March 31, 2023 • 43 mins
In this episode, Steph catches up with artist Chris De Rosa in her home studio in Port Elliot. They chat about how she found her way to art-making, the versatility of paper as a material, her recent exhibition Seaweeding, and how living on the coast informs her practice.
Show Notes
- Transcript of this interview [PDF]
- Henry de Toulouse-Lautrec – French painter, printmaker, illustrator
- JamFactory
- Paper Mache / Papier Mache
- flora (noun): the plants of a particular region, habitat, or geological period.
- Seaweeding exhibition [art almanac] [inDaily]
- beachcombing (noun): an activity that consists of an individual “combing” (or searching) the beach and the intertidal zone, looking for things of value, interest, or utility.
- Museum of Economic Botany
- Jessie Hussey
- Spongia: a genus of marine sponges in the family Spongiidae containing more than 60 species.
- Porifera: the phylum that sponges belong to.
- Taxonomic rank (phylum, class, order, family, genus, species)
- The Drowned World, JG Ballard, 1962
- Sea Tulip
- bust (noun): a sculpture of a person’s head, shoulders, and chest.
- Honor Freeman: artist, performer
- Mickey Mason: artist & filmmaker
- Susi Benger: eco-conscious swimwear designer @CocoAndShy
- Horseshoe Bay, Port Elliot
- Super 8: type of film camera
- Giuseppe Faraone: sound designer
- Cath Kenneally: writer, poet.
- Rosina Possingham: artist, graphic designer Guildhouse Catapult mentorship program
- Trent Walter & Stuart Geddes [artguide interview]
- Good Bank Gallery, McLaren Vale
- Valerie Taylor: artist, filmmaker, marine conservationist
- ‘Water People’ exhibition (28 May - 31 July 2023) at Coral St Art Space, Victor Harbor
- Flinders University Museum of Art
- @Chris_DeRosa on Instagram
Music: Monplaisir - The Rise The Walk The Hope via FMA.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[intro music]
Steph (00:17):
Hello and welcome to the SALA Podcast. Today I'm in the
lovely seaside town of PortElliot in South Australia, which
is kind of the heel of the bootif you think of the Fleurieu
Peninsula as a boot, andKangaroo Island as a football.
It's a lovely balmy day, youmight be able to hear the
corellas screeching in thebackground, promise they're
(00:39):
okay, that's just the noise thatthey make. While I'm enjoying
the the flora and fauna, I wouldlike to acknowledge the
Traditional Owners of theselands and waters, the Ramindjeri
and Ngarrindjeri people; and anyother nations with a connection
to this area, and acknowledgethe Elders past, present, and
future.
I'm in -it's not little by anystretch- I'm in a studio, which
(01:03):
is covered wall-to-wall, evenfrom the ceiling with artworks.
I am here with the lovely Chrisde Rosa. Hello.
Chris (01:11):
Hi.
Steph (01:12):
Thank you for welcoming me in here. I feel like I'm
being privy to way too much. Somuch happening in here. It's
quite...
Chris (01:21):
it's busy.
Steph (01:21):
It is busy, but in a nice way. And it's it's actually
doing wonders for the acousticsfor this recording. So thank you
twice.
Chris (01:28):
It was managed that way.
Steph (01:29):
Oh yeah - so thoughtful. Before we take a deep dive, can
you just give a couple ofsentences or a bit of a brief of
how would you describe yourpractice to someone that hasn't
encountered it?
Chris (01:43):
A 'deep dive' is a good intro into it because I kind of
deep dive most days into theocean. And that kind of feeds
this practice
Steph (01:53):
That was appropriate to start then wasn't it?
Chris (01:55):
It was, but I think you've used it before. I think
I've heard it once or twicebefore.
Steph (01:58):
Oh, guilty as charged.
Chris (01:58):
But this time, it's super appropriate. I make a kind of,
it's kind of a multidisciplinarypractice. That's kind of you
know, a go-to-word
Steph (02:10):
so you're not tied down
Chris (02:11):
Yeah, not to tie anything down. But I am kind of at the
core of it is is a printmakingpractice. And even though I
don't feel that I'm atraditional -I don't know if
that's quite the word- but atraditional printmaker. I really
rely on the process ofprintmaking to inform my
(02:32):
practice. So that's what Iinitially studied. And it's kind
of at the core of everythingthat I do; print making - the
expanded field.
Steph (02:45):
Yeah. Love it.
Chris (02:50):
But most recently, kind of major installations
sculpture, video, and music.There you go. I think I've hit
them all. Music not quite. Butyou know, in collaboration, but
I can just about chuck it all inright.
Steph (03:03):
Many hats. Yeah,
Chris (03:04):
No, not really. Just one large sunhat.
Steph (03:08):
Love it, very appropriate out here. Well, that's touching
on what my next question wasgoing to be, which was, how did
you find your way to being anartist? So was there formal
training in there or?
Chris (03:19):
There's formal training there, but serendipitously
because at school, I wanted tobe an art teacher. I liked art
and biology, and I wasabsolutely, I am allowed to
swear? Fucking hopeless atschool. Easily distracted, I
think was a common description.
Steph (03:35):
Oh, yes.
Chris (03:36):
But I thought I'd be an art teacher. And I didn't. You
know, I just mucked around waytoo much and was hopeless. And
my dad's an Italian migrant,very low education. And my mom
was a nurse aide, and they werelike, like, being an artist was
not a discussion in our family.
Steph (03:55):
Not on the table?
Chris (03:56):
It wasn't it wasn't. It wasn't. No, it was you get a job
and you save up and you buy ahouse. So I became a nurse. And
I nursed for... I can't rememberthe exact amount of years but
quite a long time, and I wasquite ambitious and driven. And
part of my nursing work. I wentto Flinders Uni, I don't think
(04:18):
it was... it wasn't calledFlinders Uni.
Steph (04:21):
what would become Flinders Uni?
Chris (04:22):
It was an annex. I think, forget what...Sturt College!
That was it. So I did a postkind of grad studies in nursing.
And part of that I did anelective in printmaking, of
which my line manager washorrified that I was getting
time off work to go and studyprintmaking. But I suddenly I
had been slowly realizing thatnursing wasn't for me, that I
(04:44):
was kind of the round square peggoing in the wrong hole. So,
printmaking consumed me, and Iwould be there printing really
late at night breathing in waytoo many turps fumes, but the
lecturer was Nigel MurrayHarvey, and he really encouraged
me to pursue printmaking, whichis kind of weird, because I was
kind of like an aspiring, risingup the nursing hierarchy kind of
(05:08):
thing. So I decided, yeah, thisis right. And I left nursing and
I applied to go to StanleyStreet School of Arts. And it
was at the cusp where there wasall this talk where higher
education was about tobecome...you had to pay, so it
was about, it was about tochange. So I thought, oh my I've
(05:30):
got to get in before, before Ihave to pay.
Steph (05:33):
That's motivating.
Chris (05:33):
That was motivating. And also I took some like, I really
did use that printmakingdepartment at, at Flinders to
the max and I got some worksframed by Anima Gallery. And I
remember the guy Robert now Ican't remember his last name, he
kind of he kind of said the samething. Oh, well, you know, you
should pursue this. So it waskind of those early encouraging
(05:56):
words that pushed me. Mind you,I kind of feel that I'd been
always really interested inmaking things. I used to like
draw and make cards and do kindof weird home crafty things. But
I was always filling my room abit like the studio with hyper
colored images, you know,Toulouse-Lautrec incredible
(06:18):
lithographs. And I was obsessedwith the photos. So nothing in a
way has kind of changed becauseI'm still really interested and
fascinated with that use ofcolour and, and the way colour
can be explored and contrasted.So yeah. So then I went to art
school.
Steph (06:37):
Love it. What a journey.
Chris (06:39):
Was that the question? Was that the full question?
Steph (06:41):
Yeah. yeah. I'm just soaking it in.
Chris (06:42):
Okay. I could elaborate more, though, on what happened?
Steph (06:47):
If you want to!
Chris (06:48):
Well, yeah. Because I because part of my year 12 art
project was to... I went andinterviewed a jeweller at the
JamFactory, and that was reallyexciting for me as well. So I
kind of had this little nigglything at the back of my brain
about being a jeweller, so Ithought when I went to North
Adelaide, that was my mainfocus, jewellery-making, and I
did printmaking on the side.Well, jewellery-making obviously
didn't work out, because I justlost a lot of hair by pulling it
(07:10):
out with frustration. And I kindof, in a way, I went to a
different form of metalworkbecause it was zinc etching
plates. And so I kind of becameand harking back to that screen
printing session, late nightsessions at Flinders. So I kind
of majored in printmaking, butthe art school was quite
(07:31):
skill-based, you know, and itwas a lot about acquiring those
printmaking skills and notacquiring the jewellery skills.
Steph (07:40):
I love it.
Chris (07:41):
Oh but I was also going to say now I'm thinking more
that I was obviously a matureaged student. So by the time I
went to art school, I alreadyhad bought the house that my
parents decided I needed to buyas being a good Italian girl. I
satisfied them and then it waskind of now it's time to you
know, fulfill my...yeah.
Steph (08:00):
They couldn't hold it over you then.
Chris (08:01):
No, that's it.
Steph (08:02):
Do it all. You can have it all!
Chris (08:04):
Yeah, well. Yeah, I don't know if you can.
Steph (08:07):
Almost. no jewellery.
I don't know how to phrase thisquestion. But was there a point
of going from 2d to 3d that'sany significant? Or is that not
really? Is it just...can youjust tell me more about the
materials? Because I don't knowif we've scratched? Yeah,
there's just seems like there'sa lot.
Chris (08:26):
Well, obviously, printmaking involves paper and
paper is the thing I love.Because paper, you know, is just
so varied it can you know, fromhigh end incredibly handmade
traditional Italian papers withhuge weight and, and a
malleability to, you know, so Iuse incredible papers,
handcrafted papers like that,right down to newspaper and
(08:49):
tissue paper. So I just lovethat the qualities of paper that
it's so strong, flexible,opaque, transparent. You know,
it can be made into sculpturalforms. I spent a lot of time
perforating paper. So paper islike is, is the most important
(09:10):
material to me, but in morerecent times, and perhaps since
meeting my husband, who's apotter, I don't know if I should
claim that he's had that muchinfluence. I... No, he has.
Steph (09:25):
How much credit do you give him?
Chris (09:26):
You know, that's how much credit I give, yeah. But because
he's using three dimensionalobjects, making three
dimensional objects all thetime, I did kind of want to cash
in on that level of expertiseand have, have played with some
earthenware and developed threedimensional things. Starting
(09:47):
with, with Paperclay andearthenware. And since then I
kind of dally quite often too. Iwanted to get away from that
idea of just print, print onpaper. And wanted to add three
dimensional, two dimensionalforms to the paper to kind of
make the paper, you know, havethat sculptural element. And
(10:09):
then as I started to almost hintat before the 3d stuff, maybe
that happened...the paper machekind of stuff maybe happened
because of COVID. Becausebecause you know, you, I had a
lot of time in the studio and Ilistened to a couple of the
other podcasts and many peoplehave spoken about, you know, the
advantages of COVID. Becauseyou, you spent heaps more time
(10:33):
in the studio. So I wanted touse all the shit that's in this
room, which is a really hugeroom.
Steph (10:38):
There is some in here, yeah.
Chris (10:39):
There's a lot of stuff. And I wanted to just use what I
had.
Steph (10:42):
Yeah.
Chris (10:43):
So the material- that kind of changed my approach to
materials. And I really wantedto use the, you know, millions
of rotten prints that have gonewrong. And I just wanted to use
easily accessible stuff. So Istarted to make small paper
mache objects. I had used PUfoam quite a lot in the past,
(11:04):
but I kind of was beating myselfbecause it's, you know, a pretty
horrible plastic thing. So Iwanted to go from the PU foam to
using paper mache. So, andanother, that's another reason
for loving paper, paper becausethe paper mache is so strong and
so malleable. And you know, youcan do almost whatever you like
(11:28):
with it. So that's how I kind ofstarted making small paper mache
forms, which have evolved intokind of giant paper mache forms.
Steph (11:36):
Yeah, it's hard to even comprehend. You know, you think
of paper mache, I think a lot ofpeople think of a certain scale.
But yeah, we're beyond that.
Chris (11:43):
Oh, no. The big ones aren't even in here. The big
ones are in the... I cleaned outthe shed, to make a carport. And
now I've had to fill it withgiant paper mache forms that
maybe should just be burned. I'mnot sure. I'm not sure.
Steph (11:55):
You can't say that on this podcast.
Chris (11:57):
No, you can say that. What do you do with all the
stuff you make?
Steph (11:59):
Look it's a...
Chris (12:00):
It's a question.
Steph (12:00):
it's part of the whole practice isn't it, what do you
do for storage?
Chris (12:03):
It is. What do you do with all that stuff? Yeah.
Unknown (12:05):
[musical interlude]
Steph (12:18):
And maybe, I don't know that nice sustainability, might
tie into this next question thatI have about the themes in your
work. And whether you find thateverything that you make comes
back to some core recurringthemes, or if you find that you
have a permission to sort of goin different directions with
(12:39):
different projects.
It's both I mean, I really Ithink you have one idea. And it
just has little offshoots andbranches and you know, pathways
that travel slightlydifferently. But since moving to
the south coast, maybe over 20years ago, my practice really
shifted because I had come froma house that I bought that with
(13:04):
had like a botanic garden in it,and that was, that was what kind
of informed my practice. Andthen when I came to this place,
it was a denuded gravellandscape. So I..., the
shoreline became my food. So, Iwas really interested in the
(13:25):
things that I would find washedup on the beach. And they were
kind of brown discarded thingsthat most people wanted cleared
off the beach. You know, theywere kind of ugly and interfered
in the picnic hamper kind ofnotions.
You mean like natural things?Or...
Chris (13:40):
I mean, natural things.
Steph (13:41):
Yeah ok.
Chris (13:42):
It's funny when I think back I don't think I remember so
many unnatural things. Butthey're obviously there's a
shit-tonne now. So yeah, so themove did change what I was
looking at. So I becameinterested in the sea forms, and
I wanted to know more aboutthem. I thought they were flora
and I thought, oh, that thataligns with my practice. Like my
(14:03):
city practice investigating kindof flora. And I thought, Oh,
this is all you know, this isall sea flora. But as I delved
deeper, I realized that I wasactually looking at animals,
simple, simple animals. Simple,simple. I don't like to call
them simple organisms, becauseit sounds derogatory,
Steph (14:21):
[laughs]
Chris (14:21):
but simple, and economical, and smart organisms.
So I kind of went on a deep diveinto the kinds of things that I
was uncovering on the beat onthe shoreline.
Steph (14:32):
Yeah, that's such an interesting shift. And yet the
constants were still there aswell.
Chris (14:38):
And I had looked at kind of, I'd use a lot of botanical
illustration in my previouswork. And I was really
interested in the kind of theways that those illustrations
were drawn were often incorrect,and I really liked that aspect
of it. I don't like the kind ofpurist, you know, almost
completely reproduced drawingsof forms. I like the wonky bits,
(15:00):
the wrong bits. I just find thatmuch more interesting. And also,
you know, it's much more aboutthe human mark. And it doesn't
have to always be perfect. Andyou can't copy nature because it
just can't be done.
Steph (15:11):
No. This is making a lot of sense. And I feel like we do
just have to dive straight intothe Seaweeding project and
exhibition because, yeah, thatsort of beachcombing and
specimens. I'll just let youexplain.
Chris (15:26):
Well, it was, it was a, it was a long...what's the word?
Steph (15:33):
Process? Project?
Chris (15:35):
I wasn't thinking...
Steph (15:35):
Saga?
Chris (15:36):
No, yeah it was a saga. it was all of those. Germina- It
was a long period. It was a longproject. Anyway, simply put. It
started a long time ago when Ifirst met Tony Kanellos, who I
had met at a print symposium atthe National Gallery. And we
kind of started this friendshipand talked about wanting to do
(15:57):
something together within theMuseum of Economic Botany, of
which he was then the director,person in charge. I don't know
what his official title was atthat point. So I had a long
nurturing period. That's what Iwas trying to say before. So as
a long lead in time, and weeventually got a date. And part
of that project was to look atalgae collections within the
(16:21):
herbarium. Specifically about awoman collector who's from Port
Elliot called Jessie Hussey. AndI had already undertaken some
research about, around her andher collections. And she had,
she lived here from the 1860stil about 1890s, died quite
(16:41):
young. And she became deaf whenshe was teenager years I think?
I could be wrong there. Andthere were there were ads in the
local papers -not that therewere that many local papers in
Port Elliot, there was probablyone agricultural journal-
(17:01):
looking for women collectors,because Ferdinand von Mueller
had spent some time in Adelaide.He was a German kind of botanist
scientist. And he went toMelbourne, and set up the
Melbourne Botanic Gardens, andhe was looking for women
collectors. So, Jessie Hussey'sfather put her on to this, but I
think she'd already beencollecting terrestrial and
aquatic plants here for someshort period of time before this
(17:25):
ad was out. So she became acollector. So, I was interested
in her because her, I was onsome weird, like community group
with her great, great nephew.Yeah, so I thought there was
this, and he was a really kindof straight guy who really
didn't like me at all, because Iwas a bit too strange for that
(17:47):
committee. But we developed thisreally interesting relationship
around Jessie Hussey and he'ssince died. But she still has
living relatives here. So I wasreally intrigued that there was
this woman combing the foreshoreand that's kind of what I was
doing in a slightly differentway. So I had already looked at
her collections at the Melbourneherbarium and I had gone to
(18:08):
London. And spent some time atthe Natural History Museum
looking at her terrestrial andalgae plant collections.
Steph (18:15):
That's very cool.
Chris (18:15):
So that's why I really wanted to get into the herbarium
here to look at though, to lookat her specimens. So that was
the big, that was kind of thebeginning part of that project.
And of course, I got interruptedby the thing. And the there were
issues at the herbarium withCOVID and also with the kind of
the mechanisms around thecollection. So I didn't actually
(18:36):
get to look at any of herspecimens, which I was very sad
about, but I had plenty ofplenty of examples of her
collections that I'd viewedbefore, so I continued on with
it. But also part of thatSeaweeding Project was I wanted,
I had already been looking atspongia at the South Australian
(18:58):
Museum. So, those things that Italked about a while ago, a
minute ago, about you know, Ithought they were all sea
aquatic plants that wereactually invertebrates. So I
became really interested ininvertebrates particularly
spongias or porifera. So I hadorganised to go and do some
visits at the museum to look attheir collection there. So I was
(19:22):
wanting to amalgamate those twoinstitutions' collections and
try and blend it
Steph (19:27):
Yeah - there's a terrible sponge pun in there somewhere.
Chris (19:32):
Yeah there's, there's many sponge punches, sponge
sponges, sponge pun. So I wastrying to marry those two
collections together. Because inthe ocean, they exist... They
have many symbioticrelationships where algae and
spongia grow on each other andhave a really nice time. And
also I wanted to, you know, tryand, because science looks at
(19:54):
single species, and I wasinterested in trying to break
that down and combine this kindof, this merging of the species.
As it turns out, as I said,didn't quite get to the
herbarium. But I did get to doquite a bit of research at the
invertebrates with AndreaCrowther, who's head of that
department, who was fantastic infacilitating that. And got to
(20:18):
see incredible spongia.
Steph (20:20):
And so the outcome was in the Museum of Economic Botany,
where that's where some of thosespecimens live or is that...?
Chris (20:28):
The museum, no, the Museum of Economic Botany, we
can't... It has a lot offantastic specimen in it and is
a great, you know, has thisreally incredible collection.
But the, none of those...
Steph (20:41):
They weren't the ones...
Chris (20:42):
The permanent collection stayed as such. But even despite
that I didn't get into theherbarium before the show
opened, there had been changeswithin that department. So Tony
left, he was replaced by someoneelse. And now Lindl Lawton is
the current...
Steph (21:00):
Leader person.
Chris (21:01):
Leader person. Director. Whatever. I think she's got a
bigger title, because she's, herjob is, like most jobs had to
incorporate multiple roles. Sotowards the end of the process,
we were able to get access intothe herbarium and so many
specimens of that Jessie Husseyhad collected were included in
(21:23):
the exhibition, which I wasextremely excited about. Because
that was the whole point of it,you know, it's like art
collections, or so manycollections have so much work
stored in this special secretvault, for obviously, all the
right reasons. But it's greatwhen the public gets to see
those specimens. So I think theyhad to change the specimens
every three to four weeks, justbecause of the...
Steph (21:47):
Is that kind of exposure to the elements?
Chris (21:49):
That's it. That's it. So it was, it was incredible to see
them. And those relatives, youknow, of hers, that live in Port
Elliot, and other placesthroughout South Australia, you
know, were able to see thoseparts of the collection. So to
me, that was super exciting thatthey were on show for everyone.
Steph (22:05):
And then so the work was alongside it?
Chris (22:07):
The work was alongside it. And so the whole process was
so long and drawn out. And so,so tricky, because the
leadership changes madeeverything kind of interesting
as well, because it is anational trust building. So I
had envisaged this kind of majorintervention into the whole
building space.
Steph (22:24):
Ah. Okay.
Chris (22:25):
But it didn't quite pan out that way. So I was kind of
floundering, I would say, as tohow the work was going to
actually be shown. Because thespace is quite, you know, the
exhibition space is quiteprescribed and quite restrictive
in a way. It doesn't have, youknow, there's no... it can't
(22:45):
hold a great deal of weight. SoI had envisaged a different
exhibition to the one thateveryone saw. And in a way,
serendipitously, it turned outbetter than I possibly could
have imagined. So in a way, it'sa big lesson for me, because
you, you know, like you thinkyou need to plan things. And you
know, most institutions wantdrawings and plans and
(23:05):
everything resolved. But it kindof evolved right up to the last
minute. And I think it turnedout, perhaps better than I
expected.
Steph (23:14):
Yeah.
Chris (23:14):
So, the forms kind of invaded the gallery space. And
it was also, because I work parttime in a bookstore. And I read
a lot of dystopian, I read a lotof anything, because I can get a
lot of books to read. But I'mkind of interested in dystopian
literature, I don't think it'scalled that anymore.
(23:37):
Particularly Ballard, who wrotein the 60s, I think it was I
could be wrong. Um, I have tocheck that. About this...
there's like a major solarincident, and London is
underwater. And he describesmany things in that, in that
great novel. And, and I wasparticularly taken with these
(23:58):
descriptions of algae hangingfrom the porticoes, and algae
hanging from the door and takingover these monumental buildings
in London. So that's kind ofwhat I had in mind for the
Museum of Economic Botany.
Steph (24:11):
Taking over...yeah.
Chris (24:12):
Yeah. But I think it worked well. And I created these
giant, I don't know three metre,paper mache forms. I had been
snorkeling at a little reef nearwhere I live, in only in the
last couple of years had foundthis specimen called a sea
tulip. And so they're kind ofbased on that.
Steph (24:36):
Yeah.
Chris (24:36):
And they're like as, again, this simple, wonderful
organism that's a filter feeder.And so I wanted to have these
giant aquatic forms, kind ofovertaking and challenging that
space. And I wanted to cover, Iwanted, because there's lots of
busts of men scientists,
Steph (24:56):
Little faces? Yep.
Chris (24:58):
Big faces. Up on top of big showcases, and I wanted to
again to kind of push that andtry and acknowledge the 'Jessie
Hussey's of the science world.Because they're the unrecognized
female quasi-, not quasi,scientists! You know, that
wasn't available to them to, topursue like academic careers,
(25:19):
but they were vitally importantin acquiring scientific
knowledge. So I wanted to kindof interrupt and challenge those
busts. And so I put these giantgreen, glowing aquatic forms
next to them as kind of a homageto those female scientists,
particularly Jessie Hussey. Andmany, many, many women
throughout Australia collectedfor the big guy, the big gun
(25:43):
scientists, and many of theirspecimens and information was
shared throughout the scienceworld, you know, throughout the
whole of Europe and wherever.
Steph (25:52):
Perhaps not given the kudos.
Chris (25:53):
No, of course not.
Steph (25:54):
Yeah.
Chris (25:55):
And you know, like, I because even though I couldn't
get into the herbarium, I couldget into the library at the
Botanic Gardens. And I justspent a lot of time reading and
researching there, and there areletters between the Von Mueller
and collectors in agarcollectors in Denmark and
collectors throughout. And theytalk quite derogatory, you know,
(26:15):
in a in a very negative fashionabout those women collectors,
and particularly because JessieHussey was deaf. I think they
just presumed that she waswhatever. But you know, towards
the end of their exchanges withher specimens, they kind of
acknowledged that she was thisvery incredible woman.
Steph (26:35):
She was all that.
Chris (26:35):
Yeah,
Steph (26:37):
Well I'm glad they came around.
Chris (26:38):
Well, I'm not sure how far they came around, they're
still blokes.
Unknown (26:41):
[musical interlude]
Steph (26:50):
And we better not forget that there was a moving image
working there as well. It wasn'tjust all paper mache, there was
lots going on and collaboration,so many moving parts I imagine.
Chris (27:01):
Well, I had, there were prints; there were etchings and
digital prints, but because theprocess was so long, I had
initially been given fundingfrom Arts SA, to develop this
project. But because, you know,it was probably over four years,
there was this specific grantcategory within Arts SA, I think
was called the Recovery Fund.And I needed to, you know, make,
(27:26):
make more work and kind of, Iwas kind of challenged to think
about other ways of presentingthe work. And, and really, it
was almost the grant that pushedme to collaborating with other
people. Mainly, I work a lot,you know, on my own in this
studio. But because of thatfunding, I thought I kind of had
(27:47):
done some...one, I'm sayingsome, one moving image piece
before. And I was reallyinterested in that. And I, I
knew a young man who livednearby who was a, who had
studied filmmaking at Flinders,and I just suddenly thought,
this is a great opportunity topush myself and to expand that
(28:08):
one minor moving image thing.And you know, obviously, I take
lots of underwater movies withmy little underwater camera, and
that goes nowhere. So it wasgreat. I just decided that I
would have this collaborativeelement where I would make this
filmic piece. And I wanted touse local people.
Steph (28:27):
Yep.
Chris (28:29):
And also COVID, you know, like it had changed the way I
thought, you know, you know,this was post was, I think it
was slightly, maybe notpost-COVID.
Steph (28:36):
Somewhere in the middle?
Chris (28:37):
Yeah. And so I worked with this young man, Mickey
Mason, to help me film a piece.I worked with Suzi Benger, who
just lives around the corner,who's a designer, and makes
clothing and specificallyswimwear, which the film was
obviously going to be around theocean. So that fitted in really
(29:00):
well. And Honor Freeman hadmoved down to the south coast in
the last couple of years, andthat I swim with her, as well as
a couple of other people. And soI wanted to have this group of
aquatic beings who could work onthis project with me, and
funnily enough, Mickey Mason, Ihave known since he was a young
man. And he used to be like apool attendant, and I would
(29:24):
sometimes go to the pool inwinter to swim laps, and he
would at the end of his shift,swim underwater, and do like
four laps underwater. And I'd go"wow, that Mickey Mason can
really swim underwater". Butactually, that quality was so
important because we filmed thismoving image really in very deep
water out at Horseshoe Bay, andthat lung capacity was
(29:46):
absolutely essential to themovie.
Steph (29:48):
[laughs] amazing.
Chris (29:49):
So I was interested in kind of flipping the women
collecting thing that if youwere a collector, was there a
time in the future when thethings that you were collecting
would become a part of you. Withthese sea forms, these
accretions, potentially becomepart of a human. So it was kind
of trying to explore that idea.And so it was kind of, I say it
(30:13):
was a durational piece, becauseyou know, everyone talks about
durational pieces now, but wefilmed it in winter.
Steph (30:18):
Oh my gosh.
Chris (30:19):
Yeah, in really like deep water. And it was just kind of
crazy, but incredibly wonderful.And I don't even think -that
would be two years ago now- Idon't think the water has ever
been as clear as when we filmedit. Of course I'm gonna say
that, but it was completelyrandom. And it was, it was very
cold. But it was amazing. Andthere was a seal appeared. And
(30:43):
the seal didn't make the cut,but it's in the rough. But it
was this feat to be able to staythere in those freezing
conditions for so long.
Steph (30:57):
Gosh, that's amazing. I feel like, yeah, couldn't do
that twice.
Chris (31:02):
It's really, it's really, no you know what, he was heaps
of fun too, because we had a lotof laughs and because I, I had
the waterproof bag and let thewater in the waterproof bag that
the spare film was in. So it wasvery, it was a very interesting
moment.
Steph (31:15):
Wait, so analogue?
Chris (31:17):
Yeah, yeah, it was a Super Eight, underwater Super
Eight Movie Camera.
Steph (31:20):
Oh my gosh
Chris (31:20):
Yeah, it was really... I didn't want that 'high
definition' thing. It was theprintmaker thing, I wanted this
weird layering. And so the SuperEight gave us the ability to
make these kinds of layers. Andthat's, and that's what, to me,
I found really interesting inthat process of making the
film... film sounds too grand aword... in making the short
(31:43):
moving-image piece... Does thatsound even more wanky?
Steph (31:45):
[laughs]
Chris (31:46):
Was this layering. So and because it was low definition
that kind of looks like a screenprint, it kind of looks like the
pixelation. So I was reallyinterested in playing with that.
And Mickey Mason was the one whodid all the work. And I just did
the you know, 'nyeah'. So it wasa really great collaboration.
And the other person thatcollaborated was another young
(32:07):
man called Giuseppe Faraone, whodoesn't live... that was kind of
my criteria was you've got tolive near here or be a... But
the other criteria was that youhad to be a 'water person' and
he had spent a lot of time at myhouse in the summer time getting
bashed at...
Steph (32:22):
by waves?
Chris (32:23):
By waves. I can't even remember the beach which was
just down there. What's itcalled? Boomer! Boomer beach.
Getting...
Steph (32:33):
bashed at Boomer
Chris (32:33):
bashed at Boomer. So he took some sound recordings down
here...
Steph (32:38):
Oh, cool.
Chris (32:39):
...and incorporated them into the music track that
accompanied the film. movingimage.
Steph (32:44):
Yeah. Was it music-y soundscape? Somewhere in
between?
Chris (32:47):
Yeah soundscape. I would say it's more like a soundscape.
Steph (32:49):
Yeah. Cool.
Chris (32:50):
Yeah. And then the other, the other important
collaboration was a really, itwas a really interesting, highly
stressful process, doing allthis collaborating. And the
other person that I reallywanted to have on board was Cath
Kenneally. She's a really greatSouth Australian writer, who is
also a aquatic person who swimsa lot at Henley Beach, and also,
(33:14):
I think she has a place at BrunyIsland. And I had always loved
her stories about growing up atHenley Beach and her fictional
books. And so I asked her if shewanted to be involved. And she
was really excited because Ithink she'd hit a kind of hiatus
with her writing. I could beslightly exaggerating there. And
she was really keen, and part ofit was that we would all swim
(33:36):
together. And it kind of, it,we'd send these emails that
never really kind of evolved.And I was going, "Oh, maybe
she's not so crazy on the wholeidea". And I'd send her a
message and she say, "Yes, I'mgoing to come" and then she
didn't appear. And then one day,she kind of went, "I'll be there
at nine o'clock". And she came,and we had this really beautiful
swim and talked about our loveof the ocean, and swimming, and
(33:56):
all of that kind of carry on.And then she said, "I had a
stent two days ago", and I went,"Oh my god". So it was this
amazing experience of her havingthis kind of therapeutic,
freezing cold dip.
Steph (34:11):
That'll do it.
Chris (34:12):
And then she wrote this really beautiful piece for the
catalogue, called the GreenRoom; because I didn't want a
catalogue that was kind ofwriting about me, or the works.
I wanted this kind of beautifulpiece of poetry. Which she, she
wrote this incredible piece andshe read it at the Museum of
(34:35):
Economic Botany one day. And itwas, when she read it, it was
very emotive and very beautiful.
Steph (34:41):
and great that it was so tied in with the...
Chris (34:43):
the whole thing.
Steph (34:44):
Yeah.
Chris (34:45):
And the great thing is, is that I think now this is
evolving into a book.
Steph (34:49):
Oh, wow.
Chris (34:50):
Yeah, so that funding really has nourished many
people.
Steph (34:55):
Yeah,
Chris (34:55):
So it's, it's really great thing.
Steph (34:59):
My goodness.
Chris (35:00):
And also then have to acknowledge that Rosina
Possingham designed the...
Steph (35:03):
Oh, yes that looks lovely.
Chris (35:04):
The said booklet.
Steph (35:06):
said catalogue yes.
Chris (35:07):
And also the catalogue or whatever you call it, the
booklet was really important tome and I thought it was a really
an intrinsic part. And I hadendeavored to have a mentorship
through COVID with a printmakerfrom Melbourne called Trent
Walter, who is responsible formaking many incredible artists
(35:29):
books. I think he did the SydneyBiennale, not the last one, the
one before with Stuart Geddes,and produced this great book. So
I was really, even though I onlygot to work with him on two
occasions, because of 'theunmentionable', that kind of
idea of producing this reallykind of beautiful booklet was
(35:50):
quite intrinsic to the project.
Steph (35:51):
Yeah, that reverence was there.
Chris (35:53):
Yeah.
Unknown (36:04):
[musical interlude]
Steph (36:06):
Have you had a favorite response or reaction to your
work? If you've been privy tothem?
Chris (36:13):
Ah, there's a couple, when I was taking over the
studio with the pieces for theMuseum of Economic Botany.
People would come in here, and,and it was predominantly
children. And I really, I reallylove that idea of creating that
(36:33):
kind of sense of awe and wonder.And, you know, I'm hoping that I
create that for adults, but withchildren, it's so magic.
Steph (36:43):
Yeah
Chris (36:43):
Magic? Magic. But, you know, kids would come in here
and they'd go, "Whoa, what'sgoing on in here", and we had
this, these people we don'tknow, really, he just came for
some other reason. And came inhere. And these two young boys
were just so mesmerized by whatwas in here, that we then sat
down and did like a littlepainting session. And same thing
(37:05):
with when the works went intothe Museum of Economic Botany.
They were really concerned aboutthe potential for damage. And I
go "they're paper mache, it'sfine". Because the great thing
about the Museum of EconomicBotany is it has such a diverse
range of visitors, you know,because even when we're
installing people go there, justto waste time, which is not a
(37:28):
derogatory comment about theBotanic Gardens.
Steph (37:30):
no
Chris (37:30):
But people go there, because there was this young guy
who had missed a flight. So hejust thought, I'll go for a walk
in the Botanic Gardens, likejust random reasons that people
just,
Steph (37:40):
end up there
Chris (37:41):
first kiss, root, whatever in the Botanic Gardens,
you know, like many things. Andso you have this random audience
that don't engage with art. Andso the audience that goes in
there is hugely diverse, andlots of school kids. And so
school kids would just screamand carry on and get so excited
(38:01):
and want to touch everything.And the, the museum attendants,
we were really concerned thatthings were going to get
damaged, and I'm going, "itdoesn't matter, let them do it".
Because it's paper mache, it canbe repaired plus, doesn't need
to go anywhere afterwards as atthis minute. And so and then
when I, when I would go inthere, I would see that things
would have moved were missing.And we would just put them back.
(38:24):
And so I'm really excited thatyoung people can have this kind
of crazy engagement with thingsthat they don't really, you
know, that they just respond toon a very simplistic level, but
it inspires this kind ofamazement and awe.
Steph (38:40):
Yeah.
Chris (38:41):
The other good thing is is that Andrea Crowther, the
head of the invertebrates at theat the museum, partner wanted to
buy something for her for abirthday present and I just, I
suggested this print. And it wasa surprise but, serendipitously,
it was based on the sponge thatI'd forgotten that I'd
(39:02):
photographed at the museum, thatwas, that was collected in an
Antarctic Expedition. So thatwas this kind of sweet moment
where I had accidentally givenher something from her
collection and transposed youknow, layered other things on
top of it
Steph (39:17):
Yeah.
Chris (39:18):
And you know, she had this kind of really great
surprise, hopefully, it wasreally great. Anyway. And you
know, and it was an interestingway of paying back her great
support in me looking at thosecollections held in the South
Australian Museum.
Steph (39:35):
Yeah.
Unknown (39:46):
[musical interlude]
Steph (39:53):
And a little birdie told me, you're not resting. you're
just going gung-ho into morethings. Is that right?
Chris (39:59):
Well, Yes, it's interesting because I'm a mature
person and I have been thebusiest that I've probably ever
been. And whether that's byfortune or just harder working.
Both obviously.
Steph (40:15):
Momentum, even.
Chris (40:16):
Momentum. Yes. So, um...
Steph (40:18):
What's coming up?
Chris (40:19):
So what's coming up? You know, we, you talked about does
where I live influence where Iwork. I feel it's really
important to contribute into thelocal community. So I've got a
exhibition curated by a youngman from Victor Harbor, who's
put together a show at Good BankGallery in McLaren Vale.
Steph (40:39):
Oh, fantastic. Yep.
Chris (40:40):
Called... I think it's called South Coast surfing or
South Coast group. I don't evenknow what it's called. And
that's in a couple of weeks. Andthat's, I think, about five of
us... maybe six showing there.
Steph (40:52):
Mostly locally?
Chris (40:53):
Yep. All just south coast.
Steph (40:55):
Yeah. Beautiful.
Chris (40:56):
Victor harbour, Port Elliot people, which is fun. And
I really, I really enjoy doingkind of shows like that, because
it gives me a little bit morefreedom to make mistakes. And,
and be more playful. I mean, Ireally think that's an important
part of my practice is being inthe studio and kind of not being
really directed, just having theability to play. So having those
(41:19):
kinds of exhibitions allows youto play but makes you play
harder, because you have to havean outcome. And I'm not just
going to screw it up and throwit in the bin. And then also at
Coral Street Art Centre. There'sa show being curated there
called Water People and...
Steph (41:37):
Your favourite word!
Chris (41:37):
My favourite word. It's becoming my favourite word.
Well, it's on the zeitgeistright now isn't it. I mean,
everyone's talking aboutimmersion. And the benefits of,
you know, sea therapy. Butanyway, Valerie Taylor is in
this exhibition. So when I gottold Valerie Taylor was in it,
what can I had to say yes,because she's like a water
person icon. And she does thesekind of weird illustrations of
(42:03):
nymphs, like underwater nymphsand stuff.
Steph (42:05):
So cool.
Chris (42:05):
So I want to be in because I want to be supporting
the community, but I want to bein it because I want to see
Valerie Taylor, I just hope sheappears. They're going to be
running one of her movies at theVictor Harbor cinema.
Steph (42:15):
oh that's cool.
Chris (42:16):
And so I'm exhibiting with Valerie Taylor. And then in
2024, a project I'm working onwith Flinders Art Museum is in
combination with the humanitiesdepartment there, and
dovetailing in with some historyconference and it's around sea
grasses, and that's in 2024. Sothat's more than enough for me
(42:39):
to contend with.
Steph (42:40):
I daresay
Chris (42:41):
Yeah.
Steph (42:41):
Still enough excuses to get into the water.
Chris (42:44):
No, no, that is integral in most days. Most days. There
is a swim.
Steph (42:51):
There's a dip.
Chris (42:51):
Yeah, there's a dip.
Steph (42:52):
And are you... more of a float or hard swim?
Chris (42:55):
Oh no swim. It's earnest. Yeah, I have swum with two
friends for a very long time.And as I mentioned, Honor
Freeman has joined us in thelast few years, and she's
younger than the rest of us. Soshe keeps us on our toes. But
it's a, it's a, it's an earnestswim. It varies depending on the
conditions. But it's a it's avery deep dive.
Steph (43:16):
-ah!-
Chris (43:16):
and it's good swimming.
Steph (43:18):
There it is.
Chris (43:18):
Yeah.
Steph (43:19):
I don't think we can top that. And we can follow along on
your Instagram.
Chris (43:22):
That's it. Yeah.
Steph (43:24):
Yep. Beautiful. All right. We'll leave it there.
Thank you so much. That was,yep, 'deep dive' was the word.
Chris (43:30):
Thanks.
Unknown (43:31):
[music]
[intro music]
Steph (00:17):
Hello and welcome to the SALA Podcast. Today I'm in the
lovely seaside town of PortElliot in South Australia, which
is kind of the heel of the bootif you think of the Fleurieu
Peninsula as a boot, andKangaroo Island as a football.
It's a lovely balmy day, youmight be able to hear the
corellas screeching in thebackground, promise they're
(00:39):
okay, that's just the noise thatthey make. While I'm enjoying
the the flora and fauna, I wouldlike to acknowledge the
Traditional Owners of theselands and waters, the Ramindjeri
and Ngarrindjeri people; and anyother nations with a connection
to this area, and acknowledgethe Elders past, present, and
future.
I'm in -it's not little by anystretch- I'm in a studio, which
(01:03):
is covered wall-to-wall, evenfrom the ceiling with artworks.
I am here with the lovely Chrisde Rosa. Hello.
Chris (01:11):
Hi.
Steph (01:12):
Thank you for welcoming me in here. I feel like I'm
being privy to way too much. Somuch happening in here. It's
quite...
Chris (01:21):
it's busy.
Steph (01:21):
It is busy, but in a nice way. And it's it's actually
doing wonders for the acousticsfor this recording. So thank you
twice.
Chris (01:28):
It was managed that way.
Steph (01:29):
Oh yeah - so thoughtful. Before we take a deep dive, can
you just give a couple ofsentences or a bit of a brief of
how would you describe yourpractice to someone that hasn't
encountered it?
Chris (01:43):
A 'deep dive' is a good intro into it because I kind of
deep dive most days into theocean. And that kind of feeds
this practice
Steph (01:53):
That was appropriate to start then wasn't it?
Chris (01:55):
It was, but I think you've used it before. I think
I've heard it once or twicebefore.
Steph (01:58):
Oh, guilty as charged.
Chris (01:58):
But this time, it's super appropriate. I make a kind of,
it's kind of a multidisciplinarypractice. That's kind of you
know, a go-to-word
Steph (02:10):
so you're not tied down
Chris (02:11):
Yeah, not to tie anything down. But I am kind of at the
core of it is is a printmakingpractice. And even though I
don't feel that I'm atraditional -I don't know if
that's quite the word- but atraditional printmaker. I really
rely on the process ofprintmaking to inform my
(02:32):
practice. So that's what Iinitially studied. And it's kind
of at the core of everythingthat I do; print making - the
expanded field.
Steph (02:45):
Yeah. Love it.
Chris (02:50):
But most recently, kind of major installations
sculpture, video, and music.There you go. I think I've hit
them all. Music not quite. Butyou know, in collaboration, but
I can just about chuck it all inright.
Steph (03:03):
Many hats. Yeah,
Chris (03:04):
No, not really. Just one large sunhat.
Steph (03:08):
Love it, very appropriate out here. Well, that's touching
on what my next question wasgoing to be, which was, how did
you find your way to being anartist? So was there formal
training in there or?
Chris (03:19):
There's formal training there, but serendipitously
because at school, I wanted tobe an art teacher. I liked art
and biology, and I wasabsolutely, I am allowed to
swear? Fucking hopeless atschool. Easily distracted, I
think was a common description.
Steph (03:35):
Oh, yes.
Chris (03:36):
But I thought I'd be an art teacher. And I didn't. You
know, I just mucked around waytoo much and was hopeless. And
my dad's an Italian migrant,very low education. And my mom
was a nurse aide, and they werelike, like, being an artist was
not a discussion in our family.
Steph (03:55):
Not on the table?
Chris (03:56):
It wasn't it wasn't. It wasn't. No, it was you get a job
and you save up and you buy ahouse. So I became a nurse. And
I nursed for... I can't rememberthe exact amount of years but
quite a long time, and I wasquite ambitious and driven. And
part of my nursing work. I wentto Flinders Uni, I don't think
(04:18):
it was... it wasn't calledFlinders Uni.
Steph (04:21):
what would become Flinders Uni?
Chris (04:22):
It was an annex. I think, forget what...Sturt College!
That was it. So I did a postkind of grad studies in nursing.
And part of that I did anelective in printmaking, of
which my line manager washorrified that I was getting
time off work to go and studyprintmaking. But I suddenly I
had been slowly realizing thatnursing wasn't for me, that I
(04:44):
was kind of the round square peggoing in the wrong hole. So,
printmaking consumed me, and Iwould be there printing really
late at night breathing in waytoo many turps fumes, but the
lecturer was Nigel MurrayHarvey, and he really encouraged
me to pursue printmaking, whichis kind of weird, because I was
kind of like an aspiring, risingup the nursing hierarchy kind of
(05:08):
thing. So I decided, yeah, thisis right. And I left nursing and
I applied to go to StanleyStreet School of Arts. And it
was at the cusp where there wasall this talk where higher
education was about tobecome...you had to pay, so it
was about, it was about tochange. So I thought, oh my I've
(05:30):
got to get in before, before Ihave to pay.
Steph (05:33):
That's motivating.
Chris (05:33):
That was motivating. And also I took some like, I really
did use that printmakingdepartment at, at Flinders to
the max and I got some worksframed by Anima Gallery. And I
remember the guy Robert now Ican't remember his last name, he
kind of he kind of said the samething. Oh, well, you know, you
should pursue this. So it waskind of those early encouraging
(05:56):
words that pushed me. Mind you,I kind of feel that I'd been
always really interested inmaking things. I used to like
draw and make cards and do kindof weird home crafty things. But
I was always filling my room abit like the studio with hyper
colored images, you know,Toulouse-Lautrec incredible
(06:18):
lithographs. And I was obsessedwith the photos. So nothing in a
way has kind of changed becauseI'm still really interested and
fascinated with that use ofcolour and, and the way colour
can be explored and contrasted.So yeah. So then I went to art
school.
Steph (06:37):
Love it. What a journey.
Chris (06:39):
Was that the question? Was that the full question?
Steph (06:41):
Yeah. yeah. I'm just soaking it in.
Chris (06:42):
Okay. I could elaborate more, though, on what happened?
Steph (06:47):
If you want to!
Chris (06:48):
Well, yeah. Because I because part of my year 12 art
project was to... I went andinterviewed a jeweller at the
JamFactory, and that was reallyexciting for me as well. So I
kind of had this little nigglything at the back of my brain
about being a jeweller, so Ithought when I went to North
Adelaide, that was my mainfocus, jewellery-making, and I
did printmaking on the side.Well, jewellery-making obviously
didn't work out, because I justlost a lot of hair by pulling it
(07:10):
out with frustration. And I kindof, in a way, I went to a
different form of metalworkbecause it was zinc etching
plates. And so I kind of becameand harking back to that screen
printing session, late nightsessions at Flinders. So I kind
of majored in printmaking, butthe art school was quite
(07:31):
skill-based, you know, and itwas a lot about acquiring those
printmaking skills and notacquiring the jewellery skills.
Steph (07:40):
I love it.
Chris (07:41):
Oh but I was also going to say now I'm thinking more
that I was obviously a matureaged student. So by the time I
went to art school, I alreadyhad bought the house that my
parents decided I needed to buyas being a good Italian girl. I
satisfied them and then it waskind of now it's time to you
know, fulfill my...yeah.
Steph (08:00):
They couldn't hold it over you then.
Chris (08:01):
No, that's it.
Steph (08:02):
Do it all. You can have it all!
Chris (08:04):
Yeah, well. Yeah, I don't know if you can.
Steph (08:07):
Almost. no jewellery.
I don't know how to phrase thisquestion. But was there a point
of going from 2d to 3d that'sany significant? Or is that not
really? Is it just...can youjust tell me more about the
materials? Because I don't knowif we've scratched? Yeah,
there's just seems like there'sa lot.
Chris (08:26):
Well, obviously, printmaking involves paper and
paper is the thing I love.Because paper, you know, is just
so varied it can you know, fromhigh end incredibly handmade
traditional Italian papers withhuge weight and, and a
malleability to, you know, so Iuse incredible papers,
handcrafted papers like that,right down to newspaper and
(08:49):
tissue paper. So I just lovethat the qualities of paper that
it's so strong, flexible,opaque, transparent. You know,
it can be made into sculpturalforms. I spent a lot of time
perforating paper. So paper islike is, is the most important
(09:10):
material to me, but in morerecent times, and perhaps since
meeting my husband, who's apotter, I don't know if I should
claim that he's had that muchinfluence. I... No, he has.
Steph (09:25):
How much credit do you give him?
Chris (09:26):
You know, that's how much credit I give, yeah. But because
he's using three dimensionalobjects, making three
dimensional objects all thetime, I did kind of want to cash
in on that level of expertiseand have, have played with some
earthenware and developed threedimensional things. Starting
(09:47):
with, with Paperclay andearthenware. And since then I
kind of dally quite often too. Iwanted to get away from that
idea of just print, print onpaper. And wanted to add three
dimensional, two dimensionalforms to the paper to kind of
make the paper, you know, havethat sculptural element. And
(10:09):
then as I started to almost hintat before the 3d stuff, maybe
that happened...the paper machekind of stuff maybe happened
because of COVID. Becausebecause you know, you, I had a
lot of time in the studio and Ilistened to a couple of the
other podcasts and many peoplehave spoken about, you know, the
advantages of COVID. Becauseyou, you spent heaps more time
(10:33):
in the studio. So I wanted touse all the shit that's in this
room, which is a really hugeroom.
Steph (10:38):
There is some in here, yeah.
Chris (10:39):
There's a lot of stuff. And I wanted to just use what I
had.
Steph (10:42):
Yeah.
Chris (10:43):
So the material- that kind of changed my approach to
materials. And I really wantedto use the, you know, millions
of rotten prints that have gonewrong. And I just wanted to use
easily accessible stuff. So Istarted to make small paper
mache objects. I had used PUfoam quite a lot in the past,
(11:04):
but I kind of was beating myselfbecause it's, you know, a pretty
horrible plastic thing. So Iwanted to go from the PU foam to
using paper mache. So, andanother, that's another reason
for loving paper, paper becausethe paper mache is so strong and
so malleable. And you know, youcan do almost whatever you like
(11:28):
with it. So that's how I kind ofstarted making small paper mache
forms, which have evolved intokind of giant paper mache forms.
Steph (11:36):
Yeah, it's hard to even comprehend. You know, you think
of paper mache, I think a lot ofpeople think of a certain scale.
But yeah, we're beyond that.
Chris (11:43):
Oh, no. The big ones aren't even in here. The big
ones are in the... I cleaned outthe shed, to make a carport. And
now I've had to fill it withgiant paper mache forms that
maybe should just be burned. I'mnot sure. I'm not sure.
Steph (11:55):
You can't say that on this podcast.
Chris (11:57):
No, you can say that. What do you do with all the
stuff you make?
Steph (11:59):
Look it's a...
Chris (12:00):
It's a question.
Steph (12:00):
it's part of the whole practice isn't it, what do you
do for storage?
Chris (12:03):
It is. What do you do with all that stuff? Yeah.
Unknown (12:05):
[musical interlude]
Steph (12:18):
And maybe, I don't know that nice sustainability, might
tie into this next question thatI have about the themes in your
work. And whether you find thateverything that you make comes
back to some core recurringthemes, or if you find that you
have a permission to sort of goin different directions with
(12:39):
different projects.
It's both I mean, I really Ithink you have one idea. And it
just has little offshoots andbranches and you know, pathways
that travel slightlydifferently. But since moving to
the south coast, maybe over 20years ago, my practice really
shifted because I had come froma house that I bought that with
(13:04):
had like a botanic garden in it,and that was, that was what kind
of informed my practice. Andthen when I came to this place,
it was a denuded gravellandscape. So I..., the
shoreline became my food. So, Iwas really interested in the
(13:25):
things that I would find washedup on the beach. And they were
kind of brown discarded thingsthat most people wanted cleared
off the beach. You know, theywere kind of ugly and interfered
in the picnic hamper kind ofnotions.
You mean like natural things?Or...
Chris (13:40):
I mean, natural things.
Steph (13:41):
Yeah ok.
Chris (13:42):
It's funny when I think back I don't think I remember so
many unnatural things. Butthey're obviously there's a
shit-tonne now. So yeah, so themove did change what I was
looking at. So I becameinterested in the sea forms, and
I wanted to know more aboutthem. I thought they were flora
and I thought, oh, that thataligns with my practice. Like my
(14:03):
city practice investigating kindof flora. And I thought, Oh,
this is all you know, this isall sea flora. But as I delved
deeper, I realized that I wasactually looking at animals,
simple, simple animals. Simple,simple. I don't like to call
them simple organisms, becauseit sounds derogatory,
Steph (14:21):
[laughs]
Chris (14:21):
but simple, and economical, and smart organisms.
So I kind of went on a deep diveinto the kinds of things that I
was uncovering on the beat onthe shoreline.
Steph (14:32):
Yeah, that's such an interesting shift. And yet the
constants were still there aswell.
Chris (14:38):
And I had looked at kind of, I'd use a lot of botanical
illustration in my previouswork. And I was really
interested in the kind of theways that those illustrations
were drawn were often incorrect,and I really liked that aspect
of it. I don't like the kind ofpurist, you know, almost
completely reproduced drawingsof forms. I like the wonky bits,
(15:00):
the wrong bits. I just find thatmuch more interesting. And also,
you know, it's much more aboutthe human mark. And it doesn't
have to always be perfect. Andyou can't copy nature because it
just can't be done.
Steph (15:11):
No. This is making a lot of sense. And I feel like we do
just have to dive straight intothe Seaweeding project and
exhibition because, yeah, thatsort of beachcombing and
specimens. I'll just let youexplain.
Chris (15:26):
Well, it was, it was a, it was a long...what's the word?
Steph (15:33):
Process? Project?
Chris (15:35):
I wasn't thinking...
Steph (15:35):
Saga?
Chris (15:36):
No, yeah it was a saga. it was all of those. Germina- It
was a long period. It was a longproject. Anyway, simply put. It
started a long time ago when Ifirst met Tony Kanellos, who I
had met at a print symposium atthe National Gallery. And we
kind of started this friendshipand talked about wanting to do
(15:57):
something together within theMuseum of Economic Botany, of
which he was then the director,person in charge. I don't know
what his official title was atthat point. So I had a long
nurturing period. That's what Iwas trying to say before. So as
a long lead in time, and weeventually got a date. And part
of that project was to look atalgae collections within the
(16:21):
herbarium. Specifically about awoman collector who's from Port
Elliot called Jessie Hussey. AndI had already undertaken some
research about, around her andher collections. And she had,
she lived here from the 1860stil about 1890s, died quite
(16:41):
young. And she became deaf whenshe was teenager years I think?
I could be wrong there. Andthere were there were ads in the
local papers -not that therewere that many local papers in
Port Elliot, there was probablyone agricultural journal-
(17:01):
looking for women collectors,because Ferdinand von Mueller
had spent some time in Adelaide.He was a German kind of botanist
scientist. And he went toMelbourne, and set up the
Melbourne Botanic Gardens, andhe was looking for women
collectors. So, Jessie Hussey'sfather put her on to this, but I
think she'd already beencollecting terrestrial and
aquatic plants here for someshort period of time before this
(17:25):
ad was out. So she became acollector. So, I was interested
in her because her, I was onsome weird, like community group
with her great, great nephew.Yeah, so I thought there was
this, and he was a really kindof straight guy who really
didn't like me at all, because Iwas a bit too strange for that
(17:47):
committee. But we developed thisreally interesting relationship
around Jessie Hussey and he'ssince died. But she still has
living relatives here. So I wasreally intrigued that there was
this woman combing the foreshoreand that's kind of what I was
doing in a slightly differentway. So I had already looked at
her collections at the Melbourneherbarium and I had gone to
(18:08):
London. And spent some time atthe Natural History Museum
looking at her terrestrial andalgae plant collections.
Steph (18:15):
That's very cool.
Chris (18:15):
So that's why I really wanted to get into the herbarium
here to look at though, to lookat her specimens. So that was
the big, that was kind of thebeginning part of that project.
And of course, I got interruptedby the thing. And the there were
issues at the herbarium withCOVID and also with the kind of
the mechanisms around thecollection. So I didn't actually
(18:36):
get to look at any of herspecimens, which I was very sad
about, but I had plenty ofplenty of examples of her
collections that I'd viewedbefore, so I continued on with
it. But also part of thatSeaweeding Project was I wanted,
I had already been looking atspongia at the South Australian
(18:58):
Museum. So, those things that Italked about a while ago, a
minute ago, about you know, Ithought they were all sea
aquatic plants that wereactually invertebrates. So I
became really interested ininvertebrates particularly
spongias or porifera. So I hadorganised to go and do some
visits at the museum to look attheir collection there. So I was
(19:22):
wanting to amalgamate those twoinstitutions' collections and
try and blend it
Steph (19:27):
Yeah - there's a terrible sponge pun in there somewhere.
Chris (19:32):
Yeah there's, there's many sponge punches, sponge
sponges, sponge pun. So I wastrying to marry those two
collections together. Because inthe ocean, they exist... They
have many symbioticrelationships where algae and
spongia grow on each other andhave a really nice time. And
also I wanted to, you know, tryand, because science looks at
(19:54):
single species, and I wasinterested in trying to break
that down and combine this kindof, this merging of the species.
As it turns out, as I said,didn't quite get to the
herbarium. But I did get to doquite a bit of research at the
invertebrates with AndreaCrowther, who's head of that
department, who was fantastic infacilitating that. And got to
(20:18):
see incredible spongia.
Steph (20:20):
And so the outcome was in the Museum of Economic Botany,
where that's where some of thosespecimens live or is that...?
Chris (20:28):
The museum, no, the Museum of Economic Botany, we
can't... It has a lot offantastic specimen in it and is
a great, you know, has thisreally incredible collection.
But the, none of those...
Steph (20:41):
They weren't the ones...
Chris (20:42):
The permanent collection stayed as such. But even despite
that I didn't get into theherbarium before the show
opened, there had been changeswithin that department. So Tony
left, he was replaced by someoneelse. And now Lindl Lawton is
the current...
Steph (21:00):
Leader person.
Chris (21:01):
Leader person. Director. Whatever. I think she's got a
bigger title, because she's, herjob is, like most jobs had to
incorporate multiple roles. Sotowards the end of the process,
we were able to get access intothe herbarium and so many
specimens of that Jessie Husseyhad collected were included in
(21:23):
the exhibition, which I wasextremely excited about. Because
that was the whole point of it,you know, it's like art
collections, or so manycollections have so much work
stored in this special secretvault, for obviously, all the
right reasons. But it's greatwhen the public gets to see
those specimens. So I think theyhad to change the specimens
every three to four weeks, justbecause of the...
Steph (21:47):
Is that kind of exposure to the elements?
Chris (21:49):
That's it. That's it. So it was, it was incredible to see
them. And those relatives, youknow, of hers, that live in Port
Elliot, and other placesthroughout South Australia, you
know, were able to see thoseparts of the collection. So to
me, that was super exciting thatthey were on show for everyone.
Steph (22:05):
And then so the work was alongside it?
Chris (22:07):
The work was alongside it. And so the whole process was
so long and drawn out. And so,so tricky, because the
leadership changes madeeverything kind of interesting
as well, because it is anational trust building. So I
had envisaged this kind of majorintervention into the whole
building space.
Steph (22:24):
Ah. Okay.
Chris (22:25):
But it didn't quite pan out that way. So I was kind of
floundering, I would say, as tohow the work was going to
actually be shown. Because thespace is quite, you know, the
exhibition space is quiteprescribed and quite restrictive
in a way. It doesn't have, youknow, there's no... it can't
(22:45):
hold a great deal of weight. SoI had envisaged a different
exhibition to the one thateveryone saw. And in a way,
serendipitously, it turned outbetter than I possibly could
have imagined. So in a way, it'sa big lesson for me, because
you, you know, like you thinkyou need to plan things. And you
know, most institutions wantdrawings and plans and
(23:05):
everything resolved. But it kindof evolved right up to the last
minute. And I think it turnedout, perhaps better than I
expected.
Steph (23:14):
Yeah.
Chris (23:14):
So, the forms kind of invaded the gallery space. And
it was also, because I work parttime in a bookstore. And I read
a lot of dystopian, I read a lotof anything, because I can get a
lot of books to read. But I'mkind of interested in dystopian
literature, I don't think it'scalled that anymore.
(23:37):
Particularly Ballard, who wrotein the 60s, I think it was I
could be wrong. Um, I have tocheck that. About this...
there's like a major solarincident, and London is
underwater. And he describesmany things in that, in that
great novel. And, and I wasparticularly taken with these
(23:58):
descriptions of algae hangingfrom the porticoes, and algae
hanging from the door and takingover these monumental buildings
in London. So that's kind ofwhat I had in mind for the
Museum of Economic Botany.
Steph (24:11):
Taking over...yeah.
Chris (24:12):
Yeah. But I think it worked well. And I created these
giant, I don't know three metre,paper mache forms. I had been
snorkeling at a little reef nearwhere I live, in only in the
last couple of years had foundthis specimen called a sea
tulip. And so they're kind ofbased on that.
Steph (24:36):
Yeah.
Chris (24:36):
And they're like as, again, this simple, wonderful
organism that's a filter feeder.And so I wanted to have these
giant aquatic forms, kind ofovertaking and challenging that
space. And I wanted to cover, Iwanted, because there's lots of
busts of men scientists,
Steph (24:56):
Little faces? Yep.
Chris (24:58):
Big faces. Up on top of big showcases, and I wanted to
again to kind of push that andtry and acknowledge the 'Jessie
Hussey's of the science world.Because they're the unrecognized
female quasi-, not quasi,scientists! You know, that
wasn't available to them to, topursue like academic careers,
(25:19):
but they were vitally importantin acquiring scientific
knowledge. So I wanted to kindof interrupt and challenge those
busts. And so I put these giantgreen, glowing aquatic forms
next to them as kind of a homageto those female scientists,
particularly Jessie Hussey. Andmany, many, many women
throughout Australia collectedfor the big guy, the big gun
(25:43):
scientists, and many of theirspecimens and information was
shared throughout the scienceworld, you know, throughout the
whole of Europe and wherever.
Steph (25:52):
Perhaps not given the kudos.
Chris (25:53):
No, of course not.
Steph (25:54):
Yeah.
Chris (25:55):
And you know, like, I because even though I couldn't
get into the herbarium, I couldget into the library at the
Botanic Gardens. And I justspent a lot of time reading and
researching there, and there areletters between the Von Mueller
and collectors in agarcollectors in Denmark and
collectors throughout. And theytalk quite derogatory, you know,
(26:15):
in a in a very negative fashionabout those women collectors,
and particularly because JessieHussey was deaf. I think they
just presumed that she waswhatever. But you know, towards
the end of their exchanges withher specimens, they kind of
acknowledged that she was thisvery incredible woman.
Steph (26:35):
She was all that.
Chris (26:35):
Yeah,
Steph (26:37):
Well I'm glad they came around.
Chris (26:38):
Well, I'm not sure how far they came around, they're
still blokes.
Unknown (26:41):
[musical interlude]
Steph (26:50):
And we better not forget that there was a moving image
working there as well. It wasn'tjust all paper mache, there was
lots going on and collaboration,so many moving parts I imagine.
Chris (27:01):
Well, I had, there were prints; there were etchings and
digital prints, but because theprocess was so long, I had
initially been given fundingfrom Arts SA, to develop this
project. But because, you know,it was probably over four years,
there was this specific grantcategory within Arts SA, I think
was called the Recovery Fund.And I needed to, you know, make,
(27:26):
make more work and kind of, Iwas kind of challenged to think
about other ways of presentingthe work. And, and really, it
was almost the grant that pushedme to collaborating with other
people. Mainly, I work a lot,you know, on my own in this
studio. But because of thatfunding, I thought I kind of had
(27:47):
done some...one, I'm sayingsome, one moving image piece
before. And I was reallyinterested in that. And I, I
knew a young man who livednearby who was a, who had
studied filmmaking at Flinders,and I just suddenly thought,
this is a great opportunity topush myself and to expand that
(28:08):
one minor moving image thing.And you know, obviously, I take
lots of underwater movies withmy little underwater camera, and
that goes nowhere. So it wasgreat. I just decided that I
would have this collaborativeelement where I would make this
filmic piece. And I wanted touse local people.
Steph (28:27):
Yep.
Chris (28:29):
And also COVID, you know, like it had changed the way I
thought, you know, you know,this was post was, I think it
was slightly, maybe notpost-COVID.
Steph (28:36):
Somewhere in the middle?
Chris (28:37):
Yeah. And so I worked with this young man, Mickey
Mason, to help me film a piece.I worked with Suzi Benger, who
just lives around the corner,who's a designer, and makes
clothing and specificallyswimwear, which the film was
obviously going to be around theocean. So that fitted in really
(29:00):
well. And Honor Freeman hadmoved down to the south coast in
the last couple of years, andthat I swim with her, as well as
a couple of other people. And soI wanted to have this group of
aquatic beings who could work onthis project with me, and
funnily enough, Mickey Mason, Ihave known since he was a young
man. And he used to be like apool attendant, and I would
(29:24):
sometimes go to the pool inwinter to swim laps, and he
would at the end of his shift,swim underwater, and do like
four laps underwater. And I'd go"wow, that Mickey Mason can
really swim underwater". Butactually, that quality was so
important because we filmed thismoving image really in very deep
water out at Horseshoe Bay, andthat lung capacity was
(29:46):
absolutely essential to themovie.
Steph (29:48):
[laughs] amazing.
Chris (29:49):
So I was interested in kind of flipping the women
collecting thing that if youwere a collector, was there a
time in the future when thethings that you were collecting
would become a part of you. Withthese sea forms, these
accretions, potentially becomepart of a human. So it was kind
of trying to explore that idea.And so it was kind of, I say it
(30:13):
was a durational piece, becauseyou know, everyone talks about
durational pieces now, but wefilmed it in winter.
Steph (30:18):
Oh my gosh.
Chris (30:19):
Yeah, in really like deep water. And it was just kind of
crazy, but incredibly wonderful.And I don't even think -that
would be two years ago now- Idon't think the water has ever
been as clear as when we filmedit. Of course I'm gonna say
that, but it was completelyrandom. And it was, it was very
cold. But it was amazing. Andthere was a seal appeared. And
(30:43):
the seal didn't make the cut,but it's in the rough. But it
was this feat to be able to staythere in those freezing
conditions for so long.
Steph (30:57):
Gosh, that's amazing. I feel like, yeah, couldn't do
that twice.
Chris (31:02):
It's really, it's really, no you know what, he was heaps
of fun too, because we had a lotof laughs and because I, I had
the waterproof bag and let thewater in the waterproof bag that
the spare film was in. So it wasvery, it was a very interesting
moment.
Steph (31:15):
Wait, so analogue?
Chris (31:17):
Yeah, yeah, it was a Super Eight, underwater Super
Eight Movie Camera.
Steph (31:20):
Oh my gosh
Chris (31:20):
Yeah, it was really... I didn't want that 'high
definition' thing. It was theprintmaker thing, I wanted this
weird layering. And so the SuperEight gave us the ability to
make these kinds of layers. Andthat's, and that's what, to me,
I found really interesting inthat process of making the
film... film sounds too grand aword... in making the short
(31:43):
moving-image piece... Does thatsound even more wanky?
Steph (31:45):
[laughs]
Chris (31:46):
Was this layering. So and because it was low definition
that kind of looks like a screenprint, it kind of looks like the
pixelation. So I was reallyinterested in playing with that.
And Mickey Mason was the one whodid all the work. And I just did
the you know, 'nyeah'. So it wasa really great collaboration.
And the other person thatcollaborated was another young
(32:07):
man called Giuseppe Faraone, whodoesn't live... that was kind of
my criteria was you've got tolive near here or be a... But
the other criteria was that youhad to be a 'water person' and
he had spent a lot of time at myhouse in the summer time getting
bashed at...
Steph (32:22):
by waves?
Chris (32:23):
By waves. I can't even remember the beach which was
just down there. What's itcalled? Boomer! Boomer beach.
Getting...
Steph (32:33):
bashed at Boomer
Chris (32:33):
bashed at Boomer. So he took some sound recordings down
here...
Steph (32:38):
Oh, cool.
Chris (32:39):
...and incorporated them into the music track that
accompanied the film. movingimage.
Steph (32:44):
Yeah. Was it music-y soundscape? Somewhere in
between?
Chris (32:47):
Yeah soundscape. I would say it's more like a soundscape.
Steph (32:49):
Yeah. Cool.
Chris (32:50):
Yeah. And then the other, the other important
collaboration was a really, itwas a really interesting, highly
stressful process, doing allthis collaborating. And the
other person that I reallywanted to have on board was Cath
Kenneally. She's a really greatSouth Australian writer, who is
also a aquatic person who swimsa lot at Henley Beach, and also,
(33:14):
I think she has a place at BrunyIsland. And I had always loved
her stories about growing up atHenley Beach and her fictional
books. And so I asked her if shewanted to be involved. And she
was really excited because Ithink she'd hit a kind of hiatus
with her writing. I could beslightly exaggerating there. And
she was really keen, and part ofit was that we would all swim
(33:36):
together. And it kind of, it,we'd send these emails that
never really kind of evolved.And I was going, "Oh, maybe
she's not so crazy on the wholeidea". And I'd send her a
message and she say, "Yes, I'mgoing to come" and then she
didn't appear. And then one day,she kind of went, "I'll be there
at nine o'clock". And she came,and we had this really beautiful
swim and talked about our loveof the ocean, and swimming, and
(33:56):
all of that kind of carry on.And then she said, "I had a
stent two days ago", and I went,"Oh my god". So it was this
amazing experience of her havingthis kind of therapeutic,
freezing cold dip.
Steph (34:11):
That'll do it.
Chris (34:12):
And then she wrote this really beautiful piece for the
catalogue, called the GreenRoom; because I didn't want a
catalogue that was kind ofwriting about me, or the works.
I wanted this kind of beautifulpiece of poetry. Which she, she
wrote this incredible piece andshe read it at the Museum of
(34:35):
Economic Botany one day. And itwas, when she read it, it was
very emotive and very beautiful.
Steph (34:41):
and great that it was so tied in with the...
Chris (34:43):
the whole thing.
Steph (34:44):
Yeah.
Chris (34:45):
And the great thing is, is that I think now this is
evolving into a book.
Steph (34:49):
Oh, wow.
Chris (34:50):
Yeah, so that funding really has nourished many
people.
Steph (34:55):
Yeah,
Chris (34:55):
So it's, it's really great thing.
Steph (34:59):
My goodness.
Chris (35:00):
And also then have to acknowledge that Rosina
Possingham designed the...
Steph (35:03):
Oh, yes that looks lovely.
Chris (35:04):
The said booklet.
Steph (35:06):
said catalogue yes.
Chris (35:07):
And also the catalogue or whatever you call it, the
booklet was really important tome and I thought it was a really
an intrinsic part. And I hadendeavored to have a mentorship
through COVID with a printmakerfrom Melbourne called Trent
Walter, who is responsible formaking many incredible artists
(35:29):
books. I think he did the SydneyBiennale, not the last one, the
one before with Stuart Geddes,and produced this great book. So
I was really, even though I onlygot to work with him on two
occasions, because of 'theunmentionable', that kind of
idea of producing this reallykind of beautiful booklet was
(35:50):
quite intrinsic to the project.
Steph (35:51):
Yeah, that reverence was there.
Chris (35:53):
Yeah.
Unknown (36:04):
[musical interlude]
Steph (36:06):
Have you had a favorite response or reaction to your
work? If you've been privy tothem?
Chris (36:13):
Ah, there's a couple, when I was taking over the
studio with the pieces for theMuseum of Economic Botany.
People would come in here, and,and it was predominantly
children. And I really, I reallylove that idea of creating that
(36:33):
kind of sense of awe and wonder.And, you know, I'm hoping that I
create that for adults, but withchildren, it's so magic.
Steph (36:43):
Yeah
Chris (36:43):
Magic? Magic. But, you know, kids would come in here
and they'd go, "Whoa, what'sgoing on in here", and we had
this, these people we don'tknow, really, he just came for
some other reason. And came inhere. And these two young boys
were just so mesmerized by whatwas in here, that we then sat
down and did like a littlepainting session. And same thing
(37:05):
with when the works went intothe Museum of Economic Botany.
They were really concerned aboutthe potential for damage. And I
go "they're paper mache, it'sfine". Because the great thing
about the Museum of EconomicBotany is it has such a diverse
range of visitors, you know,because even when we're
installing people go there, justto waste time, which is not a
(37:28):
derogatory comment about theBotanic Gardens.
Steph (37:30):
no
Chris (37:30):
But people go there, because there was this young guy
who had missed a flight. So hejust thought, I'll go for a walk
in the Botanic Gardens, likejust random reasons that people
just,
Steph (37:40):
end up there
Chris (37:41):
first kiss, root, whatever in the Botanic Gardens,
you know, like many things. Andso you have this random audience
that don't engage with art. Andso the audience that goes in
there is hugely diverse, andlots of school kids. And so
school kids would just screamand carry on and get so excited
(38:01):
and want to touch everything.And the, the museum attendants,
we were really concerned thatthings were going to get
damaged, and I'm going, "itdoesn't matter, let them do it".
Because it's paper mache, it canbe repaired plus, doesn't need
to go anywhere afterwards as atthis minute. And so and then
when I, when I would go inthere, I would see that things
would have moved were missing.And we would just put them back.
(38:24):
And so I'm really excited thatyoung people can have this kind
of crazy engagement with thingsthat they don't really, you
know, that they just respond toon a very simplistic level, but
it inspires this kind ofamazement and awe.
Steph (38:40):
Yeah.
Chris (38:41):
The other good thing is is that Andrea Crowther, the
head of the invertebrates at theat the museum, partner wanted to
buy something for her for abirthday present and I just, I
suggested this print. And it wasa surprise but, serendipitously,
it was based on the sponge thatI'd forgotten that I'd
(39:02):
photographed at the museum, thatwas, that was collected in an
Antarctic Expedition. So thatwas this kind of sweet moment
where I had accidentally givenher something from her
collection and transposed youknow, layered other things on
top of it
Steph (39:17):
Yeah.
Chris (39:18):
And you know, she had this kind of really great
surprise, hopefully, it wasreally great. Anyway. And you
know, and it was an interestingway of paying back her great
support in me looking at thosecollections held in the South
Australian Museum.
Steph (39:35):
Yeah.
Unknown (39:46):
[musical interlude]
Steph (39:53):
And a little birdie told me, you're not resting. you're
just going gung-ho into morethings. Is that right?
Chris (39:59):
Well, Yes, it's interesting because I'm a mature
person and I have been thebusiest that I've probably ever
been. And whether that's byfortune or just harder working.
Both obviously.
Steph (40:15):
Momentum, even.
Chris (40:16):
Momentum. Yes. So, um...
Steph (40:18):
What's coming up?
Chris (40:19):
So what's coming up? You know, we, you talked about does
where I live influence where Iwork. I feel it's really
important to contribute into thelocal community. So I've got a
exhibition curated by a youngman from Victor Harbor, who's
put together a show at Good BankGallery in McLaren Vale.
Steph (40:39):
Oh, fantastic. Yep.
Chris (40:40):
Called... I think it's called South Coast surfing or
South Coast group. I don't evenknow what it's called. And
that's in a couple of weeks. Andthat's, I think, about five of
us... maybe six showing there.
Steph (40:52):
Mostly locally?
Chris (40:53):
Yep. All just south coast.
Steph (40:55):
Yeah. Beautiful.
Chris (40:56):
Victor harbour, Port Elliot people, which is fun. And
I really, I really enjoy doingkind of shows like that, because
it gives me a little bit morefreedom to make mistakes. And,
and be more playful. I mean, Ireally think that's an important
part of my practice is being inthe studio and kind of not being
really directed, just having theability to play. So having those
(41:19):
kinds of exhibitions allows youto play but makes you play
harder, because you have to havean outcome. And I'm not just
going to screw it up and throwit in the bin. And then also at
Coral Street Art Centre. There'sa show being curated there
called Water People and...
Steph (41:37):
Your favourite word!
Chris (41:37):
My favourite word. It's becoming my favourite word.
Well, it's on the zeitgeistright now isn't it. I mean,
everyone's talking aboutimmersion. And the benefits of,
you know, sea therapy. Butanyway, Valerie Taylor is in
this exhibition. So when I gottold Valerie Taylor was in it,
what can I had to say yes,because she's like a water
person icon. And she does thesekind of weird illustrations of
(42:03):
nymphs, like underwater nymphsand stuff.
Steph (42:05):
So cool.
Chris (42:05):
So I want to be in because I want to be supporting
the community, but I want to bein it because I want to see
Valerie Taylor, I just hope sheappears. They're going to be
running one of her movies at theVictor Harbor cinema.
Steph (42:15):
oh that's cool.
Chris (42:16):
And so I'm exhibiting with Valerie Taylor. And then in
2024, a project I'm working onwith Flinders Art Museum is in
combination with the humanitiesdepartment there, and
dovetailing in with some historyconference and it's around sea
grasses, and that's in 2024. Sothat's more than enough for me
(42:39):
to contend with.
Steph (42:40):
I daresay
Chris (42:41):
Yeah.
Steph (42:41):
Still enough excuses to get into the water.
Chris (42:44):
No, no, that is integral in most days. Most days. There
is a swim.
Steph (42:51):
There's a dip.
Chris (42:51):
Yeah, there's a dip.
Steph (42:52):
And are you... more of a float or hard swim?
Chris (42:55):
Oh no swim. It's earnest. Yeah, I have swum with two
friends for a very long time.And as I mentioned, Honor
Freeman has joined us in thelast few years, and she's
younger than the rest of us. Soshe keeps us on our toes. But
it's a, it's a, it's an earnestswim. It varies depending on the
conditions. But it's a it's avery deep dive.
Steph (43:16):
-ah!-
Chris (43:16):
and it's good swimming.
Steph (43:18):
There it is.
Chris (43:18):
Yeah.
Steph (43:19):
I don't think we can top that. And we can follow along on
your Instagram.
Chris (43:22):
That's it. Yeah.
Steph (43:24):
Yep. Beautiful. All right. We'll leave it there.
Thank you so much. That was,yep, 'deep dive' was the word.
Chris (43:30):
Thanks.
Unknown (43:31):
[music]
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