September 1, 2025 • 33 mins
What if the tools you’ve been told to use as a school counselor are actually working against you?
In this highlights reel, I’m recapping eight of the field’s most popular practices and giving you the real verdict on each.
You’ll hear the truths nobody disputes, the traps that keep counselors spinning their wheels, and the takeaways you can actually use on a real campus.
I’ll even hand you the one-liners and micro-actions you can take straight into your next meeting.
But this isn’t just a recap. It’s a truth bomb episode.
By the end, you’ll know what to keep, what to ditch, and how to defend those choices when the pressure to “do more” shows up.
Hit play and let’s level up.
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⭐️ Want support with real-world strategies that actually work on your campus? We’re doing that every day in the School for School Counselors Mastermind. Come join us! ⭐️
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All names, stories, and case studies in this episode are fictionalized composites drawn from real-world circumstances. Any resemblance to actual students, families, or school personnel is coincidental. Details have been altered to protect privacy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here in the South, one of the ultimate love
languages is knowing how to makegood gravy, biscuits and gravy
for a Sunday breakfast, chickenfried steak smothered in good
gravy or mashed potatoes.
My mother makes the mostincredible gravy.
I mean it is delicious, andwhen I got married and I moved
(00:25):
into my own home, I thought thatmaking her gravy would be easy.
I'd watched her do it for yearson our stovetop and it looks so
simple, but y'all it was not.
Turns out.
Watching somebody master theircraft and actually doing it
yourself are completelydifferent things.
(00:47):
Mom's gravy is more than justflour and milk.
It's years of knowing when theroux is ready, how much
seasoning feels right and whento trust her instincts over any
recipe that anybody would giveher.
That's exactly what's happeningin school counseling.
We are trying to replicatemastery by following
(01:12):
step-by-step instructionscreated by people who've never
stood in our kitchens.
They don't know whatingredients we have on hand,
they don't know how fast we'rebeing asked to cook or how hot
the stove is, and when ourresults don't measure up, we
blame ourselves instead ofquestioning whether we're using
(01:34):
the right recipe at all.
So in this episode we are goingto throw out a lot of very
popular recipes that have beenruining perfectly good school
counselors.
Hey, school counselor, welcomeback.
If you've been wondering whichpractices are actually helping
kids and which ones are justmaking you look busy, this is
(01:58):
your episode.
For the past eight weeks, I'vebeen grading our field's most
beloved tools.
Today I'm pulling it alltogether the best, the worst and
the ones you've been told youhave to do, even though the
research says otherwise.
But this isn't just a recap, myfriend.
This is your permission slip tostop doing theater and start
(02:21):
doing work that matters.
So if you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, some
clarity and maybe a little bitof rebellion, you are in the
right place.
I'm Steph Johnson and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast.
All right, before we dive intothis, let me tell you what this
isn't.
This isn't about roastingtrends or tearing down people
(02:45):
who believe in these tools.
This is about freeing you fromperformative work so you can do
the powerful work on your campus.
If you're new to this podcastseries, this highlights reel is
going to be like a quick on-rampfor you.
I'm going to give you the bigpicture.
I'm going to show you whichfull episodes you might want to
(03:08):
queue up next, and if you'vebeen with me since episode one,
this is going to help youconnect the dots between all the
things we've ever talked abouton the podcast and make wiser
choices with your time.
So today, for each tool, I'mgoing to give you my verdict and
yes, I've been actually gradingthese, just like a report card,
(03:28):
from A to F, and that grade isbased on three criteria Does the
research support it, does itwork in real school conditions
and does it help or harm schoolcounselors who are trying to do
their job?
Most of these tools are gettinggrades that their creators
(03:48):
don't like, but I'm going toshare the truth.
I'm going to share the trapsthat catch a lot of school
counselors, and for each andevery approach, I'm going to
give you a takeaway that you canuse as soon as you want to.
All right, so are you ready?
Let's start with the biggestsacred cow of all.
(04:10):
The ASCA national modelreceived a D in episode number
157.
Picture this it's your firstweek on a new campus, the office
still smells like somebodyelse's coffee and your principal
wants to sit down and talk withyou about your expectations and
(04:33):
responsibilities.
You don't have any class listsyet, but you do have a voice in
your head saying build acomprehensive program, define,
manage, deliver, assess.
Follow the ASCA national model.
So you start mapping lessons,you schedule groups, you color
code your calendar and by weektwo you're already feeling like
(04:57):
you're burning out.
Your walkie is going offnonstop.
Somebody needs 504 information,another kid needs crisis
intervention.
You're covering classes, doinglunch duty and you're wondering
why you're already failing.
Here's what's true about theASCA national model.
It gave the school counselingprofession some language and
(05:21):
structure when we were reallyscattered.
It helped us understand thecharges to define our programs,
manage our resources, deliverservices and assess impact.
And in a vacuum, that frameworkmakes perfect sense.
But reality in schools doesn'tlive in that vacuum.
(05:45):
Most of us are handled thisideal model with zero
infrastructure to actually makeit possible.
Student to counselor ratios areoff the charts, non-counseling
duties multiply like rabbits andyou're told to advocate, print
your time charts and educateyour administrator about what
(06:06):
you should be doing.
That setup makes you feel likethe problem Instead of revealing
what the real problem is thateducational systems refuse to
change while simultaneouslydemanding that you perform at an
impossible standard.
(06:27):
So treat the ASCA national modelas a reference guide.
Do not use it as a ruler forsitting in judgment on yourself.
You can use its language to setboundaries, but don't use it to
beat yourself up.
If your campus cannot resourcea comprehensive school
(06:49):
counseling program, stop gradingyourself by comprehensive
standards.
So if you've been blamingyourself for not hitting that
magical 80-20 ratio, I want youto remember you weren't given
backup.
You were given a script.
If you want to hear more aboutthat, you can go back just eight
(07:12):
episodes or so to our ASCANational Model episode, episode
157.
I'll link to that in the showdescription so you can hop right
on over there if you want tohear more.
All right, so that ASCAnational model promises
(07:35):
structure.
But what happens when yourcampus demands the appearance of
collaboration without thatsupport?
Sometimes the pressure toappear comprehensive sends us
reaching for tools that lookdata-driven and inclusive, tools
like needs assessments, whichseem like the responsible way
forward until they bury youalive.
So next we'll move on to thehighlights for episode 158,
(08:01):
needs assessments.
They received a C so not agreat score either.
If you remember your first weekson a new campus, you probably
wanted to hit the ground runningshow initiative.
So you fired up a Google formand crafted the perfect needs
assessment and this felt likethe responsible, data-driven way
(08:26):
to get started right.
You had this vision in yourhead of teachers feeling heard
and administrators beingimpressed and creating a clear
roadmap for your year, but whatyou got instead was less roadmap
and more junk drawer.
It was a wish list of everysingle thing that anyone on your
(08:48):
campus could think of.
The truth about needsassessments is that they can
trap you by drowning you beforeyou even begin.
Your stakeholders end upgenerating this unfiltered list
that is almost impossible toprioritize, and once you open
that suggestion box, peopleexpect you to deliver.
(09:10):
And when you don't deliver allthose things, or you simply
can't, you become the counselorwho asked for input but didn't
listen.
So instead of clarity on yourschool counseling program, you
get pressure, and instead offocus, you get scattered in a
hundred different directions.
(09:32):
So when you consider needsassessments, don't crowdsource
yourself into burnout.
You can use needs assessmentsas a tool, maybe, but don't use
them as your starting line.
Asking everyone what they wantcan turn you into the school's
junk drawer.
(09:52):
So if you're feeling pressureto run a needs assessment, stop
first and ask what specificquestions am I trying to answer?
Then decide if a needsassessment survey is truly the
best way, or if your time wouldbe better spent observing,
(10:12):
listening in meetings orchecking the existing campus
data.
And speaking of pressure todeliver quick results, let's
talk about the intervention thatpromised you it could solve
everything in just six weeks.
Hear me laugh when I say thatwe're talking about short-term
(10:38):
counseling.
In episode 158, I gaveshort-term counseling a B minus,
so a little bit better than theASCA national model and the
needs assessments, but not quitea gold star just yet.
So even if we choose not to runthings like needs assessments,
we're still under pressure todeliver fast results.
(10:59):
Six weeks, goal-focused, neatlypackaged.
And the truth about short-termschool counseling is that it can
work.
Brief cognitive behaviortherapy or solution-focused
techniques can produce real,measurable gains.
And for students with very mildconcerns, six sessions might be
(11:20):
exactly what they need.
Sessions might be exactly whatthey need, but the trap that we
keep falling into is notrecognizing that student gains
can fade fast withoutreinforcement.
Students with trauma historiesdon't heal in six weeks, grief
does not resolve on our timelineand family dysfunction does not
(11:41):
respond to a curriculum.
When you try to squeeze deepstudent needs into shallow time
frames, you're essentiallygiving aspirin for a broken leg.
Short-term counseling isn't acure-all.
It's one tool in your toolboxand, like any tool, it only
works when you match it to theright job.
(12:03):
Like any tool, it only workswhen you match it to the right
job.
So before you launch your nextshort-term group or short-term
individual intervention, take 30seconds and name out loud,
literally say it, what yourapproach cannot do.
Then share that boundary withyour teachers and administrators
and maybe even parents.
(12:25):
Set realistic expectations fromday one, not week seven when
things start falling apart.
Now, speaking of expectationsthat don't match reality,
nothing gets pushed harder thesedays than school counselors
(12:45):
needing to prove their worth bytracking every single minute of
their day.
Think about the end of achaotic week.
You know, you worked your gutsout every second.
You touched tons of crises, yousolved 12 problems every day
before lunch.
But if somebody asked you toremember and account for all
(13:07):
those hours in neat littlecategories, you'd freeze right.
You'd stand there like a deerin headlights and say I know I
was busy, but I honestly can'tremember.
Enter use of time tracking thatI talked about in episode 160.
I gave use of time tracking asolid B.
(13:27):
It promised us that if wetracked our minutes proved our
alignment with our goals.
We could advocate for our roleand in theory, it sounded super
empowering.
However, it doesn't always workout that way.
When you do use of timetracking for you, by you, it can
(13:50):
be genuinely eye-opening.
It's one of my most favoritethings about it, because it will
start to show patterns that youhadn't noticed and it will help
you spot the time drains thatare not helping you serve kids.
It also gives you some reallyconcrete data for some tough
conversations, but when it'srequired and in many states it
(14:14):
is it feels like surveillance.
Only school counselors are askedto prove their time this way.
Not teachers, notadministrators, not other
support staff Typically just us.
My home state of Texas, as wellas several other states, have
written this into law, and whatwas supposed to protect your
(14:39):
role has now become thiscompliance exercise that leaves
you feeling like you're alwaysfalling short.
But even worse, most of thedata that you collect because
it's been mandated gets shovedinto random binders or
dashboards that no one everlooks at, much less interprets
correctly, and so all of thatlabor becomes nothing more than
(15:01):
expensive, busy work.
So the takeaway here is learnto appreciate use of time
tracking for what it can do foryou, not just because your state
or your district demands thatyou do it inordinately valuable
(15:24):
to school counselors, but theway that it's being mandated
makes it feel gross andoverwhelming and not good for
anybody.
So this week you could trylogging one week of your time
just for yourself.
You don't have to share it withanyone.
Just log it in a spreadsheetand then look at the pie chart
that you can generate from thatand say, does this reflect the
priorities of my campus or doesthis reflect problems within the
(15:46):
system?
And then start to look at howyou can adjust little pieces
based on what you discover.
All right, so from there we'regoing to turn to everyone's
favorite intervention that looksgreat on paper but doesn't
always match what students need.
(16:08):
In episode 161, I gave smallgroups a B minus and I started
it by talking about the day ateacher just walked up to me
very casually and said so whenare you going to pull Julio for
counseling?
And I asked what did I need topull them for counseling for?
And the teacher shrugged andshe goes.
I mean, I don't know, he's justalways in all the counseling
(16:30):
groups.
And I realized that counselinggroups had really kind of become
labels for kids and nottailored interventions.
When small groups are built onsolid research and they're
matched to actual student needsand they're delivered with
fidelity, they can produce realacademic and emotional gains.
(16:52):
There is research to back thisup.
But and this is a huge issuemost group plans floating around
online aren't therapeuticinterventions.
They're activity groups with acounseling label.
They look polished, they feelproductive, but they don't
actually shift behavior orskills.
(17:14):
Too often we grab resourcesfrom sites like Teachers Pay
Teachers that claim to beevidence-based when really
they're just borrowingcredibility because someone
somewhere read one researchpaper loosely aligned to their
topic.
So that's problem one.
But then when we pull studentsinto groups focused on deficits,
(17:37):
we risk stigmatizing them.
Plus, districts sometimesmandate groups just because the
ASCA model recommends them orschool improvement plans say you
should run them regardless ofwhether or not they actually fit
your campus and student needs.
So that turns your small groupsinto compliance theater instead
(17:57):
of effective support.
So the takeaway from this one isdon't just run groups because
it's expected.
Run them when they're the rightintervention, backed by actual
research and targeted tostudents who need exactly what
you're offering.
Because a coloring page aboutfeelings isn't counseling, it's
(18:18):
a coloring page.
Ask yourself three quickquestions for your groups.
What research supports thisapproach?
How will I know if it'sactually working and what's my
backup plan if a student doesn'tdo well?
And if you can't answer thosequestions in 60 seconds, you
need to rethink your, your group, all right.
(18:42):
So from groups let's move toanother widely celebrated
strategy that's supposed to bethe go-to gold standard of
behavior intervention Check-incheck-out.
I talked about this in episode162, where I gave check-in
check-out, or SECO, a grade of BIn that episode I told you
(19:06):
about Jake.
He was a fourth grader.
He had spiky hair that neverquite laid flat the way it was
supposed to and a grin thatcould light up any room.
When he wasn't melting down inthe hallway.
His teacher was at her wit'send.
Jake would interrupt lessons,blurt out answers and sometimes
get up and just wander around.
So I put him in check-incheckout and I was really
(19:26):
actually excited about it.
I followed the protocolperfectly Daily behavior, goals,
point sheets, morning check-inswhere we talk about his plan
for the day, and afternoondebriefs to celebrate wins and
problem solve the challenges.
And for six weeks it lookedlike we were doing a perfect
(19:50):
tier two intervention until Isat down to analyze the data.
Jake actually had morebehavioral incidents on the days
that we checked in than on thedays that we didn't.
I remember looking at thatspreadsheet feeling like I had
completely failed this kid whotrusted me every morning with
hopes to have a better day.
(20:13):
Check-in checkout has solidresearch behind it and for
students whose misbehavior isdriven by attention seeking,
this intervention is beautifulbecause it builds relationships,
it provides structure and itgives immediate feedback, which
are all the things these kidscrave.
But where it falls apart iswith kids like Jake, whose
(20:39):
behaviors come from things likeADHD or skill deficits or
sensory overload.
Seco can actually make thingsworse for these students because
we can't relationship our wayout of brain-based differences.
And here's what thoseenthusiastic training sessions
(21:00):
about check-in checkout don'ttell you that even in
large-scale research studies, 25to 40 percent of students on
check-in checkout needed moreintensive supports.
So it's not the magic bulletthat it's often presented as.
Districts that push check-incheckout as the default tier two
(21:22):
option are overselling it andthey're setting you up for
frustration when even yourperfect fidelity to the method
doesn't yield results.
Perfect implementation of thewrong intervention is still the
wrong intervention.
So before putting any studenton check-in, check-out.
(21:44):
Spend five minutes and do aquick function analysis what
happens right before thebehavior, what does a student
get from it, and, if the patterndoesn't point to attention
seeking, pause and reconsider.
All right, so we've recappedthe first six episodes of the
(22:06):
Graded series and I would lovefor you to go back and listen to
those episodes in theirentirety if they spark some
curiosity for you and you wantto hear more about what I have
to say about them.
(22:28):
Second, because listening to allof this, all of these tools
that don't work the way they'resupposed, to all of these
systems that are setting us upto fail, that information can
feel pretty heavy and you may besitting there thinking great,
steph.
So basically everything I'vebeen taught to do in school
counseling is wrong, and I getit.
I have been there and had thoseexact same thoughts.
There was a time in my careerthat I thought that I was the
(22:52):
problem.
I wondered if I just wasn'tsmart enough or maybe not
skilled enough or dedicatedenough to make these
interventions work the wayeveryone else was reporting them
.
And I'll be even more honestwith you.
I wrestle with providing thisinformation, sometimes Before
every podcast episode, everysocial media post, every school
(23:15):
counselor consultation, I stopand I ask myself is this too
negative?
Does this sound too harsh?
Am I being too politicallyincorrect to call out all of
these beloved practices?
But then I remind myself ofthis you deserve the
(23:36):
research-based truth more thanyou deserve all these pretty
little lies that are floatingaround the school counseling
world.
You are absolutely drowning inschool counseling fluff.
Everywhere else You're gettingpretty graphics that don't
change outcomes, feel-goodstrategies that don't survive
(23:56):
past Monday afternoon andinspirational quotes that won't
pay for the therapy you needafter the really, really rough
weeks and I say that tongue incheek, but I know you know what
I mean.
What I've decided is thisQuestioning broken tools isn't
negativity, it's wisdom and theability to recognize that you're
(24:20):
not failing the system, but thesystem is failing you is the
first step toward doingsustainable work that actually
matters on your campus.
Believe it or not, there's alot of power and optimism that
comes from not only recognizingthat the cards have been stacked
against you, but in being ableto really describe and discuss
(24:45):
those challenges from aresearch-based, matter-of-fact
perspective when it's needed onyour campus.
That's exactly what we do in mySchool for School Counselors
Mastermind, where we take thesefrustrations and we turn them
into articulate advocacy.
Now, with that understanding inplace, I want to show you two
(25:08):
more practices that perfectlyillustrate this gap between good
intentions and terribleoutcomes.
And these final two might hitclosest to home because they're
everywhere and they arepresented as the most caring,
most inclusive approaches thatwe could possibly use, as the
(25:32):
most caring, most inclusiveapproaches that we could
possibly use.
So imagine this nightmarescenario A student is
hospitalized for severedepression just weeks after
breezing through a minutemeeting with all of the standard
fine, good, okay responses.
Meeting with all of the standardfine, good, okay.
Responses.
On paper, that school counselorhad checked every box and
(25:53):
contacted every kid on campus toidentify needs, but in reality
the system failed that child.
The truth about minute meetings, which I talked about just a
few episodes ago and gave agrade of a D, is that they look
proactive, they promise equityin every student getting
(26:16):
FaceTime with the counselor andthey produce these really
colorful spreadsheets and chartsthat administrators love to see
.
But they're performative,they're not relational.
A one or two-minute check-incannot uncover deeper struggles
in students period and there's alegal reality to these that
(26:39):
nobody talks about Quick surveysor meetings that gather
sensitive information can fallunder federal rules like PPRA,
and without a clear educationalpurpose and parent awareness,
you're collecting data that canactually create liability.
So you've got to be careful.
But more toward the point, Ithink we need to really
(27:02):
recognize the fact that equitydoesn't mean giving every
student the same thing.
It means giving every studentwhat they need.
Minute meetings don'taccomplish equity.
They're equality disguised asequity, and there's a massive
difference there.
If you want to hear more aboutthat, scroll back just a couple
(27:24):
episodes and listen to theepisode on minute meetings.
But at the end of the day, hereis the question I want you to
consider Are you measuring whatmatters or just what's easy to
measure?
And instead of minute meetings,spend some time scanning your
school's naturally collecteddata Attendance patterns, grade
(27:46):
drops, discipline reports, nursevisits.
Those are going to show youwhere to focus faster and more
accurately than a spreadsheetfull of fine and good responses.
All right and last, let's tacklethe phrase that every counselor
has memorized and repeatedwithout question.
(28:07):
I'm talking aboutconfidentiality statements,
which I graded as a D.
You may be shocked by that ifyou haven't listened to this
information yet, because mostschool counselors, I would say,
would grade it an A or a B, no,no, no, it's nowhere close.
So when we talk aboutconfidentiality statements,
(28:30):
we're talking about things likethis what you say in here stays
in here unless you want to hurtyourself, hurt others or someone
is hurting you.
We have all said that.
We memorized it in grad school.
You probably printed it on aposter and you made it part of
your school counseling routine.
It sounds professional, clinicaland protective of kids, but in
(28:54):
schools it is a promise that wesimply cannot keep.
It was designed for clinicalcounseling, where formal
informed consent makes theseboundaries viable.
Private practice therapistshave signed paperwork and clear
legal frameworks and parentswho've explicitly agreed to
(29:17):
these limits.
But schools operate differently.
We work on implied consent, notformal agreements.
On implied consent, not formalagreements, and we're part of
educational teams, not isolatedtreatment providers, and those
factors alone change everythingabout confidentiality.
When we make a statement likethat and we make promises, we
(29:40):
can't keep.
Students feel betrayed.
The moment we have to involveother people, parents feel shut
out of their child's supportsystem, administrators see you
as a walking liability andlawmakers increasingly see
secrecy where we intendedprivacy.
(30:00):
That's why we're seeinglegislation in states like Texas
and Florida that restricts howschools handle sensitive student
information.
What we call privacy orconfidentiality the public often
hears as secrecy, so rewriteyour confidentiality script to
(30:21):
match the actual context.
Context Try something like whatyou share with me is private,
but sometimes we may have totalk to other people to help
keep you safe and successful andif that happens, we're going to
talk through it together first.
All right, so those have beenthe first eight episodes of the
(30:42):
Graded Podcast series.
Here's what I really want youto remember these tools are
often failing you, and to beable to recognize that
difference that the failure isin the tools and not in your
effort is wisdom.
And in our school counselingworld, now more than ever, you
(31:05):
need the reassurance and theconfidence that comes from
knowing it's not you doing itwrong.
You might have just been giventhe wrong recipe.
If this Highlights Reel gaveyou a little bit of relief or
maybe lit a fire of somerighteous anger in you, don't
stop here.
Go back and binge the fullepisodes, because each one goes
(31:28):
deeper than what we coveredtoday and they all give more
stories and research andstrategies that you can wake up
and start using the very nextmorning.
And if you're craving a placewhere these insights turn into
actual plans, where theseverdicts become action steps
that actually work in your reallive school situation.
That's exactly what happensinside the School for School
(31:52):
Counselors Mastermind.
I am in our weekly support chatsevery single week, giving
guidance just like what youheard today, except it's custom,
tailored to your campus, yourcaseload and your actual
challenges.
Tailored to your campus, yourcaseload and your actual
challenges.
You'll be surrounded by some ofthe smartest and most strategic
(32:13):
school counselors on the planet.
These are people who are movingpast this compliance theater
and into work that not onlychanges lives, but that they
genuinely enjoy day to day.
This is real support, realcases and real courage.
To stop pretending like theseridiculous mandates is the same
(32:34):
as working effectively, becausehere's the truth you didn't get
into this profession so that youcould decorate your program
with pretty interventions thatdon't work.
You came to lead change.
You came to be the person whostands between students and the
systems that don't serve them,and the mastermind is where
(32:57):
you're going to find the backupyou've been missing to do
exactly that.
All right, I'll be back soonwith another episode of the
School for School Counselorspodcast.
Until then, keep questioning,keep learning and keep putting
kids first.
I know you will.
I hope you have the best week.
(33:17):
Take care.
Here in the South, one of the ultimate love
languages is knowing how to makegood gravy, biscuits and gravy
for a Sunday breakfast, chickenfried steak smothered in good
gravy or mashed potatoes.
My mother makes the mostincredible gravy.
I mean it is delicious, andwhen I got married and I moved
(00:25):
into my own home, I thought thatmaking her gravy would be easy.
I'd watched her do it for yearson our stovetop and it looks so
simple, but y'all it was not.
Turns out.
Watching somebody master theircraft and actually doing it
yourself are completelydifferent things.
(00:47):
Mom's gravy is more than justflour and milk.
It's years of knowing when theroux is ready, how much
seasoning feels right and whento trust her instincts over any
recipe that anybody would giveher.
That's exactly what's happeningin school counseling.
We are trying to replicatemastery by following
(01:12):
step-by-step instructionscreated by people who've never
stood in our kitchens.
They don't know whatingredients we have on hand,
they don't know how fast we'rebeing asked to cook or how hot
the stove is, and when ourresults don't measure up, we
blame ourselves instead ofquestioning whether we're using
(01:34):
the right recipe at all.
So in this episode we are goingto throw out a lot of very
popular recipes that have beenruining perfectly good school
counselors.
Hey, school counselor, welcomeback.
If you've been wondering whichpractices are actually helping
kids and which ones are justmaking you look busy, this is
(01:58):
your episode.
For the past eight weeks, I'vebeen grading our field's most
beloved tools.
Today I'm pulling it alltogether the best, the worst and
the ones you've been told youhave to do, even though the
research says otherwise.
But this isn't just a recap, myfriend.
This is your permission slip tostop doing theater and start
(02:21):
doing work that matters.
So if you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, some
clarity and maybe a little bitof rebellion, you are in the
right place.
I'm Steph Johnson and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast.
All right, before we dive intothis, let me tell you what this
isn't.
This isn't about roastingtrends or tearing down people
(02:45):
who believe in these tools.
This is about freeing you fromperformative work so you can do
the powerful work on your campus.
If you're new to this podcastseries, this highlights reel is
going to be like a quick on-rampfor you.
I'm going to give you the bigpicture.
I'm going to show you whichfull episodes you might want to
(03:08):
queue up next, and if you'vebeen with me since episode one,
this is going to help youconnect the dots between all the
things we've ever talked abouton the podcast and make wiser
choices with your time.
So today, for each tool, I'mgoing to give you my verdict and
yes, I've been actually gradingthese, just like a report card,
(03:28):
from A to F, and that grade isbased on three criteria Does the
research support it, does itwork in real school conditions
and does it help or harm schoolcounselors who are trying to do
their job?
Most of these tools are gettinggrades that their creators
(03:48):
don't like, but I'm going toshare the truth.
I'm going to share the trapsthat catch a lot of school
counselors, and for each andevery approach, I'm going to
give you a takeaway that you canuse as soon as you want to.
All right, so are you ready?
Let's start with the biggestsacred cow of all.
(04:10):
The ASCA national modelreceived a D in episode number
157.
Picture this it's your firstweek on a new campus, the office
still smells like somebodyelse's coffee and your principal
wants to sit down and talk withyou about your expectations and
(04:33):
responsibilities.
You don't have any class listsyet, but you do have a voice in
your head saying build acomprehensive program, define,
manage, deliver, assess.
Follow the ASCA national model.
So you start mapping lessons,you schedule groups, you color
code your calendar and by weektwo you're already feeling like
(04:57):
you're burning out.
Your walkie is going offnonstop.
Somebody needs 504 information,another kid needs crisis
intervention.
You're covering classes, doinglunch duty and you're wondering
why you're already failing.
Here's what's true about theASCA national model.
It gave the school counselingprofession some language and
(05:21):
structure when we were reallyscattered.
It helped us understand thecharges to define our programs,
manage our resources, deliverservices and assess impact.
And in a vacuum, that frameworkmakes perfect sense.
But reality in schools doesn'tlive in that vacuum.
(05:45):
Most of us are handled thisideal model with zero
infrastructure to actually makeit possible.
Student to counselor ratios areoff the charts, non-counseling
duties multiply like rabbits andyou're told to advocate, print
your time charts and educateyour administrator about what
(06:06):
you should be doing.
That setup makes you feel likethe problem Instead of revealing
what the real problem is thateducational systems refuse to
change while simultaneouslydemanding that you perform at an
impossible standard.
(06:27):
So treat the ASCA national modelas a reference guide.
Do not use it as a ruler forsitting in judgment on yourself.
You can use its language to setboundaries, but don't use it to
beat yourself up.
If your campus cannot resourcea comprehensive school
(06:49):
counseling program, stop gradingyourself by comprehensive
standards.
So if you've been blamingyourself for not hitting that
magical 80-20 ratio, I want youto remember you weren't given
backup.
You were given a script.
If you want to hear more aboutthat, you can go back just eight
(07:12):
episodes or so to our ASCANational Model episode, episode
157.
I'll link to that in the showdescription so you can hop right
on over there if you want tohear more.
All right, so that ASCAnational model promises
(07:35):
structure.
But what happens when yourcampus demands the appearance of
collaboration without thatsupport?
Sometimes the pressure toappear comprehensive sends us
reaching for tools that lookdata-driven and inclusive, tools
like needs assessments, whichseem like the responsible way
forward until they bury youalive.
So next we'll move on to thehighlights for episode 158,
(08:01):
needs assessments.
They received a C so not agreat score either.
If you remember your first weekson a new campus, you probably
wanted to hit the ground runningshow initiative.
So you fired up a Google formand crafted the perfect needs
assessment and this felt likethe responsible, data-driven way
(08:26):
to get started right.
You had this vision in yourhead of teachers feeling heard
and administrators beingimpressed and creating a clear
roadmap for your year, but whatyou got instead was less roadmap
and more junk drawer.
It was a wish list of everysingle thing that anyone on your
(08:48):
campus could think of.
The truth about needsassessments is that they can
trap you by drowning you beforeyou even begin.
Your stakeholders end upgenerating this unfiltered list
that is almost impossible toprioritize, and once you open
that suggestion box, peopleexpect you to deliver.
(09:10):
And when you don't deliver allthose things, or you simply
can't, you become the counselorwho asked for input but didn't
listen.
So instead of clarity on yourschool counseling program, you
get pressure, and instead offocus, you get scattered in a
hundred different directions.
(09:32):
So when you consider needsassessments, don't crowdsource
yourself into burnout.
You can use needs assessmentsas a tool, maybe, but don't use
them as your starting line.
Asking everyone what they wantcan turn you into the school's
junk drawer.
(09:52):
So if you're feeling pressureto run a needs assessment, stop
first and ask what specificquestions am I trying to answer?
Then decide if a needsassessment survey is truly the
best way, or if your time wouldbe better spent observing,
(10:12):
listening in meetings orchecking the existing campus
data.
And speaking of pressure todeliver quick results, let's
talk about the intervention thatpromised you it could solve
everything in just six weeks.
Hear me laugh when I say thatwe're talking about short-term
(10:38):
counseling.
In episode 158, I gaveshort-term counseling a B minus,
so a little bit better than theASCA national model and the
needs assessments, but not quitea gold star just yet.
So even if we choose not to runthings like needs assessments,
we're still under pressure todeliver fast results.
(10:59):
Six weeks, goal-focused, neatlypackaged.
And the truth about short-termschool counseling is that it can
work.
Brief cognitive behaviortherapy or solution-focused
techniques can produce real,measurable gains.
And for students with very mildconcerns, six sessions might be
(11:20):
exactly what they need.
Sessions might be exactly whatthey need, but the trap that we
keep falling into is notrecognizing that student gains
can fade fast withoutreinforcement.
Students with trauma historiesdon't heal in six weeks, grief
does not resolve on our timelineand family dysfunction does not
(11:41):
respond to a curriculum.
When you try to squeeze deepstudent needs into shallow time
frames, you're essentiallygiving aspirin for a broken leg.
Short-term counseling isn't acure-all.
It's one tool in your toolboxand, like any tool, it only
works when you match it to theright job.
(12:03):
Like any tool, it only workswhen you match it to the right
job.
So before you launch your nextshort-term group or short-term
individual intervention, take 30seconds and name out loud,
literally say it, what yourapproach cannot do.
Then share that boundary withyour teachers and administrators
and maybe even parents.
(12:25):
Set realistic expectations fromday one, not week seven when
things start falling apart.
Now, speaking of expectationsthat don't match reality,
nothing gets pushed harder thesedays than school counselors
(12:45):
needing to prove their worth bytracking every single minute of
their day.
Think about the end of achaotic week.
You know, you worked your gutsout every second.
You touched tons of crises, yousolved 12 problems every day
before lunch.
But if somebody asked you toremember and account for all
(13:07):
those hours in neat littlecategories, you'd freeze right.
You'd stand there like a deerin headlights and say I know I
was busy, but I honestly can'tremember.
Enter use of time tracking thatI talked about in episode 160.
I gave use of time tracking asolid B.
(13:27):
It promised us that if wetracked our minutes proved our
alignment with our goals.
We could advocate for our roleand in theory, it sounded super
empowering.
However, it doesn't always workout that way.
When you do use of timetracking for you, by you, it can
(13:50):
be genuinely eye-opening.
It's one of my most favoritethings about it, because it will
start to show patterns that youhadn't noticed and it will help
you spot the time drains thatare not helping you serve kids.
It also gives you some reallyconcrete data for some tough
conversations, but when it'srequired and in many states it
(14:14):
is it feels like surveillance.
Only school counselors are askedto prove their time this way.
Not teachers, notadministrators, not other
support staff Typically just us.
My home state of Texas, as wellas several other states, have
written this into law, and whatwas supposed to protect your
(14:39):
role has now become thiscompliance exercise that leaves
you feeling like you're alwaysfalling short.
But even worse, most of thedata that you collect because
it's been mandated gets shovedinto random binders or
dashboards that no one everlooks at, much less interprets
correctly, and so all of thatlabor becomes nothing more than
(15:01):
expensive, busy work.
So the takeaway here is learnto appreciate use of time
tracking for what it can do foryou, not just because your state
or your district demands thatyou do it inordinately valuable
(15:24):
to school counselors, but theway that it's being mandated
makes it feel gross andoverwhelming and not good for
anybody.
So this week you could trylogging one week of your time
just for yourself.
You don't have to share it withanyone.
Just log it in a spreadsheetand then look at the pie chart
that you can generate from thatand say, does this reflect the
priorities of my campus or doesthis reflect problems within the
(15:46):
system?
And then start to look at howyou can adjust little pieces
based on what you discover.
All right, so from there we'regoing to turn to everyone's
favorite intervention that looksgreat on paper but doesn't
always match what students need.
(16:08):
In episode 161, I gave smallgroups a B minus and I started
it by talking about the day ateacher just walked up to me
very casually and said so whenare you going to pull Julio for
counseling?
And I asked what did I need topull them for counseling for?
And the teacher shrugged andshe goes.
I mean, I don't know, he's justalways in all the counseling
(16:30):
groups.
And I realized that counselinggroups had really kind of become
labels for kids and nottailored interventions.
When small groups are built onsolid research and they're
matched to actual student needsand they're delivered with
fidelity, they can produce realacademic and emotional gains.
(16:52):
There is research to back thisup.
But and this is a huge issuemost group plans floating around
online aren't therapeuticinterventions.
They're activity groups with acounseling label.
They look polished, they feelproductive, but they don't
actually shift behavior orskills.
(17:14):
Too often we grab resourcesfrom sites like Teachers Pay
Teachers that claim to beevidence-based when really
they're just borrowingcredibility because someone
somewhere read one researchpaper loosely aligned to their
topic.
So that's problem one.
But then when we pull studentsinto groups focused on deficits,
(17:37):
we risk stigmatizing them.
Plus, districts sometimesmandate groups just because the
ASCA model recommends them orschool improvement plans say you
should run them regardless ofwhether or not they actually fit
your campus and student needs.
So that turns your small groupsinto compliance theater instead
(17:57):
of effective support.
So the takeaway from this one isdon't just run groups because
it's expected.
Run them when they're the rightintervention, backed by actual
research and targeted tostudents who need exactly what
you're offering.
Because a coloring page aboutfeelings isn't counseling, it's
(18:18):
a coloring page.
Ask yourself three quickquestions for your groups.
What research supports thisapproach?
How will I know if it'sactually working and what's my
backup plan if a student doesn'tdo well?
And if you can't answer thosequestions in 60 seconds, you
need to rethink your, your group, all right.
(18:42):
So from groups let's move toanother widely celebrated
strategy that's supposed to bethe go-to gold standard of
behavior intervention Check-incheck-out.
I talked about this in episode162, where I gave check-in
check-out, or SECO, a grade of BIn that episode I told you
(19:06):
about Jake.
He was a fourth grader.
He had spiky hair that neverquite laid flat the way it was
supposed to and a grin thatcould light up any room.
When he wasn't melting down inthe hallway.
His teacher was at her wit'send.
Jake would interrupt lessons,blurt out answers and sometimes
get up and just wander around.
So I put him in check-incheckout and I was really
(19:26):
actually excited about it.
I followed the protocolperfectly Daily behavior, goals,
point sheets, morning check-inswhere we talk about his plan
for the day, and afternoondebriefs to celebrate wins and
problem solve the challenges.
And for six weeks it lookedlike we were doing a perfect
(19:50):
tier two intervention until Isat down to analyze the data.
Jake actually had morebehavioral incidents on the days
that we checked in than on thedays that we didn't.
I remember looking at thatspreadsheet feeling like I had
completely failed this kid whotrusted me every morning with
hopes to have a better day.
(20:13):
Check-in checkout has solidresearch behind it and for
students whose misbehavior isdriven by attention seeking,
this intervention is beautifulbecause it builds relationships,
it provides structure and itgives immediate feedback, which
are all the things these kidscrave.
But where it falls apart iswith kids like Jake, whose
(20:39):
behaviors come from things likeADHD or skill deficits or
sensory overload.
Seco can actually make thingsworse for these students because
we can't relationship our wayout of brain-based differences.
And here's what thoseenthusiastic training sessions
(21:00):
about check-in checkout don'ttell you that even in
large-scale research studies, 25to 40 percent of students on
check-in checkout needed moreintensive supports.
So it's not the magic bulletthat it's often presented as.
Districts that push check-incheckout as the default tier two
(21:22):
option are overselling it andthey're setting you up for
frustration when even yourperfect fidelity to the method
doesn't yield results.
Perfect implementation of thewrong intervention is still the
wrong intervention.
So before putting any studenton check-in, check-out.
(21:44):
Spend five minutes and do aquick function analysis what
happens right before thebehavior, what does a student
get from it, and, if the patterndoesn't point to attention
seeking, pause and reconsider.
All right, so we've recappedthe first six episodes of the
(22:06):
Graded series and I would lovefor you to go back and listen to
those episodes in theirentirety if they spark some
curiosity for you and you wantto hear more about what I have
to say about them.
(22:28):
Second, because listening to allof this, all of these tools
that don't work the way they'resupposed, to all of these
systems that are setting us upto fail, that information can
feel pretty heavy and you may besitting there thinking great,
steph.
So basically everything I'vebeen taught to do in school
counseling is wrong, and I getit.
I have been there and had thoseexact same thoughts.
There was a time in my careerthat I thought that I was the
(22:52):
problem.
I wondered if I just wasn'tsmart enough or maybe not
skilled enough or dedicatedenough to make these
interventions work the wayeveryone else was reporting them
.
And I'll be even more honestwith you.
I wrestle with providing thisinformation, sometimes Before
every podcast episode, everysocial media post, every school
(23:15):
counselor consultation, I stopand I ask myself is this too
negative?
Does this sound too harsh?
Am I being too politicallyincorrect to call out all of
these beloved practices?
But then I remind myself ofthis you deserve the
(23:36):
research-based truth more thanyou deserve all these pretty
little lies that are floatingaround the school counseling
world.
You are absolutely drowning inschool counseling fluff.
Everywhere else You're gettingpretty graphics that don't
change outcomes, feel-goodstrategies that don't survive
(23:56):
past Monday afternoon andinspirational quotes that won't
pay for the therapy you needafter the really, really rough
weeks and I say that tongue incheek, but I know you know what
I mean.
What I've decided is thisQuestioning broken tools isn't
negativity, it's wisdom and theability to recognize that you're
(24:20):
not failing the system, but thesystem is failing you is the
first step toward doingsustainable work that actually
matters on your campus.
Believe it or not, there's alot of power and optimism that
comes from not only recognizingthat the cards have been stacked
against you, but in being ableto really describe and discuss
(24:45):
those challenges from aresearch-based, matter-of-fact
perspective when it's needed onyour campus.
That's exactly what we do in mySchool for School Counselors
Mastermind, where we take thesefrustrations and we turn them
into articulate advocacy.
Now, with that understanding inplace, I want to show you two
(25:08):
more practices that perfectlyillustrate this gap between good
intentions and terribleoutcomes.
And these final two might hitclosest to home because they're
everywhere and they arepresented as the most caring,
most inclusive approaches thatwe could possibly use, as the
(25:32):
most caring, most inclusiveapproaches that we could
possibly use.
So imagine this nightmarescenario A student is
hospitalized for severedepression just weeks after
breezing through a minutemeeting with all of the standard
fine, good, okay responses.
Meeting with all of the standardfine, good, okay.
Responses.
On paper, that school counselorhad checked every box and
(25:53):
contacted every kid on campus toidentify needs, but in reality
the system failed that child.
The truth about minute meetings, which I talked about just a
few episodes ago and gave agrade of a D, is that they look
proactive, they promise equityin every student getting
(26:16):
FaceTime with the counselor andthey produce these really
colorful spreadsheets and chartsthat administrators love to see
.
But they're performative,they're not relational.
A one or two-minute check-incannot uncover deeper struggles
in students period and there's alegal reality to these that
(26:39):
nobody talks about Quick surveysor meetings that gather
sensitive information can fallunder federal rules like PPRA,
and without a clear educationalpurpose and parent awareness,
you're collecting data that canactually create liability.
So you've got to be careful.
But more toward the point, Ithink we need to really
(27:02):
recognize the fact that equitydoesn't mean giving every
student the same thing.
It means giving every studentwhat they need.
Minute meetings don'taccomplish equity.
They're equality disguised asequity, and there's a massive
difference there.
If you want to hear more aboutthat, scroll back just a couple
(27:24):
episodes and listen to theepisode on minute meetings.
But at the end of the day, hereis the question I want you to
consider Are you measuring whatmatters or just what's easy to
measure?
And instead of minute meetings,spend some time scanning your
school's naturally collecteddata Attendance patterns, grade
(27:46):
drops, discipline reports, nursevisits.
Those are going to show youwhere to focus faster and more
accurately than a spreadsheetfull of fine and good responses.
All right and last, let's tacklethe phrase that every counselor
has memorized and repeatedwithout question.
(28:07):
I'm talking aboutconfidentiality statements,
which I graded as a D.
You may be shocked by that ifyou haven't listened to this
information yet, because mostschool counselors, I would say,
would grade it an A or a B, no,no, no, it's nowhere close.
So when we talk aboutconfidentiality statements,
(28:30):
we're talking about things likethis what you say in here stays
in here unless you want to hurtyourself, hurt others or someone
is hurting you.
We have all said that.
We memorized it in grad school.
You probably printed it on aposter and you made it part of
your school counseling routine.
It sounds professional, clinicaland protective of kids, but in
(28:54):
schools it is a promise that wesimply cannot keep.
It was designed for clinicalcounseling, where formal
informed consent makes theseboundaries viable.
Private practice therapistshave signed paperwork and clear
legal frameworks and parentswho've explicitly agreed to
(29:17):
these limits.
But schools operate differently.
We work on implied consent, notformal agreements.
On implied consent, not formalagreements, and we're part of
educational teams, not isolatedtreatment providers, and those
factors alone change everythingabout confidentiality.
When we make a statement likethat and we make promises, we
(29:40):
can't keep.
Students feel betrayed.
The moment we have to involveother people, parents feel shut
out of their child's supportsystem, administrators see you
as a walking liability andlawmakers increasingly see
secrecy where we intendedprivacy.
(30:00):
That's why we're seeinglegislation in states like Texas
and Florida that restricts howschools handle sensitive student
information.
What we call privacy orconfidentiality the public often
hears as secrecy, so rewriteyour confidentiality script to
(30:21):
match the actual context.
Context Try something like whatyou share with me is private,
but sometimes we may have totalk to other people to help
keep you safe and successful andif that happens, we're going to
talk through it together first.
All right, so those have beenthe first eight episodes of the
(30:42):
Graded Podcast series.
Here's what I really want youto remember these tools are
often failing you, and to beable to recognize that
difference that the failure isin the tools and not in your
effort is wisdom.
And in our school counselingworld, now more than ever, you
(31:05):
need the reassurance and theconfidence that comes from
knowing it's not you doing itwrong.
You might have just been giventhe wrong recipe.
If this Highlights Reel gaveyou a little bit of relief or
maybe lit a fire of somerighteous anger in you, don't
stop here.
Go back and binge the fullepisodes, because each one goes
(31:28):
deeper than what we coveredtoday and they all give more
stories and research andstrategies that you can wake up
and start using the very nextmorning.
And if you're craving a placewhere these insights turn into
actual plans, where theseverdicts become action steps
that actually work in your reallive school situation.
That's exactly what happensinside the School for School
(31:52):
Counselors Mastermind.
I am in our weekly support chatsevery single week, giving
guidance just like what youheard today, except it's custom,
tailored to your campus, yourcaseload and your actual
challenges.
Tailored to your campus, yourcaseload and your actual
challenges.
You'll be surrounded by some ofthe smartest and most strategic
(32:13):
school counselors on the planet.
These are people who are movingpast this compliance theater
and into work that not onlychanges lives, but that they
genuinely enjoy day to day.
This is real support, realcases and real courage.
To stop pretending like theseridiculous mandates is the same
(32:34):
as working effectively, becausehere's the truth you didn't get
into this profession so that youcould decorate your program
with pretty interventions thatdon't work.
You came to lead change.
You came to be the person whostands between students and the
systems that don't serve them,and the mastermind is where
(32:57):
you're going to find the backupyou've been missing to do
exactly that.
All right, I'll be back soonwith another episode of the
School for School Counselorspodcast.
Until then, keep questioning,keep learning and keep putting
kids first.
I know you will.
I hope you have the best week.
(33:17):
Take care.
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