May 13, 2025 • 30 mins
You’ve been holding it in all year.
The long hours, the invisible work, the constant pressure to stay calm while everything around you feels like it’s unraveling... And now that the school year’s winding down, one question keeps echoing louder than the rest:
“Can I really do this again next year?”
In this deeply personal episode, I’m not here to hand you a checklist or tell you what to do. I’m here as a fellow counselor, walking through the same hard questions- right alongside you.
We’ll talk about:
- The quiet signs it might be time to move on (even if nothing “dramatic” has happened)
- What staying with intention actually looks like
- Why redesigning your role could work- and when it absolutely won’t
- A gut-check framework that helps you make the call without spiraling
- And what to do if you feel like you don’t even have a choice right now
If you’ve ever felt like the only one who’s wondering whether it’s time to go, this episode will remind you: you’re not alone- and you don't have to feel stuck.
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⭐️ Want support with real-world strategies that actually work on your campus? We’re doing that every day in the School for School Counselors Mastermind. Come join us! ⭐️
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Our goal at School for School Counselors is to help school counselors stay on fire, make huge impacts for students, and catalyze change for our roles through grassroots advocacy and collaboration. Listen to get to know more about us and our mission, feel empowered and inspired, and set yourself up for success in the wonderful world of school counseling.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There once was a crow in a cage made of wire, perched
near a market, just feet fromthe fire and the chatter and
clatter and heat of the street.
But the cage felt familiar andthe scraps were a treat.
The door stood open.
He could have flown far.
But why chase the clouds?
When you're fed where you are,it's fine, he told himself day
(00:24):
after day.
Why risk the unknown when it'ssafer to stay?
But seasons passed and theshopkeeper changed.
The scraps came less often, theweather grew strange and
something inside him, quiet atfirst, grew louder and sharper.
Beyond hunger or thirst.
(00:45):
I've lived on crumbs and calledit a life, stayed in a cage
because comfort felt right, Ithought it was safe.
But I've been playing small.
Maybe this cage wasn't awesomeat all.
So one windy morning he lookedto the sky, didn't wait, didn't
weigh, didn't justify.
(01:05):
He spread his wings and, with aheart full of doubt, the crow
finally finally flew out.
Hey, we've been having a lot offun in our School for School
Counselors Mastermind latelywith school counseling poems
courtesy of ChatGPT.
(01:26):
It's been some greatentertainment for us and also
pretty inspirational, and that'skind of what inspired me to
start this podcast episode inthis way, because this is what
we are talking about the momentwhen you realize you might have
outgrown where you are and youmight be thinking about leaving,
(01:48):
or you might be wishing youcould stay, or maybe you're just
completely unsure.
If any of those describe you,my friend, this podcast episode
is for you.
Hey, my friend, welcome back tothe School for School
Counselors podcast.
For the counselors who arejuggling it all and wondering
(02:12):
when it's finally going to makesense, I'm Steph Johnson, a
licensed professional counselor,full-time school counselor just
like you, and founder of Schoolfor School Counselors, where
we've been leading theconversation since 2020.
If you're tired of schoolcounseling advice that sounds
like it came from Pinterest,you're in the right place.
(02:34):
Okay, I'm going to be honestwith you.
I have recorded and re-recordedthis episode several times
because I wanted to try to getit as close to exactly right as
I could, and the reason for thatbeyond any of my other podcast
(02:54):
episodes, where I always try tobe meticulous and thoughtful
about the information I present,this one weighed extra heavy
because it involves such bigideas and things that are so
important to our lives.
If you're feeling unsettled inyour work right now, you are
(03:16):
definitely not alone, and thistime of year always stirs things
up, doesn't it?
Even more than usual, becausewe have all the end of year
pressure, all the chaos oncampus.
The behavior roller coastercontinues to roll on and it all
starts to add up and weigh downon our shoulders, doesn't it?
And for us especially, I feellike this time of year just
(03:41):
feels really heavy, becauseyou've spent months trying to be
everything to everyone at yourschool and you've probably not
really stopped and askedyourself how am I doing anywhere
along the way.
And then, when you finally doget a minute, you start thinking
things like.
You start thinking things likeI don't know if I can do this
(04:04):
again next year.
Do you feel that way?
I mean, we are all so tired andif you are in a place that is
not fulfilling your heart andyour soul, it is easy to start
thinking that direction.
But that's why this podcast andits ideas and its tone was so
(04:25):
important for me to get right.
Because when you seeconversations like this floating
around on social media, you seepeople posting things like A, b
and C are happening on mycampus.
I'm unhappy, I'm not sure I cango somewhere else, but I don't
know what else to do.
Inevitably, the majority ofreplies or comments go along the
(04:47):
line of you know, you've got tomake yourself happy, you've got
to do what's best for you, andwhile that advice is
well-meaning, it's oftenmisdirected.
It's easy to give those littlequips to someone that you don't
know right, or to comment on asituation where you have
absolutely no stake in theoutcome.
(05:08):
You don't have to look thatperson in the eye if it goes the
wrong direction.
Now, I hope this doesn't soundweird, but when I record these
podcast episodes, I see youright in front of me.
I imagine your face, I imaginethat we're having coffee
together and we're having thebest conversation, and so I want
(05:30):
to bring my best to thisconversation to help you really,
really discern what your truethoughts and feelings are about
your situation and to help guideyou toward making the best
decision for you.
Now, typically, when we thinkabout leaving a school
(05:52):
counseling position, it'sbecause you're in one of three
places.
Either you're being pushed out,and that could be through
burnout, maybe you have a toxicprincipal, maybe just the way
things are going at your schooldon't make sense anymore.
Whatever the case may be, thosecircumstances are pushing you
(06:14):
out of the position, or youmight be being pulled towards
something else.
Maybe you see something thatfeels like it's going to be a
better fit, whether that's aposition at another campus or in
another district, or whetherthat's another career field
entirely.
Sometimes we can also feelpulled toward better balance or
(06:40):
just a job that gives you alittle bit more breathing room.
Or third, sometimes you've justoutgrown what you're doing.
You're ready for something more, something bigger.
You're looking for what's next,even if you don't really know
(07:00):
what that is yet.
I can tell you with 100% honesty.
I have been in all three ofthose situations.
I've been in a toxicenvironment that pushed me out
of the school and, to be totallyhonest, I stayed way longer
than I should have.
I have been pulled into newpositions where I could strike a
(07:30):
better professional balance.
I came out of a little highertrauma situation into something
a little bit more manageable.
And then I have been in aposition where I've outgrown
where I am and, incidentally,that's why you're listening to
this podcast I am and,incidentally, that's why you're
listening to this podcast,because it helped me to address
(07:51):
that next thing.
I decided that I wanted to staywith what I was doing, that I
wanted to grow and help moreschool counselors in a different
kind of way.
But back to you, because that'swhat this is all about.
(08:15):
Here are some questions to kindof get you thinking in which
direction you feel you might bebeing pushed or pulled or drawn
toward.
First, is your schoolcounseling role now aligned to
what matters to you?
Some of us have a heart fortrauma-informed work, but we
can't engage in that on ourcampuses.
It's dismissed, it's poo-pooed,no one wants to hear about
(08:35):
trauma and it's demoralizing.
Some of us have a spot in ourhearts for students with special
needs, but we're not allowed toserve them on our campuses.
That's for the school psych orthe therapist.
Some of us are drawn towardbuilding relationships with
community agencies and bringingoutside factors into the campus,
(08:56):
but that's frowned upon whereyou are.
They circle the wagons.
They don't want to let anybodyin.
Could be a lot of things.
But is your job aligned withwhat matters to you?
Then consider is your jobsustainable for your health, for
your family and for your sanity, right, your peace of mind?
(09:19):
Can you keep going in the rolethat you're currently in and can
you grow in your currentposition?
Or are you just sticking aroundbecause it's familiar or you
don't know where else to go.
These are really important, andthat last one is particularly
(09:41):
important because, like the crow, you don't want to stick around
and get the scraps just becausethat's all you've ever known.
Right Now, I'm not telling youagain that if you're unhappy you
should leave, but I do want youto consider these questions.
You might be thinking aboutleaving if you've tried
(10:02):
advocating on your campus butnothing has changed.
Or worse, you've triedadvocating on your campus and
you have been activelyundermined.
That's not a fun feeling.
You might be dealing with a lotof physical symptoms like
(10:28):
headaches, insomnia or that gutpunch on Sunday night knowing
that you have to walk throughthe doors on Monday morning.
You may have stopped dreamingabout what's next and your
daydreams are now solely focusedaround quitting.
Or maybe you're in a situationwhere you're bending your ethics
just to make it through the day.
If those hit a little bit tooclose to home, it might be time
(10:51):
to listen to your nervous system.
So make a values versus realitylist.
To be sure, write down your topfive non-negotiables.
What are the qualities, thecharacteristics, the components
(11:15):
of life for you that arenon-negotiable?
You can Google a list of corevalues, if that helps you come
up with the vocabulary.
What is it that drives you, notonly in your work but in your
day-to-day life Generosity,altruism, leadership,
(11:38):
understanding.
What is it that fills yourheart with joy and gives you a
purpose?
And then consider, after you'vemade that list, how many of
those are present in your workright now.
Or are you finding yourselfconstantly having to make peace
with the fact that they're notthere?
If most of your core valueshave been missing for a while,
(11:59):
it might be time to ask yourselfwhat it's costing you to stay
and that's not quitting myfriend no-transcript.
So, that being said, let's notpretend like leaving is always
the answer.
Sometimes the best thing youcan do for yourself is to stay,
(12:24):
or sometimes that's the onlyoption that you have.
Let's be honest.
If you're still learning whereyou are right now, or if you're
in a season where you need thestability of knowing you have
the job, knowing what your payis, knowing that you have those
benefits, that's real.
(12:45):
Or maybe you really like thepeople that you work with, you
really like your students, oryou like the things you do day
to day.
You just don't love everythingthat's going on.
You might want to considersticking around.
So you have to do it in a waythat still feels sustainable,
(13:08):
that you are not going to end uphating your job and your life
by the end of next year.
So block off some sacred timefor yourself and you may be
laughing at me right now becauseI know that feels impossible on
so many school campuses, but Ipromise you, if you get
intentional about this, it canbe done.
(13:29):
You can find those pockets inthe day that are less likely to
harbor explosions.
You can find a little bit oftime in your day to close your
office door, maybe to hide inthe closet if you need to, just
to have a minute to think and tohave your own time to process
whatever it is you've been doingthat day.
(13:50):
That is not an unreasonableexpectation.
You could also think about someof the non-counseling things
you've been doing just becausenobody else will do it, and
figure out how to startdownloading that to someone else
, not necessarily standing upand planting the flag and saying
(14:11):
I am not doing this anymore.
This is not a school counselingresponsibility.
You've seen those lists, right?
Yeah, don't do that.
Don't present youradministrator with a list and
say I'm not doing this anymore,because 99% of the time that
does not go well, but you canstart thinking about how you can
ease your way out of thoseresponsibilities.
(14:32):
And again, if you're listeningand you're thinking, ain't no
way, steph, there is no way thatis ever going to happen.
That's where good consultationcomes into the picture, because
when you're engaging in goodquality consultation with the
same professional cadre, whathappens is those people get to
(14:54):
know you.
They get to know your school,your campus, how it works.
They know your circumstances,they know your circumstances,
they know your challenges.
And then, as we start to haveconversations about how to
offload some of these things,they give you suggestions that
actually make sense because theyknow you.
And this is where the internetquestions and chats with people
(15:19):
you don't know go wrong.
This is where other types ofconsultation that are provided
through other school counselororganizations falls flat.
No shade.
But when you're only meetingonce a month, it doesn't cut it.
But I digress.
So we're blocking off some timefor ourselves 30 minutes, even
once a week, then looking atoffloading some of the things
(15:44):
that we've done just becausenobody else would do them, and
then start tracking your use oftime.
I know, I know it is so hard,but I promise you it is
eye-opening and it's going tohelp you tell a story about your
time, not only to yourself, butto the people that make these
kinds of decisions on yourcampus.
(16:05):
Again, that's something that welook at intensively throughout
the school year in our Schoolfor School Counselors,
mastermind.
But the point is being able toname the ways that the system is
set up unfairly, being able tojustify just a smidge of
downtime in your week andknowing where your efforts are
(16:26):
really going.
That gives you power where youare.
So if you decide that you wantto stay or that's the only
option that you have, thesethings can give you a little bit
of solace and a little bit ofstrength as you work toward the
next thing.
Now there is a third optionbeyond leaving or staying.
(16:47):
If you're not ready to leavebut you don't wanna stay with
the way things are and you don'tfeel like the suggestions I've
just given are good enough.
They're not going to move theneedle enough for you.
Suggestions I've just given aregood enough.
They're not going to move theneedle enough for you.
You might be able to stay andredesign your role if the
environment will support it.
(17:15):
Sometimes that does mean againshifting some responsibilities.
Sometimes it means making acase for a different kind of
schedule.
So many of you are scheduled tothe minute throughout your day
that you're almost not even acounselor anymore.
You're more like an SEL teacher, right, and you throw some
moments of emergency response inbetween the classes that you're
teaching Y'all.
That is crazy.
That is absolutely nuts that weare expecting school counselors
(17:39):
to do that.
So if your environment cansupport it, you might be in a
position where you can make acase for a better schedule or
again use that data to back upthese requests for some other
changes that you've been askingfor.
Sometimes your leadership isgoing to be open to that.
Sometimes they'll surprise you.
(18:00):
I do think it's important tohave laid a fundamental
foundation of knowing, likingand trusting.
So this is not something thatyou're going to be able to walk
in first year, maybe even secondor third year and suggest and
have everybody jumping up anddown for joy at your suggestions
because you're so smart andbrilliant.
(18:20):
Now, we know you're smart andbrilliant, but they're not going
to see your brilliance untilthey've worked with you for a
little while, and that processmoves more slowly than I think
we sometimes realize, becauseprincipals have been burned by
teachers and by other staffmembers, who show up like rock
(18:41):
stars and then the longer timegoes on, the more their actual,
real selves start to shinethrough.
And so, fair or not, you'rekind of in that bucket until you
prove it wrong.
You've got to get in there anddo some good work, build your
authority, develop some cloutwith your administrators so that
(19:02):
you're in a position to makethese suggestions and be
successful.
It is possible to do that and,again, with some good
consultation, you're going to beable to travel down that path
much more successfully.
But if you've already triedthat and not only were you
turned down, because that's notthe end of the world, right, you
(19:23):
can always try again.
But if you were dismissed, ifyou were minimized or you were
made to feel like you were theproblem, then that door is
probably a door that's locked toyou and that might tell you
everything you need to know.
A door that's locked to you andthat might tell you everything
you need to know.
So, with all of this in mind,thinking about the end of your
(19:44):
stressors and tiredness andfatigue, thinking about whether
we're being pushed out, pulledtowards something else or we've
just outgrown where we are andwhether we want to or have to
stay, stay or whether we thinkit's time to go or redesign what
we're doing.
How can we decide what's bestfor us?
(20:07):
Because, like I said, I've beenin all of these situations and,
speaking for myself, my brainfelt a little bit like a tornado
.
I had all of these thoughtsswirling around and around and
around and I couldn't quitecatch anything and hold on to it
long enough to feel confidentin the decision.
It was really, really tough.
(20:29):
It was like that old movie,twister have you ever seen that
movie?
And the cow was flying aroundin the tornado.
It would be like reaching upand trying to grab that cow.
You're not going to be able todo it, but these big decisions
sometimes feel like that, don'tthey?
They take a while to tease out.
So how are we going to figurethat out?
Use a ready framework.
(20:51):
Now, this is a sneak peek of aframework that I'm going to be
talking about a lot more as weget into back to school, but I'm
going to preview it with youhere now to help you make this
decision in the best way for you.
First, review Review how you'rereally doing?
How are you doing mentally?
(21:12):
How are you doing emotionallyand how are you doing physically
as it relates to your schoolcounseling job?
E, evaluate what's driving yourcurrent discomfort.
Is it push, is it pull, is itpurpose?
Is it just fatigue from the endof the school year?
(21:33):
Really sit and think throughthat and try to identify what's
really going on.
If these are some new feelingsfor you and you weren't feeling
this way January, february, itmight just be end of the year
fatigue.
Keep that in mind.
A is for acting Only when youfeel grounded in the decision.
(21:57):
Do not panic, do not jump intoa knee-jerk reaction or some
sort of emotional response thatyou might regret later.
Think it through, evaluate it.
Okay, so that's the first threepieces of the READY framework
Review.
First three pieces of the READYframework review evaluate, act.
The next thing we're going todo is delegate.
(22:19):
Now this could either bedelegating some of those
responsibilities, as we talkedabout, if you're in a position
to be able to do that, or itcould be delegating some of the
debate to someone else, talkingit out with other people who get
it, talking with people whounderstand, who have perhaps
(22:40):
been in similar shoes.
Because when we rely only onourselves and we stay stuck in
our heads about this stuff.
Sometimes we can start thinkinga lot of really interesting
things, and sometimes thoseinteresting things aren't
especially helpful.
Saying it out loud gives it adifferent context and a
different nuance.
(23:01):
So delegate some of thatconversation.
Bring someone else into yourcircle so you can really dissect
how you're thinking and feeling.
And Y is for yield.
Yield to what your gut isalready telling you, even if
it's scary, even if it feelslike it's pushing you to play
(23:24):
small or too big or whatever itmight be.
Listen to your gut, to yourintuition, because nine times
out of ten it's not going tosteer you wrong.
Now you might have listened toall of this and be thinking yeah
, you know, that's really niceand I'm glad that some people
(23:52):
get a choice.
But, steph, I don't get achoice.
I'm already under contract fornext year.
Or there's no other schoolcounseling jobs within 60 miles
of where I live, or I can'tafford to leave.
My family depends on my income,my family depends on my
insurance, or I cannot movewhere I do not have the same
schedule as my kids, and therecould be a hundred other similar
(24:14):
reasons.
Right, that's real.
The good news is I'll take thepressure off of you a little bit
.
You don't have to decideanything right now.
You can give yourself somespace to think it through and to
be honest with yourself.
Pick a date a few weeks or afew months away from now, after
(24:36):
the school year has toned down,after the hustle and the bustle
has died down, to ask yourselfwhat do I want my work to look
like and feel like in the nextsix months?
Because sometimes we don't getclarity through some big
lightning flash of epiphanyright.
(24:56):
Sometimes it's just this quiet,knowing that gets louder and
louder as we sit back and let itdevelop.
We can't always push for theanswer and get the answer that
we need.
Sometimes that takes time andyou've got to let it grow of its
own accord.
Sometimes that takes time andyou've got to let it grow of its
own accord Now.
I hope this helped you thinkthrough the different aspects of
(25:20):
staying in your current role,considering leaving that role or
redesigning it, Because, like Isaid, the most important part
to me is that I am able to be asupport to you.
I don't want to give you advice.
I don't want to give you advice.
I don't want to tell you what Ithink you should do in your
circumstance.
I want to give you theframeworks and the
(25:44):
decision-making tools that youcan use to make the best
decision for you.
And I will also tell you frompersonal experience.
If you decide to leave yourposition, you need to be
prepared to grieve.
Even if it was the rightdecision for you, even if you're
leaving a toxic environment,you can't wait to get out of
there.
You're running towardssomething you're super excited
(26:07):
about.
You are still leaving a versionof yourself behind.
You are still leaving behindsomebody who tried hard, who
hoped for the best on thatcampus, who gave and gave and
gave.
So, even though it might be ahappy parting, you might still
(26:28):
feel some grief, and if it's nota happy or amicable situation,
you almost certainly will feelsome heartbreak and maybe some
regret.
If you feel that, if you feelthat heartbreak, regret or
grieving, it doesn't necessarilymean that you made the wrong
(26:49):
call.
I think it means that youshowed up, you gave your whole
heart to what you were doing,and I think that's admirable.
I think that's something to becelebrated, and the great news
is now you can take all of thatheart somewhere else where it
will be a better fit for you.
It will better feed your soulso that you can better serve
(27:13):
students.
Your title may change, yourcampus name or your district
name may be different, but yourpurpose is still there.
Your purpose is still neededand you can still be powerful,
no matter where you land,because you are still a school
(27:35):
counselor.
So if this decision is weighingon you, if you feel like you've
got to decide something, youjust don't know what to do,
please do not carry this alone.
I mentioned before that insidethe School for School Counselors
Mastermind, these are the exactkinds of conversations that,
(27:57):
believe it or not, we have a lot.
As a matter of fact, in thispast year, we've talked with a
few school counselors who weretrying to decide if they wanted
to stay or leave, and we sawdecisions made on both sides.
We don't give fluff, we don'tshame you into leaving or shame
you into staying, and we don'teven really tell you what we
(28:19):
think you should do.
But we do support you, we dotalk it through with people who
have been there and we do try tohelp guide you toward your best
solution.
If that sounds like what youneed, I would love for you to
join us.
You can get more information atschoolforschoolcounselorscom.
(28:42):
Slash mastermind.
My friend, whether you stay orwhether you go, make it a
decision that comes from a placeof wisdom and not from a place
of fear, because you're amazing.
You continue walking throughthe door each and every day
saying give me the worst on thecampus, give me the saddest
(29:06):
stories, the hardest situations,and let me see if I can help
untangle them.
Let me be a helper for some ofthe most terrible things that
have ever happened to students.
And you know what, after I'vehandled that all day long, I'm
going to show up the next dayand I'm going to do it all over
(29:27):
again Because I love helpingkids.
I believe in the power of thepotential of my students and I
am not giving up.
Do you know how incredible thatmakes?
You Celebrate it, be proud ofit and bask in that, because you
(29:48):
are amazing.
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
In the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Take care.
There once was a crow in a cage made of wire, perched
near a market, just feet fromthe fire and the chatter and
clatter and heat of the street.
But the cage felt familiar andthe scraps were a treat.
The door stood open.
He could have flown far.
But why chase the clouds?
When you're fed where you are,it's fine, he told himself day
(00:24):
after day.
Why risk the unknown when it'ssafer to stay?
But seasons passed and theshopkeeper changed.
The scraps came less often, theweather grew strange and
something inside him, quiet atfirst, grew louder and sharper.
Beyond hunger or thirst.
(00:45):
I've lived on crumbs and calledit a life, stayed in a cage
because comfort felt right, Ithought it was safe.
But I've been playing small.
Maybe this cage wasn't awesomeat all.
So one windy morning he lookedto the sky, didn't wait, didn't
weigh, didn't justify.
(01:05):
He spread his wings and, with aheart full of doubt, the crow
finally finally flew out.
Hey, we've been having a lot offun in our School for School
Counselors Mastermind latelywith school counseling poems
courtesy of ChatGPT.
(01:26):
It's been some greatentertainment for us and also
pretty inspirational, and that'skind of what inspired me to
start this podcast episode inthis way, because this is what
we are talking about the momentwhen you realize you might have
outgrown where you are and youmight be thinking about leaving,
(01:48):
or you might be wishing youcould stay, or maybe you're just
completely unsure.
If any of those describe you,my friend, this podcast episode
is for you.
Hey, my friend, welcome back tothe School for School
Counselors podcast.
For the counselors who arejuggling it all and wondering
(02:12):
when it's finally going to makesense, I'm Steph Johnson, a
licensed professional counselor,full-time school counselor just
like you, and founder of Schoolfor School Counselors, where
we've been leading theconversation since 2020.
If you're tired of schoolcounseling advice that sounds
like it came from Pinterest,you're in the right place.
(02:34):
Okay, I'm going to be honestwith you.
I have recorded and re-recordedthis episode several times
because I wanted to try to getit as close to exactly right as
I could, and the reason for thatbeyond any of my other podcast
(02:54):
episodes, where I always try tobe meticulous and thoughtful
about the information I present,this one weighed extra heavy
because it involves such bigideas and things that are so
important to our lives.
If you're feeling unsettled inyour work right now, you are
(03:16):
definitely not alone, and thistime of year always stirs things
up, doesn't it?
Even more than usual, becausewe have all the end of year
pressure, all the chaos oncampus.
The behavior roller coastercontinues to roll on and it all
starts to add up and weigh downon our shoulders, doesn't it?
And for us especially, I feellike this time of year just
(03:41):
feels really heavy, becauseyou've spent months trying to be
everything to everyone at yourschool and you've probably not
really stopped and askedyourself how am I doing anywhere
along the way.
And then, when you finally doget a minute, you start thinking
things like.
You start thinking things likeI don't know if I can do this
(04:04):
again next year.
Do you feel that way?
I mean, we are all so tired andif you are in a place that is
not fulfilling your heart andyour soul, it is easy to start
thinking that direction.
But that's why this podcast andits ideas and its tone was so
(04:25):
important for me to get right.
Because when you seeconversations like this floating
around on social media, you seepeople posting things like A, b
and C are happening on mycampus.
I'm unhappy, I'm not sure I cango somewhere else, but I don't
know what else to do.
Inevitably, the majority ofreplies or comments go along the
(04:47):
line of you know, you've got tomake yourself happy, you've got
to do what's best for you, andwhile that advice is
well-meaning, it's oftenmisdirected.
It's easy to give those littlequips to someone that you don't
know right, or to comment on asituation where you have
absolutely no stake in theoutcome.
(05:08):
You don't have to look thatperson in the eye if it goes the
wrong direction.
Now, I hope this doesn't soundweird, but when I record these
podcast episodes, I see youright in front of me.
I imagine your face, I imaginethat we're having coffee
together and we're having thebest conversation, and so I want
(05:30):
to bring my best to thisconversation to help you really,
really discern what your truethoughts and feelings are about
your situation and to help guideyou toward making the best
decision for you.
Now, typically, when we thinkabout leaving a school
(05:52):
counseling position, it'sbecause you're in one of three
places.
Either you're being pushed out,and that could be through
burnout, maybe you have a toxicprincipal, maybe just the way
things are going at your schooldon't make sense anymore.
Whatever the case may be, thosecircumstances are pushing you
(06:14):
out of the position, or youmight be being pulled towards
something else.
Maybe you see something thatfeels like it's going to be a
better fit, whether that's aposition at another campus or in
another district, or whetherthat's another career field
entirely.
Sometimes we can also feelpulled toward better balance or
(06:40):
just a job that gives you alittle bit more breathing room.
Or third, sometimes you've justoutgrown what you're doing.
You're ready for something more, something bigger.
You're looking for what's next,even if you don't really know
(07:00):
what that is yet.
I can tell you with 100% honesty.
I have been in all three ofthose situations.
I've been in a toxicenvironment that pushed me out
of the school and, to be totallyhonest, I stayed way longer
than I should have.
I have been pulled into newpositions where I could strike a
(07:30):
better professional balance.
I came out of a little highertrauma situation into something
a little bit more manageable.
And then I have been in aposition where I've outgrown
where I am and, incidentally,that's why you're listening to
this podcast I am and,incidentally, that's why you're
listening to this podcast,because it helped me to address
(07:51):
that next thing.
I decided that I wanted to staywith what I was doing, that I
wanted to grow and help moreschool counselors in a different
kind of way.
But back to you, because that'swhat this is all about.
(08:15):
Here are some questions to kindof get you thinking in which
direction you feel you might bebeing pushed or pulled or drawn
toward.
First, is your schoolcounseling role now aligned to
what matters to you?
Some of us have a heart fortrauma-informed work, but we
can't engage in that on ourcampuses.
It's dismissed, it's poo-pooed,no one wants to hear about
(08:35):
trauma and it's demoralizing.
Some of us have a spot in ourhearts for students with special
needs, but we're not allowed toserve them on our campuses.
That's for the school psych orthe therapist.
Some of us are drawn towardbuilding relationships with
community agencies and bringingoutside factors into the campus,
(08:56):
but that's frowned upon whereyou are.
They circle the wagons.
They don't want to let anybodyin.
Could be a lot of things.
But is your job aligned withwhat matters to you?
Then consider is your jobsustainable for your health, for
your family and for your sanity, right, your peace of mind?
(09:19):
Can you keep going in the rolethat you're currently in and can
you grow in your currentposition?
Or are you just sticking aroundbecause it's familiar or you
don't know where else to go.
These are really important, andthat last one is particularly
(09:41):
important because, like the crow, you don't want to stick around
and get the scraps just becausethat's all you've ever known.
Right Now, I'm not telling youagain that if you're unhappy you
should leave, but I do want youto consider these questions.
You might be thinking aboutleaving if you've tried
(10:02):
advocating on your campus butnothing has changed.
Or worse, you've triedadvocating on your campus and
you have been activelyundermined.
That's not a fun feeling.
You might be dealing with a lotof physical symptoms like
(10:28):
headaches, insomnia or that gutpunch on Sunday night knowing
that you have to walk throughthe doors on Monday morning.
You may have stopped dreamingabout what's next and your
daydreams are now solely focusedaround quitting.
Or maybe you're in a situationwhere you're bending your ethics
just to make it through the day.
If those hit a little bit tooclose to home, it might be time
(10:51):
to listen to your nervous system.
So make a values versus realitylist.
To be sure, write down your topfive non-negotiables.
What are the qualities, thecharacteristics, the components
(11:15):
of life for you that arenon-negotiable?
You can Google a list of corevalues, if that helps you come
up with the vocabulary.
What is it that drives you, notonly in your work but in your
day-to-day life Generosity,altruism, leadership,
(11:38):
understanding.
What is it that fills yourheart with joy and gives you a
purpose?
And then consider, after you'vemade that list, how many of
those are present in your workright now.
Or are you finding yourselfconstantly having to make peace
with the fact that they're notthere?
If most of your core valueshave been missing for a while,
(11:59):
it might be time to ask yourselfwhat it's costing you to stay
and that's not quitting myfriend no-transcript.
So, that being said, let's notpretend like leaving is always
the answer.
Sometimes the best thing youcan do for yourself is to stay,
(12:24):
or sometimes that's the onlyoption that you have.
Let's be honest.
If you're still learning whereyou are right now, or if you're
in a season where you need thestability of knowing you have
the job, knowing what your payis, knowing that you have those
benefits, that's real.
(12:45):
Or maybe you really like thepeople that you work with, you
really like your students, oryou like the things you do day
to day.
You just don't love everythingthat's going on.
You might want to considersticking around.
So you have to do it in a waythat still feels sustainable,
(13:08):
that you are not going to end uphating your job and your life
by the end of next year.
So block off some sacred timefor yourself and you may be
laughing at me right now becauseI know that feels impossible on
so many school campuses, but Ipromise you, if you get
intentional about this, it canbe done.
(13:29):
You can find those pockets inthe day that are less likely to
harbor explosions.
You can find a little bit oftime in your day to close your
office door, maybe to hide inthe closet if you need to, just
to have a minute to think and tohave your own time to process
whatever it is you've been doingthat day.
(13:50):
That is not an unreasonableexpectation.
You could also think about someof the non-counseling things
you've been doing just becausenobody else will do it, and
figure out how to startdownloading that to someone else
, not necessarily standing upand planting the flag and saying
(14:11):
I am not doing this anymore.
This is not a school counselingresponsibility.
You've seen those lists, right?
Yeah, don't do that.
Don't present youradministrator with a list and
say I'm not doing this anymore,because 99% of the time that
does not go well, but you canstart thinking about how you can
ease your way out of thoseresponsibilities.
(14:32):
And again, if you're listeningand you're thinking, ain't no
way, steph, there is no way thatis ever going to happen.
That's where good consultationcomes into the picture, because
when you're engaging in goodquality consultation with the
same professional cadre, whathappens is those people get to
(14:54):
know you.
They get to know your school,your campus, how it works.
They know your circumstances,they know your circumstances,
they know your challenges.
And then, as we start to haveconversations about how to
offload some of these things,they give you suggestions that
actually make sense because theyknow you.
And this is where the internetquestions and chats with people
(15:19):
you don't know go wrong.
This is where other types ofconsultation that are provided
through other school counselororganizations falls flat.
No shade.
But when you're only meetingonce a month, it doesn't cut it.
But I digress.
So we're blocking off some timefor ourselves 30 minutes, even
once a week, then looking atoffloading some of the things
(15:44):
that we've done just becausenobody else would do them, and
then start tracking your use oftime.
I know, I know it is so hard,but I promise you it is
eye-opening and it's going tohelp you tell a story about your
time, not only to yourself, butto the people that make these
kinds of decisions on yourcampus.
(16:05):
Again, that's something that welook at intensively throughout
the school year in our Schoolfor School Counselors,
mastermind.
But the point is being able toname the ways that the system is
set up unfairly, being able tojustify just a smidge of
downtime in your week andknowing where your efforts are
(16:26):
really going.
That gives you power where youare.
So if you decide that you wantto stay or that's the only
option that you have, thesethings can give you a little bit
of solace and a little bit ofstrength as you work toward the
next thing.
Now there is a third optionbeyond leaving or staying.
(16:47):
If you're not ready to leavebut you don't wanna stay with
the way things are and you don'tfeel like the suggestions I've
just given are good enough.
They're not going to move theneedle enough for you.
Suggestions I've just given aregood enough.
They're not going to move theneedle enough for you.
You might be able to stay andredesign your role if the
environment will support it.
(17:15):
Sometimes that does mean againshifting some responsibilities.
Sometimes it means making acase for a different kind of
schedule.
So many of you are scheduled tothe minute throughout your day
that you're almost not even acounselor anymore.
You're more like an SEL teacher, right, and you throw some
moments of emergency response inbetween the classes that you're
teaching Y'all.
That is crazy.
That is absolutely nuts that weare expecting school counselors
(17:39):
to do that.
So if your environment cansupport it, you might be in a
position where you can make acase for a better schedule or
again use that data to back upthese requests for some other
changes that you've been askingfor.
Sometimes your leadership isgoing to be open to that.
Sometimes they'll surprise you.
(18:00):
I do think it's important tohave laid a fundamental
foundation of knowing, likingand trusting.
So this is not something thatyou're going to be able to walk
in first year, maybe even secondor third year and suggest and
have everybody jumping up anddown for joy at your suggestions
because you're so smart andbrilliant.
(18:20):
Now, we know you're smart andbrilliant, but they're not going
to see your brilliance untilthey've worked with you for a
little while, and that processmoves more slowly than I think
we sometimes realize, becauseprincipals have been burned by
teachers and by other staffmembers, who show up like rock
(18:41):
stars and then the longer timegoes on, the more their actual,
real selves start to shinethrough.
And so, fair or not, you'rekind of in that bucket until you
prove it wrong.
You've got to get in there anddo some good work, build your
authority, develop some cloutwith your administrators so that
(19:02):
you're in a position to makethese suggestions and be
successful.
It is possible to do that and,again, with some good
consultation, you're going to beable to travel down that path
much more successfully.
But if you've already triedthat and not only were you
turned down, because that's notthe end of the world, right, you
(19:23):
can always try again.
But if you were dismissed, ifyou were minimized or you were
made to feel like you were theproblem, then that door is
probably a door that's locked toyou and that might tell you
everything you need to know.
A door that's locked to you andthat might tell you everything
you need to know.
So, with all of this in mind,thinking about the end of your
(19:44):
stressors and tiredness andfatigue, thinking about whether
we're being pushed out, pulledtowards something else or we've
just outgrown where we are andwhether we want to or have to
stay, stay or whether we thinkit's time to go or redesign what
we're doing.
How can we decide what's bestfor us?
(20:07):
Because, like I said, I've beenin all of these situations and,
speaking for myself, my brainfelt a little bit like a tornado
.
I had all of these thoughtsswirling around and around and
around and I couldn't quitecatch anything and hold on to it
long enough to feel confidentin the decision.
It was really, really tough.
(20:29):
It was like that old movie,twister have you ever seen that
movie?
And the cow was flying aroundin the tornado.
It would be like reaching upand trying to grab that cow.
You're not going to be able todo it, but these big decisions
sometimes feel like that, don'tthey?
They take a while to tease out.
So how are we going to figurethat out?
Use a ready framework.
(20:51):
Now, this is a sneak peek of aframework that I'm going to be
talking about a lot more as weget into back to school, but I'm
going to preview it with youhere now to help you make this
decision in the best way for you.
First, review Review how you'rereally doing?
How are you doing mentally?
(21:12):
How are you doing emotionallyand how are you doing physically
as it relates to your schoolcounseling job?
E, evaluate what's driving yourcurrent discomfort.
Is it push, is it pull, is itpurpose?
Is it just fatigue from the endof the school year?
(21:33):
Really sit and think throughthat and try to identify what's
really going on.
If these are some new feelingsfor you and you weren't feeling
this way January, february, itmight just be end of the year
fatigue.
Keep that in mind.
A is for acting Only when youfeel grounded in the decision.
(21:57):
Do not panic, do not jump intoa knee-jerk reaction or some
sort of emotional response thatyou might regret later.
Think it through, evaluate it.
Okay, so that's the first threepieces of the READY framework
Review.
First three pieces of the READYframework review evaluate, act.
The next thing we're going todo is delegate.
(22:19):
Now this could either bedelegating some of those
responsibilities, as we talkedabout, if you're in a position
to be able to do that, or itcould be delegating some of the
debate to someone else, talkingit out with other people who get
it, talking with people whounderstand, who have perhaps
(22:40):
been in similar shoes.
Because when we rely only onourselves and we stay stuck in
our heads about this stuff.
Sometimes we can start thinkinga lot of really interesting
things, and sometimes thoseinteresting things aren't
especially helpful.
Saying it out loud gives it adifferent context and a
different nuance.
(23:01):
So delegate some of thatconversation.
Bring someone else into yourcircle so you can really dissect
how you're thinking and feeling.
And Y is for yield.
Yield to what your gut isalready telling you, even if
it's scary, even if it feelslike it's pushing you to play
(23:24):
small or too big or whatever itmight be.
Listen to your gut, to yourintuition, because nine times
out of ten it's not going tosteer you wrong.
Now you might have listened toall of this and be thinking yeah
, you know, that's really niceand I'm glad that some people
(23:52):
get a choice.
But, steph, I don't get achoice.
I'm already under contract fornext year.
Or there's no other schoolcounseling jobs within 60 miles
of where I live, or I can'tafford to leave.
My family depends on my income,my family depends on my
insurance, or I cannot movewhere I do not have the same
schedule as my kids, and therecould be a hundred other similar
(24:14):
reasons.
Right, that's real.
The good news is I'll take thepressure off of you a little bit
.
You don't have to decideanything right now.
You can give yourself somespace to think it through and to
be honest with yourself.
Pick a date a few weeks or afew months away from now, after
(24:36):
the school year has toned down,after the hustle and the bustle
has died down, to ask yourselfwhat do I want my work to look
like and feel like in the nextsix months?
Because sometimes we don't getclarity through some big
lightning flash of epiphanyright.
(24:56):
Sometimes it's just this quiet,knowing that gets louder and
louder as we sit back and let itdevelop.
We can't always push for theanswer and get the answer that
we need.
Sometimes that takes time andyou've got to let it grow of its
own accord.
Sometimes that takes time andyou've got to let it grow of its
own accord Now.
I hope this helped you thinkthrough the different aspects of
(25:20):
staying in your current role,considering leaving that role or
redesigning it, Because, like Isaid, the most important part
to me is that I am able to be asupport to you.
I don't want to give you advice.
I don't want to give you advice.
I don't want to tell you what Ithink you should do in your
circumstance.
I want to give you theframeworks and the
(25:44):
decision-making tools that youcan use to make the best
decision for you.
And I will also tell you frompersonal experience.
If you decide to leave yourposition, you need to be
prepared to grieve.
Even if it was the rightdecision for you, even if you're
leaving a toxic environment,you can't wait to get out of
there.
You're running towardssomething you're super excited
(26:07):
about.
You are still leaving a versionof yourself behind.
You are still leaving behindsomebody who tried hard, who
hoped for the best on thatcampus, who gave and gave and
gave.
So, even though it might be ahappy parting, you might still
(26:28):
feel some grief, and if it's nota happy or amicable situation,
you almost certainly will feelsome heartbreak and maybe some
regret.
If you feel that, if you feelthat heartbreak, regret or
grieving, it doesn't necessarilymean that you made the wrong
(26:49):
call.
I think it means that youshowed up, you gave your whole
heart to what you were doing,and I think that's admirable.
I think that's something to becelebrated, and the great news
is now you can take all of thatheart somewhere else where it
will be a better fit for you.
It will better feed your soulso that you can better serve
(27:13):
students.
Your title may change, yourcampus name or your district
name may be different, but yourpurpose is still there.
Your purpose is still neededand you can still be powerful,
no matter where you land,because you are still a school
(27:35):
counselor.
So if this decision is weighingon you, if you feel like you've
got to decide something, youjust don't know what to do,
please do not carry this alone.
I mentioned before that insidethe School for School Counselors
Mastermind, these are the exactkinds of conversations that,
(27:57):
believe it or not, we have a lot.
As a matter of fact, in thispast year, we've talked with a
few school counselors who weretrying to decide if they wanted
to stay or leave, and we sawdecisions made on both sides.
We don't give fluff, we don'tshame you into leaving or shame
you into staying, and we don'teven really tell you what we
(28:19):
think you should do.
But we do support you, we dotalk it through with people who
have been there and we do try tohelp guide you toward your best
solution.
If that sounds like what youneed, I would love for you to
join us.
You can get more information atschoolforschoolcounselorscom.
(28:42):
Slash mastermind.
My friend, whether you stay orwhether you go, make it a
decision that comes from a placeof wisdom and not from a place
of fear, because you're amazing.
You continue walking throughthe door each and every day
saying give me the worst on thecampus, give me the saddest
(29:06):
stories, the hardest situations,and let me see if I can help
untangle them.
Let me be a helper for some ofthe most terrible things that
have ever happened to students.
And you know what, after I'vehandled that all day long, I'm
going to show up the next dayand I'm going to do it all over
(29:27):
again Because I love helpingkids.
I believe in the power of thepotential of my students and I
am not giving up.
Do you know how incredible thatmakes?
You Celebrate it, be proud ofit and bask in that, because you
(29:48):
are amazing.
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
In the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Take care.
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