March 3, 2025 • 23 mins
You know that moment—the banshee scream echoes down the hall, and suddenly, all eyes are on you. The walkies go off, teachers are calling your name, and once again, you’re expected to drop everything and handle the latest behavior meltdown.
If this sounds familiar, you’re not alone.
This time of year, behavior issues ramp up, and school counselors often find themselves at the center of the storm. But honestly, most of the advice out there on behavior intervention is not designed for you. You’re not a teacher managing a classroom. You’re not an administrator making discipline decisions. So what should your role be?
In this episode, we’re looking at:
✔ Why traditional behavior strategies don’t always work for school counselors
✔ The three biggest obstacles standing in your way
✔ Real, practical de-escalation techniques that actually work in the moment
✔ How to handle the pressure, the judgment, and the constant disruptions
And if you’re exhausted from being called to behavior crises over and over again, we’ve got support for you.
💡 The Behavior Breakthrough Kit is coming soon—practical, ready-to-use tools to help you navigate behavior intervention with confidence. [Click here to join the waitlist.]
💡 Want real-time troubleshooting and expert support? Join us inside the School for School Counselors Mastermind. Get weekly case consultations and practical strategies you won’t find anywhere else. [Click here to learn more]
Behavior intervention doesn’t have to drain you. Let’s talk about what actually works.
00:00 The Banshee Scream: A School Counselor's First Experience
01:25 Welcome to the School for School Counselors Podcast
02:09 The Reality of Behavior Intervention in Schools
03:32 Real Talk: Effective Behavior Intervention Strategies
04:10 The Authoritative Counselor Approach
05:30 Challenges in Behavior Intervention
10:43 Practical Techniques for De-escalation
20:00 Support and Resources for School Counselors
22:41 Conclusion: Navigating Behavior Intervention Together
**********************************
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We knew it as soon as we heard the banshee scream.
Do you know what I mean when Isay that?
That one yell, that one certainvoice, the tone just instantly
lets you know exactly whichstudent is in distress.
Because you've heard it so manytimes?
(00:20):
We were trained.
It was almost like Pavlov's dog.
As soon as we heard that shriekcoming down the hallway, we
sprung up, we grabbed ourwalkies, we took our earrings
out and we went to the rescue.
That was one of my very firstschool counseling jobs and I can
(00:40):
remember thinking in the backof my mind oh dear Lord, please
do not let me be the only one oncampus when this happens.
I don't want to be responsiblefor this situation on my own
Because, to be honest, I was alittle terrified.
This kiddo was unpredictable.
We weren't sure what his movewas going to be, and I wasn't
(01:04):
especially practiced in behaviorintervention and I think, too,
you know, when we show up tointervene in behavior concerns
on campus, because it's sounpredictable and because there
are so many moving parts to theprocess, it ends up feeling
super overwhelming.
(01:25):
Hey, welcome back to the Schoolfor School Counselors podcast.
I'm Steph Johnson.
I'm a full-time schoolcounselor, just like you on a
mission to make schoolcounseling feel more sustainable
and more enjoyable, because Iwant you to look forward to
walking through the doors ofyour school each and every day.
I want you to feel accomplishedand I want you to look forward
to walking through the doors ofyour school each and every day.
(01:45):
I want you to feel accomplishedand I want you to feel
confident.
And that's what this podcast isall about your weekly
masterclass on school counselingsuccess, a deep dive into the
information.
You need to feel like you havethe knowledge and the expertise
to do this amazing job that Iknow you were put on the planet
(02:07):
to carry out.
Now, most of us know aboutbehavior intervention all too
well, in that we are very, veryinvolved in it, and this time of
year, as we're heading intospring, we're going to be
noticing behaviors ramping upand y'all I can tell you from
(02:27):
talking with the members of mySchool for School Counselors
Mastermind it is everyone.
So we need to be talking aboutbehavior intervention.
We need to be sharing ourapproaches and supporting one
another through what feels likea more and more difficult
landscape.
(02:48):
But here's the thing.
I could dive into a bunch oftactics or techniques for
behavior intervention.
But there's two problems withthat.
Number one, you've probablyheard that all before.
And number two, has it reallybeen of great help to you?
You may have picked up a fewthings here or there that help
(03:10):
in behavior interventionsituations, but I'm also going
to bet that you were leftfeeling like there has to be
something more, especially whenyou're not in control of
staffing on your campus.
You're not in control of whogets pulled to de-escalate
behavior, especially when it'syou, and so, instead of talking
(03:34):
about all of these perfect worldpie-in-the-sky scenarios for
behavior intervention y'all,we're going to get real today.
I hope that you're lookingforward to this, because we're
going to have some real talkabout behavior intervention for
school counselors.
Now, if you've been listening tothe podcast for a while, you
(03:55):
may have heard an old episode.
I think it was about a year anda half ago.
Back in September 2023, I putout a podcast episode called
Unpacking School Discipline asurprising guide for school
counselors, and in that episode,I compared school counseling
behavior intervention approachesto parenting styles, and the
(04:18):
ultimate outcome of thatconversation is that we want to
be an authoritative counselor.
Do you remember your parentingstyles?
Authoritarian, authoritativeand permissive.
We want to be the authoritativecounselor.
We're giving firm, clearboundaries, but we're also
providing a lot of empathy andlove.
(04:47):
But y'all that's hard whenyou're constantly called to
de-escalate students in crisisor behavior meltdowns, and
especially when you see the samestudents over and over again.
It's exhausting.
And even if you have a greatmulti-tiered system or a great
behavior RTI framework whichmost experts will tell you is
(05:08):
the holy grail, it's still sotiring Between trying to
maintain your own schedule,getting pulled away from your
core counseling work and thatconstant feeling of being in the
spotlight anytime you arrive ina hallway or a classroom to
help with intervention.
It can be maddening.
(05:29):
So let's talk about some of thethings that are standing in
your way.
First is time.
We all know in our work we arejuggling a million things at
once, but then often we'reexpected to drop everything and
run across campus to help astudent re-regulate and y'all.
(05:50):
That never happens when it'sconvenient, right?
It's never when you havenothing going on.
It's when you're in the middleof a conversation, or you're
working on plans, or you'retrying to wrap up some sort of
important task, or even in themiddle of talking to another
student.
And then boom, all the walkiesgo off, Everybody starts looking
for you and you're needed to gosomewhere else.
(06:14):
The thing about this kind ofbehavior response is that the
disruption isn't just in themoment, it's not just when the
behavior is occurring and, youknow, maybe a little bit after
that it throws your entire dayoff, and if it happens often
enough, you know, maybe ithappens every couple of days,
(06:35):
gracious, even every day.
I've had some situations whereI've had students going off
almost every single day.
It is freaking draining.
You feel like you're constantlyspinning your wheels and you're
never, ever going to be able tocatch up.
One of the things that I seeschool counselors talk about
(06:55):
most is having lots of smallgroup counseling or counseling
lessons scheduled, because weknow students need consistency.
But then by the middle of theweek you've only had one of
those lessons or one of thosegroups, because the behavior
calls keep rolling in and by thetime the week is over, you're
(07:16):
starting to wonder why am I hereat all?
Why do I even try to schedulethis stuff if I'm going to
constantly be pulled away?
That leads to your secondobstacle, which is feeling like
you're overscheduled.
You start to get afraid toschedule small groups or lessons
, or even individual kids,because you know eventually
(07:38):
you're going to have to cancelsomebody.
And the worst part about it isyou want to show up for these
students, you want to buildconsistency, you want to provide
that support, but every timeyou have to leave that and head
toward a behavior concern, itchips away at your foundation of
(07:59):
proactive, structured supportfor your students.
It's like you're constantly ondefense instead of offense and
then you start thinking, well, Imean, should I be scheduling
things at all?
What's the point?
You could schedule someprotected time when behavior
calls are going to be handled byanother staff member.
You could try to carve out anhour a day, maybe a couple hours
(08:24):
, where you know you have someguaranteed student facing time.
But I also know that that's notpossible on a lot of campuses.
This is exactly why I don'timmediately schedule small
groups at the start of theschool year Y'all.
I have to wait.
I have to see what behaviorconcerns have arrived on my
campus, maybe which behaviorconcerns are kicking off again
(08:48):
and what adjustment concerns I'mgoing to be seeing before I
start scheduling a bunch offolks.
Is that opposite of how wetypically think of our
multi-tiered systems of support?
Yes, it is.
But here's the thing If you'rerunning a truly comprehensive
school counseling program that'saligned with multi-tiered
(09:08):
systems of support, you alsoknow you're not going to be
running a caseload of 1 to 700or 1 to 800, like so many school
counselors are doing.
So we're going to have to cutourselves a break here a little
bit.
Many school counselors aredoing so.
We're going to have to cutourselves a break here a little
bit.
The third roadblock and this isa huge one, this is one we don't
(09:29):
talk about enough is feelingincompetent.
You show up to an escalatedstudent issue, you are trying
everything you know and it feelslike it's not working.
And even worse, it feels likeeverybody's watching you and
that pressure can feel superoverwhelming.
It's like you're on a big stagein the spotlight and
(09:52):
everybody's watching you andwhispering can they do it?
You know you've read theresearch, you've practiced the
techniques, but still some daysit feels like nothing's landing.
I talk a lot about this kind ofbehavior hurdle in my
masterclass called BehaviorIntervention for School
Counselors.
(10:13):
We're getting ready to holdthat masterclass again in the
mastermind coming up on March23rd.
That's a Sunday, that's when wehave our masterclasses.
And if you not only need alittle additional behavior
guidance, but you would alsolike to troubleshoot in real
time y'all.
(10:33):
This masterclass is where it'sat.
You can find out moreinformation about that at
schoolforschoolcounselorscom.
Slash mastermind.
But back to the point.
What in the world do you do?
What are some practicaltechniques you can use for
de-escalation that are actuallygoing to work in the real world?
(10:54):
Let me see if I can help youwith some ideas.
Can help you with some ideas.
Number one walk slowly.
That seems so silly, doesn't it?
But I'm here to tell you Inoticed a significant change
when I started walkingdeliberately and intentionally
to behavior calls.
(11:14):
I don't get in a hurry, I don'trush because on the way, as I'm
walking at a somewhat leisurelypace, I'm grounding myself, I'm
breathing deep, I'm preparingmy mind so that when I arrive in
that situation, I can arrivecalm, cool and collected,
(11:37):
without a bunch of stresshormones already flooding my
body.
Collected without a bunch ofstress hormones already flooding
my body.
If you can move intentionally,breathe deeply and arrive
feeling composed, you're goingto be calm and the student is
going to be more likely to matchyour energy.
You can also have a bank ofgo-to strategies.
(11:59):
Now, this is nothingearth-shattering.
These are probably things youalready know about, but what
people don't tell you issometimes simplest is best.
We don't need a bunch of fancytechniques to intervene in
behavior, because really yourpower is in your presence.
Non-verbal cues, just a nod, asmile if it's appropriate, or
(12:27):
sitting near a student withoutgetting too close.
That can sometimes be moreeffective than walking in and
barking orders or starting togive choices or starting to say
if then or first, then all thosekinds of things you're told to
do.
Sometimes the best thing to sayis nothing at all, especially
(12:48):
when a student is dysregulatedbecause y'all their thinking
brain is not online in thatmoment.
You can talk to them all youwant, but they're probably not
going to hear you.
You need to reduce the audience.
This is a confidence issue fora lot of school counselors.
(13:09):
They feel, when they arrive ata behavior concern, that they
don't have the authority or theright to tell people to move
away.
You must claim that I havetrained many school staffs on
the fact that when I arrive tobehavior intervention because
(13:31):
you've called me, yourinvolvement in the situation is
pretty much over.
I'm going to take it from here,because if you're calling me,
that means it's gotten to apoint that you can no longer
handle that, and there's noshame in that.
But I surely don't want youhanging around trying all the
things you've already triedbefore, trying all the things
(13:54):
you've already tried before.
So don't be afraid to beassertive and reduce the
audience Along with that.
Be ready to stop the barkingchihuahua.
What do I mean when I say that?
A lot of times, when you arriveto classroom concerns
especially if you have a teacherwho has become dysregulated in
(14:16):
the situation as well they meetyou in the hallway or at the
door and they start yipping andyapping like a chihuahua.
Let me tell you what happenedFirst this, then that, and they
want to give you this fullplay-by-play in this
high-pitched, fast voice.
That is going to do no one anygood.
The recap can wait.
(14:38):
You do not need all the detailsto intervene in the behavior.
It's true, and I thinksometimes we think, if we allow
that play-by-play, it's going togive us some clue as to what we
need to do next.
But in my experience, ninetimes out of 10, it only serves
to worsen the problem.
(14:59):
So stop the chihuahua.
There are some really kind waysto do that in the moment, but
again, you have to claim yourauthority, you have to be ready
to do that and to be able tocall the shots.
During behavior intervention, Iuse a visual cue for staff
member disengagement.
(15:20):
I have a special card that Iwear on the back of my badge and
I have made that available tomy mastermind members as well.
So all we have to do is flipthat badge and be able to
communicate what needs to besaid without actually speaking
any words.
And last, be ready to do whatfeels like nothing, and nothing
(15:43):
is actually a big something, butpeople don't realize it.
If you're in a position to sitwith a student calmly, to not
make demands, to just remaingrounded in your experience and
wait for them to come around toyou, those mirror neurons in
their brain are going to kick inand they're going to begin to
(16:07):
try to match your regulationstate, regulation state.
So, even though we feel like weshould show up and do something
, sometimes the best thing to dolooks like nothing at all.
Be ready to do nothing, so tospeak.
(16:28):
So just a few ideas of what todo in the moment.
And again, none of this isgroundbreaking.
All of the tactics that you'reoften told to do often just
escalate the situation.
But if we can push past the fearof being judged, of people
thinking we're just sittingthere with them doing nothing,
(16:49):
or the fear of asking them hey,you want to get out of here for
a little while and wondering ifthe teacher's going to look at
us and think well, it must benice to go play games and have
fun.
After something like this,you've just got to let all of
that go.
You have to be confident inyour competence and your
(17:09):
expertise and if you're preparedto explain the mechanisms if
anyone ever calls you out on it,you're good.
Because, my friend, there aregoing to be naysayers on every
single campus.
I recently spoke at a schoolcounselor symposium and one of
the school counselors thatattended told me a terrible
(17:31):
story about a teacher who wasactively seeking to undermine
the school counselor's behavior.
Response they're everywhere,y'all, but we can't let them
derail what we know needs tohappen in the moment Nonverbal
cues, reducing the audience,getting rid of the chihuahuas,
(17:56):
being ready to do what lookslike nothing, ready to do what
looks like nothing, and thenmaybe at the end of it, you can
do a quick review with the staffmembers involved what worked,
what didn't, what could we dodifferently next time, but that
only happens after everyone isre-regulated and ready to go,
(18:23):
and ready to go Far and away.
What I want you to take awayfrom this podcast episode is
that you do amazing work and ifyou're giving it everything you
have, you are absolutely doingenough.
Hold tight to what you knowabout psychology and brain
chemistry and behaviorintervention.
You know what to do.
(18:45):
You just need to trust yourself.
We are planting seeds forlonger-term behavior changes.
We're building trust in themoment, without giving a whole
bunch of baloney commands,because our role in these
situations isn't to fix it.
It's to model emotionalregulation, to be a steady and
(19:11):
safe presence for a child who isexperiencing monumental
difficulty, and sometimes thebiggest win in these situations
is that they didn't escalate anyfurther than they already had.
Y'all, this is a tough time ofyear.
We're past the newness of theschool year, we're past the
(19:35):
holidays, all of the big events,and you may have some longer
stretches of time during thespring, without days off,
without student holidays andthings like that, and so the
road seems long.
People are getting tired,they're getting testy and, as a
result, we do tend to seebehavior concerns tick up this
(19:58):
time of year.
So I've got a couple resourcesfor you.
Number one I am consideringreleasing something called the
Behavior Breakthrough Kit.
The Behavior Breakthrough Kitis going to give you some
additional resources formanaging behavior intervention
(20:18):
Because, like it or notappropriate school counseling
duty or not so many of us arecalled to be part of these
concerns, and sometimes we'rethe only ones that are called to
be part of these concerns.
So I want to give you a kitthat's really going to help you
(20:39):
feel like you're on the righttrack.
What if you had more in-depthbehavior training?
What if you had a flow chart tohelp you decide where things
need to go?
What if you had a framework fordecision making to determine
whether or not you're involvedwith dysregulation or defiance,
(21:01):
because I know that's somethingwe question all the time.
What if you could grab all ofthese things in a toolkit
together to help you with yourbehavior intervention?
As I said, I'm consideringreleasing this.
I'm not sure if the interest isthere, but if it is, if you
think this could be somethingthat could up-level your school
(21:21):
counseling game, I am here forit.
You can go to the websiteschoolforschoolcounselorscom and
at the very top of that homepage you're going to see a link
that you can click to enter yourname and email address to jump
on the wait list and if we getenough interest to finalize this
behavior breakthrough kit, youare going to be one of the first
(21:44):
to know.
Secondly, if you feel like youneed some faster and more
personal support, you know we'rehere for you.
In our School for SchoolCounselors Mastermind, we hold
weekly case consultations and wetalk every single meeting about
these kinds of struggles.
My friend, you do not have todo this alone and, unlike other
(22:09):
school counseling membershipswhere they throw a bunch of
resources at you and tell yougood luck, hope you make it,
we're there each and every weeksupporting you through the
implementation.
We're not leaving you out todry or making you wait a month
until you can ask your questions.
We're there every week tosupport and to guide you through
(22:30):
whatever you're experiencing onyour campus.
You can find out more aboutthat at
schoolforschoolcounselorscom.
Slash mastermind All right y'all.
Behavior intervention.
It can feel sticky.
It can feel scary just like Iwas so scared of my little
banshee whale student that I hadso many years ago.
(22:53):
But the good news is you've gotthis.
We've got this and we cannavigate this scary terrain
together.
I am so glad you joined me forthis episode and I can't wait to
talk to you again in the nextepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
I'll be back with you soon anduntil then, take care.
We knew it as soon as we heard the banshee scream.
Do you know what I mean when Isay that?
That one yell, that one certainvoice, the tone just instantly
lets you know exactly whichstudent is in distress.
Because you've heard it so manytimes?
(00:20):
We were trained.
It was almost like Pavlov's dog.
As soon as we heard that shriekcoming down the hallway, we
sprung up, we grabbed ourwalkies, we took our earrings
out and we went to the rescue.
That was one of my very firstschool counseling jobs and I can
(00:40):
remember thinking in the backof my mind oh dear Lord, please
do not let me be the only one oncampus when this happens.
I don't want to be responsiblefor this situation on my own
Because, to be honest, I was alittle terrified.
This kiddo was unpredictable.
We weren't sure what his movewas going to be, and I wasn't
(01:04):
especially practiced in behaviorintervention and I think, too,
you know, when we show up tointervene in behavior concerns
on campus, because it's sounpredictable and because there
are so many moving parts to theprocess, it ends up feeling
super overwhelming.
(01:25):
Hey, welcome back to the Schoolfor School Counselors podcast.
I'm Steph Johnson.
I'm a full-time schoolcounselor, just like you on a
mission to make schoolcounseling feel more sustainable
and more enjoyable, because Iwant you to look forward to
walking through the doors ofyour school each and every day.
I want you to feel accomplishedand I want you to look forward
to walking through the doors ofyour school each and every day.
(01:45):
I want you to feel accomplishedand I want you to feel
confident.
And that's what this podcast isall about your weekly
masterclass on school counselingsuccess, a deep dive into the
information.
You need to feel like you havethe knowledge and the expertise
to do this amazing job that Iknow you were put on the planet
(02:07):
to carry out.
Now, most of us know aboutbehavior intervention all too
well, in that we are very, veryinvolved in it, and this time of
year, as we're heading intospring, we're going to be
noticing behaviors ramping upand y'all I can tell you from
(02:27):
talking with the members of mySchool for School Counselors
Mastermind it is everyone.
So we need to be talking aboutbehavior intervention.
We need to be sharing ourapproaches and supporting one
another through what feels likea more and more difficult
landscape.
(02:48):
But here's the thing.
I could dive into a bunch oftactics or techniques for
behavior intervention.
But there's two problems withthat.
Number one, you've probablyheard that all before.
And number two, has it reallybeen of great help to you?
You may have picked up a fewthings here or there that help
(03:10):
in behavior interventionsituations, but I'm also going
to bet that you were leftfeeling like there has to be
something more, especially whenyou're not in control of
staffing on your campus.
You're not in control of whogets pulled to de-escalate
behavior, especially when it'syou, and so, instead of talking
(03:34):
about all of these perfect worldpie-in-the-sky scenarios for
behavior intervention y'all,we're going to get real today.
I hope that you're lookingforward to this, because we're
going to have some real talkabout behavior intervention for
school counselors.
Now, if you've been listening tothe podcast for a while, you
(03:55):
may have heard an old episode.
I think it was about a year anda half ago.
Back in September 2023, I putout a podcast episode called
Unpacking School Discipline asurprising guide for school
counselors, and in that episode,I compared school counseling
behavior intervention approachesto parenting styles, and the
(04:18):
ultimate outcome of thatconversation is that we want to
be an authoritative counselor.
Do you remember your parentingstyles?
Authoritarian, authoritativeand permissive.
We want to be the authoritativecounselor.
We're giving firm, clearboundaries, but we're also
providing a lot of empathy andlove.
(04:47):
But y'all that's hard whenyou're constantly called to
de-escalate students in crisisor behavior meltdowns, and
especially when you see the samestudents over and over again.
It's exhausting.
And even if you have a greatmulti-tiered system or a great
behavior RTI framework whichmost experts will tell you is
(05:08):
the holy grail, it's still sotiring Between trying to
maintain your own schedule,getting pulled away from your
core counseling work and thatconstant feeling of being in the
spotlight anytime you arrive ina hallway or a classroom to
help with intervention.
It can be maddening.
(05:29):
So let's talk about some of thethings that are standing in
your way.
First is time.
We all know in our work we arejuggling a million things at
once, but then often we'reexpected to drop everything and
run across campus to help astudent re-regulate and y'all.
(05:50):
That never happens when it'sconvenient, right?
It's never when you havenothing going on.
It's when you're in the middleof a conversation, or you're
working on plans, or you'retrying to wrap up some sort of
important task, or even in themiddle of talking to another
student.
And then boom, all the walkiesgo off, Everybody starts looking
for you and you're needed to gosomewhere else.
(06:14):
The thing about this kind ofbehavior response is that the
disruption isn't just in themoment, it's not just when the
behavior is occurring and, youknow, maybe a little bit after
that it throws your entire dayoff, and if it happens often
enough, you know, maybe ithappens every couple of days,
(06:35):
gracious, even every day.
I've had some situations whereI've had students going off
almost every single day.
It is freaking draining.
You feel like you're constantlyspinning your wheels and you're
never, ever going to be able tocatch up.
One of the things that I seeschool counselors talk about
(06:55):
most is having lots of smallgroup counseling or counseling
lessons scheduled, because weknow students need consistency.
But then by the middle of theweek you've only had one of
those lessons or one of thosegroups, because the behavior
calls keep rolling in and by thetime the week is over, you're
(07:16):
starting to wonder why am I hereat all?
Why do I even try to schedulethis stuff if I'm going to
constantly be pulled away?
That leads to your secondobstacle, which is feeling like
you're overscheduled.
You start to get afraid toschedule small groups or lessons
, or even individual kids,because you know eventually
(07:38):
you're going to have to cancelsomebody.
And the worst part about it isyou want to show up for these
students, you want to buildconsistency, you want to provide
that support, but every timeyou have to leave that and head
toward a behavior concern, itchips away at your foundation of
(07:59):
proactive, structured supportfor your students.
It's like you're constantly ondefense instead of offense and
then you start thinking, well, Imean, should I be scheduling
things at all?
What's the point?
You could schedule someprotected time when behavior
calls are going to be handled byanother staff member.
You could try to carve out anhour a day, maybe a couple hours
(08:24):
, where you know you have someguaranteed student facing time.
But I also know that that's notpossible on a lot of campuses.
This is exactly why I don'timmediately schedule small
groups at the start of theschool year Y'all.
I have to wait.
I have to see what behaviorconcerns have arrived on my
campus, maybe which behaviorconcerns are kicking off again
(08:48):
and what adjustment concerns I'mgoing to be seeing before I
start scheduling a bunch offolks.
Is that opposite of how wetypically think of our
multi-tiered systems of support?
Yes, it is.
But here's the thing If you'rerunning a truly comprehensive
school counseling program that'saligned with multi-tiered
(09:08):
systems of support, you alsoknow you're not going to be
running a caseload of 1 to 700or 1 to 800, like so many school
counselors are doing.
So we're going to have to cutourselves a break here a little
bit.
Many school counselors aredoing so.
We're going to have to cutourselves a break here a little
bit.
The third roadblock and this isa huge one, this is one we don't
(09:29):
talk about enough is feelingincompetent.
You show up to an escalatedstudent issue, you are trying
everything you know and it feelslike it's not working.
And even worse, it feels likeeverybody's watching you and
that pressure can feel superoverwhelming.
It's like you're on a big stagein the spotlight and
(09:52):
everybody's watching you andwhispering can they do it?
You know you've read theresearch, you've practiced the
techniques, but still some daysit feels like nothing's landing.
I talk a lot about this kind ofbehavior hurdle in my
masterclass called BehaviorIntervention for School
Counselors.
(10:13):
We're getting ready to holdthat masterclass again in the
mastermind coming up on March23rd.
That's a Sunday, that's when wehave our masterclasses.
And if you not only need alittle additional behavior
guidance, but you would alsolike to troubleshoot in real
time y'all.
(10:33):
This masterclass is where it'sat.
You can find out moreinformation about that at
schoolforschoolcounselorscom.
Slash mastermind.
But back to the point.
What in the world do you do?
What are some practicaltechniques you can use for
de-escalation that are actuallygoing to work in the real world?
(10:54):
Let me see if I can help youwith some ideas.
Can help you with some ideas.
Number one walk slowly.
That seems so silly, doesn't it?
But I'm here to tell you Inoticed a significant change
when I started walkingdeliberately and intentionally
to behavior calls.
(11:14):
I don't get in a hurry, I don'trush because on the way, as I'm
walking at a somewhat leisurelypace, I'm grounding myself, I'm
breathing deep, I'm preparingmy mind so that when I arrive in
that situation, I can arrivecalm, cool and collected,
(11:37):
without a bunch of stresshormones already flooding my
body.
Collected without a bunch ofstress hormones already flooding
my body.
If you can move intentionally,breathe deeply and arrive
feeling composed, you're goingto be calm and the student is
going to be more likely to matchyour energy.
You can also have a bank ofgo-to strategies.
(11:59):
Now, this is nothingearth-shattering.
These are probably things youalready know about, but what
people don't tell you issometimes simplest is best.
We don't need a bunch of fancytechniques to intervene in
behavior, because really yourpower is in your presence.
Non-verbal cues, just a nod, asmile if it's appropriate, or
(12:27):
sitting near a student withoutgetting too close.
That can sometimes be moreeffective than walking in and
barking orders or starting togive choices or starting to say
if then or first, then all thosekinds of things you're told to
do.
Sometimes the best thing to sayis nothing at all, especially
(12:48):
when a student is dysregulatedbecause y'all their thinking
brain is not online in thatmoment.
You can talk to them all youwant, but they're probably not
going to hear you.
You need to reduce the audience.
This is a confidence issue fora lot of school counselors.
(13:09):
They feel, when they arrive ata behavior concern, that they
don't have the authority or theright to tell people to move
away.
You must claim that I havetrained many school staffs on
the fact that when I arrive tobehavior intervention because
(13:31):
you've called me, yourinvolvement in the situation is
pretty much over.
I'm going to take it from here,because if you're calling me,
that means it's gotten to apoint that you can no longer
handle that, and there's noshame in that.
But I surely don't want youhanging around trying all the
things you've already triedbefore, trying all the things
(13:54):
you've already tried before.
So don't be afraid to beassertive and reduce the
audience Along with that.
Be ready to stop the barkingchihuahua.
What do I mean when I say that?
A lot of times, when you arriveto classroom concerns
especially if you have a teacherwho has become dysregulated in
(14:16):
the situation as well they meetyou in the hallway or at the
door and they start yipping andyapping like a chihuahua.
Let me tell you what happenedFirst this, then that, and they
want to give you this fullplay-by-play in this
high-pitched, fast voice.
That is going to do no one anygood.
The recap can wait.
(14:38):
You do not need all the detailsto intervene in the behavior.
It's true, and I thinksometimes we think, if we allow
that play-by-play, it's going togive us some clue as to what we
need to do next.
But in my experience, ninetimes out of 10, it only serves
to worsen the problem.
(14:59):
So stop the chihuahua.
There are some really kind waysto do that in the moment, but
again, you have to claim yourauthority, you have to be ready
to do that and to be able tocall the shots.
During behavior intervention, Iuse a visual cue for staff
member disengagement.
(15:20):
I have a special card that Iwear on the back of my badge and
I have made that available tomy mastermind members as well.
So all we have to do is flipthat badge and be able to
communicate what needs to besaid without actually speaking
any words.
And last, be ready to do whatfeels like nothing, and nothing
(15:43):
is actually a big something, butpeople don't realize it.
If you're in a position to sitwith a student calmly, to not
make demands, to just remaingrounded in your experience and
wait for them to come around toyou, those mirror neurons in
their brain are going to kick inand they're going to begin to
(16:07):
try to match your regulationstate, regulation state.
So, even though we feel like weshould show up and do something
, sometimes the best thing to dolooks like nothing at all.
Be ready to do nothing, so tospeak.
(16:28):
So just a few ideas of what todo in the moment.
And again, none of this isgroundbreaking.
All of the tactics that you'reoften told to do often just
escalate the situation.
But if we can push past the fearof being judged, of people
thinking we're just sittingthere with them doing nothing,
(16:49):
or the fear of asking them hey,you want to get out of here for
a little while and wondering ifthe teacher's going to look at
us and think well, it must benice to go play games and have
fun.
After something like this,you've just got to let all of
that go.
You have to be confident inyour competence and your
(17:09):
expertise and if you're preparedto explain the mechanisms if
anyone ever calls you out on it,you're good.
Because, my friend, there aregoing to be naysayers on every
single campus.
I recently spoke at a schoolcounselor symposium and one of
the school counselors thatattended told me a terrible
(17:31):
story about a teacher who wasactively seeking to undermine
the school counselor's behavior.
Response they're everywhere,y'all, but we can't let them
derail what we know needs tohappen in the moment Nonverbal
cues, reducing the audience,getting rid of the chihuahuas,
(17:56):
being ready to do what lookslike nothing, ready to do what
looks like nothing, and thenmaybe at the end of it, you can
do a quick review with the staffmembers involved what worked,
what didn't, what could we dodifferently next time, but that
only happens after everyone isre-regulated and ready to go,
(18:23):
and ready to go Far and away.
What I want you to take awayfrom this podcast episode is
that you do amazing work and ifyou're giving it everything you
have, you are absolutely doingenough.
Hold tight to what you knowabout psychology and brain
chemistry and behaviorintervention.
You know what to do.
(18:45):
You just need to trust yourself.
We are planting seeds forlonger-term behavior changes.
We're building trust in themoment, without giving a whole
bunch of baloney commands,because our role in these
situations isn't to fix it.
It's to model emotionalregulation, to be a steady and
(19:11):
safe presence for a child who isexperiencing monumental
difficulty, and sometimes thebiggest win in these situations
is that they didn't escalate anyfurther than they already had.
Y'all, this is a tough time ofyear.
We're past the newness of theschool year, we're past the
(19:35):
holidays, all of the big events,and you may have some longer
stretches of time during thespring, without days off,
without student holidays andthings like that, and so the
road seems long.
People are getting tired,they're getting testy and, as a
result, we do tend to seebehavior concerns tick up this
(19:58):
time of year.
So I've got a couple resourcesfor you.
Number one I am consideringreleasing something called the
Behavior Breakthrough Kit.
The Behavior Breakthrough Kitis going to give you some
additional resources formanaging behavior intervention
(20:18):
Because, like it or notappropriate school counseling
duty or not so many of us arecalled to be part of these
concerns, and sometimes we'rethe only ones that are called to
be part of these concerns.
So I want to give you a kitthat's really going to help you
(20:39):
feel like you're on the righttrack.
What if you had more in-depthbehavior training?
What if you had a flow chart tohelp you decide where things
need to go?
What if you had a framework fordecision making to determine
whether or not you're involvedwith dysregulation or defiance,
(21:01):
because I know that's somethingwe question all the time.
What if you could grab all ofthese things in a toolkit
together to help you with yourbehavior intervention?
As I said, I'm consideringreleasing this.
I'm not sure if the interest isthere, but if it is, if you
think this could be somethingthat could up-level your school
(21:21):
counseling game, I am here forit.
You can go to the websiteschoolforschoolcounselorscom and
at the very top of that homepage you're going to see a link
that you can click to enter yourname and email address to jump
on the wait list and if we getenough interest to finalize this
behavior breakthrough kit, youare going to be one of the first
(21:44):
to know.
Secondly, if you feel like youneed some faster and more
personal support, you know we'rehere for you.
In our School for SchoolCounselors Mastermind, we hold
weekly case consultations and wetalk every single meeting about
these kinds of struggles.
My friend, you do not have todo this alone and, unlike other
(22:09):
school counseling membershipswhere they throw a bunch of
resources at you and tell yougood luck, hope you make it,
we're there each and every weeksupporting you through the
implementation.
We're not leaving you out todry or making you wait a month
until you can ask your questions.
We're there every week tosupport and to guide you through
(22:30):
whatever you're experiencing onyour campus.
You can find out more aboutthat at
schoolforschoolcounselorscom.
Slash mastermind All right y'all.
Behavior intervention.
It can feel sticky.
It can feel scary just like Iwas so scared of my little
banshee whale student that I hadso many years ago.
(22:53):
But the good news is you've gotthis.
We've got this and we cannavigate this scary terrain
together.
I am so glad you joined me forthis episode and I can't wait to
talk to you again in the nextepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
I'll be back with you soon anduntil then, take care.
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