March 31, 2025 • 24 mins
⭐️ Join the School for School Counselors Mastermind today to become the school counselor you were meant to be. ⭐️
**********************************
You get the call:
“Can you come get this student?”
But when you walk in, it’s clear- this isn’t really about the kid.
It’s about stress. Dysregulation. Maybe even burnout. For the adult.
And if school counselors keep stepping in without asking bigger questions, we’re not solving the problem… we’re just keeping the cycle going.
In this episode, we’re talking about:
- How to tell when a referral isn’t about student behavior
- The Five-Minute Behavior Consult you can use with teachers today
- How to support staff without becoming the fixer
- Why this shift protects your energy- and your job
If behavior support is starting to feel like your full-time job, this episode is for you.
00:00 Introduction: The Daily Struggles of School Counselors
02:10 Understanding Adult Dysregulation in Schools
07:17 Identifying Signs of Adult-Induced Student Behavior Issues
11:30 The Five Minute Behavior Consult: A Solution-Focused Approach
17:35 Implementing Change Despite Administrative Challenges
21:00 The Role of School Counselors in Shaping School Culture
24:40 Elevating the Role of School Counselors
References:
Gallup. (2022, June 1). K-12 workers have highest burnout rate in U.S. Gallup News. https://news.gallup.com/poll/393500/workers-highest-burnout-rate.aspx
Schwartz, S. (2022, June 15). Stress, burnout, depression: Teachers and principals are not OK right now, new data confirm. Education Week. https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/stress-burnout-depression-teachers-and-principals-are-not-doing-well-new-data-confirm/2022/06
Steiner, E. D., & Woo, A. (2021). Job-related stress threatens the teacher supply: Key findings from the 2021 State of the U.S. Teacher Survey (RR-A1108-1). RAND Corporation. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1108-1.html
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Our goal at School for School Counselors is to help school counselors stay on fire, make huge impacts for students, and catalyze change for our roles through grassroots advocacy and collaboration. Listen to get to know more about us and our mission, feel empowered and inspired, and set yourself up for success in the wonderful world of school counseling.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are elbows deep in a student check-in, maybe
you're helping students workthrough a conflict, or you're
helping somebody calm down, andthen the phone rings Come get
this student, I have had enough.
And just like that, your dayshifts.
You're walking down the hallwaytoward another behavior
(00:22):
situation again.
Maybe it's your third one inthe week.
Maybe it's your third one inthe week, maybe it's your third
one in a day.
And, if we're being honest,these situations get to where
they're not even about thestudent anymore.
Here's the truth that nobodyreally wants to say out loud.
(00:42):
Sometimes, the real behaviorproblem isn't the student, it's
the adult in the room.
And when we, as schoolcounselors, jump in to fix those
issues, every time we becomepart of the problem Ouch, that
hurts, doesn't it?
(01:03):
We are helpers, we want to makethings better, and that's a
bitter pill to swallow.
I know that because I've beenthere, but I'm telling you we
have some solutions to this sothat you don't have to worry
anymore.
Hey there, welcome back to theSchool for School Counselors
(01:25):
podcast, where we talk aboutwhat's really happening on
school campuses in real time andhow you can show up with
confidence, clarity and strategy.
I'm Steph Johnson, a full-timeschool counselor just like you,
who believes that you don't needfluff or gimmicks or pre-made
printables to do powerful,impactful work.
(01:47):
You just need real talk, realskills and a little bit of
backup.
And that's what I'm here to doeach and every week, whether
you're listening on your driveto school during your lunch
break or hiding in an officecloset for five minutes of peace
.
And I know because I've beenthere.
I am so glad you're here.
(02:10):
We've been talking a lot aboutbehavior intervention for the
past four episodes and we'regoing to continue today because,
like it or not, this isprobably a big part of your job,
especially during particulartimes of the year.
Several months ago, in episode111, we took a big picture look
(02:31):
at what happens when adults oncampus are dysregulated, what it
looks like, what's driving allof that and how we as school
counselors can help withoutstepping on toes.
So if you missed that episode,you might want to go back and
give it a listen, because itprovides a great foundation for
(02:51):
today's conversation.
So now we're zooming in.
We're talking about what you dowhen that adult dysregulation
turns into a behavior referralfor a student.
What do you say when the callcomes through again?
And you know the issue probablyisn't the student at all.
(03:15):
Now I want to be real with youfor a second, because I know
that you work on a campus justlike I do, so you know as well
as I do that many of the folksthat we work with are not open
to feedback.
They are not interested inchanging anything about how
they've been handling things intheir classrooms and, truth be
told, some of them are barelyholding it together.
(03:38):
There are some recent studiesthat showcase this reality.
According to a 2022 Gallup poll, 44% of K-12 teachers in the US
reported feeling burned outoften or always, and that was a
rate higher than in any otherprofession other profession.
(04:12):
Nearly three-fourths ofteachers and 85% of principals
experience frequent job-relatedstress, and this kind of mass
burnout affects not onlyeducators' well-being but their
capacity to manage theirclassrooms effectively.
So that ends up putting us in areally weird space, because we
know nothing is going to trulychange unless the adult changes.
(04:33):
But we also don't want todamage those relationships or
risk coming across like we'rejudging people who already feel
like they're maxed out, and thisis the moment where most of us
I mean, we just give in, we goget the kid, we try to smooth
things over and we become thefixer again.
(04:56):
But I want to remind you ofsomething that I have said in
every behavior-related episodein this series, because it is
1,000% true If you keepintervening in the symptoms, the
root of the issue never getsaddressed.
And in these situations, theroot concern may not be student
(05:22):
behavior at all.
Concern may not be studentbehavior at all.
We often talk about dysregulatedstudents Feels like every day,
doesn't it?
But let's switch gears andlet's talk about dysregulated
adults, because here's what weknow.
We know that the adult nervoussystem sets the tone for a
(05:44):
classroom.
We know that stress iscontagious and that
dysregulation spreads.
If you don't believe me, gohang out in a pre-kindergarten
or kindergarten classroomsometime.
We know that what looks likebad behavior is sometimes a
(06:06):
reaction to adult energy.
And we also know that youcannot out-intervene a
dysregulated classroom.
It is like showing up andtrying to plug a volcano with a
Band-Aid.
It's not going to work.
But let me be super clear here.
This isn't about blaming ourteachers.
(06:28):
They are all trying theirabsolute best with ridiculous
expectations in place for theirwork.
It's chaotic, it's overwhelming.
And honestly, think to yourselfwould you raise your hand to
volunteer to go teach full-timein a classroom right now?
(06:51):
I'm guessing no.
But if we only respond tostudent behavior and we never
take a step back to assess theadult dynamic in the room, then
we're just putting out smoke andthe fire is still burning.
So we've got to look at what'sunderneath chronic student
(07:15):
misbehavior.
Are there ways that we can tellwhen it's not really the kid?
Here are some signs.
One, the student only strugglesin one or two classrooms.
Or the teacher tells you thingslike I have tried everything,
(07:35):
but they can't give youspecifics.
Third, the teacher's complaintor referral feels very emotional
, very vague or very reactionary.
You might hear phrases likethey're always doing whatever or
they never whatever.
That's very common.
Or fourth and this is a greattell the student immediately
(08:01):
calms down when you remove themfrom the environment.
Student immediately calms downwhen you remove them from the
environment.
Have you ever had a studentthat the moment you show up and
say, hey, let's get out of herefor a minute, they go right with
you with no problems?
Now that could be a testamentto the great relationship that
you've built with that student.
But at the same time it's alsoa cue that something is not
(08:25):
right in the environment.
These are all signals.
They don't mean the teacher isdoing something wrong.
They probably mean that theadult in that classroom the
teacher is overwhelmed, feelsunsupported and probably doesn't
know what else to do, whichcreates a beautiful opportunity
(08:49):
for you not to rescue but toconsult about student behavior.
Now, before we get into how youcan protect yourself from being
the constant on-call behaviorfireman on your campus, we need
to talk a second about you,because if you're the one that's
(09:12):
always stepping in, if you'rethe one that's always called to
calm things down, if you're theone walking students out of
classrooms and up and down thehallways and if you're the one
taking heat off of the teachersyou're also teaching staff that
you're always going to be thereto save the day and y'all that
(09:33):
has consequences, like it or not, you're going to end up feeling
drained.
I remember so many times on aparticular campus that when I
heard an initial call out on thewalkie, I immediately braced
myself and got super tensebefore I even knew if the call
was for me, because I had beenin super reactive mode for so
(09:56):
long and had felt overwhelmedwith behavior requests for so
long.
I just knew I was ready tospring into action and it was a
terrible feeling to have all daylong.
So you get drained, but youalso start to lose credibility
as a leader on your campus andthen Nobody grows.
(10:18):
So we're not talking aboutbeing resistant to helping.
We're talking about teaching ahealthy respect for your role at
your school and for thelong-term impacts.
So how do we reset your role?
How do we move you from thefixer to the consultant?
(10:43):
When you get that call, can youcome get this student?
I need this student removed.
Pause, ask yourself is this atrue behavior crisis or is this
a moment where I could show up,not to remove, but to serve as a
(11:05):
resource?
You are not a classroom manager.
You're not the emergencyremoval service for the school.
You are a strategic support forstudents and staff, and that
means you can step into thesesituations with a purpose and a
plan to change the extent ofyour involvement.
(11:30):
One amazing way that you can dothat is through the five-minute
behavior consult.
This is where yoursolution-focused counseling
skills come into play.
Don't panic, because when wetalk about solution-focused
counseling, we imaginecounseling sessions.
Right, that's not what I'masking you to do.
(11:51):
I don't think you should bescheduling teachers for
15-minute meetings in the middleof your day.
I think you need something moresimple, something faster and
something equally as powerful.
So the five-minute behaviorconsult serves as a fast,
future-focused conversation thathas roots in solution-focused
(12:14):
principles.
It helps the teacher move fromI'm stuck to I have something I
can try.
Move from I'm stuck to I havesomething I can try.
So if you know yoursolution-focused counseling
principles, you know that whenwe engage in this type of
conversation, we focus on what'sworking.
We're going to askfuture-oriented questions what
(12:38):
would things look like if theywere just 10% better?
And we're going to empowerteachers, because we're not
solving the problem, we're notthrowing a bunch of strategies
at them, we're just helping themfind the next best step.
Whether you catch this teacherin the hallway in passing, you
(13:01):
stop by after a class or yousend a quick email, you can use
this structure every single time.
First, we're going to askwhat's happening and we need to
ask for specific behavior.
If we hear labels like he's outof control or she's always out
(13:22):
of her her seat, or he'sconstantly disrupting the class,
that doesn't help.
We need to know specificallywhat are the behaviors that are
happening.
Second, when does it happen?
Can we find patterns, touncover triggers.
Is it the time of day, thesubject being taught?
(13:45):
Is it transition times?
Is it proximity to peers?
There are all kinds ofpossibilities here, so let's
narrow it down.
Then, after we've defined what'shappening and when it happens,
we ask what's been tried already?
This avoids us repeating thethings the teacher's already
(14:06):
done, because how many timeshave you seen folks kind of roll
their eyes and throw theirhands up in exasperation and say
I've already done that.
They're going to feelfrustrated with you and like
you're trying to reinvent thewheel.
We want to avoid that and wealso want to show the teacher
that the efforts they've put inso far are seen.
And then, fourth, out of thethings you've tried, what's
(14:29):
worked, even if it was just atiny bit?
This is a key right here,because even partial success is
going to lead you toward whatcan really work.
And then, last, we're going toask what one small thing do you
think you could try next?
(14:50):
We're not aiming at a fulloverhaul, we're just looking at
that next best step.
What does that teacher feelthey can actually do today
without needing to get anytraining or an extra prep period
or a miracle right?
What one small thing can theytry.
(15:14):
So let me recap that, becausethat is powerful.
It is so simple on one leveland so profound on another.
What's happening?
When does it happen?
What's been tried already?
What's worked, even just alittle bit, and what one small
(15:35):
thing would you like to try next?
If we ask these questions andwe're very intentional about the
conversation, it won't fixeverything, but it will create
movement and when people feel alittle bit of momentum, they're
more hopeful, they're moreconfident and they become way
(15:58):
more open to change.
And then here's the part aboutthis that most people miss After
you've had this conversationand the teacher has committed to
that one small next step, youcircle back, check in with them,
(16:26):
give them some encouragement,reinforce not only the student's
progress but the teacher'sprogress too, because if we're
real about what it's like towork on a school campus, most
teachers do not get positivefeedback unless it's like
teacher appreciation week orsomething like that.
Your support might be the onething that keeps them from
walking out the door.
If your administrators are notalready empowering teachers in
(16:51):
tough situations, or if theydon't truly understand what it
takes to rebuild a classroomdynamic, you have the
opportunity to step in quietlybut powerfully and with
intention and, as a bonus, whenthat teacher feels more
confident managing a student'sbehavior, it's one less behavior
(17:14):
referral for you.
Sounds great, right, soundsamazing.
We'll have these quick consultswith teachers.
They'll be solution focused,we'll lead them toward the next
best step and we won't berunning to classrooms all the
time to extricate students,won't let you step back from
(17:44):
in-the-moment behaviorintervention.
What if somehow, somewhere, youinadvertently drew the short
straw and you are the de factobehavior crisis response on your
canvas and no one's willing toback off of that expectation for
you?
What do you do then?
This is where it gets sticky.
But I promise you we don't haveto throw this five-minute
(18:05):
consultation approach out thewindow.
You still have room to shift,even when it feels like things
are never going to change.
Here's how you can do it.
First, you can start layeringin consults.
So, even if you're walking inthat classroom and removing that
student, you can offer tocircle back with the teacher.
(18:29):
You can come back around whenthings are calmer.
You can ask a question, maybelead them toward a small shift.
You can begin communicatingyour expertise.
You can begin communicatingyour expertise.
You do not just have tophysically use your body to
remove the student, to createchange in that classroom.
(18:49):
Circle back and just layer inthe consults.
Secondly, show youradministrators what you're
seeing.
This is where your data comesin clutch Track how often you're
called for these behaviorconcerns.
How long does it pull you awayfrom what you were supposed to
(19:09):
be doing?
What percentage of your weekare behavior crisis calls taking
up?
Now, if you're not sure how tostart that process or you feel
overwhelmed in capturing youruse of time data, that's
something that we work on allthe time in our School for
School Counselors, mastermind,because we know your numbers,
(19:31):
tell your story and we have somany members in the Mastermind
that have done just that To beable to make a case for
additional supports, for betteraccommodations and even to keep
their current jobs.
We know how to do this.
(19:52):
So if you're having troublewith that data, come join us and
let us help you out, because ifyou don't show your
administrators through your data, what's going on, nobody else
is going to do it.
That's showing strategy, notrefusal.
So it's not about rebellingagainst the expectation for you
(20:14):
at your school.
It's just about realigning yourintents and purposes.
Your intents and purposes.
So we've talked about how totell when it's not really a
concern with the student so muchas it is with the adult in the
room.
We've talked aboutstrategically shifting from
being the behavior fixer to thebehavior consultant, and we've
(20:39):
talked about how you can conducta five-minute behavior consult
with teachers in asolution-focused way to empower
them to find their next beststeps.
And we even talked about whatto do if your administration is
reluctant to let you do all ofthat.
(21:00):
But now let's zoom out a minute,because I don't know if you
know this.
I just learned about itrecently but the National
Association of Social Workersjust dropped their new school
social work framework and y'all,they did not hold back.
They are stepping very boldlyinto the space that school
(21:24):
counselors used to own and theyare talking about things like
ethics, decision-making,record-keeping, multi-tiered
interventions, mental health,coordination.
It is all in that plan.
Now listen, before you getworried, this isn't about
competition, but it is aboutclarity.
(21:48):
Because of the weakness and theineptitude of your national
organization yes, I said it theAmerican School Counselor
Association has not done a goodjob of developing awareness or
garnering support for our work.
(22:09):
They have stood on thesidelines, produced a bunch of
paper work.
They have stood on thesidelines, produced a bunch of
paper and have pointed fingerssaying thou shalt not.
Because of that, we are beingchallenged.
And so, as a grassroots effort,I know that if we do not claim
our space as experts in schoolcounseling, there are more than
(22:31):
enough folks who will be glad tostep into our shoes.
Now is not the time to be theperson that comes and picks up a
student and disappears.
Now is the time that we shouldbe leading with strategy and
skills and clarity about whatschool counselors actually do.
(22:56):
And when you approach behaviorsupport through the lens of real
counseling, likesolution-focused approaches,
you're not just helping students, you're proving your value.
You're helping protect yourrole.
You're proving your value,you're helping protect your role
(23:16):
and you're elevating your jobon campus.
My friend, you were neverintended to be a behavior
bouncer.
You are not on your campus tobe the emotional shock absorber
and you are not there to be theBand-Aid every time something
breaks.
You are there to lead, andsometimes leadership looks like
(23:40):
walking toward a dysregulatedteacher or adult, not with
judgment, but with calm andclarity and compassion, and
saying what's going on, what'sworked, even just a little bit,
what do you think we can try.
Next, it looks like helpingyour staff take one step forward
(24:02):
and then showing up again thenext day to reinforce their
success.
It looks like modeling what aregulated, strategic adult
actually looks like, especiallywhen everybody on your campus
seems to be running on empty.
So the next time that the phonerings and somebody says, come
(24:23):
get this kid, take a breath,hold your ground and remember
it's not just about helping thestudent.
It's time to change the culturearound behavior intervention.
Now, after listening, if you'restill not sure how this could
(24:44):
possibly work on your campus,you're probably not alone.
This is a huge undertaking andit's one that's going to take
time.
I'm actually going to release amini episode later this week,
all about the common objectionsthat school counselors are going
(25:05):
to have to this approach, andthen I'm going to show you how
to make it work, even if you'renot in an ideal situation.
Sound good?
Hey, I have enjoyed all of thisbehavior talk and I hope that
it has been helpful to you.
The number one goal of thispodcast is to bring you the best
(25:26):
and evidence-based bestpractice information for your
school counseling program,because so often you get taken
advantage of, you'reoverutilized and misappropriated
and y'all.
It's time to change that.
You spent years of study andtens of thousands of dollars to
(25:47):
enter this career field and Iknow that you're amazing at what
you do, and one of the ways Iknow that is that you're here
listening to this podcast whenyou could be doing anything else
in the world.
You've decided to listen, tobecome better at your craft, and
so I know you are world class,and I am so grateful and humbled
(26:09):
that you spent a little of yourtime with me.
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
In the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Take care.
You are elbows deep in a student check-in, maybe
you're helping students workthrough a conflict, or you're
helping somebody calm down, andthen the phone rings Come get
this student, I have had enough.
And just like that, your dayshifts.
You're walking down the hallwaytoward another behavior
(00:22):
situation again.
Maybe it's your third one inthe week.
Maybe it's your third one inthe week, maybe it's your third
one in a day.
And, if we're being honest,these situations get to where
they're not even about thestudent anymore.
Here's the truth that nobodyreally wants to say out loud.
(00:42):
Sometimes, the real behaviorproblem isn't the student, it's
the adult in the room.
And when we, as schoolcounselors, jump in to fix those
issues, every time we becomepart of the problem Ouch, that
hurts, doesn't it?
(01:03):
We are helpers, we want to makethings better, and that's a
bitter pill to swallow.
I know that because I've beenthere, but I'm telling you we
have some solutions to this sothat you don't have to worry
anymore.
Hey there, welcome back to theSchool for School Counselors
(01:25):
podcast, where we talk aboutwhat's really happening on
school campuses in real time andhow you can show up with
confidence, clarity and strategy.
I'm Steph Johnson, a full-timeschool counselor just like you,
who believes that you don't needfluff or gimmicks or pre-made
printables to do powerful,impactful work.
(01:47):
You just need real talk, realskills and a little bit of
backup.
And that's what I'm here to doeach and every week, whether
you're listening on your driveto school during your lunch
break or hiding in an officecloset for five minutes of peace
.
And I know because I've beenthere.
I am so glad you're here.
(02:10):
We've been talking a lot aboutbehavior intervention for the
past four episodes and we'regoing to continue today because,
like it or not, this isprobably a big part of your job,
especially during particulartimes of the year.
Several months ago, in episode111, we took a big picture look
(02:31):
at what happens when adults oncampus are dysregulated, what it
looks like, what's driving allof that and how we as school
counselors can help withoutstepping on toes.
So if you missed that episode,you might want to go back and
give it a listen, because itprovides a great foundation for
(02:51):
today's conversation.
So now we're zooming in.
We're talking about what you dowhen that adult dysregulation
turns into a behavior referralfor a student.
What do you say when the callcomes through again?
And you know the issue probablyisn't the student at all.
(03:15):
Now I want to be real with youfor a second, because I know
that you work on a campus justlike I do, so you know as well
as I do that many of the folksthat we work with are not open
to feedback.
They are not interested inchanging anything about how
they've been handling things intheir classrooms and, truth be
told, some of them are barelyholding it together.
(03:38):
There are some recent studiesthat showcase this reality.
According to a 2022 Gallup poll, 44% of K-12 teachers in the US
reported feeling burned outoften or always, and that was a
rate higher than in any otherprofession other profession.
(04:12):
Nearly three-fourths ofteachers and 85% of principals
experience frequent job-relatedstress, and this kind of mass
burnout affects not onlyeducators' well-being but their
capacity to manage theirclassrooms effectively.
So that ends up putting us in areally weird space, because we
know nothing is going to trulychange unless the adult changes.
(04:33):
But we also don't want todamage those relationships or
risk coming across like we'rejudging people who already feel
like they're maxed out, and thisis the moment where most of us
I mean, we just give in, we goget the kid, we try to smooth
things over and we become thefixer again.
(04:56):
But I want to remind you ofsomething that I have said in
every behavior-related episodein this series, because it is
1,000% true If you keepintervening in the symptoms, the
root of the issue never getsaddressed.
And in these situations, theroot concern may not be student
(05:22):
behavior at all.
Concern may not be studentbehavior at all.
We often talk about dysregulatedstudents Feels like every day,
doesn't it?
But let's switch gears andlet's talk about dysregulated
adults, because here's what weknow.
We know that the adult nervoussystem sets the tone for a
(05:44):
classroom.
We know that stress iscontagious and that
dysregulation spreads.
If you don't believe me, gohang out in a pre-kindergarten
or kindergarten classroomsometime.
We know that what looks likebad behavior is sometimes a
(06:06):
reaction to adult energy.
And we also know that youcannot out-intervene a
dysregulated classroom.
It is like showing up andtrying to plug a volcano with a
Band-Aid.
It's not going to work.
But let me be super clear here.
This isn't about blaming ourteachers.
(06:28):
They are all trying theirabsolute best with ridiculous
expectations in place for theirwork.
It's chaotic, it's overwhelming.
And honestly, think to yourselfwould you raise your hand to
volunteer to go teach full-timein a classroom right now?
(06:51):
I'm guessing no.
But if we only respond tostudent behavior and we never
take a step back to assess theadult dynamic in the room, then
we're just putting out smoke andthe fire is still burning.
So we've got to look at what'sunderneath chronic student
(07:15):
misbehavior.
Are there ways that we can tellwhen it's not really the kid?
Here are some signs.
One, the student only strugglesin one or two classrooms.
Or the teacher tells you thingslike I have tried everything,
(07:35):
but they can't give youspecifics.
Third, the teacher's complaintor referral feels very emotional
, very vague or very reactionary.
You might hear phrases likethey're always doing whatever or
they never whatever.
That's very common.
Or fourth and this is a greattell the student immediately
(08:01):
calms down when you remove themfrom the environment.
Student immediately calms downwhen you remove them from the
environment.
Have you ever had a studentthat the moment you show up and
say, hey, let's get out of herefor a minute, they go right with
you with no problems?
Now that could be a testamentto the great relationship that
you've built with that student.
But at the same time it's alsoa cue that something is not
(08:25):
right in the environment.
These are all signals.
They don't mean the teacher isdoing something wrong.
They probably mean that theadult in that classroom the
teacher is overwhelmed, feelsunsupported and probably doesn't
know what else to do, whichcreates a beautiful opportunity
(08:49):
for you not to rescue but toconsult about student behavior.
Now, before we get into how youcan protect yourself from being
the constant on-call behaviorfireman on your campus, we need
to talk a second about you,because if you're the one that's
(09:12):
always stepping in, if you'rethe one that's always called to
calm things down, if you're theone walking students out of
classrooms and up and down thehallways and if you're the one
taking heat off of the teachersyou're also teaching staff that
you're always going to be thereto save the day and y'all that
(09:33):
has consequences, like it or not, you're going to end up feeling
drained.
I remember so many times on aparticular campus that when I
heard an initial call out on thewalkie, I immediately braced
myself and got super tensebefore I even knew if the call
was for me, because I had beenin super reactive mode for so
(09:56):
long and had felt overwhelmedwith behavior requests for so
long.
I just knew I was ready tospring into action and it was a
terrible feeling to have all daylong.
So you get drained, but youalso start to lose credibility
as a leader on your campus andthen Nobody grows.
(10:18):
So we're not talking aboutbeing resistant to helping.
We're talking about teaching ahealthy respect for your role at
your school and for thelong-term impacts.
So how do we reset your role?
How do we move you from thefixer to the consultant?
(10:43):
When you get that call, can youcome get this student?
I need this student removed.
Pause, ask yourself is this atrue behavior crisis or is this
a moment where I could show up,not to remove, but to serve as a
(11:05):
resource?
You are not a classroom manager.
You're not the emergencyremoval service for the school.
You are a strategic support forstudents and staff, and that
means you can step into thesesituations with a purpose and a
plan to change the extent ofyour involvement.
(11:30):
One amazing way that you can dothat is through the five-minute
behavior consult.
This is where yoursolution-focused counseling
skills come into play.
Don't panic, because when wetalk about solution-focused
counseling, we imaginecounseling sessions.
Right, that's not what I'masking you to do.
(11:51):
I don't think you should bescheduling teachers for
15-minute meetings in the middleof your day.
I think you need something moresimple, something faster and
something equally as powerful.
So the five-minute behaviorconsult serves as a fast,
future-focused conversation thathas roots in solution-focused
(12:14):
principles.
It helps the teacher move fromI'm stuck to I have something I
can try.
Move from I'm stuck to I havesomething I can try.
So if you know yoursolution-focused counseling
principles, you know that whenwe engage in this type of
conversation, we focus on what'sworking.
We're going to askfuture-oriented questions what
(12:38):
would things look like if theywere just 10% better?
And we're going to empowerteachers, because we're not
solving the problem, we're notthrowing a bunch of strategies
at them, we're just helping themfind the next best step.
Whether you catch this teacherin the hallway in passing, you
(13:01):
stop by after a class or yousend a quick email, you can use
this structure every single time.
First, we're going to askwhat's happening and we need to
ask for specific behavior.
If we hear labels like he's outof control or she's always out
(13:22):
of her her seat, or he'sconstantly disrupting the class,
that doesn't help.
We need to know specificallywhat are the behaviors that are
happening.
Second, when does it happen?
Can we find patterns, touncover triggers.
Is it the time of day, thesubject being taught?
(13:45):
Is it transition times?
Is it proximity to peers?
There are all kinds ofpossibilities here, so let's
narrow it down.
Then, after we've defined what'shappening and when it happens,
we ask what's been tried already?
This avoids us repeating thethings the teacher's already
(14:06):
done, because how many timeshave you seen folks kind of roll
their eyes and throw theirhands up in exasperation and say
I've already done that.
They're going to feelfrustrated with you and like
you're trying to reinvent thewheel.
We want to avoid that and wealso want to show the teacher
that the efforts they've put inso far are seen.
And then, fourth, out of thethings you've tried, what's
(14:29):
worked, even if it was just atiny bit?
This is a key right here,because even partial success is
going to lead you toward whatcan really work.
And then, last, we're going toask what one small thing do you
think you could try next?
(14:50):
We're not aiming at a fulloverhaul, we're just looking at
that next best step.
What does that teacher feelthey can actually do today
without needing to get anytraining or an extra prep period
or a miracle right?
What one small thing can theytry.
(15:14):
So let me recap that, becausethat is powerful.
It is so simple on one leveland so profound on another.
What's happening?
When does it happen?
What's been tried already?
What's worked, even just alittle bit, and what one small
(15:35):
thing would you like to try next?
If we ask these questions andwe're very intentional about the
conversation, it won't fixeverything, but it will create
movement and when people feel alittle bit of momentum, they're
more hopeful, they're moreconfident and they become way
(15:58):
more open to change.
And then here's the part aboutthis that most people miss After
you've had this conversationand the teacher has committed to
that one small next step, youcircle back, check in with them,
(16:26):
give them some encouragement,reinforce not only the student's
progress but the teacher'sprogress too, because if we're
real about what it's like towork on a school campus, most
teachers do not get positivefeedback unless it's like
teacher appreciation week orsomething like that.
Your support might be the onething that keeps them from
walking out the door.
If your administrators are notalready empowering teachers in
(16:51):
tough situations, or if theydon't truly understand what it
takes to rebuild a classroomdynamic, you have the
opportunity to step in quietlybut powerfully and with
intention and, as a bonus, whenthat teacher feels more
confident managing a student'sbehavior, it's one less behavior
(17:14):
referral for you.
Sounds great, right, soundsamazing.
We'll have these quick consultswith teachers.
They'll be solution focused,we'll lead them toward the next
best step and we won't berunning to classrooms all the
time to extricate students,won't let you step back from
(17:44):
in-the-moment behaviorintervention.
What if somehow, somewhere, youinadvertently drew the short
straw and you are the de factobehavior crisis response on your
canvas and no one's willing toback off of that expectation for
you?
What do you do then?
This is where it gets sticky.
But I promise you we don't haveto throw this five-minute
(18:05):
consultation approach out thewindow.
You still have room to shift,even when it feels like things
are never going to change.
Here's how you can do it.
First, you can start layeringin consults.
So, even if you're walking inthat classroom and removing that
student, you can offer tocircle back with the teacher.
(18:29):
You can come back around whenthings are calmer.
You can ask a question, maybelead them toward a small shift.
You can begin communicatingyour expertise.
You can begin communicatingyour expertise.
You do not just have tophysically use your body to
remove the student, to createchange in that classroom.
(18:49):
Circle back and just layer inthe consults.
Secondly, show youradministrators what you're
seeing.
This is where your data comesin clutch Track how often you're
called for these behaviorconcerns.
How long does it pull you awayfrom what you were supposed to
(19:09):
be doing?
What percentage of your weekare behavior crisis calls taking
up?
Now, if you're not sure how tostart that process or you feel
overwhelmed in capturing youruse of time data, that's
something that we work on allthe time in our School for
School Counselors, mastermind,because we know your numbers,
(19:31):
tell your story and we have somany members in the Mastermind
that have done just that To beable to make a case for
additional supports, for betteraccommodations and even to keep
their current jobs.
We know how to do this.
(19:52):
So if you're having troublewith that data, come join us and
let us help you out, because ifyou don't show your
administrators through your data, what's going on, nobody else
is going to do it.
That's showing strategy, notrefusal.
So it's not about rebellingagainst the expectation for you
(20:14):
at your school.
It's just about realigning yourintents and purposes.
Your intents and purposes.
So we've talked about how totell when it's not really a
concern with the student so muchas it is with the adult in the
room.
We've talked aboutstrategically shifting from
being the behavior fixer to thebehavior consultant, and we've
(20:39):
talked about how you can conducta five-minute behavior consult
with teachers in asolution-focused way to empower
them to find their next beststeps.
And we even talked about whatto do if your administration is
reluctant to let you do all ofthat.
(21:00):
But now let's zoom out a minute,because I don't know if you
know this.
I just learned about itrecently but the National
Association of Social Workersjust dropped their new school
social work framework and y'all,they did not hold back.
They are stepping very boldlyinto the space that school
(21:24):
counselors used to own and theyare talking about things like
ethics, decision-making,record-keeping, multi-tiered
interventions, mental health,coordination.
It is all in that plan.
Now listen, before you getworried, this isn't about
competition, but it is aboutclarity.
(21:48):
Because of the weakness and theineptitude of your national
organization yes, I said it theAmerican School Counselor
Association has not done a goodjob of developing awareness or
garnering support for our work.
(22:09):
They have stood on thesidelines, produced a bunch of
paper work.
They have stood on thesidelines, produced a bunch of
paper and have pointed fingerssaying thou shalt not.
Because of that, we are beingchallenged.
And so, as a grassroots effort,I know that if we do not claim
our space as experts in schoolcounseling, there are more than
(22:31):
enough folks who will be glad tostep into our shoes.
Now is not the time to be theperson that comes and picks up a
student and disappears.
Now is the time that we shouldbe leading with strategy and
skills and clarity about whatschool counselors actually do.
(22:56):
And when you approach behaviorsupport through the lens of real
counseling, likesolution-focused approaches,
you're not just helping students, you're proving your value.
You're helping protect yourrole.
You're proving your value,you're helping protect your role
(23:16):
and you're elevating your jobon campus.
My friend, you were neverintended to be a behavior
bouncer.
You are not on your campus tobe the emotional shock absorber
and you are not there to be theBand-Aid every time something
breaks.
You are there to lead, andsometimes leadership looks like
(23:40):
walking toward a dysregulatedteacher or adult, not with
judgment, but with calm andclarity and compassion, and
saying what's going on, what'sworked, even just a little bit,
what do you think we can try.
Next, it looks like helpingyour staff take one step forward
(24:02):
and then showing up again thenext day to reinforce their
success.
It looks like modeling what aregulated, strategic adult
actually looks like, especiallywhen everybody on your campus
seems to be running on empty.
So the next time that the phonerings and somebody says, come
(24:23):
get this kid, take a breath,hold your ground and remember
it's not just about helping thestudent.
It's time to change the culturearound behavior intervention.
Now, after listening, if you'restill not sure how this could
(24:44):
possibly work on your campus,you're probably not alone.
This is a huge undertaking andit's one that's going to take
time.
I'm actually going to release amini episode later this week,
all about the common objectionsthat school counselors are going
(25:05):
to have to this approach, andthen I'm going to show you how
to make it work, even if you'renot in an ideal situation.
Sound good?
Hey, I have enjoyed all of thisbehavior talk and I hope that
it has been helpful to you.
The number one goal of thispodcast is to bring you the best
(25:26):
and evidence-based bestpractice information for your
school counseling program,because so often you get taken
advantage of, you'reoverutilized and misappropriated
and y'all.
It's time to change that.
You spent years of study andtens of thousands of dollars to
(25:47):
enter this career field and Iknow that you're amazing at what
you do, and one of the ways Iknow that is that you're here
listening to this podcast whenyou could be doing anything else
in the world.
You've decided to listen, tobecome better at your craft, and
so I know you are world class,and I am so grateful and humbled
(26:09):
that you spent a little of yourtime with me.
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
In the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Take care.
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