October 20, 2022 • 44 mins
Steph catches up with Ruby Allegra ahead of their solo exhibition ‘From My Room’ at Newmarch Gallery. Fittingly, their chat takes place in Ruby’s room, where they discuss the concept of the bed as a workspace, (a key theme of the exhibition), accessibility in the arts, and a love of Matisse. See also: blanket forts, and what spoons have to do with anything.
Transcript of this interview (PDF)
Show Notes
- @RvbyTheArtist on Instagram
- ‘From My Room’ by Ruby Allegra at Newmarch Gallery
- @NewmarchGallery on Instagram
- From My Room Opening Night, Friday 4 November, RSVP for physical attendance or keep an eye out for online attendance option. [Eventbrite link]
- What is Spoon Theory? – Happiful article
- Post Office Projects Gallery & Studios [website][Instagram]
- ‘Only use your bed for sex and sleep’ [Guardian article]
- ‘White cube gallery’ [Wikipedia]
- ‘Visibility’ at Wyndham Art Gallery [Exhibition Catalogue as PDF]
- POC [person/s of colour]
- Ruby Allegra, Disabled Nudes
- ‘The Blue Nudes’ by Matisse [Wikipedia]
- Frida Kahlo [Wikipedia]
- Photo of Matisse in bed
Main image: A person with brown hair in a pink jumper holds a gray short-haired cat and looks at the camera. Photo of Ruby Allegra by Sia Duff.
Music: Siddharta Corsus - Star of David via FreeMusicArchive.org
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steph (00:13):
Hello and welcome to the SALA podcast. My name is Steph
and today I'm delighted to beinterviewing Ruby Allegra ahead
of their upcoming soloexhibition 'From My Room' at
Newmarch Gallery. It's superrelevant that we are catching up
in Ruby's home, in their room,quite contextually on-point
there. But before we go ahead, Ijust want to take a moment to
(00:36):
acknowledge that we are on thetraditional lands and waters of
the Kaurna People and payrespects to elders past, present
and emerging. Ruby, thank you somuch for finding time to chat in
the lead up to your exhibition.
Ruby (00:50):
Thanks for having me. And welcome to my messy chaotic
room.
Steph (00:55):
It's good, it looks inspired. And yeah, definitely
things happening, which we'rewhat like, a bit under a month
out at the time of recording?
Ruby (01:04):
Yeah - my mum texted me exactly like, on the day of a
month out of my show being like"a month!" and I was like
'thanks Mum'. Love you, mum.
Steph (01:16):
I love it. Well, before we get stuck into this
interview, I just wanted to askabout how you define your
practice. So do you think ofyour art making as separate from
your other pursuits, liketattooing, zine-making, makeup
artistry? Or do they feelinterconnected and do you sort
of consider them as one thing?
Ruby (01:38):
I feel like it, they all kind of connect together to form
my practice, or like, the mediumthat I'm using, I guess kind of
depends on the work that I'mwanting to make and like, what
the message is, or, you know,what I'm wanting someone to feel
from receiving that work. And sothat's kind of what informs
(02:02):
where I choose to go in terms ofdirection of like, what medium
I'm gonna use for it. So Ithink, yeah, having all of those
different elements, I definitelythink it's probably very closely
linked with like, my ADHD aswell, and autism in terms of
getting hyperfixated on specifichobbies or skills or things and
(02:27):
having a having a hyperfixation,really intensely, and being
like, Oh, I've just discoveredthis new skill or this new
medium. And it's really cool touse. And I'm going to really
over hyperfocus on that for avery long time. And I'm just
(02:48):
kind of accumulating differentskills and formats of knowledge
and communication. And I thinkthat kind of sums me up as a
person as well, because I don'treally sit with any binary or
box of
Steph (03:09):
That's a nice parallel.
Ruby (03:10):
Yeah, I mean, in all sort of areas of my work. I don't
really like the idea of juststicking to one thing, and I
guess, like putting all my eggsin one basket,
Steph (03:21):
or being defined by one medium.
Ruby (03:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think it I think there's too many rules
that we're taught growing upabout art and what it should be
and what it shouldn't be, andwho should be allowed to do it
and access it.
Steph (03:34):
And how to do it, yeah
Ruby (03:35):
and I think that that's... umm... I don't agree with that.
Steph (03:40):
Yeah - we could drop a bleep in there. [both laugh] Oh
dear, Yeah no, I totally getwhere you're coming from. Well,
I guess following on from that,did you always know you're gonna
be creative?
Ruby (03:54):
Yeah
Steph (03:54):
Yeah
Ruby (03:54):
Definitely. I was actually, um, the other day I
was looking, my mom found a boxof all my old artwork from when
I was little,
Steph (04:04):
oh, gosh, that can be an experience.
Ruby (04:05):
Oh it was pretty funny. Like looking through some of the
stuff that I was doing. And Iwas like, I haven't changed at
all. I haven't changed at all interms of style, or,
Steph (04:16):
-I love it-
Ruby (04:17):
you know, colour or whatever.
Steph (04:19):
Was the pink and red thing back then?
Ruby (04:21):
pink and red. Absolutely everything pink. Absolutely. For
my whole life. My firstwheelchair was pink, like hot
pink.
Steph (04:28):
Yep
Ruby (04:30):
But and rainbows and like butterflies and flowers. And I
think I'm like, as an adult, I'mkind of like revisiting my
childhood.
Steph (04:40):
Yeah, and those motifs.
Ruby (04:41):
Yeah. I mean, like, particularly as like disabled
artist like growing up. And mychildhood was not. I had to grow
up in a very different manner toeveryone else my age and so
there wasn't a huge amount oftime for being a kid, it was
(05:02):
just like very informed bymedical trauma and being
surrounded by adults at alltimes, and social isolation and
all of that kind of stuff. Soeven though I was a kid with a
really vivid imagination, andlike, love for colour, and all
of these different things, Ididn't always have access to
that either socially, or becauseI, you know, was dealing with
(05:26):
being a disabled child in anon-accessible world. And so
like, as an adult, now, it'skind of been fun, being able to
revisit some of the things thatI loved as a child and allow
myself to, like, revisit my lovefor them. And just be like,
Yeah, I don't, I don't give ashit. Like if, you know, if I
(05:52):
want to make art that's justlike, covered in rainbows and
flowers and pink and, you know,revisiting things that might
seem childish, or whatever.
Steph (06:06):
It's underpinned by something actually, quite
meaningful
Ruby (06:08):
Yeah but yeah, but I can remember drawing and painting
for as long as I can remember. Imean, like, as a little child,
I've had, you know, physicaltherapy pretty much for my whole
life, which I'm very lucky tohave, you know, accessed. But,
you know, a lot of that therapywas quite painful. And drawing
(06:32):
and art was what I would do, youknow, during some of those times
to manage that pain, and to passthe time, like, even just at
appointments, lots of waitingaround, and lots of like,
sitting around with a bunch ofadults kind of having adult
conversations about me and aboutmy body and all of this kind of
(06:53):
stuff. So, yeah, art wasdefinitely a good escape from
that.
Steph (07:00):
So it's always been there. Yeah. And how would you
describe your art to someone youjust met? A tricky one.
Ruby (07:10):
It is a tricky one. Because I think it would also
depend on the person that I'mmeeting,
Steph (07:16):
and how much time do you have?
Ruby (07:17):
Yeah, exactly. But also, like, you know, who is that
person? Is that person a child?
Steph (07:23):
oh yeah
Ruby (07:24):
You know, am I am I explaining my show to a child?
Steph (07:28):
Oh, my God, how would you describe it to your younger
self?
Ruby (07:31):
Oh that's such a cool question. Well, I really wanted
to honour on my younger self inthis show. Like, I think that's
a huge part of it. And I didn'tknow, when I was trying to make
decisions about creativedecision-making through the
(07:52):
process of building the works. Iwas just thinking about, like,
what would six-year-old me love?What would six-year-old me get
really excited about, andallowing those decisions to kind
of be informed by that. So if Iwas talking to young me about
this show, I would probably sayit would be a sparkly pink,
(08:17):
Rainbow world that talks a lotabout both how wonderful and
joyful it is to exist in mybody, but also how tricky and
painful it can be as well, inthe world that we live in. Yeah,
I think...
Steph (08:38):
That's gentle enough for a child to hear
Ruby (08:41):
honestly, but like still, with. Yeah, lots of fun, and
things that you can touch andfeel and interact with code.
Steph (08:52):
So there's another rule broken there, you can touch some
of the artwork. I love that.
Ruby (08:56):
yeah, there's a lot of different sort of interactive
elements of the show, which willbe fun.
Steph (09:01):
Yeah. And what -I mean we've dived right into the show
itself-
Ruby (09:06):
Yeah.
Steph (09:07):
How many different like mediums I have you got in the
show, like it sounds likethere's at least there's 3d
stuff, 2d stuff...
Ruby (09:14):
Yeah. So that there's quite a few I guess I've got
furniture pieces that I'mpainting and that will include a
bed because I guess the conceptof the show, The show is 'From
My Room', so it's kind of set uplike a bedroom
Steph (09:30):
Oh that's so cool!
Ruby (09:30):
and so you're coming into my room and my world and my
space. And yeah, so there'll besome furniture pieces. There's
digital works which will beprinted. There will be painting
works - oil, acrylic; there'slino-print, clay work,
Steph (09:49):
oh gosh
Ruby (09:49):
embroidery, crochet and like other textiles.
Steph (09:54):
Wow.
Ruby (09:55):
There's a lot. When I... there's a lot of different...
zines,
Steph (09:59):
Oh cool!
Ruby (09:59):
You know, like lots of different... I wanted it to be
reflective of like how I worknaturally as a artist. And I
think, and I guess it goes backinto your question earlier,
like, I have a lot of differentmethods of making work because I
really need to be prepared andon any given day for what my
(10:22):
body is going to be capable ofdoing. And so, you know, like,
if I wake up, and I'm in hugeamounts of pain and I can't
leave my bed, what can I do sothat I can keep making art.
Because that's what that's howmy brain finds joy and peace is
through making work. So what canI do when I'm having a really
(10:45):
big flare with my chronic painor whatever. And so that might
be, you know, drawing on my iPadin bed, which I have been doing
lots of. It might be crochetingin bed while I'm watching TV,
but then, you know, when I haveenergy and spoons -I'll explain
(11:07):
Spoon Theory in a little bit, soI'll like jump to that in a bit-
But when I have energy, and Ican make it into you know, the
studio, what sort of things canI do there, I can work on my
clay, I can do painting, I cando linoprint. And so it
(11:27):
honestly, like the fact thatthere are so many different
mediums, I think is more anaccess component for me than
anything else. And and I think,yeah, I've been very lucky that
I've been able to have access toa studio space for the last
coming up to two years now downat Post Office Projects Gallery
(11:49):
and Studios in Port Adelaide.And so I've been very lucky that
I've been able to spread out mypractice a little bit more and
start to experiment withcreating some bigger works.
Because up until that point, alot of my work I was creating in
my bed or at my kitchen table,or you know, wherever I can fit
Steph (12:11):
There's so many people nodding their heads right now
haha.
Ruby (12:12):
Yeah. And then like getting so overwhelmed, because
there's no room to sit and eatdinner. As we are currently
speaking, we're sitting on onehalf of my double bed and the
other half is entirely coveredin materials for making work.
I've got yarn for crochet, andmy blanket in progress. I've got
(12:34):
my invitations printed. Yeah,you can have a sneak peek if you
want. Yeah, you can have a lookat it. Yep.
Steph (12:41):
Yeah, I love it.
Ruby (12:42):
Um, yeah, so. But I think that's the like, that's comes
back to the theme. And like thetitle of the show, 'From My
Room', which is really about,you know, this idea that for a
lot of disabled people ingeneral, not just artists, but
any disabled person,particularly multiply
(13:03):
marginalized disabled people, alot of the time, our beds and
our rest spaces are also ourworkspaces. They're also our
community-building spaces, ourprotest spaces. And that's not
always out of choice. Quiteoften, that's a factor of, you
know, an inaccessible andableist environment outside in
(13:26):
the world. And so we retreatedinto these spaces to, to access
what we're not able tophysically. And so that's where,
you know, social media andonline connection come in. And
yeah, so it's essentially it'sreally, it's really about how
(13:46):
that concept of what it means tolike, be able to show up or to
build community, what does thatlook like, you know, if you
can't do that, physically, youcan't show up physically,
because of the structure of oursociety.
Steph (14:04):
And it is quite a concept if you aren't someone who's in
that position, and your roomjust has one purpose
Ruby (14:10):
Yes.
Steph (14:10):
You know, that's a lot to wrap your head around.
Ruby (14:13):
Exactly
Steph (14:14):
Having so many modes within a single space.
Ruby (14:16):
Yeah. Well, I mean, like, people talk a lot about keeping
your rest space and yourworkspace separate, and, you
know, only using your rest spacefor sleeping and sex and, you
know, whatever,
Steph (14:29):
limited things
Ruby (14:30):
you know, and then doing other, you know, work elsewhere.
Disabled people don't have thatoption. And, you know, I'm also
a privileged disabled personbecause I'm, you know, white, I
have access to community supportand family support networks. And
I have a house, space that I canlive in, I have a bedroom, I
(14:53):
have a bed, you know, so itencourages you to think more
about people who don't haveaccess to safe or stable housing
and all of that kind of stuff.But yeah, I think I went on a
huge tangent.
Steph (15:12):
I love it.
Unknown (15:13):
[brief upbeat musical interlude]
Steph (15:23):
And actually, we should go back and revisit Spoon
Theory. Not that it is your jobto explain it. But just for
anyone who doesn't quite graspwhat that is, we're not talking
about literal spoons.
Ruby (15:33):
No, no spoon theory is a concept created by a chronically
ill disabled person. And it is,I guess, a method of terminology
and language use, which isdesigned by and for
predominantly disabledchronically ill sick people. And
(15:57):
spoons are a concept that kindof explains...
Steph (16:03):
Is it kind of like a unit of capacity?
Ruby (16:06):
Yeah, basically! So like, the basic idea is that if you
are not a disabled person, ifyou're not chronically ill,
you're healthy, you'reneurotypical; the idea is that
you each day, you wake up kindof with, I guess, an unlimited
supply of energy to do whateveryou want to do during the day.
(16:28):
To do, you know, basic tasksaround the house, whether that's
like having a shower, or eatingbreakfast or whatever
Steph (16:34):
and you wouldn't even think about it,
Ruby (16:35):
Exactly. It's just an unlimited sort of supply of
energy. And sure, there aredifferent things that might make
that fluctuate. But it's verydifferent to where spoon theory
comes in, which is the ideathat, particularly for disabled
people, chronically ill, sick,neurodivergent people, we often
(16:57):
don't wake up with an unlimitedsupply of energy. So it's kind
of; spoons are used as a, Iguess, a measurement of like
energy usage through a day. Andso it's this idea that you might
wake up with only a finiteamount of energy or a finite
amount of spoons in your day.And each day, you have to use
(17:21):
those spoons to do all the tasksthat you want to do in that day,
but you've only got a certainamount of spoons, so you need to
be very careful about rationinghow you use those spoons, or
those little chunks of energy todo the things that you want to
do.
Steph (17:36):
It's almost like a currency isn't it, you've got to
decide where you spend them.
Ruby (17:39):
It is! It absolutely is a currency. And, you know,
different tasks might require adifferent amount of spoons. So
you know, you might wake up andyou've got like, 10 spoons - I'm
using numerical values just toexplain it. Like I don't wake up
and I'm like, [sarcastically]'I've got seven and a half
spoons today'
Steph (17:59):
[laughter] 'my spoon-dar'
Ruby (18:00):
Yeah, exactly. But like, as a way of explaining the
currency it is a really goodanalogy. And I've actually got a
piece specifically about spoonsas currency.
Steph (18:13):
Oh I love that.
Ruby (18:13):
I like going spoon shopping, grocery shopping.
Yeah. And so this idea that, youknow, if I wake up, and I have
10 spoons in a day, and I wantto have a shower, and that takes
5 spoons; I want to eat lunch,and that takes another 5 spoons;
already, we're at 10 spoons, butI might also want to do
(18:33):
something else, like I don'tknow, see a friend or whatever,
that might take another 5spoons. So I'm either going to
have to sacrifice doing one ofthose things on that list, or
I'm going to push myself to doall of them, and I will
potentially have a lot lessspoons the next day, or it will
send me into a flare up or I'llbe you know, where I'll be in
(18:56):
lots of pain, you know, andheavily fatigued. And that's
where fatigue and you know,being tired after a long day are
two very different things.
Steph (19:05):
Yeah.
Ruby (19:06):
So, you know, I'm sure a lot of artists can relate to
fatigue and burnout and a lot ofthat kind of stuff. It's like
that, but like a lot moreintense and it informs every
area of your life. You know, Ihave to think very, very
carefully about how I plan mydays, so that I can do the
(19:31):
things that I need to do butalso things that I would like to
do without sacrificing myphysical and mental wellbeing in
the process. It's not an easything to learn.
Steph (19:45):
No, it sounds like you almost have to plan, not just
what you're doing, but plan theenergy use, days in ahead.
Ruby (19:51):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Often I will write a list before
I go to bed of things that Ihave to do or things that I want
to do the next day and I willthen review that list the next
morning when I wake up and I canfeel how my body's feeling. And
often I'll have to cross lots ofthings off that list when I
review it and realize, like, oh,I actually don't have the spoons
(20:12):
or capacity to do any of thesetasks today, and I can only
afford to get out of bed andbrush my teeth, something, you
know,
Steph (20:21):
which makes the fact that you're about to have your first
solo show even more amazing!
Ruby (20:25):
Yeah, I mean, it's been very difficult. And certainly,
the pandemic has not helped. Iactually had COVID, three or
four weeks ago, and that reallyhit me hard. I'm thankful that I
(20:46):
have managed to avoid getting ituntil this moment, but it really
knocked me around. And I havegotten sick a couple of times
after that. So it's yeah, thekind of like managing the spoons
over the last sort of year or sohas been not an easy thing. But
(21:07):
it's kind of, I guess, havingthis show sort of, you know, I
guess, in the back of my mind,you know, as something to look
forward to has definitely been amotivating factor. And, like,
knowing exactly when it is; I'vegot this date, this deadline to
work towards. And I'm just like,it's just something I'm so
(21:28):
excited about, you know,preparing that. A lot of the
work that I've made for thisshow I've been making, in my
bed, from my room, you know,I've got pieces that I made
while while I was in bed withCOVID, not being able to
breathe,
Steph (21:45):
but you could make art Yeah,
Ruby (21:47):
I could make art but that was mostly because if I didn't,
you know, because my brain wasfeeling active and needing to be
stimulated. And that's a bigpart of like, my autism, as well
is needing that, likestimulation and making art is
sometimes the only way that Ifeel like I can manage that
(22:08):
energy. And so, yeah, when I hadCOVID, when I wasn't sleeping I
couldn't really even, like situp enough in my bed to look at
my TV or, you know, so drawingwas something that I could kind
of focus on while I was lyingdown.
Steph (22:32):
That makes all the different mediums makes so much
more sense.
Ruby (22:34):
Yeah,
Steph (22:35):
And I can't wait to see them all in the [space]. And
actually speaking of the space,you said you've gone and seen
the space itself. Is this thefirst time that you've worked
with the sort of classic whitecube kind of gallery?
Ruby (22:47):
Yeah, I would say so. I I've had work in other shows
before like in group shows, Iwas in a group show called
'Visibility' curated by somewonderful people Pauline Vetuna
and Hannah Morphy-Walsh. Andthat was all disabled and trans
(23:09):
or disabled POC artists. Andthat was presented at Wyndham
Art Gallery in Victoria. Andthat, I guess, was also sort of
working with the gallery space,but because that was an
interstate show, I didn't haveanything to do with the actual
installation process.
Steph (23:27):
Ok
Ruby (23:28):
So yeah, this is my first solo show. And I'm my first time
kind of working in a like agallery space.
Steph (23:38):
And it sounds like you are enjoying that level of
control.
Ruby (23:42):
Oh absolutely
Steph (23:44):
You know, when you say like, 'I'm setting up like a
room', it's like YES!
Ruby (23:46):
Yes, I'm so excited. The thing I loved about when I sort
of went to see the space wasbeing able to chat to Ed who
works there, about you know, thedifferent ways that the space
can be used and sort of adaptedto fit your needs in terms of
like, moveable walls and stuff.I kind of went in, like guns
(24:09):
blazing and I was like, 'Okay,so can we paint the walls pink?
Can this be rainbow? Can we havethis and this...'
Steph (24:16):
Look. if you don't ask...
Ruby (24:18):
Exactly. If you don't ask, you're not gonna know. And you
know, he was like, oh, you knowthere's there's stickers on the
windows with the artist's nameand like little bit information
about the shore and I was like,'Can it be a different colour?'
and he was like 'Let's ask!' andso it's been really cool being
able to have the vision that'sin my head because I have a very
(24:40):
visual like,
Steph (24:42):
oh so you can see it
Ruby (24:43):
brain and imagination. Yeah, very, very visual in terms
of my thought process is I canreally strongly visualize how I
want it to, to be and to havethe space that I can use in
whichever way I want for thiswhole month is really cool
Steph (25:03):
It's a lot of power, isn't it?
Ruby (25:05):
It is, it is a lot of power. And and I don't take that
lightly at all, you know,because I've been given the
amazing privilege of having thisgallery space and this
exhibition. And I don't takethat lightly at all, because it
is such a difficult space to, tobe working as a disabled trans
(25:30):
artist in a very mainstream artsort of scene. And
representation and even justdepictions of disability and
mobility aids in art is almostnothing. But also like I have
(25:50):
this platform, and community isvery important to me. So, you
know, there are other people whodon't have access to platforms,
who should have access to them.And so, you know, if I've been
given this opportunity, I'mabsolutely going to take it and
use it to the best of my abilityto uplift community and build
(26:14):
community where I can. Andthat's a huge part of my sort of
value system in planning all ofmy works is, you know, there's
there's lots of, I guess, somepolitical, well not political..
political and
Steph (26:32):
social I guess
Ruby (26:33):
social conversations, and
Steph (26:37):
they're sort of imbued into the work then I guess
aren't then
Ruby (26:39):
Yeah, and I, you know, I even had a chat to one of the
staff members at the ProspectLibrary, which is joined on to
the gallery, about working withthem to set up a display of
books specifically curated forthe show.
Steph (26:56):
oh cool!
Ruby (26:58):
So that I can, you know, say, Okay, well, you've, you've
received my artwork, you canprocess that however. I've given
you a starting point of oneperspective of being a disabled
trans person in this world. Andthis is where you can go from
(27:19):
here; these are the people thatyou should be reading and
watching and supporting. Theseare the people I've learned
from. These are the people thatyou know, should be getting
platforms as well, who haveplatforms, some some of them,
Steph (27:36):
that's a great bit of co-programming. You know, here's
the continuation.
Ruby (27:41):
Exactly. Because like, often, you know, people's
response to coming up againstsomething that they're not
really familiar with, or, youknow, don't really understand
too much about is (27:54):
'well, okay, what can I do? How can I be a
better ally?' and that cansometimes get a little bit
grating on multiply marginalizedpeople who are just working hard
to survive this kind of bullshittransphobic, racist, ableist
(28:16):
world.
Steph (28:17):
Yeah.
Ruby (28:17):
And so, if I can take some of that labour and, and sort of
just like, condense it down intolike, a reading list? Yeah, at
least or something that peoplecan be like, Well, no, I'm, I
don't know if I'll be an ally.And it's like, okay, well, we've
done the work for you. Yeah,here's a literal reading list. I
(28:38):
am going to have a reading listat my exhibition. I'm not even
exaggerating. Here's a readinglist, take it and go. Go and
support these artists. Read thiswriting, read this work, consume
all of this knowledge, that Idon't own, that has been given
(28:59):
to me by other people. And, youknow, you add to it as you go,
but it's like one kind of like,it's a big, just kind of goes in
so many directions.
Steph (29:08):
Like a library of things
Ruby (29:09):
Yeah, exactly. a library of things. I think it's really
cool that we can tie it in withthat.
Steph (29:14):
Yeah. And nice to have that supporting the show. And
because I think that's one ofthose things is that yes,
there's a lot of really funaesthetics, and like you said,
borrowing from that childhoodkind of feeling. But also it is
underpinned by this greatinterconnectedness, this
community; there's a lot goingon. So to have that evident and
(29:34):
tied back...
Ruby (29:35):
Yeah.
Steph (29:36):
And um, did you there's gonna be a catalog as well?
Ruby (29:38):
Yeah, there will be currently designing a catalog
for actually yeah, I'm juststarting. I'm kind of thinking
about having pages kind of go ina rainbow order. So having like
a set up like a rainbow. Butyeah, there'll be a catalog with
some pictures of some of theworks, and I've got a couple of
(30:01):
I'm amazing disabled writersthat I'm going to be
commissioning to write somewords for the catalog.
Steph (30:08):
Amazing
Ruby (30:10):
And, yeah, we'll hopefully have like the reading list in in
there as well.
Steph (30:16):
well that'll be a great resource
Ruby (30:19):
And QR codes and things like that. Because a big part of
my practice is accessibility asan art form. And as just a way
of thinking from the beginning.So yeah, fantastic catalog is
coming along.
Unknown (30:54):
[brief upbeat musical interlude]
Steph (31:04):
And on that note of accessibility, I noticed that
you've got a lot ofconsiderations noted in the
Eventbrite listing for theexhibition from, you know, the
exhibition will be viewableonline throughout the month,
which is fantastic. And a suiteof physical, communication, and
sensory things listed. Yeah,there's a lot there.
Ruby (31:28):
Yeah, there is. As there should be. I think a big part of
my practice is, consideringaccess methods, and
accessibility of art and artwork, from the beginning stages
of any work that I create, orany kind of planning process is
thinking about (31:50):
who's going to be wanting to access this work?
And how can I facilitate that?And I guess that's where my
university education comes in,because I studied speech
pathology, and so I have apretty good understanding of
things like communicationaccess, and all of that kind of
(32:11):
stuff. And then obviously, myown, you know, physical access
needs and sensory access needs.But I think it's really
important that art is made withaccessibility at the forefront
of thinking because, I mean, ifanyone has, you know, the
privilege of aging, regardlessof whether or not they are
(32:35):
currently disabled, they willbecome disabled. And the fact
that you know, like, ableismkind of intwines into every kind
of facet of, of human existence.And it goes hand-in-hand with so
many other structures, whichuphold things like white
supremacy, and transphobia, andfat phobia, and queer phobia and
(32:58):
all of that. And I yeah, Istrongly believe in not viewing
accessibility as something thatis an add-on. I think it's
something that is considered anafterthought -if it's considered
(33:20):
at all. And often within artspaces. It's not. It's not. And,
you know, that might make somepeople uncomfortable, but it's a
fact. That's a fact is the arts,for a very long time, art spaces
have been notoriously notaccessible physically,
financially, socially,class-wise, you know. And I
(33:44):
think that it's something thateveryone should be able to
access, and make, and own, anddo, and engage with. Whether
that's being able to afford tocollect art, or being able to
afford to make art and not haveto spend all of your money and
resources -as a poor artist- onthings like bringing your own
(34:09):
access to spaces or things likethat. And so when I'm
considering things likeaccessibility, it's not just
about, you know, if I can get inthe room, even though that's one
consideration. If I can get in aroom. Most people with mobility
needs can also get into the roombecause I have quite a large and
(34:31):
heavy powered wheelchair. Butthat's not the only thing that
determines what access is orshould look like. And it's not
to say that things should or canbe universally accessible
because that's not possible.
Steph (34:47):
No, it's not.
Ruby (34:48):
because what works for one disabled person might be
completely inaccessible toanother disabled person. But
it's something that needs to beconsidered. And the only reason
that things to do withaccessibility are so costly or
supposedly so hard to find anddo is because people don't think
(35:10):
about them, they don't use them.And so those resources aren't
becoming mainstream andtherefore affordable. And people
leave it 'til the last minute.So I think there's something,
Steph (35:26):
There's something up there. Yeah.
Ruby (35:27):
Yeah. And it's, it's, I really think it's, it's time;
it's past time. It's absolutelypast time, that exhibitions, and
art spaces, and artwork, andanything to do with creative
arts, whether that's visualarts, or performing arts, or,
(35:48):
you know, whatever. It is waypast time that those spaces and
institutions be allowed toremain completely inaccessible,
and exclusive of disabled anddeaf and chronically ill people.
Particularly those who are alsopeople of colour, First Nations,
(36:08):
trans, etc. And so a big part ofwhat I wanted to provide with
this show is yes, it's going tobe pretty and cute and joyful
and happy. But it's also goingto -hopefully- encourage some
people in the industry toquestion their methods and make
(36:30):
some changes to their practiceand the way that they engage
with disabled artists; the waythat gallery spaces work to
incorporate accessibility inshows, whether that's with
things like Auslan interpretedwriting, or braille, or audio
(36:51):
description, or imagedescriptions. You know, there
are so many different thingsthat can be done. You know,
like, if I, one disabled person,am doing these things;
institutions, galleries,organizations that have access
to much more funding than I do,absolutely can do these things.
Steph (37:14):
Yeah
Ruby (37:14):
So, yeah, um, and that goes for accessing the artworks
too, which is why I'll beincorporating tactile artworks
that people can touch, sensoryartworks, I'll be building a
giant blanket fort
Steph (37:30):
[gasp]
Ruby (37:30):
that people can go inside that's going to be accessible. I
have a friend who will be doingsome Auslan descriptions of
works, because Auslan, ofcourse, is a separate language
to English. And I'll have, youknow, image descriptions and
audio descriptions. And yes,it's a lot to think about. But I
(37:53):
consider it as a part of mypractice, not as an addition to
my practice. And so that's justsomething that I weave into my
thought processes. I don't havethis list, you know, next to me
when I'm doing all my stuff.Yeah. Because I'm like, Oh,
well, I know that not everysingle piece is going to be
accessible to every singleperson. But you've got to start
(38:17):
from somewhere. And it's abouttrial and error. And, you know,
how can you creatively make yourwork more accessible? Or how can
you creatively incorporateaccessibility and access methods
without without hiding them,because it's still important to
(38:39):
incorporate those things asthings of beauty and they can be
beautiful. And I think ifdisabled people had complete
autonomy over the way thataccess was designed and
implemented in the world, itwould look fundamentally
different to what we think aboutnow.
Steph (38:57):
Isn't that's so interesting.
Ruby (38:58):
Yeah, it is, it is. I think about it all the time. And
in my work, I've done a fewfuture kind of scenario works of
designing, say, my dream loungeroom that and how access might
be incorporated into that. And Ihave representation of mobility
(39:19):
aids and disabled body parts inthe works. Because it's so, so
rare that you see thatrepresentation of those things
in Fine Arts in ways thataren't, you know, pitied or
medicalized or clinicalalized orseen as, you know, broken or
(39:43):
inspiration or...
Steph (39:45):
I feel the need to mention the disabled nudes at
this point.
Ruby (39:48):
Oh, yeah yeah yeah, disabled nudes!
Steph (39:52):
The series though, are they lino cuts?
Ruby (39:54):
No, they're not. They're digital pieces.
Steph (39:56):
They're digital prints? I'm just being indulgent now.
Ruby (39:58):
No, no, no! I did think about doing them as lino cuts, I
just haven't got around to it.Because sometimes I'll do a
piece and I'll be like, 'Oh,okay, this could actually work
well as this form'. And so whenI was doing those, I was like,
Oh, these would work well aslino cuts. But they kind of came
out of doing some sort ofstudies and -not studies but
(40:22):
like, kind of observations- ofMatisse's collage works, the
blue nudes, because I loveMatisse's work and use of colour
and shape and form andespecially with his collage
works. I actually have one ofthem tattooed on my leg.
Steph (40:41):
So good.
Ruby (40:41):
Yeah. And I didn't realize until after I had this tattoo on
my leg, that he was also adisabled artist. And there are
photos of him making work fromhis bed of painting on a huge
canvas up on the wall, I thinkI've got a photo. And I had no
(41:03):
idea until
Steph (41:04):
until after!?
Ruby (41:05):
until I googled it and I my brain just sort of imploded.
This was after I had startedmaking works for this show.
Steph (41:13):
Yeah wow yeah.
Ruby (41:14):
So I already had developed this concept of, of making work
from my room. And of course, youknow, there's also there's been
so many artists throughouthistory who have been disabled,
and you know, their disabledidentity has been erased. But
there are artists throughouthistory who have made work from
their room; you know, there areartists now making work from
(41:35):
their room. But, you know,another artist that comes to
mind is Frida Kahlo, who alsowas a disabled queer artist, and
there are photos of her makingwork in her bed as well. But
yeah, there's, here's a photo ofMatisse in his bed with this
very, very long, almost like ametre long paintbrush, and he's
(41:59):
painting a big kind ofminimalist face on his bedroom
wall. And I saw this photo and Iwas like, wow, this is, you
know, this is also anotherrepresentation of, of, you know,
he obviously had, you know,privilege and access to
resources so that he could havethis studio set up from his
(42:21):
room. But it's this kind ofdocumentation that we don't see
through history of artists,working in unconventional ways
and places and withdisabilities. And I want to
change that, you know, I want tobe able to see representation of
(42:42):
disabled existence and disabledjoy and disabled art through
history.
Steph (42:49):
Well, I dare say, you are being the change, as cheesy as
that is, and I'm very muchlooking forward to the show.
Ruby (42:57):
Yeah me too!
Steph (42:58):
I'm hoping that it will be open pretty shortly after we
publish this episode. And yeah,and I hope that people take the
time to enjoy the show and soakup the different the dynamics of
what's in it, because there's somuch packed in there.
Ruby (43:13):
So much. Yeah. And I wanted to make sure that the
show would be accessible, likeonline as well. So that, because
I have a lot of friends andpeople who follow my work from
interstate and overseas, andespecially, you know, going back
to disabled access and all thatkind of stuff to the world.
(43:34):
That's why I wanted it to beavailable online so that people
can still
Steph (43:37):
view it from their room!
Ruby (43:39):
Exactly! They can view it from their room. And I think
that's something that willresonate quite heavily with a
lot of disabled and chronicallyill people. Yeah, yeah.
Steph (43:48):
Wonderful. All right. Well, I think we'll leave it
there and let the work speak foritself.
Ruby (43:53):
Absolutely, thank you so much.
Steph (43:55):
Thanks Ruby.
Hello and welcome to the SALA podcast. My name is Steph
and today I'm delighted to beinterviewing Ruby Allegra ahead
of their upcoming soloexhibition 'From My Room' at
Newmarch Gallery. It's superrelevant that we are catching up
in Ruby's home, in their room,quite contextually on-point
there. But before we go ahead, Ijust want to take a moment to
(00:36):
acknowledge that we are on thetraditional lands and waters of
the Kaurna People and payrespects to elders past, present
and emerging. Ruby, thank you somuch for finding time to chat in
the lead up to your exhibition.
Ruby (00:50):
Thanks for having me. And welcome to my messy chaotic
room.
Steph (00:55):
It's good, it looks inspired. And yeah, definitely
things happening, which we'rewhat like, a bit under a month
out at the time of recording?
Ruby (01:04):
Yeah - my mum texted me exactly like, on the day of a
month out of my show being like"a month!" and I was like
'thanks Mum'. Love you, mum.
Steph (01:16):
I love it. Well, before we get stuck into this
interview, I just wanted to askabout how you define your
practice. So do you think ofyour art making as separate from
your other pursuits, liketattooing, zine-making, makeup
artistry? Or do they feelinterconnected and do you sort
of consider them as one thing?
Ruby (01:38):
I feel like it, they all kind of connect together to form
my practice, or like, the mediumthat I'm using, I guess kind of
depends on the work that I'mwanting to make and like, what
the message is, or, you know,what I'm wanting someone to feel
from receiving that work. And sothat's kind of what informs
(02:02):
where I choose to go in terms ofdirection of like, what medium
I'm gonna use for it. So Ithink, yeah, having all of those
different elements, I definitelythink it's probably very closely
linked with like, my ADHD aswell, and autism in terms of
getting hyperfixated on specifichobbies or skills or things and
(02:27):
having a having a hyperfixation,really intensely, and being
like, Oh, I've just discoveredthis new skill or this new
medium. And it's really cool touse. And I'm going to really
over hyperfocus on that for avery long time. And I'm just
(02:48):
kind of accumulating differentskills and formats of knowledge
and communication. And I thinkthat kind of sums me up as a
person as well, because I don'treally sit with any binary or
box of
Steph (03:09):
That's a nice parallel.
Ruby (03:10):
Yeah, I mean, in all sort of areas of my work. I don't
really like the idea of juststicking to one thing, and I
guess, like putting all my eggsin one basket,
Steph (03:21):
or being defined by one medium.
Ruby (03:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think it I think there's too many rules
that we're taught growing upabout art and what it should be
and what it shouldn't be, andwho should be allowed to do it
and access it.
Steph (03:34):
And how to do it, yeah
Ruby (03:35):
and I think that that's... umm... I don't agree with that.
Steph (03:40):
Yeah - we could drop a bleep in there. [both laugh] Oh
dear, Yeah no, I totally getwhere you're coming from. Well,
I guess following on from that,did you always know you're gonna
be creative?
Ruby (03:54):
Yeah
Steph (03:54):
Yeah
Ruby (03:54):
Definitely. I was actually, um, the other day I
was looking, my mom found a boxof all my old artwork from when
I was little,
Steph (04:04):
oh, gosh, that can be an experience.
Ruby (04:05):
Oh it was pretty funny. Like looking through some of the
stuff that I was doing. And Iwas like, I haven't changed at
all. I haven't changed at all interms of style, or,
Steph (04:16):
-I love it-
Ruby (04:17):
you know, colour or whatever.
Steph (04:19):
Was the pink and red thing back then?
Ruby (04:21):
pink and red. Absolutely everything pink. Absolutely. For
my whole life. My firstwheelchair was pink, like hot
pink.
Steph (04:28):
Yep
Ruby (04:30):
But and rainbows and like butterflies and flowers. And I
think I'm like, as an adult, I'mkind of like revisiting my
childhood.
Steph (04:40):
Yeah, and those motifs.
Ruby (04:41):
Yeah. I mean, like, particularly as like disabled
artist like growing up. And mychildhood was not. I had to grow
up in a very different manner toeveryone else my age and so
there wasn't a huge amount oftime for being a kid, it was
(05:02):
just like very informed bymedical trauma and being
surrounded by adults at alltimes, and social isolation and
all of that kind of stuff. Soeven though I was a kid with a
really vivid imagination, andlike, love for colour, and all
of these different things, Ididn't always have access to
that either socially, or becauseI, you know, was dealing with
(05:26):
being a disabled child in anon-accessible world. And so
like, as an adult, now, it'skind of been fun, being able to
revisit some of the things thatI loved as a child and allow
myself to, like, revisit my lovefor them. And just be like,
Yeah, I don't, I don't give ashit. Like if, you know, if I
(05:52):
want to make art that's justlike, covered in rainbows and
flowers and pink and, you know,revisiting things that might
seem childish, or whatever.
Steph (06:06):
It's underpinned by something actually, quite
meaningful
Ruby (06:08):
Yeah but yeah, but I can remember drawing and painting
for as long as I can remember. Imean, like, as a little child,
I've had, you know, physicaltherapy pretty much for my whole
life, which I'm very lucky tohave, you know, accessed. But,
you know, a lot of that therapywas quite painful. And drawing
(06:32):
and art was what I would do, youknow, during some of those times
to manage that pain, and to passthe time, like, even just at
appointments, lots of waitingaround, and lots of like,
sitting around with a bunch ofadults kind of having adult
conversations about me and aboutmy body and all of this kind of
(06:53):
stuff. So, yeah, art wasdefinitely a good escape from
that.
Steph (07:00):
So it's always been there. Yeah. And how would you
describe your art to someone youjust met? A tricky one.
Ruby (07:10):
It is a tricky one. Because I think it would also
depend on the person that I'mmeeting,
Steph (07:16):
and how much time do you have?
Ruby (07:17):
Yeah, exactly. But also, like, you know, who is that
person? Is that person a child?
Steph (07:23):
oh yeah
Ruby (07:24):
You know, am I am I explaining my show to a child?
Steph (07:28):
Oh, my God, how would you describe it to your younger
self?
Ruby (07:31):
Oh that's such a cool question. Well, I really wanted
to honour on my younger self inthis show. Like, I think that's
a huge part of it. And I didn'tknow, when I was trying to make
decisions about creativedecision-making through the
(07:52):
process of building the works. Iwas just thinking about, like,
what would six-year-old me love?What would six-year-old me get
really excited about, andallowing those decisions to kind
of be informed by that. So if Iwas talking to young me about
this show, I would probably sayit would be a sparkly pink,
(08:17):
Rainbow world that talks a lotabout both how wonderful and
joyful it is to exist in mybody, but also how tricky and
painful it can be as well, inthe world that we live in. Yeah,
I think...
Steph (08:38):
That's gentle enough for a child to hear
Ruby (08:41):
honestly, but like still, with. Yeah, lots of fun, and
things that you can touch andfeel and interact with code.
Steph (08:52):
So there's another rule broken there, you can touch some
of the artwork. I love that.
Ruby (08:56):
yeah, there's a lot of different sort of interactive
elements of the show, which willbe fun.
Steph (09:01):
Yeah. And what -I mean we've dived right into the show
itself-
Ruby (09:06):
Yeah.
Steph (09:07):
How many different like mediums I have you got in the
show, like it sounds likethere's at least there's 3d
stuff, 2d stuff...
Ruby (09:14):
Yeah. So that there's quite a few I guess I've got
furniture pieces that I'mpainting and that will include a
bed because I guess the conceptof the show, The show is 'From
My Room', so it's kind of set uplike a bedroom
Steph (09:30):
Oh that's so cool!
Ruby (09:30):
and so you're coming into my room and my world and my
space. And yeah, so there'll besome furniture pieces. There's
digital works which will beprinted. There will be painting
works - oil, acrylic; there'slino-print, clay work,
Steph (09:49):
oh gosh
Ruby (09:49):
embroidery, crochet and like other textiles.
Steph (09:54):
Wow.
Ruby (09:55):
There's a lot. When I... there's a lot of different...
zines,
Steph (09:59):
Oh cool!
Ruby (09:59):
You know, like lots of different... I wanted it to be
reflective of like how I worknaturally as a artist. And I
think, and I guess it goes backinto your question earlier,
like, I have a lot of differentmethods of making work because I
really need to be prepared andon any given day for what my
(10:22):
body is going to be capable ofdoing. And so, you know, like,
if I wake up, and I'm in hugeamounts of pain and I can't
leave my bed, what can I do sothat I can keep making art.
Because that's what that's howmy brain finds joy and peace is
through making work. So what canI do when I'm having a really
(10:45):
big flare with my chronic painor whatever. And so that might
be, you know, drawing on my iPadin bed, which I have been doing
lots of. It might be crochetingin bed while I'm watching TV,
but then, you know, when I haveenergy and spoons -I'll explain
(11:07):
Spoon Theory in a little bit, soI'll like jump to that in a bit-
But when I have energy, and Ican make it into you know, the
studio, what sort of things canI do there, I can work on my
clay, I can do painting, I cando linoprint. And so it
(11:27):
honestly, like the fact thatthere are so many different
mediums, I think is more anaccess component for me than
anything else. And and I think,yeah, I've been very lucky that
I've been able to have access toa studio space for the last
coming up to two years now downat Post Office Projects Gallery
(11:49):
and Studios in Port Adelaide.And so I've been very lucky that
I've been able to spread out mypractice a little bit more and
start to experiment withcreating some bigger works.
Because up until that point, alot of my work I was creating in
my bed or at my kitchen table,or you know, wherever I can fit
Steph (12:11):
There's so many people nodding their heads right now
haha.
Ruby (12:12):
Yeah. And then like getting so overwhelmed, because
there's no room to sit and eatdinner. As we are currently
speaking, we're sitting on onehalf of my double bed and the
other half is entirely coveredin materials for making work.
I've got yarn for crochet, andmy blanket in progress. I've got
(12:34):
my invitations printed. Yeah,you can have a sneak peek if you
want. Yeah, you can have a lookat it. Yep.
Steph (12:41):
Yeah, I love it.
Ruby (12:42):
Um, yeah, so. But I think that's the like, that's comes
back to the theme. And like thetitle of the show, 'From My
Room', which is really about,you know, this idea that for a
lot of disabled people ingeneral, not just artists, but
any disabled person,particularly multiply
(13:03):
marginalized disabled people, alot of the time, our beds and
our rest spaces are also ourworkspaces. They're also our
community-building spaces, ourprotest spaces. And that's not
always out of choice. Quiteoften, that's a factor of, you
know, an inaccessible andableist environment outside in
(13:26):
the world. And so we retreatedinto these spaces to, to access
what we're not able tophysically. And so that's where,
you know, social media andonline connection come in. And
yeah, so it's essentially it'sreally, it's really about how
(13:46):
that concept of what it means tolike, be able to show up or to
build community, what does thatlook like, you know, if you
can't do that, physically, youcan't show up physically,
because of the structure of oursociety.
Steph (14:04):
And it is quite a concept if you aren't someone who's in
that position, and your roomjust has one purpose
Ruby (14:10):
Yes.
Steph (14:10):
You know, that's a lot to wrap your head around.
Ruby (14:13):
Exactly
Steph (14:14):
Having so many modes within a single space.
Ruby (14:16):
Yeah. Well, I mean, like, people talk a lot about keeping
your rest space and yourworkspace separate, and, you
know, only using your rest spacefor sleeping and sex and, you
know, whatever,
Steph (14:29):
limited things
Ruby (14:30):
you know, and then doing other, you know, work elsewhere.
Disabled people don't have thatoption. And, you know, I'm also
a privileged disabled personbecause I'm, you know, white, I
have access to community supportand family support networks. And
I have a house, space that I canlive in, I have a bedroom, I
(14:53):
have a bed, you know, so itencourages you to think more
about people who don't haveaccess to safe or stable housing
and all of that kind of stuff.But yeah, I think I went on a
huge tangent.
Steph (15:12):
I love it.
Unknown (15:13):
[brief upbeat musical interlude]
Steph (15:23):
And actually, we should go back and revisit Spoon
Theory. Not that it is your jobto explain it. But just for
anyone who doesn't quite graspwhat that is, we're not talking
about literal spoons.
Ruby (15:33):
No, no spoon theory is a concept created by a chronically
ill disabled person. And it is,I guess, a method of terminology
and language use, which isdesigned by and for
predominantly disabledchronically ill sick people. And
(15:57):
spoons are a concept that kindof explains...
Steph (16:03):
Is it kind of like a unit of capacity?
Ruby (16:06):
Yeah, basically! So like, the basic idea is that if you
are not a disabled person, ifyou're not chronically ill,
you're healthy, you'reneurotypical; the idea is that
you each day, you wake up kindof with, I guess, an unlimited
supply of energy to do whateveryou want to do during the day.
(16:28):
To do, you know, basic tasksaround the house, whether that's
like having a shower, or eatingbreakfast or whatever
Steph (16:34):
and you wouldn't even think about it,
Ruby (16:35):
Exactly. It's just an unlimited sort of supply of
energy. And sure, there aredifferent things that might make
that fluctuate. But it's verydifferent to where spoon theory
comes in, which is the ideathat, particularly for disabled
people, chronically ill, sick,neurodivergent people, we often
(16:57):
don't wake up with an unlimitedsupply of energy. So it's kind
of; spoons are used as a, Iguess, a measurement of like
energy usage through a day. Andso it's this idea that you might
wake up with only a finiteamount of energy or a finite
amount of spoons in your day.And each day, you have to use
(17:21):
those spoons to do all the tasksthat you want to do in that day,
but you've only got a certainamount of spoons, so you need to
be very careful about rationinghow you use those spoons, or
those little chunks of energy todo the things that you want to
do.
Steph (17:36):
It's almost like a currency isn't it, you've got to
decide where you spend them.
Ruby (17:39):
It is! It absolutely is a currency. And, you know,
different tasks might require adifferent amount of spoons. So
you know, you might wake up andyou've got like, 10 spoons - I'm
using numerical values just toexplain it. Like I don't wake up
and I'm like, [sarcastically]'I've got seven and a half
spoons today'
Steph (17:59):
[laughter] 'my spoon-dar'
Ruby (18:00):
Yeah, exactly. But like, as a way of explaining the
currency it is a really goodanalogy. And I've actually got a
piece specifically about spoonsas currency.
Steph (18:13):
Oh I love that.
Ruby (18:13):
I like going spoon shopping, grocery shopping.
Yeah. And so this idea that, youknow, if I wake up, and I have
10 spoons in a day, and I wantto have a shower, and that takes
5 spoons; I want to eat lunch,and that takes another 5 spoons;
already, we're at 10 spoons, butI might also want to do
(18:33):
something else, like I don'tknow, see a friend or whatever,
that might take another 5spoons. So I'm either going to
have to sacrifice doing one ofthose things on that list, or
I'm going to push myself to doall of them, and I will
potentially have a lot lessspoons the next day, or it will
send me into a flare up or I'llbe you know, where I'll be in
(18:56):
lots of pain, you know, andheavily fatigued. And that's
where fatigue and you know,being tired after a long day are
two very different things.
Steph (19:05):
Yeah.
Ruby (19:06):
So, you know, I'm sure a lot of artists can relate to
fatigue and burnout and a lot ofthat kind of stuff. It's like
that, but like a lot moreintense and it informs every
area of your life. You know, Ihave to think very, very
carefully about how I plan mydays, so that I can do the
(19:31):
things that I need to do butalso things that I would like to
do without sacrificing myphysical and mental wellbeing in
the process. It's not an easything to learn.
Steph (19:45):
No, it sounds like you almost have to plan, not just
what you're doing, but plan theenergy use, days in ahead.
Ruby (19:51):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Often I will write a list before
I go to bed of things that Ihave to do or things that I want
to do the next day and I willthen review that list the next
morning when I wake up and I canfeel how my body's feeling. And
often I'll have to cross lots ofthings off that list when I
review it and realize, like, oh,I actually don't have the spoons
(20:12):
or capacity to do any of thesetasks today, and I can only
afford to get out of bed andbrush my teeth, something, you
know,
Steph (20:21):
which makes the fact that you're about to have your first
solo show even more amazing!
Ruby (20:25):
Yeah, I mean, it's been very difficult. And certainly,
the pandemic has not helped. Iactually had COVID, three or
four weeks ago, and that reallyhit me hard. I'm thankful that I
(20:46):
have managed to avoid getting ituntil this moment, but it really
knocked me around. And I havegotten sick a couple of times
after that. So it's yeah, thekind of like managing the spoons
over the last sort of year or sohas been not an easy thing. But
(21:07):
it's kind of, I guess, havingthis show sort of, you know, I
guess, in the back of my mind,you know, as something to look
forward to has definitely been amotivating factor. And, like,
knowing exactly when it is; I'vegot this date, this deadline to
work towards. And I'm just like,it's just something I'm so
(21:28):
excited about, you know,preparing that. A lot of the
work that I've made for thisshow I've been making, in my
bed, from my room, you know,I've got pieces that I made
while while I was in bed withCOVID, not being able to
breathe,
Steph (21:45):
but you could make art Yeah,
Ruby (21:47):
I could make art but that was mostly because if I didn't,
you know, because my brain wasfeeling active and needing to be
stimulated. And that's a bigpart of like, my autism, as well
is needing that, likestimulation and making art is
sometimes the only way that Ifeel like I can manage that
(22:08):
energy. And so, yeah, when I hadCOVID, when I wasn't sleeping I
couldn't really even, like situp enough in my bed to look at
my TV or, you know, so drawingwas something that I could kind
of focus on while I was lyingdown.
Steph (22:32):
That makes all the different mediums makes so much
more sense.
Ruby (22:34):
Yeah,
Steph (22:35):
And I can't wait to see them all in the [space]. And
actually speaking of the space,you said you've gone and seen
the space itself. Is this thefirst time that you've worked
with the sort of classic whitecube kind of gallery?
Ruby (22:47):
Yeah, I would say so. I I've had work in other shows
before like in group shows, Iwas in a group show called
'Visibility' curated by somewonderful people Pauline Vetuna
and Hannah Morphy-Walsh. Andthat was all disabled and trans
(23:09):
or disabled POC artists. Andthat was presented at Wyndham
Art Gallery in Victoria. Andthat, I guess, was also sort of
working with the gallery space,but because that was an
interstate show, I didn't haveanything to do with the actual
installation process.
Steph (23:27):
Ok
Ruby (23:28):
So yeah, this is my first solo show. And I'm my first time
kind of working in a like agallery space.
Steph (23:38):
And it sounds like you are enjoying that level of
control.
Ruby (23:42):
Oh absolutely
Steph (23:44):
You know, when you say like, 'I'm setting up like a
room', it's like YES!
Ruby (23:46):
Yes, I'm so excited. The thing I loved about when I sort
of went to see the space wasbeing able to chat to Ed who
works there, about you know, thedifferent ways that the space
can be used and sort of adaptedto fit your needs in terms of
like, moveable walls and stuff.I kind of went in, like guns
(24:09):
blazing and I was like, 'Okay,so can we paint the walls pink?
Can this be rainbow? Can we havethis and this...'
Steph (24:16):
Look. if you don't ask...
Ruby (24:18):
Exactly. If you don't ask, you're not gonna know. And you
know, he was like, oh, you knowthere's there's stickers on the
windows with the artist's nameand like little bit information
about the shore and I was like,'Can it be a different colour?'
and he was like 'Let's ask!' andso it's been really cool being
able to have the vision that'sin my head because I have a very
(24:40):
visual like,
Steph (24:42):
oh so you can see it
Ruby (24:43):
brain and imagination. Yeah, very, very visual in terms
of my thought process is I canreally strongly visualize how I
want it to, to be and to havethe space that I can use in
whichever way I want for thiswhole month is really cool
Steph (25:03):
It's a lot of power, isn't it?
Ruby (25:05):
It is, it is a lot of power. And and I don't take that
lightly at all, you know,because I've been given the
amazing privilege of having thisgallery space and this
exhibition. And I don't takethat lightly at all, because it
is such a difficult space to, tobe working as a disabled trans
(25:30):
artist in a very mainstream artsort of scene. And
representation and even justdepictions of disability and
mobility aids in art is almostnothing. But also like I have
(25:50):
this platform, and community isvery important to me. So, you
know, there are other people whodon't have access to platforms,
who should have access to them.And so, you know, if I've been
given this opportunity, I'mabsolutely going to take it and
use it to the best of my abilityto uplift community and build
(26:14):
community where I can. Andthat's a huge part of my sort of
value system in planning all ofmy works is, you know, there's
there's lots of, I guess, somepolitical, well not political..
political and
Steph (26:32):
social I guess
Ruby (26:33):
social conversations, and
Steph (26:37):
they're sort of imbued into the work then I guess
aren't then
Ruby (26:39):
Yeah, and I, you know, I even had a chat to one of the
staff members at the ProspectLibrary, which is joined on to
the gallery, about working withthem to set up a display of
books specifically curated forthe show.
Steph (26:56):
oh cool!
Ruby (26:58):
So that I can, you know, say, Okay, well, you've, you've
received my artwork, you canprocess that however. I've given
you a starting point of oneperspective of being a disabled
trans person in this world. Andthis is where you can go from
(27:19):
here; these are the people thatyou should be reading and
watching and supporting. Theseare the people I've learned
from. These are the people thatyou know, should be getting
platforms as well, who haveplatforms, some some of them,
Steph (27:36):
that's a great bit of co-programming. You know, here's
the continuation.
Ruby (27:41):
Exactly. Because like, often, you know, people's
response to coming up againstsomething that they're not
really familiar with, or, youknow, don't really understand
too much about is (27:54):
'well, okay, what can I do? How can I be a
better ally?' and that cansometimes get a little bit
grating on multiply marginalizedpeople who are just working hard
to survive this kind of bullshittransphobic, racist, ableist
(28:16):
world.
Steph (28:17):
Yeah.
Ruby (28:17):
And so, if I can take some of that labour and, and sort of
just like, condense it down intolike, a reading list? Yeah, at
least or something that peoplecan be like, Well, no, I'm, I
don't know if I'll be an ally.And it's like, okay, well, we've
done the work for you. Yeah,here's a literal reading list. I
(28:38):
am going to have a reading listat my exhibition. I'm not even
exaggerating. Here's a readinglist, take it and go. Go and
support these artists. Read thiswriting, read this work, consume
all of this knowledge, that Idon't own, that has been given
(28:59):
to me by other people. And, youknow, you add to it as you go,
but it's like one kind of like,it's a big, just kind of goes in
so many directions.
Steph (29:08):
Like a library of things
Ruby (29:09):
Yeah, exactly. a library of things. I think it's really
cool that we can tie it in withthat.
Steph (29:14):
Yeah. And nice to have that supporting the show. And
because I think that's one ofthose things is that yes,
there's a lot of really funaesthetics, and like you said,
borrowing from that childhoodkind of feeling. But also it is
underpinned by this greatinterconnectedness, this
community; there's a lot goingon. So to have that evident and
(29:34):
tied back...
Ruby (29:35):
Yeah.
Steph (29:36):
And um, did you there's gonna be a catalog as well?
Ruby (29:38):
Yeah, there will be currently designing a catalog
for actually yeah, I'm juststarting. I'm kind of thinking
about having pages kind of go ina rainbow order. So having like
a set up like a rainbow. Butyeah, there'll be a catalog with
some pictures of some of theworks, and I've got a couple of
(30:01):
I'm amazing disabled writersthat I'm going to be
commissioning to write somewords for the catalog.
Steph (30:08):
Amazing
Ruby (30:10):
And, yeah, we'll hopefully have like the reading list in in
there as well.
Steph (30:16):
well that'll be a great resource
Ruby (30:19):
And QR codes and things like that. Because a big part of
my practice is accessibility asan art form. And as just a way
of thinking from the beginning.So yeah, fantastic catalog is
coming along.
Unknown (30:54):
[brief upbeat musical interlude]
Steph (31:04):
And on that note of accessibility, I noticed that
you've got a lot ofconsiderations noted in the
Eventbrite listing for theexhibition from, you know, the
exhibition will be viewableonline throughout the month,
which is fantastic. And a suiteof physical, communication, and
sensory things listed. Yeah,there's a lot there.
Ruby (31:28):
Yeah, there is. As there should be. I think a big part of
my practice is, consideringaccess methods, and
accessibility of art and artwork, from the beginning stages
of any work that I create, orany kind of planning process is
thinking about (31:50):
who's going to be wanting to access this work?
And how can I facilitate that?And I guess that's where my
university education comes in,because I studied speech
pathology, and so I have apretty good understanding of
things like communicationaccess, and all of that kind of
(32:11):
stuff. And then obviously, myown, you know, physical access
needs and sensory access needs.But I think it's really
important that art is made withaccessibility at the forefront
of thinking because, I mean, ifanyone has, you know, the
privilege of aging, regardlessof whether or not they are
(32:35):
currently disabled, they willbecome disabled. And the fact
that you know, like, ableismkind of intwines into every kind
of facet of, of human existence.And it goes hand-in-hand with so
many other structures, whichuphold things like white
supremacy, and transphobia, andfat phobia, and queer phobia and
(32:58):
all of that. And I yeah, Istrongly believe in not viewing
accessibility as something thatis an add-on. I think it's
something that is considered anafterthought -if it's considered
(33:20):
at all. And often within artspaces. It's not. It's not. And,
you know, that might make somepeople uncomfortable, but it's a
fact. That's a fact is the arts,for a very long time, art spaces
have been notoriously notaccessible physically,
financially, socially,class-wise, you know. And I
(33:44):
think that it's something thateveryone should be able to
access, and make, and own, anddo, and engage with. Whether
that's being able to afford tocollect art, or being able to
afford to make art and not haveto spend all of your money and
resources -as a poor artist- onthings like bringing your own
(34:09):
access to spaces or things likethat. And so when I'm
considering things likeaccessibility, it's not just
about, you know, if I can get inthe room, even though that's one
consideration. If I can get in aroom. Most people with mobility
needs can also get into the roombecause I have quite a large and
(34:31):
heavy powered wheelchair. Butthat's not the only thing that
determines what access is orshould look like. And it's not
to say that things should or canbe universally accessible
because that's not possible.
Steph (34:47):
No, it's not.
Ruby (34:48):
because what works for one disabled person might be
completely inaccessible toanother disabled person. But
it's something that needs to beconsidered. And the only reason
that things to do withaccessibility are so costly or
supposedly so hard to find anddo is because people don't think
(35:10):
about them, they don't use them.And so those resources aren't
becoming mainstream andtherefore affordable. And people
leave it 'til the last minute.So I think there's something,
Steph (35:26):
There's something up there. Yeah.
Ruby (35:27):
Yeah. And it's, it's, I really think it's, it's time;
it's past time. It's absolutelypast time, that exhibitions, and
art spaces, and artwork, andanything to do with creative
arts, whether that's visualarts, or performing arts, or,
(35:48):
you know, whatever. It is waypast time that those spaces and
institutions be allowed toremain completely inaccessible,
and exclusive of disabled anddeaf and chronically ill people.
Particularly those who are alsopeople of colour, First Nations,
(36:08):
trans, etc. And so a big part ofwhat I wanted to provide with
this show is yes, it's going tobe pretty and cute and joyful
and happy. But it's also goingto -hopefully- encourage some
people in the industry toquestion their methods and make
(36:30):
some changes to their practiceand the way that they engage
with disabled artists; the waythat gallery spaces work to
incorporate accessibility inshows, whether that's with
things like Auslan interpretedwriting, or braille, or audio
(36:51):
description, or imagedescriptions. You know, there
are so many different thingsthat can be done. You know,
like, if I, one disabled person,am doing these things;
institutions, galleries,organizations that have access
to much more funding than I do,absolutely can do these things.
Steph (37:14):
Yeah
Ruby (37:14):
So, yeah, um, and that goes for accessing the artworks
too, which is why I'll beincorporating tactile artworks
that people can touch, sensoryartworks, I'll be building a
giant blanket fort
Steph (37:30):
[gasp]
Ruby (37:30):
that people can go inside that's going to be accessible. I
have a friend who will be doingsome Auslan descriptions of
works, because Auslan, ofcourse, is a separate language
to English. And I'll have, youknow, image descriptions and
audio descriptions. And yes,it's a lot to think about. But I
(37:53):
consider it as a part of mypractice, not as an addition to
my practice. And so that's justsomething that I weave into my
thought processes. I don't havethis list, you know, next to me
when I'm doing all my stuff.Yeah. Because I'm like, Oh,
well, I know that not everysingle piece is going to be
accessible to every singleperson. But you've got to start
(38:17):
from somewhere. And it's abouttrial and error. And, you know,
how can you creatively make yourwork more accessible? Or how can
you creatively incorporateaccessibility and access methods
without without hiding them,because it's still important to
(38:39):
incorporate those things asthings of beauty and they can be
beautiful. And I think ifdisabled people had complete
autonomy over the way thataccess was designed and
implemented in the world, itwould look fundamentally
different to what we think aboutnow.
Steph (38:57):
Isn't that's so interesting.
Ruby (38:58):
Yeah, it is, it is. I think about it all the time. And
in my work, I've done a fewfuture kind of scenario works of
designing, say, my dream loungeroom that and how access might
be incorporated into that. And Ihave representation of mobility
(39:19):
aids and disabled body parts inthe works. Because it's so, so
rare that you see thatrepresentation of those things
in Fine Arts in ways thataren't, you know, pitied or
medicalized or clinicalalized orseen as, you know, broken or
(39:43):
inspiration or...
Steph (39:45):
I feel the need to mention the disabled nudes at
this point.
Ruby (39:48):
Oh, yeah yeah yeah, disabled nudes!
Steph (39:52):
The series though, are they lino cuts?
Ruby (39:54):
No, they're not. They're digital pieces.
Steph (39:56):
They're digital prints? I'm just being indulgent now.
Ruby (39:58):
No, no, no! I did think about doing them as lino cuts, I
just haven't got around to it.Because sometimes I'll do a
piece and I'll be like, 'Oh,okay, this could actually work
well as this form'. And so whenI was doing those, I was like,
Oh, these would work well aslino cuts. But they kind of came
out of doing some sort ofstudies and -not studies but
(40:22):
like, kind of observations- ofMatisse's collage works, the
blue nudes, because I loveMatisse's work and use of colour
and shape and form andespecially with his collage
works. I actually have one ofthem tattooed on my leg.
Steph (40:41):
So good.
Ruby (40:41):
Yeah. And I didn't realize until after I had this tattoo on
my leg, that he was also adisabled artist. And there are
photos of him making work fromhis bed of painting on a huge
canvas up on the wall, I thinkI've got a photo. And I had no
(41:03):
idea until
Steph (41:04):
until after!?
Ruby (41:05):
until I googled it and I my brain just sort of imploded.
This was after I had startedmaking works for this show.
Steph (41:13):
Yeah wow yeah.
Ruby (41:14):
So I already had developed this concept of, of making work
from my room. And of course, youknow, there's also there's been
so many artists throughouthistory who have been disabled,
and you know, their disabledidentity has been erased. But
there are artists throughouthistory who have made work from
their room; you know, there areartists now making work from
(41:35):
their room. But, you know,another artist that comes to
mind is Frida Kahlo, who alsowas a disabled queer artist, and
there are photos of her makingwork in her bed as well. But
yeah, there's, here's a photo ofMatisse in his bed with this
very, very long, almost like ametre long paintbrush, and he's
(41:59):
painting a big kind ofminimalist face on his bedroom
wall. And I saw this photo and Iwas like, wow, this is, you
know, this is also anotherrepresentation of, of, you know,
he obviously had, you know,privilege and access to
resources so that he could havethis studio set up from his
(42:21):
room. But it's this kind ofdocumentation that we don't see
through history of artists,working in unconventional ways
and places and withdisabilities. And I want to
change that, you know, I want tobe able to see representation of
(42:42):
disabled existence and disabledjoy and disabled art through
history.
Steph (42:49):
Well, I dare say, you are being the change, as cheesy as
that is, and I'm very muchlooking forward to the show.
Ruby (42:57):
Yeah me too!
Steph (42:58):
I'm hoping that it will be open pretty shortly after we
publish this episode. And yeah,and I hope that people take the
time to enjoy the show and soakup the different the dynamics of
what's in it, because there's somuch packed in there.
Ruby (43:13):
So much. Yeah. And I wanted to make sure that the
show would be accessible, likeonline as well. So that, because
I have a lot of friends andpeople who follow my work from
interstate and overseas, andespecially, you know, going back
to disabled access and all thatkind of stuff to the world.
(43:34):
That's why I wanted it to beavailable online so that people
can still
Steph (43:37):
view it from their room!
Ruby (43:39):
Exactly! They can view it from their room. And I think
that's something that willresonate quite heavily with a
lot of disabled and chronicallyill people. Yeah, yeah.
Steph (43:48):
Wonderful. All right. Well, I think we'll leave it
there and let the work speak foritself.
Ruby (43:53):
Absolutely, thank you so much.
Steph (43:55):
Thanks Ruby.
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