June 20, 2025 • 59 mins
What happens when you pursue a dream for a decade, facing rejection six times, before finally achieving it on your last possible attempt? Carlehr Swanson, Miss Virginia 2024, reveals the powerful journey that transformed her from a shy music student into a confident state titleholder whose mission transcends the crown itself.
Carlehr's story isn't just about persistence—it's about the profound self-discovery that happens when you stop trying to become what others expect and finally embrace your authentic self. "Once I finally accepted this is who I am, this is what I can bring to this position, this is why I'm special...that acceptance led me to winning," she reflects. Standing on stage during her final attempt at age 28, rather than feeling desperate for the title, she found herself thinking: "I'm blessed either way."
Through her "Music is Unity" initiative, Carlehr shares how music became her bridge to connection when visiting her grandmother in rehabilitation. What began as personal performances evolved into a movement, partnering with organizations like Sing for Hope and Music and Memory to demonstrate music's power to unite communities and help those with memory disorders. One of her most touching practices? Standing by the door after school appearances to ensure every single child—especially the shy ones—has a moment to be seen and heard.
The conversation explores the challenges of balancing self-care with service, handling imposter syndrome, and finding purpose beyond performance. As she prepares to pass on her crown and resume her PhD studies in music, Carlehr leaves us with this perspective: "Move me out of the way—this is about the people I encounter along this journey." Her approach reminds us that our greatest impact often comes when we stop focusing on ourselves and instead become vessels for something greater.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Raeanna Johnson (00:00):
Hello everyone, welcome back to Sash and Soul.
I'm really excited and it's alittle bittersweet to bring you
the last episode of the Crownand Candid series this season,
but it is with a reallyexcellent person to share that
with.
I have with me today MissVirginia 2024.
(00:22):
This is Carlehr Swanson and heroverall message I can already
tell is going to be like woventhroughout.
This episode is the perfect wayto wrap up this series and pour
love and light into all of youas you go into whatever your
next venture is.
So I asked Carlehr what heroverall like legacy is and her
(00:43):
message, and she said just thateveryone she encounters sees
God's light.
She said move me out of the way.
This is about the people that Iencounter along the way on this
journey and I have chillsthinking about that because
that's such a beautiful visualto think about.
I'm just the vessel.
I'm just here doing amazingthings and hoping that people
(01:04):
feel special and loved along theway.
So with that, welcome Carlehr.
Thank you so much for joiningme, oh thank you so much for
having me.
Carlehr Swanson (01:12):
I'm excited.
Raeanna Johnson (01:13):
Yeah, it's going to be a good chat.
Tell us about yourself.
Carlehr Swanson (01:16):
Well, I am from Richmond, Virginia, the capital
of Virginia.
Born and raised and growing up.
Music and faith and educationhave all been a big part of my
life.
I started singing when I wassix years old and then I started
classical piano lessons when Iwas seven years old and I did
that from seven to 18, went offto college and I majored in
(01:38):
music.
And somewhere along the way Iwas performing at a funeral and
there was a pageant director inthe audience and she said wow,
you have a great talent, wouldyou like to do this pageant?
And I really didn't think muchabout it.
I said, oh, this would be great.
I get to perform my talent on abig stage, a lot of people will
(01:59):
see it.
I didn't think about like, oh,you're kind of shy and you don't
like speaking in front ofpeople or walking in front of
people.
But I said yes and I was secondrunner up in that pageant and
that was almost 10 years ago.
And it's been a dream come true, because in my high school
yearbook I wrote it that Iwanted to go to Miss America and
(02:21):
have this opportunity.
And it's really been just amanifestation of all of those
things coming together my faith,my education, music, so perfect
timing.
Raeanna Johnson (02:31):
Absolutely.
I'm all about the perfecttiming.
Everything lines up exactly howit's supposed to, and it's
amazing when you can look backon your journey and just see
where you've been placed incertain experiences or people
have been placed or situationshave been placed right in your
path in the perfect way for youto learn and grow or to access
some kind of a resource, and itsounds like maybe you've had a
(02:54):
similar experience with that.
Carlehr Swanson (02:57):
I have.
So, thinking about just myfirst involvement in pageants,
and then thinking about thelocal directors that I've
encountered along the way, andjust thinking about this time as
being Miss Virginia, I'm 28.
So this was the last time thatI could compete.
I've aged out three timesbefore this chance, so it was
(03:17):
just, you know, meant to be inthat way.
But also I'm a PhD student andI'm in the fourth year, so that
means I finished all of mycoursework, my qualifying exams,
so it was just the perfect timeto kind of take a detour and be
Miss Virginia for the year.
Raeanna Johnson (03:32):
How many times did you compete on the Miss
Virginia stage?
Carlehr Swanson (03:36):
I competed six times spanned out over the
course of 10 years.
Raeanna Johnson (03:42):
What was that like for you to come back over
and over and over again?
Carlehr Swanson (03:47):
It was difficult.
I think sometimes it's justhard to be in a field where
you're constantly being judged.
It's really easy to compareyourself to other girls and
throughout that journey Ithought like, maybe if I talked
more, maybe if I was more bubblyor if I looked like this or if
I did this or I dressed likethat.
So every year you're kind offinding ways to tweak things or
(04:10):
do things better, and I thinkwhat I realized that last year
was, yes, there's always thingsthat we can improve on.
But once I finally accepted,like, this is who I am, this is
what I can bring to thisposition, this is why I'm
special, this is what I canbring to this position, this is
why I'm special.
That acceptance, I think, ledme to winning and just having
this year, because I realizedthat the people that I'll
(04:32):
encounter this year, you know,need the things that I have.
They need, you know, the littlesilly quirks that I have, the
way I communicate with people,the way you know I interact with
them.
Raeanna Johnson (04:46):
So it was finally an acceptance of I am
enough to do this.
Yeah, I, I love like hearingabout everyone's experiences and
how they're different one yearafter the next at state, and
like what valuable lessons thatthey learned.
And I look back at myexperience too.
I competed for Miss Wisconsinfour times and every year was
just vastly different from theyear before, Did you?
Carlehr Swanson (05:05):
experience.
That too I did.
So I started Miss in eight.
So I did some years of teen andthen went right into Miss at 18
.
And that first year I went Iwas just like this is fun, I'm
just here to meet people and tohave the experience.
And then the second year I wentI was third runner up and I
didn't expect it and it was kindof a whirlwind.
(05:28):
But I think because thathappened unexpectedly.
The next year I was kind ofhyper-focused on okay, I was
third runner up.
That means I can win this if Ijust prepare properly.
And so I kind of psyched myselfout of it, kind of
over-preparing, over-analyzing,trying to turn into something
that I thought would be winning.
So that happened.
(05:49):
And then I did it again and Iwas third runner up and then I
was fourth runner up.
So it was kind of difficultbecause I said this is getting
worse and I'm putting all of myenergy into this, my community
service, my public speaking, allof these things.
And then I thought, okay, I'mdone.
I was third runner up twice Iwas fourth runner up.
(06:10):
I don't want to see how worsethis can get.
And I think I made all of theseexcuses of why I can't do it
again.
I can't do it again because ofschool, I can't do it again
because there's only one localpageant.
I can't do it again.
And all of those worries justkind of figured themselves out
and I ended up doing it again.
But again, it was just that,finally having that acceptance
of I'm enough to do this and arealization that I'm blessed
(06:34):
either way, like I don't needthe title to define me, like I'm
doing meaningful work.
I see the impact I'm having onmy community, the impact I'm
having in my PhD program.
So in that final moment of meand the first runner up, I was
truly thinking I'm blessedeither way.
Either way I'm going to beblessed and I have a blessing to
(06:54):
walk into.
Raeanna Johnson (06:56):
I think the journey can be so interesting
Sometimes.
I was thinking about this theother day that, like we, we do
pageants to grow and to become,you know, bigger, better
versions of ourselves, and tolike, improve and and to do
great things for the communityand for the people around us in
service, and to to build ourcareer and all of these really
(07:18):
amazing things.
And yet sometimes I think it'sreally common to lose ourselves
in it and it's when we findourselves again again that
everything just kind of worksout.
Carlehr Swanson (07:30):
Does that make sense?
It makes perfect sense.
I think that's definitely whathappened, I think, when I was 18
, I was just kind of carefreeand I just wanted to enjoy it
and soak in the process.
I had fun, I enjoyed it, Ilearned a lot, I grew and then,
soon as I started to hyper-focuson, okay, now what is everyone
else doing?
(07:50):
You know, what are all of thesedirectors saying?
What should people be doing?
Who did they pick last year?
Maybe if I did more like this, Iwill have a better chance and
that kind of just kind ofspiraled over the years,
especially being in the top fiveso many times and being so
close, yeah, but I think it wasfinally once I had that moment
of finding myself again.
(08:11):
What is my purpose?
I think the purpose really ledme back to just being who I am,
because that was one of thethings that I started Initially.
I got involved for performingand music, but that 18-year-old
passion was being around thegirls and the networking and
seeing everyone making adifference in their community
and knowing that I could make adifference.
(08:31):
So just kind of reuniting withthat purpose really helped me
just calm myself and showing upas my authentic self.
Raeanna Johnson (08:40):
What was going through your mind when you were
standing there as one of the toptwo?
What was going through yourmind when you were standing?
Carlehr Swanson (08:46):
there as one of the top two.
Strangely, I was very calm,which has never happened before.
Normally I can feel my breathinside my body and my chest
going up and down, but I wasjust very calm, Very calm, and
then just kind of realizing,okay, well, at least I did
better than the other time, soI'm not going out worse than it
(09:13):
started, but then just havingacceptance that I had did my
best, that I tried all I coulddo.
It was my last chance, so Ileft it all out there on the
stage, but again, just knowingthat I'm blessed either way,
that's what I kind of keptrepeating to myself when we're
waiting and they're listing allof those long things that they
list out, I was thinking I'mblessed either way.
Raeanna Johnson (09:30):
Yeah, and then your name was called as the
winner.
When did it hit you that it wasreal?
Carlehr Swanson (09:38):
I kind of had an out-of-body experience for a
moment, but I just immediatelystarted crying and I just
thought about that 10-yearjourney of thinking I wasn't
good enough or thinking Icouldn't do this, or spending
time trying to be someone else.
I felt that in that moment allof that hard work had paid off
and I realized that, you know,that process wasn't wasted.
(10:01):
You know it was just preparingme for that moment.
And then so I really love theMiss Virginia song.
We have a Miss Virginia songand all of those other years.
I would sit there and I wouldjust kind of sing the song and I
remember that I had a momentwhere I kind of came back and
I'm realizing everything that'shappening.
And then I just heard the MissVA and then I cried more.
Raeanna Johnson (10:25):
Was it anything like what you had dreamt it
would be.
Carlehr Swanson (10:28):
No, I mean I had seen the vision, I knew that
it could happen, there was apossibility.
But I didn't imagine howemotional I would be.
I didn't imagine how painful itwas initially not having that
moment.
I felt those were also a partof the tears, just having that
(10:49):
emotion from the years of liketrying and not accomplishing it.
I didn't imagine that I wouldjust have that overwhelming
sense of emotion.
It was uncontrollable.
Raeanna Johnson (10:59):
You had spent almost a decade at that point
going after this goal.
How similar and or differentwas the job from what you had
thought it was going to be.
Carlehr Swanson (11:12):
I think it was similar in that I knew what to
expect.
In ways I knew about our schooltour, so I knew I would be busy
every day of the week in thatway.
I knew about sponsor visits.
I knew about social mediaresponsibility.
I knew all of those things.
I think kind of what you said.
In the beginning I didn'trealize that.
(11:34):
I felt like I grew a lotthrough that 10-year process and
then, once you become a statetitle holder, there's kind of
more to that process, otherthings to grow.
So I think, um, I really foundmy voice throughout this year,
being more confident in myabilities and who I am and what
I bring to the table.
Um, and, I think, balancing.
(11:56):
I think I'm the type of personwho likes to just give their
full energy to something andthat's a great benefit, but also
realizing that you need time totake care of yourself and
blocking out time on yourschedule to have those moments.
So I think I realize it will bea busy, a full-time job, but
also realizing the ways that Istill need to grow.
Raeanna Johnson (12:18):
We do so much work to get ourselves mentally
prepared for the job and putourselves in the shoes of the
title holder and what is ourgame plan?
And visualize it, because weknow like that's, that's the big
picture, that's the focus, likewe're here for the job when
we're, you know, there forcompetition week.
But then you know, like you'resaying you get into it and I
(12:39):
think oftentimes, like we don'texpect that.
You know we're riding this highof, like I'm ready, I'm so
prepared, I can see myself doingthis.
And then you actually get thejob and you're like wait, what,
like, what am I doing?
Did you have moments of that?
Like I kind of want to call itimposter syndrome esque
experience.
Carlehr Swanson (12:59):
Yes, yeah, yes, and I think one great thing
that was really helpful I had aForever Miss Virginia, come what
she told me and I realized that, okay, I'm not alone in this.
(13:28):
Everyone must have had thatsame feeling if she thought it
was important to tell me that,and I think, just not feeling
good enough, not feeling worthy,starting to compare yourselves
social media, online forums, canbe very discouraging, so
shutting out the outside noiseand just focusing on how I can
(13:50):
do the best job because there isa little imposter syndrome that
happens.
But I realized the growthreally came from thinking okay,
if someone's saying this aboutme, why do I believe this is
true?
You know, it's not really theirproblem, it's my problem to
figure out.
You know what part of this do Ibelieve?
And so that was something thatwas really helpful this year
(14:13):
realizing, okay, it's not reallyabout what they think, it's
about what I think about myselfand how can I use this to figure
out why is this bothering meand how can I grow from that.
Raeanna Johnson (14:23):
That's a lot of internal work, Like that's hard
work.
Did you feel like you were?
I mean, how can I do with that?
And if it's not true, okay,then what do I do with like this
(14:53):
hurt that someone else may be?
Carlehr Swanson (14:54):
feeling this way about me, right, yeah, that
was really helpful advice toreceive.
Like, if people think, like ifyou feel like you're not good
enough and then someone says youknow you're not good enough or
you know just mean things thatpeople can say, why do you feel
like you're not good enough?
And then someone says you knowyou're not good enough or you
know just mean things thatpeople can say, why do you feel
that it's true?
Or why is this bothering you?
And I think that's where thegrowth came from, because I
think I've always been kind of atimid person or a shy person or
(15:17):
someone who's worried about amI doing a good job?
Do they think I'm doing a goodjob?
And this year was the firsttime I felt like I am doing a
good job.
I see the impact I'm having.
It's not really about whatother people think.
It's about you know what thenumbers say, what the impact
says, the lives that I'mtouching every day.
Raeanna Johnson (15:36):
Yeah.
Okay, I have not asked anyoneabout this yet, but what was the
most helpful thing that you hadreceived within your circle of
support throughout this journey?
Carlehr Swanson (15:48):
Definitely my Forever Miss Virginia sisters
telling me about their years,the things that they had
experienced, especially the onethat told me about you know,
later tonight you're going tofeel like what's happening,
what's going on?
Maybe I don't deserve this, butalso thinking about what about
this?
You know what people say oradvise.
(16:09):
Why is this resonating with you?
Why is this bothering you?
Always to challenge yourself,why is this bothering me?
And to also not being afraid tospeak out.
I think sometimes, as statetitle holders, you're a little
afraid.
You know you want, you're thebrand you want to be perfect as
you can be or as you can appearto be.
(16:30):
But I think, speaking youropinion, saying the things that
you like, or speaking up forother contestants, things like
that I think it's important tobe able to still have a voice,
even though you're the voice ofan organization.
Raeanna Johnson (16:45):
Still, have a voice, even though you're the
voice of an organization.
Yeah, I was just having aconversation with a client today
about honesty In interview, Ithink you know, as we're talking
about preparing for competitionand stuff, she's struggling
with not wanting to bemisunderstood about certain
aspects of her and I was like,all right, well, one of the key
(17:10):
things of being authentic ishonesty, and to be able to do
that, you also have to trustthat you're going to show up and
speak your truth in a way thatis respectful and that you can
trust that you will show upprofessionally and articulately
in that and I mean that's partof the work and part of the
skill building and stuff right,but that honesty, that honesty
with yourself and honesty withthe people around you, I think
is what makes you a raw and realperson as a title holder, not
(17:35):
putting on some kind of a face.
Carlehr Swanson (17:36):
Yeah, I think that's so important.
I think for me I don't likeconflict.
I'm very avoidant of conflictor just hurting people's
feelings or just saying thingsthat people might not like.
But I realize, as a titleholder, no matter how concerned
you are about people's feelingsor conflict, it still arises.
So it's better, like you said,to be honest, to confront these
(17:58):
things head on, and I think, assomeone who values their self as
an authentic person, it's againbeing able to be honest and to
be authentic even when it's asan authentic person.
It's again being able to behonest and to be authentic even
when it's not a happy situationor it's a conflict driven
situation.
Raeanna Johnson (18:13):
How did this idea of like move me out of the
way?
You know, this is about God'spurpose assist you in times of
conflict.
Carlehr Swanson (18:25):
Oh, yes, when I realized it wasn't about me.
You know, it was about thepeople that I meet.
You know the person that'sgoing to be Miss Virginia next,
doing his work in his kingdom,and I think it's something that
really started from being aperformer, because I think in
music you know someone's on astage and it's glitz and it's
(18:48):
glam and you're there toentertain people.
But I think it's important torealize that these gifts and
these talents that we use toentertain people, they aren't
for us and we don't drive them.
They're.
You know, like you said in thebeginning, we're being vessels.
So I think you know, knowing howimportant it is, especially
with the school tour that I'vegone on, that when I arrive at
(19:12):
these schools, yes, I missVirginia, but also you know what
am I saying to these kids?
I have an amazing opportunityto impact young people, to
change their lives.
It only takes one person to sayone thing that changes
someone's lives, and I have thisunique opportunity for a year
(19:32):
to meet thousands and thousandsof children.
So when I show up, I didn'twant to show.
Okay, I had to drive five hoursto get here and tomorrow I'm
driving five more hours and theschedule is very difficult.
I want it to be the best Icould be and just let that light
shine.
Raeanna Johnson (19:46):
I had an interesting question from a
client as well this week that Ilove to hear your perspective on
.
She asked what was one toolthat you used when you showed up
at appearances to leave a markor to be memorable.
Carlehr Swanson (20:03):
I love that.
I loved the school tour and thething about the school tour.
Sometimes I would have hundredsand hundreds of kids and so I
would ask them you know, doesanyone have questions?
And I couldn't get to all ofthem.
So once I realized you know thekids are sad when you can't get
to all of them, I startedstanding by the door at the end
of all of my school visits.
(20:24):
So as each child left, they gota chance to talk to me or just
tell me what resonated with them, or give me a hug or something
that they had drew, and Irealized that really made a
difference in the appearances,because some kids are a little
shy, like I was in school, somekids don't have a question, and
it gave everyone a moment to beseen and to have their voice
(20:46):
heard.
Raeanna Johnson (20:47):
That is beautiful.
It's like a receiving line andin so many ways, like what you
would do at the end of a churchservice or at a wedding where,
like you, just really take thatmoment to make sure that every
person is seen.
Carlehr Swanson (21:02):
That that's beautiful and I think, yes, it
was impactful for them.
They got to talk to MissVirginia, but I think it was
just so moving to me because alot of my community service
initiative I talk about mygrandmother, gladys.
So there were so many kids thatwould come up to me and say my
grandma's name is Gladys or Iplay a musical instrument or I
(21:25):
would ask what do you want to dowhen you grew up?
And they would ask really deepkind of provoking questions like
what if I don't know what Iwant to do?
Or so it was really moving tome to see like what I said
resonated with them, but alsothat it's a purpose in every
story that we share.
Raeanna Johnson (21:41):
And I think you had said this or alluded to
this earlier too like you'llnever really know the impact
that you leave.
But what a great way to havethat gentle reminder that just
showing up and being real andbeing open and being honest with
the people that you meet likecan really create these like
micro connections where theyjust find something in you that
(22:04):
they relate to, microconnections, where they just
find something in you that theyrelate to and that can be really
inspiring for people and it canbe really connective for people
when they maybe feel a littlebit more alone.
Carlehr Swanson (22:15):
Yes, and I think sometimes when you're a
state title holder, people arereally excited to meet you.
They're really excited, theyhave a lot of questions, they
want to know everything aboutyou.
But I've always made it a focusof mine whenever I have a
conversation with someone, Ilike to ask them more questions
than they ask me, and that I dothat because I want to know
(22:38):
their story.
I want them to know that, yes,you're interested in me because
I'm this figure, but I'minterested in you because you're
a human and I see your heartand I want to know more about
you.
So I always make it a focus Iwant to know about you, I want
to know your story.
Raeanna Johnson (22:53):
Earlier you talked about maintaining your
balance, because you always wantto do more and put yourself out
there more, and I think that isso common for women in
pageantry so common for women inpageantry.
And what did you do in timeswhen you felt a little burnt out
(23:14):
to recoup that energy?
And then what tools did youstart to use to maintain your
energy and your balance?
Yes, Okay.
Carlehr Swanson (23:21):
So praying was a big thing that helped me be
realigned during those times.
Going to the gym, just doingsomething to focus on me, making
the healthy choice.
Cooking is really difficult tocook when you're constantly on
the road.
So making those times to havehome cooked meals, staying
(23:42):
connected to my communitywhether that's talking to a best
friend in the car while you'reon a long drive or just making
time to have those familydinners and I think so that was
what I used in the beginning.
But what I started to do toavoid that burnout, just saying
no.
And I think, as a title holder,you don't want to say no.
(24:03):
You've waited all of this timeto have this moment.
You don't want to upset people,you don't want to let people
down in some cases, but it gotto a point where I was sick and
I was losing my voice, andthat's something very difficult
as a singer to experience.
So I realized, okay, yes, youcan go, go, go, but it's not
(24:25):
great for your health and youcan't pour from an empty tank.
So realizing that sometimes youhave to say no and it's okay to
take time off, it's okay toblock out the schedule and say,
okay, there's nothing going onthis day, maybe I'll go get a
massage, maybe I'll get a facial.
So really starting to be moreconcerned with the time and
(24:45):
knowing that it's not selfish tohave self-care time?
Raeanna Johnson (24:48):
How did your preparation for Miss America
look?
Carlehr Swanson (24:51):
It was a whirlwind, it was very exciting,
but also I had a school tour.
I've went to 70 schools overthe course of this year, so I
had that every day.
I had mock interviews everySunday virtually, and I had
walking on Wednesdays along withalterations to my clothing.
(25:11):
So it was very difficult in away, because the appearances
didn't stop, the sponsor visitsdidn't stop, but I think it
really taught me management andthat if you want to do something
, you can do it.
Because I was in the car havinginterview prep or listening to
the news, I really learned howto manage my time in a useful
(25:35):
and effective way.
Yeah, it was a whirlwind and Ithink the funniest part about
this process is that I had adress that was made and on
Christmas Day I was picking itup.
On Christmas Eve I was gettingthe final touches.
So it's when you want to be astate title holder is just, you
(25:56):
see the glitz and the glam, butit's really, you know, being
somewhere on Christmas daygetting your last fitting,
trying to fit everything in, tobe the best that you can be, no
matter, you know what time it is, what the schedule looks like,
yeah, it's really interestingthat you brought up like the
holidays and giving up time onyour holidays with family and
and your traditions, Cause I wasjust going to ask you what did
(26:18):
you sacrifice throughout youryear that you're excited to to
get back in your life after thenext couple of weeks are up?
Ooh, um, being very, being veryinvolved in school.
So at school I'm a PhD student,but all of our PhD students we
teach a course, so I'm reallyexcited to get back to my
college students.
(26:38):
I miss them and being involvedin my studies and reading more
and writing more.
I also taught private pianolessons and voice lessons, so I
miss my little students.
I love being involved in mymusical communities and also
singing and playing the piano atchurch.
I've still been able to go tochurch throughout this year, but
(26:58):
just being more involved and Imiss having the rehearsals and
seeing that community and beingable to lead the choir in that
way.
So just returning to thosecommunities, that really poured
a lot into me.
Raeanna Johnson (27:10):
How are you going to be different showing up
in those communities now thanyou were a year ago?
Carlehr Swanson (27:15):
Yeah, I think I'm more confident in my
abilities.
To me, I've always felt worriedAm I doing it right?
Is this good?
Will they like it?
And I think, being a statetitle holder, I think after the
first three months you're likewell, it just is what it is and
it's not in a negative way,saying that you're not trying
(27:37):
your best, but it's just sayingthat I'm doing my best, I'm
showing up, I'm on time, I put alot of effort and energy into
this, I've practiced, I've donewhat I can.
Why wouldn't I feel confidentin showing up?
Raeanna Johnson (27:54):
So I think, just knowing that I fit the work
in to do the things, that I'veset out to do and just feeling
assured in that, all right, wekind of segued away from Miss
America stuff because I hadasked you about your Miss
America prep.
What was your mental prep likefor Miss?
Carlehr Swanson (28:10):
America versus what your mental prep had been
like for Miss Virginia.
I think it was different inways, because when I was
preparing for Miss Virginia, Iwas writing these qualifying
exams, so I had three essays dueand they were 20 pages each,
and so that was the week rightbefore Miss Virginia.
So I was like really in mybooks and I think I was really
(28:31):
kind of hyper-focused on MissVirginia and hyper-focused on
Miss America, but in a differentway, because I still had so
many other responsibilities.
And I think one thing that keptme mentally strong was, of
course, my faith and praying.
But knowing that Miss Americais the goal, and no matter how
(28:51):
difficult the other appearanceswere, we're making sure that I
spent that time every night, youknow, walking or answering my
interview questions or makingsure I'm staying up with the
news.
So, knowing that there's a lothappening, but making sure I
carve out this time every day tomake that a reality.
Raeanna Johnson (29:08):
What were some of the biggest lessons that you
learned competing at MissAmerica?
Carlehr Swanson (29:14):
I think overall I just feel like nothing's
wasted.
And the Bible tells us to writethe vision and make it plain,
and I wrote it.
I wrote it down that I wantedto go to Miss America in my high
school yearbook.
So there were many times thatweek I just felt like I'm here.
God did it Like this happened.
This was a dream that became areality and it just felt more
(29:37):
surreal because so many times Ithought it was over, I thought
it had ended.
So that was one thing.
And then just the sisterhoodseeing how Miss America doesn't
really feel like a competition.
It's like seeing friends iscoming together with ladies from
all across the state andthey're helping each other and
(29:58):
you're relying on your roommateduring the week and you're
starting to help each other withyour social media posts.
So just realizing I mean I'veseen the sisterhood on the state
level, but just seeing it at agreater magnitude was so special
.
Raeanna Johnson (30:10):
I have loved that about the state season this
year all of the collabs onTikToks and Instagram posts
between the delegates at eachstate competition, just like the
whole group coming together,like it's really like it's
pulling people in and reallyshowing that.
That like relevancy to theorganization, like that constant
(30:34):
question that we get asked oflike is Miss America still
relevant as part of your, yourpreparation for competition?
Right?
And like I think that in and ofitself is showing that it's
relevant, is just how realeverybody is and when you get
together, it truly is just likea bunch of friends hanging out.
Carlehr Swanson (30:51):
Yes, and I think that's something so
special about the state class isbecause we all kind of went
through that same process.
Maybe you know doing your statecompetition multiple times, or
just the mental game or themental prep that you take to get
to that moment, or just themental game or the mental prep
that you take to get to thatmoment.
And when you hear other statetitle holders they talk about
these things, the mental gameand the balancing and the
schedule.
So I think we kind of all bondthrough having that shared
(31:14):
experience.
Raeanna Johnson (31:17):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
How did you handle theemotional letdown after Miss
America was done?
Carlehr Swanson (31:30):
I think there's an initial sadness because you
won it and you prepped for it,but then you have that moment of
I'm still my state title holderand there's still work to be
done and there's still adifference that I can make.
There's still work to be doneand there's still a difference
that I can make.
And I think, competing so manytimes, I've truly realized that,
(31:51):
whoever will, you know, god hadfor them that year.
You know the people that theymeet, the things that they do,
that's what God had for them.
And whatever happens with youknow, my placement is what God
had for me and there's alwayssomething to learn from that
situation.
Raeanna Johnson (32:08):
But there was someone with sadness and I had
to go get my pizza.
And you know, yeah, well, Imean, that was.
That was very much myexperience and what I've heard
from a lot of others too.
There's like this very drasticmix of emotions, this dichotomy
of emotions that are soconflicting, of like, like the
like oh my gosh, I just did thatthing, and the gratitude and
(32:30):
the memories that you're likeprocessing from the whole
experience and the whirlwindthat it was.
And and then also this like, ohmy gosh, like it's over, like
it felt like it took so muchenergy and time to get here and
now it's done and like that's it.
And I still I'm over a decadeout and I still have Miss
(32:50):
America dreams, like I'll wakeup and be like, oh my gosh, like
I just had a dream that I waspreparing to compete at Miss
America.
And then again that realization.
Carlehr Swanson (32:57):
I'm like nope, that'll never happen again
because it is a once in alifetime thing and I think it
being once in a lifetime thingmakes it a little difficult at
times because you always thinkabout what could I have done
better, or what could I havechanged, or if I had one more
opportunity I would try it thisway.
But I think it's always justimportant to kind of just accept
(33:17):
that you know I did the bestthat I could do in that moment.
I did the best with what I hadand what I could do.
So that's also been a part ofit.
But I think one special thingthat made it better afterwards
we had catered Chipotlebackstage and so all of the
ladies we went and got ourlittle Chipotle bowls and then
(33:37):
someone put the pageant livestream on their phone.
So we were all backstagewatching the pageant, eating our
Chipotle bowls.
Raeanna Johnson (33:47):
Oh, I love that .
Yeah, like that's kind of abonding experience right, like
mine was.
Like mine was one of the yearsthat they had us sitting on
stage watching the competition,so we all kind of had that
unique experience of sittingthere and cheering on the girls
and also processing our emotionsof having not made it into
finals at the same time.
It was just like such a weirdexperience.
All right, so when you cameback from Miss America, how did
(34:11):
you pick back up and go fullspeed, full steam, rather into
like doing all the things thatyou wanted to do without having
to worry about prepping for MissAmerica anymore?
And now we're just being MissVirginia yes, about prepping for
Miss America anymore, and nowwe're just being Miss Virginia.
Carlehr Swanson (34:32):
Yes, it was great because it felt like a
little break from what I wasused to.
So when I went back to like myschool tour, I felt refreshed
and kind of rejuvenated and Ialso started to think about more
.
So because I had more of thetime to think about okay now
what do I want to do with mycommunity service initiative?
What are my future goals?
So I was able to collaboratewith some universities because I
want to be a professor.
I was able to plan some concertseries that I were able to do
(34:57):
and also partner with somenonprofits, sing for Hope and
Music and Memory.
So after Miss America I justkind of had the mental freeness
to focus on some of the goalsthat I had and also focus on
some recruitment goals that Ihad for the organization through
social media and going todifferent colleges.
So I was able to just have thatcapacity to accomplish those
(35:19):
goals.
Raeanna Johnson (35:20):
Talk a little bit more about your initiative
and some of your favoriteaccomplishments that you had
this year.
Carlehr Swanson (35:26):
So my community service initiative is called
Music is Unity.
I started it in the eighthgrade.
I went to visit my grandmotherin a rehabilitation center.
She had fractured her back andshe hated being in this place
because everyone knew my grandmaGladys everyone in school,
everyone in the neighborhood,everyone at church so she hated
being isolated this placebecause everyone knew my grandma
Gladys everyone in school,everyone in the neighborhood,
everyone at church so she hatedbeing isolated.
And so I would go and visitGrandma Gladys every day and I
(35:49):
would sing and I would playsongs on the piano.
And I realized that a lot ofthe other patients there would
come and they would watch theseperformances because they didn't
have visitors.
And so I went back to school.
I told all the kids in my musicclass that music isn't just
about being on a stage.
It can make people feelsomething.
It can make them feel lesslonely.
So since the eighth grade Istarted planning these concerts
(36:13):
in nursing homes and going intoschools and talking about the
importance of music, and sothat's kind of expanded into me
showing other young peoplethroughout my school tour how
they can take music and be avehicle to help connect people,
no matter their backgrounds, thedemographic and through Music
is Unity.
I've been able to not onlypartner with my school tour and
(36:35):
talk to kids about positive,healthy choices, but how music
is a healthy choice, but alsopartnerships with these
nonprofits.
So Sing for Hope.
They have an initiative wherethey place colorful pianos in
random places across America andthey place these piano in
places to encourage people tomake music and to come together,
no matter where they are.
You might see these in subwaystations or airports just to
(36:59):
make this music.
And they have a branch inschools in Newport News, which
is a city in Virginia.
So I've been able to go tothese schools and play their
pianos and have performances fortheir students and talk about
music as unity.
And I've also been able topartner with Music in Memory,
because another part of mygrandmother, gladys.
She had Alzheimer's and what Irealized is that she couldn't
(37:24):
remember simple things like whatshe had just ate, but she could
remember the songs that we, youknow, sang in church when I was
growing up, so I would singwith her and, you know, play
music that she liked.
And so with this partnershipwith Music is Memory, I've been
able to, you know, talk aboutthe scientific evidence that
music improves memory, thatmusic can be used for a myriad
(37:47):
of memory issues and also, youknow, do that research, show
that research and go intonursing homes and talk about how
their memory care units need toinclude music.
So those have been a few things.
Also, another exciting thing Ihad a concert at the VA hospital
here in Virginia, in Richmond,and so I say music is unity.
(38:07):
But this was the first time Isaw it.
You know they had me in thehospital, just in the middle,
close to their cafe area, andwhile I was singing and playing,
you know I saw nurses stop anddoctors stop and patients and
residents and so anyone that wasthere.
They just kind of stopped andsang along with me at this
concert that I had, and I havethis video where you just pan
(38:29):
the room and you see people juststop in their tracks and sing
along.
So that was a really excitingmoment.
Raeanna Johnson (38:35):
That's so cool.
It's those things that aregoing to stick with you forever
and when people ask you aboutyour experience as Miss Virginia
, those are going to be the corememories.
So CSI work is a significantpart of the work that you do as
a state title holder.
(38:55):
Obviously it's your passionproject and everyone that steps
into the role has a differentCSI.
But then there's a lot ofresponsibilities that are
consistent for every singletitle holder.
Can you talk about some ofthose responsibilities that you
took on that you will then handover to the next Miss Virginia
in a couple of weeks?
Carlehr Swanson (39:11):
Yes, the organization is a volunteer
organization and it worksbecause people give so much to
the organization and the girl,and a huge part of being Miss
Virginia are our wonderfulsponsors that support this
program.
So I have a sponsored apartmentand a sponsored car and I get
sponsored clothing.
(39:31):
So it's really important thatyou're able to go to these
sponsors to thank them for thesewonderful gifts that they're
giving you consistently.
Also, being able to recruit newsponsors, finding people that
can help the organization andalso social media management.
That's part of you know,thanking the sponsors different,
(39:52):
you know.
So we have a sponsors trackingsheet where I can see every
sponsor that we have and youknow how many social media posts
do they get, how many visits dothey get.
So, in addition to my schooltour, which is planned and
scheduled for me, I have acertain amount of sponsor visits
, a certain amount of sponsorposts.
(40:13):
So that's through havingcertain visits that you do in
high schools and colleges andthen through social media, being
able to find girls throughsocial media or just having
creative content that drawsthose young ladies in your
(40:34):
personal community serviceinitiative and yes, I think
that's it Sponsors, communityservice and then appearances and
connections that you're able tomake throughout the state.
This year I've had a uniqueopportunity to work with the
governor and the first lady andto perform at the mansion, so
also being able to garnerconnections and create
(40:56):
appearances for yourself,because there are a number of
people that know about MissVirginia and they request her,
and these are the same peoplethat request her every year.
But then it's also your job toyou know, raise awareness about
the organization and createthose opportunities for yourself
.
Raeanna Johnson (41:11):
What was the recruitment like specifically?
I know that's a big hot topicfor women that want to recruit
more to come into thisorganization and participate.
We all like, love it so muchand we gain so much from it.
We just really want to sharethe wealth and pay that forward.
So what was your approach torecruitment and what were some
of your successes this year?
Carlehr Swanson (41:33):
Social media, social media, and I think social
media is so important.
I know that's like the clicheanswer, but I think some young
ladies think it's like a secretclub.
They don't know exactly how toget involved.
So it's really important thatthey not only see you in a
picture with your crown and sash, but having you know the
(41:53):
website, specific details on howyou can participate, things
like that.
And I think another great parthas been education.
So I want to be a professor andI have connections with
universities, so being able tomake appearances where the young
girls are.
So I was able to guest lecturein a business class where I
talked about confidence andinflection and using your voice
(42:15):
and things like that.
But I was also able to talkabout the Miss Virginia
opportunity and they had someyoung ladies that were also
interested.
And then, through my communityservice initiative, I've been
able to partner withorganizations and while I'm
there to do music, to perform,I'm also able to talk about the
Miss Virginia opportunity.
So I think being able tocombine opportunities that may
(42:36):
be music focused or communityservice focused, but using them
to also talk about, here's thiswonderful opportunity that I use
to combine all of my interests.
Raeanna Johnson (42:46):
Yeah, that's a perfect point.
You are in so many differentspaces all the time.
I think it's one of the valuesof the Miss America opportunity
for every single woman to have aunique initiative and passion
project, like I mentioned,because you're reaching
different people every singleyear and you're doing a
disservice if you're not alsothinking how can I strategically
(43:07):
also benefit the organizationor recruit?
While I'm doing this work thatI love doing as well, Part of
your job is to think about andbe creative in different ways
that you can elevate the titleand elevate the organization
ways that you can elevate thetitle and elevate the
(43:27):
organization.
Carlehr Swanson (43:28):
Yes, and a win that I had this year with
recruiting, thinking about thatbusiness class that I was able
to go to that university.
They have a university titleholder and so they were able to
participate in Miss Virginia.
So there's a rule aboutfestivals and locals.
So one of the young ladies thatI met on that visit became her
school's title holder andthey're able to compete in the
(43:50):
Miss Virginia pageant.
So just leveraging what Ialready have this connection
with education and academia andbeing able to connect them to
scholarship opportunities.
Raeanna Johnson (44:00):
What would you say was the hardest part about
your?
Carlehr Swanson (44:04):
year.
Finding that time to take careof myself.
That was just really hard forme.
I like to give everything I doa hundred percent.
I don't like letting peopledown.
I want to do everything right.
That's always been my thing.
Raeanna Johnson (44:20):
I want to do everything right.
Carlehr Swanson (44:21):
I don't want to do anything wrong, and I think
losing my voice was the worstpart of the year, because, as a
singer, I've never lost my voice, I've never had any type of
vocal issue, and I think thatwas really a wake up call to say
you're a grown up, you need tospeak up for yourself and really
take care of yourself, and yourvoice is something that you've
(44:42):
worked so hard on practicing.
You literally majored in it soit was really important that I
was able to speak up about thatand take care of it Were there
moments that you felt lonely.
Yes, I think, yes, I mean, it'sa lonely job.
You know you have a lot ofpeople around you, you know when
(45:05):
you win or you go to certainevents, but then you get in your
car and you maybe you drivethree hours and you go back to
the apartment and you're, byyourself, impact in what I just
(45:25):
did.
I think sometimes when yourhighs are really high, like
being a state title holder andmeeting lots of people and
taking lots of pictures yourlows feel really low.
So I try to remind myself ofthat in the moment that I just
did this amazing thing.
I just met the governor, I justspoke to a hundred kids.
So in those moments when I'mfeeling that, I'm trying to
remind myself, you know what isthe purpose, what is the impact,
and I'm feeling this waybecause I have this enormous
(45:47):
blessing.
Raeanna Johnson (45:49):
Is there anything you would have done
differently this year?
Carlehr Swanson (45:53):
I think I would have came in with the mindset
of taking care of myself.
Raeanna Johnson (45:58):
Okay, this is a theme.
Carlehr Swanson (46:01):
The voice thing really got me when that
happened, I think, taking careof myself, speaking up for
myself, I think, not worryingabout upsetting people.
I think when you're a peoplepleaser, by nature you try to
not upset people and I think ithurt me in the long run.
And that's saying there wassomething drastic that happened,
(46:22):
but just little things likevoicing and needing time off to
recuperate from being sick,things like that.
So just being an advocate formyself, knowing that I'm a
respectful person, so thateverything comes from love, and
making yourself a priority atthe beginning.
Raeanna Johnson (46:39):
Yeah, I think that's that's an interesting
point too, and I want to hearmore of your perspective on that
, because it's like you, you'retalking about being a people
pleaser and so, like you've likedon't create waves, like you
know, do all the things that youcan to.
You know, be appreciative andand do your job as best as you
can.
And so I think maybe there waslike we build this up in our
(47:02):
head, like it's going to be likesome really bad thing if we do
stand up for ourselves.
But what was the actualexperience when you did finally
start saying I just can't rightnow?
Carlehr Swanson (47:14):
We understand.
I'm glad you said something, orone great thing I learned along
the way is always challengepeople.
Like sometimes someone will saysomething to you and you will
just sit with it, you'll take it.
Oh, that was kind of offensiveor I didn't like the way that
felt.
I feel attacked a little bit.
But I think it's alwaysimportant to ask a follow-up
(47:35):
question, like what did you meanby that?
And what I've learned is thatsometimes it's not even what you
think, or you might thinksomeone's like critiquing I
don't know the way you saidsomething or what you wore and
really they were just saying myfavorite color is red.
I like when you wear red.
You know not that I dislike youin the blue.
So I think it's important toalways just ask a clarifying
(47:57):
question.
Raeanna Johnson (48:04):
That is advice that I wish I would have had
when I was competing, when I wasa tad older.
Because, yeah, like when you'realready like tired or sensitive
to things, like some of thoselittle comments that literally
don't mean anything, we can takeand like perceive as something
really horrible and it kind ofruin our experience.
Carlehr Swanson (48:19):
I think that was a big thing like preparing
for Miss America, and you havemock interviews and someone says
I would have liked to hear thisand you say well, I said this.
And then you ask a follow-upquestion.
He said oh, I just meant youshould have added some more
statistics in there.
So you start on the spiral.
This is awful, I can't do this,and they just literally bent at
more statistics.
Raeanna Johnson (48:41):
I love that.
I'm going to just take thatwith me.
Clarifying questions very, veryimportant what does life after
the crown look like for you?
Carlehr Swanson (48:51):
So I'm going into the fifth year of my PhD in
something called Critical andComparative Studies in Music and
I have one year left and I'llbe finishing my dissertation
talking about music andcommunity engagement.
So basically what I livedthrough this year and I'll be
applying for a professor job.
So I'll still be impactingstudents and I'm excited to use
(49:13):
the connections withuniversities and the people that
I met along the way to kind ofhelp facilitate that process.
Raeanna Johnson (49:20):
Has the grieving process started for you
yet?
Carlehr Swanson (49:23):
Oh gosh.
Yes, yeah, I'm trying to avoidit, I'm trying to think happy
thoughts and it really hit meback in May because I had my
last school visit and likethat's been the highlight of my
year meeting the kids andtalking to them and I had the
last visit and I had to remindmyself, well, you still have
(49:45):
some more weeks of being MissVirginia.
And then I find myself likestrolling through my phone
looking at memories and thingslike that.
But I just try to.
It's hard, you know, I wantedthis so bad and I was blessed
with it.
It and I had a great time and Imet wonderful people.
It made a huge impact.
But I have to remember that ifI'm going into a new beginning,
(50:07):
this next chapter, this one, hasto end.
Whoever gets it next.
You know that's the blessingthat God has for them.
So that keeps me positive.
But it's hard and my mom looksat me and she's like it's okay,
don't be sad, you know.
Raeanna Johnson (50:22):
And then she'll say, well, I'm a little sad too
, but it really is a grievingprocess, just like so many
things, and so let yourself feelall the feels and live in the
end in the joy and the gratitudeof it, but also the sadness of
things changing, because changeis hard.
Carlehr Swanson (50:39):
I'm trying to like pack the schedule forever.
Miss Virginia's are telling melike you need to have a trip
plan, have some things to do,because there's going to be a
big emptiness in your scheduleand you don't want to just go
back home and say, okay, nowwhat do I do?
So I'm going to go teach atheater camp.
That'll keep me occupied.
Raeanna Johnson (50:58):
Oh, beautiful, and that'll be, you know, in a
great like space for you to bein front of students and, yeah,
that'll be fulfilling.
What is your hope for?
Okay, let me ask it this wayyou have worked really hard to
create an impact this year and,to some extent, like you have so
much ownership of that and likeit becomes kind of like your
(51:19):
baby right throughout the year,and so what is your hope?
That the next Miss Virginiawill continue carrying out like
what you have started, or thatyou carried on from the, from
the last woman in this role?
Carlehr Swanson (51:34):
Charting your own path.
I think that's something that Iwas able to do this year just
bringing music to the schooltour, connections with
universities but that happenedbecause of who I am and the
connections that I already haveand the things I was already
doing.
So I think it's important forthe next person to assess their
(51:54):
abilities and the things thatthey're already doing and
they're already passionate about, and to chart their own year.
I think that's something that,year to year, we see state title
holders do.
They're able to use theirabilities and bring what they
have to the role, and I thinkthat's what I hope for the next
person.
I think you know it's either.
Or Sometimes someone chartstheir own territory and they
(52:17):
make their own path using theirunique gifts and talents, or
sometimes they see what theperson before them did and they
think they have to be a carboncopy of that, or that's the only
thing that works.
So I hope they just use theirgifts and talents to make a
difference.
Raeanna Johnson (52:33):
I think that can be an insecurity and a
limiting belief for a lot ofwomen that are in this journey
towards winning a local orwinning state, or they're on
their way to a nationalcompetition, of knowing they
want to stand out, hearing thatmessage of bring your unique
talents, bring your uniqueinsights and passion and skills
(52:54):
to the table.
But I think one of the limitingbeliefs can often be I don't
know what mine are and I don'tknow that mine are strong enough
.
And how do I really figure thatout?
What would you say to them?
Carlehr Swanson (53:07):
I think that's difficult.
I think when I first startedpageants, I think what made it
hard and made me feel notconfident is that I was worried
about finding those gifts andtalents.
Like I have this low voice andpeople would say speak higher.
And I would try to speak higherand I would try to be more
bubbly, or I would try to singsongs that I thought people
(53:28):
would like, or I would try tosay answers that I thought
people would like, and it wasn'tuntil I sat with myself and
said, okay, what do I think,what songs do I like, what songs
resonate with me, that I wasable to have the most success.
And I think it's important forpeople to be able to tell the
difference between opinion andadvice or things that they need
(53:48):
to improve, because some adviceis really helpful it's like you
should walk slower, that'shelpful advice.
But some opinions, like youshould sing these types of songs
, you know that's not reallyhelpful.
So I think being able to firstsit with yourself and assess
what are your gifts and yourtalents and sometimes we think
it's hard to do because weassociate gifts and talents with
(54:11):
, like, a job or a major inschool but they're the thing
that comes naturally to us.
So being able to assess andfind what that is, or asking
those around you what do youthink when I come around, what
does that make you feel like?
Being able to assess and thenalso being able to tell the
difference between that commentthat someone made to me is that
(54:33):
helpful?
Can I use it and get better?
Can I actually take it andimprove myself?
And then using that if it'shelpful and it's useful.
Raeanna Johnson (54:47):
Right.
So, as we wrap up, I want forsure, I want you to have the
last word, because you have justso much insight and love
pouring out of you.
So what is on your mind thatyou want to make sure that
everyone takes away from this?
And maybe a beautiful way tobookend our conversation from
the beginning, when I sharedyour overall message and how you
have approached your year, butfrom your own words.
Carlehr Swanson (55:13):
God is faithful .
He fulfilled his promise to me.
This was something I set out todo over 10 years ago and, no
matter what it looked like, heprepared this perfect time for
me, and, in gratitude of himpreparing this perfect time for
me, I tried my best.
I tried my best, and I alwaysshowed up and pray that God's
(55:35):
light will shine through, and hefulfilled that promise as well,
and so I'm just so grateful tohave had this moment and this
opportunity and to also justwalk into the next season taking
away all of the things that Ilearned from this year.
Raeanna Johnson (55:52):
Thank you.
What a beautiful way to wrap upthis series with you, carlia.
You are truly just theembodiment of everything that
you had just said and Iappreciate you so much for that,
and I really hope that everyonelistening really feels that
love and encouragement from youas they listen to this
(56:12):
conversation too.
As they listen to thisconversation too because I mean
everyone that I have talked toevery title holder in the crown
and candid series has come withtheir unique perspective, their
unique journey to getting towhere they are, their unique
experiences of holding thistitle and have grown in in
(56:33):
various ways.
And so it's it's been sofascinating, from where I sit,
to see all of that, um, you know, in conversations unfolding in
front of me and, um, I, just I,really I have so much gratitude
for the privilege that I have tosit here and have these
conversations with you and, like, have a candid conversation
(56:54):
with you about your uniqueexperience and to hear you, um
be really open and full of loveand full of heart and authentic
in what you're saying.
So thank you so much for beinga part of this series and for
helping me wrap it up in such alovely way, and I'm just so
thrilled for you to wrap up youryear and look back with nothing
(57:14):
but love for your experienceand move forward with nothing
but excitement and joy for whatcomes next.
Carlehr Swanson (57:23):
Thank you so much and thank you for having me
, but also thank you forcreating the space for other
title holders to listen in andto learn and to see the behind
the scenes and learn about whatthis job is really about, and
also just shining a light on allof us state title holder
stories.
Thank you.
Raeanna Johnson (57:40):
Yeah, you're welcome.
It really has been a privilegeand a joy.
So thanks again for being partof it and to you all, my
beautiful Sash and Soulcommunity, thanks for sticking
with me, for being a part ofthis journey as well, and I will
be back next week with, I'vebeen saying, the regularly
scheduled programming with a lotof insight about kind of
(58:01):
wrapping up state competitionseason, wrapping up the season
of the Fearlessly AuthenticMastermind and the things that
I've really learned throughoutthe season working with clients
from across the country andhaving these conversations on
Sash and Soul as well.
So I will see you then.
In the meantime, take care ofyourselves and be well.
(58:22):
We'll see you then, bye.
Hello everyone, welcome back to Sash and Soul.
I'm really excited and it's alittle bittersweet to bring you
the last episode of the Crownand Candid series this season,
but it is with a reallyexcellent person to share that
with.
I have with me today MissVirginia 2024.
(00:22):
This is Carlehr Swanson and heroverall message I can already
tell is going to be like woventhroughout.
This episode is the perfect wayto wrap up this series and pour
love and light into all of youas you go into whatever your
next venture is.
So I asked Carlehr what heroverall like legacy is and her
(00:43):
message, and she said just thateveryone she encounters sees
God's light.
She said move me out of the way.
This is about the people that Iencounter along the way on this
journey and I have chillsthinking about that because
that's such a beautiful visualto think about.
I'm just the vessel.
I'm just here doing amazingthings and hoping that people
(01:04):
feel special and loved along theway.
So with that, welcome Carlehr.
Thank you so much for joiningme, oh thank you so much for
having me.
Carlehr Swanson (01:12):
I'm excited.
Raeanna Johnson (01:13):
Yeah, it's going to be a good chat.
Tell us about yourself.
Carlehr Swanson (01:16):
Well, I am from Richmond, Virginia, the capital
of Virginia.
Born and raised and growing up.
Music and faith and educationhave all been a big part of my
life.
I started singing when I wassix years old and then I started
classical piano lessons when Iwas seven years old and I did
that from seven to 18, went offto college and I majored in
(01:38):
music.
And somewhere along the way Iwas performing at a funeral and
there was a pageant director inthe audience and she said wow,
you have a great talent, wouldyou like to do this pageant?
And I really didn't think muchabout it.
I said, oh, this would be great.
I get to perform my talent on abig stage, a lot of people will
(01:59):
see it.
I didn't think about like, oh,you're kind of shy and you don't
like speaking in front ofpeople or walking in front of
people.
But I said yes and I was secondrunner up in that pageant and
that was almost 10 years ago.
And it's been a dream come true, because in my high school
yearbook I wrote it that Iwanted to go to Miss America and
(02:21):
have this opportunity.
And it's really been just amanifestation of all of those
things coming together my faith,my education, music, so perfect
timing.
Raeanna Johnson (02:31):
Absolutely.
I'm all about the perfecttiming.
Everything lines up exactly howit's supposed to, and it's
amazing when you can look backon your journey and just see
where you've been placed incertain experiences or people
have been placed or situationshave been placed right in your
path in the perfect way for youto learn and grow or to access
some kind of a resource, and itsounds like maybe you've had a
(02:54):
similar experience with that.
Carlehr Swanson (02:57):
I have.
So, thinking about just myfirst involvement in pageants,
and then thinking about thelocal directors that I've
encountered along the way, andjust thinking about this time as
being Miss Virginia, I'm 28.
So this was the last time thatI could compete.
I've aged out three timesbefore this chance, so it was
(03:17):
just, you know, meant to be inthat way.
But also I'm a PhD student andI'm in the fourth year, so that
means I finished all of mycoursework, my qualifying exams,
so it was just the perfect timeto kind of take a detour and be
Miss Virginia for the year.
Raeanna Johnson (03:32):
How many times did you compete on the Miss
Virginia stage?
Carlehr Swanson (03:36):
I competed six times spanned out over the
course of 10 years.
Raeanna Johnson (03:42):
What was that like for you to come back over
and over and over again?
Carlehr Swanson (03:47):
It was difficult.
I think sometimes it's justhard to be in a field where
you're constantly being judged.
It's really easy to compareyourself to other girls and
throughout that journey Ithought like, maybe if I talked
more, maybe if I was more bubblyor if I looked like this or if
I did this or I dressed likethat.
So every year you're kind offinding ways to tweak things or
(04:10):
do things better, and I thinkwhat I realized that last year
was, yes, there's always thingsthat we can improve on.
But once I finally accepted,like, this is who I am, this is
what I can bring to thisposition, this is why I'm
special, this is what I canbring to this position, this is
why I'm special.
That acceptance, I think, ledme to winning and just having
this year, because I realizedthat the people that I'll
(04:32):
encounter this year, you know,need the things that I have.
They need, you know, the littlesilly quirks that I have, the
way I communicate with people,the way you know I interact with
them.
Raeanna Johnson (04:46):
So it was finally an acceptance of I am
enough to do this.
Yeah, I, I love like hearingabout everyone's experiences and
how they're different one yearafter the next at state, and
like what valuable lessons thatthey learned.
And I look back at myexperience too.
I competed for Miss Wisconsinfour times and every year was
just vastly different from theyear before, Did you?
Carlehr Swanson (05:05):
experience.
That too I did.
So I started Miss in eight.
So I did some years of teen andthen went right into Miss at 18
.
And that first year I went Iwas just like this is fun, I'm
just here to meet people and tohave the experience.
And then the second year I wentI was third runner up and I
didn't expect it and it was kindof a whirlwind.
(05:28):
But I think because thathappened unexpectedly.
The next year I was kind ofhyper-focused on okay, I was
third runner up.
That means I can win this if Ijust prepare properly.
And so I kind of psyched myselfout of it, kind of
over-preparing, over-analyzing,trying to turn into something
that I thought would be winning.
So that happened.
(05:49):
And then I did it again and Iwas third runner up and then I
was fourth runner up.
So it was kind of difficultbecause I said this is getting
worse and I'm putting all of myenergy into this, my community
service, my public speaking, allof these things.
And then I thought, okay, I'mdone.
I was third runner up twice Iwas fourth runner up.
(06:10):
I don't want to see how worsethis can get.
And I think I made all of theseexcuses of why I can't do it
again.
I can't do it again because ofschool, I can't do it again
because there's only one localpageant.
I can't do it again.
And all of those worries justkind of figured themselves out
and I ended up doing it again.
But again, it was just that,finally having that acceptance
of I'm enough to do this and arealization that I'm blessed
(06:34):
either way, like I don't needthe title to define me, like I'm
doing meaningful work.
I see the impact I'm having onmy community, the impact I'm
having in my PhD program.
So in that final moment of meand the first runner up, I was
truly thinking I'm blessedeither way.
Either way I'm going to beblessed and I have a blessing to
(06:54):
walk into.
Raeanna Johnson (06:56):
I think the journey can be so interesting
Sometimes.
I was thinking about this theother day that, like we, we do
pageants to grow and to become,you know, bigger, better
versions of ourselves, and tolike, improve and and to do
great things for the communityand for the people around us in
service, and to to build ourcareer and all of these really
(07:18):
amazing things.
And yet sometimes I think it'sreally common to lose ourselves
in it and it's when we findourselves again again that
everything just kind of worksout.
Carlehr Swanson (07:30):
Does that make sense?
It makes perfect sense.
I think that's definitely whathappened, I think, when I was 18
, I was just kind of carefreeand I just wanted to enjoy it
and soak in the process.
I had fun, I enjoyed it, Ilearned a lot, I grew and then,
soon as I started to hyper-focuson, okay, now what is everyone
else doing?
(07:50):
You know, what are all of thesedirectors saying?
What should people be doing?
Who did they pick last year?
Maybe if I did more like this, Iwill have a better chance and
that kind of just kind ofspiraled over the years,
especially being in the top fiveso many times and being so
close, yeah, but I think it wasfinally once I had that moment
of finding myself again.
(08:11):
What is my purpose?
I think the purpose really ledme back to just being who I am,
because that was one of thethings that I started Initially.
I got involved for performingand music, but that 18-year-old
passion was being around thegirls and the networking and
seeing everyone making adifference in their community
and knowing that I could make adifference.
(08:31):
So just kind of reuniting withthat purpose really helped me
just calm myself and showing upas my authentic self.
Raeanna Johnson (08:40):
What was going through your mind when you were
standing there as one of the toptwo?
What was going through yourmind when you were standing?
Carlehr Swanson (08:46):
there as one of the top two.
Strangely, I was very calm,which has never happened before.
Normally I can feel my breathinside my body and my chest
going up and down, but I wasjust very calm, Very calm, and
then just kind of realizing,okay, well, at least I did
better than the other time, soI'm not going out worse than it
(09:13):
started, but then just havingacceptance that I had did my
best, that I tried all I coulddo.
It was my last chance, so Ileft it all out there on the
stage, but again, just knowingthat I'm blessed either way,
that's what I kind of keptrepeating to myself when we're
waiting and they're listing allof those long things that they
list out, I was thinking I'mblessed either way.
Raeanna Johnson (09:30):
Yeah, and then your name was called as the
winner.
When did it hit you that it wasreal?
Carlehr Swanson (09:38):
I kind of had an out-of-body experience for a
moment, but I just immediatelystarted crying and I just
thought about that 10-yearjourney of thinking I wasn't
good enough or thinking Icouldn't do this, or spending
time trying to be someone else.
I felt that in that moment allof that hard work had paid off
and I realized that, you know,that process wasn't wasted.
(10:01):
You know it was just preparingme for that moment.
And then so I really love theMiss Virginia song.
We have a Miss Virginia songand all of those other years.
I would sit there and I wouldjust kind of sing the song and I
remember that I had a momentwhere I kind of came back and
I'm realizing everything that'shappening.
And then I just heard the MissVA and then I cried more.
Raeanna Johnson (10:25):
Was it anything like what you had dreamt it
would be.
Carlehr Swanson (10:28):
No, I mean I had seen the vision, I knew that
it could happen, there was apossibility.
But I didn't imagine howemotional I would be.
I didn't imagine how painful itwas initially not having that
moment.
I felt those were also a partof the tears, just having that
(10:49):
emotion from the years of liketrying and not accomplishing it.
I didn't imagine that I wouldjust have that overwhelming
sense of emotion.
It was uncontrollable.
Raeanna Johnson (10:59):
You had spent almost a decade at that point
going after this goal.
How similar and or differentwas the job from what you had
thought it was going to be.
Carlehr Swanson (11:12):
I think it was similar in that I knew what to
expect.
In ways I knew about our schooltour, so I knew I would be busy
every day of the week in thatway.
I knew about sponsor visits.
I knew about social mediaresponsibility.
I knew all of those things.
I think kind of what you said.
In the beginning I didn'trealize that.
(11:34):
I felt like I grew a lotthrough that 10-year process and
then, once you become a statetitle holder, there's kind of
more to that process, otherthings to grow.
So I think, um, I really foundmy voice throughout this year,
being more confident in myabilities and who I am and what
I bring to the table.
Um, and, I think, balancing.
(11:56):
I think I'm the type of personwho likes to just give their
full energy to something andthat's a great benefit, but also
realizing that you need time totake care of yourself and
blocking out time on yourschedule to have those moments.
So I think I realize it will bea busy, a full-time job, but
also realizing the ways that Istill need to grow.
Raeanna Johnson (12:18):
We do so much work to get ourselves mentally
prepared for the job and putourselves in the shoes of the
title holder and what is ourgame plan?
And visualize it, because weknow like that's, that's the big
picture, that's the focus, likewe're here for the job when
we're, you know, there forcompetition week.
But then you know, like you'resaying you get into it and I
(12:39):
think oftentimes, like we don'texpect that.
You know we're riding this highof, like I'm ready, I'm so
prepared, I can see myself doingthis.
And then you actually get thejob and you're like wait, what,
like, what am I doing?
Did you have moments of that?
Like I kind of want to call itimposter syndrome esque
experience.
Carlehr Swanson (12:59):
Yes, yeah, yes, and I think one great thing
that was really helpful I had aForever Miss Virginia, come what
she told me and I realized that, okay, I'm not alone in this.
(13:28):
Everyone must have had thatsame feeling if she thought it
was important to tell me that,and I think, just not feeling
good enough, not feeling worthy,starting to compare yourselves
social media, online forums, canbe very discouraging, so
shutting out the outside noiseand just focusing on how I can
(13:50):
do the best job because there isa little imposter syndrome that
happens.
But I realized the growthreally came from thinking okay,
if someone's saying this aboutme, why do I believe this is
true?
You know, it's not really theirproblem, it's my problem to
figure out.
You know what part of this do Ibelieve?
And so that was something thatwas really helpful this year
(14:13):
realizing, okay, it's not reallyabout what they think, it's
about what I think about myselfand how can I use this to figure
out why is this bothering meand how can I grow from that.
Raeanna Johnson (14:23):
That's a lot of internal work, Like that's hard
work.
Did you feel like you were?
I mean, how can I do with that?
And if it's not true, okay,then what do I do with like this
(14:53):
hurt that someone else may be?
Carlehr Swanson (14:54):
feeling this way about me, right, yeah, that
was really helpful advice toreceive.
Like, if people think, like ifyou feel like you're not good
enough and then someone says youknow you're not good enough or
you know just mean things thatpeople can say, why do you feel
like you're not good enough?
And then someone says you knowyou're not good enough or you
know just mean things thatpeople can say, why do you feel
that it's true?
Or why is this bothering you?
And I think that's where thegrowth came from, because I
think I've always been kind of atimid person or a shy person or
(15:17):
someone who's worried about amI doing a good job?
Do they think I'm doing a goodjob?
And this year was the firsttime I felt like I am doing a
good job.
I see the impact I'm having.
It's not really about whatother people think.
It's about you know what thenumbers say, what the impact
says, the lives that I'mtouching every day.
Raeanna Johnson (15:36):
Yeah.
Okay, I have not asked anyoneabout this yet, but what was the
most helpful thing that you hadreceived within your circle of
support throughout this journey?
Carlehr Swanson (15:48):
Definitely my Forever Miss Virginia sisters
telling me about their years,the things that they had
experienced, especially the onethat told me about you know,
later tonight you're going tofeel like what's happening,
what's going on?
Maybe I don't deserve this, butalso thinking about what about
this?
You know what people say oradvise.
(16:09):
Why is this resonating with you?
Why is this bothering you?
Always to challenge yourself,why is this bothering me?
And to also not being afraid tospeak out.
I think sometimes, as statetitle holders, you're a little
afraid.
You know you want, you're thebrand you want to be perfect as
you can be or as you can appearto be.
(16:30):
But I think, speaking youropinion, saying the things that
you like, or speaking up forother contestants, things like
that I think it's important tobe able to still have a voice,
even though you're the voice ofan organization.
Raeanna Johnson (16:45):
Still, have a voice, even though you're the
voice of an organization.
Yeah, I was just having aconversation with a client today
about honesty In interview, Ithink you know, as we're talking
about preparing for competitionand stuff, she's struggling
with not wanting to bemisunderstood about certain
aspects of her and I was like,all right, well, one of the key
(17:10):
things of being authentic ishonesty, and to be able to do
that, you also have to trustthat you're going to show up and
speak your truth in a way thatis respectful and that you can
trust that you will show upprofessionally and articulately
in that and I mean that's partof the work and part of the
skill building and stuff right,but that honesty, that honesty
with yourself and honesty withthe people around you, I think
is what makes you a raw and realperson as a title holder, not
(17:35):
putting on some kind of a face.
Carlehr Swanson (17:36):
Yeah, I think that's so important.
I think for me I don't likeconflict.
I'm very avoidant of conflictor just hurting people's
feelings or just saying thingsthat people might not like.
But I realize, as a titleholder, no matter how concerned
you are about people's feelingsor conflict, it still arises.
So it's better, like you said,to be honest, to confront these
(17:58):
things head on, and I think, assomeone who values their self as
an authentic person, it's againbeing able to be honest and to
be authentic even when it's asan authentic person.
It's again being able to behonest and to be authentic even
when it's not a happy situationor it's a conflict driven
situation.
Raeanna Johnson (18:13):
How did this idea of like move me out of the
way?
You know, this is about God'spurpose assist you in times of
conflict.
Carlehr Swanson (18:25):
Oh, yes, when I realized it wasn't about me.
You know, it was about thepeople that I meet.
You know the person that'sgoing to be Miss Virginia next,
doing his work in his kingdom,and I think it's something that
really started from being aperformer, because I think in
music you know someone's on astage and it's glitz and it's
(18:48):
glam and you're there toentertain people.
But I think it's important torealize that these gifts and
these talents that we use toentertain people, they aren't
for us and we don't drive them.
They're.
You know, like you said in thebeginning, we're being vessels.
So I think you know, knowing howimportant it is, especially
with the school tour that I'vegone on, that when I arrive at
(19:12):
these schools, yes, I missVirginia, but also you know what
am I saying to these kids?
I have an amazing opportunityto impact young people, to
change their lives.
It only takes one person to sayone thing that changes
someone's lives, and I have thisunique opportunity for a year
(19:32):
to meet thousands and thousandsof children.
So when I show up, I didn'twant to show.
Okay, I had to drive five hoursto get here and tomorrow I'm
driving five more hours and theschedule is very difficult.
I want it to be the best Icould be and just let that light
shine.
Raeanna Johnson (19:46):
I had an interesting question from a
client as well this week that Ilove to hear your perspective on
.
She asked what was one toolthat you used when you showed up
at appearances to leave a markor to be memorable.
Carlehr Swanson (20:03):
I love that.
I loved the school tour and thething about the school tour.
Sometimes I would have hundredsand hundreds of kids and so I
would ask them you know, doesanyone have questions?
And I couldn't get to all ofthem.
So once I realized you know thekids are sad when you can't get
to all of them, I startedstanding by the door at the end
of all of my school visits.
(20:24):
So as each child left, they gota chance to talk to me or just
tell me what resonated with them, or give me a hug or something
that they had drew, and Irealized that really made a
difference in the appearances,because some kids are a little
shy, like I was in school, somekids don't have a question, and
it gave everyone a moment to beseen and to have their voice
(20:46):
heard.
Raeanna Johnson (20:47):
That is beautiful.
It's like a receiving line andin so many ways, like what you
would do at the end of a churchservice or at a wedding where,
like you, just really take thatmoment to make sure that every
person is seen.
Carlehr Swanson (21:02):
That that's beautiful and I think, yes, it
was impactful for them.
They got to talk to MissVirginia, but I think it was
just so moving to me because alot of my community service
initiative I talk about mygrandmother, gladys.
So there were so many kids thatwould come up to me and say my
grandma's name is Gladys or Iplay a musical instrument or I
(21:25):
would ask what do you want to dowhen you grew up?
And they would ask really deepkind of provoking questions like
what if I don't know what Iwant to do?
Or so it was really moving tome to see like what I said
resonated with them, but alsothat it's a purpose in every
story that we share.
Raeanna Johnson (21:41):
And I think you had said this or alluded to
this earlier too like you'llnever really know the impact
that you leave.
But what a great way to havethat gentle reminder that just
showing up and being real andbeing open and being honest with
the people that you meet likecan really create these like
micro connections where theyjust find something in you that
(22:04):
they relate to, microconnections, where they just
find something in you that theyrelate to and that can be really
inspiring for people and it canbe really connective for people
when they maybe feel a littlebit more alone.
Carlehr Swanson (22:15):
Yes, and I think sometimes when you're a
state title holder, people arereally excited to meet you.
They're really excited, theyhave a lot of questions, they
want to know everything aboutyou.
But I've always made it a focusof mine whenever I have a
conversation with someone, Ilike to ask them more questions
than they ask me, and that I dothat because I want to know
(22:38):
their story.
I want them to know that, yes,you're interested in me because
I'm this figure, but I'minterested in you because you're
a human and I see your heartand I want to know more about
you.
So I always make it a focus Iwant to know about you, I want
to know your story.
Raeanna Johnson (22:53):
Earlier you talked about maintaining your
balance, because you always wantto do more and put yourself out
there more, and I think that isso common for women in
pageantry so common for women inpageantry.
And what did you do in timeswhen you felt a little burnt out
(23:14):
to recoup that energy?
And then what tools did youstart to use to maintain your
energy and your balance?
Yes, Okay.
Carlehr Swanson (23:21):
So praying was a big thing that helped me be
realigned during those times.
Going to the gym, just doingsomething to focus on me, making
the healthy choice.
Cooking is really difficult tocook when you're constantly on
the road.
So making those times to havehome cooked meals, staying
(23:42):
connected to my communitywhether that's talking to a best
friend in the car while you'reon a long drive or just making
time to have those familydinners and I think so that was
what I used in the beginning.
But what I started to do toavoid that burnout, just saying
no.
And I think, as a title holder,you don't want to say no.
(24:03):
You've waited all of this timeto have this moment.
You don't want to upset people,you don't want to let people
down in some cases, but it gotto a point where I was sick and
I was losing my voice, andthat's something very difficult
as a singer to experience.
So I realized, okay, yes, youcan go, go, go, but it's not
(24:25):
great for your health and youcan't pour from an empty tank.
So realizing that sometimes youhave to say no and it's okay to
take time off, it's okay toblock out the schedule and say,
okay, there's nothing going onthis day, maybe I'll go get a
massage, maybe I'll get a facial.
So really starting to be moreconcerned with the time and
(24:45):
knowing that it's not selfish tohave self-care time?
Raeanna Johnson (24:48):
How did your preparation for Miss America
look?
Carlehr Swanson (24:51):
It was a whirlwind, it was very exciting,
but also I had a school tour.
I've went to 70 schools overthe course of this year, so I
had that every day.
I had mock interviews everySunday virtually, and I had
walking on Wednesdays along withalterations to my clothing.
(25:11):
So it was very difficult in away, because the appearances
didn't stop, the sponsor visitsdidn't stop, but I think it
really taught me management andthat if you want to do something
, you can do it.
Because I was in the car havinginterview prep or listening to
the news, I really learned howto manage my time in a useful
(25:35):
and effective way.
Yeah, it was a whirlwind and Ithink the funniest part about
this process is that I had adress that was made and on
Christmas Day I was picking itup.
On Christmas Eve I was gettingthe final touches.
So it's when you want to be astate title holder is just, you
(25:56):
see the glitz and the glam, butit's really, you know, being
somewhere on Christmas daygetting your last fitting,
trying to fit everything in, tobe the best that you can be, no
matter, you know what time it is, what the schedule looks like,
yeah, it's really interestingthat you brought up like the
holidays and giving up time onyour holidays with family and
and your traditions, Cause I wasjust going to ask you what did
(26:18):
you sacrifice throughout youryear that you're excited to to
get back in your life after thenext couple of weeks are up?
Ooh, um, being very, being veryinvolved in school.
So at school I'm a PhD student,but all of our PhD students we
teach a course, so I'm reallyexcited to get back to my
college students.
(26:38):
I miss them and being involvedin my studies and reading more
and writing more.
I also taught private pianolessons and voice lessons, so I
miss my little students.
I love being involved in mymusical communities and also
singing and playing the piano atchurch.
I've still been able to go tochurch throughout this year, but
(26:58):
just being more involved and Imiss having the rehearsals and
seeing that community and beingable to lead the choir in that
way.
So just returning to thosecommunities, that really poured
a lot into me.
Raeanna Johnson (27:10):
How are you going to be different showing up
in those communities now thanyou were a year ago?
Carlehr Swanson (27:15):
Yeah, I think I'm more confident in my
abilities.
To me, I've always felt worriedAm I doing it right?
Is this good?
Will they like it?
And I think, being a statetitle holder, I think after the
first three months you're likewell, it just is what it is and
it's not in a negative way,saying that you're not trying
(27:37):
your best, but it's just sayingthat I'm doing my best, I'm
showing up, I'm on time, I put alot of effort and energy into
this, I've practiced, I've donewhat I can.
Why wouldn't I feel confidentin showing up?
Raeanna Johnson (27:54):
So I think, just knowing that I fit the work
in to do the things, that I'veset out to do and just feeling
assured in that, all right, wekind of segued away from Miss
America stuff because I hadasked you about your Miss
America prep.
What was your mental prep likefor Miss?
Carlehr Swanson (28:10):
America versus what your mental prep had been
like for Miss Virginia.
I think it was different inways, because when I was
preparing for Miss Virginia, Iwas writing these qualifying
exams, so I had three essays dueand they were 20 pages each,
and so that was the week rightbefore Miss Virginia.
So I was like really in mybooks and I think I was really
(28:31):
kind of hyper-focused on MissVirginia and hyper-focused on
Miss America, but in a differentway, because I still had so
many other responsibilities.
And I think one thing that keptme mentally strong was, of
course, my faith and praying.
But knowing that Miss Americais the goal, and no matter how
(28:51):
difficult the other appearanceswere, we're making sure that I
spent that time every night, youknow, walking or answering my
interview questions or makingsure I'm staying up with the
news.
So, knowing that there's a lothappening, but making sure I
carve out this time every day tomake that a reality.
Raeanna Johnson (29:08):
What were some of the biggest lessons that you
learned competing at MissAmerica?
Carlehr Swanson (29:14):
I think overall I just feel like nothing's
wasted.
And the Bible tells us to writethe vision and make it plain,
and I wrote it.
I wrote it down that I wantedto go to Miss America in my high
school yearbook.
So there were many times thatweek I just felt like I'm here.
God did it Like this happened.
This was a dream that became areality and it just felt more
(29:37):
surreal because so many times Ithought it was over, I thought
it had ended.
So that was one thing.
And then just the sisterhoodseeing how Miss America doesn't
really feel like a competition.
It's like seeing friends iscoming together with ladies from
all across the state andthey're helping each other and
(29:58):
you're relying on your roommateduring the week and you're
starting to help each other withyour social media posts.
So just realizing I mean I'veseen the sisterhood on the state
level, but just seeing it at agreater magnitude was so special
.
Raeanna Johnson (30:10):
I have loved that about the state season this
year all of the collabs onTikToks and Instagram posts
between the delegates at eachstate competition, just like the
whole group coming together,like it's really like it's
pulling people in and reallyshowing that.
That like relevancy to theorganization, like that constant
(30:34):
question that we get asked oflike is Miss America still
relevant as part of your, yourpreparation for competition?
Right?
And like I think that in and ofitself is showing that it's
relevant, is just how realeverybody is and when you get
together, it truly is just likea bunch of friends hanging out.
Carlehr Swanson (30:51):
Yes, and I think that's something so
special about the state class isbecause we all kind of went
through that same process.
Maybe you know doing your statecompetition multiple times, or
just the mental game or themental prep that you take to get
to that moment, or just themental game or the mental prep
that you take to get to thatmoment.
And when you hear other statetitle holders they talk about
these things, the mental gameand the balancing and the
schedule.
So I think we kind of all bondthrough having that shared
(31:14):
experience.
Raeanna Johnson (31:17):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
How did you handle theemotional letdown after Miss
America was done?
Carlehr Swanson (31:30):
I think there's an initial sadness because you
won it and you prepped for it,but then you have that moment of
I'm still my state title holderand there's still work to be
done and there's still adifference that I can make.
There's still work to be doneand there's still a difference
that I can make.
And I think, competing so manytimes, I've truly realized that,
(31:51):
whoever will, you know, god hadfor them that year.
You know the people that theymeet, the things that they do,
that's what God had for them.
And whatever happens with youknow, my placement is what God
had for me and there's alwayssomething to learn from that
situation.
Raeanna Johnson (32:08):
But there was someone with sadness and I had
to go get my pizza.
And you know, yeah, well, Imean, that was.
That was very much myexperience and what I've heard
from a lot of others too.
There's like this very drasticmix of emotions, this dichotomy
of emotions that are soconflicting, of like, like the
like oh my gosh, I just did thatthing, and the gratitude and
(32:30):
the memories that you're likeprocessing from the whole
experience and the whirlwindthat it was.
And and then also this like, ohmy gosh, like it's over, like
it felt like it took so muchenergy and time to get here and
now it's done and like that's it.
And I still I'm over a decadeout and I still have Miss
(32:50):
America dreams, like I'll wakeup and be like, oh my gosh, like
I just had a dream that I waspreparing to compete at Miss
America.
And then again that realization.
Carlehr Swanson (32:57):
I'm like nope, that'll never happen again
because it is a once in alifetime thing and I think it
being once in a lifetime thingmakes it a little difficult at
times because you always thinkabout what could I have done
better, or what could I havechanged, or if I had one more
opportunity I would try it thisway.
But I think it's always justimportant to kind of just accept
(33:17):
that you know I did the bestthat I could do in that moment.
I did the best with what I hadand what I could do.
So that's also been a part ofit.
But I think one special thingthat made it better afterwards
we had catered Chipotlebackstage and so all of the
ladies we went and got ourlittle Chipotle bowls and then
(33:37):
someone put the pageant livestream on their phone.
So we were all backstagewatching the pageant, eating our
Chipotle bowls.
Raeanna Johnson (33:47):
Oh, I love that .
Yeah, like that's kind of abonding experience right, like
mine was.
Like mine was one of the yearsthat they had us sitting on
stage watching the competition,so we all kind of had that
unique experience of sittingthere and cheering on the girls
and also processing our emotionsof having not made it into
finals at the same time.
It was just like such a weirdexperience.
All right, so when you cameback from Miss America, how did
(34:11):
you pick back up and go fullspeed, full steam, rather into
like doing all the things thatyou wanted to do without having
to worry about prepping for MissAmerica anymore?
And now we're just being MissVirginia yes, about prepping for
Miss America anymore, and nowwe're just being Miss Virginia.
Carlehr Swanson (34:32):
Yes, it was great because it felt like a
little break from what I wasused to.
So when I went back to like myschool tour, I felt refreshed
and kind of rejuvenated and Ialso started to think about more
.
So because I had more of thetime to think about okay now
what do I want to do with mycommunity service initiative?
What are my future goals?
So I was able to collaboratewith some universities because I
want to be a professor.
I was able to plan some concertseries that I were able to do
(34:57):
and also partner with somenonprofits, sing for Hope and
Music and Memory.
So after Miss America I justkind of had the mental freeness
to focus on some of the goalsthat I had and also focus on
some recruitment goals that Ihad for the organization through
social media and going todifferent colleges.
So I was able to just have thatcapacity to accomplish those
(35:19):
goals.
Raeanna Johnson (35:20):
Talk a little bit more about your initiative
and some of your favoriteaccomplishments that you had
this year.
Carlehr Swanson (35:26):
So my community service initiative is called
Music is Unity.
I started it in the eighthgrade.
I went to visit my grandmotherin a rehabilitation center.
She had fractured her back andshe hated being in this place
because everyone knew my grandmaGladys everyone in school,
everyone in the neighborhood,everyone at church so she hated
being isolated this placebecause everyone knew my grandma
Gladys everyone in school,everyone in the neighborhood,
everyone at church so she hatedbeing isolated.
And so I would go and visitGrandma Gladys every day and I
(35:49):
would sing and I would playsongs on the piano.
And I realized that a lot ofthe other patients there would
come and they would watch theseperformances because they didn't
have visitors.
And so I went back to school.
I told all the kids in my musicclass that music isn't just
about being on a stage.
It can make people feelsomething.
It can make them feel lesslonely.
So since the eighth grade Istarted planning these concerts
(36:13):
in nursing homes and going intoschools and talking about the
importance of music, and sothat's kind of expanded into me
showing other young peoplethroughout my school tour how
they can take music and be avehicle to help connect people,
no matter their backgrounds, thedemographic and through Music
is Unity.
I've been able to not onlypartner with my school tour and
(36:35):
talk to kids about positive,healthy choices, but how music
is a healthy choice, but alsopartnerships with these
nonprofits.
So Sing for Hope.
They have an initiative wherethey place colorful pianos in
random places across America andthey place these piano in
places to encourage people tomake music and to come together,
no matter where they are.
You might see these in subwaystations or airports just to
(36:59):
make this music.
And they have a branch inschools in Newport News, which
is a city in Virginia.
So I've been able to go tothese schools and play their
pianos and have performances fortheir students and talk about
music as unity.
And I've also been able topartner with Music in Memory,
because another part of mygrandmother, gladys.
She had Alzheimer's and what Irealized is that she couldn't
(37:24):
remember simple things like whatshe had just ate, but she could
remember the songs that we, youknow, sang in church when I was
growing up, so I would singwith her and, you know, play
music that she liked.
And so with this partnershipwith Music is Memory, I've been
able to, you know, talk aboutthe scientific evidence that
music improves memory, thatmusic can be used for a myriad
(37:47):
of memory issues and also, youknow, do that research, show
that research and go intonursing homes and talk about how
their memory care units need toinclude music.
So those have been a few things.
Also, another exciting thing Ihad a concert at the VA hospital
here in Virginia, in Richmond,and so I say music is unity.
(38:07):
But this was the first time Isaw it.
You know they had me in thehospital, just in the middle,
close to their cafe area, andwhile I was singing and playing,
you know I saw nurses stop anddoctors stop and patients and
residents and so anyone that wasthere.
They just kind of stopped andsang along with me at this
concert that I had, and I havethis video where you just pan
(38:29):
the room and you see people juststop in their tracks and sing
along.
So that was a really excitingmoment.
Raeanna Johnson (38:35):
That's so cool.
It's those things that aregoing to stick with you forever
and when people ask you aboutyour experience as Miss Virginia
, those are going to be the corememories.
So CSI work is a significantpart of the work that you do as
a state title holder.
(38:55):
Obviously it's your passionproject and everyone that steps
into the role has a differentCSI.
But then there's a lot ofresponsibilities that are
consistent for every singletitle holder.
Can you talk about some ofthose responsibilities that you
took on that you will then handover to the next Miss Virginia
in a couple of weeks?
Carlehr Swanson (39:11):
Yes, the organization is a volunteer
organization and it worksbecause people give so much to
the organization and the girl,and a huge part of being Miss
Virginia are our wonderfulsponsors that support this
program.
So I have a sponsored apartmentand a sponsored car and I get
sponsored clothing.
(39:31):
So it's really important thatyou're able to go to these
sponsors to thank them for thesewonderful gifts that they're
giving you consistently.
Also, being able to recruit newsponsors, finding people that
can help the organization andalso social media management.
That's part of you know,thanking the sponsors different,
(39:52):
you know.
So we have a sponsors trackingsheet where I can see every
sponsor that we have and youknow how many social media posts
do they get, how many visits dothey get.
So, in addition to my schooltour, which is planned and
scheduled for me, I have acertain amount of sponsor visits
, a certain amount of sponsorposts.
(40:13):
So that's through havingcertain visits that you do in
high schools and colleges andthen through social media, being
able to find girls throughsocial media or just having
creative content that drawsthose young ladies in your
(40:34):
personal community serviceinitiative and yes, I think
that's it Sponsors, communityservice and then appearances and
connections that you're able tomake throughout the state.
This year I've had a uniqueopportunity to work with the
governor and the first lady andto perform at the mansion, so
also being able to garnerconnections and create
(40:56):
appearances for yourself,because there are a number of
people that know about MissVirginia and they request her,
and these are the same peoplethat request her every year.
But then it's also your job toyou know, raise awareness about
the organization and createthose opportunities for yourself
.
Raeanna Johnson (41:11):
What was the recruitment like specifically?
I know that's a big hot topicfor women that want to recruit
more to come into thisorganization and participate.
We all like, love it so muchand we gain so much from it.
We just really want to sharethe wealth and pay that forward.
So what was your approach torecruitment and what were some
of your successes this year?
Carlehr Swanson (41:33):
Social media, social media, and I think social
media is so important.
I know that's like the clicheanswer, but I think some young
ladies think it's like a secretclub.
They don't know exactly how toget involved.
So it's really important thatthey not only see you in a
picture with your crown and sash, but having you know the
(41:53):
website, specific details on howyou can participate, things
like that.
And I think another great parthas been education.
So I want to be a professor andI have connections with
universities, so being able tomake appearances where the young
girls are.
So I was able to guest lecturein a business class where I
talked about confidence andinflection and using your voice
(42:15):
and things like that.
But I was also able to talkabout the Miss Virginia
opportunity and they had someyoung ladies that were also
interested.
And then, through my communityservice initiative, I've been
able to partner withorganizations and while I'm
there to do music, to perform,I'm also able to talk about the
Miss Virginia opportunity.
So I think being able tocombine opportunities that may
(42:36):
be music focused or communityservice focused, but using them
to also talk about, here's thiswonderful opportunity that I use
to combine all of my interests.
Raeanna Johnson (42:46):
Yeah, that's a perfect point.
You are in so many differentspaces all the time.
I think it's one of the valuesof the Miss America opportunity
for every single woman to have aunique initiative and passion
project, like I mentioned,because you're reaching
different people every singleyear and you're doing a
disservice if you're not alsothinking how can I strategically
(43:07):
also benefit the organizationor recruit?
While I'm doing this work thatI love doing as well, Part of
your job is to think about andbe creative in different ways
that you can elevate the titleand elevate the organization
ways that you can elevate thetitle and elevate the
(43:27):
organization.
Carlehr Swanson (43:28):
Yes, and a win that I had this year with
recruiting, thinking about thatbusiness class that I was able
to go to that university.
They have a university titleholder and so they were able to
participate in Miss Virginia.
So there's a rule aboutfestivals and locals.
So one of the young ladies thatI met on that visit became her
school's title holder andthey're able to compete in the
(43:50):
Miss Virginia pageant.
So just leveraging what Ialready have this connection
with education and academia andbeing able to connect them to
scholarship opportunities.
Raeanna Johnson (44:00):
What would you say was the hardest part about
your?
Carlehr Swanson (44:04):
year.
Finding that time to take careof myself.
That was just really hard forme.
I like to give everything I doa hundred percent.
I don't like letting peopledown.
I want to do everything right.
That's always been my thing.
Raeanna Johnson (44:20):
I want to do everything right.
Carlehr Swanson (44:21):
I don't want to do anything wrong, and I think
losing my voice was the worstpart of the year, because, as a
singer, I've never lost my voice, I've never had any type of
vocal issue, and I think thatwas really a wake up call to say
you're a grown up, you need tospeak up for yourself and really
take care of yourself, and yourvoice is something that you've
(44:42):
worked so hard on practicing.
You literally majored in it soit was really important that I
was able to speak up about thatand take care of it Were there
moments that you felt lonely.
Yes, I think, yes, I mean, it'sa lonely job.
You know you have a lot ofpeople around you, you know when
(45:05):
you win or you go to certainevents, but then you get in your
car and you maybe you drivethree hours and you go back to
the apartment and you're, byyourself, impact in what I just
(45:25):
did.
I think sometimes when yourhighs are really high, like
being a state title holder andmeeting lots of people and
taking lots of pictures yourlows feel really low.
So I try to remind myself ofthat in the moment that I just
did this amazing thing.
I just met the governor, I justspoke to a hundred kids.
So in those moments when I'mfeeling that, I'm trying to
remind myself, you know what isthe purpose, what is the impact,
and I'm feeling this waybecause I have this enormous
(45:47):
blessing.
Raeanna Johnson (45:49):
Is there anything you would have done
differently this year?
Carlehr Swanson (45:53):
I think I would have came in with the mindset
of taking care of myself.
Raeanna Johnson (45:58):
Okay, this is a theme.
Carlehr Swanson (46:01):
The voice thing really got me when that
happened, I think, taking careof myself, speaking up for
myself, I think, not worryingabout upsetting people.
I think when you're a peoplepleaser, by nature you try to
not upset people and I think ithurt me in the long run.
And that's saying there wassomething drastic that happened,
(46:22):
but just little things likevoicing and needing time off to
recuperate from being sick,things like that.
So just being an advocate formyself, knowing that I'm a
respectful person, so thateverything comes from love, and
making yourself a priority atthe beginning.
Raeanna Johnson (46:39):
Yeah, I think that's that's an interesting
point too, and I want to hearmore of your perspective on that
, because it's like you, you'retalking about being a people
pleaser and so, like you've likedon't create waves, like you
know, do all the things that youcan to.
You know, be appreciative andand do your job as best as you
can.
And so I think maybe there waslike we build this up in our
(47:02):
head, like it's going to be likesome really bad thing if we do
stand up for ourselves.
But what was the actualexperience when you did finally
start saying I just can't rightnow?
Carlehr Swanson (47:14):
We understand.
I'm glad you said something, orone great thing I learned along
the way is always challengepeople.
Like sometimes someone will saysomething to you and you will
just sit with it, you'll take it.
Oh, that was kind of offensiveor I didn't like the way that
felt.
I feel attacked a little bit.
But I think it's alwaysimportant to ask a follow-up
(47:35):
question, like what did you meanby that?
And what I've learned is thatsometimes it's not even what you
think, or you might thinksomeone's like critiquing I
don't know the way you saidsomething or what you wore and
really they were just saying myfavorite color is red.
I like when you wear red.
You know not that I dislike youin the blue.
So I think it's important toalways just ask a clarifying
(47:57):
question.
Raeanna Johnson (48:04):
That is advice that I wish I would have had
when I was competing, when I wasa tad older.
Because, yeah, like when you'realready like tired or sensitive
to things, like some of thoselittle comments that literally
don't mean anything, we can takeand like perceive as something
really horrible and it kind ofruin our experience.
Carlehr Swanson (48:19):
I think that was a big thing like preparing
for Miss America, and you havemock interviews and someone says
I would have liked to hear thisand you say well, I said this.
And then you ask a follow-upquestion.
He said oh, I just meant youshould have added some more
statistics in there.
So you start on the spiral.
This is awful, I can't do this,and they just literally bent at
more statistics.
Raeanna Johnson (48:41):
I love that.
I'm going to just take thatwith me.
Clarifying questions very, veryimportant what does life after
the crown look like for you?
Carlehr Swanson (48:51):
So I'm going into the fifth year of my PhD in
something called Critical andComparative Studies in Music and
I have one year left and I'llbe finishing my dissertation
talking about music andcommunity engagement.
So basically what I livedthrough this year and I'll be
applying for a professor job.
So I'll still be impactingstudents and I'm excited to use
(49:13):
the connections withuniversities and the people that
I met along the way to kind ofhelp facilitate that process.
Raeanna Johnson (49:20):
Has the grieving process started for you
yet?
Carlehr Swanson (49:23):
Oh gosh.
Yes, yeah, I'm trying to avoidit, I'm trying to think happy
thoughts and it really hit meback in May because I had my
last school visit and likethat's been the highlight of my
year meeting the kids andtalking to them and I had the
last visit and I had to remindmyself, well, you still have
(49:45):
some more weeks of being MissVirginia.
And then I find myself likestrolling through my phone
looking at memories and thingslike that.
But I just try to.
It's hard, you know, I wantedthis so bad and I was blessed
with it.
It and I had a great time and Imet wonderful people.
It made a huge impact.
But I have to remember that ifI'm going into a new beginning,
(50:07):
this next chapter, this one, hasto end.
Whoever gets it next.
You know that's the blessingthat God has for them.
So that keeps me positive.
But it's hard and my mom looksat me and she's like it's okay,
don't be sad, you know.
Raeanna Johnson (50:22):
And then she'll say, well, I'm a little sad too
, but it really is a grievingprocess, just like so many
things, and so let yourself feelall the feels and live in the
end in the joy and the gratitudeof it, but also the sadness of
things changing, because changeis hard.
Carlehr Swanson (50:39):
I'm trying to like pack the schedule forever.
Miss Virginia's are telling melike you need to have a trip
plan, have some things to do,because there's going to be a
big emptiness in your scheduleand you don't want to just go
back home and say, okay, nowwhat do I do?
So I'm going to go teach atheater camp.
That'll keep me occupied.
Raeanna Johnson (50:58):
Oh, beautiful, and that'll be, you know, in a
great like space for you to bein front of students and, yeah,
that'll be fulfilling.
What is your hope for?
Okay, let me ask it this wayyou have worked really hard to
create an impact this year and,to some extent, like you have so
much ownership of that and likeit becomes kind of like your
(51:19):
baby right throughout the year,and so what is your hope?
That the next Miss Virginiawill continue carrying out like
what you have started, or thatyou carried on from the, from
the last woman in this role?
Carlehr Swanson (51:34):
Charting your own path.
I think that's something that Iwas able to do this year just
bringing music to the schooltour, connections with
universities but that happenedbecause of who I am and the
connections that I already haveand the things I was already
doing.
So I think it's important forthe next person to assess their
(51:54):
abilities and the things thatthey're already doing and
they're already passionate about, and to chart their own year.
I think that's something that,year to year, we see state title
holders do.
They're able to use theirabilities and bring what they
have to the role, and I thinkthat's what I hope for the next
person.
I think you know it's either.
Or Sometimes someone chartstheir own territory and they
(52:17):
make their own path using theirunique gifts and talents, or
sometimes they see what theperson before them did and they
think they have to be a carboncopy of that, or that's the only
thing that works.
So I hope they just use theirgifts and talents to make a
difference.
Raeanna Johnson (52:33):
I think that can be an insecurity and a
limiting belief for a lot ofwomen that are in this journey
towards winning a local orwinning state, or they're on
their way to a nationalcompetition, of knowing they
want to stand out, hearing thatmessage of bring your unique
talents, bring your uniqueinsights and passion and skills
(52:54):
to the table.
But I think one of the limitingbeliefs can often be I don't
know what mine are and I don'tknow that mine are strong enough
.
And how do I really figure thatout?
What would you say to them?
Carlehr Swanson (53:07):
I think that's difficult.
I think when I first startedpageants, I think what made it
hard and made me feel notconfident is that I was worried
about finding those gifts andtalents.
Like I have this low voice andpeople would say speak higher.
And I would try to speak higherand I would try to be more
bubbly, or I would try to singsongs that I thought people
(53:28):
would like, or I would try tosay answers that I thought
people would like, and it wasn'tuntil I sat with myself and
said, okay, what do I think,what songs do I like, what songs
resonate with me, that I wasable to have the most success.
And I think it's important forpeople to be able to tell the
difference between opinion andadvice or things that they need
(53:48):
to improve, because some adviceis really helpful it's like you
should walk slower, that'shelpful advice.
But some opinions, like youshould sing these types of songs
, you know that's not reallyhelpful.
So I think being able to firstsit with yourself and assess
what are your gifts and yourtalents and sometimes we think
it's hard to do because weassociate gifts and talents with
(54:11):
, like, a job or a major inschool but they're the thing
that comes naturally to us.
So being able to assess andfind what that is, or asking
those around you what do youthink when I come around, what
does that make you feel like?
Being able to assess and thenalso being able to tell the
difference between that commentthat someone made to me is that
(54:33):
helpful?
Can I use it and get better?
Can I actually take it andimprove myself?
And then using that if it'shelpful and it's useful.
Raeanna Johnson (54:47):
Right.
So, as we wrap up, I want forsure, I want you to have the
last word, because you have justso much insight and love
pouring out of you.
So what is on your mind thatyou want to make sure that
everyone takes away from this?
And maybe a beautiful way tobookend our conversation from
the beginning, when I sharedyour overall message and how you
have approached your year, butfrom your own words.
Carlehr Swanson (55:13):
God is faithful .
He fulfilled his promise to me.
This was something I set out todo over 10 years ago and, no
matter what it looked like, heprepared this perfect time for
me, and, in gratitude of himpreparing this perfect time for
me, I tried my best.
I tried my best, and I alwaysshowed up and pray that God's
(55:35):
light will shine through, and hefulfilled that promise as well,
and so I'm just so grateful tohave had this moment and this
opportunity and to also justwalk into the next season taking
away all of the things that Ilearned from this year.
Raeanna Johnson (55:52):
Thank you.
What a beautiful way to wrap upthis series with you, carlia.
You are truly just theembodiment of everything that
you had just said and Iappreciate you so much for that,
and I really hope that everyonelistening really feels that
love and encouragement from youas they listen to this
(56:12):
conversation too.
As they listen to thisconversation too because I mean
everyone that I have talked toevery title holder in the crown
and candid series has come withtheir unique perspective, their
unique journey to getting towhere they are, their unique
experiences of holding thistitle and have grown in in
(56:33):
various ways.
And so it's it's been sofascinating, from where I sit,
to see all of that, um, you know, in conversations unfolding in
front of me and, um, I, just I,really I have so much gratitude
for the privilege that I have tosit here and have these
conversations with you and, like, have a candid conversation
(56:54):
with you about your uniqueexperience and to hear you, um
be really open and full of loveand full of heart and authentic
in what you're saying.
So thank you so much for beinga part of this series and for
helping me wrap it up in such alovely way, and I'm just so
thrilled for you to wrap up youryear and look back with nothing
(57:14):
but love for your experienceand move forward with nothing
but excitement and joy for whatcomes next.
Carlehr Swanson (57:23):
Thank you so much and thank you for having me
, but also thank you forcreating the space for other
title holders to listen in andto learn and to see the behind
the scenes and learn about whatthis job is really about, and
also just shining a light on allof us state title holder
stories.
Thank you.
Raeanna Johnson (57:40):
Yeah, you're welcome.
It really has been a privilegeand a joy.
So thanks again for being partof it and to you all, my
beautiful Sash and Soulcommunity, thanks for sticking
with me, for being a part ofthis journey as well, and I will
be back next week with, I'vebeen saying, the regularly
scheduled programming with a lotof insight about kind of
(58:01):
wrapping up state competitionseason, wrapping up the season
of the Fearlessly AuthenticMastermind and the things that
I've really learned throughoutthe season working with clients
from across the country andhaving these conversations on
Sash and Soul as well.
So I will see you then.
In the meantime, take care ofyourselves and be well.
(58:22):
We'll see you then, bye.
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