January 5, 2021 • 46 mins
An introduction to the Early Christian Lifestyle. Tells why other people thought the original Christians were "a new race of humans," and why that fact has been "buried" for 1,700 years. The episode opens a "Time Capsule" that reveals how to live today like an original Christian - with amazing results.
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Episode Transcript
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John (00:00):
John Shields opens the episode by saying
friends! And welcome to the veryfirst episode of the new"Saving
Christianity" podcast, broughtto you by the Christian family
(00:23):
Online in America.
I'm your host, John Shields.
And, in this first episode ofthe podcast, we're going to
discuss some surprising factsfrom the book, Saving
Christianity.
Saving Christianity is a bookthat tells us how to have more
peace, healing, and hope in ourlives.
(00:46):
And it's the book that also gavethis podcast it's name.
Now, the title of this firstepisode is"The Time Capsule."
(Repeats.) And in this episode,you're going to hear some facts
about Christianity that havebeen buried for 19 centuries.
(01:11):
The Good News about these factsis that you're going to be
encouraged and inspired by them.
But as I said, the"time capsule"we're talking about in this
episode has been buried for1,900 long and lonely years.
(01:34):
That explains why so manyChristians have never heard the
things you're about to hear.
Now, before we start, let'sanswer a question that you're
probably already askingyourself.
And it's this:"Why do I need tohear these facts?" Well, you
(01:55):
probably noticed that our logofor this podcast promises"A
Return To Peace Healing AndHope." So, if more peace,
healing, and hope, sound likesomething that would help you
and your loved ones, stay tuned!But I want to stop here to
(02:19):
introduce my best friend, andthe co-host of"Saving
Christianity" podcast, OwenAllen.
Owen, why don't you say a fewwords to our friends?
Owen (02:30):
Well, thank you, John! It's a great and honest pleasure
to kick off the new"SavingChristianity" podcast with you.
This moment is something we'vetalked about for many, many
years.
And of course, with thepublication recently of the book
Saving Christianity, I guess youcould say the podcast has
(02:52):
finally become possible.
John (02:54):
Yeah.
This is a historic moment forus.
We're talking about really 30years(of talking about it).
And so this is a culmination ofa lot of things that(our
friends) are going to be hearingabout.
Owen (03:08):
Very much so, John.
But before we start, let memention a fact that I think all
of our friends already know fromwatching TV and surfing the
Internet.
And it's this (03:20):
Christianity is in trouble today.
I hate to say it, but it's true.
Christianity is shrinkingrapidly.
In other words, there are fewerand fewer Christians each year.
And here's why that matters.
Christianity is the mostrewarding, fulfilling, and
(03:44):
miraculous experience on planetearth.
I mean that.
So there should be moreChristians each year, not less
Christians each year.
John (03:57):
Yeah, certainly.
Totally.
But what does this fact-- andand it's an important one-- that
Christianity is shrinking, meanfor our listeners today?
Owen (04:12):
Well, I think it raises some important questions that
all of us-- everybody-- shouldbe asking ourselves.
Questions like (04:19):
Why is Christianity shrinking instead
of growing?
Why do so many Christians haveless peace, healing, and hope,
instead of more?
And most important of all, howcan our friends, those listening
(04:40):
in their cars, and theirkitchens, and their offices,
wherever they are at this moment...
how can they have more peace,healing, and hope in their
personal lives?
John (04:52):
Well, something about our podcast that I'm really, really,
excited about is this.
Years ago, I was working for afriend of mine who was my boss,
and he had a little saying forus.
It was this:"Don't come to mewith a problem unless you have
the solution." And so I'mexcited that not only are we
(05:16):
discussing facts and theproblem, but we're also going to
answer those questions for ourfriends, aren't we.
Owen (05:22):
Absolutely.
Totally.
And by the way, those are onlysome"starter" questions that may
shock some of our friendslistening.
But we're going to answer all ofthose questions, and many more
like them.
John (05:36):
Fantastic.
I know I can't wait, as wecontinue to talk about this.
I think we're ready to startnow.
So why don't we tell our friendsabout the"time capsule" now.
Let's start with the story ofthe crisis you had several years
ago.
Owen (05:56):
Okay, John.
And this will be, I guess, ourfirst true story of the podcast.
And it's the key.
The story I'm about to tell isthe key to this episode, and to
the"time capsule." And you know,John, when you think about it,
our friends need to know thatwe're going to tell a lot of
true stories in this podcast: Stories about you; stories about (06:15):
undefined
me; stories about our families,and stories about our friends.
John (06:25):
This is actually not only a true story, but I love the
fact that it's personal.
Owen (06:32):
Yeah.
And, you know, we want to bepersonal! I mean, what could be
more personal than Christianity?
So this is our first true story.
It's about me.
And here's the point.
This story is about the timethat I became so discouraged
with Christianity that I gaveup.
John (06:51):
Yeah.
I remember many years ago youtelling me that story.
How you were out on the lakealone on your boat, and had just
thrown in the proverbial towel,and and the Lord spoke to you.
(07:11):
You said you had given up onChristianity at that time.
Owen (07:15):
I'm sorry to say that I did.
And as you know, John, I wasraised in a Christian home.
You know that I've been aChristian since age 11.
But my problem was that I keptbeing hurt and disappointed by
what other Christians said anddid.
If I may be cold-bloodedlyhonest here, I saw other
(07:37):
Christians having affairs,reading pornographic magazines,
cursing, doing all kinds ofthings that were unchristian.
And it seemed to me that nobody,not even the pastors of my
congregations that I looked upto, could do anything about it.
John (07:58):
Yeah.
And that reminds me of my uncleone time who asked me from a
business world perspective,"What's your product as a
Christian?" And I said, wellpart of it is changed lives! So
what you're suggesting is thatyou haven't seen too many
changed lives.
So what happened?
Owen (08:17):
Unless it was in the opposite(the bad) direction!
(Laughter.) Well, when I reachedmy early thirties, John, the
problem came to a head, becausemy congregation had what we call
in the Christian world a"ChurchSplit."
John (08:31):
Sounds like that should be an oxymoron(a contradiction).
Owen (08:34):
Well, a certain decision arose in the congregation.
I won't reveal what it was.
But half of the members agreedwith the decision, and half of
the members disagreed with thedecision.
And for weeks, the congregationgossiped, and argued, and had
meetings about the decision.
(08:55):
Over the weeks, things got soheated that members were now
shouting at one another andthrowing hymn books at one
another.
And then the congregation"Split." What that means is that
half of the families left andstarted a new congregation on
the other side of town.
The other half stayed-- and thatincluded my family-- in the
(09:17):
original building.
But they were so depressed andhurt that they were never the
same.
John (09:24):
Yeah.
Owen, when I hear you say that,and I know from some of my own
experiences(that it's true), Ihave a feeling that among our
listeners, many of them, arenodding in agreement.
Owen (09:35):
Sadly.
I mean, think about what we'resaying, John.
It was horrible.
But think about this (09:39):
The truth is that both sides of the"Split"
were hurt.
Both groups of families werepermanently wounded, and many
never spoke to one anotheragain.
They would avoid each other inthe supermarket.
And I was so discouraged bythat, and so hurt by that, that
(10:00):
I gave up on Christianity, and Ididn't worship anywhere after
that for several years.
John (10:06):
Well, obviously the very fact that we're sitting here
talking about this means thatsomething brought you back.
What was that, Owen?
Owen (10:15):
Well, you need to know that I had a research job at the
time in St.
Louis, Missouri.
And one day I read a Galluppoll.
And this Gallup poll told me why"Church Splits" happen.
It was a national poll ofChristians.
And here's what it found.
Listen to this (10:36):
It found that the average Christian is no more
spiritual than a non-Christian.
(Repeats.) And John, youremember, that I knew George
Gallop personally.
He's deceased now.
(10:56):
But one night in Washington, wehad dinner, and he told me about
this poll, and how it shockedand hurt him and his research
staff to even compile it and seethe results.
John (11:10):
You know, Owen, we've talked about this many, many
times.
But maybe we should explain thisin a little clearer terms.
Owen (11:22):
Well, as the old man said, that's where"the fur flies."
Because in actual practice, whatthis Gallup poll found was this:
The average Christian-- and Iknow many of our listeners are
above average-- but the averageChristian has the same rate of
divorce, the same rate of childabuse, the same rate of drug
(11:44):
abuse, the same rate ofpornography addiction, and even
the same rate of white and bluecollar crime, as a
non-Christian.
John (11:54):
Well, that's hard for me to get my mind around.
But you're actually saying thatthe average professing Christian
is living the"template"(thelifestyle) of a non-Christian.
Owen (12:06):
Yes.
You can look at the people onthe street, and you can see no
difference.
Sad, but true.
So put it this way, John (12:12):
The average Christian has exactly
the same daily lifestyle as anon-Christian.
John (12:22):
I'm afraid that I agree, Owen.
That has truly been myexperience now for about 36
years.
Owen (12:30):
Well, let's stop and summarize here for our friends
who are listening (12:34):
The reason that Christians have so many
divorces, so much drug abuse,and so many other problems, is
that they're living-- let's getthis now-- on the same Spiritual
level as non-Christians.
And, since non-Christians haveall those kinds of problems in
(12:57):
their lives, then so does theaverage Christian.
John (13:00):
Wow.
So, we talked about in ouropening about answers to
questions! So, what did you doafter getting that really
shocking information from theGallup poll?
Owen (13:14):
Well, I thought it, and suffered, for a long time.
In fact, for many months.
And I kept asking myself thisquestion.
It rolled in my mind, even atnight:"Why don't Christians live
better lives thannon-Christians?" I kept
thinking,"Why don't Christianshave fewer addictions, fewer
(13:35):
abuses, than non-Christians?"Well, eventually, this choice--
this decision, this issue--formed in my mind.
And here it is.
I told it to many people overlunch, and dinner, and in
conversations.
And here it is (13:52):
Either Christianity is the biggest HOAX
ever pulled on Christians.
Or, Christians today are doingsomething WRONG.
They're misunderstandingsomething.
Or misapplying something, aboutChristianity.
John (14:12):
Wow.
Owen, that is quite anobservation.
Can you repeat that again?
Owen (14:19):
Let's try it this way.
Here was my issue.
I realized that one of twothings had to be true.
Either Christianity is nonsense.
Or Twenty-First CenturyChristians are living the
Christian life incorrectly insome way that I didn't
(14:42):
understand.
John (14:43):
Ouch.
I'm sure I know.
But when the dust finallysettled, which of these two
options did you choose?
Owen (14:55):
Well, you might not believe it, but I struggled.
But finally, in religion-- andthis applies to our friends who
are listening-- in the field ofreligion, all of us eventually
have to make some hard choices.
And so, finally I sat up in mychair,and I made a hard choice.
(15:18):
I said to myself,"Christianityis not a HOAX.
Christianity is TRUE!" But, thatleft me with a big PROBLEM to
solve (15:29):
I had to find out what it is that Christians are doing
incorrectly today!
John (15:40):
So, that was when you started your"quest."
Owen (15:43):
Absolutely.
That's when I finally started mythree year, round-the-clock
study of Early Christianity.
My wife, Joanna, literallybrought me my meals on a tray
and, except for sleeping andeating, I studied and read and
worked on my computer, andworked on the internet, for
(16:05):
three straight years.
By the way, that story is in theIntroduction to the book,"Saving
Christianity." And that's thereason everything we're saying,
in fact, on this episode, is inthat book.
And that's why I'm hoping--we're hoping-- that every one of
our listeners will get a copy,either on the Amazon or the
(16:27):
Barnes and Noble website, sothey can follow along with these
points that we're making.
John (16:33):
Right.
Owen, I was privileged to kindof have an insider's view of all
that.
I was in college when you weredoing that.
But I can assure our friends,that it's(the book Saving
Christianity) one of the mostpractical and unusual books I've
ever read.
And anyone who reads it willreach that conclusion, I think.
(16:58):
But tell me, what did you hopeto find out in the quest?
Owen (17:04):
Well, let's put it this way, John.
I wanted to find out how the"inventors" of Christianity
lived.
I wanted to find out how the"founders" behaved.
Why?
Well, as the old joke goes,"Wheneverything else fails, read the
(17:25):
instructions!" And that's what Idid.
That's something we all learnedas young parents on Christmas
Eve! When you can't get it done,read the instructions!
John (17:35):
For sure! You know, that's an unusual viewpoint! You
rarely, if ever, look at itthrough that lens.
So let's talk about the researchthat you did.
Owen (17:47):
Well, first, over a period of three years, I read over 300
books on the Early Christians.
Many were rare or out-of-printbooks.
But I also traveled to Italy,and Greece, and Israel, and
Turkey, to study the EarlyChristian ruins, and symbols,
(18:07):
and paintings, and letters, andartifacts, that the original
Christians left behind.
John (18:14):
So, that's what brings us to actually calling this episode
"digging up the'Time Capsule'."
Owen (18:21):
Exactly.
That's why we're calling thisepisode that.
And by the way, we might as wellstop here and remind our friends
what a"time capsule" is.
John (18:34):
And we're actually using that term, Owen, as a symbol,
correct?
Owen (18:39):
Yes, let's use it today as a symbol.
But you know, there really are"time capsules." I guess most
people have never seen them.
So, let's tell our listenerswhat a" time capsule" in reality
is.
It's a box, or a place.
It can be a cave, or a grave,that contains coins, and
(19:00):
symbols, and letters, and art,and clothes, and personal items,
that one group of people buriesor leaves, so that another group
of people can dig it up later.
And here's why (19:12):
To find out how that first group lived.
John (19:17):
Right.
And such as the way people putthings in the cornerstones of
new buildings.
Or maybe like the tombs of theEgyptian pharaohs.
That sort of thing.
Owen (19:29):
Yeah, because stop and think about the famous King
Tut's tomb that was excavated.
We learned so much more aboutthe ancient Egyptian people that
nobody had known.
And we learned it from all thestuff that was buried at his
tomb.
So, except that in my case,Early Christian history was my
(19:54):
"time capsule." I dug up thelifestyle of the original
Christians by reading theirletters and studying their
symbology.
A lot of people don't know thatthey left many symbols.
They left art.
Even their graves containeditems.
(20:14):
And even some of the ruins oftheir ancient ho mes.
John, for example, later in anepisode, we'll talk about the
ruins of the apostle Peter'shome, which still stand to day i
n Capernaum, Is rael.
And I've studied those ruinscarefully.
I was trying to find out what itwas that made those Early
(20:36):
Christians unique.
John (20:38):
Well, since this is true, shouldn't we define the term
"Early Christian history," sincethat's the context from which
we're working?
Owen (20:52):
Good point! Okay, researchers define"Early
Christian history" as the first300 years of Christianity
(repeats), including, obviously,parts of the First, Second and
Third Centuries of worldhistory.
(21:13):
But-- and, John, this isimportant-- what we're calling
our"time capsule" is only a100-year-slice out of those
three centuries.
In fact, that slice goes fromthe Middle of the First Century,
to the Middle of the SecondCentury: 100 years.
John (21:36):
xxx Now, we're limiting our"time capsule" to a
100-year-slice, right?
Owen (21:45):
And here's why.
Hang on to your hat.
Because that was the lifespan ofthe very first Christian
families.
Stop and think about that.
What if we were investigatinghow airplanes were invented?
Wouldn't we be interested in thefamilies that worked on that and
knew all about it?
(22:08):
That would be the Wrightbrothers and their families.
Or what if we were studyingassembly lines how were they
invented?
Then we'd study the Ford familyand their immediate relatives.
And so, that's what we'relooking in that 100-year-slice
of ancient history.
It includes the lifespan of thevery first Christian families.
John (22:32):
Yeah.
And that's so unusual.
To be that specific.
I'm not sure we ever hearanything about first century
families.
But we're limiting that quest tothe families of the very first
(22:53):
Christians.
Owen (22:54):
And here's why.
A lot of people don't know this,John.
But the average lifespan of aperson in the First and Second
Centuries was 40 years.
Imagine that.
40 years! Then it was over.
So that means that with thesefirst families, we're talking
about the people who knew whyChristianity was invented in the
(23:18):
first place.
They lived it for 40 years.
Of course, Peter and Paul-- twoof the most famous early
Christians-- were unusual.
They lived to their sixties.
And the apostle John, who was ateenager when Jesus was walking
the earth, broke all records byliving to 92.
(23:38):
But most of them died young.
You know, Jesus died at 33, andmany of His apostles died young
too.
John (23:47):
But, Owen.
I have to ask this.
Why is that 40-year lifespan sosignificant?
Owen (23:57):
I can answer that in two words, John:"Accurate Evidence!"
My quest was to collect accurateevidence on these first families
-- and on what made them unique.
And all that happened, as I saidearlier, from the Middle of the
First Century to the Middle ofthe Second Century.
(24:18):
For example, the first accurateevidence...
and many people listeningcouldn't answer this...
the first accurate evidence everdiscovered about the early
Christians is in a letter datedin 45 AD.
So if we round that off, andjust say 50 AD, that's the
(24:41):
Middle of the First Century.
And let's assume that the personwho wrote that letter was about
20 at the time.
So, we add 20 years to him tomake a complete lifespan, and
that brings us to 70 AD.
But wait a minute.
All of the original Christiansalso had children.
(25:01):
We know, for example, that theapostle Peter traveled with his
wife and children.
So, we've got to add 40 yearsfor the children, too.
That brings us to one 110 AD.
But think about this.
All of the original Christiansalso had grandchildren.
And as you know, grandchildrenknow their grandparents, and
they hear all the family storiesat reunions.
And since the grandchildren knewall about the original Christian
(25:22):
lifestyle too, we need to add 40years for them.
That brings us to 150 AD.
That's the Middle of the SecondCentury.
And that's where accurateevidence about the original
Christians starts to fade out.
John (25:34):
Yeah, so that 40-year lifespan(of the Early
Christians) is very significant.
But also talk a little bit aboutwhy the Middle of the Second
Century is so important.
Owen (25:47):
Well, that's when we have the last accurate evidence about
the last generation of theoriginal Christian families.
That evidence is only availablein that 100-year-slice of
history that we're calling our"time capsule." After the Middle
of the Second Century, accurateinformation on them starts to
fade out of the history books.
John (26:09):
Okay, so our friends are probably wanting to know why
we're limiting our"time capsule"to the families of the first
Christians.
Owen (26:20):
Yeah, what's interesting is that you'd think(accurate
evidence) would come from thefamous writers or someone of
that period.
But here's why.
If you're doing good research,talk to an FBI agent, or talk to
a police detective.
You always want to collect yourevidence from as close to the
event in time as possible.
(26:41):
Also, you want use eye witnessesas much as possible.
So check this out.
I limited my quest to people whohad known Jesus-- because He's
the founder of Christianity--and to people who had known
people who had known Him
John (27:02):
So you limited your quest to three generations, right?
Because three generations arewhat we call an" immediate
family," right?
Owen (27:09):
Exactly.
Researchers call the parents,children, and grandchildren of
any family the"immediatefamily." And those are the ones
we wanted to study.
What made them different?
Why was it about theirrelationship with Jesus and the
Holy spirit that made them sodifferent?
(27:31):
And all that information startsto die out with the third
generation of the firstChristian families.
John (27:39):
So, the most accurate evidence in our"time capsule"
comes from the first threegenerations of the first
Christian families.
Owen (27:50):
Absolutely.
You nailed it.
So let's summarize quickly.
We don't want this to be tootechnical for our dear friends
who are listening.
Here's our summary (28:01):
Early Christian history is the
300-year-period of the First,Second, and Third centuries.
But the"time capsule" we'reexplaining in this episode is
only a 100-year-slice of thosecenturies that covers the first
three generations of the firstChristian families.
John (28:23):
Okay, let me make sure I understand this.
Research into Early Christianitycan really be based on the
principle of the 40-yearlifespan.
Owen (28:35):
I think so.
I think that was a twist I feltled to do.
And many researchers haveoverlooked that principle.
So you could also say it thisway: Early Christian history is
about 300 years.
So if you divide that by thenumber 40, you're looking at
about the first eightgenerations of the Early
(28:56):
Christians.
But we're limiting our"timecapsule" to only the first three
of those eight Christiangenerations.
John (29:04):
I got it.
We're just taking a slice ofthat history.
But let's ask another question.
Why did-- and I think this is soimportant-- why did Early
Christian history end after only300 years?
Owen (29:23):
That's the whole point.
That's where the worm turns.
Because that's the exact tragedythat we're producing this
podcast to discuss and toexplain to people.
Because Early Christian historydid end with the dawn of the
(29:46):
Fourth Century.
And the wonderful lifestyle ofpeace, healing, and hope that
those first Christian familiesenjoyed faded away at that time.
John (30:01):
Obviously, that didn't happen in a vacuum.
So why did it?
That's the question we'reasking.
Why did the Early Christianlifestyle fade away at the start
of the Fourth Century?
Owen (30:19):
That's amazing, isn't it! Really, I personally think that
our friends would agree withthat.
That's one of the most importantquestions in history.
Because the answer to thatquestion tells us why
Christianity is shrinking today,and why its influence on society
(30:43):
is fading away.
It's the purpose of this podcastis to answer those questions!
Why did Christianity die at thedawn of the Fourth Century?
And more than that, why don'tmore Christians today know the
(31:06):
answer to that question?
Well, the Good News is thatwe're going to explain all of
that, and answer all of thosequestions, fully and completely,
as we move along.
John (31:22):
Great! I'm looking forward to those answers! It's going to
be a life-changing experiencefor our friends.
But let's back up just a moment.
We've been talking a lot about"The Early Christian Lifestyle."
So what is that?
Owen (31:43):
That's a another great question.
And now we're moving into partsof the answer to our questions.
Because researchers say that a"lifestyle" is simply a type of
behavior.
It's simply a way of living.
It's a style of conduct that agroup of people have.
(32:03):
And listen, the reason that'simportant in our case and in
this podcast, is because whenyou see a person's lifestyle,
you're looking at that person'sSpiritual level.
John (32:19):
Okay.
So, is it a good thing to seepeople's lifestyles?
Owen (32:25):
Well, I think it is.
I think it's important to seepeople's lifestyles.
I mean, that's the whole messageof this episode.
Why?
Because the Early Christianswere the most Spiritual people
on earth.
And that's what Christians areintended to be-- at all times,
and in all places.
(32:47):
Let's repeat that.
A lot of people haven't thoughtthis through.
The Early Christian families, inthe time slot that we're talking
about, were the most Spiritualpeople on earth.
You can read about that.
We know the miracles thathappened to them, the angels
that appeared and guided them,and so forth.
(33:08):
We know these wonderful things.
But here's the point (33:10):
Christians at all times, and in all places,
and in all ages, are supposed tolive that same lifestyle!
John (33:21):
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment.
How do we know that?
Owen (33:26):
It's a matter of recorded history.
It's not an opinion.
It's not something that was justmade up.
Other people-- mind you, peoplewho were not Christians, people
who were what I callnon-Christians-- saw the
Spiritual behavior in thoseChristian families.
(33:48):
And they wrote about it.
And then those written reports,those ancient documents, came
down through history, andthey're in the museums today.
John (33:59):
Right! Let's talk about one example today.
Owen (34:04):
Okay.
One example.
Here's probably a good, quick,easy example.
It's an incident that happenedin Second Century Rome.
Here we are, again, in theMiddle of the Second Century.
There was a man named Natalis.
He was not a Christian.
And he was standing with a groupof friends who also were not
Christians.
(34:26):
And they were watching thebehavior of a group of the Early
Christians in the street.
Imagine this now.
I don't know if they were on abalcony, or where they were.
But they were watching some ofthe Early Christians in the
street.
And after they watched a fewminutes, Natalis turned to his
friends, and here's what hesaid.
(34:46):
And I quote:"Look at them! Theylove one another almost before
they know one another!"(Repeats.)
John (35:01):
I haven't heard anyone say that(about Christians) lately!
Owen (35:03):
Tell me about it! And by the way, that story is in the
Introduction of our book,"SavingChristianity."
John (35:11):
Well, Owen.
You know me well enough to knowthat I'm kind of a bottom line
guy.
So, I would say to that, what'sthe point of that story for us?
Owen (35:24):
Well, here's the point.
The story of Natalis proves whatwe've been saying about the
Early Christian lifestyle.
It proves the kind of behaviorthat the early had.
They had Spiritual behavior.
That's another word for"supernatural" behavior-- which
isn't a bad word, even thoughHollywood has stolen it for
(35:49):
Frankenstein movies.
What it means is somethingthat's beyond what's natural and
normal.
So it was supernatural behaviorthat Natalis saw.
Other people didn't have it.
It wasn't natural.
It was supernatural.
And that's the point ofChristianity.
Christians are people withsupernatural behavior.
John (36:12):
So, he saw their behavior.
He actually observed it.
And, obviously the conclusion isthat this was a lifestyle for
them.
And furthermore, that lifestylewas supernatural, right?
Owen (36:28):
Exactamente!("Exactly," in Spanish.) You know, if you asked
a typical Christian today,"Excuse me, do you have
supernatural behavior?" They'dfaint.
But, they should say,"PraiseGod, yes!" So as we said
earlier, if you see a person'slifestyle, you're looking at
(36:51):
that person's Spiritual level.
You're seeing how Spiritual thatperson's behavior is.
And that's what Natalis saw inRome.
He was amazed at how Spiritualtheir lifestyle was! Listen to
this (37:07):
What he saw on the street was not human love.
All people have that.
What he saw on the street wasSpiritual love.
And that's an importantdifference that our friends
really ought to think about.
John (37:22):
Right.
So actually, he saw in themsomething that he knew he didn't
have.
Right?
Owen (37:30):
Exactly.
And something that he wanted!
John (37:32):
And something that he wanted.
So, what about this?
So, we're saying that, in thiscontext, non-Christians don't
have Spiritual behavior.
Owen (37:47):
Well, that's a blunt statement.
But in truth and in fact, theydon't.
I mean, that's the principlethat our"time capsule" has
revealed here.
Non-Christians don't have it.
They don't have supernaturalbehavior.
They're not equipped for it.
They haven't received it,because they're not Christians.
(38:09):
And that's why originalChristianity, and I use that
word carefully-- ORIGINALChristianity-- was different
from the other religions of thatday.
Think about it.
There were about 400 otherreligions of that day.
But Christianity gave its peoplesupernatural love, joy, peace,
(38:33):
patience, hope.
And the other religions didn'tgive that to their members.
So why do you think Christianityspread worldwide in only 70
years?
In 70 years, it was in everycountry, in every city.
Why?
Because non-Christians saw thatsupernatural behavior, they
(38:55):
wanted it too.
So they became Christians to getit.
And Christianity spread by thatprocess.
John (39:02):
And, as the old saying goes,"The world was never the
same."
Owen (39:06):
And, it wasn't supposed to be!(Laughter.) That's the point.
To give people lives that arefilled with supernatural peace,
healing, and hope!
John (39:17):
And other religions don't offer their members that.
So that's a very, very importantpoint.
And the Great News is that it'sstill true today, isn't it.
Owen (39:31):
Okay.
John, you just put your fingeron the most important principle
in this episode.
The purpose of Christianity hasnever changed.
It's the same today as it wasduring the years of the"time
capsule" that we're digging up.
The purpose of Christianity isto give people lives that are
(39:54):
full of supernatural peace,healing, and hope, that no other
experience, religion, cult, orbelief on earth can give them.
John (40:05):
Yeah.
And obviously, part of thereason-- our motivation-- for
this podcast even, is that wewant everyone, all of our
friends, to be filled with thatsupernatural power, don't we?
Owen (40:22):
Absolutely! And I'm hoping as these episodes roll along,
that will actually happen.
But you know, John, I'm sorry tosay it, but I just looked at the
big clock on the wall, and it'stime to close Episode 01.
But you know, I'd like tosummarize everything that we've
(40:42):
said.
And I think maybe one good wayto do that is to read a few
sentences from the Introductionof the book,"Saving
Christianity."
John (40:53):
Great.
That's a good way for us toclose today, Owen.
So, what part of theIntroduction are you going to
read?
Owen (41:00):
Okay.
Let's read that part where I'mtalking about my three years of
research.
And let me quote thosesentences.
Now, here we go:
(41:08):
"During my research, it finally dawned on me that I had
grown up without knowinganything about how the original
Christians lived and behaved.
For example, I didn't know thatthey weren't originally called
'Christians.' I didn't know thatthey didn't have buildings
(41:32):
called'churches.' I didn't knowthat they didn't have preachers,
pulpits, or pews.
Or that they didn't have choirs,candles, or crosses.
Or that they didn't havebulletins, Bibles, or bazaars.
Or that they didn't have organs,offering plates, or orchestras.
In fact, I didn't realize theydidn't have much of anything
(41:52):
that we call'Christianity'today.
So what did they have?
They had incredibleSpirituality.
They were so incrediblySpiritual that they turned the
whole world upside downSpiritually in only 70 years.
Their lives were filled withhealings, peace, love, and
(42:13):
courage.
Their behavior was so differentfrom other people that
non-Christians thought they werea'new kind of humans' that had
somehow appeared on earth." Endof quote.
And John, that last sentence issomething that many Christians
have never heard.
(42:35):
The original Christians had suchSpiritual behavior that
non-Christians thought they werea'new race of people' that had
somehow appeared on earth.
John (42:45):
Wow.
Yeah, that is amazing.
And, I don't know manyChristians who know that.
Owen (42:50):
Nah, but you know, it's a critical fact.
And all of us need to thinkabout it.
All of us need to ask ourselveswhat that particular kind of
Christianity could-- and should-- mean to us personally.
And to our children.
And to our families.
And the Good News is, we'regoing to continue exploring that
(43:11):
idea even deeper in Episode 02.
John (43:15):
And that's why we're so excited about this.
And that's why we're asking allof you, all of our friends, to
tune in to Episode 02.
Owen (43:25):
Yeah.
Subscribe to this podcast!Because we've only scratched the
surface.
And remember, this is Episode01.
And a script and recording of itare on The Christian Family
Online in America website.
That same website doubles as mypersonal blog.
(43:46):
And if our listeners want toaccess the script and/or the
recording of Episode 01, here'sall they have to do.
Go to www.CFOpods.com.
C-F-O-P-O-D-S.com on theInternet.
And click in the index at thetop.
(44:08):
Or just scroll down to Episode01 on the list.
John (44:12):
And let me encourage you to subscribe to this podcast, so
you'll get notifications forEpisode 02, and the rest of the
upcoming episodes.
Owen (44:22):
Yeah.
Don't forget! Get a copy of thebook,"Saving Christianity," so
you can follow along with theselife-changing facts that we're
talking about-- either at AmazonBooks; Barnes and Noble Books;
Thrift Books, or any of theother quality book websites.
John (44:40):
All of us need a copy of this.
And you can pick one up.
I know my copy is necessary.
Owen (44:47):
And our friends need to know, John, that now Episode 02
is coming up.
It's going to be veryinteresting, because we're going
to talk about what the Christian"fish" symbol originally meant.
You know, John, that's thelittle symbol that you see on
people's car bumpers.
But here's the problem.
(45:08):
It did not originally mean whatpeople think it means today.
We're also going to talk aboutwhy Christians were not
originally called"Christians." Alot of people don't realize that
this was not the original namefor us.
A lot of people don't know whatChristians were originally
(45:29):
called.
And so, we're going to get intothat.
Why they were called what theywere called.
So there's a way you could saythat Episode 02 digs up even
more amazing facts from our"timecapsule." But now, this is Owen
Allen...
John (45:45):
And this is John Shields ...
(45:49):
...
saying (45:49):
May the God of our fathers bless you, and keep you,
and guide you, and protect you,until we meet again.
Owen and John (46:07):
Owen and John end the episode.
John Shields opens the episode by saying
friends! And welcome to the veryfirst episode of the new"Saving
Christianity" podcast, broughtto you by the Christian family
(00:23):
Online in America.
I'm your host, John Shields.
And, in this first episode ofthe podcast, we're going to
discuss some surprising factsfrom the book, Saving
Christianity.
Saving Christianity is a bookthat tells us how to have more
peace, healing, and hope in ourlives.
(00:46):
And it's the book that also gavethis podcast it's name.
Now, the title of this firstepisode is"The Time Capsule."
(Repeats.) And in this episode,you're going to hear some facts
about Christianity that havebeen buried for 19 centuries.
(01:11):
The Good News about these factsis that you're going to be
encouraged and inspired by them.
But as I said, the"time capsule"we're talking about in this
episode has been buried for1,900 long and lonely years.
(01:34):
That explains why so manyChristians have never heard the
things you're about to hear.
Now, before we start, let'sanswer a question that you're
probably already askingyourself.
And it's this:"Why do I need tohear these facts?" Well, you
(01:55):
probably noticed that our logofor this podcast promises"A
Return To Peace Healing AndHope." So, if more peace,
healing, and hope, sound likesomething that would help you
and your loved ones, stay tuned!But I want to stop here to
(02:19):
introduce my best friend, andthe co-host of"Saving
Christianity" podcast, OwenAllen.
Owen, why don't you say a fewwords to our friends?
Owen (02:30):
Well, thank you, John! It's a great and honest pleasure
to kick off the new"SavingChristianity" podcast with you.
This moment is something we'vetalked about for many, many
years.
And of course, with thepublication recently of the book
Saving Christianity, I guess youcould say the podcast has
(02:52):
finally become possible.
John (02:54):
Yeah.
This is a historic moment forus.
We're talking about really 30years(of talking about it).
And so this is a culmination ofa lot of things that(our
friends) are going to be hearingabout.
Owen (03:08):
Very much so, John.
But before we start, let memention a fact that I think all
of our friends already know fromwatching TV and surfing the
Internet.
And it's this (03:20):
Christianity is in trouble today.
I hate to say it, but it's true.
Christianity is shrinkingrapidly.
In other words, there are fewerand fewer Christians each year.
And here's why that matters.
Christianity is the mostrewarding, fulfilling, and
(03:44):
miraculous experience on planetearth.
I mean that.
So there should be moreChristians each year, not less
Christians each year.
John (03:57):
Yeah, certainly.
Totally.
But what does this fact-- andand it's an important one-- that
Christianity is shrinking, meanfor our listeners today?
Owen (04:12):
Well, I think it raises some important questions that
all of us-- everybody-- shouldbe asking ourselves.
Questions like (04:19):
Why is Christianity shrinking instead
of growing?
Why do so many Christians haveless peace, healing, and hope,
instead of more?
And most important of all, howcan our friends, those listening
(04:40):
in their cars, and theirkitchens, and their offices,
wherever they are at this moment...
how can they have more peace,healing, and hope in their
personal lives?
John (04:52):
Well, something about our podcast that I'm really, really,
excited about is this.
Years ago, I was working for afriend of mine who was my boss,
and he had a little saying forus.
It was this:"Don't come to mewith a problem unless you have
the solution." And so I'mexcited that not only are we
(05:16):
discussing facts and theproblem, but we're also going to
answer those questions for ourfriends, aren't we.
Owen (05:22):
Absolutely.
Totally.
And by the way, those are onlysome"starter" questions that may
shock some of our friendslistening.
But we're going to answer all ofthose questions, and many more
like them.
John (05:36):
Fantastic.
I know I can't wait, as wecontinue to talk about this.
I think we're ready to startnow.
So why don't we tell our friendsabout the"time capsule" now.
Let's start with the story ofthe crisis you had several years
ago.
Owen (05:56):
Okay, John.
And this will be, I guess, ourfirst true story of the podcast.
And it's the key.
The story I'm about to tell isthe key to this episode, and to
the"time capsule." And you know,John, when you think about it,
our friends need to know thatwe're going to tell a lot of
true stories in this podcast: Stories about you; stories about (06:15):
undefined
me; stories about our families,and stories about our friends.
John (06:25):
This is actually not only a true story, but I love the
fact that it's personal.
Owen (06:32):
Yeah.
And, you know, we want to bepersonal! I mean, what could be
more personal than Christianity?
So this is our first true story.
It's about me.
And here's the point.
This story is about the timethat I became so discouraged
with Christianity that I gaveup.
John (06:51):
Yeah.
I remember many years ago youtelling me that story.
How you were out on the lakealone on your boat, and had just
thrown in the proverbial towel,and and the Lord spoke to you.
(07:11):
You said you had given up onChristianity at that time.
Owen (07:15):
I'm sorry to say that I did.
And as you know, John, I wasraised in a Christian home.
You know that I've been aChristian since age 11.
But my problem was that I keptbeing hurt and disappointed by
what other Christians said anddid.
If I may be cold-bloodedlyhonest here, I saw other
(07:37):
Christians having affairs,reading pornographic magazines,
cursing, doing all kinds ofthings that were unchristian.
And it seemed to me that nobody,not even the pastors of my
congregations that I looked upto, could do anything about it.
John (07:58):
Yeah.
And that reminds me of my uncleone time who asked me from a
business world perspective,"What's your product as a
Christian?" And I said, wellpart of it is changed lives! So
what you're suggesting is thatyou haven't seen too many
changed lives.
So what happened?
Owen (08:17):
Unless it was in the opposite(the bad) direction!
(Laughter.) Well, when I reachedmy early thirties, John, the
problem came to a head, becausemy congregation had what we call
in the Christian world a"ChurchSplit."
John (08:31):
Sounds like that should be an oxymoron(a contradiction).
Owen (08:34):
Well, a certain decision arose in the congregation.
I won't reveal what it was.
But half of the members agreedwith the decision, and half of
the members disagreed with thedecision.
And for weeks, the congregationgossiped, and argued, and had
meetings about the decision.
(08:55):
Over the weeks, things got soheated that members were now
shouting at one another andthrowing hymn books at one
another.
And then the congregation"Split." What that means is that
half of the families left andstarted a new congregation on
the other side of town.
The other half stayed-- and thatincluded my family-- in the
(09:17):
original building.
But they were so depressed andhurt that they were never the
same.
John (09:24):
Yeah.
Owen, when I hear you say that,and I know from some of my own
experiences(that it's true), Ihave a feeling that among our
listeners, many of them, arenodding in agreement.
Owen (09:35):
Sadly.
I mean, think about what we'resaying, John.
It was horrible.
But think about this (09:39):
The truth is that both sides of the"Split"
were hurt.
Both groups of families werepermanently wounded, and many
never spoke to one anotheragain.
They would avoid each other inthe supermarket.
And I was so discouraged bythat, and so hurt by that, that
(10:00):
I gave up on Christianity, and Ididn't worship anywhere after
that for several years.
John (10:06):
Well, obviously the very fact that we're sitting here
talking about this means thatsomething brought you back.
What was that, Owen?
Owen (10:15):
Well, you need to know that I had a research job at the
time in St.
Louis, Missouri.
And one day I read a Galluppoll.
And this Gallup poll told me why"Church Splits" happen.
It was a national poll ofChristians.
And here's what it found.
Listen to this (10:36):
It found that the average Christian is no more
spiritual than a non-Christian.
(Repeats.) And John, youremember, that I knew George
Gallop personally.
He's deceased now.
(10:56):
But one night in Washington, wehad dinner, and he told me about
this poll, and how it shockedand hurt him and his research
staff to even compile it and seethe results.
John (11:10):
You know, Owen, we've talked about this many, many
times.
But maybe we should explain thisin a little clearer terms.
Owen (11:22):
Well, as the old man said, that's where"the fur flies."
Because in actual practice, whatthis Gallup poll found was this:
The average Christian-- and Iknow many of our listeners are
above average-- but the averageChristian has the same rate of
divorce, the same rate of childabuse, the same rate of drug
(11:44):
abuse, the same rate ofpornography addiction, and even
the same rate of white and bluecollar crime, as a
non-Christian.
John (11:54):
Well, that's hard for me to get my mind around.
But you're actually saying thatthe average professing Christian
is living the"template"(thelifestyle) of a non-Christian.
Owen (12:06):
Yes.
You can look at the people onthe street, and you can see no
difference.
Sad, but true.
So put it this way, John (12:12):
The average Christian has exactly
the same daily lifestyle as anon-Christian.
John (12:22):
I'm afraid that I agree, Owen.
That has truly been myexperience now for about 36
years.
Owen (12:30):
Well, let's stop and summarize here for our friends
who are listening (12:34):
The reason that Christians have so many
divorces, so much drug abuse,and so many other problems, is
that they're living-- let's getthis now-- on the same Spiritual
level as non-Christians.
And, since non-Christians haveall those kinds of problems in
(12:57):
their lives, then so does theaverage Christian.
John (13:00):
Wow.
So, we talked about in ouropening about answers to
questions! So, what did you doafter getting that really
shocking information from theGallup poll?
Owen (13:14):
Well, I thought it, and suffered, for a long time.
In fact, for many months.
And I kept asking myself thisquestion.
It rolled in my mind, even atnight:"Why don't Christians live
better lives thannon-Christians?" I kept
thinking,"Why don't Christianshave fewer addictions, fewer
(13:35):
abuses, than non-Christians?"Well, eventually, this choice--
this decision, this issue--formed in my mind.
And here it is.
I told it to many people overlunch, and dinner, and in
conversations.
And here it is (13:52):
Either Christianity is the biggest HOAX
ever pulled on Christians.
Or, Christians today are doingsomething WRONG.
They're misunderstandingsomething.
Or misapplying something, aboutChristianity.
John (14:12):
Wow.
Owen, that is quite anobservation.
Can you repeat that again?
Owen (14:19):
Let's try it this way.
Here was my issue.
I realized that one of twothings had to be true.
Either Christianity is nonsense.
Or Twenty-First CenturyChristians are living the
Christian life incorrectly insome way that I didn't
(14:42):
understand.
John (14:43):
Ouch.
I'm sure I know.
But when the dust finallysettled, which of these two
options did you choose?
Owen (14:55):
Well, you might not believe it, but I struggled.
But finally, in religion-- andthis applies to our friends who
are listening-- in the field ofreligion, all of us eventually
have to make some hard choices.
And so, finally I sat up in mychair,and I made a hard choice.
(15:18):
I said to myself,"Christianityis not a HOAX.
Christianity is TRUE!" But, thatleft me with a big PROBLEM to
solve (15:29):
I had to find out what it is that Christians are doing
incorrectly today!
John (15:40):
So, that was when you started your"quest."
Owen (15:43):
Absolutely.
That's when I finally started mythree year, round-the-clock
study of Early Christianity.
My wife, Joanna, literallybrought me my meals on a tray
and, except for sleeping andeating, I studied and read and
worked on my computer, andworked on the internet, for
(16:05):
three straight years.
By the way, that story is in theIntroduction to the book,"Saving
Christianity." And that's thereason everything we're saying,
in fact, on this episode, is inthat book.
And that's why I'm hoping--we're hoping-- that every one of
our listeners will get a copy,either on the Amazon or the
(16:27):
Barnes and Noble website, sothey can follow along with these
points that we're making.
John (16:33):
Right.
Owen, I was privileged to kindof have an insider's view of all
that.
I was in college when you weredoing that.
But I can assure our friends,that it's(the book Saving
Christianity) one of the mostpractical and unusual books I've
ever read.
And anyone who reads it willreach that conclusion, I think.
(16:58):
But tell me, what did you hopeto find out in the quest?
Owen (17:04):
Well, let's put it this way, John.
I wanted to find out how the"inventors" of Christianity
lived.
I wanted to find out how the"founders" behaved.
Why?
Well, as the old joke goes,"Wheneverything else fails, read the
(17:25):
instructions!" And that's what Idid.
That's something we all learnedas young parents on Christmas
Eve! When you can't get it done,read the instructions!
John (17:35):
For sure! You know, that's an unusual viewpoint! You
rarely, if ever, look at itthrough that lens.
So let's talk about the researchthat you did.
Owen (17:47):
Well, first, over a period of three years, I read over 300
books on the Early Christians.
Many were rare or out-of-printbooks.
But I also traveled to Italy,and Greece, and Israel, and
Turkey, to study the EarlyChristian ruins, and symbols,
(18:07):
and paintings, and letters, andartifacts, that the original
Christians left behind.
John (18:14):
So, that's what brings us to actually calling this episode
"digging up the'Time Capsule'."
Owen (18:21):
Exactly.
That's why we're calling thisepisode that.
And by the way, we might as wellstop here and remind our friends
what a"time capsule" is.
John (18:34):
And we're actually using that term, Owen, as a symbol,
correct?
Owen (18:39):
Yes, let's use it today as a symbol.
But you know, there really are"time capsules." I guess most
people have never seen them.
So, let's tell our listenerswhat a" time capsule" in reality
is.
It's a box, or a place.
It can be a cave, or a grave,that contains coins, and
(19:00):
symbols, and letters, and art,and clothes, and personal items,
that one group of people buriesor leaves, so that another group
of people can dig it up later.
And here's why (19:12):
To find out how that first group lived.
John (19:17):
Right.
And such as the way people putthings in the cornerstones of
new buildings.
Or maybe like the tombs of theEgyptian pharaohs.
That sort of thing.
Owen (19:29):
Yeah, because stop and think about the famous King
Tut's tomb that was excavated.
We learned so much more aboutthe ancient Egyptian people that
nobody had known.
And we learned it from all thestuff that was buried at his
tomb.
So, except that in my case,Early Christian history was my
(19:54):
"time capsule." I dug up thelifestyle of the original
Christians by reading theirletters and studying their
symbology.
A lot of people don't know thatthey left many symbols.
They left art.
Even their graves containeditems.
(20:14):
And even some of the ruins oftheir ancient ho mes.
John, for example, later in anepisode, we'll talk about the
ruins of the apostle Peter'shome, which still stand to day i
n Capernaum, Is rael.
And I've studied those ruinscarefully.
I was trying to find out what itwas that made those Early
(20:36):
Christians unique.
John (20:38):
Well, since this is true, shouldn't we define the term
"Early Christian history," sincethat's the context from which
we're working?
Owen (20:52):
Good point! Okay, researchers define"Early
Christian history" as the first300 years of Christianity
(repeats), including, obviously,parts of the First, Second and
Third Centuries of worldhistory.
(21:13):
But-- and, John, this isimportant-- what we're calling
our"time capsule" is only a100-year-slice out of those
three centuries.
In fact, that slice goes fromthe Middle of the First Century,
to the Middle of the SecondCentury: 100 years.
John (21:36):
xxx Now, we're limiting our"time capsule" to a
100-year-slice, right?
Owen (21:45):
And here's why.
Hang on to your hat.
Because that was the lifespan ofthe very first Christian
families.
Stop and think about that.
What if we were investigatinghow airplanes were invented?
Wouldn't we be interested in thefamilies that worked on that and
knew all about it?
(22:08):
That would be the Wrightbrothers and their families.
Or what if we were studyingassembly lines how were they
invented?
Then we'd study the Ford familyand their immediate relatives.
And so, that's what we'relooking in that 100-year-slice
of ancient history.
It includes the lifespan of thevery first Christian families.
John (22:32):
Yeah.
And that's so unusual.
To be that specific.
I'm not sure we ever hearanything about first century
families.
But we're limiting that quest tothe families of the very first
(22:53):
Christians.
Owen (22:54):
And here's why.
A lot of people don't know this,John.
But the average lifespan of aperson in the First and Second
Centuries was 40 years.
Imagine that.
40 years! Then it was over.
So that means that with thesefirst families, we're talking
about the people who knew whyChristianity was invented in the
(23:18):
first place.
They lived it for 40 years.
Of course, Peter and Paul-- twoof the most famous early
Christians-- were unusual.
They lived to their sixties.
And the apostle John, who was ateenager when Jesus was walking
the earth, broke all records byliving to 92.
(23:38):
But most of them died young.
You know, Jesus died at 33, andmany of His apostles died young
too.
John (23:47):
But, Owen.
I have to ask this.
Why is that 40-year lifespan sosignificant?
Owen (23:57):
I can answer that in two words, John:"Accurate Evidence!"
My quest was to collect accurateevidence on these first families
-- and on what made them unique.
And all that happened, as I saidearlier, from the Middle of the
First Century to the Middle ofthe Second Century.
(24:18):
For example, the first accurateevidence...
and many people listeningcouldn't answer this...
the first accurate evidence everdiscovered about the early
Christians is in a letter datedin 45 AD.
So if we round that off, andjust say 50 AD, that's the
(24:41):
Middle of the First Century.
And let's assume that the personwho wrote that letter was about
20 at the time.
So, we add 20 years to him tomake a complete lifespan, and
that brings us to 70 AD.
But wait a minute.
All of the original Christiansalso had children.
(25:01):
We know, for example, that theapostle Peter traveled with his
wife and children.
So, we've got to add 40 yearsfor the children, too.
That brings us to one 110 AD.
But think about this.
All of the original Christiansalso had grandchildren.
And as you know, grandchildrenknow their grandparents, and
they hear all the family storiesat reunions.
And since the grandchildren knewall about the original Christian
(25:22):
lifestyle too, we need to add 40years for them.
That brings us to 150 AD.
That's the Middle of the SecondCentury.
And that's where accurateevidence about the original
Christians starts to fade out.
John (25:34):
Yeah, so that 40-year lifespan(of the Early
Christians) is very significant.
But also talk a little bit aboutwhy the Middle of the Second
Century is so important.
Owen (25:47):
Well, that's when we have the last accurate evidence about
the last generation of theoriginal Christian families.
That evidence is only availablein that 100-year-slice of
history that we're calling our"time capsule." After the Middle
of the Second Century, accurateinformation on them starts to
fade out of the history books.
John (26:09):
Okay, so our friends are probably wanting to know why
we're limiting our"time capsule"to the families of the first
Christians.
Owen (26:20):
Yeah, what's interesting is that you'd think(accurate
evidence) would come from thefamous writers or someone of
that period.
But here's why.
If you're doing good research,talk to an FBI agent, or talk to
a police detective.
You always want to collect yourevidence from as close to the
event in time as possible.
(26:41):
Also, you want use eye witnessesas much as possible.
So check this out.
I limited my quest to people whohad known Jesus-- because He's
the founder of Christianity--and to people who had known
people who had known Him
John (27:02):
So you limited your quest to three generations, right?
Because three generations arewhat we call an" immediate
family," right?
Owen (27:09):
Exactly.
Researchers call the parents,children, and grandchildren of
any family the"immediatefamily." And those are the ones
we wanted to study.
What made them different?
Why was it about theirrelationship with Jesus and the
Holy spirit that made them sodifferent?
(27:31):
And all that information startsto die out with the third
generation of the firstChristian families.
John (27:39):
So, the most accurate evidence in our"time capsule"
comes from the first threegenerations of the first
Christian families.
Owen (27:50):
Absolutely.
You nailed it.
So let's summarize quickly.
We don't want this to be tootechnical for our dear friends
who are listening.
Here's our summary (28:01):
Early Christian history is the
300-year-period of the First,Second, and Third centuries.
But the"time capsule" we'reexplaining in this episode is
only a 100-year-slice of thosecenturies that covers the first
three generations of the firstChristian families.
John (28:23):
Okay, let me make sure I understand this.
Research into Early Christianitycan really be based on the
principle of the 40-yearlifespan.
Owen (28:35):
I think so.
I think that was a twist I feltled to do.
And many researchers haveoverlooked that principle.
So you could also say it thisway: Early Christian history is
about 300 years.
So if you divide that by thenumber 40, you're looking at
about the first eightgenerations of the Early
(28:56):
Christians.
But we're limiting our"timecapsule" to only the first three
of those eight Christiangenerations.
John (29:04):
I got it.
We're just taking a slice ofthat history.
But let's ask another question.
Why did-- and I think this is soimportant-- why did Early
Christian history end after only300 years?
Owen (29:23):
That's the whole point.
That's where the worm turns.
Because that's the exact tragedythat we're producing this
podcast to discuss and toexplain to people.
Because Early Christian historydid end with the dawn of the
(29:46):
Fourth Century.
And the wonderful lifestyle ofpeace, healing, and hope that
those first Christian familiesenjoyed faded away at that time.
John (30:01):
Obviously, that didn't happen in a vacuum.
So why did it?
That's the question we'reasking.
Why did the Early Christianlifestyle fade away at the start
of the Fourth Century?
Owen (30:19):
That's amazing, isn't it! Really, I personally think that
our friends would agree withthat.
That's one of the most importantquestions in history.
Because the answer to thatquestion tells us why
Christianity is shrinking today,and why its influence on society
(30:43):
is fading away.
It's the purpose of this podcastis to answer those questions!
Why did Christianity die at thedawn of the Fourth Century?
And more than that, why don'tmore Christians today know the
(31:06):
answer to that question?
Well, the Good News is thatwe're going to explain all of
that, and answer all of thosequestions, fully and completely,
as we move along.
John (31:22):
Great! I'm looking forward to those answers! It's going to
be a life-changing experiencefor our friends.
But let's back up just a moment.
We've been talking a lot about"The Early Christian Lifestyle."
So what is that?
Owen (31:43):
That's a another great question.
And now we're moving into partsof the answer to our questions.
Because researchers say that a"lifestyle" is simply a type of
behavior.
It's simply a way of living.
It's a style of conduct that agroup of people have.
(32:03):
And listen, the reason that'simportant in our case and in
this podcast, is because whenyou see a person's lifestyle,
you're looking at that person'sSpiritual level.
John (32:19):
Okay.
So, is it a good thing to seepeople's lifestyles?
Owen (32:25):
Well, I think it is.
I think it's important to seepeople's lifestyles.
I mean, that's the whole messageof this episode.
Why?
Because the Early Christianswere the most Spiritual people
on earth.
And that's what Christians areintended to be-- at all times,
and in all places.
(32:47):
Let's repeat that.
A lot of people haven't thoughtthis through.
The Early Christian families, inthe time slot that we're talking
about, were the most Spiritualpeople on earth.
You can read about that.
We know the miracles thathappened to them, the angels
that appeared and guided them,and so forth.
(33:08):
We know these wonderful things.
But here's the point (33:10):
Christians at all times, and in all places,
and in all ages, are supposed tolive that same lifestyle!
John (33:21):
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment.
How do we know that?
Owen (33:26):
It's a matter of recorded history.
It's not an opinion.
It's not something that was justmade up.
Other people-- mind you, peoplewho were not Christians, people
who were what I callnon-Christians-- saw the
Spiritual behavior in thoseChristian families.
(33:48):
And they wrote about it.
And then those written reports,those ancient documents, came
down through history, andthey're in the museums today.
John (33:59):
Right! Let's talk about one example today.
Owen (34:04):
Okay.
One example.
Here's probably a good, quick,easy example.
It's an incident that happenedin Second Century Rome.
Here we are, again, in theMiddle of the Second Century.
There was a man named Natalis.
He was not a Christian.
And he was standing with a groupof friends who also were not
Christians.
(34:26):
And they were watching thebehavior of a group of the Early
Christians in the street.
Imagine this now.
I don't know if they were on abalcony, or where they were.
But they were watching some ofthe Early Christians in the
street.
And after they watched a fewminutes, Natalis turned to his
friends, and here's what hesaid.
(34:46):
And I quote:"Look at them! Theylove one another almost before
they know one another!"(Repeats.)
John (35:01):
I haven't heard anyone say that(about Christians) lately!
Owen (35:03):
Tell me about it! And by the way, that story is in the
Introduction of our book,"SavingChristianity."
John (35:11):
Well, Owen.
You know me well enough to knowthat I'm kind of a bottom line
guy.
So, I would say to that, what'sthe point of that story for us?
Owen (35:24):
Well, here's the point.
The story of Natalis proves whatwe've been saying about the
Early Christian lifestyle.
It proves the kind of behaviorthat the early had.
They had Spiritual behavior.
That's another word for"supernatural" behavior-- which
isn't a bad word, even thoughHollywood has stolen it for
(35:49):
Frankenstein movies.
What it means is somethingthat's beyond what's natural and
normal.
So it was supernatural behaviorthat Natalis saw.
Other people didn't have it.
It wasn't natural.
It was supernatural.
And that's the point ofChristianity.
Christians are people withsupernatural behavior.
John (36:12):
So, he saw their behavior.
He actually observed it.
And, obviously the conclusion isthat this was a lifestyle for
them.
And furthermore, that lifestylewas supernatural, right?
Owen (36:28):
Exactamente!("Exactly," in Spanish.) You know, if you asked
a typical Christian today,"Excuse me, do you have
supernatural behavior?" They'dfaint.
But, they should say,"PraiseGod, yes!" So as we said
earlier, if you see a person'slifestyle, you're looking at
(36:51):
that person's Spiritual level.
You're seeing how Spiritual thatperson's behavior is.
And that's what Natalis saw inRome.
He was amazed at how Spiritualtheir lifestyle was! Listen to
this (37:07):
What he saw on the street was not human love.
All people have that.
What he saw on the street wasSpiritual love.
And that's an importantdifference that our friends
really ought to think about.
John (37:22):
Right.
So actually, he saw in themsomething that he knew he didn't
have.
Right?
Owen (37:30):
Exactly.
And something that he wanted!
John (37:32):
And something that he wanted.
So, what about this?
So, we're saying that, in thiscontext, non-Christians don't
have Spiritual behavior.
Owen (37:47):
Well, that's a blunt statement.
But in truth and in fact, theydon't.
I mean, that's the principlethat our"time capsule" has
revealed here.
Non-Christians don't have it.
They don't have supernaturalbehavior.
They're not equipped for it.
They haven't received it,because they're not Christians.
(38:09):
And that's why originalChristianity, and I use that
word carefully-- ORIGINALChristianity-- was different
from the other religions of thatday.
Think about it.
There were about 400 otherreligions of that day.
But Christianity gave its peoplesupernatural love, joy, peace,
(38:33):
patience, hope.
And the other religions didn'tgive that to their members.
So why do you think Christianityspread worldwide in only 70
years?
In 70 years, it was in everycountry, in every city.
Why?
Because non-Christians saw thatsupernatural behavior, they
(38:55):
wanted it too.
So they became Christians to getit.
And Christianity spread by thatprocess.
John (39:02):
And, as the old saying goes,"The world was never the
same."
Owen (39:06):
And, it wasn't supposed to be!(Laughter.) That's the point.
To give people lives that arefilled with supernatural peace,
healing, and hope!
John (39:17):
And other religions don't offer their members that.
So that's a very, very importantpoint.
And the Great News is that it'sstill true today, isn't it.
Owen (39:31):
Okay.
John, you just put your fingeron the most important principle
in this episode.
The purpose of Christianity hasnever changed.
It's the same today as it wasduring the years of the"time
capsule" that we're digging up.
The purpose of Christianity isto give people lives that are
(39:54):
full of supernatural peace,healing, and hope, that no other
experience, religion, cult, orbelief on earth can give them.
John (40:05):
Yeah.
And obviously, part of thereason-- our motivation-- for
this podcast even, is that wewant everyone, all of our
friends, to be filled with thatsupernatural power, don't we?
Owen (40:22):
Absolutely! And I'm hoping as these episodes roll along,
that will actually happen.
But you know, John, I'm sorry tosay it, but I just looked at the
big clock on the wall, and it'stime to close Episode 01.
But you know, I'd like tosummarize everything that we've
(40:42):
said.
And I think maybe one good wayto do that is to read a few
sentences from the Introductionof the book,"Saving
Christianity."
John (40:53):
Great.
That's a good way for us toclose today, Owen.
So, what part of theIntroduction are you going to
read?
Owen (41:00):
Okay.
Let's read that part where I'mtalking about my three years of
research.
And let me quote thosesentences.
Now, here we go:
(41:08):
"During my research, it finally dawned on me that I had
grown up without knowinganything about how the original
Christians lived and behaved.
For example, I didn't know thatthey weren't originally called
'Christians.' I didn't know thatthey didn't have buildings
(41:32):
called'churches.' I didn't knowthat they didn't have preachers,
pulpits, or pews.
Or that they didn't have choirs,candles, or crosses.
Or that they didn't havebulletins, Bibles, or bazaars.
Or that they didn't have organs,offering plates, or orchestras.
In fact, I didn't realize theydidn't have much of anything
(41:52):
that we call'Christianity'today.
So what did they have?
They had incredibleSpirituality.
They were so incrediblySpiritual that they turned the
whole world upside downSpiritually in only 70 years.
Their lives were filled withhealings, peace, love, and
(42:13):
courage.
Their behavior was so differentfrom other people that
non-Christians thought they werea'new kind of humans' that had
somehow appeared on earth." Endof quote.
And John, that last sentence issomething that many Christians
have never heard.
(42:35):
The original Christians had suchSpiritual behavior that
non-Christians thought they werea'new race of people' that had
somehow appeared on earth.
John (42:45):
Wow.
Yeah, that is amazing.
And, I don't know manyChristians who know that.
Owen (42:50):
Nah, but you know, it's a critical fact.
And all of us need to thinkabout it.
All of us need to ask ourselveswhat that particular kind of
Christianity could-- and should-- mean to us personally.
And to our children.
And to our families.
And the Good News is, we'regoing to continue exploring that
(43:11):
idea even deeper in Episode 02.
John (43:15):
And that's why we're so excited about this.
And that's why we're asking allof you, all of our friends, to
tune in to Episode 02.
Owen (43:25):
Yeah.
Subscribe to this podcast!Because we've only scratched the
surface.
And remember, this is Episode01.
And a script and recording of itare on The Christian Family
Online in America website.
That same website doubles as mypersonal blog.
(43:46):
And if our listeners want toaccess the script and/or the
recording of Episode 01, here'sall they have to do.
Go to www.CFOpods.com.
C-F-O-P-O-D-S.com on theInternet.
And click in the index at thetop.
(44:08):
Or just scroll down to Episode01 on the list.
John (44:12):
And let me encourage you to subscribe to this podcast, so
you'll get notifications forEpisode 02, and the rest of the
upcoming episodes.
Owen (44:22):
Yeah.
Don't forget! Get a copy of thebook,"Saving Christianity," so
you can follow along with theselife-changing facts that we're
talking about-- either at AmazonBooks; Barnes and Noble Books;
Thrift Books, or any of theother quality book websites.
John (44:40):
All of us need a copy of this.
And you can pick one up.
I know my copy is necessary.
Owen (44:47):
And our friends need to know, John, that now Episode 02
is coming up.
It's going to be veryinteresting, because we're going
to talk about what the Christian"fish" symbol originally meant.
You know, John, that's thelittle symbol that you see on
people's car bumpers.
But here's the problem.
(45:08):
It did not originally mean whatpeople think it means today.
We're also going to talk aboutwhy Christians were not
originally called"Christians." Alot of people don't realize that
this was not the original namefor us.
A lot of people don't know whatChristians were originally
(45:29):
called.
And so, we're going to get intothat.
Why they were called what theywere called.
So there's a way you could saythat Episode 02 digs up even
more amazing facts from our"timecapsule." But now, this is Owen
Allen...
John (45:45):
And this is John Shields ...
(45:49):
...
saying (45:49):
May the God of our fathers bless you, and keep you,
and guide you, and protect you,until we meet again.
Owen and John (46:07):
Owen and John end the episode.
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