February 16, 2021 • 37 mins
A comparison of two Organizational Designs: One that promotes Spiritual growth, and one that suppresses it. The suppressive design is dominant today and came from Emperor Constantine. Thus, today's Christians have the "wrong ancestors." Their worship services came from Constantine – not Early Christianity. Happily, this episode gives the surprising solution.
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Episode Transcript
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John (00:00):
John Shields opens the episode by saying
friends! This is Episode 06 ofthe"Saving Christianity"
podcast, coming to you from theChristian Family Online in
(00:22):
America.
I'm John Shields, your host, anddelighted to be back with you
today.
And we're going to talk moretoday in this episode about the
crisis in today's Christianity,as it's described in the book,
Saving Christianity.
And we're interested in thesubject for only one reason: If
(00:45):
we know why this crisis ishappening, we'll know what to do
about it.
And that will give us morepeace, healing, and hope, and
our lives.
And I know that we all wantthat.
So, thank you for joining! Now,the name of this episode is,"The
Wrong Ancestors." Yeah, thewrong...
(01:07):
you may have already thought youhad some wrong ancestors.
B ut i n this episode, we'regoing to explain why so many of
today's Christians seem confusedand Spiritually weak.
So this should be an interestingepisode for us.
But before we start, let's pausefor a moment to introduce our...
(01:31):
my best friend...
the c o-host of this episode,Owen Allen.
Owen (01:36):
Welcome, John! And it's great...
it's good to be back...
a pleasure always to be here inthe studio.
To be talking to our friends,who are listening out there
somewhere in podcast land(chuckles).
I can visualize them sometimes,driving, or jogging, or riding
the subway, or doing hundreds ofother things.
(01:57):
And frankly, it's my prayer--and I pray this every day-- that
these episodes are giving themthe answers to some questions
about Christianity that they'vewondered about all of their
lives.
John (02:12):
Yeah, that's my prayer, too.
And I hope that our friends areenjoying hearing these episodes
as much as we are enjoyingrecording them!
Owen (02:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, and one other thing.
I want our friends to know thatthese episodes are not just an
intellectual exercise for us.
They need to know that thethings we're talking about are
very, very real.
And there are Christians who areliving what we're calling the
(02:45):
"Early Christian Lifestyle"every day.
And quite frankly, we want ourfriends to start living it too.
John (02:54):
That's true.
And it's incredibly importantfor our friends to know the
truth about the Early ChristianLifestyle.
And not just to know it, but toexperience its incredible peace,
healing, and hope, forthemselves.
Owen (03:11):
Yeah(sighs), and you know, John, absolutely.
To be"deathbed honest," as I say...
I couldn't live a day withoutthe peace and the comfort that
what we're calling the EarlyChristian Lifestyle gives me;
gives my wife, Joanna; and ourother dear friends.
And I don't think that ourfriends who are subscribers to
(03:34):
this podcast should live a daywithout it, either.
I really, really don't see howpeople can survive today's
pressures.
The pressures of everyday life,without what we're calling this
"peace that passes allunderstanding." And this healing
(03:54):
that humans can't do.
And this hope that nothing elsecan give us.
John (03:59):
Yeah, I concur, Owen.
From my own personal life and myfamily.
My only hope is that thatthrough this...
the internet...
the web...
this podcast...
that we can communicate the fullpower of what living with the
(04:20):
"Deeper Christian Walk" reallymeans.
Owen (04:23):
Yeah, me too.
Because it's hard to do thisjust verbally, I guess.
But let's try.
So John, let's go ahead and pickup this thread that we've been
following in Episodes 04 and 05.
And now we're into Episode 06.
Let's look at more of what Icall"the hidden history." And it
(04:45):
has been hidden-- eitheraccidentally or on purpose.
And I've had to dig it out.
And that's what we're doinghere.
But this"hidden history" of theunique, and exclusive, and
amazing, lifestyle that we'recalling the Early Christian
Lifestyle.
And as always, if our friendswould like to review Episodes 04
(05:08):
and 05, they can do that on theInternet at www.CFOpods.com.
C-F-O-P-O-D-S.com.
But, I'm thinking, J ohn, t hatmaybe the best way to break the
ice here in Episode 06 is toread a few sentences from
(05:29):
Chapter 5 of the book, SavingChristianity.
Because we want to set thetable, or set the stage, for a
comparison-- a comparison-- thatwe want to make here in this
episode.
John (05:43):
Yeah, that's a good idea, a good place to start, Owen.
This two-part comparison isreally important.
Owen (05:51):
It is! And so, let's give our friends Part One of the
comparison.
And here I'm quoting from thebook:"The Early Christians lived
a lifestyle that was free,informal, and loving.
They emphasized personal growth,freedom of expression, freedom
(06:13):
of movement, freedom to enjoySpiritual experiences.
They called themselves,Followers of The Way.
And they lived with healings,peace, patience, courage,
miracles, and angelic guidance.
And they worshiped in smallgroups in private homes, without
(06:33):
-- without!-- a hierarchy ofhumans to micro-manage them.
And they were so Spiritual, thateven when they were persecuted,
they walked to the lion pitsholding hands and singing."
John (06:52):
Whoa, that paints a picture all of us need to think
about! I know I do, for sure.
I just wonder how manyChristians today-- I'll throw
myself in-- could walk to thelion pits holding hands and
singing?
Owen (07:07):
Sometimes I wonder that too, John.
But the lesson behind thesewords is that, during the first
300 years of Christian history,the Early Christians lived a
very different way from how manyChristians live today!
John (07:25):
Yeah, for sure! We said back in Episodes 02 and 03, that
what we see happening in atypical"church building" on a
typical"Sunday" today, is notwhat the Early Christians saw
happening on the day that theycalled The Lord's day.
Owen (07:44):
That's right, John.
Isn't that interesting?
You never hear that phrasetoday: The Lord's Day.
But that's what Christians aresupposed to be calling the first
day of the week.
Well, John, that's a historicalfact.
And so...
but now let's look at Part Twoof our little comparison.
Exactly what does happen in atypical-- quote--"church
(08:05):
building" on a typical-- quote--"Sun Day"?
John (08:10):
Yeah, you know, Owen, I remember when we were young--
you remember!-- The teacher usedto say, or our parents used to
say:"Okay, put on your listeningears!"(Laughter.) And I think we
need those on right now!
Owen (08:21):
Absolutely! Well, so, let's go ahead then and read
some more lines from Chapter 5of the book.
And I quote:"Today's Christiansworship in buildings designed
like Roman courthouses that theycall"churches"-- a word that
Early Christians never heard.
(08:43):
Today's Christians are dividedinto a"clergy" and a"laity"--
more words that the EarlyChristians never heard.
They call the first of the week"Sun Day"-- another word, or
term, that the Early Christiansnever heard.
(09:03):
They worship with rigid agendas.
And they're micro-managed bytheir"clergy." They're
program-oriented...
program-oriented.
So that they have bingo games,and bazaars, and bus trips,
sports teams, scout troops,preschools, musical concerts,
(09:26):
choir rehearsals, dramaticpresentations, and fall pumpkin
sales, to name just a few oftheir many, many programs." But
-- the Early Christians neverheard of any of these.
Never thought about any ofthese.
(09:47):
And would never have engaged inany of them, if they had thought
of them or had heard of them!
John (09:54):
This is starting to make a rather disturbing two-part
comparison.
Owen (10:00):
Well(chuckles), it is! But -- listen-- these two
descriptions are true.
I don't think any of our friendslistening out there in podcast
land would say that thesedescriptions are not accurate.
They are! As much as they hurt.
(10:20):
So...
and they do hurt sometimes...
but let's compare now the twodescriptions to one another.
And see what this two-partcomparison reveals.
John (10:32):
Right.
And you know, we decidedearly-on, that we were going to
go just full bore-- wherever thetruth led us.
And so this is where the rubbermeets the road.
Owen (10:43):
It is! So the first description showed us how the
Early Christians lived.
And the second one shows howfrankly, a great many Christians
-- maybe you could say mostChristians-- are living today.
So, if, now let's compare thesetwo lifestyles.
And what we're looking for isthe degree to which the two
(11:06):
lifestyles match one another.
John (11:09):
Yeah, I know that our listeners are...
along with us...
are being able to see two verydifferent Christian Structures,
or Christian OrganizationalDesigns!
Owen (11:22):
Yeah, precisely! But, that's why we're making this
comparison.
It's forcing us to see thatthere are two-- not one, but two
-- very different ChristianOrganizational Designs that have
come down to us through history...
through Christian history.
And frankly, the two designsdon't match very closely.
(11:47):
In fact, let's just spell outhow they're mismatched.
First, think about it (11:51):
The Early Christian Design was free and
informal.
But Today's Design is rigid andformal.
The Early Christian Designemphasized individual growth,
and personal freedom.
But, Today's Christian Designemphasizes loyalty to programs,
(12:14):
and conformance todenominational teachings.
Third, the Early ChristianDesign was"Following The Way."
In other words, followingSpiritual behavior.
But Today's Design is"membership" in one of the
hundreds of ChristianDenominations.
(12:38):
Let's look at two more(comparisons): The Early
Christian Design emphasizedpersonal behavior.
But Today's Design emphasizeswatching pre- planned programs.
And finally, number five, theEarly Christian Design
emphasized personal guidance bythe Holy Spirit...
(13:02):
personal guidance by the HolySpirit.
Just this morning, John, my wifehad a beautiful, a beautiful,
personal guidance from the HolySpirit.
So we should be living this wayhour-by-hour.
Anyway, but Today's ChristianDesign emphasizes-- dare we say
(13:23):
it-- human guidance, throughsermons, music, and classes.
Now, we could keep going.
But let's stop here, and askourselves: What conclusion
(chuckles) can we draw from thiscomparison?
John (13:39):
(Sighs), well, as I said earlier, it's obvious, as we are
talking about this, that we'retalking about two very different
Organizational Structures, orOrganizational Designs!
Owen (13:53):
Yeah, they are! And let's just tell our friends how
they're different!
John (13:58):
Okay! Well the Early Christian Design, we know, was
free, informal, and most of all,Spiritual with a capital"s." But
Today's Design is rigid, formal,and conforms to rehearsed
(14:19):
programs.
So, quite a difference!
Owen (14:22):
Well, yeah.
That's a good summary too! Butthink about this big question:
Which of those two designs wouldgive us the best chance at being
Spiritual?
John (14:34):
Yeah, well of course, the Early Christians taught that
that God is a Spirit.
You know, Jesus said(hallelujah!) that He must be
worshiped in the Spirit.
Now, that makes sense.
So Christians must be-- we mustbe-- free to worship Him in a
supernatural way.
(14:55):
And the design for that...
that does the best...
puts us with the possibility ofthat...
is in a free and informal design-- like the Early Christians!
Owen (15:11):
Exactly! Exactamente! (Spanish, for"exactly!") So,
look at that! This isinteresting, now.
Let's have our listeners tightentheir seat belts.
We've arrived at an extremelyimportant Organizational Law.
And it's going to give us afresh view of how the Early
(15:31):
Christians met and worshiped.
You know, John, in the field ofOrganizational Behavior-- that's
called"OB" for short(and that)happens to be my field-- we
teach a law of OrganizationalDesign that everybody really
ought to know, and ought tothink about.
And it could be stated in threelittle words.
(15:54):
I don't know if any of ourlisteners are old enough to
remember the old song,"ThreeLittle Words." But here they
are.
Design Follows Purpose.
(Repeats.) Now, don't let thesethree little words scare you.
Here's what they mean in simplelanguage: The"design" of an
(16:15):
organization...
that means its shape, or itspattern, or the arrangement of
its parts...
reveals its purpose.
The design of an organizationreveals its purpose.
John (16:30):
This is very(laughs)-- Owen!-- this is very important!
So, most people are like me: Give us an example of what that (16:33):
undefined
really means.
Owen (16:40):
Well, let's think.
I'll tell you.
Let's read the law in reverse: The purpose of a thing dictates (16:43):
undefined
the design that it should have.
(Repeats.) For example, askyourself this: Why is a
limousine different from a racecar?
(17:04):
And why is a race car differentfrom a Jeep?
I used to own a Jeep, so I knowabout that.
And the answer is, becausethey're designed for different
purposes.
A limo's purpose is to carry aload of teenagers to the prom.
A race car's purpose is to winraces.
(17:26):
And a Jeep's purpose is to crashand bash through the woods.
So, design follows purpose!
John (17:33):
Okay, that's better.
That's a little more clear.
But actually, how-- here's thequestion-- how does that law
apply?
(How do) we lay that template tothe design of Christian groups?
Owen (17:50):
All right, let's do! Let's apply the law of"Design Follows
Purpose" to the two Christianorganizations we just talked
about.
Here we go with the first one: The Early Christian Design, we (17:57):
undefined
said, was free and informal.
It met in small groups inprivate, quiet homes.
There was no pre- plannedagenda.
The Holy Spirit guided theirmeetings.
And so-- if we apply the law of"Design Follows Purpose" to that
(18:20):
-- what would we guess thepurpose of their design was?
John (18:25):
Well, I think it's obvious.
Their design reveals that theirpurpose was to be Spiritual.
(Amen!) And their purpose was toworship God supernaturally, and
to let supernatural thingshappen.
Owen (18:42):
Absolutely.
Their design was following theirpurpose.
Well, let's look at our secondpiece of our comparison.
Today's Christian Design isrigid and formal.
Christians meet in large groups,in large buildings.
They have printed agendas.
And they watch a pre- plannedprogram, being presented by
(19:05):
professional musicians andleaders who have rehearsed and
prepared for that day.
So-- if we apply the law of"Design Follows Purpose"-- what
could we guess the purpose oftheir design is?
John (19:23):
Well, it's obvious again.
But I also think it's morecomplicated.
I think that Today's Design ispartially to entertain the group
-- dare I say-- partially toeducate the group.
And partially to maintain orderin the group.
Owen (19:41):
Yeah, it is.
It is complicated, John.
And all those purposes arecorrect.
But, this is interesting.
Let me stick in sideways.
Have you ever thought whytoday's Christians, in most
settings, are ranked in pews?
Lined up in ranks of pews, allthe way through the room...
(20:06):
the sanctuary...
whatever their denominationcalls it.
People have studied that, andthat's a symbol of military
ranks.
So, the people are lined as(if)to obey-- see-- their leader.
But, did you notice John, thatthere's one purpose that didn't
come to mind?
(20:26):
It didn't spring to mind, as welisted the purposes of Today's
Design?
John (20:33):
Yeah, and allow me just a little bit of a joke that I
heard one time.
Where a gentlemen in a-- quotes--"church" building, expressed
his agreement and optimism tosomething that was said, out
loud! And he was told to stopit.
(20:55):
And he said,"Well, I can't, Igot religion." And the people,
the powers to be, said,"Well,you didn't get it here!"
(Laughter.) And that's thetragedy we're talking about.
We don't usually think oftoday's Christian design, as
actually being for the purposeof Spiritual happenings.
(21:17):
We don't think of it being forsupernatural experience.
Owen (21:22):
Yeah.
The sad news is, if somebody hadone-- he got dragged out.
I've seen that done.
(Chuckles.) So that's right,John.
I mean, trying to be positivehere: If we openly and honestly
apply the law, that"DesignFollows Purpose," to Today's
Christian Design, that's theonly conclusion we can reach.
(21:46):
It's not really designed forSpiritual purposes.
It's designed for conformance toa rehearsed and pre- planned
program.
And John, let me hasten to say,that's not our fault.
See, I was raised that way.
I said in another episode, thatI've been a Christian since I
(22:09):
was 11.
I was raised in this format, ifyou want to call it(that)...
this template, if you want tocall it(that).
And everybody I know was.
So who are we blaming?
We're blaming Constantine.
So we're not here to trash ourfriends.
Or to trash today'sdenominations.
(22:30):
We're here to trash Constantine.
John (22:33):
Yeah, and Owen, I was thinking that,"You don't know
what you don't know."(Laughter.)And I was also thinking-- and
maybe it's important on somelevel to our listeners-- that
I'm actually a minister.
And so, I'm in this.
And yet, being in it, so we'renot trying to throw people under
(22:56):
the bus.
We're...
our goal is to understand theproblem, to find the solution,
and just see Spiritual growthhappening in people's lives.
Owen (23:08):
Absolutely.
That's what we want.
That's what you and I want.
That's what Shannon(theproducer) wants.
That's what we all want.
Well, l ook, let's tie down alittle bit.
This gets more interesting, andsee this a little more clearly.
In the field of OrganizationalBehavior-- or"OB" as we called
it-- there's another rule.
And this rule comes under theumbrella of"Design Follows
(23:31):
Purpose." But now, let's applythat rule to what we're saying
about Today's Design.
And here's that role.
Think about this (23:39):
Organizations that are designed for group
purposes, a re not efficient formeeting the needs of
individuals.
(Wow!) Think about this, now.
John (23:53):
That's quite a statement!
Owen (23:54):
Let's read it again, or say it again, for our friends:
Organizations that are designedfor group purposes, are not
efficient for meeting the needsof individuals.
Now, a good example would be thearmy.
The army is designed for agroup.
But that makes it inefficient,very many times, for meeting the
(24:18):
needs of individual soldiers.
Anybody(chuckles) that's everbeen in the military knows that
things are constantly gettinglost, and forgotten, and done
incorrectly, for the individualsoldiers.
But as a group, the army worksfairly well.
So, an organizational designthat'll work for a group, often
(24:41):
won't work all that well for anindividual.
John (24:44):
Yeah, that's so interesting! A friend of mine
just told me the other day-- hisson is in basic training-- and
he got to talk to him for a fewminutes.
And he was very frustrated,because he was having to do
pushups because the othersweren't taking it seriously! So
that just proves that pointagain, doesn't it?
But it also, it tells us that'swhy the early Christians had an
(25:08):
Organizational Design of meetinginformally, in small groups, in
private homes.
Because the purpose of theirdesign was to benefit individual
Christians.
Owen (25:25):
And that's exactly the point! You know, this is
something we said in a previousepisode.
But let's say it again.
And I think we even said itearlier, here.
It was the Holy Spirit who gavethe Early Christians the design
that they used.
Have we ever thought about that?
(25:48):
I mean, He could have given themtemples.
He could have created a templefor them.
But he didn't.
And you know, we're going todiscuss this more in upcoming
episodes-- but just to say, theHoly Spirit knew that Spiritual
growth only happens to people asindividuals.
(26:09):
It doesn't happen to people as agroup.
Have you ever thought aboutthat!
John (26:14):
Yeah, this is devastating.
Because today's Christianity, aswe know too well, is based on
the wrong Organizational Design.
Owen (26:25):
Wrong for many reasons, in many ways.
But at least, look now we'vefulfilled the promise that we
made at the top of the show.
We promised our friends that inthis episode, we would explain
why many Christians today seemconfused and weak.
And now we know why! It'sbecause they're meeting in the
(26:46):
wrong Organizational Design.
John (26:49):
Yeah, that's right.
And the question our friends areprobably asking now is: Where
did today's wrong design comefrom?
Who's responsible! But, wealready know the answer to that,
don't we.
Owen (27:01):
We do! See, we already know the answer.
We've discussed it fully inEpisodes 04 and 05.
But, just for somebody that mayhave missed it, the answer is
that (27:11):
The Roman emperor Constantine, when he founded
Institutional Christianity inthe Fourth Century-- then
today's Christian denominationsare the direct descendants of
Constantine's Fourth Centuryinstitution.
John (27:30):
That's why we titled this episode,"The Wrong Ancestors."
We're saying that today'sChristians are using an
Organizational Design that camefrom the wrong Christian
"ancestors."
Owen (27:48):
Exactly.
Exactly.
See, most Christians don't knowthat they have two ancestors to
choose from.
Like you said earlier, John,most of us can't choose our
ancestors.
But Christians can! And they...
but they don't know(it).
They've never been told thatthere is a second Organizational
(28:09):
Design from which they canchoose.
And of course, naturally that'swhy we're publishing these
episodes.
We want Christians to know theyhave a second option.
One that can give them Spiritualgrowth...
listen to this...
the same way it gave Spiritualgrowth to the original
(28:32):
Christians.
John (28:32):
And that is definitely why we are recording these episodes.
We want today's Christians tohave the same supernatural
peace, healings, hope, that theearly Christians had.
Owen (28:50):
Absolutely.
And let's remember, John.
The Early Christians were themost Spiritual people on earth
at that time-- before they weresuppressed.
Remember, we said in an earlierepisode that non-Christians
thought a"new race of humans"had appeared on earth because
(29:10):
the Early Christians were sodifferent.
So you know, John, we pray everyday that all of our listeners...
that all Christians everywhere...
will move into what we'recalling"The Deeper Walk." But
you know what?
I'm starting to resent this bigclock on the wall, John.
Because I see it's almost timeto close Episode 06.
(29:33):
But why don't we...
I'd like to close a differentway this time.
You know, our friends may notrealize it.
But at this point in thepodcast, we have now discussed
the first five chapters of thebook, Saving Christianity.
(29:54):
Now, we've just skimmed overthem.
But we have skimmed over fivechapters.
And in the book, if you look atthe Table of Contents, those
chapters are called Part One.
And that part has the title:"TheSource of the Trouble."
(Repeats.) So what we're sayingis, that Part One of the book is
(30:18):
all about the crisis, and what'scausing the crisis.
And that's what we've talkedabout now for several weeks.
So, next we need to starttalking about the Corrective
Action.
As individuals out there inpodcast land, what can we do
(30:39):
about this crisis?
John (30:40):
Yes-- what can we do about it as private individuals?
Owen (30:45):
Yeah, because we probably feel isolated and lonely.
You know, sometimes I do! Imean, it's a life-changing
question.
But now, look at Part Two of thebook.
Here's its title:"The EarlyChristian Basics."(Repeats.)
(31:06):
That's what we're moving into,starting with the next episode.
O ur friends, will remember that"Getting Back to the Christian
Basics" is one of the themes ofthis podcast, of these episodes,
as I've said it many times.
But here we go again""If we dowhat they did, we will have what
(31:26):
they had." A nd John, we wantwhat they had.
We want that supernatural peace,and healing, and hope, for
ourselves, our families, ourfriends...
and the Early Christians had it...
we can have it too.
John (31:42):
Yes, we absolutely do! But, we can't live successful
lives on this earth without it.
Owen (31:49):
That's what I've found.
And I've been around the trackseveral times.
(Chuckles.) So, starting nexttime, with Episode 07, we're
going to dive deep into thetechniques of"The Deeper
Christian Walk." And I'm prettysure there's a lot we're going
to say that will be completelynew to our friends who are
(32:12):
listening.
John (32:13):
I'm sure in that, too.
Owen (32:15):
So John, to close the episode, let's give our friend
some perspective.
Let's summarize the first sixepisodes of this podcast.
You know, those are the onesthat all-- I guess all of them--
that we've recorded to date: Episodes 01 through 06. (32:30):
undefined
And let's see can we summarizethem this way?
Here we go (32:39):
Christians were originally called Followers of
The Way.
And they lived a supernaturalbehavior that we call the Early
Christian Lifestyle.
What was that?
They met in small groups inhomes.
They sang, worshiped, prayed, asthe Holy Spirit guided them.
(32:59):
And because of that, healings,answers to prayer, angels, and
other miracles, were part oftheir daily lives.
And over the years, theFollowers of The Way evolved
into today's denominationalChristians.
And tragically, today'sdenominational Christians are in
(33:24):
crisis.
Millions of them are droppingout of the denominations, and
polls show that today's averageChristian is no more Spiritual
than a non-Christian.
The cause of the crisis, is thattoday's congregations don't
(33:45):
teach the Early ChristianLifestyle of Spiritual living
that the original Christianstaught.
And because of that, today'sworship services-- you said this
earlier, John-- are boring,irrelevant, and hypocritical.
(34:05):
But in turn, that's causingChristians to drop out and
become increasingly unspiritual.
The reason that the EarlyChristian Lifestyle is not
taught in today's congregationsis that they are descended from
(34:27):
the Emperor Constantine'sInstitutional Christianity of
the Fourth Century.
Remember, he built the first"church" buildings.
He named the day that we call"Sun Day." He founded the
"clergy." He even designed the"cross" as the Christian symbol.
(34:47):
But remember, Constantine wasnot a Christian.
And the changes he made toChristianity were done for
political and military reasons--not Spiritual reasons.
And that's why his changes arethe root cause of today's
crisis.
(35:09):
So, the solution to this crisis,is for Christians to"Get Back to
the Basics of EarlyChristianity." As we always say,
"If we do what they did, we willhave what they had." So, the
goal of these episodes is tohelp today's Christians return
(35:32):
to the same peace, healing, andhope that the Early Christians
enjoyed.
So, now it's time to talk aboutThe Deeper Christian Walk.
It's time to talk in clearlanguage about how to live the
way the Early Christians lived.
And so that's going to be thetheme of our upcoming episodes,
(35:55):
starting with Episode 07.
John (35:59):
Owen, that is a terrific summary of where we've been.
And it's a good summary of wherewe're going.
And I might throw in, the bestis yet to come, isn't it?
Owen (36:08):
Yeah, you know, and that's the way it is with Christian
life (36:12):
The best is always yet to come.
John (36:16):
Yeah, that's true.
And I can see that Episode 07 isgoing to be a turning point in
these episodes, and we're goingto get to the deep end of the
pool.
The deep Spiritual issues arecoming up now.
Owen (36:31):
Yes, they are! I can't wait.
But in the meantime, friendsremember that this is Episode 06
in the series.
A script and recording of it areon the Christian family Online
website.
And all you have to do to findthat is go on the internet to:
www.CFOpods.com.
(36:52):
C-F-O-P-O-D-S.com.
John (36:56):
Yeah, and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, so we
can get the notifications to youfor Episode number 07, and the
rest of the episodes.
Owen (37:07):
Absolutely.
But for now, for today, this isOwen Allen...
John (37:12):
...
and John Shields, and along withour producer, Shannon Wolf...
Owen (37:17):
....
saying (37:17):
May the God of our fathers bless you, and keep you,
and guide you, and protect you,until we meet again.
Owen and John (37:37):
Owen and John end the episode.
John Shields opens the episode by saying
friends! This is Episode 06 ofthe"Saving Christianity"
podcast, coming to you from theChristian Family Online in
(00:22):
America.
I'm John Shields, your host, anddelighted to be back with you
today.
And we're going to talk moretoday in this episode about the
crisis in today's Christianity,as it's described in the book,
Saving Christianity.
And we're interested in thesubject for only one reason: If
(00:45):
we know why this crisis ishappening, we'll know what to do
about it.
And that will give us morepeace, healing, and hope, and
our lives.
And I know that we all wantthat.
So, thank you for joining! Now,the name of this episode is,"The
Wrong Ancestors." Yeah, thewrong...
(01:07):
you may have already thought youhad some wrong ancestors.
B ut i n this episode, we'regoing to explain why so many of
today's Christians seem confusedand Spiritually weak.
So this should be an interestingepisode for us.
But before we start, let's pausefor a moment to introduce our...
(01:31):
my best friend...
the c o-host of this episode,Owen Allen.
Owen (01:36):
Welcome, John! And it's great...
it's good to be back...
a pleasure always to be here inthe studio.
To be talking to our friends,who are listening out there
somewhere in podcast land(chuckles).
I can visualize them sometimes,driving, or jogging, or riding
the subway, or doing hundreds ofother things.
(01:57):
And frankly, it's my prayer--and I pray this every day-- that
these episodes are giving themthe answers to some questions
about Christianity that they'vewondered about all of their
lives.
John (02:12):
Yeah, that's my prayer, too.
And I hope that our friends areenjoying hearing these episodes
as much as we are enjoyingrecording them!
Owen (02:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, and one other thing.
I want our friends to know thatthese episodes are not just an
intellectual exercise for us.
They need to know that thethings we're talking about are
very, very real.
And there are Christians who areliving what we're calling the
(02:45):
"Early Christian Lifestyle"every day.
And quite frankly, we want ourfriends to start living it too.
John (02:54):
That's true.
And it's incredibly importantfor our friends to know the
truth about the Early ChristianLifestyle.
And not just to know it, but toexperience its incredible peace,
healing, and hope, forthemselves.
Owen (03:11):
Yeah(sighs), and you know, John, absolutely.
To be"deathbed honest," as I say...
I couldn't live a day withoutthe peace and the comfort that
what we're calling the EarlyChristian Lifestyle gives me;
gives my wife, Joanna; and ourother dear friends.
And I don't think that ourfriends who are subscribers to
(03:34):
this podcast should live a daywithout it, either.
I really, really don't see howpeople can survive today's
pressures.
The pressures of everyday life,without what we're calling this
"peace that passes allunderstanding." And this healing
(03:54):
that humans can't do.
And this hope that nothing elsecan give us.
John (03:59):
Yeah, I concur, Owen.
From my own personal life and myfamily.
My only hope is that thatthrough this...
the internet...
the web...
this podcast...
that we can communicate the fullpower of what living with the
(04:20):
"Deeper Christian Walk" reallymeans.
Owen (04:23):
Yeah, me too.
Because it's hard to do thisjust verbally, I guess.
But let's try.
So John, let's go ahead and pickup this thread that we've been
following in Episodes 04 and 05.
And now we're into Episode 06.
Let's look at more of what Icall"the hidden history." And it
(04:45):
has been hidden-- eitheraccidentally or on purpose.
And I've had to dig it out.
And that's what we're doinghere.
But this"hidden history" of theunique, and exclusive, and
amazing, lifestyle that we'recalling the Early Christian
Lifestyle.
And as always, if our friendswould like to review Episodes 04
(05:08):
and 05, they can do that on theInternet at www.CFOpods.com.
C-F-O-P-O-D-S.com.
But, I'm thinking, J ohn, t hatmaybe the best way to break the
ice here in Episode 06 is toread a few sentences from
(05:29):
Chapter 5 of the book, SavingChristianity.
Because we want to set thetable, or set the stage, for a
comparison-- a comparison-- thatwe want to make here in this
episode.
John (05:43):
Yeah, that's a good idea, a good place to start, Owen.
This two-part comparison isreally important.
Owen (05:51):
It is! And so, let's give our friends Part One of the
comparison.
And here I'm quoting from thebook:"The Early Christians lived
a lifestyle that was free,informal, and loving.
They emphasized personal growth,freedom of expression, freedom
(06:13):
of movement, freedom to enjoySpiritual experiences.
They called themselves,Followers of The Way.
And they lived with healings,peace, patience, courage,
miracles, and angelic guidance.
And they worshiped in smallgroups in private homes, without
(06:33):
-- without!-- a hierarchy ofhumans to micro-manage them.
And they were so Spiritual, thateven when they were persecuted,
they walked to the lion pitsholding hands and singing."
John (06:52):
Whoa, that paints a picture all of us need to think
about! I know I do, for sure.
I just wonder how manyChristians today-- I'll throw
myself in-- could walk to thelion pits holding hands and
singing?
Owen (07:07):
Sometimes I wonder that too, John.
But the lesson behind thesewords is that, during the first
300 years of Christian history,the Early Christians lived a
very different way from how manyChristians live today!
John (07:25):
Yeah, for sure! We said back in Episodes 02 and 03, that
what we see happening in atypical"church building" on a
typical"Sunday" today, is notwhat the Early Christians saw
happening on the day that theycalled The Lord's day.
Owen (07:44):
That's right, John.
Isn't that interesting?
You never hear that phrasetoday: The Lord's Day.
But that's what Christians aresupposed to be calling the first
day of the week.
Well, John, that's a historicalfact.
And so...
but now let's look at Part Twoof our little comparison.
Exactly what does happen in atypical-- quote--"church
(08:05):
building" on a typical-- quote--"Sun Day"?
John (08:10):
Yeah, you know, Owen, I remember when we were young--
you remember!-- The teacher usedto say, or our parents used to
say:"Okay, put on your listeningears!"(Laughter.) And I think we
need those on right now!
Owen (08:21):
Absolutely! Well, so, let's go ahead then and read
some more lines from Chapter 5of the book.
And I quote:"Today's Christiansworship in buildings designed
like Roman courthouses that theycall"churches"-- a word that
Early Christians never heard.
(08:43):
Today's Christians are dividedinto a"clergy" and a"laity"--
more words that the EarlyChristians never heard.
They call the first of the week"Sun Day"-- another word, or
term, that the Early Christiansnever heard.
(09:03):
They worship with rigid agendas.
And they're micro-managed bytheir"clergy." They're
program-oriented...
program-oriented.
So that they have bingo games,and bazaars, and bus trips,
sports teams, scout troops,preschools, musical concerts,
(09:26):
choir rehearsals, dramaticpresentations, and fall pumpkin
sales, to name just a few oftheir many, many programs." But
-- the Early Christians neverheard of any of these.
Never thought about any ofthese.
(09:47):
And would never have engaged inany of them, if they had thought
of them or had heard of them!
John (09:54):
This is starting to make a rather disturbing two-part
comparison.
Owen (10:00):
Well(chuckles), it is! But -- listen-- these two
descriptions are true.
I don't think any of our friendslistening out there in podcast
land would say that thesedescriptions are not accurate.
They are! As much as they hurt.
(10:20):
So...
and they do hurt sometimes...
but let's compare now the twodescriptions to one another.
And see what this two-partcomparison reveals.
John (10:32):
Right.
And you know, we decidedearly-on, that we were going to
go just full bore-- wherever thetruth led us.
And so this is where the rubbermeets the road.
Owen (10:43):
It is! So the first description showed us how the
Early Christians lived.
And the second one shows howfrankly, a great many Christians
-- maybe you could say mostChristians-- are living today.
So, if, now let's compare thesetwo lifestyles.
And what we're looking for isthe degree to which the two
(11:06):
lifestyles match one another.
John (11:09):
Yeah, I know that our listeners are...
along with us...
are being able to see two verydifferent Christian Structures,
or Christian OrganizationalDesigns!
Owen (11:22):
Yeah, precisely! But, that's why we're making this
comparison.
It's forcing us to see thatthere are two-- not one, but two
-- very different ChristianOrganizational Designs that have
come down to us through history...
through Christian history.
And frankly, the two designsdon't match very closely.
(11:47):
In fact, let's just spell outhow they're mismatched.
First, think about it (11:51):
The Early Christian Design was free and
informal.
But Today's Design is rigid andformal.
The Early Christian Designemphasized individual growth,
and personal freedom.
But, Today's Christian Designemphasizes loyalty to programs,
(12:14):
and conformance todenominational teachings.
Third, the Early ChristianDesign was"Following The Way."
In other words, followingSpiritual behavior.
But Today's Design is"membership" in one of the
hundreds of ChristianDenominations.
(12:38):
Let's look at two more(comparisons): The Early
Christian Design emphasizedpersonal behavior.
But Today's Design emphasizeswatching pre- planned programs.
And finally, number five, theEarly Christian Design
emphasized personal guidance bythe Holy Spirit...
(13:02):
personal guidance by the HolySpirit.
Just this morning, John, my wifehad a beautiful, a beautiful,
personal guidance from the HolySpirit.
So we should be living this wayhour-by-hour.
Anyway, but Today's ChristianDesign emphasizes-- dare we say
(13:23):
it-- human guidance, throughsermons, music, and classes.
Now, we could keep going.
But let's stop here, and askourselves: What conclusion
(chuckles) can we draw from thiscomparison?
John (13:39):
(Sighs), well, as I said earlier, it's obvious, as we are
talking about this, that we'retalking about two very different
Organizational Structures, orOrganizational Designs!
Owen (13:53):
Yeah, they are! And let's just tell our friends how
they're different!
John (13:58):
Okay! Well the Early Christian Design, we know, was
free, informal, and most of all,Spiritual with a capital"s." But
Today's Design is rigid, formal,and conforms to rehearsed
(14:19):
programs.
So, quite a difference!
Owen (14:22):
Well, yeah.
That's a good summary too! Butthink about this big question:
Which of those two designs wouldgive us the best chance at being
Spiritual?
John (14:34):
Yeah, well of course, the Early Christians taught that
that God is a Spirit.
You know, Jesus said(hallelujah!) that He must be
worshiped in the Spirit.
Now, that makes sense.
So Christians must be-- we mustbe-- free to worship Him in a
supernatural way.
(14:55):
And the design for that...
that does the best...
puts us with the possibility ofthat...
is in a free and informal design-- like the Early Christians!
Owen (15:11):
Exactly! Exactamente! (Spanish, for"exactly!") So,
look at that! This isinteresting, now.
Let's have our listeners tightentheir seat belts.
We've arrived at an extremelyimportant Organizational Law.
And it's going to give us afresh view of how the Early
(15:31):
Christians met and worshiped.
You know, John, in the field ofOrganizational Behavior-- that's
called"OB" for short(and that)happens to be my field-- we
teach a law of OrganizationalDesign that everybody really
ought to know, and ought tothink about.
And it could be stated in threelittle words.
(15:54):
I don't know if any of ourlisteners are old enough to
remember the old song,"ThreeLittle Words." But here they
are.
Design Follows Purpose.
(Repeats.) Now, don't let thesethree little words scare you.
Here's what they mean in simplelanguage: The"design" of an
(16:15):
organization...
that means its shape, or itspattern, or the arrangement of
its parts...
reveals its purpose.
The design of an organizationreveals its purpose.
John (16:30):
This is very(laughs)-- Owen!-- this is very important!
So, most people are like me: Give us an example of what that (16:33):
undefined
really means.
Owen (16:40):
Well, let's think.
I'll tell you.
Let's read the law in reverse: The purpose of a thing dictates (16:43):
undefined
the design that it should have.
(Repeats.) For example, askyourself this: Why is a
limousine different from a racecar?
(17:04):
And why is a race car differentfrom a Jeep?
I used to own a Jeep, so I knowabout that.
And the answer is, becausethey're designed for different
purposes.
A limo's purpose is to carry aload of teenagers to the prom.
A race car's purpose is to winraces.
(17:26):
And a Jeep's purpose is to crashand bash through the woods.
So, design follows purpose!
John (17:33):
Okay, that's better.
That's a little more clear.
But actually, how-- here's thequestion-- how does that law
apply?
(How do) we lay that template tothe design of Christian groups?
Owen (17:50):
All right, let's do! Let's apply the law of"Design Follows
Purpose" to the two Christianorganizations we just talked
about.
Here we go with the first one: The Early Christian Design, we (17:57):
undefined
said, was free and informal.
It met in small groups inprivate, quiet homes.
There was no pre- plannedagenda.
The Holy Spirit guided theirmeetings.
And so-- if we apply the law of"Design Follows Purpose" to that
(18:20):
-- what would we guess thepurpose of their design was?
John (18:25):
Well, I think it's obvious.
Their design reveals that theirpurpose was to be Spiritual.
(Amen!) And their purpose was toworship God supernaturally, and
to let supernatural thingshappen.
Owen (18:42):
Absolutely.
Their design was following theirpurpose.
Well, let's look at our secondpiece of our comparison.
Today's Christian Design isrigid and formal.
Christians meet in large groups,in large buildings.
They have printed agendas.
And they watch a pre- plannedprogram, being presented by
(19:05):
professional musicians andleaders who have rehearsed and
prepared for that day.
So-- if we apply the law of"Design Follows Purpose"-- what
could we guess the purpose oftheir design is?
John (19:23):
Well, it's obvious again.
But I also think it's morecomplicated.
I think that Today's Design ispartially to entertain the group
-- dare I say-- partially toeducate the group.
And partially to maintain orderin the group.
Owen (19:41):
Yeah, it is.
It is complicated, John.
And all those purposes arecorrect.
But, this is interesting.
Let me stick in sideways.
Have you ever thought whytoday's Christians, in most
settings, are ranked in pews?
Lined up in ranks of pews, allthe way through the room...
(20:06):
the sanctuary...
whatever their denominationcalls it.
People have studied that, andthat's a symbol of military
ranks.
So, the people are lined as(if)to obey-- see-- their leader.
But, did you notice John, thatthere's one purpose that didn't
come to mind?
(20:26):
It didn't spring to mind, as welisted the purposes of Today's
Design?
John (20:33):
Yeah, and allow me just a little bit of a joke that I
heard one time.
Where a gentlemen in a-- quotes--"church" building, expressed
his agreement and optimism tosomething that was said, out
loud! And he was told to stopit.
(20:55):
And he said,"Well, I can't, Igot religion." And the people,
the powers to be, said,"Well,you didn't get it here!"
(Laughter.) And that's thetragedy we're talking about.
We don't usually think oftoday's Christian design, as
actually being for the purposeof Spiritual happenings.
(21:17):
We don't think of it being forsupernatural experience.
Owen (21:22):
Yeah.
The sad news is, if somebody hadone-- he got dragged out.
I've seen that done.
(Chuckles.) So that's right,John.
I mean, trying to be positivehere: If we openly and honestly
apply the law, that"DesignFollows Purpose," to Today's
Christian Design, that's theonly conclusion we can reach.
(21:46):
It's not really designed forSpiritual purposes.
It's designed for conformance toa rehearsed and pre- planned
program.
And John, let me hasten to say,that's not our fault.
See, I was raised that way.
I said in another episode, thatI've been a Christian since I
(22:09):
was 11.
I was raised in this format, ifyou want to call it(that)...
this template, if you want tocall it(that).
And everybody I know was.
So who are we blaming?
We're blaming Constantine.
So we're not here to trash ourfriends.
Or to trash today'sdenominations.
(22:30):
We're here to trash Constantine.
John (22:33):
Yeah, and Owen, I was thinking that,"You don't know
what you don't know."(Laughter.)And I was also thinking-- and
maybe it's important on somelevel to our listeners-- that
I'm actually a minister.
And so, I'm in this.
And yet, being in it, so we'renot trying to throw people under
(22:56):
the bus.
We're...
our goal is to understand theproblem, to find the solution,
and just see Spiritual growthhappening in people's lives.
Owen (23:08):
Absolutely.
That's what we want.
That's what you and I want.
That's what Shannon(theproducer) wants.
That's what we all want.
Well, l ook, let's tie down alittle bit.
This gets more interesting, andsee this a little more clearly.
In the field of OrganizationalBehavior-- or"OB" as we called
it-- there's another rule.
And this rule comes under theumbrella of"Design Follows
(23:31):
Purpose." But now, let's applythat rule to what we're saying
about Today's Design.
And here's that role.
Think about this (23:39):
Organizations that are designed for group
purposes, a re not efficient formeeting the needs of
individuals.
(Wow!) Think about this, now.
John (23:53):
That's quite a statement!
Owen (23:54):
Let's read it again, or say it again, for our friends:
Organizations that are designedfor group purposes, are not
efficient for meeting the needsof individuals.
Now, a good example would be thearmy.
The army is designed for agroup.
But that makes it inefficient,very many times, for meeting the
(24:18):
needs of individual soldiers.
Anybody(chuckles) that's everbeen in the military knows that
things are constantly gettinglost, and forgotten, and done
incorrectly, for the individualsoldiers.
But as a group, the army worksfairly well.
So, an organizational designthat'll work for a group, often
(24:41):
won't work all that well for anindividual.
John (24:44):
Yeah, that's so interesting! A friend of mine
just told me the other day-- hisson is in basic training-- and
he got to talk to him for a fewminutes.
And he was very frustrated,because he was having to do
pushups because the othersweren't taking it seriously! So
that just proves that pointagain, doesn't it?
But it also, it tells us that'swhy the early Christians had an
(25:08):
Organizational Design of meetinginformally, in small groups, in
private homes.
Because the purpose of theirdesign was to benefit individual
Christians.
Owen (25:25):
And that's exactly the point! You know, this is
something we said in a previousepisode.
But let's say it again.
And I think we even said itearlier, here.
It was the Holy Spirit who gavethe Early Christians the design
that they used.
Have we ever thought about that?
(25:48):
I mean, He could have given themtemples.
He could have created a templefor them.
But he didn't.
And you know, we're going todiscuss this more in upcoming
episodes-- but just to say, theHoly Spirit knew that Spiritual
growth only happens to people asindividuals.
(26:09):
It doesn't happen to people as agroup.
Have you ever thought aboutthat!
John (26:14):
Yeah, this is devastating.
Because today's Christianity, aswe know too well, is based on
the wrong Organizational Design.
Owen (26:25):
Wrong for many reasons, in many ways.
But at least, look now we'vefulfilled the promise that we
made at the top of the show.
We promised our friends that inthis episode, we would explain
why many Christians today seemconfused and weak.
And now we know why! It'sbecause they're meeting in the
(26:46):
wrong Organizational Design.
John (26:49):
Yeah, that's right.
And the question our friends areprobably asking now is: Where
did today's wrong design comefrom?
Who's responsible! But, wealready know the answer to that,
don't we.
Owen (27:01):
We do! See, we already know the answer.
We've discussed it fully inEpisodes 04 and 05.
But, just for somebody that mayhave missed it, the answer is
that (27:11):
The Roman emperor Constantine, when he founded
Institutional Christianity inthe Fourth Century-- then
today's Christian denominationsare the direct descendants of
Constantine's Fourth Centuryinstitution.
John (27:30):
That's why we titled this episode,"The Wrong Ancestors."
We're saying that today'sChristians are using an
Organizational Design that camefrom the wrong Christian
"ancestors."
Owen (27:48):
Exactly.
Exactly.
See, most Christians don't knowthat they have two ancestors to
choose from.
Like you said earlier, John,most of us can't choose our
ancestors.
But Christians can! And they...
but they don't know(it).
They've never been told thatthere is a second Organizational
(28:09):
Design from which they canchoose.
And of course, naturally that'swhy we're publishing these
episodes.
We want Christians to know theyhave a second option.
One that can give them Spiritualgrowth...
listen to this...
the same way it gave Spiritualgrowth to the original
(28:32):
Christians.
John (28:32):
And that is definitely why we are recording these episodes.
We want today's Christians tohave the same supernatural
peace, healings, hope, that theearly Christians had.
Owen (28:50):
Absolutely.
And let's remember, John.
The Early Christians were themost Spiritual people on earth
at that time-- before they weresuppressed.
Remember, we said in an earlierepisode that non-Christians
thought a"new race of humans"had appeared on earth because
(29:10):
the Early Christians were sodifferent.
So you know, John, we pray everyday that all of our listeners...
that all Christians everywhere...
will move into what we'recalling"The Deeper Walk." But
you know what?
I'm starting to resent this bigclock on the wall, John.
Because I see it's almost timeto close Episode 06.
(29:33):
But why don't we...
I'd like to close a differentway this time.
You know, our friends may notrealize it.
But at this point in thepodcast, we have now discussed
the first five chapters of thebook, Saving Christianity.
(29:54):
Now, we've just skimmed overthem.
But we have skimmed over fivechapters.
And in the book, if you look atthe Table of Contents, those
chapters are called Part One.
And that part has the title:"TheSource of the Trouble."
(Repeats.) So what we're sayingis, that Part One of the book is
(30:18):
all about the crisis, and what'scausing the crisis.
And that's what we've talkedabout now for several weeks.
So, next we need to starttalking about the Corrective
Action.
As individuals out there inpodcast land, what can we do
(30:39):
about this crisis?
John (30:40):
Yes-- what can we do about it as private individuals?
Owen (30:45):
Yeah, because we probably feel isolated and lonely.
You know, sometimes I do! Imean, it's a life-changing
question.
But now, look at Part Two of thebook.
Here's its title:"The EarlyChristian Basics."(Repeats.)
(31:06):
That's what we're moving into,starting with the next episode.
O ur friends, will remember that"Getting Back to the Christian
Basics" is one of the themes ofthis podcast, of these episodes,
as I've said it many times.
But here we go again""If we dowhat they did, we will have what
(31:26):
they had." A nd John, we wantwhat they had.
We want that supernatural peace,and healing, and hope, for
ourselves, our families, ourfriends...
and the Early Christians had it...
we can have it too.
John (31:42):
Yes, we absolutely do! But, we can't live successful
lives on this earth without it.
Owen (31:49):
That's what I've found.
And I've been around the trackseveral times.
(Chuckles.) So, starting nexttime, with Episode 07, we're
going to dive deep into thetechniques of"The Deeper
Christian Walk." And I'm prettysure there's a lot we're going
to say that will be completelynew to our friends who are
(32:12):
listening.
John (32:13):
I'm sure in that, too.
Owen (32:15):
So John, to close the episode, let's give our friend
some perspective.
Let's summarize the first sixepisodes of this podcast.
You know, those are the onesthat all-- I guess all of them--
that we've recorded to date: Episodes 01 through 06. (32:30):
undefined
And let's see can we summarizethem this way?
Here we go (32:39):
Christians were originally called Followers of
The Way.
And they lived a supernaturalbehavior that we call the Early
Christian Lifestyle.
What was that?
They met in small groups inhomes.
They sang, worshiped, prayed, asthe Holy Spirit guided them.
(32:59):
And because of that, healings,answers to prayer, angels, and
other miracles, were part oftheir daily lives.
And over the years, theFollowers of The Way evolved
into today's denominationalChristians.
And tragically, today'sdenominational Christians are in
(33:24):
crisis.
Millions of them are droppingout of the denominations, and
polls show that today's averageChristian is no more Spiritual
than a non-Christian.
The cause of the crisis, is thattoday's congregations don't
(33:45):
teach the Early ChristianLifestyle of Spiritual living
that the original Christianstaught.
And because of that, today'sworship services-- you said this
earlier, John-- are boring,irrelevant, and hypocritical.
(34:05):
But in turn, that's causingChristians to drop out and
become increasingly unspiritual.
The reason that the EarlyChristian Lifestyle is not
taught in today's congregationsis that they are descended from
(34:27):
the Emperor Constantine'sInstitutional Christianity of
the Fourth Century.
Remember, he built the first"church" buildings.
He named the day that we call"Sun Day." He founded the
"clergy." He even designed the"cross" as the Christian symbol.
(34:47):
But remember, Constantine wasnot a Christian.
And the changes he made toChristianity were done for
political and military reasons--not Spiritual reasons.
And that's why his changes arethe root cause of today's
crisis.
(35:09):
So, the solution to this crisis,is for Christians to"Get Back to
the Basics of EarlyChristianity." As we always say,
"If we do what they did, we willhave what they had." So, the
goal of these episodes is tohelp today's Christians return
(35:32):
to the same peace, healing, andhope that the Early Christians
enjoyed.
So, now it's time to talk aboutThe Deeper Christian Walk.
It's time to talk in clearlanguage about how to live the
way the Early Christians lived.
And so that's going to be thetheme of our upcoming episodes,
(35:55):
starting with Episode 07.
John (35:59):
Owen, that is a terrific summary of where we've been.
And it's a good summary of wherewe're going.
And I might throw in, the bestis yet to come, isn't it?
Owen (36:08):
Yeah, you know, and that's the way it is with Christian
life (36:12):
The best is always yet to come.
John (36:16):
Yeah, that's true.
And I can see that Episode 07 isgoing to be a turning point in
these episodes, and we're goingto get to the deep end of the
pool.
The deep Spiritual issues arecoming up now.
Owen (36:31):
Yes, they are! I can't wait.
But in the meantime, friendsremember that this is Episode 06
in the series.
A script and recording of it areon the Christian family Online
website.
And all you have to do to findthat is go on the internet to:
www.CFOpods.com.
(36:52):
C-F-O-P-O-D-S.com.
John (36:56):
Yeah, and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, so we
can get the notifications to youfor Episode number 07, and the
rest of the episodes.
Owen (37:07):
Absolutely.
But for now, for today, this isOwen Allen...
John (37:12):
...
and John Shields, and along withour producer, Shannon Wolf...
Owen (37:17):
....
saying (37:17):
May the God of our fathers bless you, and keep you,
and guide you, and protect you,until we meet again.
Owen and John (37:37):
Owen and John end the episode.
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