Samsung vs Apple's Ecosystem Battle + AI Overload w/Max Weinbach

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back everybody.
This is episode number 15 ofthe Sammy Guru Podcast.
My name is Jeff Springer andwith me, as always, my co-host,
Torrey hey, how's it going?
And today we have a specialguest in the house, our first
ever guest on the podcast, soreally appreciate him coming on.
Max Weinbach, How's it going?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Thanks for having me, guys, it's great.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
So just a little bit of an intro here.
I've known Max since you werelike 16, right when we first
followed each other on X or onTwitter.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, that was when I had like 2,000 followers, so it
would have been 2018.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
2018, okay, yeah.
So you started off doing a lotof Samsung stuff.
You had, like a Samsung Discord.
You did a lot of stuff withfirmware and all that.
You want to talk for people whodon't know?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
tell them a little bit about what you were doing
back in the early days.
Yeah, the very simpleexplanation is I saw like
Android, please, xda doing allthe APK teardowns.
I started doing them myselfthrough Samsung's beta programs

(01:08):
when they were doing theirpublic betas for I think it was
Android Oreo and found a fewunreleased features here and
there.
It was the intelligence scanfor the Galaxy S9, where you
could use iris scanning andfacial recognition depending on
what was available based onlight, and then just kept doing
firmware leaks and digging intoit and doing AP carry teardowns.
Some AT&T used to just post alltheir updates early, so we'd
scrape those and upload those aswell.
I don know if the source wasever public, but now it is and

(01:29):
then continued going from thereto do more, I guess yeah, so you
do so.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Since then you've done, obviously a lot of other
stuff, not just with Samsung,but now you do cover a bunch of
different all tech stuff,including iPhone, which we'll
talk about later because I'mcurious to get your take on how
you because you use mostlySamsung in the beginning, right?

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, no, it's hardcore Samsung.
Up until actually, I got aniPhone, which would have been
2019.
So it's been fairly recent,yeah, and I'm actually curious
about what made you make theswitch.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
We'll talk about that a little bit later, but, tori,
how's your week been, by the way?

Speaker 3 (02:06):
I mean honestly so far the week has been good.
I am on the eve of fall break.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Oh, that's great.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
So, as soon as that happens, I'll be a new man.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's great.
Torrey is actually one of myformer students.
He teaches high school math.
So, as you probably remember,max, before I went full-time
doing Sammy Guru on my YouTubechannel, I was a math professor
for 12 years, so that's myclassically trained.
I met Tori.
He's one of my older students.
I met him towards the beginningof my teaching career, so about

(02:37):
10 or 11 years ago.
I met Tori, and so now heteaches math full-time, but he's
also been a Samsung user for along time.
So the main reason that I gothim to co-host the podcast is, I
feel like most of the techpodcast, you see right, it's
like everybody is a prettyhardcore tech enthusiast,
whereas there's very fewpodcasts where you've got people

(02:58):
who bring more of the casualuser perspective.
So Tori tries to give us someof that, because obviously I
cover stuff every day withSamsung, so maybe I'm a little
bit skewed in my perspective ofyou know how things are viewed.
And then also, I know the otherreason I wanted to bring you on
is because you are a little bityounger than both of us.

(03:19):
You just finished yourundergrad, right?
So didn't you graduate thispast spring?
Is that true.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, I did in May, June May May, that's right.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
And you did your.
What did you do your degree?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
in Was it in business .
I can't remember I did a, itwas a business degree, and then
I did a double major inmarketing and finance.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Okay, very cool, yeah , and so I'm curious to hear.
So I read a little bit, I triedto do some research.
I read a little bit, I tried todo some research.
Uh, I read a little bit.
The website, uh, where you worknow, creative strategies, is
that right, that's the name ofthe company, that, yep, and so
you guys do you advise basicallycompanies on how to make their
products better, improve theuser experience, is that the

(03:59):
idea?

Speaker 2 (04:00):
yeah, I think part of it's that.
And then there's you coulddescribe it as like glorified
consultants, which is a verysimple description, but more or
less apt.
But there's a lot of things wecan do.
I think the services we haveoffered on there is I'm trying
to think of like how to properlyword this to make it clear

(04:24):
Message testing.
So let's say a company has anew marketing campaign or is
doing a new product and theywant to see hey, is this message
actually landing?
Is this what we're doing?
We can come in and advise onthat.
If they're thinking aboutstarting a new product, we can
help them in the productdevelopment cycle go in the
right direction.
We also do a little bit withWall Street, so sometimes we're

(04:46):
helping.
You know, you have journalistswhich are companies to people,
and then you have analysts whichare kind of companies to Wall
Street and investors.
So there's a lot of differentparts to it.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
And so I saw something on there about the
delight scale.
Did you help design that?
I remember you were talkingabout it on X one time, or or is
that something they designedbefore?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
that's yeah, that's been there for ages.
It's just uh.
I've helped build one of oursurveys or studies that we are
doing on I, vr and ar.
I believe we did a delightscale on a meta quest, yeah and
uh, to do that just to get ageneral idea of what people
think.
Uh, it's just kind get ageneral idea of what people
think.
It's just kind of a good.

(05:27):
It is what I would describe avery good marker of the user
experience and what people thinkof not only a product but the
features in the product and theproduct as a whole and company.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
So, like the delayed scale, I assume it changes based
on the product category.
Is that?
Is that accurate?

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, so there's a few base things that we're going
with there.
I don't want to get too deepinto it, right, but there's a
few base variables that we'renot necessarily going to change.
Uh, just reword here and thereand then everything kind of gets
adapted to the specific product.
So if we want to see, if it's,let's say, a pixel 9, we're
going to do google ai on theirpixel camera features, gemini

(06:07):
and try to adapt it to the Pixel9.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Very cool yeah.
So you guys do mainlysmartphones or every area of
tech.
Is it smartphones the mainfocus?

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Every area of tech you can get data center, silicon
, smartphones, consumerelectronics, enterprise
electronics.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
And you've been doing a lot of evaluation.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
You can get into individual parts.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Oh, phones, consumer electronics, enterprise
electronics, and you've beendoing a lot of evaluation.
Get into individual parts.
Oh, you've been doing a lot oflike ai program evaluation.
I've seen you post about thaton x.
Is that something you guys dotoo, or just like a hobby that
you enjoy yourself, like it's alittle bit of?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
buffering we're getting.
We're starting to get more intothat as ai becomes more
relevant, but it's alsosomething I'm just, you know,
very interested, so I do alittle bit of that on my own and
it helps with actual work wherewe're, you know, I guess I'd
say, advising companies onbenchmarking, performance, how
to talk about AI and maybe whatfeatures they should be rolling

(06:57):
out in the future.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
It's a very cool job that I didn't really think about
.
Did you do like an internshipor did you know someone who
worked there?
Did you work there while youwere in college?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
So Ben, it's four people.
Tim Beharin founded it orstarted it, basically brought it
from what it was.
And his son, ben Beharin, who'snow CEO.
Tim retired, he's now justchairman Carolina Milanese Sorry
, if she sees this, I don't knowhow to pronounce her last name.
Um, she's president ben ceo.

(07:26):
Uh, sean is our finance person.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Then I'm just the analyst under all of them that's
cool, so you get to play with alot of tech, basically, and
yeah and I yeah, I did internfor them for a year.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
I emailed ben sorry that was all leading up to I
dm'd ben on twitter asked if Icould intern for them.
They said, sure.
I continued the internshipthrough my school year and I was
my senior year.
I was doing school plus workingfor them and then started full
time June 1st.
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, that's a very cool job, I don't know.
So let's talk a little bit.
Let's transition into talking alittle bit.
I figured today we do like ahybrid, since we have Max here.
We usually talk some Samsungnews, but I have a couple of
stories and I figured we wouldtalk about them and then also
maybe talk about some of thegeneral stuff that I was going
to get his thoughts on.
The first thing I want to talkabout was the iPhone 16 launch

(08:12):
just happened, obviously, andsince you know a lot about
iPhones, I mean, I have aniPhone too, but since I use
Samsung stuff all the time, Idon't use it Probably he's got
both right there probably he'sgot both right there, I know.
Uh, so I'm curious.
One of the things that tori andI've talked about a lot on this
show is that samsung seems tobe moving towards less like

(08:33):
focus on hardware and specs andmore on user experience,
ecosystem things like that,which is something that apple's
obviously been doing for years.
Um, what do you think thatSamsung can do, because
obviously their goal is to tryto get some of the market share
from Apple in terms of appeal tothem, using sort of the same

(08:55):
strategy Apple does?
Do you think it's an effectivestrategy for Samsung and what do
you think they could do to kindof appeal to the Apple user
base, to poach some of thoseusers over?

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Or is there anything?
I think that's the wrong way tolook at it.
Your problem is Samsung has apretty big user base already.
I would agree the problem is notpoaching from Samsung or
poaching from Apple.
It's not losing them, becausethat's not the problem.
People don't switch likestatistically from iPhone to
Android.
They switch from Android toiPhone and stay on iPhone.
That's just what the datamostly shows.

(09:25):
Your problem now is not havingthem switch back.
It's don't have them switch atall.
Stay on Samsung, stay onAndroid.
And Samsung's problem was, Ithink, they're trying to get
switchers, which is a bad call.
People got Samsung for yearsbecause they really appreciated
these really I would say,premium, extravagant and

(09:45):
expensive phones that were thebest of the best, no matter what
.
There was no competition.
It was just Samsung was numberone.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
But you would agree right that they are trying to
poach Apple users by appealingto some of the same things.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's not working because, again, the problem is
they don't.
Samsung users or iPhone usersaren't going to switch, so even
if they try to poach them, itdoesn't matter.
And it feels like you're kindof kneecapping your main.
You know your core user base interms of upgrades and devices
to try to get people that aren'tgoing to switch.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, tori has mentioned this many times that
he thinks that Samsung reallyshould go back to, like you said
, focusing on innovation withcrazy new features.
But it seems like they've kindof gone away from that in some
sense the last few years sinceTM Rowe took over.
It seems like he's more likelet's just kind of keep the
status quo, not do too much interms of crazy sweeping changes.

(10:45):
So I mean, what do you thinkabout that?
Do you think that if they goback to trying to do, you know,
big extravagant features and newthings that Apple isn't doing,
that that could help?

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Again, you're not getting the switchers, that's
just they're not.
People aren't going to switch,but it will stop people from
leaving Samsung.
It'll stop them from going togoogle, right, and it'll stop
them from going to iphone andyou might get new upgrades every
now and then.
I still see a bunch of galaxys10s around.
Those people would definitelydo better if they had any newer
iphone period and maybe you canstart getting them back to it if

(11:20):
you can.
You know they were the first totruly do like a proper triple
camera setup and a proper underdisplay right and a proper
bezel-less display.
Start doing firsts again andthen maybe you'll stop doing it.
You don't have to be like thebig extravagant.
This is a, you know, ceramicback and giant camera.
It's a biggest number ever.
But do a little bit better thanwhat you have.

(11:41):
Don't make it I've seen theleaks of the galaxy S25, but
don't make it just an iPhone.
Everyone's going to have aniPhone.
The Pixel's basically an iPhone.
Now Do something special andtry to keep interest.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Do you think that the reason?
So you're saying people willnot switch from iPhone to?

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Samsung.
That is a lost cause.
It's going to be aninsignificant amount of people a
lost cause.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
It's going to be an insignificant amount of people.
Do you think the reason isprimarily iMessage ecosystem
reasons, that people not leaving?
Because I mean, when I showpeople who use an iPhone, my
Samsung devices, they seemimpressive by the hardware but
they still have no interest inswitching.
It seems like a lot of that isthat they're tied to iMessage,
FaceTime, things like that.
Is that what you?

Speaker 2 (12:24):
see and believe.
I used to, and then I startedrealizing I think people would
switch if these features wereworth the hassle of doing it.
It is a pain in the ass toswitch phones, it just is.
You don't want to have evenupgrading phones and to switch
from an iPhone to a Samsungphone phone it's an even bigger

(12:45):
hassle, it's an even bigger pain.
Well, you don't want to do it,even if the samsung stuff is so
great that you're going to do it.
You just you won't, becauseit's a huge pain right.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
No one knows that better than us.
When you switch a new phoneevery every week it's not fun.
Yeah, people think it's fun tohave 50 phones now it's not.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I have like 12 on my desk or something.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, it's not as fun as you would think Because,
like, you know, you're outsomewhere and you need an app
and you're like, oh, I forgot toinstall that particular app or
a phone.
You know an app that you don'tkeep on every phone.
You don't have that thing.
Or you know, setting it up isjust not a about foldables, I

(13:27):
mean.
So we've also debated like doyou think foldables are going to
bring iphone users to samsung?
Samsung doesn't have much of awindow left because I guess
apple will eventually make afoldable where we've heard, you
know, 2026, 2027 who knows ifthat's accurate uh, but you know
, eventually they will bring one.
Do you think foldables have anychance of bringing over people
to samsung?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
if they would have, they would have over the past
six years that's a good point.
Yeah, I I think that's the onlyway, like there was more of a
competition when samsung did thefirst c flip and it was what
the iphone's 11, iphone 11 rightbut now it's been six years.
foldables have been good forfour.
If they didn't switch, whywould they now, even if samsung
kept doing these new ones?
Or I've got the Xiaomi Mix Flip.

(14:05):
That is by far my favoritefoldable on the market.
It's in Europe, not in the US,unfortunately, but you have to
have the Moto Razr.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, I was thinking about trying that.
I gave Tori one of my Razrs totry it.
He's kind of liked it.
I think the flip phones have aninteresting chance to grow just
because they appeal to morepeople.
What do you think?
I mean, I feel like this isanother question that I told you
when we were talking about youcoming on the flip versus the
book style foldable Do you thinkthat the flip is more

(14:32):
utilitarian than the book style?
Do you think it appeals to morepeople Because a lot.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I think you have to look at the demographics for
that right.
I don't think most men havepockets in their pants Like they
don't need a flip phone andthat's not going to do it
outside of the coolness factor,which may or may not sell that's
up to a personal decision so Ithink the book style does better
for them.
Then you have women who mighthave a bag around and a or a

(14:57):
small pocket, something whereflip style is more beneficial or
you could just have people thatdon't even care and say this is
a pain, I don't want to have toworry about it, and just grab
an iPhone because they alreadyhave that.
But again, this idea ofswitchers just isn't happening.
It's what are you having peopleon Android already using?
It's just.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree Samsung should focus onthe fans they have and it seems
like the best way to do thatwould be to not keep making.
They've made iterative upgradesforever.
You said you saw the S25 Ultraleaks.
There isn't really anything toget excited about.
I mean, is there anythingexciting to you in the S25 Ultra

(15:35):
leaks that you've seen so far?
I mean, I've covered it everyday, but it doesn't seem like
it's that interesting to theaverage person.
You know the things they'regoing to change.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
I don't know much other than I've seen that one
render.
I haven't kept up that much,but my only hope is it's a
little more comfortable to holdthe edges are a little
uncomfortable on the S24.
So I think it does that, butthen when you round out the
edges and throw the S Pen inthere, you've got an iPhone 16
slash, pixel 9 slash every otherphone on the market but it's an

(16:05):
S24 Ultra.
Yeah, and you know they lookthe same, they feel the same.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
The S Pen is kind of a differentiating feature, but
it seems like not a lot ofpeople use it.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I use it, but now it seems like a lot of people don't
use the S Pen, so I would loveto see the data on how often
it's unsheathed from the device.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, I don't think it's that often.
Because I don't think it's thatoften.
Since you haven't seen some ofthem, I guess we can talk a
little bit about what's in theS25 Ultra, because that's one of
the things I was going to talkabout in the news stories.
I kind of had them listed.
So really, the only things thatare changing are the rounded
corners which Max mentioned.
You've seen that.
I mean, basically they're notchanging much of anything other

(16:58):
than just making it rounder onthe edges, which I do think the
edges are kind of sharp, I thinkyou mentioned too that you
agree.
Tori has an S22 Ultra, you thinkyours is also still a little
sharp on the corners.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, I know it is Definitely when I'm trying to
hold it, or like if I'm layingdown and trying to hold it it
just hurts the palm of my hand.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
People actually make fun of me when I say this in my
YouTube videos that it has sharpcorners and I mean it's
obviously not going to injureyou but it is a little bit
annoying to hold.
So there's that there's goingto be a 16 gigabyte of RAM
variant.
I don't think anyone caresabout that.
I mean, is 16 gig of RAM reallynecessary, even in a flagship?
Now, I don't.
What do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (17:37):
You think so.
On Android, yes On Android, yes.
On iOS, no.
If you look into actually howthe memory paging system works,
I saw a chart from years ago.
It was like 2014, 16, somewherearound there that how iOS
paging works.
And six gigs of RAM was equalto like eight or nine.
On iOS, after they go throughall the optimization cycles,

(17:57):
compression and all that stuff,three gigs of RAM was equal to
like seven.
So Apple's their memoryoptimization is beyond what you
would expect.
It just is it is better.
They only need eight becauseit's really equal to 12 and you
can have people say, well, thesenumbers it's just apple playing
games.
No, that's like.
The actual practicalapplication is.
Eight is equal to about 12.

(18:19):
Android doesn't have this, somaybe apple does 12 gigs and
that's equal to like 18.
Android still needs 16.
And when you have the new AImodels, the memory, bandwidth on
a lot of these chips aren't aslarge, so you just need things
loaded all the time, which meansmore storage.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
That's what I was going to say.
I think they're doing it forthe AI reasons.
I mean, we'll talk about AIagain.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
It's also future-proofing.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, to make sure that if you buy an expensive
phone you can still use it forseveral years.
I think a lot of the Galaxy Eyefeatures, though it seems also
like people aren't using thoseas much as Samsung thinks.
I mean, I don't know.
Obviously we don't have theApple intelligence yet on the
iPhone.
I've been running the 18.1 betaon my iPhone 15 Pro for since I

(19:03):
don't know a while, whenever itcame out.
I don't know exactly.
Have you tried out the?
I assume you have tried outApple Intelligence on the beta.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, I've been using it since day one.
I think Apple Intelligence willbe good.
The current feature set isnothing, but you wait until they
get Siri in there and you waituntil Genmojis and all the image
playground and things start toadd up to an actual good
experience.
But, like rewriting tools, it'snice but not game changing.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what I mean.
It seems like Apple does havesome intuitive features for
their AI that maybe Samsungcould add.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
That are missing, like you said, Wait until Siri,
because the way iOS works is inthe developer guidelines every
feature should be an app intentand then they store all of those
app intents into like an SQLdatabase and then can query it.
So Siri, when it gets the Appleintelligence features, will be
able to access all of that, knowabout all of that, grab your

(20:01):
user data from whatever app andwhatever index index I think
they're using Spotlight for itand then control any app based
on anything you've asked and anydata on your phone.
And that's when Siri starts tobecome a lot more useful.
Yeah, I was, and that's whenApple Intelligence starts to hit
.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, I was watching their keynote.
It seems like they're going tohave a lot better integration
with all this stuff on yourphone versus what Galaxy has.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
It doesn't require developers to do it.
The problem with Google andSamsung is, if you want to
support any of that, you need tothen go convince your
developers hey, ours is the best, you should be using us and
then have them add support toevery single function they want
to add support to.
It's too much work.
No one's going to do it.
Apple it's just already done.
They're using a thing theyadded in iOS 16 or iOS 15.
I think it was 14, actuallythey introduced App Intents.

(20:45):
So anything that's been addedsince iOS 14 to now just
basically everything willimmediately be supported without
any developer interaction.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, and that's nice .
I mean, that's another thingthat people like on the iPhone
is that their slogan of it justworks from back in the day.
They make everything seamless,even if it's third-party apps,
whereas with a lot of the galaxyI stuff it's siloed like
individual things but it onlyworks with samsung apps for the

(21:12):
most part.
I mean, I've used some of thestuff but I mean, since it
doesn't work with anythird-party apps and it really
doesn't, galaxy I doesn't reallyseem like it really interfaces
with bixby yet properly either.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
I mean I don't think it will.
Bixby feels more or less dead,yeah like.
Bixby is like just anafterthought.
I don't think it will.
Bixby feels more or less dead,yeah, like.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Bixby is like just an afterthought and it's there in
addition to Galaxy Eye and ithas like a fancy new glow effect
in the last version of One UI,but it doesn't really have any
improvements.
So I do feel like, even thoughpeople are kind of laughing that
Samsung put Galaxy Eye outfirst, it feels like Apple might
be ahead in the end, out first.

(21:44):
It feels like Apple might beahead in the end because, even
though it's not on the iPhone 16Pro, which I think is kind of
funny that they had all thoseads which I'm sure you saw there
were people advertising.
It wasn't one of the Applestores, they were leading a
chant about.
Apple AI, but then it's not onthe phone.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
I was there for that.
I was right behind in the medialine.
Oh, you were, because you wentto pick up your iPhone from that
store right.
That's the one the big one inNew York.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
We were all there kind oflooking at it like what's going
on?

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, I thought that was hilarious yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I don't think they were supposed to have done that,
but yeah, I'm sure, tim.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Cook or Apple's PR, people didn't tell.
Okay, oh they do.
Well, it seems like a littlebit of a mistake on the Apple
Store employees part, to do it,but I mean, I think it will be

(22:39):
somewhat ahead.
I also think Google seems likethey're a little ahead when it
comes to AI stuff too, which youwould kind of expect, I suppose
, since they've.
What do you think?
Do you think Google's notreally?

Speaker 2 (22:49):
ahead.
I think, in general, google'sprobably the best in terms of AI
.
I put them, you know, equalplaying ground with Anthropic
and OpenAI.
But when it comes to on mobile,not just in general models, I
don't think so.
I think Apple's winning thatone out, because when you use
Gemini on Samsung, even withGemini Nano or Pixel 9, it's not

(23:13):
doing anything on the device.
It's still going to the bigcloud data center model and it's
not grabbing any of theinformation from your phone.
It's using your linked Googleaccount and grabbing from your
Gmail account to answer yourquestion, or it's grabbing from
your Google Docs, and that's avery different thing, because
now, if you have more than oneGoogle account, which I do, I
can't ask it about all of those.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Apple intelligence will be able to.
And also I was going to ask you, since you know obviously a lot
about this.
I mean, I was testing this forwhen I was doing a video
comparison for the Pixel 9 ProXL with the S24 Ultra.
When you do Gemini and Tori,and I talked about in the past
episode, sometimes it actuallytells you that it needs to ask
the Google Assistant to get theanswer, which is really weird.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Like because Gemini cannot directly control your
phone.
So if it knows it's somethingGoogle Assistant can do, it
sends a basically a functioncall from Gemini's model to the
Android phone and then sends therequest over to the Google
Assistant to complete.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, and I feel like that's the kind of stuff that
Android has a disadvantage withApple, like you said, because
obviously, since Apple's goteverything tied in, not only
with third-party apps, but theycontrol the whole OS, whereas
Samsung has to work with Googleon Android, it's annoying
because when I ask Jim and I aquestion, I don't want it to
tell me that it's going to askGoogle Assistant Just do it.

(24:26):
The fact that it tells you iskind of strange to me too,
because it's like I don't care,it's all Google product, just do
it.
Like apple would never.
Apple would never say likeasking this app to get
information.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
It just seems oh no, they do.
They will with a chat gpt.
Oh, do they send you here tosiri when it sends your data
outside.
They will when it sends yourdata outside of siri all right
for the, for the gpt integrationthey have access it, yeah, yeah
.
And then they're going tosupport other models like gemini
, which I think is really funny,because all the features you
have on android, as soon as theyhad gemini, support apple
intelligence to be able to do ittoo, because it's the same

(24:59):
cloud model and it's just usingthe app installed on your phone
so will.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
So, oh, so, I didn't know this.
They, the apple, said thatgemini will be supported.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Uh, will be able to be used support other models
than just chat, gpt, and theyspecifically mentioned Gemini
and Cloud.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Oh, wow, that's interesting.
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I don't know when I don't know how, but they did say
that they were going to do chatGPT first and then look into
supporting other models,including Gemini and Cloud.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
I mean, I guess it's to Google's advantage, obviously
, if Apple supports.
Gemini you get more peopleusing Gemini, obviously, and
they get more data, but somepeople don't want to use ChatGPT
.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
They want to use Gemini.
Sure.
Yeah, Some people don't want touse Gemini or ChatGPT.
They want to use CloudAnthropic.
It's good to give peopleoptions.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Right, yeah, just like any other service.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Each model does something better.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Tori, what AI like in terms of generative AI outside
of Samsung do you use?
Do you use ChatGPT often forteaching stuff, or have you ever
used Claude for that kind ofstuff?
Well, so.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
I never heard of Claude before, but I definitely
used ChatGPT a few times,especially when I started doing
some stuff for you.
Yeah, because I mean I've had alot of training now in the
teaching world of, hey, how canwe utilize chat, gbt to help us
with like lesson planning andstuff like that, or just

(26:18):
creating, um you know, promptsand stuff, uh, for students.
Um, so yeah, that's what Imostly use so far.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, I just found out about gemini like not too
long ago so, max, when you werein school I mean chat gbt
obviously came out while you'restill an undergrad uh, did you
have a lot of?
Uh, did they have a lot ofinteresting discussions about AI
policy?
Because while in my last yearteaching at the university and
also Tori teaching at the highschool, one big thing in
academia now is how we're goingto stop generative AI.
It seems like it's a futilething, and obviously in math

(26:48):
we've also had other programsthat you don't really need
generative AI to do yourcalculus homework, because
Wolfram Alpha Photomath amillion different applications
that we've had to like obviouslyplan our lessons around for the
last 15 years.
It's not like it's a new thingin math, but did they have a lot
of discussion at the universityyou were at about generative AI
?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
So there's two things I want to say to that.
There's two different types ofmodels.
You have the base model andthen an instruct tune.
Instruct tune is a chat model.
Base model is just you'll typein something and it'll complete
the rest of it essentially.
When the base model of GPT-3launched in September, october
of my junior year and I wasusing it for, let's say, two

(27:31):
months before chat GPT hit.
And then chat GPT took a monthand then all these other models
hit afterwards, but in that timepeople kept using it and didn't
realize how to use it.
So it wasn't a big deal becauseyou could always tell when
someone was using it and itdidn't really hit until, I would
say, the second semester of mysenior year more second semester

(27:52):
than first that people realized, oh, this might actually be an
issue.
And then that is when theystarted doing an AI policy,
which was you can use it, fine,just tell us when you use it.
It's probably going to be wrong,so you can use it, and if it's
wrong, that's on you.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
That's what I think is great.
I mean, that's what I did whenI was teaching too, and I would
teach statistics courses.
I mean, I'm not going to—whyoutlaw people using it.
They're going to use it anyway,right?
I mean, I think you agree thateven if the instructor tells
them not to use it the professortells you not to use it You're
going to go and do it.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
So if you cite it—, yeah, go ahead.
I had a few professors thatwould stuff.
We're asking like, hey, how canwe use this to help you guys
learn?
So for one of my history, uhprofessors, I uploaded all of
our course textbook into avector embedding and did into
like a little custom gpt andsent him the link so you could
ask about any of the informationand we'll respond to you.

(28:44):
And then you could.
I uh recorded a few of hisclasses through the transcripts
into a, into a large contextwindow model how to describe how
we spoke and then, through thatas the system prompt, into a
custom gpt so you could answeris in his voice in his voice,
with the correct, with the sameknowledge that he gave us for it

(29:05):
, and we could do that.
So there were people thatactually cared to try to make
this beneficial, and then otherswere just like who cares it'll
be useful in the future, andothers that just didn't even
think about it and it was whatit was.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, I think it's the right approach to try to use
it as a tool, because just likeany other I mean just like any
other thing like it has its uses.
But there's places where italso still has shortcomings.
It's gotten a lot better,obviously, but obviously, if you
asked Chad UBT something in thebeginning, especially with math

(29:37):
, like with high level mathproofs it was not very good at
math proofs in the beginning.
It's gotten better over time.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
But it's oh, one should be great.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's still.
It's still occasionally, ifit's, you know, like a graduate
level you know real analysisquestion, it'll tell you
something wrong.
That's that's you know and itwill give you some things with
you know certainty almost.
But I mean, for the most partit's gotten really good at doing
those, but in the beginning itwas pretty bad.
Like it.
I did the fundamental theoremof calculus and it gave me a

(30:04):
proof that was not completelyright.
So you know, but that was likereally early days.
Like you said, it was doingthat a lot.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I think the other thing is you have to still do
part of the work yourself.
You can take out the last stepof writing, but if you want to
do an essay for you, for example, you still need to give it the
sources, you still need to giveit the information, you still
need to come up with your ownthesis, and then you can feed it
the structure, what argumentsyou want it to do.
No-transcript, and I don'tthink schools are teaching the

(30:39):
proper way to use it, which isthat you do the logic yourself
and let it write it for you.
Who cares about that?
There's no value to you as astudent to do that.
But the upfront logic is wherethe actual value is.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Right, yes, I agree, I mean, I use it a lot for
coding, like for you know, likeweb programming, like HTML and
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Oh yeah, Create a JavaScript cursor.
You add to it.
It's great.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Because I don't know those languages perfectly, but I
mean I can tell it what I wantand I know enough of the
languages, like I can debug thecode.
If there's something in there,fix it, but it'll write lines
and lines of code that you don'twant to spend writing yourself.
So I feel like as using a toolto do the grunt work.
It's great for almost any task,and so you know we should.
We should really probably teachit at the university level as a

(31:21):
tool like there.
Maybe should be like agenerative AI like course at
some point, because you know itis a useful tool just like any
other.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
I think there needs to be a well at this point.
I think there needs to be awell at this point.
I think there just needs to belike a generally agreed upon way
to teach it that you can giveto elementary school, middle
school, high school, because atthis point they're going to be
using it.
So you need something at thatlevel to kind of bring up to the
college level, where maybe youdon't have to mention it because

(31:50):
it's already assumed.
But there needs to be some sortof relatively standardized
guidelines, maybe by state,maybe by district, just
something where it gets you frompoint A to point B without
having to reteach the same thingover and over again.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
I agree.
Yeah, I'm going to teach my sonmy son's four and a half so I'm
going to try to start.
I mean, I've already startedteaching him a little bit.
We play with Pixel Studio onthe Pixel 9 Pro and he loves,
you know, typing in descriptionsand generating images.
So I try to teach him a littlebit about what's happening.
But you're right, I mean, theyounger kids need to learn so
that they're not using as a toolto replace thinking, because
that's my biggest concern.
It's like I don't want, youknow, we don't want people to

(32:18):
replace their own thinking,research capabilities, like you
said, feeding them all thesources, giving them the logic
of the structure of the codethat you wanted to write.
That's like that's the thinkingpart that you don't want, you
know, chat, gpt or any of thosemodels to do.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
And these reasoning models, I think, are they're
starting to do it.
I mean, opening eyes on one isa reasoning model that kind of
does the chain of thought tothink for you.
But that's again that starts tohit weird points, where I think
it was Sam Altman who went onto an interview and said you
know, there was a point where itwas fun to get to this point
where you had to still think andyou had to still do things

(32:53):
daily, and that was fun.
There was an enjoyment toworking daily towards an end
goal.
What happens when it can justdo it for you?
Where do you come in there?
Where's the personal enjoymentthere?
And I think some of the 01models, where it can actually
start to reason and thinkinstead, is hitting a weird
point where we want AGI, whereit can do anything, but we also

(33:14):
want to do stuff ourselves.
So where do you have it get upto a point where you can finish
the task, but it gets you fromsteps one to 27,.
Then you have to do 28, 29, 30.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Right, yeah, that's a great way to look at it.
I think there's a small chancethat we end up getting federal
legislation right now, becausethe federal government's not
good at legislating tech as youas you know, they shouldn't do
it but maybe at the state levelor the local level we can get
like schools, I mean like interms of getting like a
standardized, you know,curriculum yeah, it's gonna be
on the stool at that point.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
I don't think you want.
As soon as you start trying toget that federally, then you're
going to get into a full game ofwell, why don't we just stop it
from being made in the firstplace?
That can do this, and then youhave out-regulated any
innovation.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I agree.
So do you think Samsung?
I mean, I assume they will.
But do you think Samsung, sinceApple obviously is building
ChatGPT into iOS, are they goingto bring ChatGPT to One UI?
I mean, or is that going to bea weird?

Speaker 2 (34:11):
thing, but they have.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Gemini?
Yeah, they have Gemini.
So you don't think ChatGPT willexist integrated with Samsung,
I think you have to look at itdifferently.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
It's not that ChatGPT is built into iOS.
It's that ChatGPT is accessiblein iOS.
You still need the appinstalled.
You don't necessarily need anaccount to go on any of the good
features.
You need an account.
It's accessible in macOS andiOS.

(34:40):
It's not built in.
You still need to download theapp, you still need to do
whatever, and it's still Appleintelligence first with hey, it
can access chat GPT to do things.
Apple intelligence can't.
I think Samsung's using Googleto fill in those gaps, right, I
mean, they are.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
If you look at, almost every model provider
outside of live translate isyeah, and there was actually an
article that we just wrote onSammy Guru that they did some
data set.
Samsung posted that thefavorite Galaxy Eye feature so
far cited by users in Korea wasCircle to Search, which isn't a
Galaxy Eye feature really.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
It's a Google feature .
It just came to every otherAndroid phone.
Xiaomi 14T was the firstnon-Samsung or Google feature
with it.
Yeah, so I mean it's like— oh,and Circle to Search can now do,
or technically, under theCircle to Search, Google Lens,
whatever.
You can now record a video andask it what's happening in the
video.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
That's really cool.
Oh yeah, no, that's cool.
Oh, can you?
You can record a video now withCircle to Search.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
It should be rolling out now but it's part of Google
Lens and that whole suite andCircle to Search is basically
just Google Lens.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
So technically then, because one of the things people
were really upset about in themost recent Samsung update in
One UI 6.1.1, samsung killed theability to create GIFs using
Smart Select.
They took the feature out andit made a lot of people angry.
So I was wondering if Circle toSearch would eventually add the
ability to create a GIF.
If it can record videostechnically, you should be able

(35:54):
to, maybe eventually have that.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
It opens in a new UI.
It's still not because itfreezes it in there, so you
don't miss anything.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Maybe it can, because it now does music in the
background.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Maybe that's yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
That's a Google question.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, they said they're going to add it back.
But yeah, I was surprised howmany people were upset.
I wouldn't think that that wasa highly used feature, but when
one of you asked me my questiondid it get around DRM?

Speaker 2 (36:17):
I think it might have .
Yeah, when if they're like, ifyou?

Speaker 1 (36:19):
could record.
Yeah, yeah, if you recordcopyrighted stuff from YouTube,
it will still.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, it doesn't like flag it.
That could be one of thereasons.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
So that's probably a good thesis.
I did not think about thatfully.
That's a good thesis.
That's probably why they gotrid of it.
They said they're going tobring it back and they had to do
some stuff.
Maybe that's the stuff that theSamsung team is working on for
Smart Select.
The other thing, too, is whatdo you think about charging

(36:52):
people subscription fees forthese AI features?
So Samsung made a pretty bigpoint several times this year in
the Galaxy S24 launch, whenthey first introduced it, and
then also they introduced theTab S10 series last week and
they put in the press releaseGalaxy Eye features are free
until the end of 2025, blah,blah, blah.
Do you think people areactually going to pay money for

(37:13):
these features?
I don't know about that.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think it's going to be bundled into something else
where, if you have Google One,you have access to it.
But the reason I also likeApple intelligence almost every
feature runs on device, almosteverything.
That's not true for Galaxy AI.
All of the photo editing is notdone on device.
The only thing done on deviceis there's like one feature
using Gemini Nano, which isMagic Composer.

(37:36):
That's the only thing.
And then you have LiveTranslate, which is, but
everything else is done on adata center and that costs money
.
You can't subsidize thatforever.
If it's on device, you can,because you don't have to worry
about it.
It's just throw out the update.
You're using the user's batteryand they're paying for
electricity.
That's the only cost to anyonefor it.
But when it's on a data center,that's expensive.

(37:57):
Tpus aren't cheap.
They're efficient, but when youhave millions of people doing
it I think they said 200 millionGalaxy AI users now that's
really expensive, yeah, and youcan't keep that forever.
I don't think people are goingto pay for it, because it's nice
when it's free.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
But no, no-transcript .
And obviously Circle to Searchis one of the most popular
features.
They might want to get somemoney out of that as well.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Circle to Search is just Circle to Search isn't a
Galaxy Eye feature.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah, I guess it's different search isn't the
galaxy ai feature?

Speaker 3 (38:31):
yeah, I guess different right.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
I agree that that will never.
You will never be charged forthat.
The galaxy ai features are likesummarization and recorder the
transcription.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
The magic editor, I don't think for circled search
well, I'm just saying thatthat's how samsung phrased it
when they, when they releasedthe thing about the most used
circle to search is always goingto be free, okay yeah, I mean
because that's a google feature,that's an app feature you
feature.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
It's free on the Xiaomi 14T.
No one's charging for anythingon there.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, I'm just saying , that's what that stuff will
always be free.
That's what Samsung said.
They said that Circle to Searchis the favorite Galaxy AI
feature.
They said in their little dataset that that's what people like
.
The best.
I'm just saying it's not.
It isn't a Galaxy AI feature.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
It's just funny that that will never be charged for.
And anything that uses GeminiNano will never be charged for,
because you're not going to lockthat behind a paywall.
It's dumb.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Don't ever do that, Because you want to get the data
from people, obviously forthose things.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
I don't think they're collecting much user data on
all this.
I think that's an option foryou to select.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
So you think they just want to get people to
upgrade to Gemini Advanced?

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I think they want to get people locked into google's
ecosystem.
The only way to use googlegemini advanced is to have an
account, use gmail as your mainemail account and gmail as your
main inbox, and google drive isyour file storage and google
docs for your documents and blahblah google flights to book
stuff, like.
I feel like this is moregetting people into the Google
ecosystem rather than collectingdata.

(39:54):
That makes sense.
They're not going to beindexing your Google Drive for
training data.
They just won't.
Maybe Google Photos if you wantthere, but they're not using
your Gmail.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, I think people would be pretty upset if they
were indexing their Google Drivefor training data.
I know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
So I don't think it's about data collection.
I think it's about gettingpeople to use Google services
and then charging for storageand then doing the upsell to
Gemini Advance.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
It's not about data.
I think there's too much dataand a lot of it's not going to
be good data.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
That's a good point, tori.
Are you going to pay if theycharge $5 a month for galaxy?
How are you going to pay them$5 a month?

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Uh, I mean, you know, as you guys were kind of
talking, I was kind of trying tothink of just like cause I was
thinking about this the otherday when I saw Disney plus is
now like if you have, um,someone else on your account
outside of your home to chargeyou $7 and 99, just like Netflix
yeah.
Yeah, yeah, just like Netflix, Ithink we are in that

(40:52):
subscription age and I mean, theaverage day consumer is just
being beat to the ground withsubscriptions, and so it really
is kind of like a competition ofwhat are you going to pay for,
and kind of like, as we're kindof thinking about that S Pen.
It's kind of nice at first whenyou're using it, but over time

(41:13):
it's competing with other thingsthat are happening in your life
and I think right now it'sreally nice because it's free
and AI is on the rise, but I'llbe very hard-pressed that most
casual people who own Samsungswill pay for that.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
I don't think so either.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
What if it was bundled with Gemini Advanced and
you just got it, if you alreadysubscribed to Gemini Advanced?

Speaker 3 (41:42):
You know, I think people who are probably already
using Gemini Advanced yeah, theywould probably keep it, but I
don't think any regular JoeSchmo who just has a Samsung.
I don't foresee any like uh,regular, uh joe schmoe who just
has a samsung.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Um, I, I don't foresee them maybe if it's
bundled with google one.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Maybe like you get your google drive, yeah, but
google one, yeah, yeah so here'smy other question do you guys
use galaxy ai features every day?
Do you use it once a week?

Speaker 1 (42:10):
maybe once a week.
Yeah, yeah, I mean go ahead,tori, you go first.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
So, actually just to educate myself, because I just
started noticing this, WheneverI go to Google, it'll be, like
you know, waiting for it.
There's like a separate toppart that will give me like I
think is some AI-generatedresponse.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, they've had that for a little bit.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
It's like they try to give AI to answer your question
, if it's a question.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, so that's probably a generative search
experience.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, so mostly that.
But I just started noticing inmy top right-hand corner like,
oh, try Gemini, try Gemini, andI've never tried Gemini.
So yeah, I can't really speakon that.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
But what about the other Galaxy Eye stuff?
Have you used sketched imagesince you got 6.1.1 on the S22
Ultra?
Because you got it right?

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yes, no, I didn't get it, but no, I have not.
I have not used sketched image.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I mean, yeah, I would say like once a week and I mean
, obviously I run a SamsungYouTube channel.
I use it once a day, probablyfor making videos.
I have to do stuff for writingarticles, but for my personal
use, maybe once a week outsideof.
My son likes to play withsketched image, but that's it.
I mean, that's not for mepersonally.
Um, what about you?

(43:22):
What?
What AI feature?
Have you used any features?
Max on the galaxy?
I have you even tried, you know?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
when I used my s24 ultra for a bit like not really,
yeah, there was, it wastranscription and recorder and
summary, fine.
But I also never really feltlike the Galaxy AI features were
compelling.
I don't feel like most AIfeatures are compelling.
I don't think any on the Pixelare the only ones.
I really think is a compellinguse case is Siri, where it can

(43:48):
do anything your phone can do.
You don't have to think aboutit, you just ask it and it does
it.
And I think when you get intothis automation where it has
access it doesn't store, but ithas access to your data when it
needs to and can do anything youask that's when AI starts to be
compelling.
But rewriting stuff isn't useful.
Summarizing texts fine, maybe,but if I didn't have it I

(44:09):
wouldn't complain.
These are nothing to me.
Genmoji is cool not, you know,killer, but cool.
I want to be able to type inwhatever and just have the emoji
immediately created and sent tomy friend.
That's a cool feature.
But none of this is really likeoh, I need this in my life
outside of.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
I can tell it anything and it will immediately
work right, and pixel pixelstudio is cool too, but I mean,
I don't think anybody's usingthat after they get the phone
and try it for a few weeks andthen it's like it's not that
useful after a few weeks.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Well, the part about Genmoji which I liked is it's
already in the emoji window onthe keyboard.
You just start typing,searching for your emoji, and it
generates it for you.
There's no going out of yourway to do it.
You just search and it's there.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
That's a really nice feature, generated in real time,
yeah, yeah, I kind of want toask something.
As you're kind of saying, max, Istarted to think I feel like,
when people think of ai, peoplethink of like it, kind of like
what they see in tv shows andmovies, like it is just there
and I don't need to do anythingextra.
And the way you describe likethe apple ai, like you know,
whenever you know we, we get tolike a really good sweet spot
with it, like I think that'sgoing to do what people expect
ai to do, and it's not somethinglike just out of the way, like

(45:21):
like all the ai stuff, likewhich you're kind of
highlighting a point with us,like, yeah, those are cool
features for the samsung sorryfor samsung, but like man, I
need to go out the way and bedoing this very specific thing
to be using it versus like, yeah, if it's just integrated all
the way with my phone, like youknow, I just see a lot of people
using the Apple AI currently.

(45:43):
You know, just kind of thinkingas someone who's not on their
phone all the time.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Every time you get a text, it's automatically
summarized.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
I do like that Every time you get an email, it's
automatically in there.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
It has the summary for you.
If you miss group chats, it'sthere.
You get like this is stuff younever have to think about, it's
just there.
I do like the summary, thecurrent way it's built.
You can't do that.
You have to really go out ofyour way to build into Android
and I just don't think anyAndroid OEMs maybe Google will
do it in future versions but youhave to really go out of your
way to do it and I just don'tthink any OEMs are willing to do

(46:15):
it.
Period.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, I don't think any Android OEMs are going to do
that because they need to workwith Google too much to make
that happen.
Apple obviously has their ownOS.
It's a lot easier to kind ofcontrol all the pieces that they
need to.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
I know you can do it on Android.
It's the problem is appdevelopers might start
complaining first off.
Second, you have to.
Notifications work in adifferent way.
It's not as clean on Androidbecause sometimes you'll get
more On iOS.
It starts stacking yournotifications if you get
multiple from an app.
On android it doesn't.
It starts putting them intolike different android windows

(46:54):
until you close it, reopen it.
Then it starts stacking at thebottom.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Like you have to essentially rework how
notifications work on android,which actually I think google's
rumored to do with beta or uhquarter update 2 which I'm gonna
hate because I actually hatethe way ios notifications work.
That's actually one of thethings that keeps me on Samsung
and Android, because I do notlike just the notifications.
As you said, they're notgrouped really in any.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
It stacks.
All the apps are stacked ontoone app.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Yeah, I know Google is rumored to change it and it's
probably going to come toSamsung too.
That's probably going to be alittle upsetting.
I also heard next year Android16 is supposed to launch earlier
.
I read that yesterday.
Michelle Roman was saying thatQ2.
Yeah, that's pretty crazyBecause Samsung is actually
behind and Google is behind thisyear with Android 15.

(47:42):
Samsung has not released theOne UI 7.0 beta.
People have been complainingabout that.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
I don't think this is a bad thing.
I think trying to separateAndroid as an operating system
from vendors is a good thing,because maybe Android 16 is
available before the Pixel teamis ready.
You shouldn't hold back Android, especially with whatever new
features, platform updates youhave, just because Google isn't
ready.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, because developers need that stuff too,
obviously.
To start getting their appsready for the next platform, I
agree.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
But did you see?
The rumor name of Android 16 isBaklava, baklava, yeah.
And people were saying, yeah,sorry, yes, they're saying that
this means the end.
So I think this is Google's wayof saying look, we're going to
fully rework Android after 16.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Yeah, I remember there was always the rumors
about what was going to happenonce they got to the end of the
alphabet A long time back.
There was the whole thing aboutwhat was it?
Fuchisa OS?
Is that what they call it?
Fuchsia, fuchsia?
Yeah, I'm sorry mymispronunciation there.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
That was a kernel to replace Linux.
They've more or less done awaywith it on Android, I think it's
.
Now it's powering little iotdevices.
I don't think they'll bring itback right because linux just
works.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
It's easy yeah, I think for a while there was a
thing that that was going to belike a front-end like ui ui that
would replace android's ui.
I don't think that was.
That was just a cut, so allthose rumors were no.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
That was just a custom ui built on top of the
kernel to give a demo of hey,this is what we could do running
our custom kernel.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
But I do think it's time for maybe a rework of a lot
of the way the architectureworks on Android, like you said.
Not that I'll necessarily likeit if they rework the
notifications, because thatcould improve some things, like
you said, in terms of bringingit more in line with how iOS
works for like siloingnotifications.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
But from my perspective, android was built
really well to just do newversions of the phone every year
.
But now when you're starting toadd in, you have whole new
platform features like AI thathave to be added in year over
year.
It's just better to start freshand rework the entire operating
system from scratch.
Have developers go do whatthey're doing and essentially

(49:46):
rebuild Android into Android 2.0, if you want to put it like
that and start rebuilding theplatform to be more
future-proofed, where maybe wecan just throw.
If a new groundbreaking thingcomes out, we can just throw it
on top and everything alreadyworks.
Where iOS works like that,android doesn't.
So I think there's no way tojust build that into every nook
and cranny of Android.

(50:06):
You have to start fresh.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
I mean you can, but it's easier just to start fresh
If they called it Android 2.0,that'd be really confusing for
people, since we already had no,no, it'd have to be the new
Android or something like that.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Google knows what they'll do.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
It'll be a naming scheme disaster, what do you
think about?
There's one other thing Iwanted to touch on.
We haven of stuff I wasplanning to, but, uh, in terms
of, like, the chinese androidoems.
One of the reasons that samsungis able to kind of do whatever
they want in terms of doingnothing, in terms of year over
year iterative hardware upgradesanyway, is because they don't

(50:38):
have a lot of competition in theus anyway.
Here they can kind of coastalong in terms of, you know,
android competition.
Um, do you think any of thosechinese oems will eventually
sell in the us?
There's been so many rumorsover I can't remember how long
ago, you know, huawei wassupposed to and then they got
banned by the government.
Uh, xiaomi, at one point Ithink people were saying we're

(50:58):
gonna bring phones here thatnever happened for years, would
say they were going to and neverdid yeah, yeah, saying and
saying they they won't.
Yeah, I know they won't, so so,yeah, it's kind of you know.
I think I feel like they havethe best chance right, xiaomi
have the best chance againstSamsung if they came here,
because they have they have apretty refined hardware and
software.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
I mean obviously the Chinese version of the skin is
good.
It's the same as the global,it's just.
You've had Google apps and I'veused both all the time.
The Chinese version of the skinis identical, but I think
there's a lot of things thatcome into it.
There's a lot of differentelements.
Let's say you shall, we want tolaunch into the millions per
carrier.
Then you need to get registeredby the FCC.
Then you need to get registeredby different regulatory bodies,

(51:53):
then you need to set up arepair program in the US with a
warranty, then you need to setup a US support system to it.
This ends up being it probablycost you $50 million to set up
all of the infrastructure justto launch one phone where you
will most definitely lose money.
And then the next generationyou lose money.
And then the next generationyou lose money.
It's you'll burn cash fornegligible market share and

(52:16):
appeasing fans.
It genuinely is not worth it.
I think the only reason OnePlusdoes is because they they did
it at the right time where theycould build out that
infrastructure and relationships, where it was cheap, and now
that it's here, it's whatevercost, to do it.
Maybe they'll break even, maybethey won't, I don't know, but
it looks good for OPPO andOnePlus to say, hey, we're
shipping in the US and peoplelike it, and they're in Best Buy

(52:38):
and people do like it, butright now no other brand could
reasonably, without burning,let's say, half a billion
dollars, launch in the US and doanything close to like matching
nothing, which I don't eventhink is doing that well in the
US.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Right, yeah, nothing.
People seem to like nothingphones, but I've seen they don't
have a large market share.
It seems like I mean.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
No, they do in India.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
They're doing really well.
Oh yeah, in India, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
It's just Just US and Europe.
It's iffy.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah, I haven't seen a ton of people even like tech
enthusiasts.
I mean, I saw some people inthe beginning when the brand
first launched, but since then Ihaven't heard a lot of people
saying they use the Nothingphone, the earbuds, though
people seem to like the Nothingearbuds.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
I love the earbuds.
Yeah, people seem to love those.
The Ear Open I have.
They're great.
Yeah for the quality.
How much are they?

Speaker 1 (53:25):
They're not that expensive right, they're pretty
good quality for the price.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
Nothing.
Ears are like 150.
And genuinely I can't wear thembecause of the comfort.
There's something about theshape that hurts my ears, but in
terms of sound quality and justlike overall ecosystem, easily
on, like just a step belowAirPods, I would say on part of
Galaxy Buds.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
All right, yeah, that's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Yeah, what I assume you use AirPods Pro as your main
buds.
Is that what you use for yourmain buds?
Yeah, so these are the onlyones outside of, like Pixel Buds
2, which, by the way, soundawful that don't hurt my ears.
So I'm wearing a lot of theseearbuds.
For more than 45 minutes it'slike a stabbing pain in my ear.
Everyone's a little different.
I just can't wear those.
Airpods are the only ones thatwork for me.

(54:04):
Airpods are the only ones thatwork for me and OnePlus Buds.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Yeah, that's the thing about Buds.
Right, it's not necessarily ifyou like the sound it's about if
you can wear them if they don'tfall out.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
That's what works.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Yeah, if they don't fall out when you're in the gym,
because a lot of Buds you knowfall out of your ear when you're
in the gym.
You tried the Pixel Buds 2 Pro.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
They're not them.
I have a pair that I need topick up from UPS.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
I was hoping they'd be good.
Oh, I got the wintergreen colortoo.
Yeah, they're not good.
That's too bad.
No, these are great.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
So the thing I'll say is, when you turn off ANC and
transparency, they sound fine,but as soon as you turn on ANC
or as soon as you turn ontransparency, sound quality
drops and it's just.
The sound is not good.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
you can be fixed with an update, but it's just not
good that's terrible, because Imean, of course, the anc is one
of the main use cases, for Ifind the anc really good.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Some people have said sometimes it can actually make
background sound louder.
But yeah, I don't know, Ihaven't used them that long.
All right, just can't get overthe sound quality.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
We're coming up on about an hour.
Tori, what else?
Do you have any questions forMax?
I'll go to the Q&A from otherpeople that have sent in some
stuff, but I'll try to pull itup.
Anything else you want to chatabout with Max?

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Yeah, just overall, I am really blown away with just
how you're able to talk back andforth between Apple and Samsung
and Google.
You just seem veryknowledgeable in that.
And so just to kind of go backto something we were kind of
talking about earlier, like mygirlfriend, she's a hardcore,
you know, apple person.
She finds Samsung likeintriguing.

(55:46):
But I was starting to kind ofthink about like I feel like
once to get those people over on, you know, to Apple, I can kind
of see it now where, likethey're just not going to get
those people back.
I like to think maybe it'sbecause they're already in the
Apple ecosystem and you have,like all your family.
They also use FaceTime, likeyou know.

(56:06):
There's just a lot of thingsthat are just once you get
behind that wall, um, you know.
And so I think for a samsungpeople, um you know, like what
are, like you know, we couldjust talk to the head of samsung
mobile person right now will belike top three things you think
samsung should probably justfocus on instead of just trying

(56:29):
to win people over.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah, I, I don't know .
I think you have to worry aboutlike hardware for a lot of the
software experiences Fine Peopleare.
I'm not content with Samsung.
I think the reason I stoppedusing Samsung is I think their
software went downhill.
I you don't like the change?

Speaker 1 (56:49):
from when one ui first came about, or I think one
ui hit I wrote an article forandroid.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Please saying this feels like a really cheap
chinese phone skin when chinesephone skins were bad.
Now I say they're like topshere most of them are but I when
it first came out it felt likea bad clone of it, trying to hit
the Chinese market and get aweird unique middle ground of
iOS and it just fails on allfronts.
I know people swear by it andthe customizability.
Good luck whatever.

(57:15):
I think it misses every markand I think it's a bad user
experience.
I don't like when you lie.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
That's going to be blasphemy here, max.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
I know People love it but when you've used anything
else you start to realize allthe little places.
This just doesn't feel right.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
So you don't like GoodLock at all.
What's wrong with GoodLock?
I liked the original one onAndroid 6.
You don't like the fact that itdoesn't feel optimized with the
rest of the UI.
Or what don't you like aboutGoodLock in general?

Speaker 2 (57:47):
I don't care about the customization.
I don't want to have to go outof my way to make the UI work
for me.
I want it to work for me out ofthe box and check every mark
for almost 99% of people.
And then these little thingshere and there I want to be able
to change myself.
I don't want to have to go andspend the three, four, five, six
hours to to make it work how Iwant.
At that point I'm going to putdown the phone, pick up a Pixel,

(58:07):
an iPhone, a OnePlus, a Xiaomi,anything else, and just use
that because it's already there99, for almost 90% of the things
I want.
So you don't think, I don't wantto have to go out of my way.
You don't think there's any.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
There's a good point to have it, but have the stock
system work I've said that for awhile to build some good lock
features into one UI like thestock one UI not even build it
in, just make it by default,have it a good UI and then leave
all this stuff as an option.
But don't you think, like I mean, are you saying that people,
that maybe we shouldn't givepeople the option in one UI to

(58:40):
have like a custom icon back?
I think the reason Samsung doesthat in good lock is because
they don't want to overwhelmpeople in like the stock.
Look, you can put does that ingood luck is because they don't
want to overwhelm people in likethe stock.
I'm not saying that.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Look, you can put it into the stock functions.
You can do whatever you want.
I think the stock functions,how they are, are bad.
I think the stock design isawful.
I don't like how notificationswork.
I don't like any of the Samsungapps.
I don't like the UI.
I don't like their font.
I just don't like it.
It not as good as everythingelse.
I've used everything and Ithink Samsung is the worst.
This is my opinion on it.

(59:09):
I'm not saying it's bad, I justdon't like it.
I think in my ranking, deadlast, everything else is better.
I don't want to have to go outof my way to change these things
.
It should just be how good.
So fix that.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
But can you change the font easily on the iPhone
without?

Speaker 2 (59:26):
No, you don't need to because the font is fine out of
the box, okay.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
That's my point.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
I shouldn't have to change things because everything
is already good.
That's fair.
You just don't like it OnSamsung.
That's not true.
Things aren't good and you haveto change them to be good, okay
.
And anyone that picks up aniPhone is going to be happy with
almost everything how it is.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
That's not true for Samsung.
People have to go and changethings.
I don't like that.
The data supports that, sincethere are a lot of people who
are complaining about One UI, soI mean we can't say that.
That's not the case.
Supposedly, in 7.0 they'remaking a lot of changes, so
maybe you'll like it.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
I mean, from what we've seen from the leaks, maybe
I'll like it.
I hope I'll install it day.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
It seems like also that maybe they're trying to
copy iOS again too, which Idon't know.
That that's necessarily.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
No, that's good, do it, but you obviously think
that's great.
Not the bad parts.
No good parts, not the badparts.
You can copy Google, do it.
If you just throw straightPixel OS, it's not Android stock
anymore.
Just throw straight Pixel OSand I'll be happy.
I don't care, just anythingbetter than how it is.
I just do oxygen os fromoneplus.
I don't care, just anythingbetter than one of the chinese

(01:00:29):
manufacturers.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
You said the chinese skins are the same as global,
but they they really throttlelike notifications and such.
Don't you find that the casewhen I?

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
use.
No, that's.
That's not what I meant.
I meant the design is the same.
Okay, the the notifications arethe back end when google yeah,
that's different because allthis stuff is everything's run
through google's back-endservices to do uh, fire Firebase
for notifications and Google'sbackend services.
When that's not installed as astock app, android's native
battery functions can kill it inthe background.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
On Android phones because it doesn't need to have
Google.
They don't install it, so itkills it in the background and
then refreshes like any normalapp would.
But most normal apps use theFirebase notifications through
it, so everything's delayed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, all your stuff is terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Yeah, but when you install that on the global
versions as a system app,everything works with the same
UI and it functions properly.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Right, yeah, that's why I always feel like when I
get the Xiaomi phones, I alwaystry to get the global one if I
can.
It's usually not out first, butif I can get it later, don't
get the first one, wait for it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Trust me, not out first, but if I can get it,
don't get the first ones.
You wait for it.
Yeah, trust me, wait for theglobal versions.
Yeah, I know you want to docontent first.
It's not worth it wait for theglobal yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Um, what about I?
I asked this question too,because we were talking about
this with smart watches.
I know you probably use theapple watch as your main watch.
A lot of people are surprised.
I also, however, a long timeuse the Apple Watch Ultra as my
main smartwatch because I findthat the Samsung watches don't
send you notifications in realtime.
Have you ever noticed this?
When you test Samsung watchesor any Android watch, it seems

(01:01:57):
like also maybe Android'sbattery management.
Like I don't get like a lot ofmy social notifications.
I mean I get probably more,just like you do, more than the
average person because of what Ido but I won't get X
notifications for likes orsometimes mentions on my Galaxy
Watch Ultra, but I always getthem on the Apple Watch Ultra,

(01:02:18):
so I don't know, have you evernoticed?

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
this I have, and I think the other thing with that
is notifications are delayed onAndroid.
I don't know why.
I think it has to feeddifferent pipelines and it just
takes a second where it's notconstantly refreshing.
Ios is better at that.
But I also think the otherthing is just the apple watch is
top tier best watch periodhands down.
You can't argue.
The apple watch is the best interms of like software ecosystem

(01:02:44):
, whatever, and once you've usedan apple watch, it's really
really hard to use anything else.
You try to and then you noticeall the little things here and
there that don't match andyou're like why am I using this?
I have an apple watch in mydrawer well, max, you're gonna
get lots of uh tags for peoplewho listen to the show

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
luckily it's only.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
It's only our 15th episode, so we only have about
1500 people listening each.
I'm glad it's not bigger yet,so that way you don't have to
deal with too many.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
I think I have good reasons for everything and I can
usually back up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
I know we're enjoying chatting with you.
One last thing I'll ask beforeI get to there's two questions
that I saw in a couple of theQ&A threads I started.
What about the smart rings?
I know you you liked.
You used the aura ring for awhile.
Did you try the galaxy ring atall?

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
No, cause I don't really use Android phones.
It's my main device.
It's hard to do it.
I always have them on me.
But the other things I don'twear.
Rings I don't like the feelingof rings.
Yeah, I, I.
It doesn't fit for me.
It's the same thing with smartglasses.
I don't wear glasses.
I don't need glasses.
I'm not going to wear smartglasses.
I don't care to test thingsthat aren't useful for me.
I don't have a good opinion onit.

(01:03:50):
I can give you one.
It's just not a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Do you wear your Apple Watch then when you sleep,
though, for sleep tracking?

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Yeah, I use it for sleep tracking, but I also have
a Whoop.
I love my Whoop.
This thing weighs nothing,tracks everything.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
You don't even have to Facts can hold it up again.
It's like a smart ring.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
It's just a little puck.
Oh cool, that's kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
It's kind of like does it do pretty much what the
smart ring, what the Galaxy Ringdoes as well?

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Yeah, it does.
I would say it does more thanthe Galaxy Ring they.
But the subscription includesthe hardware, which I think is a
good way to do it.
You don't buy upfront hardwareand then pay more on top.
It is, let's say, $240 a year.
Hardware is included.
If they do a new version, youget that.
If it breaks, they'll ship youa new one overnight.

(01:04:37):
I've forgotten my batterysomewhere and they overnighted
me a battery to my house at thehotel I was at just because I
didn't get to charge it.
Whoop support is really goodand the subscription you do get
a lot from it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
That's actually a pretty good way to do it yeah.
If you automatically getupgraded to the newest hardware
every year.
I mean $240 a year.
It's not every year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
The Whoop 4, it's been about four years on the
same hardware or whatever, andthey've been doing about new
features every month, still justwith the current data and the
amount of data it collects, too,too, yeah, it's, uh, I thought
they.
The it tracks biomarkers, Ithink five of them, a hundred
times a second.
The next closest is uh, pixelwatch and samsung at once a

(01:05:17):
second wow, oh, wow, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
So I mean if you, if you want to track like the
health stuff at a granular level, it seems like that might be.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
It has a chat gpt integration too.
So if you don't know whatsomething means, you just type
it in and ask and it will pullfrom your data.
It'll pull from the whoop likedatabase of information and
answer your question for you andexplain it oh, maybe I need to
check one out, I mean yeah metoo, so you you wear it on the
other the other wrist, I guessopposite your smart.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Yeah, yeah, you can do that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
But they also have bicep bands, make clothing.
You can put it in a pair ofunderwear that just goes on your
hip If you're swimming.
They make swim trunks with it.
They make shirts with it too.
You can put it anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
They have like certain places you can put it.
There's a lot of options youdon't have to.
That's very cool.
Yeah, I saw you posting somehealth stuff, so, um, yeah,
let's uh, let's see.
There's two Q and a questions.
I mean, since you just uhleveled everybody with all the
Samsung hate, these are going tobe Samsung questions.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
So I'm sorry, it is a Samsung podcast Constructive
criticism.
I know, I'm just kidding, we'rejust playing.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
So Samsung's?
Apparently this story was fromjust last night.
Apparently, samsung is going toget rid of the base model for
the Galaxy S26.
So not this January, but thefollowing January.
What do you think?
Do you think that's a good idea?

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
I have kind of thought that that's a good idea
for a while now, because I meanthe base model has so many, yes,
and then replace a good ideafor a while now because I mean
the base model has so manyplaces with the s26 fe.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
yeah, that's a great idea actually, yeah, really good
idea, because the price of thes26 or the whatever the lower s
model is, every year is so closeto the fe.
The fe doesn't make senseanymore, don't you kind of agree
?
I mean, they just released itand it's like no, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
And then you could also do like a little gap where
it's probably fe.
Let's assume we're gettingprice increases between then.
Do that feel like 700, the plusat like 11 and the ultra 12, I
think that's, or not a lot ofthousand?
13 or 11, 13, 7, I think that'sa good one.
300 to get to a plus and getrid of the branding.
So just call it s26, thenthat's 26.

(01:07:23):
Ultra, do you?

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
same size, 6.5 inches , and yeah, I think that works
out well actually yeah, and Iwas also thinking, you know, it
would also be nice this issomething else we talked about
is if they would try to put thesame cameras on the plus, that's
, on the ultra, because theultra I mean really no, you
can't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
It's the thickness, it's lenses, it's cost.
There's too much to it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
You think that's not gonna happen yeah, I guess maybe
.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
I think, if you look at a lot of the reason why you
don't even get in foldables isthere's two reasons you can't
dissipate heat from the sensorsand you need the sensor.
There needs to be more space inthe uh, x or z axis to actually
yeah, you're talking about theflagship cameras on the
foldables.
Yeah, yeah you just can't, evenon thinner phones like the s24s.
There's always a good reason.

(01:08:06):
I wouldn't necessarily say thisoutside of apple but and to
some extent google, but outsidethere's there's usually a reason
why they don't do it.
Outside of cost and marketingthere's usually a reason, and I
think it's going to be gettinginto the z-axis.
This is a thicker phone, right?
Those protrude more.
It's just harder to do.
And then, even if you do it forthe smaller lenses, if those
protrude more, you need torework the camera range.

(01:08:29):
It becomes more expensive.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
It's just, and you're thinking they probably wouldn't
want to make the s24 plus ors25 plus thicker, right, I mean
because they could do that, Iguess, and then try to get the
camera in there, maybe you couldbut then that gets into.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Like well, at that point why wouldn't I buy the
ultra?
And what's the point of thisexisting and the sales drop for
that one?
People get the Ultra, sure,that's good, but then they're
manufacturing phones no one'sgoing to buy and it looks bad
for them in terms of the marketand business and market
perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
And then carriers will get mad because they bought
a bunch of SKUs and fun stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
I think getting rid of the S26 makes a lot of sense,
though I think we can agreeBecause the FE comes out at such
a weird time.
It just came out right now likewhy would I buy the s24 fe when
I could buy an s25 in january?
It's almost the same price, Imean there's not a huge
difference between them.
I think a lot of peopleprobably won't buy s24 fe.
I mean it seems like it's not apopular phone here, but it
might be because of when theyrelease it, in relation to the

(01:09:21):
next s line at least, I meanfrom what I've seen, it's not
very popular yeah, um, the lastquestion, that um too, which was
, I think was on YouTube orTwitter.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
See if I can find it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Someone was asking oh , this is a question that was on
Twitter but also that I had putin there about us to discuss.
We kind of already discussed it.
Do you think that Samsung needsa leadership change in terms of
?
You know, a lot of people don'tlike TM row, for whatever
reason.
Samsung circles I kind of madea joke about this on X.
It seems like a lot of peoplewant to get rid of him.
Do you think that getting ridof him would really help Samsung

(01:09:57):
in any way?
It seems like your thesis sofar has been that that probably
wouldn't help, because even ifsomeone more innovative came in,
it probably wouldn't help themget any more market share.
Do you think it would help themkeep users?
Do you think he's doinganything?

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
particularly wrong as the head of Samsung Mobile.
I honestly couldn't answer that.
I don't know.
If you look at the products,the stuff under him hasn't been
as good, but I don't necessarilythink that means he's bad.
So I struggle to make a commenton that because I just don't
know.
Think that means he's bad I.
So I I struggle to make acomment on that because I just
don't know fair enough I can'tanswer that one for you yeah,

(01:10:34):
fair enough yeah there's a lotthat goes into leadership, even
outside of fame.
It goes into investors, samsung,family, career.
There's a lot of stuff and Ijust genuinely couldn't answer.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
I'm sorry that's a reasonable original answer.
If you don't know, then don't.
Uh, don't weigh in.
I mean we can, can speculate,but I think a lot of people's
hate for him is driven by thefact that they just haven't seen
products that seem innovative.
But since stuff is in thepipeline for so long, that
doesn't necessarily mean that heis even the person who
originally kind of stewardedthose products anyway.

(01:11:02):
I don't know that that's.
We have no idea.
Like you said, there's a lot ofthings that go into creating
products and people just see thefinal, final result.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of internal politics at
Samsung.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Yeah, certainly, yeah , certainly, samsung being like
the flagship company for Koreaas a whole, like they have to
carry the whole South Koreabanner at Samsung.
It seems like that they have alot of politics going on because
of that.
In fact, dj Ko himself he'sactually I think he's running
for office in South Korea now orsomething.
I believe he's actually runningfor a political office, so the

(01:11:38):
politics actually now arecompletely intermingled.
Otherwise, I think that's mostlywhat I want to chat about,
anything else, roy, I thinkwe've had a lot of fun.
Max, you've brought a differentperspective, constructive
criticism, as you call it fromthe opposite perspective of kind
of using Apple devices andusing other Android devices that
aren't Samsung.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
Yeah, and I wouldn't necessarily say opposite or bad,
it was just I used to likeSamsung and their direction
changed and I don't like it.
It's not for me.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
That's not to say it's not for others, it's just
not for me, yeah and I thinkit's interesting to get that,
because obviously most peoplewho listen to the podcast they
are already Samsung fans, butit's good to see why people are
leaving and so maybe we can tryto discuss how Samsung might
evolve people.
Whether we should or not,whether we have the insight.
Like you said, people love tospeculate on how they could
potentially improve.

(01:12:27):
So we appreciate you coming onand also maybe eventually we can
get you on again down the roadonce we've had a few more guests
and I can improve the videosetup here as well.
We made a little bit of lagthis time, but I think we made
it work, so we appreciate youcoming on.
Thanks Max.
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Yeah, of course, Thank you guys for having me All
right.
Thanks a lot.

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