March 31, 2025 • 13 mins
Note: This is an April Fools parody episode!
Have you ever wondered what it was like to fight people with swords in the olden days, before people invented guns, or just talking things out? Me neither. But in this episode, I look into HEMA which stands for Historical European Martial Arts, even though it’s not just one martial art, and most of the people doing it are alive and not historical at all.
I also investigate something called “Destreza”, which is like regular fencing but with more maths and fewer friends. Along the way, I speak to experts who dress like medieval crash test dummies, try not to get stabbed, and explain why hitting someone with a metal stick is actually educational. It’s all very informative, or at least it tries to be.
Shownotes, Transkription und mehr unter https://www.schwertgefluester.de/funk-on-hema
Schwertgeflüster ist ein Podcast von Alexander Fürgut und Michael Sprenger. Alexander ist Trainer und Mitgründer der Schwabenfedern Ulm, Autor von Der Schielhau im Detail und ficht Langschwert und Rapier. Michael ist Trainer und Mitgründer vom Fencing Club Dresden und ficht vor allem Langschwert.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
History. It's like the past, but longer. Andwhile most people have moved on to modern sports,
like football, underwater rugby, or competitiveeating, some people insist on keeping history
alive in the most stupid way possible, by hittingeach other with swords they bought on the internet.
Have you ever wondered what sword fighting waslike 500 years ago? No? Neither have I. Welcome
(00:31):
to Funk on H-E-M-A. A podcast where I investigatethe ancient art of swinging metal sticks at
people while dressed like a medieval beekeeper.Right, so, the modern H-E-M-A scene. HEMA
stands for Historical European Martial Arts,which sounds like something knights used to
do, and they sort of did. Except now it's mostlypeople in fencing masks, whacking each other
(00:56):
with swords while pretending they're in Gameof Thrones. But they're not, because no one
gets stabbed in the stomach and then comes backfive seasons later. Kima's all about learning
old fighting techniques from books, which arebasically ancient instruction manuals. It's
like doing kung fu, but instead of a wise oldmaster, you've got someone squinting at a medieval
(01:17):
manuscript going, I think this bit says stabthem in the dick. To help me understand why
anyone does this, I spoke to two so-called experts.
Right, so, HEMA. It stands for Historical EuropeanMartial Arts, which is a fancy way of saying
(01:40):
fighting, but let's read a book first. Peoplewho do HEMA claim they're reviving long-lost
fighting techniques from ancient manuals. It'slike archeology, but instead of digging up
pottery, they dig up ways to get concussed.To explain more, I spoke to my first guest,
a real-life H-E-M-A instructor. So, I'm herewith... What's your name again? Michael. Just
(02:04):
Michael. No fancy knight name? No Sir Hitsalotor Lord of the Lumpy Forehead? No, just Michael.
Right. Michael, you're a HEMA instructor, whichmeans you teach people how to fight like it's
the 15th century. Is this like LARPing, butwith more lawsuits? No, not really. LARPing
is role play. HEMA is based on real historicaltechniques. We study actual fight manuals written
(02:31):
by fencing masters and wear protective equipment.LARPers fight with foam weapons and get to
yell magic spells at each other. Do you thinkHEMA fighters are jealous because their only
magic spell is screaming in death before gettingdouble hit? Or do you think HEMA people avoid
LARP because foam swords don't give you bruisesyou can brag about? LARP is a hobby in its
(02:53):
own right. But who needs magic when he canread original texts from fencing masters like
Johannes Lichtenauer in the 14th century, right? Lichtenhu? Sounds like a country that forgot
to exist. Lichtenauer. created and taught asystem of fighting in cryptic verses so only
(03:14):
his students could understand it. Oh, so Hemais basically trying to solve medieval riddles
while getting hit with a stick. It's like escaperooms, but without the safety briefing. It's
actually a very effective system. Is it though?Because I've never seen a HEMA champion win
a UFC fight or even a pub brawl. Well, that'snot really the point. Yes. Yes, the point is
(03:39):
the pointy end of the sword. Everyone knowsthat. You know, my mate Paulus once tried to
write his own HEMA manual. He got as far asstep one, hit them before they hit you. and
then got stuck. He said it was because the restis self-explanatory. But I think it's because
he spent other people's money on the projectuntil they found out and hanged him for it
(04:01):
in Augsburg. Well, I'm sure Paulus was a great...Also, there is living history, which often
involves recreating peaceful parts of the past.Do you think HEMA practitioners would join
if someone promised them they could still swingswords while pretending to bake bread? No.
(04:32):
One thing you notice about HEMA people is thatthey all dress like stormtroopers who forgot
their helmets. To understand why they wrappedthemselves in this much padding, I spoke to
another instructor. I'm here with Alexander,so you're wearing a lot of gear, a big jacket,
padded gloves, a helmet that looks like it'sfor draining pasta. What's all that for? Well,
it's for protection. HEMA weapons are blunt,but it can still hit hard, so we need padding
(04:56):
to stay safe. So you're basically dressing uplike a medieval Michelin man because you don't
trust your own sport? It's a full contact martialart with tournaments at all. Safety is important.
You know my ex Sean once thought it to be romanticto propose to me during a HEMA tournament.
He planned to do it right after winning a match,but he ended up losing because he double hit
his opponent. He still proposed. But it's hardto take someone seriously when they're kneeling
(05:21):
in sweaty fencing gear while complaining aboutbad judging. I said no. Sorry. To hear that?
Right. And what happens if you don't wear allthis gear? You get hurt. Ah! So you've reinvented
jousting, but without the horses, the dignityor the chance of impressing a princess? I mean,
I would put it that way, but... I just did.So, HEMA, Historical European Martial Arts.
(05:46):
It's called historical, but people are stilldoing it. Isn't that just now? Well, it's
historical because we are reviving martial artsfrom old fencing manuals. Right, so you've
got all these fancy sword moves. What's yourfavourite? And does it have a really cool name?
Or is it something disappointing like DiagonalStrike? I like the Wrath Cut that's on now.
(06:08):
Oh, Wrath Cut. So it's not just a cut, butan emotional cut. Is the idea that you're slicing
their head and their self-esteem at the sametime? Well, not exactly. Were all the cuts
back then named after emotions? Or just theangry ones? Was there a mild annoyance cut?
A disappointed Dad Parry. Not really.
(06:38):
So we've established that HEMA is a sport wherepeople read old books, dress up like mattress
salesmen and hit each other with swords theyinsist are historically accurate. But the real
question is, why? No one alive today has everneeded to win a medieval sword fight. Not even
once. Not even by accident. So I asked my guestsone final question. What is the point of HEMA?
(07:01):
It's way of connecting with history throughphysical practice. Right? So it's history nerds
reenacting CrossFit. You need at least someathleticism to do the footwork. Now footwork.
In sport fencing, they look like they actuallyknow where their feet are going. In HEMA, people
just sort of stumble around like they're dodgingimaginary puddles. HEMA footwork is very dynamic.
(07:26):
Dynamic? So tripping over your own feet is tactical?Well, in a way... Is there an official strategy
where, if your footwork is bad... You just swingharder and hope no one notices. It's not official,
but yeah, that does happen. Do HEMA fighterssecretly envy sport fences for their fancy
(07:46):
footwork? Or do you just assume they'd tripif they ever picked up a real sword? I think
both groups respect each other's That's verydiplomatic. So yes, but you're not allowed
to say so. Why can't you say it? Who are youafraid of? Uhm... Yes? What I do Open up You
(08:11):
were at a tournament! Oh god, they me... Fuck...No, that can't be! I'm already in mid-30s!
So tournaments? I'm way too old I'm just thereal art! Fuck!
(08:34):
There you have it. In the world of HEMA, evenopinions are a full contact sport. Right, moving
on. Fencing. It's been around for centuries,evolving from actual combat into various refined
styles. Some like sport fencing focus on speedand agility. Others, like HEMA Longsword, focus
(08:55):
on, well, looking like you've been thrown intobattle with a wardrobe malfunction. But then
there's Distreza. the Spanish approach to swordfighting. Unlike other styles which rely on
brute force or frantic stabbing, Destreza isbuilt around mathematical precision, elegant
movement, and what I can only assume is a strongsense of superiority. Destreza fighters claim
(09:18):
they use science to win duels. It's all aboutangles, circles and footwork so precise that
it looks like someone mistook their geometryhomework for a battle plan. To explain all
of this, and hopefully not stab me in the process,I've brought in a real expert. A man whose
name may sound familiar.
Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killedmy fat... Alright, alright, we get it. You're
(09:44):
very dramatic. I am setting the tone. The tonefor what? A revenge novel? We're here to talk
about Spanish fencing, not audition for a telenovela,or discuss your unresolved family trauma. It
would be an excellent telenovela. Sure, butfor now, let's stick to the sword stuff. South
Destreza. It's known as the Spanish scienceof fencing. Unlike other styles, which seem
(10:09):
to be based on hitting the other guy beforehe hits you, Destreza uses angles, circles,
and what I assume is some sort of geometry basedblack magic to win fights. Tell me Inigo, did
someone just look at a Spirograph one day andthink, this could definitely kill someone?
Destreza is not just about circles and angles,it is a refined system based on principles
(10:33):
of movement, distance and control. It is themost scientific form of swordplay. Right, but
you do actually fight at some point, yes? Oris it all just standing around? Looking elegant
and drinking coffee? Of course we fight! Withprecision, with intelligence, with skill, we
do not swing wildly like barbarians! Well, that'sa relief. But let's talk about the move names.
(10:58):
You've got things like the right angle thrust.Do you think you'd win faster if you gave them
scarier names like Deathspin 50000? The namesdescribe the technique. The right angle thrust
is a precise maneuver that uses a 90 degreeredirection to... Yeah, yeah, but what if instead
of right angle thrust you called it El StaboSupremo? Would that intimidate people more?
(11:22):
Only fools are intimidated by words. Right,but aren't Destreza fighters also known for
looking incredibly stylish while fencing? Haveyou ever lost a match because you were too
busy looking fabulous to notice the other guyhitting you? Never! The way you stand. The
way you move. It is not just for show. It isstrategy. It is- So yes, but you won't admit
(11:45):
it. Now, do you ever look at sport fences andthink, bless them, they're trying. Or do you
save all your judgement for HEMA fighters whowouldn't know geometry if it smacked them in
the face? Sport fences are quick and disciplined,but they lack real combat application. And
many HEMA fighters, they move like drunken goats.Drunken goats. That's an official assessment,
(12:08):
is it? Yes, I have fought both. The goats weremore predictable. Good to know. Now, Destreza
is all about using angles to outwit opponents.So if your opponent is bad at maths, do you
automatically win? Not necessarily. I'll takeit. One last thing. Your footwork in Destreza
is supposed to form a circle. Do you think youcould win against someone just by making them
(12:32):
dizzy from spinning around so much? That wouldbe a graceful use of the artery. But could
you do it? Yes. Brilliant. Final question.Do you think anyone in history ever invented
a fencing style by accident? Or is Distrezathe only one that looks like someone spent
way too long drawing diagrams before pickingup a sword? There are many fencing styles,
(12:53):
but only one Distreza. It is the product ofcenturies of refinement, not accidents. Right.
Well, you've been incredibly helpful, Inigo.I hope you one day find the man who killed
your father.
So there you have it, HEMA. A sport where grownadults play sword fights and claim it's educational.
(13:16):
Will it help you in a real fight? No. Will itget you a job? Also no. But will it make you
feel cool while swinging a big stick around?Possibly if no one is watching. This has been
Funkon HEMA. And if you ever see a bunch ofpeople in a park hitting each other with swords,
don't panic. They're not dangerous. They'rejust really, really into footnotes.
(13:43):
should have done a podcast on golf. At leastthey don't wear mesh strainers.
History. It's like the past, but longer. Andwhile most people have moved on to modern sports,
like football, underwater rugby, or competitiveeating, some people insist on keeping history
alive in the most stupid way possible, by hittingeach other with swords they bought on the internet.
Have you ever wondered what sword fighting waslike 500 years ago? No? Neither have I. Welcome
(00:31):
to Funk on H-E-M-A. A podcast where I investigatethe ancient art of swinging metal sticks at
people while dressed like a medieval beekeeper.Right, so, the modern H-E-M-A scene. HEMA
stands for Historical European Martial Arts,which sounds like something knights used to
do, and they sort of did. Except now it's mostlypeople in fencing masks, whacking each other
(00:56):
with swords while pretending they're in Gameof Thrones. But they're not, because no one
gets stabbed in the stomach and then comes backfive seasons later. Kima's all about learning
old fighting techniques from books, which arebasically ancient instruction manuals. It's
like doing kung fu, but instead of a wise oldmaster, you've got someone squinting at a medieval
(01:17):
manuscript going, I think this bit says stabthem in the dick. To help me understand why
anyone does this, I spoke to two so-called experts.
Right, so, HEMA. It stands for Historical EuropeanMartial Arts, which is a fancy way of saying
(01:40):
fighting, but let's read a book first. Peoplewho do HEMA claim they're reviving long-lost
fighting techniques from ancient manuals. It'slike archeology, but instead of digging up
pottery, they dig up ways to get concussed.To explain more, I spoke to my first guest,
a real-life H-E-M-A instructor. So, I'm herewith... What's your name again? Michael. Just
(02:04):
Michael. No fancy knight name? No Sir Hitsalotor Lord of the Lumpy Forehead? No, just Michael.
Right. Michael, you're a HEMA instructor, whichmeans you teach people how to fight like it's
the 15th century. Is this like LARPing, butwith more lawsuits? No, not really. LARPing
is role play. HEMA is based on real historicaltechniques. We study actual fight manuals written
(02:31):
by fencing masters and wear protective equipment.LARPers fight with foam weapons and get to
yell magic spells at each other. Do you thinkHEMA fighters are jealous because their only
magic spell is screaming in death before gettingdouble hit? Or do you think HEMA people avoid
LARP because foam swords don't give you bruisesyou can brag about? LARP is a hobby in its
(02:53):
own right. But who needs magic when he canread original texts from fencing masters like
Johannes Lichtenauer in the 14th century, right? Lichtenhu? Sounds like a country that forgot
to exist. Lichtenauer. created and taught asystem of fighting in cryptic verses so only
(03:14):
his students could understand it. Oh, so Hemais basically trying to solve medieval riddles
while getting hit with a stick. It's like escaperooms, but without the safety briefing. It's
actually a very effective system. Is it though?Because I've never seen a HEMA champion win
a UFC fight or even a pub brawl. Well, that'snot really the point. Yes. Yes, the point is
(03:39):
the pointy end of the sword. Everyone knowsthat. You know, my mate Paulus once tried to
write his own HEMA manual. He got as far asstep one, hit them before they hit you. and
then got stuck. He said it was because the restis self-explanatory. But I think it's because
he spent other people's money on the projectuntil they found out and hanged him for it
(04:01):
in Augsburg. Well, I'm sure Paulus was a great...Also, there is living history, which often
involves recreating peaceful parts of the past.Do you think HEMA practitioners would join
if someone promised them they could still swingswords while pretending to bake bread? No.
(04:32):
One thing you notice about HEMA people is thatthey all dress like stormtroopers who forgot
their helmets. To understand why they wrappedthemselves in this much padding, I spoke to
another instructor. I'm here with Alexander,so you're wearing a lot of gear, a big jacket,
padded gloves, a helmet that looks like it'sfor draining pasta. What's all that for? Well,
it's for protection. HEMA weapons are blunt,but it can still hit hard, so we need padding
(04:56):
to stay safe. So you're basically dressing uplike a medieval Michelin man because you don't
trust your own sport? It's a full contact martialart with tournaments at all. Safety is important.
You know my ex Sean once thought it to be romanticto propose to me during a HEMA tournament.
He planned to do it right after winning a match,but he ended up losing because he double hit
his opponent. He still proposed. But it's hardto take someone seriously when they're kneeling
(05:21):
in sweaty fencing gear while complaining aboutbad judging. I said no. Sorry. To hear that?
Right. And what happens if you don't wear allthis gear? You get hurt. Ah! So you've reinvented
jousting, but without the horses, the dignityor the chance of impressing a princess? I mean,
I would put it that way, but... I just did.So, HEMA, Historical European Martial Arts.
(05:46):
It's called historical, but people are stilldoing it. Isn't that just now? Well, it's
historical because we are reviving martial artsfrom old fencing manuals. Right, so you've
got all these fancy sword moves. What's yourfavourite? And does it have a really cool name?
Or is it something disappointing like DiagonalStrike? I like the Wrath Cut that's on now.
(06:08):
Oh, Wrath Cut. So it's not just a cut, butan emotional cut. Is the idea that you're slicing
their head and their self-esteem at the sametime? Well, not exactly. Were all the cuts
back then named after emotions? Or just theangry ones? Was there a mild annoyance cut?
A disappointed Dad Parry. Not really.
(06:38):
So we've established that HEMA is a sport wherepeople read old books, dress up like mattress
salesmen and hit each other with swords theyinsist are historically accurate. But the real
question is, why? No one alive today has everneeded to win a medieval sword fight. Not even
once. Not even by accident. So I asked my guestsone final question. What is the point of HEMA?
(07:01):
It's way of connecting with history throughphysical practice. Right? So it's history nerds
reenacting CrossFit. You need at least someathleticism to do the footwork. Now footwork.
In sport fencing, they look like they actuallyknow where their feet are going. In HEMA, people
just sort of stumble around like they're dodgingimaginary puddles. HEMA footwork is very dynamic.
(07:26):
Dynamic? So tripping over your own feet is tactical?Well, in a way... Is there an official strategy
where, if your footwork is bad... You just swingharder and hope no one notices. It's not official,
but yeah, that does happen. Do HEMA fighterssecretly envy sport fences for their fancy
(07:46):
footwork? Or do you just assume they'd tripif they ever picked up a real sword? I think
both groups respect each other's That's verydiplomatic. So yes, but you're not allowed
to say so. Why can't you say it? Who are youafraid of? Uhm... Yes? What I do Open up You
(08:11):
were at a tournament! Oh god, they me... Fuck...No, that can't be! I'm already in mid-30s!
So tournaments? I'm way too old I'm just thereal art! Fuck!
(08:34):
There you have it. In the world of HEMA, evenopinions are a full contact sport. Right, moving
on. Fencing. It's been around for centuries,evolving from actual combat into various refined
styles. Some like sport fencing focus on speedand agility. Others, like HEMA Longsword, focus
(08:55):
on, well, looking like you've been thrown intobattle with a wardrobe malfunction. But then
there's Distreza. the Spanish approach to swordfighting. Unlike other styles which rely on
brute force or frantic stabbing, Destreza isbuilt around mathematical precision, elegant
movement, and what I can only assume is a strongsense of superiority. Destreza fighters claim
(09:18):
they use science to win duels. It's all aboutangles, circles and footwork so precise that
it looks like someone mistook their geometryhomework for a battle plan. To explain all
of this, and hopefully not stab me in the process,I've brought in a real expert. A man whose
name may sound familiar.
Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killedmy fat... Alright, alright, we get it. You're
(09:44):
very dramatic. I am setting the tone. The tonefor what? A revenge novel? We're here to talk
about Spanish fencing, not audition for a telenovela,or discuss your unresolved family trauma. It
would be an excellent telenovela. Sure, butfor now, let's stick to the sword stuff. South
Destreza. It's known as the Spanish scienceof fencing. Unlike other styles, which seem
(10:09):
to be based on hitting the other guy beforehe hits you, Destreza uses angles, circles,
and what I assume is some sort of geometry basedblack magic to win fights. Tell me Inigo, did
someone just look at a Spirograph one day andthink, this could definitely kill someone?
Destreza is not just about circles and angles,it is a refined system based on principles
(10:33):
of movement, distance and control. It is themost scientific form of swordplay. Right, but
you do actually fight at some point, yes? Oris it all just standing around? Looking elegant
and drinking coffee? Of course we fight! Withprecision, with intelligence, with skill, we
do not swing wildly like barbarians! Well, that'sa relief. But let's talk about the move names.
(10:58):
You've got things like the right angle thrust.Do you think you'd win faster if you gave them
scarier names like Deathspin 50000? The namesdescribe the technique. The right angle thrust
is a precise maneuver that uses a 90 degreeredirection to... Yeah, yeah, but what if instead
of right angle thrust you called it El StaboSupremo? Would that intimidate people more?
(11:22):
Only fools are intimidated by words. Right,but aren't Destreza fighters also known for
looking incredibly stylish while fencing? Haveyou ever lost a match because you were too
busy looking fabulous to notice the other guyhitting you? Never! The way you stand. The
way you move. It is not just for show. It isstrategy. It is- So yes, but you won't admit
(11:45):
it. Now, do you ever look at sport fences andthink, bless them, they're trying. Or do you
save all your judgement for HEMA fighters whowouldn't know geometry if it smacked them in
the face? Sport fences are quick and disciplined,but they lack real combat application. And
many HEMA fighters, they move like drunken goats.Drunken goats. That's an official assessment,
(12:08):
is it? Yes, I have fought both. The goats weremore predictable. Good to know. Now, Destreza
is all about using angles to outwit opponents.So if your opponent is bad at maths, do you
automatically win? Not necessarily. I'll takeit. One last thing. Your footwork in Destreza
is supposed to form a circle. Do you think youcould win against someone just by making them
(12:32):
dizzy from spinning around so much? That wouldbe a graceful use of the artery. But could
you do it? Yes. Brilliant. Final question.Do you think anyone in history ever invented
a fencing style by accident? Or is Distrezathe only one that looks like someone spent
way too long drawing diagrams before pickingup a sword? There are many fencing styles,
(12:53):
but only one Distreza. It is the product ofcenturies of refinement, not accidents. Right.
Well, you've been incredibly helpful, Inigo.I hope you one day find the man who killed
your father.
So there you have it, HEMA. A sport where grownadults play sword fights and claim it's educational.
(13:16):
Will it help you in a real fight? No. Will itget you a job? Also no. But will it make you
feel cool while swinging a big stick around?Possibly if no one is watching. This has been
Funkon HEMA. And if you ever see a bunch ofpeople in a park hitting each other with swords,
don't panic. They're not dangerous. They'rejust really, really into footnotes.
(13:43):
should have done a podcast on golf. At leastthey don't wear mesh strainers.
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