May 11, 2021 • 33 mins
An interview of John Shields, co-founder of the "Saving Christianity" podcast, by Shannon Wolfe, the podcast's producer. Shannon questions John in a direct way about growing up on a Virginia tobacco farm – how becoming a Christian changed his life – how he became a pastor – and why he co-founded this podcast.
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Episode Transcript
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Shannon Wolfe (00:00):
Shannon Wolfe opens the episode by saying:
Shannon (00:14):
Well, hello there, friends! This is Episode 12 in
our bi-weekly series of"SavingChristianity," coming to you
every-other-Tuesday fromChristian Family Online.
I'm Shannon Wolf, the producerof this podcast.
And I'm your host again for thisepisode.
The title of this episode is"John's Story." Again, that's
"John's Story." And in thisepisode, I'm going to interview
Pastor John, the co-founder ofthis podcast.
(00:35):
And I think we'd all like alittle bit of insight into what
God has done in his life, andwhat God is still doing in his
life today.
We'd like to know why he's apastor, and why he's co-founder
of this unusual podcast.
So let's welcome Pastor JohnShields to the show.
John (00:49):
Well, thank you, Shannon.
I'll look forward to talkingabout the"story"...
although I'm not excited abouttalking about myself.
Any anticipation I have comesfrom what God has done in my
life over the years.
And it's been incredible, really, for the last 36-37 years.
(01:13):
And so, when I listen to people,I like to know a little bit
about their background.
And so, I think our listenerswant to know where I'm coming
from...
and am I"buying the product"--quotes-- that I'm selling?
And so yeah, so let's go for it.
Shannon (01:33):
I think that's a good idea.
And I agree, you know, we do--even though it is kind of hard
to talk about ourselves-- it isgood to know, for other people
to know, where this is comingfrom, and the sincerity of it.
So that's good.
And so, I understand...
and I've known you for quite awhile now...
you've been our pastor for over15 years, and I had you in
(01:54):
college.
And we'll talk about that in alittle bit, once we get further
on into your story.
But I understand that you'refrom a place called Tight
Squeeze(Virginia).
Is that correct?
John (02:03):
Yeah(chuckles), Shannon, believe it or not, it is.
I'm a country boy, you wouldsay.
I grew up in a rural SouthernVirginia.
We lived out in the county, andwe farmed on the side.
My dad worked another full-timejob with the Postal Service.
But yeah, I grew up there, andwe raised tobacco.
(02:26):
And we worked very hard on thefarm.
That's what our summersconsisted of.
But here's the interestingthing.
My early days, growing up, wedid live in this little
community called Tight Squeeze(Virginia).
And there are various stories asto how that came about-- I'll
leave(those) for another day.
(02:47):
But we moved from Tight Squeeze.
We actually then moved to thefarm, which was on a road called
Snake Path.
And Snake Path was a suburb ofthe community of Dry Fork.
So, you can see there were someinteresting names and tales to
(03:11):
this little community that Icame from.
But it was a beloved community.
It was a fun growing up in thecountry like that.
And, and even though we workedhard, I have some great, great
memories, and I still(do).
I moved away from there in 1987,and that seems like forever.
(03:33):
I've never lived back...
of course, visits...
but have never lived back--quote--"home." But I have great,
great memories of growing upthere.
Shannon (03:42):
That's great.
So in other words, living in atight community like that, you
probably knew everyone's"shoesize," I guess!
John (03:48):
Yeah! Just about, yeah (chuckles).
Shannon (03:51):
Well, let's talk a little bit more about your
relationship with Christ.
And so, give us a description ofwhat life has been like...
how you came to know Christ.
John (04:01):
Yeah, Shannon.
I really feel like I was-- as aminister that actually led me to
Christ used to use a littlephrase-- that he felt like that
God had really kind of"favoredhim and privileged him." And I
feel the same way.
And what I mean by that is thatI was very fortunate.
(04:21):
I grew up in a home where myparents were practicing
Christians.
It wasn't just something theytalked about.
It was something that was verymuch a part of our family life.
Church attendance, beingdedicated and committed to the
local church, was something thatwas just a part of the lifestyle
(04:41):
of our family.
Now my father, particularly, hewas a leader in the church, and
well-respected.
And and so, I grew up there.
But when we became-- and I say"we"-- my older sister who is
now in heaven, at that time shewas married, and had moved away.
And I was the youngest.
(05:02):
And I had two brothers, twins,older than me by just three
years.
And so we were close together inage, as well as in our
relationship as brothers.
And when we-- each one-- when wecame to that age of 17-18, our
father no longer required us...
even though we lived at home...
(05:24):
he said to us,"Now you're youngmen, and you need to be making
some of your own decisions.
And this(attending church) isone of them.
And so you decide whether or notyou want this to be part of your
life." And all three of us,unfortunately, walked away.
We literally quit going.
And we lived in the community,and drove past our local church
(05:46):
that we'd gone to our wholelife.
But all three of us walked awayfrom it.
And that was symbolic of thelifestyle that we began to live.
Each one of us, turning, movingfurther and further away from
God.
And so, yeah, that was mychildhood.
(06:08):
And at least, my roots of theChristian faith.
Shannon (06:13):
Gotcha, okay.
And so with that, going awayfrom Christ, when did you
actually come back to Christ?
And your faith was no longeryour father's, or your family's,
or your pastor's?
When did Christ become yourrelationship?
John (06:29):
Yeah.
Well, that's a great question,and a good story I like to tell.
Actually, when left attending(church), I wasn't-- I never
became a Christian-- and I neverasked Christ to forgive me of my
sins.
I had heard all of the storiesof the Bible.
(06:50):
And actually, I actuallybelieved them.
That's, I guess, the ironicthing.
But I had never...
Christ was never real to me,until I was almost 22 years old.
So it was almost a five-yearspan there that church was
nothing more than a holidayexperience for me to please my
(07:15):
mother or my father, during thattime.
But there was a significantcatalyst that brought me to
faith.
And just very shortly, I couldspend an hour talking about
that.
But just very shortly, there wasa kind of a perfect storm, if
you will, going on in my life.
The first one was-- and theyhappened-- they were going along
(07:38):
really simultaneously.
They kind of reached acrescendo.
And the first one was...
like I said, I was almost 22years old...
and I was working.
I still lived at home.
I was the only child at home.
I had a good job, my ownautomobile, I was dating girls,
(08:00):
and just doing the bar thing onthe weekend.
And what I was finding now--four to five years into that--
although I was having, what Iwould say, a lot of fun with my
friends.
But as I look back, it was a lotof foolish things that I was a
(08:20):
part of.
But I began to feel like that...
really, asking myself thequestion,"Well, goodness, I'm
almost 22 years old! Is thiskind of the flow?
Is this how life is going to befor me?" And it just doesn't...
it wasn't gratifying anymore.
And so I began to feel thissense of,"Well, there's got to
(08:42):
be more to life than this!"Simultaneously...
all during that particularperiod, maybe is a better way to
say it...
my older brother, who was justlike myself and my other brother
, he was far from God and livinga very godless life as well.
(09:05):
And yet in the midst of that,there was a miraculous-- and I
say that very(laughs) withcaution.
But it was a miraculous eventthat happened, literally
overnight.
And(inaudible) I was involved inthat to some degree, watching it
(09:30):
happen.
But literally overnight-- mybrother-- God supernaturally
came to him in a drunken state.
God came to him and saved him.
He rescued him, and sobering himup, and literally saved him.
Saved his life.
Saved his soul.
And transformed him in a 24-hourperiod.
(09:53):
And I'm sure that had happenedbefore.
But I didn't have eyes to seeit.
It was so up close and personal,that I saw my brother change.
I saw his life transformed.
And that was like the proverbialstraw(chuckles) that broke the
camel's back.
(10:13):
And I saw that then.
And I was like,"Oh, wow." Sowhat my father had demonstrated
to me all of those years, andgoing to our local church there
in the country.
I thought,"Wow, faith*is real.
God*is real.
He*does change your life!" Andso out of that experience, I
(10:36):
came to Christ.
I asked him to come into my lifeand to forgive my sin.
And I didn't understand it allthen.
And don't now.
But nevertheless, I knew then hedid.
And that was all 37 years ago, Iguess.
And so, yeah, my life withChrist began then.
Shannon (10:56):
Gotcha.
That's great.
And I, myself, just am forevergrateful for that.
Just because you've been ourpastor for our family for quite
a while now.
And so...
and I know others listening tothis podcast...
or those in our church wouldfeel the same way.
So we're glad of that.
And so let's talk a little bitabout your calling as a pastor.
(11:17):
When did you feel that call--and how long have you been
pastor now?
John (11:23):
Uh, almost 30 years.
Yeah, 30 years.
Yeah, that was interesting.
Shannon.
It was a couple of differentdynamics going on.
After I came to Christ, Ireignited the flame there, and I
went-- started going back-- tomy local church.
And so I was excited to go.
(11:46):
I wanted to go.
I got my Bible that I...
my parents got me a Bible...
and I started reading it.
And going to Sunday school.
And to prayer meetings onWednesday night.
And it would just, you know,consume my life.
And I was just hungering andyearning to know more.
(12:07):
To learn more, and what it meantto be-- to follow Christ-- to be
a Christian.
In the midst of all of that, mybrother, that I keep mentioning,
you can tell he had a lot ofinfluence in my life.
He felt that God had called himto serve Him vocationally-- to
be a minister himself.
(12:28):
And so in the midst of that, Iwatched him answer that call.
And I watched he and his wife(chuckles) load up their meager
belongings, and move off to atown in Kentucky to start
college and seminary.
And he had a long track ahead ofhim.
And so I watched that.
(12:48):
So, in the next year or so, Iwas working and all of that, and
I started just...
it's just...
you really can't explain it.
But just this sense of"calling"on my life: That God was*calling
me to serve Him vocationally aswell, and in that same path.
(13:11):
But I resisted it.
And my resistance came because Isaid,"Wait a minute." I said,
"Lord, this must, you must bemistaken.
This...
my brother did that.
And surely, the two of us,you're not going to call us
back-to-back to do the samething?" And I thought,"Well, you
(13:33):
know, is it real?
Am I just following him?
What will people think?" And soI-- you know-- I wrestled at
that for a year or more, Iguess.
And just finally one evening...
I remember I just tanked.
You know, I just said, you know,I don't understand all of this.
But I really believe that's whatGod is calling me to do.
(13:56):
So I made that decision, and Ibegan to tell my family.
And I said,"This is what I thinkI'm going to do.
I believe this is what God hascalled me to do." And so, much
like my brother, I loaded up my-- what meager belongings
(chuckles) that I had at thattime.
And I was married, and no kids.
And started...
(14:18):
moved to High Point, NorthCarolina...
and started.
It was just a little, smallBible college there.
And at the time, it was calledJohn Wesley(College).
And it was-- it just fit me likea glove.
It was small.
It was personal.
And I loved it, and enjoyed it.
And I was just like a sponge(chuckles) for four years.
And so I did that.
(14:40):
And I joined a localcongregation, and began to...
they allowed me to teach, andpreach, and be a part of that
congregation my whole time incollege.
And then I left there, and spentthe next four years in seminary,
continuing, furthering mytraining and education.
(15:02):
And so that's how I made thetransition.
Shannon (15:09):
Okay, got you.
And so I know that there was atsome point there...
you were working at a grocerystore.
And you were in line to kind oftake that over, and God just
went elsewhere.
John (15:20):
Yeah, that was during that year, that year and a half or so
of decision-making.
Right, I was involved in that,invested in that.
And I thought,"Well, you know,I'm just going to(chuckles)
leave all of this." And peopleeven-- you know-- people
thought,"Wow, this is kind offoolish to do that," you know.
(15:41):
But as I said, you can't reallyexplain it.
But I just knew deep in my heartthat that's what God was calling
me to do.
And so I did it, by His grace(chuckles).
Shannon (15:52):
That's amazing, where God takes our lives.
I know you say a lot, you know: "We make plans, but God brings (15:58):
undefined
to fruition what His will is."So all right.
So, let's talk a little bitabout now-- changing gears--
your relationship with Dr.
Owen.
And how you guys connected, and...
( inaudible).
John (16:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Well that's an interesting story(chuckles), as well.
I was, you know, a very youngman in my twenties.
And Owen was-- we're a differentgeneration.
He was older than-- he's olderthan I am.
And I met him when I, while Iwas in college.
(16:38):
I was invited to go to thischurch that I just mentioned a
few minutes ago.
And I never went anywhere else.
I went there, and stayed there,my whole time in college.
And those were very, very goodyears.
It happened that Owen's wife was, Jody, was the pianist there.
(17:00):
And so they were very, veryactive.
And I just...
I didn't at that time-- in 1987was when that was-- I didn't...
I knew we were a part of thesame church.
Uh, like I said, Owen was olderthan I am.
(17:20):
And he and I, you know, we kneweach other.
And we talked and were friends,and that sort of thing.
But...
and I was intrigued because Iknew that Owen, I knew that he
had his own consulting company,management company.
(17:41):
I knew that he had done a lot ofneat things.
I knew that he had traveled allover the world, and was
continuing to do that.
So I was always intrigued bythat.
But it wasn't until I finishedseminary that our relationship
really-- we really connected,and got on the same page that
(18:04):
eventually(chuckles) led us tothis podcast.
Shannon (18:08):
Got you.
Well, I'm very thankful for thatrelationship.
And I know over the past severalyears, we only knew him as your
mentor.
And now, thankfully, that hasbeen revealed to us.
And-- but even in that time ofDr.
Owen's travels and businesses,and as we've learned in the last
podcast a lot about his story(Episode 11), where do you guys
(18:31):
come together with the book(Saving Christianity) which is,
again, the basis of this podcast"Saving Christianity"?
Where...
what was your role in thatprocess?
John (18:42):
Yeah, well as I mentioned, when I came out of seminary,
Owen was very instrumental, infact, in me coming...
I actually was able to go backto the church that I had been
in, in college.
The minister there was a greatman, and he had retired.
(19:04):
And it just worked out in theProvidence of God that I went
back to that church, where Iessentially knew everybody
(chuckles) there on a first namebasis.
And(that was) my first full-timepastorate right out of seminary.
And you talk about a rookie!That's an understatement.
And, but anyway, it was there,and Owen and Jody were a part of
(19:27):
that.
And Owen was one of the eldersin that congregation.
And so I quickly, as a rookie,attached(chuckles) myself to
him.
I knew that I needed someoneolder than me, that had more
life experience, to guide me.
(19:49):
And so he, fortunately, waswilling to do that.
So I became, as it were, hisstudent.
And have been ever since,actually.
And that was about 1994.
So we started there in thatcongregation.
(20:13):
We began because we wanted tosee people...
of course...
we wanted to see people comingto Christ.
We wanted to see people growing,all of those things.
And and so we began to ask somereally, really hard questions
during that time.
And I'm not exaggerating to saythat we just spent, I guess,
(20:36):
hundreds of hours talking aboutall of this that eventually
became the book, and now thepodcast.
And we spent hundreds of hourstalking about it.
We, both of us, are avidreaders.
And so we read, and studied, andtalked, and prayed...
(20:56):
and read, and studied(chuckles),and talked, and prayed.
And that just went on and on foryears-- for about seven years,
actually.
And then I moved to...
not far away, but to anothercongregation in another town.
And we were not able to see eachother as much-- my
(21:21):
responsibilities there, and mytime schedule, et cetera.
And their lives, and they werebusy.
And then we...
I'm not exactly sure what yearit was...
but we reengaged, if you will.
And we picked right up where weleft off, and with all of our
(21:43):
discussions, our concerns aboutthe body of Christ...
about Christianity.
And-- as we've talked about somein the podcast-- we began to
look at all of the research, andthe polls, and just our own
experiences, and just to seethat churches(buildings) were
closing, and Christians werebecoming dissatisfied, and
(22:06):
disillusioned, and walking away.
And so we were just on amission, if you will(chuckles),
to figure out*why that is.
And I say"is" because it'scontinuing to happen.
And so that was the impetus, Iguess you would say, of how the
(22:29):
book finally came to be.
Shannon (22:32):
Got you, okay.
So in the last, you know,15-plus years that I've known
you, that I've worked with you--you know-- been under you as our
pastor of our family, and ourchurch family.
I know that a lot of times youspeak out of life experiences.
You teach, you preach, howeveryou want to word it, out of life
(22:55):
experiences.
So with all of that leading upto this conversation, and even
to this question (23:02):
What are some goals that you have?
I know that God has laid a loton your heart.
And, but even with the book,with our congregation, with
where you feel like God isleading us-- you know-- as a
congregation, your family, andall of that.
What are some goals that youhave in...
just even up unto now...
(23:26):
with the podcast, with the book,with all of that?
John (23:29):
Yeah, well Shannon, actually while I was at that
first church out of school thatI mentioned, when Owen and my
relationship began to deepen, tothat point, we had only had
ideas, and thoughts, and notes,et cetera.
But we had never began to-- justto practically put it out there
(23:53):
for people to see, and to learn,and understand.
And so we began, I would like tosay, our"experiment" there in
that first church.
And so Owen had developed aseries of teaching that made its
way into the book, eventually.
But it was kind of our"testrun," if you will.
(24:15):
We used it there in thecongregation to see how people
would receive it-- or not.
And so we started there.
And so...
in that"experiment"...
and so it went well.
And we liked the feedback thatwe got, and that sort of thing.
(24:38):
We felt like we had really foundthat niche, to what God was
leading us toward.
And so from that, when I went toanother congregation some years
later, we took that teaching andbrought it into that
congregation and did it againthere-- a revised version of
(25:03):
everything.
And a lot more thought, andinsight, and preparation, had
gone into it by that point.
And so we presented that again.
And it was well, well received.
And we just really felt that wewere on to something, if that
makes sense-- that God*wasleading us.
(25:25):
And again, as I referenced,we're seeing the demise of
Christianity.
And we had, both of us had had,experiences in our lives of the
realness of God, and how God hadchanged us, and changed other
people.
And we had had thoseexperiences, and we weren't
(25:47):
seeing those anymore.
We weren't experiencing themourselves.
And we realized...
we knew there had to be ananswer to that.
And so, again, through muchstudy, prayer, research, and
many, many cups of coffee, anddiscussion of all of this-- Owen
developed this entire teaching.
(26:12):
So we just eventually, you know,I just said to him,"Look, we've
got to go to the next step.
You're going to have to put thisin a book.
We've got to get it out there!"And so he took to the task.
He did all the work.
And he rewrote the entiremanuscript...
(26:33):
and went through all of thestruggle of getting that
published...
and all of that.
And the book was birthed:*SavingChristianity.
And so, yeah.
That's how that kind of alldeveloped.
Shannon (26:48):
Gotcha.
And that's great.
Because I think God loves ourhindsight.
And as we look back to see whereHe's led, and what He's done.
And you know, as a pastor, youhave the vision.
And you know the difficult partis casting that vision to the
people that you shepherd.
(27:09):
And so, I think that all of thatsays, and all of that put
together, has been done well.
And especially, you know, notthat we get it right at our
church now.
But just trying, striving, to bethat Acts 2 church(referring to
chapter 2 of the book of Acts inthe Bible), that getting back to
the way-- not the way that it"used to be." Because that just,
you know, that's the way we'vealways done it.
(27:30):
W e certainly don't want to be"traditional." That's actually
the opposite of what we want todo, is"tradition." But getting
back to the way that God createdit.
And relationships with people,with finances, with whether we
have a building or not, and allof that.
And getting back to the trueSmall Group feeling of the Early
(27:52):
(Christians), and just as thebook, you know, very well
outlines.
And so, I think that's great.
So thank you for letting us havethat little bit of background.
John (28:03):
Sure, yeah! Well, let's talk a little bit about your
family now.
You know, we learned a littlebit about your relationship with
Jesus...
with being a pastor...
with Dr.
Owen.
And so what about your familynow?
Let's know a little bit aboutyour family.
Yeah, my family is-- I'm happilymarried to a lovely wife.
(28:23):
Her name is Kit.
And she says this all the time--I hear her answer the phone--
she says,"My name is Kit." Andthen I hear her say,"K-I-T, you
know, like a First Aid kit." Andso to help people understand her
name.
And we have four childrentogether.
(28:44):
And they are all grown and gonenow.
And two of our children aremarried, no grandchildren.
And two of them are stillsingle.
And we hope that that's in thefuture for them, as well.
Our children, when they grew up-- we're grateful.
(29:06):
But sad as well.
They all...
their occupations, or who theymarried-- different things--
took them to different parts ofthe U.
S.
And so none of our children liveclose to us.
We are very close to our kids.
But we have one in Texas.
(29:29):
One in Wisconsin.
One in Florida.
And our closest one is in NorthCarolina, up in Boone( NC).
But none of them are right here,you know, living in the
neighborhood, that we get to seeon a regular basis.
And so, yeah.
Shannon (29:44):
Well, what about your newest addition to the family?
Let us know a little bit aboutabout her.
John (29:50):
Oh, yeah! Well, I have to tell you about"Beasley," is our
golden doodle(dog).
And since Kit and I became"emptynesters," and we felt it was...
now was the time.
We had four girls and raisedthem.
And so we got another girl--except this one has four legs
and doesn't talk back.
Shannon (30:15):
All right, that's great.
And that just in itself wasanother whole story about-- with
animals and dogs in the house,and all that.
And so it's just neat to see alot of the funness of that.
So that's great.
Well, Pastor John, this has beena great episode, and thank you
so much for taking the time totell us about your story, and
what God has done, and what Hecontinues to do.
(30:36):
We've really enjoyed that.
And we hope that our friendshave enjoyed it as well.
John (30:42):
Yeah, and I hope so.
And there's a-- obviously--there's a lot of other twists
and turns, and things that havehappened.
And the way God has directed mypaths.
And specifically over the years,and how he brought me and Owen
together...
how our friendship developed...
(31:02):
and our like-mindedness...
and our desire to seeChristianity be like it was in
the First Century-- or to thedegree that it*can be in the
21st Century.
And so our energy and our time--that now that has led us beyond
(31:25):
the book to this podcast, andany other means that God opens
up for us.
We're just trying to see peoplecome to Christ.
We're trying to see people that,once they come to Christ, that
they grow in their faith, andlive it, and walk it out, and
(31:47):
experience God in their*day inand day out* life.
And so, that's what this podcastis about, ultimately.
And so hopefully you're gettingthat.
That you're understanding that alittle more and more each week.
And that's certainly our hopeand our desire.
Shannon (32:10):
Well, Pastor John, as Dr.
Owen always says,"the big clockon the wall" is reminding us
that it is time to wrap up thisepisode.
And we want to remind everyonethat this is Episode 12 in our
series of episodes.
And again, we have a new episodethat comes out
every-other-Tuesday.
And with that, they all havetranscripts with those
(32:31):
recordings.
And so you can follow thosealong.
Some people will print those out, and read and make notes as
they listen.
Others will do it afterwards.
So whatever fits well for yourtime schedule.
But they're all on the website.
And to access those transcriptsand recordings, remember you can
go to (32:50):
G-O-S-C-P-O-D.com.
That's goSCpod.com.
And that way you can get all ofyour information there.
But for now, this is ShannonWolfe...
John (33:06):
...
and this is John Shields saying: "May the God of our Fathers (33:06):
undefined
bless you, and keep you, andguide you, and protect, you
until we meet again"
Shannon and John (33:15):
Shannon and John end the episode.
Shannon Wolfe opens the episode by saying:
Shannon (00:14):
Well, hello there, friends! This is Episode 12 in
our bi-weekly series of"SavingChristianity," coming to you
every-other-Tuesday fromChristian Family Online.
I'm Shannon Wolf, the producerof this podcast.
And I'm your host again for thisepisode.
The title of this episode is"John's Story." Again, that's
"John's Story." And in thisepisode, I'm going to interview
Pastor John, the co-founder ofthis podcast.
(00:35):
And I think we'd all like alittle bit of insight into what
God has done in his life, andwhat God is still doing in his
life today.
We'd like to know why he's apastor, and why he's co-founder
of this unusual podcast.
So let's welcome Pastor JohnShields to the show.
John (00:49):
Well, thank you, Shannon.
I'll look forward to talkingabout the"story"...
although I'm not excited abouttalking about myself.
Any anticipation I have comesfrom what God has done in my
life over the years.
And it's been incredible, really, for the last 36-37 years.
(01:13):
And so, when I listen to people,I like to know a little bit
about their background.
And so, I think our listenerswant to know where I'm coming
from...
and am I"buying the product"--quotes-- that I'm selling?
And so yeah, so let's go for it.
Shannon (01:33):
I think that's a good idea.
And I agree, you know, we do--even though it is kind of hard
to talk about ourselves-- it isgood to know, for other people
to know, where this is comingfrom, and the sincerity of it.
So that's good.
And so, I understand...
and I've known you for quite awhile now...
you've been our pastor for over15 years, and I had you in
(01:54):
college.
And we'll talk about that in alittle bit, once we get further
on into your story.
But I understand that you'refrom a place called Tight
Squeeze(Virginia).
Is that correct?
John (02:03):
Yeah(chuckles), Shannon, believe it or not, it is.
I'm a country boy, you wouldsay.
I grew up in a rural SouthernVirginia.
We lived out in the county, andwe farmed on the side.
My dad worked another full-timejob with the Postal Service.
But yeah, I grew up there, andwe raised tobacco.
(02:26):
And we worked very hard on thefarm.
That's what our summersconsisted of.
But here's the interestingthing.
My early days, growing up, wedid live in this little
community called Tight Squeeze(Virginia).
And there are various stories asto how that came about-- I'll
leave(those) for another day.
(02:47):
But we moved from Tight Squeeze.
We actually then moved to thefarm, which was on a road called
Snake Path.
And Snake Path was a suburb ofthe community of Dry Fork.
So, you can see there were someinteresting names and tales to
(03:11):
this little community that Icame from.
But it was a beloved community.
It was a fun growing up in thecountry like that.
And, and even though we workedhard, I have some great, great
memories, and I still(do).
I moved away from there in 1987,and that seems like forever.
(03:33):
I've never lived back...
of course, visits...
but have never lived back--quote--"home." But I have great,
great memories of growing upthere.
Shannon (03:42):
That's great.
So in other words, living in atight community like that, you
probably knew everyone's"shoesize," I guess!
John (03:48):
Yeah! Just about, yeah (chuckles).
Shannon (03:51):
Well, let's talk a little bit more about your
relationship with Christ.
And so, give us a description ofwhat life has been like...
how you came to know Christ.
John (04:01):
Yeah, Shannon.
I really feel like I was-- as aminister that actually led me to
Christ used to use a littlephrase-- that he felt like that
God had really kind of"favoredhim and privileged him." And I
feel the same way.
And what I mean by that is thatI was very fortunate.
(04:21):
I grew up in a home where myparents were practicing
Christians.
It wasn't just something theytalked about.
It was something that was verymuch a part of our family life.
Church attendance, beingdedicated and committed to the
local church, was something thatwas just a part of the lifestyle
(04:41):
of our family.
Now my father, particularly, hewas a leader in the church, and
well-respected.
And and so, I grew up there.
But when we became-- and I say"we"-- my older sister who is
now in heaven, at that time shewas married, and had moved away.
And I was the youngest.
(05:02):
And I had two brothers, twins,older than me by just three
years.
And so we were close together inage, as well as in our
relationship as brothers.
And when we-- each one-- when wecame to that age of 17-18, our
father no longer required us...
even though we lived at home...
(05:24):
he said to us,"Now you're youngmen, and you need to be making
some of your own decisions.
And this(attending church) isone of them.
And so you decide whether or notyou want this to be part of your
life." And all three of us,unfortunately, walked away.
We literally quit going.
And we lived in the community,and drove past our local church
(05:46):
that we'd gone to our wholelife.
But all three of us walked awayfrom it.
And that was symbolic of thelifestyle that we began to live.
Each one of us, turning, movingfurther and further away from
God.
And so, yeah, that was mychildhood.
(06:08):
And at least, my roots of theChristian faith.
Shannon (06:13):
Gotcha, okay.
And so with that, going awayfrom Christ, when did you
actually come back to Christ?
And your faith was no longeryour father's, or your family's,
or your pastor's?
When did Christ become yourrelationship?
John (06:29):
Yeah.
Well, that's a great question,and a good story I like to tell.
Actually, when left attending(church), I wasn't-- I never
became a Christian-- and I neverasked Christ to forgive me of my
sins.
I had heard all of the storiesof the Bible.
(06:50):
And actually, I actuallybelieved them.
That's, I guess, the ironicthing.
But I had never...
Christ was never real to me,until I was almost 22 years old.
So it was almost a five-yearspan there that church was
nothing more than a holidayexperience for me to please my
(07:15):
mother or my father, during thattime.
But there was a significantcatalyst that brought me to
faith.
And just very shortly, I couldspend an hour talking about
that.
But just very shortly, there wasa kind of a perfect storm, if
you will, going on in my life.
The first one was-- and theyhappened-- they were going along
(07:38):
really simultaneously.
They kind of reached acrescendo.
And the first one was...
like I said, I was almost 22years old...
and I was working.
I still lived at home.
I was the only child at home.
I had a good job, my ownautomobile, I was dating girls,
(08:00):
and just doing the bar thing onthe weekend.
And what I was finding now--four to five years into that--
although I was having, what Iwould say, a lot of fun with my
friends.
But as I look back, it was a lotof foolish things that I was a
(08:20):
part of.
But I began to feel like that...
really, asking myself thequestion,"Well, goodness, I'm
almost 22 years old! Is thiskind of the flow?
Is this how life is going to befor me?" And it just doesn't...
it wasn't gratifying anymore.
And so I began to feel thissense of,"Well, there's got to
(08:42):
be more to life than this!"Simultaneously...
all during that particularperiod, maybe is a better way to
say it...
my older brother, who was justlike myself and my other brother
, he was far from God and livinga very godless life as well.
(09:05):
And yet in the midst of that,there was a miraculous-- and I
say that very(laughs) withcaution.
But it was a miraculous eventthat happened, literally
overnight.
And(inaudible) I was involved inthat to some degree, watching it
(09:30):
happen.
But literally overnight-- mybrother-- God supernaturally
came to him in a drunken state.
God came to him and saved him.
He rescued him, and sobering himup, and literally saved him.
Saved his life.
Saved his soul.
And transformed him in a 24-hourperiod.
(09:53):
And I'm sure that had happenedbefore.
But I didn't have eyes to seeit.
It was so up close and personal,that I saw my brother change.
I saw his life transformed.
And that was like the proverbialstraw(chuckles) that broke the
camel's back.
(10:13):
And I saw that then.
And I was like,"Oh, wow." Sowhat my father had demonstrated
to me all of those years, andgoing to our local church there
in the country.
I thought,"Wow, faith*is real.
God*is real.
He*does change your life!" Andso out of that experience, I
(10:36):
came to Christ.
I asked him to come into my lifeand to forgive my sin.
And I didn't understand it allthen.
And don't now.
But nevertheless, I knew then hedid.
And that was all 37 years ago, Iguess.
And so, yeah, my life withChrist began then.
Shannon (10:56):
Gotcha.
That's great.
And I, myself, just am forevergrateful for that.
Just because you've been ourpastor for our family for quite
a while now.
And so...
and I know others listening tothis podcast...
or those in our church wouldfeel the same way.
So we're glad of that.
And so let's talk a little bitabout your calling as a pastor.
(11:17):
When did you feel that call--and how long have you been
pastor now?
John (11:23):
Uh, almost 30 years.
Yeah, 30 years.
Yeah, that was interesting.
Shannon.
It was a couple of differentdynamics going on.
After I came to Christ, Ireignited the flame there, and I
went-- started going back-- tomy local church.
And so I was excited to go.
(11:46):
I wanted to go.
I got my Bible that I...
my parents got me a Bible...
and I started reading it.
And going to Sunday school.
And to prayer meetings onWednesday night.
And it would just, you know,consume my life.
And I was just hungering andyearning to know more.
(12:07):
To learn more, and what it meantto be-- to follow Christ-- to be
a Christian.
In the midst of all of that, mybrother, that I keep mentioning,
you can tell he had a lot ofinfluence in my life.
He felt that God had called himto serve Him vocationally-- to
be a minister himself.
(12:28):
And so in the midst of that, Iwatched him answer that call.
And I watched he and his wife(chuckles) load up their meager
belongings, and move off to atown in Kentucky to start
college and seminary.
And he had a long track ahead ofhim.
And so I watched that.
(12:48):
So, in the next year or so, Iwas working and all of that, and
I started just...
it's just...
you really can't explain it.
But just this sense of"calling"on my life: That God was*calling
me to serve Him vocationally aswell, and in that same path.
(13:11):
But I resisted it.
And my resistance came because Isaid,"Wait a minute." I said,
"Lord, this must, you must bemistaken.
This...
my brother did that.
And surely, the two of us,you're not going to call us
back-to-back to do the samething?" And I thought,"Well, you
(13:33):
know, is it real?
Am I just following him?
What will people think?" And soI-- you know-- I wrestled at
that for a year or more, Iguess.
And just finally one evening...
I remember I just tanked.
You know, I just said, you know,I don't understand all of this.
But I really believe that's whatGod is calling me to do.
(13:56):
So I made that decision, and Ibegan to tell my family.
And I said,"This is what I thinkI'm going to do.
I believe this is what God hascalled me to do." And so, much
like my brother, I loaded up my-- what meager belongings
(chuckles) that I had at thattime.
And I was married, and no kids.
And started...
(14:18):
moved to High Point, NorthCarolina...
and started.
It was just a little, smallBible college there.
And at the time, it was calledJohn Wesley(College).
And it was-- it just fit me likea glove.
It was small.
It was personal.
And I loved it, and enjoyed it.
And I was just like a sponge(chuckles) for four years.
And so I did that.
(14:40):
And I joined a localcongregation, and began to...
they allowed me to teach, andpreach, and be a part of that
congregation my whole time incollege.
And then I left there, and spentthe next four years in seminary,
continuing, furthering mytraining and education.
(15:02):
And so that's how I made thetransition.
Shannon (15:09):
Okay, got you.
And so I know that there was atsome point there...
you were working at a grocerystore.
And you were in line to kind oftake that over, and God just
went elsewhere.
John (15:20):
Yeah, that was during that year, that year and a half or so
of decision-making.
Right, I was involved in that,invested in that.
And I thought,"Well, you know,I'm just going to(chuckles)
leave all of this." And peopleeven-- you know-- people
thought,"Wow, this is kind offoolish to do that," you know.
(15:41):
But as I said, you can't reallyexplain it.
But I just knew deep in my heartthat that's what God was calling
me to do.
And so I did it, by His grace(chuckles).
Shannon (15:52):
That's amazing, where God takes our lives.
I know you say a lot, you know: "We make plans, but God brings (15:58):
undefined
to fruition what His will is."So all right.
So, let's talk a little bitabout now-- changing gears--
your relationship with Dr.
Owen.
And how you guys connected, and...
( inaudible).
John (16:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Well that's an interesting story(chuckles), as well.
I was, you know, a very youngman in my twenties.
And Owen was-- we're a differentgeneration.
He was older than-- he's olderthan I am.
And I met him when I, while Iwas in college.
(16:38):
I was invited to go to thischurch that I just mentioned a
few minutes ago.
And I never went anywhere else.
I went there, and stayed there,my whole time in college.
And those were very, very goodyears.
It happened that Owen's wife was, Jody, was the pianist there.
(17:00):
And so they were very, veryactive.
And I just...
I didn't at that time-- in 1987was when that was-- I didn't...
I knew we were a part of thesame church.
Uh, like I said, Owen was olderthan I am.
(17:20):
And he and I, you know, we kneweach other.
And we talked and were friends,and that sort of thing.
But...
and I was intrigued because Iknew that Owen, I knew that he
had his own consulting company,management company.
(17:41):
I knew that he had done a lot ofneat things.
I knew that he had traveled allover the world, and was
continuing to do that.
So I was always intrigued bythat.
But it wasn't until I finishedseminary that our relationship
really-- we really connected,and got on the same page that
(18:04):
eventually(chuckles) led us tothis podcast.
Shannon (18:08):
Got you.
Well, I'm very thankful for thatrelationship.
And I know over the past severalyears, we only knew him as your
mentor.
And now, thankfully, that hasbeen revealed to us.
And-- but even in that time ofDr.
Owen's travels and businesses,and as we've learned in the last
podcast a lot about his story(Episode 11), where do you guys
(18:31):
come together with the book(Saving Christianity) which is,
again, the basis of this podcast"Saving Christianity"?
Where...
what was your role in thatprocess?
John (18:42):
Yeah, well as I mentioned, when I came out of seminary,
Owen was very instrumental, infact, in me coming...
I actually was able to go backto the church that I had been
in, in college.
The minister there was a greatman, and he had retired.
(19:04):
And it just worked out in theProvidence of God that I went
back to that church, where Iessentially knew everybody
(chuckles) there on a first namebasis.
And(that was) my first full-timepastorate right out of seminary.
And you talk about a rookie!That's an understatement.
And, but anyway, it was there,and Owen and Jody were a part of
(19:27):
that.
And Owen was one of the eldersin that congregation.
And so I quickly, as a rookie,attached(chuckles) myself to
him.
I knew that I needed someoneolder than me, that had more
life experience, to guide me.
(19:49):
And so he, fortunately, waswilling to do that.
So I became, as it were, hisstudent.
And have been ever since,actually.
And that was about 1994.
So we started there in thatcongregation.
(20:13):
We began because we wanted tosee people...
of course...
we wanted to see people comingto Christ.
We wanted to see people growing,all of those things.
And and so we began to ask somereally, really hard questions
during that time.
And I'm not exaggerating to saythat we just spent, I guess,
(20:36):
hundreds of hours talking aboutall of this that eventually
became the book, and now thepodcast.
And we spent hundreds of hourstalking about it.
We, both of us, are avidreaders.
And so we read, and studied, andtalked, and prayed...
(20:56):
and read, and studied(chuckles),and talked, and prayed.
And that just went on and on foryears-- for about seven years,
actually.
And then I moved to...
not far away, but to anothercongregation in another town.
And we were not able to see eachother as much-- my
(21:21):
responsibilities there, and mytime schedule, et cetera.
And their lives, and they werebusy.
And then we...
I'm not exactly sure what yearit was...
but we reengaged, if you will.
And we picked right up where weleft off, and with all of our
(21:43):
discussions, our concerns aboutthe body of Christ...
about Christianity.
And-- as we've talked about somein the podcast-- we began to
look at all of the research, andthe polls, and just our own
experiences, and just to seethat churches(buildings) were
closing, and Christians werebecoming dissatisfied, and
(22:06):
disillusioned, and walking away.
And so we were just on amission, if you will(chuckles),
to figure out*why that is.
And I say"is" because it'scontinuing to happen.
And so that was the impetus, Iguess you would say, of how the
(22:29):
book finally came to be.
Shannon (22:32):
Got you, okay.
So in the last, you know,15-plus years that I've known
you, that I've worked with you--you know-- been under you as our
pastor of our family, and ourchurch family.
I know that a lot of times youspeak out of life experiences.
You teach, you preach, howeveryou want to word it, out of life
(22:55):
experiences.
So with all of that leading upto this conversation, and even
to this question (23:02):
What are some goals that you have?
I know that God has laid a loton your heart.
And, but even with the book,with our congregation, with
where you feel like God isleading us-- you know-- as a
congregation, your family, andall of that.
What are some goals that youhave in...
just even up unto now...
(23:26):
with the podcast, with the book,with all of that?
John (23:29):
Yeah, well Shannon, actually while I was at that
first church out of school thatI mentioned, when Owen and my
relationship began to deepen, tothat point, we had only had
ideas, and thoughts, and notes,et cetera.
But we had never began to-- justto practically put it out there
(23:53):
for people to see, and to learn,and understand.
And so we began, I would like tosay, our"experiment" there in
that first church.
And so Owen had developed aseries of teaching that made its
way into the book, eventually.
But it was kind of our"testrun," if you will.
(24:15):
We used it there in thecongregation to see how people
would receive it-- or not.
And so we started there.
And so...
in that"experiment"...
and so it went well.
And we liked the feedback thatwe got, and that sort of thing.
(24:38):
We felt like we had really foundthat niche, to what God was
leading us toward.
And so from that, when I went toanother congregation some years
later, we took that teaching andbrought it into that
congregation and did it againthere-- a revised version of
(25:03):
everything.
And a lot more thought, andinsight, and preparation, had
gone into it by that point.
And so we presented that again.
And it was well, well received.
And we just really felt that wewere on to something, if that
makes sense-- that God*wasleading us.
(25:25):
And again, as I referenced,we're seeing the demise of
Christianity.
And we had, both of us had had,experiences in our lives of the
realness of God, and how God hadchanged us, and changed other
people.
And we had had thoseexperiences, and we weren't
(25:47):
seeing those anymore.
We weren't experiencing themourselves.
And we realized...
we knew there had to be ananswer to that.
And so, again, through muchstudy, prayer, research, and
many, many cups of coffee, anddiscussion of all of this-- Owen
developed this entire teaching.
(26:12):
So we just eventually, you know,I just said to him,"Look, we've
got to go to the next step.
You're going to have to put thisin a book.
We've got to get it out there!"And so he took to the task.
He did all the work.
And he rewrote the entiremanuscript...
(26:33):
and went through all of thestruggle of getting that
published...
and all of that.
And the book was birthed:*SavingChristianity.
And so, yeah.
That's how that kind of alldeveloped.
Shannon (26:48):
Gotcha.
And that's great.
Because I think God loves ourhindsight.
And as we look back to see whereHe's led, and what He's done.
And you know, as a pastor, youhave the vision.
And you know the difficult partis casting that vision to the
people that you shepherd.
(27:09):
And so, I think that all of thatsays, and all of that put
together, has been done well.
And especially, you know, notthat we get it right at our
church now.
But just trying, striving, to bethat Acts 2 church(referring to
chapter 2 of the book of Acts inthe Bible), that getting back to
the way-- not the way that it"used to be." Because that just,
you know, that's the way we'vealways done it.
(27:30):
W e certainly don't want to be"traditional." That's actually
the opposite of what we want todo, is"tradition." But getting
back to the way that God createdit.
And relationships with people,with finances, with whether we
have a building or not, and allof that.
And getting back to the trueSmall Group feeling of the Early
(27:52):
(Christians), and just as thebook, you know, very well
outlines.
And so, I think that's great.
So thank you for letting us havethat little bit of background.
John (28:03):
Sure, yeah! Well, let's talk a little bit about your
family now.
You know, we learned a littlebit about your relationship with
Jesus...
with being a pastor...
with Dr.
Owen.
And so what about your familynow?
Let's know a little bit aboutyour family.
Yeah, my family is-- I'm happilymarried to a lovely wife.
(28:23):
Her name is Kit.
And she says this all the time--I hear her answer the phone--
she says,"My name is Kit." Andthen I hear her say,"K-I-T, you
know, like a First Aid kit." Andso to help people understand her
name.
And we have four childrentogether.
(28:44):
And they are all grown and gonenow.
And two of our children aremarried, no grandchildren.
And two of them are stillsingle.
And we hope that that's in thefuture for them, as well.
Our children, when they grew up-- we're grateful.
(29:06):
But sad as well.
They all...
their occupations, or who theymarried-- different things--
took them to different parts ofthe U.
S.
And so none of our children liveclose to us.
We are very close to our kids.
But we have one in Texas.
(29:29):
One in Wisconsin.
One in Florida.
And our closest one is in NorthCarolina, up in Boone( NC).
But none of them are right here,you know, living in the
neighborhood, that we get to seeon a regular basis.
And so, yeah.
Shannon (29:44):
Well, what about your newest addition to the family?
Let us know a little bit aboutabout her.
John (29:50):
Oh, yeah! Well, I have to tell you about"Beasley," is our
golden doodle(dog).
And since Kit and I became"emptynesters," and we felt it was...
now was the time.
We had four girls and raisedthem.
And so we got another girl--except this one has four legs
and doesn't talk back.
Shannon (30:15):
All right, that's great.
And that just in itself wasanother whole story about-- with
animals and dogs in the house,and all that.
And so it's just neat to see alot of the funness of that.
So that's great.
Well, Pastor John, this has beena great episode, and thank you
so much for taking the time totell us about your story, and
what God has done, and what Hecontinues to do.
(30:36):
We've really enjoyed that.
And we hope that our friendshave enjoyed it as well.
John (30:42):
Yeah, and I hope so.
And there's a-- obviously--there's a lot of other twists
and turns, and things that havehappened.
And the way God has directed mypaths.
And specifically over the years,and how he brought me and Owen
together...
how our friendship developed...
(31:02):
and our like-mindedness...
and our desire to seeChristianity be like it was in
the First Century-- or to thedegree that it*can be in the
21st Century.
And so our energy and our time--that now that has led us beyond
(31:25):
the book to this podcast, andany other means that God opens
up for us.
We're just trying to see peoplecome to Christ.
We're trying to see people that,once they come to Christ, that
they grow in their faith, andlive it, and walk it out, and
(31:47):
experience God in their*day inand day out* life.
And so, that's what this podcastis about, ultimately.
And so hopefully you're gettingthat.
That you're understanding that alittle more and more each week.
And that's certainly our hopeand our desire.
Shannon (32:10):
Well, Pastor John, as Dr.
Owen always says,"the big clockon the wall" is reminding us
that it is time to wrap up thisepisode.
And we want to remind everyonethat this is Episode 12 in our
series of episodes.
And again, we have a new episodethat comes out
every-other-Tuesday.
And with that, they all havetranscripts with those
(32:31):
recordings.
And so you can follow thosealong.
Some people will print those out, and read and make notes as
they listen.
Others will do it afterwards.
So whatever fits well for yourtime schedule.
But they're all on the website.
And to access those transcriptsand recordings, remember you can
go to (32:50):
G-O-S-C-P-O-D.com.
That's goSCpod.com.
And that way you can get all ofyour information there.
But for now, this is ShannonWolfe...
John (33:06):
...
and this is John Shields saying: "May the God of our Fathers (33:06):
undefined
bless you, and keep you, andguide you, and protect, you
until we meet again"
Shannon and John (33:15):
Shannon and John end the episode.
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