October 6, 2025 • 21 mins
⭐️ Want support with real-world strategies that actually work on your campus? We’re doing that every day in the School for School Counselors Mastermind. Come join us! ⭐️
**********************************
You’re not a behavior specialist. You’re not a Tier 2 team of one. And you’re definitely not the defiance whisperer.
But… if you’re stuck dealing with behavior anyway, you might as well make it worth it.
In this episode, I’ll show you how school counselors can actually win the long game with behavior intervention—without losing time, credibility, or your mind in the process.
**********************************
All names, stories, and case studies in this episode are fictionalized composites drawn from real-world circumstances. Any resemblance to actual students, families, or school personnel is coincidental. Details have been altered to protect privacy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
I'm about to tell you something that might sound
controversial.
School counselors should getinvolved in behavior
intervention.
Not because it's in your jobdescription, but because it's
your fastest path toprofessional credibility and
autonomy on campus.
(00:22):
All right, so let me explain.
Imagine this, and it won't behard.
A student is melting down in thehallway.
And then a teacher sticks theirhead out of the classroom and
says, Can someone get thecounselor?
If you have been in this job formore than five minutes, you know
what's coming next.
(00:42):
And I guarantee it wasn't in thegrad school brochure.
You know, the ones where thecounselors are sitting in these
peaceful rooms, not racingtoward flying chairs?
If that picture had been there,half of us would have thought
twice about becoming schoolcounselors.
But here we are.
We are the ones on speed dialwhen things get loud, when they
(01:04):
get disruptive, or when theyjust get plain hard.
So today we're asking (01:08):
should school counselors act as
behavior specialists?
What are the real pros and cons?
And how can we step in withoutlosing sight of what we were
actually trained to do?
Hey, school counselor, welcomeback.
In this episode of our gradedseries, we're tackling the
(01:28):
question almost every schoolcounselor wrestles with.
Should school counselors act asbehavior specialists?
Because even if your districtsays you're not responsible for
discipline, your walkie tells adifferent story.
It goes off every time a studentrefuses to move, shuts down, or
blows up.
So where's the line betweensupport and discipline?
(01:51):
If you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, a
little clarity and maybe a touchof rebellion, you are in the
right place.
I'm Steph Johnson, and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast.
All right, so let's start thisvolatile conversation with a
(02:15):
truth that I think we can allagree on.
School counselors were nevermeant to function as
disciplinarians.
Ask us ethical standards forschool counselors make that
clear.
Counselors avoid disciplinaryduties and instead collaborate
with administrators to developdiscipline policies that are
fair, equitable, anddevelopmentally appropriate.
(02:38):
Peer-reviewed literature backsthat up.
Research describes our role inmulti-tiered systems as
consultative and preventative,not disciplinary.
Counselor prep programs aresupposed to train future
counselors to lead tier onesystems, facilitate small
groups, and analyze data, notdeliver consequences.
(03:01):
And yet, the reality on campuseslooks so very different.
When schools are understaffed,stressed, and stretched thin,
call the counselor becomes thedefault intervention plan.
And here's the thing (03:15):
student behavior hasn't just increased
post-COVID.
It's fundamentally changed.
Multiple national studiesconfirm what most of us are
seeing daily.
More intensity, more volatility,and more dysregulation than
before the pandemic.
(03:37):
Here's a number that shouldworry every single one of us.
87% of educators, almost nineout of 10, say student behavior
challenges have intensifiedsince the pandemic.
The CDC's Youth Risk BehaviorSurvey showed a dramatic rise in
adolescent distress withsymptoms of anxiety and
(03:59):
depression strongly linked toclassroom dysregulation.
Why?
Well, because the scaffoldingthat used to exist completely
collapsed when we were allisolated.
Kids lost months, and in somecases, a year or two of daily
practice in emotionalregulation.
And these months mattereddevelopmentally.
(04:22):
The consistent routines, thesocial modeling, and the adult
coaching that build frustrationtolerance and impulse control
just weren't there.
Many students returned toclassrooms with thinner
frustration tolerance, higherreactivity, and less impulse
control.
But there's another shift inthis landscape that we also need
(04:44):
to name.
And a lot of people, I don'tthink, want us calling this out,
but it's very real.
Some families fundamentallychanged their relationship with
school during the pandemic.
When education moved home, someparents disengaged entirely and
never fully re-engaged.
Attendance became optional.
(05:07):
Academic expectations at homesoftened.
And for some students, themessage they absorbed was that
school really isn't a priority.
So now we're seeing thecollision of these two forces.
Students who lack the regulationskills they would have
developed, and students who lackthe foundational belief that
(05:27):
showing up and engaging actuallymatters.
Picture this (05:31):
a seventh grader who thrived when school was
online now can't handle groupwork.
The noise, the proximity, maybethe unpredictability, it becomes
complete sensory overload.
Three years ago, this kid wouldhave powered through, but now
fight or flight kicks in andsuddenly you're being called to
the cafeteria to rescue.
(05:53):
Or consider the ninth graderwhose parents stopped enforcing
attendance during remotelearning.
School became something youlogged into when convenient and
ignored when it wasn't.
That student is now physicallyback in the building, but the
internal framework that sayseducation matters never rebuilt
itself.
(06:14):
And the adults are running onempty too.
Teachers are fatigued, admin arestretched thin, and patience is
a precious resource.
So, yes, behavior has changed inour schools.
It's not just louder, though,it's deeper, it's more complex,
and it's more neurologicallyrooted.
(06:36):
And that's why school counselorsare being called to assist with
behavior now more than ever.
Because in many schools, we'reone of the few professionals
with any training in behavioralfunction or regulation.
So we just can't say that's notmy job.
We have to decide how to show upin this new landscape without
(06:57):
losing who we are.
Which brings us to what actuallyhappens when we do step into
behavior intervention.
Let me tell you about twodifferent counselors.
The first one was drowning.
She was getting eight to 12behavior calls a week, spending
six to eight hours weekly inreactive crisis mode.
(07:18):
She had zero time for herplanned small groups.
She felt like a glorifiedsecurity guard.
Her office became the holdingcell for kids who couldn't
regulate, and teachers startedlooking to her as the person who
handled problems.
She was exhausted, resentful,and seriously considering
leaving the professionaltogether.
(07:41):
The second counselor startedwith the same call volume, eight
to twelve calls per week, butshe did something different.
After every single intervention,she'd spend 60 seconds
debriefing with the teacher.
Just one question.
What were you noticing rightbefore things escalated?
Within three weeks, her callsdropped to three to five per
(08:04):
week.
She reclaimed four hours forproactive work.
Not because student behaviormagically improved, wouldn't
that be nice?
But because teachers startedcatching patterns earlier.
They began making smallinstructional adjustments and
they learned to read the roomdifferently.
Same school, same population,different approach.
(08:29):
That's the difference betweenbeing a band aid and being a
consultant.
So let's break down what makesschool counselor involvement in
behavior either powerful orproblematic.
In order to do that, we've gotto talk about what we're
bringing to the table.
And one of the greatest benefitswe bring is a mental health
(08:51):
lens.
Research shows that whencounselors lead positive
behavior efforts withdevelopmental framing, staff
begin to view misbehavior ascommunication rather than
defiance.
That's an enormous shift and onethat can start with us.
Also, students often trustcounselors more than authority
figures.
(09:12):
That trust allows for fasterde-escalation and deeper repair.
We're not just calming kidsdown, we're co-regulating.
And that's something that veryfew other adults on our campuses
are trained to do, or let's behonest, can really be successful
with.
And you know what this lookslike in practice.
You're not matching thestudents' intensity, you're not
(09:34):
standing over them, barking atthem, demanding compliance.
You are lending your nervoussystem to theirs until they can
find their footing again.
That is advanced clinical work,and it matters.
Also, in the peer-reviewedliterature, teachers
consistently describeconsultation with school
counselors as the most impactfulsupport they receive.
(09:58):
School counselors can helpteachers decode student behavior
and make the instructionalchanges.
That's true collaboration.
It's not crisis management.
And this is where the realleverage lives.
Every consultation conversationyou have is an investment in
reducing future crises.
(10:20):
But to be fair, each of thesepositives carries risk if we
don't protect our boundaries.
Research consistently finds thatwhen school counselors are
assigned duties outside theirscope, like discipline or
supervision or testing, ourburnout rates skyrocket.
(10:41):
I am sure this is no surprise toyou.
Role conflict is one of thestrongest predictors of
counselor exhaustion.
Every time we absorb work thatbelongs to someone else, we
drain the bandwidth that keepsus effective.
But then we begin to walk thetightrope.
We step into support behavior,but to the teachers, our
(11:04):
presence becomes theconsequence.
To the student, sometimes beingsent to you feels punitive.
And suddenly you're playing arole that was never meant to be
yours.
When call the counselor becomesthe default, it usually means
tier one supports are weak.
Studies show that when schoolcounselors lead Tier One efforts
(11:27):
proactively, referrals drop.
And when they functionreactively, referrals spike.
The truth is your effectivenessat putting out fires can
actually prevent your campusfrom building a fire prevention
system.
This is where it hurts to begood at de-escalating students
(11:49):
in the moment.
So here's where most podcasts orschool counseling influencers
would tell you to just setbetter boundaries and walk away.
But I'm not going to do thatbecause it's not realistic and
you know it, don't you?
Instead, I'm going to show youhow to turn this liability into
(12:11):
your biggest leadership asset.
But before we go further, let'sstop.
And I need you to be honest withyourself about something.
There are three signs thatyou've crossed from intervention
into discipline territory.
One, you're decidingconsequences instead of
suggesting supports.
(12:32):
If you're the one decidingyou're suspended or you owe the
teacher an apology, you'vedrifted into discipline land.
Second, students start avoidingyou because they think you'll
get them in trouble.
If kids are jumping into thebathrooms when they see you
coming, that's a reputationproblem.
And third, you're being asked tosupervise instead of consult.
(12:56):
If your role has become watchthis kid or keep him out of
class, you are being misused.
And if you've checked even oneof those, we need to talk real
quick about boundaries.
This doesn't make you a badcounselor, it makes you human,
right?
But you're a human working in asystem that feels freaking
(13:16):
impossible.
What actually matters in thesescenarios is what you do next.
I'll be honest with you, I'vecrossed that line.
Early in my career, I became theconsequence.
I didn't mean to, but whenyou're drowning and everybody's
shouting for help, you grabwhatever can keep you afloat,
right?
And it took me two years torebuild my reputation from the
(13:41):
person who handles the problemsto the person who helps us
understand problems.
And I'm sharing this so that youknow if you're there right now,
there is a way to come back.
So with that, let's namesomething that I think a lot of
us worry about.
If I'm intervening in behavior,am I doing discipline?
(14:06):
Write this down.
This is going to be important.
Discipline asks, how do I makethis stop?
Intervention asks, what doesthis student need?
If you can answer the secondquestion, you're in your lane.
If you're only answering thefirst question, how do I make
(14:27):
this stop, you've drifted.
Because discipline is aboutcontrol.
Intervention is about regulationand repair.
If you're saying, let's figureout what happened and how you
can fix this, that'sintervention.
And if you're saying, you'regonna have to come with me and
come out of class, you'vecrossed into discipline
(14:48):
territory.
If you're helping a studentcalm, reflect, and re-enter,
stay the course.
But if you're assigning orenforcing a consequence, even a
veiled consequence, you'vecrossed the line.
And that awareness, moment tomoment, is how we keep our
integrity intact.
So here's how you'll know whenyou've got this right.
(15:12):
Listen to the language thatteachers use when they call you.
If they're saying things like,can you deal with her?
That's discipline language.
If they're saying, can you helpme understand what's happening?
That's intervention language.
And your job is to shift theirquestions one conversation at a
(15:34):
time.
All right, so what's the answerthen?
We cannot avoid being called forbehavior concerns.
On most campuses, that is notpossible, but we can control how
we respond.
So here's what works.
And the first one you alreadyknow.
Step in to de-escalate, butdon't assign consequences.
(15:55):
Keep your language grounded inregulation and support, not
punishment or control.
We also need to debriefafterward with staff.
We need to have quick follow-upconversations, like, what did
you notice right before theescalation?
Because that builds capacity forthe next time.
And this is how consultationbecomes leadership.
(16:19):
Third, we got to protect theline.
When we get asked aboutconsequences in the moment, and
y'all folks are going to try topush us into that box.
We need to pivot gently.
I can share what might help andregulate, but I'll leave the
decisions about consequences toyou or the principal.
And then last, document what yousee and make it visual.
(16:41):
If you're called for the samepatterns over and over and over
again, my friend, that's data.
So use it to advocate forsystemic change.
Don't just write down, JohnnySmith had five referrals this
month.
Create a chart.
Show Monday mornings, alwaysmath class, always after
transitions.
Hand that to your administratorand say, we don't have a Johnny
(17:05):
problem.
We have a Monday morningtransition problem.
That's how you move fromfirefighter to systems leader.
These moments are your chance tolead from within the chaos.
So what I'm not saying is becomethe behavior police.
I'm not saying to absorb workthat doesn't belong to you.
(17:28):
And I'm not saying to sacrificeyour mental health or your
professional well-being for abroken system.
But what I am saying is that youcan use these moments
strategically.
You can build influence whilestill protecting your integrity,
and you can lead from within thechaos instead of drowning in it.
(17:51):
So let's grade behaviorintervention by school
counselors.
With regard to effectiveness forstudents, it gets a B.
Because when we do that withclear boundaries and clinical
framing, counselor involvementsignificantly reduces harm and
models co-regulation in a waythat very few others on your
(18:12):
campus can do.
With regard to alignment withour role, I'm going to give that
a B minus.
It's not our traditional schoolcounseling role, to be sure, but
it can be authentically alignedwhen we focus on regulation over
discipline, when we look atconsultation over rescue and
prevention over reaction.
(18:35):
And then in the category ofsystemic sustainability, I'm
going to go C there because itrequires intentional boundary
setting and tier one investment.
But when we handle thatstrategically, it builds the
professional credibility thatprotects all aspects of your
school counseling work.
So altogether, that's going tocome in to give behavior
(18:58):
intervention as schoolcounselors a grade of B minus.
In the post-COVID landscape,behavior intervention has become
one of the most powerful ways tobuild clout and authority on
your campus.
When you show up calm,clinically grounded, and
effective in crisis moments,you'll earn the trust that
(19:19):
translates to everywhere else,especially when it comes to
being deferred to instead ofmicromanaged.
Think about that.
Every time you show up regulatedwhen everyone else is losing it,
you are making deposits in yourcredibility bank.
And here's what that bankaccount buys you.
(19:40):
The principal who stopsquestioning your schedules.
The teacher who finallyimplements the strategies you
suggested.
The parent who trusts yourjudgment about their child.
And the district that funds youradditional training request.
That's not theory.
That is the career progressionI've watched happen for
(20:03):
counselors who master thebalance.
You don't need to become abehavior specialist.
You need to become a behaviorleader.
You know, if there's one smallupside to all of this post-COVID
behavioral chaos, it's this.
Campuses everywhere are cravingadults who can lead through
(20:26):
regulation instead of reaction.
School counselors are uniquelypositioned for that.
Not because we have everyanswer, but because we're
trained to slow the moment down,to look for the function beneath
the behavior, and to help adultssee patterns instead of
problems.
When we do that, when we respondwith calm, when we document what
(20:50):
we're seeing and we bring othersinto the conversation, we model
what real leadership looks likein schools right now.
Now, you may be thinking, Steph,this sounds great in theory, but
I need actual language.
What do I say when a teacherdumps a kid off in my office and
tells me to handle it?
What do I do when I'm gettingcalled five times a day and I
(21:12):
can't even do my actual schoolcounseling job anymore?
That's exactly what we're goingto be covering next week in a
live class called BehaviorIntervention Without Burnout.
We're going to walk through howthis actually works in the real
world in real life.
And I'm also going to share thebehavior breakthrough kit.
(21:32):
It's the same resource so manyhave used to cut through the
confusion and make quickdecisions about behavior
concerns.
If you join us, you're going toget the Behavior Intervention
Without Burnout masterclass thathas practical strategies that
actually work.
This is field tested.
(21:53):
We know it works.
You'll get the behaviorintervention playbook, which is
your step-by-step guide tointerventions that gets results,
a behavior support flow chart.
So you stop overthinking andknow exactly what to do next.
And oh, the best part of it all,I think, is the dysregulation
versus defiance decision tree.
(22:14):
Plus, I'm going to give you somepodcast episode summaries with
real takeaways that you can useimmediately.
So no more second guessing, nomore wasted time.
We're going to give you a clearplan to take action and to
protect your role while you'reactually helping students
because behavior intervention isgoing to land on your plate.
(22:37):
The question is whether you'regoing to step in as the band-aid
that everybody else forgetsabout, or as the leader who
changes how your entire buildingresponds to dysregulation.
If that's something that youneed, you can find out more at
schoolforschoolcounselors.comslash masterclass.
All right, I will be back soonwith another episode of the
(22:58):
School for School Counselorspodcast.
In the meantime, remember you'renot just managing behavior,
you're modeling what regulated,thoughtful leadership looks
like.
And my friend, that matters morethan you know.
I'm Steph Johnson.
Thanks for being here.
Take care.
I'm about to tell you something that might sound
controversial.
School counselors should getinvolved in behavior
intervention.
Not because it's in your jobdescription, but because it's
your fastest path toprofessional credibility and
autonomy on campus.
(00:22):
All right, so let me explain.
Imagine this, and it won't behard.
A student is melting down in thehallway.
And then a teacher sticks theirhead out of the classroom and
says, Can someone get thecounselor?
If you have been in this job formore than five minutes, you know
what's coming next.
(00:42):
And I guarantee it wasn't in thegrad school brochure.
You know, the ones where thecounselors are sitting in these
peaceful rooms, not racingtoward flying chairs?
If that picture had been there,half of us would have thought
twice about becoming schoolcounselors.
But here we are.
We are the ones on speed dialwhen things get loud, when they
(01:04):
get disruptive, or when theyjust get plain hard.
So today we're asking (01:08):
should school counselors act as
behavior specialists?
What are the real pros and cons?
And how can we step in withoutlosing sight of what we were
actually trained to do?
Hey, school counselor, welcomeback.
In this episode of our gradedseries, we're tackling the
(01:28):
question almost every schoolcounselor wrestles with.
Should school counselors act asbehavior specialists?
Because even if your districtsays you're not responsible for
discipline, your walkie tells adifferent story.
It goes off every time a studentrefuses to move, shuts down, or
blows up.
So where's the line betweensupport and discipline?
(01:51):
If you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, a
little clarity and maybe a touchof rebellion, you are in the
right place.
I'm Steph Johnson, and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast.
All right, so let's start thisvolatile conversation with a
(02:15):
truth that I think we can allagree on.
School counselors were nevermeant to function as
disciplinarians.
Ask us ethical standards forschool counselors make that
clear.
Counselors avoid disciplinaryduties and instead collaborate
with administrators to developdiscipline policies that are
fair, equitable, anddevelopmentally appropriate.
(02:38):
Peer-reviewed literature backsthat up.
Research describes our role inmulti-tiered systems as
consultative and preventative,not disciplinary.
Counselor prep programs aresupposed to train future
counselors to lead tier onesystems, facilitate small
groups, and analyze data, notdeliver consequences.
(03:01):
And yet, the reality on campuseslooks so very different.
When schools are understaffed,stressed, and stretched thin,
call the counselor becomes thedefault intervention plan.
And here's the thing (03:15):
student behavior hasn't just increased
post-COVID.
It's fundamentally changed.
Multiple national studiesconfirm what most of us are
seeing daily.
More intensity, more volatility,and more dysregulation than
before the pandemic.
(03:37):
Here's a number that shouldworry every single one of us.
87% of educators, almost nineout of 10, say student behavior
challenges have intensifiedsince the pandemic.
The CDC's Youth Risk BehaviorSurvey showed a dramatic rise in
adolescent distress withsymptoms of anxiety and
(03:59):
depression strongly linked toclassroom dysregulation.
Why?
Well, because the scaffoldingthat used to exist completely
collapsed when we were allisolated.
Kids lost months, and in somecases, a year or two of daily
practice in emotionalregulation.
And these months mattereddevelopmentally.
(04:22):
The consistent routines, thesocial modeling, and the adult
coaching that build frustrationtolerance and impulse control
just weren't there.
Many students returned toclassrooms with thinner
frustration tolerance, higherreactivity, and less impulse
control.
But there's another shift inthis landscape that we also need
(04:44):
to name.
And a lot of people, I don'tthink, want us calling this out,
but it's very real.
Some families fundamentallychanged their relationship with
school during the pandemic.
When education moved home, someparents disengaged entirely and
never fully re-engaged.
Attendance became optional.
(05:07):
Academic expectations at homesoftened.
And for some students, themessage they absorbed was that
school really isn't a priority.
So now we're seeing thecollision of these two forces.
Students who lack the regulationskills they would have
developed, and students who lackthe foundational belief that
(05:27):
showing up and engaging actuallymatters.
Picture this (05:31):
a seventh grader who thrived when school was
online now can't handle groupwork.
The noise, the proximity, maybethe unpredictability, it becomes
complete sensory overload.
Three years ago, this kid wouldhave powered through, but now
fight or flight kicks in andsuddenly you're being called to
the cafeteria to rescue.
(05:53):
Or consider the ninth graderwhose parents stopped enforcing
attendance during remotelearning.
School became something youlogged into when convenient and
ignored when it wasn't.
That student is now physicallyback in the building, but the
internal framework that sayseducation matters never rebuilt
itself.
(06:14):
And the adults are running onempty too.
Teachers are fatigued, admin arestretched thin, and patience is
a precious resource.
So, yes, behavior has changed inour schools.
It's not just louder, though,it's deeper, it's more complex,
and it's more neurologicallyrooted.
(06:36):
And that's why school counselorsare being called to assist with
behavior now more than ever.
Because in many schools, we'reone of the few professionals
with any training in behavioralfunction or regulation.
So we just can't say that's notmy job.
We have to decide how to show upin this new landscape without
(06:57):
losing who we are.
Which brings us to what actuallyhappens when we do step into
behavior intervention.
Let me tell you about twodifferent counselors.
The first one was drowning.
She was getting eight to 12behavior calls a week, spending
six to eight hours weekly inreactive crisis mode.
(07:18):
She had zero time for herplanned small groups.
She felt like a glorifiedsecurity guard.
Her office became the holdingcell for kids who couldn't
regulate, and teachers startedlooking to her as the person who
handled problems.
She was exhausted, resentful,and seriously considering
leaving the professionaltogether.
(07:41):
The second counselor startedwith the same call volume, eight
to twelve calls per week, butshe did something different.
After every single intervention,she'd spend 60 seconds
debriefing with the teacher.
Just one question.
What were you noticing rightbefore things escalated?
Within three weeks, her callsdropped to three to five per
(08:04):
week.
She reclaimed four hours forproactive work.
Not because student behaviormagically improved, wouldn't
that be nice?
But because teachers startedcatching patterns earlier.
They began making smallinstructional adjustments and
they learned to read the roomdifferently.
Same school, same population,different approach.
(08:29):
That's the difference betweenbeing a band aid and being a
consultant.
So let's break down what makesschool counselor involvement in
behavior either powerful orproblematic.
In order to do that, we've gotto talk about what we're
bringing to the table.
And one of the greatest benefitswe bring is a mental health
(08:51):
lens.
Research shows that whencounselors lead positive
behavior efforts withdevelopmental framing, staff
begin to view misbehavior ascommunication rather than
defiance.
That's an enormous shift and onethat can start with us.
Also, students often trustcounselors more than authority
figures.
(09:12):
That trust allows for fasterde-escalation and deeper repair.
We're not just calming kidsdown, we're co-regulating.
And that's something that veryfew other adults on our campuses
are trained to do, or let's behonest, can really be successful
with.
And you know what this lookslike in practice.
You're not matching thestudents' intensity, you're not
(09:34):
standing over them, barking atthem, demanding compliance.
You are lending your nervoussystem to theirs until they can
find their footing again.
That is advanced clinical work,and it matters.
Also, in the peer-reviewedliterature, teachers
consistently describeconsultation with school
counselors as the most impactfulsupport they receive.
(09:58):
School counselors can helpteachers decode student behavior
and make the instructionalchanges.
That's true collaboration.
It's not crisis management.
And this is where the realleverage lives.
Every consultation conversationyou have is an investment in
reducing future crises.
(10:20):
But to be fair, each of thesepositives carries risk if we
don't protect our boundaries.
Research consistently finds thatwhen school counselors are
assigned duties outside theirscope, like discipline or
supervision or testing, ourburnout rates skyrocket.
(10:41):
I am sure this is no surprise toyou.
Role conflict is one of thestrongest predictors of
counselor exhaustion.
Every time we absorb work thatbelongs to someone else, we
drain the bandwidth that keepsus effective.
But then we begin to walk thetightrope.
We step into support behavior,but to the teachers, our
(11:04):
presence becomes theconsequence.
To the student, sometimes beingsent to you feels punitive.
And suddenly you're playing arole that was never meant to be
yours.
When call the counselor becomesthe default, it usually means
tier one supports are weak.
Studies show that when schoolcounselors lead Tier One efforts
(11:27):
proactively, referrals drop.
And when they functionreactively, referrals spike.
The truth is your effectivenessat putting out fires can
actually prevent your campusfrom building a fire prevention
system.
This is where it hurts to begood at de-escalating students
(11:49):
in the moment.
So here's where most podcasts orschool counseling influencers
would tell you to just setbetter boundaries and walk away.
But I'm not going to do thatbecause it's not realistic and
you know it, don't you?
Instead, I'm going to show youhow to turn this liability into
(12:11):
your biggest leadership asset.
But before we go further, let'sstop.
And I need you to be honest withyourself about something.
There are three signs thatyou've crossed from intervention
into discipline territory.
One, you're decidingconsequences instead of
suggesting supports.
(12:32):
If you're the one decidingyou're suspended or you owe the
teacher an apology, you'vedrifted into discipline land.
Second, students start avoidingyou because they think you'll
get them in trouble.
If kids are jumping into thebathrooms when they see you
coming, that's a reputationproblem.
And third, you're being asked tosupervise instead of consult.
(12:56):
If your role has become watchthis kid or keep him out of
class, you are being misused.
And if you've checked even oneof those, we need to talk real
quick about boundaries.
This doesn't make you a badcounselor, it makes you human,
right?
But you're a human working in asystem that feels freaking
(13:16):
impossible.
What actually matters in thesescenarios is what you do next.
I'll be honest with you, I'vecrossed that line.
Early in my career, I became theconsequence.
I didn't mean to, but whenyou're drowning and everybody's
shouting for help, you grabwhatever can keep you afloat,
right?
And it took me two years torebuild my reputation from the
(13:41):
person who handles the problemsto the person who helps us
understand problems.
And I'm sharing this so that youknow if you're there right now,
there is a way to come back.
So with that, let's namesomething that I think a lot of
us worry about.
If I'm intervening in behavior,am I doing discipline?
(14:06):
Write this down.
This is going to be important.
Discipline asks, how do I makethis stop?
Intervention asks, what doesthis student need?
If you can answer the secondquestion, you're in your lane.
If you're only answering thefirst question, how do I make
(14:27):
this stop, you've drifted.
Because discipline is aboutcontrol.
Intervention is about regulationand repair.
If you're saying, let's figureout what happened and how you
can fix this, that'sintervention.
And if you're saying, you'regonna have to come with me and
come out of class, you'vecrossed into discipline
(14:48):
territory.
If you're helping a studentcalm, reflect, and re-enter,
stay the course.
But if you're assigning orenforcing a consequence, even a
veiled consequence, you'vecrossed the line.
And that awareness, moment tomoment, is how we keep our
integrity intact.
So here's how you'll know whenyou've got this right.
(15:12):
Listen to the language thatteachers use when they call you.
If they're saying things like,can you deal with her?
That's discipline language.
If they're saying, can you helpme understand what's happening?
That's intervention language.
And your job is to shift theirquestions one conversation at a
(15:34):
time.
All right, so what's the answerthen?
We cannot avoid being called forbehavior concerns.
On most campuses, that is notpossible, but we can control how
we respond.
So here's what works.
And the first one you alreadyknow.
Step in to de-escalate, butdon't assign consequences.
(15:55):
Keep your language grounded inregulation and support, not
punishment or control.
We also need to debriefafterward with staff.
We need to have quick follow-upconversations, like, what did
you notice right before theescalation?
Because that builds capacity forthe next time.
And this is how consultationbecomes leadership.
(16:19):
Third, we got to protect theline.
When we get asked aboutconsequences in the moment, and
y'all folks are going to try topush us into that box.
We need to pivot gently.
I can share what might help andregulate, but I'll leave the
decisions about consequences toyou or the principal.
And then last, document what yousee and make it visual.
(16:41):
If you're called for the samepatterns over and over and over
again, my friend, that's data.
So use it to advocate forsystemic change.
Don't just write down, JohnnySmith had five referrals this
month.
Create a chart.
Show Monday mornings, alwaysmath class, always after
transitions.
Hand that to your administratorand say, we don't have a Johnny
(17:05):
problem.
We have a Monday morningtransition problem.
That's how you move fromfirefighter to systems leader.
These moments are your chance tolead from within the chaos.
So what I'm not saying is becomethe behavior police.
I'm not saying to absorb workthat doesn't belong to you.
(17:28):
And I'm not saying to sacrificeyour mental health or your
professional well-being for abroken system.
But what I am saying is that youcan use these moments
strategically.
You can build influence whilestill protecting your integrity,
and you can lead from within thechaos instead of drowning in it.
(17:51):
So let's grade behaviorintervention by school
counselors.
With regard to effectiveness forstudents, it gets a B.
Because when we do that withclear boundaries and clinical
framing, counselor involvementsignificantly reduces harm and
models co-regulation in a waythat very few others on your
(18:12):
campus can do.
With regard to alignment withour role, I'm going to give that
a B minus.
It's not our traditional schoolcounseling role, to be sure, but
it can be authentically alignedwhen we focus on regulation over
discipline, when we look atconsultation over rescue and
prevention over reaction.
(18:35):
And then in the category ofsystemic sustainability, I'm
going to go C there because itrequires intentional boundary
setting and tier one investment.
But when we handle thatstrategically, it builds the
professional credibility thatprotects all aspects of your
school counseling work.
So altogether, that's going tocome in to give behavior
(18:58):
intervention as schoolcounselors a grade of B minus.
In the post-COVID landscape,behavior intervention has become
one of the most powerful ways tobuild clout and authority on
your campus.
When you show up calm,clinically grounded, and
effective in crisis moments,you'll earn the trust that
(19:19):
translates to everywhere else,especially when it comes to
being deferred to instead ofmicromanaged.
Think about that.
Every time you show up regulatedwhen everyone else is losing it,
you are making deposits in yourcredibility bank.
And here's what that bankaccount buys you.
(19:40):
The principal who stopsquestioning your schedules.
The teacher who finallyimplements the strategies you
suggested.
The parent who trusts yourjudgment about their child.
And the district that funds youradditional training request.
That's not theory.
That is the career progressionI've watched happen for
(20:03):
counselors who master thebalance.
You don't need to become abehavior specialist.
You need to become a behaviorleader.
You know, if there's one smallupside to all of this post-COVID
behavioral chaos, it's this.
Campuses everywhere are cravingadults who can lead through
(20:26):
regulation instead of reaction.
School counselors are uniquelypositioned for that.
Not because we have everyanswer, but because we're
trained to slow the moment down,to look for the function beneath
the behavior, and to help adultssee patterns instead of
problems.
When we do that, when we respondwith calm, when we document what
(20:50):
we're seeing and we bring othersinto the conversation, we model
what real leadership looks likein schools right now.
Now, you may be thinking, Steph,this sounds great in theory, but
I need actual language.
What do I say when a teacherdumps a kid off in my office and
tells me to handle it?
What do I do when I'm gettingcalled five times a day and I
(21:12):
can't even do my actual schoolcounseling job anymore?
That's exactly what we're goingto be covering next week in a
live class called BehaviorIntervention Without Burnout.
We're going to walk through howthis actually works in the real
world in real life.
And I'm also going to share thebehavior breakthrough kit.
(21:32):
It's the same resource so manyhave used to cut through the
confusion and make quickdecisions about behavior
concerns.
If you join us, you're going toget the Behavior Intervention
Without Burnout masterclass thathas practical strategies that
actually work.
This is field tested.
(21:53):
We know it works.
You'll get the behaviorintervention playbook, which is
your step-by-step guide tointerventions that gets results,
a behavior support flow chart.
So you stop overthinking andknow exactly what to do next.
And oh, the best part of it all,I think, is the dysregulation
versus defiance decision tree.
(22:14):
Plus, I'm going to give you somepodcast episode summaries with
real takeaways that you can useimmediately.
So no more second guessing, nomore wasted time.
We're going to give you a clearplan to take action and to
protect your role while you'reactually helping students
because behavior intervention isgoing to land on your plate.
(22:37):
The question is whether you'regoing to step in as the band-aid
that everybody else forgetsabout, or as the leader who
changes how your entire buildingresponds to dysregulation.
If that's something that youneed, you can find out more at
schoolforschoolcounselors.comslash masterclass.
All right, I will be back soonwith another episode of the
(22:58):
School for School Counselorspodcast.
In the meantime, remember you'renot just managing behavior,
you're modeling what regulated,thoughtful leadership looks
like.
And my friend, that matters morethan you know.
I'm Steph Johnson.
Thanks for being here.
Take care.
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