August 9, 2022 • 53 mins
Andrew Purvis chats with Mark Valenzuela about his journey as an artist and his current exhibition, 'Still Tied to a Tree' at Adelaide Central Gallery. Tune in to hear about his influences and connections to his practice – from Filipino culture, to chess, to the fictitious villain General Zod.
Show Notes
- 2022 SALA Feature Artist
- Still Tied to a Tree at Adelaide Central Gallery
- Book: Mark Valenzuela by Belinda Howden, Anna O’Loughlin [Wakefield Press]
- Paul Pfieffer
- Cristina Taniguchi, Maria Taniguchi
- General Zod [Wikipedia]
- Terraforming
- Agimat (amulet) [Wikipedia
- Opposition (direct opposition) in chess [Wikipedia]
Further Reading:
Meet your Maker: Mark Valenzuela - The Adelaide Review [article]
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kate Moskwa (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the SALA podcast. Each year
SALA's Feature Artist is alignedwith the recipient of the SA
Living Artist publication. Thisyear, that's Mark Valenzuela. In
addition to this publication,his work is featured in a solo
exhibition at Adelaide CentralGallery. Please enjoy this
interview about this exhibitionand his practice.
Andrew Purvis (00:42):
I'd like to begin by acknowledging that the land
we meet on today is thetraditional lands of the Kaurna
People, and we pay our respectsto Aboriginal Elders past,
present and emerging. We pay aspecial welcome to any First
Nations Peoples joining ustoday. Adelaide Central School
of Art is very proud to behosting the SALA Feature Artists
for 2022, Mark Valenzuela. Notonly has Mark pulled off a
(01:06):
pretty spectacular installationof work in our gallery with his
exhibition, Still Tied to aTree, but this year sees the
publication of Mark's newmonograph, which has been
written by Belinda Howden andAnna O'Loughlin. And you also
have an installation of work atthe Art Gallery of South
(01:28):
Australia Mark. This talk ishappening outside of the gallery
for the simple reason that it isjust so full of work at the
moment that we couldn't possiblyhope to cram all of you in
there, alongside an exhibitionfull of drawing, painting,
ceramic and installation work.If you haven't had the chance
already, I urge you after thetalk to head on in there and
(01:48):
check out the show. But, Mark, Ithought for our conversation
today... Hello, welcome.
Mark Valenzuela (01:56):
Hi. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew.
Andrew Purvis (01:59):
It might be an seeing that this exhibition and
this conversation is happeningat an art school. I thought we
could start by talking a littlebit about your own training in
visual arts. Yeah. So reading anessay in your monograph, I can
see that you didn't have accessto a visual arts course at your
university in Dumaguete City inthe Philippines, you had to
(02:20):
design your own arts training,didn't you?
Mark Valenzuela (02:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew Purvis (02:23):
Can you tell us a bit about that?
Mark Valenzuela (02:24):
Yeah, sure. Well, there was Dumaguete is the
central part of the Philippines.And that's where how I met Anna
as well. And that's where I metAnna. And it's a small town,
university town. And there'splenty of writers it's sort of
like the center of the writingworld in the, in the
(02:49):
Philippines. So, but the problemis, there's no fine arts there
yet. So during my time, at themoment, there's two or three
now. But during my time, there'sno fine art. So the closest to
fine arts was engineering. Butbefore that, I even went to
accountancy and management.
Andrew Purvis (03:07):
These are not things that people consider very
proximal to the visual arts.
Mark Valenzuela (03:11):
Not very, but in terms of materials. The
reason why I took engineeringbecause of yes, the closest
thing to fine arts. Because ofthat, they talk a lot about
materials and research aboutabout different materials. And I
said to myself, like, oh, thiscould be the best approach to
it. But other than that, I'malso practicing by myself
(03:33):
already by going to, you know,sorry, you're not meant to do
this, but, stealing books in thelibrary. In the Philippines, you
can't borrow books, you canbring it home, so or else you're
going to be staying in thelibrary, up to 7pm or 9pm,
during weekend. So in order forme to access all of that, I have
(03:53):
to throw them in the window, andthen yeah, but I return them.
So. So that's one way ofeducating myself in art.
Andrew Purvis (04:03):
I love that we're starting off this conversation
with a confession.
Mark Valenzuela (04:06):
Yeah.
Andrew Purvis (04:07):
I think you had a pretty interesting strategy for
the books that you selected aswell by examining the library
cards as to who'd been readingthem in the past?
Mark Valenzuela (04:17):
Well yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I look at the
Andrew Purvis (04:17):
yeah. So you've read everything that Paul
artists that I admired, becausein that town, it's actually an
art, art, art artists' haven. Sopeople like Paul Peiffer used to
Pfeiffer's read.
study there. And you know, work.Christina Taniguchi and her
daughter, Maria Taniguchi.They're pretty well known in the
art world at the moment. And andI just look at the names that,
(04:42):
you know,
Mark Valenzuela (04:42):
Yeah. I think so.
Andrew Purvis (04:48):
I think the fact that you are self taught and you
kind of designed your ownartistic course probably
explains a lot about thediversity of your practice; you
seem equally equipped to workacross drawing, painting,
ceramic objects. But this wasall self taught by you?
Well you were telling me about this and I
Mark Valenzuela (05:04):
Yeah, it is. The reason why I'm doing
drawings and paintings a lot inmy previous life is that because
found it really interesting (05:07):
the access to materials and this
that's the only it's quiteconservative the place as well.
concern with materials thatdrove you towards engineering,
So, you know, it's stillpainting, painting and drawing
drawing. So that's why it'sprobably a good one because I
was able to really learn moreabout drawings. But way before
then I've been drawing andmaking paintings. But when I
(05:30):
went to the study, when I wentstudying in the university in
it is quite a differentenvironment that we might take
Silliman University, provide mea lot of competitions, because
there's a lot of people likecreative people around. So yeah.
And then, of course,engineering, ceramic. That's how
I learned about it
(05:58):
for granted here in Australia,to collect materials to pursue
your ceramic practice was a lotmore involved than going over to
the shop that's adjacent to anart school and buying a kilo of
clay. What what would beinvolved for you?
Mark Valenzuela (06:11):
Well, I used to gather my own my own materials,
like I source my own clay, I digmy own clay, I go to the
mountains and look for claypaddy, that works with my work,
but it's just basicallyterracotta, like, lower, lower
firing clay. And before I wentto engineering, it's all about
(06:32):
just, you know, randomlylearning it on, like, on the
spot, like, but engineeringprovide me a research background
to my practice. So. So like, weI tested clay and, you know,
like, how, how high can I can,you know, reached temperature
with the local Clay we had. Andit's a bucket material is,
(06:53):
everybody knows, Clay, ifyou're, if you're in the
Philippines, like everybodyknows terracotta, everybody does
use terracotta as a material forthe, for their practice, because
you can really access it. Likeyou can access it in your
backyard. And indeed and and,and that was a start. And then I
go on and on and processing myown clay, drying my own clay,
building my own kilns, and yeah,
Andrew Purvis (07:16):
I think that sort of DIY ethos of having to make
do with what you've got, butalso not stop with what you've
got. But to actually sort oflike build your own kiln and
your own firing.
Mark Valenzuela (07:27):
Yeah,
Andrew Purvis (07:27):
Equipment and things like that has really
served you well, in yourpractice, it has opened up doors
to not being limited byprocesses that you've been
taught or materials orfacilities that you have
available to you.
Mark Valenzuela (07:39):
Yeah, it does. And also like, it gave me a you
know, like, unlimited resourcesof, you know, creativity,
because during the process, theprocess itself is an art
practice. And it's an art form,you know, like even building a
kiln, there was a time that Ibuild the kiln around the work.
(07:59):
And when I noticed that it like,oh, the work inside looks really
good. But the outside too, youknow, the kiln itself, and the
art to firing as well. So, so onthe way, there's plenty of
things like you sometimes, youknow, take it for granted in
(08:20):
exhibitions because anexhibition is a product or it's
an object. But there's a lot ofthings going around around
around that or before thatbefore you see the object,
Andrew Purvis (08:31):
or the process of the making the work can be as
interesting
Mark Valenzuela (08:34):
or even more interesting. So yeah, for me.
Andrew Purvis (08:38):
When you were in the Philippines, a lot of your
activities and some of the workyou were making was tied up as
your role as a protester andthinking about that political
dimension of your work, did thatheavily influence your art
practice?
Mark Valenzuela (08:52):
Yeah, with us? All everything in the
Philippines again, as well.Sorry, if I keep on mentioning
the Philippines, because I livethere.
Andrew Purvis (08:59):
It's pretty fundamental to you, to your
life!
Mark Valenzuela (09:01):
I lived there for 32 years. So anyway, up
almost everybody like artists, Iknow, it is a big part of their
practice, because it's the onlyway to actually change the
system. So artists plays a bigrole in the Philippines, like
they are the front liners ofchange in my country. Right.
(09:24):
Yeah. So this speak a lot aboutthe administration, whoever the
administration, who said whoeverrunning the administration, so
and I'm part of that, so and,yeah,
Andrew Purvis (09:36):
So it's an ongoing thing for you.
Mark Valenzuela (09:37):
Ongoing thing for me. And so I go in and out
of that, because sometimes itcan be scary, too. But yeah, and
Andrew Purvis (09:44):
and dangerous for you
Mark Valenzuela (09:45):
and dangerous for some artists. But yes, part
of our, the way we operate ourpractice.
Andrew Purvis (09:54):
And I mean, I think that that goes back to
that point that you were makingabout the process of making
work. A lot of political workgains its power by how and where
it's engaged with, it's oftenexhibited in the public space.
It might be displayed atdemonstrations or things like
that. And I think that that'ssomething that is part of your
(10:14):
practice as well, this idea ofA) putting work in the public
space. But also this realconcern about the performance of
installation or display. Can youtell us a little bit about maybe
the works of yours that you'vemade in public space? And how
that works?
Mark Valenzuela (10:32):
are talking about the Philippines?
Andrew Purvis (10:34):
We can talk about Philippines or here. Yeah.
Mark Valenzuela (10:36):
So the ones that I made here is, yeah, so
it's reinforced by my act ofputting works around public
places and public spaces. And Iget fascinated, I guess, this
this these things are quite -tobe honest- came later in my
practice. So and that's thereason why probably because the
(11:00):
when I started exhibiting inManila, Manila could be like
there's hundreds of exhibitionsevery day, and... No not every
day, every week. But there's alot of exhibitions, hundreds of
galleries, and you can you caneven make a living out of it,
you know, like, you know what, Imean? You don't have to cook
(11:20):
dinner, you just go exhibitionsevery night, so
Andrew Purvis (11:23):
Oh that kind of living, Okay, all right. I think
that was different from whateveryone was imagining.
Mark Valenzuela (11:30):
And and yeah, so it's very space-bound. Not
very performative. There arefew, but you can only count them
in the fingers on your in yourfingers. So when I came here,
this provide me a lot of havinga big spaces to do things and,
(11:51):
you know, your work don't getdamaged or you know, things like
that. So there's a lot offreedom in the street to so
there are spaces like that inthe Philippines. But as far as I
said, it's not that muchcompared here. So most of my,
the street part of my work isactually when I moved in
(12:12):
Australia and visited Indonesiaas well, because Indonesia is
very big in performative art andstreet art as well. So yeah.
Andrew Purvis (12:22):
And when we're talking about here, you the
street art that you'reexhibiting, it can range from
stencils, but also include someceramic, which is pretty
Mark Valenzuela (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Because it's
unusual.
Andrew Purvis (12:33):
They disappear
the idea of occupying space. Soyeah, so the object will leave
it there. To it occupies spacefor a little bit. But sometimes
forever. And, yeah. So and thenand then stencils of course. The
only problem with stencils isthat it occupies space longer,
(12:57):
because with ceramic, it becomesan object. And people love objects.
Mark Valenzuela (13:04):
They disappear.
Andrew Purvis (13:08):
But this idea of territoriality, of occupying
space is certainly somethingthat is very much an
undercurrent of the currentexhibition. But it runs through
quite a lot of your work. Do youwant to talk about how that idea
of territoriality stems fromboth your upbringing, your life
(13:29):
in the Philippines and what youencountered when you came to
Australia? Those differences inpublic space maybe.
Mark Valenzuela (13:35):
Yeah, that's a very difficult question. Yes.
Well, I've been talking aboutterritoriality in my work for
like, ages already. And that'sprobably because of my
upbringing as well. And I liveagain, I came from the
Philippines and the Philippinesis always subject for outside
(13:56):
forces all the time. So there'salways, you know,
Andrew Purvis (14:01):
there's colonial influences
Mark Valenzuela (14:02):
yeah, yeah. And there's always a threat of
invasion, you know, like peoplegrab our lands and stuff like
that. So that's an ongoingproblem and phenomenon in the
Philippines, even up to now. Sothat probably is one major
reason as well. So and but alsomy dad used to be in the
military. So there's a lot ofthat. There's a lot of that. And
(14:27):
when I came here, it's adifferent world again, right. So
the way we define the rat racehere is very different again.
Andrew Purvis (14:34):
Yeah. From our conversations, it ranges from
this geopolitical sense of likenational boundaries and
territorial borders. But alsowhen you arrived in Australia,
you were telling me about theway public spaces divided up the
sort of backyard fence; thedifference between noise and
density you experience in thePhilippines as you experience
(14:55):
here. Can you talk a little bitabout that that different
experience into the environment,of moving through these
different cities.
Mark Valenzuela (15:04):
You know, the I forget that the which, which
Superman movie it was like whenGeneral Zod came to Earth and
sort of like the
Andrew Purvis (15:20):
is that with the Phantom Zone
Mark Valenzuela (15:20):
Yeah, and chasing Superman somewhere. And
that the edge of Superman isthat his system adjusted already
to the environment. He can hearthings but he can also block
things. Like, you know,background noise
Andrew Purvis (15:35):
his super hearing is so sensitive but he's learned
to live in a noisy planet.
Mark Valenzuela (15:41):
Yeah. So and then Zod can't take that right,
because it's new for him. Soit's a bit like that for me, you
know, and I'm not saying thatI'm Superman or
Andrew Purvis (15:48):
you're General Zod!
Mark Valenzuela (15:50):
you know, but it's a bit like that for me,
like, you know, I even made ashow about that called
Terraforming. So it's about, youknow, how you adapt a space,
right. And then also, when youcome to a space, there's a
pre-existing noise or backgroundnoise that you it's you're not
accustomed to, you know? In thePhilippines we hear a lot of
(16:13):
background noise like roosterscrowing because they're farmed
and farmed to fight, and straydogs, hundreds and millions of
stray dogs and stray animals andthen and of course, we live
really close to each other, youknow, that provided us, you
know, like a beautifulbackground noise that I sort of
(16:34):
missed. When I came, I used tobe critical about that when I
was there. Because there's somethere's no private space, you
know, like, When can I haveprivacy? I have to climb a
mountain, -which is for real- Ihave to climb a mountain to get
my own space, you know? So yeah,
Andrew Purvis (16:50):
and you can get some clay while you're there.
Mark Valenzuela (16:52):
Yeah. But here when I arrived here, it's a bit
different. It's so quiet for me.And I can hear my, you know, my
tummy rumbling. You know, I canhear it. Like literally, I told
my friends about it. One inThailand said like, 'isn't that
beautiful? You can hear you canhear everything?' Yeah, it's
(17:12):
beautiful. But sometimes also itcould be isolating as well. Oh,
you hear a lot? You see a lot. Iknow. Yeah, you hear a lot. You
see a lot, but not so much noisethat so much background noise,
but you hear a lot. Becauseeverything gets magnified.
Andrew Purvis (17:32):
Yesah, To use another superhero analogy, it's
a bit like Daredevil, who'sable, whose smell and hearing is
more amplified and can sort oflike pick up on things that
other people don't notice. Butthere's a really nice work in
the Still Tied to a Treeexhibition, which is the ceramic
leaf blower and on the end ofthe leaf blower is a is not a
(17:53):
nozzle to blow air, but is ahuman ear.
Mark Valenzuela (17:56):
Yeah. So the human ear is like way, way back,
to my probably 10 years in mypractice. But I just use the
ears now as you know, as leaves.I made this leaf blower actually
inspired by a work because ofthis guy
Andrew Purvis (18:15):
You'd better say who this guy is, for the
recording
Mark Valenzuela (18:17):
It's Andrew Stock. And he showed me this
work of a student of yours?
Andrew Stock (18:23):
Yep
Mark Valenzuela (18:24):
That is a leaf blower. And I said to myself,
Oh, this is really I thoughtthis was really an Australian
thing, you know. So in myneighborhood, like, wherever I
go, I can hear leaf blowers-that's probably the new
background noise. And it'sbeautiful, because I tried it.
It's beautiful when you're onthe side where the trigger is,
(18:44):
you know, but if you're theopposite of that side, it's not
so much. It's very, likeannoying. So that's probably is
the the background noise thatI'm talking about here.
Andrew Purvis (18:54):
And it's a background noise that speaks so
much about control of space andsort of like pushing the leaf
out of your little plot of landand things and
Mark Valenzuela (19:01):
and making everything tidy. Yeah, yeah. Has
to be tidy.
Andrew Purvis (19:10):
So that that leaf blower, the human ear, I think
evokes a lot of your your workwhich, while it can deal with
political ideas, they're oftencouched in very surreal,
sometimes humorous, but oftendisturbing imagery. Can you tell
us where these strangecreatures, severed body parts,
and sort of odd amalgamationscome from? Is that just the way
(19:32):
your mind works or?
Mark Valenzuela (19:34):
Yeah, a little bit of that, yeah. Probably
drinking so much coffee as well.No, another thing is animism,
which is again during thepre-colonial Philippines, that's
our belief system. And even now,you know, when the Spanish
arrived during the 1500s, theybrought in another belief system
(19:57):
which is Christianity, and thenIslam as well came in from the
south. And all of these, youknow, get sort of like, mixed up
with animism. So our beliefsystem now is quite combination
of those different religiousbelief system and, and plus
animism. So I'm quite familiarwith it. So that's another thing
(20:18):
like in terms of figuration whenpeople make in the Philippines,
you can say you can see like,oh, it looks very surreal was
actually way, way before then.Yeah. Because it's, it's about
our culture before... beforecolonialism. So. So there's a
(20:39):
lot of we believe in, like, theworld is inhabited by good and
bad spirits. Like, almosteverything, even natural
disasters or natural phenomenon.Like, we believe that that's the
spirit guiding that or
Andrew Purvis (20:56):
and objects as well
Mark Valenzuela (20:57):
and objects as well. So that's why my work is
like that, like, they look like,you know, animated objects, you
know?
Andrew Purvis (21:06):
Yeah. And it feels less unusual if these
objects like a leaf blowersuddenly takes on this kind of
organic life of its own. That'sreally interesting.
Mark Valenzuela (21:16):
Yeah. So, and then also, the way I put my
works together, even I have thisbig idea, but in between the
works this tiny little, yeah.meanings into it. And I love I
love that in my work as well. Soand then in in that is, again,
(21:37):
that is again, very backed up bythe by my my background,
cultural background, which is,you know, mythology belief
system and stuff like that. So,if you go in the exhibition
there, that particular workthere in front of you, the
(22:01):
banana heart that is
Andrew Purvis (22:04):
so Mark's referring to the banana hearts
that are suspended inside thesesteel armatures that kind of
that hold them in place and looklike they're kind of draining
them
Mark Valenzuela (22:13):
That's really an amazing work, not because
it's my work, but I just love Ijust love the way I was able to
manipulate the material or thewhole, the whole idea and put it
here. And, and it's actuallythose three banana heart there
that the transformation of thebanana heart into this... you
(22:36):
know, Superman, what do you callthat, the logo of Superman?
Andrew Purvis (22:41):
yeah, Superman's sort of chest emblem with the
'S' inside
Mark Valenzuela (22:44):
And then it turned into that,
Andrew Purvis (22:47):
yeah, so they object to that marks describing
as a banana heart that on oneside features the silhouette of
Superman's distinctive sort ofdiamond shaped chest emblem,
that then morphs into anintermediate shape and then
finally changes into the ace ofspades,
Mark Valenzuela (23:03):
the ace of spades.
Andrew Purvis (23:04):
Yeah, and I really like that work because
there is such a kind of polarphilosophical difference between
what Superman represents andwhat the ace of spades, that
sort of reset Motorhead kind ofsymbol of chaos maybe?
Mark Valenzuela (23:17):
Yeah or even, you know, the spikes of gates
and fences? Yeah, so, there's alot of, you know, there's a lot
of, again, that goes back againto territoriality and
gatekeeping. Again, which isbig, big, you know, layer in my
work. Yeah. And, and, and I tellyou a little bit of story of the
mythology behind bananas.
Andrew Purvis (23:37):
Please, Yeah. Go for it
Mark Valenzuela (23:38):
Well, it's, it's, at a certain time, you
have to catch this sort of likea pearl before the banana heart
blooms. So according to ourbelief system, way before the
Spaniards again, you have tocatch it on the right time, and
to give you like spiritual... ifyou catch up on the right time,
(24:01):
you have to wait there under thebanana tree or the banana shrub.
You have to wait for that littlelittle pearl or sort of like
Andrew Purvis (24:11):
the droplet
Mark Valenzuela (24:12):
that drops from the bottom of the banana heart
before it blooms. And it givesyou it was believed that it
gives you a supernatural powerslike powers and makes you
invincible and somehow like, youknow, impenetrable by bullets
and stuff like so. So I'm youramulets and stuff are, you know,
(24:32):
big thing in the Philippinestoo.
Andrew Purvis (24:35):
Wow. So that artwork is sort of showing an
almost kind of mechanizedfactory production system to
extract that mystical essence.
Mark Valenzuela (24:44):
Yeah. And based on an animism again, there will
be like creatures from theunderworld waiting for it as
well. Like, but they cannotaccess it directly, they have to
wait for a human being to catchthat right moment before it
drops. And then suddenly they'lltake -these creatures waiting-
(25:04):
will take that away from thewhoever capture it. So this, I
like the metaphor of that interms of a lot of things in the
Philippines and here frompatriarchy, you know, even
violence as well as well sort oflike accepted phenomenon.
Andrew Purvis (25:23):
I think that's an interesting thing to touch on,
because while your work is verydense with this kind of
mythological and culturalelusions, there's also an
undercurrent of violence in in alot of your work, these sort of
severed body parts, but also,the current show is filled with
these ceramic versions of curvedrebar that have been bent into
butcher's hooks. What does thismotif of like the butcher's
(25:45):
hook, and this kind ofundercurrent of violence
represent in your in yourpractice?
Mark Valenzuela (25:51):
Well, violence and fragility, they go hand in
hand. So and that's one reasonwhy you ceramic, so I just use
the object without, so I've beenusing ceramic for that reason.
And, and violence, obviously,it's my background again. So you
(26:11):
know, and how, you know, thebeauty of clay, the beauty of
clay is that it can, it can moldit, it can, it's very malleable,
you can touch it, and it's verytherapeutic at some point. But
you can also freeze its form.And you can also mimic other
materials without losing its,you know, its own personal
(26:34):
characteristic and identity. Andyou put it in a kiln, when you
put in the kiln, it becomes anobject. Because you fired it,
becomes solid, and yeah, itlasts forever. But if you drop
it, it breaks. So there's a lotof, sort of, like violence in
the material, if you if you justlook into the material itself,
(26:55):
and even firing in a kiln. Imean, who wants to be inside a
kiln?
Andrew Purvis (26:58):
*laughs*
Mark Valenzuela (26:59):
So yeah, so I love that with clay, I love
that. And, and then thebutcher's hook, of course, like
when you look at the butcher'shooks it's... the form itself is
very violent already. And then,and then you get this hooks made
of clay. For me, that's reallyfascinating. The, the, you know,
the opposite. Sort of like theyhave opposite, you know, purpose
(27:26):
somehow, you know, like, thebutcher's hook has to stand
weight, and, you know, and thenbut Clay; Clay defies it by
saying like, 'Oh, it's fragile'.In the streets in the
Philippines, it's a lot ofbutchery, metaphorically and
literally. So there's a lot of,you know, buther's places in the
(27:47):
street, that's one of thosethings then cock houses as well,
the fighting cock roosters andthe tires, the vulcanizing tires
as well. So these are thestreets, these are the street
art in the Philippines.
Andrew Purvis (28:00):
Yeah, and that sort of furniture of the streets
in the Philippines comes intothe gallery and fills the space
in your exhibition.
Mark Valenzuela (28:06):
Yeah. So in have been talking to Anna about
this, about the theory ofopposition. And just by the way,
my, the structure of my work isabout chess; the structure of my
work is based on chess, becauseI play a lot of chess. And
there's one thing in, you know,in chess, that's called the
(28:28):
opposition, that theory ofopposition, direct opposition in
particular, which, you know, youleft with a king and on both
sides King on the same file onsame rank, and then you get a
pawn, that if that gets promotedat the eighth rank, it becomes
easy for you to win the game, ofcourse, obviously,
Andrew Purvis (28:49):
because it becomes a queen
Mark Valenzuela (28:50):
it becomes a queen, right. But if you're the
defender, you prevent the kingfrom occupying a space in the
middle. And you don't want thepawn to... because once the king
occupies that... a king with apawn that occupies the middle
already the space in the middle,because there's a gap between
(29:10):
two kings. Once the king withthe pawn occupies that, that
automatic, automatically thepawn behind the king becomes a
queen. And and then the otherway around, if you're defending
it, you prevent that by doingthe opposition. And my work is
it's it's it's like that. Sowhen I first came here you know,
(29:35):
it's a bit quiet for me. So, Isaid to myself, I'm going to
fill the gap, like there'splenty of gaps and spaces, I'm
going to fill it up a bit. Thatwill that will actually help me
navigate the space as well.
Andrew Purvis (29:51):
So your art strategically is like a
counter-move to the environmentthat you're in.
Mark Valenzuela (29:55):
Exactly. And when I go to the Philippines I
do the other way around. I makethis like really pristine in one
work, minimalist one. Like,'what? It's only two works?'
Yeah, because it was differentthere as well. It's crowded so.
So I like that, I like that.
Andrew Purvis (30:13):
I really like it. That sort of connection to
chess, which I understand is areally is a huge interest for
you and something drives you,it's probably not something that
is visible on the surface ofwork. But this understanding of
the strategies of chess or theapproaches to playing that game
really inform the way in whichyou work even on a meta level of
(30:33):
how you decide you make yourexhibitions. And we were talking
before, and you were describingthe show that's in the gallery
now, as an 'intermediate stage',I know there are intermediate
moves in chess as well. But whatdid you mean by by this
exhibition in the gallery now asbeing an intermediate stage for
this, this work?
Mark Valenzuela (30:52):
Well. I always find a space or a gallery or any
other spaces for exhibition,sometimes it stops a certain
time, certain moment, it beginsin a certain time, it stops on a
certain time. So sort of like, Iwant to expand that because for
(31:12):
me, sometimes, or most of thetime, my practice is about now
it's more of like putting thingstogether. So I have this
creating an object thing, andand the object thing, and then
put them together and make animmersive installation. But
sometimes it's tough. And Idon't want it to stop. So my way
(31:35):
of doing it is, this is justhappens lately, because I sort
of like find it very, very, youknow, like, annoying at some
point that we get accumulate, weget works accumulated,
particularly artists like me,that makes a lot of things,
(31:57):
right. And they culminate, mostof the time after the exhibition
in a storage.
Andrew Purvis (32:02):
Yeah.
Mark Valenzuela (32:03):
So part of the big part of my practice is
reconfiguring and putting thingsup, bringing new meanings to my
work again,
Andrew Purvis (32:11):
and when we were talking about this from a kind
of animus perspective, maybe,you were describing things that
end up in storage is, they'vedied.
Mark Valenzuela (32:17):
Yeah. So they sort of like they die, or they
become dead. And because youknow, how work becomes dead when
you don't look at it, or youdon't engage in it, but it
becomes alive again, when youlook at it. I just want my work
to be at some point dynamic. andI want it moving. You know, so
this exhibition, I sort ofsomehow design the structures
(32:41):
and, and the works that will fitin my studio in the future. So
my studio is the another spacethat I could keep on
reconfiguring keep on changingthe meaning of the works. And
it's endless, the endlesspossibility that it's like,
again, it's one of those chessthing again, like, you know,
(33:04):
when you're when you when youyou're playing chess, you get,
you have this, plenty of linesthat you can go and branches and
branches. When you go to yourspace. That's, that's millions
of possibilities. And, and themeaning changes from time to
time, the way they're verydifferent to the way we put an
(33:25):
object and its function. Andlook at an object and its
function is sometimes boxed intoone meaning. So
Andrew Purvis (33:33):
I think it's a really interesting way for an
artist to think about theirpractice to not consider an
exhibition as a terminal pointas a culmination like, this is
now done. And you take worksfrom previous exhibitions,
sometimes you reconfigure themrework them, but sometimes you
just transplant it from one showto the next, and it feels a lot
more sustainable. And a lot moreintegrated into a continuing
(33:56):
practice.
Mark Valenzuela (33:57):
Yeah, exactly. Because that's, that's what
probably all artists are facingright now, after an exhibition,
we're gonna throw these things.Not everybody gets acquired or,
you know, being loved. So, Imean, not everything this end up
in a bin or sometimes recyclebins, or they sometimes, you
know, grow what I mean Grove,you break them if they're
(34:19):
ceramic, so, yeah, so I,sustainability is a big thing.
Like, how do you? How do you dothe I think it's time to do that
as an artist, you know, plannedit ahead, probably, that's the
planning stage that I that everyartist should reconsider. So
that they just, I mean, fromtimber, to nails to everything,
(34:42):
they shouldn't just go in and beand they should.
Andrew Purvis (34:47):
I'd love to touch on some of the specific works in
this exhibition as well whilewe've still got a little bit of
time. One of the mostdistinctive techniques that you
use is using the surface of aceramic object is a space for
drawing. That happens a numberof times in the show, but I'm
thinking particularly about thealiwarus creature that is
(35:07):
suspended high up on the wall inthe gallery. How do you go about
achieving this effect of usingthe ceramic surfaces as a
surface for creating a drawing?
Mark Valenzuela (35:17):
Well, also, I really love drawings at lot.
love to draw a lot. So I used todraw everybody that shows
everyday anyway, including youright?
Andrew Purvis (35:29):
But to varying degrees of proficiency, but
yeah, I think you're better atit than I am.
Mark Valenzuela (35:33):
But again, like the sculpture itself, I will or
the installation itself, I loveto look, I love to look at it as
a drawing. And one one thingthat I actually get fascinated
with is like when you coveringinstead of glaze covering the
work. And I used to put drawingsa lot on the work on an object,
(35:56):
but that will give you again,you focus to an object, right.
So now I look at the work now ina distance, more from a distance
of drawing makes sense, it lookslike the whole installation is a
drawing. So ceramic ceramicpencil is one thing I sometimes
(36:17):
use acrylic stencils and stuffbut I seldom do that in my work
in my on my ceramic, what I do,what I use is the pencil,
because it looks like it lookslike pencil but it's not. It's a
it's made of clay. And then youfire it high, and it's retains,
it becomes part of the clay. Soit's like
Andrew Purvis (36:39):
there's a huge sort of textural similarity
between that clay pencil on thesurface of the clay and the wall
drawing that you create in thegallery as well. They look very
similar but they're actuallycompletely different substances.
Mark Valenzuela (36:51):
Yeah, because it can erase. I used to make fun
of, when I was in thePhilippines I had exhibition
like when material is quite newthere. And I used to used to
tell people like because somesome some collectors in the
Philippines it's funny becausethey tried to erase it, like,
Oh, can you erase this? Yeah,I'll give it to you if you can
erase it. It's gonna, it's quitefunny, it becomes embedded in
(37:12):
the work and becomes the workitself. So that's the beauty of
it.
Andrew Purvis (37:16):
But this new body of work also shows a lot more
experimenting with glazes. Ifeel like that's, that's quite a
bit of a departure for yourpractice is that can you tell us
what's been going on in thestudio?
Mark Valenzuela (37:26):
Well, well, I tend to, even though I have in
forms I have I have this, youknow, I don't want to control
the form, I just let let letplay with the form the way I
play with the clay and then letthe form sometimes comes out.
But in terms of glazing, I'mworried about it so much. And I
(37:48):
think I mentioned it in one ofthe talks in AGSA that I
never... I build kilns, rightand I fired anagama kilns as
well I even built an anagamakiln on here with my partner in
the south in Normanville. So Iused to fire with anagama with
using other people's work, notmy work design. And I'm worried
(38:11):
that it doesn't come up, right.I'm not experimenting with other
people's work.
Unknown (38:16):
[laughter]
Mark Valenzuela (38:16):
But it's just I know that it doesn't work with
my work because there's atendency with object that when
you put it there with all theglazes you're wasting your time,
you could be a waste of time,you know, the whole thing. And
as sort of like even the same,the same concept with glazing
that could the firing could ruina work, you know, and then it's
(38:38):
not like a cup that you could,you know, make it into one of
those seconds that you can, youcan still reuse it but when it
comes to sculpture, it's itcould die quickly
Andrew Purvis (38:48):
well it's really interesting. I mean you you are
a chess player, and that is agame of skill. And glazing is a
game of chance, I think is whatyou're telling me.
Mark Valenzuela (38:57):
Well, it's not a game of chance - with natural
ash it is a game of chance, butwith glazing using glazing
materials that is a precisescience as well as a science
that and that's prettypredictable. At some point, my
only worry is that when I putthat in my work it I could I
(39:17):
couldn't imagine it as quick asthat it just just doesn't work
yet and I can so glazing is newto me. So no no no not sorry.
not new to me but new in mywork. And this time around, I
just let it loose. So what yousee there is a mixture of
different glazes that I don'teven know why I just put them in
(39:40):
one one thing work out and Ijust repeated it.
Andrew Purvis (39:43):
It's a really exciting sort of variety of
different surface textures andcolours and an effects of the
glaze.
Mark Valenzuela (39:49):
Yeah it's amazing because it it's it's a
kind of glaze that flows reallywhen it's high temperature it
flows down and I've sacrificed alot of shelves.
Andrew Purvis (39:58):
Yeah you were saying
Mark Valenzuela (40:00):
Yeah, because it gets it gets stuck in the
shelf. Right. But also themovement can see the movement.
Yeah. Like the movement ofglazes makes the work alive.
Yeah. So that's why, like,probably I'm gonna sit over that
surface for a bit. Yeah, not butnot forever.
Andrew Purvis (40:22):
Another element of the show that I really like
is there's a sequence of smalldrawings, which you call your
'brewing drawings'. And theseare part of a daily ritual that
you took, can you tell us alittle bit about the role that
habit and ritual plays in yourpractice, and for listeners at
home, I will just let them knowthat before we sat down to talk,
Mark has brought his entire kitin here to brew us, he's going
(40:45):
to get a top up, he brought hiskit in here to brew us a cup of
coffee, and he's just getting alittle top-up of coffee now. So
I think that this is a this is abig ritual that's a big part of
your work as well.
Mark Valenzuela (40:54):
Same as a space-making too, like I've been
Andrew Purvis (40:55):
But I think that's a really nice comment,
thinking and been saying aboutthis forever to my all my
friends that I want to make aspace same as, very similar to
tea ceremony, and then I make aspace made of ceramic, like or
because it kind of takes us fullcircle back to what we were
other found objects, and then Ibrew coffee there, and then have
(41:15):
conversation because that's...usually with the coffee, it's
it's quick, it's fast, we loveto just drink it and go, right.
talking about before this ideaof your practice not being
So sort of like I want to putback ritual in my work. And
brewing drawing is again, athing that you know, I do I do
everyday, every morning. Soevery morning I draw parallel to
(41:37):
if you follow my Instagram, youcan find that there. So this
restricted to the to the objectin space. But considering that
drawing is this brewing. And sorelated and and the reason why I
love that is that it, it bringsme back to the detail of my
practice, you know how chess isthe structure. And almost like,
my strategy in my art practicein my art making. And each line,
(41:57):
process by which it's made,considering how something is
in order to go through each lineand opening, you go back to the
detail, which is very importantas well. And then coffee, give,
gave that back to me, you know,that attention to detail again.
So and then focus into makingfun object I used to the problem
fired, what it's surface is likeand how it exists in space, and
(42:17):
is I used before, I used to havethis conflict in myself about
making an object a non-object.And it's a beautiful comment
that I received from an artistsomewhere I met in Northern
Territory and a really goodartist, and she she just called
how it might move and changeover time. I think that's a
my work as an object. And atthat time, I got really, you
(42:38):
know, like, it went into myhead, in other words. So I said,
like, I'm not gonna make I'm notjust making an object. So there
really fascinating aspect ofyour practice that I love that
was this conflict in me, like,how can I make an un-object? You
know, and, and then theperformance probably is one way
to do it. But also, and then Ijust this, you know, like, I was
(43:00):
able to have this, you know,realization like, well, it could
we have this opportunity to havethis conversation because it
be an object that criticize anobject, you know, could be an
object that is an anti-object.So now I just said, like,
Alright, back to details. Don'tworry about the
object/non-object thing they'rejust all, you know, a perception
(43:21):
really comes out. And I hopepeople get the opportunity to
thing so.
revisit Mark's show during itsrun here because it will grow
(43:52):
It will grow and change. And themore you go in there -it's an
and change
it's an immersive work- the moreyou grow in there, the more you
see things as well. Yeah, yeah.So it brings you back to the
individual piece, the object,which is not necessarily an
object.
(44:13):
Mark's right, you will see morethings that more often you go
back there, he has an incrediblydense and complicated practice,
which maybe can't be unpacked inan hour's talk, but maybe you
might be able to find more byreading this book. But we also
have a few minutes now for somequestions from the audience. So
does anyone have any questionsfor Mark?
Audience Member (44:37):
How do you think traveling has... do you
think it's improved your work ordo you it's changed it in a
certain way?
Mark Valenzuela (44:44):
Yeah, it does actually. Like even just coming
here in Australia. There was atime in my life like probably
the five years of my life when Ilive here, I still consider
living here as travellingbecause I still I perceive my,
you know, my where I come from,or the country where I come from
(45:05):
as the home and I found it verydifficult to. Anyway. So yeah,
it does a lot. So when I camehere it changed my, my practice,
it changed my practice a lot.And then of course, going
somewhere going to exhibitionsin Southeast Asia, every time,
(45:25):
it's important. Traveling isimportant. It opens your, you
know, your world, in many ways,you know, sometimes we, you
know, as a practitioner, you endup like just staying in your
studio. And working, travelingprovides you a community that
you realize that, oh, in otherparts of the world, you get
(45:48):
community there as well. So andyou see other people's work
other people's properties, andit helps you a lot. It's like a
natural critic. When you seethey're like, Oh, I'm doing
worse than what she's doing. Andthen you change, you grow from
Audience Member (46:08):
I just want to go back to what is perceived
that.
criticism of being workingtoward an object is, is it
possible to sort of see what I'mthinking anyway, what we do when
we we make things when we aremaking objects? But it's
(46:30):
because, I think this is whatyou were alluding to, because
they they communicate,therefore, it's in the
communication with the artworkis, they're still objects. And
if noone sees them, if they'relocked away after an exhibition
in storage, they're objects,
Mark Valenzuela (46:46):
yes they're the objects,
Andrew Stock (46:47):
but the art happens, as it were. And these
objects are transformed inrelationship with other than
themselves. So the audience
Mark Valenzuela (46:58):
yeah, and it gets animated. Yeah.
Andrew Stock (47:00):
Yeah, it gets animated. Is that what you were
kind of alluding to?
Mark Valenzuela (47:05):
Well, whatever you do, I mean, everything is an
object anyway. Yes. So the onlything is, you don't want it to
be just what I meant aboutbecoming an object is tied to a
single meaning. Yes. And I don'tmind that. But recently, my
practice, I think, I mean, inreality as well, you know,
(47:28):
things change, you know?
Andrew Stock (47:31):
For me, it's always been a classic case of
the political meeting themetaphysical.
Mark Valenzuela (47:38):
Yeah,
Andrew Stock (47:39):
and creating objects that purvey the meaning,
and the journeys of thatprocess. Yeah. Which you arrive
at through the very physicalprocess of making an object, and
those ideas then solidify theobject, which is now an
artifact, because it generatesmeaning.
Mark Valenzuela (47:59):
Yeah. It's that's a very complex question
there, Andrew.
Andrew Stock (48:09):
Yeah, well, it's to a complex guy.
Mark Valenzuela (48:12):
Yeah. So yeah, so again, the is, again, the
object becomes just an objectwith a single meaning. And, and,
for me, that's quite static forme right. And in my practice, is
what I've been saying that Iwant my work to be more dynamic
(48:33):
at the same time moving, moving,and, and it changes it morphs
into something else, it morphsinto, into another having a
different meaning depends uponthe space, because the idea is
the space always change the, theinhabitants and vice versa.
Andrew Stock (48:49):
So the context changes
Mark Valenzuela (48:50):
The context, yeah, the context change. So in
that way, in some way, want toretain the like, and if you just
put one meaning to it, andthat's it, that's, that's That's
it, you know, put a line to it.That's a box, you know. And, it
becomes it becomes simplified,it becomes simplified. So I
(49:13):
don't want that. So I wantedthis. That's what I said, your
question is complex, and thework the object, the object
definition is very complex aswell.
Audience Member (49:23):
Do you think about how the audience will
understand the work? I mean,every audience member will have
a different view of what anobject is, what a given object
means. Do you do put together,do you assemble your exhibition
on the basis of a vision youhave? Or is it in response to
what you think, viewers mightunderstand it to me?
Mark Valenzuela (49:46):
Yeah, that's a very good question a bit of both
for me, because there are timesthat I, of course, consider the
audience as part of the spaceright, and the way they react
and the way they perceive theobject that I'm making or the
space that I'm making is, is,you know, they become part of
the I mean, the audience will bepart of that as well. So the
(50:10):
reaction is one thing. But alsothere is a thing sometimes that
it's just about me. You know? Imean, why not? Like, sometimes
you need it, sometimes you needit, sometimes you can see the
audience, sometimes not. Becausein the end, you know, it's about
(50:32):
you something, probably most ofthe time. I hope I answered that
question. Well, so that's whyit's a bit of both, it's a bit
of both. And you can do playboth as well, like you can
consider the audience and at thesame time, it's about you. But
that's pretty stressful, at somepoint,
Audience Member (50:50):
The art here is in a school. The art at the Art
Gallery of South Australia is ina museum, yet, they have
complementary functions. But youmight not, well you might have,
thought about what work youwould put here, what work you
would put there. Is the workthat's in the Art Gallery going
(51:10):
to be changing, is that going tobe evolving?
Mark Valenzuela (51:13):
I added a few bits there. But that's based,
the exhibition that is based onthe the collections that works
that they acquired from meduring the Biennial. And I get
the point that this there arelimits there as well. So but
maybe,
Andrew Purvis (51:30):
whereas here we have no limits.
Mark Valenzuela (51:33):
I like that
Andrew Purvis (51:35):
I might've put myself in for something there.
Mark Valenzuela (51:36):
But I have a few options that I could
interchange the duckies. Buthere, I love it. I love that. I
Andrew Purvis (51:39):
I think that might be where we need to leave
love it. They're different. Andwhen I decide because when I
when... if I've given the chanceto occupy two spaces, I will
make it as fluid as I can. It'snot like this object only
belongs here and that objectbelongs there or that work
(51:59):
belongs here, that work belongsthere; I want them to be really
related because it's made bymyself and it's all about, again
it goes back to me and I madethose works. They're all
related, as they fall into oneflow according to the way I live
my life.
(52:20):
this conversation. Thank you allvery much for joining us and can
you please thank MarkValenzuela.
Hello and welcome to the SALA podcast. Each year
SALA's Feature Artist is alignedwith the recipient of the SA
Living Artist publication. Thisyear, that's Mark Valenzuela. In
addition to this publication,his work is featured in a solo
exhibition at Adelaide CentralGallery. Please enjoy this
interview about this exhibitionand his practice.
Andrew Purvis (00:42):
I'd like to begin by acknowledging that the land
we meet on today is thetraditional lands of the Kaurna
People, and we pay our respectsto Aboriginal Elders past,
present and emerging. We pay aspecial welcome to any First
Nations Peoples joining ustoday. Adelaide Central School
of Art is very proud to behosting the SALA Feature Artists
for 2022, Mark Valenzuela. Notonly has Mark pulled off a
(01:06):
pretty spectacular installationof work in our gallery with his
exhibition, Still Tied to aTree, but this year sees the
publication of Mark's newmonograph, which has been
written by Belinda Howden andAnna O'Loughlin. And you also
have an installation of work atthe Art Gallery of South
(01:28):
Australia Mark. This talk ishappening outside of the gallery
for the simple reason that it isjust so full of work at the
moment that we couldn't possiblyhope to cram all of you in
there, alongside an exhibitionfull of drawing, painting,
ceramic and installation work.If you haven't had the chance
already, I urge you after thetalk to head on in there and
(01:48):
check out the show. But, Mark, Ithought for our conversation
today... Hello, welcome.
Mark Valenzuela (01:56):
Hi. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew.
Andrew Purvis (01:59):
It might be an seeing that this exhibition and
this conversation is happeningat an art school. I thought we
could start by talking a littlebit about your own training in
visual arts. Yeah. So reading anessay in your monograph, I can
see that you didn't have accessto a visual arts course at your
university in Dumaguete City inthe Philippines, you had to
(02:20):
design your own arts training,didn't you?
Mark Valenzuela (02:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew Purvis (02:23):
Can you tell us a bit about that?
Mark Valenzuela (02:24):
Yeah, sure. Well, there was Dumaguete is the
central part of the Philippines.And that's where how I met Anna
as well. And that's where I metAnna. And it's a small town,
university town. And there'splenty of writers it's sort of
like the center of the writingworld in the, in the
(02:49):
Philippines. So, but the problemis, there's no fine arts there
yet. So during my time, at themoment, there's two or three
now. But during my time, there'sno fine art. So the closest to
fine arts was engineering. Butbefore that, I even went to
accountancy and management.
Andrew Purvis (03:07):
These are not things that people consider very
proximal to the visual arts.
Mark Valenzuela (03:11):
Not very, but in terms of materials. The
reason why I took engineeringbecause of yes, the closest
thing to fine arts. Because ofthat, they talk a lot about
materials and research aboutabout different materials. And I
said to myself, like, oh, thiscould be the best approach to
it. But other than that, I'malso practicing by myself
(03:33):
already by going to, you know,sorry, you're not meant to do
this, but, stealing books in thelibrary. In the Philippines, you
can't borrow books, you canbring it home, so or else you're
going to be staying in thelibrary, up to 7pm or 9pm,
during weekend. So in order forme to access all of that, I have
(03:53):
to throw them in the window, andthen yeah, but I return them.
So. So that's one way ofeducating myself in art.
Andrew Purvis (04:03):
I love that we're starting off this conversation
with a confession.
Mark Valenzuela (04:06):
Yeah.
Andrew Purvis (04:07):
I think you had a pretty interesting strategy for
the books that you selected aswell by examining the library
cards as to who'd been readingthem in the past?
Mark Valenzuela (04:17):
Well yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I look at the
Andrew Purvis (04:17):
yeah. So you've read everything that Paul
artists that I admired, becausein that town, it's actually an
art, art, art artists' haven. Sopeople like Paul Peiffer used to
Pfeiffer's read.
study there. And you know, work.Christina Taniguchi and her
daughter, Maria Taniguchi.They're pretty well known in the
art world at the moment. And andI just look at the names that,
(04:42):
you know,
Mark Valenzuela (04:42):
Yeah. I think so.
Andrew Purvis (04:48):
I think the fact that you are self taught and you
kind of designed your ownartistic course probably
explains a lot about thediversity of your practice; you
seem equally equipped to workacross drawing, painting,
ceramic objects. But this wasall self taught by you?
Well you were telling me about this and I
Mark Valenzuela (05:04):
Yeah, it is. The reason why I'm doing
drawings and paintings a lot inmy previous life is that because
found it really interesting (05:07):
the access to materials and this
that's the only it's quiteconservative the place as well.
concern with materials thatdrove you towards engineering,
So, you know, it's stillpainting, painting and drawing
drawing. So that's why it'sprobably a good one because I
was able to really learn moreabout drawings. But way before
then I've been drawing andmaking paintings. But when I
(05:30):
went to the study, when I wentstudying in the university in
it is quite a differentenvironment that we might take
Silliman University, provide mea lot of competitions, because
there's a lot of people likecreative people around. So yeah.
And then, of course,engineering, ceramic. That's how
I learned about it
(05:58):
for granted here in Australia,to collect materials to pursue
your ceramic practice was a lotmore involved than going over to
the shop that's adjacent to anart school and buying a kilo of
clay. What what would beinvolved for you?
Mark Valenzuela (06:11):
Well, I used to gather my own my own materials,
like I source my own clay, I digmy own clay, I go to the
mountains and look for claypaddy, that works with my work,
but it's just basicallyterracotta, like, lower, lower
firing clay. And before I wentto engineering, it's all about
(06:32):
just, you know, randomlylearning it on, like, on the
spot, like, but engineeringprovide me a research background
to my practice. So. So like, weI tested clay and, you know,
like, how, how high can I can,you know, reached temperature
with the local Clay we had. Andit's a bucket material is,
(06:53):
everybody knows, Clay, ifyou're, if you're in the
Philippines, like everybodyknows terracotta, everybody does
use terracotta as a material forthe, for their practice, because
you can really access it. Likeyou can access it in your
backyard. And indeed and and,and that was a start. And then I
go on and on and processing myown clay, drying my own clay,
building my own kilns, and yeah,
Andrew Purvis (07:16):
I think that sort of DIY ethos of having to make
do with what you've got, butalso not stop with what you've
got. But to actually sort oflike build your own kiln and
your own firing.
Mark Valenzuela (07:27):
Yeah,
Andrew Purvis (07:27):
Equipment and things like that has really
served you well, in yourpractice, it has opened up doors
to not being limited byprocesses that you've been
taught or materials orfacilities that you have
available to you.
Mark Valenzuela (07:39):
Yeah, it does. And also like, it gave me a you
know, like, unlimited resourcesof, you know, creativity,
because during the process, theprocess itself is an art
practice. And it's an art form,you know, like even building a
kiln, there was a time that Ibuild the kiln around the work.
(07:59):
And when I noticed that it like,oh, the work inside looks really
good. But the outside too, youknow, the kiln itself, and the
art to firing as well. So, so onthe way, there's plenty of
things like you sometimes, youknow, take it for granted in
(08:20):
exhibitions because anexhibition is a product or it's
an object. But there's a lot ofthings going around around
around that or before thatbefore you see the object,
Andrew Purvis (08:31):
or the process of the making the work can be as
interesting
Mark Valenzuela (08:34):
or even more interesting. So yeah, for me.
Andrew Purvis (08:38):
When you were in the Philippines, a lot of your
activities and some of the workyou were making was tied up as
your role as a protester andthinking about that political
dimension of your work, did thatheavily influence your art
practice?
Mark Valenzuela (08:52):
Yeah, with us? All everything in the
Philippines again, as well.Sorry, if I keep on mentioning
the Philippines, because I livethere.
Andrew Purvis (08:59):
It's pretty fundamental to you, to your
life!
Mark Valenzuela (09:01):
I lived there for 32 years. So anyway, up
almost everybody like artists, Iknow, it is a big part of their
practice, because it's the onlyway to actually change the
system. So artists plays a bigrole in the Philippines, like
they are the front liners ofchange in my country. Right.
(09:24):
Yeah. So this speak a lot aboutthe administration, whoever the
administration, who said whoeverrunning the administration, so
and I'm part of that, so and,yeah,
Andrew Purvis (09:36):
So it's an ongoing thing for you.
Mark Valenzuela (09:37):
Ongoing thing for me. And so I go in and out
of that, because sometimes itcan be scary, too. But yeah, and
Andrew Purvis (09:44):
and dangerous for you
Mark Valenzuela (09:45):
and dangerous for some artists. But yes, part
of our, the way we operate ourpractice.
Andrew Purvis (09:54):
And I mean, I think that that goes back to
that point that you were makingabout the process of making
work. A lot of political workgains its power by how and where
it's engaged with, it's oftenexhibited in the public space.
It might be displayed atdemonstrations or things like
that. And I think that that'ssomething that is part of your
(10:14):
practice as well, this idea ofA) putting work in the public
space. But also this realconcern about the performance of
installation or display. Can youtell us a little bit about maybe
the works of yours that you'vemade in public space? And how
that works?
Mark Valenzuela (10:32):
are talking about the Philippines?
Andrew Purvis (10:34):
We can talk about Philippines or here. Yeah.
Mark Valenzuela (10:36):
So the ones that I made here is, yeah, so
it's reinforced by my act ofputting works around public
places and public spaces. And Iget fascinated, I guess, this
this these things are quite -tobe honest- came later in my
practice. So and that's thereason why probably because the
(11:00):
when I started exhibiting inManila, Manila could be like
there's hundreds of exhibitionsevery day, and... No not every
day, every week. But there's alot of exhibitions, hundreds of
galleries, and you can you caneven make a living out of it,
you know, like, you know what, Imean? You don't have to cook
(11:20):
dinner, you just go exhibitionsevery night, so
Andrew Purvis (11:23):
Oh that kind of living, Okay, all right. I think
that was different from whateveryone was imagining.
Mark Valenzuela (11:30):
And and yeah, so it's very space-bound. Not
very performative. There arefew, but you can only count them
in the fingers on your in yourfingers. So when I came here,
this provide me a lot of havinga big spaces to do things and,
(11:51):
you know, your work don't getdamaged or you know, things like
that. So there's a lot offreedom in the street to so
there are spaces like that inthe Philippines. But as far as I
said, it's not that muchcompared here. So most of my,
the street part of my work isactually when I moved in
(12:12):
Australia and visited Indonesiaas well, because Indonesia is
very big in performative art andstreet art as well. So yeah.
Andrew Purvis (12:22):
And when we're talking about here, you the
street art that you'reexhibiting, it can range from
stencils, but also include someceramic, which is pretty
Mark Valenzuela (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Because it's
unusual.
Andrew Purvis (12:33):
They disappear
the idea of occupying space. Soyeah, so the object will leave
it there. To it occupies spacefor a little bit. But sometimes
forever. And, yeah. So and thenand then stencils of course. The
only problem with stencils isthat it occupies space longer,
(12:57):
because with ceramic, it becomesan object. And people love objects.
Mark Valenzuela (13:04):
They disappear.
Andrew Purvis (13:08):
But this idea of territoriality, of occupying
space is certainly somethingthat is very much an
undercurrent of the currentexhibition. But it runs through
quite a lot of your work. Do youwant to talk about how that idea
of territoriality stems fromboth your upbringing, your life
(13:29):
in the Philippines and what youencountered when you came to
Australia? Those differences inpublic space maybe.
Mark Valenzuela (13:35):
Yeah, that's a very difficult question. Yes.
Well, I've been talking aboutterritoriality in my work for
like, ages already. And that'sprobably because of my
upbringing as well. And I liveagain, I came from the
Philippines and the Philippinesis always subject for outside
(13:56):
forces all the time. So there'salways, you know,
Andrew Purvis (14:01):
there's colonial influences
Mark Valenzuela (14:02):
yeah, yeah. And there's always a threat of
invasion, you know, like peoplegrab our lands and stuff like
that. So that's an ongoingproblem and phenomenon in the
Philippines, even up to now. Sothat probably is one major
reason as well. So and but alsomy dad used to be in the
military. So there's a lot ofthat. There's a lot of that. And
(14:27):
when I came here, it's adifferent world again, right. So
the way we define the rat racehere is very different again.
Andrew Purvis (14:34):
Yeah. From our conversations, it ranges from
this geopolitical sense of likenational boundaries and
territorial borders. But alsowhen you arrived in Australia,
you were telling me about theway public spaces divided up the
sort of backyard fence; thedifference between noise and
density you experience in thePhilippines as you experience
(14:55):
here. Can you talk a little bitabout that that different
experience into the environment,of moving through these
different cities.
Mark Valenzuela (15:04):
You know, the I forget that the which, which
Superman movie it was like whenGeneral Zod came to Earth and
sort of like the
Andrew Purvis (15:20):
is that with the Phantom Zone
Mark Valenzuela (15:20):
Yeah, and chasing Superman somewhere. And
that the edge of Superman isthat his system adjusted already
to the environment. He can hearthings but he can also block
things. Like, you know,background noise
Andrew Purvis (15:35):
his super hearing is so sensitive but he's learned
to live in a noisy planet.
Mark Valenzuela (15:41):
Yeah. So and then Zod can't take that right,
because it's new for him. Soit's a bit like that for me, you
know, and I'm not saying thatI'm Superman or
Andrew Purvis (15:48):
you're General Zod!
Mark Valenzuela (15:50):
you know, but it's a bit like that for me,
like, you know, I even made ashow about that called
Terraforming. So it's about, youknow, how you adapt a space,
right. And then also, when youcome to a space, there's a
pre-existing noise or backgroundnoise that you it's you're not
accustomed to, you know? In thePhilippines we hear a lot of
(16:13):
background noise like roosterscrowing because they're farmed
and farmed to fight, and straydogs, hundreds and millions of
stray dogs and stray animals andthen and of course, we live
really close to each other, youknow, that provided us, you
know, like a beautifulbackground noise that I sort of
(16:34):
missed. When I came, I used tobe critical about that when I
was there. Because there's somethere's no private space, you
know, like, When can I haveprivacy? I have to climb a
mountain, -which is for real- Ihave to climb a mountain to get
my own space, you know? So yeah,
Andrew Purvis (16:50):
and you can get some clay while you're there.
Mark Valenzuela (16:52):
Yeah. But here when I arrived here, it's a bit
different. It's so quiet for me.And I can hear my, you know, my
tummy rumbling. You know, I canhear it. Like literally, I told
my friends about it. One inThailand said like, 'isn't that
beautiful? You can hear you canhear everything?' Yeah, it's
(17:12):
beautiful. But sometimes also itcould be isolating as well. Oh,
you hear a lot? You see a lot. Iknow. Yeah, you hear a lot. You
see a lot, but not so much noisethat so much background noise,
but you hear a lot. Becauseeverything gets magnified.
Andrew Purvis (17:32):
Yesah, To use another superhero analogy, it's
a bit like Daredevil, who'sable, whose smell and hearing is
more amplified and can sort oflike pick up on things that
other people don't notice. Butthere's a really nice work in
the Still Tied to a Treeexhibition, which is the ceramic
leaf blower and on the end ofthe leaf blower is a is not a
(17:53):
nozzle to blow air, but is ahuman ear.
Mark Valenzuela (17:56):
Yeah. So the human ear is like way, way back,
to my probably 10 years in mypractice. But I just use the
ears now as you know, as leaves.I made this leaf blower actually
inspired by a work because ofthis guy
Andrew Purvis (18:15):
You'd better say who this guy is, for the
recording
Mark Valenzuela (18:17):
It's Andrew Stock. And he showed me this
work of a student of yours?
Andrew Stock (18:23):
Yep
Mark Valenzuela (18:24):
That is a leaf blower. And I said to myself,
Oh, this is really I thoughtthis was really an Australian
thing, you know. So in myneighborhood, like, wherever I
go, I can hear leaf blowers-that's probably the new
background noise. And it'sbeautiful, because I tried it.
It's beautiful when you're onthe side where the trigger is,
(18:44):
you know, but if you're theopposite of that side, it's not
so much. It's very, likeannoying. So that's probably is
the the background noise thatI'm talking about here.
Andrew Purvis (18:54):
And it's a background noise that speaks so
much about control of space andsort of like pushing the leaf
out of your little plot of landand things and
Mark Valenzuela (19:01):
and making everything tidy. Yeah, yeah. Has
to be tidy.
Andrew Purvis (19:10):
So that that leaf blower, the human ear, I think
evokes a lot of your your workwhich, while it can deal with
political ideas, they're oftencouched in very surreal,
sometimes humorous, but oftendisturbing imagery. Can you tell
us where these strangecreatures, severed body parts,
and sort of odd amalgamationscome from? Is that just the way
(19:32):
your mind works or?
Mark Valenzuela (19:34):
Yeah, a little bit of that, yeah. Probably
drinking so much coffee as well.No, another thing is animism,
which is again during thepre-colonial Philippines, that's
our belief system. And even now,you know, when the Spanish
arrived during the 1500s, theybrought in another belief system
(19:57):
which is Christianity, and thenIslam as well came in from the
south. And all of these, youknow, get sort of like, mixed up
with animism. So our beliefsystem now is quite combination
of those different religiousbelief system and, and plus
animism. So I'm quite familiarwith it. So that's another thing
(20:18):
like in terms of figuration whenpeople make in the Philippines,
you can say you can see like,oh, it looks very surreal was
actually way, way before then.Yeah. Because it's, it's about
our culture before... beforecolonialism. So. So there's a
(20:39):
lot of we believe in, like, theworld is inhabited by good and
bad spirits. Like, almosteverything, even natural
disasters or natural phenomenon.Like, we believe that that's the
spirit guiding that or
Andrew Purvis (20:56):
and objects as well
Mark Valenzuela (20:57):
and objects as well. So that's why my work is
like that, like, they look like,you know, animated objects, you
know?
Andrew Purvis (21:06):
Yeah. And it feels less unusual if these
objects like a leaf blowersuddenly takes on this kind of
organic life of its own. That'sreally interesting.
Mark Valenzuela (21:16):
Yeah. So, and then also, the way I put my
works together, even I have thisbig idea, but in between the
works this tiny little, yeah.meanings into it. And I love I
love that in my work as well. Soand then in in that is, again,
(21:37):
that is again, very backed up bythe by my my background,
cultural background, which is,you know, mythology belief
system and stuff like that. So,if you go in the exhibition
there, that particular workthere in front of you, the
(22:01):
banana heart that is
Andrew Purvis (22:04):
so Mark's referring to the banana hearts
that are suspended inside thesesteel armatures that kind of
that hold them in place and looklike they're kind of draining
them
Mark Valenzuela (22:13):
That's really an amazing work, not because
it's my work, but I just love Ijust love the way I was able to
manipulate the material or thewhole, the whole idea and put it
here. And, and it's actuallythose three banana heart there
that the transformation of thebanana heart into this... you
(22:36):
know, Superman, what do you callthat, the logo of Superman?
Andrew Purvis (22:41):
yeah, Superman's sort of chest emblem with the
'S' inside
Mark Valenzuela (22:44):
And then it turned into that,
Andrew Purvis (22:47):
yeah, so they object to that marks describing
as a banana heart that on oneside features the silhouette of
Superman's distinctive sort ofdiamond shaped chest emblem,
that then morphs into anintermediate shape and then
finally changes into the ace ofspades,
Mark Valenzuela (23:03):
the ace of spades.
Andrew Purvis (23:04):
Yeah, and I really like that work because
there is such a kind of polarphilosophical difference between
what Superman represents andwhat the ace of spades, that
sort of reset Motorhead kind ofsymbol of chaos maybe?
Mark Valenzuela (23:17):
Yeah or even, you know, the spikes of gates
and fences? Yeah, so, there's alot of, you know, there's a lot
of, again, that goes back againto territoriality and
gatekeeping. Again, which isbig, big, you know, layer in my
work. Yeah. And, and, and I tellyou a little bit of story of the
mythology behind bananas.
Andrew Purvis (23:37):
Please, Yeah. Go for it
Mark Valenzuela (23:38):
Well, it's, it's, at a certain time, you
have to catch this sort of likea pearl before the banana heart
blooms. So according to ourbelief system, way before the
Spaniards again, you have tocatch it on the right time, and
to give you like spiritual... ifyou catch up on the right time,
(24:01):
you have to wait there under thebanana tree or the banana shrub.
You have to wait for that littlelittle pearl or sort of like
Andrew Purvis (24:11):
the droplet
Mark Valenzuela (24:12):
that drops from the bottom of the banana heart
before it blooms. And it givesyou it was believed that it
gives you a supernatural powerslike powers and makes you
invincible and somehow like, youknow, impenetrable by bullets
and stuff like so. So I'm youramulets and stuff are, you know,
(24:32):
big thing in the Philippinestoo.
Andrew Purvis (24:35):
Wow. So that artwork is sort of showing an
almost kind of mechanizedfactory production system to
extract that mystical essence.
Mark Valenzuela (24:44):
Yeah. And based on an animism again, there will
be like creatures from theunderworld waiting for it as
well. Like, but they cannotaccess it directly, they have to
wait for a human being to catchthat right moment before it
drops. And then suddenly they'lltake -these creatures waiting-
(25:04):
will take that away from thewhoever capture it. So this, I
like the metaphor of that interms of a lot of things in the
Philippines and here frompatriarchy, you know, even
violence as well as well sort oflike accepted phenomenon.
Andrew Purvis (25:23):
I think that's an interesting thing to touch on,
because while your work is verydense with this kind of
mythological and culturalelusions, there's also an
undercurrent of violence in in alot of your work, these sort of
severed body parts, but also,the current show is filled with
these ceramic versions of curvedrebar that have been bent into
butcher's hooks. What does thismotif of like the butcher's
(25:45):
hook, and this kind ofundercurrent of violence
represent in your in yourpractice?
Mark Valenzuela (25:51):
Well, violence and fragility, they go hand in
hand. So and that's one reasonwhy you ceramic, so I just use
the object without, so I've beenusing ceramic for that reason.
And, and violence, obviously,it's my background again. So you
(26:11):
know, and how, you know, thebeauty of clay, the beauty of
clay is that it can, it can moldit, it can, it's very malleable,
you can touch it, and it's verytherapeutic at some point. But
you can also freeze its form.And you can also mimic other
materials without losing its,you know, its own personal
(26:34):
characteristic and identity. Andyou put it in a kiln, when you
put in the kiln, it becomes anobject. Because you fired it,
becomes solid, and yeah, itlasts forever. But if you drop
it, it breaks. So there's a lotof, sort of, like violence in
the material, if you if you justlook into the material itself,
(26:55):
and even firing in a kiln. Imean, who wants to be inside a
kiln?
Andrew Purvis (26:58):
*laughs*
Mark Valenzuela (26:59):
So yeah, so I love that with clay, I love
that. And, and then thebutcher's hook, of course, like
when you look at the butcher'shooks it's... the form itself is
very violent already. And then,and then you get this hooks made
of clay. For me, that's reallyfascinating. The, the, you know,
the opposite. Sort of like theyhave opposite, you know, purpose
(27:26):
somehow, you know, like, thebutcher's hook has to stand
weight, and, you know, and thenbut Clay; Clay defies it by
saying like, 'Oh, it's fragile'.In the streets in the
Philippines, it's a lot ofbutchery, metaphorically and
literally. So there's a lot of,you know, buther's places in the
(27:47):
street, that's one of thosethings then cock houses as well,
the fighting cock roosters andthe tires, the vulcanizing tires
as well. So these are thestreets, these are the street
art in the Philippines.
Andrew Purvis (28:00):
Yeah, and that sort of furniture of the streets
in the Philippines comes intothe gallery and fills the space
in your exhibition.
Mark Valenzuela (28:06):
Yeah. So in have been talking to Anna about
this, about the theory ofopposition. And just by the way,
my, the structure of my work isabout chess; the structure of my
work is based on chess, becauseI play a lot of chess. And
there's one thing in, you know,in chess, that's called the
(28:28):
opposition, that theory ofopposition, direct opposition in
particular, which, you know, youleft with a king and on both
sides King on the same file onsame rank, and then you get a
pawn, that if that gets promotedat the eighth rank, it becomes
easy for you to win the game, ofcourse, obviously,
Andrew Purvis (28:49):
because it becomes a queen
Mark Valenzuela (28:50):
it becomes a queen, right. But if you're the
defender, you prevent the kingfrom occupying a space in the
middle. And you don't want thepawn to... because once the king
occupies that... a king with apawn that occupies the middle
already the space in the middle,because there's a gap between
(29:10):
two kings. Once the king withthe pawn occupies that, that
automatic, automatically thepawn behind the king becomes a
queen. And and then the otherway around, if you're defending
it, you prevent that by doingthe opposition. And my work is
it's it's it's like that. Sowhen I first came here you know,
(29:35):
it's a bit quiet for me. So, Isaid to myself, I'm going to
fill the gap, like there'splenty of gaps and spaces, I'm
going to fill it up a bit. Thatwill that will actually help me
navigate the space as well.
Andrew Purvis (29:51):
So your art strategically is like a
counter-move to the environmentthat you're in.
Mark Valenzuela (29:55):
Exactly. And when I go to the Philippines I
do the other way around. I makethis like really pristine in one
work, minimalist one. Like,'what? It's only two works?'
Yeah, because it was differentthere as well. It's crowded so.
So I like that, I like that.
Andrew Purvis (30:13):
I really like it. That sort of connection to
chess, which I understand is areally is a huge interest for
you and something drives you,it's probably not something that
is visible on the surface ofwork. But this understanding of
the strategies of chess or theapproaches to playing that game
really inform the way in whichyou work even on a meta level of
(30:33):
how you decide you make yourexhibitions. And we were talking
before, and you were describingthe show that's in the gallery
now, as an 'intermediate stage',I know there are intermediate
moves in chess as well. But whatdid you mean by by this
exhibition in the gallery now asbeing an intermediate stage for
this, this work?
Mark Valenzuela (30:52):
Well. I always find a space or a gallery or any
other spaces for exhibition,sometimes it stops a certain
time, certain moment, it beginsin a certain time, it stops on a
certain time. So sort of like, Iwant to expand that because for
(31:12):
me, sometimes, or most of thetime, my practice is about now
it's more of like putting thingstogether. So I have this
creating an object thing, andand the object thing, and then
put them together and make animmersive installation. But
sometimes it's tough. And Idon't want it to stop. So my way
(31:35):
of doing it is, this is justhappens lately, because I sort
of like find it very, very, youknow, like, annoying at some
point that we get accumulate, weget works accumulated,
particularly artists like me,that makes a lot of things,
(31:57):
right. And they culminate, mostof the time after the exhibition
in a storage.
Andrew Purvis (32:02):
Yeah.
Mark Valenzuela (32:03):
So part of the big part of my practice is
reconfiguring and putting thingsup, bringing new meanings to my
work again,
Andrew Purvis (32:11):
and when we were talking about this from a kind
of animus perspective, maybe,you were describing things that
end up in storage is, they'vedied.
Mark Valenzuela (32:17):
Yeah. So they sort of like they die, or they
become dead. And because youknow, how work becomes dead when
you don't look at it, or youdon't engage in it, but it
becomes alive again, when youlook at it. I just want my work
to be at some point dynamic. andI want it moving. You know, so
this exhibition, I sort ofsomehow design the structures
(32:41):
and, and the works that will fitin my studio in the future. So
my studio is the another spacethat I could keep on
reconfiguring keep on changingthe meaning of the works. And
it's endless, the endlesspossibility that it's like,
again, it's one of those chessthing again, like, you know,
(33:04):
when you're when you when youyou're playing chess, you get,
you have this, plenty of linesthat you can go and branches and
branches. When you go to yourspace. That's, that's millions
of possibilities. And, and themeaning changes from time to
time, the way they're verydifferent to the way we put an
(33:25):
object and its function. Andlook at an object and its
function is sometimes boxed intoone meaning. So
Andrew Purvis (33:33):
I think it's a really interesting way for an
artist to think about theirpractice to not consider an
exhibition as a terminal pointas a culmination like, this is
now done. And you take worksfrom previous exhibitions,
sometimes you reconfigure themrework them, but sometimes you
just transplant it from one showto the next, and it feels a lot
more sustainable. And a lot moreintegrated into a continuing
(33:56):
practice.
Mark Valenzuela (33:57):
Yeah, exactly. Because that's, that's what
probably all artists are facingright now, after an exhibition,
we're gonna throw these things.Not everybody gets acquired or,
you know, being loved. So, Imean, not everything this end up
in a bin or sometimes recyclebins, or they sometimes, you
know, grow what I mean Grove,you break them if they're
(34:19):
ceramic, so, yeah, so I,sustainability is a big thing.
Like, how do you? How do you dothe I think it's time to do that
as an artist, you know, plannedit ahead, probably, that's the
planning stage that I that everyartist should reconsider. So
that they just, I mean, fromtimber, to nails to everything,
(34:42):
they shouldn't just go in and beand they should.
Andrew Purvis (34:47):
I'd love to touch on some of the specific works in
this exhibition as well whilewe've still got a little bit of
time. One of the mostdistinctive techniques that you
use is using the surface of aceramic object is a space for
drawing. That happens a numberof times in the show, but I'm
thinking particularly about thealiwarus creature that is
(35:07):
suspended high up on the wall inthe gallery. How do you go about
achieving this effect of usingthe ceramic surfaces as a
surface for creating a drawing?
Mark Valenzuela (35:17):
Well, also, I really love drawings at lot.
love to draw a lot. So I used todraw everybody that shows
everyday anyway, including youright?
Andrew Purvis (35:29):
But to varying degrees of proficiency, but
yeah, I think you're better atit than I am.
Mark Valenzuela (35:33):
But again, like the sculpture itself, I will or
the installation itself, I loveto look, I love to look at it as
a drawing. And one one thingthat I actually get fascinated
with is like when you coveringinstead of glaze covering the
work. And I used to put drawingsa lot on the work on an object,
(35:56):
but that will give you again,you focus to an object, right.
So now I look at the work now ina distance, more from a distance
of drawing makes sense, it lookslike the whole installation is a
drawing. So ceramic ceramicpencil is one thing I sometimes
(36:17):
use acrylic stencils and stuffbut I seldom do that in my work
in my on my ceramic, what I do,what I use is the pencil,
because it looks like it lookslike pencil but it's not. It's a
it's made of clay. And then youfire it high, and it's retains,
it becomes part of the clay. Soit's like
Andrew Purvis (36:39):
there's a huge sort of textural similarity
between that clay pencil on thesurface of the clay and the wall
drawing that you create in thegallery as well. They look very
similar but they're actuallycompletely different substances.
Mark Valenzuela (36:51):
Yeah, because it can erase. I used to make fun
of, when I was in thePhilippines I had exhibition
like when material is quite newthere. And I used to used to
tell people like because somesome some collectors in the
Philippines it's funny becausethey tried to erase it, like,
Oh, can you erase this? Yeah,I'll give it to you if you can
erase it. It's gonna, it's quitefunny, it becomes embedded in
(37:12):
the work and becomes the workitself. So that's the beauty of
it.
Andrew Purvis (37:16):
But this new body of work also shows a lot more
experimenting with glazes. Ifeel like that's, that's quite a
bit of a departure for yourpractice is that can you tell us
what's been going on in thestudio?
Mark Valenzuela (37:26):
Well, well, I tend to, even though I have in
forms I have I have this, youknow, I don't want to control
the form, I just let let letplay with the form the way I
play with the clay and then letthe form sometimes comes out.
But in terms of glazing, I'mworried about it so much. And I
(37:48):
think I mentioned it in one ofthe talks in AGSA that I
never... I build kilns, rightand I fired anagama kilns as
well I even built an anagamakiln on here with my partner in
the south in Normanville. So Iused to fire with anagama with
using other people's work, notmy work design. And I'm worried
(38:11):
that it doesn't come up, right.I'm not experimenting with other
people's work.
Unknown (38:16):
[laughter]
Mark Valenzuela (38:16):
But it's just I know that it doesn't work with
my work because there's atendency with object that when
you put it there with all theglazes you're wasting your time,
you could be a waste of time,you know, the whole thing. And
as sort of like even the same,the same concept with glazing
that could the firing could ruina work, you know, and then it's
(38:38):
not like a cup that you could,you know, make it into one of
those seconds that you can, youcan still reuse it but when it
comes to sculpture, it's itcould die quickly
Andrew Purvis (38:48):
well it's really interesting. I mean you you are
a chess player, and that is agame of skill. And glazing is a
game of chance, I think is whatyou're telling me.
Mark Valenzuela (38:57):
Well, it's not a game of chance - with natural
ash it is a game of chance, butwith glazing using glazing
materials that is a precisescience as well as a science
that and that's prettypredictable. At some point, my
only worry is that when I putthat in my work it I could I
(39:17):
couldn't imagine it as quick asthat it just just doesn't work
yet and I can so glazing is newto me. So no no no not sorry.
not new to me but new in mywork. And this time around, I
just let it loose. So what yousee there is a mixture of
different glazes that I don'teven know why I just put them in
(39:40):
one one thing work out and Ijust repeated it.
Andrew Purvis (39:43):
It's a really exciting sort of variety of
different surface textures andcolours and an effects of the
glaze.
Mark Valenzuela (39:49):
Yeah it's amazing because it it's it's a
kind of glaze that flows reallywhen it's high temperature it
flows down and I've sacrificed alot of shelves.
Andrew Purvis (39:58):
Yeah you were saying
Mark Valenzuela (40:00):
Yeah, because it gets it gets stuck in the
shelf. Right. But also themovement can see the movement.
Yeah. Like the movement ofglazes makes the work alive.
Yeah. So that's why, like,probably I'm gonna sit over that
surface for a bit. Yeah, not butnot forever.
Andrew Purvis (40:22):
Another element of the show that I really like
is there's a sequence of smalldrawings, which you call your
'brewing drawings'. And theseare part of a daily ritual that
you took, can you tell us alittle bit about the role that
habit and ritual plays in yourpractice, and for listeners at
home, I will just let them knowthat before we sat down to talk,
Mark has brought his entire kitin here to brew us, he's going
(40:45):
to get a top up, he brought hiskit in here to brew us a cup of
coffee, and he's just getting alittle top-up of coffee now. So
I think that this is a this is abig ritual that's a big part of
your work as well.
Mark Valenzuela (40:54):
Same as a space-making too, like I've been
Andrew Purvis (40:55):
But I think that's a really nice comment,
thinking and been saying aboutthis forever to my all my
friends that I want to make aspace same as, very similar to
tea ceremony, and then I make aspace made of ceramic, like or
because it kind of takes us fullcircle back to what we were
other found objects, and then Ibrew coffee there, and then have
(41:15):
conversation because that's...usually with the coffee, it's
it's quick, it's fast, we loveto just drink it and go, right.
talking about before this ideaof your practice not being
So sort of like I want to putback ritual in my work. And
brewing drawing is again, athing that you know, I do I do
everyday, every morning. Soevery morning I draw parallel to
(41:37):
if you follow my Instagram, youcan find that there. So this
restricted to the to the objectin space. But considering that
drawing is this brewing. And sorelated and and the reason why I
love that is that it, it bringsme back to the detail of my
practice, you know how chess isthe structure. And almost like,
my strategy in my art practicein my art making. And each line,
(41:57):
process by which it's made,considering how something is
in order to go through each lineand opening, you go back to the
detail, which is very importantas well. And then coffee, give,
gave that back to me, you know,that attention to detail again.
So and then focus into makingfun object I used to the problem
fired, what it's surface is likeand how it exists in space, and
(42:17):
is I used before, I used to havethis conflict in myself about
making an object a non-object.And it's a beautiful comment
that I received from an artistsomewhere I met in Northern
Territory and a really goodartist, and she she just called
how it might move and changeover time. I think that's a
my work as an object. And atthat time, I got really, you
(42:38):
know, like, it went into myhead, in other words. So I said,
like, I'm not gonna make I'm notjust making an object. So there
really fascinating aspect ofyour practice that I love that
was this conflict in me, like,how can I make an un-object? You
know, and, and then theperformance probably is one way
to do it. But also, and then Ijust this, you know, like, I was
(43:00):
able to have this, you know,realization like, well, it could
we have this opportunity to havethis conversation because it
be an object that criticize anobject, you know, could be an
object that is an anti-object.So now I just said, like,
Alright, back to details. Don'tworry about the
object/non-object thing they'rejust all, you know, a perception
(43:21):
really comes out. And I hopepeople get the opportunity to
thing so.
revisit Mark's show during itsrun here because it will grow
(43:52):
It will grow and change. And themore you go in there -it's an
and change
it's an immersive work- the moreyou grow in there, the more you
see things as well. Yeah, yeah.So it brings you back to the
individual piece, the object,which is not necessarily an
object.
(44:13):
Mark's right, you will see morethings that more often you go
back there, he has an incrediblydense and complicated practice,
which maybe can't be unpacked inan hour's talk, but maybe you
might be able to find more byreading this book. But we also
have a few minutes now for somequestions from the audience. So
does anyone have any questionsfor Mark?
Audience Member (44:37):
How do you think traveling has... do you
think it's improved your work ordo you it's changed it in a
certain way?
Mark Valenzuela (44:44):
Yeah, it does actually. Like even just coming
here in Australia. There was atime in my life like probably
the five years of my life when Ilive here, I still consider
living here as travellingbecause I still I perceive my,
you know, my where I come from,or the country where I come from
(45:05):
as the home and I found it verydifficult to. Anyway. So yeah,
it does a lot. So when I camehere it changed my, my practice,
it changed my practice a lot.And then of course, going
somewhere going to exhibitionsin Southeast Asia, every time,
(45:25):
it's important. Traveling isimportant. It opens your, you
know, your world, in many ways,you know, sometimes we, you
know, as a practitioner, you endup like just staying in your
studio. And working, travelingprovides you a community that
you realize that, oh, in otherparts of the world, you get
(45:48):
community there as well. So andyou see other people's work
other people's properties, andit helps you a lot. It's like a
natural critic. When you seethey're like, Oh, I'm doing
worse than what she's doing. Andthen you change, you grow from
Audience Member (46:08):
I just want to go back to what is perceived
that.
criticism of being workingtoward an object is, is it
possible to sort of see what I'mthinking anyway, what we do when
we we make things when we aremaking objects? But it's
(46:30):
because, I think this is whatyou were alluding to, because
they they communicate,therefore, it's in the
communication with the artworkis, they're still objects. And
if noone sees them, if they'relocked away after an exhibition
in storage, they're objects,
Mark Valenzuela (46:46):
yes they're the objects,
Andrew Stock (46:47):
but the art happens, as it were. And these
objects are transformed inrelationship with other than
themselves. So the audience
Mark Valenzuela (46:58):
yeah, and it gets animated. Yeah.
Andrew Stock (47:00):
Yeah, it gets animated. Is that what you were
kind of alluding to?
Mark Valenzuela (47:05):
Well, whatever you do, I mean, everything is an
object anyway. Yes. So the onlything is, you don't want it to
be just what I meant aboutbecoming an object is tied to a
single meaning. Yes. And I don'tmind that. But recently, my
practice, I think, I mean, inreality as well, you know,
(47:28):
things change, you know?
Andrew Stock (47:31):
For me, it's always been a classic case of
the political meeting themetaphysical.
Mark Valenzuela (47:38):
Yeah,
Andrew Stock (47:39):
and creating objects that purvey the meaning,
and the journeys of thatprocess. Yeah. Which you arrive
at through the very physicalprocess of making an object, and
those ideas then solidify theobject, which is now an
artifact, because it generatesmeaning.
Mark Valenzuela (47:59):
Yeah. It's that's a very complex question
there, Andrew.
Andrew Stock (48:09):
Yeah, well, it's to a complex guy.
Mark Valenzuela (48:12):
Yeah. So yeah, so again, the is, again, the
object becomes just an objectwith a single meaning. And, and,
for me, that's quite static forme right. And in my practice, is
what I've been saying that Iwant my work to be more dynamic
(48:33):
at the same time moving, moving,and, and it changes it morphs
into something else, it morphsinto, into another having a
different meaning depends uponthe space, because the idea is
the space always change the, theinhabitants and vice versa.
Andrew Stock (48:49):
So the context changes
Mark Valenzuela (48:50):
The context, yeah, the context change. So in
that way, in some way, want toretain the like, and if you just
put one meaning to it, andthat's it, that's, that's That's
it, you know, put a line to it.That's a box, you know. And, it
becomes it becomes simplified,it becomes simplified. So I
(49:13):
don't want that. So I wantedthis. That's what I said, your
question is complex, and thework the object, the object
definition is very complex aswell.
Audience Member (49:23):
Do you think about how the audience will
understand the work? I mean,every audience member will have
a different view of what anobject is, what a given object
means. Do you do put together,do you assemble your exhibition
on the basis of a vision youhave? Or is it in response to
what you think, viewers mightunderstand it to me?
Mark Valenzuela (49:46):
Yeah, that's a very good question a bit of both
for me, because there are timesthat I, of course, consider the
audience as part of the spaceright, and the way they react
and the way they perceive theobject that I'm making or the
space that I'm making is, is,you know, they become part of
the I mean, the audience will bepart of that as well. So the
(50:10):
reaction is one thing. But alsothere is a thing sometimes that
it's just about me. You know? Imean, why not? Like, sometimes
you need it, sometimes you needit, sometimes you can see the
audience, sometimes not. Becausein the end, you know, it's about
(50:32):
you something, probably most ofthe time. I hope I answered that
question. Well, so that's whyit's a bit of both, it's a bit
of both. And you can do playboth as well, like you can
consider the audience and at thesame time, it's about you. But
that's pretty stressful, at somepoint,
Audience Member (50:50):
The art here is in a school. The art at the Art
Gallery of South Australia is ina museum, yet, they have
complementary functions. But youmight not, well you might have,
thought about what work youwould put here, what work you
would put there. Is the workthat's in the Art Gallery going
(51:10):
to be changing, is that going tobe evolving?
Mark Valenzuela (51:13):
I added a few bits there. But that's based,
the exhibition that is based onthe the collections that works
that they acquired from meduring the Biennial. And I get
the point that this there arelimits there as well. So but
maybe,
Andrew Purvis (51:30):
whereas here we have no limits.
Mark Valenzuela (51:33):
I like that
Andrew Purvis (51:35):
I might've put myself in for something there.
Mark Valenzuela (51:36):
But I have a few options that I could
interchange the duckies. Buthere, I love it. I love that. I
Andrew Purvis (51:39):
I think that might be where we need to leave
love it. They're different. Andwhen I decide because when I
when... if I've given the chanceto occupy two spaces, I will
make it as fluid as I can. It'snot like this object only
belongs here and that objectbelongs there or that work
(51:59):
belongs here, that work belongsthere; I want them to be really
related because it's made bymyself and it's all about, again
it goes back to me and I madethose works. They're all
related, as they fall into oneflow according to the way I live
my life.
(52:20):
this conversation. Thank you allvery much for joining us and can
you please thank MarkValenzuela.
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