August 18, 2025 • 29 mins
Minute meetings look great on a spreadsheet. But do they actually help kids? In this episode of Graded, I dig into where this practice really came from, the myths we’ve built around it, and the risks nobody’s talking about, and I’ll share what to do instead.
Minute meetings have taken on near-folklore status in school counseling. They’re all over Pinterest, pushed in Facebook groups, and praised as the “must-do” way to reach every student. But here’s the problem: they didn’t come from research. They came from a 2011 blog post that went viral because it looked proactive and admin-friendly.
I’ll unpack why so many counselors have latched onto them, and the real costs hiding under the surface: wasted time, shaky privacy practices, legal risks, and the illusion of equity.
Most importantly, you’ll leave with stronger, evidence-backed alternatives- systematic data analysis, teacher consultation, and SEL strategies- that replace documentation theater with practices that actually change outcomes.
If you’ve ever wondered whether minute meetings are helping or quietly hurting your program, this episode is for you.
References (Annotated)
American School Counselor Association. (2005). The ASCA National Model: A framework for school counseling programs (2nd ed.). Alexandria, VA: Author.
This framework formalized the profession’s shift toward “comprehensive, data-driven” programs. Its expectations created pressure on counselors to prove contact and impact—conditions that made quick-fix strategies like minute meetings appealing.
Dahir, C. A., & Stone, C. B. (2006). The transformed school counselor. Belmont, CA: Brooks/Cole.
Captures the post-ASCA Model climate of accountability and data demands. This context helps explain why counselors gravitated toward visible, trackable practices like minute meetings, even without research support.
Kathuria, T., & Pandya, A. (2023). Can a five-minute meeting improve the wellbeing of students? The Indian school experience. Journal of Psychologists and Counsellors in Schools, 33(2), 1–11. https://doi.org/10.1017/jgc.2023.12
The only peer-reviewed study even remotely related to “minute meetings.” Though conducted in India and using a different model (five minutes, not one), it highlights how little empirical research exists to validate this practice in U.S. schools.
Schultz, D. (2011, December 28). Got a minute? School Counselor Blog. https://www.schcounselor.com/2011/12/got-minute.html
Earliest known mention of “minute meetings” in the school counseling world.
*********************************
⭐️ Want support with real-world strategies that actually work on your campus? We’re doing that every day in the School for School Counselors Mastermind. Come join us! ⭐️
**********************************
All names, stories, and case studies in this episode are fictionalized composites drawn from real-world circumstances. Any resemblance to actual students, families, or school personnel is coincidental. Details have been altered to protect privacy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A 13-year-old is hospitalized for severe
depression.
His school counselor had justtalked to him three weeks
earlier.
The school counselor haddocumentation proving that she
contacted the student.
She had a color-codedspreadsheet showing completion
(00:20):
of all of her minute meetings,but she didn't have the one
thing that might have helped thestudent sooner.
She didn't have real insightinto his struggles.
So what went wrong and why arethousands of school counselors
making the same mistake rightnow?
(00:42):
Is it you that's coming up?
Hey, school counselor, welcomeback In this episode of our
graded series.
We're examining something that'sbecome almost folklore in our
field minute meetings.
The uncomfortable truth is thatminute meetings didn't come
from research.
(01:02):
They came from counselor blogsand spread like wildfire because
they looked good and soundedproactive.
I'll share what the evidenceactually shows, the legal risks
most counselors don't know about, and why this practice might be
undermining the very studentsit claims to serve.
So if you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, some
(01:24):
clarity on your work and alittle bit of rebellion, you're
going to be in the right place.
I'm Steph Johnson, and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast.
Picture this it's 4.37 pm on aTuesday and Maria Santos I'm
changing their details forprivacy.
(01:45):
She sits in her clutteredschool counseling office staring
at her computer screen and rowafter row of Google Form
responses are scrolling pastFine, good, fine, fine, good,
okay, no problems.
She's just finished her minutemeetings for the year.
All 387 students on her middleschool caseload checked off in
(02:11):
nice, neat little rows.
She should feel accomplishedright.
But Maria feels empty becauseone of these students who said
they were fine, who'd smiledpolitely and said everything was
great during his 90-secondcheck-in, was hospitalized after
(02:32):
a severe mental health crisis.
The student got the help heneeded, but the question that
haunted Maria, the schoolcounselor, and really should
haunt all of us, was this howdid a so-called comprehensive
approach miss a kid who wasstruggling so deeply?
(02:54):
We'll come back to Maria'sstory, but here's the unsettling
part the practice that sherelied on minute meetings was
never built on research, and yetit's become one of our
profession's most unquestionedtraditions.
(03:15):
All right, so let's start byexamining where minute meetings
actually came from, because theorigin story may surprise you.
If you guessed research orpeer-reviewed journals or
evidence-based practiceframeworks, you'd be wrong.
Minute Meetings came from a2011 counselor blog post, and
(03:38):
the idea went viral throughPinterest and Teachers Pay
Teachers.
Think about that for a second.
Through Pinterest and TeachersPay Teachers.
Think about that for a secondwe have elevated a social media
trend to a professional standard.
It's like making TikTok dancespart of your curriculum because
the kids like them.
But meanwhile, evidence-basedalternatives, teacher
(04:03):
consultation programs, classroomSEL curricula, targeted
interventions like check-in,check-out, which we talked about
in the last episode those allsit unused because they're not
as Instagram-worthy as acolor-coded spreadsheet.
But to really understand how weall fell for this, we need to go
(04:24):
back in time to see where itall changed.
So picture 2003.
Asca has just published thefirst edition of its national
model revolutionizing how wewere supposed to think about
school counseling.
Suddenly, we weren't justguidance counselors anymore, we
(04:47):
were supposed to becomprehensive program managers.
That model was brilliant intheory Data-driven programming,
systematic delivery,accountability measures but by
2011, eight years later, manycounselors were either being
(05:07):
ignored or were drowning.
The national model demandedsophisticated program management
skills, administrative supportand time allocation that most of
us just didn't have.
Picture that school counselinglandscape.
We're trying to implement thiscomprehensive model.
(05:28):
Administrators are asking fordata we don't know how to
collect and we're desperate,absolutely freaking desperate,
to prove our worth.
And then, like a life raft in astormy sea this idea appears
Quick check-ins with everysingle student, one to two
(05:50):
minutes each, simple questions,log the responses, boom,
comprehensive contact achieved,data collected and ask a model,
boxes checked.
It spread like wildfire becauseit promised all the things we
so desperately wanted Equity,data collection, impressing our
(06:17):
administrators.
We didn't ask for research, wedidn't demand validation, we
just believed in it because itfelt right and it looked good in
it because it felt right and itlooked good.
But here's what we missed.
Good intentions don't guaranteegood outcomes.
Now, before we go further, Iwant you to pause this episode
for just a minute, really, andgo look at your minute meeting
(06:40):
spreadsheet.
Or, if you don't do them,imagine one minute meeting
spreadsheet.
Or, if you don't do them,imagine one.
What do you see when you lookat those responses, row after
row of good and excellent, or 3,4, 4, 3, 2, if you're asking
scaling questions.
Now ask yourself is that trulydata that moves the needle or is
(07:08):
it theater?
Think about it for just aminute.
Keep that image in your mind,those rows of all of those fine
responses, as I tell you about astudent named Marcus.
Marcus was in the eighth grade.
He was always in the same desk,third row back right side,
(07:31):
closest to the door.
His school counselor wouldlater realize that he'd been
claiming that spot because itgave him the quickest escape
route out of the classroom.
When his school counselor,janet, called him for his minute
meeting, marcus did what eighthgraders do.
He gave the expected answersHow's home?
(07:53):
Fine, school going okay?
Yeah, feeling safe.
Uh-huh, Anything you want totalk about?
No, I'm good.
Janet noted his responses inher spreadsheet 90 seconds check
mark next to his name.
Next student Three months later, marcus was hospitalized for
(08:14):
severe depression.
Turns out his parents weregoing through a really brutal
divorce.
He was sleeping in the car somenights just to avoid the drama
and fighting and shouting.
His grades were tanking, but hewas too ashamed or maybe too
proud or maybe too scared to sayanything.
(08:37):
In that minute meeting Janet hadseen Marcus.
She had documentation provingthat she had made contact with
him, but she hadn't reached him.
And that's the differencebetween activity and impact.
Here's the part that stillbothers Janet.
While she was spending 30 hourson minute meetings that year,
(09:02):
she missed the real warningsigns and opportunities to help.
Marcus's English teacher hadnoticed he was falling asleep in
class.
His PE teacher saw him wearingthe same clothes multiple days
on end and the custodian relayedthat he was often the last to
leave the building.
The system that could havecaught Marcus was right there,
(09:24):
only no one was looking at it.
And that brings us to theuncomfortable truth we need to
face about what minute meetingsreally are, and I need you to
hear this because it's going tochallenge everything you believe
about minute meetings.
They are not equitable, they'reperformative.
(09:46):
You and I both know that realequity does not mean giving
every student the same thing.
It means giving every personwhat they need.
So when you give yourtrauma-affected student the same
one-minute check-in as yourhigh-achieving, well-supported
student, you're not practicingequity, you're practicing
(10:10):
equality, and equality in aworld of unequal needs is
actually inequitable.
Think about it this way If youhad a hospital where every
patient, from the person with abroken finger to the person
having a heart attack attack,got exactly two minutes with the
(10:30):
doctor, would you call thatgood medicine or would you call
it malpractice?
So why do we accept that inschool counseling?
Let me give you some numbersthat should make you feel really
uncomfortable, because I spentweeks searching for research
(10:51):
supporting minute meetings.
I looked in academic databases,counseling journals, research
reviews, and you know what Ifound?
Nothing, absolutely nothing.
The closest thing that I couldfind was a 2023 study from India
(11:12):
about five-minute meetings.
It was a different practice,different context, different
student population, but that'sas close as I could get.
Meanwhile, we haveevidence-based alternatives that
actually work.
Teacher consultation andtraining programs have shown
remarkable success inidentifying at-risk students.
(11:34):
Classroom-based SEL curriculumsreach everyone while building
universal coping skills.
And Check In Check Out eventhough I gave it a hard time in
the last episode has evidenceshowing it actually changes
student outcomes for the rightstudents.
But check-in check-out doesn'tphotograph well and teacher
(11:58):
training doesn't fit in aPinterest pin.
We chose the trendy over thetested.
Now let me be very real,because if you've been doing
minute meetings and believingthat it was best practice, I'm
with you.
I did them too.
I remember sitting in my officeone day.
(12:20):
It was raining outside Iremember that because that's
pretty unusual for my neck ofthe woods and I was hearing the
rain patter on the glass dooroutside of my office because, of
course, I did not have a windowright and I had a student in my
office who was telling me theabsolute worst story I had heard
(12:42):
or have ever heard in my schoolcounseling career.
I will never forget theexpression on her face and
having to make phone calls tolocal authorities to help us
handle the situation.
And as I sat there looking atthis student who was drowning in
(13:03):
the circumstances of a realityshe could not escape.
I had seen them before, I haddata on them, but I'd failed
them, because one or two minutesisn't relationship building,
it's relationship performance.
And later that afternoon I justsat and stared at all of my use
(13:27):
of time data and my minutemeeting spreadsheet results, all
of those color-coded cells, allthat beautiful data, and I
asked myself a question thatchanged a lot about how I saw
myself as a school counselor AmI measuring what matters or just
what's easy to measure?
(13:47):
That question, years ago,planted a seed that took a while
to fully grow, I'll admit,because even after I stopped
doing minute meetings myself, Icontinued to see them as a
reasonable option when schoolcounselors asked for advice.
They weren't ideal, but theyseemed harmless, until I decided
(14:11):
to really dig into the researchon minute meetings for this
episode, and I was actuallyplanning to give them a little
bit more of a balanced critique.
I wanted to acknowledge theproblems but also accept them as
a decent starting point forcounselors who are overwhelmed.
But what I found or ratherdidn't find changed everything.
(14:33):
Even that dramatic day yearsago in my school counseling
office wasn't enough tocompletely shift my thinking,
but I did change it in a hotsecond when I realized that
there is a complete absence ofresearch supporting minute
meetings, and everything thatminute meetings claim to
(14:53):
accomplish can be done betterthrough systematic campus data
analysis.
Y'all.
Here's what I've realizedSchool counselors gravitate
toward minute meetings becausethey feel manageable.
Pulling kids in for one or twominute conversations feels
doable when you feel like yourhair is on fire every day and
(15:15):
people are evaluating youthrough a magnifying glass.
But diving into attendancepatterns and discipline,
referrals and gradedistributions and student survey
data feels intimidating.
Here is the truth.
If you can get past the initialintimidation of a real campus
data dig, your school will betransformationally better for it
(15:39):
and, instead of collectingshallow responses from everybody
, you're going to be able toidentify actual patterns, real
needs and systematic gaps thatimpact student outcomes.
That realization led me to dosome math and when you hear
(15:59):
these numbers, you're going tounderstand why I am so concerned
.
Let's talk about what minutemeetings really cost us, because
the math is brutal 500 studentstimes two minutes equals 16
hours at a minimum.
But then we have to factor inother things Transitions,
(16:21):
walking to classrooms waitingfor teachers to send students
out, walking to classroomswaiting for teachers to send
students out, relationshipattempts because you can't just
jump into personal questionswithout some sort of warmth or
who you are Then factor incrisis disclosures that you
can't just cut off when thetimer goes off, on top of all of
the other baloney lunch dutiesand morning duties and class
(16:43):
coverage and meetings and allthe other things you have going
on.
In my estimation you're lookingat nearly a month of school
counseling time.
But that's not even the realcost.
What about opportunity cost?
Because every hour spent onminute meetings is an hour not
spent training teachers torecognize depression, not spent
(17:08):
with the student who's cutting,or the kid whose parents are
divorcing, or the teenagercontemplating whether their life
is still worth living.
We are stealing from studentswho desperately need our
expertise to feed a practicethat makes us feel productive.
And if that's not concerningenough, there are also legal
(17:32):
issues we need to discuss.
You may not realize it becausesome of this is fairly new, but
minute meetings might violatestudent privacy laws in your
state.
New legislation in states likemy home state of Texas and in
Florida restrictcounselor-initiated
(17:52):
conversations about personaltopics without parental consent.
So if you're still doinguniversal minute meetings asking
about home life or feelings,you could be putting yourself in
legal jeopardy.
Texas Family Code Section32.004 limits when counselors
can initiate counselingconversations without parental
(18:15):
consent.
We can only do so in specificcircumstances suspected abuse,
suicide risk or substancedependency.
Florida's Chapter 1014 Parents'Bill of Rights establishes
parental authority overchildren's mental health
decisions.
Virginia requires writtenparental consent or opt-out
(18:36):
procedures for personal orsocial counseling under 8VAC
20-620-10.
And Ohio's House Bill 8, passedin December of 2024, now
requires schools to notifyparents of any counseling
services provided to students.
The landscape is shiftingtoward greater parental
(19:00):
involvement in student mentalhealth conversations, making
universal minute meetingsincreasingly problematic.
But beyond those legal risks,there's also ethical concerns,
because when we mandatedisclosure from students who
don't want or need ourintervention, we're not
providing support.
(19:21):
We're conducting surveillance.
And for students who'veexperienced trauma, being forced
to answer personal questionsfrom an authority figure can be
re-traumatizing, not healing.
So what do we do?
Instead, let's talk about thealternatives to the minute
(19:43):
meeting.
Approach to the minute meetingapproach.
Imagine a school counselor namedMrs Martinez.
Three years ago, she completelytransformed her program and,
instead of minute meetings, sheimplemented teacher consultation
.
She trains teachers torecognize warning signs through
(20:06):
structured observation, insteadof collecting fine and good
responses.
She built a referral systemthat catches kids before they
hit crisis.
As a result, her campusidentifies at-risk students
earlier and more accurately.
She can provide targetedintervention to kids who
(20:26):
actually need it, and she hasthe time, the actual time, to
build deep relationships withstudents who are experiencing
crisis.
Teachers approach her aboutstudents showing concerning
signs and the teachers recognizethose signs because of the
training the school counselor isproviding.
(20:48):
Then students are connectedwith intensive counseling,
supports or family resources orreferrals or whatever it is that
they need.
It's the difference betweenbeing busy and being effective.
It's evidence-based,equity-minded and life-changing
(21:10):
for students.
Now I know, as you're listening,you may be pushing back a
little bit, and I want toaddress some of the things you
may be thinking about, becauseyour concerns are real and they
do matter.
What about this one?
I hear this one a lot and Ieven said this myself.
Maybe my minute meeting planteda seed for a kid.
(21:34):
Maybe they knew they could cometo me because of that contact.
And you're right, prevention isimportant, but there's a
difference between relationshipbuilding and relationship
performing.
(21:54):
Real prevention happens throughyour Tier 1 programming, where
everyone's learning copingskills, or through training
teachers to recognize warningsigns, or creating a school
culture where seeking help isnormalized.
These approaches actuallyprevent problems instead of just
documenting that we asked aboutthem.
(22:15):
Okay, so what aboutimplementation?
Maybe you're thinking teachertraining needs time that I don't
have.
Check-in check-out is a levelof coordination that's just not
possible with what I've beentasked with on my campus.
So minute meetings might not beperfect, but they're doable and
at least they're something.
So in that situation I wouldsuggest starting small.
(22:40):
Pick one evidence-basedpractice and implement it well,
rather than doing minutemeetings poorly.
Maybe you teach five teachershow to use a structured
observation.
Maybe it's implementingcheck-in check-out with three
appropriate students instead ofminute meetings with 300.
(23:00):
Let's make our efforts and ourtime count, because once
administrators start seeingresults from those small starts,
they often find resources theyswore they didn't have for you.
And then I also hear people saythat their students tell them
that these minute meetingcheck-ins are almost some of the
(23:21):
only times that adults ask howthey're doing are almost some of
the only times that adults askhow they're doing.
If your minute meeting is theonly caring adult contact the
student has, then we have a muchbigger problem on your campus
and the minute meetings are justmasking it.
In that case, you need teacherstrained to build relationships.
You should be creatingmentorship programs and
(23:43):
establishing a school culturewhere every adult is attuned to
students' well-being.
Band-aids don't heal brokenbones, and I'm not saying that
kind of change is easy and thatthere aren't real barriers to
implementation, but I am sayingthat hard doesn't mean it's
impossible and the cost of notchanging the cost to our
(24:08):
students and our profession andour own integrity is too high to
not make the jump.
So what do we do instead?
Let's build a roadmap for yourpath forward.
Let's build a roadmap for yourpath forward.
First, we have to let go ofbelieving that every student
(24:29):
needs individual counseling.
Contact my friend, some kidsare thriving.
They have strong supportsystems, good coping skills and
healthy relationships, and ourjob isn't to manufacture
problems where none currentlyexist, like it seems we attempt
(24:54):
to do in minute meetings.
It's to be available whenstudents need us.
Secondly, we need to embrace thepower of systems, especially
with campus sizes like we're allrunning these days.
Instead of individual check-inswith everyone, we need to build
robust referral systems.
We need to train teachers torecognize warning signs and help
(25:14):
them create classroomenvironments where students feel
safe seeking help.
And then, when we find thosestudents who do need more
intensive supports, we are ableto give them what they actually
need Evidence-basedinterventions, check-in,
check-out, trauma-informed groupcounseling, family consultation
, genuine relationships andreferrals to outside resources.
(25:39):
And the beautiful thing is,when you stop trying to reach
everyone, you finally have timeto help someone.
If you are ready to move beyondminute meetings but you feel
intimidated by that campus datadig I mentioned.
That's exactly what I helpschool counselors do inside of
(26:00):
my data discussions cohort in mySchool for School Counselors
mastermind, because once you seewhat that real data analysis
can reveal about your students'needs, you'll never want to go
back to collecting good, good,fine and excellent responses.
This isn't about a massiveschool counseling program
(26:20):
overhaul.
Just take one small step towardmore evidence-based practice
that has the potential toactually change outcomes.
And speaking of creating change, let me tell you what happened
to Maria.
Remember her at the beginningof the episode the counselor
(26:41):
whose student where everythingwas fine, ended up being
hospitalized.
Six months after that crisis,maria completely restructured
the way she was approachingstudent connection.
She got rid of the minutemeetings and she implemented
teacher consultation.
She started using that minutemeeting time to deliver Tier 1
(27:03):
in classrooms.
She trained teachers torecognize warning signs and then
later a teacher approached herabout a student that was showing
concerning signs.
They recognized the signsbecause of the training Maria
provided and that student wasconnected with intensive
counseling supports before theyreached crisis level.
(27:24):
That didn't happen becauseMaria saw that student for 90
seconds, but because she built asystem that was able to truly
see the student.
That's the power of choosingimpact over activity, depth over
documentation and relationshipsover record keeping.
(27:48):
So what is my final grade forminute meetings?
I've talked up down and aroundthem and I'm sure it will come
as no surprise that I'm going togive minute meetings a D.
They get points for goodintentions and maybe reducing
stigma around seeing the schoolcounselor, but they lose points
(28:09):
for everything else.
They have a weak evidence base,the opportunity costs are
tremendous, there are potentiallegal and ethical risks and a
fundamental misunderstanding ofwhat equity actually means.
But more than that, they get aD because, quite frankly, they
(28:29):
represent everything wrong withschool counseling's relationship
to evidence, because we'vechosen what feels good over what
works and we've chosen whatlooks good over what we know
actually helps.
And, my friend, our studentsdeserve better.
(28:50):
So as we wrap up, here's onefinal thought.
The next time you see a schoolcounselor posting about their
minute meetings with pride,don't judge them.
They're trying their best to doright by kids with the best
information that they have.
But now you have betterinformation, you know there's a
(29:11):
gap between what makes us feelproductive and what actually
produces results.
So the question becomes nowthat you know better, will you
do better?
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
In my next episode I'm going tobe talking about
(29:31):
confidentiality and there'sgoing to be some stuff in there
that's going to kind of twistyour brain a little bit.
So keep listening and I'll beback soon.
Until then, I hope you have thebest day.
Take care.
A 13-year-old is hospitalized for severe
depression.
His school counselor had justtalked to him three weeks
earlier.
The school counselor haddocumentation proving that she
contacted the student.
She had a color-codedspreadsheet showing completion
(00:20):
of all of her minute meetings,but she didn't have the one
thing that might have helped thestudent sooner.
She didn't have real insightinto his struggles.
So what went wrong and why arethousands of school counselors
making the same mistake rightnow?
(00:42):
Is it you that's coming up?
Hey, school counselor, welcomeback In this episode of our
graded series.
We're examining something that'sbecome almost folklore in our
field minute meetings.
The uncomfortable truth is thatminute meetings didn't come
from research.
(01:02):
They came from counselor blogsand spread like wildfire because
they looked good and soundedproactive.
I'll share what the evidenceactually shows, the legal risks
most counselors don't know about, and why this practice might be
undermining the very studentsit claims to serve.
So if you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, some
(01:24):
clarity on your work and alittle bit of rebellion, you're
going to be in the right place.
I'm Steph Johnson, and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast.
Picture this it's 4.37 pm on aTuesday and Maria Santos I'm
changing their details forprivacy.
(01:45):
She sits in her clutteredschool counseling office staring
at her computer screen and rowafter row of Google Form
responses are scrolling pastFine, good, fine, fine, good,
okay, no problems.
She's just finished her minutemeetings for the year.
All 387 students on her middleschool caseload checked off in
(02:11):
nice, neat little rows.
She should feel accomplishedright.
But Maria feels empty becauseone of these students who said
they were fine, who'd smiledpolitely and said everything was
great during his 90-secondcheck-in, was hospitalized after
(02:32):
a severe mental health crisis.
The student got the help heneeded, but the question that
haunted Maria, the schoolcounselor, and really should
haunt all of us, was this howdid a so-called comprehensive
approach miss a kid who wasstruggling so deeply?
(02:54):
We'll come back to Maria'sstory, but here's the unsettling
part the practice that sherelied on minute meetings was
never built on research, and yetit's become one of our
profession's most unquestionedtraditions.
(03:15):
All right, so let's start byexamining where minute meetings
actually came from, because theorigin story may surprise you.
If you guessed research orpeer-reviewed journals or
evidence-based practiceframeworks, you'd be wrong.
Minute Meetings came from a2011 counselor blog post, and
(03:38):
the idea went viral throughPinterest and Teachers Pay
Teachers.
Think about that for a second.
Through Pinterest and TeachersPay Teachers.
Think about that for a secondwe have elevated a social media
trend to a professional standard.
It's like making TikTok dancespart of your curriculum because
the kids like them.
But meanwhile, evidence-basedalternatives, teacher
(04:03):
consultation programs, classroomSEL curricula, targeted
interventions like check-in,check-out, which we talked about
in the last episode those allsit unused because they're not
as Instagram-worthy as acolor-coded spreadsheet.
But to really understand how weall fell for this, we need to go
(04:24):
back in time to see where itall changed.
So picture 2003.
Asca has just published thefirst edition of its national
model revolutionizing how wewere supposed to think about
school counseling.
Suddenly, we weren't justguidance counselors anymore, we
(04:47):
were supposed to becomprehensive program managers.
That model was brilliant intheory Data-driven programming,
systematic delivery,accountability measures but by
2011, eight years later, manycounselors were either being
(05:07):
ignored or were drowning.
The national model demandedsophisticated program management
skills, administrative supportand time allocation that most of
us just didn't have.
Picture that school counselinglandscape.
We're trying to implement thiscomprehensive model.
(05:28):
Administrators are asking fordata we don't know how to
collect and we're desperate,absolutely freaking desperate,
to prove our worth.
And then, like a life raft in astormy sea this idea appears
Quick check-ins with everysingle student, one to two
(05:50):
minutes each, simple questions,log the responses, boom,
comprehensive contact achieved,data collected and ask a model,
boxes checked.
It spread like wildfire becauseit promised all the things we
so desperately wanted Equity,data collection, impressing our
(06:17):
administrators.
We didn't ask for research, wedidn't demand validation, we
just believed in it because itfelt right and it looked good in
it because it felt right and itlooked good.
But here's what we missed.
Good intentions don't guaranteegood outcomes.
Now, before we go further, Iwant you to pause this episode
for just a minute, really, andgo look at your minute meeting
(06:40):
spreadsheet.
Or, if you don't do them,imagine one minute meeting
spreadsheet.
Or, if you don't do them,imagine one.
What do you see when you lookat those responses, row after
row of good and excellent, or 3,4, 4, 3, 2, if you're asking
scaling questions.
Now ask yourself is that trulydata that moves the needle or is
(07:08):
it theater?
Think about it for just aminute.
Keep that image in your mind,those rows of all of those fine
responses, as I tell you about astudent named Marcus.
Marcus was in the eighth grade.
He was always in the same desk,third row back right side,
(07:31):
closest to the door.
His school counselor wouldlater realize that he'd been
claiming that spot because itgave him the quickest escape
route out of the classroom.
When his school counselor,janet, called him for his minute
meeting, marcus did what eighthgraders do.
He gave the expected answersHow's home?
(07:53):
Fine, school going okay?
Yeah, feeling safe.
Uh-huh, Anything you want totalk about?
No, I'm good.
Janet noted his responses inher spreadsheet 90 seconds check
mark next to his name.
Next student Three months later, marcus was hospitalized for
(08:14):
severe depression.
Turns out his parents weregoing through a really brutal
divorce.
He was sleeping in the car somenights just to avoid the drama
and fighting and shouting.
His grades were tanking, but hewas too ashamed or maybe too
proud or maybe too scared to sayanything.
(08:37):
In that minute meeting Janet hadseen Marcus.
She had documentation provingthat she had made contact with
him, but she hadn't reached him.
And that's the differencebetween activity and impact.
Here's the part that stillbothers Janet.
While she was spending 30 hourson minute meetings that year,
(09:02):
she missed the real warningsigns and opportunities to help.
Marcus's English teacher hadnoticed he was falling asleep in
class.
His PE teacher saw him wearingthe same clothes multiple days
on end and the custodian relayedthat he was often the last to
leave the building.
The system that could havecaught Marcus was right there,
(09:24):
only no one was looking at it.
And that brings us to theuncomfortable truth we need to
face about what minute meetingsreally are, and I need you to
hear this because it's going tochallenge everything you believe
about minute meetings.
They are not equitable, they'reperformative.
(09:46):
You and I both know that realequity does not mean giving
every student the same thing.
It means giving every personwhat they need.
So when you give yourtrauma-affected student the same
one-minute check-in as yourhigh-achieving, well-supported
student, you're not practicingequity, you're practicing
(10:10):
equality, and equality in aworld of unequal needs is
actually inequitable.
Think about it this way If youhad a hospital where every
patient, from the person with abroken finger to the person
having a heart attack attack,got exactly two minutes with the
(10:30):
doctor, would you call thatgood medicine or would you call
it malpractice?
So why do we accept that inschool counseling?
Let me give you some numbersthat should make you feel really
uncomfortable, because I spentweeks searching for research
(10:51):
supporting minute meetings.
I looked in academic databases,counseling journals, research
reviews, and you know what Ifound?
Nothing, absolutely nothing.
The closest thing that I couldfind was a 2023 study from India
(11:12):
about five-minute meetings.
It was a different practice,different context, different
student population, but that'sas close as I could get.
Meanwhile, we haveevidence-based alternatives that
actually work.
Teacher consultation andtraining programs have shown
remarkable success inidentifying at-risk students.
(11:34):
Classroom-based SEL curriculumsreach everyone while building
universal coping skills.
And Check In Check Out eventhough I gave it a hard time in
the last episode has evidenceshowing it actually changes
student outcomes for the rightstudents.
But check-in check-out doesn'tphotograph well and teacher
(11:58):
training doesn't fit in aPinterest pin.
We chose the trendy over thetested.
Now let me be very real,because if you've been doing
minute meetings and believingthat it was best practice, I'm
with you.
I did them too.
I remember sitting in my officeone day.
(12:20):
It was raining outside Iremember that because that's
pretty unusual for my neck ofthe woods and I was hearing the
rain patter on the glass dooroutside of my office because, of
course, I did not have a windowright and I had a student in my
office who was telling me theabsolute worst story I had heard
(12:42):
or have ever heard in my schoolcounseling career.
I will never forget theexpression on her face and
having to make phone calls tolocal authorities to help us
handle the situation.
And as I sat there looking atthis student who was drowning in
(13:03):
the circumstances of a realityshe could not escape.
I had seen them before, I haddata on them, but I'd failed
them, because one or two minutesisn't relationship building,
it's relationship performance.
And later that afternoon I justsat and stared at all of my use
(13:27):
of time data and my minutemeeting spreadsheet results, all
of those color-coded cells, allthat beautiful data, and I
asked myself a question thatchanged a lot about how I saw
myself as a school counselor AmI measuring what matters or just
what's easy to measure?
(13:47):
That question, years ago,planted a seed that took a while
to fully grow, I'll admit,because even after I stopped
doing minute meetings myself, Icontinued to see them as a
reasonable option when schoolcounselors asked for advice.
They weren't ideal, but theyseemed harmless, until I decided
(14:11):
to really dig into the researchon minute meetings for this
episode, and I was actuallyplanning to give them a little
bit more of a balanced critique.
I wanted to acknowledge theproblems but also accept them as
a decent starting point forcounselors who are overwhelmed.
But what I found or ratherdidn't find changed everything.
(14:33):
Even that dramatic day yearsago in my school counseling
office wasn't enough tocompletely shift my thinking,
but I did change it in a hotsecond when I realized that
there is a complete absence ofresearch supporting minute
meetings, and everything thatminute meetings claim to
(14:53):
accomplish can be done betterthrough systematic campus data
analysis.
Y'all.
Here's what I've realizedSchool counselors gravitate
toward minute meetings becausethey feel manageable.
Pulling kids in for one or twominute conversations feels
doable when you feel like yourhair is on fire every day and
(15:15):
people are evaluating youthrough a magnifying glass.
But diving into attendancepatterns and discipline,
referrals and gradedistributions and student survey
data feels intimidating.
Here is the truth.
If you can get past the initialintimidation of a real campus
data dig, your school will betransformationally better for it
(15:39):
and, instead of collectingshallow responses from everybody
, you're going to be able toidentify actual patterns, real
needs and systematic gaps thatimpact student outcomes.
That realization led me to dosome math and when you hear
(15:59):
these numbers, you're going tounderstand why I am so concerned
.
Let's talk about what minutemeetings really cost us, because
the math is brutal 500 studentstimes two minutes equals 16
hours at a minimum.
But then we have to factor inother things Transitions,
(16:21):
walking to classrooms waitingfor teachers to send students
out, walking to classroomswaiting for teachers to send
students out, relationshipattempts because you can't just
jump into personal questionswithout some sort of warmth or
who you are Then factor incrisis disclosures that you
can't just cut off when thetimer goes off, on top of all of
the other baloney lunch dutiesand morning duties and class
(16:43):
coverage and meetings and allthe other things you have going
on.
In my estimation you're lookingat nearly a month of school
counseling time.
But that's not even the realcost.
What about opportunity cost?
Because every hour spent onminute meetings is an hour not
spent training teachers torecognize depression, not spent
(17:08):
with the student who's cutting,or the kid whose parents are
divorcing, or the teenagercontemplating whether their life
is still worth living.
We are stealing from studentswho desperately need our
expertise to feed a practicethat makes us feel productive.
And if that's not concerningenough, there are also legal
(17:32):
issues we need to discuss.
You may not realize it becausesome of this is fairly new, but
minute meetings might violatestudent privacy laws in your
state.
New legislation in states likemy home state of Texas and in
Florida restrictcounselor-initiated
(17:52):
conversations about personaltopics without parental consent.
So if you're still doinguniversal minute meetings asking
about home life or feelings,you could be putting yourself in
legal jeopardy.
Texas Family Code Section32.004 limits when counselors
can initiate counselingconversations without parental
(18:15):
consent.
We can only do so in specificcircumstances suspected abuse,
suicide risk or substancedependency.
Florida's Chapter 1014 Parents'Bill of Rights establishes
parental authority overchildren's mental health
decisions.
Virginia requires writtenparental consent or opt-out
(18:36):
procedures for personal orsocial counseling under 8VAC
20-620-10.
And Ohio's House Bill 8, passedin December of 2024, now
requires schools to notifyparents of any counseling
services provided to students.
The landscape is shiftingtoward greater parental
(19:00):
involvement in student mentalhealth conversations, making
universal minute meetingsincreasingly problematic.
But beyond those legal risks,there's also ethical concerns,
because when we mandatedisclosure from students who
don't want or need ourintervention, we're not
providing support.
(19:21):
We're conducting surveillance.
And for students who'veexperienced trauma, being forced
to answer personal questionsfrom an authority figure can be
re-traumatizing, not healing.
So what do we do?
Instead, let's talk about thealternatives to the minute
(19:43):
meeting.
Approach to the minute meetingapproach.
Imagine a school counselor namedMrs Martinez.
Three years ago, she completelytransformed her program and,
instead of minute meetings, sheimplemented teacher consultation
.
She trains teachers torecognize warning signs through
(20:06):
structured observation, insteadof collecting fine and good
responses.
She built a referral systemthat catches kids before they
hit crisis.
As a result, her campusidentifies at-risk students
earlier and more accurately.
She can provide targetedintervention to kids who
(20:26):
actually need it, and she hasthe time, the actual time, to
build deep relationships withstudents who are experiencing
crisis.
Teachers approach her aboutstudents showing concerning
signs and the teachers recognizethose signs because of the
training the school counselor isproviding.
(20:48):
Then students are connectedwith intensive counseling,
supports or family resources orreferrals or whatever it is that
they need.
It's the difference betweenbeing busy and being effective.
It's evidence-based,equity-minded and life-changing
(21:10):
for students.
Now I know, as you're listening,you may be pushing back a
little bit, and I want toaddress some of the things you
may be thinking about, becauseyour concerns are real and they
do matter.
What about this one?
I hear this one a lot and Ieven said this myself.
Maybe my minute meeting planteda seed for a kid.
(21:34):
Maybe they knew they could cometo me because of that contact.
And you're right, prevention isimportant, but there's a
difference between relationshipbuilding and relationship
performing.
(21:54):
Real prevention happens throughyour Tier 1 programming, where
everyone's learning copingskills, or through training
teachers to recognize warningsigns, or creating a school
culture where seeking help isnormalized.
These approaches actuallyprevent problems instead of just
documenting that we asked aboutthem.
(22:15):
Okay, so what aboutimplementation?
Maybe you're thinking teachertraining needs time that I don't
have.
Check-in check-out is a levelof coordination that's just not
possible with what I've beentasked with on my campus.
So minute meetings might not beperfect, but they're doable and
at least they're something.
So in that situation I wouldsuggest starting small.
(22:40):
Pick one evidence-basedpractice and implement it well,
rather than doing minutemeetings poorly.
Maybe you teach five teachershow to use a structured
observation.
Maybe it's implementingcheck-in check-out with three
appropriate students instead ofminute meetings with 300.
(23:00):
Let's make our efforts and ourtime count, because once
administrators start seeingresults from those small starts,
they often find resources theyswore they didn't have for you.
And then I also hear people saythat their students tell them
that these minute meetingcheck-ins are almost some of the
(23:21):
only times that adults ask howthey're doing are almost some of
the only times that adults askhow they're doing.
If your minute meeting is theonly caring adult contact the
student has, then we have a muchbigger problem on your campus
and the minute meetings are justmasking it.
In that case, you need teacherstrained to build relationships.
You should be creatingmentorship programs and
(23:43):
establishing a school culturewhere every adult is attuned to
students' well-being.
Band-aids don't heal brokenbones, and I'm not saying that
kind of change is easy and thatthere aren't real barriers to
implementation, but I am sayingthat hard doesn't mean it's
impossible and the cost of notchanging the cost to our
(24:08):
students and our profession andour own integrity is too high to
not make the jump.
So what do we do instead?
Let's build a roadmap for yourpath forward.
Let's build a roadmap for yourpath forward.
First, we have to let go ofbelieving that every student
(24:29):
needs individual counseling.
Contact my friend, some kidsare thriving.
They have strong supportsystems, good coping skills and
healthy relationships, and ourjob isn't to manufacture
problems where none currentlyexist, like it seems we attempt
(24:54):
to do in minute meetings.
It's to be available whenstudents need us.
Secondly, we need to embrace thepower of systems, especially
with campus sizes like we're allrunning these days.
Instead of individual check-inswith everyone, we need to build
robust referral systems.
We need to train teachers torecognize warning signs and help
(25:14):
them create classroomenvironments where students feel
safe seeking help.
And then, when we find thosestudents who do need more
intensive supports, we are ableto give them what they actually
need Evidence-basedinterventions, check-in,
check-out, trauma-informed groupcounseling, family consultation
, genuine relationships andreferrals to outside resources.
(25:39):
And the beautiful thing is,when you stop trying to reach
everyone, you finally have timeto help someone.
If you are ready to move beyondminute meetings but you feel
intimidated by that campus datadig I mentioned.
That's exactly what I helpschool counselors do inside of
(26:00):
my data discussions cohort in mySchool for School Counselors
mastermind, because once you seewhat that real data analysis
can reveal about your students'needs, you'll never want to go
back to collecting good, good,fine and excellent responses.
This isn't about a massiveschool counseling program
(26:20):
overhaul.
Just take one small step towardmore evidence-based practice
that has the potential toactually change outcomes.
And speaking of creating change, let me tell you what happened
to Maria.
Remember her at the beginningof the episode the counselor
(26:41):
whose student where everythingwas fine, ended up being
hospitalized.
Six months after that crisis,maria completely restructured
the way she was approachingstudent connection.
She got rid of the minutemeetings and she implemented
teacher consultation.
She started using that minutemeeting time to deliver Tier 1
(27:03):
in classrooms.
She trained teachers torecognize warning signs and then
later a teacher approached herabout a student that was showing
concerning signs.
They recognized the signsbecause of the training Maria
provided and that student wasconnected with intensive
counseling supports before theyreached crisis level.
(27:24):
That didn't happen becauseMaria saw that student for 90
seconds, but because she built asystem that was able to truly
see the student.
That's the power of choosingimpact over activity, depth over
documentation and relationshipsover record keeping.
(27:48):
So what is my final grade forminute meetings?
I've talked up down and aroundthem and I'm sure it will come
as no surprise that I'm going togive minute meetings a D.
They get points for goodintentions and maybe reducing
stigma around seeing the schoolcounselor, but they lose points
(28:09):
for everything else.
They have a weak evidence base,the opportunity costs are
tremendous, there are potentiallegal and ethical risks and a
fundamental misunderstanding ofwhat equity actually means.
But more than that, they get aD because, quite frankly, they
(28:29):
represent everything wrong withschool counseling's relationship
to evidence, because we'vechosen what feels good over what
works and we've chosen whatlooks good over what we know
actually helps.
And, my friend, our studentsdeserve better.
(28:50):
So as we wrap up, here's onefinal thought.
The next time you see a schoolcounselor posting about their
minute meetings with pride,don't judge them.
They're trying their best to doright by kids with the best
information that they have.
But now you have betterinformation, you know there's a
(29:11):
gap between what makes us feelproductive and what actually
produces results.
So the question becomes nowthat you know better, will you
do better?
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
In my next episode I'm going tobe talking about
(29:31):
confidentiality and there'sgoing to be some stuff in there
that's going to kind of twistyour brain a little bit.
So keep listening and I'll beback soon.
Until then, I hope you have thebest day.
Take care.
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