Unlocking Salesforce: Expert Strategies for Successful SI/AE Partnerships + AMA on AI

Ready to navigate the complex world of Salesforce partnerships? Join co-hosts Josh Matthews and Vanessa Grant as they sit down with industry veterans Bobby Dornbos and Theron Stanley. You'll gain insights into the evolving Salesforce ecosystem and learn how the influx of post-COVID consultancy partners is shifting the dynamics of service quality and partnerships. This episode doesn't just stop at what you know; it pushes boundaries with practical strategies for niche market success, emphasizing the importance of relationship-building skills and risk-taking.

Discover the secrets to sustaining a successful Salesforce consulting business. Our guests share personal tales of resilience and transition, offering firsthand advice on leveraging personal networks, continuous learning, and strategic marketing. The conversation broadens to the impact of AI, illustrating how cutting-edge tools can transform your efficiency and marketability.

Don't miss out on crucial advice on building your brand and pitching your skills, especially when AI knowledge is increasingly in demand. Whether you're a budding entrepreneur or an established consultant, the insights shared will equip you with the tools needed for career growth in the tech space. Prepare to be inspired by stories highlighting the power of community support, adaptability, and lifelong learning in the ever-changing Salesforce landscape.

Episode Transcript

Announcer (00:06):
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce Career Showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.

Josh Matthews (00:21):
It's a party again, it is November 20th.
It's going to be a great showfor a lot of different reasons.
So, guys, welcome everybody toanother episode of the
Salesforce Career Show.
I'm your host, josh Matthews.
I have with me Vanessa Grant,co-host.
Go ahead and say hi, vanessa.

Vanessa Grant (00:38):
Hi everybody.

Josh Matthews (00:39):
And we've got some amazing guests.
These two are actually friends.
I know we had a mother-daughterteam on recently.
Now we've got two differentfriends and I'm going to
announce who they are in just amoment.
We're going to have a veryinteresting conversation about
Salesforce partners and theirrelationship with Salesforce,

(01:00):
and we're just going to deepdive on this.
I'm not even sure what's goingto happen in the conversation,
but I'm pretty certain it'sgoing to be magical, because I
have not yet had a singleconversation with okay, I'll
just say it, it's BobbyDoerenbos and Theron Stanley.
Welcome you guys.
I'll give you the full-blownintroduction here when we launch

(01:20):
into this segment.
But these guys I've never nothad a magical conversation with
them, so I'm very much lookingforward to I think we all are
very much looking forward tohaving this conversation.
Bobby, do me a favor and muteyour speaker.
Thanks buddy, thanks dude.
Now really important househousekeeping.
Vanessa.
You and I got together latelast week and made a big

(01:44):
decision that we're actuallygoing to be moving the live show
from X to go ahead and tellthem.

Vanessa Grant (01:49):
We're moving to LinkedIn careers Go.

Josh Matthews (01:52):
That's right.
I mean it's a career show.
Might as well be on the largestcareers career platform in the
world, Right?

Vanessa Grant (01:59):
I agree, let's do it yeah.

Josh Matthews (02:01):
I'm excited too.
It's the format's going to bethe same show.
It's going to be the same.
We are anticipating a littlebit more anticipation just
because of the broad reach.
I mean, even if you just lookat now, I don't remember how
many people you're connectedwith on LinkedIn.
Do you have that number off thetop of your head?
I?

Vanessa Grant (02:19):
think 16,100 something.

Josh Matthews (02:22):
So you got it down to the hundreds.
That's good.
And then, how many X followersdo you have?

Vanessa Grant (02:26):
Close to 10,000.

Josh Matthews (02:27):
Okay, all right, I'm about half that on X and
we're hovering around 20K onLinkedIn.
So it's like there's just morereach.
We just know more people.
You know that's 36,000 peoplethat we know, and that's just
the two of us, nevermind ourguests and friends and all this
sort of thing.
So I'm pretty stoked.
I think it's going to beinteresting to see.
It'll actually be the thirdplatform that we've operated the

(02:49):
show on, starting withClubhouse.
Yeah, clubhouse, clubhouse,those days, the COVID days, then
X.
So if you are a listener to thisprogram, to the live program,
just be aware this is the lasttime we will be having a show on

(03:10):
X, unless we run into audioproblems and outreach problems
and technical difficulties withLinkedIn audio.
I don't think we will.
So please make sure that youfollow us.
You can follow me.
Just type in Josh Matthews andLinkedIn.
I'm pretty sure I come right upto the top, especially if
you're in the ecosystem.
It should.
And Vanessa Grant.
We're super easy to find.
We're all over the place onLinkedIn.
So make sure that you follow us, yeah.

Vanessa Grant (03:32):
And we're always still going to be doing the
podcast.
So if you don't catch us live,you could always still listen to
the recording on your podcastplatform of choice.

Josh Matthews (03:41):
That's right.
That's right.
And you know it's interestingthat the vast majority of our
listeners I was just lookingtoday, the vast majority of our
listeners are actually listeningon their mobile phone.
They're listening on theiriPhone that's the most common
device that they're using andthe vast majority are actually
listening on Apple podcast.
Now, I'm a Spotify guy myself.
That's only about 15, 20% ofour listeners.

(04:02):
So, anyway, there you go Lotsof different platforms.
Those are the two biggest.
Now we're also.
Today, in addition to ourin-depth conversation with
Theron and Bobby, we are goingto be answering some of the
questions that you folks havesubmitted to us as part of this
contest.
And, vanessa, do you want torecap everyone on what's going

(04:24):
on with this contest here, howthey can enter?

Vanessa Grant (04:27):
Well, I got stuck in a client meeting the last
show, so I don't know if therules have changed, but no, we
don't change our rules.

Josh Matthews (04:35):
That would not be a rule, Rule number one don't
change the rules.

Vanessa Grant (04:39):
But we were very fortunate.
I think it's always nice whenour good work in the community
gets acknowledged, andSalesforce has decided to grace
us with five certificationvouchers.
We can't give you thecertifications, but certainly we
can enable you to get thecertifications.
We're giving away five vouchersand we'll be picking five
winners on our first LinkedInshow on December 4th.

(05:00):
Now to enter we have aquestionnaire on the site.

Josh Ma (05:05):
Salesforcecareershowcom and you submit a question.
That's right.

Vanessa Grant (05:10):
Yep, so submit a question and did we do the
double the entries thing?

Josh Matthews (05:15):
Yes, we are doubling the entries the other
way that you can have an entryyou can do one or the other, or
you can do both is to is to justgive us a review, preferably a
good one, on either ApplePodcasts or on Spotify, All of
the rules around this.
It's really it's not a lot ofrules other than rule number one
, right, it's really easy.

(05:35):
Just go to Salesforce Recruiteror sorry, that's my other
website Go to Salesforce CareerShow I'm sorry,
salesforcecareershowcom.
It's all listed right there,but basically you'll give us a
review, take a screenshot, mailit.
Email it to the address thatyou'll find on the website it's
my email address and then you'reentered, and so you can't win
more than once, but you can havetwice the entries, and while

(05:58):
we've had very good response sofar, I'm happy to tell you that
if you enter, you have a verygood chance of winning a full
voucher.
You really do.

Vanessa Grant (06:08):
Yeah, these vouchers are good for, yes, you
could use them for an associatecert, but, man, if you can
leverage this for $400 for likeone of those architect certs,
amazing, like that is high valuethere.
So, and really, of course, wewould love to see more entrants,
but, yeah, it's a good shotright now.
But also you helped the show,like we.

(06:29):
We started this because we wereanswering folks' questions in
the Salesforce career space andwe we love serving the community
in this way, Like this is whyJosh and I have teamed up, so
send us your questions and alsothe other folks that are
listening.

Josh Matthews (06:47):
Yeah, and I'll tell you.
Look, it actually has been avery good response.
I've been pleasantly surprised.
But with five vouchers to giveaway, you've got really high
odds.
So that's great, it's reallyvery good.
I will ask the reviews help usmore than anything.
We love your questions.
You can shoot those to usanytime, but the reviews are
what makes a difference.
I think we're running fivestars on Spotify, but we took a

(07:10):
big old dip on Apple because Ithink two people, three people,
put in like one star, thanksguys, but for whatever reason it
kind of tanked us for a littlebit.
It's coming back now.
So a positive review on Applewill actually give us the
opportunity to reach more people, help more people to hire, get
hired and soar higher in theSalesforce ecosystem, and with

(07:33):
that let's go ahead.
I think that's it forhousekeeping, right, I think.
So I was going to tell you guysone thing before we dive in I
think you know this, vanessa.
Before we dive in, I think youknow this, vanessa, but I did a
little mini digital nomad thingthis past month and I chucked my
golf clubs and a littlecarry-on into the back of my
little convertible and I drovenorth and stopped in Savannah,

(07:59):
outside Savannah, and I spentabout I don't know eight, nine
days in Savannah and threedifferent Airbnbs to try out
different parts of the town.
And then I went up toCharleston this was a working.
I worked full time while I didthis, by the way.
Then I went up to Charlestonand I was in Charleston for
about a week and then I gotlonely and so I flew Casey up.

(08:20):
She joined me for the remainderof the week and we enjoyed the
weekend in Charleston and thenback down to Savannah, because I
loved it so much I couldn'twait to share it with her.
And I've got to tell you I justthink Savannah is the most
charming place.
People were so polite, sofriendly.
I got to try shrimp and gritsabout 10 times because it was so

(08:42):
freaking good and I'd never hadit before and, oh my God, I
just I mean, I'd get fat on thatevery day.
It's so delicious and peoplewere so friendly.
Literally.
There were people liketeenagers.
You know, I'd park my car,going into the little
convenience store or whateverI'd be I don't know 50 feet from
the front door, and they'd seeme and they'd stand there and

(09:03):
hold the door for me, like youknow, while I trudge along
embarrassingly slow to go insideLike and that was.
That wasn't a one-time thing,that was an old time.
So the uh, the charm of theSouth was very real and
absolutely something I'd neverexperienced before, and I've
also never been away from myhouse for that long, like ever,
like if I was going to be awaylonger than three weeks, I'd

(09:25):
probably just moved somewhereelse, and that was a really
wonderful experience.
So I encourage everyone you cango back to one of our podcasts.
It's actually on the YouTubechannel, Josh Forrest, and you
can watch me interviewing AlexLapa, who gives a detailed
description of what it's like tobe a digital nomad how to
become a digital nomad, how tostart with where you're at right

(09:49):
now, working with your currentemployer and finding ways to be
tapped in and engaged in yourwork, while still getting to
explore different parts of thecountry and different parts of
the world.
So this was my first timereally doing it other than just
like, or I'm at a conference andI'm working, and I want to say
it was absolutely fantastic.
So that's all I wanted to shareabout that.

(10:09):
Anyone here been to Savannahbefore?

Vanessa Grant (10:10):
by the way, I went with my kiddo last December
.
We went on a little road tripright around there.
Yeah, because my dad lives inDelray, so we went out up to
Georgia.
I think we left out of NorthCarolina.
That's awesome.
That's awesome All out of NorthCarolina.

Josh Matthews (10:21):
That's awesome, that's awesome.
All right guys.

Vanessa Grant (10:24):
Love Savannah.

Josh Matthews (10:24):
Yeah, beautiful place we're going to dive in
right now.
We're going to be talking allthings you know partnerships and
alliances, exploring therelationship between Salesforce
partners and AEs, avps, rvps and, essentially, how to team up
between Salesforce and the SIs,the system integrators.

Vanessa Grant (10:42):
So yeah, hard pivot Let and the SIs, the
system integrators.

Josh Matthews (10:43):
So yeah, hard pivot, let's Hard pivot.
Here we go, switching, grindingthe gears.
Okay, theron Stanley, thank youfor being here.
Theron was introduced to me bya mutual friend, brandon, who
was on the show about a monthago and Theron's got 20 years in
the Salesforce ecosystem.
He's a strategic accountdirector based out of Texas.
He's with Salesforce and he'sgot a background in energy,

(11:05):
retail, customer experience andloyalty.
Go ahead and say hi, theron.
Josh, you're doing such a greatjob introing.
I just wanted to let you keepup.
Oh well, I appreciate that, butlet's not give me so much grace
next time.
Okay, you just jump right in myfriend.

Theron Stanley (11:18):
I got thrown back into the listener category
somehow, so thanks for bringingme back into the field.

Josh Matthews (11:24):
You got it, buddy .
We're like the mafia as soon asyou think you're out, we pull
you right back in.
We also have Bobby Dornbos.
Bobby and Theron, by the way,are friends they're buddies in
Texas and he is a 10-yearSalesforce ecosystem
professional.
He started his journey with ITroles from admin, pm, product
owner, and then he shifted intopre-sales engineering at

(11:44):
Salesforce back in 2016 on theenergy industry team and he
ultimately led that team.
And since the start of 2023, soalmost two years he's been back
on the delivery side with MREConsulting where he works with
Brandon.
He serves as a PM and architectfor customers and he also leads
alliances and industrygo-to-market efforts for MRE's

(12:05):
Salesforce division.
Welcome, bobby.

Bobby Dornbos (12:08):
Thanks for having me, glad to be here.

Josh Matthews (12:09):
Well, I'm just glad that your unmute button
works.

Bobby Dornbos (12:12):
Also, theron and I are neighbors too.
We live like a stone's throw,oh that's awesome.

Josh Matthews (12:17):
True story, true story, I love it.
So, guys, there are only abouta dozen topics that we could
probably dive into, but when wecaught up on Monday, we decided
that, exploring a little bitdeeper into the relationship
between Salesforce and workingdirectly with their AVPs, rvps
and so on strategic account repsthat would be a really good

(12:41):
idea.
And then, oddly enough and Idon't have it pulled up right
now, but, oddly enough,salesforce Ben don't have it
pulled up right now, but oddlyenough, salesforce Ben came out
with an article just today.
I'm going to pull it up.
He came out.
It was a good one, wasn't it?
I thought it was a reallyrobust article and you can find
it at salesforcebencom.
Does Salesforce have an issuewith bad consultancy partners?

Vanessa Grant (13:10):
I mean, can we all just nod and say yes at the
same?

Josh Matthews (13:11):
time.
What do you guys think?

Theron Stanley (13:12):
I think nodding would be ineffective for this
platform, yes, but when you moveto video, then we'll see.

Josh Matthews (13:18):
That's right.
That's right, and maybe it canhave sort of air quotes nodding,
indicating yes, that's what theAI transcription will probably
say.
So what do you think?
Let's start there.
So Salesforce has an issue withbad consultancy partners and
one of the things that I thinkwe all knew this anyway, but the
number of partners doubledpost-COVID right More than

(13:40):
doubled and it's set to growastronomically again.
When they review all thenumbers of this past year.
I can tell you, from theposition I'm in, that there are
a number of very brand newjunior consultancies that I work
with and I enjoy working with,and then there are some that I
talk to and I've interacted withand I want nothing to do with

(14:02):
them like literally nothing todo with them.
They are the partners thatcreate the problems for the
partners that I supplycandidates to come in and fix
right.
So you guys work for a veryreputable partner right now, but
what's your experience like inhaving to come in and sweep up
everyone's mistakes?

Bobby Dornbos (14:21):
Well, I'll start First off.
I think it was just a productof how big of a gold rush the
Salesforce ecosystem was for solong right On the Salesforce
side.
I got in when they were growinglike wildfire.
I was a people leader duringthat, especially going into
COVID where we were hiring twoto three folks per quarter or
per year.
Then all that shifted right Alot of layoffs across Salesforce

(14:45):
, other tech companies and theirdelivery ecosystems and now I
think it's just right-sizingacross the board.
Right, I know Salesforce iswith Data Cloud and AgentForce.
They're growing and scaling upagain.
Hopefully they do it a littlebit more intelligently, but I
think it's just right-sizing andI think you're getting down to
the consultancies and the peoplethat are successful in this

(15:06):
ecosystem are the ones that arethe hard workers, they're the
smart ones, they're the onesthat are going to stand the test
of time.

Josh Matthews (15:11):
So don't you think there's crappy?

Bobby Dornbos (15:14):
ones that stand the test of time too, I mean
that's the problem.

Josh Matthews (15:18):
It's not a perfect Darwinian meritocracy
here.

Vanessa Grant (15:20):
Yeah, because they work for less.

Josh Matthews (15:23):
Yeah, because, look, this is the problem with
all quotes.
Right, I got a quote onpainting the inside of my house.
I took the lowest one.
Look, they did a good job.
It took them forever.
A company could have done it ina half a day and these guys
took three weekends or somethinglike that.
So we have a saying in generalin my industry, but I'm
confident that it exists in allindustries and in the article.

(15:49):
They say you can get it donequickly, you can get it done
with high quality or you can getit done with low cost.
Pick two, right.
So the low cost, done quickly,really results in a lot of poor
quality and the good news is itcreates a lot of work for the
good companies.

Bobby Dornbos (16:07):
A lot of hours yeah.

Josh Matthews (16:08):
Yeah, but unfortunately it creates a lot
of sourness in the ecosystem andgives room for competitors of
Salesforce to slide in, right?
I mean, I talk to companiesevery single week that say, look
, we've got this, we've had itfor a year.
It sucks, can you help us?
We don't even know what's goingon.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
We've got this, we've had itfor a year.
It sucks.
Can you help us?
We don't even know what's goingon.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And we get someone in, they fixit and it's fine.

(16:30):
But talk to me about that.
What are you guys seeing in themarket?

Theron Stanley (16:34):
Yeah, I'm happy to chime in here from a
Salesforce perspective.
Yes, we see all flavors ofthose scenarios right.
I believe what makes a goodpartner for me to bring in to my
customers or to partner with atmy customers is one that
communicates really well withthe account team and with the

(16:54):
customer.
Think about it as like athree-headed snake or a trifecta
.
When everybody's on the samepage and very well connected
like Bobby and I are thoseprojects have a very high
success rate.
You get happier customers allthe way around, and I think that
when we do see a project notwork out very well, usually one

(17:15):
of those elements is missing.

Josh Matthews (17:17):
How often is it the customer?
How often is the customergetting in their own way?

Theron Stanley (17:22):
I don't have a percentage, but I would say
often that is the case right.
Many times we're dealing withclients who are rolling out
something brand new.
They don't have experience withit and so all the more
importance for them to build uptheir own staffing models.
Well, right, Call it a COE, acenter of excellence, center of
expertise.
That becomes a very importantpart of success long-term.

(17:45):
And to have that plan and towork with their partners, like
MRE for example, to kind ofdevelop those centers of
expertise for long-term success,not just for a project duration
.

Vanessa Grant (17:57):
So can I ask then what responsibility do you
think Salesforce has as far astheir account executives to
prepare their potential futureclients for what it will take to
maintain Salesforce properly?

Theron Stanley (18:12):
I believe the responsibility can fall heavily
on Salesforce.
At least that's the way Ioperate and I've seen a lot of
very successful projects gothrough.
Salesforce has its ownprofessional services, so
sometimes you have a fourth kindof cornerstone there, that kind
of works alongside of partnersas well.

Josh Matthews (18:31):
Bobby, what do you think about?
I mean having been or being ina partner right now and I don't
know if you've been working withthe exact same, the exact same
AE and, by the way, is it Theron, I mean?
Is that your contact?
Is he the one that I work?

Bobby Dornbos (18:47):
with yes, I mean I work with a ton.
There's a ton of accountdirectors.

Josh Matthews (18:59):
Okay, okay.
What do you do?
What advice would you give to acustomer that was feeling like
the AE just wasn't getting it?

Bobby Dornbos (19:02):
Well, first and foremost sorry, Theron, they're
probably right Right, you needto understand that the account
executive is the relationshipowner and their job when it
comes to meeting the customer'sneed is to bring their matrix
team, their resources in toreally advise and enable that
customer Right.
So a lot of folks they canblame their account director oh,

(19:23):
you're just a sales guy andthat's correct.
That's how Salesforce works.
But they also have an amazingteam at their disposal to get
the customer exactly what theyneed, from customer success to
technical architects, to allsorts of pre-sales business
value experts.
Believe me, salesforce will backup the Brinks truck with
resources if you show them thatyou're serious about digital

(19:44):
transformation or a specificproject or a specific product.
So all the resources are there.
I would say definitely forcustomers.
You need to come together withboth functional and technical
people in these conversations asearly as possible.
Have your IT partners in theconversations, even the
introductory conversationsyou're having with Salesforce

(20:04):
sellers, so that you can showSalesforce that you guys are
aligned and serious and that youcan easily call bluff of
Salesforce just trying topotentially just push easy
products to you without thatkind of due diligence.
Sure.

Vanessa Grant (20:18):
So how would you suggest that folks do
demonstrate to Salesforce thatthey're really serious?
What are the things thatclients can you know, and
customers of Salesforce can doto get access to these resources
and show that they arecommitted to success with
Salesforce?

Bobby Dornbos (20:35):
Oh, salesforce is there and interrupt me if I'm
wrong.
But Salesforce is alwayswilling to give those, give
those resources up.
They're looking for signals,right?
You give them.
You open them up forinformation like how many users
are we talking about?
Come with your use case wellthought out.
Have your own business plan forwhat you want your future state
to look like.
That will help Salesforce sizetheir opportunity and their

(21:00):
investment to helping you.
Potentially they will bring apartner or, if you have a
partner, they will work withthem as well.
The more information you'rewilling to share, the better it
goes.
But of course there's thispolitical tug of war and when it
comes to enterprise softwareand the procurement of that, it
gets in the way a little bit.
But I understand it.
It's business, but astransparency and understanding

(21:22):
that there is mutual value inthe use case that you're trying
to solve, if you call Salesforceand say, hey, come, show us
field service, they'll come andshow you and they'll try to
bring you the use cases and I'veseen that so many times where
if the customer is really unsureabout why they're even
interested in something,salesforce will sell you.
They will find a way to sellyou something.

(21:44):
So, being firm on what it isyou're trying to solve and
making that quantifiable beforeyou even get into the deal cycle
.
That's going to help both sides.

Josh Matthews (21:53):
I totally agree, yeah.
I saw Vanessa laughing on thatone because that's like, yeah,
dude, ba BA work right.

Vanessa Grant (22:01):
Also, if you don't know why you're calling
Salesforce, they will find areason for that.
Oh work, right.
Also, if you don't know whyyou're calling Salesforce, they
will find a reason for that.
They'll find the product.

Josh Matthews (22:09):
They'll find the use case for you.
I found the product for you.
It's called Data Cloud andField Service and let's See and
a couple other things.

Bobby Dornbos (22:17):
It gets very.
It's so overbearing for us inthis ecosystem that Salesforce
sells so well, but they're justa machine.
They will find a way and theyhave all sorts of resources to
help do this.
So customers just got to besmarter.

Vanessa Grant (22:29):
So, to that end, bobby, I would love to, and
Theron, of course, I would loveto hear your takes.
And sorry, Josh, for takingthis over, I'm just like so into
it.

Josh Matthews (22:38):
Are you kidding me?
I'm so glad that you're doingthis.
I blabbed too much on this.
Keep going.

Vanessa Grant (22:46):
So I know that it can be that challenge between
finding the balance ofSalesforce supporting your
implementation versus a partnerlike a Salesforce S system
integrator supporting yourSalesforce org.
Salesforce has premium support,like they're really pushing
signature success these days.
Where's that balance and whenshould you start engaging with

(23:06):
NSI versus engaging with likesignature success or something
like that?
When do you bring that partnerin and when can they support you
?

Bobby Dornbos (23:14):
with Salesforce.
Aaron, you go ahead.
I've got to take here, but Iwant to let you talk.

Theron Stanley (23:18):
Again, it all starts with a plan.
From kind of my perspective,our signature success teams are
great, but they're only as goodas communication.
So they're definitely anotherelement that we have worked side
by side with partners, with thecustomers, to figure out what
is the right solution to make upthe long-term objective.
Bobby, would you agree withthat?

Bobby Dornbos (23:40):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a little bit deeper,
because I think that you have tolook at you as a customer.
What capabilities do you havein-house and what do you want to
have in-house?
Because a lot of times there'sa lot of folks, there's a lot of
organizations out there thatdon't want to staff up and build
Salesforce COEs because theydon't want to have to let people
go if the environment changesright.

(24:00):
So they like tapping into thatbillable model where they can
just pull resources off theshelf when they need them and
that works.
I just I think that when itcomes to a partner like whenever
your business requires alsothat industry advisory piece, in
addition to just give me somepeople that are certified and
have, like the capacity and thecapability to implement this

(24:21):
product, if I give you therequirements, they know how to
build the solution,understanding and taking that
industry perspective to it, sothat you can try and
future-proof the way you'rebuilding this thing.
That's where what I've enjoyedon the consulting side and me
joining MRE it had a lot to dowith that as well.
They were huge in this energyutilities manufacturing domain,
in addition to buildingSalesforce and other technology

(24:43):
practices.
I've always thought that if youhad the trends in your head,
like you know where thisindustry is going, you know what
other competitors and peers inindustry are doing with this
given technology, you're goingto help the customer make the
right decision versus justrolling out a great field
service or CPQ solution justbased off of a customer's
requirements.

(25:03):
So I think that if you're acustomer that you want to tap
into that industry expertise, Ithink that typically has to come
from a partner, because they'rethe folks that are paid to look
at the entire market andSalesforce does have that in
some areas.
But to have that real intimateinvestment for your specific

(25:24):
solution, your tactical project,your strategic roadmap, I think
that's really where it mattersmost for the SIs.

Josh Matthews (25:31):
Let me ask you guys something, and we kind of
touched on this the other day alittle bit.
Sometimes, particularly withthese smaller SI partners, they
will go all in right.
They'll heavily invest inattracting the very best talent.
They might even use me to bringin some badass people because
they've got a projection of acertain quantity of business

(25:53):
based on the relationship thatthey have with the AE or with
the AVP, and then, just throughno wrongdoing of their own, the
spigot just gets turned off onthem.
And I've seen this you know thisisn't an every month or every
week thing, but I have seen thiswhere, whatever the February
shuffle happens and someone getsa new AE and they're coming in

(26:14):
on that territory or with thatclient list and they've already
got their people right, and sothis company that's built up,
this relationship, loses thatrelationship, has to build a new
one, and preference is given tothe new AEs' favorites.
And it's perfectly fine, right,I have favorites, so fair

(26:36):
enough.
But what would you say aboutthat?
And it's just like kind, likethe scaffolding around that,
like how that operates.
And have you seen that before?
Where smaller, growing SIs cansuffer due to February shuffle.

Bobby Dornbos (26:50):
Oh yeah, that's good, bad and ugly, right Like
good.
If you're on the right side ofit and you've nurtured your
relationships and you getbrought into new customers and
new projects, that's great.
The space where Theron and Ihave collaborated the most is in
enterprise right, massiveaccounts, hundreds and thousands
of employees where I find thatdoesn't happen very much,
because the customer politicsand the customer relationships

(27:12):
are what drive you right, like,oh, if you have a big four in
there that does a lot of yourtechnology work across like well
, well, salesforce, you're goingto have to work with this
partner.
And hey, mre, if you want in onthis, you're going to have to
white label through these guysand build your own relations.

Josh Matthews (27:24):
Sure, that happens all the time.

Bobby Dornbos (27:26):
Yeah, certainly a different lens there.

Josh Matthews (27:28):
What about you, Theron?
What do you think?

Theron Stanley (27:30):
I agree exactly with what Bobby said.
Right, no two companies anddecisions and projects are the
same.
The continuity is veryimportant For me personally.
As an enterprise accountdirector, I've been very
fortunate to work with some ofmy customers for nearly my
entire time here at Salesforce,even through promotions role
changes, things like that but itis a reality, because good

(27:54):
people get promoted, they getmoved around and sometimes they
want to go do somethingdifferent, and then the customer
is still there.
So I think this is wherepartners become that connective
fabric for them to continue tohave success long-term.

Bobby Dornbos (28:07):
Sure yeah, and it also speaks to the fact that
even if you're a technicalresource on a given project with
a customer, we're all sellers.
Right?
Build those relationships, gettight with your customers so
that an account executive orsome sales change of hands after
the ant pile gets kickeddoesn't determine your fate,
right?
That's something that I'velearned being with a small

(28:28):
consultancy is that relationshipbuilding at all times matters
just as much as your project.
That's maybe not true a lot ofthe times, but that's the way I
see it sometimes Be too good tolet go.

Josh Matthews (28:39):
Well, yeah, of course.
Now, let's say, a partner, evena midsize partner, is trying to
woo an AE and this happens,right?
I mean, there's a lot of youngones I hear all the time yeah,
they get front row Knickstickets or they get a box at a
Cubs game or something like thatI've heard I'm not even going

(29:00):
to say it, you guys, I told youthe other day I've heard some
really nasty stuff.
Right, I can't even believe it,I know, but I have heard
stories that would anyone outthere with an imagination just
imagine how do you get moreairplay in 1978 for your band?
How do you do that?
Well, think about what youwould have to do, what you would
have to do, what you would haveto send and what you would have

(29:20):
to give to all of these discjockeys.
Right, it's like that, and I'msure there's no formula, because
we've got six-year-old senioraccount executives, we've got
27-year-old AEs.
Everyone's a little bitdifferent, but there's a lot of.
It seems like there's arequirement for a lot of steak
dinners and basketball games orsomething, or am I wrong?

(29:41):
Like is it?
Is that not a real thing?
You guys have to unmute toanswer.
Yeah, let me know.
What do you think?

Theron Stanley (29:47):
Yeah, it's, it is a real thing, in fact, for
any background noise, I'm on myway to Houston rocket suite
tonight.

Josh Matthews (29:54):
There you go and who bought those?
Tickets.
Who bought those tickets?
Well, salesforce.

Theron Stanley (29:59):
Salesforce.
It's a Salesforce event, but wehave partners as part of this
right?

Bobby Dornbos (30:03):
Yeah, aaron, I didn't get my ticket.
Just leave it at Will Call.
I'm on my way, will do Wow.

Josh Matthews (30:10):
I'm so glad you guys fit us in on your awesome
basketball.
It's funny that I even broughtup basketball and look at you
guys.

Vanessa Grant (30:22):
I feel, like I didn't get enough perks when.
I was a customer.
I only got like a I think an AEgot me coffee once Congrats.

Theron Stanley (30:26):
Coffee is for closers, and sometimes from
closers.

Bobby Dornbos (30:29):
Yeah, I see a lot more like where I guess MRE
potentially a little bit moreconservative.
But yeah, we do entertain ourcustomers and sporting events
and things like that.
But, as I'm finding out on theAlliance side a lot of it, if
I'm making a new relationshipwith an AE or a customer at a
workshop, something like that,you do have to come and bring

(30:50):
something right.
You can't just show up and say,hey, I'm good at this use case,
introduce us to your customerright.
You have to create an eventthat is mutually beneficial,
whether it's a dinner, whetherit's coming with, like an
accelerator, something that canmake their project go faster,
and it's just.
You just have to be of the mindthat, like, there's got to be
mutual benefit here.
They're trying to make revenue,you're trying to make revenue,

(31:12):
the customer has their own KPIsthat are trying to drive with a
project.
So, again, like that, thatawareness will help you realize
that you do need to invest inthese relationships, albeit a
little bit cheap, when you sayI've got the best people, so
just hire us.

Josh Matthews (31:24):
Yeah, right.
Well, I mean, I know kickbacksare not allowed, but I think
they happen, don't you think youthink kickbacks happen?
Little woo, little way, littlegrift on the side, what do you
think you think?

Theron Stanley (31:37):
it happens.
I don't see it so much in thisindustry, but I would add that
when it comes to events, wheredid we meet Josh?

Josh Matthews (31:45):
We met at Dreamforce Right.

Theron Stanley (31:48):
So those are oftentimes really good times for
us to connect not only with ourcustomers, with partners, to
introduce our customers topartners.
Bobby and I did a lot of thatat Dreamforce this year and to
Bobby's point, I think I don'twant to.
I want to underscore what hesaid, and that is partners that
bring value, because I have avery large network of friends

(32:08):
and customers and formercustomers and partners and
LinkedIn.
I'm only about 5,000, not nearwhere you are, josh.
I strive to get there.

Josh Matthews (32:17):
Well, you don't have to be where I am.
Man, You're not a headhunter,it's totally cool.
This is not it's a weird thingand I've been doing it.
I think I started about 799million people ago on LinkedIn,
right?
So it's fair.
It should be 100,000, based onwhat you think it should be.

Theron Stanley (32:33):
Yeah, and even given that, like me, is working
for Salesforce, I probably don'tgo a day without somebody
reaching out wanting to partner.
The difference is when acompany brings a point of view
hey, we're working with thesecustomers, we've put these
solutions in, we'd love to havea conversation.
Or, even better, if they'realready engaged at a customer,

(32:53):
like Bobby's company is with oneof my clients, and that's where
things become very valuable andthe partnership really works.

Josh Matthews (33:02):
Yeah, let me ask you something, because I'm
looking for just a little bit ofpractical recommendation, and
I'm thinking of a specificpartner here.
Think about a 30 person, 30person company, okay, and
they're growing, and they'vebeen growing steadily.
They've probably grown 30% lasttwo, three years.
Is there a percentage of theirbudget that they should be

(33:23):
dedicating simply to these typesof mutually beneficial events?
That will help support boththeir relationship with their
AEs and AVPs, but also with thecustomers too.
Should it be 1% of their budget?
A?
lot of these companies don'thave a budget for this stuff,
you know.

Bobby Dornbos (33:41):
Right right.
Can I ask how they grew or whatthey would say?
How they grew?
30%, if you okay.

Josh Matthews (33:47):
If you this is, I almost don't want to answer
because it's self-serving,because I did ask this client
how they grew so well and hisanswer was well, you guys, you
know, brought in like 10, 15amazing people and they do such
an incredible job thatSalesforce keeps giving us
business.
So that's my self-servinganswer.
I'm sure it's a lot more thanthat.

Bobby Dornbos (34:09):
No, I mean Mary, grows by their reputation.
For sure.
That's a great way, especiallyfor the small firms, to grow,
and I don't even think that Iwould say it's a percentage of a
budget.
I think you just need to bevery opportunistic in your
locale that you operate.
I don't know if they're fullyremote or whatever, but again, I
said, with MRE we've beendoubled down on the Houston

(34:31):
market, whether that'shealthcare, energy and utilities
, and definitely we have thiscommodity trading energy big
advisory brand to us.
So you have to be opportunisticwhen, like from a Salesforce
practice, when those thingsoverlap, like on the Venn
diagram, right, like if there'sa Salesforce event in Houston or
we have a world tour in Dallascoming up, let's swarm that and

(34:53):
make sure to leverage all of ourrelationships.
Host a dinner, host a happyhour to show them that we know
Texas, we know energy, we knowenergy, we know this market and
we know Salesforce.
So that's not something we'vebeen budgeting all year.
They just announced these worldtours based off of agent force
like out of thin air.
So we had to really rally andgo.
We didn't have a budget.
We made it happen.
We needed to invest here andnow and I think you need to be a

(35:16):
little bit more grassrootsguerrilla warfare tactics when
you're that small right, becauseI think that you're going to
see diminishing returns if yousay we're setting aside 15% of
our budget to go do these thingsand we're just going to have
them on the calendar and hope weget some people that show up.
You have to be more agile.
You don't want to waste yourmoney.

Josh Matthews (35:33):
Yeah, don't spend 90 grand on a booth when you've
only got got five people in thecompany and no one can go have
meetings.
You know all you're doing ispassing out swag.

Bobby Dornbos (35:40):
That's not going to turn into any kind of
business yeah, right, I wouldsay, dabble in like like start
easy, start light things likewebinars that you can invite
existing customers to, and thenstart branching out just date
dinners like little things thatwork, yeah, and then expand upon
those instead of just, well,accenture, did this so.
So I better try and do it toour scale and that's not going

(36:03):
to work.

Josh Matthews (36:03):
You know it's interesting.
There are so many styles ofsalesperson right, and when I
think about salespeople, I meanthere are just you know about 50
different archetypes of themright, and some of them are just
as they said in, like I thinkit was in Wall Street, like, oh,
he gives really good lunch orsomething like that.
He gives great meeting.
I've got friends in theecosystem.

(36:25):
They are the kings of steakdinners.
They'll take out a group ofpeople, they will wine and dine
them, they will engage, theywill be giving them value during
the dinner as well, not justfood, and they're so good at it.
Other people just don't havethe same battery for that kind

(36:46):
of you know three hour.
They'll hang out, kind ofcommunication style.
Do you know what I mean?
Others are like let me get onthe phone, let me close, let's
get on zoom, let's lock it down.
You what I mean?
So it really depends on thestyle of how you operate.

Bobby Dornbos (37:02):
as many buffoons I've met in that role in my
career.
It is definitely a verydifficult role and it is really
special when you see ones thatare great, doing what you, what
you can't, like thatrelationship building in that
way and being able to keep thesocial battery up and be able to
navigate the politics of acustomer and a relationship.

(37:23):
It's a skill and it alsoremember it comes with a massive
amount of risk tolerance to dothat job.
So it's a special recipe whenit's done right and I think that
guys like Theron are some ofthe best at it.
I don't think an agent willever do what Theron is able to
do with some of those customerrelationships will ever do what
Theron is able to do with someof his customer relationships.

Josh Matthews (37:40):
Oh yeah, I can see that, look, you guys are
just, you know what, you guysare just so swell, you really
are, you're swell.

Vanessa Grant (37:49):
The bee's knees.

Josh Matthews (37:50):
You're the bee's knees pal.

Bobby Dornbos (37:52):
I had to be nice because I called them buffoons.

Theron Stanley (37:55):
Bobby, your tickets are waiting for you at.

Josh Matthews (37:57):
Wilk Too funny.
Vanessa, you've worked at apartner.
What's some insight that you'dlike to get from Bobby and
Theron about?
You know, maybe has anythingshifted in the last couple of
years?
That kind of stuff.

Vanessa Grant (38:09):
Well, actually I would be interested as a person
who is possibly consideringstarting an NSI.
So I've been doing freelancelately so maybe you guys can
answer my career question.
I'm curious to hear how I guessabout the partner program and
how that impacts yourrelationship with Salesforce.

(38:31):
When is it worth becoming anofficial Salesforce partner?
Because I have heard mixedthings about it, like I've heard
somebody call it a pyramidscheme and I have no idea why
you would even call it that.
But understanding that you knowthe partner program a little
bit would be helpful.

Bobby Dornbos (38:48):
Yeah, so I'm getting up to speed on a lot of
that.
I'm not as sophisticated as Icould be, but I'm getting better
all the time.
Kudos to you for goingfreelance.
When I left Salesforce, therewas no that thought crossed my
mind for maybe five secondsAgain.
The risk tolerance, the pressure, the anxiety of having to do
the selling and the delivery.
I just did not want to do allthat, so I hitched my wagon to a

(39:12):
small firm.
Right, I didn't want to go to abig firm.
I didn't want to be like on thebench or be in an ocean of
people not understand where Istood.
I basically went to a practicewhere I knew three or four
people that had an amazingreputation and that I knew were
just incredibly smart, and so ifthey're there, it must make
sense.
I kind of am a fast follower inthat way.

(39:34):
So I went to a firm like thatand they weren't really
investing too much in the, inthe partner resources and the
scorecard and all the stuffthat's on that side.
They got it stood up, they werea partner, but they were not yet
Ridge level, and now we'vegrown to that level, and so what
I get to do is now learn how alot of that works and see how

(39:55):
sophisticated the partnerprogram is and how you get
resources, and also see, likethe realities of like you're not
going to get the same level ofsupport as, like a PwC or
Deloitte.
When you have a problem and youlog your case right, You're not
going to.
There's a reality to it.
But I think that Salesforcedoes a pretty good job helping
you self serve yourself andproviding you pathways to get

(40:15):
resources and enablement for youto do that stuff.
So I'm proud of the Salesforceecosystem in that way.
But I will also still say thatmy firm and, being a small firm,
being a freelancer, yourrelationships are really much
more valuable and important thanall that, because, at the end
of the day, that's what's goingto sell the work.

Josh Matthews (40:36):
No, one's going to door knock for you, right?
I mean, you've got to do ityourself at that base level.

Bobby Dornbos (40:42):
And I think, vanessa, like at your point in
your career in this ecosystem,you've got the know-how, you
have people that trust you.
I think that you know it'd be abear to really start it up,
start your own firm up, unlessyou had a lot of people that you
were willing to take on withyou and like be a part of that
brand.
Like you could get somethinggoing.

(41:02):
But you got to be able to gowork day one, right, you got to
be ready to sell.
You can't just think about whatyou want to do with the
business.
You got to get going quickly.
So that's how did you do it?
How do you do it as afreelancer?
How do you keep your pipelinerich?

Vanessa Grant (41:15):
I think for me and you know, maybe this is a I
don't know if I've shared it,but a good story to share anyway
I feel like I've spoken so muchin this ecosystem over the last
few years about the power ofnetworking and I don't know that
I really felt it personallycome into action until I lost my
job in August.

(41:35):
I had I've been laid off twicein my life Once was in 2017 and
once was this past August and in2007,.
When I got laid off, I felt likeI was alone in the world, like
I was a customer at the timeSalesforce customer so I didn't
realize that being a Salesforceprofessional within an
organization where you're acustomer, you're kind of on an

(41:55):
island, so you're not spendingas much time unless you're
actively doing it networkingwith folks that are actually in
your industry, because you endup thinking that your industry
is finance or media or whateverit is, when really you are a
Salesforce professional.
So I spent a lot of the timebetween 2017 and this year doing
a lot of networking and when Iput up my post in August with

(42:19):
really actionable bullet pointson how people could support me
through my layoff, I receivedwell over a hundred LinkedIn
messages and work just landed inmy inbox and that, for me, was
the evidence of all thenetworking that I've done over
the years.
The 16,000 LinkedIn followersthat I'm like I don't know.
Does anybody even read my postLike they?

(42:41):
They read my post and, whateverall of my public learning had
inadvertently branded me as anexpert in the particular area
that I'm an expert in.
I and I love Salesforcebusiness analysis and a lot of
people know it and a lot ofpeople want to pay me to do it.
So I kind of accidentally I'man accidental freelancer and
just work showed up.

Bobby Dornbos (43:02):
I love to hear that I also empathize.
When I left Salesforce in 2020or whatever, that was because of
the massive, like 10,000 personriff, so I that's my layoff and
Boyd does that and you canempathize with me.
Boyd, does that really pressuretest your, your network, right,
my network is your network.
You really find out who yourride or dies are in those
moments and, yeah, I have MRE tothank for that and the people

(43:25):
that I met through that.
But anyways, congrats on whereyou are now.

Josh Matthews (43:29):
I think it's really important here.
Yeah, Vanessa, you've doneawesome.
I was going to jump in realquick and say oh, the best way
to get clients is just announceon LinkedIn that you lost your
job.
Just announce on LinkedIn thatyou lost your job.
Don't do that, If you'relistening.
Don't do that unless you'reVanessa Graham.
What happens is every businesshas sort of an initial lift from
our network and after thatinitial lift, things kind of

(43:51):
calm down a little bit and thenbegins the work of marketing.
Right, so not all clients willstay with you forever.
Right, you will finish the workfor them and they'll move on.
And then you need to get moreclients and so there's that
initial burst of relationships,that connections, network that

(44:12):
can sort of fund your new career, right, but any small business
oftentimes like it happened withme, I left.
I left Robert Half, I was vicepresident there.
I was like, okay, I'm going.
Like it happened with me, Ileft Robert Half, I was vice
president there.
I was like, okay, I'm going tostart my own thing.
I've done it before, I'm goingto start my own thing again.
And I said to myself look, if Ican get a quick deal, like
right away, I'll exit thisFortune 500 company and this
great job that I have.

(44:33):
And I did.
And I got a deal with my friend, Colin McKean, who has a 20
person law practice in Portland,and they needed an amazing ops
manager and I found him.
He's still there.
This is now over six years he'sstill there and it gave me just
enough confidence and enoughcash to like, okay, launch, like

(44:53):
, let's go.
And then comes the grind right,the serious grind of building
out all of your marketing,building out all of your systems
, and every partner that growshas to go through this.
Now, sometimes they get lucky.
They land a big deal, they landa big client, a friend of a
friend, or however.
They pull it off, but all of asudden they need 10 resources,
right, or they need 15 resourcesand they get a partner who can

(45:16):
dump some cash in to help coverthe 45-day delay on getting
their checks in to pay theirstaff.
You can do that, but oftentimeswhen that happens and I've seen
this at least a dozen timessomeone splits off.
They go do their thing.
They land a big deal, they hire10, 15 people, whether they're
offshore or not, and thensomething happens to the economy

(45:38):
and they lose that client andtherefore they lose the business
because they're not spread,they're not diversified across
multiple clients, right?
I mean it's business 101.
Don't you know, if your clientgets a cold, you know you'll get
pneumonia, right?
So you got to be really carefulwith that.
So I would say, you know, it'sone thing to start and launch
and be a consultant, and I thinkthat's a very freeing thing,

(46:01):
but once you start getting intothe place of like HR and 401ks
and marketing department ormarketing vendors and things
like that, your billable hoursgo way down.
So then you have to hiresomeone who can run this stuff.
Do you see what I mean?
Like it's a real tricky thingto tier up and level up.

Bobby Dornbos (46:22):
Basically, hell, yeah, yeah.
So I'm 40 plus hours a weekbillable to customers.
On top of that, I do partneralliances.
Outside of that, I do businessdevelopment.
And then I do industry, go tomarket, like content creation,
things like that.
These are all jobs at biggerconsultancies right.
Bigger firms, bigger companies.

(46:43):
It can be frustrating thatthose aren't roles at MRE, but I
also love it because it is it'sjob security.
It shows that we are runninglike lean and conservative right
.
Like I think that that's a newbalance, that a lot of new SI
are coming up, especially ifthey're pure play Salesforce
firms.
They're having to reallyrationalize that.
Like I love that I could hirethis specialist to just do my

(47:06):
partner alliances right, like Ihired this one person that's
done that.
But also, what if I could alsobuild that resource out right,
because that alliance work isn'ta full-time job or maybe they
don't have to be talking topeople all day every day.
So that balance and reallyunderstanding it is pretty
critical.
Because you think about growingI want to hire more people, do
more projects, do more this, domore that, and then exactly what
you're talking about what ifthe economy doesn't sustain that

(47:28):
growth?
And then you gotta scale down.
So I think having a mindset ofvery conservative growth is
actually super helpful, albeitmaybe not as sexy and exciting
sometimes.

Josh Matthews (47:37):
I'll tell you guys, I still want to create
like a super group practicesomeday, Like I think it would
be the coolest thing.
I feel like I literally feellike I know some of the smartest
, brightest, most capable peoplein the ecosystem.
Not all of them, I don't knoweverybody, but I know enough of
them.
I feel like gosh.
I'd love to just push a button,bring them all together.

(47:58):
A lot of them have smallpractices.
Just create like a, like asuper group.
You know, I think that thatwould be a really cool thing.
I just don't know how to do itbecause I'm not smart, but I
think it would be really cool.

Bobby Dornbos (48:08):
That's how that conversation always goes.
I can't wait to do that.

Josh Matthews (48:10):
I just don't know how to do it, so anyways, yeah
right, because I'll stick thehead hunting Guys any last
advice and, by the way, theshow's not wrapping up.
I want everyone to know that weare going to be answering some
of your questions, our audiencequestions.
We have a number of themtonight, but I wanted, just on
this partner conversation, whathaven't we covered that people

(48:31):
should know?

Bobby Dornbos (48:32):
I liked that.
Yesterday we talked a littlebit about and I'm sorry, theron,
this isn't really your worldeither but like Vanessa and I,
she's a freelancer.
I just worked for a partner andwe were talking about what
happens when that relationshipthat you have, that landed, like
MRE at a customer or whateverfirm at a customer.
What if you leave or thecustomer changes?
What happens to the customer inthat relationship with the firm

(48:53):
?
That's not you and like, how doyou pick which partner you go
to?
And I think that for any of thefolks out there looking to go to
a big or small Salesforce, sior be a freelancer, you just
have to understand, like thebrand, like you want to be able
to instill your brand at theseplaces, right, like when I chose
not to go with a big four, itwas because I didn't know that

(49:17):
I'd be able to impact mycustomers.
I felt like I would lose myrelationships, I wouldn't be on
the front of that versus with asmaller firm of people that I
trust and very like intelligent.
I knew we do good work and wewere affordable.
We checked all those boxes that, if I left, that relationship
would still sustain because ofthe good work that we were doing
.
So I think it's just it goesback to that surround yourself

(49:39):
with people that you know dogood work, kind of idea.

Josh Matthews (49:42):
Yeah, I think that's super critical.
There is an article I pennedfor Salesforce Ben.
It's called the what is it?
The career checklist.
I think that's what it's called, the career checklist.
I got to look it up.
But if you go to Salesforce Ben, it's absolutely everything you
really need to know so that youcan make a good decision on
which partner you want to join.
Right?
This isn't for clients tofigure out which partner

(50:03):
although it doesn't hurt for aclient to do this as well but if
you're someone who wants to beemployed by a consulting firm in
the Salesforce ecosystem, Idefinitely recommend checking
out this article.
It's called the SalesforceCareer Checklist which
Salesforce partner to join?
It's about a year and a halfold, but it's still very

(50:23):
relevant, so definitely checkthat out.
Theron, any final thoughts onthis partner topic?
What can people do to have abetter relationship where their
AEs are to stand out, aside fromjust being badasses, right?
Aside from just deliveringquality and having a great
reputation doing what you sayyou're going to do and all of
those other things?

(50:43):
But you've sat in on thesemeetings where you're sitting
there and you're looking atmeeting one, meeting two,
meeting three, partner fourright, there's something that's
happening in those conversationsand in those meetings that one
of them is doing better than theothers.
What is that?

Theron Stanley (50:58):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think you have all, vanessa,josh, bobby kind of touched on
something really important.
It is brand and it's be aserial connector, which I think
all of us are right Stayconnected with the ecosystem and
bring fresh ideas.
So, from an AE perspective,bring me fresh ideas.
Josh, you do a great job ofthis right.

(51:20):
You sent me some folks that arecoming up off project that
might be a good fit for mycustomers.
That's the kind of stuff that Ineed, kind of things that my
customers need.
Bobby mentioned his companyright has very special, unique
skill sets and a history of verysuccessful projects and trading
.
All of my customers engage inthat, so that helps me to open

(51:41):
up conversations.
Thank you so much If I were tobring it back full circle for
the promo that you mentioned atthe beginning getting your
certifications and actually notjust being a talking head in the
room stacking your Salesforcecertifications.
Whether you are going theentrepreneurial path, you want
to get in with a small firm orone of the big four, those

(52:04):
things are very important andthat's one of the great things
about the Salesforce ecosystemthat you don't find in other
software companies.

Josh Matthews (52:10):
I think it's the most incredible thing I've ever
seen in the tech space isTrailhead.
I mean, I stand by that.
There's always controversyaround it.
There was controversy in theSalesforce Ben article.
I think Mike Martin, who helpsto run Florida Dreamin that we
ran a podcast from just a monthor two months ago was one of the

(52:31):
people who contributed someknowledge to that article.
One of the things they said islike getting Salesforce
certifications is easy.
Learning how to be a goodconsultant is hard and I'm not
going to 100% agree with that.
I think some of thesecertifications are incredibly
challenging.
You know, very difficult to get, very difficult to obtain.
Now it's easy to you knowyou've got all the resources
right there.
All you have to do is put inthe time right and hopefully, I

(52:54):
don't know take some ginkgo andlike improve your memory or
something.
But you've got to put the timein to get this stuff.
But he's got a point you knowyou can have all the certs and
if you can't communicate, if youdon't know how to follow
through on what you say you'regoing to do, or say no when you
have to, or be diplomatic with acustomer that wants you to

(53:15):
overextend your work without anyincrease in payment for that
extra work, things like that.
People get screwed over all thetime because they don't know
how to hold the line and hold itkindly, like hold it generously
.

Bobby Dornbos (53:30):
No smart customer is choosing an SI because they
say, oh, you've got this numberof certs.
There's a lot more that goesinto that.
That's true, that's right.
One would hope, yeah, one wouldhope right.
I know things slip through, butI would have loved and would
love a future.
I know it's a really hard thingto put together but like
Trailhead being how theyfacilitate credentials and

(53:51):
certification, right, More ofthe hands-on stuff, because
that's the gap.
Just like you said, Josh, yougot all these resources to learn
and I love the consultantcertifications.
They really teach you on how tohave a high level consultative
conversation on certain usecases and product domains for
Salesforce.
But the actual like can youimplement this, Can you

(54:16):
architect this?
Like they, the tests just can'tcover everything that you're
going to come across even on dayone Now's projects, that is,
the hands on aspect of trailheadgets you a little bit closer to
that.

Josh Matthews (54:22):
Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely.
Guys, do you have enough timeto stick around to help us
respond to some of ourlisteners' questions?
Sure, let's do it.
I absolutely do.
I've talked a lot, though Wellyou know what, but it's all been
good stuff.
You say smart things, Bobby,and that's a good thing.
Guys, thank you so much forcovering this.
Really, I think it's animportant topic.

(54:43):
I want to continue to revisit it.
We've covered it once before inan earlier show.
I think we explored somedifferent aspects of it right
now.
Now we have a number I don'tknow, it's like 20 different
questions to get answeredbetween now, and you know it
probably won't all happen by theend of our episode coming up on
the 4th.
Just as a quick little recap,everybody, you are listening to

(55:04):
the Salesforce Career Show andwe are running a contest and a
lot of people have submittedsome great questions.
Some of these questions, by theway, we might get one or two
that are sort of piggyback onone another.
I've asked Vanessa to pick outthe three that she'd like to
cover today and sometimes we geta question and we talk for an
hour about it.
So I can't say that we're goingto get through all three, but,

(55:25):
Vanessa, if you've got it up,feel free to read it.
If you don't, I've got it infront of me and I'm happy to.
Would you like to read thequestion?

Vanessa Grant (55:30):
Sure, should I go through the ones that I picked.

Josh Matthews (55:33):
Yeah.

Vanessa Grant (55:42):
So the first one was I want to ask how can I
pitch myself for a job thatrequires 80% Salesforce
administration experience and20% CRM AI experience?
I do have a strong admin and BAexperience, but don't have
prior experience in AI.
However, I've started studyingabout AI on Salesforce Trailhead
and also completed AIcertifications.

Josh Matthews (55:58):
Okay, awesome, that's from Bona Saini.
I hope I'm saying your nameright.
Thank you so much for sendingthat question in and for letting
us share your name too.
So great question.
Look, I mean, no one knowsanything about AI.
They just don't right.
You use it Like you use AI.
Ai is supposed to.
For people like us, for someonewho's a BA or a sales admin, ai

(56:20):
is to make your life easier.
It's not a complex process tofigure it out and learn.
So the first thing that I wouldsay is just relax, okay, just
take a chill pill.
It's totally cool.
Right Now, you want to figureout how to pitch yourself and
your knowledge of AI.
I mean, you can just type thatinto perplexityai and they'll
tell you, but of course, we'renot perplexity, so I'm going to

(56:42):
tell you what's up.
Okay, first of all, the reasonwhy they want AI, and we're
going to start seeing this in.
Probably, I'm guessing rightaround 30% or more job postings
nowadays are saying somethingaround that.
I could totally be wrong.
I really don't know, but Ithink that's a number that, at
least within the last few months, made sense based on some
research to understand AI or CRM.

(57:07):
Ai is so that they can get morebang for their buck.
That just means you're going tobe a lot more effective than
someone who doesn't know how touse this.
Now there are Luddites in theworld.
That includes some Salesforceadmins, believe it or not.
Okay, a Luddite is someonewho's not into tech, but there
are actually Salesforce adminsthat are resistant to change.
I mean gosh, theron and Bobbyyou guys are working in oil and

(57:30):
gas.
Ever see any resistance tochange much?

Bobby Dornbos (57:34):
Oh, yeah, and a bit of resistance to trailhead
characters and the wholemarketing push of Salesforce.

Josh Matthews (57:39):
Yeah, yeah, but it's not for them, is it Right?
I mean it's not for them.
It's Salesforce's way ofshowing diversification without
having to have pictures ofpeople real people.
So what I would do first thingsfirst is just get on AI and
start using it all the time.
I mean, I don't even use Googleanymore.
When I use Google, it feelslike gross to me, it's like

(58:01):
having to.
What is it?
It's like having to use alandline, right, compared to
like a mobile phone or a headset.
That's what it feels like to me.
It's clunky, it's slow, itkicks out stuff.
I don't know if the stuff isgood.
I'm going to have to spend 20minutes opening up 10 different
links to see and speed read andscan to figure out.
Is this what I'm actuallylooking for?

(58:22):
Ai gets rid of that.
I use perplexityai.
It's absolutely fantastic.
Chatgpt is just up their gameabout two weeks ago and so now
they can do the same things, inother words, access real-time
internet, right.
So ChatGPT can do that.
What I like about perplexity isyou can use a bunch of
different large language models.
You know you can click onClaude, this ChatGPT, that this

(58:45):
kind of image creation softwareor whatever, and it'll do it for
you.
There's some really heavy dutystuff out there too.
I'm working with, working with.
I'm talking to a friend of mine.
He's someone who used to workat a company called Veruna.
His name's Mike.
Mike is a super intelligent guy.
He is looking for his nextcareer.
So if you need a super smartSalesforce pro, this guy he's a

(59:06):
developer.
This guy's incredible and he'sraving about a product called
Cursor.
Anyone here ever heard ofCursor?
I mean, it can build outsoftware and code in an
incredibly efficient way.
You do not need to be adeveloper, but you do need to
understand how logic works, andthat's how AI is.
So I'll give you an example.

(59:28):
I'm helping a friend right nowrewrite his employee handbook.
It's a 17-page handbook andthis is one of my best friends,
right, so I'm helping him outwith this.
Am I rewriting all this stuffmyself?
Hell, no.
But I can't just take a 17-pagedocument and dump it into the
product of my choice and have itkick out.
Exactly what I want it to be.

(59:48):
You have to learn to talk to itand you have to say this is
what I'm going to do, this iswhat it's for.
There's legal stuff in here, soyou can't change any of that
information.
It's a lot of text, so I'mgoing to be delivering it in
three parts.
After the third part, I'm goingto type in quote organize and

(01:00:09):
when?
Going to type in quote organize, and at that.
When I do that, then I want youto organize this in such and
such a way.
You have to break things downthe way developers do, but you
know, with text you just have tobreak things down for ai to
really understand and get reallyspecific.
That's just a matter ofpractice.
There's I don't know thousandgreat videos on YouTube to learn
how to do this.
Okay, as far as CRM AI, I mean,there's not a single AI program

(01:00:33):
or platform out there worthusing.
That doesn't that hasn'talready created their own videos
on how to use it.
So that's all you got to do.

Bobby Dornbos (01:00:41):
Can I I actually?
So, going back to the originalquestion, right, salesforce is a
wild platform.
You have the core platform, youhave Tableau, you have Slack,
you have CRM, you haveAgentForce, you have DataCloud,
you have all these differentthings.
Now, and so to this candidateif I'm putting my people leader
hat on, I'm thinking like theydid a good job of already

(01:01:02):
pitching themselves by talkingabout all the efforts that
they're taking to learn thesenew things.
Right, like, if I'm hiring a newresource, a solution engineer
or a business analyst orwhatever, prove to me that
you're a career and a lifelonglearner and I will take that
initiative over any number ofprojects you've implemented.
On one given thing, right, weknow we have to have that

(01:01:22):
foundation of have you delivereda Salesforce project?
Do you know agile?
Do you know these certainthings that are technical
requirements of what you'redoing?
But as far as, like all theother things that the customer
would like as a bullet point ontheir hiring record, whatever,
like, just show me that you'rewilling to learn and prove it in
that interview that you'retaking the steps needed to get
there, because we're not evergoing to know everything.

(01:01:42):
Right, absolutely.

Vanessa Grant (01:01:43):
I totally, and you know I'll add to that when I
do click coaching a lot andwe've been doing a lot of career
sessions lately.
I say a lot of times,especially when you're moving
into a newish kind of role, alot of the interview is going to
be understanding the vocabulary.
So to find somebody who's 20%of their experience is CRMAI,

(01:02:03):
like okay, did they start lastyear?
Like so, that's kind of a weirdjob bullet to ask for anyway.
So all you can do, talk aboutyour experience.
If you've done, you know,clicked experiences with AI.
Did you do that agent forcething and put up the frame like
20,000 trailblazers did a coupleof weeks ago because they all

(01:02:24):
did that trailhead?
Did you go to the hackathon inNew York?
Maybe?
Talk about that.
Have you taken the AIspecialist?
Can you actually do youunderstand the vocabulary that
Salesforce is using when itcomes to AI and how can you
inject that in your answer whenthey do inevitably bring up AI
in that interview?

Josh Matthews (01:02:40):
That's 100% correct, vanessa, and, by the
way, that bullet was probablywritten by AI, right Like you've
got.
Anytime there's a job thatrequires X, y and Z.
You don't know.
Did a recent graduate from thelocal university who just
started in HR write that?
Was it a CEO who wrote that?
Was it the direct hiringmanager?

(01:03:01):
I've had clients before I don'twork with them this one anymore
where I said look, we got totalk about this job description.
She'd never read the jobdescription.
She never wrote the jobdescription.
She sent it to me.
She never even read it.
She didn't know what it said.
And when I started goingthrough it, she's like oh my God
, that's all different, it's alloff.
Hiring managers are busy people.
That's why they need to hiremore people.

(01:03:23):
The last thing they've got timefor is hiring and training, but
that's exactly when they needsomeone.
So part one is don't even trustthe job description.
Just just assume like, yeah,okay, 20%.
Yeah, they don't know if it's20%, it could be 3%, it could be
100%.
They don't even know Mostcompanies.
They literally don't even know.
Unless it's a massive factory,you know they can't tell you

(01:03:44):
exactly what you're going to bedoing all day.
So take it all with a grain ofsalt, and I think everybody here
shared some really goodopinions on it.
I love the life.
Look, I'm a lifelong learner.
This is what I'm doing.
This is what I've done so farto learn CRMAI.
This is the community I'minvolved in to get better at it,
et cetera, et cetera.
I'm so stoked about this stuffbecause clearly it just makes

(01:04:04):
everything easier and makeseverything better and improves
our performance.

Vanessa Grant (01:04:07):
To Bobby's point earlier, know your use cases and
also I mean I did a sessionlast year at Dreamforce called
Preparing your Org for anAI-Driven Future.
There's an article on it, ifanybody wants to check it out,
on the Salesforce admins blogfrom last year.
But a big part of preparingSalesforce orgs for AI is also
going to be business analysisand data cleanup piece.

(01:04:30):
You know it's a garbage in,garbage out.
Is your org actually preparedfor it?
So if that's where you feelmore comfortable, if you're
responding to a question from aninterviewer, you can speak to
that, which is also going to bereally important.

Josh Matthews (01:04:45):
Yeah, absolutely, and there was sort of a
piggyback question on this whichwas how can I navigate the AI
buzz and improve capability inwhat is really important within
that space?
I think we've kind of coveredthat.
I also think that if you go toI think it's two episodes ago,
two, three episodes ago we diveinto this.
It's a lot of what I covered atthe Florida Dreamin' session
too, right, so just go back twoor three.

(01:05:05):
We talk about it.
Another thing that you can do ifyou're an admin connect with
David Giller and his Brainiateorg.
Okay, brainiatecom, I mean, heis all about this.
Let me make sure I've got itright.
Brainiate yeah, I don't havesome cool person looking stuff

(01:05:26):
up for me.
Yeah, brainiate, salesforceenablement.
So this is David Giller's baby.
And Vanessa, do you remember?
We were at New York World notthe one this week, the one last
April and we got to sit downwith David and it's just, he's a
wealth of information.
Now, because of that wealth ofinformation, he doesn't have
time for everybody, he can't doone-on-ones with everyone, but
you can join the Brainiate Slackchannel and you can go to
Brainiatecom and you candownload all sorts of really

(01:05:49):
awesome information on how toget trained in this stuff.
So I would go there.
That's what I would do.
I would start there and I'dstart with YouTube and I would
start just with like perplexityor chat, gpt and deep dive on
this stuff.
Bobby.

Vanessa Grant (01:06:02):
Aaron, thank you so much for coming.
Casey, thanks for being here.
Josh, val, savory Analyst.
Everybody thanks so much and wewill see you guys next time on
LinkedIn, where we will giveaway five Salesforce
certification vouchers.
Bobby, there, before we go, howcan we connect with you?

Bobby Dornbos (01:06:20):
Find me on LinkedIn.
Just like this podcast nexttime.

Theron Stanley (01:06:23):
Same here.
I'm more active on LinkedInthan anything.

Vanessa Grant (01:06:26):
Awesome.
Thank you, guys so much.