July 20, 2021 • 56 mins
What is a "mature" Christian? What are the benefits of "maturity"? What role does the "Fruit of the Spirit" play? Why do some Christians grow, while others don't? What's the best "model" for growth – and are Christians using that model today? This episode answers these vitally important questions and more.
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Episode Transcript
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John (00:00):
John Shields opens the episode by saying
friends! This is Episode 17 inour bi-weekly series of"Saving
Christianity." We're coming toyou every-other-Tuesday from
(00:23):
Christian Family Online.
And I'm your host, John Shields.
And welcome to today's podcast.
In the two previous episodes,you may recall Episodes 15 and
16, we were talking about"TheGrowing Christian" and"The
Spirit-filling Crisis"-- twoextremely important topics.
(00:48):
We talked about how Christiansgrow Spiritually by being
Spirit-filled.
And we also talked about thereasons why many Christians
today are*not Spirit-filled, andare*not growing Spiritually.
In those two episodes, we alsosaid that the mark and sign of
(01:09):
Christians when they*areSpirit-filled is that they have
what the Early Christians calledthe"Fruit of the Spirit." Well,
that means that when Christiansare Spirit-filled, they will
have an outer behavior ofsupernatural love...
and joy...
and peace...
(01:29):
and patience that non-Christians*can't have, and that infant
Christians*don't have.
In summary, we said whenChristians are Spirit-filled,
they have"a little bit of heavenhere on earth." And, my! Don't
we need some of that! So, herewe are now in Episode 17.
(01:50):
And the title of this episodeis:"The Mature Christian."
(Repeats.) And in this episode,we're going to talk about how
Christians can makeSpirit-filling a daily habit.
Wow.
Think about that.
In other words, how we canbecome Spiritually mature, and
(02:13):
live what we call"The EarlyChristian Lifestyle." Well, I'm
anxious to get into that.
But before we start, let'sintroduce our c o-host, O wen
Allen.
Welcome, Owen, to Episode 17.
Owen (02:27):
Well, thank you, John.
"Hello" to you, and to ourintrepid producer, Shannon.
And a big"hello" to all of ourfriends out in Podcast Land.
I'm(chuckles) really lookingforward to this episode because
the subject of Spiritualmaturity, I'm sad to say, John
and Shannon, is very oftenmisunderstood in today's
(02:49):
Christianity.
And by the way, we are inChapter 10 of the book now,
*Saving Christianity*.
And the title of that chapter isin fact,"The Mature Christian."
We'll be skimming a few ideasoff the top here today.
But I'm hopeful that all of ourfriends will actually go and
read that full chapterthoughtfully.
(03:10):
But John, before we start, letme mention two important ideas
that we haven't talked about forseveral weeks.
First of all, we need toremember that this is a"serial"
podcast,(as) technical peoplecall it.
Our episodes are*sequential, andso they build on one another.
(03:34):
And if any of our friends havenot done so yet, they would
really benefit from going backand listening to the earlier
episodes.
That'll help them betterunderstand what we're saying at
this point in this podcast.
But secondly, number two, all ofour episodes are on our website
at goSCpod.com-- both the audiosand the transcripts.
(04:00):
And they'll remember, we talkedabout this at one time, if our
friends will*read the episodesas well as*listening to them,
they'll be using 90% of theirlearning ability to absorb these
ideas and principles.
And we urge all of our friendsto do that.
But right now, let's continuewith Episode 17.
(04:25):
And to understand Spiritualmaturity-- or, dare I say, the
lack of it-- we need to thinkabout the fact that today's
Christianity is based on what wecould call a"Classroom Model"
(repeats), that traces back tothe Roman emperor Constantine in
the Four Century.
What that means is, in practicaleveryday terms, is in most
(04:51):
congregations today, the memberssit quietly with paper and
pencil, or iPad, or iPhone, orlaptop, and they make notes,
while their Sunday schoolteacher or pastor teaches them
from a podium or a pulpit.
You can see that's a"ClassroomModel" for learning Spiritual
(05:12):
maturity.
And of course, we've talkedabout it many times, the Gallup
polls show that does*not work,as we've explained in earlier
episodes.
So, in this episode, we want toemphasize three things-- three
things about Spiritual maturity-- as a platform for this whole
(05:35):
episode.
First (05:35):
People learn by*doing, not by listening.
Second (05:40):
Why is that important?
Many Christians were illiteratein t he First Century.
Only about 10% of the populationwas polished and functionally
literate.
Most people could not read andwrite.
(06:01):
And what does that mean?
They*couldn't listen and makenotes because they couldn't read
and write.
So today's model wouldn't work.
But number three (06:09):
Even if they *had been able to read and
write, there were no papers,pencils, iPads, iPhones, and
laptops for them to use.
So what are we saying?
We're saying that the"ClassroomModel" didn't...
does not work.
And does not even apply toSpiritual growth.
(06:30):
So these facts, what d o theytell us?
They tell us that since theEarly Christians*did grow
Spiritually, but many Christianstoday*don't grow Spiritually,
then our congregations today areusing the*wrong model, aren't
(06:50):
they.
They're doing something wrong.
They're using that"ClassroomModel," instead of what we call
the Early Christian Model.
So, in today's episode, we aregoing to tell our friends how to
use the Early Christian Modelfor Spiritual growth.
John (07:10):
Yeah.
Owen, that's exactly right.
And so much can be said aboutthis, beyond even our time today
in our podcast.
And I see the"Classroom Model"being used every day in
Christian radio, television,(and) worship services.
So in this episode, we need totell our friends*how-- very
(07:30):
important-- the Early ChristianModel is*different, and also why
it's so much more*efficient thantoday's"Classroom Model."
Owen (07:43):
Hmm.
Those are great points, John.
And also I'm thinking whiledoing that, let's try to be as
clear and as simple about all ofthis as we can.
But let's start by remembering aplatform definition from a
previous episode.
And here's that definition.
"Spiritual Growth." What is it?
(08:04):
xSpiritual growth is the processof increasing both the*amount,
and the*time, that the HolySpirit motivates us during the
day.x Now let's repeat thatquickly.
"Spiritual Growth" is thisdefinition: Spiritual Growth is
the process of increasing boththe*amount and the*time that the
(08:28):
Holy Spirit motivates us duringthe day.
John (08:31):
Yeah.
We're talking about real time,real life, real transformation.
It's great.
That means we need a model thatallows, if you will, the Holy
Spirit(to) motivate us as muchas possible during the day.
Because Spirit-filling-- thinkabout this-- is when the Holy
(08:56):
Spirit is motivating 51percentor more of our mind during the
day.
Owen (09:05):
Yeah, let's tie this even further back, John, say it a
little different way.
Way back in Episode 15, we saidthat Spiritual growth is
increasing our*Spiritualbehavior* during the day.
See how that's the same thing.
Increasing our*Spiritualbehavior* during the day, the
way you just defined it John.
(09:26):
And way back there we said thatSpiritual behavior was when the
indwelling Holy Spirit producesin us an outer behavior of
supernatural-- and we're goingto come back to that word--
*supernatural love, joy, peace,patience, kindness, goodness,
(09:48):
faithfulness, gentleness, andself control.
*Supernatural!
John (09:52):
Yeah, and so we're saying that the mark and sign of a
Spirit-filled Christian is the*extent to which, and the period
of*time for which, he or she hasthis supernatural love, joy,
peace, and patience working,operating in(his or her) life.
Owen (10:16):
Absolutely, totally.
I mean, think about that.
This is fantastic stuff here.
So, but it's important to noticein what you just said, John,
that Spirit-filling happens-- Idon't like this term, but it's
the only one I can think of--Spirit-filling happens on a
"sliding scale." Spirit-fillingis*not a One-Time experience, as
(10:42):
some people teach.
It's*not an Either-Or experience-- either you have it or you
don't-- as some people teach.
It's a Degree-to-Whichexperience.
Every Christian can, and should,be Spirit-filled.
But every Christian is beingmotivated, influenced, to*some
(11:04):
extent* on that"sliding scale"by the indwelling power of the
Holy Spirit.
It's the Degree-to-Which you,and I, and Shannon, and the rest
of us, have that*supernaturallove, peace, and joy, during the
day.
John (11:20):
Yeah, sure.
And as we said, that's simple,but complicated at the same
time.
So let's repeat the process.
How does Spirit-filling work forChristians?
Owen (11:33):
Okay, here we go.
Let's spell it out.
And we said this back in Episode15, we said that the Holy Spirit
happens inside every Christianand two different ways.
And here are those two ways: First, He operates in us to some (11:47):
undefined
*amount.
The Spirit can motivate ourminds in any amount from zero to
potentially a hundred percent,during the day.
But we said that when Hismotivation within us passes the
(12:07):
51percent mark, we can say thatwe're legally"Spirit-filled."
But secondly, that could happenfor a couple of seconds in a 24
hour day-- and I dare say it*does-- but what good is that?
So the second is*time.
When the Spirit is motivatingour minds 51 percent of the*time
(12:28):
during the day, we could saythat we're living the Early
Christian Lifestyle that we talkabout.
And when that lifestyle becomesa*habit...
hang on...
you can say that we are"Spiritually Mature."
John (12:42):
And we read that over and over in the New Testament, in
terms like,"Walk in the Spirit"...
"Keep in step with the Spirit."So, as Christians, we need to
focus on two things (12:53):
First, how *much of our mind is being
motivated by the Holy Spiritduring the day?
And second, how*long during theday is that motivation Lasting?
Owen (13:07):
Yeah, I mean what could be more simple, John?
And yet we try to make it socomplicated.
And this reminds us of ourChristian goal.
We talked about this severalepisodes back.
But our Christian goal, the*goalthat we should have as
Christians, is to be*habituallySpirit-filled.
To be*habitually Spiritual.
(13:31):
To*habitually let the HolySpirit be our main internal
motivator.
And if we could do those things,we would have Spiritual
maturity.
John (13:44):
And think about the difference that that would make.
So, let let's repeat that.
Our goal as Christians is to bemotivated by the Holy Spirit,
more and more, for longer andlonger periods of time, until
(14:05):
being fully motivated by theHoly Spirit becomes a*habit.
And that habit is what we call"Spiritual Maturity."
Owen (14:15):
Absolutely.
And see, John, this is why oneof my favorite Bible verses is
John 7:38 in the New Testament.
We've quoted it many times.
Not only in our book, but inthese episodes.
Because that's the verse whereJesus promises*us-- who is"us"?
All Christians-- where Jesuspromises*us that we'll have
(14:39):
"Rivers of Living Water" flowingup from within us.
*That's the inner motivation ofthe Holy Spirit.
That flood of Living Water isthe motivation of the Holy
Spirit within us.
And Jesus promised it to*everyChristian.
John (14:57):
And, Owen, as you well know, one of our motivations in
this podcast is...
and the book...
and really everything we'redoing...
it's just such a tragedy.
Just talking about this again,fresh today.
It just, it takes me back tothinking about what Christianity
has been reduced to.
(15:18):
We've reduced the most amazingthing, the most supernatural
thing that's ever happened, andwe've turned it into believing
some certain facts, and callingthat the"Christian life." And so
we see why we are in the dilemmathat we're in.
But opposed to that, this is whythe first Christians in the
(15:42):
First Century*were different.
They*were different from thenon-Christians.
They had this motivation ofsupernatural love, joy, peace,
and patience that non-Christiansdidn't have.
And non-Christians wanted it.
And so they became Christians toget it.
Owen (16:01):
Absolutely, specifically, totally.
Well, and see, we talked aboutthat in earlier episodes.
That's what early"evangelism"was.
Non- Christians seeing thiswonderful lifestyle in
Christians and wanting it.
And even if the Christian hasnever said a word.
(16:21):
Well, we're still talking thoughabout the"model." I'm calling it
the"model" that the EarlyChristians used to teach
Spiritual maturity.
We could, I guess in modernterms, call it the"process." So,
let's get to some specifictechniques that the early
Christians used to teach newChristians.
(16:44):
After all, they*did do someteaching, some role-playing,
with new Christians.
Even though the biggesttechnique they used was just
letting new Christians*watchthem as they lived each day.
But anyway, so let's talk aboutsome techniques for teaching new
(17:04):
Christians how to makeSpirit-filling a habit.
John (17:09):
Yeah, we said in previous episodes that Early Christians
had a*desire to beSpirit-filled.
And they*expected to be filled.
And then they*asked to befilled.
And then they constantly*prayedthe words, just simply,"Fill me,
Holy Spirit."
Owen (17:30):
Exactly.
In whatever language they werespeaking.
Four words.
"Fill me, Holy Spirit." Youknow, John, what we're saying
here is that in the FirstCentury they used what I call an
"Experience Model." They weremodeling*experience.
They weren't using a ClassroomModel, where you just lecture to
(17:53):
new Christians,(and) they sitpassively making notes.
Instead, the Early Christiansactively*wanted it,*expected it,
*asked for it, and*prayed for it.
John (18:05):
Yeah, imagine today! It's quite a contrast.
I can envision having aconversation with someone about
this, and they go,"Oh, is thissupposed to have an effect on my
life?
(Laughter.) Is this supposed toactually influence my behavior?"
And I think we should all stophere and ask ourselves a q
uestion, a very importantquestion:"How many times today
(18:30):
have we prayed to beSpirit-filled?
Or, how many times this week?
Or, have we*ever prayed it?
Owen (18:40):
Yeah, John.
That gives me chills.
You know, I bet you there are abunch of Christians out there in
Podcast Land that have nevereven*asked God to fill them with
the power of the Spirit.
Well, I call those disturbingquestions.
(There's) probably a strongerword.
But you know, we have what theycall some"soul-searching" to do,
(19:03):
don't we?
Because being Spirit-filled isthe*gate-- the G-A-T-E,"gate"--
to Spiritual maturity.
We could even say it this way: Spiritual growth is (19:12):
undefined
Spirit-filling, andSpirit-filling is Spiritual
growth.
The two terms are synonyms.
John (19:22):
Yeah, I also think that being*open...
this is a really big deal.
That being*open toSpirit-filling is a huge part of
the Early Christian Model ofSpiritual growth, too.
I don't think-- I think we canmake the case-- I don't think
(19:43):
some Christians are actually*open to it.
Owen (19:46):
Ouch! You know that's true, John.
I'm(chuckles) extremely sorry tohave to agree on that point.
But it's true, and it's right.
Because see, there's actuallymore to this Early Christian
"Experience Model" for Spiritualgrowth up to Spiritual maturity
than we realize at first.
Because-- think about it, let meslow down now-- because for
(20:10):
Christians to grow Spiritually,they must be open to
*supernatural experiences*.
And by that we mean they must beopen to, first, the*Spiritual
Fruit* that we talk about sooften.
Supernatural love, joy, peace,patience, and hope, and all of
(20:32):
the other positive emotions thatare flowing up from within us
into our brain from the HolySpirit.
But number two, even asimportant-- we haven't
emphasized this especially yetin these episodes-- but all
Christians must be open to the*Spiritual Gifts*.
(20:53):
And they're supernatural too.
Don't forget, God is*supernatural.
Everything about Him is*supernatural.
So the Spiritual gifts ofsupernatural dreams, visions,
prophecies, healings, andmiracles, and all the other
positive abilities (21:08):
These are *abilities from the Spirit.
And you know, this is truebecause if we aren't-- if we are
*not open to supernaturalexperiences, and as you said,
John, some Christians aren't--we'll be seriously hampered in
(21:29):
our Spiritual growth.
I dare say, I'm not sure youcould grow*without being open to
these experiences.
But here's the deal.
I think our friends out inPodcast Land*are open to
supernatural experiences.
And so actually, I don't thinkwe really have to talk about,
much more, a lack of openness.
John (21:52):
Yeah, and but there's one more thing about the Early
Christians, Owen, that tiesdirectly to this need to be open
to supernatural experiences.
And that's the fact that theywere called"disciples."
Owen (22:06):
Ahh.
Oh, that is so important.
How true John.
You know, think about this.
This is funny.
How many Christians*today wouldcall themselves"disciples?" I
don't hear many doing it.
(Chuckles.) But in the FirstCentury, if you go back and read
the New Testament,*everyChristian called himself or
herself a"disciple." Why isthat?
(22:28):
Well, that original Greek wordin the Bible simply means a
"learner," or a"student." Butyou know what?
I like a more moderntranslation.
I like to say that allChristians are"trainees."
(Repeats.) That may be acorporate word.
But I think it's a same*synonymwith a"student" or a"learner."
(22:52):
They're*trainees.
They must be willing tocontinuously learn new behavior
from the Holy Spirit.
John (23:03):
After all, I mean isn't that what Jesus actually
commanded?
He said go and make what?
Trainees! Right.
Apprentices, if you will.
So the"Experience Model" thatthe Early Christians used was a
complete model.
And I love to see it this way: They were open to learning new (23:22):
undefined
things.
You know, we call that being*teachable, I think.
(Laughter.) They wanted to learnnew things.
They expected to learn newthings.
They asked to learn new things.
(23:43):
They prayed to learn new things.
And they were*trainees of newthings.
Owen (23:51):
Wow, what a model.
Compare that to sitting andmaking notes today.
Well, and as we said, John, thesad thing about all that is that
many Christians do not-- repeat,do*not-- follow this type of
Experience Model today.
And frankly, that's why so manyChristians are not Spiritually
mature today, according toGallup(polls),
John (24:13):
Ohh, that's tragic.
But true.
In fact, it's horrible.
Owen (24:17):
Now, John, here's a rule for Spiritual growth that's both
Good News and bad news at thesame time.
It's one of the most importantrules about Spiritual growth and
Spiritual maturity in Christianhistory.
And here it is.
Hold on.
xThe more*Spirit-filled we are,the more we*understand Spiritual
(24:40):
things.
And the*less Spirit-filled weare, the*less we understand
Spiritual things.x How do weknow that?
We know it because the apostlePaul said it in First
Corinthians 2:14.
He said non-Christians can't--*cannot-- understand Spiritual
(25:01):
things.
In fact...
and boy, this hurts...
they think Spiritual things are*foolish.
And why is that?
Because Spiritual things canonly be Spiritually understood.
That is what Paul meant.
*Spiritual things can only be*Spiritually understood.
(25:22):
Well, what does that all mean,anyway?
Well here's what I think itmeans: Since non-Christians are
*not indwelled by the Spirit,they don't have the*ability.
It's not*in them to understandSpiritual things.
And here's a test.
Here's a little test we can alltake.
If you've ever tried to explainsomething Spiritual to a
(25:44):
non-Christian(chuckles), youprobably noticed that his or her
immediate reaction was probablyridicule.
Making fun of it.
And even being hostile towardit.
But watch this.
Hold on.
The very same rule that we'retalking about also applies to
(26:06):
*Christians.
(Repeats.) Because even thoughthey're indwelled by the Spirit,
if they only allow the Spirit tomotivate a teeny, weeny, small
part of their mind, then theyare not going to understand
Spiritual things any more than a*non-Christian.
John (26:29):
Hmm.
Wow.
That...
we just need to just marinate onthat a little bit, Owen.
I want to repeat it, though: non-Christians can't understand (26:35):
undefined
Spiritual things because theyare*not indwelled by the Spirit.
And that just makes sense,doesn't it.
And*infant Christians, if youtake that principle, they can't
(26:58):
understand Spiritual thingsbecause they're not letting the
Holy Spirit-- they are not*allowing Him-- to motivate
enough of their mind.
Owen (27:10):
So they almost end up like a non-Christian.
John (27:13):
Correct.
Right.
Which, as we've said countlesstimes, the evidence is
indisputable of that.
So, that's an incredible,incredible problem.
And it explains so much.
It explains so much the troublein today's Christianity.
(27:36):
And it also explains why there'ssuch a desperate need for
Spiritual*training today usingthis Early Christian Experience
Model, instead of a ClassroomModel.
Owen (27:50):
That's right.
I mean, these are...
just like you said, it's almostoverwhelming for us to sit here
and talk about these things.
And you know...
and I just want to go backagain, John.
We can never, ever forget thatpeople learn by*doing.
Not by*listening.
People learn by*experiencingthings.
Let me insert here sideways: We've talked so many times about (28:12):
undefined
(the fact that) I've been aChristian since I was a child of
11.
But I didn't know anything aboutChristianity.
Didn't understand the Bible.
Didn't understand Sunday school.
Didn't understand anything,until I was Spirit-filled for
the first time in my 30s.
(28:34):
So, I mean, I'm proof positiveof everything that we're saying.
So we don't learn by*readingabout things, and*listening
about things.
And that, I think that's one ofChris...
may be Christianity's*only bigshortcoming today: Is that so
many Christians are not*experiencing the supernatural
(28:55):
Fruit and the supernatural Giftsof the Spirit.
John (28:59):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, we can say that withcertainty.
The very first step though, inSpiritual growth, is to start
*experiencing the Fruit.
I'm not sure that people evenuse, or think about, their
Christian life as an*experience.
(29:20):
Or, that they're even supposedto experience*anything-- the
Fruit and the Gifts of theSpirit-- as fully as possible,
and as often as possible.
Owen (29:33):
That means that's Christianity.
It's not making notes.
It's living it.
Well, I mean, that's preciselytrue, John.
And so, now let's talk aboutsomething we've only mentioned
lightly in these episodes.
And that's the whole deal abouthow is it that you form a*new
habit*?
How do people form-- how toChristians form-- the*new habit*
(29:57):
of being Spirit-filled?
We already know that in order tobe Spirit-filled, Christians
must be open to it.
They must want it.
They must expect it.
They must ask for it.
Pray for it.
And be a trainee of it.
We know those things.
But, here's the trick.
How do you do all of thosethings automatically, without
(30:19):
thinking about them?
Let's talk about how to makethose things a*habit.
Because you don't want to haveto get up each morning, get a
clipboard off of a hook, and gothrough a checklist.
You want this to be automatic.
John (30:35):
Yeah, and that's important.
Because you know our habits, weall know, determine our success
or failure as Spirit-filledChristians.
We absolutely need to tell ourfriends how to form the*habit of
being Spirit-filled.
Owen (30:52):
Right, and let's remember *synonyms, John.
We've talked about that so oftenin these episodes.
Don't let Early Christiansynonyms confuse you.
Because the words"Spiritual,"and"Spirit-filled," and"Growing
Spiritually," are all synonyms.
They all mean the same thing.
They all refer to us beingmotivated by the inner Holy
(31:18):
Spirit.
John (31:19):
Totally true.
And we've talked from thebeginning about the importance
of recognizing synonyms in EarlyChristian writings.
And it helps us understandSpiritual maturity much quicker
if we recognize that all ofthese words are in fact
synonyms.
Owen (31:38):
Yes, indeedy.
Well, so here's what our friends...
this is all our friends need toknow about*forming a new habit*.
To form a new habit, we mustalways use the"21-90 Rule."
(Repeats.) And the 21-90 Rule,as researchers and scientists
use it, says this (31:58):
If we practice any new behavior-- and
Spirit-filling is a behavior--if we practice any new behavior
consistently for 21 days-- forthree weeks-- we'll have what
scientists call a"weak newhabit." And if we continue to
(32:20):
practice that new behavior foranother 90 days, we'll form what
they call a"new habit" that'sautomatic, unchangeable, and
permanent in our lifestyle.
John (32:34):
Hmm.
Isn't that interesting?
We're saying...
what we're saying, Owen-- makesure I'm hearing right-- is that
our friends (32:39):
We should start *practicing the new behavior of
Spirit-filling.
And when we use the 21-90 Ruleto make Spirit-filling a
permanent new habit...
since Spirit-filling is the keyto Spiritual maturity.
Owen (33:01):
Absolutely.
It couldn't be said better,John.
And remember, anybody can dothat.
In the First Century, evenchildren became Christians.
Anybody can do that.
But, here's one last tip that wewant to give our friends,
talking about Spirit-filling, sothey can understand it better.
Spirit-filling is like theocean's tides.
(33:23):
You know, I'm a Floridian, and Ilove the ocean.
Spirit-filling"ebbs and floods"in our minds like the ocean's
tides.
It's not permanent at any onelevel.
Spirit-filling is"cyclical" inus.
It forms"peaks and valleys" inour minds.
See, the Holy Spirit ebbs andflows in Christians as He
(33:48):
motivates them during the day tomeet their Spiritual needs.
And so, Spiritual motivationforms what scientists call a
"sine wave." S-I-N-E.
A sine wave.
You've seen one if you've everlooked at a heart monitor in a
hospital, or in a TV show aboutsomebody in the hospital.
(34:11):
That's that jagged line you seegoing across.
The Holy Spirit exists like thatin our mind.
And so that's why a Chris...
Christians feel*more Spiritualat some points during the day,
and*less Spiritual at otherpoints during the day.
So, no Christian feelsabsolutely*overwhelmingly
(34:32):
Spiritual 24/7.
John (34:35):
Right, and Owen, I just think that is vitally important
for our listeners to understand.
I know it has helped metremendously in my walk too-- to
know that the ebb and flow ofSpiritual motivation in a
Christian's mind is normal.
(34:56):
Okay?
It's normal, and it shouldn'tworry us.
Owen (35:01):
Yeah, yeah, people say to me,"I just don't*feel Spiritual
all day."(Laughter.) That'sokay.
The Holy Spirit didn't goanywhere.
He's going to be there as youneed Him.
Well, so John, let's slow downthen, and make another point.
Here's a question that I oftenget from Christians:"What does
(35:22):
being Spirit-filled feel like?"Or, to say that another way:
"What does having the Fruit ofthe Spirit feel like?"
John (35:32):
Wow.
I can't think of anotherquestion we could ask that's
more important that one.
Owen (35:37):
Nor can I, nor can I.
And now that we're talking about"feelings," we've arrived at a
huge problem in today'sChristianity.
John, I hope we can speakhonestly and openly here-- what
I call being"deathbed honest."
John (35:57):
And navigate through these waters.
(Laughter.)
Owen (36:00):
The problem is this
being Spirit-filled requiresChristians to express what we
could call"excessive humanemotions."(Repeats.) In other
words, to"prove" that they'reSpirit-filled, Christians must
(36:20):
express*excessive worldlyemotions*...
enthusiasm...
excitement.
And this problem is discussed onpages 155 and 156 of our book.
But in practical terms, whatthese denominations are teaching
their members(is) that to beSpirit-filled, you've got to be
(36:42):
loud, and boisterous, andinappropriate in your behavior
during congregational meetingsand congregational worship.
And as a result, these meetingsinclude such things as loud-- or
should I say in parentheses,deafening-- music(repeats)...
(37:03):
shouting...
wailing...
swaying...
fainting...
dancing in the aisles.
I've seen all of these things,visiting various congregations.
John (37:13):
Yeah, that's Right.
I t's s o interesting.
Because that's actually theexact*opposite of the behavior
that the Early Christians hadwhen they gathered.
Owen (37:25):
That's right.
And here's the bad news.
Here comes the bad headline.
When*non-Christians seeChristians acting with this kind
of excessive behavior, it*repelsthem.
Quite honestly, it*scares them.
And they go home and say...
and look in the mirror and say,"Whoa, if that's Spirit-filling,
(37:46):
I don't want any part of it."But look, they're turned off to
Spiritual growth-- often for therest of their lives, right?
And frankly, John, in myexperience in my travels
worldwide in Christian circles,this is one reason why so many
Christians are*notSpirit-filled.
(38:08):
They've seen things earlier intheir life that scared them away
from it.
John (38:14):
Wow.
I don't even know...
I think I'll just put my head onthe desk.
And what's so tragic is thatsuch people are*not seeing
Spirit-filling.
And they are*not seeingSpiritual maturity.
What they*are seeing is theexact*opposite of Spirit-filling
(38:36):
and Spiritual maturity.
Owen (38:38):
Totally.
The opposite.
But look.
In coming episodes of course,we're going to show our friends
exactly, precisely how to meet,and how to worship, like the
Early Christians did.
It's so easy.
It's so wonderful.
But right now, we're trying tobe clear about how Spiritual
(39:01):
behavior-- and"natural" behavior-- are*different from one
another.
We remember that"natural," inEarly Christian terminology,
meant activity that was like"unsaved" activity.
Non-Christian activity was"natural." How are those two
different?
Spiritual and natural?
(39:23):
We've already said thatSpirit-filling is"a little bit
of heaven on earth." But thinkabout this: Christians in heaven
*aren't wailing and fainting.
And wailing and fainting*aren'ttaught in Early Christian
history.
For example, when the first 120Christians ever to be
(39:46):
Spirit-filled in history werefilled on Pentecost morning,
*they didn't wail and faint.
John (39:53):
No, they didn't.
And actually, when Peter wasarrested and, you remember, he
was dragged before the HighPriest to be sentenced.
The record says that Peter wasSpirit-filled.
But it doesn't say that hewailed and fainted.
It says that the High Priest wasso astonished at Peter's peace,
(40:14):
his confidence, and his courageduring the trial, that he
*released Peter.
Owen (40:20):
See, look at that comparison there.
And that's exactly the point.
Spirit-filling gives us feelingsof peace, and confidence, and
courage, like the apostle Peter.
It doesn't give us feelings of*hysteria.
Any of the world's 4,000religions can give us*hysteria.
(40:44):
And frankly, many do.
But only filling by the HolySpirit can give us the
supernatural peace, confidence,and courage, that come directly
from the Throne Room of God inHeaven.
John (40:59):
Wow, we're on the right track.
But let's be even more specificabout what Spirit-filled
behavior is like.
That's the only way we're goingto be able to demonstrate-- to
show-- our friends exactly howSpirit-filling is different from
*excessive human emotions."
Owen (41:21):
Yeah, and here's a quick example of what you just said,
John, in Early Christianhistory: One night, Jesus
Himself gave a clear definitionof this*difference-- we're
talking about betweenSpirit-filled emotions and
excessive human emotions.
It happened when a powerfulleader in the city of Jerusalem
(41:45):
called Nicodemus("nick-uh-DEE'-muss") came to
Jesus late at night for a secretmeeting.
And what he wanted to know wasmore about the miracles that
Jesus was performing in thecity.
And during that fascinatingconversation, Jesus taught
Nicodemus an extremely importantSpiritual rule.
And here's what He taught him: xEmotions produced by the (42:06):
undefined
Selfish Human Nature are worldlyand prone to s in.
Flesh produces flesh, He said.
But, emotions produced by theHoly Spirit are Spiritual and
holy.
Spirit produces Spirit, Jesussaid.
John (42:29):
And never the twain shall meet.
(Laughter.)
Owen (42:32):
No, never the twain shall meet.
And those two sets of emotionsare as far apart as the East is
from the West.
But you know John, many peoplehave never stopped to think
about the fact that human nature*cannot produce Spiritual
(42:54):
emotions.
It's a physical impossibility.
And the opposite is also true.
The Holy Spirit*cannot produceworldly emotions.
That's also a physicalimpossibility.
John (43:11):
And that means that if we Christians are ever going to
have peace, and confidence, andcourage, in our lives like Peter
did at his trial before the HighPriest, we*cannot get it from
our human nature.
We can*only get it from theindwelling Holy Spirit.
Owen (43:33):
And you know, John.
I think that's one of thebiggest lessons that we don't
hear today.
I don't think I've ever heard asermon on that, for example.
I think people think, as theywatch TV and read popular books,
that somehow our human nature--our humanity-- can produce
Spiritual things.
(43:54):
I beg to differ.
It ain't so.
And so that's one of our biggestlessons.
Listen, our only chance atpeace, and healing, and hope, is
to get it from the indwellingHoly Spirit.
And so, let's talk about thepopular name for that.
What*is it that the Holy Spiritproduces in us?
(44:17):
We have a whole chapter on thatin the book.
I think it's Chapter 11.
But for now, let's remember thatthe Early Christians called
Spiritual emotions the"Fruit ofthe Spirit." That's why we keep
using that term.
I know it confuses people.
You think of"fruit" as a bowl ofapples.
But the Fruit of the Spirit inthe original Greek words of the
(44:40):
Bible, that means-- the"Fruit ofthe Spirit" means-- the emotions
produced in us by the*HolySpirit*.
Or you could say, the emotionsin us that are the*result that
come from the Holy Spirit.
John (44:59):
Yeah, that's true for sure.
The Early Christians you may...
we talked about it...
they said that many times.
And we quoted Paul's definitionof the"Fruit" earlier.
But let's quote it again.
Owen (45:11):
Yeah, let's do! It's worth reporting! Here again, this is
how Paul defines the"Fruit ofthe Spirit" in his letter to the
Galatian Christians.
The emotions that the indwellingHoly Spirit produces in us are:
Supernatural Love, Joy, Peace,Patience, Kindness, Goodness,
(45:34):
Faithfulness, Gentleness, andSelf- Control.
John (45:39):
And I'm sure our friends remember that definition.
And I'm sure they realize it'sone of the most important
definitions in C hristianity.
Owen (45:48):
Hmm.
It is, John.
And our friends need to noticesomething.
Have we noticed what is not--what is*not-- on Paul's list of
emotions from the Holy Spirit?
And we all should notice that.
Here they are.
I didn't read stress, fear,confusion, shame, mistakes,
(46:09):
misunderstandings, anythingnegative.
*None of that is produced by theHoly Spirit.
Those are produced in us by ourown Selfish Human Nature.
And that includes*excessivehuman emotions* in Christian
meetings.
John (46:28):
And that's why Jesus taught Nicodemus that everything
from our flesh is fleshy.
And everything from the HolySpirit is Spiritual.
Those two motivators areincredibly*different-- and the
*behaviors they create in us.
Owen (46:46):
Yeah.
And so John, to help usunderstand-- finally, one more
time-- the*difference betweenthese two motivators: Let me say
something that I often love tosay.
It's actually on page 133 of thebook.
But let's tell it to ourfriends.
And here it is (47:04):
xThe Holy Spirit is the greatest Gentleman in the
universe.
He never interrupts when we'retalking about something else, or
when we're doing something else.
He works by invitation.
(Repeats.)x
John (47:24):
Yeah.
That Owen, again, that's anotherone of those pivotal comments,
understandings, because the HolySpirit*is the greatest Gentlemen
in the universe.
Think about that.
He never makes us do anythingthat's embarrassing,
humiliating, or frightening.
(47:45):
And our listeners need to hearthat.
That's why we should never,never, fear being motivated by
the Holy Spirit within us.
We should never fear theSpiritual Fruit or Gifts.
Owen (48:03):
That's absolutely true, John.
And take a tip from me.
If you see anything scary andfrightening, or embarrassing, or
humiliating, at a Christianmeeting, here's a tip:"It ain't
from the Spirit." So, John,look.
As we approach the end of theepisode now, I think we should
(48:24):
be as precise as possible aboutwhat Spiritual maturity looks
and feels like.
Because being Spiritually mature-- it*does make you different.
You*feel different.
You*think different.
You*act different.
And that's a good thing.
As we said earlier, that's thereason Christianity spread in
(48:47):
the First Century.
Think about it.
A Spiritual movement, started in*one morning, by 120 people in a
little-known backwater city, ina little-known backwater
country, spread worldwide in 70years.
There was a reason for that.
And they didn't have TV andradio.
John (49:09):
(Chuckles.) Right.
And let's see how clearly we canmake a*contrast between the two
behaviors.
So let's, Owen, let's describewhat a Spiritually mature
Christian acts l ike.
Owen (49:23):
That's a good one.
And let's agree that Spirituallymature Christians can*look like
anybody else, as far as clothesand their facial expression, or
whatever-- their hair cut.
But, they're different fromother people only in their inner
feelings and their outerbehavior.
(49:44):
They have a peace, calmness,confidence, hope, and happiness,
that other people*don't have--even infant Christians don't
have.
Why?
Because it's coming from theindwelling Holy Spirit.
And that's not happening in anyother brand and form of people.
(50:05):
Owen, what about the flip sideof that?
Tell us about that.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, what is it thatSpiritually mature Christians
don't have--*don't have?
They*don't have all the negativeemotions and behavior that
non-Christians have and frankly,(that) some infant Christians
(50:25):
have.
They don't have hostility...
quarreling...
jealousy...
anger...
lust...
selfishness...
divisiveness...
gossip...
drug abuse...
all the other negative thingsthat we could sit here and name.
John (50:39):
Yeah.
Owen, I have to say personally,I think that's as clear a
description of Spiritualmaturity as we're going to get.
And it also tells us whySpiritual maturity is so needed
by others.
Who would*not want to beSpiritually mature, considering
(51:02):
its wonderful benefits?
Owen (51:07):
That's right, John.
Who wouldn't, who wouldn't?
And our friends need to remembernow, that Chapter 10 in the book
is titled:"The MatureChristian." And it explains, and
describes, and gives examples,of all of this.
And then also, it has a*diagramin it.
And we're including this diagramright now at about a point 51
(51:30):
minutes into the script.
But remember, it's also on page141 of the book.
And John, I'm looking at thatdiagram now.
We're all seeing it here in thescript.
And most of this diagram iscolored*white.
The whole left side of thechart, the side that represents
(51:51):
the indwelling Spirit, is*white.
But look at this.
That white color extends overmost of the*top circle-- the one
that represents the human mind.
That indicates that the HolySpirit is the*dominant motivator
in this Christian's mind, in thepicture here.
The Selfish Human Nature's beenpushed out of all but maybe 10
(52:15):
percent of the Christian's mind.
And look.
If we assume that this picture...
this Christian...
has made this picture a habit--a*habit-- then this Christian is
Spiritually mature, and isliving the Early Christian
Lifestyle of peace, healing, andhope, that we're talking about
(52:37):
in these episodes.
This is the*same lifestyle thatPaul-- you mentioned earlier,
John-- called"Walking in theSpirit." And it's the same
lifestyle that we call living"alittle bit of heaven here on
earth."
John (52:52):
Yeah.
That chart, Owen, representswhat all of us so desperately
need.
We need to wake up in themorning, and live through the
day,(and) go to bed at night,with this kind of peace,
healing, and hope, flooding upin us, straight from the Throne
Room of God in Heaven.
Owen (53:12):
Hallelujah.
Praises to the lamb.
Well, but John, here we are nowat the end of the episode.
Let's quickly summarizeeverything that we've said.
Because I think this is veryimportant for our friends out in
Podcast Land:*To understand themature Christian*.
John (53:32):
Yeah, it's vital.
I was thinking the same thing.
You know, we said at the top ofthe show today that Spiritual
maturity is simple, and yetcomplicated, at the same time.
Owen (53:44):
That's right.
(Chuckles.) So let's summarize*seven points for our friends to
remember as we sign off here: xFirst- Spiritual growth is (53:48):
undefined
learning how to beSpirit-filled.
Second- Being Spirit-filled isletting the Holy Spirit fill 51
percent or more of our mindswith the Fruit of the Spirit.
Third- The Fruit of the Spiritis supernatural Love, Peace,
(54:10):
Joy, Patience, and otherpositive emotions that are
flooding up within us from theindwelling Holy Spirit's
motivation inside us.
Fourth- These positive emotionsproduce...
that's what emotions do...
produce outer behavior ofsupernatural Love, Joy, Peace,
(54:31):
and Patience, and other positivebehaviors that are*unique to
Spirit-filled Christians.
Fifth- We learn how to beSpirit-filled by wanting it,
seeking it, and praying thedaily prayer--*all day, in fact
--"Fill me, Holy Spirit."Spiritual maturity, number Six
(54:54):
then- Is when that becomes ahabit.
And finally, number Seven- TheEarly Christian Lifestyle that
we keep talking about is beingSpiritually mature, and that
means being habituallySpirit-filled.
John (55:11):
Wow.
I Love it.
Owen (55:15):
Well.
So, I hate to close this one,John.
But let's do close by remindingour friends in Podcast Land to
pray these four words every day,all day.
Here they are again:"Fill me,Holy Spirit...
Fill me, Holy Spirit." Glory toGod.
John (55:35):
Hmm.
That's right.
And our friends out in PodcastLand should also remember, we
want to remind you, that this isEpisode 17.
And that a script and recording...
there's a*lot in this episode...
it's there on our website at: goSCpod.com. (55:48):
undefined
That's G-O-S-C-P-O-D.com.
Owen (55:58):
That's right.
Indeed they are, John.
Well, and now this is Owen Allen...
John (56:04):
...
and this is John Shields, withour producer, Shannon Wolfe...
Owen (56:08):
...
saying (56:08):
May the God of our fathers bless you, and keep you,
and guide you, and protect you,until we meet again.
Owen and John (56:31):
Owen and John end the episode.
John Shields opens the episode by saying
friends! This is Episode 17 inour bi-weekly series of"Saving
Christianity." We're coming toyou every-other-Tuesday from
(00:23):
Christian Family Online.
And I'm your host, John Shields.
And welcome to today's podcast.
In the two previous episodes,you may recall Episodes 15 and
16, we were talking about"TheGrowing Christian" and"The
Spirit-filling Crisis"-- twoextremely important topics.
(00:48):
We talked about how Christiansgrow Spiritually by being
Spirit-filled.
And we also talked about thereasons why many Christians
today are*not Spirit-filled, andare*not growing Spiritually.
In those two episodes, we alsosaid that the mark and sign of
(01:09):
Christians when they*areSpirit-filled is that they have
what the Early Christians calledthe"Fruit of the Spirit." Well,
that means that when Christiansare Spirit-filled, they will
have an outer behavior ofsupernatural love...
and joy...
and peace...
(01:29):
and patience that non-Christians*can't have, and that infant
Christians*don't have.
In summary, we said whenChristians are Spirit-filled,
they have"a little bit of heavenhere on earth." And, my! Don't
we need some of that! So, herewe are now in Episode 17.
(01:50):
And the title of this episodeis:"The Mature Christian."
(Repeats.) And in this episode,we're going to talk about how
Christians can makeSpirit-filling a daily habit.
Wow.
Think about that.
In other words, how we canbecome Spiritually mature, and
(02:13):
live what we call"The EarlyChristian Lifestyle." Well, I'm
anxious to get into that.
But before we start, let'sintroduce our c o-host, O wen
Allen.
Welcome, Owen, to Episode 17.
Owen (02:27):
Well, thank you, John.
"Hello" to you, and to ourintrepid producer, Shannon.
And a big"hello" to all of ourfriends out in Podcast Land.
I'm(chuckles) really lookingforward to this episode because
the subject of Spiritualmaturity, I'm sad to say, John
and Shannon, is very oftenmisunderstood in today's
(02:49):
Christianity.
And by the way, we are inChapter 10 of the book now,
*Saving Christianity*.
And the title of that chapter isin fact,"The Mature Christian."
We'll be skimming a few ideasoff the top here today.
But I'm hopeful that all of ourfriends will actually go and
read that full chapterthoughtfully.
(03:10):
But John, before we start, letme mention two important ideas
that we haven't talked about forseveral weeks.
First of all, we need toremember that this is a"serial"
podcast,(as) technical peoplecall it.
Our episodes are*sequential, andso they build on one another.
(03:34):
And if any of our friends havenot done so yet, they would
really benefit from going backand listening to the earlier
episodes.
That'll help them betterunderstand what we're saying at
this point in this podcast.
But secondly, number two, all ofour episodes are on our website
at goSCpod.com-- both the audiosand the transcripts.
(04:00):
And they'll remember, we talkedabout this at one time, if our
friends will*read the episodesas well as*listening to them,
they'll be using 90% of theirlearning ability to absorb these
ideas and principles.
And we urge all of our friendsto do that.
But right now, let's continuewith Episode 17.
(04:25):
And to understand Spiritualmaturity-- or, dare I say, the
lack of it-- we need to thinkabout the fact that today's
Christianity is based on what wecould call a"Classroom Model"
(repeats), that traces back tothe Roman emperor Constantine in
the Four Century.
What that means is, in practicaleveryday terms, is in most
(04:51):
congregations today, the memberssit quietly with paper and
pencil, or iPad, or iPhone, orlaptop, and they make notes,
while their Sunday schoolteacher or pastor teaches them
from a podium or a pulpit.
You can see that's a"ClassroomModel" for learning Spiritual
(05:12):
maturity.
And of course, we've talkedabout it many times, the Gallup
polls show that does*not work,as we've explained in earlier
episodes.
So, in this episode, we want toemphasize three things-- three
things about Spiritual maturity-- as a platform for this whole
(05:35):
episode.
First (05:35):
People learn by*doing, not by listening.
Second (05:40):
Why is that important?
Many Christians were illiteratein t he First Century.
Only about 10% of the populationwas polished and functionally
literate.
Most people could not read andwrite.
(06:01):
And what does that mean?
They*couldn't listen and makenotes because they couldn't read
and write.
So today's model wouldn't work.
But number three (06:09):
Even if they *had been able to read and
write, there were no papers,pencils, iPads, iPhones, and
laptops for them to use.
So what are we saying?
We're saying that the"ClassroomModel" didn't...
does not work.
And does not even apply toSpiritual growth.
(06:30):
So these facts, what d o theytell us?
They tell us that since theEarly Christians*did grow
Spiritually, but many Christianstoday*don't grow Spiritually,
then our congregations today areusing the*wrong model, aren't
(06:50):
they.
They're doing something wrong.
They're using that"ClassroomModel," instead of what we call
the Early Christian Model.
So, in today's episode, we aregoing to tell our friends how to
use the Early Christian Modelfor Spiritual growth.
John (07:10):
Yeah.
Owen, that's exactly right.
And so much can be said aboutthis, beyond even our time today
in our podcast.
And I see the"Classroom Model"being used every day in
Christian radio, television,(and) worship services.
So in this episode, we need totell our friends*how-- very
(07:30):
important-- the Early ChristianModel is*different, and also why
it's so much more*efficient thantoday's"Classroom Model."
Owen (07:43):
Hmm.
Those are great points, John.
And also I'm thinking whiledoing that, let's try to be as
clear and as simple about all ofthis as we can.
But let's start by remembering aplatform definition from a
previous episode.
And here's that definition.
"Spiritual Growth." What is it?
(08:04):
xSpiritual growth is the processof increasing both the*amount,
and the*time, that the HolySpirit motivates us during the
day.x Now let's repeat thatquickly.
"Spiritual Growth" is thisdefinition: Spiritual Growth is
the process of increasing boththe*amount and the*time that the
(08:28):
Holy Spirit motivates us duringthe day.
John (08:31):
Yeah.
We're talking about real time,real life, real transformation.
It's great.
That means we need a model thatallows, if you will, the Holy
Spirit(to) motivate us as muchas possible during the day.
Because Spirit-filling-- thinkabout this-- is when the Holy
(08:56):
Spirit is motivating 51percentor more of our mind during the
day.
Owen (09:05):
Yeah, let's tie this even further back, John, say it a
little different way.
Way back in Episode 15, we saidthat Spiritual growth is
increasing our*Spiritualbehavior* during the day.
See how that's the same thing.
Increasing our*Spiritualbehavior* during the day, the
way you just defined it John.
(09:26):
And way back there we said thatSpiritual behavior was when the
indwelling Holy Spirit producesin us an outer behavior of
supernatural-- and we're goingto come back to that word--
*supernatural love, joy, peace,patience, kindness, goodness,
(09:48):
faithfulness, gentleness, andself control.
*Supernatural!
John (09:52):
Yeah, and so we're saying that the mark and sign of a
Spirit-filled Christian is the*extent to which, and the period
of*time for which, he or she hasthis supernatural love, joy,
peace, and patience working,operating in(his or her) life.
Owen (10:16):
Absolutely, totally.
I mean, think about that.
This is fantastic stuff here.
So, but it's important to noticein what you just said, John,
that Spirit-filling happens-- Idon't like this term, but it's
the only one I can think of--Spirit-filling happens on a
"sliding scale." Spirit-fillingis*not a One-Time experience, as
(10:42):
some people teach.
It's*not an Either-Or experience-- either you have it or you
don't-- as some people teach.
It's a Degree-to-Whichexperience.
Every Christian can, and should,be Spirit-filled.
But every Christian is beingmotivated, influenced, to*some
(11:04):
extent* on that"sliding scale"by the indwelling power of the
Holy Spirit.
It's the Degree-to-Which you,and I, and Shannon, and the rest
of us, have that*supernaturallove, peace, and joy, during the
day.
John (11:20):
Yeah, sure.
And as we said, that's simple,but complicated at the same
time.
So let's repeat the process.
How does Spirit-filling work forChristians?
Owen (11:33):
Okay, here we go.
Let's spell it out.
And we said this back in Episode15, we said that the Holy Spirit
happens inside every Christianand two different ways.
And here are those two ways: First, He operates in us to some (11:47):
undefined
*amount.
The Spirit can motivate ourminds in any amount from zero to
potentially a hundred percent,during the day.
But we said that when Hismotivation within us passes the
(12:07):
51percent mark, we can say thatwe're legally"Spirit-filled."
But secondly, that could happenfor a couple of seconds in a 24
hour day-- and I dare say it*does-- but what good is that?
So the second is*time.
When the Spirit is motivatingour minds 51 percent of the*time
(12:28):
during the day, we could saythat we're living the Early
Christian Lifestyle that we talkabout.
And when that lifestyle becomesa*habit...
hang on...
you can say that we are"Spiritually Mature."
John (12:42):
And we read that over and over in the New Testament, in
terms like,"Walk in the Spirit"...
"Keep in step with the Spirit."So, as Christians, we need to
focus on two things (12:53):
First, how *much of our mind is being
motivated by the Holy Spiritduring the day?
And second, how*long during theday is that motivation Lasting?
Owen (13:07):
Yeah, I mean what could be more simple, John?
And yet we try to make it socomplicated.
And this reminds us of ourChristian goal.
We talked about this severalepisodes back.
But our Christian goal, the*goalthat we should have as
Christians, is to be*habituallySpirit-filled.
To be*habitually Spiritual.
(13:31):
To*habitually let the HolySpirit be our main internal
motivator.
And if we could do those things,we would have Spiritual
maturity.
John (13:44):
And think about the difference that that would make.
So, let let's repeat that.
Our goal as Christians is to bemotivated by the Holy Spirit,
more and more, for longer andlonger periods of time, until
(14:05):
being fully motivated by theHoly Spirit becomes a*habit.
And that habit is what we call"Spiritual Maturity."
Owen (14:15):
Absolutely.
And see, John, this is why oneof my favorite Bible verses is
John 7:38 in the New Testament.
We've quoted it many times.
Not only in our book, but inthese episodes.
Because that's the verse whereJesus promises*us-- who is"us"?
All Christians-- where Jesuspromises*us that we'll have
(14:39):
"Rivers of Living Water" flowingup from within us.
*That's the inner motivation ofthe Holy Spirit.
That flood of Living Water isthe motivation of the Holy
Spirit within us.
And Jesus promised it to*everyChristian.
John (14:57):
And, Owen, as you well know, one of our motivations in
this podcast is...
and the book...
and really everything we'redoing...
it's just such a tragedy.
Just talking about this again,fresh today.
It just, it takes me back tothinking about what Christianity
has been reduced to.
(15:18):
We've reduced the most amazingthing, the most supernatural
thing that's ever happened, andwe've turned it into believing
some certain facts, and callingthat the"Christian life." And so
we see why we are in the dilemmathat we're in.
But opposed to that, this is whythe first Christians in the
(15:42):
First Century*were different.
They*were different from thenon-Christians.
They had this motivation ofsupernatural love, joy, peace,
and patience that non-Christiansdidn't have.
And non-Christians wanted it.
And so they became Christians toget it.
Owen (16:01):
Absolutely, specifically, totally.
Well, and see, we talked aboutthat in earlier episodes.
That's what early"evangelism"was.
Non- Christians seeing thiswonderful lifestyle in
Christians and wanting it.
And even if the Christian hasnever said a word.
(16:21):
Well, we're still talking thoughabout the"model." I'm calling it
the"model" that the EarlyChristians used to teach
Spiritual maturity.
We could, I guess in modernterms, call it the"process." So,
let's get to some specifictechniques that the early
Christians used to teach newChristians.
(16:44):
After all, they*did do someteaching, some role-playing,
with new Christians.
Even though the biggesttechnique they used was just
letting new Christians*watchthem as they lived each day.
But anyway, so let's talk aboutsome techniques for teaching new
(17:04):
Christians how to makeSpirit-filling a habit.
John (17:09):
Yeah, we said in previous episodes that Early Christians
had a*desire to beSpirit-filled.
And they*expected to be filled.
And then they*asked to befilled.
And then they constantly*prayedthe words, just simply,"Fill me,
Holy Spirit."
Owen (17:30):
Exactly.
In whatever language they werespeaking.
Four words.
"Fill me, Holy Spirit." Youknow, John, what we're saying
here is that in the FirstCentury they used what I call an
"Experience Model." They weremodeling*experience.
They weren't using a ClassroomModel, where you just lecture to
(17:53):
new Christians,(and) they sitpassively making notes.
Instead, the Early Christiansactively*wanted it,*expected it,
*asked for it, and*prayed for it.
John (18:05):
Yeah, imagine today! It's quite a contrast.
I can envision having aconversation with someone about
this, and they go,"Oh, is thissupposed to have an effect on my
life?
(Laughter.) Is this supposed toactually influence my behavior?"
And I think we should all stophere and ask ourselves a q
uestion, a very importantquestion:"How many times today
(18:30):
have we prayed to beSpirit-filled?
Or, how many times this week?
Or, have we*ever prayed it?
Owen (18:40):
Yeah, John.
That gives me chills.
You know, I bet you there are abunch of Christians out there in
Podcast Land that have nevereven*asked God to fill them with
the power of the Spirit.
Well, I call those disturbingquestions.
(There's) probably a strongerword.
But you know, we have what theycall some"soul-searching" to do,
(19:03):
don't we?
Because being Spirit-filled isthe*gate-- the G-A-T-E,"gate"--
to Spiritual maturity.
We could even say it this way: Spiritual growth is (19:12):
undefined
Spirit-filling, andSpirit-filling is Spiritual
growth.
The two terms are synonyms.
John (19:22):
Yeah, I also think that being*open...
this is a really big deal.
That being*open toSpirit-filling is a huge part of
the Early Christian Model ofSpiritual growth, too.
I don't think-- I think we canmake the case-- I don't think
(19:43):
some Christians are actually*open to it.
Owen (19:46):
Ouch! You know that's true, John.
I'm(chuckles) extremely sorry tohave to agree on that point.
But it's true, and it's right.
Because see, there's actuallymore to this Early Christian
"Experience Model" for Spiritualgrowth up to Spiritual maturity
than we realize at first.
Because-- think about it, let meslow down now-- because for
(20:10):
Christians to grow Spiritually,they must be open to
*supernatural experiences*.
And by that we mean they must beopen to, first, the*Spiritual
Fruit* that we talk about sooften.
Supernatural love, joy, peace,patience, and hope, and all of
(20:32):
the other positive emotions thatare flowing up from within us
into our brain from the HolySpirit.
But number two, even asimportant-- we haven't
emphasized this especially yetin these episodes-- but all
Christians must be open to the*Spiritual Gifts*.
(20:53):
And they're supernatural too.
Don't forget, God is*supernatural.
Everything about Him is*supernatural.
So the Spiritual gifts ofsupernatural dreams, visions,
prophecies, healings, andmiracles, and all the other
positive abilities (21:08):
These are *abilities from the Spirit.
And you know, this is truebecause if we aren't-- if we are
*not open to supernaturalexperiences, and as you said,
John, some Christians aren't--we'll be seriously hampered in
(21:29):
our Spiritual growth.
I dare say, I'm not sure youcould grow*without being open to
these experiences.
But here's the deal.
I think our friends out inPodcast Land*are open to
supernatural experiences.
And so actually, I don't thinkwe really have to talk about,
much more, a lack of openness.
John (21:52):
Yeah, and but there's one more thing about the Early
Christians, Owen, that tiesdirectly to this need to be open
to supernatural experiences.
And that's the fact that theywere called"disciples."
Owen (22:06):
Ahh.
Oh, that is so important.
How true John.
You know, think about this.
This is funny.
How many Christians*today wouldcall themselves"disciples?" I
don't hear many doing it.
(Chuckles.) But in the FirstCentury, if you go back and read
the New Testament,*everyChristian called himself or
herself a"disciple." Why isthat?
(22:28):
Well, that original Greek wordin the Bible simply means a
"learner," or a"student." Butyou know what?
I like a more moderntranslation.
I like to say that allChristians are"trainees."
(Repeats.) That may be acorporate word.
But I think it's a same*synonymwith a"student" or a"learner."
(22:52):
They're*trainees.
They must be willing tocontinuously learn new behavior
from the Holy Spirit.
John (23:03):
After all, I mean isn't that what Jesus actually
commanded?
He said go and make what?
Trainees! Right.
Apprentices, if you will.
So the"Experience Model" thatthe Early Christians used was a
complete model.
And I love to see it this way: They were open to learning new (23:22):
undefined
things.
You know, we call that being*teachable, I think.
(Laughter.) They wanted to learnnew things.
They expected to learn newthings.
They asked to learn new things.
(23:43):
They prayed to learn new things.
And they were*trainees of newthings.
Owen (23:51):
Wow, what a model.
Compare that to sitting andmaking notes today.
Well, and as we said, John, thesad thing about all that is that
many Christians do not-- repeat,do*not-- follow this type of
Experience Model today.
And frankly, that's why so manyChristians are not Spiritually
mature today, according toGallup(polls),
John (24:13):
Ohh, that's tragic.
But true.
In fact, it's horrible.
Owen (24:17):
Now, John, here's a rule for Spiritual growth that's both
Good News and bad news at thesame time.
It's one of the most importantrules about Spiritual growth and
Spiritual maturity in Christianhistory.
And here it is.
Hold on.
xThe more*Spirit-filled we are,the more we*understand Spiritual
(24:40):
things.
And the*less Spirit-filled weare, the*less we understand
Spiritual things.x How do weknow that?
We know it because the apostlePaul said it in First
Corinthians 2:14.
He said non-Christians can't--*cannot-- understand Spiritual
(25:01):
things.
In fact...
and boy, this hurts...
they think Spiritual things are*foolish.
And why is that?
Because Spiritual things canonly be Spiritually understood.
That is what Paul meant.
*Spiritual things can only be*Spiritually understood.
(25:22):
Well, what does that all mean,anyway?
Well here's what I think itmeans: Since non-Christians are
*not indwelled by the Spirit,they don't have the*ability.
It's not*in them to understandSpiritual things.
And here's a test.
Here's a little test we can alltake.
If you've ever tried to explainsomething Spiritual to a
(25:44):
non-Christian(chuckles), youprobably noticed that his or her
immediate reaction was probablyridicule.
Making fun of it.
And even being hostile towardit.
But watch this.
Hold on.
The very same rule that we'retalking about also applies to
(26:06):
*Christians.
(Repeats.) Because even thoughthey're indwelled by the Spirit,
if they only allow the Spirit tomotivate a teeny, weeny, small
part of their mind, then theyare not going to understand
Spiritual things any more than a*non-Christian.
John (26:29):
Hmm.
Wow.
That...
we just need to just marinate onthat a little bit, Owen.
I want to repeat it, though: non-Christians can't understand (26:35):
undefined
Spiritual things because theyare*not indwelled by the Spirit.
And that just makes sense,doesn't it.
And*infant Christians, if youtake that principle, they can't
(26:58):
understand Spiritual thingsbecause they're not letting the
Holy Spirit-- they are not*allowing Him-- to motivate
enough of their mind.
Owen (27:10):
So they almost end up like a non-Christian.
John (27:13):
Correct.
Right.
Which, as we've said countlesstimes, the evidence is
indisputable of that.
So, that's an incredible,incredible problem.
And it explains so much.
It explains so much the troublein today's Christianity.
(27:36):
And it also explains why there'ssuch a desperate need for
Spiritual*training today usingthis Early Christian Experience
Model, instead of a ClassroomModel.
Owen (27:50):
That's right.
I mean, these are...
just like you said, it's almostoverwhelming for us to sit here
and talk about these things.
And you know...
and I just want to go backagain, John.
We can never, ever forget thatpeople learn by*doing.
Not by*listening.
People learn by*experiencingthings.
Let me insert here sideways: We've talked so many times about (28:12):
undefined
(the fact that) I've been aChristian since I was a child of
11.
But I didn't know anything aboutChristianity.
Didn't understand the Bible.
Didn't understand Sunday school.
Didn't understand anything,until I was Spirit-filled for
the first time in my 30s.
(28:34):
So, I mean, I'm proof positiveof everything that we're saying.
So we don't learn by*readingabout things, and*listening
about things.
And that, I think that's one ofChris...
may be Christianity's*only bigshortcoming today: Is that so
many Christians are not*experiencing the supernatural
(28:55):
Fruit and the supernatural Giftsof the Spirit.
John (28:59):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, we can say that withcertainty.
The very first step though, inSpiritual growth, is to start
*experiencing the Fruit.
I'm not sure that people evenuse, or think about, their
Christian life as an*experience.
(29:20):
Or, that they're even supposedto experience*anything-- the
Fruit and the Gifts of theSpirit-- as fully as possible,
and as often as possible.
Owen (29:33):
That means that's Christianity.
It's not making notes.
It's living it.
Well, I mean, that's preciselytrue, John.
And so, now let's talk aboutsomething we've only mentioned
lightly in these episodes.
And that's the whole deal abouthow is it that you form a*new
habit*?
How do people form-- how toChristians form-- the*new habit*
(29:57):
of being Spirit-filled?
We already know that in order tobe Spirit-filled, Christians
must be open to it.
They must want it.
They must expect it.
They must ask for it.
Pray for it.
And be a trainee of it.
We know those things.
But, here's the trick.
How do you do all of thosethings automatically, without
(30:19):
thinking about them?
Let's talk about how to makethose things a*habit.
Because you don't want to haveto get up each morning, get a
clipboard off of a hook, and gothrough a checklist.
You want this to be automatic.
John (30:35):
Yeah, and that's important.
Because you know our habits, weall know, determine our success
or failure as Spirit-filledChristians.
We absolutely need to tell ourfriends how to form the*habit of
being Spirit-filled.
Owen (30:52):
Right, and let's remember *synonyms, John.
We've talked about that so oftenin these episodes.
Don't let Early Christiansynonyms confuse you.
Because the words"Spiritual,"and"Spirit-filled," and"Growing
Spiritually," are all synonyms.
They all mean the same thing.
They all refer to us beingmotivated by the inner Holy
(31:18):
Spirit.
John (31:19):
Totally true.
And we've talked from thebeginning about the importance
of recognizing synonyms in EarlyChristian writings.
And it helps us understandSpiritual maturity much quicker
if we recognize that all ofthese words are in fact
synonyms.
Owen (31:38):
Yes, indeedy.
Well, so here's what our friends...
this is all our friends need toknow about*forming a new habit*.
To form a new habit, we mustalways use the"21-90 Rule."
(Repeats.) And the 21-90 Rule,as researchers and scientists
use it, says this (31:58):
If we practice any new behavior-- and
Spirit-filling is a behavior--if we practice any new behavior
consistently for 21 days-- forthree weeks-- we'll have what
scientists call a"weak newhabit." And if we continue to
(32:20):
practice that new behavior foranother 90 days, we'll form what
they call a"new habit" that'sautomatic, unchangeable, and
permanent in our lifestyle.
John (32:34):
Hmm.
Isn't that interesting?
We're saying...
what we're saying, Owen-- makesure I'm hearing right-- is that
our friends (32:39):
We should start *practicing the new behavior of
Spirit-filling.
And when we use the 21-90 Ruleto make Spirit-filling a
permanent new habit...
since Spirit-filling is the keyto Spiritual maturity.
Owen (33:01):
Absolutely.
It couldn't be said better,John.
And remember, anybody can dothat.
In the First Century, evenchildren became Christians.
Anybody can do that.
But, here's one last tip that wewant to give our friends,
talking about Spirit-filling, sothey can understand it better.
Spirit-filling is like theocean's tides.
(33:23):
You know, I'm a Floridian, and Ilove the ocean.
Spirit-filling"ebbs and floods"in our minds like the ocean's
tides.
It's not permanent at any onelevel.
Spirit-filling is"cyclical" inus.
It forms"peaks and valleys" inour minds.
See, the Holy Spirit ebbs andflows in Christians as He
(33:48):
motivates them during the day tomeet their Spiritual needs.
And so, Spiritual motivationforms what scientists call a
"sine wave." S-I-N-E.
A sine wave.
You've seen one if you've everlooked at a heart monitor in a
hospital, or in a TV show aboutsomebody in the hospital.
(34:11):
That's that jagged line you seegoing across.
The Holy Spirit exists like thatin our mind.
And so that's why a Chris...
Christians feel*more Spiritualat some points during the day,
and*less Spiritual at otherpoints during the day.
So, no Christian feelsabsolutely*overwhelmingly
(34:32):
Spiritual 24/7.
John (34:35):
Right, and Owen, I just think that is vitally important
for our listeners to understand.
I know it has helped metremendously in my walk too-- to
know that the ebb and flow ofSpiritual motivation in a
Christian's mind is normal.
(34:56):
Okay?
It's normal, and it shouldn'tworry us.
Owen (35:01):
Yeah, yeah, people say to me,"I just don't*feel Spiritual
all day."(Laughter.) That'sokay.
The Holy Spirit didn't goanywhere.
He's going to be there as youneed Him.
Well, so John, let's slow downthen, and make another point.
Here's a question that I oftenget from Christians:"What does
(35:22):
being Spirit-filled feel like?"Or, to say that another way:
"What does having the Fruit ofthe Spirit feel like?"
John (35:32):
Wow.
I can't think of anotherquestion we could ask that's
more important that one.
Owen (35:37):
Nor can I, nor can I.
And now that we're talking about"feelings," we've arrived at a
huge problem in today'sChristianity.
John, I hope we can speakhonestly and openly here-- what
I call being"deathbed honest."
John (35:57):
And navigate through these waters.
(Laughter.)
Owen (36:00):
The problem is this
being Spirit-filled requiresChristians to express what we
could call"excessive humanemotions."(Repeats.) In other
words, to"prove" that they'reSpirit-filled, Christians must
(36:20):
express*excessive worldlyemotions*...
enthusiasm...
excitement.
And this problem is discussed onpages 155 and 156 of our book.
But in practical terms, whatthese denominations are teaching
their members(is) that to beSpirit-filled, you've got to be
(36:42):
loud, and boisterous, andinappropriate in your behavior
during congregational meetingsand congregational worship.
And as a result, these meetingsinclude such things as loud-- or
should I say in parentheses,deafening-- music(repeats)...
(37:03):
shouting...
wailing...
swaying...
fainting...
dancing in the aisles.
I've seen all of these things,visiting various congregations.
John (37:13):
Yeah, that's Right.
I t's s o interesting.
Because that's actually theexact*opposite of the behavior
that the Early Christians hadwhen they gathered.
Owen (37:25):
That's right.
And here's the bad news.
Here comes the bad headline.
When*non-Christians seeChristians acting with this kind
of excessive behavior, it*repelsthem.
Quite honestly, it*scares them.
And they go home and say...
and look in the mirror and say,"Whoa, if that's Spirit-filling,
(37:46):
I don't want any part of it."But look, they're turned off to
Spiritual growth-- often for therest of their lives, right?
And frankly, John, in myexperience in my travels
worldwide in Christian circles,this is one reason why so many
Christians are*notSpirit-filled.
(38:08):
They've seen things earlier intheir life that scared them away
from it.
John (38:14):
Wow.
I don't even know...
I think I'll just put my head onthe desk.
And what's so tragic is thatsuch people are*not seeing
Spirit-filling.
And they are*not seeingSpiritual maturity.
What they*are seeing is theexact*opposite of Spirit-filling
(38:36):
and Spiritual maturity.
Owen (38:38):
Totally.
The opposite.
But look.
In coming episodes of course,we're going to show our friends
exactly, precisely how to meet,and how to worship, like the
Early Christians did.
It's so easy.
It's so wonderful.
But right now, we're trying tobe clear about how Spiritual
(39:01):
behavior-- and"natural" behavior-- are*different from one
another.
We remember that"natural," inEarly Christian terminology,
meant activity that was like"unsaved" activity.
Non-Christian activity was"natural." How are those two
different?
Spiritual and natural?
(39:23):
We've already said thatSpirit-filling is"a little bit
of heaven on earth." But thinkabout this: Christians in heaven
*aren't wailing and fainting.
And wailing and fainting*aren'ttaught in Early Christian
history.
For example, when the first 120Christians ever to be
(39:46):
Spirit-filled in history werefilled on Pentecost morning,
*they didn't wail and faint.
John (39:53):
No, they didn't.
And actually, when Peter wasarrested and, you remember, he
was dragged before the HighPriest to be sentenced.
The record says that Peter wasSpirit-filled.
But it doesn't say that hewailed and fainted.
It says that the High Priest wasso astonished at Peter's peace,
(40:14):
his confidence, and his courageduring the trial, that he
*released Peter.
Owen (40:20):
See, look at that comparison there.
And that's exactly the point.
Spirit-filling gives us feelingsof peace, and confidence, and
courage, like the apostle Peter.
It doesn't give us feelings of*hysteria.
Any of the world's 4,000religions can give us*hysteria.
(40:44):
And frankly, many do.
But only filling by the HolySpirit can give us the
supernatural peace, confidence,and courage, that come directly
from the Throne Room of God inHeaven.
John (40:59):
Wow, we're on the right track.
But let's be even more specificabout what Spirit-filled
behavior is like.
That's the only way we're goingto be able to demonstrate-- to
show-- our friends exactly howSpirit-filling is different from
*excessive human emotions."
Owen (41:21):
Yeah, and here's a quick example of what you just said,
John, in Early Christianhistory: One night, Jesus
Himself gave a clear definitionof this*difference-- we're
talking about betweenSpirit-filled emotions and
excessive human emotions.
It happened when a powerfulleader in the city of Jerusalem
(41:45):
called Nicodemus("nick-uh-DEE'-muss") came to
Jesus late at night for a secretmeeting.
And what he wanted to know wasmore about the miracles that
Jesus was performing in thecity.
And during that fascinatingconversation, Jesus taught
Nicodemus an extremely importantSpiritual rule.
And here's what He taught him: xEmotions produced by the (42:06):
undefined
Selfish Human Nature are worldlyand prone to s in.
Flesh produces flesh, He said.
But, emotions produced by theHoly Spirit are Spiritual and
holy.
Spirit produces Spirit, Jesussaid.
John (42:29):
And never the twain shall meet.
(Laughter.)
Owen (42:32):
No, never the twain shall meet.
And those two sets of emotionsare as far apart as the East is
from the West.
But you know John, many peoplehave never stopped to think
about the fact that human nature*cannot produce Spiritual
(42:54):
emotions.
It's a physical impossibility.
And the opposite is also true.
The Holy Spirit*cannot produceworldly emotions.
That's also a physicalimpossibility.
John (43:11):
And that means that if we Christians are ever going to
have peace, and confidence, andcourage, in our lives like Peter
did at his trial before the HighPriest, we*cannot get it from
our human nature.
We can*only get it from theindwelling Holy Spirit.
Owen (43:33):
And you know, John.
I think that's one of thebiggest lessons that we don't
hear today.
I don't think I've ever heard asermon on that, for example.
I think people think, as theywatch TV and read popular books,
that somehow our human nature--our humanity-- can produce
Spiritual things.
(43:54):
I beg to differ.
It ain't so.
And so that's one of our biggestlessons.
Listen, our only chance atpeace, and healing, and hope, is
to get it from the indwellingHoly Spirit.
And so, let's talk about thepopular name for that.
What*is it that the Holy Spiritproduces in us?
(44:17):
We have a whole chapter on thatin the book.
I think it's Chapter 11.
But for now, let's remember thatthe Early Christians called
Spiritual emotions the"Fruit ofthe Spirit." That's why we keep
using that term.
I know it confuses people.
You think of"fruit" as a bowl ofapples.
But the Fruit of the Spirit inthe original Greek words of the
(44:40):
Bible, that means-- the"Fruit ofthe Spirit" means-- the emotions
produced in us by the*HolySpirit*.
Or you could say, the emotionsin us that are the*result that
come from the Holy Spirit.
John (44:59):
Yeah, that's true for sure.
The Early Christians you may...
we talked about it...
they said that many times.
And we quoted Paul's definitionof the"Fruit" earlier.
But let's quote it again.
Owen (45:11):
Yeah, let's do! It's worth reporting! Here again, this is
how Paul defines the"Fruit ofthe Spirit" in his letter to the
Galatian Christians.
The emotions that the indwellingHoly Spirit produces in us are:
Supernatural Love, Joy, Peace,Patience, Kindness, Goodness,
(45:34):
Faithfulness, Gentleness, andSelf- Control.
John (45:39):
And I'm sure our friends remember that definition.
And I'm sure they realize it'sone of the most important
definitions in C hristianity.
Owen (45:48):
Hmm.
It is, John.
And our friends need to noticesomething.
Have we noticed what is not--what is*not-- on Paul's list of
emotions from the Holy Spirit?
And we all should notice that.
Here they are.
I didn't read stress, fear,confusion, shame, mistakes,
(46:09):
misunderstandings, anythingnegative.
*None of that is produced by theHoly Spirit.
Those are produced in us by ourown Selfish Human Nature.
And that includes*excessivehuman emotions* in Christian
meetings.
John (46:28):
And that's why Jesus taught Nicodemus that everything
from our flesh is fleshy.
And everything from the HolySpirit is Spiritual.
Those two motivators areincredibly*different-- and the
*behaviors they create in us.
Owen (46:46):
Yeah.
And so John, to help usunderstand-- finally, one more
time-- the*difference betweenthese two motivators: Let me say
something that I often love tosay.
It's actually on page 133 of thebook.
But let's tell it to ourfriends.
And here it is (47:04):
xThe Holy Spirit is the greatest Gentleman in the
universe.
He never interrupts when we'retalking about something else, or
when we're doing something else.
He works by invitation.
(Repeats.)x
John (47:24):
Yeah.
That Owen, again, that's anotherone of those pivotal comments,
understandings, because the HolySpirit*is the greatest Gentlemen
in the universe.
Think about that.
He never makes us do anythingthat's embarrassing,
humiliating, or frightening.
(47:45):
And our listeners need to hearthat.
That's why we should never,never, fear being motivated by
the Holy Spirit within us.
We should never fear theSpiritual Fruit or Gifts.
Owen (48:03):
That's absolutely true, John.
And take a tip from me.
If you see anything scary andfrightening, or embarrassing, or
humiliating, at a Christianmeeting, here's a tip:"It ain't
from the Spirit." So, John,look.
As we approach the end of theepisode now, I think we should
(48:24):
be as precise as possible aboutwhat Spiritual maturity looks
and feels like.
Because being Spiritually mature-- it*does make you different.
You*feel different.
You*think different.
You*act different.
And that's a good thing.
As we said earlier, that's thereason Christianity spread in
(48:47):
the First Century.
Think about it.
A Spiritual movement, started in*one morning, by 120 people in a
little-known backwater city, ina little-known backwater
country, spread worldwide in 70years.
There was a reason for that.
And they didn't have TV andradio.
John (49:09):
(Chuckles.) Right.
And let's see how clearly we canmake a*contrast between the two
behaviors.
So let's, Owen, let's describewhat a Spiritually mature
Christian acts l ike.
Owen (49:23):
That's a good one.
And let's agree that Spirituallymature Christians can*look like
anybody else, as far as clothesand their facial expression, or
whatever-- their hair cut.
But, they're different fromother people only in their inner
feelings and their outerbehavior.
(49:44):
They have a peace, calmness,confidence, hope, and happiness,
that other people*don't have--even infant Christians don't
have.
Why?
Because it's coming from theindwelling Holy Spirit.
And that's not happening in anyother brand and form of people.
(50:05):
Owen, what about the flip sideof that?
Tell us about that.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, what is it thatSpiritually mature Christians
don't have--*don't have?
They*don't have all the negativeemotions and behavior that
non-Christians have and frankly,(that) some infant Christians
(50:25):
have.
They don't have hostility...
quarreling...
jealousy...
anger...
lust...
selfishness...
divisiveness...
gossip...
drug abuse...
all the other negative thingsthat we could sit here and name.
John (50:39):
Yeah.
Owen, I have to say personally,I think that's as clear a
description of Spiritualmaturity as we're going to get.
And it also tells us whySpiritual maturity is so needed
by others.
Who would*not want to beSpiritually mature, considering
(51:02):
its wonderful benefits?
Owen (51:07):
That's right, John.
Who wouldn't, who wouldn't?
And our friends need to remembernow, that Chapter 10 in the book
is titled:"The MatureChristian." And it explains, and
describes, and gives examples,of all of this.
And then also, it has a*diagramin it.
And we're including this diagramright now at about a point 51
(51:30):
minutes into the script.
But remember, it's also on page141 of the book.
And John, I'm looking at thatdiagram now.
We're all seeing it here in thescript.
And most of this diagram iscolored*white.
The whole left side of thechart, the side that represents
(51:51):
the indwelling Spirit, is*white.
But look at this.
That white color extends overmost of the*top circle-- the one
that represents the human mind.
That indicates that the HolySpirit is the*dominant motivator
in this Christian's mind, in thepicture here.
The Selfish Human Nature's beenpushed out of all but maybe 10
(52:15):
percent of the Christian's mind.
And look.
If we assume that this picture...
this Christian...
has made this picture a habit--a*habit-- then this Christian is
Spiritually mature, and isliving the Early Christian
Lifestyle of peace, healing, andhope, that we're talking about
(52:37):
in these episodes.
This is the*same lifestyle thatPaul-- you mentioned earlier,
John-- called"Walking in theSpirit." And it's the same
lifestyle that we call living"alittle bit of heaven here on
earth."
John (52:52):
Yeah.
That chart, Owen, representswhat all of us so desperately
need.
We need to wake up in themorning, and live through the
day,(and) go to bed at night,with this kind of peace,
healing, and hope, flooding upin us, straight from the Throne
Room of God in Heaven.
Owen (53:12):
Hallelujah.
Praises to the lamb.
Well, but John, here we are nowat the end of the episode.
Let's quickly summarizeeverything that we've said.
Because I think this is veryimportant for our friends out in
Podcast Land:*To understand themature Christian*.
John (53:32):
Yeah, it's vital.
I was thinking the same thing.
You know, we said at the top ofthe show today that Spiritual
maturity is simple, and yetcomplicated, at the same time.
Owen (53:44):
That's right.
(Chuckles.) So let's summarize*seven points for our friends to
remember as we sign off here: xFirst- Spiritual growth is (53:48):
undefined
learning how to beSpirit-filled.
Second- Being Spirit-filled isletting the Holy Spirit fill 51
percent or more of our mindswith the Fruit of the Spirit.
Third- The Fruit of the Spiritis supernatural Love, Peace,
(54:10):
Joy, Patience, and otherpositive emotions that are
flooding up within us from theindwelling Holy Spirit's
motivation inside us.
Fourth- These positive emotionsproduce...
that's what emotions do...
produce outer behavior ofsupernatural Love, Joy, Peace,
(54:31):
and Patience, and other positivebehaviors that are*unique to
Spirit-filled Christians.
Fifth- We learn how to beSpirit-filled by wanting it,
seeking it, and praying thedaily prayer--*all day, in fact
--"Fill me, Holy Spirit."Spiritual maturity, number Six
(54:54):
then- Is when that becomes ahabit.
And finally, number Seven- TheEarly Christian Lifestyle that
we keep talking about is beingSpiritually mature, and that
means being habituallySpirit-filled.
John (55:11):
Wow.
I Love it.
Owen (55:15):
Well.
So, I hate to close this one,John.
But let's do close by remindingour friends in Podcast Land to
pray these four words every day,all day.
Here they are again:"Fill me,Holy Spirit...
Fill me, Holy Spirit." Glory toGod.
John (55:35):
Hmm.
That's right.
And our friends out in PodcastLand should also remember, we
want to remind you, that this isEpisode 17.
And that a script and recording...
there's a*lot in this episode...
it's there on our website at: goSCpod.com. (55:48):
undefined
That's G-O-S-C-P-O-D.com.
Owen (55:58):
That's right.
Indeed they are, John.
Well, and now this is Owen Allen...
John (56:04):
...
and this is John Shields, withour producer, Shannon Wolfe...
Owen (56:08):
...
saying (56:08):
May the God of our fathers bless you, and keep you,
and guide you, and protect you,until we meet again.
Owen and John (56:31):
Owen and John end the episode.
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