
Like this is old schoollabeling, even on their label,
(18:25):
their white label bottle.
John Puma (18:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very cool.
I think that, you know, again, Iwas a little concerned.
And then I realized that, oh,this must be the emperor's year.
And then I tasted it.
And I was like, oh, this is,this is so fresh.
It was, I think this isabsolutely not from 2004.
Because it was still like, oh,what if I'm wrong?
But no, I definitely was notwrong.
(18:49):
Uh, so
Timothy Sullivan (18:50):
2004, you'd have a real vintage bottle on
your hands, collector's item.
All right, let's get this openand in the glass.
All right, let's give it asmell.
John Puma (19:07):
I, I, I couldn't help but give it a smell when I was
pouring it into the glass.
Timothy Sullivan (19:10):
Hmm, very fragrant.
John Puma (19:13):
Oh my goodness.
Timothy Sullivan (19:14):
It's intense.
The fruitiness is intense.
John Puma (19:18):
it makes me think of, uh, Which is, it's so juicy in
the aroma.
It promises a juicy experienceto me.
A juicy, fruity experience.
Nice and ripe and big.
Timothy Sullivan (19:32):
And this is what I would classify as a bit
of a fruit salad aroma.
You know when you have a superfresh fruit salad and you smell
it and there's melon and grapeand pineapple and everything
together?
It's kind of like the classicginjo aroma.
This has it in spades.
John Puma (19:49):
Absolutely.
Timothy Sullivan (19:51):
They boiled it down to green apple on the front
label.
They said this smells like greenapple.
John Puma (19:56):
So when I think of Green Apple, I'm thinking like
Granny Smith, but that's so muchmore, like, acidic.
Uh, and I don't get a lot ofthat on the nose of this at all.
I get all the other fruits.
I get subtle apple.
But when I think of green apple,I just think of Granny Smith.
Maybe they're referring to adifferent kind of green apple
because Lord knows while we wererecording this episode, they've
probably produced two newstrains of apple.
(20:17):
I don't even need to, I don'teven need to drink this.
I can just take the aroma at allnight.
It's so nice.
Timothy Sullivan (20:22):
Puma.
I was thinking the exact samething.
I haven't taken a sip yet, andI'm just like, I can just keep
on smelling this.
John Puma (20:30):
It's, it's so pleasant.
It's just, oh, it just makes mehappy.
Timothy Sullivan (20:35):
This is right up your, right up your alley.
John Puma (20:37):
Oh, absolutely.
Totally.
Timothy Sullivan (20:40):
It's fruity.
It's concentrated.
There's a lot going on in adense space in this aroma.
Very perfumed, very, expressive.
But if they were going forginjo, mission accomplished,
right?
John Puma (20:56):
Yeah.
And it's, you know, I wonder howmuch of this comes from the fact
that it's Aruten, how much ofthis is coming from that yeast,
how much is it coming from therice getting out of the way and
that, and that, and that 50percent milling.
It's such a fun question for me.
It's like, all right, where isthis coming from exactly?
But so, so this aroma is sobeautiful though.
Timothy Sullivan (21:17):
Yeah.
I think that it's a combinationof everything like Daiginjo, The
Aruten style, the alcohol addedstyle, is known to be more
aromatic, especially in theDaiginjo category.
And I think that that reallycomes through here.
The apple yeast, I mean, comeon, that's known as being super,
um, fruit forward as well.
John Puma (21:40):
Yeah, and I think that in the past we've talked
about when we were discussingAruten that breweries will often
use Daiginjo as theircompetition sake because it lets
them harness those aromas andjust go to town and they are,
they're having some fun withthis one.
It is intense.
Timothy Sullivan (21:58):
Yes.
We looked on the Joto website,and they said that this, as we
mentioned before, this Daiginjois sold under the Maboroshi
Brand in Japan, and this is oneof three Daiginjos they make
under that brand.
And this is the entry level one,the entry level Daiginjo.
There's two more above this.
(22:18):
Can you imagine the aromas onthose?
John Puma (22:21):
I mean, I'm willing to learn if somebody wants to
show me.
Wow.
Maboroshi,
Timothy Sullivan (22:27):
if you're listening,
John Puma (22:29):
Yes.
Alright, I think we've put itoff long enough.
I think it's time to
Timothy Sullivan (22:33):
Okay.
Yes.
John Puma (22:35):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (22:35):
talking.
Start tasting.
Here we go.
Mmm.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I have to say, I get green appleon the palate.
It tastes more like green applethan it smells.
John Puma (22:49):
I think so, too.
I agree.
Timothy Sullivan (22:51):
It
John Puma (22:51):
And it's lovely.
Timothy Sullivan (22:53):
it's very lovely.
Yeah.
The green apple comes across,for me, on the palate much more
than in the aroma.
But really lovely, superpleasing on the palate.
Not shy.
It has some body to it.
John Puma (23:08):
hmm.
it is surprisingly full bodied.
I kind of thought it was goingto be a little, um, dainty.
But definitely not.
Timothy Sullivan (23:17):
So the alcohol percentage here is 16%.
So just a smidge above average.
John Puma (23:24):
Just a touch.
And there is, for me at least,there's that, there is that tiny
little burn at the end there.
Tiny little bit of the alcoholburn, but it's so, so, such a
pleasure to sip on.
And this is, as you pointed outthere, entry level, huh?
Timothy Sullivan (23:40):
This is their entry level Daiginjo.
Yeah, yeah.
So, uh, Hattanishiki, you know,honestly, I don't know what role
the rice itself plays in thisparticular flavor.
It feels like for me, the yeastis really the star of the show
when it comes to producing thisuber, uber ginjo aroma.
(24:03):
But I do think that Hattanishikiis known for creating elegant
styles of sake and, a little bitricher in, in palate.
So I think that both of thoseline up with the sake very, very
well.
This isn't a rice that I thinkis going to produce like super
duper clean light sake.
John Puma (24:24):
Hmm.
I think that we've definitelyhad other sakes on the show
before that featured HattanNishiki.
The Fukucho moon on the water,that we've had on, that, uh, was
a blend.
It was Hattan Nishiki and YamadaNishiki.
Back when we were talking aboutsake breweries in Tokyo a long,
long time ago, uh, we had the,Joemon from Kinkon, and that
(24:47):
uses Hattan nishiki all the wayover in Tokyo.
Timothy Sullivan (24:50):
Hmm.
John Puma (24:51):
And that, I think, was like a, uh, it was like a
muroka Genshu Junmai, so it wasa bigger, a bigger flavor.
So this is, it's an interesting,I want to say this is almost
like an interesting riceselection for what they're doing
with this sake, because I thinkyou're right.
It is, um, maybe the yeast isthe star of the show here.
And that the rice is a littlebit richer or bringing something
a little bit richer.
Timothy Sullivan (25:11):
Yeah, I think it gives body to this sake.
If you have this much perfumedaroma, you don't want a sake
that's going to be watery andtoo light.
So I think that this, grain fromthe Hattani Nishiki brings a lot
of shinpaku to it, a good amountof weight, and is going to give
some heft to the body.
(25:31):
So it's not just all aromaheavy.
That's what I kind of thinkhere.
John Puma (25:37):
so Tim, this is, this is going to be a tricky one.
I don't want to stump you toomuch, but I think this is gonna
be a little bit tricky.
What about food?
Timothy Sullivan (25:47):
I was just going to ask you if
John Puma (25:49):
I
Timothy Sullivan (25:50):
had
John Puma (25:50):
beat you to it.
Timothy Sullivan (25:51):
touche.
I was just going to ask you ifyou had any.
Memories from your, uh, severaltrips to Hiroshima, if you think
any food you had there would bea good pairing for this sake,
because, you know, we like tothink about loc locality.
John Puma (26:10):
well, it's weird because like the local food
there is like okonomiyaki andthat Is not going to be what I'm
going to choose to pair thiswith.
It's way too, um, way too big.
Uh, having said that, I havehad, there's a couple of really
nice, uh, tempura shops.
(26:30):
in Hiroshima and it's, I know onits face you think tempura, you
may be thinking, uh, it'sgreasy, it's oily, it's, it's
really good tempura when you getit from a place that's really,
that's very good at makingtempura.
Uh, it's not like that at all.
It's, it's light and crisp and,and, uh, you know, the outside
(26:52):
is very, is, is nice andcrunchy.
The inside is very soft.
It's really, really, it does agreat job of, Accentuating the,
the qualities of the ingredientthat's being used of the, you
know, so if you're having like ashrimp or if you're having like
a, I've had, I had a pumpkinslice that was, that was
tempura.
Is that the right,
Timothy Sullivan (27:10):
Well, yeah, that is the verb.
John Puma (27:13):
I had a pumpkin slice that was, Tempura ed, uh, and I
was very, I was very skeptical.
I was like, this is, I don'tknow about this.
And it was absolutely fabulous.
It was really, really nice.
Timothy Sullivan (27:24):
And that would be great with this, because
you're right, it's not heavy,it's not doughy, it's not
greasy.
It's light, crispy, crunchy.
And the thing about high endtempura that's amazing is that
the flavor of whatever is insidereally comes through.
John Puma (27:37):
Yes, when they're doing it right, that's 100%.
Um, and, and, you know, and alsoguys, if you happen to be in
Japan and you're, and you wantto experience something like
this, it's also, this can bedone very inexpensively.
It's not something like, uh,it's not going to be like a
hundred dollar night.
You can have really greattempura for like, honestly, I
had one of the most amazingtempura lunches, that I've ever
(28:00):
had in my life for, under 10 US.
That's absolutely wonderful.
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (28:07):
amazing.
And that's a really good advice.
You don't have to spend a ton ofmoney to eat like a king in
Japan because it is so many goodplaces are really affordable and
lunch is, that's the secretword, like you can go to some of
these high end restaurants fortheir lunch service and for a
fraction of the cost, you canget an amazing, amazing meal.
John Puma (28:27):
Yes.
And you're going to leave full.
It's not, uh, don't thinkthey're skimping on it because
it's lunch.
It's absolutely wonderful stuff.
Um, all
Timothy Sullivan (28:34):
think you've cra I think you've cracked the
code.
So, uh,
John Puma (28:38):
I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to test this
Timothy Sullivan (28:40):
Daiginjo
John Puma (28:40):
out.
I don't know.
That's how science works.
Right.
Timothy Sullivan (28:44):
Yes, that's awesome.
Well, I, I love that.
And, uh, I think next chance Iget, I'm going to have a
delicious fruity Daiginjo withtempura and test out your
theory, but I'm on board.
Sold.
John Puma (28:57):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Timothy Sullivan (28:58):
All right.
Well, John, it was so great totaste with you today.
I hope you had fun exploring alittle bit about Hattan nishiki.
It's a very interesting rice,and the thing I love about it is
that it's so specific toHiroshima.
And opens the door to studyingabout that great region.
So, uh, whenever you seeHiroshima, check the sake rice
(29:21):
and see if you're sipping onsome delicious Hattan nishiki.
A special thank you to all ofour listeners.
Thanks for tuning in today.
We hope that you're enjoyingSake Revolution.
And if you are, and you'd liketo join us as a supporter,
please visitPatreon.com/SakeRevolution.
And there you can learn moreabout joining our Patreon.
John Puma (29:41):
Other ways that you can support Sake Revolution
include going to our website andchecking out our store.
So we have a nice little link toour shop on the website and we
sell t shirts, we sell stickers.
Timothy Sullivan (29:53):
And the holidays are coming up.
John Puma (29:55):
And the holidays are coming up so maybe, you know,
you want to get a t shirt forthe sake fan in your life.
Hopefully they know about theshow too.
That'd be a little weird if yougot them a t shirt from a
podcast that they've never heardof, but hey, you know, or if it
gets them to listen to the show,it's even better.
So anyway, please raise a glassof your favorite Hattan nishiki
(30:16):
sake.
Remember to keep drinking sakeand kanpai,
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Sake Revolution.
This is America's first sakepodcast and.
I'm your host, John Puma fromthe Sake Notes.
Also, the administrator at theinternet Sake Discord.
Do come and join us sometime.
And also, I run Reddit's r slashsake community.
Join us there, too.
Timothy Sullivan (00:40):
And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan.
I'm a Sake Samurai, I'm a sakeeducator, as well as the founder
of the Urban Sake website.
and every week, John and I willbe here tasting and chatting
about all things sake, doing ourbest to make it fun and easy to
understand.
So, John, how have you beendoing?
Have you had any good sakeadventures or any tastings
you've done recently that havebeen fun or exciting?
John Puma (01:03):
Uh, taste sake that I like all the time, Tim.
It's one of the, one of thewonders of, uh, of, of honestly,
it's one of the nice thingsabout living in New York is that
you do have access to a lot ofoptions, a lot of variety.
and I'm also, you know, startingto plan.
We're going to Japan in a coupleof months, so yeah, working on,
uh, working on our itinerary,where we're going to go, what
(01:25):
we're going to do, who we'regoing to see,
Timothy Sullivan (01:27):
It takes, it takes more planning than you
would think to successfully pulloff a sake trip to Japan, I
think.
John Puma (01:34):
It's, it's a little bit, yeah.
If you, if you think you canjust wing it when you get there,
you might, um, yeah.
I mean, for going to Japan, youcan wing it when you get there,
but for to focus on sake stuff,it's a little bit trickier,
because people, believe it ornot, the people who run these
establishments and breweries,they have lives, and they are
very busy.
(01:56):
And you've got to be respectfulof their time as well.
So, it does take a little bit ofdoing.
Timothy Sullivan (02:03):
Yes, planning really does help if you're going
to Japan and you want toexperience some sake things.
I wholeheartedly agree withthat.
John Puma (02:09):
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (02:10):
So what are we going to be talking about today?
John Puma (02:13):
Well, today we're going to, have a little bit of a
combination of old and newtoday.
We're going to revisit our wildrice series.
And the sake we're going todrink It's actually a returning
brand, but we'll get to that ina little bit.
Timothy Sullivan (02:27):
all right.
So we're going to talk aboutwild rice.
Things might get a little wildin here.
So who knows what will happen.
John Puma (02:34):
It's Not a crazy rice.
Timothy Sullivan (02:36):
Not crazy rice.
We'll see.
We'll see.
All right.
Yeah.
So we're going to touch on a, astrain of sake rice that we
haven't focused on for a wholeepisode yet.
And we've done some other ricestrains in the past.
We've done Omachi.
I know that we've done YamadaNishiki.
And today we're going to betalking about another famous
(02:56):
Nishiki.
Uh, this is Hattan Nishiki.
John Puma (03:00):
Hattan Nishiki.
Yes, yes, yes.
I, if memory serves, this is a,when I think of Hattan Nishiki,
I think of Hiroshima.
Timothy Sullivan (03:08):
Yes, Hattanishiki is born in
Hiroshima, and it's a, I guess,a relatively recent rice
concoction.
Uh, Hattanishiki was created,crossbred, in the 1970s, and the
parents of Hattanishiki areHattan 35 Go and Akitsuho.
(03:32):
So those are two rice varietiesthat were cross bred to make
Hattan nishiki.
And this happened in Hiroshima.
John Puma (03:41):
That's interesting.
Typically when, you know, whenwe hear about these rice
varieties, it's often like, oh,we took Omachi and we took like
yamada, or Yeah, we didsomething with that and, and
played off of it.
I'm not familiar with either ofthese two rices that this one
was crossbred to, to create.
So that's very interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (03:59):
Yeah.
So, you know, they did a lot ofthis cross breeding to try to
get new and exciting andinteresting rice varieties that
had certain characteristics toit.
And when they created Hattannishiki, they discovered a few
things that were actuallyadvantages that other rice
(04:19):
varieties didn't specialize in.
And the first one is the heightof the stalk.
So Hattan nishiki is actually ashort king.
John Puma (04:29):
wasn't ready for that one.
Sorry.
Timothy Sullivan (04:36):
so, Most sake rice is known for growing taller
than standard eating rice, butHattan nishiki is actually a
little short by the standards ofwhat you would say for regular
sake rice, so we can say underthree feet.
And the advantage to this isthat it keeps the rice from
(04:58):
lodging.
And that's a word we learnedfrom Whitney at Isbell Farms.
Lodging is when the rice fallsover and kind of lands on the
ground and might get stuck inthe mud or the paddy.
And to prevent that fromhappening, the, the actually
shorter stalks are a little lessprone to that because they're
(05:18):
not up in the air as much.
And if there's a typhoon orstrong winds come through, they
have a little bit moreresistance to falling over.
And they have a really niceamount of shimpaku in their
structure..
So the starchy core is reallyprominent, and that's exactly
what you want to see when you'recultivating new sake rice.
(05:39):
And I think the amount ofproduction of Hattanishiki is
about, I think it ranks, sixthin overall production.
So five other rice varieties areproduced in more volume.
I think Hattanishiki is, isranked about sixth.
It changes from year to year,but I think last stats I looked
(06:00):
up, it was around the sixth mostproduced sake rice.
Yeah,
John Puma (06:05):
cool.
It seems to me like a lot of thefactors with this, with this
rice are, are practical, theshortness, uh, to, to make us
easier to harvest, the, youknow, the.
Shinpaku, you know, it seemslike it's just seems like a
really solid rice to use,whenever you can.
And it's, I I'm not surprisedthat it's so well known that's
being used so much because itdoes seem like, it seems like a
(06:27):
really easy rice to work with,relatively speaking.
Timothy Sullivan (06:31):
but this, this rice strain, Hattanishiki, is
really very, very closely tiedwith Hiroshima.
the place of its origin.
And, you know, Omachi is reallyfamous from Okayama, and Yamada
Nishiki is really famous fromHyogo, and I think Hattan
Nishiki is just tiedintrinsically with Hiroshima.
And you, you and I did anepisode, episode 23, dedicated
(06:54):
to our stories in Hiroshima,and, we tasted Hattan Nishiki at
that time, and now we're goingto focus in and revisit and see
what makes it.
So delicious and so compelling,right?
John Puma (07:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yes, Tim, as you mentioned,this sake was previously
featured in episode 23.
And it is the, uh, Joto, quote,the one with the clocks, uh,
Daiginjo.
Someone at Joto clearly, has anaffinity for Friends, the, the
old TV show.
so number one, Joto Daiginjo,is, is a white labeled sake.
(07:32):
It is one that is, relabeled,you know, when it's brought over
to the United States, but it'ssold under a different name in
Japan.
Now, now, Tim, how often doesthis kind of thing happen and,
and what's the story behindthat?
Timothy Sullivan (07:44):
Well, we did an episode on white labeling or
rebranding of sake, and it'sbecoming, I think, more common
than it used to be.
You know, if a restaurant wantsto produce their own, shall we
say, vanity label, or their ownbrand of sake, the easiest way
to do that is simply to buy sakefrom a brewery, put it in a
(08:05):
bottle, and put your own labelon it and say, this is our sake.
John Puma (08:08):
Mm.
Uh
Timothy Sullivan (08:10):
with this white labeling thing that I
think Joto does really well hereis that they are completely
transparent about where the sakecomes from, who makes it.
They're, they're proud to saythat this is from this producer.
And that is, in my book, theonly way to fly.
Because if you're hiding who theproducer is in your sake, like,
(08:30):
why are you Even doing that,that does not make a lick of
sense to me.
So, what I think Joto is doingreally well here is that they
wanted to create a brand, theirown brand.
I think, I would imagine, tomake sake accessible in their
view.
You know, to give it a westernlabel and easy to understand and
(08:51):
easy to introduce.
Um, so I think they picked aJunmai and a Junmai Daiginjo and
a Junmai Ginjo.
And, um,
John Puma (08:59):
I think I nigori as
Timothy Sullivan (09:00):
as well, yeah.
And, uh, do you think that'strue that they're trying to make
their own line to make itaccessible to people and easy to
approach?
John Puma (09:10):
I do.
I think that they, I think thatthey position them as sort of a,
I don't want to use the wordentry level cause this is a
Daiginjo that we're going to betalking about.
I do think that the idea is tokind of, you know, Give
somebody, uh, who may be alittle intimidated by Japanese
sake labels, and this issomething that we've talked
about in the show many times,uh, giving them something that's
(09:31):
a little bit more friendly, alittle bit more, specific, a
little bit more Englishfriendly, I think a little more
Western friendly label so thatit looks more approachable,
something that you're notintimidated by, and there's no
Japanese on it.
It's like, Oh, this isinteresting and it looks cool
and blah, blah, blah.
So I think that that's probablya lot of the thought process
behind it.
you know, also, even though thisline of Joto branded sake, each
(09:55):
one, I think just about everyone of them is from a different
one of their breweries thatthey, that they feature.
So it's kind of like they'reshowcasing a different one on
each.
I think that's also reallyinteresting because if you go
through all of the differentJoto Labeled sake's you'll get a
feel for their whole lineup ofdifferent brands that they
(10:15):
represent And that's I thinkthat's probably not an accident
also, you know So I think that'sa it's a good way to introduce
new people to what to theirbrand family I guess to be a
good way of put it
Timothy Sullivan (10:26):
all right.
So, as we established, this sakeis released from Joto, but it is
really produced by the NakaoBrewery in Hiroshima.
And this sake is sold under adifferent name.
label in Japan.
It's the Maboroshi label, right?
John Puma (10:43):
right, right Maboroshi meaning like mystery
and it's a it's a But one of thethings that, that separates the
Mahi brand from the other onesthat Nakao produces is that they
actually use, uh, apple yeast.
It's a, it's a Hana kobo.
And we've talked a little biton, on past episodes about a lot
(11:05):
of past episodes are culminatingon this chat we're having today.
Tim so yes, this is the yeastfrom the, the Apple Blossom that
they've been able to cultivateand, and use to, um, to make
this sake and to make the othersakes in the Maboroshi line.
Nakao also has another linecalled Seikyo, which you may
(11:25):
have almost certainly hadbefore.
Really really great stuff top tobottom from this brewery.
And this sake that we're goingto talk about today, the one
with the clocks, also because itis, as you mentioned, a
Maboroshi sake, is also usingapple yeast as well.
Timothy Sullivan (11:41):
Awesome.
So why don't you give us thestats for the one with the
clocks, Daiginjo?
That name just rolls off thetongue.
The one with the clocks,Daiginjo.
John Puma (11:51):
I think we buried the lead a little bit here.
So this is of course, uh, ourHattan Nishiki episode.
So obviously the rice in usehere is Hattan nishiki.
Who knew?
the Seimaibuai, the millingpercentage is 50%.
As we mentioned, the brewery isNakao.
Apple yeast in use here.
the acidity is 1.
3.
(12:11):
which is very reasonable.
And the sake meter value is aplus five.
And Tim, you know, what's reallyinteresting.
We don't get a lot of these.
This is not a Junmai Daiginjo.
This is a Daiginjo.
This is aruten, as this is aalcohol added.
Now, you know, we've talkedabout this many times on the
show before alcohol added doesnot mean it's like they're
(12:32):
fortifying it with, to make itboozy.
It means that they have addedsome neutral spirits during the
earlier part of the brewingprocess in order to bring out
some of the aromas.
Is that, is that a good way ofputting it, Tim?
Timothy Sullivan (12:43):
Yes, they add a distillate of usually
sugarcane, a neutral spirit, onthe last day of fermentation of
the moromi or the main mash.
And then that dissolvesadditional rice particles and
allows, untapped aromas andflavors to come out.
So it's just a, a alternate.
Slightly alternate productionmethod that is allowed in Japan
(13:05):
and this is a rare Daiginjo.
You're absolutely right.
We don't see as many Daiginjosas Junmai Daiginjos.
John Puma (13:13):
I think there's a, a big.
Junmai sakes are very popularright now.
I think it's a nice way ofputting it There's a big like a
thrust towards the pure ricesake And so I think that Aruten
is a little bit less a littlebit less popular these days But
hopefully you can come make acomeback.
I think that would be nicebecause some of those aromas are
really really fun
Timothy Sullivan (13:32):
Absolutely.
So this has a lot, readingthrough these stats here, this
has a lot of things that areappealing to me for sure.
50 percent rice polish, appleyeast, mild acidity, uh,
Daiginjo grade.
This is lining up to be a realstunner, I think.
John Puma (13:52):
yes it is.
Timothy Sullivan (13:53):
Well, there's only one way to find out.
Should we dive in and get thisin the glass?
Okay, so I'm picking up thebottle, getting ready to pour,
and I noticed, John, this has avery distinct label.
What do you see here?
John Puma (14:04):
Uh, there's a lot of clocks.
Timothy Sullivan (14:05):
Yes!
John Puma (14:08):
So, um, all right, so, uh, this label is actually
primarily white with gold andsilver foil inlays.
Um, for the most part, the goldand silver foil for the vast
majority of this label areusing, are used to make little
clock dial, little clocks onthem to show you, uh, I think
every, Just about every time ofday possible, perhaps,
Timothy Sullivan (14:31):
I don't know what time it is looking at this.
John Puma (14:33):
no, no, I do not know what time of day it is, but you
know, this is definitely the onewith the clocks.
There's a lot of clocks on it.
and on the, on the side, and itactually, it says, uh, it takes
72 hours to mill or polish abatch of rice for this sake.
Only the best 50 percent isused.
And that's in English, becauseagain, this is a white labeled
(14:54):
sake for the Western market.
Very, very modern label, I wantto say.
says, uh, This Daiginjo isdelicate, soft, and clean,
showing hints of green apple.
It should be served Chilled andpaired with salads, grilled
chicken, sushi, and sashimi.
And again, this is all on thefront label.
This is stuff that usually getkind of like buried in the back,
(15:17):
but I think when you're able todo the whole label for your
brand, you can put thisinformation up front and you can
put this information front andcenter.
So the potential buyer can lookat that and go like, Oh, well,
wait a minute.
That's interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (15:31):
Yes.
And it also says on the frontlabel, there's more.
It says, Since 2005, Joto Sakehas meticulously selected every
brewery and every sake weimport.
This Daiginjo is no exception.
So they have a lot of messagingon this front
John Puma (15:47):
Yes, it's a lot of language and a lot of clocks.
Timothy Sullivan (15:51):
but I want to call your attention to the back
label just briefly.
There is something really uniqueand interesting that you don't
see every day and mine has adate stamp on it.
John Puma (16:03):
So does mine.
Timothy Sullivan (16:05):
Yes, what does your date stamp say?
John Puma (16:07):
Uh, my date stamp says 04.
06.
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan (16:14):
OK, mine say 04.09.
John Puma (16:18):
So, uh, this is interesting.
Timothy Sullivan (16:20):
Is it 2004?
John Puma (16:23):
I was, I was recently visiting my family down in
Florida and there's a TotalWines, Total Wines is a very big
Timothy Sullivan (16:32):
Yeah, big corporate wine store
John Puma (16:33):
Yes, Yes, Uh, and they carry a lot of Joto
products in their sake section.
They actually have a sakesection, at least the one near
my parents place in Florida.
And so I grabbed a bottle ofMaboroshi.
They had a bottle of Maboroshithere.
And it also had a date that wasvery similar.
And I was immediately concernedthat perhaps it meant 2004 or
(16:58):
perhaps 2006.
And then I remembered,
Timothy Sullivan (17:03):
Hmm.
John Puma (17:04):
yes,
Timothy Sullivan (17:06):
What did you remember?
John Puma (17:07):
I remembered that they reset the brewing year when
the new emperor took over.
Timothy Sullivan (17:14):
Yes.
John Puma (17:15):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (17:16):
A
John Puma (17:17):
all of my concerns melted away.
Timothy Sullivan (17:20):
My sake student, John Puma, gets an A
plus for this, this lesson.
Yes.
So a lot of breweries use theWestern calendar year to label
their sake, and they're going tostamp a year.
So it might be 23.
09.
That would be September 2023,and that's what you would expect
to see, but this says 0409.
(17:43):
So, 04 is actually the Emperor'syear, and the current Emperor
ascended to the throne in 2019.
So, they refer to the Emperor'syear as, that was Reiwa.
One.
And, uh, we're in Reiwa fournow.
So, this was a fresh bottle ofsake.
(18:04):
You don't have to worry.
And, uh, super fresh, actually.
So Reiwa four is the Emperor'syear.
And the reason I called that outis because it is pretty rare to
see this on the label.
So I think that, uh, NakaoBrewery in Hiroshima is pretty
traditionalist.
Like this is old schoollabeling, even on their label,
(18:25):
their white label bottle.
John Puma (18:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very cool.
I think that, you know, again, Iwas a little concerned.
And then I realized that, oh,this must be the emperor's year.
And then I tasted it.
And I was like, oh, this is,this is so fresh.
It was, I think this isabsolutely not from 2004.
Because it was still like, oh,what if I'm wrong?
But no, I definitely was notwrong.
(18:49):
Uh, so
Timothy Sullivan (18:50):
2004, you'd have a real vintage bottle on
your hands, collector's item.
All right, let's get this openand in the glass.
All right, let's give it asmell.
John Puma (19:07):
I, I, I couldn't help but give it a smell when I was
pouring it into the glass.
Timothy Sullivan (19:10):
Hmm, very fragrant.
John Puma (19:13):
Oh my goodness.
Timothy Sullivan (19:14):
It's intense.
The fruitiness is intense.
John Puma (19:18):
it makes me think of, uh, Which is, it's so juicy in
the aroma.
It promises a juicy experienceto me.
A juicy, fruity experience.
Nice and ripe and big.
Timothy Sullivan (19:32):
And this is what I would classify as a bit
of a fruit salad aroma.
You know when you have a superfresh fruit salad and you smell
it and there's melon and grapeand pineapple and everything
together?
It's kind of like the classicginjo aroma.
This has it in spades.
John Puma (19:49):
Absolutely.
Timothy Sullivan (19:51):
They boiled it down to green apple on the front
label.
They said this smells like greenapple.
John Puma (19:56):
So when I think of Green Apple, I'm thinking like
Granny Smith, but that's so muchmore, like, acidic.
Uh, and I don't get a lot ofthat on the nose of this at all.
I get all the other fruits.
I get subtle apple.
But when I think of green apple,I just think of Granny Smith.
Maybe they're referring to adifferent kind of green apple
because Lord knows while we wererecording this episode, they've
probably produced two newstrains of apple.
(20:17):
I don't even need to, I don'teven need to drink this.
I can just take the aroma at allnight.
It's so nice.
Timothy Sullivan (20:22):
Puma.
I was thinking the exact samething.
I haven't taken a sip yet, andI'm just like, I can just keep
on smelling this.
John Puma (20:30):
It's, it's so pleasant.
It's just, oh, it just makes mehappy.
Timothy Sullivan (20:35):
This is right up your, right up your alley.
John Puma (20:37):
Oh, absolutely.
Totally.
Timothy Sullivan (20:40):
It's fruity.
It's concentrated.
There's a lot going on in adense space in this aroma.
Very perfumed, very, expressive.
But if they were going forginjo, mission accomplished,
right?
John Puma (20:56):
Yeah.
And it's, you know, I wonder howmuch of this comes from the fact
that it's Aruten, how much ofthis is coming from that yeast,
how much is it coming from therice getting out of the way and
that, and that, and that 50percent milling.
It's such a fun question for me.
It's like, all right, where isthis coming from exactly?
But so, so this aroma is sobeautiful though.
Timothy Sullivan (21:17):
Yeah.
I think that it's a combinationof everything like Daiginjo, The
Aruten style, the alcohol addedstyle, is known to be more
aromatic, especially in theDaiginjo category.
And I think that that reallycomes through here.
The apple yeast, I mean, comeon, that's known as being super,
um, fruit forward as well.
John Puma (21:40):
Yeah, and I think that in the past we've talked
about when we were discussingAruten that breweries will often
use Daiginjo as theircompetition sake because it lets
them harness those aromas andjust go to town and they are,
they're having some fun withthis one.
It is intense.
Timothy Sullivan (21:58):
Yes.
We looked on the Joto website,and they said that this, as we
mentioned before, this Daiginjois sold under the Maboroshi
Brand in Japan, and this is oneof three Daiginjos they make
under that brand.
And this is the entry level one,the entry level Daiginjo.
There's two more above this.
(22:18):
Can you imagine the aromas onthose?
John Puma (22:21):
I mean, I'm willing to learn if somebody wants to
show me.
Wow.
Maboroshi,
Timothy Sullivan (22:27):
if you're listening,
John Puma (22:29):
Yes.
Alright, I think we've put itoff long enough.
I think it's time to
Timothy Sullivan (22:33):
Okay.
Yes.
John Puma (22:35):
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan (22:35):
talking.
Start tasting.
Here we go.
Mmm.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I have to say, I get green appleon the palate.
It tastes more like green applethan it smells.
John Puma (22:49):
I think so, too.
I agree.
Timothy Sullivan (22:51):
It
John Puma (22:51):
And it's lovely.
Timothy Sullivan (22:53):
it's very lovely.
Yeah.
The green apple comes across,for me, on the palate much more
than in the aroma.
But really lovely, superpleasing on the palate.
Not shy.
It has some body to it.
John Puma (23:08):
hmm.
it is surprisingly full bodied.
I kind of thought it was goingto be a little, um, dainty.
But definitely not.
Timothy Sullivan (23:17):
So the alcohol percentage here is 16%.
So just a smidge above average.
John Puma (23:24):
Just a touch.
And there is, for me at least,there's that, there is that tiny
little burn at the end there.
Tiny little bit of the alcoholburn, but it's so, so, such a
pleasure to sip on.
And this is, as you pointed outthere, entry level, huh?
Timothy Sullivan (23:40):
This is their entry level Daiginjo.
Yeah, yeah.
So, uh, Hattanishiki, you know,honestly, I don't know what role
the rice itself plays in thisparticular flavor.
It feels like for me, the yeastis really the star of the show
when it comes to producing thisuber, uber ginjo aroma.
(24:03):
But I do think that Hattanishikiis known for creating elegant
styles of sake and, a little bitricher in, in palate.
So I think that both of thoseline up with the sake very, very
well.
This isn't a rice that I thinkis going to produce like super
duper clean light sake.
John Puma (24:24):
Hmm.
I think that we've definitelyhad other sakes on the show
before that featured HattanNishiki.
The Fukucho moon on the water,that we've had on, that, uh, was
a blend.
It was Hattan Nishiki and YamadaNishiki.
Back when we were talking aboutsake breweries in Tokyo a long,
long time ago, uh, we had the,Joemon from Kinkon, and that
(24:47):
uses Hattan nishiki all the wayover in Tokyo.
Timothy Sullivan (24:50):
Hmm.
John Puma (24:51):
And that, I think, was like a, uh, it was like a
muroka Genshu Junmai, so it wasa bigger, a bigger flavor.
So this is, it's an interesting,I want to say this is almost
like an interesting riceselection for what they're doing
with this sake, because I thinkyou're right.
It is, um, maybe the yeast isthe star of the show here.
And that the rice is a littlebit richer or bringing something
a little bit richer.
Timothy Sullivan (25:11):
Yeah, I think it gives body to this sake.
If you have this much perfumedaroma, you don't want a sake
that's going to be watery andtoo light.
So I think that this, grain fromthe Hattani Nishiki brings a lot
of shinpaku to it, a good amountof weight, and is going to give
some heft to the body.
(25:31):
So it's not just all aromaheavy.
That's what I kind of thinkhere.
John Puma (25:37):
so Tim, this is, this is going to be a tricky one.
I don't want to stump you toomuch, but I think this is gonna
be a little bit tricky.
What about food?
Timothy Sullivan (25:47):
I was just going to ask you if
John Puma (25:49):
I
Timothy Sullivan (25:50):
had
John Puma (25:50):
beat you to it.
Timothy Sullivan (25:51):
touche.
I was just going to ask you ifyou had any.
Memories from your, uh, severaltrips to Hiroshima, if you think
any food you had there would bea good pairing for this sake,
because, you know, we like tothink about loc locality.
John Puma (26:10):
well, it's weird because like the local food
there is like okonomiyaki andthat Is not going to be what I'm
going to choose to pair thiswith.
It's way too, um, way too big.
Uh, having said that, I havehad, there's a couple of really
nice, uh, tempura shops.
(26:30):
in Hiroshima and it's, I know onits face you think tempura, you
may be thinking, uh, it'sgreasy, it's oily, it's, it's
really good tempura when you getit from a place that's really,
that's very good at makingtempura.
Uh, it's not like that at all.
It's, it's light and crisp and,and, uh, you know, the outside
(26:52):
is very, is, is nice andcrunchy.
The inside is very soft.
It's really, really, it does agreat job of, Accentuating the,
the qualities of the ingredientthat's being used of the, you
know, so if you're having like ashrimp or if you're having like
a, I've had, I had a pumpkinslice that was, that was
tempura.
Is that the right,
Timothy Sullivan (27:10):
Well, yeah, that is the verb.
John Puma (27:13):
I had a pumpkin slice that was, Tempura ed, uh, and I
was very, I was very skeptical.
I was like, this is, I don'tknow about this.
And it was absolutely fabulous.
It was really, really nice.
Timothy Sullivan (27:24):
And that would be great with this, because
you're right, it's not heavy,it's not doughy, it's not
greasy.
It's light, crispy, crunchy.
And the thing about high endtempura that's amazing is that
the flavor of whatever is insidereally comes through.
John Puma (27:37):
Yes, when they're doing it right, that's 100%.
Um, and, and, you know, and alsoguys, if you happen to be in
Japan and you're, and you wantto experience something like
this, it's also, this can bedone very inexpensively.
It's not something like, uh,it's not going to be like a
hundred dollar night.
You can have really greattempura for like, honestly, I
had one of the most amazingtempura lunches, that I've ever
(28:00):
had in my life for, under 10 US.
That's absolutely wonderful.
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan (28:07):
amazing.
And that's a really good advice.
You don't have to spend a ton ofmoney to eat like a king in
Japan because it is so many goodplaces are really affordable and
lunch is, that's the secretword, like you can go to some of
these high end restaurants fortheir lunch service and for a
fraction of the cost, you canget an amazing, amazing meal.
John Puma (28:27):
Yes.
And you're going to leave full.
It's not, uh, don't thinkthey're skimping on it because
it's lunch.
It's absolutely wonderful stuff.
Um, all
Timothy Sullivan (28:34):
think you've cra I think you've cracked the
code.
So, uh,
John Puma (28:38):
I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to test this
Timothy Sullivan (28:40):
Daiginjo
John Puma (28:40):
out.
I don't know.
That's how science works.
Right.
Timothy Sullivan (28:44):
Yes, that's awesome.
Well, I, I love that.
And, uh, I think next chance Iget, I'm going to have a
delicious fruity Daiginjo withtempura and test out your
theory, but I'm on board.
Sold.
John Puma (28:57):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Timothy Sullivan (28:58):
All right.
Well, John, it was so great totaste with you today.
I hope you had fun exploring alittle bit about Hattan nishiki.
It's a very interesting rice,and the thing I love about it is
that it's so specific toHiroshima.
And opens the door to studyingabout that great region.
So, uh, whenever you seeHiroshima, check the sake rice
(29:21):
and see if you're sipping onsome delicious Hattan nishiki.
A special thank you to all ofour listeners.
Thanks for tuning in today.
We hope that you're enjoyingSake Revolution.
And if you are, and you'd liketo join us as a supporter,
please visitPatreon.com/SakeRevolution.
And there you can learn moreabout joining our Patreon.
John Puma (29:41):
Other ways that you can support Sake Revolution
include going to our website andchecking out our store.
So we have a nice little link toour shop on the website and we
sell t shirts, we sell stickers.
Timothy Sullivan (29:53):
And the holidays are coming up.
John Puma (29:55):
And the holidays are coming up so maybe, you know,
you want to get a t shirt forthe sake fan in your life.
Hopefully they know about theshow too.
That'd be a little weird if yougot them a t shirt from a
podcast that they've never heardof, but hey, you know, or if it
gets them to listen to the show,it's even better.
So anyway, please raise a glassof your favorite Hattan nishiki
(30:16):
sake.
Remember to keep drinking sakeand kanpai,
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