Beyond the Behavior Bouncer

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In the previous episode, we talked about what happens when a behavior referral isn’t really about the student- and how counselors can shift out of the “removal service” role and into real consultation.

But what if that doesn’t feel realistic?

This bonus episode tackles the pushback:

• What if your admin expects you to remove students, no questions asked?
• What if your teachers are too burned out to reflect?
• What if you barely have time to breathe, let alone consult?

We’re walking through the most common objections counselors have and how to shift your role anyway, one step at a time.

If last week’s episode made you think, “That sounds great, but it won't work on my campus,” this one’s for you.

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Our goal at School for School Counselors is to help school counselors stay on fire, make huge impacts for students, and catalyze change for our roles through grassroots advocacy and collaboration. Listen to get to know more about us and our mission, feel empowered and inspired, and set yourself up for success in the wonderful world of school counseling.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you listened to the last episode episode 142, we
took kind of a hard look atbehavior referrals and we asked
one really big and uncomfortablequestion what if the behavior
referral really isn't about thestudent at all?
We talked about adultdysregulation, teacher burnout

(00:24):
and how school counselors oftenget pulled into reactive roles
that don't really fix the rootof the issue.
We walked through thefive-minute behavior consult,
which is a short, strategicconversation to help support
your school staff withoutbecoming the on-call behavior
fixer, and we covered how toidentify when the issue maybe

(00:48):
isn't so much about the studentas it is about the adult, and
how to lead from that place withcuriosity and not judgment.
But I knew when I had publishedon that episode you were going
to have some big questions,because real school campuses are

(01:11):
messy and the relationships onthose campuses are often very
delicate and the last thing thatwe need is something that
sounds good in theory but reallydoesn't work in the real world.
So today I want to follow upthat episode and I want to

(01:32):
answer your questions.
I want to talk about theobjections that you might have
to this style of behaviorintervention and help you figure
out how to make it work, evenwhen the system around you is
not ideal.
Welcome back to the School forSchool Counselors podcast, my
friend.
I'm Steph Johnson, a full-timeschool counselor, just like you,

(01:55):
on a mission to make schoolcounseling more sustainable and
more enjoyable.
All right, we're going to jumpright into it.
Let's hit objection number one.
When we talk about providingconsultation for behavior

(02:18):
instead of automaticallyremoving the student, many
people will come back with this.
Removing the student gives theteacher a break, and that is a
good thing.
It's probably what youradministrators would say, right,
and it can be.
It can be a good thing to givea teacher a break In the moment.
It is absolutely a good idea togive the teacher a moment to

(02:41):
re-regulate if they need to.
That is real and that timematters, and we have all had
days where we've had to juststep out of a situation and take
a breath, right, so it makessense that our staff might need
that too.
But here's what else is real.
If that's happening regularlyand removing a student is the

(03:06):
only strategy that's being used,it becomes a very unhealthy
cycle because the teacher neverlearns to regulate themselves in
the moment, the student neverbuilds resilience in that less
than perfect environment and youbecome the on-call crisis team,
even when really it's not acrisis.

(03:28):
Short-term behavior reliefcannot be the only plan.
So, yes, you can help when it'sneeded, but you do always need
to follow up Y'all, even a30-second check-in based on that
solution-focused framework thatI provided in the last episode

(03:52):
of what's happening.
When does it happen?
What's been tried already, whatworked, even just a little bit,
and what's one small thing wecan try next that can make a
difference.
Ask the teacher how they'redoing, what do they want to try
next?
Because when you do that,you're guiding the teacher

(04:14):
toward their own best solutionand you're acting as a leader.
Objection number two comes fromour sweet, empathetic hearts.
I don't want to blame teachersand I don't want to damage my
relationships with them.
Same, my friend.
Same.

(04:34):
None of us want to do that,because our jobs depend on good
relationships with staff.
But let's be honest, thatcannot also mean that we stay
silent when we see patterns thataren't working.
So it's not about pointingfingers.
It's about asking betterquestions.

(04:54):
What's been going well, evenjust a little bit?
What happens right before thatbehavior shows up?
What happens right before thatbehavior shows up?
Because when you frame yourquestions that way, when it
sounds like this is a sharedprocess and not a performance
review, most teachers are notgoing to get defensive.

(05:15):
They're going to feel verysupported, fact I would say.
Just reflecting on my time as aclassroom teacher, I would bet
that many teachers feel isolatedwhen they're struggling with
student behavior and that youasking questions like this might
be the first time someone onthat campus has treated them

(05:37):
like a partner rather than aproblem.
Objection number three I don'thave time to consult.
That's fair.
Your day is already packed.
You've got meetings andcheck-ins and students walking
in and out unannounced.
I get it.
My day is the same way.

(05:58):
But here's what I've learned inalmost 30 years in public
education You're alreadyspending time on behavior.
It's just reactive.
You're spending time walkingthem across campus, talking with
them, writing referral notes,following up with your
administrators, teaching copingskills.

(06:19):
You're trying to identify acounseling intervention or a
small group.
It's all time you're trying toidentify a counseling
intervention or a small group.
It's all time you're alreadyusing.
So this consult isn't an extrathing.
It's just a redirection of yourtime.
You could ask solution-focusedquestions in the hallway, you

(06:39):
could ask them at dismissal oreven in a quick email.
You could even make yourself anemail template if you need to,
because this is not about beingfancy, it's about shifting
energy and helping your staffbuild skills instead of just
trying to unload the problemsall on your shoulders.

(07:00):
And over time, as you invest inthis intentionality, your time
gets protected, because yourteachers begin feeling more
confident and they become morecompetent with problem behaviors
in their classrooms and thereferrals start to slow down

(07:30):
down.
Objection number four and a veryreal and very unfortunate truth
my admin expects me to removestudents, and it is a
non-negotiable.
That's real too.
I have worked on those campusesand I am not going to pretend
that listening to this episodeor trying one brief consult with
the teacher is going to changeall that overnight.
But you do have control toinstigate some change, and most

(07:53):
of that, in my opinion, isrelated to how you show up in
the moment.
Instead of just removing astudent and calling it a day
sometimes the whole day right,consider adding one small action
.
Ask the teacher what happenedright before this started.
Acknowledge their frustration.

(08:15):
Man, I can tell this has been atough week for you.
Ask if anything helped at allbefore you arrived.
Ask if anything helped at allbefore you arrived.
These questions are light,they're non-threatening, but
they start to train your staffto reflect instead of just
referring.
And if you really want a gamechanger, track the information

(08:41):
log.
The behavior calls how longthey took you, how often were
you pulled from something elseand is there a pattern by time
of day or by teacher?
Because that data is going togive you huge leverage and when
you have a conversation withyour higher-ups, you can come
across not as complaining but asdocumenting.

(09:04):
So when you bring thatinformation to your admin,
you're not just saying I'moverwhelmed and they're looking
at you thinking we all are.
What's your point?
You can show them the data andexplain a better way.
I mentioned in the last episode, we do a lot of this in our
School for School CounselorsMastermind.
So many school counselors cometo us saying there is absolutely

(09:28):
no way that I can track my useof time data in my day.
There is too much going on.
I can't stop for a minute.
This is absolutely anon-negotiable.
It can happen and by the end ofthe year they're collecting
that information like a boss.
We have systems, we have hacksin place.
I promise you we've got yoursolution if you give us a chance

(09:52):
.
But whether you work with us oron your own, make sure you're
tracking that information.
Objection number five and, to behonest, another unfortunate
truth teachers don't want advicefrom school counselors.
I hear this a lot and, to befair, I get it.

(10:15):
I was there myself too.
I didn't want to hear from theschool counselor what did they
know?
They weren't in the classroomall day, like me.
They didn't have this kid intheir face all day or all hour
or whatever it is, and I reallyjust kind of dismissed anything
that they had to say to me.
So I think that myth is right.

(10:37):
Teachers don't want unsolicitedadvice.
But I can also tell you whatthey do want.
They want somebody that seesthem working their guts out and
says, hey, I'm here to help,let's figure this out.
That's what that five-minuteconsult does.
It puts the power in theteacher's hands, where you're

(11:01):
not telling them what to do,you're just asking them what's
already working and helping themfind their own best next step.
And that's not giving advice,that is empowering your teachers
, and most of them are hungryfor that type of support,
especially when it doesn't comewith a side dish of judgment or

(11:25):
more paperwork or data for themto collect.
So listen y'all, I get it.
These objections are valid,they're real and I have had them
too.
So you are not wrong in thinkingthat this approach sounds hard,
but I think also what you maybe doing in the realm of
behavior.
Intervention is hard.

(11:46):
Intervention is hard.
If nothing else, I want you toleave this episode with these
three mantras running throughyour head.
Number one you don't need aleadership title to lead.
Number two you don't needpermission to ask better

(12:09):
questions.
And number three you don't needa perfect system to shift your
campus culture.
You can start small, you canstay steady, and don't let the
fear of things being awkwardkeep you from doing the kind of

(12:31):
work that actually helps people,not just your students, but the
adults on your campus too.
Because when you invest in thisprocess with intentionality,
with fidelity, and you'rewilling to be in it for the long
game, for the marathon of it,you won't just be responding to

(12:55):
behavior, however your solutionlooks right now, but you will
start to redefine what behaviorsupport looks like.
One consult at a time looks likeOne consult at a time, one

(13:16):
classroom at a time and onestudent at a time, and if you
can stick with it, you are goingto completely change the
perception of the schoolcounselor's role on your campus
and, my friend, that is a verygood thing.
I hope this episode empoweredyou and fired you up and got you

(13:36):
inspired for the potential forchange on your campus.
If you are being used as thebehavior bouncer on your campus,
this is your way out.
It's not easy and it's probablynot going to be fast, but it
will be impactful if you canjust lean into it long enough to

(13:59):
see the change.
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
In the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Take care.